On this episode Chad delves into finding topics for the show, creative spaces, seeing people you have tension with, Draymond Green making Steph Curry cry, and March Madness standout Caitlin Clark.
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Executive Produced by: Chad Sanders
Produced by: Morgan Williams
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, this is Nothing but Anarchy.
Welcome to Nothing but Anarchy.
Episode number looking at thedocket 97.
That's crazy.
(00:20):
We're going to come up onepisode 100.
I bet right around the time ofone year of the show, maybe,
maybe.
Mortgagron is here, we are indifferent rooms, we are.
I'm in my house, she is in anunknown location and we're doing
the show via Riverside.
(00:40):
I think, possibly, that we willbe doing more of the show via
Riverside, so let's figure outhow to make it work.
My friend, justin G, chatted methis morning.
He says random thought but haveyou found that there's more
stuff to talk about in 2024 thanthere was in 2023?
(01:01):
Which I thought was aninteresting question because I
had not considered that.
My experience with time andsubject matter right now is just
that there is as much to talkabout as we can possibly fill
(01:22):
space with.
Which is said differently islike I don't know that there are
ever.
Let's just take modern historyLike in the last 10 years,
people have said a lot.
People say a lot of things likethings have never been this bad,
or I can't believe all thethings that are going on right
now, in this time, and thosesorts of comments that are meant
(01:47):
to say like this is the mostfraught time or even just this
is the most eventful time inhistory, those like sometimes,
when people say things like that, they just wash over and that's
not what I think my friendJustin was saying.
I think he was literally justsaying this year seems more
packed already with stuff thanthe previous year and, to be
(02:08):
honest, like 2020 did feel likea special year in a lot of ways,
with, obviously, covid, kobeBryant died and then the summer
of, you know, racial tumult andunrest and George Floyd and all
the things.
But like, generally speakingnow, with the way that media is
(02:29):
set up, I mean let's just talkabout this particular show, the
job that I have coming into thisshow.
The reason why Justin evenasked the question is because,
whether or not anythinginteresting has happened, I have
to manufacture interestingnessout of whatever has happened.
So I woke up this morningthinking I looked at my text
(02:52):
story with Morgan and we didn'thave very much in it and I was
like I wonder what we can findthat is interesting to talk
about here.
And we have to.
We as the creatives.
I guess we, as like the writershere, have to make something
interesting out of whateverexists, and I think that is the
case for the larger mediaindustrial complex that we have
(03:15):
right now, which is to say,there are people who are, who
have a financial incentive, aneconomic incentive, a job
incentive, as we do, whose jobit is, all over the country, all
over the world, to makesomething interesting out of
whatever is happening, even ifwhat is happening is
(03:36):
inconsequential.
And so, in that way, I cannotsay definitively that there is
more going on right now thanthere was last year or the year
before that, the year beforethat, because we've been in this
sort of media industrialcomplex for probably I'm going
to say the last like 10 years,but we're really, really, really
(03:57):
, really, really in it right now.
So, with that said, here'swhat's on the docket.
Here are some really important,interesting things that we're
going to talk about today.
And don't get me wrong, once Ihave coffee, I have a lot to say
about everything.
Everything is in its own.
I had this kind of back andforth argument I don't know what
(04:18):
to call it with a friend yearsago, where I'm like this is a
core belief of mine.
I think every single person hasan interesting story to tell.
I think every single person isinteresting.
I think every single person hasbeen through something.
Every single person has a dream.
Every single person has a pointof view that is unusual or
(04:40):
unique to them.
I think every single personmight have something to say if
they only just look at whatthey're experiencing and what
they're thinking about with acertain lens on it, and he felt
differently.
He felt like no, some peopleare just dull, some people are
just boring.
Some people live dull, boringlives and then they die.
And I guess that mirrors whatI'm saying about this time that
(05:05):
we're in, which is like any timecan be interesting if you are
willing to open yourself up tolook at it with a certain lens,
just like any person cansimilarly be interesting if
you're open to look at it with acertain lens.
This is what we're looking attoday, with a certain lens.
It appeared that DraymondGreen's tactics last night made
Steph Curry cry, which I thoughtwas interesting.
(05:29):
Kaitlyn Clark, who is probablythe biggest star in college
basketball men's or women'sright now she plays for Iowa.
She's like a swing woman, Iguess, like a shooting guard
three, but she also plays somepoint.
She is likely to be the numberone pick in the NBA draft, the
big three, which is Ice Cube'sthree-on-three league, which is
(05:52):
like Ice Cube's kind of startupleague that he means to take a
little bit of market share ofthe basketball viewing
viewership.
Ice Cube wants to offer, or mayhave already offered, kaitlyn
clark five million dollars tocome play for the big three.
She's likely to make around ahundred thousand dollars or
something like that playing inthe wmba next year not, not not
(06:14):
including sponsors, sponsorshipsand brand deals and all kinds
of other money she'll make offthe court.
But whatever, um, I guess we gotto talk about diddy.
Um, there's a, there's achapter in my new book titled.
I guess we should talk aboutkanye.
Uh, my book is about sellingout, and there are some things
where I literally forgot to talkabout diddy the other day
(06:38):
because, like, there are somestories that are so big and so
right down the like the middleof media that reach everybody
they're almost so mucheverywhere that they're nowhere,
and this is one of thosestories where I was just like I
forgot.
I don't think we even talkedabout putting it on the docket.
I can't remember, though.
Maybe we did.
No, we didn't, we didn't.
(07:00):
But first, before we get intoany of that stuff.
I'm going to talk about anexperience that I had on Tuesday
night, hit by a deluge ofresponsibilities, things I had
(07:31):
to get moving on.
Such is life right now.
This is like an interestingmoment in my adulthood, in my
career, where everything to someextent has to run like my.
My fingerprints are oneverything.
If something's going to getdone, I have to sort of push it
to get done.
And that doesn't mean like mespecifically, necessarily like
(07:54):
Morgan does a lot of pushing.
There's a couple other peoplewho do a lot of pushing, but
like it's sort of it's my teamand me and my team used to mean
actually a bunch of people who,as I came to realize, were not
my team.
I was like a client of theirsthat was one of a zillion
clients and one of the leastimportant among them, unless I
(08:17):
had a deal that was right on theprecipice of getting done.
And we have sort of moved thepower center back over to be a
little more centralized aroundme, which means that if things
need to get done, I have to makethem get done.
And when your car battery isdone, when you get off a flight,
when your car battery is dead.
That makes everything takelonger.
But one of the things that Iwas excited to do on Tuesday was
(08:45):
I went to a poets and writersgala with my sister that my
sister invited me to.
I'm going to talk about why itis cool to have siblings.
I have only one, which is myolder sister.
She, as many of you all know,debuted her first published
(09:06):
full-length work called Company,a collection of short stories
that she wrote about thedynamics of families is how I
would describe it thecomplicated dynamics of families
.
And my sister and I are close.
My sister and I talk almostevery single day.
My sister listens to everyepisode of this show, sometimes
(09:29):
multiple times, often multipletimes.
My three-year-old nephews, whoare twins who can talk, but
obviously they just turned threeso they still speak in their
own sort of language.
They know the sound of my voicefrom this podcast so well, from
my sister listening to it inthe car, that one of them will
(09:49):
sometimes ask to listen to UncleChad's podcast.
And my sister took me as herplus one to Chelsea Pier, which
is all the way on the west side,next to the water, all the way
further than West Side Highway.
It's literally touching water.
She took me to this gala and itwas fancy.
It was fancy people I shouldn'tsay fancy people, it was people
(10:11):
behaving fancily as you knowthem to do right.
So I my sister, told me weeksago she said where you can wear
something cool and artsy, and Ifinally got a chance to wear the
suit that I wore on the coverof my direct deposit key art a
couple of years ago, which islike a floral patterned purplish
(10:37):
, violet-ish suit that has likea tie around belt situation.
It's like a fabric belt thatyou tie around instead of
buttoning the suit together Ifyou want to, or if you're me and
you gained five to 10 pounds inyour lower half over the last
two years, you do that becauseyou don't want to accidentally
(11:01):
bust the suit open when you,when you try to button the
buttons.
And I spent from the time I putthe suit on until the end of
the night.
I spent the entire night havingto be thoughtful about how I
bent my body so that I didn'tbust the pants open of the suit,
or how I crossed the legs orwhatever, because that could
(11:22):
have happened.
But I go to the thing.
My sister and I meet there andit is a room of, I would say,
200 or so I'm going to use theterm Is power players, the right
(11:46):
word Like 200 or so people whoare actually sort of firmly in
the publishing business, whichmeans authors, editors,
publishers, agents and some,like you know, corporate folks.
(12:06):
Like I was sitting next to awoman named Liz who works in the
audio books and podcastingdepartment at Apple.
She was in her fifties and or Ithink she told me she was 50
exactly and she's been workingin publishing for like 28 years
is how she put it.
So she knew everybody in theroom and Roxane Gay was there,
(12:29):
which was a very fanny fanmoment for me.
It was one of the reasons why Iwas very excited, besides just
getting to go and have a nightand hang out with my sister
without our families, withouther kids, which is extremely
rare in our adult life now, likeI was also very excited to get
to be a fan boy for someone whoI look up to in a part of my
(12:51):
work.
That I think is honestly, ifI'm being real, is most
legitimate.
Like I have read two of RoxaneGay's books Hunger and Bad
Feminist and the subject matteris compelling.
Her tone is compelling.
But what I really love aboutRoxane Gay is like this is
(13:14):
something that I also foundcompelling in Stephen King's
book on writing You're justwriting.
I think people get caught up inthe language of it all.
It's very easy.
People get caught up in thelanguage of it all.
It's very easy to get caught upin the language of it all.
It's very easy to remember, oh,that one thing that you read
where someone turned a phrase soartfully and so poetically and
(13:37):
it really like lasted and stayedwith you and it felt, like,
felt like you had eatensomething delicious and it went
down so smooth and cute andwhatever.
And if you look on Instagram oron Twitter or on TikTok,
everybody's trying to like saysomething so artistically and so
with such, you know, with somany adverbs and lies and
(14:01):
whatnot and like and all theseextra words that fill up space
and don't actually add anythingto the sentence, because they're
not actually trying to like saysomething.
Necessarily, they're trying tomake a pretty picture that
people will share and that will,you know, have virality.
But writing, when it's done welland meaningfully and
(14:24):
effectively, is supposed to.
It's not supposed to be aboutthe words.
The words are accoutrement.
The words are window dressing.
It's supposed to be about whatyou're saying.
Like are you saying somethingthat is a lasting idea for
someone that they can digest andput into their own like, build
(14:44):
into their own cycles, their ownethos?
I'll say that all reallyplainly how Stephen King says.
It is like whatever languageyou have, whatever lexicon you
have, however many words youhave, use those, but just say
what you're saying.
And that's what I love aboutRoxane Gay is like her writing
(15:05):
says what it's saying, so youdon't have to spend time in your
head like interpreting oh, didI get that right?
Did I read that right?
Et cetera.
Now my sister and I my sistervery much hosted.
She was a host for this thing,she was a host for this event.
It was her event among otherpeople.
It was fancy, the table was,the tables were all nice and had
(15:29):
nice cloths and nice food andchampagne and desserts and all
kinds of stuff first, and sheknew that I wanted to meet her.
And I never do this Like if Isaw, I don't know, I never, I
never.
People say this all the time,but I never do the thing If I
(15:51):
see somebody out who I admire oreven who I just have known
about for a long time.
It's really difficult for me toget the bravery or the
confidence to go over to thatperson or the brazenness to go
over to that person andintroduce myself, unless I'm in
a place of urgency and I needsomething from that person,
(16:12):
which is what I did for SpikeLee, many, many, many, many, but
like eight years ago when Ifirst met him.
But my sister spots Rockton Gayseven years ago.
So this is Rockton Gay.
She comes back over to thetable and she says, hey, she's
sitting over there and we have.
This is like the sibling partof it.
We, we, we go over there,she'll know the side of the room
(16:33):
, sitting quietly, eating andjust being frank about it all.
Roxane Gay has written andspoken openly, speaks openly
about her own issues with herweight and with food, and so me
and my sister, as siblings, sortof tiptoeing in her direction
(16:54):
around this room full of, let'sbe honest, mostly, you know,
rich white folks, like we'retiptoeing around this room to
get to someone that I think is ahero, which is Roxane Gay, and
she is a, as a, you know, she'sa self-described fat black woman
(17:14):
who has some stuff with hereating.
And so we stand there and wewatch her eat for about 20
seconds, while my sister and Icontemplate okay, who's going to
be the one to go over and speak?
Who's going to?
How is it going to be done?
Should we give her space?
What if she's not feeling it?
What if she doesn't really wantto talk to us right now,
(17:34):
whatever?
And then we go back to ourseats without saying a word to
her.
The night proceeds.
People give speeches.
Roxane Gay gives a great speech.
People give speeches.
Roxane Gay gives a great speech.
People talk about how importantit is for there to be writers
right now and for there to bepublishing right now, because
people are literally burningbooks and when they burn books,
they will also burn bodies, etcetera, et cetera.
It's pretty heavy.
(17:55):
The speeches are.
There's a lot of fundraisinggoing on.
I think $60,000 were raised inthe room.
Over a million dollars wereraised for that event altogether
, and afterwards now we got togo back over and meet Roxane Gay
and we tiptoe our way back overthere.
We finally speak to her.
My sister, I think, is the onewho said hello to her first, and
(18:19):
you know, my sister and I arein our 30s, like my sister's.
A lawyer I'm me and like we'renot like you know, we're not
some little like tiny Tim headass niggas.
We're not like, oh my gosh,like it's such an honor to meet
you.
But that's exactly who we werewhen we started talking to
(18:40):
Rakten Gay and she could nothave been she herself almost I
don't want to say like childlike, because that's probably has
the wrong connotation but shewas so earnest and warm and had
such a humility that I was notexpecting.
I almost thought there was achance she was going to want to
(19:00):
flick me specifically away likea bug.
When we came over to her andshe could not have been more
like um, inviting and and andalmost like wanting to see us
there, especially my sister forit for real, for real, like
based on the eye contact and thebody, posturing and etc.
Etc.
Like she was happy to see mysister there and that that was
(19:22):
very nice.
So, anyway, that was our nighton Tuesday.
After that, me and my sister Iwant to say this this is what I
want to say actually One is Iwould be lying if not to say so
me and my sister both gotrecognized a few times in this
place by different people.
It's really cool to be like awriter duo, as bro and sister.
(19:47):
Like me and my sister went tothe same colleges at the same
time.
I followed my sister's paththrough elementary school,
middle school and not highschool.
She went to a different highschool.
We went to piano lessons at thesame place, went to church at
the same place, like there was alot of our lives where we there
(20:08):
was a connection, that is, weare shannon and chad, like that.
That was a thing for where wegrew up and people knew us as
two kids that were smart andcreative.
Like that was the vibe.
They were like those two kids.
They not necessarily that theydo great in school, because at
different times I think each ofus didn't do great in school
(20:30):
full of, you know, fancyschmancy, wanting to be people.
(20:50):
I felt like I felt more centered, I felt more safe.
I felt like there was someonein that room who was going to
know if I was having a badexperience and was going to know
how to read my face or my toneor my fake laugh and help me and
vice versa.
And on top of that, I thinkthere's a chance, I think
(21:12):
there's a likelihood that asboth of our imprints grow here,
that more and more people willcome to know us as a duo, know
us as a duo, and I think there'spower, there's real power in
(21:33):
that for a duo of sibling Blackauthors.
There were a bunch of folks inthat room and I would have to
guess that less than 5% of theauthors who were in the room
were Black authors.
Maybe I don't know, who knows.
There was one more thing Iwanted to say, which is this I
needed to be in a room of bookpeople.
(21:55):
I have been.
I have had my head, very my headand my money deeply invested in
marketing lately, and marketingis synonymous right now with
social media.
Marketing is synonymous withpaid advertising, digital
(22:19):
advertising.
It's like it can make your headgo beep, boop, beep.
It can definitely turn you intoa little bit of a of a robot
and as a part of that, I thinkit can detach you from the art
itself.
Like so much concern with themarketing is storytelling.
(22:41):
So like the storytelling aroundthe storytelling, like actual
storytelling, is your book, yourTV series, your podcast
sometimes, depending on how youdo it.
But the storytelling aroundthat storytelling can start to
make me feel more and more andmore distant from the actual
product, like from the actualthing that you give to people.
(23:02):
And it was nice to be aroundpeople again who, who or I
shouldn't even say again,because when I published my book
it was 2021.
Like there was.
There were no live events likethis for me to go to with my
first book.
It has been.
It has been nice and I'mincluding the Chanel event in
this.
It's been nice to get back infront of warm bodies of human
(23:23):
beings that read, that careabout words on a page, that care
about ideas sharing, that careabout something that is not just
like what is getting the mostclicks and the most shares and
the best clicks per dollar spentto your profile.
People who actually give a shitabout the art.
(23:46):
I needed to absorb that and Ineeded I needed to I'll be
honest like I needed to feelseen for what I can do
creatively and not just for,like, what I can do with my face
and image on these apps.
So that was a blast and thankyou, shannon, for taking me to
(24:07):
that.
I really, really, really,really needed that and it was so
fun.
I'm going to give words to thisbecause this is not a backtrack.
This is going to dovetail intoour next segment, which is about
Steph Curry and Draymond Green.
I'm going to tell you, guys,something that happens to me.
Morgan, you can tell me if thishappens to everybody.
Sometimes I feel like Chad,this is a you thing because you
have so many feelings, butsometimes I'm like, no, I think
(24:29):
everybody goes through this.
So, morgan, would you say it issafe to say that you know how I
feel about you.
When I feel it, yes, yes, Iwould say like 80, 80%, okay,
80%, that seems high-ish.
Well, let me say what I meanhere.
(24:52):
Let me be like Rox again.
Just say what I'm fuckingsaying.
I am going to lean more Overtime.
That's already happening.
I'm feeling it happen.
I am going to lean more intothe game of all of this.
I am going to lean more intothe quorum because I consider
(25:12):
those to be a part of marketing.
I did my, I came in, I did mypush as, like you know,
independent, singular I'm notgoing to be fake authentic
(25:33):
artist.
And it has been super cute,it's been so cute.
Good job, chad.
You did it.
You know you even sort offormed a reputation for yourself
as such and, along the way,like you punted and passed on
some relationships with peoplethat possibly could have been
helpful to you, good for you.
You protected your yourself orsomething Like yourself, and by
(25:55):
that I mean like your actualself, like your identity.
You didn't stretch so far in away that you couldn't get
yourself back.
The next one month, the next 10months, are about selling.
The next 10 months are aboutmaking sure that my profile
(26:18):
grows and that the word gets outabout this book that I have
coming out and a couple otherthings, and with this audience,
this one right here I am goingto be straightforward about
everything.
As I have been to this point,or as I meant to be right, I'm
going to try to keep up thatsame dynamic as well with my
(26:43):
Instagram following, which iswhere a large part of my
audience sits.
The breadth of my audience sits, the breadth of my audience
sits there.
That's how I communicate,that's my walkie talkie to the
people.
All bets are off In every otherenvironment Because, fuck it.
Like this is what.
(27:04):
This is how the game is played.
I need to do what's best fornot even just me at this point,
but like for the center core oflike this, this team of what's
happening, and that means I'mgoing to give you an example of
what that means.
(27:24):
So at the event that I was at onTuesday, I saw somebody who
gave me a weird vibe a coupleyears ago when I was making a
decision about something.
They wanted to work with me.
I did not want to work withthem, and not for any personal
reasons other than just like I.
(27:45):
Just that was just not mychoice, that was just not what I
wanted and I my one regret inall of this is that I didn't
circle back around to thisperson to tell them that I
didn't want to work with them.
I wanted to work with someoneelse.
And why?
And I think I have left someloose ends in that way
(28:06):
throughout my time in all ofthese businesses because, one,
things are moving extremely fastand it's really hard to make it
back to circle closest to.
I try to always give honesty,like I try to always like.
(28:31):
So every single loose end oh,there was this little
conversation that ended weirdhere.
Let's pick it back up and let'sfinish it, like always, always
with other people, my voicecracked.
Things are moving so fast.
It's really hard to do that.
But I'm also going to addsometimes it is just a weight.
It just costs emotional energyto go back to someone and
(28:54):
disappoint them.
Go back to someone andface-to-face tell them thank you
but no thank you.
That is hard to do I'm gettingbetter at it but it's really
hard to tell somebody no, thankyou.
Saw the person and this happensto me a lot.
(29:15):
It's happened at a weddingrecently.
This this is this is thishappens when you, when you won't
just eat shit all the time andbe phony, there's a cost to that
.
Like eating shit and beingphony, I'm starting to realize
is underrated because there is acost to that.
When you are a little bit too,when you're a little, when you
look people a little too real inthe, in the face, like when
(29:37):
you're a little bit too straightwith your feelings, like when
you're a little bit too easy toread, there's a cost to that.
This is the cost.
You end up seeing peopleoutside in the places, in the,
in the venues, in the spots, andthey are swirling around quite
easily doing the show like doingthe game, doing the performance
(30:01):
, because that is their decorum,like that is their way of, that
is their decorum, like that istheir way of, that is their
modus operandi.
I think that's the right word.
But if you're sitting there andbeing like I'm going to be
authentic with my feelings, likeI'm not going to be fake
whatever, whatever, like you'restuck.
Like you're stuck because ifthe two of you do happen to have
(30:23):
an interaction, or if you dohave, if there's a way that
you're not going to avoid eachother, you have to address it.
And so here's what's come upfor me in that regard recently,
and this is kind of how it islike this is how I'm sometimes.
I'm like I'm like penny.
Penny's my dog.
This is how I'm like penny.
Sometimes, if there's somethingin the, it's like a magnet for
(30:47):
me, like once I see that theperson's there, I am like an
owning missile on them, likeeverything now centers around.
I am going to have to have aconfrontation with this person.
Not like we're not going tofight.
You know what I mean.
Not like we're going to have anargument, but like there is an
elephant in the room must beaddressed.
(31:08):
I don't know why it's that way.
I actually think it's because Ithink it's because I grew up in
a family dynamic where we didnot always address the thing,
and so sometimes the thing wouldbe in the room and it would be
unaddressed for the sake ofkeeping the peace quote-unquote
peace.
But I oftentimes feel like Igotta go say something.
(31:33):
I I gotta go like I don't wantto avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid.
So one of my friends asked melast night on face.
I was on face time with a fewof my friends and he said um, he
said you know, if you're Waleor Cuddy or whoever and Diddy
has caused some serious harm toyou or threat of harm to you,
(31:54):
like dangling you over the sideof a balcony, you have to.
There's only two ways you cango from there because you're
going to keep seeing Diddy again, because you work in Diddy's
industry.
So either you can try to avoidDiddy for the rest of time,
which seems to me impossible itseems very difficult to avoid
(32:14):
someone into perpetuity who hasa private jet Because they can
go anywhere.
They can go anywhere that yougo, they have a private jet or
the very next time you see thatperson you've got go, say what's
up, you got to.
You have to like, and this iswhy I say I'm like Penny in this
regard.
Penny is only going to go saywhat's up.
(32:35):
Me and my friend Leon laugh,because people in our industry
Hollywood, I'm now calling ourindustry they will do and say
weird things to you or they willalmost challenge you, like they
will say, well, you know, thisthing happened, blah, blah, blah
.
Call me, text me, blah.
(32:57):
And they and they and they kindof don't expect you to do it
because, like intimidation is aform of action that swirls
around Hollywood.
Intimidation like I'm this bigperson, I got this power, like I
move things around how I wantthem, how I want to.
Like intimidation is sort of apart of how people make things
(33:20):
happen in Hollywood.
But they don't expect you toactually go see, they don't
expect you to actually go see,they don't expect you to
actually give them that phonecall, they don't expect you to
actually text and just say, hey,what's going on?
So well, here's the irony ofthis entire spiel, which is that
(33:40):
this person walked right pastme.
He cut kind of cut through likea few tables and walked, slam
past me and I have.
No, I didn't see it coming.
He came from behind, so Ididn't know if that was like to
just let me know that he wasthere or whatever, whatever, and
like to be frank with you and I.
(34:01):
It was gone by the time ithappened.
It was gone.
I saw it was looking at theback of this person and I never
went to go say what's up to thisguy.
I instead decided to like tryto enjoy this night and did very
much so.
And like it wasn't about any ofthat, it was about like hanging
out with my sister.
It was about meeting one of myheroes.
It was about like soaking inthe bookishness of this place
(34:24):
and being with other artists.
But I thought about it a lotbecause that's new for me.
(34:46):
That's something I am going tobe working on for the for the
near future is being real withmy team and with the audience,
and being as fake as I need tobe with everybody else.
Morgan, do you think this is agood plan?
I think it is.
I also think you don't need tobe fake.
I don't know.
I feel like people mightsurprise you so that you don't
(35:09):
have to be fake.
Like I feel like going into itknowing that you're going to be
fake feels like you're settingyourself up for something and
then also expressing thatpublicly.
Yeah, okay, I'm being facetious.
Obviously, I'm being a littlebit facetious, like I'm not
going to walk around acting like, but what I am going to do is
(35:29):
like I am going to be nimble,I'm going to be agile, I'm going
to be a little bit more, alittle bit more kumbaya like, a
little bit more.
Like you know, this thinghappened.
It miffed me.
I don't need to hold on to itand I don't and, honestly, I
(35:53):
don't even necessarily need toaddress it, unless it's so
meaningful and it's going tohave a real impact on my life.
Like I, everything doesn't haveto be something.
That's the thing that I'm,that's the thing that I'm going
to be walking about with.
I'm not actually going to befake.
All right enough, let's talkabout somebody who was not fake
last night.
Draymond Green did some shitlast night.
(36:16):
So the Warrior.
There's an exciting thinghappening that's swelling in the
NBA, which is that there arenow only 11 teams in each
conference whose season remainsalive, which is to say that they
are eligible for the playoffsand or the play-in.
And in the Western Conference,especially, the fight for the
(36:40):
10th seed, which is the lastplay-in spot, is very, very
close.
The Rockets trail the Warriorsby one game and those two teams
are going to play each othersometime in the next two weeks.
There's two weeks of the seasonleft, so every single game
matters.
The Rockets are on a 10-gamewin streak.
(37:01):
I love the Rockets.
I love everything about theRockets.
I love their coach, aimee Odoka.
I love their stars Jalen Green,alperin Shingun.
I love their young guys AminThompson, cam Whitmore I'm
forgetting people.
Oh, ja'shaun Tate Like they'rejust.
Jabari Smith is kind of eh, butlike eh.
(37:23):
You know, everybody can't beawesome.
I like, I really like theRockets and what I oh.
I love Dylan Brooks.
We've talked about this.
Fairground lead is kind of eh,but he's serviceable for what
they need right now.
What I love most about them isthat they didn't quit on their
season when they were sevengames under 500.
They are now three games above500 with eight games left, and
(37:44):
they're right behind theWarriors for that 10th seed.
I would much rather watch theRockets face off against LeBron
and the Lakers in the 10-9 gamethan to watch the Warriors do it
.
I just think the Warriors arecooked.
I think they're mentallyexhausted.
I think this run of the lastdecade for them decade plus at
(38:06):
this point of playing deep intothe playoffs almost every single
year and also, frankly, justlike outkicking their coverage
as a team.
I think they're exhausted.
They don't have top five picksin their pedigree.
Steph's their highest pickedstar.
He was a seventh pick.
Klay Thompson, I believe, wasthe 11th overall pick, maybe
(38:27):
12th, maybe 10th, I can'tremember.
Draymond Green is a secondrounder.
These guys have squeezed allthe juice out of what they have
and it looks like there's not alot of juice left, more talent
left.
He has more ability to produceleft, but it really is looking
(38:48):
like mentally they are fried.
This is what it looks like tobe fried mentally.
Draymond Green, who we havediscussed on this show and who's
been discussed in the publicconversation ad nauseum.
He is Having a meltdown.
He's already been suspended.
(39:09):
I think he missed 12 gamesearlier this year for whatever
it was that you want to callthat he did to Yusuf Nurkic and
choking out Rudy Gobert, andjust a lifetime achievement
award for all the like I don'teven know what to call them, I
guess violent, semi-violentthings that he's done on
basketball courts.
(39:34):
And I've said this before, likeI am not against the bulldozing
slightly dirty, attackingbodyguard basketball player, I
think every team needs at leastone or two of those guys and I
(39:56):
think it helps if the guy whoyou have doing that on your team
is your big man, which is whatDraymond Green has in essence
been for the Warriors for thelast decade.
He is their center.
Kevon Looney is right now outof the rotation, like he'll come
back for certain matchups, butDraymond is their center.
Like you want your center to bethe bully on your team you want
(40:20):
?
I actually like thinking back onmy own experiences playing ball
, especially in like middleschool, high, high school, you
know AAU even just like runningaround playing pickup, like even
now as an, as a fucking oldtimer at the run like man.
Do I hate when me or somebodyelse who is not a big man is
(40:45):
like the most aggressive personon the team man?
Do I hate it when the actualtall big guy out there it wants
to like float around and nothave too much contact?
It changes the dynamic ofeverything.
So anyway, I've over-talkedthis, but like I don't care that
Draymond Green gets a littledirty.
I think that's part of the gameand I think that's what winning
teams often have as a reminderto you all.
(41:08):
Nikola Jokic is dirty.
Okay, nikola Jokic ran up andshoulder slammed into the back
of Markeith Morris a coupleyears ago and left him out for
the season, and Markeith Morrishas not really been like a
rotation NBA player since thathappened.
Okay, so you're going to bethree-time MVP, nba champion.
(41:31):
Nikola Jokic is that player forthe Denver Nuggets.
If anybody's ever wondering, dothey have that guy Like it's
him.
He's the dirty guy.
Every team needs somebody likethat and Draymond's that guy.
What you don't need and thisleads to what happened last
night is you don't need anyoneon your team, including that
(41:57):
person, also having thesemoments of emotional lapse where
they are now putting yourseason at risk.
Draymond Green last night in amust-win game because every game
is a must-win game from now tothe end of the season for the
(42:17):
Warriors got himself ejected inthe first four minutes of the
game and it wasn't, you know,any sort of active aggression or
like a tiff with another player.
There was no standoff, nobodysquared up, no punches thrown,
no, whatever.
He just couldn't leave a refalone First four minutes of the
game you guys Like.
(42:38):
This relates directly to whatI'm talking about when I see
someone who I know I have had anissue with and I cannot stop
centering that person until wehave talked.
Draymond needs to learn how todo that with a referee.
It's the first four minutes ofthe game, dog, nothing is being
decided.
He might say well, the tone ofthe game is being decided and if
(43:00):
you let certain things slide inthe beginning, those things
come back to haunt you.
Fine, maybe, but Draymond Green, you are smart.
But like Draymond Green, youare smart.
I've listened to your show.
I see your points of view.
I see your genius on abasketball court.
On both ends You've made themost out of so precious little
(43:21):
compared to other more talentedbasketball players.
Okay, you are.
You are an I believe you're anNCAA champion.
Two-time Final Four.
You got triple doubles in thefinal four.
You are among, I want to say,the top five all time in triple
doubles in the NBA, somethinglike that.
Stop, I don't have a sheet ofpaper in front of me, but our
(43:44):
point is you're smart.
Your teammates are stressed,your coach is stressed.
After he gets ejected, stephCurry ducks his head into his
jersey and first he's seen kindof shaking his head.
Then he, like, ducks his headinto his jersey, pulls his head
out of the jersey and Steph'sface is red and his eyes are
(44:08):
misty.
J-mon Green, as effectively asit appears now, made Stephen
Curry cry.
Okay, stephen Curry, who, whenStephen Curry shows any form of
emotion on a basketball court,it's almost always like
highlighted on ESPN.
Okay, like, when he kicks achair, throws a mouthpiece, it's
(44:28):
like, wow, stephen Curry, whootherwise, unless he's
celebrating, looks like a roboton and off the court, like,
never says anything interesting,Never does anything interesting
outside of what he does on abasketball court.
Maybe basketball is just his,his form of expression, but like
, but, like he's showing emotion.
Draymond has frustrated you knowthe thing where people get.
(44:51):
Have you guys ever seen someonewho's about to get in a fight
and they don't want to get intothe fight?
Because I have memoriesespecially of, like, kids who
were always getting suspendedfor fighting when I was growing
up and you could feel it when afight was brewing for that kid,
(45:12):
like, maybe they're getting intoit with another kid.
Words are being, you know,words are being thrown back and
forth.
Maybe another kid is eggingthem on, specifically because
they know that they will fight.
And I have memories of certainkids with a North Face jacket,
zipped all the way up in themiddle of April, put on in the
classroom and they're getting somad and so frustrated
(45:35):
frustrated, I think, withthemselves, knowing that they're
about to fight because someonehas triggered them to the point
where they know they're about tofight and they start crying.
I have specific memories ofdudes particularly doing that in
high school and middle school.
Middle school especially, theystart crying because they know
(45:56):
they're so frustrated but theyknow they can't control
themselves.
They know what's about tohappen.
They're going to get in a fight, there's a good chance they're
about to beat somebody's ass,then they're going to get sent
to the principal's office, thenthey're going to get suspended,
then they're going to get thereand they're going to go home and
, if I have to guess, there's ahigh likelihood that when they
go home someone else is going tobeat their ass.
(46:18):
And I think all of thatfrustration is like swelling up
inside them at once and itliterally just makes them cry
because they don't there's's.
They feel like the situation'sout of their control and there's
nothing they can do.
Now.
I don't think stephen curry hasa fight trigger response, but I
think stephen curry has like awhat's the word?
(46:41):
Maybe like almost a repressionresponse.
He is, he is, it's been said,like you know, his wife has even
gone on record saying like thisis him all the time.
He's calm all the time.
Nothing gets under his skin,nothing bothers him.
He, you know not nothingbothers him.
But nothing gets a big reactionout of Steph Curry.
That's just not.
You can see it even in hisquote, unquote big reactions on
(47:04):
court in basketball.
They still look relativelytempered in basketball.
They still look relativelytempered.
And I think a person who's wiredthat way where it's like you
internalize emotions and youdon't push them out, like you
saw on that person's face, yousaw in his eyeballs a level of
(47:25):
frustration that was just like Ihave, like A level of
frustration that was just like Ihave, like I am.
So it's like that kid.
I am so frustrated by how muchthis is out of my control and
this person is out of my controland out of his own control,
that all I can do right now iscry.
(47:47):
And this is a 36-year-old adult.
That's where the warrior seasonis right now.
And yet and this part sucks, Idon't even want to say this part
because it's annoying to me andI'm involved in a competition
where this is relevant to mebecause I have this team.
Unfortunately, I still thinkthe Warriors are going to get
that 10 seed, even though theRockets are charging like full
(48:08):
bore for that thing.
They're 10 and 0 in their last10 games and they just beat the
Oklahoma City Thunder the 1Clast night, but without Shea
Gilgis, which is a major, majoromission.
But I still think, looking attheir schedules that are
upcoming, that the Warriors aregoing to get that 10 seed.
I'm going to tell you guys whatthose schedules look like right
now, because the Rockets have adifficult path ahead, like if
(48:30):
they're going to tell you guyswhat those schedules look like
right now, because the Rocketshave a difficult path ahead,
like if they're going to keepthis up and the Warriors just
don't.
So here's what it looks likeRockets have remaining.
I'm doing a very basketballsegment, so bear with me Anybody
who doesn't give a shit aboutthis.
Rockets have remaining the Jazz, the Mavericks at home, which
is tough.
The Timberwolves, which isextremely tough.
(48:53):
The Warriors, which is veryimportant.
The Heat, which is tough.
The Mavericks, again like theMagic, the Jazz, the Blazers,
the Clippers.
So out of those remaining, Iwant to say nine games.
Six of them are against likelyplayoff teams, not if we include
the Warriors in that, on theother end, the Warriors have
(49:15):
remaining the Hornets, who are abottom feeder.
The Spurs, who are a lotteryteam.
The Mavs tough.
The Rockets meaningful, theMavs again tough.
The Jazz lottery team, theLakers, who this week they're
good, who knows next week?
The Blazers, the Pelicans, theJazz lottery team, the Lakers,
who this week they're good, whoknows next week?
The Blazers, the Pelicans, theJazz.
So I mean not a huge like, notit's not a 60 percent difference
(49:39):
of margin in the difficulty ofthose schedules, but I would say
it's about 20 percent.
And right now every single gamematters for those two teams.
They're fighting over one gameof difference in the standings
between them.
So I hope the Rockets come out.
On top of that, I want to seeAimee Udoka.
Aimee Udoka called LeBron Jamesthe B word.
He said it twice.
(50:00):
Lebron said stop saying that tome and he said it again.
I want to see those two teamsin a one game elimination.
That at this point, that ismore interesting than the adult
swim LeBron versus Steph thatwe've been doing for 10 years.
Like I, we've seen it.
It's cool.
You know what I mean.
It was fun, it was cool.
They were competing forchampionships.
They're not anymore.
(50:21):
So let me see, I'm a Doka andDylan Brooks against LeBron
James in a one game elimination.
That's the kind of theater thatI want.
All right, I literally got toone thing on our docket today.
Maybe two, is that right,morgan?
You got like two.
Okay, great job by me, thankyou.
Okay, caitlin Clark.
(50:43):
So the first thing I want tojust call this out it needs to
be said which is anecdotally Ido not have the ratings numbers
in front of me, but anecdotally,I think that this year's NCAA
tournament, both men's andwomen's have been, I think the
(51:07):
men's has been more interesting,more exciting than most people
expected for it to be, and Ithink the women's has to this
point and it's early, so wehaven't even gotten like the big
marquee matchups yet, but likehas has lived up to expectations
, which is to say, I think thewomen's game has had more buzz.
(51:27):
Anecdotally, I think it's hadmore, more excitement, more
enthusiasm around like thebroader sports audience than the
men's, and it's lived up tothat and the men's has been
interesting.
It's been, it's been cool, likeum.
I'm looking forward to seeingsome of the blue blood teams
(51:47):
face off this weekend in themen's side and the women's side
I'm interested in veryspecifically, like I'm
interested in lsu.
I'm interested in southcarolina because I think those
are among the best two teams andI am such an outsider on this
so let me not even try to soundlike an expert at all.
But caitlyn clark is someone whohas sort of like the superstar
(52:10):
cachet right now and the nationwatching and she's getting a
very generous whistle.
Her team is right now because Ithink that the women's game is
like building momentum on herback to some extent and there is
excitement about what mighthappen when she matriculates to
the WNBA and how that couldaffect that league.
Now and I love this Ice Cubeentrepreneur sees a marketable
(52:38):
oh, I'm so excited about how I'mgoing to talk about this white
person, the way they talk aboutus.
Sees a marketable asset on theblock is how they talk about us
Absolute, absolute freak ofnature.
It's a little more complicatedthough, because she's a woman,
so I need to be careful here.
I'm just not gonna do it.
Um, he sees caitlyn clark, whois a superstar, who is who the
(53:03):
wmba is so excited to have cometo their league so that they can
market around her and basicallysay, like this is our Stephen
Curry and build, build, build,build on that.
And already she is attracted tothe women's game an audience,
including me, that never paidvery much attention to the
(53:24):
women's game, especially thecollege game.
And one thing that I just wantto have said, as I now listen to
, on all the podcasts thatsports podcast that I listened
to, which are all hosted by men,I know if I were a fan of the
women's game and I had and I hadbeen for as long as I have been
(53:46):
a fan of the men's game.
So let's say so.
Let's say I've been watchingand loving and supporting the
women's game for 10, 20, 30years.
If I started to see and feelpeople like me and then people
like Bill Simmons and peoplelike Van Lathan and people like
Bomani Jones swirl around thewomen's game and talk about it
(54:11):
as if they know what they'retalking about, as if they
actually truly care about thisproduct and these players.
And if they actually.
I heard Bill Simmons talkingabout, for instance, how Caitlin
Clark's this part of CaitlinClark's game is going to
translate to the pros.
Kaitlyn Clark's this part ofKaitlyn's card's game is going
(54:32):
to translate to the pros.
And I imagine Bill Simmons andI think he would even admit this
if asked.
I imagine Bill Simmons has paidless than zero attention to how
, for instance, a volumethree-point shooter woman in
college has translated to theprofessional women's game in the
WNBA.
I bet, anecdotally, if you askBill Simmons name three other
(54:53):
women who you've paid attentionto have gone from the college
game to the pro game.
Tell me about that transitionfor them.
He wouldn't be able to and Iwouldn't be able to either.
The one who I know is KelseyPlum.
That's the one that I couldspeak to and I think her
shooting is translatedmarvelously.
That's all I got to say aboutit, because I don't know shit
about it.
But if I saw a bunch of peoplemen specifically crowding around
(55:17):
this game, that I love thisgame, that I have been paying
attention to, that I know andunderstand the way, using this
as a way to continue to buildtheir own platforms and sell
advertisements on theirplatforms, I would be annoyed.
I have an analogy to this,which is that I watched one
(55:43):
episode of Dave last night andit was a challenge for me.
I cannot stomach a show wherethe voice and message of the
show is look how silly it is forthis white guy to be in here
with these black people.
(56:04):
Look how silly it is for thiswhite guy to be in here with YG.
Then there's I watched thepilot.
There's a section at the end ofthe pilot where little Dickie
is rapping and everyone is likesort of, and he's like rapping
and walking around the room.
This is what I imagine Hamiltonlooks like.
He's like walking around theroom and kind of like really in
(56:25):
his rap and doing his white boything with it.
Everybody's amazed by it andI'm like I almost had to turn it
off during that segment of theshow.
I cannot believe we are stillin such an unselfaware place
where, like this is the type ofshow that people like.
(56:46):
That show is whitesplaining hiphop.
The pilot at least.
I can't tell you anything thathappens after that.
Now, I know I will never beable to tell you anything else
that happens after that.
It was my third time trying towatch the pilot.
I finally got through it.
But that's how I feel aboutwhite people crowding around
things that are black things.
Hip hop, that's a black thing.
(57:08):
That are black things.
Hip hop, that's a black thing.
Crowding around it and makingthemselves experts of it to
explain it to each other.
That's what I see right nowhappening with men and the
women's game, the women'sbasketball game.
Now, it cannot be denied theanalogy stands up here it cannot
be denied that from an economicstandpoint, there are some
(57:31):
things that are good about thatfor the women's game and its
players.
As an example, there will bemore NIL money coming into
women's basketball game becausethere's more attention and more
eyeballs there.
There will be more.
Kaitlyn Clark is being offered$5 million to play in the Big 3
next year.
She'll probably turn it downand hopefully make that money
off the court.
(57:51):
But, like, hopefully, morethings like that will happen for
women's basketball players.
I imagine this is good for thecoaches, this is good for the
players, this is good for theschools, which I don't care
about at all, but some peoplewill eat off of this.
And similarly, it can be saidthat, hey, when 50 Cent's album
(58:14):
Get Rich or Die Trying has ahuge grassroots swell, that's
pretty cool, that's prettyawesome.
To get rich and famous by beingknown among your people, it's
better for 50 Cent famous bybeing known among your people.
It's better for 50 Cent evenbetter when that becomes a
worldwide phenomenon and nowpeople all over the world and,
(58:36):
frankly, white people in thiscountry want to give you money
to do other stuff because of thepopularity of this thing.
That's a part like Eminem comesin with Dr Dre and 50 Cent, and
this is another way that we cannow translate what we do to the
broader audience and make moneyoff of it.
That's where it's cool, right,when the money and stuff like
that, when white peoplewhite-splain to each other, when
(58:57):
men mansplain to each other,and it brings more attention to
our thing and more money to ourthing.
But here's where it gets fuckedup.
Here's where it doesn't hold up.
Hold up.
(59:18):
What that also brings is morepeople trying to upstream you on
that money.
What it means is more dudes,because most agents, most sports
agents, are dudes now crowdingaround your women's game and
your ladies like your women'splayers, saying, hey, I got
$70,000 to cover your trainingas you get ready for the WNBA
draft, if you'll be my client,because the money gets passed
(59:39):
around between dudes,predominantly white dudes.
That means more people ofcertain levels of privilege
being able to afford to go to anIowa basketball game as an
example.
That means more dudes.
That means when Kaitlin Clarkan opportunity to come and play
(01:00:11):
in his league with dudes,instead of going to the WNBA,
which has been waiting to haveKaitlyn Clark for four years.
I think sometimes when peoplesay, oh, that's awesome, you
have transcended, you have blownup.
Now you have access to themasses.
(01:00:32):
Now you have access to BillSimmons talking about your sport
.
It's a big deal Dan Levitar,skip Bayless, stephen A Smith,
shannon Sharp your game is nowtranscending.
It's making it into themainstream.
Who's that actually benefit?
Maybe Caitlin Clark and acouple of the other star players
(01:00:55):
, but it's going to end up.
Those same people will show upwith their drills on your
property and say I struck oilhere.
This is mine.
Now Caitlin Clark belongs to us.
We have decided as men.
I got friends right now who arearguing about the history of
(01:01:17):
women's college basketball.
I know these people have paidno attention to women's college
basketball until the last twoyears.
I know that because I talk tothese people every day.
I got people arguing about isKaitlyn Clark the best women's
college basketball player of alltime or not?
They have no idea.
They can only name five starsin women's college basketball
(01:01:40):
history.
And so now you get, now you'regoing to see it.
It is happening in front of us.
You are going to see.
It goes back to the verybeginning of this episode people
filling up the voice sphere,the ideal sphere, the
internetosphere, the mediosphere, with takes and information and
(01:02:00):
opinions on a game that theyhave paid zero attention to and,
frankly, that they are stillpaying very, very little
attention to.
But aside from this part of theattention, which is like we got
to be able to talk about it sowe can offer it to our sponsors
and offer it to our listenersand make ourselves seem to be
(01:02:22):
experts, for as long as this issomething that matters to the
broader audience.
So I have enjoyed.
I am going to try to continueto enjoy celebrating and
watching the women's game, but Iam naturally skeptical about
what happens from here if itcontinues to explode into
(01:02:43):
popularity.
I am skeptical about who thatactually will serve.
I don't know if it's going tobe little girls who want to grow
up to be basketball players andfemale basketball players.
So we'll see.
All right, this has been Nothingbut Anarchy.
This is the show.
This is the show.
I'm Chad Sanders.
Like us and subscribe to us onYouTube, on Spotify, on Apple
(01:03:07):
Podcasts, wherever you getpodcasts.
We'll be back next week Tuesday, maybe Tuesday, I don't know.
We'll be back next week withanother episode for y'all.
Goodbye, outro Music.
All right, this is Nothing but Anarchy.
Welcome to Nothing but Anarchy.
Episode number looking at thedocket 97.
That's crazy.
(00:20):
We're going to come up onepisode 100.
I bet right around the time ofone year of the show, maybe,
maybe.
Mortgagron is here, we are indifferent rooms, we are.
I'm in my house, she is in anunknown location and we're doing
the show via Riverside.
(00:40):
I think, possibly, that we willbe doing more of the show via
Riverside, so let's figure outhow to make it work.
My friend, justin G, chatted methis morning.
He says random thought but haveyou found that there's more
stuff to talk about in 2024 thanthere was in 2023?
(01:01):
Which I thought was aninteresting question because I
had not considered that.
My experience with time andsubject matter right now is just
that there is as much to talkabout as we can possibly fill
(01:22):
space with.
Which is said differently islike I don't know that there are
ever.
Let's just take modern historyLike in the last 10 years,
people have said a lot.
People say a lot of things likethings have never been this bad,
or I can't believe all thethings that are going on right
now, in this time, and thosesorts of comments that are meant
(01:47):
to say like this is the mostfraught time or even just this
is the most eventful time inhistory, those like sometimes,
when people say things like that, they just wash over and that's
not what I think my friendJustin was saying.
I think he was literally justsaying this year seems more
packed already with stuff thanthe previous year and, to be
(02:08):
honest, like 2020 did feel likea special year in a lot of ways,
with, obviously, covid, kobeBryant died and then the summer
of, you know, racial tumult andunrest and George Floyd and all
the things.
But like, generally speakingnow, with the way that media is
(02:29):
set up, I mean let's just talkabout this particular show, the
job that I have coming into thisshow.
The reason why Justin evenasked the question is because,
whether or not anythinginteresting has happened, I have
to manufacture interestingnessout of whatever has happened.
So I woke up this morningthinking I looked at my text
(02:52):
story with Morgan and we didn'thave very much in it and I was
like I wonder what we can findthat is interesting to talk
about here.
And we have to.
We as the creatives.
I guess we, as like the writershere, have to make something
interesting out of whateverexists, and I think that is the
case for the larger mediaindustrial complex that we have
(03:15):
right now, which is to say,there are people who are, who
have a financial incentive, aneconomic incentive, a job
incentive, as we do, whose jobit is, all over the country, all
over the world, to makesomething interesting out of
whatever is happening, even ifwhat is happening is
(03:36):
inconsequential.
And so, in that way, I cannotsay definitively that there is
more going on right now thanthere was last year or the year
before that, the year beforethat, because we've been in this
sort of media industrialcomplex for probably I'm going
to say the last like 10 years,but we're really, really, really
(03:57):
, really, really in it right now.
So, with that said, here'swhat's on the docket.
Here are some really important,interesting things that we're
going to talk about today.
And don't get me wrong, once Ihave coffee, I have a lot to say
about everything.
Everything is in its own.
I had this kind of back andforth argument I don't know what
(04:18):
to call it with a friend yearsago, where I'm like this is a
core belief of mine.
I think every single person hasan interesting story to tell.
I think every single person isinteresting.
I think every single person hasbeen through something.
Every single person has a dream.
Every single person has a pointof view that is unusual or
(04:40):
unique to them.
I think every single personmight have something to say if
they only just look at whatthey're experiencing and what
they're thinking about with acertain lens on it, and he felt
differently.
He felt like no, some peopleare just dull, some people are
just boring.
Some people live dull, boringlives and then they die.
And I guess that mirrors whatI'm saying about this time that
(05:05):
we're in, which is like any timecan be interesting if you are
willing to open yourself up tolook at it with a certain lens,
just like any person cansimilarly be interesting if
you're open to look at it with acertain lens.
This is what we're looking attoday, with a certain lens.
It appeared that DraymondGreen's tactics last night made
Steph Curry cry, which I thoughtwas interesting.
(05:29):
Kaitlyn Clark, who is probablythe biggest star in college
basketball men's or women'sright now she plays for Iowa.
She's like a swing woman, Iguess, like a shooting guard
three, but she also plays somepoint.
She is likely to be the numberone pick in the NBA draft, the
big three, which is Ice Cube'sthree-on-three league, which is
(05:52):
like Ice Cube's kind of startupleague that he means to take a
little bit of market share ofthe basketball viewing
viewership.
Ice Cube wants to offer, or mayhave already offered, kaitlyn
clark five million dollars tocome play for the big three.
She's likely to make around ahundred thousand dollars or
something like that playing inthe wmba next year not, not not
(06:14):
including sponsors, sponsorshipsand brand deals and all kinds
of other money she'll make offthe court.
But whatever, um, I guess we gotto talk about diddy.
Um, there's a, there's achapter in my new book titled.
I guess we should talk aboutkanye.
Uh, my book is about sellingout, and there are some things
where I literally forgot to talkabout diddy the other day
(06:38):
because, like, there are somestories that are so big and so
right down the like the middleof media that reach everybody
they're almost so mucheverywhere that they're nowhere,
and this is one of thosestories where I was just like I
forgot.
I don't think we even talkedabout putting it on the docket.
I can't remember, though.
Maybe we did.
No, we didn't, we didn't.
(07:00):
But first, before we get intoany of that stuff.
I'm going to talk about anexperience that I had on Tuesday
night, hit by a deluge ofresponsibilities, things I had
(07:31):
to get moving on.
Such is life right now.
This is like an interestingmoment in my adulthood, in my
career, where everything to someextent has to run like my.
My fingerprints are oneverything.
If something's going to getdone, I have to sort of push it
to get done.
And that doesn't mean like mespecifically, necessarily like
(07:54):
Morgan does a lot of pushing.
There's a couple other peoplewho do a lot of pushing, but
like it's sort of it's my teamand me and my team used to mean
actually a bunch of people who,as I came to realize, were not
my team.
I was like a client of theirsthat was one of a zillion
clients and one of the leastimportant among them, unless I
(08:17):
had a deal that was right on theprecipice of getting done.
And we have sort of moved thepower center back over to be a
little more centralized aroundme, which means that if things
need to get done, I have to makethem get done.
And when your car battery isdone, when you get off a flight,
when your car battery is dead.
That makes everything takelonger.
But one of the things that Iwas excited to do on Tuesday was
(08:45):
I went to a poets and writersgala with my sister that my
sister invited me to.
I'm going to talk about why itis cool to have siblings.
I have only one, which is myolder sister.
She, as many of you all know,debuted her first published
(09:06):
full-length work called Company,a collection of short stories
that she wrote about thedynamics of families is how I
would describe it thecomplicated dynamics of families
.
And my sister and I are close.
My sister and I talk almostevery single day.
My sister listens to everyepisode of this show, sometimes
(09:29):
multiple times, often multipletimes.
My three-year-old nephews, whoare twins who can talk, but
obviously they just turned threeso they still speak in their
own sort of language.
They know the sound of my voicefrom this podcast so well, from
my sister listening to it inthe car, that one of them will
(09:49):
sometimes ask to listen to UncleChad's podcast.
And my sister took me as herplus one to Chelsea Pier, which
is all the way on the west side,next to the water, all the way
further than West Side Highway.
It's literally touching water.
She took me to this gala and itwas fancy.
It was fancy people I shouldn'tsay fancy people, it was people
(10:11):
behaving fancily as you knowthem to do right.
So I my sister, told me weeksago she said where you can wear
something cool and artsy, and Ifinally got a chance to wear the
suit that I wore on the coverof my direct deposit key art a
couple of years ago, which islike a floral patterned purplish
(10:37):
, violet-ish suit that has likea tie around belt situation.
It's like a fabric belt thatyou tie around instead of
buttoning the suit together Ifyou want to, or if you're me and
you gained five to 10 pounds inyour lower half over the last
two years, you do that becauseyou don't want to accidentally
(11:01):
bust the suit open when you,when you try to button the
buttons.
And I spent from the time I putthe suit on until the end of
the night.
I spent the entire night havingto be thoughtful about how I
bent my body so that I didn'tbust the pants open of the suit,
or how I crossed the legs orwhatever, because that could
(11:22):
have happened.
But I go to the thing.
My sister and I meet there andit is a room of, I would say,
200 or so I'm going to use theterm Is power players, the right
(11:46):
word Like 200 or so people whoare actually sort of firmly in
the publishing business, whichmeans authors, editors,
publishers, agents and some,like you know, corporate folks.
(12:06):
Like I was sitting next to awoman named Liz who works in the
audio books and podcastingdepartment at Apple.
She was in her fifties and or Ithink she told me she was 50
exactly and she's been workingin publishing for like 28 years
is how she put it.
So she knew everybody in theroom and Roxane Gay was there,
(12:29):
which was a very fanny fanmoment for me.
It was one of the reasons why Iwas very excited, besides just
getting to go and have a nightand hang out with my sister
without our families, withouther kids, which is extremely
rare in our adult life now, likeI was also very excited to get
to be a fan boy for someone whoI look up to in a part of my
(12:51):
work.
That I think is honestly, ifI'm being real, is most
legitimate.
Like I have read two of RoxaneGay's books Hunger and Bad
Feminist and the subject matteris compelling.
Her tone is compelling.
But what I really love aboutRoxane Gay is like this is
(13:14):
something that I also foundcompelling in Stephen King's
book on writing You're justwriting.
I think people get caught up inthe language of it all.
It's very easy.
People get caught up in thelanguage of it all.
It's very easy to get caught upin the language of it all.
It's very easy to remember, oh,that one thing that you read
where someone turned a phrase soartfully and so poetically and
(13:37):
it really like lasted and stayedwith you and it felt, like,
felt like you had eatensomething delicious and it went
down so smooth and cute andwhatever.
And if you look on Instagram oron Twitter or on TikTok,
everybody's trying to like saysomething so artistically and so
with such, you know, with somany adverbs and lies and
(14:01):
whatnot and like and all theseextra words that fill up space
and don't actually add anythingto the sentence, because they're
not actually trying to like saysomething.
Necessarily, they're trying tomake a pretty picture that
people will share and that will,you know, have virality.
But writing, when it's done welland meaningfully and
(14:24):
effectively, is supposed to.
It's not supposed to be aboutthe words.
The words are accoutrement.
The words are window dressing.
It's supposed to be about whatyou're saying.
Like are you saying somethingthat is a lasting idea for
someone that they can digest andput into their own like, build
(14:44):
into their own cycles, their ownethos?
I'll say that all reallyplainly how Stephen King says.
It is like whatever languageyou have, whatever lexicon you
have, however many words youhave, use those, but just say
what you're saying.
And that's what I love aboutRoxane Gay is like her writing
(15:05):
says what it's saying, so youdon't have to spend time in your
head like interpreting oh, didI get that right?
Did I read that right?
Et cetera.
Now my sister and I my sistervery much hosted.
She was a host for this thing,she was a host for this event.
It was her event among otherpeople.
It was fancy, the table was,the tables were all nice and had
(15:29):
nice cloths and nice food andchampagne and desserts and all
kinds of stuff first, and sheknew that I wanted to meet her.
And I never do this Like if Isaw, I don't know, I never, I
never.
People say this all the time,but I never do the thing If I
(15:51):
see somebody out who I admire oreven who I just have known
about for a long time.
It's really difficult for me toget the bravery or the
confidence to go over to thatperson or the brazenness to go
over to that person andintroduce myself, unless I'm in
a place of urgency and I needsomething from that person,
(16:12):
which is what I did for SpikeLee, many, many, many, many, but
like eight years ago when Ifirst met him.
But my sister spots Rockton Gayseven years ago.
So this is Rockton Gay.
She comes back over to thetable and she says, hey, she's
sitting over there and we have.
This is like the sibling partof it.
We, we, we go over there,she'll know the side of the room
(16:33):
, sitting quietly, eating andjust being frank about it all.
Roxane Gay has written andspoken openly, speaks openly
about her own issues with herweight and with food, and so me
and my sister, as siblings, sortof tiptoeing in her direction
(16:54):
around this room full of, let'sbe honest, mostly, you know,
rich white folks, like we'retiptoeing around this room to
get to someone that I think is ahero, which is Roxane Gay, and
she is a, as a, you know, she'sa self-described fat black woman
(17:14):
who has some stuff with hereating.
And so we stand there and wewatch her eat for about 20
seconds, while my sister and Icontemplate okay, who's going to
be the one to go over and speak?
Who's going to?
How is it going to be done?
Should we give her space?
What if she's not feeling it?
What if she doesn't really wantto talk to us right now,
(17:34):
whatever?
And then we go back to ourseats without saying a word to
her.
The night proceeds.
People give speeches.
Roxane Gay gives a great speech.
People give speeches.
Roxane Gay gives a great speech.
People talk about how importantit is for there to be writers
right now and for there to bepublishing right now, because
people are literally burningbooks and when they burn books,
they will also burn bodies, etcetera, et cetera.
It's pretty heavy.
(17:55):
The speeches are.
There's a lot of fundraisinggoing on.
I think $60,000 were raised inthe room.
Over a million dollars wereraised for that event altogether
, and afterwards now we got togo back over and meet Roxane Gay
and we tiptoe our way back overthere.
We finally speak to her.
My sister, I think, is the onewho said hello to her first, and
(18:19):
you know, my sister and I arein our 30s, like my sister's.
A lawyer I'm me and like we'renot like you know, we're not
some little like tiny Tim headass niggas.
We're not like, oh my gosh,like it's such an honor to meet
you.
But that's exactly who we werewhen we started talking to
(18:40):
Rakten Gay and she could nothave been she herself almost I
don't want to say like childlike, because that's probably has
the wrong connotation but shewas so earnest and warm and had
such a humility that I was notexpecting.
I almost thought there was achance she was going to want to
(19:00):
flick me specifically away likea bug.
When we came over to her andshe could not have been more
like um, inviting and and andalmost like wanting to see us
there, especially my sister forit for real, for real, like
based on the eye contact and thebody, posturing and etc.
Etc.
Like she was happy to see mysister there and that that was
(19:22):
very nice.
So, anyway, that was our nighton Tuesday.
After that, me and my sister Iwant to say this this is what I
want to say actually One is Iwould be lying if not to say so
me and my sister both gotrecognized a few times in this
place by different people.
It's really cool to be like awriter duo, as bro and sister.
(19:47):
Like me and my sister went tothe same colleges at the same
time.
I followed my sister's paththrough elementary school,
middle school and not highschool.
She went to a different highschool.
We went to piano lessons at thesame place, went to church at
the same place, like there was alot of our lives where we there
(20:08):
was a connection, that is, weare shannon and chad, like that.
That was a thing for where wegrew up and people knew us as
two kids that were smart andcreative.
Like that was the vibe.
They were like those two kids.
They not necessarily that theydo great in school, because at
different times I think each ofus didn't do great in school
(20:30):
full of, you know, fancyschmancy, wanting to be people.
(20:50):
I felt like I felt more centered, I felt more safe.
I felt like there was someonein that room who was going to
know if I was having a badexperience and was going to know
how to read my face or my toneor my fake laugh and help me and
vice versa.
And on top of that, I thinkthere's a chance, I think
(21:12):
there's a likelihood that asboth of our imprints grow here,
that more and more people willcome to know us as a duo, know
us as a duo, and I think there'spower, there's real power in
(21:33):
that for a duo of sibling Blackauthors.
There were a bunch of folks inthat room and I would have to
guess that less than 5% of theauthors who were in the room
were Black authors.
Maybe I don't know, who knows.
There was one more thing Iwanted to say, which is this I
needed to be in a room of bookpeople.
(21:55):
I have been.
I have had my head, very my headand my money deeply invested in
marketing lately, and marketingis synonymous right now with
social media.
Marketing is synonymous withpaid advertising, digital
(22:19):
advertising.
It's like it can make your headgo beep, boop, beep.
It can definitely turn you intoa little bit of a of a robot
and as a part of that, I thinkit can detach you from the art
itself.
Like so much concern with themarketing is storytelling.
(22:41):
So like the storytelling aroundthe storytelling, like actual
storytelling, is your book, yourTV series, your podcast
sometimes, depending on how youdo it.
But the storytelling aroundthat storytelling can start to
make me feel more and more andmore distant from the actual
product, like from the actualthing that you give to people.
(23:02):
And it was nice to be aroundpeople again who, who or I
shouldn't even say again,because when I published my book
it was 2021.
Like there was.
There were no live events likethis for me to go to with my
first book.
It has been.
It has been nice and I'mincluding the Chanel event in
this.
It's been nice to get back infront of warm bodies of human
(23:23):
beings that read, that careabout words on a page, that care
about ideas sharing, that careabout something that is not just
like what is getting the mostclicks and the most shares and
the best clicks per dollar spentto your profile.
People who actually give a shitabout the art.
(23:46):
I needed to absorb that and Ineeded I needed to I'll be
honest like I needed to feelseen for what I can do
creatively and not just for,like, what I can do with my face
and image on these apps.
So that was a blast and thankyou, shannon, for taking me to
(24:07):
that.
I really, really, really,really needed that and it was so
fun.
I'm going to give words to thisbecause this is not a backtrack.
This is going to dovetail intoour next segment, which is about
Steph Curry and Draymond Green.
I'm going to tell you, guys,something that happens to me.
Morgan, you can tell me if thishappens to everybody.
Sometimes I feel like Chad,this is a you thing because you
have so many feelings, butsometimes I'm like, no, I think
(24:29):
everybody goes through this.
So, morgan, would you say it issafe to say that you know how I
feel about you.
When I feel it, yes, yes, Iwould say like 80, 80%, okay,
80%, that seems high-ish.
Well, let me say what I meanhere.
(24:52):
Let me be like Rox again.
Just say what I'm fuckingsaying.
I am going to lean more Overtime.
That's already happening.
I'm feeling it happen.
I am going to lean more intothe game of all of this.
I am going to lean more intothe quorum because I consider
(25:12):
those to be a part of marketing.
I did my, I came in, I did mypush as, like you know,
independent, singular I'm notgoing to be fake authentic
(25:33):
artist.
And it has been super cute,it's been so cute.
Good job, chad.
You did it.
You know you even sort offormed a reputation for yourself
as such and, along the way,like you punted and passed on
some relationships with peoplethat possibly could have been
helpful to you, good for you.
You protected your yourself orsomething Like yourself, and by
(25:55):
that I mean like your actualself, like your identity.
You didn't stretch so far in away that you couldn't get
yourself back.
The next one month, the next 10months, are about selling.
The next 10 months are aboutmaking sure that my profile
(26:18):
grows and that the word gets outabout this book that I have
coming out and a couple otherthings, and with this audience,
this one right here I am goingto be straightforward about
everything.
As I have been to this point,or as I meant to be right, I'm
going to try to keep up thatsame dynamic as well with my
(26:43):
Instagram following, which iswhere a large part of my
audience sits.
The breadth of my audience sits, the breadth of my audience
sits there.
That's how I communicate,that's my walkie talkie to the
people.
All bets are off In every otherenvironment Because, fuck it.
Like this is what.
(27:04):
This is how the game is played.
I need to do what's best fornot even just me at this point,
but like for the center core oflike this, this team of what's
happening, and that means I'mgoing to give you an example of
what that means.
(27:24):
So at the event that I was at onTuesday, I saw somebody who
gave me a weird vibe a coupleyears ago when I was making a
decision about something.
They wanted to work with me.
I did not want to work withthem, and not for any personal
reasons other than just like I.
(27:45):
Just that was just not mychoice, that was just not what I
wanted and I my one regret inall of this is that I didn't
circle back around to thisperson to tell them that I
didn't want to work with them.
I wanted to work with someoneelse.
And why?
And I think I have left someloose ends in that way
(28:06):
throughout my time in all ofthese businesses because, one,
things are moving extremely fastand it's really hard to make it
back to circle closest to.
I try to always give honesty,like I try to always like.
(28:31):
So every single loose end oh,there was this little
conversation that ended weirdhere.
Let's pick it back up and let'sfinish it, like always, always
with other people, my voicecracked.
Things are moving so fast.
It's really hard to do that.
But I'm also going to addsometimes it is just a weight.
It just costs emotional energyto go back to someone and
(28:54):
disappoint them.
Go back to someone andface-to-face tell them thank you
but no thank you.
That is hard to do I'm gettingbetter at it but it's really
hard to tell somebody no, thankyou.
Saw the person and this happensto me a lot.
(29:15):
It's happened at a weddingrecently.
This this is this is thishappens when you, when you won't
just eat shit all the time andbe phony, there's a cost to that
.
Like eating shit and beingphony, I'm starting to realize
is underrated because there is acost to that.
When you are a little bit too,when you're a little, when you
look people a little too real inthe, in the face, like when
(29:37):
you're a little bit too straightwith your feelings, like when
you're a little bit too easy toread, there's a cost to that.
This is the cost.
You end up seeing peopleoutside in the places, in the,
in the venues, in the spots, andthey are swirling around quite
easily doing the show like doingthe game, doing the performance
(30:01):
, because that is their decorum,like that is their way of, that
is their decorum, like that istheir way of, that is their
modus operandi.
I think that's the right word.
But if you're sitting there andbeing like I'm going to be
authentic with my feelings, likeI'm not going to be fake
whatever, whatever, like you'restuck.
Like you're stuck because ifthe two of you do happen to have
(30:23):
an interaction, or if you dohave, if there's a way that
you're not going to avoid eachother, you have to address it.
And so here's what's come upfor me in that regard recently,
and this is kind of how it islike this is how I'm sometimes.
I'm like I'm like penny.
Penny's my dog.
This is how I'm like penny.
Sometimes, if there's somethingin the, it's like a magnet for
(30:47):
me, like once I see that theperson's there, I am like an
owning missile on them, likeeverything now centers around.
I am going to have to have aconfrontation with this person.
Not like we're not going tofight.
You know what I mean.
Not like we're going to have anargument, but like there is an
elephant in the room must beaddressed.
(31:08):
I don't know why it's that way.
I actually think it's because Ithink it's because I grew up in
a family dynamic where we didnot always address the thing,
and so sometimes the thing wouldbe in the room and it would be
unaddressed for the sake ofkeeping the peace quote-unquote
peace.
But I oftentimes feel like Igotta go say something.
(31:33):
I I gotta go like I don't wantto avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid.
So one of my friends asked melast night on face.
I was on face time with a fewof my friends and he said um, he
said you know, if you're Waleor Cuddy or whoever and Diddy
has caused some serious harm toyou or threat of harm to you,
(31:54):
like dangling you over the sideof a balcony, you have to.
There's only two ways you cango from there because you're
going to keep seeing Diddy again, because you work in Diddy's
industry.
So either you can try to avoidDiddy for the rest of time,
which seems to me impossible itseems very difficult to avoid
(32:14):
someone into perpetuity who hasa private jet Because they can
go anywhere.
They can go anywhere that yougo, they have a private jet or
the very next time you see thatperson you've got go, say what's
up, you got to.
You have to like, and this iswhy I say I'm like Penny in this
regard.
Penny is only going to go saywhat's up.
(32:35):
Me and my friend Leon laugh,because people in our industry
Hollywood, I'm now calling ourindustry they will do and say
weird things to you or they willalmost challenge you, like they
will say, well, you know, thisthing happened, blah, blah, blah
.
Call me, text me, blah.
(32:57):
And they and they and they kindof don't expect you to do it
because, like intimidation is aform of action that swirls
around Hollywood.
Intimidation like I'm this bigperson, I got this power, like I
move things around how I wantthem, how I want to.
Like intimidation is sort of apart of how people make things
(33:20):
happen in Hollywood.
But they don't expect you toactually go see, they don't
expect you to actually go see,they don't expect you to
actually give them that phonecall, they don't expect you to
actually text and just say, hey,what's going on?
So well, here's the irony ofthis entire spiel, which is that
(33:40):
this person walked right pastme.
He cut kind of cut through likea few tables and walked, slam
past me and I have.
No, I didn't see it coming.
He came from behind, so Ididn't know if that was like to
just let me know that he wasthere or whatever, whatever, and
like to be frank with you and I.
(34:01):
It was gone by the time ithappened.
It was gone.
I saw it was looking at theback of this person and I never
went to go say what's up to thisguy.
I instead decided to like tryto enjoy this night and did very
much so.
And like it wasn't about any ofthat, it was about like hanging
out with my sister.
It was about meeting one of myheroes.
It was about like soaking inthe bookishness of this place
(34:24):
and being with other artists.
But I thought about it a lotbecause that's new for me.
(34:46):
That's something I am going tobe working on for the for the
near future is being real withmy team and with the audience,
and being as fake as I need tobe with everybody else.
Morgan, do you think this is agood plan?
I think it is.
I also think you don't need tobe fake.
I don't know.
I feel like people mightsurprise you so that you don't
(35:09):
have to be fake.
Like I feel like going into itknowing that you're going to be
fake feels like you're settingyourself up for something and
then also expressing thatpublicly.
Yeah, okay, I'm being facetious.
Obviously, I'm being a littlebit facetious, like I'm not
going to walk around acting like, but what I am going to do is
(35:29):
like I am going to be nimble,I'm going to be agile, I'm going
to be a little bit more, alittle bit more kumbaya like, a
little bit more.
Like you know, this thinghappened.
It miffed me.
I don't need to hold on to itand I don't and, honestly, I
(35:53):
don't even necessarily need toaddress it, unless it's so
meaningful and it's going tohave a real impact on my life.
Like I, everything doesn't haveto be something.
That's the thing that I'm,that's the thing that I'm going
to be walking about with.
I'm not actually going to befake.
All right enough, let's talkabout somebody who was not fake
last night.
Draymond Green did some shitlast night.
(36:16):
So the Warrior.
There's an exciting thinghappening that's swelling in the
NBA, which is that there arenow only 11 teams in each
conference whose season remainsalive, which is to say that they
are eligible for the playoffsand or the play-in.
And in the Western Conference,especially, the fight for the
(36:40):
10th seed, which is the lastplay-in spot, is very, very
close.
The Rockets trail the Warriorsby one game and those two teams
are going to play each othersometime in the next two weeks.
There's two weeks of the seasonleft, so every single game
matters.
The Rockets are on a 10-gamewin streak.
(37:01):
I love the Rockets.
I love everything about theRockets.
I love their coach, aimee Odoka.
I love their stars Jalen Green,alperin Shingun.
I love their young guys AminThompson, cam Whitmore I'm
forgetting people.
Oh, ja'shaun Tate Like they'rejust.
Jabari Smith is kind of eh, butlike eh.
(37:23):
You know, everybody can't beawesome.
I like, I really like theRockets and what I oh.
I love Dylan Brooks.
We've talked about this.
Fairground lead is kind of eh,but he's serviceable for what
they need right now.
What I love most about them isthat they didn't quit on their
season when they were sevengames under 500.
They are now three games above500 with eight games left, and
(37:44):
they're right behind theWarriors for that 10th seed.
I would much rather watch theRockets face off against LeBron
and the Lakers in the 10-9 gamethan to watch the Warriors do it
.
I just think the Warriors arecooked.
I think they're mentallyexhausted.
I think this run of the lastdecade for them decade plus at
(38:06):
this point of playing deep intothe playoffs almost every single
year and also, frankly, justlike outkicking their coverage
as a team.
I think they're exhausted.
They don't have top five picksin their pedigree.
Steph's their highest pickedstar.
He was a seventh pick.
Klay Thompson, I believe, wasthe 11th overall pick, maybe
(38:27):
12th, maybe 10th, I can'tremember.
Draymond Green is a secondrounder.
These guys have squeezed allthe juice out of what they have
and it looks like there's not alot of juice left, more talent
left.
He has more ability to produceleft, but it really is looking
(38:48):
like mentally they are fried.
This is what it looks like tobe fried mentally.
Draymond Green, who we havediscussed on this show and who's
been discussed in the publicconversation ad nauseum.
He is Having a meltdown.
He's already been suspended.
(39:09):
I think he missed 12 gamesearlier this year for whatever
it was that you want to callthat he did to Yusuf Nurkic and
choking out Rudy Gobert, andjust a lifetime achievement
award for all the like I don'teven know what to call them, I
guess violent, semi-violentthings that he's done on
basketball courts.
(39:34):
And I've said this before, likeI am not against the bulldozing
slightly dirty, attackingbodyguard basketball player, I
think every team needs at leastone or two of those guys and I
(39:56):
think it helps if the guy whoyou have doing that on your team
is your big man, which is whatDraymond Green has in essence
been for the Warriors for thelast decade.
He is their center.
Kevon Looney is right now outof the rotation, like he'll come
back for certain matchups, butDraymond is their center.
Like you want your center to bethe bully on your team you want
(40:20):
?
I actually like thinking back onmy own experiences playing ball
, especially in like middleschool, high, high school, you
know AAU even just like runningaround playing pickup, like even
now as an, as a fucking oldtimer at the run like man.
Do I hate when me or somebodyelse who is not a big man is
(40:45):
like the most aggressive personon the team man?
Do I hate it when the actualtall big guy out there it wants
to like float around and nothave too much contact?
It changes the dynamic ofeverything.
So anyway, I've over-talkedthis, but like I don't care that
Draymond Green gets a littledirty.
I think that's part of the gameand I think that's what winning
teams often have as a reminderto you all.
(41:08):
Nikola Jokic is dirty.
Okay, nikola Jokic ran up andshoulder slammed into the back
of Markeith Morris a coupleyears ago and left him out for
the season, and Markeith Morrishas not really been like a
rotation NBA player since thathappened.
Okay, so you're going to bethree-time MVP, nba champion.
(41:31):
Nikola Jokic is that player forthe Denver Nuggets.
If anybody's ever wondering, dothey have that guy Like it's
him.
He's the dirty guy.
Every team needs somebody likethat and Draymond's that guy.
What you don't need and thisleads to what happened last
night is you don't need anyoneon your team, including that
(41:57):
person, also having thesemoments of emotional lapse where
they are now putting yourseason at risk.
Draymond Green last night in amust-win game because every game
is a must-win game from now tothe end of the season for the
(42:17):
Warriors got himself ejected inthe first four minutes of the
game and it wasn't, you know,any sort of active aggression or
like a tiff with another player.
There was no standoff, nobodysquared up, no punches thrown,
no, whatever.
He just couldn't leave a refalone First four minutes of the
game you guys Like.
(42:38):
This relates directly to whatI'm talking about when I see
someone who I know I have had anissue with and I cannot stop
centering that person until wehave talked.
Draymond needs to learn how todo that with a referee.
It's the first four minutes ofthe game, dog, nothing is being
decided.
He might say well, the tone ofthe game is being decided and if
(43:00):
you let certain things slide inthe beginning, those things
come back to haunt you.
Fine, maybe, but Draymond Green, you are smart.
But like Draymond Green, youare smart.
I've listened to your show.
I see your points of view.
I see your genius on abasketball court.
On both ends You've made themost out of so precious little
(43:21):
compared to other more talentedbasketball players.
Okay, you are.
You are an I believe you're anNCAA champion.
Two-time Final Four.
You got triple doubles in thefinal four.
You are among, I want to say,the top five all time in triple
doubles in the NBA, somethinglike that.
Stop, I don't have a sheet ofpaper in front of me, but our
(43:44):
point is you're smart.
Your teammates are stressed,your coach is stressed.
After he gets ejected, stephCurry ducks his head into his
jersey and first he's seen kindof shaking his head.
Then he, like, ducks his headinto his jersey, pulls his head
out of the jersey and Steph'sface is red and his eyes are
(44:08):
misty.
J-mon Green, as effectively asit appears now, made Stephen
Curry cry.
Okay, stephen Curry, who, whenStephen Curry shows any form of
emotion on a basketball court,it's almost always like
highlighted on ESPN.
Okay, like, when he kicks achair, throws a mouthpiece, it's
(44:28):
like, wow, stephen Curry, whootherwise, unless he's
celebrating, looks like a roboton and off the court, like,
never says anything interesting,Never does anything interesting
outside of what he does on abasketball court.
Maybe basketball is just his,his form of expression, but like
, but, like he's showing emotion.
Draymond has frustrated you knowthe thing where people get.
(44:51):
Have you guys ever seen someonewho's about to get in a fight
and they don't want to get intothe fight?
Because I have memoriesespecially of, like, kids who
were always getting suspendedfor fighting when I was growing
up and you could feel it when afight was brewing for that kid,
(45:12):
like, maybe they're getting intoit with another kid.
Words are being, you know,words are being thrown back and
forth.
Maybe another kid is eggingthem on, specifically because
they know that they will fight.
And I have memories of certainkids with a North Face jacket,
zipped all the way up in themiddle of April, put on in the
classroom and they're getting somad and so frustrated
(45:35):
frustrated, I think, withthemselves, knowing that they're
about to fight because someonehas triggered them to the point
where they know they're about tofight and they start crying.
I have specific memories ofdudes particularly doing that in
high school and middle school.
Middle school especially, theystart crying because they know
(45:56):
they're so frustrated but theyknow they can't control
themselves.
They know what's about tohappen.
They're going to get in a fight, there's a good chance they're
about to beat somebody's ass,then they're going to get sent
to the principal's office, thenthey're going to get suspended,
then they're going to get thereand they're going to go home and
, if I have to guess, there's ahigh likelihood that when they
go home someone else is going tobeat their ass.
(46:18):
And I think all of thatfrustration is like swelling up
inside them at once and itliterally just makes them cry
because they don't there's's.
They feel like the situation'sout of their control and there's
nothing they can do.
Now.
I don't think stephen curry hasa fight trigger response, but I
think stephen curry has like awhat's the word?
(46:41):
Maybe like almost a repressionresponse.
He is, he is, it's been said,like you know, his wife has even
gone on record saying like thisis him all the time.
He's calm all the time.
Nothing gets under his skin,nothing bothers him.
He, you know not nothingbothers him.
But nothing gets a big reactionout of Steph Curry.
That's just not.
You can see it even in hisquote, unquote big reactions on
(47:04):
court in basketball.
They still look relativelytempered in basketball.
They still look relativelytempered.
And I think a person who's wiredthat way where it's like you
internalize emotions and youdon't push them out, like you
saw on that person's face, yousaw in his eyeballs a level of
(47:25):
frustration that was just like Ihave, like A level of
frustration that was just like Ihave, like I am.
So it's like that kid.
I am so frustrated by how muchthis is out of my control and
this person is out of my controland out of his own control,
that all I can do right now iscry.
(47:47):
And this is a 36-year-old adult.
That's where the warrior seasonis right now.
And yet and this part sucks, Idon't even want to say this part
because it's annoying to me andI'm involved in a competition
where this is relevant to mebecause I have this team.
Unfortunately, I still thinkthe Warriors are going to get
that 10 seed, even though theRockets are charging like full
(48:08):
bore for that thing.
They're 10 and 0 in their last10 games and they just beat the
Oklahoma City Thunder the 1Clast night, but without Shea
Gilgis, which is a major, majoromission.
But I still think, looking attheir schedules that are
upcoming, that the Warriors aregoing to get that 10 seed.
I'm going to tell you guys whatthose schedules look like right
now, because the Rockets have adifficult path ahead, like if
(48:30):
they're going to tell you guyswhat those schedules look like
right now, because the Rocketshave a difficult path ahead,
like if they're going to keepthis up and the Warriors just
don't.
So here's what it looks likeRockets have remaining.
I'm doing a very basketballsegment, so bear with me Anybody
who doesn't give a shit aboutthis.
Rockets have remaining the Jazz, the Mavericks at home, which
is tough.
The Timberwolves, which isextremely tough.
(48:53):
The Warriors, which is veryimportant.
The Heat, which is tough.
The Mavericks, again like theMagic, the Jazz, the Blazers,
the Clippers.
So out of those remaining, Iwant to say nine games.
Six of them are against likelyplayoff teams, not if we include
the Warriors in that, on theother end, the Warriors have
(49:15):
remaining the Hornets, who are abottom feeder.
The Spurs, who are a lotteryteam.
The Mavs tough.
The Rockets meaningful, theMavs again tough.
The Jazz lottery team, theLakers, who this week they're
good, who knows next week?
The Blazers, the Pelicans, theJazz lottery team, the Lakers,
who this week they're good, whoknows next week?
The Blazers, the Pelicans, theJazz.
So I mean not a huge like, notit's not a 60 percent difference
(49:39):
of margin in the difficulty ofthose schedules, but I would say
it's about 20 percent.
And right now every single gamematters for those two teams.
They're fighting over one gameof difference in the standings
between them.
So I hope the Rockets come out.
On top of that, I want to seeAimee Udoka.
Aimee Udoka called LeBron Jamesthe B word.
He said it twice.
(50:00):
Lebron said stop saying that tome and he said it again.
I want to see those two teamsin a one game elimination.
That at this point, that ismore interesting than the adult
swim LeBron versus Steph thatwe've been doing for 10 years.
Like I, we've seen it.
It's cool.
You know what I mean.
It was fun, it was cool.
They were competing forchampionships.
They're not anymore.
(50:21):
So let me see, I'm a Doka andDylan Brooks against LeBron
James in a one game elimination.
That's the kind of theater thatI want.
All right, I literally got toone thing on our docket today.
Maybe two, is that right,morgan?
You got like two.
Okay, great job by me, thankyou.
Okay, caitlin Clark.
(50:43):
So the first thing I want tojust call this out it needs to
be said which is anecdotally Ido not have the ratings numbers
in front of me, but anecdotally,I think that this year's NCAA
tournament, both men's andwomen's have been, I think the
(51:07):
men's has been more interesting,more exciting than most people
expected for it to be, and Ithink the women's has to this
point and it's early, so wehaven't even gotten like the big
marquee matchups yet, but likehas has lived up to expectations
, which is to say, I think thewomen's game has had more buzz.
(51:27):
Anecdotally, I think it's hadmore, more excitement, more
enthusiasm around like thebroader sports audience than the
men's, and it's lived up tothat and the men's has been
interesting.
It's been, it's been cool, likeum.
I'm looking forward to seeingsome of the blue blood teams
(51:47):
face off this weekend in themen's side and the women's side
I'm interested in veryspecifically, like I'm
interested in lsu.
I'm interested in southcarolina because I think those
are among the best two teams andI am such an outsider on this
so let me not even try to soundlike an expert at all.
But caitlyn clark is someone whohas sort of like the superstar
(52:10):
cachet right now and the nationwatching and she's getting a
very generous whistle.
Her team is right now because Ithink that the women's game is
like building momentum on herback to some extent and there is
excitement about what mighthappen when she matriculates to
the WNBA and how that couldaffect that league.
Now and I love this Ice Cubeentrepreneur sees a marketable
(52:38):
oh, I'm so excited about how I'mgoing to talk about this white
person, the way they talk aboutus.
Sees a marketable asset on theblock is how they talk about us
Absolute, absolute freak ofnature.
It's a little more complicatedthough, because she's a woman,
so I need to be careful here.
I'm just not gonna do it.
Um, he sees caitlyn clark, whois a superstar, who is who the
(53:03):
wmba is so excited to have cometo their league so that they can
market around her and basicallysay, like this is our Stephen
Curry and build, build, build,build on that.
And already she is attracted tothe women's game an audience,
including me, that never paidvery much attention to the
(53:24):
women's game, especially thecollege game.
And one thing that I just wantto have said, as I now listen to
, on all the podcasts thatsports podcast that I listened
to, which are all hosted by men,I know if I were a fan of the
women's game and I had and I hadbeen for as long as I have been
(53:46):
a fan of the men's game.
So let's say so.
Let's say I've been watchingand loving and supporting the
women's game for 10, 20, 30years.
If I started to see and feelpeople like me and then people
like Bill Simmons and peoplelike Van Lathan and people like
Bomani Jones swirl around thewomen's game and talk about it
(54:11):
as if they know what they'retalking about, as if they
actually truly care about thisproduct and these players.
And if they actually.
I heard Bill Simmons talkingabout, for instance, how Caitlin
Clark's this part of CaitlinClark's game is going to
translate to the pros.
Kaitlyn Clark's this part ofKaitlyn's card's game is going
(54:32):
to translate to the pros.
And I imagine Bill Simmons andI think he would even admit this
if asked.
I imagine Bill Simmons has paidless than zero attention to how
, for instance, a volumethree-point shooter woman in
college has translated to theprofessional women's game in the
WNBA.
I bet, anecdotally, if you askBill Simmons name three other
(54:53):
women who you've paid attentionto have gone from the college
game to the pro game.
Tell me about that transitionfor them.
He wouldn't be able to and Iwouldn't be able to either.
The one who I know is KelseyPlum.
That's the one that I couldspeak to and I think her
shooting is translatedmarvelously.
That's all I got to say aboutit, because I don't know shit
about it.
But if I saw a bunch of peoplemen specifically crowding around
(55:17):
this game, that I love thisgame, that I have been paying
attention to, that I know andunderstand the way, using this
as a way to continue to buildtheir own platforms and sell
advertisements on theirplatforms, I would be annoyed.
I have an analogy to this,which is that I watched one
(55:43):
episode of Dave last night andit was a challenge for me.
I cannot stomach a show wherethe voice and message of the
show is look how silly it is forthis white guy to be in here
with these black people.
(56:04):
Look how silly it is for thiswhite guy to be in here with YG.
Then there's I watched thepilot.
There's a section at the end ofthe pilot where little Dickie
is rapping and everyone is likesort of, and he's like rapping
and walking around the room.
This is what I imagine Hamiltonlooks like.
He's like walking around theroom and kind of like really in
(56:25):
his rap and doing his white boything with it.
Everybody's amazed by it andI'm like I almost had to turn it
off during that segment of theshow.
I cannot believe we are stillin such an unselfaware place
where, like this is the type ofshow that people like.
(56:46):
That show is whitesplaining hiphop.
The pilot at least.
I can't tell you anything thathappens after that.
Now, I know I will never beable to tell you anything else
that happens after that.
It was my third time trying towatch the pilot.
I finally got through it.
But that's how I feel aboutwhite people crowding around
things that are black things.
Hip hop, that's a black thing.
(57:08):
That are black things.
Hip hop, that's a black thing.
Crowding around it and makingthemselves experts of it to
explain it to each other.
That's what I see right nowhappening with men and the
women's game, the women'sbasketball game.
Now, it cannot be denied theanalogy stands up here it cannot
be denied that from an economicstandpoint, there are some
(57:31):
things that are good about thatfor the women's game and its
players.
As an example, there will bemore NIL money coming into
women's basketball game becausethere's more attention and more
eyeballs there.
There will be more.
Kaitlyn Clark is being offered$5 million to play in the Big 3
next year.
She'll probably turn it downand hopefully make that money
off the court.
(57:51):
But, like, hopefully, morethings like that will happen for
women's basketball players.
I imagine this is good for thecoaches, this is good for the
players, this is good for theschools, which I don't care
about at all, but some peoplewill eat off of this.
And similarly, it can be saidthat, hey, when 50 Cent's album
(58:14):
Get Rich or Die Trying has ahuge grassroots swell, that's
pretty cool, that's prettyawesome.
To get rich and famous by beingknown among your people, it's
better for 50 Cent famous bybeing known among your people.
It's better for 50 Cent evenbetter when that becomes a
worldwide phenomenon and nowpeople all over the world and,
(58:36):
frankly, white people in thiscountry want to give you money
to do other stuff because of thepopularity of this thing.
That's a part like Eminem comesin with Dr Dre and 50 Cent, and
this is another way that we cannow translate what we do to the
broader audience and make moneyoff of it.
That's where it's cool, right,when the money and stuff like
that, when white peoplewhite-splain to each other, when
(58:57):
men mansplain to each other,and it brings more attention to
our thing and more money to ourthing.
But here's where it gets fuckedup.
Here's where it doesn't hold up.
Hold up.
(59:18):
What that also brings is morepeople trying to upstream you on
that money.
What it means is more dudes,because most agents, most sports
agents, are dudes now crowdingaround your women's game and
your ladies like your women'splayers, saying, hey, I got
$70,000 to cover your trainingas you get ready for the WNBA
draft, if you'll be my client,because the money gets passed
(59:39):
around between dudes,predominantly white dudes.
That means more people ofcertain levels of privilege
being able to afford to go to anIowa basketball game as an
example.
That means more dudes.
That means when Kaitlin Clarkan opportunity to come and play
(01:00:11):
in his league with dudes,instead of going to the WNBA,
which has been waiting to haveKaitlyn Clark for four years.
I think sometimes when peoplesay, oh, that's awesome, you
have transcended, you have blownup.
Now you have access to themasses.
(01:00:32):
Now you have access to BillSimmons talking about your sport
.
It's a big deal Dan Levitar,skip Bayless, stephen A Smith,
shannon Sharp your game is nowtranscending.
It's making it into themainstream.
Who's that actually benefit?
Maybe Caitlin Clark and acouple of the other star players
(01:00:55):
, but it's going to end up.
Those same people will show upwith their drills on your
property and say I struck oilhere.
This is mine.
Now Caitlin Clark belongs to us.
We have decided as men.
I got friends right now who arearguing about the history of
(01:01:17):
women's college basketball.
I know these people have paidno attention to women's college
basketball until the last twoyears.
I know that because I talk tothese people every day.
I got people arguing about isKaitlyn Clark the best women's
college basketball player of alltime or not?
They have no idea.
They can only name five starsin women's college basketball
(01:01:40):
history.
And so now you get, now you'regoing to see it.
It is happening in front of us.
You are going to see.
It goes back to the verybeginning of this episode people
filling up the voice sphere,the ideal sphere, the
internetosphere, the mediosphere, with takes and information and
(01:02:00):
opinions on a game that theyhave paid zero attention to and,
frankly, that they are stillpaying very, very little
attention to.
But aside from this part of theattention, which is like we got
to be able to talk about it sowe can offer it to our sponsors
and offer it to our listenersand make ourselves seem to be
(01:02:22):
experts, for as long as this issomething that matters to the
broader audience.
So I have enjoyed.
I am going to try to continueto enjoy celebrating and
watching the women's game, but Iam naturally skeptical about
what happens from here if itcontinues to explode into
(01:02:43):
popularity.
I am skeptical about who thatactually will serve.
I don't know if it's going tobe little girls who want to grow
up to be basketball players andfemale basketball players.
So we'll see.
All right, this has been Nothingbut Anarchy.
This is the show.
This is the show.
I'm Chad Sanders.
Like us and subscribe to us onYouTube, on Spotify, on Apple
(01:03:07):
Podcasts, wherever you getpodcasts.
We'll be back next week Tuesday, maybe Tuesday, I don't know.
We'll be back next week withanother episode for y'all.
Goodbye, outro Music.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!