The Not-So-Odd Couple: Jack Klugman and Tony Randall

Felix and Oscar bickered and argued, but theirs was a genuine friendship. so too with the actors who played them on television.

In this 2005 interview Jack Klugman talks about his book Tony And Me.
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#Odd Couple # Tony Randall # 1970s # sitcom

Burton anyway. Actor Jack.
Klugman today on Now. I've heard everything.
I'm Bill Thompson. You know, show business is full

(00:26):
of stories of Co stars who can'tget along, who don't get along,
who will never get along. So it's kind of refreshing to
hear a story of Co stars who notonly got along, but formed a
long and lasting bond of friendship.
Such is the case with Jack Klugman and Tony Randall, the Co
stars of the hit 1970s TV seriesThe Odd Couple.

(00:48):
Now you might ask, were Jack andTony, Oscar and Felix?
Well, there was some some evidence to suggest that was the
case. But just like the characters
they played on television, Jack Klugman and Tony Randall
actually had a deep and mutual love and respect.

(01:09):
Now their bond was tested, sorely tested when Jack Klugman
was dealt A potentially career ending, potentially life ending
throat cancer diagnosis. Well, Jack Klugman told the
story of their friendship in his2005 book called Tony and Me.
And as you're about to hear, it was this book not only about

(01:31):
this unique and strong friendship, but about years and
years worth of anecdotes of JackKlugman's long and illustrious
and award-winning career. Just a moment, our conversation.
This is one of the more than 10,000 interviews that noted
radio personality Bill Thompson did over a 30 year span.

(01:51):
Sit back and relax. Unless you're driving, in which
case keep your eyes on the road.So here now, from 2005 Jack
Klugman, I have to. Tell you I've, I've read a lot
of memoirs, a lot of autobiographies, you know,
Hollywood types. This is probably the the best

(02:12):
story that I've ever read. I mean it, it's it, it the, the,
the warmth, the genuine friendship that comes through in
this book. That is so funny because I just
put down what happened and maybethe first five years when we did
The Odd Couple first, I'd work with the 1954.
We did a clinker called A Point with Adventure.

(02:33):
Well, in those days, could you would sponsor nine months of
good shows and three months of clinkers because they were
cheap. And we did the clinker of
clinkers and he played a professor, the light to cook.
I played a gangster, the light to cook.
We were The Odd Couple, but thenI didn't see him until we did
The Odd Couple. And we had a nice friendship.

(02:53):
We respected each other. We loved the theater.
We both studied acting under teachers that taught the same.
But it's not until somebody becomes sick, is needy, is
vulnerable that the relationshipeither goes on to another notch
or it dissolves. And when I got sick and I lost
my voice, he was the first one at the hospital beside my kids.

(03:15):
And I said, and the the cancer was worse than they thought.
So I had no sound at all. I could just whisper.
And I was So I said I lost my voice.
He said, let's face it, Jack, you never did sound like wishing
burden anyway. But then he said, even when
you're ready to come back, we'llfind the venue for you, see?
I'm gonna find the venue and find an actor without a voice.

(03:36):
But he did. And he he gave me back my life
because acting was my best friend.
It gave me an education. It got me to be wonderful
people, got me to travel. It gave me an identity.
But above all, acting said you learned that you could learn.
And then the world opens up to you.
I mean, you go into a library. I need a library.
All of them. They have all these books, 26

(03:59):
letters. I know the alphabet acting said
get a library card and you own the world.
And I had only read up to Sinclair him to that point and I
became a really a devoured books.
I read all of fortnight go through the ball, Oxley and then
and it was a wonderful time. I loved it.
Even when I was starting in New York.
I knew it was a better life thanwhen I was a bookie.

(04:21):
I was a bookie. I was a an odd numbers running.
I did a lot of things way to bartender everything until I was
23. But that, I'm guessing that kind
of experience with people and working, you know, in a real
situation. He probably gave me the kind of
background that an actor needs, didn't it?
Not really. I I didn't know it.
I got there. I left because I owed a loan,

(04:42):
Shuck some money and there were two guys out to collect that
want to break my knees. I call this guy Uncle Tommy.
But he said, Jake, I got $100,000 on the street.
You don't pay me. I don't do anything to you.
You know, I could kiss that money goodbye.
He was very friendly to me. So when I went to Pittsburgh, I
went to Carnegie Mellon. It was Carnegie Tech then to

(05:04):
study tuition was $225 a session, 450 for the year.
Today it's like, I don't know, 12,015 thousand more.
So what I didn't know what an audition was.
I never spoken before 3 people and there were 27 girls all in
the book, 27 girls. I was the only guy and which I

(05:26):
like those odds usually, but they were 17 years old properly.
There was Nancy Marchand who played the mother and and say to
Thompson who was our brilliant actress.
I did all my sons with later. They were wonderful and they
were so accomplished. They got up into scenes so
smooth and they spoke English the way that was what was

(05:46):
supposed to be spoken. I spoke like The Sopranos.
So I was intimidated and I got up and I did for the first time
in front of these people, I did Our Town.
I couldn't be more on this cast than that stage manager and I
hyperventilated and I said I can't go on.
Then I went around to be re evaluated and the department

(06:08):
said you are not suited to be anactor Mr. Glugman.
You are much suited to be a truck driver, but you see, I'll
probably have no men to do scenes with, she said.
But I I think I'll let you go ifyou'll come in under those
conditions. In January when the guys come
back from the Army, it was 1945.I'd been in the Army and the GI
Bill. So I said, hey, give it that

(06:30):
time. I came home because they're
going to break my knees. So I figured I'd work as I did.
I sold the car for $85 and I gota job as a busboy, and I send
that home to Uncle Tommy. He saw that I was trying to pay
him and I pay them off, by the way.
And the first thing I did was I took three weeks to really, we

(06:52):
rehearsed for three weeks and now we're ready to go on.
And there were three chairs, there were park bench and three
flats that represented trees. And I love this girl and that
rich uncle in Philly. And he, I went over there to eat
and he had chicken. I say I wasn't hungry because I
could do not eat it. That was so uncomfortable and
I'm waiting to go on after threeweeks rehearsal and my heart is

(07:17):
beating so hard. I'm sure it's going to come
through my skin and I go on stage and a calm came over me
that I had never experienced. And those three chairs became a
park bench and the flats became trees.
I love this girl. And I knew that I could eat
chicken on that stage and I knewI was more comfortable on that
stage than I was in life and that and I knew I and when I

(07:40):
finished, I, I didn't know whereI was.
Sometimes my concentration, I wish I had it today.
And they were applauding. The kids were applauding.
And she said to the kids, you see, I almost made a mistake.
She said, I expect the talent tocome in a nice red box tied with
the blue ribbon. She sometimes it comes with a
lot of dirt on just have to wipeaway the dirt.

(08:02):
And she said, Mr. Klugman, I waswrong.
You belong here. Well, I, you know, I was 23
years old. I didn't know where I belong.
I didn't belong anywhere. And when she said that, it was
like everything fell into place.I just had a good cry, went
home. I said probably I just cried.
I went home and I had the happiest cry ever had.

(08:23):
And that was it. And then acting from that day
on, I'm a coward in many ways. But in acting, you cannot monkey
around. With my acting, I mean, I've
quit lucrative jobs where the director said, no, say it this
way. And I said, Hey, tell me what
you want, but don't you ever read a line for me?
I don't want a guy you couldn't get a job on Howdy Doody if you

(08:45):
were an actor. So he never used me again.
But it was worth it. I, I was very, very, I was not,
I was going to be loyal to my best friend, which was acting.
And I was. I really loved it.
As you talk about the very firstday, when you and Tony sat down
for the first read through, I guess you, you yelled at him and
he said you're not going to yellat me.
No. And he said yeah, we are.

(09:07):
They all left doing and I then Gary said, well, that went well.
Touched. Yeah, except when Jack yelled at
me. I said, well, that was part of
the script. And he said, well, you're not
going to hell, are you? I said, I don't know.
I said that's why. So I may yell louder.
I'm not sure. No, no, you must have yelled.
He said. I said, Gary, it hasn't cost
anybody any money. I'll pay it back for the plane

(09:28):
fare. I can't work with this guy.
I said why not? I said I wouldn't have the list,
but to tell you how to act. Why are you telling me?
You said what? I'm just trying to help.
I said no. He said fine and I thought that
was the end of it. But about 3 weeks later we had
three shows in the can. He said why can't I tell you
what to do if I think you're wrong?
I said now you can tell me anything you want 'cause now

(09:50):
it's a suggestion not an order. And we got a loaded well except
that I was smoking and that's why my sound like this terrible
to smoke and we were in the cow in the limo and I was smoking.
He said you can't smoke in there, I can't smoke and that's
when I smoke and we had a big fight and he got up because I

(10:10):
can't work with this guy. He's under carry and I came out
and said I can't work with him either.
He said it's very simple. We'll get 2 limos.
Sometimes that's the simplest solution is the one that works
the best. After this short break, Jack
Klugman addresses the question, Were he and Tony actually Oscar
and Felix? You know, AI is not just for 22

(10:34):
year old coders. A lot of us older adults are
drawing on our life experience to find unique and creative ways
to use AI at home or at work. Got an AI success story you'd
like to share? Tap the link below to visit our
YouTube channel, AI After 40 andLet's keep learning together.

(10:57):
Now back to my 2005 conversationwith Jack Klugman.
People. Assumed over the years that you
guys were your characters. Well, I know if you asked Tony
that he would have said, oh whata great question.
I am Oscar, I really am. I love the gamble, I love women.
I'm messy, I'm not dirty, I bathe, but I'm sloppy.

(11:20):
You look at my hotel room right now.
But Tony, there are certain people they just meet.
He sat away from bad pants and had Pepsi Cola ridden all of
them for $2.00. When they put them on, they look
like they came off the racket. Brooks Brothers.
If I put on the papers, it just came off the racket.
Brooks Brothers, they look like PepsiCo was written off.

(11:40):
Some guys, just a need, you know, I remember why what I did.
Mr. Roberts, a guy had a Burberry coat, paid $125.00.
I'm talking about 1950. A $125.00 was a week's salary.
So I said I'm going to buy one of those because he would throw
it everywhere but always look new.
I bought it. I'd throw it one place on the

(12:00):
train. It looked like a rag.
It just it just I'm a slob, in fact, and send the book and they
they couldn't find a wardrobe for Oscar.
So they they they looked around and finally kidding to me and
they said, listen, we'd like to buy your wardrobe, whatever
you've got. I said, well, they said you
jacket, you sport jackets and good to em and your pants and

(12:24):
everything. I thought it was a compliment.
I said what you guys, I charged him $360.00 and made a profit.
That's how bad the clothes were.Then I realized it wasn't that.
Wasn't it so. So what you're saying the first
season or two, the first couple of seasons, the clothes that
Oscar Madison's wearing were your clothes?
My clothes, I wore them for fiveyears.

(12:44):
They were like, well, Tony had suits that were 35 years old.
He'd say if you don't have them clean.
But they look great on him. I mean they look like an old
suit. You've got a great passage in
the book where you're talking about how you watched Walter
Matthau do the role. Yeah.
And you realize that there was aline in there that helped you
capture what you needed to do with the role.

(13:05):
And that's when Oscar referred to Felix as his closest and
dearest friend. That was the key, wasn't?
It that's the key. Now if I were when Walter, I got
can't tell you I'm good. He was not in the movie, not
that good in the movie because they got out.
He was so funny and they loved him so much.
One when they I couldn't while Iwas about two weeks before I

(13:28):
replaced him. So I watched him.
Unfortunately it was so good. And then his upper plate got
loose. So he played the whole first
time with a cigar clenched between his teeth, got a million
laughs. So I went out and bought him
some Poland and intermission andeverything.
He put it on. They came, came home loose
again. He said to the audience, my
upper plate is loose. They applauded for three

(13:48):
minutes. They just loved him.
And I said, it's got to be something.
And then he said it really on stage.
I heard him say, and then you moved in.
My closest and dearest friend and I said, that's the key to
this play. They love each other.
They just can't live together otherwise.
Why do they stay together? And that's the important part.

(14:09):
But people don't play that. When I did the television show,
they would. We had the best comedy writers
in the business. We had Harry Miller and Jerry
Buss. Gary Marshall was sensational
and I'd say, fellas, it's very funny after three days, every
show now, where's the love scene?
Where's the scene where I say, Felix, I love you, but I can't
go that far. He says, Oscar, you've gone too

(14:31):
far this time. And so when you have that love
as a clothesline to hang the live song, then it became a
show. And if I had to tell Nathan
Lane, not that I have joined those, Matthew Broderick, they
are so good, but I would say make sure that love scene is
there. There's a moment even Neil Simon

(14:51):
didn't know it. He didn't he he loved laughs.
It was a moment where he's goingto leave in the third act and
the play and I'm standing in front of the doors and he says
I'd like to leave now. And I took about 6 seconds to
without any Laos words. I my eyes said I love you free.
Let's not end this way. I just can't live with you.

(15:13):
And then I stepped out of the way.
But I never said those words. Well, the first time I did that,
when I discovered it, Neil Simoncame running back.
What is his death of a salesman?I said, you're getting all those
laughs. I said, that's the moment he
said no. He said, I want to laugh.
I don't care what you want. I knew it was right.
And it's the secret to that play.

(15:34):
See, it's not about him. It's about his brother Danny.
Danny was Felix Anger. And then it was my story.
And Danny's wife threw him out. He cried at the slightest
provocation. And he, when he was still
lonely, lived in with a guy named Roy Gerber, who was Oscar
Madison. So he started to write this.
And Neil said, what are you doing?

(15:55):
He's not writing this play aboutme.
And what he said. That's a great idea.
Then they talked again. He said, how's the play coming?
And then he said, well, I can't get to it.
So Neil said, let me write it. I'll give you 10%.
That 10% has been worth $15 million.
My boy just lost Danny last year.
Oh shit. Now, have you seen the Nathan

(16:16):
Lane, Matthew? No, no, I did.
Yeah. I'm going to see it in January
when I go there. I was like sold out for months
isn't it? Dick Scalping tickets for $1000.
And you and you saw saw Marlon Brando in A Streetcar Named
Desire for Buck 80. OK, I saw Death of a Several
with Lee Cobb, better than that for $1.80.
I saw it five times for $9, fivetimes.

(16:40):
You, you know, I'd walked on Broadway and I'd look between
Broadway and 8th and I'd see by Arthur Miller, by Tennessee
Williams, Village O'Neill. I mean Nick Kingsley, playwright
after playwright, Maxwell Anderson.
Just today you pay $100. You walk down, you get one play.

(17:01):
If they got to play in them and there aren't any plays now
they're musical revival and you pay 100 bucks.
People are paying $400 to see the producers.
Now they're paying 1404 hundred is the going price.
Some people out of town to go see Odd Couple.
I wanted to do it Tony for $25.00 because we didn't get,

(17:22):
I've never got people of color into the theater and I wanted to
bring them in. I said maybe it's too expensive
because when I would see a play that start black actors, it
would be filled with people of color.
So I said that's what we wanted,get them into the theater.
They said you can't do it. It just doesn't.
You'll lose a lot of money. Tony put $8 million of his own

(17:44):
money into that National Actors Theatre, but he loved it.
They treated him so badly, they called him the television
entrepreneur trying to break in the Broadway.
He did such wonderful plays. He was not appreciated.
He was a *. But nobody knew how good he
really was. That was like when I do work
with Ethel Merman. She would sing to me and I'd

(18:05):
smile, you know, and when we come up she'd say, what are you
smiling at? Did you pay to get in?
I said no honey, but I got the best seating house.
Oh. It's stories like that this.
This book is 1 probably more of the most fun books I've read in
months. Thank you.
I didn't know that people tell me that, you know, they would

(18:25):
touch, They laughed and they cried.
I'm just, I'm selected, of course, the stories to tell, but
it's just what that happened. It all happened.
And The funny thing, I'm, you know, I did when I did the odd,
we did The Odd Couple. We of course wanted ratings.
So we didn't know. We never got them, but we
didn't. We now I'm going out on the
road, I feel, well, I'll be bored.

(18:45):
People are coming up and they'resaying I grew up with you.
I sat on the couch with you, with my mother or my father, and
we laughed at you. And so I represent a very happy
time in their lives. And I got goosebumps now.
It's so wonderful because now they have an identity, they have
a face and a name, and I'm having a great time.

(19:07):
I mean, I thought I'd be bored. I'm having a great time going
out. Jack Klugman died on Christmas
Eve 2012. He was 90.
Now, you can get your copy of Tony and Me by Jack Klugman by
tapping the link in our show notes by clicking the link in
the description below. If you're watching this on
YouTube or by going to our website heardeverything.com, we

(19:29):
may earn an Amazon Commission ifyou make a purchase.
Heardeverything.com is where youcan also find my 1996
conversation with the man who created The Odd Couple,
playwright Neil Simon, and what I had.
Oscar say was Felix, Everything you do annoys me, you know, I
come home and I find little notes on the pillow.
We are all out of cornflakes. Then I knew I had to sign it.
Felix would sign it in an annoying way so he'd say Felix,

(19:52):
Mr. Felix, Mr. Unger, something else.
And I said I'll put the initial down F you.
And I said, Oh my God, that's gold.
I just discovered gold. And my 19. 95 Conversation with
the man who brought The Odd Couple to television, Garry
Marshall. We live like.
Everywhere else where my shows were 1-2 and three in the
ratings, I remember I told my wife, hey, why don't we?

(20:13):
She says. I know it's wonderful, come help
me take out the garbage. And of course, we.
Post new episodes of Now I've Heard Everything every Monday,
Wednesday and Friday and you canfind us wherever you find
podcasts. And thank you so much for
listening. Next time on Now I've Heard
Everything. A well known TV news man and
commentator has written a book, a novel, a mystery story, a

(20:33):
thriller about murder among television news people and
commentators. My 19. 98 conversation with Bill
O'Reilly I've always been a. Maverick, anybody who's watching
me on television knows I speak my mind on the Fox News Channel
on Inside Edition. I I just laid it out there for
you. You make up your own mind.
I'm a maverick. I've always been that.

(20:55):
That's next time. Now I've heard everything.
I'm Juel Thompson.