July 3, 2025 • 33 mins
What does it take to grow from a solo IT freelancer to the founder of a thriving Managed Services Provider with a 25-person team and a bold vision for the future?
In this episode of Now That’s IT: Stories of MSP Success, we sit down with Barinder Hans, founder and CEO of Red Rhino, to explore his journey from building PCs at his dining table to leading one of Canada’s most respected MSPs.
Barinder shares:
- How he transitioned from break-fix work to a fully managed services model
- The challenges of hiring his first employee after 10 years solo
- Why culture, documentation, and leadership were key to scaling
- How Red Rhino’s rebrand reflects a bigger vision for the future
- His take on AI, automation, and the next evolution of the MSP industry
Whether you're just starting your MSP journey or looking to scale with purpose, this episode is packed with insights, inspiration, and real-world lessons from someone who’s lived it.
Let us help you unlock your business's full potential.
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'Now that's it: Stories of MSP Success,' dives into the journeys of some of the trailblazers in our industry to find out how they used their passion for technology to help turn Managed Services into the thriving sector it is today.
Every episode is packed with the valuable insights, practical strategies, and inspiring anecdotes that lead our guests to the transformative moment when they knew….. Now, that's it.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
One, two, three, four , I think.
If I really reflect on it backthen I thought a lot smaller
than I think now.
You know, with competency, ourconfidence grows and with a
little bit of success you'reable to think a bit bigger.
We think a lot bigger now and Ithink a lot bigger now than I
would have at that time.
Relationships are king.
You have to serve people, youhave to serve your clients, you
(00:24):
serve your employees, you serveRed Rhino, and the rest of it
falls into place.
Welcome to Now.
That's it.
Stories of MSP Success, where wedive into the journeys of some
of the trailblazers in ourindustry to find out how they
used their passion fortechnology to help turn managed
services into the thrivingsector it is today into the
thriving sector it is today, allright, good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I'm excited to have the owner of Red Rhino, mr
Berender Hans, here.
Welcome.
Welcome to the Now that's it.
Podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Oh, it's a pleasure I tell you what.
We've known each other for along time and you've been on my
list of folks to try to get hereto really tell your story.
I think you have an amazingstory.
I think you there's gonna be alot of folks listening to this
podcast that actually can relateto where you are today and
where you've been over the lastseveral years.
So why don't we start off witheverybody and just tell a little
(01:14):
bit of your backstory, rightStarting off?
So I remember when we talkedlast.
You've been in school for awhile.
You were a non-traditionalstudent, as I like to call them,
several years, right, and thenyou got a job working in IT, but
then you said I want to dosomething different.
Talk a little bit about thoseearly days.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
While I was going to university I found a job, local
computer company, worked therein the summers, took a year off,
worked there, et cetera, andultimately, even after I I
graduated which I was tellingyou like took eight years to do
my four-year degree because Iended up taking every philosophy
, every arch, every other courseother than my computer courses
I needed to take.
And when I ultimately finishedI just still stayed with that
(01:56):
company.
I really liked working thereand then at some point I decided
that you know what I might beable to do this on my own.
I'm not sure what I wasthinking at that time on
hindsight, but I called my wife,who I was at the time my fiance
.
She was in India doing weddingshopping and we were gonna get
married.
I'm like, hey, hon, I think.
(02:17):
I think I'm gonna quit and tryto do this for myself.
And she's like is that a idea?
And we were both young and dumbenough to think it was.
And that's how I startedfreelancing.
I did freelancing for quitesome time.
I think it was like nine yearsor so that I was solo
freelancing and doing randomthings.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Talk about when you were just an IT tech.
What was the type of work thatyou were doing and what was
going through your mind that youwere doing and what, like what
was going through your mind thatthat maybe instigated you
saying I feel like I could dothis better if I was on my own
yeah, it was all break fix work.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
At that time it was a standard.
You know, uh, computer retailervar, a lot of home-based
customers and then businesscustomers.
But the home base was alreadydrying up and getting
commoditized by then, and sowhen I ventured off on my own in
2005, what I could see is thatthere was this transition
towards the real need inbusiness to have IT people be
(03:18):
more proactive, more progressive, and that's all I knew.
And also the way we were doingthings wasn't always using the
latest and greatest technologyavailable to us to solve some of
those problems.
So I figured I could give it atry.
In the early days.
I would say and people ask methis question like you know,
what did you dream of becoming?
And things like that I think,if I really reflect on it back
(03:40):
then, I thought a lot smallerthan I think now.
You know, with competency, ourconfidence grows and with a
little bit of success, you'reable to think a bit bigger.
We think a lot bigger now and Ithink a lot bigger now than I
would have at that time.
I think, if you asked me backin 2005 when I started
freelancing, or even the 2010when I got more serious about it
and and we started off ourjourney as Red Rhino, I would
(04:04):
have said, you know, creating asmall business where it can pay
a few bills all right, goodmorning.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I'm excited to have the owner of Red Rhino, mr
Brenda Hans, here.
How welcome.
Welcome to the now that's itpodcast here.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
That's when.
So I used to the company I usedto work for.
The owner was always my friendand my mentor.
So in 2014, I was actually ableto buy his company from him
because he was winding down andretiring, and so when that's how
I got my first employee and afew other contracts, and from
there on, that's when we reallystarted out a second employee
(04:40):
and a third employee.
So I always want to just createa little company that could pay
a few bills, and but then, youknow, one foot in front of the
other and, next thing, you know,our ambitions keep growing.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
What types of services were were you offering
early on there and and what sortof clients were you servicing?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
A lot of break fix, a lot of break fix.
We did start using RMMs fromday one.
We were on a PSA from day one.
But all the clients werebreak-fix, reactive work and
that was common back then.
But the MSP space was in placeand I would take some of those
elements of hey, let's sell anessential package.
(05:19):
I remember the first fullymanaged deal I got.
It was one of my clients and Iwent and talked, went and talked
to him like hey, how about weturn this into predictable
revenue?
Because you, I'm reading allthe blogs, I'm getting excited
about this MSP journey and thisMSP space, what was still felt
early at that time, but itprobably realistically wasn't.
And then I went and talked tohim and I'm like here's how much
(05:39):
we can do for you if you justpay this fixed monthly fee.
And he said, yes, and it was$40 a seat, yeah, just giving it
away.
But I mean, a lot of us startedthat way that's great.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
So you know, early on , though, even before you
started your own company, yousaw the, the predictability, the
proactiveness.
But you start, you, you.
You started the company on whatyou knew best, which which is
break-fix and project work, andyou did that sort of freelance
work for a period of time.
And then, at some point in time, you took a gamble and you gave
something away, which is likewhat most of us had done at some
(06:15):
point in time.
And then how did that client,that $40 a month seat, how did
that pan out?
Did you realize quickly?
I'm underwater on this.
Did it give you enoughconfidence for you to continue
to evolve that service offering?
How did that work?
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, it was actually a great decision, I will say.
You know, sure, it was $40 aseat, but I had no overhead, I
was building computers on mydining table and I had no rent,
no, any other expenses, justsome minimal technology expenses
.
And while it was cheap at thetime it did give me confidence
that there's an appetite for it.
And then the next one you sellis at $50, the next one you sell
(06:51):
is $60.
And it just rises from thereand I think I was like $75 an
hour until for a very longperiod of time for my hourly
rate and just it does give youthe confidence.
But what was clear at that timewas people needed that
proactive care which I thinkthat need only grew with
technology and the way thingsare.
I mean, everybody knows the MSPspace because cybersecurity is
(07:13):
one of those things that overthe last 10 years that risk has
only grown for business.
Talking to clients, thecybersecurity concerns and risk
made it easier to sell, that'sgreat Right.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
You just mentioned a little bit ago about your first
employee.
It took you 10 years to hirethat first employee right.
Why so long, and what was itthat made you realize I got to
pull the trigger and I got tobring somebody else in for some
help.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, going from zero to one I think is the hardest
from an employee perspective.
It was something I alwayswanted, but it's hard to selling
is hard.
Being an MSP that starts fromnothing to grow to something I
think is really challenging, andit was for me.
When you have only X amount ofdollars you're making, you can
(08:04):
turn that over and give it tosomebody else and, like all of
us, sold shit really cheap backthen, right, and you can turn it
over and give it to somebodyelse and you have almost nothing
left.
It's tough to make thattransition, knowing that you
don't know when your next clientis going to come from.
I'm not a sales background kindof person.
It's something that we growinto over a period of time and
(08:26):
back then when I was looking forthat first employee, you need
them because I I mean, for 10years I didn't take a vacation
further than a three-hourdriving distance, right, and I
knew I needed somebody.
But they need to be good.
They almost need to be aunicorn, like we are, that can
handle a lot of different things, including sales, including
(08:48):
that upsell.
Hey, this is how you solveproblems.
You need architect, but youalso be able to crawl under
desks and install computers andprinters.
It's tough to find that firstperson, it's tough to have
enough revenue for that person.
But when I did take over thatexisting client base from my
friend, that's when we couldafford to have that first
employee and then soon afterthat second employee as well.
(09:09):
And I'm proud to say that thatfirst employee stuck with us for
the majority of Red Rhino'slife, up until about two years
ago.
And employee number two isstill with us and he's head of
our professional services now,that's fantastic, Berndur.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
So let's talk about building that team out.
Right, you just mentioned youhired number one, number two
you're quite a bit larger thanthat.
Now what have been those sortof?
What have been the biggestchallenges, or what was the
biggest challenge building thatteam out?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Sales is always the number one challenge and I think
we still struggle with that Alot better at it now we have a
sales team, but most of ourjourney as Red Rhino, the growth
, has come organically from wordof mouth and referrals and it's
worked only because we'veprovided good service and we
haven't bled out, as we pick upnew contracts bled out clients
(10:00):
due to poor service.
We've been able to have a veryhigh retention rate.
Almost all our clients staywith us forever.
I mean we currently haveclients that were with me and
our largest client even was withme when I was a solopreneur,
you know back in the early, youknow in the 2000s, right or mid
2000s.
So the ability to retainclients, I think, has come from.
(10:21):
I remember when we got ourdocumentation platform, it Glue.
It was like outstanding for usto be able to document things
and be process driven, andhaving the process in place
allowed us to train team members, hire new people and give them
that toolkit to say, hey, thisis how you onboard your first
(10:42):
two weeks, your first month,this is where we're going to
start.
You train you, and then we'reable to retain those people in
our company because they grow.
Everybody wants to grow.
Growth is part of our corevalues as a company.
I'm in this only to learn.
To be honest, right, I lovelearning, I love talking to
people, I love the barconversations at these events,
because everybody has somethingto share and something to grow
(11:03):
and learn.
It's baked into our coreculture and so when we hire
people, we think about thatgrowth, that journey for that
individual.
Put them on that roadmap ofgrowth now, which is a bit more
mature, but even back then wehave to give them the tool sets,
the ability to build new skills, and then they stay with us for
a long period of time.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
This one makes me chuckle because I remember early
in the, not even that long ago,but your org design right, your
org chart has evolved over theyears.
Talk about how that.
You know what's happened.
What that, what's that?
What does that look like?
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I've been spoiled.
I've been spoiled in my lifewith all the people we have in
both my personal life and worklife and employees, with all the
people we have in both mypersonal life and work life and
employees.
We always hired really goodpeople, really smart people, and
people think about managementthat we must be good managers.
I'm the anti-manager, I don'tmicromanage, I just we got lucky
with hiring good people.
(11:58):
You give them a bunch of tasksand they do a great job.
So I was able to mostly getaway with having no management
or middle management, no leadersat all, except if somebody had
a question, they came to me,talked to me, we solved it
together and away you go.
But now we're at what?
25 people and I probably shouldhave done this a lot earlier
and in fact it was my peer groupmembers here through Enable
(12:21):
that really encouraged me to geta leadership team in place.
So we took a look at all thepeople we had and a few of them
got some additional roles and soin December no, in in the fall
of 2024 we finally established aleadership team, because it was
pretty much just me and a veryflat structure.
(12:41):
Now we have team leads and anddepartmental leads.
We hired a coach to lead usthrough that journey.
It's probably been one of thebest decisions we've made.
So, while we were lucky to havevery good people that got us
this far, now those same peopleare now getting additional
responsibility.
They get another opportunity togrow, just like I had an
(13:02):
opportunity to grow.
So, um, yeah, we're at thispoint exciting point in our
journey where now it's not justme thinking about the business,
thinking about the growth wherewe can get to.
There's a lot of otherindividuals in the organization
thinking about it, so it makesfor a much more exciting journey
.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
You talked about bringing that.
Building that leadership teamwas one of the biggest
inflection points on Red Rhinoand you mentioned a couple of
things that it's done for sortof the individuals, but how
about for the business?
What was sort of the state ofthe business pre-leadership team
?
And then how has that businessevolved?
(13:43):
What sort of the operationslook like and the efficiency,
everything like that?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
yeah, so um, when it comes to having a service
manager and we did have aservice manager for quite some
time um, the ability for peopleto be able to come up with
solutions that don't require myinput and they're able to
execute on it is so exciting tojust watch.
We just had our state of thecompany last week, so we have
this annual state of the companywhere we review how the last
(14:10):
year went and where we're going,and now in December, when we
had our annual planning session,it wasn't just me coming up
with what our new BHAG is goingto be, what our new vision is
going to be for the company.
There's seven of us gatheredaround that table thinking of
what that vision is going to be.
It makes for a more fleshed outvision, a more achievable
(14:31):
vision, but in some ways moreambitious than I might have come
up with myself.
And so, then, I'm so proud inour state of the company that I
just had 15 minutes of talkingtime.
The other 45 are other peoplewho are sharing the vision in
their departments and what theyaccomplished in the company over
the last year.
It gives other people, I think,the opportunity to think big as
(14:54):
well, which didn't exist beforebecause it was just the Brinder
show and so now it's really aRed Rhino as a team show and
it's a big inflection point forthat team.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
The state of the company.
That's interesting.
I've never heard you call itthat before.
I've seen teams do things likesales kickoffs or sort of a town
hall or whatever, but I'm surethere's a lot of folks listening
that don't have something likethat in place.
Can you talk about just theimpact that something like that
(15:28):
was?
Where did that come from?
Why did you want to have thisbig sort of session of sharing?
And then what has that done forthe company?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, we started this , I think, back in 2020 or 2021,
about five years ago is when wehad our first day of the
company and it was really kindof like necessity is the mother
of invention.
I had, you know, you thinkabout where the company can go
and I started to think biggerfor where the company could go
(15:56):
and I really needed a placewhere I could share that vision
but have an all-hands meetingwhere it's about that vision and
to also be proud of theachievements we made over the
year.
Like we don't often take timeto pat ourselves on the back to,
you know, dwell on our successit's always about solving the
next problem in our industry andto take a moment, reflect on
(16:20):
the year before.
So when we started that in 2020, it was pandemic year.
We were going through a bigchange.
We moved to a new office, butit was again thinking about
inflection points in our journey.
Things went to hell in ahandbasket and there's a lot of
(16:41):
uncertainty.
I had more than one employeecome to me in that first two
weeks of the pandemic like arewe going to have a job?
And I'm like I don't know, butI'll do the best I can.
Turned out surprisingly goodfor the IT industry.
But I didn't know it was goingto turn out that way, but it
necessitated that conversationwith the team to reflect, to
(17:01):
share our vision moving forwardnow that we had this additional
confidence about the resilienceof the IT industry and and then
we share our numbers prettyopenly for our revenue and and
such with the team so they couldsee our growth right, because
otherwise they just think aboutthe next ticket and the next
project they have to solve.
(17:21):
But what does it mean for us asa company?
Yes, we're growing people, butyou know, I think it's nice to
share even that element aboutthe business with the team so
that we can have a greateramount of yeah, just
transparency and culture.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
You just mentioned a little bit ago about sort of
some of those early clients thatyou brought on when you were a
solopreneur are still with youtoday.
Can you share some of theinsights of Red Rhino's success
and obviously the clientretention side, but also
building those sort of strong,long-lasting relationships?
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Relationships are king.
You have to serve people, youhave to serve your clients, you
serve your employees, you serveRed Rhino and the rest of it
falls into place.
And I'd always had that desireto serve and take care of people
.
I still do.
And when we're talking aboutthose clients, you know if
(18:18):
somebody calls you about CapeBrinder, my printer doesn't work
and it's.
You know.
This is like when I was asolopreneur.
But they're doing retail.
If their printer doesn't work,they can't print receipts and
the customer journey for them isinterrupted.
You show up and you take care ofthat, and that's a small micro
example, but you continue totake care of relationships over
a long period of time.
That's all people want.
People leave people.
(18:39):
Like you heard this inmanagement, people leave people.
But same thing is true forclients, right?
If you take care of the clientand serve them in the way they
need, don't give them a reasonto leave, and they're still with
you.
Up until recently we justrebranded, but up until recently
our tagline was ourrelationships have zero downtime
.
Because, yeah, technology willscrew up from time to time.
We're human beings.
We'll screw up from time totime, but we're gonna show up
(19:08):
and take care of things together.
If something happens that goessideways, your server fails.
I don't know whether you have aspare server ready to go.
I mean, we could talk aboutthat, but I know that we're
gonna be there to solve thatproblem alongside of you.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
That's great.
So you just mentioned therebrand.
Talk about how excited you areor what specifically excites you
about the new look and feel ofRed Rhino.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Wow.
Yes, when it comes toexcitement for the business in
general, every year I just getmore and more excited about it.
I love talking about it.
I'm one of those persons like,if you're hanging out with me,
I'm annoying because I onlyreally want to talk about the
business.
I don't care about sports, Idon't care about other things,
I'm a really boring person.
I just want to talk about nerdystuff.
(19:44):
So when it comes to Red Rhino, Imean, if we reflect back on
2010, when my wife and I weregetting serious about the
business and we're thinkingabout how to what to call it, as
we're getting serious, inspiredby Seth Godin and the Purple
Cow, we came up with the nameRed Rhino because it's unique.
(20:05):
You could hang some marketingoff of it, but it also
represented us, something thatis unique.
We knew we wanted to do ITdifferently and and strong, and
so when we rebranded now, wewanted those elements of
uniqueness to be front andcenter.
We're not trying to do IT likeeveryone else.
Yes, there's certain coreelements we are an MSP that are
(20:27):
similar, but how we do it isgoing to be unique, and so when
I'm looking at our brand, itdoesn't feel like anybody else's
.
It feels like us, it'sauthentic to us, we're friendly,
we're good at what we do, we'restrong, and now we can go into
the marketplace and have amodern look and feel, an
(20:48):
aesthetic that we're proud of,and it just needed a facelift
and an upgrade and, yeah, I'mreal proud of what they came up
with.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
That's very good.
Yeah, what advice would yougive, brenda, to someone that's
just starting out in the MSPspace, that's thinking about
doing what you did, oh, say, 15years or so ago, going out on
their own or starting somethingnew?
What advice would you givethose folks?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
A couple of things come to mind Know your strengths
and double down on them.
We have to fill in ourweaknesses, but double down on
our strengths, because that'swhat's going to separate you and
your organization.
In your organization, cultureis king.
People are king.
Numbers follow, but culture isking.
People are king.
Numbers follow, but culture isking.
Processes invest in processesand then talk to other people.
(21:37):
I think for me, when thingsreally started shifting was when
I started joining peer groupsand talking to other people.
Getting out onto you knowvarious conferences and and and
in-person peer group meetings,you actually end up talking to
other human beings who aresolving similar problems.
A you have somebody to sharethis journey with, because often
(21:57):
as an entrepreneur and in ourlife, where you know it can be a
lonely journey, you don't haveenough people who share the same
experience as business leaders.
So you get to have that elementof it.
But they're also solving thesame problems together and you
can share those ideas with themand the more openly I could
share that they could share backwith me and it it just created
(22:18):
some great friendships.
But it really was, in my opinion, the key to Red Rhinos growth,
because I'll always be thebottleneck in the business.
Right, I'm still the bottleneckin the business.
So the faster I can grow as ahuman being, as a business
leader, as as a coach to ouremployees, the faster the
business can grow.
So get out there, have moreconversations.
(22:40):
This community is great.
Everybody loves to shareawesome.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
how do you balance the demands of running a rapidly
growing MSP to maintaining ahealthy work-life balance?
And you have an amazing family.
I got to meet your wife andyour very young children just a
couple of months ago in one ofthe peer group meetings.
How do you balance that?
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I've gotten better at it.
There was no balance in theearly days Up until I had my
kids, my, my older daughter.
I've got two daughters.
My older daughter is five and ahalf, almost six now, so when
we had her, I started showing upat home for dinner every night,
like it's rare for me to worklate, and sometimes that happens
(23:24):
.
Before that there was nowork-life balance.
I just did what I needed to getdone and that was it.
Then there is a couple monthshere and there where you're
working, you know 80 hour weeks,and that's okay.
Now, um, I make sure that I'mhome for the kids, cause they're
, uh, the other priority in mylife.
They need to see me, um, and,and I want to see them, and
(23:45):
that's the other thing.
Like I, I'm as excited aboutthem as I am about the business.
So when I walk in the doorthey're running towards me, I'm
running towards them and likethere's no feeling like it right
, and and and and I feel thatsame excitement towards the
business, but it you need tohave that division of what's
important to you and to reflecton that and like, where are you
(24:08):
needed in life?
Right, and and and where areyou nourished in life because if
we run out of energy we're notserving anybody right.
And there were periods in mylife where I probably worked a
little bit too hard, didn't takecare of my health enough, and
and then you know you hit a walland then you crash and then the
business suffers.
(24:29):
Because you know, at the end ofthe day, if you're suffering,
the business is gonna suffer.
You have to invest in yourhealth.
You have to invest in thosepeople in your life that are
gonna replenish your energy yeah, so, brenda, what are your
goals and aspirations for thefuture of Red Rhino?
so we want to grow as a company.
(24:49):
I think we're at a good point,and the brand is just one
element of that change, but it'sreally and this is why I told
the team this is our stake inthe sand.
This is where we are creatingour own inflection point with
the team that we've created aleadership team, a new sales
(25:11):
team we launched last year.
We have I think we're at thedawn of the new red rhino.
We're at the beginning stageswhere we get to build this great
company.
That's, you know, one of thethe best msps in the country.
Um, where we'll end up, whoknows?
But I know that we've got agreat team where I know I have
the energy to grow this.
I'm excited about it.
I love showing up to work.
(25:32):
There's not a day where I don'twant to show up and so our goal
is to at least 10X this companyand do it in a way where we're
not giving up the culture of thecompany, how we take care of
our clients, in fact, doublingdown and making investments for
the long term, both incybersecurity but also in being
(25:53):
able to support our clients.
We're lucky to do what we do,and now, with this newfound era
of business transformation withautomation and AI.
You know, last 10 years havebeen spent scaring our clients
about cybersecurity andprotecting them.
That's a value proposition, butthat doesn't truly move their
business forward.
Like I hate sellingcybersecurity, I'm preventing
(26:14):
something bad from happening.
I want to make something goodhappen for the business.
With automation and AI andthese new technologies that are
hitting the market, we have thisability to go help our clients,
and especially small businessesand mid-sized businesses, and
turn them around and give themthe tool sets to succeed, create
(26:34):
more revenue, create moreopportunity for their employees.
So, yeah, we're lucky to be inthis era of the MSP industry and
I'm excited about what we cando for our clients in that space
.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
You just started to share a couple of the sort of
things you're seeing in thefuture.
I know you like to travel to alot of events.
We're at an event you know thisweek that you're going to hear
some other things.
What are you most excited aboutfor the future of the sort of
MSP industry and the evolutionright what do you see?
(27:07):
You talked a little bit aboutcybersecurity.
You know that was the thingthat everybody had built their
business around or is buildingtheir business around, but
there's some new things on thehorizon.
What are you most excited about?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, there's a lot of change in our industry right
now, mostly because AI andautomation and change creates
opportunity.
Organizations that have a goodteam and a forward-looking
mindset will start separatingthemselves from the average MSPs
that don't invest in their owntechnology, and so I think that
(27:40):
is exciting for us as a business, but also the space.
The space has become so matureover the last 10 years, both
from the tooling, the ecosystem,the learning from each other,
like how to do an MSP, has kindof been solved.
You can go ask somebody andthey'll give you the blueprint.
But now we're at this pointwhere we don't know what the
future MSP is going to look like.
There's a period of uncertaintyand there's a few leaders and
(28:06):
marketplace vendors that aregoing to have to create that
future.
And that uncertainty createsexcitement for us, for people
like me.
Like I don't know what thefuture is, but I get to be a
part of it and I got to learnalong the way, I get to grow.
I mean, at the end of the day,all businesses is, you know, for
me a crucible in which I get toforge myself and and so that
(28:27):
learning personally is exciting,but then as a business, it's
really about bringing thatchange and that opportunity due
to the volatility in the techspace to our clients and serve
them.
And I mean that's the excitingopportunity to translate that.
I mean that's what we've beendoing as technology partners
(28:49):
ever since Windows NT is likehow do we bring that new
technology into a business andserve them?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And so now that there's more new technology, we
get to do it again and it's astepwise function change All
right, Brenda, talk a little bitabout the importance of
compliance on the Red Rhinobusiness and really the
challenges that you guys havefaced and really building sort
of compliance-related services.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah.
So I'm up in Canada, I'm justoutside of Vancouver, bc.
In Canada compliance isn't asbig as it is in the US.
In the US very American of youyou guys like to wield a pretty
big hammer for compliance, andeven here it could be better.
(29:36):
But in Canada we just askpolitely like please don't hack
us.
But when those things do occur,there's very little enforcement
mechanisms around, whether it'sbig companies, low companies,
to comply to a certaincybersecurity standard, whether
it's big companies, lowcompanies, to comply to a
certain cybersecurity standard.
But I find that in my one-on-onedialogues with my clients that
(29:57):
appetite for compliance and formaturing cybersecurity to a best
practice standard is changing.
And now we're both forourselves as an organization,
going down the compliancejourney, whether it's CIS or SOC
, you know to have some amountof validation but then also be
able to have a more interestingconversation with the client,
(30:19):
say, hey, we're gonna align youto this baseline standard.
This is mmm, think of it like amini CIS.
But what you really ought to dois say, hey, this is
cybersecurity is journey, andlet's put you down the CIS
journey and build out thatcompliance framework.
I think that's the future.
Until regulations in thecountry catch up, and they
(30:39):
inevitably will.
European Union has done it, ushas done it, canada will
ultimately follow suit and do itas well, and so we're preparing
for that future, and that alsoaligns with our vision of
serving our clients.
You have to do it right.
If we don't do it, we're notserving the clients.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Awesome Brinder.
The final question I alwayslike to ask guests on the on the
podcast is when did you know?
Now that's it.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
I would say, uh, that when, back in, uh, about six
years ago, it was my 40thbirthday, my wife surprised me
with a big trip out to SouthAfrica, I was gone for almost
three weeks and for a guy whowent 10 years not taking a
vacation beyond a three-hourdrive time to be able to go away
(31:28):
and the business ran without me, no big surprises.
There were a couple problems andthey solved them without me to
have that team in place and wewere a lot smaller then but
really knew we were on tosomething, that we were building
a business.
It is not just an extension ofmyself, it was.
It was really created an amountof freedom for myself and for
(31:54):
my family that we didn't havebefore, and it was exciting for
me to know that the team couldtake care of it and they had the
confidence to do it without meand I had the confidence in them
, and so since that point, Idon't think we've ever looked
back and I fully trust the team.
They trust me and it's it was.
(32:14):
It was a big turning point forus.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
That's amazing.
Brinder, I can't thank youenough for being part of this.
It's always a pleasure to haveconversation with you and hear
about all the exciting changesin your life and in in the
business.
I wish you and the Red Rhinoteam the absolute best of luck
and thanks so much.
Thank you appreciate having me.
One, two, three, four , I think.
If I really reflect on it backthen I thought a lot smaller
than I think now.
You know, with competency, ourconfidence grows and with a
little bit of success you'reable to think a bit bigger.
We think a lot bigger now and Ithink a lot bigger now than I
would have at that time.
Relationships are king.
You have to serve people, youhave to serve your clients, you
(00:24):
serve your employees, you serveRed Rhino, and the rest of it
falls into place.
Welcome to Now.
That's it.
Stories of MSP Success, where wedive into the journeys of some
of the trailblazers in ourindustry to find out how they
used their passion fortechnology to help turn managed
services into the thrivingsector it is today into the
thriving sector it is today, allright, good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I'm excited to have the owner of Red Rhino, mr
Berender Hans, here.
Welcome.
Welcome to the Now that's it.
Podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Oh, it's a pleasure I tell you what.
We've known each other for along time and you've been on my
list of folks to try to get hereto really tell your story.
I think you have an amazingstory.
I think you there's gonna be alot of folks listening to this
podcast that actually can relateto where you are today and
where you've been over the lastseveral years.
So why don't we start off witheverybody and just tell a little
(01:14):
bit of your backstory, rightStarting off?
So I remember when we talkedlast.
You've been in school for awhile.
You were a non-traditionalstudent, as I like to call them,
several years, right, and thenyou got a job working in IT, but
then you said I want to dosomething different.
Talk a little bit about thoseearly days.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
While I was going to university I found a job, local
computer company, worked therein the summers, took a year off,
worked there, et cetera, andultimately, even after I I
graduated which I was tellingyou like took eight years to do
my four-year degree because Iended up taking every philosophy
, every arch, every other courseother than my computer courses
I needed to take.
And when I ultimately finishedI just still stayed with that
(01:56):
company.
I really liked working thereand then at some point I decided
that you know what I might beable to do this on my own.
I'm not sure what I wasthinking at that time on
hindsight, but I called my wife,who I was at the time my fiance
.
She was in India doing weddingshopping and we were gonna get
married.
I'm like, hey, hon, I think.
(02:17):
I think I'm gonna quit and tryto do this for myself.
And she's like is that a idea?
And we were both young and dumbenough to think it was.
And that's how I startedfreelancing.
I did freelancing for quitesome time.
I think it was like nine yearsor so that I was solo
freelancing and doing randomthings.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Talk about when you were just an IT tech.
What was the type of work thatyou were doing and what was
going through your mind that youwere doing and what, like what
was going through your mind thatthat maybe instigated you
saying I feel like I could dothis better if I was on my own
yeah, it was all break fix work.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
At that time it was a standard.
You know, uh, computer retailervar, a lot of home-based
customers and then businesscustomers.
But the home base was alreadydrying up and getting
commoditized by then, and sowhen I ventured off on my own in
2005, what I could see is thatthere was this transition
towards the real need inbusiness to have IT people be
(03:18):
more proactive, more progressive, and that's all I knew.
And also the way we were doingthings wasn't always using the
latest and greatest technologyavailable to us to solve some of
those problems.
So I figured I could give it atry.
In the early days.
I would say and people ask methis question like you know,
what did you dream of becoming?
And things like that I think,if I really reflect on it back
(03:40):
then, I thought a lot smallerthan I think now.
You know, with competency, ourconfidence grows and with a
little bit of success, you'reable to think a bit bigger.
We think a lot bigger now and Ithink a lot bigger now than I
would have at that time.
I think, if you asked me backin 2005 when I started
freelancing, or even the 2010when I got more serious about it
and and we started off ourjourney as Red Rhino, I would
(04:04):
have said, you know, creating asmall business where it can pay
a few bills all right, goodmorning.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I'm excited to have the owner of Red Rhino, mr
Brenda Hans, here.
How welcome.
Welcome to the now that's itpodcast here.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
That's when.
So I used to the company I usedto work for.
The owner was always my friendand my mentor.
So in 2014, I was actually ableto buy his company from him
because he was winding down andretiring, and so when that's how
I got my first employee and afew other contracts, and from
there on, that's when we reallystarted out a second employee
(04:40):
and a third employee.
So I always want to just createa little company that could pay
a few bills, and but then, youknow, one foot in front of the
other and, next thing, you know,our ambitions keep growing.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
What types of services were were you offering
early on there and and what sortof clients were you servicing?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
A lot of break fix, a lot of break fix.
We did start using RMMs fromday one.
We were on a PSA from day one.
But all the clients werebreak-fix, reactive work and
that was common back then.
But the MSP space was in placeand I would take some of those
elements of hey, let's sell anessential package.
(05:19):
I remember the first fullymanaged deal I got.
It was one of my clients and Iwent and talked, went and talked
to him like hey, how about weturn this into predictable
revenue?
Because you, I'm reading allthe blogs, I'm getting excited
about this MSP journey and thisMSP space, what was still felt
early at that time, but itprobably realistically wasn't.
And then I went and talked tohim and I'm like here's how much
(05:39):
we can do for you if you justpay this fixed monthly fee.
And he said, yes, and it was$40 a seat, yeah, just giving it
away.
But I mean, a lot of us startedthat way that's great.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
So you know, early on , though, even before you
started your own company, yousaw the, the predictability, the
proactiveness.
But you start, you, you.
You started the company on whatyou knew best, which which is
break-fix and project work, andyou did that sort of freelance
work for a period of time.
And then, at some point in time, you took a gamble and you gave
something away, which is likewhat most of us had done at some
(06:15):
point in time.
And then how did that client,that $40 a month seat, how did
that pan out?
Did you realize quickly?
I'm underwater on this.
Did it give you enoughconfidence for you to continue
to evolve that service offering?
How did that work?
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, it was actually a great decision, I will say.
You know, sure, it was $40 aseat, but I had no overhead, I
was building computers on mydining table and I had no rent,
no, any other expenses, justsome minimal technology expenses
.
And while it was cheap at thetime it did give me confidence
that there's an appetite for it.
And then the next one you sellis at $50, the next one you sell
(06:51):
is $60.
And it just rises from thereand I think I was like $75 an
hour until for a very longperiod of time for my hourly
rate and just it does give youthe confidence.
But what was clear at that timewas people needed that
proactive care which I thinkthat need only grew with
technology and the way thingsare.
I mean, everybody knows the MSPspace because cybersecurity is
(07:13):
one of those things that overthe last 10 years that risk has
only grown for business.
Talking to clients, thecybersecurity concerns and risk
made it easier to sell, that'sgreat Right.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
You just mentioned a little bit ago about your first
employee.
It took you 10 years to hirethat first employee right.
Why so long, and what was itthat made you realize I got to
pull the trigger and I got tobring somebody else in for some
help.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, going from zero to one I think is the hardest
from an employee perspective.
It was something I alwayswanted, but it's hard to selling
is hard.
Being an MSP that starts fromnothing to grow to something I
think is really challenging, andit was for me.
When you have only X amount ofdollars you're making, you can
(08:04):
turn that over and give it tosomebody else and, like all of
us, sold shit really cheap backthen, right, and you can turn it
over and give it to somebodyelse and you have almost nothing
left.
It's tough to make thattransition, knowing that you
don't know when your next clientis going to come from.
I'm not a sales background kindof person.
It's something that we growinto over a period of time and
(08:26):
back then when I was looking forthat first employee, you need
them because I I mean, for 10years I didn't take a vacation
further than a three-hourdriving distance, right, and I
knew I needed somebody.
But they need to be good.
They almost need to be aunicorn, like we are, that can
handle a lot of different things, including sales, including
(08:48):
that upsell.
Hey, this is how you solveproblems.
You need architect, but youalso be able to crawl under
desks and install computers andprinters.
It's tough to find that firstperson, it's tough to have
enough revenue for that person.
But when I did take over thatexisting client base from my
friend, that's when we couldafford to have that first
employee and then soon afterthat second employee as well.
(09:09):
And I'm proud to say that thatfirst employee stuck with us for
the majority of Red Rhino'slife, up until about two years
ago.
And employee number two isstill with us and he's head of
our professional services now,that's fantastic, Berndur.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
So let's talk about building that team out.
Right, you just mentioned youhired number one, number two
you're quite a bit larger thanthat.
Now what have been those sortof?
What have been the biggestchallenges, or what was the
biggest challenge building thatteam out?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Sales is always the number one challenge and I think
we still struggle with that Alot better at it now we have a
sales team, but most of ourjourney as Red Rhino, the growth
, has come organically from wordof mouth and referrals and it's
worked only because we'veprovided good service and we
haven't bled out, as we pick upnew contracts bled out clients
(10:00):
due to poor service.
We've been able to have a veryhigh retention rate.
Almost all our clients staywith us forever.
I mean we currently haveclients that were with me and
our largest client even was withme when I was a solopreneur,
you know back in the early, youknow in the 2000s, right or mid
2000s.
So the ability to retainclients, I think, has come from.
(10:21):
I remember when we got ourdocumentation platform, it Glue.
It was like outstanding for usto be able to document things
and be process driven, andhaving the process in place
allowed us to train team members, hire new people and give them
that toolkit to say, hey, thisis how you onboard your first
(10:42):
two weeks, your first month,this is where we're going to
start.
You train you, and then we'reable to retain those people in
our company because they grow.
Everybody wants to grow.
Growth is part of our corevalues as a company.
I'm in this only to learn.
To be honest, right, I lovelearning, I love talking to
people, I love the barconversations at these events,
because everybody has somethingto share and something to grow
(11:03):
and learn.
It's baked into our coreculture and so when we hire
people, we think about thatgrowth, that journey for that
individual.
Put them on that roadmap ofgrowth now, which is a bit more
mature, but even back then wehave to give them the tool sets,
the ability to build new skills, and then they stay with us for
a long period of time.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
This one makes me chuckle because I remember early
in the, not even that long ago,but your org design right, your
org chart has evolved over theyears.
Talk about how that.
You know what's happened.
What that, what's that?
What does that look like?
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I've been spoiled.
I've been spoiled in my lifewith all the people we have in
both my personal life and worklife and employees, with all the
people we have in both mypersonal life and work life and
employees.
We always hired really goodpeople, really smart people, and
people think about managementthat we must be good managers.
I'm the anti-manager, I don'tmicromanage, I just we got lucky
with hiring good people.
(11:58):
You give them a bunch of tasksand they do a great job.
So I was able to mostly getaway with having no management
or middle management, no leadersat all, except if somebody had
a question, they came to me,talked to me, we solved it
together and away you go.
But now we're at what?
25 people and I probably shouldhave done this a lot earlier
and in fact it was my peer groupmembers here through Enable
(12:21):
that really encouraged me to geta leadership team in place.
So we took a look at all thepeople we had and a few of them
got some additional roles and soin December no, in in the fall
of 2024 we finally established aleadership team, because it was
pretty much just me and a veryflat structure.
(12:41):
Now we have team leads and anddepartmental leads.
We hired a coach to lead usthrough that journey.
It's probably been one of thebest decisions we've made.
So, while we were lucky to havevery good people that got us
this far, now those same peopleare now getting additional
responsibility.
They get another opportunity togrow, just like I had an
(13:02):
opportunity to grow.
So, um, yeah, we're at thispoint exciting point in our
journey where now it's not justme thinking about the business,
thinking about the growth wherewe can get to.
There's a lot of otherindividuals in the organization
thinking about it, so it makesfor a much more exciting journey
.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
You talked about bringing that.
Building that leadership teamwas one of the biggest
inflection points on Red Rhinoand you mentioned a couple of
things that it's done for sortof the individuals, but how
about for the business?
What was sort of the state ofthe business pre-leadership team
?
And then how has that businessevolved?
(13:43):
What sort of the operationslook like and the efficiency,
everything like that?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
yeah, so um, when it comes to having a service
manager and we did have aservice manager for quite some
time um, the ability for peopleto be able to come up with
solutions that don't require myinput and they're able to
execute on it is so exciting tojust watch.
We just had our state of thecompany last week, so we have
this annual state of the companywhere we review how the last
(14:10):
year went and where we're going,and now in December, when we
had our annual planning session,it wasn't just me coming up
with what our new BHAG is goingto be, what our new vision is
going to be for the company.
There's seven of us gatheredaround that table thinking of
what that vision is going to be.
It makes for a more fleshed outvision, a more achievable
(14:31):
vision, but in some ways moreambitious than I might have come
up with myself.
And so, then, I'm so proud inour state of the company that I
just had 15 minutes of talkingtime.
The other 45 are other peoplewho are sharing the vision in
their departments and what theyaccomplished in the company over
the last year.
It gives other people, I think,the opportunity to think big as
(14:54):
well, which didn't exist beforebecause it was just the Brinder
show and so now it's really aRed Rhino as a team show and
it's a big inflection point forthat team.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
The state of the company.
That's interesting.
I've never heard you call itthat before.
I've seen teams do things likesales kickoffs or sort of a town
hall or whatever, but I'm surethere's a lot of folks listening
that don't have something likethat in place.
Can you talk about just theimpact that something like that
(15:28):
was?
Where did that come from?
Why did you want to have thisbig sort of session of sharing?
And then what has that done forthe company?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, we started this , I think, back in 2020 or 2021,
about five years ago is when wehad our first day of the
company and it was really kindof like necessity is the mother
of invention.
I had, you know, you thinkabout where the company can go
and I started to think biggerfor where the company could go
(15:56):
and I really needed a placewhere I could share that vision
but have an all-hands meetingwhere it's about that vision and
to also be proud of theachievements we made over the
year.
Like we don't often take timeto pat ourselves on the back to,
you know, dwell on our successit's always about solving the
next problem in our industry andto take a moment, reflect on
(16:20):
the year before.
So when we started that in 2020, it was pandemic year.
We were going through a bigchange.
We moved to a new office, butit was again thinking about
inflection points in our journey.
Things went to hell in ahandbasket and there's a lot of
(16:41):
uncertainty.
I had more than one employeecome to me in that first two
weeks of the pandemic like arewe going to have a job?
And I'm like I don't know, butI'll do the best I can.
Turned out surprisingly goodfor the IT industry.
But I didn't know it was goingto turn out that way, but it
necessitated that conversationwith the team to reflect, to
(17:01):
share our vision moving forwardnow that we had this additional
confidence about the resilienceof the IT industry and and then
we share our numbers prettyopenly for our revenue and and
such with the team so they couldsee our growth right, because
otherwise they just think aboutthe next ticket and the next
project they have to solve.
(17:21):
But what does it mean for us asa company?
Yes, we're growing people, butyou know, I think it's nice to
share even that element aboutthe business with the team so
that we can have a greateramount of yeah, just
transparency and culture.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
You just mentioned a little bit ago about sort of
some of those early clients thatyou brought on when you were a
solopreneur are still with youtoday.
Can you share some of theinsights of Red Rhino's success
and obviously the clientretention side, but also
building those sort of strong,long-lasting relationships?
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Relationships are king.
You have to serve people, youhave to serve your clients, you
serve your employees, you serveRed Rhino and the rest of it
falls into place.
And I'd always had that desireto serve and take care of people
.
I still do.
And when we're talking aboutthose clients, you know if
(18:18):
somebody calls you about CapeBrinder, my printer doesn't work
and it's.
You know.
This is like when I was asolopreneur.
But they're doing retail.
If their printer doesn't work,they can't print receipts and
the customer journey for them isinterrupted.
You show up and you take care ofthat, and that's a small micro
example, but you continue totake care of relationships over
a long period of time.
That's all people want.
People leave people.
(18:39):
Like you heard this inmanagement, people leave people.
But same thing is true forclients, right?
If you take care of the clientand serve them in the way they
need, don't give them a reasonto leave, and they're still with
you.
Up until recently we justrebranded, but up until recently
our tagline was ourrelationships have zero downtime
.
Because, yeah, technology willscrew up from time to time.
We're human beings.
We'll screw up from time totime, but we're gonna show up
(19:08):
and take care of things together.
If something happens that goessideways, your server fails.
I don't know whether you have aspare server ready to go.
I mean, we could talk aboutthat, but I know that we're
gonna be there to solve thatproblem alongside of you.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
That's great.
So you just mentioned therebrand.
Talk about how excited you areor what specifically excites you
about the new look and feel ofRed Rhino.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Wow.
Yes, when it comes toexcitement for the business in
general, every year I just getmore and more excited about it.
I love talking about it.
I'm one of those persons like,if you're hanging out with me,
I'm annoying because I onlyreally want to talk about the
business.
I don't care about sports, Idon't care about other things,
I'm a really boring person.
I just want to talk about nerdystuff.
(19:44):
So when it comes to Red Rhino, Imean, if we reflect back on
2010, when my wife and I weregetting serious about the
business and we're thinkingabout how to what to call it, as
we're getting serious, inspiredby Seth Godin and the Purple
Cow, we came up with the nameRed Rhino because it's unique.
(20:05):
You could hang some marketingoff of it, but it also
represented us, something thatis unique.
We knew we wanted to do ITdifferently and and strong, and
so when we rebranded now, wewanted those elements of
uniqueness to be front andcenter.
We're not trying to do IT likeeveryone else.
Yes, there's certain coreelements we are an MSP that are
(20:27):
similar, but how we do it isgoing to be unique, and so when
I'm looking at our brand, itdoesn't feel like anybody else's
.
It feels like us, it'sauthentic to us, we're friendly,
we're good at what we do, we'restrong, and now we can go into
the marketplace and have amodern look and feel, an
(20:48):
aesthetic that we're proud of,and it just needed a facelift
and an upgrade and, yeah, I'mreal proud of what they came up
with.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
That's very good.
Yeah, what advice would yougive, brenda, to someone that's
just starting out in the MSPspace, that's thinking about
doing what you did, oh, say, 15years or so ago, going out on
their own or starting somethingnew?
What advice would you givethose folks?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
A couple of things come to mind Know your strengths
and double down on them.
We have to fill in ourweaknesses, but double down on
our strengths, because that'swhat's going to separate you and
your organization.
In your organization, cultureis king.
People are king.
Numbers follow, but culture isking.
People are king.
Numbers follow, but culture isking.
Processes invest in processesand then talk to other people.
(21:37):
I think for me, when thingsreally started shifting was when
I started joining peer groupsand talking to other people.
Getting out onto you knowvarious conferences and and and
in-person peer group meetings,you actually end up talking to
other human beings who aresolving similar problems.
A you have somebody to sharethis journey with, because often
(21:57):
as an entrepreneur and in ourlife, where you know it can be a
lonely journey, you don't haveenough people who share the same
experience as business leaders.
So you get to have that elementof it.
But they're also solving thesame problems together and you
can share those ideas with themand the more openly I could
share that they could share backwith me and it it just created
(22:18):
some great friendships.
But it really was, in my opinion, the key to Red Rhinos growth,
because I'll always be thebottleneck in the business.
Right, I'm still the bottleneckin the business.
So the faster I can grow as ahuman being, as a business
leader, as as a coach to ouremployees, the faster the
business can grow.
So get out there, have moreconversations.
(22:40):
This community is great.
Everybody loves to shareawesome.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
how do you balance the demands of running a rapidly
growing MSP to maintaining ahealthy work-life balance?
And you have an amazing family.
I got to meet your wife andyour very young children just a
couple of months ago in one ofthe peer group meetings.
How do you balance that?
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I've gotten better at it.
There was no balance in theearly days Up until I had my
kids, my, my older daughter.
I've got two daughters.
My older daughter is five and ahalf, almost six now, so when
we had her, I started showing upat home for dinner every night,
like it's rare for me to worklate, and sometimes that happens
(23:24):
.
Before that there was nowork-life balance.
I just did what I needed to getdone and that was it.
Then there is a couple monthshere and there where you're
working, you know 80 hour weeks,and that's okay.
Now, um, I make sure that I'mhome for the kids, cause they're
, uh, the other priority in mylife.
They need to see me, um, and,and I want to see them, and
(23:45):
that's the other thing.
Like I, I'm as excited aboutthem as I am about the business.
So when I walk in the doorthey're running towards me, I'm
running towards them and likethere's no feeling like it right
, and and and and I feel thatsame excitement towards the
business, but it you need tohave that division of what's
important to you and to reflecton that and like, where are you
(24:08):
needed in life?
Right, and and and where areyou nourished in life because if
we run out of energy we're notserving anybody right.
And there were periods in mylife where I probably worked a
little bit too hard, didn't takecare of my health enough, and
and then you know you hit a walland then you crash and then the
business suffers.
(24:29):
Because you know, at the end ofthe day, if you're suffering,
the business is gonna suffer.
You have to invest in yourhealth.
You have to invest in thosepeople in your life that are
gonna replenish your energy yeah, so, brenda, what are your
goals and aspirations for thefuture of Red Rhino?
so we want to grow as a company.
(24:49):
I think we're at a good point,and the brand is just one
element of that change, but it'sreally and this is why I told
the team this is our stake inthe sand.
This is where we are creatingour own inflection point with
the team that we've created aleadership team, a new sales
(25:11):
team we launched last year.
We have I think we're at thedawn of the new red rhino.
We're at the beginning stageswhere we get to build this great
company.
That's, you know, one of thethe best msps in the country.
Um, where we'll end up, whoknows?
But I know that we've got agreat team where I know I have
the energy to grow this.
I'm excited about it.
I love showing up to work.
(25:32):
There's not a day where I don'twant to show up and so our goal
is to at least 10X this companyand do it in a way where we're
not giving up the culture of thecompany, how we take care of
our clients, in fact, doublingdown and making investments for
the long term, both incybersecurity but also in being
(25:53):
able to support our clients.
We're lucky to do what we do,and now, with this newfound era
of business transformation withautomation and AI.
You know, last 10 years havebeen spent scaring our clients
about cybersecurity andprotecting them.
That's a value proposition, butthat doesn't truly move their
business forward.
Like I hate sellingcybersecurity, I'm preventing
(26:14):
something bad from happening.
I want to make something goodhappen for the business.
With automation and AI andthese new technologies that are
hitting the market, we have thisability to go help our clients,
and especially small businessesand mid-sized businesses, and
turn them around and give themthe tool sets to succeed, create
(26:34):
more revenue, create moreopportunity for their employees.
So, yeah, we're lucky to be inthis era of the MSP industry and
I'm excited about what we cando for our clients in that space
.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
You just started to share a couple of the sort of
things you're seeing in thefuture.
I know you like to travel to alot of events.
We're at an event you know thisweek that you're going to hear
some other things.
What are you most excited aboutfor the future of the sort of
MSP industry and the evolutionright what do you see?
(27:07):
You talked a little bit aboutcybersecurity.
You know that was the thingthat everybody had built their
business around or is buildingtheir business around, but
there's some new things on thehorizon.
What are you most excited about?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, there's a lot of change in our industry right
now, mostly because AI andautomation and change creates
opportunity.
Organizations that have a goodteam and a forward-looking
mindset will start separatingthemselves from the average MSPs
that don't invest in their owntechnology, and so I think that
(27:40):
is exciting for us as a business, but also the space.
The space has become so matureover the last 10 years, both
from the tooling, the ecosystem,the learning from each other,
like how to do an MSP, has kindof been solved.
You can go ask somebody andthey'll give you the blueprint.
But now we're at this pointwhere we don't know what the
future MSP is going to look like.
There's a period of uncertaintyand there's a few leaders and
(28:06):
marketplace vendors that aregoing to have to create that
future.
And that uncertainty createsexcitement for us, for people
like me.
Like I don't know what thefuture is, but I get to be a
part of it and I got to learnalong the way, I get to grow.
I mean, at the end of the day,all businesses is, you know, for
me a crucible in which I get toforge myself and and so that
(28:27):
learning personally is exciting,but then as a business, it's
really about bringing thatchange and that opportunity due
to the volatility in the techspace to our clients and serve
them.
And I mean that's the excitingopportunity to translate that.
I mean that's what we've beendoing as technology partners
(28:49):
ever since Windows NT is likehow do we bring that new
technology into a business andserve them?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And so now that there's more new technology, we
get to do it again and it's astepwise function change All
right, Brenda, talk a little bitabout the importance of
compliance on the Red Rhinobusiness and really the
challenges that you guys havefaced and really building sort
of compliance-related services.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah.
So I'm up in Canada, I'm justoutside of Vancouver, bc.
In Canada compliance isn't asbig as it is in the US.
In the US very American of youyou guys like to wield a pretty
big hammer for compliance, andeven here it could be better.
(29:36):
But in Canada we just askpolitely like please don't hack
us.
But when those things do occur,there's very little enforcement
mechanisms around, whether it'sbig companies, low companies,
to comply to a certaincybersecurity standard, whether
it's big companies, lowcompanies, to comply to a
certain cybersecurity standard.
But I find that in my one-on-onedialogues with my clients that
(29:57):
appetite for compliance and formaturing cybersecurity to a best
practice standard is changing.
And now we're both forourselves as an organization,
going down the compliancejourney, whether it's CIS or SOC
, you know to have some amountof validation but then also be
able to have a more interestingconversation with the client,
(30:19):
say, hey, we're gonna align youto this baseline standard.
This is mmm, think of it like amini CIS.
But what you really ought to dois say, hey, this is
cybersecurity is journey, andlet's put you down the CIS
journey and build out thatcompliance framework.
I think that's the future.
Until regulations in thecountry catch up, and they
(30:39):
inevitably will.
European Union has done it, ushas done it, canada will
ultimately follow suit and do itas well, and so we're preparing
for that future, and that alsoaligns with our vision of
serving our clients.
You have to do it right.
If we don't do it, we're notserving the clients.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Awesome Brinder.
The final question I alwayslike to ask guests on the on the
podcast is when did you know?
Now that's it.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
I would say, uh, that when, back in, uh, about six
years ago, it was my 40thbirthday, my wife surprised me
with a big trip out to SouthAfrica, I was gone for almost
three weeks and for a guy whowent 10 years not taking a
vacation beyond a three-hourdrive time to be able to go away
(31:28):
and the business ran without me, no big surprises.
There were a couple problems andthey solved them without me to
have that team in place and wewere a lot smaller then but
really knew we were on tosomething, that we were building
a business.
It is not just an extension ofmyself, it was.
It was really created an amountof freedom for myself and for
(31:54):
my family that we didn't havebefore, and it was exciting for
me to know that the team couldtake care of it and they had the
confidence to do it without meand I had the confidence in them
, and so since that point, Idon't think we've ever looked
back and I fully trust the team.
They trust me and it's it was.
(32:14):
It was a big turning point forus.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
That's amazing.
Brinder, I can't thank youenough for being part of this.
It's always a pleasure to haveconversation with you and hear
about all the exciting changesin your life and in in the
business.
I wish you and the Red Rhinoteam the absolute best of luck
and thanks so much.
Thank you appreciate having me.
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