June 5, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode of Now That’s IT: Stories of MSP Success, host Chris Massey sits down with Craig Fisher and David Izen of Technica Solutions to uncover how a chance meeting—and a well-timed kebab—sparked a complete transformation of their MSP business.
Craig and David share how they moved beyond the limitations of a technical-first approach to build a thriving, growth-driven MSP. They dive into the hard decisions, including shedding old habits, embracing EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System), joining peer groups, and making bold moves to scale their business.
Listeners will gain insights into:
- Why purely technical focus limits growth and how to shift to a strategic mindset
- How EOS provided the structure and accountability to drive transformation
- The role of peer groups and industry connections in fueling business growth
- Key takeaways for MSP owners and leaders navigating today’s challenges
Whether you’re an MSP veteran or just starting out, Craig and David’s story is a testament to the power of partnership, resilience, and smart business strategy.
Tune in to discover how Technica turned a near-stagnation into an inspiring success story—and why “it takes two” to truly transform.
Let us help you unlock your business's full potential.
N-able Business Transformation is Expert led and Peer informed.These valuable executive programs are tailored to provide effective guidance and a faster path to a scalable and successful business.
Book a Call with Chris Massey now to learn what Business Transformation can do for you!
'Now that's it: Stories of MSP Success,' dives into the journeys of some of the trailblazers in our industry to find out how they used their passion for technology to help turn Managed Services into the thriving sector it is today.
Every episode is packed with the valuable insights, practical strategies, and inspiring anecdotes that lead our guests to the transformative moment when they knew….. Now, that's it.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
One, two, three, four .
The infrastructure that theyhad put in and the systems that
they had in place could supporta company five times the size
that they were.
And we were just chatting aboutthe sales and Sir David turned
around and said you should joinus as a partner and I had had a
previous partner.
It went belly up.
I had sworn to myself that Iwould never get into business
(00:24):
with anyone else.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Is there just a maturity that every MSP has to
go through, or has the businessactually changed over the last
sort of 25, 26 years?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Welcome to Now that's it stories of MSP success,
where we dive into the journeysof some of the trailblazers in
our industry to find out howthey used their passion for
technology to help turn managedservices into the thriving
sector it is today.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Born into the shadow of success.
Craig Fisher was making a namefor himself before he was even
20.
But that all came to ascreeching halt.
Then entered David Enson and akebab, a few more struggles and
a trip to Texas that would turnthings around.
This should be a very funconversation.
I've been looking forward tothis one all week.
(01:13):
I'm excited to welcome to theNow that's it podcast Craig
Fisher and David Eisen ofTechnica Solutions.
Welcome, thank you for havingus.
This is special.
I'm glad I've got both of you,because I always tend to corner
one of you and ask you aquestion and then when I go and
talk to the other one, I get adifferent answer.
So now I've got you both oncamera.
(01:34):
This is going to be a truthserum Street fight.
Yeah, this is going to be fun.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
My answers are always the wrong ones.
Just so that you know.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I remember a time it wasn't, and you pointed that out
in front of the entire group ofindividuals, so maybe we'll
tell that story as well.
So let's go on the way backmachine, as I like to call it,
with the Now that's it podcast.
So that means, before you twomet, let's start with you, craig
.
Your background's nottechnology, and early on you
(02:02):
witnessed great success, butthat led to a lot of pressure
and expectations.
You talk a little bit aboutyour early career.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I was in the fashion industry.
I left school at 16, 17.
My grandfather had been in ityears before and he sold his
company in the 70s for 7 million, which back then was a lot of
money.
Um, and trying to follow in hisfootsteps put a lot of pressure
on me.
Only put that pressure on by me.
(02:32):
No one else was putting it on,um, and so I was desperate to
try and replicate his success.
By the time I was like 19 or 20, uh, and it was only um years
afterwards where people told methat he only made it when he was
about 45.
So it led to some pretty darktimes trying to put that
pressure on myself.
(02:52):
So it did collapse a little bit, but yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Well, I'm glad you were able to make that through
that.
I know a lot of earlysuccessful or at least people
that have been identified asmaybe prodigies or successful in
a certain business feel likethey constantly have to be doing
more, and so I can only imaginewhat that felt like.
I can't imagine it today,because I know who you are today
(03:18):
and you're very positive, veryoutgoing, but I'm really glad
you've been able to get throughthose early times so you find
your way into a small marketingagency and then over a kebab
with David.
But let's first catch up, david.
What was Technica Solutionslike before you met Craig?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Certainly very much focused on the technical, not so
much focused on the sales side.
I think, like an awful lot ofsmaller MSPs, it was just a fun
business.
You know it was a number ofguys that just enjoyed fixing
things and the business greworganically and was just great
fun to be in.
And then there just comes thatpoint where you realize if you
(04:05):
want to do more than that,you've kind of got to grow up a
bit, which is a little bit sadbut a little bit mature as well.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Like most MSPs, sort of starting out, you only know
what you know, right, you'redoing things the way that you
feel is best.
It's not like there's a book onhow to build an MSP.
You can read all the businessbooks you want in your life, but
to figure out how do I makethis work, that's hard.
And so you were doing somethingearly that you saw isn't going
(04:33):
to scale, and maybe you lookedat the team and you said this
isn't the team that's going tohelp us scale.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, no, exactly, is it?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Is that exactly how it happened?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
There was definitely a piece missing.
Whether we identifiedinternally or not, we were
certainly aware of it.
Whether it took somebody toactually force us to look for
that missing piece, yeah, thatmight have happened.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Who were your customers early on?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
David, obviously very small SMEs, typically maybe a
dozen people.
I can still remember plenty ofclients who were sort of six
people or less and that wasabsolutely fine.
You know, I think when thebusiness starts, even for those
first we're probably talkingsort of nine or 10 years you
(05:20):
organically and again I thinkevery MSP goes through this you
do just through word of mouth,build more and more clients.
Those clients typically can bebigger and bigger and, as we
were, adding staff members tosupport those additional clients
, so you know, naturally thenumber of endpoints you're
supporting increases as well.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
What problems were you solving for your early
customers?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
It's an interesting one because it's something I've
been looking at recently tryingto work out.
Is there just a maturity thatevery MSP has to go through or
has the business actuallychanged over the last sort of 25
, 26 years?
And I think it's probably a bitof each.
But the original problemsolving was networking.
(06:09):
You know, that was how Technicacame to be, just because we
knew how to string computerstogether and get them talking to
one another.
You know how to organize thingscentrally, which clients didn't
seem able to do themselves.
Security was a very, very smallpart of that.
The problem solving was yourgeneral hardware issues how to
(06:31):
get even 10 or 15% out of thesoftware stack, which was
typically just sort of MicrosoftOffice.
Majority of clients might havehad some sort of small database
or something, and it was justmaking sure that the whole lot
hung together and everythingallowed them to be productive on
a day-to-day basis.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
I think you're right.
I think there's definitely amaturation of your business.
You realize we've outgrown whatwe were doing years ago and we
need to do something different.
But you're 100% right on theindustry itself.
I've heard MSPs for years andyears and years sell uptime.
That's all they were sellinguptime and now it's become more
business outcomes.
Right, you're trying to havedifferent conversations with
(07:11):
your clients and solve theirproblems.
Right, how they're growing orthe direction they're going, or
the types of services customers,and that takes a different
level of thinking.
So, speaking of a differentlevel of thinking, what brought
you to Craig?
Speaker 1 (07:28):
We were.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Destiny.
We were introduced by a mutualI was going to say client.
He wasn't actually a client ofyours, was he?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
No, I wouldn't really know how to describe him.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
A unique individual for sure.
We were introduced and we weredoing the IT support for Craig's
sales organization and Craigcame to visit us at the offices
that we were just fitting out atthe time and got us to draw got
me to draw an organogram of thebusiness which I was incredibly
proud of because it was somature for what we were doing.
(08:02):
It had a client onboardingsection and it had a new
business section.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I'm interrupting you there.
New business as in, how do youonboard the new clients?
Yeah, indeed, most certainlydid not have a new business
section.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
And then Craig pointed out, you know, surely
there was one element missing.
I was convinced, of course,nothing was missing.
This was just my, you know,piece of resistance, of
resistance.
It was so good, and then hepointed out that actually it had
no sales side to it at allwhich isn't uncommon, by the way
.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
He may have made it sound like it was, but it wasn't
uncommon.
He is just a very confidentindividual and knew he could
transform, and and and sotransform what you guys are
doing.
I have you talk a little bitabout organic growth and just
referral-based.
That's 90% of where MSPs gettheir new business.
(08:55):
So to have a real sales engine,I want to double-click on that
here in a little bit and dig in.
But, Craig, let me ask you sowhat brought you to Technica?
Obviously, you meet Dave and Iwant to hear the kebab story too
but you meet David.
How did that conversation go,you know?
And really what came out ofthat?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
So, as David said, they were doing my IT and we
were doing a sales and marketingcampaign for Technica and the
IT was going brilliantly, butthe sales and marketing campaign
was like awful, and I couldn'tquite work out what was going
wrong.
We were generating a few leads,we did a, a rebrand, which
(09:36):
david then went into.
We'd done the whole rebrand forhim, and then he goes into an
apple store in new york andcomes out and goes I want to
change the brand totally, whichwas interesting.
David's focus and I realizedthis after I joined Technica was
the infrastructure that theyhad put in and the systems that
they had in place could supporta company five times the size
(09:58):
that they were.
And we were just chatting aboutthe sales and you could see
straight away that David wassomeone that you'd want to
partner up with and I had had aprevious partner.
It went belly up.
I had sworn to myself that Iwould never get into business
with anyone else and then Davidand I were chatting.
(10:21):
It was a great kebab.
It really was.
I'm not sure what marinade theyused, but it was good, lots of
garlic and chili.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
I remember, and you know, kebabs yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I'm a big kebab man and we were just gelling on
everything.
And even when Sir David turnedaround and said you should join
us as a partner, even as we werediscussing it, you know, I
remember emails going back andforth and we're going back to
2009.
(10:52):
And I still remember the emailsand David going come on, I
don't want you to feel likewe've left anything out.
There must be more that youwant to ask.
There must be, you know, whatdo you want to know?
And it was just so open and sohonest that it was an obvious
route.
I remember meeting up with mydad and having a Diet Coke at
(11:15):
TGI Fridays, going I'm buildingthis small business here, this
sales and marketing agency, butactually this could be really
good.
And my dad, in his typical way,said whatever you want, son,
and that was kind of it.
We agreed it very quickly.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
So there was a little bit of sales for you David to
Craig to get him on board.
What did you see in Craigduring that meeting that made
you want to fight?
So this is interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Obviously there was the whole knowledge of the sales
side that we were 100% aware wedidn't possess.
We were, I'd say, kind of goodat closing.
When a potential lead comes toyou and says we've been
recommended by, you've got to goout of your way to mess that up
.
So for sure that was an anattraction.
(12:04):
But I think at that stage andthis is something else I'd say
about a lot of smaller mspssometimes it's just the
personality that you're lookingfor, and I don't mean you know
how outgoing extrovert peopleare, it's just are they capable
people?
Are they people you want totrust with your business to
drive it forwards?
(12:25):
And honestly, I don't thinkwe've ever actually had this
discussion, but that was thecritical part.
You know, show me somebody whounderstands that they want to
make a business a success andthat's the kind of person you
want involved.
And it doesn't really matterwhat their skill set is.
The fact that their skill setobviously is something that
you're lacking.
That just makes the decisioneven easier.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
So publicly it looks like you two have an amazing
relationship.
Can I just point out all?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
I've just heard is I had a couple of qualities and a
rubbish personality.
That's literally all I've justheard.
That's not what he said, Craig.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
He said exactly what I've seen in you as well.
You just have something peoplewant to talk to they.
What I've seen in you as well,like you, are you just have
something people want to talk to.
They want to have aconversation with you, and
that's a hard thing of beingsort of a technically led
business forever.
I think that's why most MSPsstruggle from sales as they try
to promote within or they bringsomebody from the telco industry
over or whatever.
They don't understand what youidentified very quickly, which
(13:21):
is there's an ICP that you arenot, that you were not targeting
David right Like you had builtthis amazing background and he
isn't even a technical guy, buthe understood what foundation
you had built there and that's Imean, that's a ton of credit to
you Like like you had donesomething amazing.
You just weren't takingadvantage of that yet and he saw
(13:41):
the opportunity.
So how long did you have tosimmer on this idea?
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, I'm not even sure we took a weekend, yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
That kebab was that good.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
So good, yeah, so good.
I think it was the idea ofhaving those on a weekly basis.
That really Wow.
I didn't know, it was a weeklykebab Every Friday.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
That sounds like a MSPs.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
If you're listening, that's the secret to success A
weekly kebab.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
You should start your own kebab company.
That could be like a side thing.
All right, craig, so you join,and that makes three owners,
though right, and I think thethought right that you had was
this is going to be good,because voting powers it's not
going to be split 50-50.
But that didn't turn out to bethe case.
Why was that?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
It was really difficult.
I think when I joined, David'soriginal partner was also quite
outgoing, really quite vocal,and certainly for the first
three to six months I remembersaying to David quite a few
times this isn't going to work.
And David was like leave it tome, leave it to me.
And we had a good few yearstogether, the three of us.
(14:52):
But then a situation arosewhere we had identified an area
that desperately needed somework.
We needed and, believe it ornot, David wasn't the technical
partner at the time he couldalways do technical, but he was
more operations and our formerpartner was was the technical
partner and we were desperatefor someone to work out how we
(15:16):
should be distributing tickets.
We knew we hadn't got it right.
We had everything in the bucketand people could take what they
wanted, and it just wasn'tworking for us and it wasn't a
route that he wanted to go down.
We then three, became two.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
And we talked a little bit about it.
It was as amicable as it couldbe.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
We certainly tried for it to be.
I'm not sure these things areever completely amicable, but I
also.
I don't think it got out ofhand at any stage.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Yeah, it.
Obviously there's a lot ofemotion, right.
I mean, this is, this issomebody's baby, this was yours,
you know you're too, and andyou're the new guy that's come
in.
That you know.
I'm sure that was.
That was quite sort ofcontentious at times, um, but
but you did the what you thoughtwas right at the time, which
has turned out to be reallyright, right.
(16:14):
I mean, you guys are.
There's really a transformationthat we're going to get into
here in a minute, but let's talk.
This is I was going to ask youthis a minute ago let's talk
about your two personalitiespublicly.
I see you two as, like, youabsolutely get along really,
really well.
Now, there's some funwisecracks and who's always
right and who's always wrong,but how do you two really
(16:36):
interact and how do you makedecisions?
Well, do you want to answerthis?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah because I think it goes back to the discussion
about the third partner as welland I think we could
realistically argue that everydecision we've ever taken has
always been for the good of thebusiness, and that's what I
think we lost a little bit of.
(17:02):
You know, people were takingdecisions that weren't
necessarily putting the business100% first, and I'd certainly
argue that since then, when ithas just been the two of us,
it's always just come down totrust, knowing that you're
always going to put the business100% first.
(17:22):
There's no ego involved,there's no outside pressure,
it's simply what is the rightdecision.
And that doesn't mean that youcan arrive at every decision
easily.
You know that there's stillcertain things where Craig will
believe one thing, I'll believesomething different, but we've
always had this system where,ultimately, one has to convince
(17:42):
the other that they're doing itfor the right reasons.
You know that that's a givenand then that you suck it and
see you.
You know, sometimes it's thatsimple.
And if it's working, thedecision that you take if it's
working, you know the otherpartner has to say that's great,
thank goodness, you know thatyou were right and the business
(18:02):
has benefited from this.
And when it doesn't work,you've got to find a way of
backtracking and saying OK, nowlet's try something different.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
You both are to a point where know as much as you
want to be like you want it tobe the right decision regardless
of whether it was yours or hisor whatever.
If it's not, you've got toquickly pivot right.
Like you know, you can't sit onsomething that is going to take
you off the road.
All right, how do you feel thatyou?
I heard his side.
(18:30):
How do you feel you?
Speaker 1 (18:34):
interact.
You won't be surprised to hearthis.
I totally agree with thatassessment.
You know, sometimes it comesdown to passion, yeah, and we
both respect each other enoughto be able to look at the other
one and say, okay, well, hereally wants to try this.
I don't agree with it, but hethinks it's going to work and
therefore I'm going to doeverything to try and make it
(18:56):
work.
Luckily, I don't remember toomany occasions where one of us
has done something that theother one has been absolutely
against it.
Just luckily, it just doesn'thappen has been absolutely
against Luckily, it just doesn'thappen.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Maybe luck, but maybe a little bit about the types of
people you both are.
I mean, you're very passionate.
You focus your passion indifferent areas of the business
and somehow you find a middleground when you don't agree.
That's amazing.
That's a great partnership.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
But also and I'm convinced you knew I was going
to bring this up eos has helped.
Yeah, you know where.
You've got the visionary, whocan go off and do whatever he
wants, and you've got theintegrator, who's got to be the
sensible one and tell thevisionary.
Actually, you've come up with37 ideas and only one of them's
any good.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
That's fine great, great segue.
So let's talk about 2023.
Rough year for you guys, right?
Just over two years ago, youlost three major accounts due to
private equity buyouts.
So not on your own accord justhappens.
We've been there, I've beenthere.
You had to take some immediateaction.
So what did you guys do?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
We had an office in Poland where we had four staff
and I'd spent a year of my lifegoing backwards and forwards
setting it up and we just cutthat straight away.
We had to let one person gofrom the London office.
We looked at every spend.
We pulled servers out of datacenters when we got the renewal
(20:28):
quotes in because electricprices in the UK had gone
through the roof and they wereputting I think it was 60, 70%
on what we were paying.
So we just pulled them out andbuilt our own data center in our
offices and we stopped ournatural urge to spend and, as
(20:49):
you know, even down to.
We were going to Empower inTexas in March 24, two of us
were going to go and then wethought it wasn't the right.
Look for the company.
We had made some redundancies,We'd got rid of some people, so
what would have looked like ajolly to the team, which
obviously you know it isn't.
Only one of us went and I wasthe lucky one that went and
(21:12):
you're glad you went Just alittle bit.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Let's talk a little bit about that Again.
This is about you guys, butwe're at Empower this week.
What was the value, what wasthe worth that you found in that
just over a year ago that madeyou want to come back again?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
It was just mind-blowing.
I've never been to Glastonbury,but I think Empower is the
Glastonbury of the IT world.
And sitting back then you didthe owner's cohort last year and
I was sitting at the owner'scohort and everyone's talking
about EOS, people are talkingabout Halo, people are talking
about Cove All of these thingsI'd never heard of and I didn't
(21:53):
have my trusty partner with meto say, well, is this any good?
Instead, I'm like slacking him.
We've got to look at this,we've got to look at that and
he's ignoring me, obviously,probably the middle of the night
.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, fair enough.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
There's a service level agreement.
I expect from you.
And.
And I came away from it andthis is also, I think, testament
to our relationship and how wework.
He didn't say no toimplementing anything.
You know, we came back, we didthe deal with Halo straight away
.
Within three weeks, everyclient had moved on to Cove,
which we'd literally never heardof before.
(22:29):
But the biggest thing was Iordered what the heck is EOS for
David, and then EOS wasimplemented very quickly
afterwards.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
You talk a little bit about EOS and for those and
then EOS was implemented veryquickly afterwards Talk a little
bit about EOS and for thoselisteners and viewers, maybe
describe it a little bit and howit's helped you guys.
I'm going to let David do this.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
So EOS is the Entrepreneurial Operating System
and it provides a framework,maybe a template, for any
business to operate by.
It insists on weekly meetings.
You've divided your businessinto various teams.
Each of those teams has aweekly meeting.
Each of those meetings has torun according to a given
(23:10):
schedule.
There's various rocks that aregiven out, tasks that every
individual has to accomplishwithin a set time period.
You've got your quarterly goals.
You've got your one-year goals,three-year goals, a 10-year
goal, the amount of almoststipulations.
It's almost a contract thateverybody has to agree to.
(23:33):
If you want to contribute tothis team, this is what you have
to achieve, and I just thinkthat's typically something
that's very lacking in the MSPworld, just because there's so
many technical people.
You know, everybody wants tofix things.
That's great.
Everybody wants to build stuffthat's great.
But nobody wants to go into ameeting where there's no set
(23:55):
agenda, no set time limit.
You know everybody just seesthat as a terrible waste of time
.
Nobody wants to communicatenecessarily with anybody else.
Eos just fills in all of thoseblanks.
For us it's properly gamechanging.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
It helps to ensure that people who wouldn't
normally want to takeresponsibility take
responsibility, takeresponsibility and are
accountable for their actions.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Yeah, the other thing that I that I've heard it does
to msps.
That is not typical.
Uh, a lot, of, a lot of mspsthat I hear.
They aren't very transparent,they don't necessarily share.
Well, this is what's going onon this side, or this is where
we were from.
Financials, things like layoffsare a surprise at the time, but
with eos, you know the thecourse that the ship is on and
(24:44):
when it starts to go astray,you're, you're, you're adapting,
you're trying to get the waterout of the ship as quickly as
possible.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
You guys agree with that 100.
We I mean, we've been accusedof that for years and years just
not not being transparent, andit's something that properly
hurts because you try to be well, we've certainly tried to be as
transparent as possible, butyou can always be accused of oh,
you didn't share this, youdidn't share that.
People are always looking foryou know, what you didn't share
rather than what you have shared.
(25:12):
Eos does take all of that outof the picture, Can?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I just add, one of the reasons why EOS takes that
out of the picture is becausetheir concept of right people in
the right seats and if you'vegot the wrong people in the
wrong seats you'll be accused ofeverything.
If you've got the right peoplein the right seats, they'll get
what you're trying to do andthey'll also ask the right
questions.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
Yeah, Step number one right people on the bus.
Step number two write people inthe right seats on the bus.
Step number three when thewrong people are in the wrong
seat, don't let them sit therefor too long.
Right, I think that's what I'veseen as I listen to MSPs and
from my past experience, you canruin a culture if you don't
(25:54):
make some of these decisionsquick enough.
Right, yeah, it's prettypowerful.
All right.
There's one other thing that Iknow you took from Empower last
year that has become a favoriteof yours, and that's peer groups
.
Right, it was the first timeyou were even Empower itself.
It was a chance for you to beable to network and engage, and
you know industry conferencesare amazing for that.
(26:16):
The MSP industry has some greatones out there.
I think we do a really good jobhere at Enable, because it's
big enough that you get exposedto a lot of different types of
MSPs, but it's not too big.
You can meet everybody beforethe end of the week, but walking
away.
You didn't want it to stopthere.
You don't want to wait anotheryear until you came to berlin,
and so you made a decision to tojoin a peer group.
(26:38):
And why was that?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
everyone on my owner's cohort table told me I
had to.
Um, you know what, speaking topeople like you david weeks,
robert wilburn they were sayingyou know there's no competition
in the room, right?
So you want to be sitting downwith these people on a regular
basis, you want to bebrainstorming with these people
on a regular basis, you want tobe brainstorming with them.
And I saw the benefit of justsitting in that owner's cohort
(27:03):
table.
I saw what it could do and sogot in touch with Vincent, drove
him a bit harder than heprobably wanted to be driven,
and we've got the peer group offthe ground.
And it's brilliant.
And you know we're only a smallpeer group.
There's three of us.
We're all here in Berlin andit's amazing.
(27:25):
And also you know, like thepeople that we met in or I met
in Texas, that David and I metin Nice with you and then
Amsterdam with you as well, andthen seeing them all here it's,
it's an amazing feeling, it's,it's really good.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Yeah, it's family, it's camaraderie, it's
competition I mean, every peergroup uh, sort of evolves at
their own pace, but a couple ofthings.
It's accountability, just likeEOS does.
Like you do not want to be theone that comes to the financial
call every quarter and hasn'thit your rock or hasn't moved
your net profit in the directionthat you wanted to.
(28:02):
When you have to explain that,that's never a good feeling,
right?
So you immediately want to makesure you're looking at those
numbers on a frequent basis.
And I think the other thing tooand you can do this through
events like this without a peergroup With a peer group, to your
point, it's the same peoplethat you're meeting with once a
month, and so you can have thoseconversations outside of those
(28:23):
calls, but at least once a monthyou're spending that time to
focus on the business.
Right, that you may have beencaught up in the day-to-day for
the last month, but now I've gota month to talk about.
Yeah, why didn't I do what Isaid I was going to do?
Talk about, yeah, why didn't Ido what I said I was gonna do?
Oh, I need to move that up onmy priority list.
So, yeah, it's pretty, prettypowerful.
All right, so you're not onlyboth here this week, but you
(28:44):
brought two engineers.
Why is that?
Speaker 1 (28:48):
um, this is one of the things that I am most proud
of of 2024.
We, when I left the hotel in te, I mean so I need to apologize,
because every sentence since2024 has started with when I was
in Texas, I decided and again,this is another thing, mad thing
(29:09):
to do and David just goes yeah,okay, uh, that we were going to
do the race to Berlin, and Irealized what I got out of it
and I thought a couple ofengineers could do really well
out of it as well.
So we created the race toberlin.
It was a seven or eight monthcompetition.
Every staff member was in it.
You got points by coming intothe office, by finishing your
(29:30):
projects on time, byimplementing automation, uh, by
doing builds, whatever it was.
You could win points.
And two of our engineers wonand they're here.
In fact, they are half an hourinto the Enable certification
course Awesome.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Well, I wish them luck.
That's a tough course.
If they pass it, you might haveto give them a kebab or
something, and if they fail,we'll send them back.
Fine, for a second attempt.
We won't let them fail.
We'll never leave a man behind.
All right, gentlemen.
So what's next for Technica?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
A load of the stuff that obviously Craig brought
back from Texas beingimplemented.
We're now with Halo, with ITGlue, using Xero for our
accounts so many things that dointegrate nicely.
Now we're looking at a toolthat will allow us to get the
most out of all of those talkingto one another.
(30:28):
So I think that's the there area sponsor.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
here you can mention who they are, I think.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Sure, okay, so we've just signed up with Roost.
They gave a very compellingdemonstration.
I love the concept of the tool.
We've been looking at all ofthe stack that we were already
using, wondering how we got themost out of it, whether there
was an intensive API coursecoming up for a number of us.
Roost, I think, will be theconduit that allows that to move
(30:57):
forward quickly.
The security side obviously isstill very exciting and there's
a bit of overlap there withtrying to get all of our
alerting into Sentinel and then,I'm hoping, via graph, we can
start doing some great thingsfor the 24-7 team and allow the
(31:17):
reporting to be really prettymuch to the minute.
So that's the technical answer.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
I was just going to say on the business side.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
So we've opened up full 24-7.
We've opened that up in SouthAfrica.
Stephanie would kill me if Ididn't mention that we're going
to continue with her brilliantEBR strategy.
They've been unreal for ourbusiness.
The deficit that we were facedwith at the end of 23 has almost
been wiped out entirely bygoing to clients with
(31:47):
Stephanie's EBR documents.
We always did status meetingswith our clients but they were
never as focused.
So we now go regularly haveEBRs and that's brought in 24-7
work, security work.
It's made sure the clients areusing the right licenses,
they're using our minimum techstack, that we've got our
baseline and we're looking atmergers and acquisitions.
(32:07):
There's a couple of companiesthat we're talking to at the
moment and when you say what'snext, it's huge growth.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
That's great.
What's next?
It's it's huge growth.
That's great.
Well, you're definitely goingto do that because, uh, I think
you've you've both experiencedthe non-growth um times in your
past and, uh, you've seen what,obviously, how you can
collaborate together and andtransform a business.
And so, why not?
Why not turn it into 2x, 3x, 4xthe size and 10X, maybe this
(32:39):
time next year?
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah well, I won't let David say what figure he's
put on the 10-year plan.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
We'll do a follow-up.
We have not done a follow-uppodcast.
We'll do a follow-up when youguys hit one of those Xs.
All right, here's my favoritequestion that I like to ask you
both, and we're going to startwith you, david, and we're going
to start with you, david, whendid you know?
Speaker 2 (32:59):
now, that's it.
This isn't going to be a greatanswer.
I'm not sure that I've everknown it was a huge risk
starting Technica.
My daughters were very young.
I'm trying to work out exactlyhow old they would have been
back then, minus their currentage from 26.
Yeah, yeah, so we're talkingtwo and four.
(33:20):
Yeah, it did feel like a, youknow, a risky move, but at the
same time, you know, there was alot of confidence that we could
actually pull it off.
I think there have been variousmilestones along the way.
Again, I think plenty of MSPsgo through just sort of stages
of maturity, I think, puttingdown certain foundations.
(33:41):
I don't know.
Somebody mentioned in the roomearlier one of the talks earlier
that you know it's a C or an Findustry.
I can remember the talk now andit is very much like that.
You know you, you don't reallyget a chance to sort of step
back, pat yourself on the backand say, wow, you know, what
have we done here.
It's just constantly thinkinghow do we move forward, what's
(34:04):
the next thing we have to beaware of, and I'm not sure that
I've ever taken the time to say,you know, yeah, that was all
worthwhile or good effort.
You should do that, yeah,because you I think you've, uh,
you've done some that was allworthwhile or good efforts.
You should do that, yeah, maybe.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
Because I think you've done some things that
most people have never done andyou've had some ups and downs
that most people haven'texperienced, and you're at a
point that I think you should Iget.
That's your personality.
That's not your personality tolook back and pat yourself on
the back, but you should.
Technica is an amazing MSP andyou made a decision to bring
(34:43):
somebody in to help you get itto that point.
I think you should definitelylook back and be proud of what
you've done, for sure.
All right, Craig, when did youknow now that's it.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Obviously, I've got two.
One was when we were inAmsterdam and I saw you on the
first day and you had thisridiculous thing growing on your
upper lip this mustache, it wasbeautiful.
And I said to you, by the timewe leave, in two days' time,
that will be gone.
And you were like, no, it won't.
And then, of course, I came inon the second day, your mustache
(35:22):
had gone and no one else hadnoticed.
So when I realized I couldconvince you to shave off your
mustache that you loved, Irealized I could convince people
of anything.
True, but the real answer, Ithink, hit me as I was leaving
the hotel in Texas and I was inthe cab on the way to the
airport just thinking we've gotthis.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Awesome.
I love it.
You two are both two of myfavorite people.
I'm so glad I was able to getyou both here in person to tell
your story.
It's an amazing story, I think.
For those of our listeners thatare struggling with the am I
down the right path.
This is just proof that you canredirect and change course and
bring some different leaders inand and help with that, and so I
(36:02):
thank you both for being partof this podcast, being
colleagues, friends of mine, andI wish you you guys both and
Technica, all the happiness andluck in the future.
Thanks, Bruce, Thank you verymuch.
One, two, three, four .
The infrastructure that theyhad put in and the systems that
they had in place could supporta company five times the size
that they were.
And we were just chatting aboutthe sales and Sir David turned
around and said you should joinus as a partner and I had had a
previous partner.
It went belly up.
I had sworn to myself that Iwould never get into business
(00:24):
with anyone else.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Is there just a maturity that every MSP has to
go through, or has the businessactually changed over the last
sort of 25, 26 years?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Welcome to Now that's it stories of MSP success,
where we dive into the journeysof some of the trailblazers in
our industry to find out howthey used their passion for
technology to help turn managedservices into the thriving
sector it is today.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Born into the shadow of success.
Craig Fisher was making a namefor himself before he was even
20.
But that all came to ascreeching halt.
Then entered David Enson and akebab, a few more struggles and
a trip to Texas that would turnthings around.
This should be a very funconversation.
I've been looking forward tothis one all week.
(01:13):
I'm excited to welcome to theNow that's it podcast Craig
Fisher and David Eisen ofTechnica Solutions.
Welcome, thank you for havingus.
This is special.
I'm glad I've got both of you,because I always tend to corner
one of you and ask you aquestion and then when I go and
talk to the other one, I get adifferent answer.
So now I've got you both oncamera.
(01:34):
This is going to be a truthserum Street fight.
Yeah, this is going to be fun.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
My answers are always the wrong ones.
Just so that you know.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I remember a time it wasn't, and you pointed that out
in front of the entire group ofindividuals, so maybe we'll
tell that story as well.
So let's go on the way backmachine, as I like to call it,
with the Now that's it podcast.
So that means, before you twomet, let's start with you, craig
.
Your background's nottechnology, and early on you
(02:02):
witnessed great success, butthat led to a lot of pressure
and expectations.
You talk a little bit aboutyour early career.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I was in the fashion industry.
I left school at 16, 17.
My grandfather had been in ityears before and he sold his
company in the 70s for 7 million, which back then was a lot of
money.
Um, and trying to follow in hisfootsteps put a lot of pressure
on me.
Only put that pressure on by me.
(02:32):
No one else was putting it on,um, and so I was desperate to
try and replicate his success.
By the time I was like 19 or 20, uh, and it was only um years
afterwards where people told methat he only made it when he was
about 45.
So it led to some pretty darktimes trying to put that
pressure on myself.
(02:52):
So it did collapse a little bit, but yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Well, I'm glad you were able to make that through
that.
I know a lot of earlysuccessful or at least people
that have been identified asmaybe prodigies or successful in
a certain business feel likethey constantly have to be doing
more, and so I can only imaginewhat that felt like.
I can't imagine it today,because I know who you are today
(03:18):
and you're very positive, veryoutgoing, but I'm really glad
you've been able to get throughthose early times so you find
your way into a small marketingagency and then over a kebab
with David.
But let's first catch up, david.
What was Technica Solutionslike before you met Craig?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Certainly very much focused on the technical, not so
much focused on the sales side.
I think, like an awful lot ofsmaller MSPs, it was just a fun
business.
You know it was a number ofguys that just enjoyed fixing
things and the business greworganically and was just great
fun to be in.
And then there just comes thatpoint where you realize if you
(04:05):
want to do more than that,you've kind of got to grow up a
bit, which is a little bit sadbut a little bit mature as well.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Like most MSPs, sort of starting out, you only know
what you know, right, you'redoing things the way that you
feel is best.
It's not like there's a book onhow to build an MSP.
You can read all the businessbooks you want in your life, but
to figure out how do I makethis work, that's hard.
And so you were doing somethingearly that you saw isn't going
(04:33):
to scale, and maybe you lookedat the team and you said this
isn't the team that's going tohelp us scale.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, no, exactly, is it?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Is that exactly how it happened?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
There was definitely a piece missing.
Whether we identifiedinternally or not, we were
certainly aware of it.
Whether it took somebody toactually force us to look for
that missing piece, yeah, thatmight have happened.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Who were your customers early on?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
David, obviously very small SMEs, typically maybe a
dozen people.
I can still remember plenty ofclients who were sort of six
people or less and that wasabsolutely fine.
You know, I think when thebusiness starts, even for those
first we're probably talkingsort of nine or 10 years you
(05:20):
organically and again I thinkevery MSP goes through this you
do just through word of mouth,build more and more clients.
Those clients typically can bebigger and bigger and, as we
were, adding staff members tosupport those additional clients
, so you know, naturally thenumber of endpoints you're
supporting increases as well.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
What problems were you solving for your early
customers?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
It's an interesting one because it's something I've
been looking at recently tryingto work out.
Is there just a maturity thatevery MSP has to go through or
has the business actuallychanged over the last sort of 25
, 26 years?
And I think it's probably a bitof each.
But the original problemsolving was networking.
(06:09):
You know, that was how Technicacame to be, just because we
knew how to string computerstogether and get them talking to
one another.
You know how to organize thingscentrally, which clients didn't
seem able to do themselves.
Security was a very, very smallpart of that.
The problem solving was yourgeneral hardware issues how to
(06:31):
get even 10 or 15% out of thesoftware stack, which was
typically just sort of MicrosoftOffice.
Majority of clients might havehad some sort of small database
or something, and it was justmaking sure that the whole lot
hung together and everythingallowed them to be productive on
a day-to-day basis.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
I think you're right.
I think there's definitely amaturation of your business.
You realize we've outgrown whatwe were doing years ago and we
need to do something different.
But you're 100% right on theindustry itself.
I've heard MSPs for years andyears and years sell uptime.
That's all they were sellinguptime and now it's become more
business outcomes.
Right, you're trying to havedifferent conversations with
(07:11):
your clients and solve theirproblems.
Right, how they're growing orthe direction they're going, or
the types of services customers,and that takes a different
level of thinking.
So, speaking of a differentlevel of thinking, what brought
you to Craig?
Speaker 1 (07:28):
We were.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Destiny.
We were introduced by a mutualI was going to say client.
He wasn't actually a client ofyours, was he?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
No, I wouldn't really know how to describe him.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
A unique individual for sure.
We were introduced and we weredoing the IT support for Craig's
sales organization and Craigcame to visit us at the offices
that we were just fitting out atthe time and got us to draw got
me to draw an organogram of thebusiness which I was incredibly
proud of because it was somature for what we were doing.
(08:02):
It had a client onboardingsection and it had a new
business section.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I'm interrupting you there.
New business as in, how do youonboard the new clients?
Yeah, indeed, most certainlydid not have a new business
section.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
And then Craig pointed out, you know, surely
there was one element missing.
I was convinced, of course,nothing was missing.
This was just my, you know,piece of resistance, of
resistance.
It was so good, and then hepointed out that actually it had
no sales side to it at allwhich isn't uncommon, by the way
.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
He may have made it sound like it was, but it wasn't
uncommon.
He is just a very confidentindividual and knew he could
transform, and and and sotransform what you guys are
doing.
I have you talk a little bitabout organic growth and just
referral-based.
That's 90% of where MSPs gettheir new business.
(08:55):
So to have a real sales engine,I want to double-click on that
here in a little bit and dig in.
But, Craig, let me ask you sowhat brought you to Technica?
Obviously, you meet Dave and Iwant to hear the kebab story too
but you meet David.
How did that conversation go,you know?
And really what came out ofthat?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
So, as David said, they were doing my IT and we
were doing a sales and marketingcampaign for Technica and the
IT was going brilliantly, butthe sales and marketing campaign
was like awful, and I couldn'tquite work out what was going
wrong.
We were generating a few leads,we did a, a rebrand, which
(09:36):
david then went into.
We'd done the whole rebrand forhim, and then he goes into an
apple store in new york andcomes out and goes I want to
change the brand totally, whichwas interesting.
David's focus and I realizedthis after I joined Technica was
the infrastructure that theyhad put in and the systems that
they had in place could supporta company five times the size
(09:58):
that they were.
And we were just chatting aboutthe sales and you could see
straight away that David wassomeone that you'd want to
partner up with and I had had aprevious partner.
It went belly up.
I had sworn to myself that Iwould never get into business
with anyone else and then Davidand I were chatting.
(10:21):
It was a great kebab.
It really was.
I'm not sure what marinade theyused, but it was good, lots of
garlic and chili.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
I remember, and you know, kebabs yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I'm a big kebab man and we were just gelling on
everything.
And even when Sir David turnedaround and said you should join
us as a partner, even as we werediscussing it, you know, I
remember emails going back andforth and we're going back to
2009.
(10:52):
And I still remember the emailsand David going come on, I
don't want you to feel likewe've left anything out.
There must be more that youwant to ask.
There must be, you know, whatdo you want to know?
And it was just so open and sohonest that it was an obvious
route.
I remember meeting up with mydad and having a Diet Coke at
(11:15):
TGI Fridays, going I'm buildingthis small business here, this
sales and marketing agency, butactually this could be really
good.
And my dad, in his typical way,said whatever you want, son,
and that was kind of it.
We agreed it very quickly.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
So there was a little bit of sales for you David to
Craig to get him on board.
What did you see in Craigduring that meeting that made
you want to fight?
So this is interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Obviously there was the whole knowledge of the sales
side that we were 100% aware wedidn't possess.
We were, I'd say, kind of goodat closing.
When a potential lead comes toyou and says we've been
recommended by, you've got to goout of your way to mess that up
.
So for sure that was an anattraction.
(12:04):
But I think at that stage andthis is something else I'd say
about a lot of smaller mspssometimes it's just the
personality that you're lookingfor, and I don't mean you know
how outgoing extrovert peopleare, it's just are they capable
people?
Are they people you want totrust with your business to
drive it forwards?
(12:25):
And honestly, I don't thinkwe've ever actually had this
discussion, but that was thecritical part.
You know, show me somebody whounderstands that they want to
make a business a success andthat's the kind of person you
want involved.
And it doesn't really matterwhat their skill set is.
The fact that their skill setobviously is something that
you're lacking.
That just makes the decisioneven easier.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
So publicly it looks like you two have an amazing
relationship.
Can I just point out all?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
I've just heard is I had a couple of qualities and a
rubbish personality.
That's literally all I've justheard.
That's not what he said, Craig.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
He said exactly what I've seen in you as well.
You just have something peoplewant to talk to they.
What I've seen in you as well,like you, are you just have
something people want to talk to.
They want to have aconversation with you, and
that's a hard thing of beingsort of a technically led
business forever.
I think that's why most MSPsstruggle from sales as they try
to promote within or they bringsomebody from the telco industry
over or whatever.
They don't understand what youidentified very quickly, which
(13:21):
is there's an ICP that you arenot, that you were not targeting
David right Like you had builtthis amazing background and he
isn't even a technical guy, buthe understood what foundation
you had built there and that's Imean, that's a ton of credit to
you Like like you had donesomething amazing.
You just weren't takingadvantage of that yet and he saw
(13:41):
the opportunity.
So how long did you have tosimmer on this idea?
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, I'm not even sure we took a weekend, yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
That kebab was that good.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
So good, yeah, so good.
I think it was the idea ofhaving those on a weekly basis.
That really Wow.
I didn't know, it was a weeklykebab Every Friday.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
That sounds like a MSPs.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
If you're listening, that's the secret to success A
weekly kebab.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
You should start your own kebab company.
That could be like a side thing.
All right, craig, so you join,and that makes three owners,
though right, and I think thethought right that you had was
this is going to be good,because voting powers it's not
going to be split 50-50.
But that didn't turn out to bethe case.
Why was that?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
It was really difficult.
I think when I joined, David'soriginal partner was also quite
outgoing, really quite vocal,and certainly for the first
three to six months I remembersaying to David quite a few
times this isn't going to work.
And David was like leave it tome, leave it to me.
And we had a good few yearstogether, the three of us.
(14:52):
But then a situation arosewhere we had identified an area
that desperately needed somework.
We needed and, believe it ornot, David wasn't the technical
partner at the time he couldalways do technical, but he was
more operations and our formerpartner was was the technical
partner and we were desperatefor someone to work out how we
(15:16):
should be distributing tickets.
We knew we hadn't got it right.
We had everything in the bucketand people could take what they
wanted, and it just wasn'tworking for us and it wasn't a
route that he wanted to go down.
We then three, became two.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
And we talked a little bit about it.
It was as amicable as it couldbe.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
We certainly tried for it to be.
I'm not sure these things areever completely amicable, but I
also.
I don't think it got out ofhand at any stage.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Yeah, it.
Obviously there's a lot ofemotion, right.
I mean, this is, this issomebody's baby, this was yours,
you know you're too, and andyou're the new guy that's come
in.
That you know.
I'm sure that was.
That was quite sort ofcontentious at times, um, but
but you did the what you thoughtwas right at the time, which
has turned out to be reallyright, right.
(16:14):
I mean, you guys are.
There's really a transformationthat we're going to get into
here in a minute, but let's talk.
This is I was going to ask youthis a minute ago let's talk
about your two personalitiespublicly.
I see you two as, like, youabsolutely get along really,
really well.
Now, there's some funwisecracks and who's always
right and who's always wrong,but how do you two really
(16:36):
interact and how do you makedecisions?
Well, do you want to answerthis?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah because I think it goes back to the discussion
about the third partner as welland I think we could
realistically argue that everydecision we've ever taken has
always been for the good of thebusiness, and that's what I
think we lost a little bit of.
(17:02):
You know, people were takingdecisions that weren't
necessarily putting the business100% first, and I'd certainly
argue that since then, when ithas just been the two of us,
it's always just come down totrust, knowing that you're
always going to put the business100% first.
(17:22):
There's no ego involved,there's no outside pressure,
it's simply what is the rightdecision.
And that doesn't mean that youcan arrive at every decision
easily.
You know that there's stillcertain things where Craig will
believe one thing, I'll believesomething different, but we've
always had this system where,ultimately, one has to convince
(17:42):
the other that they're doing itfor the right reasons.
You know that that's a givenand then that you suck it and
see you.
You know, sometimes it's thatsimple.
And if it's working, thedecision that you take if it's
working, you know the otherpartner has to say that's great,
thank goodness, you know thatyou were right and the business
(18:02):
has benefited from this.
And when it doesn't work,you've got to find a way of
backtracking and saying OK, nowlet's try something different.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
You both are to a point where know as much as you
want to be like you want it tobe the right decision regardless
of whether it was yours or hisor whatever.
If it's not, you've got toquickly pivot right.
Like you know, you can't sit onsomething that is going to take
you off the road.
All right, how do you feel thatyou?
I heard his side.
(18:30):
How do you feel you?
Speaker 1 (18:34):
interact.
You won't be surprised to hearthis.
I totally agree with thatassessment.
You know, sometimes it comesdown to passion, yeah, and we
both respect each other enoughto be able to look at the other
one and say, okay, well, hereally wants to try this.
I don't agree with it, but hethinks it's going to work and
therefore I'm going to doeverything to try and make it
(18:56):
work.
Luckily, I don't remember toomany occasions where one of us
has done something that theother one has been absolutely
against it.
Just luckily, it just doesn'thappen has been absolutely
against Luckily, it just doesn'thappen.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Maybe luck, but maybe a little bit about the types of
people you both are.
I mean, you're very passionate.
You focus your passion indifferent areas of the business
and somehow you find a middleground when you don't agree.
That's amazing.
That's a great partnership.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
But also and I'm convinced you knew I was going
to bring this up eos has helped.
Yeah, you know where.
You've got the visionary, whocan go off and do whatever he
wants, and you've got theintegrator, who's got to be the
sensible one and tell thevisionary.
Actually, you've come up with37 ideas and only one of them's
any good.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
That's fine great, great segue.
So let's talk about 2023.
Rough year for you guys, right?
Just over two years ago, youlost three major accounts due to
private equity buyouts.
So not on your own accord justhappens.
We've been there, I've beenthere.
You had to take some immediateaction.
So what did you guys do?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
We had an office in Poland where we had four staff
and I'd spent a year of my lifegoing backwards and forwards
setting it up and we just cutthat straight away.
We had to let one person gofrom the London office.
We looked at every spend.
We pulled servers out of datacenters when we got the renewal
(20:28):
quotes in because electricprices in the UK had gone
through the roof and they wereputting I think it was 60, 70%
on what we were paying.
So we just pulled them out andbuilt our own data center in our
offices and we stopped ournatural urge to spend and, as
(20:49):
you know, even down to.
We were going to Empower inTexas in March 24, two of us
were going to go and then wethought it wasn't the right.
Look for the company.
We had made some redundancies,We'd got rid of some people, so
what would have looked like ajolly to the team, which
obviously you know it isn't.
Only one of us went and I wasthe lucky one that went and
(21:12):
you're glad you went Just alittle bit.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Let's talk a little bit about that Again.
This is about you guys, butwe're at Empower this week.
What was the value, what wasthe worth that you found in that
just over a year ago that madeyou want to come back again?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
It was just mind-blowing.
I've never been to Glastonbury,but I think Empower is the
Glastonbury of the IT world.
And sitting back then you didthe owner's cohort last year and
I was sitting at the owner'scohort and everyone's talking
about EOS, people are talkingabout Halo, people are talking
about Cove All of these thingsI'd never heard of and I didn't
(21:53):
have my trusty partner with meto say, well, is this any good?
Instead, I'm like slacking him.
We've got to look at this,we've got to look at that and
he's ignoring me, obviously,probably the middle of the night
.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, fair enough.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
There's a service level agreement.
I expect from you.
And.
And I came away from it andthis is also, I think, testament
to our relationship and how wework.
He didn't say no toimplementing anything.
You know, we came back, we didthe deal with Halo straight away
.
Within three weeks, everyclient had moved on to Cove,
which we'd literally never heardof before.
(22:29):
But the biggest thing was Iordered what the heck is EOS for
David, and then EOS wasimplemented very quickly
afterwards.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
You talk a little bit about EOS and for those and
then EOS was implemented veryquickly afterwards Talk a little
bit about EOS and for thoselisteners and viewers, maybe
describe it a little bit and howit's helped you guys.
I'm going to let David do this.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
So EOS is the Entrepreneurial Operating System
and it provides a framework,maybe a template, for any
business to operate by.
It insists on weekly meetings.
You've divided your businessinto various teams.
Each of those teams has aweekly meeting.
Each of those meetings has torun according to a given
(23:10):
schedule.
There's various rocks that aregiven out, tasks that every
individual has to accomplishwithin a set time period.
You've got your quarterly goals.
You've got your one-year goals,three-year goals, a 10-year
goal, the amount of almoststipulations.
It's almost a contract thateverybody has to agree to.
(23:33):
If you want to contribute tothis team, this is what you have
to achieve, and I just thinkthat's typically something
that's very lacking in the MSPworld, just because there's so
many technical people.
You know, everybody wants tofix things.
That's great.
Everybody wants to build stuffthat's great.
But nobody wants to go into ameeting where there's no set
(23:55):
agenda, no set time limit.
You know everybody just seesthat as a terrible waste of time
.
Nobody wants to communicatenecessarily with anybody else.
Eos just fills in all of thoseblanks.
For us it's properly gamechanging.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
It helps to ensure that people who wouldn't
normally want to takeresponsibility take
responsibility, takeresponsibility and are
accountable for their actions.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Yeah, the other thing that I that I've heard it does
to msps.
That is not typical.
Uh, a lot, of, a lot of mspsthat I hear.
They aren't very transparent,they don't necessarily share.
Well, this is what's going onon this side, or this is where
we were from.
Financials, things like layoffsare a surprise at the time, but
with eos, you know the thecourse that the ship is on and
(24:44):
when it starts to go astray,you're, you're, you're adapting,
you're trying to get the waterout of the ship as quickly as
possible.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
You guys agree with that 100.
We I mean, we've been accusedof that for years and years just
not not being transparent, andit's something that properly
hurts because you try to be well, we've certainly tried to be as
transparent as possible, butyou can always be accused of oh,
you didn't share this, youdidn't share that.
People are always looking foryou know, what you didn't share
rather than what you have shared.
(25:12):
Eos does take all of that outof the picture, Can?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I just add, one of the reasons why EOS takes that
out of the picture is becausetheir concept of right people in
the right seats and if you'vegot the wrong people in the
wrong seats you'll be accused ofeverything.
If you've got the right peoplein the right seats, they'll get
what you're trying to do andthey'll also ask the right
questions.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
Yeah, Step number one right people on the bus.
Step number two write people inthe right seats on the bus.
Step number three when thewrong people are in the wrong
seat, don't let them sit therefor too long.
Right, I think that's what I'veseen as I listen to MSPs and
from my past experience, you canruin a culture if you don't
(25:54):
make some of these decisionsquick enough.
Right, yeah, it's prettypowerful.
All right.
There's one other thing that Iknow you took from Empower last
year that has become a favoriteof yours, and that's peer groups
.
Right, it was the first timeyou were even Empower itself.
It was a chance for you to beable to network and engage, and
you know industry conferencesare amazing for that.
(26:16):
The MSP industry has some greatones out there.
I think we do a really good jobhere at Enable, because it's
big enough that you get exposedto a lot of different types of
MSPs, but it's not too big.
You can meet everybody beforethe end of the week, but walking
away.
You didn't want it to stopthere.
You don't want to wait anotheryear until you came to berlin,
and so you made a decision to tojoin a peer group.
(26:38):
And why was that?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
everyone on my owner's cohort table told me I
had to.
Um, you know what, speaking topeople like you david weeks,
robert wilburn they were sayingyou know there's no competition
in the room, right?
So you want to be sitting downwith these people on a regular
basis, you want to bebrainstorming with these people
on a regular basis, you want tobe brainstorming with them.
And I saw the benefit of justsitting in that owner's cohort
(27:03):
table.
I saw what it could do and sogot in touch with Vincent, drove
him a bit harder than heprobably wanted to be driven,
and we've got the peer group offthe ground.
And it's brilliant.
And you know we're only a smallpeer group.
There's three of us.
We're all here in Berlin andit's amazing.
(27:25):
And also you know, like thepeople that we met in or I met
in Texas, that David and I metin Nice with you and then
Amsterdam with you as well, andthen seeing them all here it's,
it's an amazing feeling, it's,it's really good.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Yeah, it's family, it's camaraderie, it's
competition I mean, every peergroup uh, sort of evolves at
their own pace, but a couple ofthings.
It's accountability, just likeEOS does.
Like you do not want to be theone that comes to the financial
call every quarter and hasn'thit your rock or hasn't moved
your net profit in the directionthat you wanted to.
(28:02):
When you have to explain that,that's never a good feeling,
right?
So you immediately want to makesure you're looking at those
numbers on a frequent basis.
And I think the other thing tooand you can do this through
events like this without a peergroup With a peer group, to your
point, it's the same peoplethat you're meeting with once a
month, and so you can have thoseconversations outside of those
(28:23):
calls, but at least once a monthyou're spending that time to
focus on the business.
Right, that you may have beencaught up in the day-to-day for
the last month, but now I've gota month to talk about.
Yeah, why didn't I do what Isaid I was going to do?
Talk about, yeah, why didn't Ido what I said I was gonna do?
Oh, I need to move that up onmy priority list.
So, yeah, it's pretty, prettypowerful.
All right, so you're not onlyboth here this week, but you
(28:44):
brought two engineers.
Why is that?
Speaker 1 (28:48):
um, this is one of the things that I am most proud
of of 2024.
We, when I left the hotel in te, I mean so I need to apologize,
because every sentence since2024 has started with when I was
in Texas, I decided and again,this is another thing, mad thing
(29:09):
to do and David just goes yeah,okay, uh, that we were going to
do the race to Berlin, and Irealized what I got out of it
and I thought a couple ofengineers could do really well
out of it as well.
So we created the race toberlin.
It was a seven or eight monthcompetition.
Every staff member was in it.
You got points by coming intothe office, by finishing your
(29:30):
projects on time, byimplementing automation, uh, by
doing builds, whatever it was.
You could win points.
And two of our engineers wonand they're here.
In fact, they are half an hourinto the Enable certification
course Awesome.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Well, I wish them luck.
That's a tough course.
If they pass it, you might haveto give them a kebab or
something, and if they fail,we'll send them back.
Fine, for a second attempt.
We won't let them fail.
We'll never leave a man behind.
All right, gentlemen.
So what's next for Technica?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
A load of the stuff that obviously Craig brought
back from Texas beingimplemented.
We're now with Halo, with ITGlue, using Xero for our
accounts so many things that dointegrate nicely.
Now we're looking at a toolthat will allow us to get the
most out of all of those talkingto one another.
(30:28):
So I think that's the there area sponsor.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
here you can mention who they are, I think.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Sure, okay, so we've just signed up with Roost.
They gave a very compellingdemonstration.
I love the concept of the tool.
We've been looking at all ofthe stack that we were already
using, wondering how we got themost out of it, whether there
was an intensive API coursecoming up for a number of us.
Roost, I think, will be theconduit that allows that to move
(30:57):
forward quickly.
The security side obviously isstill very exciting and there's
a bit of overlap there withtrying to get all of our
alerting into Sentinel and then,I'm hoping, via graph, we can
start doing some great thingsfor the 24-7 team and allow the
(31:17):
reporting to be really prettymuch to the minute.
So that's the technical answer.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
I was just going to say on the business side.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
So we've opened up full 24-7.
We've opened that up in SouthAfrica.
Stephanie would kill me if Ididn't mention that we're going
to continue with her brilliantEBR strategy.
They've been unreal for ourbusiness.
The deficit that we were facedwith at the end of 23 has almost
been wiped out entirely bygoing to clients with
(31:47):
Stephanie's EBR documents.
We always did status meetingswith our clients but they were
never as focused.
So we now go regularly haveEBRs and that's brought in 24-7
work, security work.
It's made sure the clients areusing the right licenses,
they're using our minimum techstack, that we've got our
baseline and we're looking atmergers and acquisitions.
(32:07):
There's a couple of companiesthat we're talking to at the
moment and when you say what'snext, it's huge growth.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
That's great.
What's next?
It's it's huge growth.
That's great.
Well, you're definitely goingto do that because, uh, I think
you've you've both experiencedthe non-growth um times in your
past and, uh, you've seen what,obviously, how you can
collaborate together and andtransform a business.
And so, why not?
Why not turn it into 2x, 3x, 4xthe size and 10X, maybe this
(32:39):
time next year?
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah well, I won't let David say what figure he's
put on the 10-year plan.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
We'll do a follow-up.
We have not done a follow-uppodcast.
We'll do a follow-up when youguys hit one of those Xs.
All right, here's my favoritequestion that I like to ask you
both, and we're going to startwith you, david, and we're going
to start with you, david, whendid you know?
Speaker 2 (32:59):
now, that's it.
This isn't going to be a greatanswer.
I'm not sure that I've everknown it was a huge risk
starting Technica.
My daughters were very young.
I'm trying to work out exactlyhow old they would have been
back then, minus their currentage from 26.
Yeah, yeah, so we're talkingtwo and four.
(33:20):
Yeah, it did feel like a, youknow, a risky move, but at the
same time, you know, there was alot of confidence that we could
actually pull it off.
I think there have been variousmilestones along the way.
Again, I think plenty of MSPsgo through just sort of stages
of maturity, I think, puttingdown certain foundations.
(33:41):
I don't know.
Somebody mentioned in the roomearlier one of the talks earlier
that you know it's a C or an Findustry.
I can remember the talk now andit is very much like that.
You know you, you don't reallyget a chance to sort of step
back, pat yourself on the backand say, wow, you know, what
have we done here.
It's just constantly thinkinghow do we move forward, what's
(34:04):
the next thing we have to beaware of, and I'm not sure that
I've ever taken the time to say,you know, yeah, that was all
worthwhile or good effort.
You should do that, yeah,because you I think you've, uh,
you've done some that was allworthwhile or good efforts.
You should do that, yeah, maybe.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
Because I think you've done some things that
most people have never done andyou've had some ups and downs
that most people haven'texperienced, and you're at a
point that I think you should Iget.
That's your personality.
That's not your personality tolook back and pat yourself on
the back, but you should.
Technica is an amazing MSP andyou made a decision to bring
(34:43):
somebody in to help you get itto that point.
I think you should definitelylook back and be proud of what
you've done, for sure.
All right, Craig, when did youknow now that's it.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Obviously, I've got two.
One was when we were inAmsterdam and I saw you on the
first day and you had thisridiculous thing growing on your
upper lip this mustache, it wasbeautiful.
And I said to you, by the timewe leave, in two days' time,
that will be gone.
And you were like, no, it won't.
And then, of course, I came inon the second day, your mustache
(35:22):
had gone and no one else hadnoticed.
So when I realized I couldconvince you to shave off your
mustache that you loved, Irealized I could convince people
of anything.
True, but the real answer, Ithink, hit me as I was leaving
the hotel in Texas and I was inthe cab on the way to the
airport just thinking we've gotthis.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Awesome.
I love it.
You two are both two of myfavorite people.
I'm so glad I was able to getyou both here in person to tell
your story.
It's an amazing story, I think.
For those of our listeners thatare struggling with the am I
down the right path.
This is just proof that you canredirect and change course and
bring some different leaders inand and help with that, and so I
(36:02):
thank you both for being partof this podcast, being
colleagues, friends of mine, andI wish you you guys both and
Technica, all the happiness andluck in the future.
Thanks, Bruce, Thank you verymuch.
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