186. Harrison Lowman: Trudeau’s Legacy, Poilievre’s Rise & Canadian Media

Harrison Lowman, Managing Editor of The Hub, speaks with Aaron Pete about Canada’s shifting media landscape, Justin Trudeau’s legacy, Pierre Poilievre’s rise, and the challenges facing the country. They explore journalism’s role in shaping public discourse, media subsidies, and why conservative perspectives are gaining traction.

Send us a text

Support the show

www.biggerthanmepodcast.com

Episode Transcript

Aaron Pete (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the Bigger
Than Me podcast.
Here is your host, aaron Peet.
The media landscape is changing, and fast.
Many news organizations aretrying new models and new
approaches to reaching Canadians.
I'm speaking with the managingeditor of the Hub, an online
news outlet about Justin Trudeau, pierre Palliev, journalism and

(00:24):
the future of Canada.
My guest today is HarrisonLohman.
Harrison, it is an honour tohave you on the show.
We have talked behind thescenes a lot about our
perspectives and how we come tothem, and I'm grateful for you
to be able to join the showtoday.
Would you mind firstintroducing yourself?

Harrison Lowman (00:43):
Aaron, the honour is all mine.
I've followed your story forquite some time.
Who am I?
I am Harrison Lohman.
I'm a journalist.
I'm the managing editor of anews and commentary website
called thehubca.

Aaron Pete (00:59):
Can we first start off with?
You're a journalist and I'mwondering how you digest
information.
A lot has gone on over the pastsix months to process and
digest and a lot has risen tothe zeitgeist, in my opinion,
like the Chrystia Freelandresignation that really reached

(01:21):
people and there's a lot to takein.
How do you go about processingthat information?

Harrison Lowman (01:26):
I think that being part of this industry, you
know being devoted tojournalism.
It's a blessing and a curse,right, because the membrane
between what you're interestedin and what your work is is very
thin.
There's a lot of overlap, andI've caught myself shaking my
head often when I've come homefrom work and on my break I'm

(01:47):
watching a Christia Freelandspeech and you start thinking
what the heck is wrong with me.
This is some sort of strangeaddiction.
I should be on like a TLC showof some sort.
How do I consume information?
I have ADHD, so it's quite easy.
I'm constantly on Twitter.
I'm, you know, I'm listening toeasy.
I'm constantly on Twitter.
I'm listening to podcasts, I'mreading everything I can find,

(02:09):
I'm talking to as many people aspossible, and that all congeals
into a giant blob, and then Iget to sort of form opinions on
that and understand.
How should the hub beapproaching this as a small to
medium-sized outlet?
How can we against know,against the big boys take things
from a different angle andoffer some sort of new

(02:30):
perspective on?
You know the issues facing thecountry, which are numerous, as
you know.

Aaron Pete (02:36):
What would you describe as the top stories
we're facing right now?

Harrison Lowman (02:50):
right now.
I think that, um, I was talkingto Margaret McMillan, who's a
famous Canadian historian, a fewuh days ago and, uh, we
basically came to the conclusiontogether that the last 30 plus
years or so you know, that'saround our age, I think, aaron
uh of relative stability arelike an anomaly in world history
.
History is usually chaotic andI think Canada, a country that

(03:13):
has thrived on stability in the,you know, a world order that
involved institutions where amediatory middle power like
ourselves could make deals and,you know, rely off of our
friendship with worldsuperpowers.

(03:35):
I think that's a lot of it's upin the air.
I think those, those worldsuperpowers, care less and less
about us, and they would saythat over the last few years
we've not been pulling ourweight, and I think one of the
big issues for Canada is we'relike playing catch up on in a
variety of places, whetherthat's domestic issues like

(03:55):
interprovincial trade, or thefact that we are just millions
and millions of dollars behindwhen it comes to spending on
defense and defending ourselves.
We've been relying on others.
So we're I don't know, it feelslike we're shrugging as a
nation right now.
We don't know where our placein the world is we realize that

(04:17):
the fortress walls we had aroundus might not be as high and as
fortified as we thought theyonce were and at the same time
and I think Trump iscapitalizing on this we've spent
the last few years lookinginwardly, feeling guilty, and

(04:40):
it's impacted our national pride.
So, internally, I don't know,not the most unified as we meet
all these challenges, which kindof concerns me.

Aaron Pete (04:50):
You said, looking inwardly, feeling guilty.
What are you referring to?

Harrison Lowman (04:54):
This is stuff we've talked a lot about, right,
aaron, like it's always aboutfiling balance right, like one
of the things we don't want todo at the hub is be like rage,
baby, and uh, black and whiteand uh, uh, you know, ignore
what are real chapters incanadian history.
But it just seems like and a lotof this being led by the, the

(05:15):
you know prime minister that'scurrently on his, on his way out
that the focus has been on like, um, what have canadians done
wrong in their history?
That we should emphasize thosethings, those should float up to
the top.
And what was initially, youknow, when we were younger, an
ignorance towards Canadianhistory a lot of us, you know,

(05:37):
would say objectively it'spretty boring has also been met
with okay, well, you know, we'llthen teach it to you, but we'll
teach it, you know, almostexclusively from a negative
perspective as it relates tohave we treated certain groups,
including Indigenous groups,like you and I have talked about
over the years.
I just think that you know,some sort of perspective is

(06:00):
needed and, yeah, we could use alittle bit of that these days
is needed and, yeah, we coulduse a little bit of that.

Aaron Pete (06:08):
These days.
It feels like and I'd like youropinion on this metaphor that
perhaps Canadians have fallenasleep over the past 30 years to
what our role is, what ourvalues are and how to be proud
of a lot of those pieces, andnow this news button doesn't
work anymore.
We're waking up, we'rerealizing that action, strong

(06:28):
leadership, is needed and we'rescrambling to to figure those
pieces out now that we're awake.
How do you feel about thatmetaphor?
Um?

Harrison Lowman (06:38):
so I I'm like somewhat of a patriot and I'm
all for the symbolism and thethe, the waves of, you know,
canadian pride we're seeingsweep across the country now,
but it for me, aaron, it has tobe grounded in something like
otherwise it's meaningless.
It's like it's like sayingyou're Catholic and then going

(07:00):
to church for, like Christian,one Christmas, one day a year,
like you have to do somethingwith that.
When we talk about comingtogether, what does this mean?
It's like getting actuallyinvolved in your community.
It means donating your time andmoney to charities in Canada.
It means, you know, helpingyour fellow man or woman, you

(07:23):
know, in your neighborhood.
It involves teaching others,you history about Canadian
values.
It can't just be what's goingto be happening in the next few
days.
We're going to have Flag Day.
A bunch of people will bewaving flags and people will buy
more Canadian soup at thegrocery store.
It's like I don't know whatthat is.

(07:44):
One of the things thatfrustrates me most about, you
know, identity politics is thatso much of it is just gesturing.
It doesn't mean anything, it'sjust a photo op and at the end
of the day, you're not reallydoing anything.
You're not doing the hard work,which is ironic because you
know a lot of these people whoare into the identity politics

(08:04):
stuff talk about like doing thework.
It's like you should beactually doing the work and you
know, I'll pat you on the backhere because I think you're an
example of someone who literallydoes the work.
It's like, oh, I care about myFirst Nation and like the
struggles these people are goingthrough.
You know what does that mean?
It makes making sacrifices inyour own life.
It means it means like beingselfless and you know, instead

(08:27):
of going out for dinner withyour girlfriend on a Friday
night, you're answering thefrantic cell phone calls of
someone in your community whosebasement is flooded.
That's what it means to likeactually do the work.
There's my little rant for you.

Aaron Pete (08:40):
I love that.
I think we're under a timewhere we're really thinking
about leaders and what it meansto be a leader, and we have
these moments that we get aglimpse of what it means to be a
leader.
The standout one for a lot ofpeople is Trump being shot in
the ear or having a fragment ofleadership.
You can't make that up.
That's not scripted, that's notplanned.
Despite what, uh, someinteresting people have to say,

(09:13):
that is uh real.
Could you describe justintrudeau, prime minister justin
trudeau, from your perspective?

Harrison Lowman (09:21):
what is this, um, uh, in terms of leadership,
like, do you want me to tell youfirst what?
What I think you know what isimpressive about him, or what I
like about him, and then,potentially, give me a
description of yourunderstanding of who he is um, I
think, uh, he's someone who, atthe end of the, got to where he

(09:45):
was because of his last name.
I think he's someone who isextremely empathetic and cares
about what he does, but I justdon't think he's a politician of
substance, necessarily ofsubstance necessarily.
The sense I got from speakingto folks who spoke to folks you

(10:08):
know, within his administration,is that he saw and sees the
role of prime minister as beingsort of like a mascot or
figurehead, right, I don't thinkhe's someone who's up late at
night flipping through policybooks and is really sweating
over the numbers.
He's someone, in a lot of ways,he's someone that's interested

(10:31):
in that.
You know, you know symbolicgestures, appearances, how he's
perceived by the media, how helooks in the media, yeah, but
again, I'll hear, I'll give himsome praise too.
I think you know he's provedhimself.
He looks like he's, he's agreat dad.
He I don't think we can say hedidn't when it came to issues

(10:59):
about climate change, you know,drinking water, on indigenous
first nations.
You can't say that like hedidn't care about the people
involved in this stuff and thatwere hurt by this stuff.
But in terms of his tenure, Idon't know, I'm not.
You know, let's make this aconversation Like what do you
think he'll be remembered for inthe next?
You know, over the last 10years, what do you think are

(11:21):
sort of the you know, the majorthings that stand out?

Aaron Pete (11:25):
The major thing that stands out for me has been, and
will be, his action onreconciliation on the issues you
just described.
From my perspective and fromeverything I've heard, this has
been an opportunity over thelast 10 years for First Nations
who actually want to address theissues that they talk about, an
opportunity to do so andactually have the funding in

(11:47):
order to reach some of thosegoals.
And my community is just anexample of that 35 out of 89
homes with significantinvestments in renovations,
funding available to developmore housing, more water systems
, upgrade water very quickly.
We have received that supportand our process in negotiations

(12:08):
has been smoother than from whatmy understanding is, under the
Harper era.
So that's my standout piece.
That's why I was interested inspeaking with Minister Gary
Anansangre and Minister PaddyHaidoo is understanding that
piece, because I don't feel likethat part of his platform is
getting any light and I think inpart that is because of the

(12:28):
mass grave story.

Harrison Lowman (12:31):
Okay, so that's that.
And then you know, we look at,like, his economic management of
the country.
We look at you know we talkedabout the nation's sort of
perception of itself.
We look at Canada standing onthe world stage and the
assertion that he made when hecame in that Canada was back
Again, whatever that meant, youknow, going to New York making

(12:52):
this grand gesture and then it'sfollowed by, you know, not so
much doing the work as wediscussed.
So definitely you can say, andyou and I remember when Gord
Downie stepped forward before hepassed away and he said like if
there's any prime ministerthat's going to bring first
bring Indigenous issues to theforefront, it's going to be this
guy.
And maybe we, you know, we lookback and in the textbooks, like

(13:17):
20 years from now, you knowthat's next to his name in the
chapter about Justin Trudeauthat at the very least he
brought, you know, indigenousissues to the forefront.
Obviously you can then argueabout to what extent he's
improved the lives of indigenouspeople, and you and I have
talked about even like I think,where you guys are in BC, like

(13:38):
life expectancy of indigenousfolks and the you know what's
happened there in his tenure,this kind of stuff,
incarceration, et cetera.
So that these are the things Iworry the you know what's
happened there in his tenure,this kind of stuff um
incarceration, etc.
So that these are the things Iworry about.
Like, how do we, you knowsubstantive change?

Aaron Pete (13:53):
how do we think about pierre polyev?
He's a name growing, uh.
Many are touting him as thenext prime minister of canada.
How do you see him?
What are your perspectives onhim?

Harrison Lowman (14:06):
He's been someone that's been involved in
politics his whole life.
He wrote an essay when he was avery young guy and he talked
about what he'd do if he wasprime minister.
He actually won an award for itand went down to Ottawa as a
result.
So he's been like deeplyimmersed in politics for his,

(14:30):
his whole life.
I think he very much tookadvantage of like a, you know,
center right populist wave thatwe've seen sort of surging
across the Western world and andyou know, is riding that wave
and has a lot of and this is,you know, an interesting
development has a lot of bluecollar working class Canadians

(14:52):
who see themselves in him, or atleast see him as like a voice
for them.
That's a new thing.
Right to have, like you know,workers, potentially union
members, you know, votingconservative.
I think another exceptionalthing is that you're seeing like
young people um, voteconservative or consider voting

(15:14):
conservative.
Um, you know he gets criticizedfor like what we call the cut of
his jib right, like he'sunapologetic, he's aggressive
when it comes to speaking tomembers of the media.
I think to a certain extent,aaron, if you're going to be
like a kind of populistcenter-right leader in the West
these days you need to voicesome of the anger that is in

(15:39):
that base that you're sort ofrepresenting.
But yeah, one of the critiquesthat gets launched in him is
like whether he has another gearthat's a bit more serious when
it comes to being likestatesman-like.
So we're going to see and Idon't mean to date your episode
here, but in the next few daysthe conservative party is

(16:03):
realizing the ballot questionhas changed from cost of living
and going after Justin Trudeau,carbon tax etc.
To more about affordabilityplus the future of the US trade
relationship and the future ofthe Canadian economy as a result
.
So we're going to see Mr Polyevchange tack and maybe he'll

(16:27):
take a tonal change as well withthat.

Aaron Pete (16:32):
To follow up.
You kind of described the cutof his jib.
I'm thinking that might be somesort of alignment with a more
masculine presence.
There's that video of JustinTrudeau reacting to a labour
worker, making comments likewhat the hell are you doing for
me?
And Justin Trudeau, I think,offers him a donut or something

(16:53):
like that, and the response wasunderwhelming to the pressure
and the questions that thatperson was asking.
He's like how is dental caregoing to help me?
I can't afford to go buygroceries.
How is this going to fix myissue?
And Justin Trudeau was likehe's like, how is dental care
going to help me?
I can't afford to go buygroceries, how is this going to
fix my issue?
And Justin Trudeau was likewell, you're welcome to have a
donut.
It was something along thoselines.
That wasn't a substantive policydiscussion.

(17:13):
When Pierre Polyev has beenpressured, the reaction is more
assertive, a bit more masculine,a bit more willing to push back
and get into a debate right onthe spot, and that seems to be a
space in which he's much morecomfortable than Justin Trudeau
is getting into a bit of adebate based on substance, not
based on.

(17:33):
I guess some would say thathe's more of a slogan person,
but he's able to respond veryquickly to things.
How do you process that?
More mask, I would say moremasculine element of Pierre
Polyev.

Harrison Lowman (17:48):
Look at him.
He's gotten like jacked overthe last few months, like it's
pretty self-evident, and he'swearing these tight shirts and
he's got the aviators on.
You know, I would say it's it'stwo things right.
It's weird.
You got the sloganeering partand he is probably the most on
messagemessage politician thatCanada's ever seen.
This guy is doing radio hitsthat are seven minutes long and
in every answer he's repeatingaxe the tax, build the home,

(18:10):
stop the crime, fix the budget.
It's wild.
It must be working to a certainextent if he keeps doing it.
So you've got those slogans.
But then you've also got theselong mini-docs about debt in
canada.
Um, he just released anotherone on his plan for the, the

(18:31):
canadian north.
Um, again, aaron, like, becauseconservatives have been out of
power for 10 years now.
There's like a beat, there'slike a, a build-up of
frustration.
So they're waiting for someonewho, for example, you know, does
an interview on the cbc.
So they're waiting for someonewho, for example, you know, does
an interview on the CBC andwhen they're asked what he
considers to be a bias question,he like calls it out to their

(18:52):
face and they, you know somepeople would say it feels like
owning the libs and that'ssatisfying.
But it's so gratifying to folkswho feel like they haven't been
represented in the mainstreammedia and have been, you know,
forced to see the same people infront of the cameras for many,
many years and the same issuescovered, and it feels good when

(19:13):
they have a leader that callsthat out.
Now that's, you know, these arethe tricks of the trade when it
comes to being leader of theofficial opposition and you know
, you know beating back againstthe opposition.
You know he'll have to extendthe tools in his toolkit.
When it comes to potentiallybeing prime minister, right,
it's a whole different ballgameand as soon as you become prime

(19:35):
minister, you're in charge ofjust it's hard to even describe
the mammoth amount of likedepartments and bureaucrats and
ministers and files, and there'sjust so much that can go wrong
and you've got to wrap your armsaround all that and do the best
you can when it comes tomanaging that and, uh, it's a

(19:56):
tough job for anyone.
Uh, I think he's prettyrelentless in terms of how he's
prepared to do that and I knowfor a fact that he's got a team
of folks sort of furiouslywriting policy over in Ottawa
right now.
But, yeah, it's going to be adifferent job title with a
different set of skills requiredshould he get that top job.

Aaron Pete (20:20):
Jordan Peterson, in an interview a while back,
talked specifically about howone of the mistakes the
Conservatives made through AaronO'Toole, andrew Scheer, during
that period was that theyconceded the grounds on the
debate stage that that was a keyissue that needed a

(20:45):
proportional amount of time tothe economy or to the housing
issues.
To cede that ground cost themthe election because they
weren't able to talk about theissues they would have rather
discussed.
Do you think there's any meritto that argument Like
specifically, on reconciliationor Climate change would be
another one where that was asignificant piece of the debate

(21:06):
discussion and perhapsconservatives ceded ground by
allowing that to be a keypriority of the discussion
during that period.
By agreeing to those terms thatthose were the key topics, they
may have cost themselves theelection because that isn't
issues that they they want to betalking about.
They have other issues they'dprefer to be focused on.

Harrison Lowman (21:28):
It's funny now, right, that back then, the
carbon tax was this center.
It was this ruby at the centerof the crown where it came to
you know, climate change policy.
It's like if you didn't have acarbon tax then you weren't

(21:49):
beating back climate change.
I think, like you obviouslyhave to have some sort of a plan
and you can't be seen as likeignoring some of these issues.
For the conservatives, on theindigenous issue specifically, I
think and you're seeing it nowlike it's about, uh, like
autonomy and self-governance andthe ability for first nations
folks to like, uh, be able to,uh extract, handle, etc.

(22:14):
Their own resources.
I think that's like a responsefrom the modern conservative
party, you're seeing, to whatyou just described.
Um, so they're like how can we,how can we approach indigenous
issues, but in our own uniqueway that's different from the
other parties, thatdistinguishes us from them?
Cause, you know, going in, yeah, there's this perception.

(22:36):
I guess, specifically as itrelates to climate change and
indigenous issues, that, like,conservatives don't care.
That's a very low on theirpriority list.
It helps them now, not on theindigenous issues.
I think people are stillthinking about this, but when it
comes to really focusing onclimate change and making that
the issue you're voting on.

(22:56):
I think for most voters, as aresult of the affordability
crisis and the trade stuff, itdrops further and further down
on their priority list.
So I guess that helps theConservatives in some way.

Aaron Pete (23:10):
In the media right now, one piece that I just don't
know how to grapple with, and Ithink a lot of Canadians are in
this boat.
We hear comments from PierrePolyev about Jagmeet Singh's
pension and that that's one ofthe reasons he's making a lot of
the political decisions he'smaking.
How should the general publicprocess that discussion?

Harrison Lowman (23:30):
I don't know.
I think it's a bit of asideshow.
I think the more intelligentcriticism of Jagmeet Singh is,
like you know, when the dustsettles here and we come out the
other side of this election andhe's like eviscerated, the NDP

(23:51):
thinks about did we make a dealwith the devil?
Like you know, there's NDPersthat would say as a result of
the supply and confidenceagreement, we were able to push
through, you know, on majorissues like pharmaceuticals and
dental care, etc.
You know the response back tothat is like OK, how many people

(24:12):
did this actually help?
You propped up a government foryears.
As the result of doing this,you didn't ask for any like
formal roles and like acoalition government where you
occupied like cabinet postingsetc.
Um, and it meant that, like youactually weren't legitimately
seeking power, you were justhoping to like influence from

(24:33):
the sidelines.
For years, now that the ndp hasbeen trying to push away from
this idea that they're like theconscience of of parliament,
that they are actually serious,a serious political party, um,
that's, that's.
That's aim is to, like you know, have a prime minister, a
federal prime minister.
Um, but I think again, once thedust settles, they're really

(24:54):
going to have to uh, I don'tknow, wrestle with the fact that
, um, in making that deal, theybasically um, you know it, it
hurt.
It hurt them because they werethen seen as being like uh,
partners, um, with the, with theliberals, um, and then you know

(25:15):
, I think it's going to hurttheir chances the next election.
So they're going to have topotentially revisit that can you
tell us about the hub?

Aaron Pete (25:22):
how did it start start?
What is its background?

Harrison Lowman (25:25):
Sure.
So the Hub is.
We're celebrating our four-yearanniversary.
It actually was founded duringCOVID, which is wild, same yeah,
things were birthed amongst thepandemic Beautiful things.
It's a place for intelligent,you know, reasonable center
right thought analysis news.

(25:50):
But when I say news, I mean theselection of topics would be
what someone potentially youknow on the center right is
interested in.
But you know we're going toplay it straight in terms of the
coverage, like I think one ofthe problems here is, like you
know, so much trust has beenlost when it comes to journalism
in this country.
It's important to sort of playit down the line when you're
reporting on news.
So I'll put that caveat there.

(26:10):
A lot of people ask me, aaron,they're like why have we seen,
like you know, center rightoutlets pop up over the last few
years, whether it be like theline or us, and my response to
them is because mainstream medialeans left.
So you know people who areinterested in folks on the

(26:31):
issues on the right beingcovered or folks on the right
being sort of platformed.
They don't really have a placeto go.
So it leaves opportunities forplaces like us to.
To sort of pop up in centerright circles is like you know

(26:52):
someone phrased it to me as likethere's often commentary from
like frothing boomers who are,like you know, old man yells at
cloud is the the Simpsonsanalogy that you might know, and
I'm less interested in that.
I want to hear from youngvoices like yourself and you
know you've been featured in thehub about people who will
actually be alive for thechanges that are being proposed
and the next version of Canada.
We discuss Canada's facing allthese issues.
When we come out the other end,how many of the people sort of

(27:15):
complaining about it and justsaying it's broken are going to
be around to even like be thereto pick up the pieces.
So we're there to offer likedeep analysis.
I come from a current affairsbackground.
At the agenda with Steve Pagan,we're driven by policy and data
.
You know we're patriotic but atthe same time, steve Paikin,
we're driven by policy and data.
You know we're patriotic but atthe same time, you know we

(27:36):
don't approach everything fromsort of a black and white angle
and we also don't believe inmedia subsidies which we can get
into.
I don't think people realizethat.
You know we don't just have theCBC and public broadcasters
like that and tvo, butincreasingly under the trudeau
government, um, the privateoutlets have been propped up by

(27:57):
a variety of different subsidies, whether they be payroll
subsidies or different uhprograms and um.
From our perspective, we thinkthat impacts trust.
It also stunts innovation,right?
If you're just being, if youhave this, this, if you're a
hamster and you have a machinethat's just feeding you pellets

(28:17):
and you don't have to go findyour own meal and you know, have
creative destruction.
See what works, see whatdoesn't be rewarded for your
readers for doing things that dowork.
I think that's going to harmthe industry.
And then you know, once thathand that feeds is taken away,
likely by a conservativegovernment that's not interested
in the subsidies what happensthen, aaron, you know the whole

(28:39):
ground collapses underneath youand we have like extinction
level events in Canadian media.
So that's what I'm worriedabout.

Aaron Pete (28:47):
What are center right issues?

Harrison Lowman (28:52):
What are center right issues?
What are center right issues?
I think you'd see people beinginterested.
These are things that I youknow, having worked here just
for over a year became furtherexposed to, and they're issues
that you know, when I worked inmainstream media, I thought why
the heck aren't we looking atthis more?
So, issues around history andpatriotism, issues around
fertility what's going on withCanada's fertility rate?

(29:13):
Why don't we talk about, likefamilies, family formation and
the fact that, you know,canadians are having less and
less kids.
Looking at immigration levels,again, respectfully, without
dipping into like bigotry andracism, just like legitimately
raising the fact that you know,we've seen the temporary foreign

(29:35):
workers program skyrocket,We've seen international student
numbers skyrocket and, like youknow, we speak to demographers,
we speak to statisticians andlike just putting those numbers
out in the open, free of likethe racism I just described.
I think, uh, those are certainissues, um, we, we have a bunch

(29:57):
of lawyers that write for us, um, and aren't the biggest fans of
the charter or the Supremecourt and having unelected uh
officials, um, make decisionsfor the populace rather than
elected officials.
I think that's something elsethat we look at.
So that's just sort of a tasteof, I think, sort of beats that
you'd see in the page of the Hub, can you?

Aaron Pete (30:17):
walk me through some of the writers that you work
with and what stands out abouttheir perspectives that make it
unique from a traditionalnewspaper.

Harrison Lowman (30:28):
Sure.
So I would preface this all bysaying like media maybe I'm
being a utopian thinker here,but media should be like a
smorgasbord, right Like youshould be consuming stuff on the
left, stuff on the right, morecentrist stuff, and then putting
that all together and comingout with your opinion.
The problem is is that in a hubtype fashion.

(30:49):
yes, yes, and and I say this atthe same time, in that, like you
know, we will, you know, I makean effort to feature people
that aren't just, you know, ofthe center right that you should
be, you know, exposed todifferent ideas and have your
ideas challenged.
It shouldn't just be you,shouldn't just be affirmed all

(31:11):
the time.
Um, let me, do you want somestories that we've recently been
looking at, or absolutely sure.
So like, uh, you know, we, we,we, we had to confront the fact
a few weeks ago that there's asubset of the um of conservative
voters that are trump fans.
Um, either they're like fans ofthe guy or fans of his issue,

(31:34):
fans of the issues he'sinterested in, and, uh, they're
having a real problem.
And we had a, an articlewritten by spencer fernando,
who's um, uh, you know, acanadian conservative who
basically said like the time isnow.
If you're canadian conservative, you know you need to abandon
trump, because all that stuffyou like about Trump is coming
up against the fact that thisguy wants to annex our country,

(31:57):
is potentially invoking massivetariffs that will, like, destroy
our economy.
So he wrote an op-ed on thatthat got a lot of attention.
What else did we look at?
We spoke to David Coletto,who's a pollster, and he had
often it's boring to look atpolls, aaron, so we instead had

(32:17):
him create what something thatthe conservatives did many years
ago, where, you know, youcreate voter profiles to get a
sense of like who are stillinterested in voting for the
liberals at this point in time.
And he put together these likecharacters you know, through all
his various statistical surveys, and he came up with Laura Lynn

(32:38):
, a 73 year old widow living inScarborough, sophie, a young
unmarried lawyer living indowntown Montreal, and described
to us you know theirpersonalities and what their
priorities were, and I thinkthat you know that helped give
our readers a sense of, like um,who the liberal voters were
these days, rather than lookingat some cold hard uh uh data.

(32:59):
We've looked extensivelythrough uh uh at uh you know
this is exclusive data throughan economist um out in Alberta
called Trevor tomb.
Um, he broke down like how muchCanada stands to lose as the
result of these tariffs andthrough our countermeasures.
I think that's been huge.
So yeah, that's sort of alittle.

(33:19):
There's your smorgasbord of hubarticles over the last few days
, aaron.

Aaron Pete (33:25):
When somebody reaches out to you who's a
writer with the hub, who are theindividuals?
You get excited to get theirperspectives on, because
certainly, uh, you're going toread it over prior and
understand what's going on.
Who are the people?
You you go, I'm excited to hearthis perspective.
I don't know what it's going tosay, but I'm excited to click
that email, open it up and findout what's happening so we, as

(33:47):
we've grown, we get like 10unsolicited requests a day or
something.

Harrison Lowman (33:54):
Now it's almost like it's too much, so got to
keep the email brief and get thereally cool unique stuff up at
the top, I guess, or in thesubject line if we're going to
pay attention to it.
But we do do our best to siftthrough all of them.
I don't know, I've alwaysthought this too and we kind of
touched on this already.
But for me, do our best to siftthrough all of them.
I don't know, I've alwaysthought this too, like and we
kind of touched on this alreadybut like, for me it's young
people.

(34:14):
For me it's young folks who areenergetic who Names.

Aaron Pete (34:23):
Give me names.
Give me people.
Give me real people, not.
What is this?
You're giving me a voterprofile right now.

Harrison Lowman (34:31):
Well, I'm just going gonna end up talking about
yourself, aaron.
You came to us, I met, we metthrough a mutual podcaster, tara
henley and I should have saidit's not allowed to be me um,
here I'll give a, I'll give heranother example we have.
So, uh, we have a, uh, acorrespondent out in ottawa
named ellie and, uh, he's ayoung guy in his 20s and he's

(34:54):
wise beyond his years and I'mastounded at his ability to, you
know, learn, work for us well,pursuing a university education
at the University of Ottawa, atthe University of Ottawa, and he
wrote a piece recently for us,you know, from his perspective,
but also speaking to hiscolleagues, about why the heck?

(35:15):
A poll recently showed that 43%of I think it's Gen Zers in
Canada would seek Americancitizenship if their assets
could be converted into USdollars.
And why are young people inCanada willing to give up on
their country?

(35:35):
And looking at the hand thatwe've dealt this generation and
how, for the first time, it'sgoing to be worse than the hand
that their parents were dealt,that frustrates me.
And what frustrates me is thequotes from articles like that,
when young people say you know,I did all this stuff, like I got

(35:55):
the university education, I didthe internship, I worked my ass
off and then I just I don't seelike a path ahead of me unless
I come from an upper middleclass family, unless I get into
business or finance Like.
That's a sad state of affairswhen the people that are

(36:16):
supposed to be most optimisticwhen it comes to the future of
Canada are the people that aremost pessimistic.

Aaron Pete (36:22):
I couldn't agree more.
I see so much of that and it'shard to balance.
I think I got into this a bitwith David Eby.
How much do we try and inspirepeople to stop looking for an
already carved path?
How much of this needsentrepreneurs to be driven
motivated?
Like nothing is going to stopme from reaching my goals?

(36:43):
No government action, nogovernment inaction.
I am going to go get it, nomatter what.
And how much is like when, ifyou look 40 years ago like you
could be on social assistanceand end up with a house and be
in a financially reasonablecircumstance where you you
weren't in jeopardy or homelessor going to food banks every day

(37:03):
.
Like, how do we find thatbalance of keeping that
energized workforce that'swilling to do whatever it takes
versus having empathy andunderstanding for people's
circumstances?

Harrison Lowman (37:15):
I think it's a balance right.
Like you can't have the stateputting up blockages in front of
you, so you have to create anenvironment in which someone who
wants to make something canthrive.
But also, I don't know you needto, you need to nudge them
along, give them some help.
I'm big on mentorship, aaron.
I'm a Cub Scout leader and I'vebeen involved in it for like 30

(37:41):
years, so that explains a lotthe warm kindness.
Yeah, so, so, so I I don't havekids of my own, but I hope to.
But every Wednesday night I'm incharge of like 37 to
10-year-olds and they aredelightful and I try to set an

(38:02):
example for them.
I try to explain to them andI'll get sappy for a minute here
.
I'm like for this wholeneighborhood community machine
to work, it takes a bunch ofdifferent things working at once
.
You guys are tiny cogs andyou've all got.
You know the.
You have to be spinning next toone another and giving back and

(38:23):
doing what's expected of youand, yes, that involves you know
responsibilities placed on you,not you know rights, and you
know what, what the state shouldbe giving me, what can you do
for your community that helpsthis whole thing work.
I also tell them that they'relike from a long line of cubs

(38:44):
you know, that have been in thecommunity for like a century,
and that I think those linkageshelp as well.
They don't the worst thing,especially when it comes to
young men, aaron, like ifthey're idle and they don't have
a sense of purpose, and likethey're part of some, like
they're you know they're,they're uh, like cherished and

(39:06):
part of some sort of club, um,uh, and they're aimless, iless.
I think it only leads toproblems.
So how, like I don't knowsomeone like yourself how did
you ensure that you weren't justsort of floating around and
ending up in the wrong crowds,like what allowed for you to,
you know, chart that pathstraight ahead and not, you know

(39:27):
, ambling off of it?

Aaron Pete (39:30):
I was that person for not an insignificant portion
of my life, without directionor a sense of where I needed to
be.
But I always just feltunderestimated by teachers and
and people like they.
They kind of treated me like Ihad nothing going on in my head
meanwhile, like I was kind ofcritical in my own head of how
they were doing their own jobs.

(39:50):
Like teachers who didn't likeme.
I was like well, I don't thinkyou're a great teacher.
Like it's not.
It's not a one way street forme.
It's not like you're the bestteacher and I'm a terrible
person, like I've always been.
I'm um.
I did Jordan Peterson's umpersonality assessment and it
found me in the 99th percentileof most disagreeable people.
So I have a very difficult timeagreeing with what the majority

(40:14):
has to say.
So I think that led me down apath of wanting to chart it for
myself.

Harrison Lowman (40:22):
And yeah, I guess that involves too, like
maybe your thing wasn't schoolbut it takes, you know, a
teacher or someone else noticingthat like okay, maybe he
struggles here, but like thisother thing he seems to really
be interested in, and let'sfoster that, like, let's get him
doing that kind of stuff Causeuh, uh, to not be encouraging.
I think you know those peoplefailed you to a certain extent

(40:44):
if they were just sort ofputting you down.
I think I remember you tellingme, like one of them said, you
know, this guy's's gonna end upin prison or something like that
is not, yeah helpful thing tosay, like yeah it's a.

Aaron Pete (40:57):
It's a wild thing, but I'm glad that you're.
You're playing that role andit's got to be unique for you to
be able to see young peoplegrowing up and also being able
to see the state of the worldthat they're going to be leaders
of one day, that they're goingto be taking responsibility for
that.
They're like um.
Within my culture it's likethis idea of seven generations

(41:18):
and that we're supposed tosteward this and pass it on to
the next generation and give itto them in a good way.
And when you talk about thislike um, we've heard the
statistic that youngergenerations are going to be, the
first time, worse off thantheir parents were.
That's such a change in therelationship amongst families to
understand that there's aninequity there.

(41:41):
I do want to ask you a littlebit about your perspective.
I've heard some comments andI'd like to get your
understanding.
How is the hub actually funded?
I've heard some ex-posts aboutit.
How does that function and howis it hub actually funded?
I've heard some some some xposts about it.
Um, how does that function andhow is it different than media
subsidies?

Harrison Lowman (41:56):
so um, the official line I'll give you.
So it's.
It's.
It's a not-for-profit, fundedby subscription revenue,
advertising dollars and apartnership with a charity
called the center for civicEngagement.
So we're up against it, aaron.
Like everyone, you know, ifwe're all in a race to get as

(42:17):
many eyeballs as possible upagainst all our competitor other
news outlets, we're at a hugedisadvantage because they're all
like most of them.
There's a few of us that signedsomething called the Ottawa
Declaration, saying we're notgoing to take media subsidies,
but the rest of them are on themedia subsidies, so they're at a
massive head start when itcomes to that.

(42:42):
So, yeah, we will do sponsoredseries, but they're fair.
We did one recently on thefuture of news with Meta, which
you can see and was a finalistat the Copa awards this year,
where we looked at the uh.
You know, given the state ofthe of media, what are different
, uh, and how do we profile them?

(43:03):
What are different newsorganizations that are, um, I
guess, succeeding in the currentenvironment that show promise?
Um, so we went across thecountry and spoke to folks there
.
Yeah, I guess that's generallysort of how I would describe
things.
We, increasingly, are movinginto podcast and video and we've

(43:24):
begun, you know, in the lastyear or so, gating certain
pieces to encourage people tobecome subscribers and it's all
about, like building thatcommunity right.
We have hub events across thecountry, whether they're pub
nights or private Q and A's withthe, you know, canadian and
American thinkers Recently hadOren Kass from American Compass,

(43:46):
who you know is the brainsbehind the tariffs in the US.
You know is the brains behindthe tariffs in the US.
You know he's been known tohave crafted some of the
thinking that you know VicePresident JD Vance has in his
head currently and you know wereeggs thrown at him as he made
his way into the event.
No, we actually had arespectful dialogue and tried to

(44:06):
get a sense of like where arethey coming from here?
And then, how can Canadianpolicymakers, you know,
potentially respond?
You know you've got tounderstand where the people you
disagree with are coming fromfor you to form an argument
against them.
You know, and that's one of thereasons why I described that
smorgasbord when it comes tomedia, that smorgasbord when it

(44:33):
comes to media, it's like if youdisagree on an issue, um, or
with someone, it would help ifyou've like read their stuff, I
hope or like.
Have a sense of like how theyhave formed their opinions so
that you can then form your own.

Aaron Pete (44:41):
I think it really helps and um, I just like to
call them names and then hopethey never come back up ever
again.
That that's my preference.

Harrison Lowman (44:49):
It's like you read that, oh my gosh, it's such
horrible disgust.
It's like, well, I kind of wantto know what they're up to.
This is the whole reason.
You know, this debate between Idon't know I hate the word
platforming, but like SameListening to.
So, for example, like SteveBannon was interviewed by Global

(45:11):
News a few days ago and I'msure a lot of people were up in
arms and said this guy is, youknow, a living human devil.
And how dare Global News sendreporters down there to put a
microphone in front of his faceand he was in prison and he's a
bad person.

(45:34):
Yeah, like what I see in that.
It's like, regardless of whatyou think about the guy, I kind
of want to know.
You know, maybe he's got theinside scoop on what Trump's
about to do next.
He, you know, was a seniormember of his White House staff
and I think it's far moreinteresting and helpful to kind
of get where the heck this guyis coming from than to just kind
of like bury that.
To just kind of like bury that.

(45:55):
I think often if you with someof these folks, if you ignore
them and don't whatever platformthem, means you just force them
further underground.
They get angrier.
They talked amongst themselvesabout how folks avoid them and
how no one gives them the timeof day and they lash out even
more.
I think it actually like itextends your problem and makes

(46:15):
it even worse when it comes tothe division, conflict, etc.

Aaron Pete (46:20):
What makes a great journalist, from your
perspective?

Harrison Lowman (46:23):
I wrote some notes here.

Aaron Pete (46:26):
Put them away.
We got to put unfiltered onthis or something.

Harrison Lowman (46:30):
I think curiosity way we got to put
unfiltered on this or something.
I think uh, I think uh,curiosity um well, I have
revolutionary.
Nobody's ever said that before Ihad to write that down.
Curiosity, um, I have I I usedto be described at my last job
of like a childhood, a childlikesense of wonder, like I don't
know.
I still find I'm, I don't know,I'm just, you have to be

(46:54):
interested in the world, youhave to be interested in people,
you have to, you have to, Idon't know, just be wanting and
I was a shy, I was a shy kid,aaron Like I would get my
brother to walk up at like hotel, uh, uh, you know, front desks,

(47:17):
and, like you know, get thecards and stuff, because I just
couldn't do it.
But but when you, you know,become a journalist and you're
forced to be cold calling people, uh, uh, you know all that sort
of melts away, um, yeah, Ithink I'm going to be lame here.
Curiosity, but you know whatcrushes curiosity Activism,
aaron.
So I think it comes down tosort of curiosity.

(47:42):
I also think that everyone isinteresting.
So when people will say to meyou know, you're introduced.

Aaron Pete (47:51):
I want everybody to know when I asked Harrison to
come on his first.
I've got nothing to say aboutmyself.
I don't have anythinginteresting.
The guy who finds everybodyinteresting didn't find himself
interesting to discuss himself.

Harrison Lowman (48:03):
Yeah, like I was interested in this guy.
I think someone's like I don'tknow if you'll get along.
Like he works at McDonald's,you don't have much to talk
about.
I just, I like just interviewpeople um who I meet, because
like there's so many things youcan learn even from this guy who
works at mcdonald's.
You know who are theinteresting characters that you
know frequent your establishment.
How does it all work?
Like it's like a you know awhole like factory assembly line

(48:26):
back there.
How do you know, how does thatwork out?
I I've spoken to plumbers andtruckers and all these.
You can gain a lot just bypeppering people with questions
and if they sense that you'reactually interested in what they
do and you're not justbullshitting them, they totally
open up.

Aaron Pete (48:46):
Dude, you just described this whole podcast.
You have to seem interested.

Harrison Lowman (48:52):
It can't be fake and it's so easy to
recognize that someone's puttingsomething on or playing a role.
I think often and we went offthe top talking about
politicians it's like, oh, he'splaying the role of XYZ, as
opposed to, this is a genuineperson who cares.
Yeah, I think that that couldbe realized by someone in in

(49:16):
seconds.
So, you know, it's important to, to, to sort of foster that
it's like.
Is he asking that question justbecause he's reading it on a
piece of paper and it was handedto him by a producer and he's
like some sort of actor that'sable to give it this little
tonal like and like fakecuriosity, or is he like
actually genuine, like genuinelyinterested, and people are so
interested that's why they'relistening to podcasts, that's

(49:37):
why they're listening toalternative media, that's why
they want something beyond thelike CTV broadcaster Welcome
tonight.
And like someone's putting onthis voice and there's all this
glitz and glam and this person'sin like seven layers of makeup
and, uh, people don't want that.
They're like desperate forpoliticians and media
personalities who are just ontheir level, um, genuine and

(50:02):
real, as opposed to like allthis stuff that gets in the way
of like two people interactingwith one another.
So so, yeah, it's funny.
And now we're having, you know,podcasts that go like four or
five hours, um, and then meanderaround, when meanwhile, aaron,
I was taught in journalismschool, like this is the opening
question.
This goes here and, you know,one question could dismantle the

(50:25):
whole thing, cause you didn'tfollow this like direct path.
It's just weird how it's, you's.
You know, it's all, it's all.
Just the whole thing has beenblown up over the last few years
.

Aaron Pete (50:34):
What made you interested in journalism?

Harrison Lowman (50:37):
well, I think it was partially the fact that
my grandfather was like atoronto star journalist for like
45 plus years, coming out ofworld war ii, so that's part of
it.
He actually passed away beforehe saw that I you know, got into
the industry, um, but I youknow.
Can you tell me a bit moreabout him?
That's interesting, okay, sohis, his name was ronald loman.

(50:57):
He was in the royal air force.
Um, he came out of the war andyou know you talk about, you
know better hands being dealt.
You know, as you proceed downthe generational line, this guy,
frigging, walked into theToronto Star building and wrote
some poem that was, I think,entitled Pen for Hire.
And you know, I think theylooked, they were happy to have

(51:21):
former servicemen, you know,join their ranks.
So he got a job and then, aaron, they flew him out all across
the world to cover the refugeecrisis post-World War II.
And he came back and he said tohis wife, who had had two kids,
one of them being my dad, wecannot try and have a third kid,
we need to adopt.
And they adopted a young babyfrom China.

(51:46):
You know the one child policyhad been enacted, you know the
one child policy been enactedand my aunt Susan had been left
in an apartment building in HongKong with the door locked by
her parents because they didn'twant her, because she was a girl
.
She wound up in an orphanageand what did my grandfather do?
They?
They flew her over.
She was one of the first adoptedChinese babies in Ontario and

(52:09):
he made a news story out of itand it was on like A2 or A3 of
the Toronto Star, her comingdown the staircase of the plane
and my dad and aunt and mygrandpa and grandma like
welcoming this girl with openarms into extremely white
Scarborough where she had wildculture shock.
But she was, you know, welcomedinto Canada.
She is a proud and happyCanadian today and I have a

(52:33):
Chinese aunt as a result.
But this was all part of.
You know, this was him as ajournalist covering a topic and
then I guess it, you know itaffected it affecting him enough
that he was like you know, Ineed to do something here
because this is just so horrible, the displacement of people I'm
seeing here, and then itchanging his life and the life

(52:55):
of my family.

Aaron Pete (52:57):
How do you enact that in your own life?
That piece of like you coverstories.
They're stories, but how do youtake it home?
Or how do you incorporate whatyou learn about the world into
your own life?

Harrison Lowman (53:10):
I don't know.
The big one for me and this mayseem a bit off topic is like
when I was at TVO, I covered alot of stuff about like
Afghanistan and specificallyaround like Afghan women.
I think it's an issue that'snear and dear to my heart.
Just because, again, it's likewe talk about Canada, I think
it's another example of likecanada promising the world and

(53:35):
delivering, um, not so much.
And then I don't know if youknew this like I think we were
the first g7 country to leaveafghanistan as it fell to the
taliban, uh, and we ourambassador left on a half empty
military plane and foreignaffairs put up a plaque honoring

(54:00):
their great job in Afghanistan.
And that really gets to me andlike that.
I think that's an example whereI was like covering something
and I was like like reallypissed, to be honest, and like
made an effort as much as Icould to pitch these stories and
to try and get it to stay inthe news.
Even people don't talk aboutthis anymore because it got
replaced with Gaza or it gotplaced with Ukraine and feeling

(54:22):
sort of in my heart that like wehave legitimately abandoned
these people we promised them,especially the ones who helped
Canadian service members.
You know we said we'd be therefor them.
And we said we'd be there forthem.
You know, if the moment camewhen we, you know, lost this
conflict and I think we reallyscrewed them over and it was
left to former Canadian soldiersto literally volunteer and put

(54:46):
together like evacuation effortsto get these people out, as
opposed to the government thathad made these promises to them.
I think that's an example ofsomething that, um, I really get
angry about, and you know I dida speech recently about it at
the um, uh, the, the royalcanadian military institute, uh
and uh, you know I donate money,uh, to help um with these

(55:06):
efforts.
So that's an example.
You know I donate money to helpwith these efforts.
So that's an example.
You know you're not it's hardright, like I still believe in
objectivity in journalism.
You know this is an example ofobviously kind of where you can
take sides, but you do have towatch that.
But every now and then and Ithink a lot of journalists will

(55:28):
tell you this there's that oneissue that kind of tugs at your
heartstrings that you getinvolved in.
Then you find yourself gettingreally involved in, and then it
kind of, to a certain extent,becomes a part of your life.
I was in an Uber ride a few daysago and I was speaking to a kid
in his early 20s.
And this was amidst all thistalk of Canada being broken and

(55:50):
the trade war looming and us,you know, feeling bad for
ourselves.
And this kid was fromAfghanistan.
His dad had passed away.
He grew up, he grew up inAfghanistan.
His mother was still over thereunder the Taliban.
Apparently, they don't give hertoo much trouble, but over
there, aaron, like women, aren'teven allowed to appear in front

(56:13):
of windows anymore.
They're denied education.
They're just, you know,complete second class citizens,
barely treated like humans.
Anyway, this kid, he lovedCanada and he would not stop
talking about how, when he wasapplying to leave and get out of
there.
It was his dream to come toCanada.
And this is today.

(56:37):
This is the Canada that'ssupposedly crap that we talk
about being bad.
This is a kid who spent ninemonths in a refugee camp in the
Middle East with hopes of comingto Canada, who made it here and
is taking English lessons anddriving Uber, and who had a
giant smile across his facenonetheless and was just so
happy to be here, had heard thatmaybe the country was better 10
or so years ago, but it didn'teliminate the smile from his

(57:00):
face and, and you know what Iasked for his number.
That sounds weird, like I wantedto date him or something, but I
was so struck by this kid that,you know, as a journalist,
you're like my gosh.
There might be like a storyabout this or maybe I should
interview him for the podcast,because you know we've got to
tell good stories as well.
There's so much doom and gloomand and negative whining about

(57:21):
what goes on here and I agree,there's like so many deep-seated
problems with the country, butit's just so refreshing to hear
from someone and get theperspective I talked about at
the beginning, pull the lensback and realize that like, yes,
there's systems that arebuckling and struggling, but,
like man, we have a lot to offerstill and we should we should,

(57:42):
you know make even betterversion of this country in the
future.
And people are still dying,literally dying to get here.

Aaron Pete (57:48):
How can people follow along with your work?
Check out the podcast.
How do people stay connected?

Harrison Lowman (57:53):
Well, I don't know.
I have a raft of differentthings I'm doing Thanks to the
hub.
You can visit us at wwwthehubca.
We have a podcast of our ownwhere we interview interesting
people called Hub Dialogues.
You can find that within theHub Podcast channel.
And then I do and you heard mecomplaining a lot about the
media I do a media criticismpodcast called Full Press with

(58:16):
Tara Henley and Peter Menziesover at Hub podcast as well.
So that's where you can listento me.
You know, go on and on anddrone on and on even more,
should you be so interested.

Aaron Pete (58:28):
Harrison, it's an honor to know you.
I appreciate all of yoursupport helping get my
perspective out there on the hub.
I have a lot of admiration forthe approach you take.
I think that humility and thateagerness to learn really shines
through in this interview andin your approach, and I think
that gives people a lot of hopeand a lot of space to think
about things differently.

(58:49):
I love this space because Ithink for a very long time we
treated people like truckdrivers, labor workers, like
they didn't have a lot to thinkabout.
And just hearing about how manypeople who are truck drivers,
who listen to long form podcastsand learn about all types of
topics and really engaged incomplex issues, it gives me a
pause to know that we arestewarded by people we might not

(59:12):
expect in our society.
There are voices out there youmight not expect, have a lot to
say or a lot of wisdom behindthat, and that gives me a lot of
hope.
And that's what I get from youis just a willingness and an
openness to learn more every day, and I think we can get through
all of this if we bring thatkind of mindset forward.

Harrison Lowman (59:29):
There's no shame in changing our minds,
Aaron, and listening to thesefolks and then saying, oh, I
didn't think about it that way,I was wrong, and you know
building layers of perspective.
So thank you for your praise.
You're obviously biased.
You're very biased in yourthinking to me, I'm
non-objective.
Yeah, you're a good guyyourself and yeah, let's try and

(59:50):
stay positive.
I like to be pessimistic, soI'm surprised when things go
well, but I'll take that toheart and try to be more
positive moving forward.

Aaron Pete (59:58):
So you're working with kids because you can't be
too pessimistic.
You're working with the nextgeneration there.

Harrison Lowman (01:00:04):
Yeah, so when they don't?

Aaron Pete (01:00:08):
poo their pants, you're like.
Oh, we had a good day, Amazing.
Thank you again for beingwilling to do this and for
bringing such uniqueperspectives to Canadians.
Thanks, Eric.