August 11, 2025 • 44 mins
Squamish Nation Hereditary Chief Gibby Jacob to share unfiltered insights on leadership, reconciliation, land rights, cultural revitalization, and inspiring the next generation after 32 years on council with host Aaron Pete.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chief Gibby Jacob (00:04):
If you don't know where you come from, how
can you know where you want togo?
Aaron Pete (00:08):
Reconciliation is often talked about as something
that's needed.
Do you think real progress isbeing made?
Chief Gibby Jacob (00:14):
Money comes, money goes.
We'll get land, because that'llalways be there.
Aaron Pete (00:18):
How do you digest what's going on with Canada and
the United States?
Chief Gibby Jacob (00:21):
What I know I don't own.
I only know these thingsbecause the people allowed me to
learn them.
Aaron Pete (00:36):
Chief Gibby Jacobs, thank you so much for being
willing to make the trip out andshare your time.
Would you mind first providinga brief introduction?
Your time would?
Chief Gibby Jacob (00:44):
you mind first providing a brief
introduction.
My English name is Chief GibbyJacob and I'm from the
Homolsticin Reserve Capilano isthe white man's name for it and
that is where Lionsgate Bridgedissects our reserve number five
, which dissects our reservenumber five.
(01:06):
My ancestral name is Cockletonand I'm one of the hereditary
chiefs from the Squamish Nationand have been one since 2009.
And I only became thehereditary chief after my oldest
sister passed and she was thefirst woman chief in our tribe
(01:30):
and it was a tough one to followher because she was just such a
great, great person.
And I'm the youngest of ninechildren and two died before I
was even born, One fromrheumatic fever, a hole in the
heart, and the other one, twomonths old, from pneumonia.
And so I was the only one of mywhole family who was born on
(01:58):
the Comaltitussin Reserve.
All the others, older ones,were all over in the next
reserve, over Oslolo MissionReserve.
So I've lived all my 73 yearswithin one block of where I live
right now and I paid for andbuilt my own home when I was 25
(02:18):
years old oh my gosh, and I'mpretty proud of that.
I was the first one in thetribe and so that's where I'm
from and I will never, everleave there, Not even when I'm
in the box, because they'regoing to put me in the ground
there.
Aaron Pete (02:37):
Beautiful.
I'm wondering you've had suchan illustrious career.
Would you mind taking us backto the beginning and some of
those early steps that broughtyou towards leadership?
Chief Gibby Jacob (02:49):
Well, as a boy.
You know I have always playedsports and excelled at all of
them and all team sports.
You know I never played anyindividual sports other than
just at turning 55, I startedgolf.
I should have not started golf,it was fun.
(03:10):
So, anyways, a lot of myteachings came from being a part
of a team and you know that'sall pretty much I knew from
other than what my parentstaught me about the values and
principles you should live by.
So I played soccer at thehighest level in the region.
(03:34):
I played lacrosse at thehighest level senior A lacrosse,
junior A lacrosse.
I played senior B for the NorthShore Indians, which is my home
team, and never playedbasketball because I'd have
probably fallen out in the firsttwo minutes, because I just
like to hit people, and so a lotof my interactions with people
(03:59):
really came from.
You know, I was usually thecaptain or co-captain of the
team.
I always been one to just tellpeople what.
I think.
You're not playing good enough,you've got to try harder.
We need you.
So give them the rough stufffirst, then tell them what you
want from them at the end.
So you're always providing thatI need you, we need you.
(04:24):
Discussion.
Aaron Pete (04:25):
And where do you think that came from for you?
Chief Gibby Jacob (04:29):
Oh well, my older brothers.
You know my oldest brother,he's 88 now and he was always a
captain of the team and you knowI watched him as a young kid,
you know, and how he interactedwith everybody.
Watched him as a young kid, youknow, and how he interacted
with everybody.
He wasn't a, uh, the loudestguy, nor the bossiest guy, but
(04:49):
he was, you know, tell you whathe thinks and uh, so I think
that's really where it came from.
And uh, of course, my dad wasalways, you know, uh, king of
the roost and you know, healways just said you got to do
this, you got to do that.
And so that's pretty much whereI got my teachings from, is my
(05:09):
siblings and my dad.
Aaron Pete (05:12):
Right and leading up to chief.
Was that clear from an earlyage?
When did that start to solidifyitself?
Chief Gibby Jacob (05:36):
Going in 1980 , 79, 80, I, along with some of
my, decided that we were goingto go from individual bands to
become the Squamish Indian Band,because what was happening in
the lower mainland is that thegovernments were complicit with
(05:56):
railways and municipalities forinfrastructure works.
They were taking our land.
So it was the easiest and leastresistance because we weren't
the lords of our land.
You know it was a federalgovernment.
You know we still don't own ourown land.
You know you're a lawyer, right.
Aaron Pete (06:18):
Yes, I have a legal background.
Chief Gibby Jacob (06:20):
Yeah, yeah, so you know that we don't own
our land.
It's held for the use andbenefit of the Indians, yeah,
and so we really didn't have asay.
So we lost a heck of a lot ofland and thousands of acres.
Squamish Valley, you know tworeserves, 1,200 acres, that's.
Pacific Great Eastern Railwaywas a part of that taking.
(06:45):
It's the first place that theirlines hit the water, their rail
lines hit the water.
So wherever the first place is,they want to put a port there.
So actually the first name ofthe town of Squamish they call
it Squamish now is Newport,because that's what they wanted
to put there.
That's why they wanted ourlands.
(07:06):
They told us you know, you cansell it to us or we'll
expropriate it and we'll giveyou what we want to give you.
That was the nature of theirnegotiations back in the day,
and so, knowing the historyfairly decently, of my people,
(07:30):
all the things that werehappening and part of the
governance change was inrelation to we have to go
another level.
And so a bunch of us youngfolks I was about 30 at the time
said we had a meeting of ourpeople, called a general meeting
(07:53):
.
We put a resolution forwardthat stated we want to change
from this system which is achief, becomes a counselor for
life.
You know, I went to a fewmeetings and I watched the
proceedings and you know therewas quite a few fairly old men
(08:15):
there and they were napping halfthe time.
So I thought there's somethingwrong with this picture.
You know, we need some vitalityin here.
You know, we need some youthwho are going to be dedicated to
the people and, uh, you knowthe needs of our people not that
they weren't I'm not sayingthey weren't but uh, you know,
(08:36):
we just needed a differentdirection to to look and travel,
and so we made that change anduh, uh.
So, you know, just going from mysports background to a
leadership position, you know, Ijust basically took all of
those things that I, all thoselessons, yeah, and when I speak
(09:01):
outside of our community and inmy community, I tell people you
hear through here your ears,process it through your mind
those things that becomeimportant to you, what somebody
says to you, they become a partof your truth.
Where does that land your heartExactly?
(09:22):
So that's what you tell others.
You know, that's what you teachothers, whoever.
You know it doesn't matter whatcolor age.
You know I love talking to thelittle kids because they're
probably more attentive than oldtimers who are sitting there
with their iPads and iPhones andyou know missing half of what
you're saying.
(09:43):
So, anyways, I ran for counciland I was on council for 32
consecutive years and, yeah, oneof the longest serving of the
more contemporary ones.
A couple were longer, but Iloved being there.
(10:05):
I loved doing the work becauseI knew why I was there.
My role was to be there onbehalf of the people.
It was always that for me,there's no glory in being a
chief or a counselor.
Most of the time you're gettingyou know what on, but future
(10:30):
generations will be able to lookback and say those guys did
pretty darn good, just the, justthe way I do when I look back
at the old concerts of the dayway back when that, well, that
was a smart move, you know,amalgamating number one, you
know, into the Squamish IndianBand.
You know that was probably themost strategic move out of any
(10:54):
that has come to our people, andso I think my path was set from
an early age.
To answer part of your questionwas you know how did you start
to think about being a chief,just from my athletics, you know
(11:19):
, and being a leader at thatlevel and you know, not
everybody could be treated thesame.
You know there were some primadonnas and then there was just
some good players and there wasgood people and not so good
players but good people.
So you had to.
You know massage, so manydifferent types of things and
(11:41):
people.
So, and my oldest sister.
I lost two sisters in six monthsfrom brain aneurysms and my
sister, who was just two yearsolder than me.
She was the second one whopassed.
My oldest sister, who was achief, was the first one and my
(12:03):
mom had I think it was five ofus kids left and she called us
all together and she said youknow, I love you all so much.
You know I love you equally.
And I said, mom, I thought Iwas the best one being the baby
anyway.
She said you guys are gonnadecide who's gonna be the next
(12:28):
chief.
I'm not choosing between you,so you know you guys make the
decision work it out amongstyourselves, pardon, work it out
amongst yourselves yeah, yeah.
And my oldest brother saidyou're it pointed at me and he
says you're the logical one tobe the chief.
You're working for the people.
My next brother he's 85 now, 86soon.
(12:50):
He just said, yeah, I agree.
And then my two sisters I hadleft at the time just said yeah,
we agree, so that was in 2009.
Aaron Pete (13:02):
Yeah, Can I ask, just looking at where we've come
and seeing from the beginning,do you think real progress is
being made?
Reconciliation is often talkedabout as something that's needed
, something governments need todo better on, something that
people need to do better on.
Do you feel like we've made alot of progress since when you
started on this journey?
Chief Gibby Jacob (13:23):
Yeah, when I first got on council, you know
we were trying to develop someland in West Vancouver.
It says you guys are a part ofour municipality and you know we
flipped that.
No, no, no, you're in ourtraditional territory.
You know you're juniorgovernment, you're nothing more
(13:43):
than a junior government.
You got no say over our land.
And uh, what they said was well, you sure you can develop, but
you can only develop what we sayyou can develop.
And uh, I watched the seniorleaders, like late Chief Joe
Mathias I don't know if you evermet him, he was probably the
(14:04):
most brilliant guy that I'veever known, or one of them
anyways and some of the othersenior guys had been there a
long time.
They just went up one side ofthe mirror and down the other
and they were going to do it ofthe mariner down the other, and
we're going to do it.
You know what they tried to dowas use the infrastructure
against us, saying we're notgoing to let you tie into the
(14:25):
water systems, the sewagesystems.
You know All of that stuff andwe just said, well, we'll build
our own.
You know we'll develop so muchwe'll be able to afford our own.
You know we don't need you,never needed you to start with.
You guys just came aboutbecause of the provincial
government, otherwise you guyswouldn't even be here if
(14:48):
Squamish had its way.
So, anyways, we went down thatroad and it was a pretty
interesting time, you know.
But during my time and being atthe most senior level in my
(15:11):
side of the nation operations, Ithink we did nine agreements.
Aaron Pete (15:22):
Municipal type service agreements.
Chief Gibby Jacob (15:23):
Municipal regional, because we've got
three regions in our traditionalterritory Sunshine Coast,
squamish-lillooet RegionalDistrict, and then we've got the
Vancouver Greater VancouverRegional District at the time.
So we did all of them.
It took us about a year and abit to get them all done and we
(15:45):
had to really be cautious aboutnot giving something that you
know others go.
How come you gave them that?
Yeah, like spoiled kids, right.
Aaron Pete (15:56):
So do you think those relationships are like?
There's a different to me,there's a different energy to
how people come to the tablethan than, perhaps, in those
early days.
Is that true?
Chief Gibby Jacob (16:06):
Well, I think there's more education that has
gone to municipal.
People are running formunicipal and provincial
governments, right yeah, andthat's thanks mostly to the
Supreme Court of Canada.
And that's thanks mostly to theSupreme Court of Canada.
You know it's hundreds ofsuccessful lawsuits that have
been filed from this province.
This is the most litigiousprovince in Canada.
(16:28):
We've won more lawsuits herethan all of the other provinces
combined.
And you know we're just goingto take.
You know you can only do whatwe're going to tell you you can
do, and that continues today.
You know that continues today.
Aaron Pete (16:45):
I love your thoughts on that.
This is an issue that I'm stilltrying to work through.
I don't know if you've heardabout Bills 14 and 15 from the
provincial government thatpropose a different approach to
trying to push forward on majorinfrastructure projects.
I haven't heard it.
No, the BCAFN the BC Assemblyof First Nations has come out
strongly against it and pushedback against David Eby and the
(17:07):
work going on at the provinciallevel.
And it's a tough issue for meto square, because the Premier
of BC, david Eby, argues we'reunder a lot of pressure because
of these tariffs, so we have topush forward on building our own
economy and separatingourselves to a certain extent
from the United States.
(17:29):
The BCAFN and Regional Chief,terry Teejee, argues you can't
do that at the expense of FirstNations engagement and
consultation with us.
And Premier Eby argues that'snot the plan.
This just gives us the tools tomove forward and I'm trying to
figure out what that balance is.
Do I take a provincial approachand understand that the tariffs
(17:53):
are going to have huge impactson not just Indigenous people
but across all businesses andacross every British Colombian?
Or do I side and focus more onhow this impacts First Nation
communities specifically?
And I'm trying to find thebalance.
How do you recommend?
Chief Gibby Jacob (18:08):
we think about these types of issues.
That's a tough one because theygot so many cards, right, yeah,
but in a very simplistic view.
You know, okay, you know, ifyou guys are going to push ahead
with it, we want 50%.
We want to protect our culture,our lands, our language.
You know all of the sacredspots that they continue to dig
(18:28):
up.
We want these things as a goodfaith, right, you know?
If you can't do that, then whatare we talking about?
You taking everything, we getnothing.
Yeah, you know that would be mystarting salvo.
That.
Then what are we talking about?
You taking everything, we getnothing.
Yeah, you know that's, uh, thatwould be my starting salvo.
You know, if I was sitting innegotiations, right, you know,
and, uh, you know, I, I don'tthink they'd ever give that, you
(18:50):
know, yeah, but you start highand work down, right, yeah how
do you digest what's going onwith Canada and the United
States right now?
Same old, same old.
We're not in the game and Idon't know if we'll ever get in
(19:11):
that game, much to my chagrin,as I always ask myself what is
our leverage?
What leverage do we have?
We have rights, title, inherentrights, inherent title.
We push for my nation, we pushfor land.
Just for you want to make adeal, it's going to cost you and
(19:35):
money, money comes, money goes.
My nation at the time we wereburning about 70 million a year.
So I said well, you know, Itold my team, I said I want land
, we'll get land because that'llalways be there.
You know we don't have to goscrounging for land to house our
people.
You know it's all reserves.
(19:55):
I don't know how big thereserves are around here, but
ours are pretty small.
Yeah, my reserve, capilano, isthe biggest one and uh squamish
is lower mainland and it's only525 acres.
And we got bigger ones uh up inuh squamish valley, but uh,
just about all of them are inthe one one to 200 year flood
(20:16):
plain and you guys have facedthat here from the Fraser right,
exactly.
So for me I'd always say thatyou know, if there's gonna be a
deal made, you take one acre, wewant 10 or 100, whatever it is.
So don't give up ever on theland, because it belongs to you
(20:38):
anyways and you know, if yougotta negotiate it, you gotta
negotiate.
We bought land that wasfee-simple land.
We looked at the makeup of ourland and most of it was in 45
degrees or more and you can'tbuild anything on that.
So when there was availableacreage and we could put it in
(21:03):
as part of an agreement, theprovince would pay for it.
We'd get the land.
All we're doing is rentingcertainty.
You know, and that's animportant thing to remember Tell
them you know your time.
When this is over, whateverthis is, we want that land back.
(21:24):
So it was always a reversionaryinterest that we put in there.
Important thing interesting.
Aaron Pete (21:32):
The other piece I wanted to ask about we're
hearing more and more from thefederal and provincial
government about trying tocreate economic opportunities
and trying to grow our way outof a lot of the spending that I
think is taking place bothprovincially and federally.
You were involved in bearslayer and I think that provides
a lot of the spending that Ithink is taking place both
provincially and federally.
You were involved in Bears Lairand I think that provides a lot
of inspiration to young people.
Would you mind sharing thehistory of that?
Chief Gibby Jacob (21:55):
Bears Lair.
Well, my friend Gina, ginaJackson from Sechelt.
She's such a great lady, very,very bright, and I didn't have a
heck of a lot to do, to tellyou the truth.
But she asked me to attend anumber of times to talk to the
(22:16):
people who were gettingnominated for the awards.
You know people who are people,right, and you get nervous, you
get scared.
I could tell they were allscared when I first walked in
there.
There was about six of them andI looked at them.
I said what are you scared of?
They said I don't know.
(22:39):
Well, why are you scared if Idon't know?
Right, if you don't know what'sgoing to happen, you know, just
let it roll, roll with it.
That's all I've ever done.
I spoke in front of over 2billion people at the transfer
of the flag in Turin, from Turinto Worcester, vancouver, right,
(23:02):
and I was so ill I got a virus.
I was so ill, I got a virus theday we landed, I just totally
didn't feel good at all and Ijust wanted to come home.
I had to stay because I wasdoing the speaking part in the
transfer, welcoming the world toour territory, right, yeah, and
(23:25):
did it our traditional way, theCoast Salish way.
We had a coin in a cardboardbox it was part of the whole
transfer and so I askedeverybody to take that coin out.
This is symbolic of us invitingyou to our territory and our
(23:49):
country for the games.
I didn't say it all like that,but basically that was the gist
of it.
And the only ones who respondedwere the Maori from Aotearoa,
new Zealand.
They came to our house inSquamish and there's probably
about 75, 80 of them, and wewelcomed them with a song and
(24:14):
their tradition's a lot likeours.
So they responded they did thehongi.
I don't know if you know whatthat is.
I don't know when they rubnoses.
Oh, wow, yeah.
And a lot of our people got upand, you know, didn't know what
was going on, you know, yeah,but yeah, so was I scared.
(24:35):
I couldn't even see the guystanding next to me.
There were five of us chiefs onstage, but there were so many
lights like this this is nothingcompared to that, you know,
just beaming down on you.
Lights like this, this isnothing compared to that Just
beaming down on you.
So, you know, I didn't evenfeel a thing, you know, I just
wanted to get it over and go laydown.
(24:56):
I was just so sick.
Aaron Pete (25:00):
What does it mean to you to be able to see, from my
perspective, to be able to seeIndigenous people start to
flourish?
We're starting to see theculture start to be revitalized,
the language start to berevitalized and people being
able to be immersed in it andgrow in a way that I imagine 50
years ago would have beenunimaginable.
To where we are today powwowsbeing attended at records
(25:23):
numbers.
What does that mean to you?
Chief Gibby Jacob (25:25):
What it means to me is people are in need
spiritually.
You know, if you look atmedicine wheel, you know
physically, spiritually,emotionally, and you know people
are just looking for you knowwhere do I find, where do I find
(25:46):
these things?
And it doesn't matter whatcolor you are, you for you know.
Where do I find these things,it doesn't matter what color you
are, people are in need.
There's more spiritualityneeded today than ever.
If you look at what thebankrupt USA, they got nothing
left Fighting each other.
I'm afraid they're going tohave a civil war down there one
day.
But anyways, that bothers me.
Aaron Pete (26:11):
Absolutely One of my last couple questions Are you
aware of the book Grave Error?
Chief Gibby Jacob (26:18):
No.
Aaron Pete (26:19):
Okay, it's a book written by True North Media in
regards to questioning some ofthe new claims about unmarked
graves and it's a very difficultconversation.
I've interviewed the peoplewho's helped put that book
together to get an understandingof where they were coming from,
and their basic presuppositionis that some of the claims are
(26:39):
being a bit exaggerated and thatthey haven't actually found the
bones in Tecumseh Loops, andthat that's their contention is
that they did radar of theground but they didn't go and
dig up those bodies.
They don't have the bones to beable to demonstrate that.
And the counterpoint from myunderstanding with Takam Loops
is we're talking to ourcommunity, we're trying to work
(27:01):
that out internally.
Do we upset their bodies?
Do we do that digging?
And that's a complicatedquestion for those communities
to decide and I'm just wonderingif you have any advice or
wisdom on how we approach thatdifficult conversation.
Chief Gibby Jacob (27:18):
First big problem I've seen in this whole
thing is all of those kidsweren't from those villages.
I had family who went to thatschool in the 50s.
You know you can't get toeverybody.
You know who may have had afamily member go to that school
(27:40):
and as we roll away from thattime more and more people pass
and whatever knowledge they hadgoes with them.
So it was a couple of thosehuge issues for me.
You know who has a right to saythe chiefs and the membership
(28:00):
from Tekemploops.
I don't know, that's kind of arhetorical question, but for me
we always fought in Squamishagainst anybody doing anything
anywhere near a graveyard.
If we knew what was going on,or burials, we wouldn't stop
(28:22):
them.
And sometimes they justcontinue to keep going.
And I got so angry that one ofthe provincial guys we were
meeting with I said you knowwhat I'm going to do.
I said you guys won't stop.
I'm going to go in that bigcemetery on 41st and Fraser.
I'm just going to dig somebodyup.
I don't care who it is, I don'tknow them, I don't know the
(28:47):
family.
So that's what I'm going to dobecause you guys are doing it to
us.
You can't do that Exactly,Neither can you guys, so stop it
.
Stop it, they did, they just.
Aaron Pete (29:05):
You framed it in an important way.
You got to hit them where ithurts.
My last question for you iswe're seeing a lot of growth and
a lot of young people wantingto take on leadership positions.
What advice do you have foryoung people starting to take
those leadership positions on?
Chief Gibby Jacob (29:24):
I would say talk to the vets you know the
people who've done it in thepast and find out the pros and
cons of being in the leadershipposition, because most young
people don't understand thatyou're taking on a legal
responsibility.
You personally are actuallyliable for the decisions you
(29:44):
make on behalf of your people,and you know I mean not just the
legal side of it.
If you don't know where youcome from, how can you know
where you want to go?
So you've got to understand thepast in order to move towards
the future, and so that's theimportant thing for me.
(30:06):
We've got an election coming upin September 25th, for we had a
council that authorized ourcustom election system to be
revamped.
So the guy who got the mandate,he just went further and
(30:28):
further and further afield andpassed what the mandate was, and
it created a referendum onelection law.
And with your legal training,you know changing a policy
directive as opposed to tryingto change a law is a totally
(30:49):
different kettle of fish, andthey made it so difficult.
It was a 147-page document andI'm a pretty intelligent guy,
but when I was going through itI holy crap.
I said I can't understand mostof this stuff.
She'd go 10 pages in.
(31:11):
Then it refers you back tosection 1A, bracket C, bracket
small 2.
And you look at it, I forgotwhat I was over here.
You know our people narrowmajority approved it.
As time rolled along, a lot ofthings became apparent.
(31:35):
You know the guy who ran forchair and this is a chair
elected by the people.
Nobody knew that, nobody ranagainst him, so he got in by
acclamation and just made a messof things.
So our people just kept gettingangry and they would come talk
to me because they knew I was oncouncil for all those years and
(31:55):
I'm a hereditary chief.
My responsibilities, eventhough I'm not on council, you
know to be responsive to thepeople and their needs, right,
yeah, so I wasn't reallyinvolved in the beginning to
change this stuff.
But the Matrix, you know theycome and talk to me about it.
(32:15):
They say you've got to leadthis thing.
You know You're the only guy.
And I said no, no, no, no,that's a wrong move.
I said what people will thinkis oh, that Gibby's just after
power again.
And you know I did my 32 years,40, including an employee.
(32:38):
Right?
I said Matrix, you've got toroll with us.
I'm going to stand beside youevery step of the way and
everything that I know istactics and you know those
things.
I said I'm there because I wantto change this thing too, but
I'm the wrong person to look atrunning with this thing and be
(32:58):
the face of it right.
But the reason I'm telling youabout the selection and be the
face of it right, right.
But the reason I'm telling youabout this election, I thought
about it, thought about it, andthere's so many young people
that our elders don't know.
I don't know them all.
There's family members who cameback from Bill C-31, and their
(33:20):
kids are now coming back.
Right came back from Bill C-31,and their kids are now coming
back.
Right?
So if you don't know anybody,you know you're not going to get
any votes.
And there's some running.
I don't know why they'rerunning, because I don't know
them, you know.
But I went and I secured ChiefJoe Mathias Center.
I don't know if you've everbeen there or not.
No, I haven't.
It's on my village, homolstusen, and I secured a morning there
(33:46):
and what's going to happen isI'm going to invite all the
candidates in to come withwhatever you know, come to meet
with whatever elders show up, sothat you know it's going to be
very informal.
Hi, my name is, you know myfamily, my family, is this right
, and I always think that.
One of my other things I alwaysuse in the speech is you can
(34:10):
see this hand in one of threeways.
This is where we all want toget to right Exactly, all want
to get to right exactly so youknow that's.
I really want our elders tohave a a sound reason for voting
(34:33):
for anybody, not just becauseyou're my nephew or you know
that doesn't make any senseanymore.
Because we're a billion, we'regoing to be a billion dollar
business.
Wow, we can't have people inthere who have no qualifications
on anything.
Aaron Pete (34:43):
We just went through the exact same thing, where we
actually hosted anall-candidates meeting.
People posted online why theywere running, what they were
going to do differently or whatthey were going to bring to the
table, had people run on realplatforms of what action they
were going to take, and it wasjust so heartwarming to me,
because that's how we grow.
You need to be able to say whatyou're going to do.
Then you get your three-year orfour-year term and you come
(35:06):
back.
Did you deliver on what yousaid you were going to do,
instead of going it's thisfamily or it's that family, or I
only vote for my cousins or Ionly vote for those people.
Measurables yeah, that makes itvery hard to grow, because then
people aren't being heldaccountable for the actions
they're taking and did you showup to the meetings?
Chief Gibby Jacob (35:22):
Of course We've got a number of counselors
that don't even show up tomeetings, Exactly, and it's so
horrible.
We've gone from face-to-facewhen I was there.
Now they're allowed to be on TVscreens Online.
Yeah, oh my.
Aaron Pete (35:36):
God, yeah, you've got to be here in the room.
Chief Gibby Jacob (35:38):
You've got to be those after-meeting the room
.
You gotta be, you know, thoseafter meeting conversations.
Yeah, exactly.
And then, uh, if the chairdidn't like, didn't like, you
you'd.
You know, you only got a coupleminutes to speak and then you
got no chance to reply afterthat.
Exactly you know what.
What a waste, you know.
But uh, anyways, the otherthing I did was, uh, and I
(36:00):
haven't booked a room yet, butafter that meeting with the
elders, I'm going to bookanother morning or maybe a whole
day at Chief Joe's.
Get some of our senior retiredcounselors and leaders,
matriarchs, come to a sessionwith all of the candidates and
give them the Squamish 101.
(36:22):
Beautiful, and this is where wewere.
This was amalgamation, this wasbefore amalgamation.
You know, this is how we got towhere we are.
We've done a chronology.
When I was running the show inmy office, we did a chronology
from amalgamation to then.
It gets about 10, 11 years ago.
(36:44):
We ended up, but you know,could add another page on now.
We're just money isn'teverything, you know, I mean.
I mean we've got a lot now, youknow, and half the time people
don't know because they don'tunderstand how to read a
statement.
(37:04):
Right, you know where themoney's going, yeah, and then
they kind of put it into graphforms so much is going here, so
much is going there.
It doesn't tell you anything,yeah, except that the money's
gone.
Yeah, and no accountabilitythat way.
Yeah, that's one of my words toyou is, you know, as a chief,
(37:28):
you know people are going to belooking to you for the big
leadership, you know, and ifyou're true to what you say you
want to do, they'll have you inthere forever.
If you want to stay there,right, yeah.
But if they figure out, oh,this guy just lying blowing
smoke, you know you won't bethere very long, agreed, and so
(37:49):
that's an important thing.
You know, I was always at everymeeting, you know, even though
people were going to give mecrap, yeah, that's fine.
You know, I get that, we allget that every meeting, you know
.
And one of our ladies got incouncil and we were getting
non-confidence and this is ameeting-to-meeting thing, right,
(38:12):
we just get non-confidence.
So I just like water off aduck's back for me, right.
And I seen her hand go up and Ilooked over.
She's a couple years older thanme.
I wondered what she's going tosay.
Why can't we just be friends.
(38:33):
I just watched her laugh.
Oh, she blinked.
So I told her after I saidwe're going to get this every
meeting.
I said don't let it get to you,don't let it consume you.
They're not your enemies,they're your family.
They're just blowing steam.
I said end of the meeting,everybody will be fine again.
(38:54):
So I've gone through that, Idon't know how many times, but
it just is what it is.
That's the way of our world inSquamish.
Aaron Pete (39:04):
Beautiful.
Well, thank you so much forbeing willing to share your
insights.
I look to individuals likeyourself for inspiration and for
wisdom, and I'm just sograteful to have been able to
share this time with you.
Would you mind telling peoplehow they can follow your work?
Chief Gibby Jacob (39:20):
I'm doing a limited series documentary
Amazing, it's called Back to theFire.
We have a website,backtothefirenet.
It's really about traditionalteachings, leadership and the
teachings that you know peoplegot.
I understand Stephen Point washere before and you know got I
understand Stephen Point washere before and you know he's
(39:43):
just such a great man, and hiswife as well.
And where do you start from?
You know, none of us were everrich.
You know my parents both myparents worked.
My father had a massive strokewhen he was 47, I think Just
(40:04):
about killed him, but he cameback.
My mother worked in a fishcannery and that's the
background we came from.
Everybody worked.
My brothers and sisters, all ofthem worked, and so Beautiful,
and so how can people find that?
Well, you can go online.
(40:24):
It's not out in public yet.
We went to CBC and to APTN tosee if they'd give us a
broadcast license.
Both of them declined.
Wow, yeah, I mean, the guy whowe interviewed was Chief Bobby
Joseph.
Wow, dr Chief Peter Joseph.
(40:45):
Wow, dr Chief Peter Joseph,right, yeah, anyways, they
refused and they said oh, it's agreat project, but not what
we're looking for.
Oh, no, so we've got theSquamish one, we've probably
about 80% done that one.
And Tunaka Kinbasket, theCranbrook tribe, yeah, a couple
(41:07):
of lady friends of mine One wasa chief up there, sophie Pierre
for a long time.
Catherine Denise, still a leadnegotiator for the tribe, yeah,
and so I phoned them up, youknow, and told them what the
project was all about and hesaid we're in, perfect.
(41:27):
And Stephen, I just talked tohim on the way here, yeah, yeah,
siam Yep, and told him becausehe's one of the other ones I
tapped and on the shoulder afriend a long time, him and his
wife, and I said we're stillworking on this yet and I said
(41:48):
we're trying to get funding tofinish these two.
But if I can get more, you know, you're next in my mind who I
want to video for your lifestory and things that you want
to share, things that I have inhere.
I told my staff I told them I'mretiring At 65, I've been
(42:09):
around a long time.
I said my health isn't 100%, soyou know what I have left.
I got a small family and I wantto spend my time with my family
.
I said but here it is.
I said you know where I live,you know my phone number.
You need me for anything.
You come and just ask me.
(42:30):
I said, because what I know Idon't own.
I said I only know these thingsbecause the people allowed me
to learn them, and so some ofthem phone me, you know, and ask
me some historical questionsand thoughts about direction,
and I got a pretty strategicmind Agreed, yeah.
Aaron Pete (42:52):
Well, thank you so much for being willing to join
today.
It's been an absolute honor.
Chief Gibby Jacob (42:56):
Yeah, pleasure, pleasure to meet you
and good luck being a chief.
See you, see you, see you.
If you don't know where you come from, how
can you know where you want togo?
Aaron Pete (00:08):
Reconciliation is often talked about as something
that's needed.
Do you think real progress isbeing made?
Chief Gibby Jacob (00:14):
Money comes, money goes.
We'll get land, because that'llalways be there.
Aaron Pete (00:18):
How do you digest what's going on with Canada and
the United States?
Chief Gibby Jacob (00:21):
What I know I don't own.
I only know these thingsbecause the people allowed me to
learn them.
Aaron Pete (00:36):
Chief Gibby Jacobs, thank you so much for being
willing to make the trip out andshare your time.
Would you mind first providinga brief introduction?
Your time would?
Chief Gibby Jacob (00:44):
you mind first providing a brief
introduction.
My English name is Chief GibbyJacob and I'm from the
Homolsticin Reserve Capilano isthe white man's name for it and
that is where Lionsgate Bridgedissects our reserve number five
, which dissects our reservenumber five.
(01:06):
My ancestral name is Cockletonand I'm one of the hereditary
chiefs from the Squamish Nationand have been one since 2009.
And I only became thehereditary chief after my oldest
sister passed and she was thefirst woman chief in our tribe
(01:30):
and it was a tough one to followher because she was just such a
great, great person.
And I'm the youngest of ninechildren and two died before I
was even born, One fromrheumatic fever, a hole in the
heart, and the other one, twomonths old, from pneumonia.
And so I was the only one of mywhole family who was born on
(01:58):
the Comaltitussin Reserve.
All the others, older ones,were all over in the next
reserve, over Oslolo MissionReserve.
So I've lived all my 73 yearswithin one block of where I live
right now and I paid for andbuilt my own home when I was 25
(02:18):
years old oh my gosh, and I'mpretty proud of that.
I was the first one in thetribe and so that's where I'm
from and I will never, everleave there, Not even when I'm
in the box, because they'regoing to put me in the ground
there.
Aaron Pete (02:37):
Beautiful.
I'm wondering you've had suchan illustrious career.
Would you mind taking us backto the beginning and some of
those early steps that broughtyou towards leadership?
Chief Gibby Jacob (02:49):
Well, as a boy.
You know I have always playedsports and excelled at all of
them and all team sports.
You know I never played anyindividual sports other than
just at turning 55, I startedgolf.
I should have not started golf,it was fun.
(03:10):
So, anyways, a lot of myteachings came from being a part
of a team and you know that'sall pretty much I knew from
other than what my parentstaught me about the values and
principles you should live by.
So I played soccer at thehighest level in the region.
(03:34):
I played lacrosse at thehighest level senior A lacrosse,
junior A lacrosse.
I played senior B for the NorthShore Indians, which is my home
team, and never playedbasketball because I'd have
probably fallen out in the firsttwo minutes, because I just
like to hit people, and so a lotof my interactions with people
(03:59):
really came from.
You know, I was usually thecaptain or co-captain of the
team.
I always been one to just tellpeople what.
I think.
You're not playing good enough,you've got to try harder.
We need you.
So give them the rough stufffirst, then tell them what you
want from them at the end.
So you're always providing thatI need you, we need you.
(04:24):
Discussion.
Aaron Pete (04:25):
And where do you think that came from for you?
Chief Gibby Jacob (04:29):
Oh well, my older brothers.
You know my oldest brother,he's 88 now and he was always a
captain of the team and you knowI watched him as a young kid,
you know, and how he interactedwith everybody.
Watched him as a young kid, youknow, and how he interacted
with everybody.
He wasn't a, uh, the loudestguy, nor the bossiest guy, but
(04:49):
he was, you know, tell you whathe thinks and uh, so I think
that's really where it came from.
And uh, of course, my dad wasalways, you know, uh, king of
the roost and you know, healways just said you got to do
this, you got to do that.
And so that's pretty much whereI got my teachings from, is my
(05:09):
siblings and my dad.
Aaron Pete (05:12):
Right and leading up to chief.
Was that clear from an earlyage?
When did that start to solidifyitself?
Chief Gibby Jacob (05:36):
Going in 1980 , 79, 80, I, along with some of
my, decided that we were goingto go from individual bands to
become the Squamish Indian Band,because what was happening in
the lower mainland is that thegovernments were complicit with
(05:56):
railways and municipalities forinfrastructure works.
They were taking our land.
So it was the easiest and leastresistance because we weren't
the lords of our land.
You know it was a federalgovernment.
You know we still don't own ourown land.
You know you're a lawyer, right.
Aaron Pete (06:18):
Yes, I have a legal background.
Chief Gibby Jacob (06:20):
Yeah, yeah, so you know that we don't own
our land.
It's held for the use andbenefit of the Indians, yeah,
and so we really didn't have asay.
So we lost a heck of a lot ofland and thousands of acres.
Squamish Valley, you know tworeserves, 1,200 acres, that's.
Pacific Great Eastern Railwaywas a part of that taking.
(06:45):
It's the first place that theirlines hit the water, their rail
lines hit the water.
So wherever the first place is,they want to put a port there.
So actually the first name ofthe town of Squamish they call
it Squamish now is Newport,because that's what they wanted
to put there.
That's why they wanted ourlands.
(07:06):
They told us you know, you cansell it to us or we'll
expropriate it and we'll giveyou what we want to give you.
That was the nature of theirnegotiations back in the day,
and so, knowing the historyfairly decently, of my people,
(07:30):
all the things that werehappening and part of the
governance change was inrelation to we have to go
another level.
And so a bunch of us youngfolks I was about 30 at the time
said we had a meeting of ourpeople, called a general meeting
(07:53):
.
We put a resolution forwardthat stated we want to change
from this system which is achief, becomes a counselor for
life.
You know, I went to a fewmeetings and I watched the
proceedings and you know therewas quite a few fairly old men
(08:15):
there and they were napping halfthe time.
So I thought there's somethingwrong with this picture.
You know, we need some vitalityin here.
You know, we need some youthwho are going to be dedicated to
the people and, uh, you knowthe needs of our people not that
they weren't I'm not sayingthey weren't but uh, you know,
(08:36):
we just needed a differentdirection to to look and travel,
and so we made that change anduh, uh.
So, you know, just going from mysports background to a
leadership position, you know, Ijust basically took all of
those things that I, all thoselessons, yeah, and when I speak
(09:01):
outside of our community and inmy community, I tell people you
hear through here your ears,process it through your mind
those things that becomeimportant to you, what somebody
says to you, they become a partof your truth.
Where does that land your heartExactly?
(09:22):
So that's what you tell others.
You know, that's what you teachothers, whoever.
You know it doesn't matter whatcolor age.
You know I love talking to thelittle kids because they're
probably more attentive than oldtimers who are sitting there
with their iPads and iPhones andyou know missing half of what
you're saying.
(09:43):
So, anyways, I ran for counciland I was on council for 32
consecutive years and, yeah, oneof the longest serving of the
more contemporary ones.
A couple were longer, but Iloved being there.
(10:05):
I loved doing the work becauseI knew why I was there.
My role was to be there onbehalf of the people.
It was always that for me,there's no glory in being a
chief or a counselor.
Most of the time you're gettingyou know what on, but future
(10:30):
generations will be able to lookback and say those guys did
pretty darn good, just the, justthe way I do when I look back
at the old concerts of the dayway back when that, well, that
was a smart move, you know,amalgamating number one, you
know, into the Squamish IndianBand.
You know that was probably themost strategic move out of any
(10:54):
that has come to our people, andso I think my path was set from
an early age.
To answer part of your questionwas you know how did you start
to think about being a chief,just from my athletics, you know
(11:19):
, and being a leader at thatlevel and you know, not
everybody could be treated thesame.
You know there were some primadonnas and then there was just
some good players and there wasgood people and not so good
players but good people.
So you had to.
You know massage, so manydifferent types of things and
(11:41):
people.
So, and my oldest sister.
I lost two sisters in six monthsfrom brain aneurysms and my
sister, who was just two yearsolder than me.
She was the second one whopassed.
My oldest sister, who was achief, was the first one and my
(12:03):
mom had I think it was five ofus kids left and she called us
all together and she said youknow, I love you all so much.
You know I love you equally.
And I said, mom, I thought Iwas the best one being the baby
anyway.
She said you guys are gonnadecide who's gonna be the next
(12:28):
chief.
I'm not choosing between you,so you know you guys make the
decision work it out amongstyourselves, pardon, work it out
amongst yourselves yeah, yeah.
And my oldest brother saidyou're it pointed at me and he
says you're the logical one tobe the chief.
You're working for the people.
My next brother he's 85 now, 86soon.
(12:50):
He just said, yeah, I agree.
And then my two sisters I hadleft at the time just said yeah,
we agree, so that was in 2009.
Aaron Pete (13:02):
Yeah, Can I ask, just looking at where we've come
and seeing from the beginning,do you think real progress is
being made?
Reconciliation is often talkedabout as something that's needed
, something governments need todo better on, something that
people need to do better on.
Do you feel like we've made alot of progress since when you
started on this journey?
Chief Gibby Jacob (13:23):
Yeah, when I first got on council, you know
we were trying to develop someland in West Vancouver.
It says you guys are a part ofour municipality and you know we
flipped that.
No, no, no, you're in ourtraditional territory.
You know you're juniorgovernment, you're nothing more
(13:43):
than a junior government.
You got no say over our land.
And uh, what they said was well, you sure you can develop, but
you can only develop what we sayyou can develop.
And uh, I watched the seniorleaders, like late Chief Joe
Mathias I don't know if you evermet him, he was probably the
(14:04):
most brilliant guy that I'veever known, or one of them
anyways and some of the othersenior guys had been there a
long time.
They just went up one side ofthe mirror and down the other
and they were going to do it ofthe mariner down the other, and
we're going to do it.
You know what they tried to dowas use the infrastructure
against us, saying we're notgoing to let you tie into the
(14:25):
water systems, the sewagesystems.
You know All of that stuff andwe just said, well, we'll build
our own.
You know we'll develop so muchwe'll be able to afford our own.
You know we don't need you,never needed you to start with.
You guys just came aboutbecause of the provincial
government, otherwise you guyswouldn't even be here if
(14:48):
Squamish had its way.
So, anyways, we went down thatroad and it was a pretty
interesting time, you know.
But during my time and being atthe most senior level in my
(15:11):
side of the nation operations, Ithink we did nine agreements.
Aaron Pete (15:22):
Municipal type service agreements.
Chief Gibby Jacob (15:23):
Municipal regional, because we've got
three regions in our traditionalterritory Sunshine Coast,
squamish-lillooet RegionalDistrict, and then we've got the
Vancouver Greater VancouverRegional District at the time.
So we did all of them.
It took us about a year and abit to get them all done and we
(15:45):
had to really be cautious aboutnot giving something that you
know others go.
How come you gave them that?
Yeah, like spoiled kids, right.
Aaron Pete (15:56):
So do you think those relationships are like?
There's a different to me,there's a different energy to
how people come to the tablethan than, perhaps, in those
early days.
Is that true?
Chief Gibby Jacob (16:06):
Well, I think there's more education that has
gone to municipal.
People are running formunicipal and provincial
governments, right yeah, andthat's thanks mostly to the
Supreme Court of Canada.
And that's thanks mostly to theSupreme Court of Canada.
You know it's hundreds ofsuccessful lawsuits that have
been filed from this province.
This is the most litigiousprovince in Canada.
(16:28):
We've won more lawsuits herethan all of the other provinces
combined.
And you know we're just goingto take.
You know you can only do whatwe're going to tell you you can
do, and that continues today.
You know that continues today.
Aaron Pete (16:45):
I love your thoughts on that.
This is an issue that I'm stilltrying to work through.
I don't know if you've heardabout Bills 14 and 15 from the
provincial government thatpropose a different approach to
trying to push forward on majorinfrastructure projects.
I haven't heard it.
No, the BCAFN the BC Assemblyof First Nations has come out
strongly against it and pushedback against David Eby and the
(17:07):
work going on at the provinciallevel.
And it's a tough issue for meto square, because the Premier
of BC, david Eby, argues we'reunder a lot of pressure because
of these tariffs, so we have topush forward on building our own
economy and separatingourselves to a certain extent
from the United States.
(17:29):
The BCAFN and Regional Chief,terry Teejee, argues you can't
do that at the expense of FirstNations engagement and
consultation with us.
And Premier Eby argues that'snot the plan.
This just gives us the tools tomove forward and I'm trying to
figure out what that balance is.
Do I take a provincial approachand understand that the tariffs
(17:53):
are going to have huge impactson not just Indigenous people
but across all businesses andacross every British Colombian?
Or do I side and focus more onhow this impacts First Nation
communities specifically?
And I'm trying to find thebalance.
How do you recommend?
Chief Gibby Jacob (18:08):
we think about these types of issues.
That's a tough one because theygot so many cards, right, yeah,
but in a very simplistic view.
You know, okay, you know, ifyou guys are going to push ahead
with it, we want 50%.
We want to protect our culture,our lands, our language.
You know all of the sacredspots that they continue to dig
(18:28):
up.
We want these things as a goodfaith, right, you know?
If you can't do that, then whatare we talking about?
You taking everything, we getnothing.
Yeah, you know that would be mystarting salvo.
That.
Then what are we talking about?
You taking everything, we getnothing.
Yeah, you know that's, uh, thatwould be my starting salvo.
You know, if I was sitting innegotiations, right, you know,
and, uh, you know, I, I don'tthink they'd ever give that, you
(18:50):
know, yeah, but you start highand work down, right, yeah how
do you digest what's going onwith Canada and the United
States right now?
Same old, same old.
We're not in the game and Idon't know if we'll ever get in
(19:11):
that game, much to my chagrin,as I always ask myself what is
our leverage?
What leverage do we have?
We have rights, title, inherentrights, inherent title.
We push for my nation, we pushfor land.
Just for you want to make adeal, it's going to cost you and
(19:35):
money, money comes, money goes.
My nation at the time we wereburning about 70 million a year.
So I said well, you know, Itold my team, I said I want land
, we'll get land because that'llalways be there.
You know we don't have to goscrounging for land to house our
people.
You know it's all reserves.
(19:55):
I don't know how big thereserves are around here, but
ours are pretty small.
Yeah, my reserve, capilano, isthe biggest one and uh squamish
is lower mainland and it's only525 acres.
And we got bigger ones uh up inuh squamish valley, but uh,
just about all of them are inthe one one to 200 year flood
(20:16):
plain and you guys have facedthat here from the Fraser right,
exactly.
So for me I'd always say thatyou know, if there's gonna be a
deal made, you take one acre, wewant 10 or 100, whatever it is.
So don't give up ever on theland, because it belongs to you
(20:38):
anyways and you know, if yougotta negotiate it, you gotta
negotiate.
We bought land that wasfee-simple land.
We looked at the makeup of ourland and most of it was in 45
degrees or more and you can'tbuild anything on that.
So when there was availableacreage and we could put it in
(21:03):
as part of an agreement, theprovince would pay for it.
We'd get the land.
All we're doing is rentingcertainty.
You know, and that's animportant thing to remember Tell
them you know your time.
When this is over, whateverthis is, we want that land back.
(21:24):
So it was always a reversionaryinterest that we put in there.
Important thing interesting.
Aaron Pete (21:32):
The other piece I wanted to ask about we're
hearing more and more from thefederal and provincial
government about trying tocreate economic opportunities
and trying to grow our way outof a lot of the spending that I
think is taking place bothprovincially and federally.
You were involved in bearslayer and I think that provides
a lot of the spending that Ithink is taking place both
provincially and federally.
You were involved in Bears Lairand I think that provides a lot
of inspiration to young people.
Would you mind sharing thehistory of that?
Chief Gibby Jacob (21:55):
Bears Lair.
Well, my friend Gina, ginaJackson from Sechelt.
She's such a great lady, very,very bright, and I didn't have a
heck of a lot to do, to tellyou the truth.
But she asked me to attend anumber of times to talk to the
(22:16):
people who were gettingnominated for the awards.
You know people who are people,right, and you get nervous, you
get scared.
I could tell they were allscared when I first walked in
there.
There was about six of them andI looked at them.
I said what are you scared of?
They said I don't know.
(22:39):
Well, why are you scared if Idon't know?
Right, if you don't know what'sgoing to happen, you know, just
let it roll, roll with it.
That's all I've ever done.
I spoke in front of over 2billion people at the transfer
of the flag in Turin, from Turinto Worcester, vancouver, right,
(23:02):
and I was so ill I got a virus.
I was so ill, I got a virus theday we landed, I just totally
didn't feel good at all and Ijust wanted to come home.
I had to stay because I wasdoing the speaking part in the
transfer, welcoming the world toour territory, right, yeah, and
(23:25):
did it our traditional way, theCoast Salish way.
We had a coin in a cardboardbox it was part of the whole
transfer and so I askedeverybody to take that coin out.
This is symbolic of us invitingyou to our territory and our
(23:49):
country for the games.
I didn't say it all like that,but basically that was the gist
of it.
And the only ones who respondedwere the Maori from Aotearoa,
new Zealand.
They came to our house inSquamish and there's probably
about 75, 80 of them, and wewelcomed them with a song and
(24:14):
their tradition's a lot likeours.
So they responded they did thehongi.
I don't know if you know whatthat is.
I don't know when they rubnoses.
Oh, wow, yeah.
And a lot of our people got upand, you know, didn't know what
was going on, you know, yeah,but yeah, so was I scared.
(24:35):
I couldn't even see the guystanding next to me.
There were five of us chiefs onstage, but there were so many
lights like this this is nothingcompared to that, you know,
just beaming down on you.
Lights like this, this isnothing compared to that Just
beaming down on you.
So, you know, I didn't evenfeel a thing, you know, I just
wanted to get it over and go laydown.
(24:56):
I was just so sick.
Aaron Pete (25:00):
What does it mean to you to be able to see, from my
perspective, to be able to seeIndigenous people start to
flourish?
We're starting to see theculture start to be revitalized,
the language start to berevitalized and people being
able to be immersed in it andgrow in a way that I imagine 50
years ago would have beenunimaginable.
To where we are today powwowsbeing attended at records
(25:23):
numbers.
What does that mean to you?
Chief Gibby Jacob (25:25):
What it means to me is people are in need
spiritually.
You know, if you look atmedicine wheel, you know
physically, spiritually,emotionally, and you know people
are just looking for you knowwhere do I find, where do I find
(25:46):
these things?
And it doesn't matter whatcolor you are, you for you know.
Where do I find these things,it doesn't matter what color you
are, people are in need.
There's more spiritualityneeded today than ever.
If you look at what thebankrupt USA, they got nothing
left Fighting each other.
I'm afraid they're going tohave a civil war down there one
day.
But anyways, that bothers me.
Aaron Pete (26:11):
Absolutely One of my last couple questions Are you
aware of the book Grave Error?
Chief Gibby Jacob (26:18):
No.
Aaron Pete (26:19):
Okay, it's a book written by True North Media in
regards to questioning some ofthe new claims about unmarked
graves and it's a very difficultconversation.
I've interviewed the peoplewho's helped put that book
together to get an understandingof where they were coming from,
and their basic presuppositionis that some of the claims are
(26:39):
being a bit exaggerated and thatthey haven't actually found the
bones in Tecumseh Loops, andthat that's their contention is
that they did radar of theground but they didn't go and
dig up those bodies.
They don't have the bones to beable to demonstrate that.
And the counterpoint from myunderstanding with Takam Loops
is we're talking to ourcommunity, we're trying to work
(27:01):
that out internally.
Do we upset their bodies?
Do we do that digging?
And that's a complicatedquestion for those communities
to decide and I'm just wonderingif you have any advice or
wisdom on how we approach thatdifficult conversation.
Chief Gibby Jacob (27:18):
First big problem I've seen in this whole
thing is all of those kidsweren't from those villages.
I had family who went to thatschool in the 50s.
You know you can't get toeverybody.
You know who may have had afamily member go to that school
(27:40):
and as we roll away from thattime more and more people pass
and whatever knowledge they hadgoes with them.
So it was a couple of thosehuge issues for me.
You know who has a right to saythe chiefs and the membership
(28:00):
from Tekemploops.
I don't know, that's kind of arhetorical question, but for me
we always fought in Squamishagainst anybody doing anything
anywhere near a graveyard.
If we knew what was going on,or burials, we wouldn't stop
(28:22):
them.
And sometimes they justcontinue to keep going.
And I got so angry that one ofthe provincial guys we were
meeting with I said you knowwhat I'm going to do.
I said you guys won't stop.
I'm going to go in that bigcemetery on 41st and Fraser.
I'm just going to dig somebodyup.
I don't care who it is, I don'tknow them, I don't know the
(28:47):
family.
So that's what I'm going to dobecause you guys are doing it to
us.
You can't do that Exactly,Neither can you guys, so stop it
.
Stop it, they did, they just.
Aaron Pete (29:05):
You framed it in an important way.
You got to hit them where ithurts.
My last question for you iswe're seeing a lot of growth and
a lot of young people wantingto take on leadership positions.
What advice do you have foryoung people starting to take
those leadership positions on?
Chief Gibby Jacob (29:24):
I would say talk to the vets you know the
people who've done it in thepast and find out the pros and
cons of being in the leadershipposition, because most young
people don't understand thatyou're taking on a legal
responsibility.
You personally are actuallyliable for the decisions you
(29:44):
make on behalf of your people,and you know I mean not just the
legal side of it.
If you don't know where youcome from, how can you know
where you want to go?
So you've got to understand thepast in order to move towards
the future, and so that's theimportant thing for me.
(30:06):
We've got an election coming upin September 25th, for we had a
council that authorized ourcustom election system to be
revamped.
So the guy who got the mandate,he just went further and
(30:28):
further and further afield andpassed what the mandate was, and
it created a referendum onelection law.
And with your legal training,you know changing a policy
directive as opposed to tryingto change a law is a totally
(30:49):
different kettle of fish, andthey made it so difficult.
It was a 147-page document andI'm a pretty intelligent guy,
but when I was going through itI holy crap.
I said I can't understand mostof this stuff.
She'd go 10 pages in.
(31:11):
Then it refers you back tosection 1A, bracket C, bracket
small 2.
And you look at it, I forgotwhat I was over here.
You know our people narrowmajority approved it.
As time rolled along, a lot ofthings became apparent.
(31:35):
You know the guy who ran forchair and this is a chair
elected by the people.
Nobody knew that, nobody ranagainst him, so he got in by
acclamation and just made a messof things.
So our people just kept gettingangry and they would come talk
to me because they knew I was oncouncil for all those years and
(31:55):
I'm a hereditary chief.
My responsibilities, eventhough I'm not on council, you
know to be responsive to thepeople and their needs, right,
yeah, so I wasn't reallyinvolved in the beginning to
change this stuff.
But the Matrix, you know theycome and talk to me about it.
(32:15):
They say you've got to leadthis thing.
You know You're the only guy.
And I said no, no, no, no,that's a wrong move.
I said what people will thinkis oh, that Gibby's just after
power again.
And you know I did my 32 years,40, including an employee.
(32:38):
Right?
I said Matrix, you've got toroll with us.
I'm going to stand beside youevery step of the way and
everything that I know istactics and you know those
things.
I said I'm there because I wantto change this thing too, but
I'm the wrong person to look atrunning with this thing and be
(32:58):
the face of it right.
But the reason I'm telling youabout the selection and be the
face of it right, right.
But the reason I'm telling youabout this election, I thought
about it, thought about it, andthere's so many young people
that our elders don't know.
I don't know them all.
There's family members who cameback from Bill C-31, and their
(33:20):
kids are now coming back.
Right came back from Bill C-31,and their kids are now coming
back.
Right?
So if you don't know anybody,you know you're not going to get
any votes.
And there's some running.
I don't know why they'rerunning, because I don't know
them, you know.
But I went and I secured ChiefJoe Mathias Center.
I don't know if you've everbeen there or not.
No, I haven't.
It's on my village, homolstusen, and I secured a morning there
(33:46):
and what's going to happen isI'm going to invite all the
candidates in to come withwhatever you know, come to meet
with whatever elders show up, sothat you know it's going to be
very informal.
Hi, my name is, you know myfamily, my family, is this right
, and I always think that.
One of my other things I alwaysuse in the speech is you can
(34:10):
see this hand in one of threeways.
This is where we all want toget to right Exactly, all want
to get to right exactly so youknow that's.
I really want our elders tohave a a sound reason for voting
(34:33):
for anybody, not just becauseyou're my nephew or you know
that doesn't make any senseanymore.
Because we're a billion, we'regoing to be a billion dollar
business.
Wow, we can't have people inthere who have no qualifications
on anything.
Aaron Pete (34:43):
We just went through the exact same thing, where we
actually hosted anall-candidates meeting.
People posted online why theywere running, what they were
going to do differently or whatthey were going to bring to the
table, had people run on realplatforms of what action they
were going to take, and it wasjust so heartwarming to me,
because that's how we grow.
You need to be able to say whatyou're going to do.
Then you get your three-year orfour-year term and you come
(35:06):
back.
Did you deliver on what yousaid you were going to do,
instead of going it's thisfamily or it's that family, or I
only vote for my cousins or Ionly vote for those people.
Measurables yeah, that makes itvery hard to grow, because then
people aren't being heldaccountable for the actions
they're taking and did you showup to the meetings?
Chief Gibby Jacob (35:22):
Of course We've got a number of counselors
that don't even show up tomeetings, Exactly, and it's so
horrible.
We've gone from face-to-facewhen I was there.
Now they're allowed to be on TVscreens Online.
Yeah, oh my.
Aaron Pete (35:36):
God, yeah, you've got to be here in the room.
Chief Gibby Jacob (35:38):
You've got to be those after-meeting the room
.
You gotta be, you know, thoseafter meeting conversations.
Yeah, exactly.
And then, uh, if the chairdidn't like, didn't like, you
you'd.
You know, you only got a coupleminutes to speak and then you
got no chance to reply afterthat.
Exactly you know what.
What a waste, you know.
But uh, anyways, the otherthing I did was, uh, and I
(36:00):
haven't booked a room yet, butafter that meeting with the
elders, I'm going to bookanother morning or maybe a whole
day at Chief Joe's.
Get some of our senior retiredcounselors and leaders,
matriarchs, come to a sessionwith all of the candidates and
give them the Squamish 101.
(36:22):
Beautiful, and this is where wewere.
This was amalgamation, this wasbefore amalgamation.
You know, this is how we got towhere we are.
We've done a chronology.
When I was running the show inmy office, we did a chronology
from amalgamation to then.
It gets about 10, 11 years ago.
(36:44):
We ended up, but you know,could add another page on now.
We're just money isn'teverything, you know, I mean.
I mean we've got a lot now, youknow, and half the time people
don't know because they don'tunderstand how to read a
statement.
(37:04):
Right, you know where themoney's going, yeah, and then
they kind of put it into graphforms so much is going here, so
much is going there.
It doesn't tell you anything,yeah, except that the money's
gone.
Yeah, and no accountabilitythat way.
Yeah, that's one of my words toyou is, you know, as a chief,
(37:28):
you know people are going to belooking to you for the big
leadership, you know, and ifyou're true to what you say you
want to do, they'll have you inthere forever.
If you want to stay there,right, yeah.
But if they figure out, oh,this guy just lying blowing
smoke, you know you won't bethere very long, agreed, and so
(37:49):
that's an important thing.
You know, I was always at everymeeting, you know, even though
people were going to give mecrap, yeah, that's fine.
You know, I get that, we allget that every meeting, you know
.
And one of our ladies got incouncil and we were getting
non-confidence and this is ameeting-to-meeting thing, right,
(38:12):
we just get non-confidence.
So I just like water off aduck's back for me, right.
And I seen her hand go up and Ilooked over.
She's a couple years older thanme.
I wondered what she's going tosay.
Why can't we just be friends.
(38:33):
I just watched her laugh.
Oh, she blinked.
So I told her after I saidwe're going to get this every
meeting.
I said don't let it get to you,don't let it consume you.
They're not your enemies,they're your family.
They're just blowing steam.
I said end of the meeting,everybody will be fine again.
(38:54):
So I've gone through that, Idon't know how many times, but
it just is what it is.
That's the way of our world inSquamish.
Aaron Pete (39:04):
Beautiful.
Well, thank you so much forbeing willing to share your
insights.
I look to individuals likeyourself for inspiration and for
wisdom, and I'm just sograteful to have been able to
share this time with you.
Would you mind telling peoplehow they can follow your work?
Chief Gibby Jacob (39:20):
I'm doing a limited series documentary
Amazing, it's called Back to theFire.
We have a website,backtothefirenet.
It's really about traditionalteachings, leadership and the
teachings that you know peoplegot.
I understand Stephen Point washere before and you know got I
understand Stephen Point washere before and you know he's
(39:43):
just such a great man, and hiswife as well.
And where do you start from?
You know, none of us were everrich.
You know my parents both myparents worked.
My father had a massive strokewhen he was 47, I think Just
(40:04):
about killed him, but he cameback.
My mother worked in a fishcannery and that's the
background we came from.
Everybody worked.
My brothers and sisters, all ofthem worked, and so Beautiful,
and so how can people find that?
Well, you can go online.
(40:24):
It's not out in public yet.
We went to CBC and to APTN tosee if they'd give us a
broadcast license.
Both of them declined.
Wow, yeah, I mean, the guy whowe interviewed was Chief Bobby
Joseph.
Wow, dr Chief Peter Joseph.
(40:45):
Wow, dr Chief Peter Joseph,right, yeah, anyways, they
refused and they said oh, it's agreat project, but not what
we're looking for.
Oh, no, so we've got theSquamish one, we've probably
about 80% done that one.
And Tunaka Kinbasket, theCranbrook tribe, yeah, a couple
(41:07):
of lady friends of mine One wasa chief up there, sophie Pierre
for a long time.
Catherine Denise, still a leadnegotiator for the tribe, yeah,
and so I phoned them up, youknow, and told them what the
project was all about and hesaid we're in, perfect.
(41:27):
And Stephen, I just talked tohim on the way here, yeah, yeah,
siam Yep, and told him becausehe's one of the other ones I
tapped and on the shoulder afriend a long time, him and his
wife, and I said we're stillworking on this yet and I said
(41:48):
we're trying to get funding tofinish these two.
But if I can get more, you know, you're next in my mind who I
want to video for your lifestory and things that you want
to share, things that I have inhere.
I told my staff I told them I'mretiring At 65, I've been
(42:09):
around a long time.
I said my health isn't 100%, soyou know what I have left.
I got a small family and I wantto spend my time with my family
.
I said but here it is.
I said you know where I live,you know my phone number.
You need me for anything.
You come and just ask me.
(42:30):
I said, because what I know Idon't own.
I said I only know these thingsbecause the people allowed me
to learn them, and so some ofthem phone me, you know, and ask
me some historical questionsand thoughts about direction,
and I got a pretty strategicmind Agreed, yeah.
Aaron Pete (42:52):
Well, thank you so much for being willing to join
today.
It's been an absolute honor.
Chief Gibby Jacob (42:56):
Yeah, pleasure, pleasure to meet you
and good luck being a chief.
See you, see you, see you.
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