205. Vin Jay: How to Break Cycles, Find Purpose & Build Discipline

Episode Transcript
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Vin Jay (00:04):
The biggest myth is that there is stagnation.
There is no stagnation.
There's growth and decay.
Constant is change.

Aaron Pete (00:11):
How do you develop that mindset?

Vin Jay (00:13):
Our attention is like fucking water and miracle, bro.
If you could put that on onething and just cut out the fluff
of how you spend your time,that thing is going to do better
.
How important is discipline.

Aaron Pete (00:26):
It's the only thing that matters.
If you've seen that in otherpeople and like how that feels
to watch people kind of getstuck there.

Vin Jay (00:32):
Whatever safety you think you have, is you just
withering away?

Aaron Pete (00:37):
What was the thesis or the topic that you had as you
were putting this projecttogether?

Vin Jay (00:40):
It's much easier to get taken down than to lift someone
up.

Aaron Pete (00:43):
Do you have any recommendations for people in
that circumstance?
You?

Vin Jay (00:46):
cannot get these things that require blood, sweat and
tears without sacrifice.

Aaron Pete (01:00):
Vin J, I am so grateful to be having you back
on, so excited to talk aboutyour new album.
One of the reasons that I lovebeing able to speak with you is
because you talk about this ideaof being a young prophet, and a
prophet is somebody who comesin with a message, often coming
from a higher power, sharingtruth, something on morality or

(01:21):
the future, and I feel like yourmusic hits on that so well.
Something on morality or thefuture, and I feel like your
music hits on that so well, andI'm just so excited to be able
to talk about this album and andwhat you've been going through
cutting out toxic people,reaching your full potential and
and trying to live a meaningfullife.
So just thank you so much forbeing willing to come back on,
because these are such importanttopics to discuss.

Vin Jay (01:41):
Yeah, Thank you for having me.
You know we have a blast everytime we do this.
I like diving deeper into theart and every aspect of it, so
I'm excited.

Aaron Pete (01:49):
Can you catch us up?
What's been going on since welast spoke?
Any big reflections, any bignews to share?

Vin Jay (01:57):
I just had my first child.
He is six months old.
So that is, as you can see, thedad gang hat I'm repping it
proudly um, also probably anextra bag or two under my eyes,
but yeah, that has become thebiggest change life-wise so far.
And uh, just learning how to uhbalance work with it as well,

(02:19):
because, as you know, to uh tomake it in music, I think
personally you need to be a bitobsessed and it needs to kind of
be all or nothing.
So learning how to balance this, what has been an obsession for
me for so long, with somethingthat I deem much more important
than my job, has beeninteresting, to say the least.

Aaron Pete (02:41):
Can I ask what was the timeline of the starting the
album process and having thechild?
Was it at the same time?
Were they far apart?

Vin Jay (02:52):
uh, they overlapped because I didn't know I was
making an album until it washalfway done.
You know, I was like makingjust songs.
Then, all of a sudden, I'm likeman, I haven't released an
album since.
Oh my god.
My last album album was humanexperience, which was 2021.
So I was like hold on, I thinkI have like seven unreleased

(03:16):
songs right now.
I was like I'm like a few awayfrom having an entire album.
So if I'm just a bit moreintentional with the direction
of the rest of these, squeezingin as much studio time as
humanly possible, before both ofour children got here, our kids

(03:50):
are like a week apart.
Wow, we were just linked, likejust locked in for months
because we're like we got xamount of time to like really
hustle so when you started onthe album process did, did you
have the human experience?

Aaron Pete (04:05):
What I love about it is it really does kind of go
through like a growth period,like what it's like to start
figuring out where you want togo.
Then you tell your family howthey react and you tell your
friends how they react and thepushback that you might receive
and just kind of the journey ofgrowing up and finding yourself.
What was kind of the thesis orthe topic that you had in your

(04:27):
mind as you were putting thisproject together.

Vin Jay (04:30):
Yeah.
So this one is very differentthan human experience, and my
favorite thing about projectspersonally is that when I go
back and listen to them yearslater, I can hear exactly where
I was at that point in time,because I don't even like I
listen to human experience.
I'm like damn, I remember who Iwas mentality-wise during this

(04:50):
album and I'm not the sameperson anymore.
Maybe in some regards I am, butthere's so much evolution Going
into this album though, like Isaid, I wasn't even intending to
make an album, so the way themessage panned out was different
, because it wasn't set in stonefrom the beginning.

(05:15):
I realized that a lot of thesongs I had that were done had
features on them, right, and Iwas like damn, I should make an
album, but I don't want an albumfull of features, because the
fans they want to hear me rightIf they wanted features they'd
go elsewhere and uh, all that.
But I was like, hold on though.
I'm like what if I lean intohaving a lot of features?

(05:38):
And that's the entire conceptand we can call it good company,
because, you know, I'm luckyenough to be surrounded by this
network of extremely talentedpeople and I think when you
collaborate with people,beautiful things happen.
So I was like, let's startthere and and see how that
affects the sound when weintroduce others into it and

(05:58):
their ideals as well.
So that's, that is the definingmoment for the album, and once
we shifted towards thatdirection, it the whole project
became extremely collaborative.

Aaron Pete (06:11):
I love that because one of my questions was going to
be about how you came up withthe name, and it's interesting
that you say good company interms of the company that you
keep, because I was alsothinking I know you like
understanding business andfinance and so you also are
running a very good thinking.

Vin Jay (06:27):
I know you like understanding business and
finance and so you also arerunning a very good company, I
imagine.
So that's the second doublemeaning of the album name as
well, which is why the logo onthe album is a barcode and has
like rainbow paint dripping fromit.
The concept of the artwork, aswell as the name, is that music

(06:48):
is inherently a business rightBecause there's money to be made
from it.
Hence the barcode.
Now, all that like paint thathas the entire color spectrum
dripping from the barcode is thesoul that inevitably is going
to poke through that business,just because of what music is
and how powerful it is.
So a little double meaning ofthe term.
Good company there, for sure.

Aaron Pete (07:07):
I love that.
And then you can see kind ofthe high rises and that also
just makes me think of New Yorkand business and that that's
where you go Wall Street, all ofthat work where people are
trying to grow their businesses.

Vin Jay (07:21):
Exactly, I'm very, very happy with how the artwork came
out.
I think it made a lot of sensefor what we're trying to grow
their businesses.
Exactly, I'm very, very happywith how the artwork came out.

Aaron Pete (07:27):
I think it made a lot of sense for what we were
trying to do.
I couldn't agree more.
I also liked I think Imentioned this to you via a
message that I liked the colortie-in and it just looked like
human experience and highfrequency being tied together
and Young Prophet being tiedtogether.

Vin Jay (07:40):
I could see that.
I could definitely see that.

Aaron Pete (07:43):
Okay, so are you ready to dive into these songs
and go through them?
I want to get your take on abunch of them.

Vin Jay (07:48):
Very ready.

Aaron Pete (07:49):
Okay, so let's start with Trouble you talk about
staying true to yourself andusing negativity from others as
fuel.
Fictional, I'd say you've hityour pinnacle if your life
wasn't miserable and I ain'thating, I'm just stating the
truth If I was hating, I wouldhate to be you.
And I'm just wondering how doyou develop that mindset?

(08:15):
And if somebody wants to startdoing that because we get so
lost in going well, like thisperson's like crapping on my
idea or they don't believe in me, and like it's a transition in
your mind to take that and go oh, I'm going to go run with that,
how did you develop that andhow do others follow in that
same path?

Vin Jay (08:29):
So personally, for me it was like a knee jerk reaction
to react that way.
I guess I think the most idealthing you can do is not let
anyone's opinion matter to you,period.
Whether positive or negative,it just doesn't affect you.
It shouldn't.
The noise they make should havezero effect on you.
However, if you're like me andmost people, you can.

(08:52):
It should piss you off whenpeople doubt you right, because
you know what you're capable of.
If you have a shred ofself-confidence and think you're
capable of more than youcurrently have, it should get,
give you a bit of an emotionalreaction on the inside that
causes you to want to prove themwrong.
It's the whole concept of likereverse psychology, right.
If you want someone to dosomething like, oh I bet you

(09:13):
can't do that, right.
So for me, it's always been areal driver.
For me, when I'm doubted orpeople look at me as less than
it's like, I feel this undyingneed to prove that now.
Is that healthy?
Probably not, but does it makefor good music and and success
stories for sure?

Aaron Pete (09:34):
The other piece that really stood out to me was this
idea of like it's dangerous tostay where you are and not chase
your dreams.
And I think that that sometimesgets lost on people because they
go well, like it's a big riskif I take the leap and I go for
what I really want to do.
Say you're like an artist andyou're like, oh, that's a big
step and like I'm putting it allon the line.

(09:54):
But if you're working a nine tofive that you hate, your life
is quality is going to godownhill.
You're going to become moremiserable.
You you're going to become moremiserable.
You're going to take that outon the people who surround you
and the quality of your life isgoing to become something you
don't want to endure anymore.
You're going to lose goodconnections with people.
Like that's staying where youare can seem like the safe path

(10:17):
at times, but I really like thatyou point out that like that's
just as much a risk to staywhere you are than to kind of
move on and I'm wondering ifyou've seen that in other people
and like how that feels towatch people kind of get stuck
there.

Vin Jay (10:30):
Yeah, I've seen it in myself at certain points.
The biggest myth is that thereis stagnation.
There is no stagnation.
There's growth and decay.
What looks like stagnation?
Is you decaying?
Go, look in nature.
There is nothing that isstagnant.
You are growing or you're dying.
The only change I'm sorry, theonly constant is change.
So, whatever safety you thinkyou have, is you just withering

(10:53):
away?
I think it is.
I think we all need some senseof purpose and wherever you find
that is on you.
But that's when I've noticed,when I'm doing great in life
versus when I may be doingpoorly or not feeling as great
or not making the rightdecisions, it is when I lack
purpose chasing a goal thatfeels purposeful to me.

(11:16):
That, I think, is everything.
And the second you start tolack that purpose or ignore what
you know would be purposefulfor you, is when you start to
slip into decisions and habitsthat are just going to continue
to feed that withering processthat you're in, because you need

(11:36):
something to fill that hole.
I think as humans, we desireand seek that purpose in
something and when we're notgoing for it even though we
should be, everyone knows deepdown we need to numb that with
something Right, and this is notme hating on video games.
I play them all the damn time.
But video games are a goodexample, because it's like, okay

(11:57):
, I'm not making strides in myactual life that feel purposeful
, but in this game I can levelup to level 90 and my character
can become stronger, and soyou're just replacing it.
On the other hand, if you'renot even replacing it with video
games, you're just numbing thefact that you're not doing it at
all through alcohol or food ordrugs or fill in the blank

(12:17):
scrolling, doom scrolling.
So I think that purpose is sofreaking important and you can
see the effects when you startto stagnate.
Quote unquote.

Aaron Pete (12:30):
In that same vein, it feels like to me you're an
expert in taking one of thebiggest risks I feel like there
is.
We know how challenging themusic industry is.
We know how many people want totake their passion and turn it
into a career or a business andgrow their influence and their
impact on people.
But when you first say I wantto become a rapper and I want to

(12:51):
do that as my full-time job,that's a massive bet on yourself
.
And so what recommendationswould you have for people who
are like I know where I am isn'tgood.
Maybe I'm working at a grocerystore.
Maybe I'm working that regularnine to five.
That's not meaningful.
How do they make some of thosesmall steps?
Because obviously you can'tjust quit your job and hope for

(13:12):
the best.
You gotta do the work and buildto it.
Do you have any recommendationsfor people in that circumstance
?

Vin Jay (13:19):
Yeah, be very honest with yourself about how you're
spending your time.
Currently.
You have two things.
When we get down to it, youhave time and your energy.
And your energy can be directedwidely amongst many things or
extremely narrow towards onething, and our attention is like
fucking water and miracle grow.

(13:40):
If you could put that on onething and just cut out the fluff
of how you spend your time,that thing is going to do better
.
So if you're in that situationwhere you work at the grocery
store, I want to know whatyou're doing with the rest of
your fucking time.
The rest of it.
You got to be willing it soundscorny, but you have to be
willing to cut out sleep.

(14:00):
You have to be willing to giveup leisure.
You cannot get these thingsthat require blood, sweat and
tears without sacrifice.
I was this video I watched theother day said it's a you want
what 1% of people have, butyou're not willing to do the
shit they're doing, and that'sthe shit that 99% of people
won't do.
That's why they're the 1%.
You want what they bled for,sweat for and cried for, and you

(14:25):
want it for free, but itdoesn't come free.
So to that person I would sayevery waking moment that you
have that you can direct towardschasing your dreams that won't
take away from other things thatare very important in your life
should be directed at it, pointblank period.
It gets really simple when youget down to it.

(14:47):
You have to want it bad andevery ounce of energy you can
devote towards it needs to bedevoted towards it.
It's very black and white Now Iwill say this.
There's different people indifferent scenarios.
Some people are a 17 year oldwho want to learn how to rap
right or be a rapper Verydifferent story.
Cut out all the bullshit you'redoing and put all your eggs in
that basket.

(15:07):
You're young, you're dumb.
You have nothing to lose forsomeone who's 28 and has a kid
and a decent job that maybethey're concerned about losing
because it supports the familyCompletely different story.
That is where I say devote allthe time that you can that won't
take away from important thingsto grow that seed.

Aaron Pete (15:31):
The other piece that I think is interesting to get
your perspective on, because Ithink and you can correct me if
I'm wrong I think you may havesometimes an addiction to
discipline in like a really goodway, where you try and lock
yourself into a routine andsometimes that can have negative
impacts.
But how important is discipline?

Vin Jay (15:52):
it's everything.
It's the only thing thatmatters, bro, it's have you ever
had a talk with someone andhyped them up through the words
you've said?
You've given them real, likesage advice, and they're like
you spoke life into them.
And now they're excited.
And then the next week they'rebeing a fucking idiot again.
It's like clearly themotivating doesn't work or these

(16:13):
moments of inspiration.
You need to show up foryourself all the time, every day
, because of that requirement ofenergy and attention.
And the reason a lot of peoplefail and we've spoke about this
multiple times, excuse me, thereason so many people fail is
because they don't want it asbad as they think they fucking
want it, or they don't have astrong enough.

(16:34):
Why, right, if, if you uh,what's this video I saw?
It's like uh, I asked everyonein the room what percent chance
do you think you're going tomake a million dollars this year
?
Right, and everyone's like zero, zero, zero.
Some people like one exuberantpeople like five, maybe I can
make a million dollars this year.
And then they said if everyonein your family was going to die,

(16:57):
if you didn't make a milliondollars this year, what are the
chances you're going to make amillion dollars and they're like
oh, 100%.
So what changed?
It's the why, how dire this isto you.
So I think you need to switchhow dire what you want is for
you, because that's going todirectly impact how much you
show up for yourself.

Aaron Pete (17:16):
I couldn't agree more, and it's.
There's something I don't knowif you I imagine you do
experience this in some of themoments where you don't want to
do it the most, but then you doit, Like I think the gym is a
usual example people think of,but when you have emails to do
or when you have things tofollow up on, when you do it,
when you want to do it the least, that's where I feel like

(17:37):
confidence and real self-respectcomes from, because you're like
oh, I'm the person who does it.
When I'm tired, when I don'twant to do it, when I want to go
to sleep, when I want to chill,when you do it.
In those moments there's justsomething different about that
energy.

Vin Jay (17:50):
Yeah, because if you do it when just when you want to
do it, then you're everybodyelse.
You're not separating yourselfat all.
Everybody does shit when theywant to do shit.
The thing that separates youand puts you above the rest and
gets you what the rest don'thave is showing up when you
don't want to show up, becausethat's when everybody quits.
That is the one thing thatseparates you and the thing that

(18:12):
takes you from a slight outlierto the 1% is doing that fucking
20 fold more than everybodyelse.
The more times you can do that,the more you're separating
yourselves.
So you're doing shit peoplearen't doing.

Aaron Pete (18:29):
You're going to get shit that people don't have.
It's that simple.
The last question on this song,and it's just on the vein of
what you're describing, I see alot of hate on people like Jeff
Bezos, elon Musk, like peoplewho are really, really
financially successful, and partof me goes like, obviously they
make mistakes, they're humanbeings.
But the other piece seems likewe really like as a culture, we

(18:55):
don't like when people are thissuccessful, like it offends us
in some sort of way and I'mwondering how do you digest when
people are like oh, screw ElonMusk or screw Jeff Bezos, and
they're crapping on these peoplewho have done like, no matter
what you think of them, they'vedone incredible things with
their life, and there just seemsto sometimes be this pop-up of
jealousy like how could they beso rich, how could they be so
successful, how dare they dothat?

(19:17):
And it's almost like it's areflection of what we chose not
to do and I don't think you needto go to their extent.
Like every person needs to dothat, but like, how do you
process when you hear thosetypes of comments?

Vin Jay (19:27):
I stay far away from people who talk like that, but
if I was to talk to someone likethat, I agree with you very
much on the reflection aspect ofit.
I think when you see someonedoing better than you, it's
holding up a mirror to you as towhat you are capable of
achieving.
And if that thought scares youor you're you've been trying to
numb it, run away from it thenthese visceral reactions come

(19:50):
out and it always comes out asanger and hate and victimization
.
Um, also people who complainabout other people having a
bunch of money because theycreated a lot of value for
humanity, like you, don'tunderstand how money fucking
works.
Anyway.
And again, not talking to you,not because I need to avoid
certain people, I just don'twant to.

(20:11):
I'm just not gonna have a goodtime talking to you that's fair.

Aaron Pete (20:14):
Uh, the next song is prayed up.

Vin Jay (20:32):
Grateful baby, just being grateful, no matter what.
We go through the firesometimes, sometimes we may talk
a little too crazy, but throughit all, through it all, I stay
prayed up.
I stay grateful, I stay blessed.
Through it all, I stay prayedup.
I stay grateful, I stay.
I'm blessed.
All of that, I'm prayed up.
The good energy, good vibesconnected with God, prayed up.

Aaron Pete (20:52):
Can I just ask like I've?
I think a lot of people aregoing through kind of a
Renaissance of faith, ofbelieving in things bigger than
themselves and one of the piecesthat, like I grew up as a
Catholic so we had, like thesetypical things you say for grace
or before you eat, and thenI've seen other people do it

(21:13):
where they're just being, as yousaid, grateful before they eat,
grateful for their life,grateful for the fact that they
have access to food.
We see around the world that,like, people are still starving
and so just trying to workthrough the fact that I think
being grateful is something wecan kind of move on from and as
we work through, I think, a lotof things in the West, being

(21:34):
grateful that we have thequality of life we have in
comparison to people a hundredyears ago, sometimes gets lost
and I'm just wondering how doyou keep that when you've
continued to grow so much thatit's easy to almost take it for
granted?

Vin Jay (21:49):
That's something I've struggled with.
Man, being highly ambitious andgrateful is a tough fucking
seesaw to operate.
It's just taking inventory, man.
When I look around at what mylife is today and everyone wants
to be Russ and Drake or atleast have the level of success

(22:11):
that they've had rightFinancially and musically.
But when I look at my liferight now and everything that
God has given me music aside,dude, a faithful, beautiful wife
inside and now a healthy sonthat wakes up and smiles at me
every single morning, I'm in ahome that you know.
And is it a mansion?
No, but, like I know people myage who wish they had a home and

(22:33):
it's.
We have a roof over our head,clean water, food.
And when I take inventory, it'snot hard to be grateful and
thank God because all of thesethings that are going right we
take for granted because theycan easily be going wrong.
There's a million ways that allthese things can go wrong and
they're just not.
So it's not difficult for me tobe grateful.

(22:55):
Sometimes, you know, emotionsrun high and, oh my God, this
thing is happening and it'sannoying, but you got to like,
you got to get away from thatand really take stock of what's
going right in your life?

Aaron Pete (23:07):
Okay, I have a really important question for
you, and I don't know how itworks, so I need you to explain
it to me.
How do the lyrics work on Applemusic?
Why does it not go along withwhat you're saying on every song
?
How does it work?
It drives me nuts when I haveto scroll through and follow
along with the lyrics.

Vin Jay (23:31):
What is going on?
That is on me.
That is me being a lazy bum,and when I upload my songs to
distributors, I don't put thelyrics in there.
So Apple Music's like I'm justgoing to figure it out, I'm
going to guess the lyrics andapparently they don't even
scroll.
So that's on me.

Aaron Pete (23:41):
I got to take care of that of that okay, because I
was wondering if they make youlike pay an additional fee or
something, because when it flowswith it it's so engaging and
we'll just put it up while we'redriving and we'll just have the
lyrics going, and then we'relike what the heck?
Like how does this work?
And then it's for some, butit's not all of them and we're
like oh, this is like a likejourney, like we want to hear
the lyrics, we want to follow,and so I was just curious how

(24:03):
that all braved.

Vin Jay (24:04):
Yeah, I'm, I'm definitely.
Uh, I am like an artist artistwhere I am so in it for just I
want to create the best musicand then give it to the world
that sometimes I let thelogistics fall to the wayside
never the business aspect of it,but the logistics of it.
Sometimes I'm like this is notnecessary.

Aaron Pete (24:32):
So that's where we're at with that, fair enough.
As a fan, I hope you do it,because it's a pleasure to see
the like, the skill and likejust.
I don't know if you watch showswith captions, but it just
helps you understand what'sgoing on.
So much, so much better, causewhen you go really fast it's
like oh no, I I've lost it, likeit went too fast, I need need
to slow it down.
The next song is war and I'llbe honest with you, I was super

(25:06):
excited to see the song becauseI've seen Echo and Nate Vickers
do the style before of the rockrap is that?
Did you see that going on?
And go like, oh, I want to getinvolved in that, or how did
that song come about?

Vin Jay (25:17):
no, how did that one come?
I was just scrolling onBeatStars on a producer's page
who I rock with a lot.
His His name is Pendo46.
He's done plenty.
He did Shady, he did Goat, hedid this and probably a few more
.
To be honest, I found that beat.
I ended up singing my own hook,which was not the one that's

(25:38):
currently on it, and then Iwrote that verse and the verse
just felt so big andinspirational and like we were
just like getting after it thatI was like this hook is not good
enough.
I need a rock singer on this.
Who's going to drive this home?
I sent it to Nate first try.
He sends that back to me.
I was like dude, this guy'sincredible.

(25:59):
It's it's rare that first trypeople knock it out of the park.
He'd be like I like it, butswitch this and change this part
Instead of going up, go down,change this word to that.
First try.
He sends me that.
And then, of course, like Echo,I heard him all over that.
Shit Me and Echo.
When we send each other songs,it's got a real specific energy
to it.

(26:20):
I know when it needs Echo on it, and the fact that Nate was on
it just made it make even moresense, cause when they collab
it's magic, so that one kind ofjust created itself Once, once
the verse was laid down it wasan.

Aaron Pete (26:33):
It's an incredible song.
It's one of my favorites on thealbum by far because of that
flow and that energy.
But I also like just thinkingback, the reason I love the
album so much is because it'slike there's so many Easter eggs
and I just as I mentioned toyou I think privately I
discovered you through the songVillain that you did with him.
Like that's where I first foundyou, and then like listen to

(26:55):
all your songs and all youralbums and I've been following
ever since.
So it's cool to see that dooropen and then see this song come
about.
But I also feel like you andEcho bring out like a gritty
energy to each other and it'slike a heaviness.
But it's also like it's thisweird balance of like it's heavy
but like I'm gonna go get afterit even though everything's
heavy, and I just I really enjoythat style of of topic yeah, I

(27:20):
feel that that's kind of mybread and butter spot, and it's
not.

Vin Jay (27:23):
I'm not making songs like that every day because I'm
a human being, but when I do getthat energy, it is true that
like Villain kind of has thatsame raw, rugged energy I feel
you.
And we have another song that'sunreleased right now.
I'll show it to you once we'reoff the podcast and it's the

(27:44):
same thing, like very differentsonically but energy wise it's,
it's motivational and I don'tknow.
I think every artist has aspace where they overlap with
another artist.
Sometimes it's huge, sometimesit's a bit smaller.
I think me and echo that'swhere we overlap very well and
that's why it becomes so like uh, cohesive when we come together

(28:05):
on songs like that.

Aaron Pete (28:07):
I love that because when I think of you and Anakin,
like you have this ability topass the beat back and forth
like it's a ball and I findthat's your guys' style together
when you do Sedona or when youdo other songs together, like
that's your guys' skill settogether, so I like that.
Do you know that?
Going into the song?
I guess skill set together, soI like that it'll.
Do you know that?
Going into the song, I guessyou said that you saw like you

(28:28):
could hear echo on that songbefore it even happened.

Vin Jay (28:30):
Yeah, so in terms of finding out where I overlap with
another artist when I heartheir music, I could generally
understand where we wouldoverlap, me and nk, just had
this conversation a few days agofor ourselves, um, and with
canon, let's say, or anakin, I'msorry, specifically um.
Now that we've made a bunch ofsongs, I know exactly where we
overlap it is.

(28:51):
It's swaggy lyricism, it's it'sa bit more braggadocious and
more of like a bop to it thanaggression, and that's where me
and him overlap big time.
We're gonna bar out, but it'sgonna.
And that's where me and himoverlap big time.
We're going to bar out, butit's going to feel smooth.
It's going to feel real smooth.
Nate oh my God, I'm callingeveryone by their real name, I
apologize.

(29:12):
Nk.
Me and him overlap in acompletely different space.
So he's making a dark popcurrently, right, but before he
started doing the dark pop hecan wrap his ass off as well.
He's just got a bit darker of astyle than I do.
So the place we overlap forsure is like lyricism and

(29:34):
chopping up a little bit, butmaybe more in an emotional space
.
So we can chop and and belyrical, but with a bit more
introspective nature to it.

Aaron Pete (29:47):
Yeah, I love that One of the lines that I wanted
to get your thoughts on, becausewe get these kind of phrases
and then we almost likedisconnect from what they mean
and I always feel guilty when Igo back to listen to old songs
that I almost don't hear thelyrics the same way I did the
first time I heard it, Like itsmacks you upside the head when
you hear a good line and thenover time you almost get used to

(30:10):
it so you stop appreciating theline.
But life is a battle of will.
I really like that and I'mwondering if you could share
your thoughts.

Vin Jay (30:19):
Yeah, that's a deep question.
That's a deep question, um, Ithink.
I think a part of this life andthis reality, a very important
part of it, is for us to gothrough things period, because

(30:39):
they shape our soul and andcraft it and bring a bit of,
they build like the character ofour soul, and I think that is
actually like a feature of thislife and not a bug.
I think.
I think the problems areintentional for us to overcome.

(30:59):
So when I say this life is abattle of will, I mean that like
bar for bar.
I think that's the fuckingpoint of this shit to for us to
overcome again and again andagain, to shape and mold our
souls so that, whatever youbelieve in, when, when this life
is over, our soul is a bit moreweathered and wise because of

(31:23):
the problems that we had toovercome.
I think it's like a bit of aschool for your soul to an
extent.

Aaron Pete (31:31):
I love that piece because there's those lines
where it goes like if you askGod for strength, do you think
he gives you an easy life, or doyou think he gives you
something to overcome?
If you want confidence, do youthink he tells you you're doing
a good job or does he give you achallenge to face?
And changing your mindset toseeing barriers as opportunities

(31:52):
is something that becomescliche, but if you can actually
do it, it's really rewarding.

Vin Jay (31:58):
Absolutely.
I picked up boxing probablylike eight months ago and just
so I could get some exercise in,also tighten up on my fighting
skills and all that.
It has become so much more thanthat because it sucks.
Getting punched in the face isnot fun, right.
Nor is pushing past your cardiopoint when you wanted to die

(32:20):
fucking 10 minutes ago.
But putting yourself to thefire like that on a regular
basis and you see yourselfprogressing over a long enough
period of time that it is such agood metaphor for life and
that's why I love it so much.

Aaron Pete (32:36):
It sucks so bad that I love it there's a really
specific moment when you have afriend that I wanted to get your
thoughts on from this song,because you talk about how you
have friends telling you toneglect your dreams, and there's
these.
As you're growing, you start tomove up beyond one of your
friends or one of your peers,and how they respond can be so

(32:58):
tragic if they don't want you tokeep going because it sets you
on a path of going in differentdirections.
Like I think you're a personwho likely goes okay, I need to
back away from those people ifthey're going to bring that type
of energy into my realm.
But that's also like can youhelp them out of that mindset?
Like there's an urge to, likecan I get you back on the right

(33:19):
track?
And so I'm wondering when thosemoments have arisen for you.
How do you find that balance oftrying to help them move in the
direction you're moving whilealso not letting yourself get
sucked down and weighed down bythem?

Vin Jay (33:31):
That was very well worded, that last part you.
But you should only do so withyour overflow of energy and not
take from yourself, especiallyif they are not willing to make

(33:52):
those changes right.
Lead a horse to water can'tmake a drink, but if you have so
much overflow that somethingyou're able to do for them
doesn't take anything from you.
And I don't mean money, I justmean like this is nothing off my
back, it's barely going torequire any energy for me, maybe
a conversation, maybe I extendan olive branch of an
opportunity, and it could helpthem drastically.

(34:15):
I think you need to like pursuethose moments and help the
people around you.
Just don't do it to a pointwhere you are pulling yourself
down.
You can only uplift someonefrom a place that is greater
than the space they are in.
So if you try to stoop downstoop down is the wrong term,
but I think you understand.
If you try to go down to theirlevel because you feel like

(34:38):
that's what's going to help them, it never will.
You can't help someone from thesame space as them.
It's much easier to get takendown than to lift someone up.
So I think you should lifteveryone up, but not at the cost
of you getting pulled downvibrationally, so to speak?
How?

Aaron Pete (34:56):
do you approach letting those people go?
Have you had to do that in yourlife?
And like it's almost likegrieving a person who's still
alive yeah, um, I think I thinkit's just about understanding.

Vin Jay (35:14):
I think when you understand what is important to
you and why you need to do thethings you're doing, it just
just it doesn't hurt as much asas you would think.
Um, I know everything that I donow is for my son and my wife.
I am a provider for my familyand, even beyond that, the

(35:36):
people in my uh, you knownuclear family my mom, dad,
sister, so on and so forth.
I it is my responsibility to acertain extent, to make sure
that everyone is never in areally bad spot, and if someone
is hurting, then I am capable ofuplifting them, because I

(35:59):
should do that.
So if there's someone in mylife who is making that more
difficult for me or less likely,it's not hard for me to be like
.
This person can't be a part ofmy ecosystem because they're
hurting the only thing thatactually matters.

Aaron Pete (36:20):
Fascinating.
The next song is kill shot Inever knew that I would grow to
be a target through the populardemand and overshadowing these
artists.
They're all declining while I'mcornering the market.
You can either play a part orbe a product of the carnage.
I'm too cocky to fail.
I gotta prevail.
That's why I stay locked andthis is where, like I, I like
albums, because I feel likethere's a logic to what's taking

(36:43):
place and the flow from warinto killshot really ties nicely
together.
Was that intentional?

Vin Jay (36:50):
yes.
So once the album is finishedand I feel like I have all the
appropriate energies that arerequired for an album, some
introspective records, somebangers, some, you know, fill in
the everything in between fromsad to introspective, to
motivational, to I just want tomake a fucking hit and scream at
people.
Once I have all that, the flowis very important for me.

(37:13):
I think trouble feels veryintroductory.
It starts with chatter andthese like sirens, and then the
first time you hear my voice itsays we're about to start
trouble, which I think feelslike oh shit, here we go and
then we kind of make our waywhere we kick off with bangers
because you have to Right, andthen we start diving into a

(37:34):
little introspection as thealbum goes on and at the end we
finish with Beast on the 6thbecause I want fireworks at the
end.
So I'm very intentional withthe way that I structure the
albums.

Aaron Pete (37:49):
Fascinating.
The song On your Mind is one ofmy favorites.
It is, I think, rebecca'sfavorite right now, because you
have these really great lines,like again going back to this
idea of seeing everybody joggingin place, down in their
identities, trying to ride thecoattail and follow as you win
it, and then they're gonna claimthat they was down from the
beginning and watching thathappen and seeing people again

(38:19):
maybe doing these nine to fives,maybe doing the best they can
within that role, but likethey're they're not going
anywhere and they don't have toyour point, that purpose that's
driving them to somethinginspirational.
And like it's such a pleasure tobe able to interview you
because it's an honor to lookover and see someone else just
giving it 115%, like just goingfull force at their craft, and I

(38:43):
know that that's more yourworld.
Like you're surrounded bypeople with that mindset, but in
the podcasting world we havethat to a lot less extent.
And so to be able to like chatwith you and hear you being like
I'm just grinding, I'm puttingin the work on these songs I
know that you have such a highbar for what you're willing to
release to just work with andspeak with individuals like
yourself is it adds that fuel tothe fire.

(39:04):
And then when you see peoplejogging in place, it's like it's
almost like they're justmissing the opportunity to like
live their life fully.

Vin Jay (39:12):
Yeah, I agree and, uh, I.
If you want to live a lesspurposeful driven lifestyle,
that's on you, go ahead.
I'm not going to yell, youdon't have time, don't have the
energy, but don't give mefucking advice.
Go ahead.
I'm not gonna yell.
You don't have time, don't havethe energy, but don't give me
fucking advice.
Stupid, I'm not, I don't care.
I don't care what you say.
That's, that's.

(39:32):
My biggest issue is like, doyou and I don't care?
The crazy thing is I'm doing meand you care.
Why do you care what I'm?
Just focus on you and the factthat you lack the self-awareness
to even think you should betelling me what to do is nuts.
My biggest like pet peeve withpeople in general is lack of

(39:54):
self-awareness.
That shit drives me up a wall.
Whether it's situationalself-awareness or just like you
don't even understand who youare as a person, where your
flaws are, your faults, yourpositives.
I have such a hyper, like, likeOCD view of all my shortcomings
and places.

(40:15):
I thrive in that.
When people completely lackself-awareness, it blows my mind
.
I'm like my self-awareness andI'm saying this to like a
detriment at a point, myself-awareness.
I lose sleep over howself-aware I am because, like,
oh, I shouldn't have done that.
Oh my God, why am I doing this?
I could be doing this better.
So yeah, when people, peoplewho are doing jack shit with

(40:40):
their life, and then give you,uh, what's the word?
I'm looking for Advice I wasnot even asked for.
It's just bananas to me, it'sso crazy to me.
I talk to my wife about it allthe time.
I'm like can you imagine justwalking around and waking up
every day and having that littleself-awareness?

(41:01):
Your head is la-la land.
I can't imagine what living inyour brain is like.

Aaron Pete (41:07):
I completely agree with you and I think the big
tragedy and I think about this alot is we often end up giving
more time to people who pullthat type of crap in our life
than the good people who arejust on our side backing us,
like if somebody pisses you offor me off, like I kind of go
like well, why are they likethat?

(41:27):
Why are they doing this?
How did they end up here?
How do I resolve it?
How do I touch base with them?
How do I word it?
How do I make sure I approachit in the right way?
And I get.
I could spend three hoursthinking about that, knowing
that they're not thinking aboutit at all, like it's not,
they've moved on, they're doingtheir own thing.
And then it's like and thensomebody has your back and say
like Rebecca makes breakfast forme or something, and like, and

(41:49):
I just go, oh, thank you verymuch, and move on from that, and
I'm giving somebody else who'scausing problems three hours of
my day thinking about how theyimpacted me and it just seems
almost unjust.

Vin Jay (42:01):
It goes back to what we said before it's easier to be
pulled down than it is to liftothers up, and I think that's
why we fall into those traps soeasily.
But you just got to like, if youhave your people right, you
have your, you have your lady,you have your family, you have
your friends, the ones that areclose, and you don't have to
deal with shit like that with ifyou, once you have those people
and I'm not saying don't makenew friends, but once you have

(42:22):
those people and I'm not sayingdon't make new friends, but once
you have those people, itdoesn't really matter when
negative ass people, regardlessof how close or far they are
from you, try to be like that,cause you're like I don't need
to deal with this, and that's avery important word.
You're like I don't need to dothis, this.
I'm doing this by choice.
I'm just going to click the bigred button on my phone right
now, cause I can.

(42:42):
I don't owe you anything, Idon't even owe you a goodbye.
I'm just gonna hit this buttonand then it's over.

Aaron Pete (42:47):
I love that, uh.
So this song is the start ofyou actually having Binks and
Massetti on the album and youhave two songs with them.
Of course, I was again excitedto see Binks, because high
frequency like that tie intoyour, to your starting out, and
in a previous conversation youtalked about how you learned a
lot during that process and howthat album kind of came together

(43:08):
, and I love that piece.

Vin Jay (43:10):
How did these songs come together, particularly, uh,
on your mind oh, let me thinkon your mind wow, so this one's
a little weird.
So on your mind that I recordedprobably two years ago, if not
more, and to a different beat,and I was like we're finishing
up the album, like the lastquarter of the album, and I'm

(43:33):
scrolling through my sessions onmy computer and I find that I
was like this verse is kind oflike something.
It's got some real cool energyto it, it's saying some
motivational things, but it'sreal swaggy and slightly
condescending in a nice way, andso I was like let's build it
out.
I hit up Massive Man's producerand was like hey, can you make
a beat around this acapella?

(43:54):
And he sent that back first tryand I was like this is actually
perfect.
And then again I record a scathook which is basically just no
words, it's all melody.
You crank the auto tune to 100and you just start singing and
you're like, oh, these notes arereally nice.
And then I sent that to MissEddie and I was like these notes

(44:16):
something like this.
But you write the whole hook,right, he sends me back that
hook first try.
And I was like, dude, you'reincredible.
And then I knew Binks would gowell on it, cause, again, where
me and Binks overlap.
I think me and Binks overlap ina few more places than other
artists, cause we're both, likeOCD, psychotic people.
So our styles, uh, vary verydrastically, like we have a wide

(44:41):
range of what we both like todo.
Um.
Drastically Like we have a widerange of what we both like to
do.
Um.
But I know banks can wrap hisass off and I love how melodic
he can be within his rapping.
I think there's artists like me, for example, who I will rap,
and then I have melodic sections, cause I like to go all in on
my melodic sections.
Binks has this way ofintertwining melody Into just

(45:04):
his regular rap parts that youmay not necessarily even Know
were melodic unless you werePaying attention.
It's like that's the way itturned.
It started falling out.

Aaron Pete (45:19):
No, I'm thinking of a different record, but either
way, there's a part in the songwhen he speeds up in the cadence
of how he's speaking.
It flows and I had to chilldown my back when he did that,
because it was like there's thatbalance between chaos and order
.
And when he chose to speed upit was like whoa, that was not
what the flow that you wereexpecting going into it.

Vin Jay (45:40):
Yeah, so smooth.
But when they enter thetelescope they want the grace
they never gave you first thatparty.
He goes crazy.
But yeah, binks is just smoothman.
He's a smooth lyricist and Ithink I said this on the last
time we spoke.
Everyone's voice is aninstrument, just like a guitar
or a violin or a flute, and youcan tell when a song needs a

(46:01):
guitar or when it needs a flute.
And I heard that and I knewBinks's voice.
His instrument would fit verywell sonically and he's talented
enough to carry it lyrically.

Aaron Pete (46:14):
Can you tell me a little bit more about your
relationship with Massetti?
Have you guys talked a lot?
Do you have a strong connection?
How did you guys get introduced?

Vin Jay (46:23):
We met through massive man.
Me and massive man are prettygood friends and he's worked
with massetti for years.
They've made so many songstogether, um.
So yeah, I think theintroduction just happened, I
don't know, maybe just justorganically.
I don't think we were making asong necessarily.
I think I heard a record ofmassettis and loved it.

(46:46):
I was like I got to work withthis kid.
He was familiar with me as well.
We got in touch and we made seethe light.
That was the first song that weever made together.
But now I've spoken to him manytimes.
We know each other, call eachother on FaceTime and shit.
So yeah, we just know we'realways trying to work together.
We both respect each other'scrafts and how we approach our

(47:07):
music and so when a song callsfor that person, we know you
could just FaceTime someone andthey'll pick up.
That's a toxic habit of mine.
I could not talk to you for twoyears just because, like,
business hasn't called for it.
If we're not necessarilyfriends and I will not call you
or text you, I'll just facetimeyou and I'll be like yo, you

(47:29):
look at the song I just made andI need you on the hook.
And the cool thing about mostartists is they'll just pick up
the facetime and they're like oh, that's fucking sick, I'll get
in the studio that's awesome.

Aaron Pete (47:39):
Uh, you mentioned massive man.
Do you have any reflections onthe journey he's on right now?

Vin Jay (47:44):
It's incredible.
I've seen him struggle with hisweight and eating addiction for
so long since I've known himand when he told me he was going
on this journey, I just didn'tknow how it was going to pan out
, because it's a difficult,difficult journey, especially
with his food addiction.
So I'm like I was stoked forhim, but I knew it was going to
be a difficult, difficultjourney, especially with his

(48:04):
food addiction.
So I'm like I was stoked forhim, but I knew it was going to
be a difficult road.
Now fast forward, however, manymonths later, and he's not only
down like 200 pounds orsomething.
He is working out now and Ilove to see that it's not just a
shake diet anymore.
It's like I'm eating correctlyand I'm hitting the gym

(48:25):
regularly.
And I think documenting theentire process and sharing it
with the world before you'veeven achieved the goal that you
told everyone you're going toachieve is so courageous and I
have nothing but respect forwhat he's doing.
I'm very happy to see himbecome healthy and happier as a
result.

Aaron Pete (48:43):
It just goes back to that point of being able to see
other people doing their thingand like choosing that path to
your point.
It's like how many people makenew year's resolutions, like
everybody, and how many peoplefollow through?
Not very many.
And to go through that and toshare the tough days and the
good days is like there'ssomething really like profound
about that, because it's so easyto see where people end up.

(49:06):
The Jeff Bezos is the Elon Muskand go oh well, they had this
moment where life got easier forthem or they had that moment.
You don't see the moment where,like, elon Musk is sitting on
the ground in his um, in hisfactory, trying to make
everything work and it's justnot working.
You only see the success todayand for him, him to share that.
I felt like was so brave andreally really vulnerable to

(49:28):
share that part of your lifebecause it's something you're
not proud of.
So there's an instinct to wantto put it under the carpet and
not talk about it.

Vin Jay (49:36):
I think that's why it's resonating so well, though,
especially like on social media,which is a highlight reel, and
you're choosing to show exactlythe opposite of that, which I
think is what's connecting witheverybody.
I think people are starting toget a little tired of the um,
perfected, only shiny content,and it's like hey, look at me,
look at me, buy my stuff, buy mystuff.

(49:58):
So yeah, I've, it's really um,uh, I respect what he's doing
big time, and I think I thinksocial media is um.
I had a little like brain blastabout social media.
Granted, I'm not doing it as Ishould, because, same reason, I
don't put the lyrics on my songs, but but I had this fucking

(50:19):
brain blast.
I was watching tv with my wifethe other day and we're watching
, like a guy, fieri, what is it?
Diners, drive-ins and dives,right.
And it hit me.
I'm like, oh my God, everyone'sdoing social media wrong,
including me.
And she's like what do you mean?
I said it's just a TV network.
Your, your page is a TV networkand you just don't need to go

(50:43):
to any big company to do itanymore, but you can quite
literally just create that'syour channel.
If your channel 33 or 52, likeyour page is just your channel
and and your network and if youcan create a good enough thing
for people to watch, it's justTV without any barriers.
It's how you get on TV withoutknowing anyone that could get

(51:04):
you on TV.
So it's like if we can allshift our mindset of like, what
is my show about and what doesthe layout of that show look
like, oh my God, it would crush.
And Massaman's show right nowis I'm losing weight.
Look at my weight loss journey.

Aaron Pete (51:17):
That's such a good point because once you kind of
zoom out to like what is themain purpose of what I'm posting
about, Then people understandwhy they're clicking and
watching and tuning in.
But sometimes you don't knowbecause your instinct is like
I've got to post something, Gota new song, got to post it and
you're trying to find a way tofit your content into your

(51:38):
channel rather than letting yourchannel be and letting
everything kind of happenorganically.

Vin Jay (51:43):
Yeah, and we're mimicking what other people are
doing.
That has worked.
So like what are you trying to?
You're doing the worst versionof their show instead of just
making your own show.
I think once you could figureout the a unique way to present
your craft or whatever it isyou're doing in like a show
format, you're going to crusheven Michael Minnelli right now
with his step to the mic thing.

(52:04):
That's a TV show, dude, that'sa.
That's a TV show.
People walk up to this tableand they, they present their
talent.
That's a literal TV show.
So I think if you can getcreative enough and create your
own little show to present yourcraft, it's that's the
moneymaker right there.

Aaron Pete (52:20):
Amazing.
The song I Wish with NK.
Of course you know I'm excitedto see it because you guys have
been on like different journeysof different songs, with
different styles.

Vin Jay (52:40):
And I really appreciate the approach you guys have.
How did that collab come about?
That was just me and himhanging out.
We were literally just hangingout in here scrolling through
beats, found that one and we hadno intention of like, oh, we
need to make a song for the sakeof business or for the sake of
an album.
We were, like you, trying tomake some music I'm bored, let's

(53:02):
make some music.
And that came out of it all inthe same day.
We recorded that whole shitthat day and I think that's why
the song feels so just organicand like it has a bop to it.
It has a real organic bop.
There's nothing forced on itbecause we were just having fun
that day and made a song.

Aaron Pete (53:22):
One of my favorite parts about it is you talked
about the importance of findingyour purpose, and you may have
already mentioned this earlier,but I'm curious what is your
purpose?

Vin Jay (53:37):
my purpose is?
I should think before I answerthis so quickly.
I think at this point in mylife, my purpose is to provide

(54:02):
for the people around me, be abeacon of light for them and an
inspiration and and justhopefully uplift to whatever
extent the people that I comeacross.
I think it is providing andbeing the support system for the

(54:25):
ones closest to me, first andforemost, and if I can inspire
through any other actions I take, that is a beautiful second
thing that I can do.

Aaron Pete (54:37):
I love that and I love how methodical you were
about answering that questionand making sure you got it right
.
But, like instinctively, I kindof knew, because you raise it
in so many of your songs and youtry and inspire others to think
of it that same way.
And again, I think it hasreligious undertones, because
there's something that I don'tknow what happened to us that

(55:00):
wanted us to do something otherthan focus on our family.
Like there was this drive for alot of my life that was like,
oh, your job is what matters andthis is what matters and
getting the pension and doingthese things, and not like being
grateful to have people in yourlife that love you reaching
your own potential and havingthem support that and you
supporting them in that.
There's something just simpleand beautiful about that that we

(55:23):
almost wanted to make morecomplicated than it needed to be
.

Vin Jay (55:27):
Don't get me started, bro, don't get me started.
I'll go on a 20-minute rant.
I think that there was a lot togain by breaking up the nuclear
family, so to speak, from amonetary standpoint, on a large
scale.
I'll put it quite vaguely, butI think there was a lot to gain

(55:48):
by certain people by breaking upthe nuclear family for money
purposes.

Aaron Pete (55:54):
Wow, I think I've heard that that like one of the
big challenges.
We just rewatched a fewepisodes of I don't know if
you've heard of it Little Houseon the Prairie, my mom told me
about that, but I've never seenit.
Okay.
So it's like a 1970s or 80sshow and it's based in the 1870s
, so it's like 100 yearsprevious to what it was in the
1970s.

(56:14):
And just the priorities one manworking, providing for the
family, making sure everybody'staken care of um and the family,
admiring and appreciating thatand and valuing the work that he
does and and supporting him bymaking sure his food's ready and
going out into the world tryingto do everything he can to

(56:35):
provide for his family.
Then coming home like there's.
I understand that there's like alot of complexity to history
and that it's just a tv show,but there is something about
like now you have to have twoincomes in order to provide for
your family.
You have to put your kids intoa daycare where you're not
watching over them, you have norelationship with your kids
because you're working andthey're in daycare or they're in

(56:57):
school, and then there's justthis huge disconnect that takes
place and you don't have anyconnection with, potentially,
your spouse or your children andyou're just going out getting
after it.
They're getting after it andthen they want to leave the
house as fast as they can.
Like there's just something soempty about that deal, that idea

(57:17):
of where we should be going.

Vin Jay (57:19):
Yeah, and if you know the children are in a rush to go
out and live on their own.
And whatever your values are,anybody listening is more power
to you.
But strictly from theperspective of could there have
been benefit to breaking up thenuclear family, I'll speak from

(57:40):
that.
But do you to each his own.
I don't knock anybody for whatthey desire and what they want
out of this life, but if,instead of, let's say, the
husband being able to go to workand make enough money to
support everybody, the wife nowneeds to go out and work just
for the sake of staying afloat,even if they don't want to, and

(58:01):
then the kids are in a rush toget out and get their own house,
well now you have, you know,three people being taxed on
their income as opposed to one,and the kid is not in one house
with the family anymore.
They just bought their own.
So now two people are payingproperty taxes.
I think it's extremelyfinancially incentivized to
separate the family and there'salso power in the nuclear family

(58:24):
that if you have ill intentions, it's also smart to separate
the nuclear family.

Aaron Pete (58:29):
Brilliant.
The song Savior is one of myfavorites, but I'm always biased
for songs Like.
One of my favorite songs hasalways been Me myself and I,
with bb rexa and uh g easy,because I like the, the flow
back and forth, um, and I foundthis track to be beautiful and
like haunting.
Where did that come from?
my presence, finding mydirection each time that I step

(58:52):
into my faith and say grace forthe life that I question.

Vin Jay (58:55):
Question, I'll be waiting on tomorrow for the rest
of my life.
So, savior again, I'm realizingnow how many, how recurring of
a theme this is for the album.
I wrote that verse to acompletely different beat,

(59:16):
completely completely differentbeat, and we made this beat
because I wanted it to feel abit more ethereal and and
spiritual.
So once we got this beat, Irecorded this verse on it and,
um, I sat down and I was likethis feels really spiritual and
tapped into god and and thedesire to keep pushing forward,

(59:40):
but more in a faith based senseas opposed to like F everybody.
And so when I wrote this hookand that's Cassidy, that's my
wife singing the hook, which Ilove.
I think that just makes thesong even more beautiful.

Aaron Pete (59:55):
There's also something beautiful about the
fact that it's you two, likewhat that was going to be.
One of my questions was toconfirm, because you didn't have
some person listed as as thefeature.
So I was like I feel like thatthat's Cassidy, but I can't
confirm.
So I wanted to ask.
But I love that because it'syou two together, right like
it's it's your guys's story,it's your album, it's you two

(01:00:15):
working together yin and yanghonest, like it's's just.
It's poetic in that sense aswell.

Vin Jay (01:00:22):
Yeah, I would do every song with her if I could.
It's just unfortunately notevery song calls for it.
But yeah, the hook is, and I'llbe waiting on tomorrow for the
rest of my life and I know it'snever coming, but I'll be all
right.
I've been up, I've been down,I've been up, I've been down,
I've been whatever the hell thewords are, but I'm still waiting
around for a savior.

(01:00:42):
Right, should be proud ofmyself, but I'm still waiting
around for a savior.
And that is like I love theinternal struggle of the hook
because it's like it's.
It's persevering because youhave faith, but you're still

(01:01:03):
gonna have these moments of justbecause you have faith in god.
And the fact that things aregoing to get better doesn't mean
these dark moments don't come,and I think that we presented
that really nicely.
There's this beautiful faithfulnature to the song, but also
this like doubt underlying in ittoo.

(01:01:24):
It's so dark and beautiful thesong, and I think that's my
favorite part about it it's soencompassing of life.

Aaron Pete (01:01:34):
The other piece that you said right after that was
and maybe I don't want to besaved.
And you can see that internalstruggle and people can think
like, well, of course you wantto be saved, like that's.
That's just the logic.

Vin Jay (01:01:46):
But you see in the actions you take sometimes that
those aren't aligned with whereyou want to end up I'm so glad
you said that and picked up onit, because I didn't want that
maybe I don't want to be savedto be taken literally.
Obviously, everyone wants to besaved and, and you know, be
accepted by God and all that.
Like you said, the maybe Idon't want to be saved is like,

(01:02:11):
well, if you look at what I'mdoing, like it doesn't really
seem like I'm saying uh or that.
Um, I mean what I'm saying interms of, like, being faithful
and loving God.
Maybe, judging by these actions, that's not the case.

The other piece that it ties into and this is why I
love your music is becausethere's so many like I view like
life is like hyperlinks, likeif you click on that you get
here and like, so I listened toI don't know if you follow the
diary of a ceo or stevenbartlett, uh, I highly recommend
it.
He's uh, he sets the examplefor me on where I want to go as

(01:02:45):
a podcast host.
He, I think he's one of thebest right now.
He's based in the uk, but heinterviewed eric weinstein, um,
and they did like a three-hourinterview.
And one of the points uh,steven bartlett makes is like,
well, like I'm not opposed tothe idea of a God, but you know,
like I'm not, I don't believe100%.
And Eric responds with like getover yourself.

(01:03:06):
You think every person who's ina church is 100% bought and sold
, that there's a God and thatthis all makes sense.
They struggle every single day.
They struggle together in thosebuildings.
Like when you go to church,you're not a hundred percent
knowing everything is beyond ashadow of a doubt, a fact.
You're going in hoping andhaving faith that there is

(01:03:26):
something and you're going tostruggle with that.
And he, he just put it in a waywhere he's like we get so in our
heads about how we think, aboutwhat is god?
Is it a guy in the sky?
Is it like the fundamentals ofDNA?
Is consciousness everywhere?
We get stuck in these spots andthose are good spots to kind of
ponder.
But do you believe this was alldone with some sort of thought,

(01:03:47):
some sort of idea behind it?
And, like to me, I can't denythat there is, like when you
look at how our world hasevolved, how animals evolved,
how we evolved, like you cannotsay that it's all random and
accidental and not on purpose,like it all looks like there's
some sort of reason here andthat's what you're going in when
you're having faith or whenyou're believing.
That's what it means to me tobe religious.

(01:04:09):
It doesn't mean that you'reagreeing that being a
Presbyterian is better thanbeing a Catholic, is better than
being whatever else there is.
You're just agreeing, hey, Ibetter than being whatever else
there is.
You're just agreeing, hey.
I think that there's somethingelse going on here that I don't
fully understand and wesometimes overcomplicate that

(01:04:31):
100% agree.

Vin Jay (01:04:32):
Have you seen the video where it's?
a metaphor and it's two twins inthe womb talking about mother.
Have you seen that video?
No, do you mind if I pull thatup and quote it really fast?
Sure, do it.
It ties in very well to whatwe're talking about.
This is the chat GPT edition,so bear with me.
Sounds good, because otherwiseI would have to put the video up
to the mic and it would be anightmare.
Yeah, but in a mother's wombwere two babies.

(01:04:53):
One asked the other do youbelieve in life after delivery?
The other replied why?
Of course there has to besomething after delivery.
Maybe we are here to prepareourselves for what will be later
.
Nonsense, said the first.
There is no life after delivery.
What kind of life would that be?
The second said I don't know,but there will be more light
than here.
Maybe we will walk with ourlegs and eat from our mouths.

(01:05:16):
Maybe we will have other sensesthat we can't understand now.
The first replied that isabsurd.
Walking is impossible andeating with our mouths
ridiculous.
The umbilical cord suppliesnutrition and everything we need
, but the umbilical cord is soshort.
Life after delivery is to belogically excluded.
The second insisted well, Ithink there is something, and

(01:05:37):
maybe it's different than it ishere.
Maybe we won't need thisphysical court anymore.
The first replied nonsense.
And moreover, if there is life,then why has no one ever come
back from there?
Delivery is the end of life andin the after delivery there is
nothing but darkness and silenceand oblivion.
It takes us nowhere.
Well, I don't know, said thesecond, but certainly we will

(01:05:57):
meet mother and she will takecare of us.
The first replied mother, youactually believe in mother?
That's laughable.
If mother exists, where is shenow?
The second said she is allaround us, we are surrounded by
her, we are of her.
It is in her that we live.
Without her, this world wouldnot and could not exist, said
the first.
Well, I don't see.
That's beautiful.

I really like that.
Do you feel like this has beena more recent journey or do you
feel like you've always beenconnected to faith?

Vin Jay (01:06:45):
I grew up Catholic.
I was baptized, confirmedcommunion, all that, and then,
as life went on, I had pitfallsand strayed from my faith, but I
would say in the last year orso I've definitely gotten closer
to God, because it's just allthat matters, dude.

(01:07:06):
I think everything stems fromthat.

I'm seeing this more and more and I don't know if
you're seeing it.
I've seen Wes Huffley go onwith Andrew Schultz and talk
about his understanding of thebiblical texts, like what they
actually mean, what they'redated to, how that works.
Joe Rogan my understanding ishe's starting to go to church
now, like we're seeing.
Obviously that's two examples,but we're starting to see there

(01:07:33):
was really like a decline inpeople's faith, I would say from
probably 2010 to 2020, like wasa steep decline, and now we're
seeing an uptick of people whoaren't like being really strict
about it.
The way I think people think ofreligion but are being more
open minded to it, and Gremlintalks about needing God and

(01:07:55):
having faith.
Do you feel like there's anuptick that you're seeing as
well?

Vin Jay (01:08:00):
Yes, and I don't think it's any coincidence that it's
happening.
I think the downturn in faiththat happened over the past
decade or so, when compared tolike call it like, I don't know
the sixties or like decades anddecades ago, when things were a
bit more traditional, let's say,I think that loss in faith

(01:08:20):
causes people to take certainactions that are maybe not best
for themselves or society andthen, to put it bluntly, there's
like a rise in evil andnefarious acts because of that,
which, in turn, causes people toturn back to God nefarious acts
because of that, which in turncauses people to turn back to

(01:08:42):
God.

That's a really good point, because you just see so
many issues that, like we'retrying to pretend could be
solved by government and, like Isee, within Canada we have a
lot of nonprofits that arefunded by government and what I
just see is like people beingpaid to do jobs that would have
traditionally been done by achurch group wanting to give
back to the community, and wekind of said we don't need those
people anymore, we'll just payother people to do the same work

(01:09:06):
, and then there's not thatheart and soul that goes into
the work the same way.

Vin Jay (01:09:11):
Yeah, I think it ties back into that.
Like we try to intellectualizeeverything and I think there's a
huge portion of this life andprobably like the majority of
this life is very energetic andspiritual and the fact that we
write that off we're doing ahuge disservice to ourselves.

Agreed the song Break the Cycle to me.
I took it as breaking familycycles, and when I just I'll
just give you a bit ofbackground.
My, so we have what's calledindian residential schools in
canada that historically ran.
They it was a racist policywhere they take indian children
and put them into schools, uh,which different religious

(01:09:54):
beliefs, like catholicism andpesceterian, took in those kids.
They were abused.
We have like lots of records onthe abuse that had taken place
there.
They were viewed as likesubhuman in a lot of those
operations and so my grandmotherwas like abused in those and
she struggled with alcoholismher entire life as a consequence
of going through thatexperience.
And then so, through that, shehad my mother and she was born

(01:10:18):
with fetal alcohol syndromedisorder because her mother
drank alcohol her whole life,and so my mom was born with a
disability.
She raised me as a single motherand then I'm born, and the
piece that I find fascinating islike my community has struggled
with this, like my First Nationcommunity has struggled with
this because all of their familymembers went to Indian

(01:10:39):
residential school.
And so you have all thesepeople who are reliving this
alcoholism cycle.
And I was just elected chief,like a month ago to my community
, and so I'm trying to help themmove away from all of this.
But it's so meaningful to methat, like one person can make
that difference, that me beingin this role, I can change this
cycle, hopefully, uh, with theirsupport and their commitment

(01:11:01):
and their desire to do so, movea whole community in a different
direction.
And so I love the song breakthe cycle, because that chorus
just hits on like I'm walking ona tightrope, the one that I
need, and all I want to do is befree someone show me how to
break this cycle before, Beforeit breaks me.
Someone get me up off thistightrope.

(01:11:23):
I can't find my balance.
I think I might fall at theriddle.
I only wanted to be free.
Someone show me how to breakthis cycle.
It's not easy.
People are like, oh, you'regoing to be a terrible chief,
you're the youngest chief, youdon't know enough, you're not
going to do a good job.
I'm trying to make sureeverybody's happy with what I'm
doing, while also knowing wehave to change so much of what

(01:11:45):
we've done previously that it'sgoing to be difficult to get
everybody on the train with me.
And so just can you reflect onthat song and, I think, the
impact that it's going to have.

Vin Jay (01:11:55):
Yeah, so dual meaning for break the cycle.
For me it is personal, internalcycles as well, but definitely
what you said.
Also, I think our parents areraised a certain way, like you

(01:12:15):
said, and then they raise us tothe best of their ability and
their peak.
That they have reached in theiryoung adult years becomes our
ground level and then we raisefrom there, right, um, but that
doesn't mean that everyone can'tbe stuck in this cyclic
behavior because of conditioningand circumstances and how we
were raised.

(01:12:36):
And I think when you get theability to separate yourself
from that and break your cycles,you can in turn, help others
break theirs.
And and it's not I was going tosay, it's our duty to do so but
it's bigger than that and moresimple than that.
It's.
It's just what you should do.

(01:12:58):
When you break that cycle andsee others around you still
suffering, it's not like, wow,this means I have a
responsibility and I need to dothis.
No, you're just going to wantto.
If you're a good person,because if you have found the
next step or a door that opensand it's lighter in that room
and the air is fresher andthere's more abundance in there,
of course you're going to turnaround to the people you care

(01:13:19):
about and be like, hey, comethis way, this room is much
better, so it's bigger than aduty.
It's just right and innatelywhat you're going to want.
So I think, as we break thesechains that we've had on
ourselves, as life goes onbecause we keep putting
ourselves to the fire, right tosuccess and accolades and all
that's cool, but that's just afucking byproduct we put

(01:13:41):
ourselves to this fire and breakthese chains so that we can do
the same for others, and that'smore or less the concept of the
song.

Do you feel like and this is just a general question
, not specific to any one familydo you feel like there has been
a bit of a move away from thatposition that you mentioned
earlier where, like, yourparents get to a certain point
and then you're supposed to goexceed them?
It feels like to me a lot ofimmigrant families have that
expectation of their kids.
Like you come to this country,they work as plumbers and in

(01:14:12):
trades and they want their kidsto go to university and go
become the banker or the doctoror the geneticist or whatever
the job is.
But it seems like people whoare from here, sometimes like
the parents, don't want theirkids to do better than them,
want their kids to do reasonable.
And I just look at, as we'vediscussed, like how our system
operates right now, like a lotof the people who are 40, 50, 60

(01:14:36):
, they have the big house, butthe people who are 15, 25, 35,
that's an uphill battle and itseems like a piece of that is
that they are okay doing betterthan the next generation and
that that's something differentthan we've seen previously.

Vin Jay (01:14:56):
Interesting.
I'm going to answer this in afew parts.
Um, when I say, do better, oror raise yourself from their
peak, which is now your groundfloor, right?
Um, I think in the realistsense, I'm speaking in terms of,
like, personal development,right, because my buddy came to

(01:15:17):
me a few weeks ago and he'supset because his mom's going
through some shit and he's likeit just sucks that, like I have
to parent my parent.
It just hurts, like you look atthem like this superhero.
Now I have to parent my parentand I'm like dude, that's how
it's supposed to go,unfortunately, cause if you are
not able to teach them anythingor feel like you have superior

(01:15:38):
understanding than them incertain realms, then what did
you do with the ground floorthat they gave you?
You did nothing.
So it's a tough pill to swallowthat you need to parent your
parents, but that's exactly whatyou're supposed to be doing,
because everything they everlearned was instilled into you
at a young age.
Now, what did you do with that?
So, when I say become better,that's what I mean.

(01:16:00):
It's for the sake of betteringthem, because they gave you
everything.
They know the good, the bad andthe ugly.
Now, in terms of like them beingokay with us not doing better
than them.
I don't know, that's probably aperson to person thing.

(01:16:22):
I do agree, though, that it isvery common in immigrants for to
be like I'm going to, like, laydown my life, I'm going to work
very hard to make sure that youhave that you're better off
than I was.
I think maybe the reason that'snot the case in first world
countries when you're born intoit, is because you're born into
complete comfort.
So there's, you don't feel likethe same fire to move.

(01:16:45):
There's your back's, notagainst a wall at all, you kind
of can just door dash andInstacart everything to your
house and you know everythingyou need is in your little box.

I love that you have one quote here If I want a
better life, then it's time Igrow, and I'm wondering if.
Did you ever have to go througha period where you went from a
victim mentality to a growthmindset?

Vin Jay (01:17:11):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
That's what changed my wholelife.
I think that's what separatesthe winners from the losers.
Honestly, as this happened tome, and that's why I am the way
I am, and that accepting ofdefeat is just, it's not.
I could not do that.
You know you need again.
That's what this life is.
Face those defeats, overcomethose hurdles.

(01:17:33):
That's what it's about and youneed if you want to be
successful or even go towardsyour purpose.
There's going to be roadblocks.
To to accept defeat first fromsomething that is inevitable is
is crazy to me.

(01:17:54):
That's like going on a rollercoaster and saying like if this
thing elevates at all fromground level, I'm going to be
pissed and I'm giving up.
It's like that's the entirepoint of the fucking roller
coaster.
So to to admit defeatimmediately from a roadblock
which is guaranteed when you'retrying to grow, it's just
backwards thinking.
You need to re shape themindset you have around

(01:18:18):
roadblocks and understand thatit's just, it is a part of it,
it's a part of life, it's a partof success and growing it's
weird that we can do that withvideo games.

To your earlier point, yeah, we cannot see it so
clearly when it's our own life.
Like you, you battle a littleboss and then you battle another
little boss and like you don'tgo.
Oh well, like why do I have tobattle any bosses?
Like why can't I just walkthrough this whole scene.
It's like the whole point isyou face the little one and like
I think even good shows, like Ilove suits there's always like

(01:18:47):
little issues that they dealwith every episode, but then
there's a big boss of the seasonthat they're up against, and so
it's like you're constantlyfighting something, whether it's
something something small orsomething bigger.
And there's like we love that,we intrinsically love that we
don't want to watch a showwithout an antagonist or play a
video game without challengesand so like, but then we divorce
that when it's like real life.

Vin Jay (01:19:08):
Yeah, I think we as humans naturally stray away from
discomfort, but we're doingourselves such a disservice.
And this, this quote, is aboutcriticism, but I think it rhymes
well with what we're speakingabout.
It's like if you want to avoidcriticism, you can just do
nothing and be nothing.
The problem with that is youwon't be able to escape your own

(01:19:30):
criticism at that point.
So I think if you try to avoidthese roadblocks that are
inevitable on the road tosuccess, you're going to get hit
with the, the cost and negativeoutcomes of of not even trying,
which are going to be worsethan those roadblocks, because
at least the roadblocks aretemporary.

Exactly the song nostalgic.
The part that I really likedabout it was I wake and defy
limits and that tie-in for mewas just like you hear about

(01:20:16):
people who go to the gym andthey don't push themselves that
day.
And there's that complacencyeven though you went, you did
the right thing.
There's this instinct to notsee exactly what your limits are
.
And for you, I'm just wonderinghow do you keep pushing
yourself and continuing to growwhen you do that every single
day?

Vin Jay (01:20:37):
It's the.
It's loving the journey, notnecessarily even loving it.
It's understanding that thejourney is the entire thing.
There is no destination.
It doesn't matter what I'vegotten so far although I'm
grateful for it I never did itfor the outcome.
I'm doing it because each day Ishow up and even if we're just
talking about making songs, itdoesn't matter how much success

(01:20:58):
I've had off songs, cause that'snot why I do it.
It's that if I can show upthree weeks in a row and the
first 20 days were just not itand I'm hitting brick wall after
brick wall, it's that day.
It does work.
That's like that is what it'sabout, and that breaking through
on day 21 would have meantnothing without the other 20

(01:21:19):
sucking.
There's no yin and yang.
What makes it good is that therewas so much bad before it.
If you have nothing to compareit to, what is it?
It's nothing.
Everything's relative.
So the drive comes from like.
It's not accolade driven.
If it was accolade driven, Iwould have been complacent a

(01:21:40):
long time ago, because I'mcomfortable, thank God.
But okay, I went through aperiod where I was like oh, my
life is good, I don't have to doanything, I don't need to do
anything.
I can coast if I want to.
That sucks so bad.
You think you want to donothing until you do nothing and
then you realize how bad itsucks.

(01:22:01):
So I realized it's.
I'm not doing this for what Iwould gain from a big song.
I just like the songs becomebig because they're great.
You know the ones that don't,maybe they're not as great, but
the ones that get big.
Like if you told me to make mysong goat or a song equally as

(01:22:22):
good tomorrow, I probablycouldn't.
It's not up to me, but becauseI keep showing up, those things
just end up happening and that'swhat it's all about.
I just keep going to the lakeand keep fishing and and I keep
catching big fish because I'mthere so often but I catch a
bunch of small fish and no fishdays, and it's just part of it.
I just like going to the lakebecause that's fucking life.

(01:22:43):
This finish line thing is sostupid, it's so dumb.

I like that because I've heard this idea of the muse
and that you're supposed to goand meet the muse where it is.
You're supposed to go, show upthere, sit down, wait for it to
appear, and you're waiting forit Like it won't come every day.
That's not a guarantee, butyou're going there hoping that
it does and ready to acceptwhatever comes, because we don't

(01:23:07):
know where ideas and creativitycomes from.
We can't say, oh, this, thereason you made that song is
because something happened toyou yesterday that caused that
song to be created.
Sometimes that might happen,but there's lots of songs, I'm
sure that just almost flowthrough you.

Vin Jay (01:23:22):
Yeah, it's all we can do is show up because, like you
said, it's not up to us.
When that for lack of a betterterm when inspiration strikes,
it is not up to you and maybemaybe sometimes you can muscle
through it.
But, like it's, the great songsare never muscling through it.
It's.
You have went into this room sooften that eventually you met

(01:23:43):
someone else while you were inthere.
But it's, the only way it'sgoing to happen is if you keep
showing up exactly where did thename of the song nostalgic come
from?
how did that one come out?
So I was, was at Banks's.
We're making the album.
He cooks up the beat.
I read my whole verse that day.
I figured out the melody forthe hook and as I'm just

(01:24:04):
mumbling words, the wordnostalgia came out.
But I was like the verse isn'tnecessarily about nostalgia.
So how do we make this makesense?
I don't just want a catchy hookand a verse that has nothing to
do with it.
So we put a fun spin on theterm nostalgic and a bit
arrogant spin on it, becauseagain, the verse is just real, a

(01:24:25):
little cocky and fun.
So I was like we can't get deepon the hook.
It makes no sense.
So it says I've been sonostalgic All I do is win, and
every time I wake up I know I'mgoing to do it again and I've
been so nostalgic I'm losing myfriends, right.
And it's like well, what do youmean?
I'm so nostalgic I'm losing myfriends, or I'm so nostalgic
when I wake up I win.

(01:24:45):
It's saying that like I'mbecoming so used to success and
like breaking through thesebarriers that when I do it I get
nostalgic and I'm losing myfriends because the amount of
energy that requires over hereis causing that.
So it's a fun little twist onthe word of like a cocky way of
saying I win so much that when Ido it I get nostalgic.

Okay, for the song Journey.
Did you know how hard this onewas going to hit Like?
Did you have any sense prior?

Vin Jay (01:25:13):
No, when people have told me their favorite songs off
this album, aside from thesingles, it's been blowing my
mind because these songs, youknow, I've heard them all a
thousand and a half times, soall the magic is gone for me.
But when people are like yo onyour mind, I wish and Journey,
I'm like what I'm so thrown off,especially Journey.

(01:25:37):
Granted, I'm my biggest critic.
I think Cryptic destroyed it.
I think Lansdowne, who's on thehook, destroyed it.
And then my verse.
I'm like my verse is okay.
I'm not like a huge fan of myverse, Wow, yeah.
And so when people are like Ilove it, I'm like that's cool,
that you love it, I guess.

One of my favorite parts of it is I don't need rest
and recovery.
I have a blessing in front of meand I love that because you're
so good at phrasing those thingsand it just feels like we've

(01:26:18):
been stuck in this work-lifebalance culture, this burnout
culture, for so long and thereisn't that like you're alive,
like you have the opportunity infront of you to like go do
exactly what you want to do, andeven if you're not there today,
you get the privilege ofbuilding your empire, whatever
that looks like, whatever laneyou want to go down, it's your
life, it's your opportunity toreach your full potential.

(01:26:40):
And it's just like we justdon't say that and people forget
.

Vin Jay (01:26:44):
Yeah, I love when people are like, oh, you should
take a break, you should take arest.
Take a break from what exactly?
From the thing that I chose todo every day because it gives me
purpose.
Is that what I should take abreak from, and what do you
suggest I replace it with?
I don't need a break from doingsomething that makes me feel
purposeful for having a goalthat doesn't have a finish line.

(01:27:06):
I don't need a break frompartaking in the thing that
brings me and other people joyand feeds my family.
I don't need a break from that.
So I think, yeah, I don't needrest and recovery.
I have a blessing in front ofme.
It's so bizarre.
You need a break.
I think you need a break fromwhat you're doing.
If you feel like people need totake breaks, you find something

(01:27:27):
that you don't feel like youneed to take a break from and do
that shit as often as possible.

Exactly, and the name of the song is perfect,
because it's not calledDestination or Final Destination
or or you've arrived.
It's called journey.
Because the greatest gift isthat, like you come out with
like the human experience andlike I'm just wondering, what is
it like to be able to look atthese chapters of your life?
Like so many people, theycouldn't tell you the difference
between when they were 20 andwhen they were 30.
But you're getting like realdocumentation of where your mind

(01:27:54):
was during different chaptersof your life.

Vin Jay (01:27:57):
It's one of my favorite parts personally about the
music is to look back and seethese checkpoints and timestamps
of who I was that a picturecould never do justice to,
because it's quite literallylike my stream of consciousness
at that point in time.
And one of my favorite quotesis art is how we decorate space,

(01:28:20):
music is how we decorate time,and I think listening to these
albums is is a real good exampleof that.

I'm going to need a few minutes with that one,
because that was really profoundas well, with cryptic wisdom
and lands down.
How did, how did you bringthose they're they're very
different styles.
How did you bring that alltogether and make it coalesce
together?

Vin Jay (01:28:44):
I think I had three other people sing that hook for
me and none of them panned outLike I wrote the hook and I
shipped it out to a bunch ofpeople and I think being able to

(01:29:10):
articulate yourself as asuperpower because when you know
what you want and you canconvey it to it to feel like
it's coming from someone's soul,like they mean it with
everything in their being and Ihad talented singers sing it but
when I heard them sing it to meI didn't necessarily believe it
.
I wasn't infected by what theywere saying.

(01:29:33):
Like when you play amotivational video and you get
chills because it just resonatesso hard, that's what I need.
And Lansdowne crushed it.
When they sent that to me I waslike, thank you, that's exactly
what I needed.
Energy wise.
Same with Cryptic.
Obviously he's extremelylyrically talented, but the

(01:29:53):
journey no pun intended ofenergy.
Throughout his verse it startsand you could hear almost a
little bit of like pain andreflection in his voice and then
, as it goes stronger, he'sclimbing out of the depths of
hell energetically.
He's getting louder and morebass in his tone and that is
what I need out of the song.
I need to be taken on a journeywithout me listening.

(01:30:16):
I need to be taken on a journeyfrom the vibrations alone that
changed the way I'm feeling asthe song goes on, and they both
destroyed it in that room.

Is there something surreal about having an idea in
your head and then watchingpeople bring it to life in a way
that you you couldn't have,like you, you almost can't,
can't say what you're lookingfor, that they, they understand
the assignment almost like intheir soul?

Vin Jay (01:30:40):
yeah, it's.
It's a two-piece thing rightyour ability to articulate what
you're looking for energeticallyand their receptiveness.
So it is like when it doeshappen it's really special,
because just because you canexplain yourself well doesn't
mean the other person's going toexactly understand or be able
to execute, even if they dounderstand.
So it's like a three-part thingthat needs to all go correctly

(01:31:03):
to get shit like that.

Where did the song Adolescent Reject come from?
For you?

Vin Jay (01:31:11):
For you to ask that about that song specifically.
You couldn't have asked it fora better song?

I don't lose my way when the passion pass.
I walk on shattered glass justto get my family cash A human
first, father second and arapper last.
You'll never know where to findme.

Vin Jay (01:31:28):
Going through these growing pains.
So I was going to Binks' houselike three days a week, maybe
even more to work on this albumat a point, and he lives an hour
and a half away from me.
I'm driving to Binks' houselike three days a week, maybe
even more, to work on this albumat a point, and he lives an
hour and a half away from me.
I'm driving to his house oneday and I realized 10 minutes
into the ride, when I go to playmy Apple Music, that for some
reason I don't have access toany music on my phone.

(01:31:50):
I think my internet was down orsomething of that nature, so
the only music I was able tolisten to was basically files on
my phone.
Whatever has been downloaded onmy computer from you know stems
.
So I had like the acapellaunmixed from, like my song what
If from 2020.
Obviously, I'm not listening tothat in the car.

(01:32:11):
That's crazy.
So it's just random files ofnonsense and as I'm scrolling
through trying to find someactual music in these files,
that beat comes on.
It's from a producer.
I have no idea who they were,never heard the name.
It was produced by two people.
It was like Dylan, dylan Cushand, and, oh my God, I forget

(01:32:32):
the second guy's name, buteither way, both super talented
producers and I'm like what isthis?
And I look and I'm likeproducers often send me beat
packs because my email is likepublic on my YouTube.
So if you want to send me beatsor business inquiries, you can
and they must have sent me abeat pack years ago and I just

(01:32:52):
download it to my computer, giveit a quick look and if nothing
resonates immediately, I'm likeokay, onto the next.
Nothing came from this.
But this random beat pops up onmy way to Binks's to work on
something, a different song, andI'm like this is actually a
really fire, like introspectiveenergy.
So I start writing to it on mydrive.
I pull up to Binks's house.

(01:33:13):
He's like are you ready to work?
And I'm like give me 20 moreminutes in.
In my car I just found thisbeat on the way here and I found
something here.
So I finished my verse and wedidn't do what we planned to do
for that day.
Instead, I recorded over thatbeat.

That never would have happened if my internet was
working wow, yeah, and so howdid it come about with Oswin
Benjamin?

Vin Jay (01:33:36):
So, once I understood the topic, or listened back to
my verse and understood where Iwas going with it and the
intention of the song, it is, Ithink, the most melancholy,
introspective record on thealbum.
It's not about a hit, it's justabout hey, this is my thoughts

(01:33:58):
right now, in this moment intime, and I want to speak on
these few things right now.
Um and then, uh, we got, uh, Ithink cole, this, this girl
named cole sung the hook andshe's incredibly talented.
And, um, I'm sorry I'm tangent,tangent thing, but I don't even

(01:34:20):
know why I started the verselike that.
But it set the tone foreverything, like welcome to the
journey of an adolescent, rejectright, and then who turned into
a man that's full of class, inneed of recess.
And I think those first twolines just encapsulate where I
am right now, better thananything, better than the rest
of the album as a whole.
And it's because I'm from alittle badass 17 year old kid

(01:34:44):
who's just doing everything badand wrong, to a father and a
husband who is maintaining abusiness for the sake of
supporting his family, with along-term goal in mind that we
can, you know, do whatever withthis business in the long run
and then go live our livesspecifically for that, and we
could put the business asidebecause it's taken care of at

(01:35:07):
that point.
To go from person A to person Bin that scenario is exactly how
I feel right now.
I feel the shift from a boy toa man heavier now than I have at
any other point in my life.
It feels like the transition islike more complete than it's
ever been, as opposed to beingin that middle ground of like

(01:35:28):
young adult.
And Oswin Benjamin is just oneof the most talented rappers
I've ever heard and he's alsoextremely introspective,
intelligent.
And he is one of the mosttalented rappers I've ever heard
and he's also extremelyintrospective, intelligent and
he is one of those people thatwhen you send him a song,
understands the assignment, he'sreally in tune with himself and
and everything going on.

(01:35:48):
So when I sent it to him, I waslike this energy is good, it's
laid back and I know he's goingto say some things that are
really like profound on hisverse.
And he, he delivered.

I couldn't agree more.
What would you name thischapter of your life?

Vin Jay (01:36:05):
Oh, wow, wow, wow, wow.
The third act, because I feellike I went from a kid to a

(01:36:27):
young adult who was driven, butprobably still for selfish
reasons, and now a man who stillhas drive, but not at the cost
of other things, and the driveand business is not number one
anymore.

I love that.
The song who's Next, you say,went from a hobby to a passion
and a business appeared.
Is there a moment where youcould feel that that change?

(01:37:09):
take place from it being apassion to a business.

Vin Jay (01:37:13):
Yeah, yeah, the hobby, hobby to a passion.
Then a business appeared, yeah.
So once the mumble rapper thinghappened, obviously everything
took off for me.
But I was just on go mode.
It was just like we need toride this momentum and wave for
everything it's worth.
But once I got out of thescarcity mindset of like, okay,

(01:37:35):
we may not be viral tomorrow, weneed to make sure we just keep
putting songs out and put songsout, and I kind of settled into
the fact that I have establishedand built something that is
solid and it is now time tomaintain it and grow it and keep
the reputation alive and thinka bit more long-term, because

(01:37:56):
this is no longer about a quickrelevance grab.
This is about really maintaining, solidifying and growing
something that is big.
It's big and it's everything itfeeds my family.
It's that moment when I waslike, okay, not take your foot
off the gas, but stop running inscarcity mode.

(01:38:17):
If you could slow down a bit,greatness does not rush.
Slow down a bit and you cancontinue to put great things on
top of this already great thingthat you have built.
But if you continue with this,just give, give, give, give,
give.
You're doing yourself in thebusiness, a disservice as the
fans, because you're not tryingto give them great stuff, you're

(01:38:39):
trying to give them a lot ofstuff.

Is it scary at all?
Is it more scary when you'regrinding and you're like
nobody's discovered me yetbecause I haven't had my big hit
, like nothing's dropped yet.
That blows people away.
Then that moment happens.
Is that period of time moreterrifying?
Because it's like it's in yourhand and if you don't utilize it
in that moment you'll like youcould disappear into like

(01:39:05):
there's lots of people who'vedone great work and had great
albums, and then they kind ofdisappear and kind of fade away.
Is that moment particularlyscary, or is there more pressure
in that moment when you havethe opportunity to kind of take
full advantage?

Vin Jay (01:39:19):
Oh, yeah, the pressure.
That's the biggest differenceof oh, when I get what I want,
I'm going to be happy.
No, when you get what you want,you're going to feel pressure
because now you're trying tohold onto it for dear life.
So yeah, it's a complete shift.
Everyone thinks when they getthere, like then I'll be good.
No, you're gonna.
You're gonna be more nervouswhen you get it.

(01:39:39):
But you kind of have to rootyourself in the belief that you
are good enough to replicatewhat you've done multiple times
and you don't have to be scaredIf you just take a deep breath,
center yourself and know you'recapable of executing successful
things over and over and overagain if you show up enough.

Humbly.
I think your greatest line ofall time that truly represents
you was in this song and it'swhen you say you hear abundance
in my voice.
This isn't the product ofdistress.
I think that encapsulates likewho you are as an artist.
I think that encapsulates likewho you are as an artist and to
your point about cryptic wisdomand Lansdowne and how they
showed up with the soul in theirvoice.

(01:40:20):
When you drop that line, there'ssomething like deeper in it
when you say it that just likehit me really hard.
Of like that's exactly it.
Like some people they take whatthey've been through and the
challenges and adversity theyface and they lean on that.
But there's something aboutyour style that has abundance in
it where other people are notin a bad way but they're kind of

(01:40:42):
just focused on the bad thathas happened and you have like
this, like no, but you can goget it.
Like you can start from nothingand you can go get it.
That I just I feel like thatline just encapsulates did that
hit you the same way?
Of like that's who I am?

Vin Jay (01:40:56):
yeah now I said that um , adolescent reject.
Those first two linesencapsulate the whole album, um,
better than anything else.
Personally, I don't think who'snext is the best song, because
there's a lot that goes into asong, like sonics and and hit
factors and things like that,but in terms of the
introspective nature of who'snext, that is probably my
favorite song.
Uh, on the album with that, uh,from that perspective rather,

(01:41:21):
and yes for the, uh, you hearabundance when I rap this ain't
the product of distress, it's.
I think that's why, like dude,the, the music is just a, an
extension of us.
So you can fake the funk forone or two songs if you want,
but like there's no longevity inthat you can only fake for so
long.
So when I'm talking like that,that is genuinely how I feel,

(01:41:44):
and and I wouldn't be able tosay things like that with such
conviction if I didn't take thetime out to take inventory of
what's going well in my life.
Like I said, there was.

There was also a lesson I took away from it and I
like I think it's so valuable.
One of the pieces you talkedabout is like I have to go earn
my spot again, like I'm going toget up here, I'm going to earn
my spot again.
And I just remember and I'msure Tim remembers how nervous I
was to interview you for thefirst time, like how sweaty my
hands were, how like I was, likeman, like I listen to his songs

(01:42:15):
all the time I'm gonna bespeaking to him, he's giving me
an opportunity here and justbeing able to go through that
feeling again, prepping for thisinterview and wanting to earn
your time again, wanting you tofeel like like, oh, like I'm
gonna give this guy some time.
Is it gonna be worth it?
Is he gonna ask the rightquestions?
Like you would.
I still remember you telling melike I did one guy's podcast and
it was like I gave him a shotand he completely like fumbled

(01:42:37):
the ball and did not utilize theopportunity, and like you never
want to be in that you want togo earn it again.
And there was just somethingrefreshing about those points of
like yeah, you can start togrow, you can start to have
success on your channel or startto have success with getting
bigger interviews, but likeowning it and earning it and
feeling like you're you, don't,you belong there, cause that

(01:42:57):
imposter syndrome.
I'm really against that idea,cause if you earn it, if you've
got that blood, sweat and tearsthat's gone into it, you don't
feel like anything's beinghanded to you unjustly.
You feel like you should bethere because you've earned it
and I just I love that energy inthat song.

Vin Jay (01:43:12):
Yeah, I think every day , we show up to do our job,
whether it's you with thepodcast or me with making songs.
Each song, each podcast granteda bit different of realms, but
every individual one should beable to stand on its own.
I shouldn't be able to say,because I made goat or mumble

(01:43:33):
rapper, now I can make a bunchof shit songs, like every song
it it.
If it's someone's first timehearing me, it should fucking
resonate, because we it can getclouded by business, this whole
thing, podcast music, there'smoney to be made, so on and so
forth, right, but we should justbe trying to make and create

(01:43:57):
great things for the sake ofmaking things that are great and
that we are able to share withthe world because they're great.
To do it at, again, a place ofscarcity or just for money, it's
like why are you even bringingthat into the world?
Why do you even feel the needto create that into existence?

(01:44:17):
So every day, we should have toearn our spot.
I've seen certain times where mynumbers have slipped because I
haven't dropped a good song infive months, right, and it's
like okay, what did you think,though?
Because you dropped X amount ofgood songs, you could coast for
the rest of your life.
No, you have to continuallyprove yourself.
No one owes you anything forwhat you've done.

(01:44:40):
What are you doing right now?
Are you continuing to makeincredible things and say, hey
world, look at this thing I made?
I think it's worth yourattention.
If you're not doing that, thenyou are not owed anybody's
attention.

I don't care what you've doneiantly said, the
beast unleashed six.
Uh, I have a question for youabout that genre.
So I know, like echo has likehis freestyle, where I think he
has six of them now.
Uh, nf has his intro series,intro one, two and three.
How how does that come about?
How do you, like you startedbeast unleashed one?

(01:45:14):
How does that become its ownkind of realm, because those are
also almost like mini chaptersof your life, of like your
growth in style.
How does that come about?

Vin Jay (01:45:42):
So I'm going to be very honest with you right now.
So Beast Unleashed 1, afterMumble Rapper happened, had
become my biggest song Like itwas streaming better than
anything and it still is mybiggest song.
So the producer I was workingwith at the time he's like we
should make a second one becauseit's just a smart move.
You have a lot of like viralityright now and clearly it has a
name to it.
So if you drop a second one itcould cause some pull, he's like

(01:46:04):
, but you need to show up on therecord and I was like, true, I
like that idea.
So maybe initially it was just abusiness move, but after that
that it has transformed into man.
How would I even word?
This is like how lyrical andcreative can we be and push the

(01:46:30):
boundaries of what should happenin a rap song?
I like I need the beat to soundlike no other thing that is
popular right now or that I'vedone.
I need to create a new planetthat we can live on on this song
and I need to make sure thatwhat I do on it is something

(01:46:51):
that's so incredible that Icould just put a box in a town
square, stand on it and do thatthing and it would cause a crowd
.
So I need to create this newplace.
Beast Unleashed has developedsuch a name to it now for me
that you are never going tocatch me just putting out a
Beast Unleashed.
For the fuck of it, if I'mputting out a Beast Unleashed,

(01:47:12):
it is going to have some mindblowing elements to it, because
that's the entire point of itnow.

I couldn't agree more and I'm wondering if you
can reflect on exactly what youjust described creating fuel for
people.
Because, to your point, like Ican go tell someone like, hey,
you got to go get after it, thisis what you do, this is how you
do, this is how you do it.
But music really is that placewhere you can go to every single
day to get that same dose of,like, mindset, passion, drive,

(01:47:42):
and you can access that at anytime.
You don't have to sit down witha friend who's gonna be like,
no, you got this, you just gotto go get after it.
It's.
It's a place you can go as muchas you need to to stay on the
path and, like I think about whyI am where I am today, and it's
in part because I can listen tovoices that inspire me when I'm
on my way to my interview, orwhen I'm on my way to work, or
when I'm on my way to go recorda podcast.

(01:48:03):
Like I can get the inspirationI need and then walk in and kill
it.
What does it mean to you to beable to provide that?
And Beast Unleashed is such aspace specifically for that goal
.

Vin Jay (01:48:15):
I think it's a beautiful byproduct that I'm
able to inspire others, but I'mjust trying to do the best I can
.
If I had to put it simply, I'mso happy to inspire anybody,
from one person to a millionpeople.
Awesome, that is an incrediblebyproduct.
I am just showing up because itis the best thing that I have

(01:48:35):
found to do with my time is trymy best.
That is the best way I've foundto spend my time.

You mentioned that you've gotten into boxing.
You may have heard that.
I think it's a Marvin Haglerline that like it's hard to get
up and train at 6am with silksheets, and in this song I feel
like you kind of touch on that.
Like that your ambition waswaning a little bit.
Where were you during thatperiod and how did you kind of
change that mindset?

Vin Jay (01:49:04):
Yeah, I have felt my ambition for music specifically
wane more than once in the pastbecause it's like you know, why
do I care to be perceived as areally good rapper, or better
than most?
Because deep down I don't carewhat others think about me.
So if that was my driver for solong of like, I want to impress

(01:49:29):
people and all of a sudden theopinion of others doesn't matter
to you anymore.
Your fire is gone, yourambition is gone.
So I had to change my fire, soto speak, and the way I got out
of lacking ambition wasrealizing that this is not for

(01:49:52):
anybody else but myself.
The byproducts whether it's theaccolades, the money, the
inspiring others, all cool, allgreat, but when I am not trying
to do better than I didyesterday, I am more sad, and so
I don't want to be more sad.
So I'm going to continue to beambitious for the sake of living

(01:50:12):
a purposeful, fulfilling life,and once I realized that was the
intention, now behindeverything, the ambition is a
lot harder to lose than becauseyou realize that having ambition
isn't a choice so you could bemore successful.
It's a choice because theopposite of being ambitious is
just going to bring you to likea place of despair over a long

(01:50:33):
enough period of time absolutely.

May I ask how many songs didn't make the album?

Vin Jay (01:50:39):
jesus.
Great song, a great song, greatquestion, um, complete songs
probably three, but in terms ofhow many songs were created
throughout the album process,that just didn't end up panning
out way more than three,probably closer like 15 to 20,

(01:51:00):
wow what is that like?

to have to almost like let those ideas go and just
go like nope, gotta move onstill learning how to do it, bro
um.

Vin Jay (01:51:10):
But what I will do, because there's greatness,
there's bits of greatness in allof these things that we've
created, but sometimes the finalproduct just isn't great enough
.
But so what I'll do is, likeI'll revisit.
If I have a verse recorded overa beat and it has no hook,
right, and it's just a verse,one over a beat, that's OK.

(01:51:31):
But the verse has some realpower behind it.
Okay, in three months maybeI'll bounce out that acapella to
a producer and be like I needyou to create something crazy
around this.
And then it kind of breathesnew life into it.
And now this beat that he puton it that I've never heard
before makes me think of anotherartist who could elevate the

(01:51:52):
record even further.
And now it gives us an idea forthe hook which changes the
entire intention and energy ofthe song.
So it's having letting go ofthese things, having faith that
down the line they will findtheir home in another fashion.

Fascinating.
The other piece is youobviously order the album in a
logic.
If someone listens to the fullalbum in order, what do you
think they'll take away from itin comparison to choosing a few
songs?

Vin Jay (01:52:24):
One, I will think they will understand me much better
as an individual.
I think they will understandthe, especially because you know
it's coming from one person,although there's features.
Um, they will.
It will further help themunderstand the complexity of a

(01:52:44):
human being and that it's okayto have these different sides of
yourself.
If you only listen to troubleand prayed up, you'd be like Vin
is like an aggressive dude,like I don't know why he's just
that aggressive.
But if you listen to the wholething, you're like oh, we can
have aggressive moments whencertain things need to be
achieved or points need to bemade, and that's still.
And we could have moments of abit more sad introspection.

(01:53:08):
And then also other moments ofintrospection that are a bit
tainted by doubt and the need toprove yourself, and then
moments of full-blown confidencewhere it's like, wow, in this
moment he felt like he was theshit and that's great because
the energy was captured and so,yeah, I would say one, you would

(01:53:28):
understand me better as anartist.
And two, if we're trying toencapsulate the complexity of
human emotions, you need theentire album for that.

What has the reaction been from your
perspective?

Vin Jay (01:53:47):
And that includes people reaching out to you
saying oh, this is amazingpeople.
You might not expect theresponse online.
Yeah, the response has beengreat.
First and foremost, it's such aPC album meaning Adolescent
Reject is nothing like Troubleright that the feedback I've
been getting.
Some people will hit me up andbe like yo this album is great

(01:54:09):
and I love it and thank you somuch for everything you do.
But because the songs differ somuch from each other, I've
noticed that a lot of themessages are certain songs
resonating really hard withsomeone.
It's more so, like yo, this onesong like I've had it on repeat
for the past two days becausewhat you said here and what you

(01:54:31):
said here resonated with me hard.
And that's another reason Ilike to be very versatile on
albums, because not everyonewill resonate with the same
stuff, whether it's the words Ichoose or the energy I choose.
So I try to like do what theycall paint with broad strokes so
that I can I can touch the mostpeople touch the most people.

You've talked about how going into album mode can be
a bit of a challenge becauseyou get locked in and you have a
project.
You want to get it tocompletion.
It's a journey to go through.
Is it a relief now that you'reon the other side, now that it's
out?

Vin Jay (01:55:08):
My brother.
I hate making albums, so Ican't even.
I would much rather makesingles every day of the week.
It just so happens that I feelthe need to give my core fan
base a body of work.
Sometimes I feel like theydeserve it.
They deserve to be able tolisten to seven songs in a row

(01:55:28):
that they've never heard before,as opposed to one-offs.
One-offs are great for businessand easier on my mental health,
but after a while it starts tofeel like fast food.
It's like okay, one, one, one.
It's just real.
Dopamine hits um and albumscause you to make a balanced
thing.
Right.
If I just did 12 prayed ups,it's like we get it, but it

(01:55:50):
causes me to dive into thatrealm.
The problem with me is I'm sucha perfectionist that for me to
get 13 songs that I deem goodenough to come out is a
nightmare, and for me to approveall the mixes and like all the
features on it, it's a lot.
So is it a relief?
Yes, I am so excited that thealbum is out, but I can't help

(01:56:14):
myself and like giving myselfproblems.
So I have an EP right now.
That is done.
It's five songs.
I'll give you a little bit ofexclusive info right here it's
me and Crypto Wisdom.
It's a collaborative EP, justme and him, and it's five songs
and everything is recorded.
We are in the mixing processnow.
On top of that that needs to bemixed, I am creating my next

(01:56:38):
project.
Currently I'm not sure if it'sgoing to be an album yet,
because I told you how much Ihate it, but I have a solo
project, a full solo, that I'mworking on for after that EP,
because I feel like I've beencollaborating a lot and I would
like to just have a piece ofwork where I can listen back and
the fans that is like, wow,this is where this is what I did
, specifically when I had freereign to turn the song into what

(01:57:01):
I wanted to strictly.

I'm very excited for those two projects.
Thank you for being willing toshare that the.
The piece that I feel like isis worth lingering on is how
special those projects are frommy perspective because and and
you can correct me if I'm wrongI feel like the single world,
like dropping singles, asks fora lot of energy, a lot of
catchiness and songs whereyou're willing to be a bit more

(01:57:27):
vulnerable not that you haven'treleased those, but those are
far less common and I feel likethere's a lot to learn from,
because I feel like, out ofseven days, you probably maybe
give yourself one bad day in aweek where you're not like,
where you're not hard onyourself but like to go through.
That.
To see that side of you issomething extra special in those

(01:57:49):
albums because it's somethingyou don't like to linger on you.
So when you go there, there's areason to go there.
You're not just going there topity yourself or to complain or
to vent or like.
You're going there to resolvesomething which just makes it
more deep and more meaningfulwhen you do go there in an album
.

Vin Jay (01:58:07):
Yeah, that is probably the one thing I like about
albums is not everything needsto be a smash hit, because when
you're releasing singles you aresaying to everybody hey guys,
I'm about to do a thing and youshould come look at this thing
because it's worth yourattention, like so much so that
I had to put it on its ownpedestal right.
So I can't put adolescentreject out as a single because

(01:58:30):
it's not like you need to.
This is gonna blow your mindlike it's just a moment.
It's, it's just a space of uh,of thought.

So, yeah, that is something that I like about
albums is not everything needsto be prayed up or fucking you
know what other trouble the bigsounding ones you know yeah, the
other piece that I really likeabout your albums are that you
like address a topic, like youthink something through and
there's a journey, and likethat's just it couldn't be more

(01:58:59):
clear with the human experiencewhere you just walk through the
journey of like figuring outyourself and having your family
go against you or your friendsgo against you, or like the
world go against you in someregards, and you're pushing
through that and there'ssomething like there's a thesis
to the whole project humanexperience.

Vin Jay (01:59:18):
For me is a extremely special album because it is such
.
It was such a time of quick,quick change.

(01:59:41):
It's really cool to likecapture it and see myself like
morphing in real time in thatmoment.
I was really in between liketwo people in that moment in
time.

Can you tell me what has your family's reaction been
, seeing that they're such acrucial part?
What did it mean to them to seethis all come together?

Vin Jay (02:00:04):
So I think I think it's an uncomfortable topic for my
family Cause, as you know, I I'mpretty open about what I say
and I don't really hold back theway I say it.
So none of them have reallylike approached me when I've
said certain things in in mymusic, I think, um, I've had

(02:00:32):
conversations like with my mom,like like after I put out
breakdown, however many yearsago, she called me because she's
like that was like really dark,you know.
But they're never judgmentalabout what I'm saying because
it's, at the end of the day,it's my perspective, right, the
ultimate truth, and there is noother way.

(02:00:53):
There's no other side to thisstory or how someone else
perceived it.
It's just my perspective andidea on the situation and also,
to an extent, my projections,right, because I could.
I'm telling you what I thinkother people are thinking.
I think other people arethinking.

(02:01:19):
So that says more about me thanit does about anybody else.
So, yeah, I've never really hadany deep conversations with my
family about what I say about mylife and an ecosystem in my
music.
I think we could.
I don't think anyone wants tohave that conversation, though.

Agreed I, and I think brave if they do right,
Like if you're willing to gothere and have those difficult
conversations.
Some of them perhaps don't needto be raised because there's no
, there's nothing to be squeezedout of that rock, but some of
them it's like it's interestingto see, when you present
somebody with your perspective,how they want to respond to that
and to your point.

(02:01:59):
It's your perspective, but it'salways interesting to see how
people respond when confrontedwith with your perspective yeah,
and it's just shit that'sbothering me.

Vin Jay (02:02:07):
You know.
It's not like not, I never sayanyone's doing anything wrong.
I'm saying this is how thisthing makes me feel and I don't
think you can say anything tothat.

Vin, this has been an absolute pleasure.
We've just hit the two hourmark and it's such an honor to
be able to speak with you.
Thank you for sticking aroundfor so long and going through
this album and, as I've said,like I do think you're a prophet
, I do think you do exactly whatI described at the beginning of
Profit Does, of walking peoplehow to think about morality, how
to reach their full potentialand bringing that abundance to

(02:02:40):
people in a time where I feellike you provide that.
You offer so much good adviceand just in speaking with you,
it's clear that you think thesethings through.
Then you go, sit down and youwrite an album and it's just an

(02:03:04):
honor to see you put thattogether, because I think some
people they can speak reallyfast or they can say things
really quickly, but they're notsaying that much and there's so
much depth to every lyric thatwe've gone through today.

Vin Jay (02:03:20):
Thank you.
I appreciate you guys having me.
It's always super fun to diveinto the art because I just make
it and put it out, so when wecan kind of break it down for
everybody, it's always veryexciting.

Exactly Everybody.
Go check out Good Company.
It's an incredible album.
I think every song on there isjust absolutely phenomenal and
there's so many differenttakeaways to have and you really
get to process every type ofemotion when you listen to it.
So thank you for putting in somuch work into creating it and
it's a privilege to connect withyou about it again.

Vin Jay (02:03:46):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
We'll see you next time.

(02:05:16):
You, you, yeah, yeah nah.
This one's like actually crazy,though, but I guess they all
are.

Still climbing the ranks, rhyming with grace.
Never shown signs of restraintwhen trying to be great.
Put my soul into these records.
I'm refining my taste.
My mind is a bank of pure gems,diamond encased.
Look your man's prolific.
I'll ask a critic.
The answer's written in bloodon the plaques and ribbons.
The plan's specific hustle andsurpass my limits.
I live a rockstar lifestyle.
Bands come with it, come on,pursue a couple accolades and

(02:05:46):
then proceed to kill.
I make your favorite rapperchange how they perceive and
skill the money coming in sofast.
Don't gotta read the bills andlabels flashing money at me like
I need a male.
Jesus Guess they didn't knowthat they was dealing with a
genius.
800 racks out of my bedroom.
I'm prestigious.
Never seen this hunger withthis level of achievement.
Look inside the bank.
It ain't a wonder I'm conceited.
Got me a crib.

(02:06:06):
I'm about to get two to fivemore.
When I hustle I win and theynever scrutinize yours.
When a man in the mirror told me, pursue the right cause, I went
from suicidal to the suicidedoors.
Drastic.
I'm increasing the bandwidth,advancing Music as dark as
Marilyn Manson.
It's cancerous.
I was making records at mydad's crib.
The one you hearing now is froma million dollar mansion,
expensive, long as a pen in mypalm.

(02:06:27):
I ain't got no business everworking, no regular job.
Picture me checking the clockpray to replenish the quad.
Never been a little fish typeon the Megalodon.
Homie, you ready or not?
Cause I'm about to make it allclear?
If you better guess me, it'sabout to be a long year.
Oh yeah, ain't no suit and tiebut homie.
I've been in the boss tierNeighbors looking at me like a
bum who don't belong here.
It's only fuel in the flame.

(02:06:49):
I got respect plus power.
Don't confuse it with fame.
Never worry bout another man orwho's in the game, cause I'm a
king.
Y'all are pawns.
We ain't movin' the same.
Gotta climb till I fall.
I survive through it.
All I done swam through theuniverse.
Align with the laws.
Tell them, rise and applaud.
I'm about to get it poppin'.
Sell the boy a business.
I'ma run it like Goggins.
I got this.
All around the world.
They been admiring the GOAT.

(02:07:10):
Yeah, every other line I writeis fire in the grove.
All this paper stacking.
Now we silencing the jokes.
I cannot imagine, whenretirement approach, still, that
shit ain't happening.
Soon I'm 20x my net worth andthen it's back to the booth.
Shit is bigger than the game.
This is my path to improve, andif I'm breathing I don't have
an excuse.
Know what I'm talking about.

Vin Jay (02:07:38):
Know what I'm talking about.
Yeah, I'm talking about.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}205. Vin Jay: How to Break Cycles, Find Purpose & Build Discipline

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.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

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205. Vin Jay: How to Break Cycles, Find Purpose & Build Discipline

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