209. Á'a:líya Warbus: Conservative MLA on Cowichan Tribes, Mass Graves & Reconciliation

Indigenous MLA Á’a:líya Warbus joins Chief Aaron Pete to discuss breaking stereotypes by joining the BC Conservatives, her journey from treaty work to the legislature, navigating the toxic drug crisis, Indigenous land rights, the unmarked graves story, and what’s next for the party and reconciliation in British Columbia.

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Episode Transcript

Á'a:líya Warbus (00:03):
What I grew up seeing and hearing in around my
community was that conservativesdidn't support Indigenous
people.
And that was the only realunderstanding I had.

Aaron Pete (00:13):
There's a preconceived notion that
Indigenous people will vote NDPor liberal.
I imagine you experience a lotof shock and awe from so many
people of like, you're breakingthe mold.
What was that journey like tomake that decision and go down
that path?

Á'a:líya Warbus (00:26):
One of the things I noticed about the NDP,
when I look at purely the facts,the budget, the decisions, when
I think about policy as relatedto open drug use, criminal
activity, harm reduction, whereare we putting our money?
I just think our communitiesare suffering.
Our kids are dying because of atoxic drug crisis, and these

(00:48):
policies are not working.

Aaron Pete (00:50):
Calvin tribes decision adds a feel to the fire
that it's it's everyday BritishColumbians versus indigenous
community.
It comes at a time whereCanadians can't afford a house.
Can you explain the story andwhat it means?

Á'a:líya Warbus (01:02):
That's what they signed on for to settle the
land question.
But now it's our fault.
This is Canada'sresponsibility.
This is BC's responsibility.
Indigenous people are caught upin the fray and the fro of how
people play politics with it,how they decide to frame it
because it's beneficial to them,how they decide to skew.

Aaron Pete (01:22):
MLA Dallas Brody has chosen to leave the
Conservative Party and start herown party and regularly posts
on Twitter now, I would say,views that Indigenous people get
too much support.
I'm wondering if you would mindjust briefly introducing

(01:50):
yourself for people who mightnot be acquainted.

Á'a:líya Warbus (01:53):
Aalia Tilsqui, Hualmuch Tilsqui Talitakwa,
Skokale First Nation, CastaHhomasquim Samath, Skowlitz to
Ailis.
My name is Aalia Warbis.
I'm a Huelmuch person from theStalo territory, specifically
born and raised in Skokale FirstNation.

(02:13):
And my grandparents all comefrom communities around
Coastalish territory.
My grandfather was fromMusqueam.
My grandmother grew up inSumas, Samath.
I mean, I could go into wheretheir parents are from, would be
here all day talking about myfamily tree.
My other grandmother is fromthe community of Scalitz, and my

(02:34):
grandfather uh was from Saales.
Uh my only living grandparent,uh Rena Point Bolton, uh, she
was gone for a long time, livingin Terrace.
She married up there.
Um, she's back now in thevalley.
And yeah, my parents, we wereraised in Skokale First Nation,
where my dad grew up.

Aaron Pete (02:54):
Beautiful.
Are you able to share a bit ofthe work you do?

Á'a:líya Warbus (02:56):
Yeah, for sure.
So I am a member of theLegislative Assembly elected for
Chilliwack called Dislake.
For short, they just say MLA.
And um, yeah, I do a lot ofdifferent work, and it has to do
also with the role that I wasappointed to by our leader, John
Rustad.
I'm part of the conservativecaucus.

(03:18):
Uh, so I'm House Leader as wellfor official opposition.

Aaron Pete (03:22):
It's been a long time since we sat last, and I'm
wondering if you can take usback to the beginning.
Uh, there are rumblings of anelection coming up.
When did you start to ponderentering provincial politics and
what was that early processbefore you had committed to one
party or another?
What was the kind of thingsgoing on that were contributing
to you thinking of enteringpolitics?

Á'a:líya Warbus (03:43):
I remember actually the day that this
conversation came about becausewe were in the midst of getting
communications, reports, uh,progress ready for a meeting
that our chiefs had through thetreaty process in order to
update them on where they wereat with stage five.

(04:07):
So there are a number of stageswhen you're entering into a
treaty process.
Uh, they identify the stages bythe progress that you've made
until eventually you get to adocument that the federal
government, the provincialgovernment, the chiefs, their
communities are all happy withthat outlines your territory,

(04:31):
uh, your different structuresthat you're going to put into
place to govern that territory,land, there's so much technical
material that goes into thesetreaties, these modern-day
treaties now, and that's why ittakes so long.
A lot of it has to do withconsensus as well and
communications, right?
Getting people to the table.

(04:51):
It's a tripartite effort.
And then, of course, because wehave such small community
Indian Act bands as defined bythe Indian Act, uh, there's a
lot of leadership that has tocome together in unity.
So, anyways, that aside, I wasworking for our treaty
association, which was known asSXTA at one time, and then they

(05:12):
moved over to SXG.
So they were trying to move andformalize from Stalla
Hohuelmock Treaty Association,known as a society under the
Society Act of British Columbia,to Stalla Hohuelmock
government.
Self-identifying as agovernment, which they totally
have the right to do underrights that are identified by

(05:33):
Section 35 and recognized by theCrown, is to take on that
responsibility and act as if.
And when you start to do that,then you're imposing a identity
and a system onto the land, ontothe governance of your own
people, and reacting to theprovincial government, the

(05:56):
Canadian government in thatfashion.
So my role as culturalcommunications was a bit of a
dog's breakfast, I'll say itthat way.
It's not the most eloquentterm, but to be able to
communicate what is leadershipdoing to the people, to be able
to communicate their calendarsand what was happening

(06:17):
externally and politically thatmight affect their work to
leadership, to be able to ensurethat all the documents
circulating were standardized,you know, the briefings were
going out, that we had acommunication strategy on social
media through promotionalmaterials, um, what's our target
audience?
What kind of messages do wewant to get out to people and

(06:40):
what kind of information do wewant back for them?
So it was this cog in between areally complicated process
that, in my opinion, our peoplewere not really grasping onto,
nor did they have the interestfor or even the bandwidth to be
able to participate in and havea knowledgeable and informed
two-way conversation about.

(07:01):
So that's a long way of sayingthat I came back to work for my
community because my heart'salways been in that work.
And what I observed as a staffmember, you know, sometimes
changing my hat because I'm acommunity member too, and I have
an invested interest in thework and where it's going to go,
is that we did not have thatdirect line into how does

(07:30):
government make these decisions?
How does government operate?
What happens when governmentdoes something that we as an
indigenous people are impactedby and that we don't agree with?
How are we understanding how tolobby government officials, uh,
be able to make better, faster,more, I would say, fluid

(07:54):
connections with them in orderto get our agenda move forward
as Indigenous communities.
I wasn't seeing that.
I'm not saying that it wasn'thappening on any level or in
maybe even other places andprocesses in and around BC, but
I would say that that was a gapthat I had identified.
And what worried me is that italways felt as though we're at

(08:15):
the table waiting forgovernment.
We're waiting for that approvaland that stamp to say, here's
the process, here's how we'regoing to fulfill the needs of
the process, and this is whenit's going to be up to the
standard of what the governmentof the day says it needs to be.
And getting everybody to thosetables was just as painful as as

(08:41):
potentially even the processitself, which has been going on
for 20 years now.
And I did notice the pieces offraying.
Um there were missteps I wouldsay uh maybe potentially missed
opportunities or or justgrievances that were not being
solved at the leadership level,and the communication was really

(09:04):
starting to dwindle.
And I would say that was on theside of our Indigenous leaders,
and also, you know, like Isaid, that that fluid and
concrete conversation andrelationship that we need with
the both the province and thefederal government.
And so seeing all of that, itstarted to almost spark those

(09:26):
thoughts in my mind of how do weget in there?
You know, how do we getknowledge, direct involvement?
How do we get our perspectivesand voices heard so that
potentially one day thesesystems are not so inaccessible
to us?
And what that looks like, Ihave no idea.
But I had this impetus insideof me of this is what needs to

(09:50):
happen.
And I'd seen other Indigenouspeople move into government, but
also saw how difficult it wasfor them because it comes with a
lot of judgment and it comeswith a lot of weight on your
shoulder as oh, well, you're theindigenous person.
Yeah, if this ever happened toyou, but being the lone
indigenous person in a classroomsometimes, you know, as soon as

(10:12):
you flip the page to thatchapter, we're going to study
Indians.
All the eyes are on you.
And and everybody has everyquestion under the sun.
And you're like, I'm not evenfrom their parries.
I know nothing about teepees.
That's what was in our schoolbooks, right?
When we were introduced, firstintroduced to indigenous um

(10:35):
history or culture teachings inelementary and middle school.
So I started to think about itthen.
It was something that just Icouldn't help it.
It was there.
I had that question of how dowe improve this?
Because it's really nothappening at a rate or a level
that I thought was conducive toseeing a actual finished treaty.

(10:57):
Yeah.
And we we didn't get there.
We didn't cross that finishline.
Uh the office, they decided todisband the process.
Um, I don't know whateverhappened specifically to the
funds that were attached to thework.
Uh, and you know, that meantthat like staff was laid off and
all those things.
But before that happened, youknow, before it basically fell

(11:20):
apart and and those sixcommunities that were left in
the treaty process and StaloNation, in and around Stalo
Nation, um, left the table, itreally did have me thinking
about either civic or provincialpolitics and and that gap.
And I had looked actually tosee, because everyday people, I

(11:40):
think average people, evenmyself included, I wasn't
thinking about who's the MLA forChilliwack.
What party are they from?
Who won the last election?
There are some people whoreally love this stuff and they
follow it, like a football fanfollows the NFL, right?
Here it would be the Great Cup,but um, you know, Americans
like what's that?
But uh I really started tobecome interested, and I saw

(12:04):
that we had two NDPrepresentatives here in Chilwok,
which actually surprised mebecause it's typically a very
conservative um community.
Stronghold, yeah.
Stronghold, yeah.
And uh we've had uh, you know,federal conservatives have been
here since forever and ever.
Mark Stroll and you know,before that it was his dad truck
truck stroll.
And um it it caused me to lookinto it a little bit more.

(12:28):
And I started looking at uhdifferent legislative members
around BC and kind of looking atthe the climate of where
provincial politics were even umacross Canada.
You know, I I knew of Wabcano,uh, but I didn't quite know
about his journey, or you know,he'd risen to being premier and

(12:50):
and those things.
So it really just started tomake that seed of thought grow.
And I had said jokingly to myfriend who I was working with at
the time, I'm like, that's it.
I'm gonna get, you know, I'mgonna be um an MLA or I should
run.
And you just kind of say thesethings, and they're just I don't

(13:11):
know how you where it came fromor how it kind of locked in in
that moment.
Yes, like how to even describehow these things manifest and
then become words that arespoken aloud, but that's kind of
what happened.
And in fact, we looked at itand and you know, the process

(13:33):
and you have to be a part of aparty, and we didn't even know
those things.
And we talked about it atlength, we were kind of googling
for maybe half an hour, and Iand I remember saying to him, I
must be crazy because I wouldnever have the time to fit this
in with everything else I'mdoing.
It just wouldn't be possible.
Why would I ever do that?
And we laughed about it andthen we went home and I was

(13:55):
like, ha ha, I rememberyesterday I was talking about
running for MLA, and he's like,ha ha ha ha, you know, and and
that was that, honestly.
And then um we had a fewcolleagues that were working
with us at the time who had comefrom that world years and years
ago, they had worked withdifferent uh MLAs and ministers

(14:16):
and and they knew a little bitmore than I did.
And I was sort of reflecting onthat story at dinner and
saying, yeah, like, oh, Ithought about running, or you
know, maybe maybe that's justwhat I need to do.
Because again, I had thisfrustration about the process,
and it just felt like we weren'tgetting there.
We were stuck in mud, and I andI couldn't quite figure out,

(14:39):
you know, why was thecommunication between the
different parties not working?
Where are we lacking?
Are there better processes thatexist?
Now people are getting intoreconciliation agreements or um
additions to reserve process,you know, and all of this is I
think positive on a very microlevel of these small indigenous

(15:01):
bands with a few hundred peopleapiece, because they're able to
do it in-house.
It's something they canincrementally kind of crank up
and and see their community growand the benefits for just them.
But to me, if we're gonna bedoing reconciliations, additions
reserve, and all these kind ofdeals, even the Height of Land

(15:22):
Title deal across BC for all theover 200 Indian Act bands,
we're gonna see these processesdrag on for a long, long time,
just like we've seen the courtcases drag on for a long, long
time.
And we don't have that realresolve in in in our hands that
says, okay, this is theboundaries we're gonna have by

(15:43):
when.
And so that people can move onfrom this land question because
it's becoming quite contentious.
So, anyways, I had passivelysaid to one of my colleagues uh
about running, and he he lookedat me and he actually said, Are
you serious about that?
And I said, half serious.
I mean, I just think it's kindof time and we really need this

(16:04):
right now, and and maybe thatlevel of understanding would be
something that we could allbenefit from.
And and he actually startedtexting on his phone, and I
didn't quite understand, and wejust kept eating dinner and
talking shop and all these kindsof things.
And um, little did I know wasthat he had a connection to at

(16:25):
the time uh John Rustad's chiefof staff.

Aaron Pete (16:28):
Wow.

Á'a:líya Warbus (16:29):
Yeah.
And um had texted him to say,hey, have you guys filled
Chilbot Cultist Lake and andstarted having these
conversations and said, Wouldyou want to meet John Rustad?
And I said, Who?
Right?
At that time, you know, um, alot of people didn't know who
John was, right?
And that he was leading thischarge of of revamping the

(16:50):
Conservative Party.
And he even told me the party,and I laughed, like, yeah,
right.
Because to me, I had thesepre-conceived notions about what
I grew up to understandconservatives as.
And every group, I think, kindof has their uh standard uh

(17:11):
opinion and relationship withone party or another that have
historically been um the same.
Yeah.
You know, and and to me, what Igrew up seeing and hearing in
and around my community was thatconservatives didn't support
Indigenous people.
And that was the only realunderstanding I had.

(17:34):
Uh and like I said, I don'tthink that we as Indigenous
people feel involved or orcalled to uh follow politics
outside of our communities.
And so I said I would take themeeting, but the entire time
before the meeting, it was likemy gut and my head and my heart

(17:55):
was in conflict of uh what ifand then what, right?
Because I didn't really thinkthat he would even approve me as
a candidate.
I was going there to kind ofchallenge some of the things I
read in his platform, and then Ididn't think that I'd actually
accept and run.
And then I didn't even thinkthat I was going to win.

(18:16):
I wasn't sure, right?
Because again, Chilwak has uhtraditionally been a
conservative stronghold, but alot of times when you live in um
minority or um you're verydifferent from status quo,
that's been a difficult journeyin a in a smaller community that

(18:39):
has very traditional values.
And so I took the meeting andtalked with John, and when I did
challenge him on things that Ithought as I read them didn't
make sense on paper, we wereable to have conducive
conversation.
And that's honestly all that Ireally ask of anyone that I'm

(19:00):
gonna work with.
Let's have a conversation aboutit.
And we may not land in theexact same place, but if we can
continue a conversation, thenthat's the important thing.
And we're actually gonna beopen to one another.
That was my first exposure andand understanding of who John
is, what his values are, and andthe way that he communicates
and he works.

(19:20):
And so from that meeting, uh,there was a good rapport, I
think, built off of that andwanting to green light me as a
candidate, but I needed toaccept.
And of course, that meant Ineeded to talk to my husband.
I needed to talk to mychildren, I need to talk to my

(19:40):
parents, um, you know, mysupport system of people who
know me and can help me to makethe decision, yeah, process the
information, make the decisionthat's going to be best for me.

Aaron Pete (19:57):
Because there's no certainty, right?
Yeah, can you quickly just ask?
Yeah.
And so I interviewed all of theleaders, and I was most nervous
to interview uh John Rustad.
And the main reason for that isbecause the what is said about
him online and how he appearswhen you read articles about him
is not necess is often not theperson you're sitting down with

(20:20):
and speaking with, right?
It's not a uh perfect matchingof the person.
So I was nervous because it waslike, if he believes everything
that I'm reading on the walrusand all these articles, then
we're gonna be very combative.
But if I go in assuming thesearticles are the case, then I I
may be speaking with acaricature and I may come across
as a bad interviewer becauseI'm like, well, you believe

(20:42):
this, right?
And he's like, No, that wasjust some article that was
written about it.
I don't actually so like youcan come across antagonistic if
you lean too much on what wasread.
And so when I sat down withhim, I was like, I don't know
who I'm speaking to.
Am I speaking to this person oris he a different person than
who I'm reading about?
Well, I'm just curious aboutthe experience of going in.
You have these emotions, youhave this preconceived notion.

(21:03):
That's very much how I wentinto interviewing him.
And so I'm just curious, whatwas that kind of journey through
the conversation where you'relike, whoa, like I but I read
this thing and and it seems soextreme, and then you're you're
being reasonable, like it'salmost like uh the the veil
comes off and you're speakingwith a real person, and I'm just
curious as to what thatinteraction was like.

Á'a:líya Warbus (21:22):
Yeah, it definitely was probably similar
to the interaction and theexperience that you had, I would
say, because for me, I go inarmored up, and I think
honestly, so many of our peopledo that.
Yeah.
We come in thinking and feeling,well, you don't like me and you

(21:44):
don't want me to succeed.
And you know, we put alreadylike a negative caricature onto
ourselves that is going tobattle this person.
But I actually found John to bevery disarming and uh open and
willing to hear me.
You know, he didn't speak downto me like, oh yeah, that's

(22:05):
cute, you don't know.
He wasn't, he wasn't uh um whatis patronizing, arrogant or
patronizing towards me, and hewas more, you know, open and
willing to listen.
And and you could see his hisgears turning when I would talk,
and and and he really listened,I would say too.

(22:27):
He's an active listener aswell.
And then he offers his hispoint of view.
And again, like I said, Iwasn't okay 100% every single
thing that you've said.
There were things that Ithought, mm, yeah, I I have to
know more about that, and beforeI can really engage in in a
conversation, this is theinformation you've gathered and

(22:47):
what your opinion is on this.
Because we talked about energy,we talked about uh SOGI, we
talked about land title andDRIPA, you know, and um the 435
agreements that he had that heaccomplished as the Minister of
Indigenous RelationsReconciliation.
We uh we covered off some broadareas, including the drug
crisis, including, you know,crime rate and and mental health

(23:11):
and things like that.
And I was able to come awaywith my own conclusion.
But it wasn't solely based onthe issues, it was about the
interaction and the mutualrespect that I felt and the
communication flow.
And the thing I have to say,and I think I've said it in
other other interviews, and I'mnot totally sure, is one of the

(23:33):
things I've struggled with isbeing a leader in our own
communities.
I don't know why.
Maybe it's one of those thingswhere the the the comfort and
the familiarity at home, we haveidentities that we wear, and
people know us, and then theyknow us from that.
And it's almost as if that is ahindrance to being able to

(23:56):
authentically step into a role.
And I just never felt thatlevel of peer, peer-to-peer
relation and and support, andthat I was heard when I would
have genuine questions,concerns, um, you know, points
of view that I was bringingforward about process in terms

(24:18):
of um, you know, if ourleadership is going to make this
decision, what does that meanfor uh, you know, an outcome
around health for our people?
What is and then what?
You know, if we're going towalk away from treaty and and
then we're going to individuallygo down these other paths, then

(24:41):
what for kids who are from twodifferent two to three different
families and bands, and theyactually have the cross-section
of all of them, or there's agood program over here, but it's
free for band members, but notfor, you know, the families and
and band that's right next doorto it.
You know, I had real concernsand questions around government
structures and governancedecisions that I felt were

(25:03):
short-sighted.
But I didn't feel hurt, Ididn't feel supported in those
questions or ideas.
I felt very like, oh, that's socute.
Don't worry, we got it.
And I just that energy reallyturned me off wanting to be
involved with our communities.
And hey, is a is a provincialgovernment or process perfect?

(25:23):
It's a colonial process, it'sbased off of, you know, uh
British, uh British system thatwas inherited here.
No.
But when you feel that arelationship is going to be
conducive to work actuallymoving forward, then yes, me
personally, I'm going to be moreinclined to invest and put my

(25:46):
time into that than I am goingto be where somewhere where I
actually don't feel like I'mbeing heard or supported as a
community member would be.

Aaron Pete (25:56):
Can I ask then, what was the response when you go
you mentioned you spoke to yourfamily and your friends about
this this may be the path?
Was there any consideration ordid you meet with the NDP or
other parties to kind of go, doI do I want to look somewhere
else?
Is this the right relationship?
And then to your point, there'san overwhelming feeling in so

(26:17):
many First Nation communitiesthat it's liberal or NDP.
And I really like the strugglethat you went through just in
terms of understanding that it'sthe same challenge I saw.
I often try and weigh theamount that Justin Trudeau spent
as prime minister and how theamount of spending causes
inflation.
And who does inflation impact?
People on fixed incomes, whoare on fixed incomes, many

(26:41):
indigenous communities.
And so the amount of investmenthe did versus the cost of
inflation on those communities,it uh you will never know the
exact amount of benefit versuscost for people who are just
trying to buy milk at thegrocery store.
And I do think some partiesthink they are more connected to
Indigenous communities anddon't always go and earn those

(27:03):
votes and learn about thosecommunities and build those
relationships to the sameextent.
And so there's a preconceivednotion that that Indigenous
people will vote NDP or liberalautomatically.
And your decision to do thatreally just, I think I imagine
you experienced a lot of shockand awe from so many people of
like you're breaking the mold.
And so I'm just curious, whatwas that journey like to make

(27:26):
that decision and go down thatpath?

Á'a:líya Warbus (27:28):
Mm-hmm.
I did experience a lot ofinternal question along the way
to saying yes to door knockingto wearing that conservative
shirt, honestly, you know, andand asking my own family members

(27:49):
to come and door knock withwith me.
Uh it it was almost like a um amental and emotional struggle
day to day.
And it had to do with how muchdo I let in that people are
going to say to me, challenge meon, and want to eat up my time

(28:12):
and energy having an online, ona comment thread argument back
and forth about the history ofland title and rights, or what
it means to, you know, stand upfor a minority group, or or what
are the real facts about this,or this person who's in your

(28:34):
party said this.
And so what do you have to sayfor that?
Really actually learning how tonavigate being a public figure.
What do you spend your time on,and what do you let go of?
Well, guess what?
There's this much time.
Everybody's got the same amountevery single day.
Half of it you need to sleep.

(28:55):
Half, like half of the otherhalf goes to your children, your
family, your self-care, allthose things.
And then you've got this littlechunk left for work and focus
and where are you gonna put yourattention, right?
And for me, I really had tostart to make those separations
from what people are gonna sayversus what am I gonna do?

(29:16):
Am I gonna respond to everynegative comment or person who
thinks I'm doing the wrong thingor doesn't understand the
intricacies of how politics areevolving and shifting right now
in BC in 2025?
You know, what what do partylabels really mean?
If uh conservatives are gonna cclaim the space of everything
right of center.

(29:37):
Um where is the conservative umplatform and and movement right
now in in Canada?
I can't speak for otherprovinces or even federally, but
answering that question wassomething I get to be a part of.
I get to make those goalpostsmove.
And one of the things I noticedabout the NDP, because Because

(30:00):
you brought that up for myself,is that as a young person, and
even like throughout being anactivist for land rights, and
you know, people will try to putyou in a hole and say, Oh, at
one time you fought for this orthat.
Um, a lot of times it's reallyjust about voice.
The issue is this is thissecondary uh piece for any one

(30:24):
fight.
And and that includes themarches that we did and the
speeches I've made in all kindsof different venues.
Um but when I look at purelythe facts, the budget, the
decisions, and I think you'reetching on this when you're
talking about Trudeau and histime as prime minister.

(30:44):
Um, what's the benefit for BC?
What am I actually seeing withmy own two eyes and in my
community that I live in?
When I looked at those factsand then the policies and and
the ideology of the NDP, it it'snot that I couldn't see my
heart fitting there, you know,because they're very open and

(31:08):
and care about, you know, socialissues and um there really is
like an acceptance value that'svery high.
But when I think about policyas related to open drug use,
criminal activity, harmreduction, where are we putting
our money?
To me, I just think ourcommunities are suffering, our

(31:32):
kids are dying because of atoxic drug drug crisis.
We're the ones that run themajority of those negative
statistics.
We're the ones that are bearingour nieces, our nephews, our
brothers, our aunties, right?
Our uncles.
And these policies are notworking.

unknown (31:51):
Yeah.

Á'a:líya Warbus (31:52):
And that was one of the main turning points
for me.
Like I said, you're never gonnaagree 100%.
The NDP don't agree withintheir caucus 100%, right?
You're always gonna deal with aspectrum of values and beliefs.
But when it came to core issuesand even things like resource
development, I I had a lot oflearning to do.

(32:12):
And I think the average person,again, like any issue, doesn't
take the time to reallyunderstand what is the standard
of environmental assessment,what is the standard of
environmental impact.
Are there different nationsaround BC that want different
things?
We cannot assume that everysingle nation is opposed to
development, pipelines, um, LNG.

(32:35):
They are autonomous and theyget to decide what projects will
or will not go ahead.
And there's so many layers tothat decision, including the
process, the you know, theoverlaps, all those kinds of
things that could be fixed.
And what happens is we justapply one label and one sticker
to it.
And we say, oh, this is whatall Indigenous people think and

(32:57):
feel.
It's not, right?
We have diverse educationlevels, belief systems, needs
economically, otherwise, allacross the whole spectrum.
And so to think that, oh, weall belong in this one box of
one party is fairly outdated anddoesn't give the benefit that,
hey, we're evolving as acommunity too.

Aaron Pete (33:18):
Because ultimately you're representing your
community, right?
Despite the party lines, youstill are supposed to bring the
voice of your constituentsforward.
When you decided to put yourname forward for this party, it
wasn't where it is today.
It was in a very, verydifferent position.
Did you see the writing on thewall in regards to the

(33:40):
Conservative Party?
Did you see the opportunitywhere the BC United Party could
collapse and then theconservatives would take over?
That just seems like such ashocking idea.
And just in sitting down withKevin Falcon, I mean, we had him
on this show promise that hewould never entertain such an
idea.
Like, gave that reassurance.

(34:01):
And then when we released theepisode, we released it two days
before he ended up folding theparty down.
Oh wow.
And so just the like I couldhave never guessed that that was
going to be the outcome.
So what was that process todecide to commit to that party?
But also, did you know thenwhere you could end up and that
this would all end up where itdid?

Á'a:líya Warbus (34:21):
I did have people that were advising me and
who were looking at the largertrend of where BC was at and
where people's frustration was.
And people who are steeped intothe world of politics, they do
have predictions, but it's likea weather person.

(34:42):
You go, oh, it's you know, 20%rain and then it pours, right?
So we did have a mark that wewere aiming for.
I did look into who else was inand joining the party before I
made my final decision.
At that point, we did knowthere were talks for other BCU

(35:05):
potential movement laterally,but all of that was under wraps,
right?
And so when I looked at otherpeople who were running, that
also gave me the boost ofconfidence to know that I had
allyship within the party.
Um, people that I knew basedoff of the work and the advocacy
that they did or their profile,that we were of a like mind and

(35:27):
and potentially even backgroundor understanding and and life
experience that there was goingto be synergy, right?
But yeah, uh it there werepredictions, but nothing
certain.
And so we did feel that we evenhad a shot at at government

(35:47):
potentially.
But that was before obviouslyall the opposition research came
out from the NDP.
They had dug deep on a lot ofdifferent people that had run.
And as you said, people look atan article or a headline and
they take that as someone'spersonality, right?
They they they just do that ishow media works, that's how

(36:07):
public perception works, and ina lot of ways, that's the only
access we have for informationfor someone.
And so that is what we make ourdecision on.
We go, well, they said thisabout this group of people.
They must be evil, they must bebad, but people are complex.
Like, hasn't anyone's grandpaever said something off-colored?
Well, guess what?
He didn't have cameras andreporters in his face to make

(36:29):
that live forever.
And now with things likeTwitter, which became X, and uh,
you know, the ability forpeople to just willy-nilly put
their thoughts out there thatcan be captured by someone
forever.
Um, we also had a lot ofstumbling blocks, I would say,
where there's a lack of uhawareness or discipline for
people having times wherethey've been rightly frustrated.

(36:54):
And how they express that and,you know, maybe how that gets
captured and then resurfacelater on is going to affect them
and discredit them.
But by approximation andproximity, it's going to affect
me as well.
And that was one of the thingsthat I struggled with with

(37:15):
people posing a question to me.
Well, they said this, so whatdo you think about that?
And we want your opinion rightnow.
And in the beginning, I justfelt as though I had to give
whatever anybody asked of me tothem.
Yeah.
And you quickly learn thatthat's actually not true.
You know, as people, we get topick and choose what
conversations we want to be apart of, uh, what questions and

(37:38):
and demands actually require usto give our time to.
And I was able to begin, andthis is a big learning journey
for me personally, uh, to be alot more autonomous, a lot more,
you know, steep with my myboundaries and my protections

(37:59):
that I have around me, andrealizing that not every
question deserves a response,especially when someone is
coming at you with a avolatility and a preconceived
notion and and a certain, youknow, negativity towards you.

Aaron Pete (38:14):
To hurt you or to hurt another person using you.

Á'a:líya Warbus (38:17):
Yeah, and whether that comes from fear,
whatever, all those things,that's that's them, right?
That's that's their reality.
But that doesn't mean that Ihave to jump up and defend
myself every single time that Ihave to like argue till the
bloody knuckle stage for everysingle thing and they call those
like hills to die on, right?
Um, and I I just learned how tovery quickly have discipline

(38:39):
for, you know, what issues,what's my stance?
I've made that very clear.
You need to ask that personabout when they said that thing
at that time, but this is ourstance.
This is where the party sits onthat issue.
No, we will not do this.
It's federal.
You know, you very quicklylearn what your lane is and how
to stay in it.
And that's that's the that'sthe discipline of being a

(39:00):
politician, of being able toknow where you can affect change
and where can you not?
And all of those areas likehave nots.
You learn it's a federal thing,you learn that that's a case
law thing that will neverchange, you learn that that's
something that the party willnever take on.
And and that's what you sayabout those things.

(39:21):
You don't have to get intothese philosophical woes and
what-ifs and no, you know, withpeople that just want to take a
piece of you, like that is theirmain goal, and a lot of times
they're elevating themselves andusing my platform to do it.
And I started to learn how tojust not pay attention to that.

Aaron Pete (39:39):
Aaron Powell Can I ask about that?
And you can choose not toanswer, but there are things
that elevate to something whereyou do need to respond, and it's
trying to find that balance.
And there were voices in theConservative Party that were, I
feel like, probably very faraway from where you were, and
that impacts your your howpeople perceive you because

(40:00):
you're under the same umbrella.
Yeah.
And there's a balance between,well, like we're all allowed to
disagree, where MLA Dallas Brodyhas choose chosen to leave the
Conservative Party and start herown party, and regularly posts
on Twitter now, I would say,views that Indigenous people get
too much support, that we'regetting too much from the

(40:20):
provincial and federalgovernment.
So, how how how did younavigate that?
Because that was that becamekind of a public challenge that
you you were placed under.
And it I imagine that wasn't anideal position for you to want
to be in.
You weren't seeking out thatchallenge.
I'm just wondering how youprocessed that and other perhaps
conservative voices that werevery far away from you on truth

(40:44):
and reconciliation, indigenousissues, and indigenous
priorities.

Á'a:líya Warbus (40:48):
I always take it back to my purpose, um, my
why, for why am I there?
And that's actually one of thereasons.

unknown (41:00):
Yeah.

Á'a:líya Warbus (41:01):
It is that conversation that we've not been
wanting to have.
And that actually turns us awayfrom being involved or being in
an uncomfortable space andfeeling as though we are
targeted in some way.
And there's a lot ofunderstanding to be gained about
why, from their perspective,are they saying and doing those

(41:25):
things as well.
And again, not saying that I'mgoing to engage in every single
fact or fight or opinion or, youknow, just like post that's
going to take my energy or takethe wind out of my sails.
But I return to the fact thatwe need to be there to weather

(41:48):
those things, those thosestorms, those uh misconceptions
ourselves.
Because the further away thatwe are from the conversation and
we may be doing excellent work,and I think a lot of leaders
like you are doing amazing workin our communities.
You know, before the podcast,we were talking about the
housing and and you know,transference of knowledge and
all those things.

(42:09):
But we need to be in thoserooms to start to kill those
conversations and not kill themwith you know hate and
negativity, but with knowledgeand kindness and patience,
right?

(42:29):
Because I'm not there to changeanyone.
I I truly am just enteringthese spaces as myself.
I'm bringing my whole self,culture, beads, earrings, you
know, trauma and all, right?
And when there's reallysomething that I feel needs my
voice and that I'm gonna standfirm on, then I'm going to

(42:53):
fight.
But there's been so many thingsthat I thought would meet that
threshold that that actuallyhaven't.
Because it becomes what powerdo they have?
What truth are they reallyspeaking?
Who are they influencing?
What you know, what are theyactually going to do about it?
And the answer a lot of timesis no one, nothing, nowhere.

(43:15):
And it's not my job to goaround and educate people who
are closed off to progressingreconciliation forward.
It's my job to represent myconstituents, to be the house
leader for the officialopposition, to influence policy
conversation when and where Ican, and to remember that I play
such a tiny, tiny role in thelarger provincial conversation

(43:39):
of, you know, legislativeprocess and laws and debates.
And in my community, I get togo around and authentically be
me and help an everyday personwho has disabilities, who has
trouble navigating thehealthcare system, who's um
facing and strugglinghomelessness, who's looking for

(44:00):
their child, who doesn't haveenough money this month, who
needs advocacy for a healthcarecenter.
The list goes on and on and onand on.
And so when I go back to myfocus and I'm able to
emotionally detach from thingsthat do make me feel angry,
small, you know, attacked, orthat that feels maybe this is a

(44:22):
racial profile or an assumption,I really just have to return
back to my strengths and my whyand my purpose.
And that is how I stay out ofthe shit.

Aaron Pete (44:32):
There's one issue that has really, I think,
impacted indigenous communities,and that's this unmarked grave
story.
And I did an hour breakdowngoing through the full history
of Indian residential schools,all of the reports uh that
showed the horrible livingconditions of those schools, the
3,200 children that did die atthose schools, it's undisputed.

(44:55):
But this unmarked grave story,I feel like really complicated
our relationship with Canadians.
Um, and that's what I tried tohonor because the from
everything that I understand, uhuh De Kemloops found 215
anomalies, uh, grounddisturbances using ground
penetrating radar.

(45:16):
Their argument is that theyhave survivor testimony that say
that there were children buriedthere, um, and that this ground
penetrating radar goes tosupport that.
Conservatives like MLA DallasBrody, Francis Widdowson, Nigel
Bagar, Candace Malcolm,individuals I've interviewed,
argue that's not evidence of 215lost children.

(45:37):
That that is something worthlooking into, but it does not
amount to the claim the CI CBCmade that 215 children died in
that apple orchard.
And in order to make thatclaim, you need more evidence.
To me, I view that as aninstitutional failure of the
media to properly report thatstory from the start, because

(45:57):
then that brought in $246million worth of federal funding
for more research.
It brought in the National Dayof Truth and Reconciliation,
which I think is a good thing.
Um, and it brought in a largerconversation, which I think was
a reckoning we needed to have.
But it was potentially, wedon't know until they excavate,
built on shaky grounds.
And people who raise, hey, wedon't that we don't have proof

(46:21):
of 215 lost children are calledIndian residential school
deniers.
And the challenge with thatterm is that they're not denying
the history of residentialschools, the 3,200 confirmed
lost children.
They're questioning a veryrecent story from 2021.
And uh we've I've looked intoSean Carleton who uh termed the

(46:44):
coins the term Indianresidential school denier, and
it's not even disputed that thatdoes not mean that they deny
any of that history.
And so to me, that was apolitical move by Mr.
Carlton to use that terminologyto denounce people and go,
you're a residential schooldenier.
And anybody who hears that isgonna go, oh my god, how could
you deny such an atrocity?
Like that's that's sickening.

(47:05):
You're a bad person.
But if you are just asking,well, we haven't excavated, that
seems not unreasonable.
And I think people who want toraise that, like MLA Dallas,
Brody, Francis Woodison, shoulddo so understanding the full
history of residential schoolsand the um the abuser who was at
Tecem Loops, who actually didharm children and rape children

(47:27):
at that school, who did go tojail for that.
Like we have to put that allinto the full context that
exists.
But it feels, and and I'd I'dlike your opinion on this, it
feels like that that story isweighing the reconciliation
conversation down in asignificant way.
Federally, we didn't hearreconciliation didn't break the
top five issues.
It was the economy, it washousing, it was the Trump

(47:49):
tariffs, it was all otherthings, but reconciliation was
Trudeau's priority.
It didn't end up being MarkCarney's priority, and it was
not the same conversationprovincially that it was
previously.
And so, how do you interactwith that story?

Á'a:líya Warbus (48:04):
Well, when I hear you break it down in that
way, I'm very grateful, first ofall, because again, I think
someone like you, with yourbackground in schooling, your
level of uh communication andopenness, it allows for you to

(48:25):
take a look at the whole pictureand say, this is what this
person is doing, that is theirintention with that, and this is
where their belief comes from,right?
So you're actually breakingdown not just preconceived
notions, but what's behind thatand the many layers.

(48:46):
My big question, it comes downto being very, very simple, and
that is why.
And you can never truly getsomeone to answer that question.

unknown (48:58):
Yeah.

Á'a:líya Warbus (48:58):
And we don't even know if they've asked
themselves that.
And the issue with going on adeep dive down all of these um
rabbit holes of what actuallyhappened in this instance with

(49:22):
these two hundred and fifteenanomalies and poking holes into
the residential schoolnarrative, uh you can call it a
pursuit of truth, but quitehonestly, is that the best use
of an elected person's time?
I know how busy I am as an MLAhere in Chillawot Cultist Lake.

(49:47):
I know what my constituentsexpect of me.
And if I'm spending all of mytime, that's not even that was
not even her critic role.
We have a critic for that filefor a reason.
But if that is becomes yourmain narrative and your passion,
and then you start to gain afollowing and I would say almost

(50:10):
like a cult sort of um, youknow, explosion and in your
identity, and you become knownto be this um indigenous
narrative witch hunter.
Um, it just kind of begs thequestion of why?
Why is that the top issue toyou?
Why are you doing that?

(50:31):
Why has that become yourpassion and almost in a lot of
ways your identity when we havehomelessness, health care on the
brink of collapse, the largestdeficit BC's ever seen, food
bank lineups beyondcomprehension, you know,
children in care, incarcerationsare up, swinging door on crime,

(50:53):
you know, people that aresuffering and struggling.
We still have the higheststatistics in all of those
categories.
Why?
Because of all the reasons yousaid, because of things that
people did spend money on to getreal reports about, and the
fact that many of our childrendidn't return home.
I have a five-year-olddaughter, and the reality of

(51:15):
that is when I look at her, somedays I have to hold back tears
because I think about somebodycoming to my door and saying,
No, she's coming with us.
We're gonna cut her hair, we'regonna strap her, hit her,
punish her, lock her in a room,starve her.
And also, she might not comeback.

(51:36):
And you're just gonna have todeal with that, otherwise you'll
be arrested.
That's our fucking reality.
I buried two of my nieces andnephews.
One killed himself by train,the other, he was very smart.
He was in sciences at UFE.
He killed himself by usinghelium because he knew that was

(52:00):
the easiest way to die.
That was my brother's kids.
My other niece drug overdose.
My aunt drug overdose, my otheraunt drug overdose.
Young man stepped in front of atrain.
Our friend that worked over atSquala train just last month.
That's our reality.
So the fact that somebody wantsto and feels it's necessary

(52:27):
that they're going to police thegovernment on how much money
indigenous people get or don'tget, based on the interpretation
of a word that hasn't been allthe way discovered yet, and not
giving the band and the peoplein that community time to grieve
and process the way that theydeserve.
You know, Canvas is one of themost successful bands, business

(52:50):
case studies in all of BritishColumbia.
They've made a lot of money ontheir own.
Has anybody crawled into theirbooks and found out how, when,
or why, where their investmentslie?
No.
But on a surface level, it begsthe question of why.
And we'll never get a trueanswer out of someone like that.

(53:11):
Because they're gonna say, Oh,we're holding accountable.
We want the truth.
Everyone deserves, you know.
But really, why?
Look inside yourself, lookinside of your heart and be
honest.
Why is that your main goal andpurpose in life and and and
thing that you strive for?

(53:32):
Because you want reconciliationto go backwards.
You want the average Canadianto feel less bad.
You want them to see theresidential schools as mostly
good for indigenous people.
Look what did Tim Thielman sayin that one post?
We gave you the light bulb.
Well, guess what?

(53:53):
We didn't ask for any of that.
We didn't ask to be ripped awayfrom our families.
We didn't ask for people in ourcommunity to be steeped in
addictions.
We didn't ask for smallpox,thank you.
We didn't ask for 95% of ourpeople to die.
People say, Oh, you're only 3%of the province.
Yeah, do you know why?
Because 95% of our people died.

(54:16):
Look around you.
That's nine people standingaround you right now.
Right?

Aaron Pete (54:21):
Yeah.

Á'a:líya Warbus (54:22):
It's complicated.
It has layers, but people arenever gonna understand the pain
and the trauma and the loss andthe fight like you and I do.

Aaron Pete (54:35):
And I like that because one of the pieces that
you see in economicallysuccessful times is we're able
to have complex conversations.
But once you drop into a faminementality, a zero-sum thinking,
when Canadians can't put foodin their fridge or heat their
home because of a carbon tax orall of these different issues,

(54:56):
they can't have thosecomplicated conversations on how
do we take care of theenvironment, regardless of what
your position is on climatechange initiatives and funding
for uh clean energy products.
We all agree we shouldn'tpollute our rivers, we shouldn't
destroy our forests, we shouldkeep our ecosystems and these
things uh fresh and clean andappropriate.

(55:17):
But you can't have thoseconversations when you can't
heat your home because peoplearen't just they're just not
able to sit at that table.
And a lot of the time it'swhere can we get to?
And I feel like part of thereason these conversations are
starting to happen is because weneed a villain.
And Donald Trump makes atremendous villain, and this
individual, uh Dallas Brody andothers, see indigenous

(55:39):
communities as being atremendous villain to their
story because it explains, well,you can't have food in your
fridge because we're giving allthe money over here.
And that's the real problem.
If we stop giving the moneyover here, we'll have a great
healthcare system.
And no disrespect, we'respending a lot of money on
healthcare, and our healthcareoutcomes are not top-notch.
And just giving more money topeople who are.

(56:00):
I mean, one report about a yearago that I asked uh Premier Eve
about was that we're payingsome of these people $300,000 a
year, and we've got 11 uh healthdirectors, and Alberta has like
two, and they're making half ofwhat they are in BC.
And so, like, where are wespending the money?
Seems like a more productiveconversation on the whole budget
than one group of people.

(56:22):
And these people have beendisadvantaged, and so I think we
still have control of theconversation in the sense of
like most Canadians.
Uh, a poll came out that foundmost Canadians are still very
sympathetic, um, but that thisconversation is having an
impact.
The next one I wanted to askabout is the Cowitan tribes
decision, which has recentlycome out, which again, I feel

(56:44):
like adds feel to the fire thatit's it's everyday British
Columbians versus indigenouscommunities, and that's
continues to be, seems to be theframing of it.
And I feel bad because I thinkI imagine these questions come
more to you than all of yourcolleagues, but it's it's in
part because you have a deeperunderstanding of how complicated

(57:04):
this conversation is.
But I do feel like again, thatthat that decision comes in at
perhaps the worst political timeto have such a conversation
about land rights when peoplecan't afford a house, and then
there's this decision coming outthat's I think being
misunderstood.
It's gonna be appealed, it'sgonna be a long process no
matter how you cut it.
But it comes at a time whereCanadians can't afford a house,

(57:26):
and now it's like, well, even ifyou own your house, this the
narrative is well, then maybeindigenous communities will be
coming for your house afterthat.
So can you tell me about thatstory and just maybe the weight
that falls onto your shouldersin regards to when stories like
that come out?
I imagine everybody's callingyou.
Can you explain the story andand and what it means?

Á'a:líya Warbus (57:45):
Yeah, for sure.
And I go back to that analogy,right, of the lone indigenous
person in a classroom.
And I understood that therewould be a lot of that pressure
put onto my shoulders cominginto it.
How much pressure by whatmeasure is is is alarming,
right?
And and that all came to lightwith uh, you know, Dallas taking

(58:07):
such a strong position on onwhat she did with the 215 at
that time.
And I had to look into that aswell.
I had to go back and read uh,you know, reports and and the
TRC and do all the same thingsthat you did to make sure that I
was really steeped in in thereality of the situation before
even offering an opinion.
Um but when we talk aboutthings like cowichan, there are

(58:30):
layers.
There's a federal layer,there's a provincial layer,
there's the indigenous toindigenous relation layer,
cowchan and musqueam, and thenthere's a civic layer, and then
now we have this privateproperty fee simple layer,
right?
And the fact is for me that BChas sewn its own complicated

(58:55):
garden, and now it's right forpicking.
The land question's been aroundfor a long, long time.
Yeah.
Right?
Since Royal Proclamation.
And when indigenous people wereput onto reserves, over 200 of
them, and had circles drawnessentially around where they
were at that time.

(59:15):
Many people were harvesting or,you know, fishing or at one
part of their territoryseasonally, and said, Hey,
you're gonna be stuck here.
We're gonna take your kids, youcan't leave, you can't get an
education, you can't becomemilitary, because then you lose
your status.
And uh we'll be back to settlethis and sign treaties with you,

(59:37):
and and that's the promise thatwas made.
Not by us, yeah, by the Crown,and that was inherited to to
British Columbia and and Canada,you know, when British Columbia
became a part of Confederation.
That's what they signed on forwas to settle the land question.
But now it's our fault.

(59:58):
This is this is Canada'sresponsibility.
This is BC's responsibility.
Indigenous people are caught upin the fray and the fro of how
people play politics with it,how they decide to frame it
because it's beneficial to them,how they decide to skew the
actual potential outcome ofsomething that hasn't happened

(01:00:21):
yet.
Right.
We all know that case lawexists because it sets a
precedent that can then befollowed.
And indigenous land rights andtitle have always fallen under
section 35 of the Constitution,thank goodness for the foresight

(01:00:41):
of our leaders back then, youknow, when they went on that
train right across Canada tofight for that.
Otherwise, we wouldn't even behaving this conversation today.
But we stand on a constitutionthat is homemade in Canada, that
actually cannot be changed, andcase law that has set

(01:01:03):
precedence that's out of yourhands and my hands and every
politician that decides tocomment on it at the moment.
The framing is all aboutgetting the media jacked up on a
story that's exciting that theycan put out, that's gonna get a
lot of clicks and comments andinteraction, and that's gonna
get people yelling at the, youknow, screen and phone and TV,

(01:01:26):
right?
Because it carries it forlonger than a 24-hour news
cycle.
Because then the next bigthing's gonna happen, everyone's
gonna forget.
And they know that it needs tobe somewhat exciting and
alarming.
That's politics.
And one of the things that Istruggle with is that people
play politics with some of ourdeepest most important issues.

(01:01:47):
And that's just how the game isplayed, is what I'm learning.
You know, like things are saida certain way because they know
that it's gonna spark a lot ofcontroversy or it's going to,
you know, get reactions out ofpeople.
When the application of the lawand the legislation attached
and the conversation happenswith those specific communities,

(01:02:09):
guess what?
It's just like that example ofreading something of paper that
someone said and then meetingthem in person.
People talk a big game behind akeyboard and an article and an
opinion, and then guess what?
You meet them in person,they're all smiles and
handshakes and cordial.
Because that's how we are ashumans.
We're so cowardly, right?

(01:02:31):
And the reality of thesenegotiations and land title in
British Columbia is that's gonnabe another generation's uh
Brunty Bear.
We're gonna push this along alittle ways and hopefully have a
positive impact on theseconversations and bringing
reconciliation to a good place.

(01:02:53):
Eliminating the fear the umrace-to-race uh battle and
misunderstanding, the the roadthat takes us farther apart
instead of closer together.
Understanding that asindigenous Indian Act bans we're
just as much a part of theecosystem as as any

(01:03:13):
municipality, you know, as asany other uh large corporation
business district stakeholder,right?
We get we drive on the roads,we go to the grocery store, we
put gas in our car, a great manyof us are trucks, right?
We we use all of the resourcesjust as much as anybody else
around us.

(01:03:33):
And and the fact is is thatinside of our bodies is is the
heart and the blood that thatevery single person has.
And we all kind of want thesame things.
But what politics does is it itdrives a wedge because that's
good for politics.
What the media does is it itdrives that wedge harder because
that's good for media.
That makes a great story.
You know, and as an indigenouspolitician, the Conservative

(01:03:56):
Party of British Columbia, rightnow, in the middle of all of
these complicated discussions, Ihave to keep my head on
straight.
And I have to be true to myvalues and who I am.
And I'm never not gonna fightthe good fight for indigenous
people, but I'm never not goingto be open to the conversation
of other British Columbians whodo feel worried or or threatened

(01:04:17):
or are, you know, it's it'shard done by.
We've got to kind of catcheverybody up and get everyone on
the same page.
And and for me, the way to dothat is by being honest,
forward-facing, forthright, youknow, collaborative, kind,
patient, understanding, open.
But I have my moments too.
And and when it comes to,again, this very specific

(01:04:40):
conversation, uh, I'm not sointo the the fear-mongering as
as maybe other politicians mightbe, because it's beneficial to
them and and their uh positionor their goals, or um maybe they
really do believe that thatthat those possibilities are are
true, or that that's what theirconstituents are telling them,

(01:05:01):
and so they're having to comeforward with that position and
and ensure their constituentsknow that they're fighting for
them.
Again, the people affected andpeople talking about this
everywhere is because of theprecedence, right?
But where the precedence isactually gonna matter, and you
would know this as a lawyer isgonna be the Supreme Court of
Canada.
Yeah, right?
This is dropping a bucket, onejudge who said, Yeah, the the

(01:05:24):
the burden is there, it createsthis shadow on private land.
Guess what?
That's true.
She made it a true assessment,you know.
And some people may have anopinion about how far that
assessment went and and the thebroach onto different um land
use rights, fishing rights of ofdifferent groups.
And hey, as indigenous people,we used to s settle that with

(01:05:45):
the Slahal game.
And if that didn't work, thenyeah, we were at war with each
other as well, just like manyother nations around the world.
We're in a different world now.
The war is is is suits and andand books and case law and and
arguments, and it takes a long,long, long time.
But I'll go back to what I, youknow, started with talking

(01:06:07):
about this, is this was allhanded down to us by a system
and a government of the day thatdid not settle treaties when
they had the opportunity to.

Aaron Pete (01:06:19):
Yeah.

Á'a:líya Warbus (01:06:20):
And because that work was not done, now it's
an indigenous people's problemfor trying to catch up
economically, for trying tofulfill a promise of of getting
land bigger than, you know, thistiny, tiny little dots that we
live on right now that give usno opportunity.
Oftentimes it was right by therailway tracks or right by the
power lines, right, you know,the the basically like the

(01:06:41):
crappiest pieces, littlecorners, um, or like I said,
somewhere way up in no man'sland because we're hunting
whatever, and and we're nowtrying to enter into and and
play in a level playing fieldeconomically with the rest of
British Columbia.
I'm not gonna apologize forthat.
Yeah.
And no indigenous person shouldeither.

Aaron Pete (01:07:01):
I like that because yeah, when you think back, and
most Canadians probably don'tknow this or British Columbians,
that uh Tommy Douglas uh agreedon anticipatory reserves, and
that's what he hadsubstantiated.
And then Joseph Trutch at thetime brought those down from
from 100% down to 10%, all theway down to 1% in certain cases,
because he thought that theIndian problem would come to an

(01:07:23):
end um in not too distant futurebecause of tuberculosis and
disease and and stuff like that.
And so so much of this needsthe context in order for people
to kind of grapple with thefacts.
I guess my final question toyou is you're heading back into
uh the legislature shortly inabout a month here.
I'm just curious what is thegoal of the Conservative Party
over the next year, over thenext sitting?

(01:07:45):
Um, what can we expect, and andhow do you hope to hold the
government accountable?

Á'a:líya Warbus (01:07:49):
Well, we're definitely chasing down a number
of complicated, high-levelissues that affect all British
Columbians right now.
Crime, health care, the drugcrisis, education, housing,
right?
Maybe flipping the last two,because housing is is obviously

(01:08:10):
at the top of a lot of people'slist right now because of the
plain fact that a lot of peoplecan't afford to get into
housing, they can't afford tobuild a house, they've let go of
the notion of being able toown, be a homeowner here in
British Columbia, and be able tofeed, clothe their kids and and
all the other things,especially if you're on one
income, right?
So those issues continue to beat the forefront.

(01:08:33):
The the land question, it itdefinitely bears weight because
of the decisions, like becauseof communities crossing uh the
line on being able to settlethrough discussions with
government um certain aspects ofof their, you know, potentially
it's a treaty context or it's areconciliation agreement

(01:08:55):
context.
You know, we talked about thedifferent avenues right now.
Um that is always going to, Ithink, become a uh a hot topic
or hot button issue for peoplebecause of the way that it's
perceived and and how that'sgoing to affect the larger
community.
So in session, I know that theum union pressure is going to

(01:09:17):
only ramp up for the NDP.
We have a lot of criticalquestions that have been
building over the summer monthsas we've all been doing casework
in our own respective areas.
And um we're going to apply thepressure when it comes to the
budget, spending um, and andcuts because our constituents

(01:09:40):
and our stakeholders near needclear answers, right?
And I know for a fact that uhthe ICBC file is is definitely
ramping up.
You know, there is a lot ofquestions from a lot of people.
Where is no fault going?
Um, how does private play arole in that?
And when are we going to seelegislative changes that's going
to be more conducive to theaverage person who wants good

(01:10:07):
insurance?
But guess what?
When they get into a crash,they also want the grievances
that's owed to them as well,right?
And I'm speaking to lawyers inin our local area about that.
We have a lot of issues in thebackcountry right now with our
homelessness population, and andthere's a lot of issues coming
up in and around education aswell, and like materials in
school follow up onto how areour parents and and our rights

(01:10:31):
for our children going to berecognized under this uh current
model of government because italso does feel like the nucleus
of the family is being a littlebit torn apart and and and it's
as though we don't evenrecognize ourselves within um
the unit of the family anymore.
You know, our connection to ourkids and and what rights we

(01:10:52):
have to say yes and no.
And when other, you know, adoctor or a counselor or someone
can come and overstep the rightand the connection you have to
your child.
Um things like that can be veryalarming for people, right?
Especially in the day and ageof of drug addiction and and
mental health, right?
So a lot of the things that aregoing to come forth in in the

(01:11:13):
spring session, we're at themercy of the government of the
day.
You know, they're the ones thattable legislation, they set the
schedule and and we respond toit.
But I do know that we havelegislation that was left over
from last session.
Some of that has to do with uhum driving uh for young people,
the graduated licensing program,getting rid of the second test.

(01:11:34):
There'll be di debate aboutsome nuts and bolts, things like
that.
But I mean it's anybody's guesswhat legislation that the
government, the NDP governmentright now is going to actually
put forward.
We hope to see things thatpeople have been asking for.
I know that there's someconcern around um the sick days
for small businesses and the andthe the burden that they have

(01:11:55):
on their shoulders because, youknow, there should be a certain
threshold for what you need toprovide as a business owner to
your employees and not just ablanket application.
And we're finding that an issuewith the NDP government as they
tend to have, you know, bigswings and blanket solutions for
things that actually don't workfor the diversity that we see
in British Columbia right nowand the economic strain that

(01:12:17):
people are feeling.
We want to see a lot strongeradvocacy with the federal
government right now.
We need to really push back forour forestry sector and ensure
that BC is a contender in in thearena right now, and especially
when it comes to talks and andthings that may be breaking down
at federal level with withDonald Trump and and with the

(01:12:38):
U.S.
and our neighbors to the south.
But again, we're doing work onour own, creating conversations
ourselves with senators and andelected officials in Washington
who do want to be collaborativewith us, you know, and that's
more at the provincial and statelevel.
So there's a lot of things thatare coming down the hatch.
There's a lot of things toaddress.
And I feel like right nowpeople kind of feel like their

(01:13:00):
hair's on fire a little bit.
In my position, that's what Ifeel any given day.
You know, but I go back to theadvice and the sage wisdom that
I've gotten from other leadersand people who have been so
gracious and kind to take meunder their wing to say, yeah,
we're gonna move and and andkick the can down a little bit
further than the last person.
But you're not gonna solve itall a day.

(01:13:22):
You're not gonna change theworld by yourself.
It takes many.
It takes you having theseconversations.
It takes um, you know, otherchiefs, other counselors who
have innovation and andeducation, it takes other the
government and and theministers, you know, and it
takes the nurses, the doctors,everybody.
You know, every board, everystakeholder, every organization.

(01:13:43):
And and literally I pay I playlike this like sliver role of
going around authentically beingmyself, offering my voice and
my energy to something and andhaving conversations that need
to be had to elevate an issue oror or bring a file, you know,
closer to completion.
That that's what we deal within my office is case files for

(01:14:04):
constituents.
I'm working on a toxicity thingright now in Ferry Creek.
Um there's there's a sprayhappening south of the border.
We don't have control over, butwe're in a hearing process
right now.
And and we'd love to get moreadvocacy and support from the
Minister of Environment and theMinister of Waterland Resource,
right?
Um, but that has yet to come toflourish.

(01:14:27):
And hopefully I get to havethose conversations.
I sometimes I bug them in thehallways at the legislature to
be, you know, hey, I need I needhelp with this.
And if they have the time,they're gracious enough to offer
like staff support or theythemselves will will work on it
with me, right?
We work across the aisle allthe time.
We may look as though wecompletely hate each other on TV
in question period if anybodyever watches that, which I I

(01:14:49):
don't think the numbers are thathigh.
Um, but in reality, it is acollaborative process.
End of the day, we do need tohave good relation across the
aisle because we all havedifferent needs and wants,
right?
But as opposition, we have tobe tough.
Our job is to question thegovernment, hold their feet to
the fire when things aren'tworking, and right now things
aren't working.

Aaron Pete (01:15:08):
Beautiful.
How can people follow your workand and stay in touch?

Á'a:líya Warbus (01:15:12):
Uh you can follow me.
I have a website and a profilewith the Conservative Party.
I have also the same kind ofprofile and website as a member
of the Legislative Assemblythrough the BC government
website.
Uh, you know, I have mysocials.
And the thing about socialmedia for me is it's one of

(01:15:32):
those places that I like to postwhat I'm doing and and my
interaction with community.
And and I'm not one of thosewarrior, social media warrior
politicians.
It just has never really beenmy skill or or my desire, but I
will be on there from time totime, especially if there's an

(01:15:53):
issue that I'm trying to kind ofget a feel or or look into.
But yeah, all that stuff's outthere.
Just Google me honestly.

Aaron Pete (01:16:00):
Thank you so much for this conversation.
It was very refreshing not tohave talking points or anything
like that and have a realconversation.
And just kudos to you for beingwilling to take this on.
There's so much going on in theprovincial political level, and
it's a lot of wait for anybodyto put their name forward, but
you have really come in at atime where there's a lot of

(01:16:20):
tension and a lot of politics,and trying to manage that, I
just kudos to you for beingwilling to approach that.
I really appreciate it, and I'mgrateful to have your voice in
the legislature.

Á'a:líya Warbus (01:16:31):
Thank you so much.
Appreciate it.