July 21, 2025 • 58 mins
Carol Suhan, Manager of Conservation & Energy Management at FortisBC, joins host Aaron Pete to unpack energy efficiency upgrades, safety, dual-fuel heating, Indigenous partnerships, and home comfort solutions that save money and improve lives.
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Episode Transcript
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Carol Suhan (00:06):
I have to say, very proud of working for Fortis and
really delivering a vitalservice for everybody in the
province.
Aaron Pete (00:15):
But could we start at the beginning?
What is FortisBC?
Carol Suhan (00:18):
Energy efficiency not only will make your home
more comfortable, reduce yourutility bills, but potentially
could even improve your health.
Aaron Pete (00:25):
And what does that look like in people's homes when
they're getting that Fortisbill?
What does that really mean?
Carol Suhan (00:30):
You could have a new furnace and you could have
solar and you could have airconditioning, but if it's that
air is just leaking in and outof your house?
Aaron Pete (00:36):
Why is it so important that you have BC,
hydro and Fortis BC?
What was the logic behindmaking sure that you have
different options?
Carol Suhan (00:44):
Homes were saving on average.
Minimum was like $200 and $300a year to $3,000, $4,000 a year.
Having that heat, having thatenergy in people's homes, it's
not even a matter of comfort,it's a matter of safety.
Aaron Pete (01:12):
Carol, thank you so much for being willing to join
us today.
Would you mind first brieflyintroducing yourself?
Carol Suhan (01:17):
I'm Carol Suhan.
I work for FortisBC in theEnergy and Conservation Group,
and over the last seven-ishyears I've been working almost
exclusively with Indigenouscommunities, again really trying
to improve energy efficiency inhomes and in community
buildings.
The idea, of course, is to makehomes more comfortable, reduce
(01:39):
utility costs, utility bills,and obviously climate change is
a part of that as well.
Aaron Pete (01:45):
Fantastic.
I'm very excited to be doingthis series and to get to know
individuals like yourself,because I personally feel like
Fortis serves so many homes andit's such an important piece of
our day-to-day lives.
Somewhat we take that forgranted and somewhat.
We need more education onunderstanding what Fortis is,
how it serves communities andhow it plays a role in making
(02:06):
sure that we're safe in thewinter and that we have the heat
and support we need throughoutthose seasons.
But could we start at thebeginning?
What is Fortis BC?
Carol Suhan (02:16):
Well, fortis BC actually is like two companies.
One is an electricity supply ordistribution, and we actually
produce our own electricitythrough the Kootenays and the
Okanagan, and then, of course, anatural gas distribution
company that services probably95% of the province of British
(02:39):
Columbia, from Fort Nelson rightdown to Vancouver and good
parts of Vancouver Island aswell.
Aaron Pete (02:47):
And what does that look like in people's homes when
they're getting that forestbill?
What does that really mean?
Carol Suhan (02:53):
Well, it means that you're connected, you have gas
heating in your home and,interestingly enough, a lot of
folks don't realize that theyactually do have gas heating in
their home.
They have a furnace, it works,but yeah, so that's heating,
(03:15):
which, by the way, does accountfor about 50% to 65% of your
energy bill is actually to heatyour home.
So it's a big.
I think it's a really importantpart of you know how you make
your home comfortable and safe.
Aaron Pete (03:34):
Yeah, so I'm just thinking you mentioned furnace.
I also think I just got a hotwater on demand system as well
that also uses gas, and I'm justinterested in understanding
that in comparison to hydro.
Carol Suhan (03:48):
Okay, and actually you mentioned hot water, which
is also really important interms of energy efficiency
because it too uses between Idon't know, 15 and 20% of all of
the energy use in your homewould be for hot water.
So now you're sort of 50 to 80%for space and water heating In
comparison with electricity.
(04:09):
I mean, obviously hydroprovides, it can provide space
heating, it can provide hotwater.
Generally speaking, the naturalgas system is more affordable
to operate and I know forIndigenous communities,
particularly when you get intomore remote areas, you don't,
(04:30):
electricity can be outages andthere can be outages for days at
a time.
You probably have experiencedthat.
So you know here's a way of youknow at least maintaining, you
know, more comfort in your homesand having heat, or even though
your furnace might not work,but you can have a gas fireplace
(04:50):
backup or whatever.
So I think it's a really goodfit for Indigenous communities,
particularly who have extendedoutages in more remote rural
areas.
Aaron Pete (05:02):
Can you walk us through that?
Why is it so important that youhave BC, hydro and FortisBC?
What was the logic behindmaking sure that you have
different options?
Carol Suhan (05:14):
This would be obviously developed over the
last number of decades.
But and actually it's amisconception I think a lot of
people don't realize how muchenergy that the gas system
provides to the province.
We think about electricity, wethink about turning lights on or
(05:36):
turning them off or turningyour computers off, but really,
as I just mentioned before, youknow, when you consider that 50
to 80% of a building's energyuse is space and water heating,
yeah, space and water heating isa really important part, and so
(05:57):
, as the energy system was builtout over, you know, the last 50
, 60 years, gas was very muchmeant to be space and water
heating and particularly in thecoldest days of the year, like
Fortis BC will provide more thantwo times energy than all the
electricity systems combined.
(06:17):
So Fortis BC, electric, bcHydro but yeah, on those coldest
days of the year, the gassystem is imperative, I think,
because I know the electricalsystem couldn't possibly keep
all of our homes at this pointin time.
Anyway, keep our homescomfortable and not even
(06:37):
comfortable, safe what?
Aaron Pete (06:40):
does that mean to you to be an employee that has
the opportunity to make thatimpact?
Again, I think most people justexpect their home to be heated,
but if you look back 200 years,you were completely reliant on
a fireplace or some sort ofsystem like that.
Now we somewhat take that forgranted and I don't think that's
necessarily a bad thing, butthere's so many people working
(07:02):
behind the scenes to make sureyou never even think about
turning up your thermostat andheating up your home, and I
think it's important that weunderstand the work that goes
into that.
Carol Suhan (07:12):
I have to say I guess I'm very proud of working
for Fortis and really deliveringa vital service for everybody
in the province.
And I also know that mycolleagues take this I mean
having resilient, making surethat the heating system or,
(07:35):
again, if it's electricity,everything works and works
safely and on time, and all thetime I mean they take that work
very, very seriously.
I have been in the operationscenters.
When we bring a heat wave, forexample, and, like you know,
alarms are going off and peopleare scrambling to make sure that
(07:57):
there's enough electricity Ithink it happens to be
electricity in this case, butthat to meet the air
conditioning needs.
And you know so folks, thisfolks you talk about in the
background, there's a ton ofwork that goes on in the
background that, yeah, we neverknow about.
It's just you flip on theswitch, you turn up your heat
and it works.
(08:17):
But yeah, I think, gosh, we havejust short of 3,000 employees
across the province and you knowwhether we're working of 3,000
employees across the provinceand you know whether we're
working in communities, like youknow, for example, I was in
Prince George just, you know, ashort time ago, and up in the
north, and you know there'sfolks working in those
communities to make sure thatthe gas is working.
Or again, I talked about beingin.
(08:39):
You know that electricityservice territory people working
making sure that we have enoughelectricity to meet that demand
.
And you know that electricityservice territory people working
making sure that we have enoughelectricity to meet that demand
.
And you know, and actuallybuying it on the market and
doing it live and there's somuch stuff that goes on in the
background.
Aaron Pete (08:51):
I had the opportunity to tour I believe
it's called the Tilbury site andone of the things that one of
the tour guides had explainedwas I forget what year it was,
but it was during an incrediblecold spell that we had, where it
was hitting minus 30, minus 28for a period of time.
That put incredible strain onthe system because everybody had
(09:13):
their heating cranked and thesystem had never kind of been
prepared for such an event forsuch a long period of time.
Event for such a long period oftime, and again, when you don't
know about those things, it'sso humbling to realize the
amount of work that goes on totry and prepare for those
circumstances, and I knowthere's plans to begin to
address that and make sure thatwe're in a better system the
(09:35):
next time a cold spell comes.
But just knowing that so manypeople are doing work and we
don't get the opportunity toappreciate that just humbles me.
Carol Suhan (09:44):
Yeah, I think you're talking about January
2023.
I know I was minus 40 and minus50 in parts of the country or
province rather, and it lastedfor quite a long time.
And yeah, both the electricitysystems more so, but the gas
systems, again, we're sort ofmaxing out and this had never
(10:06):
been experienced before and Idon't know.
I'm sure you heard aboutAlberta, that you know they were
this close.
Their electricity system wasthis close to collapsing because
it was so cold and in thatparticular case, I think, the
gas system, they almostdelivered nine times more energy
.
And again, you know well, butwhen it's minus 35, minus 40,
(10:31):
really you only have four orfive hours in your home before
you start to freeze.
So having that heat, havingthat energy in people's homes is
it's not even a matter ofcomfort, it's a matter of safety
.
Yeah, I'm getting goosebumpsjust talking about that.
Aaron Pete (10:49):
Yeah, and that's exactly when I did that tour.
I was like I'd be veryinterested in having this
conversation because it'ssomething that, had it happened,
had it gone over that edge,we'd be a very humbled province,
or Alberta would be a veryhumbled province of the
circumstances, and people arevery vulnerable and there's
statistics out there that morepeople pass away due to the
(11:11):
coldness than due to the heat.
Carol Suhan (11:14):
Yes, not many folks know that.
Aaron Pete (11:17):
And so it's an important piece that I don't
know if we always appreciate,and then learning pieces as
we'll get into when we talk moreabout how we prepare for being
energy educated and beinginformed on those pieces that,
like hot water on demand systemsare better for the environment
than having a hot water tankthat's constantly heating when
you're not home and when you'renot using it, and and that
(11:38):
that's a better step.
Carol Suhan (11:40):
oh boy well I'm and I've worked for in the energy
conservation area and and ofcourse, I think just you know
conservation and efficiency iscritical.
You know if we're, you knowtalking about climate change,
but you know, addressing andtrying to decarbonize our energy
system, but you know theprobably I mean the most
(12:02):
cost-effective and it just makessense, like on the global scale
, but also on the individualscale.
You know it's making ourbuildings more energy efficient
so that you use less energy,which means you, you know, emit
less carbon and whether you know, you know whether that's more
insulation in your home or newwindows and doors, or a new
(12:25):
heating system or your new hotwater tank.
All of those things go togetherand you can make significant
decreases in consumption, orenergy consumption and emissions
by just making our buildingsmuch energy efficient.
(12:45):
By just making our buildingsmuch energy efficient and I know
we go historically, I think,because energy was so
inexpensive and it was so takenfor granted that we didn't build
buildings really well and sonow we're having to go back and
do it afterwards but it can makea huge, huge difference.
Aaron Pete (12:58):
The other piece I wanted to ask about and it's
just a reflection for myself inregards to the differences
between BC Hydro and Fortis andthe type of energy that's
produced.
I had a heating expert come inand we were working on the hot
water tank and one piece that Ifound so interesting because we
installed a washer dryer for mymom and they came in and they
(13:22):
were like it probably makessense to do a gas dryer because
you're using a lot ofelectricity right now, so this
will kind of balance it out.
You're not using that much gas.
And he was like one of thebenefits of that is that you get
a clean dry, that you don't getthe static electricity, and I
just I found that reallyinteresting to learn about some
of the differences betweenelectric heat and gas heat,
(13:42):
because you don't produce thatand then when you're heating
your home you'll feel that.
He described it as a warm hugwhen you have your gas on,
versus like BC Hydro's heatwhich doesn't give off that same
surrounding warmth.
Carol Suhan (13:57):
Oh, yeah, yeah, that is yeah.
I think there's some realadvantages to both like to gas
heat or again.
That said, I think you knowthis is happening across the
province and I know maybe I'mgoing a little bit sideways here
(14:20):
, but in some ways I think theperfect combination is sort of a
dual fuel heating system, andthey've been around now for well
, they've been around forprobably more than a decade, but
only a couple of years inBritish Columbia.
But it's a combined connected,you know, heat pump which has
electricity which would provideheat in the sort of shoulder
(14:40):
seasons, and cooling in thesummer, which is becoming more
and more important.
But then, when we're talkingabout these colder days of the
year, the system automaticallygoes back into gas.
So it keeps your billsaffordable and you do get the
warm hug because gas can providethat instant kind of heat very
(15:04):
quickly versus taking a longertime.
And I think, well, I'll justmention this.
But this is I give them kudosbecause I just think they've
been doing fantastic work.
But Adams Lake, first Nation inthe Shuswap I think it was in
2019, you know, six years ago inthe Shuswap, I think it was in
2019, you know, six years ago, Ithink they were one of the very
(15:26):
first communities, if not evenyou know organized larger, you
know community areas.
They installed five dual-fuelheating systems and they loved
them so much that they've nowgot this.
You know informal policy thatall of the renovations and all
their new construction all havedual-fuel heating systems and
anyway.
So in some ways I think that'skind of the optimal approach.
(15:47):
You know, the heat pump isreally efficient for cooling and
working when it's not too coldand then when it gets cold you
have, you know, that gas heatwhich in your own personal home
again makes you more comfortable.
It keeps your bills moreaffordable.
But again, if we look at themore global, provincial scale,
(16:10):
we're reducing emissions for agood chunk of the year.
Aaron Pete (16:13):
When we think of BC Hydro it's so easy to think of a
hydroelectric dam.
It's easy to symbolicallyunderstand what hydro does.
It's harder for gas.
Would you mind explaining to uswhat the gas is?
Just some of those processes.
What is actually heating thehome?
How does that process work?
Carol Suhan (16:32):
Well, it is a gas that of course is extracted and
just by way of note, this is notmy field of expertise, so I'll
try and give it my best here butof course the gas is extracted,
almost all of it, from NorthernBC or Alberta, for the southern
part of British Columbia we doget most of our gas from Alberta
(16:55):
and Saskatchewan through thesouthern crossing, but more
central British Columbia comesfrom the north.
It is, you know, cleaned andthen piped up.
It brings into our home.
It is our furnaces, our waterheaters, the dryer you mentioned
before.
They do have combustionequipment in your home that of
(17:15):
course uses that gas to createheat and that is then pumped
through your home.
It is, you know, I think it's avery kind of elemental kind of
heating system.
But of course now the heatingsystems now are so much more
efficient that you know weactually before they used to be
like in the 50, 60% efficientrange and like now we're all
(17:38):
looking at 97% plus and then ifyou have the dual fuel system,
like a couple hundred percent.
But either way, I'm gettinginto detail here.
Aaron Pete (17:48):
What does that mean, though?
What does it mean to be energyefficient in percentages?
Carol Suhan (17:55):
Okay.
Well, all of the energy that isconsumed becomes heat.
Okay, and actually if you go toa heat pump, it can be 200% to
300% efficient.
Because if you're using achemical, like a refrigerator,
you know it's in your home butit uses a chemical that
circulates and it can turn coolair or take air out of your home
(18:19):
and make it cold, and you knowthat's how your refrigerator
works.
A heat pump kind of works theopposite way it takes heat out
of the air, even when it's quitecool, and heats your home,
again using that chemicalprocess, you know, and it's all
closed tube.
So again, this combinationsystem of using heat pumps and,
(18:43):
you know, gas heating, I thinkjust makes really good sense,
right.
Aaron Pete (18:51):
I'm interested to understand how you work with BC
Hydro.
Is there a strong relationshipthere?
What does that process looklike?
Are you two giant competitorsagainst each other?
Carol Suhan (19:01):
Not at all.
Yeah, especially working withIndigenous communities.
We work really closely with BCHydro and, as a matter of fact,
but we now have a joint programessentially to provide funding,
(19:26):
support for Indigenouscommunities to improve housing
and their buildings in terms ofenergy efficiency.
So I think we work reallyclosely and again, I think that
speaks to again how the systemswork together and you know,
because we need both electricity, but again that gas makes such
a, you know, a contribution inmaking sure that you know,
(19:50):
heating your home continues tobe safe, affordable and more
comfortable.
Aaron Pete (19:58):
So there's also a goal to reach 15 percent
renewable gas in the system by2030.
Do you know what that means?
Carol Suhan (20:06):
I talked a lot about efficiency and how really
we want to make people's homesand community buildings way more
energy efficient.
So you use less gas, which meansthere's less carbon—less—
carbon, fewer carbon emissions,but at the same time we want to
just be decarbonizing the gasthat we do use to heat homes.
(20:29):
So that is a combination ofrenewable natural gas, which is,
you know, which is kind of avery cool product, because we
actually harvest the methanethat's, you know, off from
landfills and sewage treatmentplants and you know agricultural
, like cows manure, you know.
So we harvest that methane andput it into our gas system and,
(20:53):
of course, it's burned inpeople's homes.
We also are working on howhydrogen can be injected into
our system.
Again, you know, a low carbonfuel that reduces the carbon of
all the gas that's going intoeveryone's homes.
So that's where that kind of15% comes plan to have 15% less
(21:21):
carbon in our delivery systemand through, yeah, that people
automatically, whether they knowit or not, actually are
emitting lower greenhouse gasemissions, and that's probably
one of the coolest things tolearn is that over time, we've
become more and more energyefficient without knowing it.
Aaron Pete (21:42):
That like.
From my understanding, one ofthe biggest global challenges is
people burning garbage, ispeople still using lumber and
timber to try and heat theirhomes or heat around the world
heat their homes and that we'vemanaged to move in the right
direction over a very longperiod of time.
So our impact has continued toreduce on the environment and on
(22:07):
ecosystems than where we wouldhave been if we were all using
like firewood still today.
Carol Suhan (22:13):
Yeah, so not only from an energy consumption
perspective, but also just airquality, exactly.
Aaron Pete (22:20):
Yeah, yeah.
Can you tell me what doesenergy literacy mean?
Carol Suhan (22:26):
Well, energy literacy, I think, is really
important because we really,again, if we're talking about
climate change, how do we makeimprovements if we don't
understand how we use energy?
And that's both on a provincial, federal, global scale or in
our homes.
And I have been talking aboutefficiency.
(22:47):
But, again, if you want to makeimprovements, I'm studying,
first of all, how is your homeheated, and I come across lots
of folks who don't know I have afurnace, who don't know I have
a furnace.
I don't know, but just you know.
So, understanding that, and thenalso understanding how much
(23:08):
energy is used to heat your homeor to heat your water, and then
you wait a second and go okay,I'm really good about turning
the computer off when I'm notusing it, but I don't.
I'm not really good aboutturning the thermostat down when
I leave or overnight.
But now I just realized, wow,three quarters of all the energy
I use in my home is to heat myhome or and water.
(23:29):
Okay, when I'm, when I'm nothome, I'm turning the thermostat
down.
So that's a you know, that's areal basic place to start.
And then, of course, once youknow that you can start building
, you know, incrementally, youknow, either, on making your
home more energy efficient, or Iguess that's kind of it, or
(23:52):
even some behavior things thatyou can do to again use, you
know, less energy.
What are some?
Aaron Pete (23:57):
energy myths or some common myths that you hear
about.
The two that just come to mymind is one solar panels.
When they had first come out,were very maybe not in the place
they needed to be.
So some of our communitymembers, as we've started to
bring in solar panels, have beenlike, I hear, they don't really
work that well.
And then we're like, actuallythe technology's improved quite
(24:19):
a bit and so we're in adifferent place with solar
panels.
And then the other one is heatpumps.
Heat pumps when they startedweren't that popular and we have
some people in our communitywho have early heat pumps and
they're like, oh, they don'twork that well and they've come
so far.
So what are some other mythsthat you've heard?
Carol Suhan (24:36):
Well, I think there are a lot of myths about solar,
but actually I'll just tell youa little story.
I was in Seattle and it was theenergy manager in the city of
Seattle.
He said when I retire, I'mgoing to go into the fake solar
panel business.
(24:57):
I go what?
What are you talking about?
Anyway, he was saying likeevery time someone makes an
energy efficiency improvement intheir house, so they put in
more insulation or they put inbetter windows and doors, they
they automatically get two solarpanels so they can put on the
roof and show the world what agood job that they're doing,
right?
(25:18):
Anyway, I just think it's areally, because I think so many
people think, oh, solar it'senergy efficiency.
It's not.
It's adding more energy, butit's not energy efficiency.
It's not.
You know, we can change out theheating system, we can add
solar, but if our homes arestill leaky, you know you still
have cold air, you know, leakingin into your house in the
(25:40):
wintertime or your heat, or evensummertime when it's really hot
, and you can't, you don't even.
But if that air is just leakingin and out of your house, that
has much less of an influencethan if you had just made your
home more energy efficient, moreairtight in the first place, so
(26:09):
yeah, I'm curious because myunderstanding is that also radon
is a concern to so many and solike.
Aaron Pete (26:17):
It seems like there's this dichotomy between
sealing your home and then I'veheard about radon, which is like
you don't want to seal it toomuch or you could end up having
high amounts of radon.
So is that something you'vethought about at all?
Carol Suhan (26:30):
Yeah, it is for sure we really do want people's
homes to be as airtight aspossible and like literally only
have like one and a half airchanges per hour, because, like
my home anyway, like seven,eight hour air changes per hour
like you're heating the outside.
But to your point about radon,if you're living in an area with
high radon, I mean first of allyou can test your home to see
(26:52):
how much radon isn't thatactually is being emitted into
the atmosphere in your home andsee how much radon actually is
being emitted into theatmosphere in your home and if
it's quite high and you want tomake energy efficiency
improvements, please do that.
But there are radon mitigationefforts which you actually get
a—again.
I'm not the technical person,but they actually put a pipe
through your crawl space or yourbasement and then they pull it
(27:14):
up into the environment so itnever gets into your home at all
, and so that's certainly all ofthe new construction where you
need very airtight homes thatare very energy efficient and
very inexpensive to operate.
They all have.
Well, at least in areas thathave radon, they all are
required to have radonmitigation systems installed.
Aaron Pete (27:34):
Can you say that again?
One and a half air changes perhour.
What does that mean?
Carol Suhan (27:39):
Okay, Sorry, that is a technical measurement that
we use, but it's to find out howenergy efficient your home is.
So energy evaluators will doblower door tests and they
literally put on a big fan onyour front door and they create
(28:00):
enough pressure reverse pressure, that would be the equivalent
of 100-kilometer winds at threesides of your house to see how
windy your house is or how— andthe most efficient homes now are
, you know, in that, less thanone or one and a half air
changes per hour, and homes likemy home that was built in the
(28:21):
early 1990s.
Well, we have made a lot ofimprovements in our home, but if
they hadn't, we'd probably havenine, 10 air changes per hour.
Like yeah.
So if you think about that,you're heating your home with
expensive energy and you'relosing all of that heat in your
house 10 times in one hour.
Aaron Pete (28:40):
And so is that the impetus to help people start to
take some of these steps,because not only is it good for
their wallet, for their expenses, but it's also reducing the
pressure on these systems.
It sounds like it's reducingthe amount of energy we need to
pull from the earth, and so isthat some of the logic behind
trying to become more energyefficient.
Carol Suhan (29:01):
Yes.
So I mean you can talk aboutthe global scale, about climate
change and carbon emissionreductions, but we also talk
about this personal, in our ownhomes, that if we can make our
homes more airtight, add moreinsulation, maybe change out the
heating system, maybe not, butI'll just okay.
(29:24):
My own home, um, this would be15 ish years ago 14 years ago,
because my home was built in the1990s, didn't?
We were not required to put anyinsulation in the crawl space,
didn't need need to, it wasn'tpart of the building code.
Well, but yeah, you lose almosthalf of your energy from your
crawl space or your basement andyour attic.
(29:45):
So if they aren't insulated,well, like you're, just you know
your warm air is just seepingout of your house.
So in our own case, weinsulated the crawl space and we
changed out our furnace because, again in 1990-ish or whatever,
the furnace was probably 50%efficient.
I think the energy evaluatorsaid it was kind of like taking
a Hummer, this great big hulkingfurnace in the corner of our
(30:08):
house, but taking a Hummer anddriving to the corner store,
like, you're going to use a lotof fuel.
Anyway, we changed out to anenergy-efficient furnace, we
insulated the crawl space andtogether that was, you know.
I mean there were rebates aswell, like it was, I don't know,
$5,000, $6,000.
Our gas bill dropped by halfand I know it was extraordinary.
(30:31):
It was extraordinary and youknow, since that time we've done
other energy efficiencyimprovements and since that time
we've done other energyefficiency improvements We've
added more insulation in ourattic, we got a new hot water
tank that's on demand, and newwindows and doors and again I
think we've dropped ourconsumption again by another
half or quarter.
(30:52):
So, even though the costs ofenergy have increased a lot over
the last 15 years and theyprobably still will in the
future, our energy bills areless than they were in 2000.
So anyway, I just tell thatstory.
That's my own personal story,but I got to feel it, experience
(31:12):
it, not only in how much ourutility bills dropped but also
the comfort of the house, rightLike I'm comfortable wearing
socks in the wintertime and Idon't have cold air blowing in
my face when I lay in bed, whichwas the case before.
We changed out the windows,because our bedroom faces the
northeast and you get the windfrom the north.
(31:32):
Anyway, I'm sorry, that's myown personal story, but I guess
it's an example, though you knowhow it can make huge
differences, like I'll use theSoyuz Indian Band as an example
and I just this community hasdone some wonderful things, but
in 2018, 2017, you know, theyjust again, folks were just
(31:54):
complaining about their high,high utility bills, and they
often did have really highutility bills.
And so what can we do?
I know we had talked a littlebit about behavior, but, again,
if your house is really leaky,if you've got 10 air changes per
hour, it's just going to be,it's going to, it's always going
(32:16):
to.
Even if you change out yourheating system to a more
efficient system, it's stillgoing to be really expensive.
So the community decided, andwe met and we chatted about this
a number of times, but we, andthen FortisBC, helped support
this, but they got energyevaluations done for all the
homes that were built before2010.
Right, all the homes that werebuilt before 2010.
(32:38):
Right.
And then they made a list ofyou know, this home was in
pretty good shape.
Oh gee, maybe we can put somemore insulation in the attic.
Oh my gosh, this home needseverything.
It needs new windows and doors,it needs more insulation.
And then, of course, theycreated a priority list of what
needed to be done.
(32:58):
They applied for funding fromIndigenous Services Canada and,
of course, fortis had rebatesand other funding support.
They renovated over the nexttwo years and a half during
COVID, but they did this for 162homes I think it was originally
149, but they actually had alittle bit of budget left over
(33:18):
if they could do more homes.
And it cost other than forthemselves to really organize
themselves.
And you know, and yes, they hadto get all the contractors to
do more insulation and thewindows et cetera.
But you know they got all thefunding from the combination
between ISK and FortisBC to dothat and I know the project
(33:40):
manager working on that said.
You know homes were saving onaverage.
A minimum was like $200 and$300 a year to $3,000, $4,000 a
year.
So yeah, I think it's one of myfavorite projects to talk about
.
Aaron Pete (33:59):
Can we briefly go through?
I know we've mentioned quite afew of them, but what does
energy efficiency upgrades looklike?
If somebody's hearing this andthey're like I want to take
action, I want to start toexperience some of these savings
.
What are those things?
Carol Suhan (34:14):
I mean you can kind of just say, well, gee,
downstairs, there's noinsulation.
I think we need to getinsulation down there.
But I really do recommend, ifyou can get an energy evaluation
, because these are the energyevaluators that do the blower
door tests, where they createthe 100-kilometer-an-hour winds
in your house or the outside ofyour house, and they can really
(34:40):
tell you really quickly andeasily oh my gosh, you have no
insulation in this wall at all,or there's, you know, a big
gaping around that fireplace orthose windows.
There's big gaping holes andthe cold air is just coming in.
And they'll take pictures, youknow, with the infrared camera
so you can see where the coldair is coming in.
So but anyway, and then theygive you a map or a a plan of
(35:04):
what you might want to do, andusually the most, if cost the
lowest cost first, and thengoing to the, you know, to make
your home gradually over time,because you you might want to do
it all at one time, but you may.
In my own case we've done itover the last 15 years, you know
, one at a time, but almostalways it's air sealing first.
So if you've got, you know,drafts around your windows or
(35:26):
doors.
You know, get your caulking gunout, that costs you 15 bucks.
That can make a big difference.
And then it's insulation andthat might cost you maybe a
thousand ish dollars but make ahuge difference.
But by okay, I'm now, I'm gonnago, I'm gonna go into, you know
, um, fortis and bc, hydro, um,depending on your heating source
or if you have wood or propane,because a lot of indigenous
(35:49):
communities do have woodenpropane heat.
Uh, the province is a clean bcprogram, the three program.
We all provide funding supportthat will probably pay for very
close to 100% of insulationinvestment and similarly
anywhere from oh, and we'll payfor close to 100%, depending on
(36:11):
where you are, but for theenergy evaluation.
So that energy evaluation isalmost it'll be a very small
investment.
I think They'll make therecommendations of what you
should be doing and then you cando it over time.
And again, the utilities, cleanBC we provide funding support
(36:34):
for all that work along the way,whether it is like insulation,
which I tell you is about, wecover about 90% of the cost to
heating systems, again around80%, like dual-fuel heating
system, for example, with$15,000 rebate, and so anyway,
that's a and you can do that asan individual.
(36:56):
And now, of course, I've justtalked about these rebates for
Indigenous communitiesspecifically, which means you
would have to work with yourhousing department because they
would help support you throughthat process.
Whether it's you as anindividual, you know, if you are
a CP like a homeowner or ifyou're a renter, are a cp like a
(37:21):
homeowner or if you're a renter.
But you know, I think you know,we've the housing teams, you
know, in communities across bcare really recognizing how
important this is and reallywant to help their community
members access and make theirhomes more comfortable, reduce
their utility bills because, ifyou know, that can be a really
high cost for some folks andaffordability is so important.
Aaron Pete (37:39):
That's what we've noticed.
We've brought in heat pumpsinto our community Chulalongkorn
First Nation and the biggestthing that we've gotten so much
feedback on is now I have a heatbill that went from $300 a
month to $75 a month.
Now I have that money that cango towards putting my kids in
sports, that can go towards metaking online classes, that can
go towards putting more food inthe home and taking other steps
(38:01):
in your life.
And for people who, on manyreserves, are relying on social
assistance, that $200 a monthcan be a huge difference to
somebody being able to start totake steps in their life.
And that's been the humblingexperience being on council,
seeing there's these little umblocks and they all build
towards somebody being able tobe self-sufficient and and be
(38:23):
comfortable.
And the challenge on reserve isoften that it's not like the
homeowner.
When I want a home that's notenergy efficient, that isn't
designed properly, that uh hasbad windows, it's that
organizations like likeIndigenous Services Canada gave
an exact amount of money andthey needed to build a house
with that amount of money, andso they had to make cuts and do
(38:44):
things in a more cost-effectiveway.
That resulted in the home notbeing energy efficient, and so
when programs like this comeabout, there's a lot of
opportunity to address theseissues, help the homeowner, but
I mean the the.
The second biggest responsewe've gotten is air conditioning
on reserve, because that's sounusual.
Uh, it's such a cost on theindividual to buy their own air
(39:06):
conditioning system.
Then it's in one room, so it'snot that uh efficient to get to
the whole house, and so thatroom is cool, but the whole
house is boiling.
That's heating up that room,and now we have these systems
that are going along the sidethe furnace system to cool the
whole house, and I sincerelythink that that's an
under-recognized piece.
Of people flourishing withintheir homes is when it's hot,
(39:28):
it's very hard to do anything,it's very hard to use your brain
, it's very hard to want to getmotivated to do anything, and so
you have these communities.
Everybody's got boiling hothomes, and when it's smoky,
you've got homes that are filledwith smoke as well, and those
pieces are starting to allowpeople to really perform,
whether they're in school orwhether or not they just went
for a long run and now they wantto go inside and cool off.
(39:50):
You're really letting peoplekind of perform at their best.
Carol Suhan (39:53):
Yeah.
Well, this is where again I'mgoing to go back to that dual
fuel heating system, because Ithink it's kind of this perfect
combination, because you willget the heating sorry, the
cooling in summer, which ofcourse summer is.
We are getting some moredrastic weather and again it is
through the whole home.
It's very, it's morecomfortable.
It also have good aircirculation and filtration,
(40:16):
although people must make surethat they change their filters
out regularly or else you loseyour efficiency.
But then, of course, on thosecoldest days, or even if it's
just colder period, going intothe gas furnace you get that
really comfortable heat and it'smore affordable.
It's less expensive than if youwere to try and heat your home
(40:39):
um with electricity all winterlong, and I know in this part of
this part of the world it's nottoo too bad.
But certainly if you get alittle bit further north um, gas
is much more affordable.
Aaron Pete (40:51):
Yeah, what are some of the energy efficiency
programs fortis is running?
Can you walk us through some ofthe work you're doing?
Carol Suhan (40:57):
Well, we've got a—boy.
We provide funding support forenergy efficiency improvements
from everything from communitybuildings so health centers, you
know, schools, et cetera toindividual homes, and then we
have three main areas.
So one, individual homes.
And again, this program wasjust launched and I've talked
(41:18):
before about how we're workingcollaboratively with BC Hydro
and CleanBC, the Ministry ofEnergy, and we have integrated
all of our programs together tohave one access point and have
exactly the same funding supportfor whatever initiative it's
got, what community wants to do.
(41:39):
Because we know, and I'm sureyou've had this experience,
housing teams are oftenoverwhelmed and I can't believe
the breadth of work that theymust do.
But you know before you knowyou'd have to.
If you had an electricallyheated home, you'd have to apply
to BC Hydro for funding support.
If you had a gas heated home,you'd apply to FortisBC, which
(42:01):
is, you know, just complicated.
Now we have one access pointand everything is like all the
eligibility requirements,everything are combined.
We also have coaches, because wealso know that, again, as a
housing manager, how do you knowall of this stuff?
How do you like?
(42:22):
What amount of work that theyhave to do is crazy.
So we try to help them alongthe way and you know answer
questions and you know connectthem with contractors if need be
, et cetera.
And then, of course,contractors if need be, etc.
And then of course, um, youapply for the rebate or the
funding support and it comes toyou and then we and you know the
(42:43):
the two utilities and theproblems figured out.
You know who pays in thebackground, so the customer will
never know and that's what Iwas saying before like we're
paying in into the 80, 80% onaverage of different elements,
whether it's that insulation orthe windows and doors, or the
heating systems.
Aaron Pete (43:05):
I'm very glad to hear that.
Carol Suhan (43:07):
Yeah, I think we also now will pay for project
management, because we know ittakes someone's time and effort
to pull it all together.
And, if need be, we also willpay 50% up front, because not
all communities require that butsome do.
They just don't have the cashflow or the capital to actually
(43:29):
start this work.
So, with a good plan, we willprovide the funding up front and
as it moves through, of course,now you've finished working on
these three homes, or four homes, or ten homes, whatever it
might be you get the rebate andthen you can use that rebate to
work on the next five homes orso on.
So I don't know, we think it'sgoing to be.
(43:50):
I think I won't say gamechanger, but we've worked really
closely with we have theIndigenous Program Advisory
Council and they have beenremarkable.
They just provided us somereally good advice and
information for us to help tobuild this program and make it
(44:11):
work as well as possible.
We still have to meet our kindof regulatory requirements, but
again, make it work forindigenous communities.
And you know, again, someonecan, you know, apply to do one
home at a time or only one, justinsulation on that one home, or
you can do you know we now havecommunities that are planning
(44:32):
to do all their homes again thatwere built prior to 2010 or
whatever.
You know, just like I mentionedthe Soyuz, we've got other
communities planning to do thatover the next several years and
I don't know.
I find that incredibly.
You know, rewarding that we canhelp make this happen.
Yeah, and then the last program, which I'm also really proud of
(44:56):
.
You know I'm proud ofeverything.
No, but we again building newhomes.
You know you're saying beforeoften, you know really tight
budgets and how do you get allof this?
We are providing up to, well, Iguess, sort of $32,000 per home
to help make those new homes asenergy efficient as possible.
(45:18):
So that helps.
You know, hire to work with anenergy evaluator.
They can work with you and helpidentify what you need to do
for your builder or yourdesigner, what needs to be done
to make this home really energyefficient.
And then, of course, if you dohave to put in, you know, more
robust windows and doors or moreinsulation, that extra $20,000
(45:39):
or $15,000 can help pay for that.
So okay, and I'll just give onelittle plug here now help pay
for that.
So okay, and I'll just give oneone little plug here now.
But uh, yakanuki and the firstnation in in creston, um lower
kootenai indian band.
This would be again in 2020,2019, again be pre.
See all the things startedpre-covid and that no.
(46:00):
But we convinced them becausethey were going to, they were
building Section 95 homeslow-income household budget for
four homes and kind of convincedthem to really build to the
highest efficiency as possiblebecause they hadn't planned on
it.
But we helped pay for theconsultants to work with them to
(46:21):
build that standard home into areally efficient home.
Well, they built to step codefive and step code is like five,
it's like the most.
It's incredibly.
You could almost heat that homewith a hairdryer.
I'm exaggerating, but it'sreally airtight, you know, like
(46:41):
one and a half air changes perhour, Really comfortable.
So they built four homes inbetween 20, again because of
COVID things but between 2020and 2022, they finished it.
They're so thrilled with thosehomes they just built.
Last year they built four more,Again Section 95.
(47:01):
So they're under really tightbudget constraints and they're
still building these reallyefficient homes.
Constraint budget, budgetconstraints and you're still
building these really efficienthomes by careful planning and
thought.
You know thinking about thisvery thoughtfully before they
start building and so because itcosts a lot more to do the
renovation afterwards.
But if you can actually buildit in from the beginning, it
doesn't cost that much more.
And certainly yakanuki said ourrebates help pay for any
(47:24):
additional costs that came tobuild that home from a standard
building code to a step codefive.
That's fantastic, yeah, andthey're beautiful homes.
By the way, they're not hugehomes If I had my camera I could
show you photos, but they'rebeautiful homes and they now
have eight families living inthese homes, or or some some
(47:45):
singles, and everyone is justsort of thrilled with how the
homes are operating and theirutility bills are like a
fraction of other nearby homeswhich is really important,
because I don't know if manypeople understand that so many
first nations homes were neverbuilt to any because they don't
have to follow the bc buildingcode.
Aaron Pete (48:05):
That's right, because're on reserve, so
they're on federal land, so theydon't have to follow that code.
So often these homescontractors would come in, build
to a subpar standard, save somemoney and then move on, and so
this is kind of the first timefor so many that the homes that
are being built on reserve arebeing built not only to code but
in some cases actually betterthan the standard code, which is
(48:27):
exciting.
And when we talk aboutreconciliation, these are the
types of pieces that reallystand out to me that we are
moving in the right direction.
I had the opportunity tointerview David Suzuki and he
had, I would say, just a verygrim perspective on where we are
and where we're going.
But then I look at what Fortisis doing and what BC Hydro is
doing and what the goals are andwhat the stated goals are and
(48:50):
how they're following through onthem, and it just it gives me
much more hope, because there'sa personal reason for a person
to want to do this.
So you wake up and you go.
Why would I want to be energyefficient?
And it's because I will savemoney.
I can put that money towards myfamily, I can put that money
towards improving my own life.
But then not only am I doingthat, then it's actually going
to reduce the amount of energywe're pulling from the earth or
(49:13):
the amount of impact we'rehaving on rivers and waterways,
because the way BC Hydro has towork, those things are impacted.
So we're going to do that in abetter way and then we're
creating a cleaner planet andwe're also making sure
vulnerable populations are alsohaving higher quality life.
And when I started this, one ofmy favorite quotes was like try
(49:33):
and live your life in a waythat's good for you, good for
your family, good for yourcommunity, and then try and do
that in a way that's not goodfor you just today, but for a
year and for 10 years and forseven generations.
And when you try and live yourlife based on that, it really
narrows the direction you'regoing to move in.
(49:55):
Because if you're going to doall of those things, it's
actually much more challengingthan I think people realize and
the work that you're doing andthat Fortis is doing and other
organizations to bring downthose energy efficiency costs is
a statement on the trajectory.
I feel like we're going and Ithink that's a positive
direction.
Carol Suhan (50:12):
Yeah, I'd like to think so as well, because, I
mean again, I have mentioned acouple of times making your home
more comfortable.
But that is even though we'rekind of working on it from the
global kind of perspectiveultimately at the end of the day
for those families it is makingtheir home more comfortable and
healthier.
I know you mentioned before Imean again, there's all kinds of
(50:34):
research that shows that a cold, damp house not only does it
really uncomfortable therespiratory issues and health
issues.
So again, energy efficiency notonly will make your home more
comfortable and reduce yourutility bills but potentially
could even improve your healthbecause you'll have a healthier
(50:55):
air, you won't have the moldissues, you know et cetera.
Aaron Pete (50:59):
It's an excellent point because when I started on
council in 2022, because when Istarted on council in 2022, we
went into one person's home andthey were like my child has
severe asthma, is having a lotof health issues I don't want to
get it wrong, but it wassomething like had to have their
liver checked out and washaving because there was so much
mold and mildew in the roof,because that roof was never
(51:21):
built properly and it was 40years old.
And so he was like are you guysgoing to fix this?
You're the third person in 20years to come in and say you're
going to fix my home.
Are you actually going to fixit?
And it's rewarding to have thatcome to a close, but, to your
point, like you'll have healthissues and not even realize that
the connection between yourhome and how you're sleeping and
and the room you're in andenergy yeah, and and how energy
(51:44):
is used in your home.
Carol Suhan (51:45):
Yeah, so I'll do one little extra plug.
And again, this is the, thepeer partners and indigenous
energy efficiency and resiliencepeer.
And just so you know, our, ouradvisory committee, really they
chose that name and theyabsolutely wanted to have the
resilience at the end, becauseit's not only about energy
efficiency, it's about havingresilient homes.
But I I'm sorry I digress, butPURE, that program also will
(52:11):
provide funding, support forhealth and safety improvements
as well, whatever is related toenergy efficiency improvements.
So, whether it's buildingenvelope, you know if you're
having to, you know the homethat you just spoke about.
You know all of that oldinsulation would have to be
pulled out, the home would haveto be cleaned, et cetera, and
then we provide funding to dothat and then, of course,
(52:33):
provide the funding to have thathome re-insulated properly.
Aaron Pete (52:37):
Right, the last question that I have for you is
what inspired you to take onthis work.
Carol Suhan (52:44):
Boy, kind of by accident.
So I'm not sure if I was soinspired, but I grew up in the
North.
I live right next near theBeaver I'm not even sure Beaver
Indian Band Reserve.
We did not have electricity, wedid not have running water.
It's really cold, and so Ithink I know, even though I've
(53:11):
lived, make the difference inpeople's lives.
I don't know, I can't imaginehow fortunate I have been to
(53:35):
come into a role that allows meto try and help make some of
these problems better.
You know, yeah, I just feel sohonored.
Aaron Pete (53:46):
I really love that.
How can people learn more andstart to take some action?
Where would they go?
Carol Suhan (53:53):
You know, obviously , I mean from an Indigenous
community perspective.
I would talk to your housingteam, talk to your housing
manager.
I know they may hate me forsaying that because it puts more
work on their plate.
I think most folks, though.
Now I mean, like I say, youknow, I think every housing
(54:15):
manager across British Columbiais so dedicated and passionate
and I think most of themprobably already know about, you
know, the funding, support andthe things that need to be done.
But again, if they haven't hadthe capacity to do that, you
know anyone listening to thisprogram can say, well, there's a
(54:35):
new program and it does helpwith capacity funding as well.
So, yeah, start talking to yourhousing manager and hopefully,
through them, you know, we canhelp support them.
And you know, build, you know aplan, whether it's just for one
home at a time, like I can justmention some communities here in
the Fraser Valley that can Imention a name?
(54:57):
Absolutely.
I mean Nancy Murphy from SwallyNation.
Like she's just brilliant, butshe's literally been doing like
two homes at a time for the lastfive years and like, literally
so she keeps it very manageable.
But she says, you know, andwhen I get the rebates from the
utilities.
I use that money to go and workon the next house, and so,
(55:19):
whether it's a small projectlike that and you just you know,
chip at it one home at a time,or, you know, like you know, the
community-wide project like Italked about at Soyuz.
Aaron Pete (55:29):
And for everyday British Columbians?
Where would they go?
Carol Suhan (55:33):
I would say I would recommend well, gosh, you can
do anything but go to thewebsite, go to fortisbccom, go
under rebates and you can seekind of a pathway and maybe I'm
getting ahead of myself, butthat's very specifically if
you're wanting to makeefficiency improvements to your
(55:55):
home.
But you'll see that there'srebates available there again
for you know, any kind ofimprovements that you're making
on your home.
You can also go online to myaccount and they give you some
kinds of tips and ideas of howto get started or even if you
don't have the budget to work onit, but at least even the
things that you can do in yourhome.
(56:16):
Like I didn't know this, but ifyou have baseboard heating or
if you have a bench against awall, don't put your sofa over
those vents or in front of thatbaseboard heating, because it's
meant to be open to actuallycreate circulation in your home.
And if you don't and I can usemy own example in a previous
(56:37):
home you can have frost on thewall behind the sofa because you
don't have the proper heatcirculating in your house.
So anyway, if you go to theFortisBC website you'll get all
kinds of information like thatwe can be just like no cost and
make a difference in comfort andyour utility bills.
Aaron Pete (56:59):
Amazing Carol.
Thank you so much for beingwilling to join us today.
It's been an absolute privilegeto learn so much more from you.
Carol Suhan (57:05):
Oh well, thank you for the opportunity and I hope
well, I hope we have lots offolks listening and they can
take advantage of the programsand again make homes better.
Aaron Pete (57:17):
Beautiful.
I am sure they will Thank you.
I have to say, very proud of working for Fortis and
really delivering a vitalservice for everybody in the
province.
Aaron Pete (00:15):
But could we start at the beginning?
What is FortisBC?
Carol Suhan (00:18):
Energy efficiency not only will make your home
more comfortable, reduce yourutility bills, but potentially
could even improve your health.
Aaron Pete (00:25):
And what does that look like in people's homes when
they're getting that Fortisbill?
What does that really mean?
Carol Suhan (00:30):
You could have a new furnace and you could have
solar and you could have airconditioning, but if it's that
air is just leaking in and outof your house?
Aaron Pete (00:36):
Why is it so important that you have BC,
hydro and Fortis BC?
What was the logic behindmaking sure that you have
different options?
Carol Suhan (00:44):
Homes were saving on average.
Minimum was like $200 and $300a year to $3,000, $4,000 a year.
Having that heat, having thatenergy in people's homes, it's
not even a matter of comfort,it's a matter of safety.
Aaron Pete (01:12):
Carol, thank you so much for being willing to join
us today.
Would you mind first brieflyintroducing yourself?
Carol Suhan (01:17):
I'm Carol Suhan.
I work for FortisBC in theEnergy and Conservation Group,
and over the last seven-ishyears I've been working almost
exclusively with Indigenouscommunities, again really trying
to improve energy efficiency inhomes and in community
buildings.
The idea, of course, is to makehomes more comfortable, reduce
(01:39):
utility costs, utility bills,and obviously climate change is
a part of that as well.
Aaron Pete (01:45):
Fantastic.
I'm very excited to be doingthis series and to get to know
individuals like yourself,because I personally feel like
Fortis serves so many homes andit's such an important piece of
our day-to-day lives.
Somewhat we take that forgranted and somewhat.
We need more education onunderstanding what Fortis is,
how it serves communities andhow it plays a role in making
(02:06):
sure that we're safe in thewinter and that we have the heat
and support we need throughoutthose seasons.
But could we start at thebeginning?
What is Fortis BC?
Carol Suhan (02:16):
Well, fortis BC actually is like two companies.
One is an electricity supply ordistribution, and we actually
produce our own electricitythrough the Kootenays and the
Okanagan, and then, of course, anatural gas distribution
company that services probably95% of the province of British
(02:39):
Columbia, from Fort Nelson rightdown to Vancouver and good
parts of Vancouver Island aswell.
Aaron Pete (02:47):
And what does that look like in people's homes when
they're getting that forestbill?
What does that really mean?
Carol Suhan (02:53):
Well, it means that you're connected, you have gas
heating in your home and,interestingly enough, a lot of
folks don't realize that theyactually do have gas heating in
their home.
They have a furnace, it works,but yeah, so that's heating,
(03:15):
which, by the way, does accountfor about 50% to 65% of your
energy bill is actually to heatyour home.
So it's a big.
I think it's a really importantpart of you know how you make
your home comfortable and safe.
Aaron Pete (03:34):
Yeah, so I'm just thinking you mentioned furnace.
I also think I just got a hotwater on demand system as well
that also uses gas, and I'm justinterested in understanding
that in comparison to hydro.
Carol Suhan (03:48):
Okay, and actually you mentioned hot water, which
is also really important interms of energy efficiency
because it too uses between Idon't know, 15 and 20% of all of
the energy use in your homewould be for hot water.
So now you're sort of 50 to 80%for space and water heating In
comparison with electricity.
(04:09):
I mean, obviously hydroprovides, it can provide space
heating, it can provide hotwater.
Generally speaking, the naturalgas system is more affordable
to operate and I know forIndigenous communities,
particularly when you get intomore remote areas, you don't,
(04:30):
electricity can be outages andthere can be outages for days at
a time.
You probably have experiencedthat.
So you know here's a way of youknow at least maintaining, you
know, more comfort in your homesand having heat, or even though
your furnace might not work,but you can have a gas fireplace
(04:50):
backup or whatever.
So I think it's a really goodfit for Indigenous communities,
particularly who have extendedoutages in more remote rural
areas.
Aaron Pete (05:02):
Can you walk us through that?
Why is it so important that youhave BC, hydro and FortisBC?
What was the logic behindmaking sure that you have
different options?
Carol Suhan (05:14):
This would be obviously developed over the
last number of decades.
But and actually it's amisconception I think a lot of
people don't realize how muchenergy that the gas system
provides to the province.
We think about electricity, wethink about turning lights on or
(05:36):
turning them off or turningyour computers off, but really,
as I just mentioned before, youknow, when you consider that 50
to 80% of a building's energyuse is space and water heating,
yeah, space and water heating isa really important part, and so
(05:57):
, as the energy system was builtout over, you know, the last 50
, 60 years, gas was very muchmeant to be space and water
heating and particularly in thecoldest days of the year, like
Fortis BC will provide more thantwo times energy than all the
electricity systems combined.
(06:17):
So Fortis BC, electric, bcHydro but yeah, on those coldest
days of the year, the gassystem is imperative, I think,
because I know the electricalsystem couldn't possibly keep
all of our homes at this pointin time.
Anyway, keep our homescomfortable and not even
(06:37):
comfortable, safe what?
Aaron Pete (06:40):
does that mean to you to be an employee that has
the opportunity to make thatimpact?
Again, I think most people justexpect their home to be heated,
but if you look back 200 years,you were completely reliant on
a fireplace or some sort ofsystem like that.
Now we somewhat take that forgranted and I don't think that's
necessarily a bad thing, butthere's so many people working
(07:02):
behind the scenes to make sureyou never even think about
turning up your thermostat andheating up your home, and I
think it's important that weunderstand the work that goes
into that.
Carol Suhan (07:12):
I have to say I guess I'm very proud of working
for Fortis and really deliveringa vital service for everybody
in the province.
And I also know that mycolleagues take this I mean
having resilient, making surethat the heating system or,
(07:35):
again, if it's electricity,everything works and works
safely and on time, and all thetime I mean they take that work
very, very seriously.
I have been in the operationscenters.
When we bring a heat wave, forexample, and, like you know,
alarms are going off and peopleare scrambling to make sure that
(07:57):
there's enough electricity Ithink it happens to be
electricity in this case, butthat to meet the air
conditioning needs.
And you know so folks, thisfolks you talk about in the
background, there's a ton ofwork that goes on in the
background that, yeah, we neverknow about.
It's just you flip on theswitch, you turn up your heat
and it works.
(08:17):
But yeah, I think, gosh, we havejust short of 3,000 employees
across the province and you knowwhether we're working of 3,000
employees across the provinceand you know whether we're
working in communities, like youknow, for example, I was in
Prince George just, you know, ashort time ago, and up in the
north, and you know there'sfolks working in those
communities to make sure thatthe gas is working.
Or again, I talked about beingin.
(08:39):
You know that electricityservice territory people working
making sure that we have enoughelectricity to meet that demand
.
And you know that electricityservice territory people working
making sure that we have enoughelectricity to meet that demand
.
And you know, and actuallybuying it on the market and
doing it live and there's somuch stuff that goes on in the
background.
Aaron Pete (08:51):
I had the opportunity to tour I believe
it's called the Tilbury site andone of the things that one of
the tour guides had explainedwas I forget what year it was,
but it was during an incrediblecold spell that we had, where it
was hitting minus 30, minus 28for a period of time.
That put incredible strain onthe system because everybody had
(09:13):
their heating cranked and thesystem had never kind of been
prepared for such an event forsuch a long period of time.
Event for such a long period oftime, and again, when you don't
know about those things, it'sso humbling to realize the
amount of work that goes on totry and prepare for those
circumstances, and I knowthere's plans to begin to
address that and make sure thatwe're in a better system the
(09:35):
next time a cold spell comes.
But just knowing that so manypeople are doing work and we
don't get the opportunity toappreciate that just humbles me.
Carol Suhan (09:44):
Yeah, I think you're talking about January
2023.
I know I was minus 40 and minus50 in parts of the country or
province rather, and it lastedfor quite a long time.
And yeah, both the electricitysystems more so, but the gas
systems, again, we're sort ofmaxing out and this had never
(10:06):
been experienced before and Idon't know.
I'm sure you heard aboutAlberta, that you know they were
this close.
Their electricity system wasthis close to collapsing because
it was so cold and in thatparticular case, I think, the
gas system, they almostdelivered nine times more energy
.
And again, you know well, butwhen it's minus 35, minus 40,
(10:31):
really you only have four orfive hours in your home before
you start to freeze.
So having that heat, havingthat energy in people's homes is
it's not even a matter ofcomfort, it's a matter of safety
.
Yeah, I'm getting goosebumpsjust talking about that.
Aaron Pete (10:49):
Yeah, and that's exactly when I did that tour.
I was like I'd be veryinterested in having this
conversation because it'ssomething that, had it happened,
had it gone over that edge,we'd be a very humbled province,
or Alberta would be a veryhumbled province of the
circumstances, and people arevery vulnerable and there's
statistics out there that morepeople pass away due to the
(11:11):
coldness than due to the heat.
Carol Suhan (11:14):
Yes, not many folks know that.
Aaron Pete (11:17):
And so it's an important piece that I don't
know if we always appreciate,and then learning pieces as
we'll get into when we talk moreabout how we prepare for being
energy educated and beinginformed on those pieces that,
like hot water on demand systemsare better for the environment
than having a hot water tankthat's constantly heating when
you're not home and when you'renot using it, and and that
(11:38):
that's a better step.
Carol Suhan (11:40):
oh boy well I'm and I've worked for in the energy
conservation area and and ofcourse, I think just you know
conservation and efficiency iscritical.
You know if we're, you knowtalking about climate change,
but you know, addressing andtrying to decarbonize our energy
system, but you know theprobably I mean the most
(12:02):
cost-effective and it just makessense, like on the global scale
, but also on the individualscale.
You know it's making ourbuildings more energy efficient
so that you use less energy,which means you, you know, emit
less carbon and whether you know, you know whether that's more
insulation in your home or newwindows and doors, or a new
(12:25):
heating system or your new hotwater tank.
All of those things go togetherand you can make significant
decreases in consumption, orenergy consumption and emissions
by just making our buildingsmuch energy efficient.
(12:45):
By just making our buildingsmuch energy efficient and I know
we go historically, I think,because energy was so
inexpensive and it was so takenfor granted that we didn't build
buildings really well and sonow we're having to go back and
do it afterwards but it can makea huge, huge difference.
Aaron Pete (12:58):
The other piece I wanted to ask about and it's
just a reflection for myself inregards to the differences
between BC Hydro and Fortis andthe type of energy that's
produced.
I had a heating expert come inand we were working on the hot
water tank and one piece that Ifound so interesting because we
installed a washer dryer for mymom and they came in and they
(13:22):
were like it probably makessense to do a gas dryer because
you're using a lot ofelectricity right now, so this
will kind of balance it out.
You're not using that much gas.
And he was like one of thebenefits of that is that you get
a clean dry, that you don't getthe static electricity, and I
just I found that reallyinteresting to learn about some
of the differences betweenelectric heat and gas heat,
(13:42):
because you don't produce thatand then when you're heating
your home you'll feel that.
He described it as a warm hugwhen you have your gas on,
versus like BC Hydro's heatwhich doesn't give off that same
surrounding warmth.
Carol Suhan (13:57):
Oh, yeah, yeah, that is yeah.
I think there's some realadvantages to both like to gas
heat or again.
That said, I think you knowthis is happening across the
province and I know maybe I'mgoing a little bit sideways here
(14:20):
, but in some ways I think theperfect combination is sort of a
dual fuel heating system, andthey've been around now for well
, they've been around forprobably more than a decade, but
only a couple of years inBritish Columbia.
But it's a combined connected,you know, heat pump which has
electricity which would provideheat in the sort of shoulder
(14:40):
seasons, and cooling in thesummer, which is becoming more
and more important.
But then, when we're talkingabout these colder days of the
year, the system automaticallygoes back into gas.
So it keeps your billsaffordable and you do get the
warm hug because gas can providethat instant kind of heat very
(15:04):
quickly versus taking a longertime.
And I think, well, I'll justmention this.
But this is I give them kudosbecause I just think they've
been doing fantastic work.
But Adams Lake, first Nation inthe Shuswap I think it was in
2019, you know, six years ago inthe Shuswap, I think it was in
2019, you know, six years ago, Ithink they were one of the very
(15:26):
first communities, if not evenyou know organized larger, you
know community areas.
They installed five dual-fuelheating systems and they loved
them so much that they've nowgot this.
You know informal policy thatall of the renovations and all
their new construction all havedual-fuel heating systems and
anyway.
So in some ways I think that'skind of the optimal approach.
(15:47):
You know, the heat pump isreally efficient for cooling and
working when it's not too coldand then when it gets cold you
have, you know, that gas heatwhich in your own personal home
again makes you more comfortable.
It keeps your bills moreaffordable.
But again, if we look at themore global, provincial scale,
(16:10):
we're reducing emissions for agood chunk of the year.
Aaron Pete (16:13):
When we think of BC Hydro it's so easy to think of a
hydroelectric dam.
It's easy to symbolicallyunderstand what hydro does.
It's harder for gas.
Would you mind explaining to uswhat the gas is?
Just some of those processes.
What is actually heating thehome?
How does that process work?
Carol Suhan (16:32):
Well, it is a gas that of course is extracted and
just by way of note, this is notmy field of expertise, so I'll
try and give it my best here butof course the gas is extracted,
almost all of it, from NorthernBC or Alberta, for the southern
part of British Columbia we doget most of our gas from Alberta
(16:55):
and Saskatchewan through thesouthern crossing, but more
central British Columbia comesfrom the north.
It is, you know, cleaned andthen piped up.
It brings into our home.
It is our furnaces, our waterheaters, the dryer you mentioned
before.
They do have combustionequipment in your home that of
(17:15):
course uses that gas to createheat and that is then pumped
through your home.
It is, you know, I think it's avery kind of elemental kind of
heating system.
But of course now the heatingsystems now are so much more
efficient that you know weactually before they used to be
like in the 50, 60% efficientrange and like now we're all
(17:38):
looking at 97% plus and then ifyou have the dual fuel system,
like a couple hundred percent.
But either way, I'm gettinginto detail here.
Aaron Pete (17:48):
What does that mean, though?
What does it mean to be energyefficient in percentages?
Carol Suhan (17:55):
Okay.
Well, all of the energy that isconsumed becomes heat.
Okay, and actually if you go toa heat pump, it can be 200% to
300% efficient.
Because if you're using achemical, like a refrigerator,
you know it's in your home butit uses a chemical that
circulates and it can turn coolair or take air out of your home
(18:19):
and make it cold, and you knowthat's how your refrigerator
works.
A heat pump kind of works theopposite way it takes heat out
of the air, even when it's quitecool, and heats your home,
again using that chemicalprocess, you know, and it's all
closed tube.
So again, this combinationsystem of using heat pumps and,
(18:43):
you know, gas heating, I thinkjust makes really good sense,
right.
Aaron Pete (18:51):
I'm interested to understand how you work with BC
Hydro.
Is there a strong relationshipthere?
What does that process looklike?
Are you two giant competitorsagainst each other?
Carol Suhan (19:01):
Not at all.
Yeah, especially working withIndigenous communities.
We work really closely with BCHydro and, as a matter of fact,
but we now have a joint programessentially to provide funding,
(19:26):
support for Indigenouscommunities to improve housing
and their buildings in terms ofenergy efficiency.
So I think we work reallyclosely and again, I think that
speaks to again how the systemswork together and you know,
because we need both electricity, but again that gas makes such
a, you know, a contribution inmaking sure that you know,
(19:50):
heating your home continues tobe safe, affordable and more
comfortable.
Aaron Pete (19:58):
So there's also a goal to reach 15 percent
renewable gas in the system by2030.
Do you know what that means?
Carol Suhan (20:06):
I talked a lot about efficiency and how really
we want to make people's homesand community buildings way more
energy efficient.
So you use less gas, which meansthere's less carbon—less—
carbon, fewer carbon emissions,but at the same time we want to
just be decarbonizing the gasthat we do use to heat homes.
(20:29):
So that is a combination ofrenewable natural gas, which is,
you know, which is kind of avery cool product, because we
actually harvest the methanethat's, you know, off from
landfills and sewage treatmentplants and you know agricultural
, like cows manure, you know.
So we harvest that methane andput it into our gas system and,
(20:53):
of course, it's burned inpeople's homes.
We also are working on howhydrogen can be injected into
our system.
Again, you know, a low carbonfuel that reduces the carbon of
all the gas that's going intoeveryone's homes.
So that's where that kind of15% comes plan to have 15% less
(21:21):
carbon in our delivery systemand through, yeah, that people
automatically, whether they knowit or not, actually are
emitting lower greenhouse gasemissions, and that's probably
one of the coolest things tolearn is that over time, we've
become more and more energyefficient without knowing it.
Aaron Pete (21:42):
That like.
From my understanding, one ofthe biggest global challenges is
people burning garbage, ispeople still using lumber and
timber to try and heat theirhomes or heat around the world
heat their homes and that we'vemanaged to move in the right
direction over a very longperiod of time.
So our impact has continued toreduce on the environment and on
(22:07):
ecosystems than where we wouldhave been if we were all using
like firewood still today.
Carol Suhan (22:13):
Yeah, so not only from an energy consumption
perspective, but also just airquality, exactly.
Aaron Pete (22:20):
Yeah, yeah.
Can you tell me what doesenergy literacy mean?
Carol Suhan (22:26):
Well, energy literacy, I think, is really
important because we really,again, if we're talking about
climate change, how do we makeimprovements if we don't
understand how we use energy?
And that's both on a provincial, federal, global scale or in
our homes.
And I have been talking aboutefficiency.
(22:47):
But, again, if you want to makeimprovements, I'm studying,
first of all, how is your homeheated, and I come across lots
of folks who don't know I have afurnace, who don't know I have
a furnace.
I don't know, but just you know.
So, understanding that, and thenalso understanding how much
(23:08):
energy is used to heat your homeor to heat your water, and then
you wait a second and go okay,I'm really good about turning
the computer off when I'm notusing it, but I don't.
I'm not really good aboutturning the thermostat down when
I leave or overnight.
But now I just realized, wow,three quarters of all the energy
I use in my home is to heat myhome or and water.
(23:29):
Okay, when I'm, when I'm nothome, I'm turning the thermostat
down.
So that's a you know, that's areal basic place to start.
And then, of course, once youknow that you can start building
, you know, incrementally, youknow, either, on making your
home more energy efficient, or Iguess that's kind of it, or
(23:52):
even some behavior things thatyou can do to again use, you
know, less energy.
What are some?
Aaron Pete (23:57):
energy myths or some common myths that you hear
about.
The two that just come to mymind is one solar panels.
When they had first come out,were very maybe not in the place
they needed to be.
So some of our communitymembers, as we've started to
bring in solar panels, have beenlike, I hear, they don't really
work that well.
And then we're like, actuallythe technology's improved quite
(24:19):
a bit and so we're in adifferent place with solar
panels.
And then the other one is heatpumps.
Heat pumps when they startedweren't that popular and we have
some people in our communitywho have early heat pumps and
they're like, oh, they don'twork that well and they've come
so far.
So what are some other mythsthat you've heard?
Carol Suhan (24:36):
Well, I think there are a lot of myths about solar,
but actually I'll just tell youa little story.
I was in Seattle and it was theenergy manager in the city of
Seattle.
He said when I retire, I'mgoing to go into the fake solar
panel business.
(24:57):
I go what?
What are you talking about?
Anyway, he was saying likeevery time someone makes an
energy efficiency improvement intheir house, so they put in
more insulation or they put inbetter windows and doors, they
they automatically get two solarpanels so they can put on the
roof and show the world what agood job that they're doing,
right?
(25:18):
Anyway, I just think it's areally, because I think so many
people think, oh, solar it'senergy efficiency.
It's not.
It's adding more energy, butit's not energy efficiency.
It's not.
You know, we can change out theheating system, we can add
solar, but if our homes arestill leaky, you know you still
have cold air, you know, leakingin into your house in the
(25:40):
wintertime or your heat, or evensummertime when it's really hot
, and you can't, you don't even.
But if that air is just leakingin and out of your house, that
has much less of an influencethan if you had just made your
home more energy efficient, moreairtight in the first place, so
(26:09):
yeah, I'm curious because myunderstanding is that also radon
is a concern to so many and solike.
Aaron Pete (26:17):
It seems like there's this dichotomy between
sealing your home and then I'veheard about radon, which is like
you don't want to seal it toomuch or you could end up having
high amounts of radon.
So is that something you'vethought about at all?
Carol Suhan (26:30):
Yeah, it is for sure we really do want people's
homes to be as airtight aspossible and like literally only
have like one and a half airchanges per hour, because, like
my home anyway, like seven,eight hour air changes per hour
like you're heating the outside.
But to your point about radon,if you're living in an area with
high radon, I mean first of allyou can test your home to see
(26:52):
how much radon isn't thatactually is being emitted into
the atmosphere in your home andsee how much radon actually is
being emitted into theatmosphere in your home and if
it's quite high and you want tomake energy efficiency
improvements, please do that.
But there are radon mitigationefforts which you actually get
a—again.
I'm not the technical person,but they actually put a pipe
through your crawl space or yourbasement and then they pull it
(27:14):
up into the environment so itnever gets into your home at all
, and so that's certainly all ofthe new construction where you
need very airtight homes thatare very energy efficient and
very inexpensive to operate.
They all have.
Well, at least in areas thathave radon, they all are
required to have radonmitigation systems installed.
Aaron Pete (27:34):
Can you say that again?
One and a half air changes perhour.
What does that mean?
Carol Suhan (27:39):
Okay, Sorry, that is a technical measurement that
we use, but it's to find out howenergy efficient your home is.
So energy evaluators will doblower door tests and they
literally put on a big fan onyour front door and they create
(28:00):
enough pressure reverse pressure, that would be the equivalent
of 100-kilometer winds at threesides of your house to see how
windy your house is or how— andthe most efficient homes now are
, you know, in that, less thanone or one and a half air
changes per hour, and homes likemy home that was built in the
(28:21):
early 1990s.
Well, we have made a lot ofimprovements in our home, but if
they hadn't, we'd probably havenine, 10 air changes per hour.
Like yeah.
So if you think about that,you're heating your home with
expensive energy and you'relosing all of that heat in your
house 10 times in one hour.
Aaron Pete (28:40):
And so is that the impetus to help people start to
take some of these steps,because not only is it good for
their wallet, for their expenses, but it's also reducing the
pressure on these systems.
It sounds like it's reducingthe amount of energy we need to
pull from the earth, and so isthat some of the logic behind
trying to become more energyefficient.
Carol Suhan (29:01):
Yes.
So I mean you can talk aboutthe global scale, about climate
change and carbon emissionreductions, but we also talk
about this personal, in our ownhomes, that if we can make our
homes more airtight, add moreinsulation, maybe change out the
heating system, maybe not, butI'll just okay.
(29:24):
My own home, um, this would be15 ish years ago 14 years ago,
because my home was built in the1990s, didn't?
We were not required to put anyinsulation in the crawl space,
didn't need need to, it wasn'tpart of the building code.
Well, but yeah, you lose almosthalf of your energy from your
crawl space or your basement andyour attic.
(29:45):
So if they aren't insulated,well, like you're, just you know
your warm air is just seepingout of your house.
So in our own case, weinsulated the crawl space and we
changed out our furnace because, again in 1990-ish or whatever,
the furnace was probably 50%efficient.
I think the energy evaluatorsaid it was kind of like taking
a Hummer, this great big hulkingfurnace in the corner of our
(30:08):
house, but taking a Hummer anddriving to the corner store,
like, you're going to use a lotof fuel.
Anyway, we changed out to anenergy-efficient furnace, we
insulated the crawl space andtogether that was, you know.
I mean there were rebates aswell, like it was, I don't know,
$5,000, $6,000.
Our gas bill dropped by halfand I know it was extraordinary.
(30:31):
It was extraordinary and youknow, since that time we've done
other energy efficiencyimprovements and since that time
we've done other energyefficiency improvements We've
added more insulation in ourattic, we got a new hot water
tank that's on demand, and newwindows and doors and again I
think we've dropped ourconsumption again by another
half or quarter.
(30:52):
So, even though the costs ofenergy have increased a lot over
the last 15 years and theyprobably still will in the
future, our energy bills areless than they were in 2000.
So anyway, I just tell thatstory.
That's my own personal story,but I got to feel it, experience
(31:12):
it, not only in how much ourutility bills dropped but also
the comfort of the house, rightLike I'm comfortable wearing
socks in the wintertime and Idon't have cold air blowing in
my face when I lay in bed, whichwas the case before.
We changed out the windows,because our bedroom faces the
northeast and you get the windfrom the north.
(31:32):
Anyway, I'm sorry, that's myown personal story, but I guess
it's an example, though you knowhow it can make huge
differences, like I'll use theSoyuz Indian Band as an example
and I just this community hasdone some wonderful things, but
in 2018, 2017, you know, theyjust again, folks were just
(31:54):
complaining about their high,high utility bills, and they
often did have really highutility bills.
And so what can we do?
I know we had talked a littlebit about behavior, but, again,
if your house is really leaky,if you've got 10 air changes per
hour, it's just going to be,it's going to, it's always going
(32:16):
to.
Even if you change out yourheating system to a more
efficient system, it's stillgoing to be really expensive.
So the community decided, andwe met and we chatted about this
a number of times, but we, andthen FortisBC, helped support
this, but they got energyevaluations done for all the
homes that were built before2010.
Right, all the homes that werebuilt before 2010.
(32:38):
Right.
And then they made a list ofyou know, this home was in
pretty good shape.
Oh gee, maybe we can put somemore insulation in the attic.
Oh my gosh, this home needseverything.
It needs new windows and doors,it needs more insulation.
And then, of course, theycreated a priority list of what
needed to be done.
(32:58):
They applied for funding fromIndigenous Services Canada and,
of course, fortis had rebatesand other funding support.
They renovated over the nexttwo years and a half during
COVID, but they did this for 162homes I think it was originally
149, but they actually had alittle bit of budget left over
(33:18):
if they could do more homes.
And it cost other than forthemselves to really organize
themselves.
And you know, and yes, they hadto get all the contractors to
do more insulation and thewindows et cetera.
But you know they got all thefunding from the combination
between ISK and FortisBC to dothat and I know the project
(33:40):
manager working on that said.
You know homes were saving onaverage.
A minimum was like $200 and$300 a year to $3,000, $4,000 a
year.
So yeah, I think it's one of myfavorite projects to talk about
.
Aaron Pete (33:59):
Can we briefly go through?
I know we've mentioned quite afew of them, but what does
energy efficiency upgrades looklike?
If somebody's hearing this andthey're like I want to take
action, I want to start toexperience some of these savings
.
What are those things?
Carol Suhan (34:14):
I mean you can kind of just say, well, gee,
downstairs, there's noinsulation.
I think we need to getinsulation down there.
But I really do recommend, ifyou can get an energy evaluation
, because these are the energyevaluators that do the blower
door tests, where they createthe 100-kilometer-an-hour winds
in your house or the outside ofyour house, and they can really
(34:40):
tell you really quickly andeasily oh my gosh, you have no
insulation in this wall at all,or there's, you know, a big
gaping around that fireplace orthose windows.
There's big gaping holes andthe cold air is just coming in.
And they'll take pictures, youknow, with the infrared camera
so you can see where the coldair is coming in.
So but anyway, and then theygive you a map or a a plan of
(35:04):
what you might want to do, andusually the most, if cost the
lowest cost first, and thengoing to the, you know, to make
your home gradually over time,because you you might want to do
it all at one time, but you may.
In my own case we've done itover the last 15 years, you know
, one at a time, but almostalways it's air sealing first.
So if you've got, you know,drafts around your windows or
(35:26):
doors.
You know, get your caulking gunout, that costs you 15 bucks.
That can make a big difference.
And then it's insulation andthat might cost you maybe a
thousand ish dollars but make ahuge difference.
But by okay, I'm now, I'm gonnago, I'm gonna go into, you know
, um, fortis and bc, hydro, um,depending on your heating source
or if you have wood or propane,because a lot of indigenous
(35:49):
communities do have woodenpropane heat.
Uh, the province is a clean bcprogram, the three program.
We all provide funding supportthat will probably pay for very
close to 100% of insulationinvestment and similarly
anywhere from oh, and we'll payfor close to 100%, depending on
(36:11):
where you are, but for theenergy evaluation.
So that energy evaluation isalmost it'll be a very small
investment.
I think They'll make therecommendations of what you
should be doing and then you cando it over time.
And again, the utilities, cleanBC we provide funding support
(36:34):
for all that work along the way,whether it is like insulation,
which I tell you is about, wecover about 90% of the cost to
heating systems, again around80%, like dual-fuel heating
system, for example, with$15,000 rebate, and so anyway,
that's a and you can do that asan individual.
(36:56):
And now, of course, I've justtalked about these rebates for
Indigenous communitiesspecifically, which means you
would have to work with yourhousing department because they
would help support you throughthat process.
Whether it's you as anindividual, you know, if you are
a CP like a homeowner or ifyou're a renter, are a cp like a
(37:21):
homeowner or if you're a renter.
But you know, I think you know,we've the housing teams, you
know, in communities across bcare really recognizing how
important this is and reallywant to help their community
members access and make theirhomes more comfortable, reduce
their utility bills because, ifyou know, that can be a really
high cost for some folks andaffordability is so important.
Aaron Pete (37:39):
That's what we've noticed.
We've brought in heat pumpsinto our community Chulalongkorn
First Nation and the biggestthing that we've gotten so much
feedback on is now I have a heatbill that went from $300 a
month to $75 a month.
Now I have that money that cango towards putting my kids in
sports, that can go towards metaking online classes, that can
go towards putting more food inthe home and taking other steps
(38:01):
in your life.
And for people who, on manyreserves, are relying on social
assistance, that $200 a monthcan be a huge difference to
somebody being able to start totake steps in their life.
And that's been the humblingexperience being on council,
seeing there's these little umblocks and they all build
towards somebody being able tobe self-sufficient and and be
(38:23):
comfortable.
And the challenge on reserve isoften that it's not like the
homeowner.
When I want a home that's notenergy efficient, that isn't
designed properly, that uh hasbad windows, it's that
organizations like likeIndigenous Services Canada gave
an exact amount of money andthey needed to build a house
with that amount of money, andso they had to make cuts and do
(38:44):
things in a more cost-effectiveway.
That resulted in the home notbeing energy efficient, and so
when programs like this comeabout, there's a lot of
opportunity to address theseissues, help the homeowner, but
I mean the the.
The second biggest responsewe've gotten is air conditioning
on reserve, because that's sounusual.
Uh, it's such a cost on theindividual to buy their own air
(39:06):
conditioning system.
Then it's in one room, so it'snot that uh efficient to get to
the whole house, and so thatroom is cool, but the whole
house is boiling.
That's heating up that room,and now we have these systems
that are going along the sidethe furnace system to cool the
whole house, and I sincerelythink that that's an
under-recognized piece.
Of people flourishing withintheir homes is when it's hot,
(39:28):
it's very hard to do anything,it's very hard to use your brain
, it's very hard to want to getmotivated to do anything, and so
you have these communities.
Everybody's got boiling hothomes, and when it's smoky,
you've got homes that are filledwith smoke as well, and those
pieces are starting to allowpeople to really perform,
whether they're in school orwhether or not they just went
for a long run and now they wantto go inside and cool off.
(39:50):
You're really letting peoplekind of perform at their best.
Carol Suhan (39:53):
Yeah.
Well, this is where again I'mgoing to go back to that dual
fuel heating system, because Ithink it's kind of this perfect
combination, because you willget the heating sorry, the
cooling in summer, which ofcourse summer is.
We are getting some moredrastic weather and again it is
through the whole home.
It's very, it's morecomfortable.
It also have good aircirculation and filtration,
(40:16):
although people must make surethat they change their filters
out regularly or else you loseyour efficiency.
But then, of course, on thosecoldest days, or even if it's
just colder period, going intothe gas furnace you get that
really comfortable heat and it'smore affordable.
It's less expensive than if youwere to try and heat your home
(40:39):
um with electricity all winterlong, and I know in this part of
this part of the world it's nottoo too bad.
But certainly if you get alittle bit further north um, gas
is much more affordable.
Aaron Pete (40:51):
Yeah, what are some of the energy efficiency
programs fortis is running?
Can you walk us through some ofthe work you're doing?
Carol Suhan (40:57):
Well, we've got a—boy.
We provide funding support forenergy efficiency improvements
from everything from communitybuildings so health centers, you
know, schools, et cetera toindividual homes, and then we
have three main areas.
So one, individual homes.
And again, this program wasjust launched and I've talked
(41:18):
before about how we're workingcollaboratively with BC Hydro
and CleanBC, the Ministry ofEnergy, and we have integrated
all of our programs together tohave one access point and have
exactly the same funding supportfor whatever initiative it's
got, what community wants to do.
(41:39):
Because we know, and I'm sureyou've had this experience,
housing teams are oftenoverwhelmed and I can't believe
the breadth of work that theymust do.
But you know before you knowyou'd have to.
If you had an electricallyheated home, you'd have to apply
to BC Hydro for funding support.
If you had a gas heated home,you'd apply to FortisBC, which
(42:01):
is, you know, just complicated.
Now we have one access pointand everything is like all the
eligibility requirements,everything are combined.
We also have coaches, because wealso know that, again, as a
housing manager, how do you knowall of this stuff?
How do you like?
(42:22):
What amount of work that theyhave to do is crazy.
So we try to help them alongthe way and you know answer
questions and you know connectthem with contractors if need be
, et cetera.
And then, of course,contractors if need be, etc.
And then of course, um, youapply for the rebate or the
funding support and it comes toyou and then we and you know the
(42:43):
the two utilities and theproblems figured out.
You know who pays in thebackground, so the customer will
never know and that's what Iwas saying before like we're
paying in into the 80, 80% onaverage of different elements,
whether it's that insulation orthe windows and doors, or the
heating systems.
Aaron Pete (43:05):
I'm very glad to hear that.
Carol Suhan (43:07):
Yeah, I think we also now will pay for project
management, because we know ittakes someone's time and effort
to pull it all together.
And, if need be, we also willpay 50% up front, because not
all communities require that butsome do.
They just don't have the cashflow or the capital to actually
(43:29):
start this work.
So, with a good plan, we willprovide the funding up front and
as it moves through, of course,now you've finished working on
these three homes, or four homes, or ten homes, whatever it
might be you get the rebate andthen you can use that rebate to
work on the next five homes orso on.
So I don't know, we think it'sgoing to be.
(43:50):
I think I won't say gamechanger, but we've worked really
closely with we have theIndigenous Program Advisory
Council and they have beenremarkable.
They just provided us somereally good advice and
information for us to help tobuild this program and make it
(44:11):
work as well as possible.
We still have to meet our kindof regulatory requirements, but
again, make it work forindigenous communities.
And you know, again, someonecan, you know, apply to do one
home at a time or only one, justinsulation on that one home, or
you can do you know we now havecommunities that are planning
(44:32):
to do all their homes again thatwere built prior to 2010 or
whatever.
You know, just like I mentionedthe Soyuz, we've got other
communities planning to do thatover the next several years and
I don't know.
I find that incredibly.
You know, rewarding that we canhelp make this happen.
Yeah, and then the last program, which I'm also really proud of
(44:56):
.
You know I'm proud ofeverything.
No, but we again building newhomes.
You know you're saying beforeoften, you know really tight
budgets and how do you get allof this?
We are providing up to, well, Iguess, sort of $32,000 per home
to help make those new homes asenergy efficient as possible.
(45:18):
So that helps.
You know, hire to work with anenergy evaluator.
They can work with you and helpidentify what you need to do
for your builder or yourdesigner, what needs to be done
to make this home really energyefficient.
And then, of course, if you dohave to put in, you know, more
robust windows and doors or moreinsulation, that extra $20,000
(45:39):
or $15,000 can help pay for that.
So okay, and I'll just give onelittle plug here now help pay
for that.
So okay, and I'll just give oneone little plug here now.
But uh, yakanuki and the firstnation in in creston, um lower
kootenai indian band.
This would be again in 2020,2019, again be pre.
See all the things startedpre-covid and that no.
(46:00):
But we convinced them becausethey were going to, they were
building Section 95 homeslow-income household budget for
four homes and kind of convincedthem to really build to the
highest efficiency as possiblebecause they hadn't planned on
it.
But we helped pay for theconsultants to work with them to
(46:21):
build that standard home into areally efficient home.
Well, they built to step codefive and step code is like five,
it's like the most.
It's incredibly.
You could almost heat that homewith a hairdryer.
I'm exaggerating, but it'sreally airtight, you know, like
(46:41):
one and a half air changes perhour, Really comfortable.
So they built four homes inbetween 20, again because of
COVID things but between 2020and 2022, they finished it.
They're so thrilled with thosehomes they just built.
Last year they built four more,Again Section 95.
(47:01):
So they're under really tightbudget constraints and they're
still building these reallyefficient homes.
Constraint budget, budgetconstraints and you're still
building these really efficienthomes by careful planning and
thought.
You know thinking about thisvery thoughtfully before they
start building and so because itcosts a lot more to do the
renovation afterwards.
But if you can actually buildit in from the beginning, it
doesn't cost that much more.
And certainly yakanuki said ourrebates help pay for any
(47:24):
additional costs that came tobuild that home from a standard
building code to a step codefive.
That's fantastic, yeah, andthey're beautiful homes.
By the way, they're not hugehomes If I had my camera I could
show you photos, but they'rebeautiful homes and they now
have eight families living inthese homes, or or some some
(47:45):
singles, and everyone is justsort of thrilled with how the
homes are operating and theirutility bills are like a
fraction of other nearby homeswhich is really important,
because I don't know if manypeople understand that so many
first nations homes were neverbuilt to any because they don't
have to follow the bc buildingcode.
Aaron Pete (48:05):
That's right, because're on reserve, so
they're on federal land, so theydon't have to follow that code.
So often these homescontractors would come in, build
to a subpar standard, save somemoney and then move on, and so
this is kind of the first timefor so many that the homes that
are being built on reserve arebeing built not only to code but
in some cases actually betterthan the standard code, which is
(48:27):
exciting.
And when we talk aboutreconciliation, these are the
types of pieces that reallystand out to me that we are
moving in the right direction.
I had the opportunity tointerview David Suzuki and he
had, I would say, just a verygrim perspective on where we are
and where we're going.
But then I look at what Fortisis doing and what BC Hydro is
doing and what the goals are andwhat the stated goals are and
(48:50):
how they're following through onthem, and it just it gives me
much more hope, because there'sa personal reason for a person
to want to do this.
So you wake up and you go.
Why would I want to be energyefficient?
And it's because I will savemoney.
I can put that money towards myfamily, I can put that money
towards improving my own life.
But then not only am I doingthat, then it's actually going
to reduce the amount of energywe're pulling from the earth or
(49:13):
the amount of impact we'rehaving on rivers and waterways,
because the way BC Hydro has towork, those things are impacted.
So we're going to do that in abetter way and then we're
creating a cleaner planet andwe're also making sure
vulnerable populations are alsohaving higher quality life.
And when I started this, one ofmy favorite quotes was like try
(49:33):
and live your life in a waythat's good for you, good for
your family, good for yourcommunity, and then try and do
that in a way that's not goodfor you just today, but for a
year and for 10 years and forseven generations.
And when you try and live yourlife based on that, it really
narrows the direction you'regoing to move in.
(49:55):
Because if you're going to doall of those things, it's
actually much more challengingthan I think people realize and
the work that you're doing andthat Fortis is doing and other
organizations to bring downthose energy efficiency costs is
a statement on the trajectory.
I feel like we're going and Ithink that's a positive
direction.
Carol Suhan (50:12):
Yeah, I'd like to think so as well, because, I
mean again, I have mentioned acouple of times making your home
more comfortable.
But that is even though we'rekind of working on it from the
global kind of perspectiveultimately at the end of the day
for those families it is makingtheir home more comfortable and
healthier.
I know you mentioned before Imean again, there's all kinds of
(50:34):
research that shows that a cold, damp house not only does it
really uncomfortable therespiratory issues and health
issues.
So again, energy efficiency notonly will make your home more
comfortable and reduce yourutility bills but potentially
could even improve your healthbecause you'll have a healthier
(50:55):
air, you won't have the moldissues, you know et cetera.
Aaron Pete (50:59):
It's an excellent point because when I started on
council in 2022, because when Istarted on council in 2022, we
went into one person's home andthey were like my child has
severe asthma, is having a lotof health issues I don't want to
get it wrong, but it wassomething like had to have their
liver checked out and washaving because there was so much
mold and mildew in the roof,because that roof was never
(51:21):
built properly and it was 40years old.
And so he was like are you guysgoing to fix this?
You're the third person in 20years to come in and say you're
going to fix my home.
Are you actually going to fixit?
And it's rewarding to have thatcome to a close, but, to your
point, like you'll have healthissues and not even realize that
the connection between yourhome and how you're sleeping and
and the room you're in andenergy yeah, and and how energy
(51:44):
is used in your home.
Carol Suhan (51:45):
Yeah, so I'll do one little extra plug.
And again, this is the, thepeer partners and indigenous
energy efficiency and resiliencepeer.
And just so you know, our, ouradvisory committee, really they
chose that name and theyabsolutely wanted to have the
resilience at the end, becauseit's not only about energy
efficiency, it's about havingresilient homes.
But I I'm sorry I digress, butPURE, that program also will
(52:11):
provide funding, support forhealth and safety improvements
as well, whatever is related toenergy efficiency improvements.
So, whether it's buildingenvelope, you know if you're
having to, you know the homethat you just spoke about.
You know all of that oldinsulation would have to be
pulled out, the home would haveto be cleaned, et cetera, and
then we provide funding to dothat and then, of course,
(52:33):
provide the funding to have thathome re-insulated properly.
Aaron Pete (52:37):
Right, the last question that I have for you is
what inspired you to take onthis work.
Carol Suhan (52:44):
Boy, kind of by accident.
So I'm not sure if I was soinspired, but I grew up in the
North.
I live right next near theBeaver I'm not even sure Beaver
Indian Band Reserve.
We did not have electricity, wedid not have running water.
It's really cold, and so Ithink I know, even though I've
(53:11):
lived, make the difference inpeople's lives.
I don't know, I can't imaginehow fortunate I have been to
(53:35):
come into a role that allows meto try and help make some of
these problems better.
You know, yeah, I just feel sohonored.
Aaron Pete (53:46):
I really love that.
How can people learn more andstart to take some action?
Where would they go?
Carol Suhan (53:53):
You know, obviously , I mean from an Indigenous
community perspective.
I would talk to your housingteam, talk to your housing
manager.
I know they may hate me forsaying that because it puts more
work on their plate.
I think most folks, though.
Now I mean, like I say, youknow, I think every housing
(54:15):
manager across British Columbiais so dedicated and passionate
and I think most of themprobably already know about, you
know, the funding, support andthe things that need to be done.
But again, if they haven't hadthe capacity to do that, you
know anyone listening to thisprogram can say, well, there's a
(54:35):
new program and it does helpwith capacity funding as well.
So, yeah, start talking to yourhousing manager and hopefully,
through them, you know, we canhelp support them.
And you know, build, you know aplan, whether it's just for one
home at a time, like I can justmention some communities here in
the Fraser Valley that can Imention a name?
(54:57):
Absolutely.
I mean Nancy Murphy from SwallyNation.
Like she's just brilliant, butshe's literally been doing like
two homes at a time for the lastfive years and like, literally
so she keeps it very manageable.
But she says, you know, andwhen I get the rebates from the
utilities.
I use that money to go and workon the next house, and so,
(55:19):
whether it's a small projectlike that and you just you know,
chip at it one home at a time,or, you know, like you know, the
community-wide project like Italked about at Soyuz.
Aaron Pete (55:29):
And for everyday British Columbians?
Where would they go?
Carol Suhan (55:33):
I would say I would recommend well, gosh, you can
do anything but go to thewebsite, go to fortisbccom, go
under rebates and you can seekind of a pathway and maybe I'm
getting ahead of myself, butthat's very specifically if
you're wanting to makeefficiency improvements to your
(55:55):
home.
But you'll see that there'srebates available there again
for you know, any kind ofimprovements that you're making
on your home.
You can also go online to myaccount and they give you some
kinds of tips and ideas of howto get started or even if you
don't have the budget to work onit, but at least even the
things that you can do in yourhome.
(56:16):
Like I didn't know this, but ifyou have baseboard heating or
if you have a bench against awall, don't put your sofa over
those vents or in front of thatbaseboard heating, because it's
meant to be open to actuallycreate circulation in your home.
And if you don't and I can usemy own example in a previous
(56:37):
home you can have frost on thewall behind the sofa because you
don't have the proper heatcirculating in your house.
So anyway, if you go to theFortisBC website you'll get all
kinds of information like thatwe can be just like no cost and
make a difference in comfort andyour utility bills.
Aaron Pete (56:59):
Amazing Carol.
Thank you so much for beingwilling to join us today.
It's been an absolute privilegeto learn so much more from you.
Carol Suhan (57:05):
Oh well, thank you for the opportunity and I hope
well, I hope we have lots offolks listening and they can
take advantage of the programsand again make homes better.
Aaron Pete (57:17):
Beautiful.
I am sure they will Thank you.
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