Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Nuance Conversations, a podcast where
depth meets dialogue.
Hosted by Dr George E Hurt,this show explores the great
areas of life where faith,wisdom and real-world
complexities intersect.
No easy answers, just honestconversations that challenge,
inspire and inform.
Get ready to lean in, listenclosely and explore the nuance.
(00:26):
This is Nuance Conversations.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Let's talk politics, because you're so informed in
that area.
Are you affiliated formallywith the Democratic Party?
Is that you are registeredlicensed carrying Democrat?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I am.
I'm a lifelong Democrat and I'mgoing to ride the elephant
until you can't move no more.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, why are you a Democrat until?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
you can't move no more, yeah, yeah.
Why are you a Democrat?
Well, maybe because theDemocrat Party for so many years
, you know, championed many ofthe policies that I align with,
from social justice to theinequities of our communities to
(01:26):
, you know, affirmative action.
So my values align with theDemocratic, with most of the
Democratic Party policies.
That's why I'm a Democrat, andit seems like it's more
Democrats that fight for thingsI care about, like reparations
(01:47):
and stuff like that, than others.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
What's reparations?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
What does reparations look?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
like what is reparations?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Reparations is giving us our due diligence of the
past.
I mean, we was promised by AbeLincoln 40 acres and a mule and
we're still waiting for that 40acres and a mule.
So I believe that America willbecome blessed once they start
making means of our pastRetribution, Retribution.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
That's correct.
Yeah, what are some of yourconcerns about the Democratic
Party, if any?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Well, sometimes I think we champion.
You know I'm a social justiceguy, right, and so you know I
don't want to pick and choosewho rights I have the right to
defend.
But at the end of the day,there's some religious values
that I hold on to that are verysacred, to that are very sacred.
(02:43):
You know that a politician, Imust recognize, is, you know, a
politician of all people youknow, and so I have to recognize
the balance between myreligious affiliations and a
politician that that's electedto serve everybody, and so there
(03:05):
are some policies that I justwon't get into.
Like I don't believe womenshould or men should be playing
women's sports.
I don't believe in that stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I'm a sports fan.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I don't want to see that.
You know I understand thedisadvantages of those things.
And there's some politiciansthat's in the Democratic Party
that champion that stuff I justdon't get along with.
I just can't roll with that.
There's other stuff I can rollon with social justice, you know
health care.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So you have to make certain compromises.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
You got to make compromises, so if you're?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
if you're a Republican, what?
What?
Why would you be a Republican?
What, why would you be aRepublican?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
If I was a Republican , maybe I would because of my
conservatism, maybe because ofmy religious values.
So I mean, but at the end ofthe day, I tell people, Dr Hurt,
that we got more in common thanwe do apart.
Right, I worked for Congress.
(04:05):
For three years I worked for acongressperson, and when I went
to Washington DC, this is aDemocratic congressperson.
I worked for a Democraticcongressperson that needed my
help, that wanted me to helpsmooth over the black community.
So she gave me a job.
One of the things I saw when Iwent to Washington DC, when I
went to the lunch hall I didn'tsee the divisiveness that we see
(04:28):
on TV Republicans over here,democrats over there.
I seen everybody sitting downchatting, laughing, joking,
talking about family, talkingabout friends, talking about
what they did on the weekend,and it was just the politics
that divided them, the policies,the way to get things done.
So we got more in common thanwe do apart?
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Or is some of that just exasperated on TV or
settings to manipulate thecommon man?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
A hundred percent.
I mean, I look at our politicalclimax right now and I look at
the divide.
It's all designed to distractus from the commonalities that
we have together and thedivisiveness that they choose to
play to distract us from reallyunifying and being who God has
(05:26):
called us maximizing the effortsof unity.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
So does that mean they're working together on this
?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I think that when I look at the world, yeah, I think
it all has a lot to do with it.
I think it does.
It all works together.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
They're working together.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I think a lot of people are working together.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
So why should we be a Democrat or Republican if
they're all works together?
They're working together.
I think a lot of people areworking together, so why should
we be a Democrat or Republicanif they're working together?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Well, because you should be a Democrat, because
we're going to fight for you.
We're going to fight for theneeds of the community that we
live within, but you just saidthey're chilling together.
I'm talking about from anational perspective, man, when
I think about we just wentthrough an exhibit, nova.
Me and you both went to thisexhibit.
(06:08):
Our eyes was open to why thiswar between Israel and the other
country.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Palestinians.
Why it?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
came to fruition.
Why it came to fruition?
It was because these terroristswent into this innocent music
festival and shot up a whole lotof people.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Yeah, what a modern day combat is taking place, but
in America, we ain't talkingabout that.
No.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
We're talking about.
You know this and that, thisand that it's all a distraction,
but when we boil down to thereal reasons of why we're at
odds, you know we got to do abetter job of seeing through the
lens that CNN and Fox and otherarea NBC allows us to see
(06:59):
through.
We got to see it from a wholebigger aspect.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, very much so.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, very much so.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Thanks for saying that.
I was curious, as it relates totalking about these issues in
the upcoming election and thingsof that nature, Not even to
deal with vote for who or votenot vote for who, but as you put
(07:28):
on your prophetic lenses andlook at where the country is
headed politically, what is it?
What's your analysis on that?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Well, I might surprise you when I say this,
but I don't want to.
I'm looking for a good outcomeon all ends, but I can't.
I just can't see it, man, Ithink.
I think this world is really sodivided that whoever win is
(08:03):
going to inherit something thatis going to take an act of God
to really get us to where weneed to be, and so, rather, a
Democrat or Republican, whoevergets it, it's going to be a
divided country.
Our country is doing real badright now.
You know, economy is high andproblems are roaring rapid.
(08:27):
So whoever inherit this economyis going to be, it's going to
take a massive work to get ittogether and, at the end of the
day, we, as individuals, we gotto.
We got to, we got to pray andwe got to really see God through
this, because we got to startpraying for our leaders,
(08:54):
whoever's in office, democrat orRepublican, because they're
inheriting some, some, some,some, a messed up economy.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
So you think whoever gets in is going to be a
struggle, because the economyand we say the economy you mean
inflation- inflation rightinflation is specifically going
high how inflation is is um, andthen our trade elements.
Those are the three things thatprobably perplexing the comedy.
If you're a Republican, you'llprobably add into that the
(09:19):
border crisis and yeah we don'treally care about that stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
And, um, in my community, you know, we've been,
we all been living together uh,for a long time immigrant
community and African-Americancommunity.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
We've been struggling together for a while, but there
have also been some economicconsequences to that as well.
Well, yeah, you just saidyou're in a community where 99%
of the people don't even speakEnglish.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Don't speak English, right we?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
know about East LA being historically
African-American and now beingpredominantly inhabited by those
that are Mexican.
A lot of those made their wayhere illegally, thus taking away
some of the equity of housing,some of the choices that we have
as it relates to that.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
And I would say you know, play and this is not to
advocate towards that.
I'm just saying that's.
When we look at our communities, we have more in common than we
do apart.
We're all struggling, we're alltrying to get that American
dream and, yes, illegalimmigration has given more
(10:46):
opportunities for people tocompete, to have a successful
life for them and their family.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
I think America is built on immigration.
I think every country does needto have borders Borders
physically.
And then borders, alsolegislatively borders just you
know, the movie fences.
There are things that need tobe kept in.
There are things that need tobe kept out, especially when
you're already dealing with yourown plights, problems and
(11:15):
issues.
What I think sometimesrespectfully becomes politically
aloof for Democrats,african-american Democrats, is
we're sold this banner again ofparty lingo, of let the live
(11:35):
together.
Yes, you and me make the worlda better place, but then we
don't always factor into thosethe consequences, both socially,
economically and then evenpolitical power and capital, and
(12:05):
I think this is the word that alot of times is used, sometimes
even advocacy.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Intersectionality has been, hashad, the worst effect on the
progression of African-Americanspost the Civil War than
anything else.
Every time we're makingprogress, then we intersect with
LGBTIAA, immigrants or in LAMexicans or whatever the case
(12:31):
may be, immigrants or in LAMexicans or whatever the case
may be.
That same advocacy is sometimesnot reciprocated, or that
becomes.
You know, we're advocating foraffirmative action, bring
affirmative action, bringaffirmative action.
Well, white women benefitedjust as much, if not more, in
affirmative action.
Don't have those sixes in frontof me, don't want to speak just
(12:51):
in hyperbole, but certainly isindisputable and undebatable.
It can't be debated that whitewomen have a positive which
leads to white families, whichultimately leads to white men,
which also takes away fromAfrican-American people.
(13:12):
We look at the educationalstructure.
So the only reason I'm sayingthat and I'm legitimizing, you
know the points of inflationwhich is doing better, the issue
of housing which, with thiscurrent cut, should do better.
Housing which, with thiscurrent cut, should do better,
(13:32):
and I think more of what housingis?
The housing crisis ofhomelessness, and not just those
on the street, because that'smore of a mental health thing,
but those that are sleeping intheir cars, on somebody's
couches and things of thatnature.
That's also a plight.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
This is your space so I don't want to talk too much.
I'm glad you brought these out.
That further shows how muchwork we have to do as a
community in regards toeducating, and that further
highlights the importance ofindividuals just going out to
(14:09):
vote Not just the top of theballot, but all of the ballots,
because there's so manydifferent measures, there's so
many different judges, there'sso many different opportunities
where you, as and us, we canmake that difference by simply
getting out and voting and beingadvocates for things that we
like.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
So I love what you said, so make this world a
better place.
We're back to the kumbaya.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
You may get a better place by utilizing every
opportunity that you have tomake a difference.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
But I do think we need to have some hard
conversations.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
It got to happen, I think everything you said was
spot on in most of ourcommunities.
But the reality is, will thatconversation work with you?
Know that person that's justreally trying to find it?
Speaker 3 (15:01):
you know, listen, I don't know.
I feel like, you know, if we'regoing to have these
conversations, it got to getinto that gray area, and this is
one of the reasons why I wantedto create a space like this.
If we're going to have theseconversations, it got to get
into that gray area.
Um, and this is one of thereasons why I wanted to create a
space like this to say, hey,all right, you ought to your own
mouth.
I went down to Capitol Hill.
They're all eating together,drinking together.
(15:23):
What are they doing?
They're probably at barstogether, they probably have a
freak offs together and all ofthe other stuff.
Um, together, they just kind ofpoint at, you know, one person
or one group.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
They're doing all this stuff, they're doing a
cocaine, they're doing all thisoff our dollars all together and
they have us at each other'sthroat.
And then when I go back andlook at it and say, hey, there
needs to be a space in themiddle.
What you're trying to sell me,what you're trying to sell me,
the operative space is probablyin the middle.
(15:56):
So again, america is a land ofimmigrants.
The reason why America isAmerica from a world power
standpoint, from a socialpopularity standpoint, from a
pop culture iconic standpoint,is because of immigration, uh,
in immigrants, um, but AfricanAmericans, of immigration and
immigrants, butAfrican-Americans, we're not
immigrants, we are natives.
(16:20):
We built this land, even thoughit was based, it was built on
brutality and force.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
We are the core, through the evils of
colonization and slave trade andthings of that nature, that was
produced through goodwill,ultimately people of faith,
christian faith majority, tomake this force this country to
(16:49):
stand by the true expansion ofthe liberty and justice for all
that the founding fathers builtit upon.
But we said, wait a minute, ifyou're going to build it, it's
not going to be upon our back,it's going to be upon us at the
table.
Right, we're not.
And, yes, it took wars andhundreds of years and they were
(17:10):
still yet fighting for that inits full evolution.
And so we have to always, Ithink, be conscious of the fact
that, hey, if Democrats saying,saying and doing it, you know I
can still align with you, westill party together.
Whatever the case may be, but Ido need to speak to these
(17:32):
issues.
That that perplexes my peopleand so repudiate reparation
looks looks various ways, butit's good on paper but also it
can be manifest in various ways.
It doesn't Education, education,housing, trade, business
(17:53):
opportunities.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
No taxes for the rest of our lives.
I mean, I want us to pay taxes.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
I rather you give me money and I pay taxes than not
to pay taxes, because taxes ishow.
And that's the other thingabout immigration.
Yeah, illegal immigration wouldbe specific, because that's
really what we're talking aboutImmigration, illegal immigration
.
They don't pay taxes, rightright, right right.
So they're not paying theirfair share, but they're getting
all the benefits that this landhas to offer.
Again, that's not to villainizea certain group, because
(18:22):
illegal immigration doesn't justcome from the southern South.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
America.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
It comes from all across the world through fake
marriages and things of thatnature, and so we have to attack
it there.
We have to attack it there andcertainly, as these are
bordering countries, are dealingwith plights.
We should be significant tothat in amnesty and have that
coming in.
But it needs to be done throughorder and African-Americans
(18:51):
cannot be the one on the lowtolling pole of the people who
are making ultimate indirectsacrifices with it.
And the group that we depend onto do that is Democrats, as you
said, and I would agree with,because they seem to have the
most advocate and sensitivity toour plights.
But if they're trying to tellus what our plights is and not
(19:16):
being fair and just on what theyare in totality, then it
becomes problematic and weshould look in other ways to get
that done.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I agree, I agree.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
No, no, no, I mean, that's just you know.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
No, hey, that's George Hurt 101.
And I believe ultimately it'sgoing to take everyone pulling
together Kumbaya moment to makesure we, that all sides, are
speaking at each other and foreach other.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
We got you what I mean you're a sports advocate.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I'm a sports advocate .
You know, we got a chance toexperience the Dodgers winning
the World Series together,didn't we?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yeah, we went down to Texas doing COVID and saw the
Dodgers.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I'm hearing you cheering for the Detroit Tigers
right about now.
That's my hometown, that's myteam.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
I always will be.
I've always been a Dodgersupporter.
I wouldn't say fan because ofKirk Gibson, we had this
conversation we longed for Kirk.
Gibson.
Kirk Gibson hit the greatesthome run in history in Major
League Baseball.
Hopped around the base and setthe pace for you all.
That did that series, I thinkin 1988.
(20:31):
So I swagged with the Dodgers.
Because of LeBron, I got somepaperwork signed.
I was able to become a Lakersupporter as well.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
And we welcomed you in.
Yeah, some Laker fans, you wereone of them, that welcomed me
in.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
There are others that were a little mean to me.
That's okay, you know, and I'vebeen strong.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
It comes with it, it comes with it, it comes with it.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
We look at it, the Tigers could air in the playoffs
.
The Dodgers are in the playoffs.
You won.
Last night too, we did win andthe various things we may find
ourselves.
This is a pre-record, so we mayfind ourselves ultimately in
there, Somewhere in there.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
And we may be sitting next to each other.
The Lions did it.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
The Lions are doing great they did it last year.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
They made it to the chip, they made it to the NFC
championship we didn't make itto the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Got it.
Nfc championship we made it tothe NFC championship.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
We should have beat.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
San.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Francisco.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
We made some calls.
I want to call them bonehead,because that's our style and it
just didn't work out.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
You're a young team and very exciting team, very
exciting coaching, so you have alot to look forward to.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Well, sports is a lot .
Of Life is very situational.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Sports be sporting.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah, it's very situational, so there's
decisions that you make basedoff of the current climax that
you're in, that we didn't adjustto as a lion.
So I mean trying to win aone-winner-take-all opposed to
just a regular season game isnot the same mentality and flow.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
It's a different flow , but you got the experience.
You got the experience, so weshould be able to learn from it,
able to learn from it.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah, I said all to say that, to say, uh, what are,
um some of your favorite sportsmoments?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
man believe it or not .
You may mention uh 1988, kirkGibson home run.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
You know, sixth grade , fifth grade student watching
my baseball game on my littleblack and white TV,
experiencecing that moment mademe a baseball fan for the rest
of my life, man.
So that was your moment, thatwas my moment, 1988.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
1988.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
84 was mine when Tigers won the World Series.
World Series, okay.
Kirk Gibson was on that team,wasn't?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
he Gibson was Alan Trammell, alan Trammell, lou
Whitaker, yeah, yeah, yeah, chetLemon.
So Chet Lemon, I think, came in85, okay, but so I see the
whole city in the uproar.
This is how I became a sportsfan period, because baseball was
my first love.
Yeah, I see the city in theuproar.
(23:13):
84, october 84.
So what am I?
Seven years old, and I'mcurious on why they, the Tigers,
win.
So the first game of the nextday I made I made the, got the
lineup and I just startedwatching the study in baseball
and fell in love with it.
Start buying baseball cardsthen.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I start going to the games.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, I was saying, but my $4 to get bleacher seats
I would go by myself most of thetime.
My mother would let me drop meoff two hours earlier before I
could go to batting practice,trying to get a ball, all that.
And so 88 is interesting thatyou bring that up because A,
we're pulling for the Dodgersthe whole neighborhood because
(23:55):
Gibson's on the Dodgers now andtime difference oh yeah, three
hours.
We were pulling for the Dodgersthe whole neighborhood because
Gibson's on the Dodgers now andtime difference oh yeah, three
hours, three-hour timedifference, two hours something.
So my mother would let me stayup past my bedtime to watch
sports.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
But I fell asleep.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Man.
And so the next day day my bestfriend growing up called Amun
Ardell Blanchard.
He sees me and he's like oh,you fell asleep, huh cause.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I didn't immediately start talking about it.
You wasn't excited.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
He's like you know gives me the hard run to win a
game so again, it's notSportsCenter, it's no look on
Twitter, it's no cell phone.
So I'm waiting for the paperand I'm going to try to wait
that night.
I'm watching the news to seethe highlights yeah.
Very disappointed.
I know you was Verydisappointed.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Listen, it was one of the highlights of my life
watching that moment and I stillremember that home run call
from Vince Scully oh, I can'tbelieve it was doing what I just
saw.
Yeah, I can't believe what myeyes are just seeing.
She is gone, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
So that was.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
That was man that just made baseball my first love
man.
And I'm like you um baseballcards, upper deck tops, all of
that stuff.
I collected it all man that'spart of hey man, mine's burnt up
in the fire, you know, yeah,but it was all good, you know.
But baseball, that's myfavorite highlight, that's what
made me an avid sports fan.
(25:28):
And of course, the Lakers.
You know you're living in the80s and you get championship
after championship.
You know it becomes a part ofyour.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
DNA, we're just a series of gold.
There were a couple years.
Y'all didn't win.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Well, I mean, I know that Detroit series, you know,
yeah, but that was, you know, wehad a lot of injuries in 89.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yeah, because nobody gets injured.
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
And then we had injuries the last time you beat
us.
So I mean you know you all gotlucky Y'all was fully healthy.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
No, he wasn't.
Shaq and Kobe was healthy.
Shaq and Kobe both were healthy.
The 66-year-old Carmelone didhave some health problems.
The only person that stayedstrong was the 88-year-old
Carmelone did have some problemsbut he still played.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
No, that's not true.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
George, but we won for one.
That's the hurt.
We ended y'all's dynasty, phil.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Jackson quit Shaq went to Miami.
That Detroit Lions team was arugged Detroit Pistons.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Excuse me, detroit Pistons team was a very rugged
team but we was hurt.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Y'all check the record, check the newspaper,
google it.
We was hurt.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
They played.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
They did, but we was hurt.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
It played they did, but it was her.
It wasn't the same Lakers weused to Y'all supposedly so
superior to us, larry.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Brown did a great job coaching.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
He did a outstanding job.
We give you your love but webeat you a couple of times too,
Not in the finals.
We're two and oh-gish.
We're two and oh-gish on thefinals.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
We backed the back, don't we in the 80s?
Yeah, we did, we got you.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Oh no, you're 2-1.
That's right, Job 1.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
That's right, the final foul against Karl Malone.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Yeah, when Isaiah hurt his ankle and broke the
record for the most points, andwe have more chips.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So that's the beautiful thing you do have more
.
You do have more, and I'm aLakers supporter.
Welcome to the Lakers franchise.
No, we accept that.
You heard the preacher say itGo to therapy.
That's right.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yeah, man.
Thanks again for doing this.
Man, we could talk all day somuch we didn't hit.
Yeah, come back and do anothersession.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
You're welcome.
You know everything should befinalized real soon.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
So I'll be glad to talk about a little bit more.
Yeah, no, no, not.
You have so much more to offerthan that.
Um and when, this is not ascuttlebutt no, no, no, I agree
shock podcast.
This is about having anintelligent conversation, and
the only reason that I found itrelevant to bring that up is
because you were talking aboutwhat you learned from it.
It made you better, and there'sthings that you that up is
because you were talking aboutwhat you learned from it and how
it made you better, and there'sthings that you know certainly
that if you were better, uh,those things would have been
(28:03):
smoother.
Somebody out there listening,um, hopefully they'll hear that
and be motivated, um to work onself, opposed to pointing
pointing fingers.
Somebody else has done wrongbecause, um, the great, the
great, the greatest, lateMichael Jackson said I'm
(28:23):
starting with the man.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
In the mirror hey.
That's it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Love it.
Listen at you.
Hey, thank you all for tuningin.
Please tune in next week foranother episode of nuance
conversations.
This is a podcast that is meantto operate in the gray area,
not the black and white.
Have open, intelligent andhonest pop culture and religion.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to Nuance Conversations, a podcast where
depth meets dialogue.
Hosted by Dr George E Hurt,this show explores the great
areas of life where faith,wisdom and real-world
complexities intersect.
No easy answers, just honestconversations that challenge,
inspire and inform.
Get ready to lean in, listenclosely and explore the nuance.
(00:26):
This is Nuance Conversations.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Let's talk politics, because you're so informed in
that area.
Are you affiliated formallywith the Democratic Party?
Is that you are registeredlicensed carrying Democrat?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I am.
I'm a lifelong Democrat and I'mgoing to ride the elephant
until you can't move no more.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, why are you a Democrat until?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
you can't move no more, yeah, yeah.
Why are you a Democrat?
Well, maybe because theDemocrat Party for so many years
, you know, championed many ofthe policies that I align with,
from social justice to theinequities of our communities to
(01:26):
, you know, affirmative action.
So my values align with theDemocratic, with most of the
Democratic Party policies.
That's why I'm a Democrat, andit seems like it's more
Democrats that fight for thingsI care about, like reparations
(01:47):
and stuff like that, than others.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
What's reparations?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
What does reparations look?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
like what is reparations?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Reparations is giving us our due diligence of the
past.
I mean, we was promised by AbeLincoln 40 acres and a mule and
we're still waiting for that 40acres and a mule.
So I believe that America willbecome blessed once they start
making means of our pastRetribution, Retribution.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
That's correct.
Yeah, what are some of yourconcerns about the Democratic
Party, if any?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Well, sometimes I think we champion.
You know I'm a social justiceguy, right, and so you know I
don't want to pick and choosewho rights I have the right to
defend.
But at the end of the day,there's some religious values
that I hold on to that are verysacred, to that are very sacred.
(02:43):
You know that a politician, Imust recognize, is, you know, a
politician of all people youknow, and so I have to recognize
the balance between myreligious affiliations and a
politician that that's electedto serve everybody, and so there
(03:05):
are some policies that I justwon't get into.
Like I don't believe womenshould or men should be playing
women's sports.
I don't believe in that stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I'm a sports fan.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I don't want to see that.
You know I understand thedisadvantages of those things.
And there's some politiciansthat's in the Democratic Party
that champion that stuff I justdon't get along with.
I just can't roll with that.
There's other stuff I can rollon with social justice, you know
health care.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So you have to make certain compromises.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
You got to make compromises, so if you're?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
if you're a Republican, what?
What?
Why would you be a Republican?
What, why would you be aRepublican?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
If I was a Republican , maybe I would because of my
conservatism, maybe because ofmy religious values.
So I mean, but at the end ofthe day, I tell people, Dr Hurt,
that we got more in common thanwe do apart.
Right, I worked for Congress.
(04:05):
For three years I worked for acongressperson, and when I went
to Washington DC, this is aDemocratic congressperson.
I worked for a Democraticcongressperson that needed my
help, that wanted me to helpsmooth over the black community.
So she gave me a job.
One of the things I saw when Iwent to Washington DC, when I
went to the lunch hall I didn'tsee the divisiveness that we see
(04:28):
on TV Republicans over here,democrats over there.
I seen everybody sitting downchatting, laughing, joking,
talking about family, talkingabout friends, talking about
what they did on the weekend,and it was just the politics
that divided them, the policies,the way to get things done.
So we got more in common thanwe do apart?
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Or is some of that just exasperated on TV or
settings to manipulate thecommon man?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
A hundred percent.
I mean, I look at our politicalclimax right now and I look at
the divide.
It's all designed to distractus from the commonalities that
we have together and thedivisiveness that they choose to
play to distract us from reallyunifying and being who God has
(05:26):
called us maximizing the effortsof unity.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
So does that mean they're working together on this
?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I think that when I look at the world, yeah, I think
it all has a lot to do with it.
I think it does.
It all works together.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
They're working together.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I think a lot of people are working together.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
So why should we be a Democrat or Republican if
they're all works together?
They're working together.
I think a lot of people areworking together, so why should
we be a Democrat or Republicanif they're working together?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Well, because you should be a Democrat, because
we're going to fight for you.
We're going to fight for theneeds of the community that we
live within, but you just saidthey're chilling together.
I'm talking about from anational perspective, man, when
I think about we just wentthrough an exhibit, nova.
Me and you both went to thisexhibit.
(06:08):
Our eyes was open to why thiswar between Israel and the other
country.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Palestinians.
Why it?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
came to fruition.
Why it came to fruition?
It was because these terroristswent into this innocent music
festival and shot up a whole lotof people.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Yeah, what a modern day combat is taking place, but
in America, we ain't talkingabout that.
No.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
We're talking about.
You know this and that, thisand that it's all a distraction,
but when we boil down to thereal reasons of why we're at
odds, you know we got to do abetter job of seeing through the
lens that CNN and Fox and otherarea NBC allows us to see
(06:59):
through.
We got to see it from a wholebigger aspect.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, very much so.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, very much so.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Thanks for saying that.
I was curious, as it relates totalking about these issues in
the upcoming election and thingsof that nature, Not even to
deal with vote for who or votenot vote for who, but as you put
(07:28):
on your prophetic lenses andlook at where the country is
headed politically, what is it?
What's your analysis on that?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Well, I might surprise you when I say this,
but I don't want to.
I'm looking for a good outcomeon all ends, but I can't.
I just can't see it, man, Ithink.
I think this world is really sodivided that whoever win is
(08:03):
going to inherit something thatis going to take an act of God
to really get us to where weneed to be, and so, rather, a
Democrat or Republican, whoevergets it, it's going to be a
divided country.
Our country is doing real badright now.
You know, economy is high andproblems are roaring rapid.
(08:27):
So whoever inherit this economyis going to be, it's going to
take a massive work to get ittogether and, at the end of the
day, we, as individuals, we gotto.
We got to, we got to pray andwe got to really see God through
this, because we got to startpraying for our leaders,
(08:54):
whoever's in office, democrat orRepublican, because they're
inheriting some, some, some,some, a messed up economy.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
So you think whoever gets in is going to be a
struggle, because the economyand we say the economy you mean
inflation- inflation rightinflation is specifically going
high how inflation is is um, andthen our trade elements.
Those are the three things thatprobably perplexing the comedy.
If you're a Republican, you'llprobably add into that the
(09:19):
border crisis and yeah we don'treally care about that stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
And, um, in my community, you know, we've been,
we all been living together uh,for a long time immigrant
community and African-Americancommunity.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
We've been struggling together for a while, but there
have also been some economicconsequences to that as well.
Well, yeah, you just saidyou're in a community where 99%
of the people don't even speakEnglish.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Don't speak English, right we?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
know about East LA being historically
African-American and now beingpredominantly inhabited by those
that are Mexican.
A lot of those made their wayhere illegally, thus taking away
some of the equity of housing,some of the choices that we have
as it relates to that.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
And I would say you know, play and this is not to
advocate towards that.
I'm just saying that's.
When we look at our communities, we have more in common than we
do apart.
We're all struggling, we're alltrying to get that American
dream and, yes, illegalimmigration has given more
(10:46):
opportunities for people tocompete, to have a successful
life for them and their family.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
I think America is built on immigration.
I think every country does needto have borders Borders
physically.
And then borders, alsolegislatively borders just you
know, the movie fences.
There are things that need tobe kept in.
There are things that need tobe kept out, especially when
you're already dealing with yourown plights, problems and
(11:15):
issues.
What I think sometimesrespectfully becomes politically
aloof for Democrats,african-american Democrats, is
we're sold this banner again ofparty lingo, of let the live
(11:35):
together.
Yes, you and me make the worlda better place, but then we
don't always factor into thosethe consequences, both socially,
economically and then evenpolitical power and capital, and
(12:05):
I think this is the word that alot of times is used, sometimes
even advocacy.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Intersectionality has been, hashad, the worst effect on the
progression of African-Americanspost the Civil War than
anything else.
Every time we're makingprogress, then we intersect with
LGBTIAA, immigrants or in LAMexicans or whatever the case
(12:31):
may be, immigrants or in LAMexicans or whatever the case
may be.
That same advocacy is sometimesnot reciprocated, or that
becomes.
You know, we're advocating foraffirmative action, bring
affirmative action, bringaffirmative action.
Well, white women benefitedjust as much, if not more, in
affirmative action.
Don't have those sixes in frontof me, don't want to speak just
(12:51):
in hyperbole, but certainly isindisputable and undebatable.
It can't be debated that whitewomen have a positive which
leads to white families, whichultimately leads to white men,
which also takes away fromAfrican-American people.
(13:12):
We look at the educationalstructure.
So the only reason I'm sayingthat and I'm legitimizing, you
know the points of inflationwhich is doing better, the issue
of housing which, with thiscurrent cut, should do better.
Housing which, with thiscurrent cut, should do better,
(13:32):
and I think more of what housingis?
The housing crisis ofhomelessness, and not just those
on the street, because that'smore of a mental health thing,
but those that are sleeping intheir cars, on somebody's
couches and things of thatnature.
That's also a plight.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
This is your space so I don't want to talk too much.
I'm glad you brought these out.
That further shows how muchwork we have to do as a
community in regards toeducating, and that further
highlights the importance ofindividuals just going out to
(14:09):
vote Not just the top of theballot, but all of the ballots,
because there's so manydifferent measures, there's so
many different judges, there'sso many different opportunities
where you, as and us, we canmake that difference by simply
getting out and voting and beingadvocates for things that we
like.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
So I love what you said, so make this world a
better place.
We're back to the kumbaya.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
You may get a better place by utilizing every
opportunity that you have tomake a difference.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
But I do think we need to have some hard
conversations.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
It got to happen, I think everything you said was
spot on in most of ourcommunities.
But the reality is, will thatconversation work with you?
Know that person that's justreally trying to find it?
Speaker 3 (15:01):
you know, listen, I don't know.
I feel like, you know, if we'regoing to have these
conversations, it got to getinto that gray area, and this is
one of the reasons why I wantedto create a space like this.
If we're going to have theseconversations, it got to get
into that gray area.
Um, and this is one of thereasons why I wanted to create a
space like this to say, hey,all right, you ought to your own
mouth.
I went down to Capitol Hill.
They're all eating together,drinking together.
(15:23):
What are they doing?
They're probably at barstogether, they probably have a
freak offs together and all ofthe other stuff.
Um, together, they just kind ofpoint at, you know, one person
or one group.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
They're doing all this stuff, they're doing a
cocaine, they're doing all thisoff our dollars all together and
they have us at each other'sthroat.
And then when I go back andlook at it and say, hey, there
needs to be a space in themiddle.
What you're trying to sell me,what you're trying to sell me,
the operative space is probablyin the middle.
(15:56):
So again, america is a land ofimmigrants.
The reason why America isAmerica from a world power
standpoint, from a socialpopularity standpoint, from a
pop culture iconic standpoint,is because of immigration, uh,
in immigrants, um, but AfricanAmericans, of immigration and
immigrants, butAfrican-Americans, we're not
immigrants, we are natives.
(16:20):
We built this land, even thoughit was based, it was built on
brutality and force.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
We are the core, through the evils of
colonization and slave trade andthings of that nature, that was
produced through goodwill,ultimately people of faith,
christian faith majority, tomake this force this country to
(16:49):
stand by the true expansion ofthe liberty and justice for all
that the founding fathers builtit upon.
But we said, wait a minute, ifyou're going to build it, it's
not going to be upon our back,it's going to be upon us at the
table.
Right, we're not.
And, yes, it took wars andhundreds of years and they were
(17:10):
still yet fighting for that inits full evolution.
And so we have to always, Ithink, be conscious of the fact
that, hey, if Democrats saying,saying and doing it, you know I
can still align with you, westill party together.
Whatever the case may be, but Ido need to speak to these
(17:32):
issues.
That that perplexes my peopleand so repudiate reparation
looks looks various ways, butit's good on paper but also it
can be manifest in various ways.
It doesn't Education, education,housing, trade, business
(17:53):
opportunities.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
No taxes for the rest of our lives.
I mean, I want us to pay taxes.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
I rather you give me money and I pay taxes than not
to pay taxes, because taxes ishow.
And that's the other thingabout immigration.
Yeah, illegal immigration wouldbe specific, because that's
really what we're talking aboutImmigration, illegal immigration
.
They don't pay taxes, rightright, right right.
So they're not paying theirfair share, but they're getting
all the benefits that this landhas to offer.
Again, that's not to villainizea certain group, because
(18:22):
illegal immigration doesn't justcome from the southern South.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
America.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
It comes from all across the world through fake
marriages and things of thatnature, and so we have to attack
it there.
We have to attack it there andcertainly, as these are
bordering countries, are dealingwith plights.
We should be significant tothat in amnesty and have that
coming in.
But it needs to be done throughorder and African-Americans
(18:51):
cannot be the one on the lowtolling pole of the people who
are making ultimate indirectsacrifices with it.
And the group that we depend onto do that is Democrats, as you
said, and I would agree with,because they seem to have the
most advocate and sensitivity toour plights.
But if they're trying to tellus what our plights is and not
(19:16):
being fair and just on what theyare in totality, then it
becomes problematic and weshould look in other ways to get
that done.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I agree, I agree.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
No, no, no, I mean, that's just you know.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
No, hey, that's George Hurt 101.
And I believe ultimately it'sgoing to take everyone pulling
together Kumbaya moment to makesure we, that all sides, are
speaking at each other and foreach other.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
We got you what I mean you're a sports advocate.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I'm a sports advocate .
You know, we got a chance toexperience the Dodgers winning
the World Series together,didn't we?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yeah, we went down to Texas doing COVID and saw the
Dodgers.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I'm hearing you cheering for the Detroit Tigers
right about now.
That's my hometown, that's myteam.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
I always will be.
I've always been a Dodgersupporter.
I wouldn't say fan because ofKirk Gibson, we had this
conversation we longed for Kirk.
Gibson.
Kirk Gibson hit the greatesthome run in history in Major
League Baseball.
Hopped around the base and setthe pace for you all.
That did that series, I thinkin 1988.
(20:31):
So I swagged with the Dodgers.
Because of LeBron, I got somepaperwork signed.
I was able to become a Lakersupporter as well.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
And we welcomed you in.
Yeah, some Laker fans, you wereone of them, that welcomed me
in.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
There are others that were a little mean to me.
That's okay, you know, and I'vebeen strong.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
It comes with it, it comes with it, it comes with it.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
We look at it, the Tigers could air in the playoffs
.
The Dodgers are in the playoffs.
You won.
Last night too, we did win andthe various things we may find
ourselves.
This is a pre-record, so we mayfind ourselves ultimately in
there, Somewhere in there.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
And we may be sitting next to each other.
The Lions did it.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
The Lions are doing great they did it last year.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
They made it to the chip, they made it to the NFC
championship we didn't make itto the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Got it.
Nfc championship we made it tothe NFC championship.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
We should have beat.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
San.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Francisco.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
We made some calls.
I want to call them bonehead,because that's our style and it
just didn't work out.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
You're a young team and very exciting team, very
exciting coaching, so you have alot to look forward to.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Well, sports is a lot .
Of Life is very situational.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Sports be sporting.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah, it's very situational, so there's
decisions that you make basedoff of the current climax that
you're in, that we didn't adjustto as a lion.
So I mean trying to win aone-winner-take-all opposed to
just a regular season game isnot the same mentality and flow.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
It's a different flow , but you got the experience.
You got the experience, so weshould be able to learn from it,
able to learn from it.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah, I said all to say that, to say, uh, what are,
um some of your favorite sportsmoments?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
man believe it or not .
You may mention uh 1988, kirkGibson home run.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
You know, sixth grade , fifth grade student watching
my baseball game on my littleblack and white TV,
experiencecing that moment mademe a baseball fan for the rest
of my life, man.
So that was your moment, thatwas my moment, 1988.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
1988.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
84 was mine when Tigers won the World Series.
World Series, okay.
Kirk Gibson was on that team,wasn't?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
he Gibson was Alan Trammell, alan Trammell, lou
Whitaker, yeah, yeah, yeah, chetLemon.
So Chet Lemon, I think, came in85, okay, but so I see the
whole city in the uproar.
This is how I became a sportsfan period, because baseball was
my first love.
Yeah, I see the city in theuproar.
(23:13):
84, october 84.
So what am I?
Seven years old, and I'mcurious on why they, the Tigers,
win.
So the first game of the nextday I made I made the, got the
lineup and I just startedwatching the study in baseball
and fell in love with it.
Start buying baseball cardsthen.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I start going to the games.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, I was saying, but my $4 to get bleacher seats
I would go by myself most of thetime.
My mother would let me drop meoff two hours earlier before I
could go to batting practice,trying to get a ball, all that.
And so 88 is interesting thatyou bring that up because A,
we're pulling for the Dodgersthe whole neighborhood because
(23:55):
Gibson's on the Dodgers now andtime difference oh yeah, three
hours.
We were pulling for the Dodgersthe whole neighborhood because
Gibson's on the Dodgers now andtime difference oh yeah, three
hours, three-hour timedifference, two hours something.
So my mother would let me stayup past my bedtime to watch
sports.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
But I fell asleep.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Man.
And so the next day day my bestfriend growing up called Amun
Ardell Blanchard.
He sees me and he's like oh,you fell asleep, huh cause.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I didn't immediately start talking about it.
You wasn't excited.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
He's like you know gives me the hard run to win a
game so again, it's notSportsCenter, it's no look on
Twitter, it's no cell phone.
So I'm waiting for the paperand I'm going to try to wait
that night.
I'm watching the news to seethe highlights yeah.
Very disappointed.
I know you was Verydisappointed.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Listen, it was one of the highlights of my life
watching that moment and I stillremember that home run call
from Vince Scully oh, I can'tbelieve it was doing what I just
saw.
Yeah, I can't believe what myeyes are just seeing.
She is gone, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
So that was.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
That was man that just made baseball my first love
man.
And I'm like you um baseballcards, upper deck tops, all of
that stuff.
I collected it all man that'spart of hey man, mine's burnt up
in the fire, you know, yeah,but it was all good, you know.
But baseball, that's myfavorite highlight, that's what
made me an avid sports fan.
(25:28):
And of course, the Lakers.
You know you're living in the80s and you get championship
after championship.
You know it becomes a part ofyour.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
DNA, we're just a series of gold.
There were a couple years.
Y'all didn't win.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Well, I mean, I know that Detroit series, you know,
yeah, but that was, you know, wehad a lot of injuries in 89.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yeah, because nobody gets injured.
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
And then we had injuries the last time you beat
us.
So I mean you know you all gotlucky Y'all was fully healthy.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
No, he wasn't.
Shaq and Kobe was healthy.
Shaq and Kobe both were healthy.
The 66-year-old Carmelone didhave some health problems.
The only person that stayedstrong was the 88-year-old
Carmelone did have some problemsbut he still played.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
No, that's not true.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
George, but we won for one.
That's the hurt.
We ended y'all's dynasty, phil.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Jackson quit Shaq went to Miami.
That Detroit Lions team was arugged Detroit Pistons.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Excuse me, detroit Pistons team was a very rugged
team but we was hurt.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Y'all check the record, check the newspaper,
google it.
We was hurt.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
They played.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
They did, but we was hurt.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
It played they did, but it was her.
It wasn't the same Lakers weused to Y'all supposedly so
superior to us, larry.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Brown did a great job coaching.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
He did a outstanding job.
We give you your love but webeat you a couple of times too,
Not in the finals.
We're two and oh-gish.
We're two and oh-gish on thefinals.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
We backed the back, don't we in the 80s?
Yeah, we did, we got you.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Oh no, you're 2-1.
That's right, Job 1.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
That's right, the final foul against Karl Malone.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Yeah, when Isaiah hurt his ankle and broke the
record for the most points, andwe have more chips.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So that's the beautiful thing you do have more
.
You do have more, and I'm aLakers supporter.
Welcome to the Lakers franchise.
No, we accept that.
You heard the preacher say itGo to therapy.
That's right.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yeah, man.
Thanks again for doing this.
Man, we could talk all day somuch we didn't hit.
Yeah, come back and do anothersession.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
You're welcome.
You know everything should befinalized real soon.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
So I'll be glad to talk about a little bit more.
Yeah, no, no, not.
You have so much more to offerthan that.
Um and when, this is not ascuttlebutt no, no, no, I agree
shock podcast.
This is about having anintelligent conversation, and
the only reason that I found itrelevant to bring that up is
because you were talking aboutwhat you learned from it.
It made you better, and there'sthings that you that up is
because you were talking aboutwhat you learned from it and how
it made you better, and there'sthings that you know certainly
that if you were better, uh,those things would have been
(28:03):
smoother.
Somebody out there listening,um, hopefully they'll hear that
and be motivated, um to work onself, opposed to pointing
pointing fingers.
Somebody else has done wrongbecause, um, the great, the
great, the greatest, lateMichael Jackson said I'm
(28:23):
starting with the man.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
In the mirror hey.
That's it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Love it.
Listen at you.
Hey, thank you all for tuningin.
Please tune in next week foranother episode of nuance
conversations.
This is a podcast that is meantto operate in the gray area,
not the black and white.
Have open, intelligent andhonest pop culture and religion.
Thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.