Does Alcohol Hit Differently in Menopause?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Good evening and welcome to another episode of
Nurse Maureen's Health Showpodcast.
I'm Maureen McGrath, aregistered nurse, nurse,
continence advisor and sexualhealth educator.
I also educate a lot aboutmenopause as well and
perimenopause, as I see manywomen in my clinical practice
who are experiencing that lifetransition.
But there's something that isalmost a common denominator that

(00:25):
can impact perimenopause andmenopausal symptoms that you
know, sometimes we don't talkabout because it's socially
acceptable and it's one of thosethings that we celebrate with
and that we don't educate aboutthe negative impacts or the fact
that it's a type one carcinogen, and what I'm talking about is
alcohol, and so I had a questiondoes alcohol hit differently at

(00:48):
perimenopause and menopause?
And there was none other toinvite to this podcast but
Madeline Shaw.
She's a writer and a socialentrepreneur.
She's also the author of theGreater Good, which is available
online at Amazon and throughher website, madelineshawca.
She also entered the world ofsobriety four years ago and she

(01:11):
joins me on the podcast thisevening.
Good evening, madeline.
How are you?

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Hey, maureen, I'm great.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Oh, good, yeah, so nice to connect again.
It's been a little while.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
I'm a huge fan.
I'm excited to chat with you.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Oh, you're so sweet.
Thank you so much.
Well, I'm a huge fan of yoursand I'm so delighted that you're
talking about this subject,because it's something that we
don't really talk about.
It's misunderstood, it affectswomen differently than men.
We're talking about alcohol, soI'd like to start with your
journey.
What role did alcohol play inyour life before you chose
sobriety, and did you notice anychanges in your relationship
with alcohol as you approachperimenopause or menopause?

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, 100%.
So I mean like over 70% ofCanadians and Americans, for
that matter.
You know I consumed alcohol.
I started drinking when I was ateenager.
I thought it was cool and youknow it's just kind of a way to
relax and party and celebrateand kind of all.
The social trop was in my mid40s and alcohol sort of changed,

(02:12):
like it became.
Instead of just being this youknow, wahoo, celebratory cheers

(02:34):
kind of thing, it also startedto become something that was
important to me when maybe Iwasn't feeling that good, when I
maybe I was feeling a bit sador lonely or disappointed or
just kind of bored at the end ofthe day when I was making
dinner and all of that sort ofcame to a head during menopause,
when I started to experiencehot flashes and night sweats in

(02:58):
particular and sleep disruption.
I learned I started, you know,identifying that in my mid 40s
that alcohol definitely had anegative impact on my sleep and
I did that through experimentingwith dry January for probably
about five years before I quitalcohol for good, and it really

(03:21):
showed me, kind of gave me, awindow into like life without
alcohol and how do I feeldifferent.
And I certainly noticed thatthere was a direct correlation
with the sleep, because you know, if I had a couple of glasses
of wine, I'd wake up at two orthree in the morning, I wouldn't
be able to get back to sleep,I'd be dehydrated, I'd feel kind

(03:41):
of yucky, and then I'd finallyget back to sleep and then I'd
be woken up with hot flashesaround 5 am and I was literally
at my wits end with thatconundrum and I realized that I
could do one or the other, butnot both.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Right, and I think a lot of women realize that.
I see a lot of women in myclinical practice who are
entering the perimenopausal timeof their lives.
They're experiencing hotflashes, night sweats, heart
palpitations, anxiety, dry skin,hair loss.
And when I talk to them aboutalcohol especially if they want
to entertain hormone therapy andare interested in the risk of

(04:23):
breast cancer, especially withcombined hormone therapy I'll
ask them how much they drink andif they notice and I don't even
have to ask them half the time.
But they pretty much all say ifI don't drink alcohol, I sleep
better, I don't get the nightsweats and my hot flashes are

(04:44):
reduced.
But some women use alcohol totreat their perimenopausal and
menopausal symptoms because theysay it helps them to actually
get to sleep.
It may not help women to stayasleep and then some women also
feel that alcohol helps themsleep much better or it helps
their anxiety and so they drinkfor that.
So they're kind of drinking notto celebrate, not to cheer

(05:07):
somebody on, not because they'regetting together with friends.
They're actually drinking totreat symptoms of perimenopause
and menopause.
Were there specific symptoms?
You mentioned the hot flashes,but any other symptoms that
alcohol seemed to worsen for you?

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Oh yeah, like just my overall energy.
I would say like again all ofthe insight that like if we, if
we are gradually increasing ourdrinking or we're, you know,
just having one a day orwhatever like you don't really
like there's no kind ofbenchmark in terms of how you
would feel without it, and Iwould encourage anyone who's

(05:45):
feeling kind of sluggish andjust thinking that it's aging or
perimenopause, that to justgive your body a break from
alcohol for a month and see howyou feel and if that feels good,
then try 100 days and see howthat feels.
And like my experience in doingit was like I.

(06:06):
So I graduated from a 30 daylike dry January to 100 day
challenge in I guess it was 2023.
And I couldn't believe how goodI felt, like my energy was back
.
And listen, as a sexual healtheducator you're you know, I'm

(06:28):
going to say it out loud I hadorgasms more easily.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Without alcohol.
Yep, there you go, a plug formy work.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
I knew I had to mention that to your listeners
because and I wouldn't say that,like I'm a pretty private
person but I'm like, okay, ifhaving more energy isn't enough
for you, if reducing your riskof cancer isn't enough for you,
if, you know, reducing your riskof heart disease isn't enough
for you, if sleeping betterisn't enough for you, how about
your sex life?
Come on and literally and thatwas a really, really big

(07:00):
realization for me Like I justfelt more present and as awkward
.
And as you know, I know a lotof people use alcohol to kind of
relax in, you know, intimatesituations and it's associated
stereotypically with romance andwhatever.
But really it's dulling yoursenses, Like that, that kind of
fun feeling of the fuzzy edgesand numbing out a bit when you

(07:22):
are in an intimate situationwith someone, like it might help
you kind of enter that, but toactually like orgasm it's not
going to help you.
And it's the same story, Maureen, as you know, with sleep.
It's like alcohol helps you getto sleep but it does not help
you stay asleep.
And in fact alcohol, you knowthere's four main levels of

(07:44):
sleep and alcohol stops you fromgetting to those deeper, really
, really nourishing levels ofsleep the level three and level
four, the REM sleep, where ourbrains are literally cleaning
themselves Okay.
So yes, there's an initial kindof buzz and that's fun and
maybe that feels good, but inthe end alcohol adds to anxiety.

(08:07):
It reduces our ability to bepresent, to experience pleasure
and to fully be ourselves.
I think.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
And sticking with that sexual health theme, which
I absolutely love.
You know, so many women presentto my clinical practice
experiencing some of the typicaland atypical, or ones that are
lesser known, symptoms ofmenopause, but from hot flashes
to night sweats, to anxiety, todry skin, to burning tongue, to
itching ears, to vaginal drynessand leakage of urine, urgency

(08:38):
and low libido.
And they don't tie that toalcohol, you know.
And alcohol is absorbeddifferently in women than men.
And also when the hormonalfluctuations occur, as they do
during perimenopause, when thehormonal fluctuations occur as
they do during perimenopause, Iwould imagine that has an impact

(09:00):
on absorption of alcohol.
But they come in asking fortestosterone these days because
there's a lot of influencers onsocial media who are pushing
testosterone for low libido onwomen, because, even though the
evidence is not there and it'snot approved for that purpose in
North America, you know.

(09:21):
But are we looking at thealcohol consumption?
um, for women, and you know, alot of women are not willing to
give up their gin, their winetheir you know, um aperol
spritzers, uh, even though itcan be, as you say, related to
low libido and the experience,the female sexual response, the

(09:42):
experience of desire and orgasm.
And you know, going through thatwhole, you know the lubrication
, the arousal, I should say thearousal, the desire, because,
especially if in a long-termrelationship plateau and orgasm,
so that can impact that femalesexual response cycle because,
as you say, it really can numbus.
And a lot of people say that wetalked in the past about the

(10:08):
gray area of drinking.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat please?
Because if somebody's listeningto this and thinking I don't
have a problem with alcohol, I'mnot an alcoholic, alcoholics
are.
You know they're living on thestreets, they're not working,
they're not.
You know, it's my understandingthat 90% of alcoholics are
functional alcoholics, so inother words, they're living in
the white pillared homes in thesuburbs.

(10:28):
It's much more common than werealize and you know it really
can be toxic, especially to thebrain.
But tell us a little bit aboutthat gray area of drinking.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah for sure.
So I mean there's there's twoconcerns around alcohol.
One, as you've we've just beenjumping into, is around health
risks and cancer risk and heartdisease risk and that type of
thing.
But the other one is aroundaddiction and that's the one
that sort of gets the mostattention.
Like when people arequestioning their relationship
with alcohol, what they mean isI am not an alcoholic right, so

(11:04):
they're not necessarily going.
Wow, my risk, for you knowseven different types of cancer
is kind of elevated even with aslittle as a drink a day.
So my experience with gray areaaddiction what I mean by that is
it doesn't present in thisstereotypical, like all the
things you just said someonefalling down in the street.
He's kind of lost everythingand they've lost their job,

(11:25):
they've lost their family.
And that was not my experienceof addiction.
It was a gradual realizing thatI was no longer free, I was no
longer in control, but I wasn'treally drinking that much.
Like it was very alcoholism.
I don't accept that it's adisease personally, but a lot of

(11:48):
people frame it that way.
It's either way that behavioris progressive.
So I, you know, I went fromdrinking occasionally to having
a glass of wine every day when Icame home from work, to pouring
myself another glass withdinner, pouring myself another
glass with dinner, to it beingthis sort of daily, ritualized,

(12:09):
sort of essential thing, tofinding that it never sort of
happened.
I never ran out of wine.
You know, I always noticedwhether people were drinking or
not in social situations andjust being really sensitive to
it, and so I call it gray areabecause it doesn't, it's not
obvious and you know I wasn'tdrinking a bottle of wine a day.
I was probably drinking sort ofa half to two-thirds at the
height of my drinking.
Okay, so to a lot of peoplethat's not going to sound

(12:32):
extreme, that's going to soundmaybe normal for some people,
which is fine, but everybody isdifferent and in my case it was
exacerbated by perimenopause.
The things I wasn't an alcoholicand like for starters I don't

(12:59):
love the word alcoholic, itcarries so much judgment but
they were like you're fine, youknow you don't like whatever,
you're not waking up and havingbeer for breakfast and doing
embarrassing things and whatever.
But I was like, no like for me.
The kind of hallmark ofaddiction for me is is I thought
about it so much, like it wassomething that had a grip on my

(13:22):
mind and that it just occupiedwhat I call mental real estate.
Of like this worrying of like,am I an alcoholic or am I not an
alcoholic?
When, in fact, the questionthat I should have been asking
myself and I encourage people toask is like is alcohol, do I
have a net positive relationshipwith alcohol in my life?
Does it give me more than ittakes?

(13:43):
Is it, am I free?
It's really what it comes downto.
When the question is aroundaddiction, when the question is
around health, I think peoplereally need to be looking at the
new guidelines by the USSurgeon General, by the Canadian
Center for Substance Use andAddiction, the World Health
Organization, like, really lookat, what does the American

(14:07):
Cancer Society tell you aboutbreast cancer and alcohol, or
the Canadian Cancer Society, forthat matter.
Like, especially for women,like alcohol causes breast
cancer.
I'm sorry, it just does.
It's an endocrine disruptor, itincreases estrogen, it depletes
testosterone in most women andyou know, I think these are
things that and thank you forbringing me on the show and
thank you for being soknowledgeable about these things

(14:28):
already, because it's like somany people don't know that they
just think it's wine.
I'm just having my wine with my.
It's my me time, it's mygirlfriend time and it's like
this could really be hurting you, right?

Speaker 1 (14:40):
So many women who, after they've been diagnosed
with breast cancer, will comeback to the clinic and they'll
say they told me to stopdrinking alcohol.
I had no idea that alcoholcaused breast cancer, and you
know.
And also their health.
You know, when women quitalcohol, they noticeably feel
much better.
You know, and also their health.
You know.
When women quit alcohol, theynoticeably feel much better.
You know, fairly immediately.

(15:01):
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(15:44):
And so I imagine quittingalcohol helped your hormonal
symptoms in perimenopause, likethe night sweats you described,
or I don't know if you werehaving mood swings, but you did
mention fatigue, and these arevery common complaints in
perimenopause.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, I mean, it just made Maureen, it just made my
whole life better and you know,I hit menopause in December of
2020.
So I was fully in, like I wasin COVID, like life kind of
sucked.
Covid, like life kind of sucked, and I just got to the point

(16:21):
where I just I knew that Ineeded to take better care of
myself.
Like I obviously I wish I quitmuch earlier in my life, but it
was like there's no way out butthrough, like I'm not getting
any younger.
My, you know, and it was sortof the only thing that I knew to
do.
That was the best, single, mostnumber one thing I could do to

(16:41):
take care of myself, to stopmaking space for it, to stop
making excuses, to stop sayingoh, just one, and then one
becomes two and la, la, la, liketrying to moderate and all that
stuff.
Like every single part of mylife has benefited from getting
rid of alcohol.
Honestly, every single one.
Like all of my menopausalsymptoms, my anxiety, my self

(17:03):
doubt, my energy, my workouts,my sleep, my sex life, my, you
know, just overall well being,that's fantastic, and I'm just
curious because I know thatoftentimes doctors or healthcare
providers don't talk aboutalcohol and hormonal health.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
I mean, it's hard enough for sex, hard enough for
them to talk about any of thosesubjects, never mind put them
all together.
Did you receive support fromhealthcare providers about the
interaction between alcohol andhormonal health or sexual health
, or did you figure this all outon your own?

Speaker 2 (17:37):
You know, it's a conversation that is just
happening right now and, unlessI've missed it, because really
again it's this red herring ofit being all about addiction and
it's like no, no, no, no, no.
This is a public health issueand it starts with very low
levels of alcohol consumption.
But I even I was on a call witha very famous OBGYN doctor and

(18:01):
asked her I didn't read anythingabout alcohol in her book about
menopause.
And her answer to my questionin an online like huge forum was
basically that it was no bigdeal.
And I received a similar answerfrom my family doctor when I
told her I was concerned aboutit and this is many years ago
and you know she said how muchare you drinking?
And I said a glass or two ofwine a day.

(18:22):
And she's like you know what?
You've got a me it's no bigdeal.
And here's like a worldrenowned women's health expert
telling me it's no big deal.
And yet in my heart I knew thatsomething wasn't right and I

(18:46):
forget the rest of the questionyou just asked me.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
I'm so sorry, no, no, no, just asking about if you
provide, if you were providedwith support from your doctor,
for example you know aboutalcohol and hormonal health and
sexual health.
Just figuring it out on yourown.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, but interestingly, I attended a
screening of the M-Factor acouple of weeks ago and I asked
one of the people on the panel,dr Sukhpreet Patel from
MenopauseWise and about.
I said what do women inperimenopause and menopause need
to know about alcohol?
And she was all over it andfrom everything from cancer risk

(19:25):
, sleep disruption, energydepletion, mental health, brain
health.
Like you know, people don'tknow that alcohol attacks the
brain.
You know like like that's how itworks right.
That's why you feel good.
It's because your prefrontalcortex is essentially taken
offline and anyways.
She was very up on all of thatand I was really, really excited

(19:47):
to hear her response to myquestion and that's posted on my
LinkedIn feed as well.
And yeah, so, no, I didn't, butI did so much reading Maureen
and so much podcast listening.
There are so many incrediblewomen who are talking now openly
about sobriety and alcohol andaddiction and whatever all these

(20:09):
things, because one of thebiggest problems is the social
taboo around it.
It took me years to and this isagain relates to the gray area
thing Like it was like I to bean alcoholic when I was growing
up, like that's a terrible thingto be and and I knew like that
that was.
There was so much judgmentaround it and blah, blah, blah.
And anytime you try and talk tosomebody about drinking,

(20:31):
there's the like people kind offreak out and it's not a neutral
thing.
It's something that's peoplefeel a sense of judgment around
it in a way that isn't likeother things.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
And absolutely there's so much stigma and I
think you're using moreprogressive terms like substance
use disorder, alcohol usedisorder, you know versus that
labeling of alcoholic Because,as you say, you know it really
is not necessarily about howmuch you're drinking, but it
might be related to bingedrinking, or you have to drink

(21:06):
every day, or you're treatingsymptoms that you're
experiencing that are you knowwhere you're not feeling good
and so you're figuring thatalcohol will make you feel
better and it might for thefirst 20 minutes.
What?
What did you find that?
What were some of the biggestchallenges you faced in
maintaining sobriety whilenavigating hormonal changes and

(21:28):
like things?
Like you know, did friends, youknow friends, like friends to
drink with them?
You know there's a lot ofpressure.
People don't want to drinkalone.
That's one of the things.
Did you experience that or didyou have other challenges to
maintain sobriety?

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, and so many things.
Maureen, I guess my firstthought to that is that once I
like I was struggling so hardthat by the time I did quit and
I knew it was my last day and Iknew it was just time to let go,
and I knew how much better Iwas going to feel, like it

(22:04):
wasn't even really a challengeLike the.
To me, the challenge wasstruggling with my relationship
with alcohol and the idea ofmaintaining, like I'd struggled
with trying to, you know, besober or not sober, and la, la,
la at that point, for like fiveyears, by the time I quit for
good, and so messing with, youknow, so-called moderation and

(22:26):
um which, by the way, I think iskind of a joke Um, and you know
my dry January stuff, and do Igo back?
And then this hundred daychallenge, and then do I go back
to drinking, and so was this.
I was so exhausted by that thatby the time I like I was like I
am so done, like I'm notscrewing around with this for
another minute.
I felt fantastic and I justknew that this was the right

(22:51):
choice for me and that, nomatter what, like it, just the
temptation was gone.
It was like leaving a badrelationship, honestly, and I
felt free and I felt relievedand I knew that all the benefits
would be there for me because Ihad experimented with it so
many times.
Like it wasn't like, oh, Iwonder if I'll sleep better.

(23:12):
It's like, oh, I can't wait tosleep well and feel well-rested
and energized.
So, yeah, I had some weirdstuff with people a little bit,
but mostly I think I don't know,people just knew that it was
what was right for me and I knownow that and I started writing
about it and I've written.

(23:33):
I don't know a good like 10essays on Medium about my
journey with this and so manypeople have written to me on
LinkedIn or people I don't evenknow and just thanking me for
telling my story and that helped.
And you know, those littleniggly bits, like I get a bit
annoyed if I'm around people whoare kind of drunk, like I don't

(23:53):
enjoy that and my, you know, Ifeel lonely sometimes when other
people are drinking and I'm not, because once people have had a
couple of drinks, like I justdon't feel like I'm on the same
page as they are anymore andthat can be hard and that's, I
think, what a lot of people fearis like, oh my God, if I go to
book club and everybody else isdrinking wine, or if I go for
this dinner party and everybodyelse is drinking like whatever

(24:15):
everybody else is drinking wine.
Or if I go for this dinner partyand everybody else is drinking
like whatever, you do feel a bitlonely but I don't care.
It's like there's nothing thatis worth it about drinking for
me ever again for the rest of mylife to have the feelings that
I had about it, to have thefears that I had about it, to
have the anxiety that I had.
You know all of that stuff, andnot to mention the health risks

(24:36):
.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Oh my God, like I'm the winner here.
That's for sure, absolutely.
You know, a lot of people areafraid of stopping drinking
because they have this.
I've heard this from manypeople.
They have this in their mind.
I can never have another drinkagain.
Did you experience thatphenomenon?

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, I mean I was scared right, like it would be
like because I loved drinking,like I really did.
It was like a friend and thenso what do you do without your
friend?
Like how do you know?
But it was a process, I guess Iwould say, of unlearning and
also realizing that it wasn'tactually a friend.
It was this fake thing.
Like how can a level onecarcinogen be a friend?

(25:13):
You know?
Like it's just not, it's notreality, like it's we are being
marketed to, like when you go toa you know a liquor store and
there's cupcake, wine and allthis nonsense, and like it's.
It's so sad to me.
Now I'm, like you know, surewine is delicious, makes you
feel good for 20 minutes.
If you have one glass, okay,great, but it's not worth it.

(25:36):
Like in the end, and especiallyif you do develop a dependent
relationship with it, like I did, it's just, it's in no way.
It's in no way worth it.
Like I know that my cancer riskhas gone way down, my heart
disease risk is way down.
You know there are so manythings that are good that risk

(25:58):
is way down.
You know there are so manythings that are good, that
feeling like I'm missing it orI'm not missing anything.
It's not worth the risk for me.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Right, exactly, and you know a lot of people require
support programs AA, forexample, or other online
programs that are available.
12-step programs Did you needthat?
Do you recommend that?
What are your thoughts on thosetypes of programs?
Are you able to do this all onyour own?

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, no, for me it was a combination of just doing
a ton of research, which reallyhelped me.
It's like once you sort ofstart to realize the truth about
alcohol, it sort of wakes youup and you can't stop.
You can't unsee that.
Wakes you up and you can't stop.
You can't unsee that.
But interestingly, maureen, Iwas introduced to an online

(26:45):
group called the Luckiest Club,which was a huge support to me
in my first year of sobriety and, in fact, the way my day one
happened was attending my firstmeeting of the group, and you're
going to love this story.
The person who was the featuredspeaker was a woman who was
celebrating her one-yearsobriety anniversary and her
name was Hope.
Hope, oh, for real.

(27:06):
And and she told her story andit wasn't.
Her story was not like mine, itwas.
It was different, but likethere she was and, if anything,
her, her story was way harder,what she went through, but she
was sitting there and she waslike a ray of light and I just
wanted to be her so badly likeand she was so happy and she was

(27:27):
so proud and she was so free.
She was telling everybody howamazing she was feeling and I
was like I am doing this rightnow.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
There is no clearer sign.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
I require no further evidence and it was just amazing
.
So, yeah, I attended thosemeetings for a year and, like I
said, it was during COVID and sothe you know, the availability
of everything online just wentthrough the roof and that was
great.
But the biggest therapy for mehas been writing about it and

(28:00):
just as a way to share it withlots of people, and so I don't
attend meetings anymore.
I've never really connectedwith the 12-step philosophy, but
it's amazing.
I know lots really connectedwith the 12-step philosophy, but
it's amazing.
I know lots of people for whomit's been great, but there are
so many Like there's been thisincredible, like the resources
for people who are sober,curious or want to get sober,
whatever's going on.

(28:20):
Holy moly, there is so much nowonline.
It's just amazing.
And there's so manynon-alcoholic beverages and
there's all this thing.
There's never been a bettertime to get sober.
And yeah, I would justencourage anyone just to just
see what happens.
You know, quit for 30 days andsee what it's like.
And you know, see what younotice.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
Right, exactly, and yes, you're right.
There are so many options todayonline.
I think that was one of thebenefits of the pandemic, if we
can count a few, so you know.
Just in wrapping up, madeline,what advice would you give to
other women who are inperimenopause or menopause,
experiencing symptoms and youknow are consuming, you know,

(29:02):
alcohol consistently or areconsidering giving up alcohol?
What advice would you give orconsidering?

Speaker 2 (29:08):
giving up alcohol.
What advice would you give?
I like that kind ofexperimental approach, like to
kind of go I am quitting forever.
Like that can feel veryoverwhelming.
And you know, one of the goodthings I think about the 12
steps is they have this mantraof one day at a time and it's
like just see how you feel, likejust you know, without setting
huge, massive goals, like ifquitting forever feels

(29:30):
liberating for you, and that youdon't need to make up your mind
every single day not to drinkand struggling like am I doing
this, am I not doing this?
Like just make it achievableand and notice.
Like notice, like how do I feel?
Do I feel a sense of anxiety?
Am I thinking about drinking?
Is there a voice inside my headand this one is huge For me I

(29:51):
had a voice that I don't knowwhen it started, but it came
into my life and it basicallystarted telling me to drink and
it said things like you deserveit.
You've had a hard day.
You're, you know whatever.
You work so hard.
No, no, no.
You do so much.
You take care of so many otherpeople.
Blah, blah, blah.

(30:11):
You deserve a glass of wine.
You made such a nice mealtonight you deserve a glass of
wine.
If there is a voice inside yourhead that is telling you that
you deserve to drink.
Pay attention, because it'slike this is.
It's a well known phenomenon ofaddictive like it's a common
symptom of addiction, and so Iwould encourage people to watch

(30:33):
out for that.
I would encourage people tojust, yeah, take a break and see
how you feel, and see if youfeel better and know that it is
possible to let it go.
You don't need to be scaredthat.
It's a journey for sure.
To be scared that it's ajourney for sure.

(30:53):
But you know, I for onewouldn't change a thing.
If anything, I wish I'd quitearlier and I feel fantastic and
I just wish everybody goodhealth and freedom.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Well, you've quit now , and that's wonderful, and I
just wanted to mention for womenlistening out there if you're
considering that you might havean alcohol use disorder, you
might ask yourself questionslike are you drinking more
alcohol over a longer periodthan you originally had intended
?
Are you unable to stop onceyou've started?
Are you unsuccessfully tryingto cut down or control your

(31:21):
alcohol use?
Do you have a craving or astrong desire or urge to use
alcohol?
And does your drinkinginterfere with responsibilities
at home, at work or at school?
And sometimes you have to askyourself those questions because
only you know the answer, thetrue answer, even if somebody
else doesn't find out that youmaybe, you know, miss something

(31:43):
because of your alcohol use, butthere's no shame either.
And, as you can see, alcohol use, but there's no shame either.
And, as you can see, it can bea beautiful thing because it can
, as we've heard from MadelineShaw, it can certainly impact
your life in a good way Moreenergy, less night sweats, less

(32:04):
hot flashes, fewer palpitationsand a better mood.
Madeline, you've always been adelight since I've known you.
And you're even more delightfulnow Because I can hear the
happiness in your voice and andthe relief and you know I love
the fact that you're educatingand encouraging other women and
de stigmatizing this and sharingyour stories, because when

(32:26):
women share their stories, theyempower other women.
So namaste to you.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate you comingon the podcast.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Thanks, friend.
This has been a wonderfulconversation and thank you so
much for the work that you'redoing.
It's so valuable and I'mhonored to be part of it.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
You're so sweet Madeline.
Shaw is a writer and socialentrepreneur.
She is the author of theGreater Good.
It's available online at Amazonand through her website,
madelineshawca.
I am Maureen McGrath.
If you think that somebodywould benefit from tuning into
this episode, feel free to share, and thank you so much for
tuning in.
I always appreciate it.

(33:03):
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