Why Are Women Expected to Work For Free?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Good evening and welcome to Nurse Maureen's
Health Show podcast.
I am Maureen McGrath, yourregistered nurse, nurse,
continence advisor, sexualhealth educator, and I also try
and empower women a little bit,and that's what this show is
about and that's what we'restarting off the new year with.
Hopefully you've all hadwonderful holidays and you're

(00:22):
getting back to it.
I have to admit I'm gettingback to it kind of slowly, but
here we go.
I'm so excited to talk to mynext guest, a registered
environmental health specialist.
I met her on LinkedIn after Iposted a story somewhat of a
story that I was frustratedabout, because it's something
you've probably heard about thegender pay gap.

(00:46):
But it isn't exactly the genderpay gap, because the gender pay
gap is the difference inaverage earnings of people based
on gender.
It is a widely recognizedindicator of gender inequities
and it exists across industriesand professional levels and
there's different ways ofmeasuring the gap, but no matter
how you measure it, the the gapstill exists and this is kind

(01:07):
of a sub-variant of that.
So let me explain that.
The gender pay gap obviouslythe difference in pay for people
and it's worse for those whoface multiple barriers,
including racialized women,indigenous women and women with
disabilities.
It differs by age group and thegap starts from a young age and
it carries into senior yearsand has an impact on quality of

(01:29):
life and poverty as well,because earnings are a key
determinant of economicwell-being in North America and
around the world, and it's alsosymbolic of gender-based
discrimination and injustice,and that's according to Moiser
Statistics, canada 2019.
This is kind of a sub-variantof it, and we know that women

(01:51):
get paid less than men typicallyfor the same job.
But there's another thing thatoccurs out there all too
frequently, and dare I say thatit's more common that women ask
women to do this for free, andthat is work for free.
Hence my LinkedIn post, and mypost was about being asked to be

(02:11):
a keynote speaker at an event.
It was a finance event and itwas a wealth event.
It wasn't even just a financeevent, it was a wealth event and
it was going to be held at a swswanky place and the ticket
prices were high and you knowthere were addition in addition
to me, there were going to be,you know, 50, 60 other speakers
leading workshops and that kindof thing, and when I mentioned

(02:34):
that, I had a speaker's feebecause I've been speaking for,
you know, 10 or 15 years now andit does take time.
There's a lot of prep, not tomention on the day, and then
follow up, you know, preppingyour presentation.
It's a tremendous amount ofwork and I have a certain
expertise in this particularfield.
And when I mentioned that on theZoom call with the person, the

(02:57):
person was visibly shocked thatI would have wanted to be fairly
compensated for my services.
Mind you, they were going to beselling tickets and, you know,
bringing in wealth, customersand clients, and anyway, the
response to my asking for faircompensation was to tell me that

(03:18):
they were not-for-profitorganization.
Well, yeah, I understand.
Not-for-profit organizationsDoesn't mean that they can't pay
people or that they can't makerevenue, which she was
definitely going to begenerating revenue.
It hasn't happened yet.
It's a year in advance.
That was the other thing.
You know, I really don't knowwhat I'm going to be doing a
year from now, but anyway, tobook my calendar out that far

(03:40):
and to not compensate me, I justthought absolutely not.
I have worked for free in thepast, I have spoken for free and
you know there came a time whenI started to resent that
because it would take a Saturdayaway from me or you know, there
was a lot more prep than Irealized.
Anyway, that's why I'm soexcited to speak to Kim Dillian,
our environmental healthspecialist, who has encountered

(04:02):
the same issue before.
I got a number of comments onmy LinkedIn post about this
particular issue and I wouldlove to hear from you.
You can text the show if thishas been your experience as well
.
Kim, great to have you on theprogram.
You're joining me fromNashville, tennessee, one of my
favorite cities.
How are you?

Speaker 2 (04:20):
I'm very well, I'm home and I'm warm and all is
good.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Well, that's wonderful.
That's more than I can say forCanada.
I'm freezing.
Anyway, it's a little chillyhere in the great white north,
but nonetheless great to haveyou.
So, first of all, thank you somuch for joining the podcast.
I really appreciate it.
I also want to thank you forcommenting on my LinkedIn post.
You recall my post?

(04:45):
Yes, yes, that I wrote aboutout of frustration, and also
about women do not need to workfor free, and we need to
actually stop working for freeNow.
You've had experiences similarto this as well, haven't you?

Speaker 2 (05:00):
A gentleman from a health department on the East
Coast said hey, can you come anddo this presentation for our
health department?
I said yes, and I gave him mycard and I said call me and
we'll talk money, because I'mnot going to do this for free.
And he kind of gave me thislook and he said well, we really
want to have you come and dothis presentation.

(05:22):
I said give me a call and we'lltalk.
Do you think I ever heard fromhim?
No, so I'm still.
I'm not, as I'm not as willingto do that sort of thing anymore
.
I'm a senior environmentalhealth specialist.
I've been doing this for 18years.
I have great skills, I you know, but I just I'm not.

(05:42):
I can't give away my timebecause the older I get, time is
one of my most preciousresources and my money.
And how do I spend my money?
I can't give away my time togive a presentation which really

(06:05):
benefits the juniorenvironmental health
professionals who are just brandnew since the pandemic.
So it gave me pause to thinkabout a lot of different things
and let me tell you I tick a lotof diversity boxes, diversity
boxes.
And it's even more frustratingbecause I know I'm fantastic at

(06:28):
what I do, but I don't thinkthat people appreciate that
about me and they think that, oh, you're a woman and kind of
middle-aged, and what else areyou going to do with your time?
Well, I have a lot to do.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
I think it goes back to women's work is not valued.
There's something intrinsic inthat and you know that that's
sort of the idea like whywouldn't you do it for free?
You know, somebody else on thispost that I wrote got thousands
of views and so many comments.
But one of the comments wasfrom a woman who wrote you know

(07:03):
your point is well taken.
But one of the comments wasfrom a woman who wrote you know
your point is well taken, I havespoken for free, aka the
exposure, practice, opportunityor whatever they convince you to
do, whatever they convince youthat you are not on the budget.
And then she went on to say but, like you, I find it hard not
to resent, mostly myself forsaying yes, yes, absolutely, I
do speak for almost free.

(07:23):
She said five hundred500honorarium for charity events.
You know this is the thing.
I've had this as well.
I was recently asked I can't doit because I'm actually not
going to be in town.
I was recently asked to speakto a group of people about
sexual health and sexlessmarriage, which is something I
have expertise in and no offerof money.

(07:44):
I had actually spoken for thisperson before for free, ended up
resenting myself, um.
But they came back and and andsaid you know, can you speak at
this event?
I'm sure you'll get a lot ofnew clients as a result of it.
You know, I?
I mean, I didn't want to haveto say you know, do I have to
say this again?
I actually don't work for free.
This is my work that I do.

(08:06):
And but you know, it worked outthat because I think women were
kind of afraid to speak up andsay you know, people are going
to judge us if we say we'd liketo be compensated and you know,
and compensated fairly for thework that we do.
But you know, it's good thatyou went back and asked how can

(08:30):
um, at that conference that youdid?
You know what are some waysthat you can compensate me if
you're not going to write me acheck, because I also think we
don't think about that.
Or, you know, may I have freeregistration to this event?
You know, ask the question.
And and also, then I think wehave to say no.
I said no to this wealth eventand I've never looked back.
I'm so glad, actually, becauseyou know I have about 10 or 20

(08:52):
events lined up already thisyear and I just didn't need
another one where I'm not goingto be fairly compensated.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Right, there's a lot of self-respect in the word no.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
There certainly is, and it's just like you know.
If I had agreed to that, it was.
You know it's at least 40, 50hours of prep time and
presentation as well, and you'realso, as you pointed out,
you're sharing your expertise.
You know.
You, your comment on myLinkedIn post was about not for
profit, and this person I mean Iwas born at night, but not last

(09:31):
night when she wrote back andsaid you know, we've made so
much progress, we've gotten 50other women to speak for free
and we're not.
We're not for profit status,and it's like I mean, you know,
that does not mean that youexpect people to work for free
Just for the listeners.
Can you explain whatnot-for-profit is?
Because oftentimes I thinkpeople will say well, we're a
charity, we're not-for-profit,so which guilts women in

(09:51):
particular into speaking forfree?

Speaker 2 (09:54):
People do not understand that a non-profit is
an organization that has abusiness license in the
communities that they work.
If they're a true non-profitwith the United States Internal
Revenue Service as a non-501c3,it's for educational purposes,
and what that means is you canwrite grants and if you receive

(10:15):
a million dollars in grants, youtake that money and you pay
workers, you pay for theirbenefits, you pay for
conferences, you put the moneyback into the nonprofit for the
betterment of the community thatyou serve.
It doesn't mean that you don'tpay yourself a salary.
It doesn't mean that you expectqualified, talented, skillful

(10:39):
people to work for free.
So I think there's a generalmisunderstanding about
nonprofits and there, if theyhave 501c3 status, there are
reporting requirements that theyhave to follow and otherwise,
in other words, they file a taxreturn and it should be public.
If they're receiving publicmoney from state government,
from federal government, thosetax returns should be made

(11:03):
public and they need to betransparent because the taxpayer
dollars go to fund thatparticular nonprofit.
So it just it just means thatthey can't.
And I'm not I'm not a businessmajor by any means, but I think
people use that word nonprofitto guilt people into.
Oh, you know what my mom calledit, you know, crying the poor

(11:24):
mouth and it's like, no, that'snot what it is.
And if you're charging aregistration fee and you're
working in the cost of speakers,if you raise I mean, I'm sure
it's math, excuse me there hasto be a better way to work the
numbers, because and to pay thepeople who are teaching, the up

(11:50):
and coming people in theprofession and in the industry.
So absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
And you know they wanted to draw women in.
I do women's health and I dowomen's intimate health and
menopause and sexual health, andso this was a women's wealth
conference, and so you know Iwas being used to draw, you know
, women who are interested inthat subject, and that's a large
percentage of women in theirhighest earning years, and then,

(12:16):
not to compensate me, that's.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
that's no good.
I think of the conferences aswell.
There's an exhibition hall andthere's you know a hundred
exhibitors, and I know what theyhave to pay to get a spot in
that exhibition hall.
Well, where does that money go?
And so I started looking at thefinancials and thinking wait a
minute.
They have this much money inreserve every year, why aren't

(12:40):
they, you know, paying thepeople that come and do?
And I know the annualeducational conference is one of
the big money makers for thisassociation.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Now, as a result of this post and I have to say,
I've held events myself.
I pay everybody.
You know interesting one eventwhere I think I've said twice in
my life I'm never working forfree anymore.
And then I went back, Idisappointed myself and I did
work for free one other time andthat time I learned that the um

(13:09):
, there were four men involvedand three or four female
speakers.
The men were compensated, thewomen were given a token, you
know, gift certificate for afree coffee and muffin at a
local coffee shop.
And when I spoke to the womanwho was the organizer, she said

(13:30):
well, the men wouldn't work forfree.
And I think we as women have tosay well, we're not going to
work for free either.
And so, as a result, I just wantto say I have a speaker's fee
and a lot of women who commentedon my post, who also agreed,
you know, women should be fairlycompensated for their expertise
.
They had a speaker's fee aswell, and I have.
I actually have a media sheet.

(13:50):
You know, this is what thiswill cost if you would like me
to come, and you know, and speakat your event.
But also, somebody reached outand they said you know, they did
a lot of women's empowermentwork and you know, work to
advance the progress of women,and they had events, but they
said they never paid any of thewomen.

(14:10):
And then this year, afterreading my post, she decided
that she was going to pay thewomen and she said one of the
issues, the biggest issue, wasgetting women to know their
worth, you know, to tell her howmuch they wanted to be
compensated for.
You know their, their talks,basically their presentations,

(14:31):
and she said it was like pullingteeth.
That was so difficult to do,which is interesting as well,
because we it's sort of tiedfinances and women.
You know they're kind of tied.
You know we're not reallytaught about it or we're taught
to be shamed.
You know ashamed about ourfinances, or you know we're not
really taught about it or we'retaught to be shamed.
You know, ashamed about ourfinances.
Or you know we're supposed tobe doing everything.

(14:53):
We're supposed to be the carers, the nurturers.
One fabulous book and I don'tknow if you've read it, but I
have read it is called Know yourValue by Mika Brzezinski.
Have you read that book?
I have not.
It's awesome and you know what.
And she describes a time whenshe was working three times as
much as her co-hosts.
They were napping in thebackground and they were getting
paid three times what she wasgetting paid.

(15:15):
She was saying at the end ofthe month she didn't have enough
money to do her hair, which wason her, or to buy any clothes.
And I would recommend everywoman to read that book.
It is awesome, terrific, soundsgreat.
She's with Morning Joe.
She's on the show Morning Joe.
That sounds terrific.

(15:35):
Yeah, it's really good.
But I think we need to startsaying no, no, I'm not going to
work for free, no, I'm not goingto work for less than what my
hourly wage has, you know, hasbeen deemed or or whatever.
And I think, you know, I thinkwe really need, in order for us
to, you know, close that genderpay gap, we need to start

(15:57):
setting some personal limits andboundary and professional
limits and boundaries as well.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
I agree, and so will you ever work for free, kim?
No, no, I'm never going to workfor free, kim.
No, no, I'm never going to workfor free again.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
And it comes back to what are the most precious
things in my life right now Timeand the time from work that I
get to do things that I like todo.
And if I want to volunteer forthe 4-H, which is my plan, I
talked to a guy from 4-H todayhere locally in Nashville and I
want to go work with fourthgraders a couple hours a week,

(16:34):
yes, but as far as myprofessional skills and you
talked about your hourly wage,your hourly compensation that
you receive from your employeror you have, you know, developed
that formula for yourself.
But it's all the collateralthings as well, like the prep
and the travel and to get to theairport and paying for your

(16:55):
parking at the airport and yourmeals and your you know, your
incidentals and your per diemand all those sorts of things.
So when you start adding it up,I mean that's easy to do, you
can just like put that number onpaper.
When you see the numbers, yes,like I know I'm, I'm going to be
compensated.
Or, thank you and, calm, callme when you can make it work for

(17:20):
both of us.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Exactly, and I have to say that I would get some
upset from my family.
You know, if I, well, startingwith my husband, who would
always say to me are you gettingpaid for it?
Because he knew he knows thetype of person that I am and he
knows that I would, you know,agree and you know, feel badly
and want to help out.
And he would say, you know, areyou getting compensated?

(17:43):
And if I wasn't, you know hewould be why are you doing that
for free?
And you know we could be doingthis and you're doing that on a
Saturday and you're not evengetting paid.
You know, and also, I have tosay, male friends of mine who I
might have shared the story withyou know they're just like, why
wouldn't they pay you?
You're a professional speaker.
You know like why, and not evenI don't even consider myself a

(18:03):
professional speaker, butwhatever that means.
But a professional speaker, butwhatever that means.
But you know I do speaking aspart of the work that I do, and
it's just like, you know they,the men's mentality was very
different than the women's, whowere like well, you know if it's
going to increase your exposure, but you know it's up to me to
increase my exposure if I wantmore work as a result, and

(18:24):
typically it never comes anyway.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
I might add.
You know, that reminds me of isthis whole in the past couple
of years is the influencers whogo to these businesses and
demand free food and freeservices and free swag, because
it'll give that company quoteunquote exposure.
And it's the same kind ofconcept and and I know, when I

(18:52):
heard about that I was, I wasreally upset.
I'm like how could anyone Idon't care what influencer you
are, what you know social mediaplatform you're on you have how
dare you walk into this cakeshop who makes wedding cakes and
demand a free wedding cake?
I just I can't get my headaround someone expecting

(19:17):
something for free.
And there's all different waysto talk it, talk about it and
make it sound good, but what itreally is is giving away my time
, giving away my expertise andno, it's not going to happen.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
Absolutely.
And you know I think people orwomen are nervous to decline an
offer because it's.
You know, it's good for our egowhen somebody asks us to speak,
but then when you find out no,you won't be compensated for it.
You know it's got to be thehard no, and other other
opportunities will come along.
You know, I remember thinkingthis will never happen again, I

(19:57):
won't get invited, because youknow.
But that's not the case.
You know there are otheropportunities that come.
You know, and if you're good atwhat you do and people know you
as a speaker, you know, and ifyou're good at what you do and
people know you as a speaker,you know you will be.
I mean, that's kind of the mostcommon one.
But I think there's consulting.
People are asked for their freeconsulting advice.
People are asked for freehealthcare advice.

(20:17):
You know, uh, women are, um,you know, oftentimes if they
have a particular skill, they'reasked.
You know, um, if somebody, if awoman, can do it for free.
But you know, I think it's,it's only fair and that's the
only way we're ever going toclose this gender gap.
You know we have to, and womenhave to support other women.
Women have to pay other womenand and I've held events I

(20:41):
always pay women and I get a lotof offers from women who'll say
, maureen, I'll work with youjust for the experience and you
don't have to pay me.
And I I say, don't say that tome, don't say that to anybody,
you know.
I really don't want.
I would not feel good if I weretaking all the money myself and
not paying.
You know people, this is not avolunteer situation when you're

(21:04):
holding a conference or you'reholding an event.
So I often will advise women.
You know, no, you must be paid.
Tell me what you, you know,would like to be paid, and if
they have difficulty, I'll tryand help them figure out what
would be fair compensation forthem.
And I just like that term, faircompensation.
I've said it a few timesbecause that's what it is.
It's not like women are askingfor you know way.

(21:26):
I mean, I'm sure there are, butyou know, just whatever your
value is, whatever it's beendetermined, it's an easy
mathematical equation and youknow women can figure it out and
women have to stand by and youknow they'll be more successful
at the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yes, and still have their self-respect and not be
just bitter.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
Exactly who wants to be a resentful person.
That's what I was just like.
I'm here all day at thisconference.
I am.
You know, it's a gorgeous dayout, I'm here all day.
And then there was an eventafterward that I felt obliged to
go to and I thought never again.
And I'd already prepped, youknow, several hours.
So you know, live and learn.
Experience is our greatestteachers, and you know, we don't

(22:09):
learn unless we fail through itand fall through it.
And, you know, decide I'm doingit differently the next time.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
So what's your listenership like?
And let's just talk numbershere for a sec.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Oh, now you're asking the tough questions.
You can ballpark it.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
So let's say you have 500 listeners, steady listeners
, to your podcast, and what if10% of those and let's say
they're all women, and we'regoing to pick 50 women decide
that they're not going to dothis anymore?
Some people want to do it inbaby steps.
That's fine, but let's say thatthis is really resonating with

(22:49):
amazing women who have beendoing this, have done it maybe
once and just don't like to saythe word no.
Well, you know what?
If 10%, 50 of those women sayyou know what, I'm not going to
do this anymore?
There are ways to do it, Likethe guy who came up after the
presentation and said, hey, wewant you to come and do this for
us.
Gave him my card, Said call me.

(23:09):
I said call me, We'll talk thenumbers.
And that's when he startslooking nervous and he starts
looking around.
Well, I, you know, well, wecan't pay you.
Well, think about it, work yourbudget and call me if you still
want me to come and do thispresentation.
So there you know and my thingis practicing in advance of how
to answer these questions, Causeif you're put on the spot

(23:31):
sometimes you know there's ahard sell and I don't say yes to
anything right away.
You know, I need some time togive this some thought, to see
if it will work with my, with myschedule.
That's right, it aligns with my, my work life.
So I mean, that's significant50 women and that's just 10

(23:54):
percent.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
I was delighted that one woman changed her ways and
said I'm always going to, I'vebeen running events for a while
and I've never paid women andbut henceforth I'm going to be
paying women.
I was delighted with that, youknow.
Another way to do it is, youknow, cause sometimes it's hard
to determine the number.
And so you know people, women,may want experience, you know
speaking, and so maybe start outsomething lower than normal and

(24:20):
then with each invitation, add25% to your fees until you get
to that saturation point thatsays you know people are saying
it's too expensive.
You know, and then you can kindof gauge that number because it
is hard to determine.
And you know differentgeographic areas, you know, have
a different level of whatthey'll pay.
You know oftentimes in the USthey pay a lot more than in

(24:40):
Canada, for example, now withthe Canadian dollar, you know
it's a heck of a lot more.
But you know just in general,because there's, you know, a lot
more people there, a lot moreresources, but you know.
So determine a number and thencontinue to add that 25% until
you get pushback, and that's howyou can set your market rate.
I really want to give women somestrategies that you know, to

(25:02):
help them, to be able to get theconfidence to say you know I'm
valuable, I know my worth andthis is the number and this is
how I'm going to set that number.
And you know, in a way you'reletting your clients decide what
your expertise is worth and itmight be different for different
people, like I have differentfees for different companies.

(25:24):
For certain industries I'llhave a different fee For certain
expectations I'll have adifferent fee, but two or three
different fees generally at atime and it seems to work.
So I have to say I feel like abit of a chicken where I I am
not available to do a particulartalk that I wasn't going to be
compensated for.
I'm going to be out of town, asI said, so I didn't have to say

(25:45):
I don't work for free.
Again, I've already said it tothe person they know.
But you know, they think,because they know me, that you
know that I that I should bedoing this, or because it's, for
, you know, a good cause, that Ishould be doing this, but I
can't do it.
But I, you know, I didn't say Ican't do it.
I, well, I don't want to do itbecause you're not going to pay

(26:07):
me, but I happen to be away atthe time, fortunately.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
So but you know.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
And then the other thing is like something better
might come up and you know whenyou may have said yes to a no
pay, you know no compensation,and then a compensation event or
opportunity might come up andyou don't have an opportunity to
say yes to that.
That's a very good point.
Yeah, you just never know.

(26:31):
But, kim, I really appreciateyou coming on the program and
talking about this.
It's been great.
Thank you so much.
It's such an important subject.
And how's Nashville, which iswhere you're joining us from?

Speaker 2 (26:43):
It's been snowing all day, snowing, wow, wow.
I woke up in the morning forcoffee and my favorite coffee
place was closed, oh my gosh.
So I walked around to Targetfor a little while and I had
talked to someone about snow andit was like a big joke and
they're like we don't haveenough money for snow, so just
don't expect too much.
I mean, I just from Boston afew weeks ago, right.

(27:06):
Then I heard that you know thebig, what's the big weather
event in Tennessee?
Well, it's tornadoes.
Well, if they can, if they areX amount of limited dollars, put
them towards tornadoes.
Let's do what we can with thesnow keep people off the street,
close the businesses.
I totally get that.
There's some give and take.
And then I came home and I'vebeen working from home all day
with a nice warm apartment andsome soup, and so it's still

(27:47):
snowing out there.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
So I'm okay, that's amazing, I love, okay, I'm
enjoying it.
One bar to the next, the musicand and I'm a huge music person
and the music from one locationto the next, it just got better
and better.
The people that I was travelingwith, you know, I the first
place we went into it was acardi b kind of um type of
musician and she was amazing,and and then I, and then my

(28:13):
colleague said so, we're going,we.
I said no, this is amazing, wehave to stay.
And then went to the next.
The next place was better, justas awesome.
I mean, it was fantastic LoveNashville.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
So I'm happy for you.
Even out in the suburbs, youcan go to Sunday brunch at your
tiny hometown diner and therewill be live music.
There will be a tree.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
It's just amazing.
Awesome, that's fantastic.
Well, enjoy Nashville, enjoythe snow.
I'm sure it won't last long.
And, and I mean the horrificweather we're having, uh, it's
been the horrible fires inCalifornia.
Shout out to all of thosepeople who've lost homes and, uh
, people who've lost their livesand their pets, and I mean it's

(28:55):
just so horrific.
Uh, some of the weather thatwe're seeing as a result of high
winds, and I mean you know myheart is just broken for those
people in California, in thosecommunities, and it's not all
wealthy people and it doesn'tmatter.
You know people lose theirhomes and their memories, and

(29:15):
you know their photos and it'sjust and it's just unbelievable.
So our thoughts and prayers forsure go out and if you can help
in any way, there's lots ofplaces online that are, you know
, providing you with theopportunity to help somebody
else.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Sorry, kim, you were going to say no worries, I was
going to say a shout out for ourfirst responders as well, who
are rallying and coming from allparts of the US and from Canada
yes, thousand percent, and talkabout not being compensated
fairly.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
I mean, you know the work that they do, their lives
are at stake and you knowthey're not a high paid group
whatsoever.
Anyway, thank you so much forthat and thanks so much once
again for joining the program,and no more, no more speaking
for free.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
You're most welcome.
Take care, and I'll belistening.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
That was Kim Dillian.
She is an environmental healthspecialist in Nashville,
tennessee, and I'm MaureenMcGrath, and if you feel that
you know somebody that maybenefit from this episode, feel
free to share the podcast.
I'd also love it if you woulddownload it, follow me or write
a review.
Thank you so much and Happy NewYear everybody.

(30:28):
Thanks so much for tuning in.
I'm Maureen McGrath and youhave been listening to the
Sunday Night Health Show podcast.
If you want to hear thispodcast or any other segment
again, feel free to go to iTunes, spotify or Google Play or
wherever you listen to yourfavorite podcasts.
You can always email me,nursetalk at hotmailcom or text
the show 604-765-9287.

(30:50):
That's 604-765-9287.
Or head on over to my websitefor more information,
maureenmcgrathcom.
It's been my pleasure to spendthis time with you.
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(31:13):
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