Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Maureen McGrath (00:03):
Sexual concerns, such as low desire,
arousal issues, lubrication,sexual pain, difficulty
experiencing orgasm, are validand common concerns, yet too
often dismissed or may gountreated.
My guests on tonight's episodeare committed to changing that
by working on a platform calledeSense that aims to offer
(00:23):
accessible, evidence-basedsupport for women's sexual
health and well-being.
Good evening.
I am Maureen McGrath,registered nurse, nurse
continence advisor, sexualhealth educator.
Thank you so much for tuning inthis evening.
It's my pleasure to have youand it's also my pleasure to
talk about this extraordinarilyimportant subject for women and
men, and they and the world.
(00:44):
Basically, eSense is a digitalhealth tool developed by leading
experts in sexual health,delivering clinically proven
therapies, cognitive behavioraltherapy and mindfulness-based
therapy through an interactive,self-guided online program.
It's designed to help womenaddress sexual concerns
privately, at their own pace andwithout the barriers of
(01:05):
traditional therapy.
Elaine Wandler is the CEO ofeSense Health, a digital health
company focused on deliveringaccessible, evidence-based care
for women's sexual health.
She has 25 years of leadershipexperience in the biotech
industry, medtech, pharma,digital health.
She's held senior roles atorganizations including QLT,
abbvie and AccelRx, to name afew.
(01:30):
Her career has centered oncommercialization strategy,
advancing innovative healthsolutions.
She's a passionate advocate forimpact-driven innovation, which
this certainly is, and she alsomentors health startups and
brings entrepreneurial insightfrom her time as the founder of
a successful multi-locationretail business.
I also wanted to invite somebodywho could speak to the science
(01:54):
the science that powers thisplatform and how user feedback
is helping to shape its future.
To that end, I invited mycolleague and friend, dr Lori
Brotto.
Dr Lori Brotto is a registeredpsychologist professor in the
Department of Obstetrics andGynecology at the University of
British Columbia.
She's the executive director ofthe Women's Health Research
Institute as well, and she'sinternationally recognized for
(02:16):
her groundbreaking research onwomen's sexual health and
well-being, and I, for one, havelearned so much from her.
She's pioneered the use ofmindfulness-based therapies to
address sexual concerns.
Her work bridges clinicalscience and compassionate care,
aiming to empower women throughevidence-based approaches, and
she's also the author of one ofmy favorite books Better Sex
(02:38):
Through Mindfulness and is apassionate advocate for closing
the gender gap in sexual healthresearch and treatment.
Good evening ladies.
How are you both?
Elayne Wandler (02:47):
So great, Maureen Thanks for having us.
Maureen McGrath (02:49):
Well, thank you so much for coming on the
podcast.
I really appreciate it.
Dr. Lori Brotto (02:54):
Yeah, it's a pleasure to be here.
Maureen McGrath (02:56):
It's so great, and you know, two brilliant
minds coming togethercollaborating with eSense, I
want to talk about thetechnology and also about the
science as well.
Elayne eSense is on a missionto deliver accessible,
evidence-based care for women'ssexual health.
Can you share the origin behindthe story, behind the company,
(03:19):
and what gap in care it aims tofill?
Elayne Wandler (03:22):
Absolutely so our founders, and we'll mention
too we have another co-founder,dr Kyle Stevenson from Xavier
University in Cincinnati.
So, as you said in theintroduction, Lori and Kyle
they're both clinicalpsychologists and, frankly,
world experts in sexual health.
And Lori has been pioneering,you know, developing
(03:43):
mindfulness-based therapy forfemale sexual dysfunction for
many years.
Kyle has been developingmindfulness-based therapy for
female sexual dysfunction formany years.
Kyle has been very focused oncognitive behavioral therapy and
trauma.
So both saw how effective theseapproaches were in clinical
practice, but then also saw howfew women were getting access.
And, of course, we know there'sa shortage of sex therapists,
which means long, long waitlists, and you know that's only
(04:04):
one of the barriers to womengetting treatment.
You know there's also thestigma, financial resources,
geography, et cetera.
So they decided to take thisvery effective therapy and
approach and package into adigital online tool with the
specific intention of bridgingthat access gap, so providing
effective, evidence-based toolsthat are truly grounded in
(04:27):
science.
Maureen McGrath (04:28):
Which is amazing, and digital health has
exploded in recent years, butwomen's sexual health has often
been left behind.
I don't know if it's just stillsuch a taboo subject, but how
does eSense harness thattechnology to overcome the
stigma and silence around thesevery important issues?
Dr. Lori Brotto (04:44):
Yeah, sexual health is still one of the most
stigmatized areas in medicine,and it's even more invisible for
women.
So, if you think about it, malesexual dysfunction affects
approximately 20% of men, andit's a multi-billion dollar
industry and you'll see adseverywhere, right?
Female sexual dysfunctionaffects approximately 40% of
(05:04):
women, which is twice as many,and it's rarely talked about.
So when you think about that,it's not really surprising.
Only 20% of women grapplingwith sexual concerns ever
received treatment.
So eSense really leverages thestrengths of what a digital
platform can offer, which is toprovide evidence-based care
that's available on demand andentirely self-guided.
(05:26):
So women don't have to worryabout awkward conversations or
waiting for referrals ortraveling to clinics at set
times.
They don't even need to bringit up with their doctor if
that's uncomfortable for them orgo somewhere to get a referral.
They can just sign up directly.
So I think, by allowing womento engage privately and at their
own pace, you know, I thinkthat's going to help reduce the
(05:46):
shame and discomfort that oftenstops people from seeking help
in the first place.
Maureen McGrath (05:51):
And it's not available yet, but it's, shall I
say, or dare I say it's, on theplateau of availability Very
close.
Yes, yes, so that's great, andso women can go to the website
and sign up now in preparationfor it.
Elayne Wandler (06:10):
They can.
We'll be starting a commercialpilot within the next couple of
months.
So yeah, if they want to goahead and sign up on the website
, we'll inform them when it'scloser to commercialization.
Maureen McGrath (06:18):
And what is the website actually where they
should go if somebody should betuning in right now and is
extremely keen to deal withtheir sexual health concerns?
Elayne Wandler (06:26):
So it's a HTTP colon slash, slash, and then
eSensehealth.
Maureen McGrath (06:33):
Excellent, thank you so much.
Now, dr Brotto, as a clinicalpsychologist and researcher in
sexual health, what drew you tocollaborate with eSense, and how
does it align with youracademic and clinical work?
Dr. Lori Brotto (06:50):
Yeah, thanks so much, Maureen.
I mean you know well, so wellalso as a sexual health expert
yourself, that you know a lot ofwomen are suffering.
They're suffering in silence orsuffering for many years, and
for a lot of those women theysimply never access
evidence-based care at all.
And because I had been doingresearch on mindfulness based
interventions really for thelast 22 years and showing,
demonstrating in the science,that actually this skill is very
(07:14):
, very effective, that theoutcomes are retained In fact,
women continue to improve, evenup to a year after they stop
practicing.
But there was still a gap inimplementation of taking these
evidence-based strategies thatwe know work well when we test
them in a research setting andactually exporting them into
real life.
(07:34):
And the same would apply forcognitive behavioral therapy.
And that's why my partnershipwith Kyle Stevenson has been so
wonderful with this, he, ofcourse, being an expert in CBT
for sexual dysfunction.
And so in the early days we hadthe idea you know, if we put the
information on a website, willthey come, will they engage,
will this be usable, will theyfind it satisfying?
(07:56):
And then, slowly, with someresearch funding, we showed
feasibility, usability.
Then we got funding from theCanadian Institutes of Health
Research to do a randomizedclinical trial with a control
group and indeed found that allof the effects were replicated
when we tested it in a muchlarger sample of women with low
desire.
And then eSense was born.
(08:17):
We gave it a name.
We worked hand in hand withpatient partners to do the
illustrations that are embeddedwithin eSense, to craft the
stories, to talk about theinteractivity and ensure that it
was all designed in a way, withthe user at the center.
So I feel really proud of thiswork because it was constructed
(08:37):
alongside, hand-in-hand withpatients, and I think it really
reflects what matters most whenit comes to women's sexual
health.
Maureen McGrath (08:44):
It's amazing and I love the puns.
I have to say will they comeand you've demonstrated that
they will?
know many women struggle totalk about sexual concerns with
their partners, with theirdoctors.
Why is that, and how doeseSense help create a safe,
science-informed space wherewomen feel heard and supported?
Dr. Lori Brotto (09:08):
Yeah, I mean this is the legacy of, shall we
say, Freud, although I think itpredated Freud.
For so long women's health ingeneral has been sort of
shrouded in secrecy and mystery.
And you know, for the longesttime we used to think that all
of women's ailments were due tohysteria or the wandering uterus
(09:29):
that floated around the bodyand gave symptoms of chronic
pain and anxiety and distress,etc.
And then, alongside that,there's been a tremendous lag in
research, in science actuallystudying women's health
conditions.
So this isn't specific to sexualhealth.
We see it across all domains ofwomen's health in general where
, you know, really it's onlybeen in the last 20 years that
(09:50):
women have routinely beenincluded in clinical trials.
Even so, we've got a ways to go.
But certainly sexual health hasthat sort of double, double
whammy of taboo being a women'shealth topic.
But also, you know,historically women's sexual
concerns were dichotomized intoeither nymphomania, which is a
terrible term that unfortunatelystill lingers today, which
(10:12):
reflects women with too highdesire, or again, thank you
Freud they were labeled asfrigid and there was absolutely
no nuance in between to captureall of the kind of various ways
that women might express andfeel their sexual health.
So we're changing that and Ithink again in the last 20 years
certainly since Viagra wasapproved for men, we've seen a
(10:35):
real interest in research infemale sexual health and,
alongside that, developingevidence-based treatment.
So I think the tide's slowlyturning and we're excited about
that.
Maureen McGrath (10:46):
Which is great , and you know those two words
that you use frigid andnymphomania.
They denote such shame and youknow, so many women have such
shame around sexual health ortheir sexuality or their desires
, and it's very difficult forthem to talk about it.
And I think, like menopause,perhaps a lot of physicians have
not received sexual healtheducation in medical school, and
(11:08):
so I think we do need to, youknow, provide the education so
that they could speak to thefemale sexual response cycle
with their patients and thatpatients won't think that
they're talking about a sex toy,which is what one of my
patients thought.
So, you know, we really need toget the information out there
and clarify it, and I thinkeSense is, you know, doing that
(11:31):
with aplomb.
Dr. Lori Brotto (12:51):
, even beyond improving how they feel and
their relationships and sex life, the program has the potential
to provide skills that they cantake and apply to other parts of
their life.
You know, and there's such aneed among so many populations.
And, lori, I don't know if youwant to, if you can mention the
comment from a cancer patientthat you told me about earlier
this week.
(13:13):
Yeah, one of the adaptationswe're doing, maureen, is for
cancer survivors, and so weworked with a patient advisory
group of gynecologic cancersurvivors and they said that
eSense and addressing theirsexual health is a way for them
to continue to feel alive, evenin the midst of cancer treatment
(13:36):
and even among those who maybeare at a very advanced stage of
their cancer treatment.
So recognizing and validatingtheir sexual health and giving
them tools to improve theirsexual health really is a
statement that this part of yourlife is such an important
aspect of who you are, even inthe face of a concurrent chronic
health condition.
Maureen McGrath (13:56):
Wow, that gives me chills as well, because
so often a woman that has acancer diagnosis, you can see
where she might be shamed ifshe's saying well, what about my
sex life?
Well, you have cancer, we'regoing to cure that.
What are you thinking about sexfor?
But, as you say, it's veryimportant and it is what keeps
women alive.
The other thing I wanted tomention, Elaine, is that you
(14:18):
mentioned about women don't havethe language.
That speaks to the lack ofeducation, sex education, for so
many women and you knowbarriers to this type of
education.
I find women in my clinicalpractice of all ages don't have
the language and I, you know, Isort of in a not really in a
joking way, but it just seems so, you know, unusual that I am
(14:42):
finishing their sentences forthem.
You know you hear that aboutcouples, you know we're so
connected.
We finish each other'ssentences.
Well, I'm finishing sentencesfor women in my clinical
practice because they don't knowhow to describe what's going on
.
They don't know how to say thisis the first time that they've
ever had sex.
They might be 45 years of ageand so they're so uncomfortable
talking about it.
(15:02):
And I do think that eSense hasthe capacity to address that as
well.
I want to get to the currentscience about the most common
sexual health issues that womenface, Dr Brotto.
And how can digital tools likeeSense help address them
effectively?
Dr. Lori Brotto (15:20):
Yeah, so there have been quite a number of
large population-based studiesin thousands of women, across
ages, across demographics,across ethnicities and across
the studies.
Again and again, low sexualdesire continues to rise to the
top.
And now, of course, we'rehaving a conversation about
(15:41):
menopause finally and we werejust talking about that when we
were off air, about how great itis that, you know, there's an
increase in kind of publicdiscourse about menopause and
we're also talking about lowdesire in the context of
menopause, and so it does stillcontinue to be the most
prevalent of the sexual concerns.
But not far behind, you know.
(16:01):
Pain with sexual activity, painwith vaginal insertion, loss of
pleasure, low desire, lack ofsatisfaction, difficulty getting
aroused, those are all stillpretty common.
Maureen McGrath (16:11):
And how about orgasms?
A lot of women don't know ifthey've ever experienced an
orgasm, and I mean, why is that?
Dr. Lori Brotto (16:19):
Yeah, yeah, great and really important that
we differentiate orgasms fromvaginal stimulation, from
orgasms from clitoralstimulation.
What we know is is that 80% ofwomen in the large surveys do
not reach orgasm or experienceorgasm through purely vaginal
insertion, that the vastmajority who do experience
(16:40):
orgasm is through clitoralstimulation.
So this suggests that there's areal need for us around
education.
And so the woman who says, oh,I've never been able to reach
orgasm, really important that weexplore with her.
Are you stimulating theclitoris?
Are you using a vibrator?
Are you using different tools?
Are you focusing your mind onthe pleasure?
Are you staying in the presentmoment?
And so we call that the personwho's maybe never been able to
(17:03):
reach orgasm because maybe theyhaven't familiarized themselves
with what feels good in theirbody.
We call that lifelonganorgasmia, and it's very
treatable, and it's largelytreatable through a combination
of psychoeducation how the bodyworks, how to ask for pleasure,
combined with mindfulness skillsteaching them to really stay
focused on the body.
(17:23):
And then, of course, there'sthe women who develop
difficulties with orgasm, whatwe call secondary anorgasmia.
That might be after a surgery,maybe after use of an
antidepressant or anothermedication, maybe after some
other significant life event orstressor, and in that situation
it's a bit more challenging,because sometimes the factor
(17:44):
that caused the onset of theanorgasmia has ended, but the
person is still havingdifficulties there, and so we
have slightly differentapproaches that we use,
depending on our understandingof what the underlying causes
are.
Maureen McGrath (17:57):
And I want to mention menopause.
A lot of women have nodifficulty experiencing orgasm
until they reach perimenopauseor menopause, or the time after
menopause as well.
Yeah, so this is why thiseducation is just so critically
important.
You know, many women haveexperienced sexual abuse, rape,
(18:18):
unwanted sexual advances.
It impacts their sexual health,their sex lives, their desire.
Is eSense an option for thosewomen?
Yeah, great question.
Great question there, maureen.
So in our randomized clinicaltrial we found that half of our
participants, in addition to thelow desire they endorsed a
(18:39):
history of sexual assault.
And so one of the things we wereinterested in looking at, of
course, was did those women whohad a history of sexual assault,
did they not improve to thesame degree as those without a
sexual assault history in termsof improvements in desire and
distress, and actually found nodifferences between those groups
?
So really reassuring that eSenseand I think it's because you
(19:03):
know, built within all of themodules we talk about the
multitude of contributors to lowdesire, including history of
sexual assault or PTSD ordepression or anxiety, and so
those women who have thathistory themselves they feel
heard, they feel validated asthey're working through eSense.
It's not kind of a boutiqueprogram only for a tiny niche
(19:26):
group of women.
And then the second thing Iwanted to point out that we
found was actually, in additionto improvements in desire and
stress and other facets ofsexual health, we also found
improvements in post-traumaticstress disorder symptoms after
doing eSense, and so we've got apaper in the works right now on
that.
But again, really reassuringthat for those women who have
(19:49):
kind of that history of both thehistory of trauma and PTSD as
well as low desire, that eSenseis probably a really good fit
for them.
Yeah, that is absolutely amazing.
That's incredible.
And again, the clinical trialsare still ongoing.
Is that correct?
Elayne Wandler (20:04):
Yeah, so the main clinical trial where we
looked at in a well-poweredlarge study against a control
group, that's been done and it'spublished in Behavior Research
and Therapy.
And then the additional papersthat we're working on right now
are some of the papers lookingat how does eSense work, so the
underlying mechanisms, are thereparticular subgroups of women
(20:24):
that do better in eSensecompared to other women?
So looking at predictors ofimprovement.
And then, as I mentionedbriefly, we have adaptations of
eSense to cancer survivors, totrans-identified women, to
neurodiverse women and to othersubpopulations that we're
continuing to do research within the years ahead.
Maureen McGrath (20:43):
And are you still recruiting participants?
Dr. Lori Brotto (20:46):
We sure are, yep.
So probably the best way tofind us is through the website
that Elaine mentioned, which iseSensehealth, and there's a
single email at the bottom thereand that can take you to some
of the current studies we'rerecruiting for.
So the large trial we'rerecruiting for right now is for
gynecologic cancer survivors, soany type of gynecologic cancer
endometrial, vaginal, cervical,etc.
(21:09):
And that person has concurrentsexual health concerns.
So that's the large trial we'rerecruiting for right now.
But we're also recruiting forwomen with low desire who want
to.
There's an arm of eSense wherewe're testing whether augmenting
it with an AI chatbot, so anopportunity to kind of get some
(21:29):
validation and kind of ongoingcheck-ins with a chatbot.
We're trying to see how wellthat works.
So we've got another studythat's evaluating that too.
Maureen McGrath (21:38):
Amazing, Dr.
Brotto.
You've come such a long way.
I think my first education fromyou was on the mindfulness
around a blueberry.
Dr. Lori Brotto (21:50):
Yes, it was.
Maureen McGrath (21:54):
Wow, you've come a long way.
Yeah, by the way, by the way,maureen, that exercise is in
eSense.
That's awesome.
Because that was so good, I'musing it 20 years later.
You know, something we hear alot about is women are
complicated.
Women's sexual health iscomplex.
(22:14):
It's multifactorial.
What are some of the biggestmyths or misconceptions you wish
more people understood aboutfemale sexuality?
Dr. Lori Brotto (22:22):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's one of them.
Because women's sexuality is socomplex, there's absolutely
nothing that we can do to helpwomen feel pleasure again, and
it's a complete myth.
I mean, we now have quite anumber of studies proving that
low sexual desire, or desire, islike any emotion it's something
that emerges in response to atrigger.
(22:42):
So if a person has low desire,we want to pay attention to well
what are the facets that arehappening, external to them,
internal to them, that are notpulling out their sexual desire.
So I think it's a reallyreassuring message that women's
sexual desire is very flexible,that absolutely women can
(23:07):
experience a rebound or a wholenew experience of desire at any
point in their life.
That's a really big one.
And then maybe another myth I'lltuck in, because it's really
relevant to eSense, is thatpsychological methods don't work
as well as medications do.
And although we haven'tdirectly compared eSense to a
medication, we've compared theeffect sizes.
So in our study we can actuallyget a magnitude of just how
powerful the improvements arecompared to some of the
(23:29):
published pharmaceutical trialsof drug treatments for low
desire, compared to some of thepublished pharmaceutical trials
of drug treatments for lowdesire, and both the CBT arm and
the mindfulness arm withineSense show effect sizes or a
magnitude of effect that is muchhigher and quite impressive
actually.
Maureen McGrath (23:43):
Oh, absolutely .
There's very little effect withsome of the medications,
unfortunately for women, buthopefully that with eSense we're
going to be able to change theoutcomes for many women who
present with sexual healthconcerns.
Affordability and access,elaine, are major barriers for
many women, and how does eSenseensure that its services will be
(24:05):
both inclusive and equitableand affordable, especially for
the underserved or ruralpopulations?
Affordable, especially for the?
Dr. Lori Brotto (24:12):
underserved or rural populations?
Yeah, great question, becauseeSense was built really with
accessibility in mind from dayone, so that was really the
intention.
So the entire program isavailable online, which removes
the geographic and otherlogistical barriers.
In terms of price, we're notfully commercial yet, so I can't
give you an exact price, butour goal is to make it
accessible as broadly as we can,so it's definitely going to be
(24:37):
priced significantly lower thantraditional therapy.
We're exploring future modelslike employee coverage or
partnerships with public clinicsto expand with, you know,
diverse users in mind.
There are fictional casestudies throughout the program
that represent women withdifferent issues and cultural
backgrounds and life experiences.
And then, as Laurie mentionedearlier, we're developing
(25:00):
adaptations for transgenderwomen, cancer survivors,
postpartum women, so reallytrying to not leave anybody out.
Maureen McGrath (25:09):
I am so excited for this platform to be
launched.
You have no idea, I think it'sgoing to benefit so many of in
their own time and haveevidence-based solutions,
(25:34):
provide them with information.
I think it's fantastic.
You know there is this culturalnarrative around women's sexual
health.
Dr Brotto, how do you seeeSense transforming not just
access to care but the culturalnarrative around women's sexual
health, particularly in how weapproach pleasure, which we
never talk about, pain and alsoemotional connection?
(25:57):
And I just want to add in therethat I hear so many women will
say I shut that door a long timeago.
I, you know it's over for me.
Sex is done, that's it, youknow, and you explore the
reasons and you know they're notnecessarily reasons that don't
have treatments, and so it's sosad because, as you say, it's
what keeps us alive.
But how can we alter thatcultural narrative?
Dr. Lori Brotto (26:20):
Yeah, I mean ideally, in the long term, we
would love to see, you know, agroup of women together and one
says to the other hey, have youheard of eSense?
I tried it and it's great.
And I mean that's kind of along-term ideal.
But I think, because it wasdelivered lockstep with patients
and we heard their experiencesand their voice and, as Elaine
(26:41):
pointed out earlier, one of thethings that many of them told us
was, yes, it improved my desireand distress, which was the
main issue, but it reallyimproved so many other facets of
my life and quality of life andhow I see myself and my
confidence, which then has aripple effect on so many other
domains of life.
And and so that's what I'm alsoreally excited about is that,
(27:03):
yes, of course we, if we canaddress the very high rates of
sexual dysfunction and lowdesire in women.
But you know, women representthe largest increasing group in
the workforce.
Women are living longer.
We spend 30 years in ourpostmenopausal state.
We contribute so much to GDPand society, and so anything
(27:25):
that we can do to help womenlive better, happier lives makes
me really, really happy, and Ithink eSense has the opportunity
to do that.
Maureen McGrath (27:35):
That is awesome, you know, yes, we,
we're bigger and we're livinglonger, and damn it, we deserve
a great sex life and a greatlife in terms of mood, self
esteem, body image.
You know all of relationships,connection, intimacy all of it
can benefit from.
You know, understanding women'ssexual health and women
(27:57):
understanding what may or maynot be happening with them.
Elaine, looking ahead, what'syour vision for the future of
digital sexual health care forwomen and how does eSense plan
to lead in that space?
Elayne Wandler (28:10):
Yeah, I mean our vision is really to normalize
sexual health as part of wholeperson care right and to provide
these high quality tools thatare universally available, so no
matter where a woman lives orwhat her background is, and just
there's that whole stigma piece.
I'll just give you an example.
I was speaking with them acompany that offers sort of
virtual assistance for variousaspects and just trying to get
(28:33):
information on it and when Imentioned what eSense Health the
company does and said that youknow we're addressing female
sexual dysfunction, she stoppedand she said oh, we can't help
you, like you can't be a clientof ours because we don't want
our employees to feeluncomfortable, so took me off
guard.
But perfect example of thestigma and sort of what we're up
(28:54):
against.
Maureen McGrath (28:56):
Right.
Elayne Wandler (28:56):
Yeah.
So to me, ultimately, eSenseisn't just a product, it's part
of a movement to sort of shiftthe conversation around women's
sexual health from silence tosupport right and and, as you
said, menopause is going in thatdirection.
It's finally in the spotlight,but we don't want sexual health
to be left in the shadows, soAbsolutely, and it's tremendous
(29:17):
work.
Maureen McGrath (29:17):
I cannot thank both of you enough.
I want to mention the websiteagain.
It's esensehealth.
com that will get you to thisbastion of knowledge and
understanding as to whethereSense is for you.
It talks about low sexualdesire and arousal, their
outcomes from their clinicaltrials, and you know if you'd
like to learn more, there's somuch information there and you
(29:39):
know, thanks to all of thecreators and collaborators of
eSense, I mean it'sextraordinarily forward thinking
and I really appreciate that,and I appreciate both of you
coming on the podcast to talkabout it.
Elayne Wandler (29:52):
Thank, you so much, Maureen.
Dr. Lori Brotto (29:54):
Yes, thank you.
It was fantastic for doing this.
Maureen McGrath (29:57):
You're both so welcome, and if you know
somebody who might benefit fromthis episode, somebody who has
secretly shared with you theirsexual health concerns, or even
a patient or a friend or adaughter or a mother, feel free
to share this podcast with themand tell them about eSense.
We need to share thisinformation with our friends,
our mothers, our daughters, oursisters, our cousins, everybody,
(30:21):
and I want to thank once againElaine Wandler, the CEO of
eSense Health, and also Dr LoriBrotto, registered psychologist
and professor in the Departmentof Obstetrics and Gynecology at
the University of BritishColumbia, and also the executive
director of the Women's HealthResearch Institute and a
collaborator on eSense, and Iwant to thank you for tuning in.
(30:44):
Thank you so much.
As you know, it's always mypleasure to talk to you and to
have you perhaps listen, sothanks so much.
I'm Maureen McGrath, registerednurse, nurse contents advisor,
sexual health educator and hostof this podcast.
Nurse Maureen's Health ShowPodcast.
Gentlemen, let's talk.
Sexual concerns, such as low desire,
arousal issues, lubrication,sexual pain, difficulty
experiencing orgasm, are validand common concerns, yet too
often dismissed or may gountreated.
My guests on tonight's episodeare committed to changing that
by working on a platform calledeSense that aims to offer
(00:23):
accessible, evidence-basedsupport for women's sexual
health and well-being.
Good evening.
I am Maureen McGrath,registered nurse, nurse
continence advisor, sexualhealth educator.
Thank you so much for tuning inthis evening.
It's my pleasure to have youand it's also my pleasure to
talk about this extraordinarilyimportant subject for women and
men, and they and the world.
(00:44):
Basically, eSense is a digitalhealth tool developed by leading
experts in sexual health,delivering clinically proven
therapies, cognitive behavioraltherapy and mindfulness-based
therapy through an interactive,self-guided online program.
It's designed to help womenaddress sexual concerns
privately, at their own pace andwithout the barriers of
(01:05):
traditional therapy.
Elaine Wandler is the CEO ofeSense Health, a digital health
company focused on deliveringaccessible, evidence-based care
for women's sexual health.
She has 25 years of leadershipexperience in the biotech
industry, medtech, pharma,digital health.
She's held senior roles atorganizations including QLT,
abbvie and AccelRx, to name afew.
(01:30):
Her career has centered oncommercialization strategy,
advancing innovative healthsolutions.
She's a passionate advocate forimpact-driven innovation, which
this certainly is, and she alsomentors health startups and
brings entrepreneurial insightfrom her time as the founder of
a successful multi-locationretail business.
I also wanted to invite somebodywho could speak to the science
(01:54):
the science that powers thisplatform and how user feedback
is helping to shape its future.
To that end, I invited mycolleague and friend, dr Lori
Brotto.
Dr Lori Brotto is a registeredpsychologist professor in the
Department of Obstetrics andGynecology at the University of
British Columbia.
She's the executive director ofthe Women's Health Research
Institute as well, and she'sinternationally recognized for
(02:16):
her groundbreaking research onwomen's sexual health and
well-being, and I, for one, havelearned so much from her.
She's pioneered the use ofmindfulness-based therapies to
address sexual concerns.
Her work bridges clinicalscience and compassionate care,
aiming to empower women throughevidence-based approaches, and
she's also the author of one ofmy favorite books Better Sex
(02:38):
Through Mindfulness and is apassionate advocate for closing
the gender gap in sexual healthresearch and treatment.
Good evening ladies.
How are you both?
Elayne Wandler (02:47):
So great, Maureen Thanks for having us.
Maureen McGrath (02:49):
Well, thank you so much for coming on the
podcast.
I really appreciate it.
Dr. Lori Brotto (02:54):
Yeah, it's a pleasure to be here.
Maureen McGrath (02:56):
It's so great, and you know, two brilliant
minds coming togethercollaborating with eSense, I
want to talk about thetechnology and also about the
science as well.
Elayne eSense is on a missionto deliver accessible,
evidence-based care for women'ssexual health.
Can you share the origin behindthe story, behind the company,
(03:19):
and what gap in care it aims tofill?
Elayne Wandler (03:22):
Absolutely so our founders, and we'll mention
too we have another co-founder,dr Kyle Stevenson from Xavier
University in Cincinnati.
So, as you said in theintroduction, Lori and Kyle
they're both clinicalpsychologists and, frankly,
world experts in sexual health.
And Lori has been pioneering,you know, developing
(03:43):
mindfulness-based therapy forfemale sexual dysfunction for
many years.
Kyle has been developingmindfulness-based therapy for
female sexual dysfunction formany years.
Kyle has been very focused oncognitive behavioral therapy and
trauma.
So both saw how effective theseapproaches were in clinical
practice, but then also saw howfew women were getting access.
And, of course, we know there'sa shortage of sex therapists,
which means long, long waitlists, and you know that's only
(04:04):
one of the barriers to womengetting treatment.
You know there's also thestigma, financial resources,
geography, et cetera.
So they decided to take thisvery effective therapy and
approach and package into adigital online tool with the
specific intention of bridgingthat access gap, so providing
effective, evidence-based toolsthat are truly grounded in
(04:27):
science.
Maureen McGrath (04:28):
Which is amazing, and digital health has
exploded in recent years, butwomen's sexual health has often
been left behind.
I don't know if it's just stillsuch a taboo subject, but how
does eSense harness thattechnology to overcome the
stigma and silence around thesevery important issues?
Dr. Lori Brotto (04:44):
Yeah, sexual health is still one of the most
stigmatized areas in medicine,and it's even more invisible for
women.
So, if you think about it, malesexual dysfunction affects
approximately 20% of men, andit's a multi-billion dollar
industry and you'll see adseverywhere, right?
Female sexual dysfunctionaffects approximately 40% of
(05:04):
women, which is twice as many,and it's rarely talked about.
So when you think about that,it's not really surprising.
Only 20% of women grapplingwith sexual concerns ever
received treatment.
So eSense really leverages thestrengths of what a digital
platform can offer, which is toprovide evidence-based care
that's available on demand andentirely self-guided.
(05:26):
So women don't have to worryabout awkward conversations or
waiting for referrals ortraveling to clinics at set
times.
They don't even need to bringit up with their doctor if
that's uncomfortable for them orgo somewhere to get a referral.
They can just sign up directly.
So I think, by allowing womento engage privately and at their
own pace, you know, I thinkthat's going to help reduce the
(05:46):
shame and discomfort that oftenstops people from seeking help
in the first place.
Maureen McGrath (05:51):
And it's not available yet, but it's, shall I
say, or dare I say it's, on theplateau of availability Very
close.
Yes, yes, so that's great, andso women can go to the website
and sign up now in preparationfor it.
Elayne Wandler (06:10):
They can.
We'll be starting a commercialpilot within the next couple of
months.
So yeah, if they want to goahead and sign up on the website
, we'll inform them when it'scloser to commercialization.
Maureen McGrath (06:18):
And what is the website actually where they
should go if somebody should betuning in right now and is
extremely keen to deal withtheir sexual health concerns?
Elayne Wandler (06:26):
So it's a HTTP colon slash, slash, and then
eSensehealth.
Maureen McGrath (06:33):
Excellent, thank you so much.
Now, dr Brotto, as a clinicalpsychologist and researcher in
sexual health, what drew you tocollaborate with eSense, and how
does it align with youracademic and clinical work?
Dr. Lori Brotto (06:50):
Yeah, thanks so much, Maureen.
I mean you know well, so wellalso as a sexual health expert
yourself, that you know a lot ofwomen are suffering.
They're suffering in silence orsuffering for many years, and
for a lot of those women theysimply never access
evidence-based care at all.
And because I had been doingresearch on mindfulness based
interventions really for thelast 22 years and showing,
demonstrating in the science,that actually this skill is very
(07:14):
, very effective, that theoutcomes are retained In fact,
women continue to improve, evenup to a year after they stop
practicing.
But there was still a gap inimplementation of taking these
evidence-based strategies thatwe know work well when we test
them in a research setting andactually exporting them into
real life.
(07:34):
And the same would apply forcognitive behavioral therapy.
And that's why my partnershipwith Kyle Stevenson has been so
wonderful with this, he, ofcourse, being an expert in CBT
for sexual dysfunction.
And so in the early days we hadthe idea you know, if we put the
information on a website, willthey come, will they engage,
will this be usable, will theyfind it satisfying?
(07:56):
And then, slowly, with someresearch funding, we showed
feasibility, usability.
Then we got funding from theCanadian Institutes of Health
Research to do a randomizedclinical trial with a control
group and indeed found that allof the effects were replicated
when we tested it in a muchlarger sample of women with low
desire.
And then eSense was born.
(08:17):
We gave it a name.
We worked hand in hand withpatient partners to do the
illustrations that are embeddedwithin eSense, to craft the
stories, to talk about theinteractivity and ensure that it
was all designed in a way, withthe user at the center.
So I feel really proud of thiswork because it was constructed
(08:37):
alongside, hand-in-hand withpatients, and I think it really
reflects what matters most whenit comes to women's sexual
health.
Maureen McGrath (08:44):
It's amazing and I love the puns.
I have to say will they comeand you've demonstrated that
they will?
know many women struggle totalk about sexual concerns with
their partners, with theirdoctors.
Why is that, and how doeseSense help create a safe,
science-informed space wherewomen feel heard and supported?
Dr. Lori Brotto (09:08):
Yeah, I mean this is the legacy of, shall we
say, Freud, although I think itpredated Freud.
For so long women's health ingeneral has been sort of
shrouded in secrecy and mystery.
And you know, for the longesttime we used to think that all
of women's ailments were due tohysteria or the wandering uterus
(09:29):
that floated around the bodyand gave symptoms of chronic
pain and anxiety and distress,etc.
And then, alongside that,there's been a tremendous lag in
research, in science actuallystudying women's health
conditions.
So this isn't specific to sexualhealth.
We see it across all domains ofwomen's health in general where
, you know, really it's onlybeen in the last 20 years that
(09:50):
women have routinely beenincluded in clinical trials.
Even so, we've got a ways to go.
But certainly sexual health hasthat sort of double, double
whammy of taboo being a women'shealth topic.
But also, you know,historically women's sexual
concerns were dichotomized intoeither nymphomania, which is a
terrible term that unfortunatelystill lingers today, which
(10:12):
reflects women with too highdesire, or again, thank you
Freud they were labeled asfrigid and there was absolutely
no nuance in between to captureall of the kind of various ways
that women might express andfeel their sexual health.
So we're changing that and Ithink again in the last 20 years
certainly since Viagra wasapproved for men, we've seen a
(10:35):
real interest in research infemale sexual health and,
alongside that, developingevidence-based treatment.
So I think the tide's slowlyturning and we're excited about
that.
Maureen McGrath (10:46):
Which is great , and you know those two words
that you use frigid andnymphomania.
They denote such shame and youknow, so many women have such
shame around sexual health ortheir sexuality or their desires
, and it's very difficult forthem to talk about it.
And I think, like menopause,perhaps a lot of physicians have
not received sexual healtheducation in medical school, and
(11:08):
so I think we do need to, youknow, provide the education so
that they could speak to thefemale sexual response cycle
with their patients and thatpatients won't think that
they're talking about a sex toy,which is what one of my
patients thought.
So, you know, we really need toget the information out there
and clarify it, and I thinkeSense is, you know, doing that
(11:31):
with aplomb.
Dr. Lori Brotto (12:51):
, even beyond improving how they feel and
their relationships and sex life, the program has the potential
to provide skills that they cantake and apply to other parts of
their life.
You know, and there's such aneed among so many populations.
And, lori, I don't know if youwant to, if you can mention the
comment from a cancer patientthat you told me about earlier
this week.
(13:13):
Yeah, one of the adaptationswe're doing, maureen, is for
cancer survivors, and so weworked with a patient advisory
group of gynecologic cancersurvivors and they said that
eSense and addressing theirsexual health is a way for them
to continue to feel alive, evenin the midst of cancer treatment
(13:36):
and even among those who maybeare at a very advanced stage of
their cancer treatment.
So recognizing and validatingtheir sexual health and giving
them tools to improve theirsexual health really is a
statement that this part of yourlife is such an important
aspect of who you are, even inthe face of a concurrent chronic
health condition.
Maureen McGrath (13:56):
Wow, that gives me chills as well, because
so often a woman that has acancer diagnosis, you can see
where she might be shamed ifshe's saying well, what about my
sex life?
Well, you have cancer, we'regoing to cure that.
What are you thinking about sexfor?
But, as you say, it's veryimportant and it is what keeps
women alive.
The other thing I wanted tomention, Elaine, is that you
(14:18):
mentioned about women don't havethe language.
That speaks to the lack ofeducation, sex education, for so
many women and you knowbarriers to this type of
education.
I find women in my clinicalpractice of all ages don't have
the language and I, you know, Isort of in a not really in a
joking way, but it just seems so, you know, unusual that I am
(14:42):
finishing their sentences forthem.
You know you hear that aboutcouples, you know we're so
connected.
We finish each other'ssentences.
Well, I'm finishing sentencesfor women in my clinical
practice because they don't knowhow to describe what's going on
.
They don't know how to say thisis the first time that they've
ever had sex.
They might be 45 years of ageand so they're so uncomfortable
talking about it.
(15:02):
And I do think that eSense hasthe capacity to address that as
well.
I want to get to the currentscience about the most common
sexual health issues that womenface, Dr Brotto.
And how can digital tools likeeSense help address them
effectively?
Dr. Lori Brotto (15:20):
Yeah, so there have been quite a number of
large population-based studiesin thousands of women, across
ages, across demographics,across ethnicities and across
the studies.
Again and again, low sexualdesire continues to rise to the
top.
And now, of course, we'rehaving a conversation about
(15:41):
menopause finally and we werejust talking about that when we
were off air, about how great itis that, you know, there's an
increase in kind of publicdiscourse about menopause and
we're also talking about lowdesire in the context of
menopause, and so it does stillcontinue to be the most
prevalent of the sexual concerns.
But not far behind, you know.
(16:01):
Pain with sexual activity, painwith vaginal insertion, loss of
pleasure, low desire, lack ofsatisfaction, difficulty getting
aroused, those are all stillpretty common.
Maureen McGrath (16:11):
And how about orgasms?
A lot of women don't know ifthey've ever experienced an
orgasm, and I mean, why is that?
Dr. Lori Brotto (16:19):
Yeah, yeah, great and really important that
we differentiate orgasms fromvaginal stimulation, from
orgasms from clitoralstimulation.
What we know is is that 80% ofwomen in the large surveys do
not reach orgasm or experienceorgasm through purely vaginal
insertion, that the vastmajority who do experience
(16:40):
orgasm is through clitoralstimulation.
So this suggests that there's areal need for us around
education.
And so the woman who says, oh,I've never been able to reach
orgasm, really important that weexplore with her.
Are you stimulating theclitoris?
Are you using a vibrator?
Are you using different tools?
Are you focusing your mind onthe pleasure?
Are you staying in the presentmoment?
And so we call that the personwho's maybe never been able to
(17:03):
reach orgasm because maybe theyhaven't familiarized themselves
with what feels good in theirbody.
We call that lifelonganorgasmia, and it's very
treatable, and it's largelytreatable through a combination
of psychoeducation how the bodyworks, how to ask for pleasure,
combined with mindfulness skillsteaching them to really stay
focused on the body.
(17:23):
And then, of course, there'sthe women who develop
difficulties with orgasm, whatwe call secondary anorgasmia.
That might be after a surgery,maybe after use of an
antidepressant or anothermedication, maybe after some
other significant life event orstressor, and in that situation
it's a bit more challenging,because sometimes the factor
(17:44):
that caused the onset of theanorgasmia has ended, but the
person is still havingdifficulties there, and so we
have slightly differentapproaches that we use,
depending on our understandingof what the underlying causes
are.
Maureen McGrath (17:57):
And I want to mention menopause.
A lot of women have nodifficulty experiencing orgasm
until they reach perimenopauseor menopause, or the time after
menopause as well.
Yeah, so this is why thiseducation is just so critically
important.
You know, many women haveexperienced sexual abuse, rape,
(18:18):
unwanted sexual advances.
It impacts their sexual health,their sex lives, their desire.
Is eSense an option for thosewomen?
Yeah, great question.
Great question there, maureen.
So in our randomized clinicaltrial we found that half of our
participants, in addition to thelow desire they endorsed a
(18:39):
history of sexual assault.
And so one of the things we wereinterested in looking at, of
course, was did those women whohad a history of sexual assault,
did they not improve to thesame degree as those without a
sexual assault history in termsof improvements in desire and
distress, and actually found nodifferences between those groups
?
So really reassuring that eSenseand I think it's because you
(19:03):
know, built within all of themodules we talk about the
multitude of contributors to lowdesire, including history of
sexual assault or PTSD ordepression or anxiety, and so
those women who have thathistory themselves they feel
heard, they feel validated asthey're working through eSense.
It's not kind of a boutiqueprogram only for a tiny niche
(19:26):
group of women.
And then the second thing Iwanted to point out that we
found was actually, in additionto improvements in desire and
stress and other facets ofsexual health, we also found
improvements in post-traumaticstress disorder symptoms after
doing eSense, and so we've got apaper in the works right now on
that.
But again, really reassuringthat for those women who have
(19:49):
kind of that history of both thehistory of trauma and PTSD as
well as low desire, that eSenseis probably a really good fit
for them.
Yeah, that is absolutely amazing.
That's incredible.
And again, the clinical trialsare still ongoing.
Is that correct?
Elayne Wandler (20:04):
Yeah, so the main clinical trial where we
looked at in a well-poweredlarge study against a control
group, that's been done and it'spublished in Behavior Research
and Therapy.
And then the additional papersthat we're working on right now
are some of the papers lookingat how does eSense work, so the
underlying mechanisms, are thereparticular subgroups of women
(20:24):
that do better in eSensecompared to other women?
So looking at predictors ofimprovement.
And then, as I mentionedbriefly, we have adaptations of
eSense to cancer survivors, totrans-identified women, to
neurodiverse women and to othersubpopulations that we're
continuing to do research within the years ahead.
Maureen McGrath (20:43):
And are you still recruiting participants?
Dr. Lori Brotto (20:46):
We sure are, yep.
So probably the best way tofind us is through the website
that Elaine mentioned, which iseSensehealth, and there's a
single email at the bottom thereand that can take you to some
of the current studies we'rerecruiting for.
So the large trial we'rerecruiting for right now is for
gynecologic cancer survivors, soany type of gynecologic cancer
endometrial, vaginal, cervical,etc.
(21:09):
And that person has concurrentsexual health concerns.
So that's the large trial we'rerecruiting for right now.
But we're also recruiting forwomen with low desire who want
to.
There's an arm of eSense wherewe're testing whether augmenting
it with an AI chatbot, so anopportunity to kind of get some
(21:29):
validation and kind of ongoingcheck-ins with a chatbot.
We're trying to see how wellthat works.
So we've got another studythat's evaluating that too.
Maureen McGrath (21:38):
Amazing, Dr.
Brotto.
You've come such a long way.
I think my first education fromyou was on the mindfulness
around a blueberry.
Dr. Lori Brotto (21:50):
Yes, it was.
Maureen McGrath (21:54):
Wow, you've come a long way.
Yeah, by the way, by the way,maureen, that exercise is in
eSense.
That's awesome.
Because that was so good, I'musing it 20 years later.
You know, something we hear alot about is women are
complicated.
Women's sexual health iscomplex.
(22:14):
It's multifactorial.
What are some of the biggestmyths or misconceptions you wish
more people understood aboutfemale sexuality?
Dr. Lori Brotto (22:22):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's one of them.
Because women's sexuality is socomplex, there's absolutely
nothing that we can do to helpwomen feel pleasure again, and
it's a complete myth.
I mean, we now have quite anumber of studies proving that
low sexual desire, or desire, islike any emotion it's something
that emerges in response to atrigger.
(22:42):
So if a person has low desire,we want to pay attention to well
what are the facets that arehappening, external to them,
internal to them, that are notpulling out their sexual desire.
So I think it's a reallyreassuring message that women's
sexual desire is very flexible,that absolutely women can
(23:07):
experience a rebound or a wholenew experience of desire at any
point in their life.
That's a really big one.
And then maybe another myth I'lltuck in, because it's really
relevant to eSense, is thatpsychological methods don't work
as well as medications do.
And although we haven'tdirectly compared eSense to a
medication, we've compared theeffect sizes.
So in our study we can actuallyget a magnitude of just how
powerful the improvements arecompared to some of the
(23:29):
published pharmaceutical trialsof drug treatments for low
desire, compared to some of thepublished pharmaceutical trials
of drug treatments for lowdesire, and both the CBT arm and
the mindfulness arm withineSense show effect sizes or a
magnitude of effect that is muchhigher and quite impressive
actually.
Maureen McGrath (23:43):
Oh, absolutely .
There's very little effect withsome of the medications,
unfortunately for women, buthopefully that with eSense we're
going to be able to change theoutcomes for many women who
present with sexual healthconcerns.
Affordability and access,elaine, are major barriers for
many women, and how does eSenseensure that its services will be
(24:05):
both inclusive and equitableand affordable, especially for
the underserved or ruralpopulations?
Affordable, especially for the?
Dr. Lori Brotto (24:12):
underserved or rural populations?
Yeah, great question, becauseeSense was built really with
accessibility in mind from dayone, so that was really the
intention.
So the entire program isavailable online, which removes
the geographic and otherlogistical barriers.
In terms of price, we're notfully commercial yet, so I can't
give you an exact price, butour goal is to make it
accessible as broadly as we can,so it's definitely going to be
(24:37):
priced significantly lower thantraditional therapy.
We're exploring future modelslike employee coverage or
partnerships with public clinicsto expand with, you know,
diverse users in mind.
There are fictional casestudies throughout the program
that represent women withdifferent issues and cultural
backgrounds and life experiences.
And then, as Laurie mentionedearlier, we're developing
(25:00):
adaptations for transgenderwomen, cancer survivors,
postpartum women, so reallytrying to not leave anybody out.
Maureen McGrath (25:09):
I am so excited for this platform to be
launched.
You have no idea, I think it'sgoing to benefit so many of in
their own time and haveevidence-based solutions,
(25:34):
provide them with information.
I think it's fantastic.
You know there is this culturalnarrative around women's sexual
health.
Dr Brotto, how do you seeeSense transforming not just
access to care but the culturalnarrative around women's sexual
health, particularly in how weapproach pleasure, which we
never talk about, pain and alsoemotional connection?
(25:57):
And I just want to add in therethat I hear so many women will
say I shut that door a long timeago.
I, you know it's over for me.
Sex is done, that's it, youknow, and you explore the
reasons and you know they're notnecessarily reasons that don't
have treatments, and so it's sosad because, as you say, it's
what keeps us alive.
But how can we alter thatcultural narrative?
Dr. Lori Brotto (26:20):
Yeah, I mean ideally, in the long term, we
would love to see, you know, agroup of women together and one
says to the other hey, have youheard of eSense?
I tried it and it's great.
And I mean that's kind of along-term ideal.
But I think, because it wasdelivered lockstep with patients
and we heard their experiencesand their voice and, as Elaine
(26:41):
pointed out earlier, one of thethings that many of them told us
was, yes, it improved my desireand distress, which was the
main issue, but it reallyimproved so many other facets of
my life and quality of life andhow I see myself and my
confidence, which then has aripple effect on so many other
domains of life.
And and so that's what I'm alsoreally excited about is that,
(27:03):
yes, of course we, if we canaddress the very high rates of
sexual dysfunction and lowdesire in women.
But you know, women representthe largest increasing group in
the workforce.
Women are living longer.
We spend 30 years in ourpostmenopausal state.
We contribute so much to GDPand society, and so anything
(27:25):
that we can do to help womenlive better, happier lives makes
me really, really happy, and Ithink eSense has the opportunity
to do that.
Maureen McGrath (27:35):
That is awesome, you know, yes, we,
we're bigger and we're livinglonger, and damn it, we deserve
a great sex life and a greatlife in terms of mood, self
esteem, body image.
You know all of relationships,connection, intimacy all of it
can benefit from.
You know, understanding women'ssexual health and women
(27:57):
understanding what may or maynot be happening with them.
Elaine, looking ahead, what'syour vision for the future of
digital sexual health care forwomen and how does eSense plan
to lead in that space?
Elayne Wandler (28:10):
Yeah, I mean our vision is really to normalize
sexual health as part of wholeperson care right and to provide
these high quality tools thatare universally available, so no
matter where a woman lives orwhat her background is, and just
there's that whole stigma piece.
I'll just give you an example.
I was speaking with them acompany that offers sort of
virtual assistance for variousaspects and just trying to get
(28:33):
information on it and when Imentioned what eSense Health the
company does and said that youknow we're addressing female
sexual dysfunction, she stoppedand she said oh, we can't help
you, like you can't be a clientof ours because we don't want
our employees to feeluncomfortable, so took me off
guard.
But perfect example of thestigma and sort of what we're up
(28:54):
against.
Maureen McGrath (28:56):
Right.
Elayne Wandler (28:56):
Yeah.
So to me, ultimately, eSenseisn't just a product, it's part
of a movement to sort of shiftthe conversation around women's
sexual health from silence tosupport right and and, as you
said, menopause is going in thatdirection.
It's finally in the spotlight,but we don't want sexual health
to be left in the shadows, soAbsolutely, and it's tremendous
(29:17):
work.
Maureen McGrath (29:17):
I cannot thank both of you enough.
I want to mention the websiteagain.
It's esensehealth.
com that will get you to thisbastion of knowledge and
understanding as to whethereSense is for you.
It talks about low sexualdesire and arousal, their
outcomes from their clinicaltrials, and you know if you'd
like to learn more, there's somuch information there and you
(29:39):
know, thanks to all of thecreators and collaborators of
eSense, I mean it'sextraordinarily forward thinking
and I really appreciate that,and I appreciate both of you
coming on the podcast to talkabout it.
Elayne Wandler (29:52):
Thank, you so much, Maureen.
Dr. Lori Brotto (29:54):
Yes, thank you.
It was fantastic for doing this.
Maureen McGrath (29:57):
You're both so welcome, and if you know
somebody who might benefit fromthis episode, somebody who has
secretly shared with you theirsexual health concerns, or even
a patient or a friend or adaughter or a mother, feel free
to share this podcast with themand tell them about eSense.
We need to share thisinformation with our friends,
our mothers, our daughters, oursisters, our cousins, everybody,
(30:21):
and I want to thank once againElaine Wandler, the CEO of
eSense Health, and also Dr LoriBrotto, registered psychologist
and professor in the Departmentof Obstetrics and Gynecology at
the University of BritishColumbia, and also the executive
director of the Women's HealthResearch Institute and a
collaborator on eSense, and Iwant to thank you for tuning in.
(30:44):
Thank you so much.
As you know, it's always mypleasure to talk to you and to
have you perhaps listen, sothanks so much.
I'm Maureen McGrath, registerednurse, nurse contents advisor,
sexual health educator and hostof this podcast.
Nurse Maureen's Health ShowPodcast.
Gentlemen, let's talk.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.