April 9, 2025 • 64 mins
Steve Fineberg, a cornerstone of Northwest Arkansas commercial real estate, takes us through his remarkable journey from financial ruin in Oklahoma City to rebuilding his career in what was then an undeveloped region. When he arrived in 1996, the interstate wasn't even open, and nothing we see today existed. His candid storytelling reveals how resilience, timing, and relationship-building transformed both his career and the region itself.
The conversation delves into profound business wisdom that transcends real estate. "Success is dependent upon when, where, and who you are—the convergence of those three things," Fineberg explains. This framework helps us understand why some investors thrive while others struggle in identical markets. His experience weathering devastating market cycles offers a sobering reminder that "you're drinking wine one day and stomping grapes the next"—a reality check for investors accustomed only to Northwest Arkansas' remarkable growth.
We explore current market conditions through the latest Skyline Report, revealing extraordinarily low vacancy rates across all commercial sectors. Multifamily vacancies remain at just 3.3% market-wide, with Springdale at an astonishing 1.9%, while office vacancy decreased to 6.3%—figures that defy national trends. Yet Fineberg cautions about infrastructure limitations potentially constraining future growth, noting, "We're almost victims of our own success."
Perhaps most valuable is Fineberg's perspective on what makes a truly successful transaction: understanding the deeper motivations behind each client's decisions rather than simply pushing deals. As he puts it, "There's always tentacles behind why they're doing what they're doing." This insight, coupled with his infectious enthusiasm for the profession after decades in the business, makes this episode essential listening for anyone interested in commercial real estate, business development, or Northwest Arkansas' remarkable growth story.
Ready to deepen your understanding of commercial real estate in Northwest Arkansas? Connect with Steve directly at 479-409-4756 or steve@arkrealestate.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Northwest Arkansas Investing Podcast, your
go-to source for real estateinvesting in Northwest Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
With your seasoned investor just starting out.
We bring you expert insights,market trends and practical
strategies to help you buildwealth through real estate.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
From buying and selling to property management
and long-term investmentplanning.
We cover it all so you can makesmart, informed decisions in
this fast-growing market.
Let's dive in.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Welcome to Northwest Arkansas Investing Podcast.
We have Steve Feinberg with us.
Owner, ceo, president whateveryou want to call him of Feinberg
Associates.
Thank you, steve for coming on.
We really appreciate your time.
I'm looking forward to a goodpodcast.
You've been great spirit so far.
We love people who are easy totalk to and you already seem
like one of those guys.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Well, thank you.
Thank you for inviting me.
I was surprised when Brianasked me and I'm honored to be
here.
Really, I feel privileged to behere.
Yeah, Thank you very much youhave years.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Thank you very much.
You have years.
I mean you just have.
You're one of the like to meyou know, brandon and I have
grown up in this area and to meyou're one of the staple names
in this area of.
When I think about real estate,especially commercial real
estate, I think of littleFeinberg comes to my mind, and
so I think that's maybe just atip of my cap to you and all
(01:22):
you've done over the years.
I mean it's been really cool tosee your brand grow and the
things you've been doing in thisarea.
So um really well.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Thank you for saying that.
Yeah, I guess all that doorknocking, phone calls, tires
that were in treasured on thecar automobiles I was paid off
yeah, it paid off somewhat.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
It paid off all that, yeah, all the stuff that nobody
else sees.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Sore knuckles, all of it.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Do people still doorknock for Rosicca?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
That's how it started .
Yeah, it is.
When I came here in 1996, theinterstate wasn't open.
Nothing you see around, Nothing.
You can drew like a 360-degreecircle and there's not a
building, not a in Greek, not anedifice that's present.
Then that's there.
Now it's totally another planet.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Did you come straight to Rogers or did you do where
did you land when you first cameto NWA in 96?
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Well, I don't want to dote on that, but I'll try to
answer your question.
I came from Dallas and I camefrom Dallas, okay, and I came
here.
Truth is, I came here brokebecause I had had a 10-year
successful experience inOklahoma City acquiring
apartment buildings with apartner and partners and that
(02:41):
was prior to anybody in thisroom being alive other than
Katie and we had a realsuccessful term until interest
rates became at 20%.
So I left Oklahoma City, wentto Dallas and struggled.
Dallas was right behindOklahoma, it was an energy state
and it was right behind thefall.
(03:02):
So I just whatever capital I hadremaining after losing all
those buildings, one at a time,trying to give them back to
lenders.
I spent everything I could tohold on.
In retrospect I wish I had donethat a little bit differently,
but so I came here.
I needed to start over, tostart a new real estate career,
(03:24):
and I'm a U of A graduate.
I grew up in Fort Smith so Ihad some familiarity
geographically, but I reallyknew nobody any longer.
So that's the seed for me beinghere.
That's all the door knockingand the phone calling and all
that.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Well, a line I'm hearing so far with just talking
to you is that it wasn'tnecessarily that you had this
huge master plan laid out andyou're like here's the steps for
my life, but you, just you justgot after it and started
throwing punches and seeing whatstuck and and fight.
Is that kind of?
Would you agree?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Yeah, I mean, everybody has a personal story
and mine started out fairlyaustere and then I had more
success in Oklahoma than I everthought I would have as a young
guy and then vacancies fell to20%, 30% because there was a
(04:26):
mass exodus of people leavingthe area due to the energy
sector.
So all that success justdiminished so fast, like a fast
elevator falling.
You could not.
It was just mass, massbankruptcies nationally at that
time.
Just mass, mass bankruptciesnationally at that time.
And so I just all I knew was towork, I mean just market and
(04:52):
work and struggle, and that'swhat brought me here.
I didn't have a master plan, Ijust knew I needed a fresh
canvas from Dallas and that'swhat brought me here.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And then, just one day at a time, one brick at a
time, Well, it sounds like youhave quite the appetite for risk
, because I think if a lot ofpeople would have gone through
exactly what you went through,probably they would have not
thrown the punch again.
I mean, I can't imagine goingthrough that and being like,
let's, let's go do it again, oryou know I was burning with, uh,
(05:30):
determination.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Yeah, um, I so I think that was the impetus
behind it all.
I I had not really worked foranybody.
Yeah, is that you or me?
So, pardon me.
So, uh, I just you know, whenyou work for someone else, there
there is a ceiling, and I'vealways liked to work where there
(05:55):
is no ceiling.
Yeah, that, whatever you do,it's dependent upon when, where
and who you are.
It's not just who you are, it'sdependent upon when, where and
who you are.
It's not just who you are, it'swhen you're there, where you
are, where the when is, and you,the convergence of those three
things.
So I just thought, you know, Iwant to do and build and I just
(06:20):
that's.
I don't know, I think there's aDNA there, maybe Some people
just have it.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Well, I mean, I don't know if I think there's a DNA
there, maybe Some people justhave it.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Well, I mean, I don't know if it's a good thing to
have.
I mean, honestly, you ride alot of roller coasters.
You're up, you're down, you'reup, you're down, you're
successful, you're notsuccessful.
You're drinking the wine andthen the next day you're
stomping the grapes.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
So I've done all of that and uh, it's it's been
quite a journey.
Yeah, here uh, northwestarkansas has treated me very,
very well.
I'll just tell you that, yeah,I came here didn't know anybody,
and and everybody uh was veryopen to discussion and talking
and, um, one thing led toanother.
I just, you know what, that'show, that's how I did it, yeah.
(07:10):
Yeah, I mean it's no secret,it's just, don't tell anybody,
but you just work hard and get alittle, a little luck along the
way.
Yeah, good, luck yeah good luck.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
So so what?
Uh, I'd love to hear a littlebit more about your time in
Oklahoma and you don't have todive too deep.
But what?
Originally it sounds like as ayoung age or at a young age you
started buying some apartmentcomplexes with some partners and
things like that.
What first struck that love forreal estate or that interest in
real estate, I guess.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Well, I was contacted by somebody to manage some
apartment buildings and I was inSan Antonio, texas, at that
time.
I was contacted by somebody tomanage some apartment buildings
and I was in San Antonio, texas,at that time.
I was about 24, 23, 24 yearsold, I had been in the military
in the Vietnam era and so I wentto work in Oklahoma City as a
(08:00):
property manager managing acouple thousand apartment units
and, honestly, the people whoreported to me knew more about
the business than I did.
That's the truth.
But I learned a lot.
I learned how to budget, columnby column, month by month,
expense code by expense code,annually, annual budgets, and in
those days we did them withspreadsheets.
(08:22):
Yeah, and it was a real journey.
I mean you would, and, uh, theleader at that time I worked for
um, I learned a lot from himand I did that for, I think,
three years left.
I said you know what, I can dothis myself.
So, uh, I set up a table in, uh, my bedroom that time, my wife
(08:43):
at that time in our bedroom atthat time, and a calculator and
I said I'm going to go out andfind management, apartment
management.
So I would go to the OklahomaCity Courthouse, county
Courthouse and look up ownershipof real estate in Oklahoma City
.
And it was small, over thecountry, it was Los Angeles,
(09:06):
canada, the future 51st state,I'm just kidding but all over
the country and I would call andmake cold calls.
So I got used to making coldcalls and I had contracts signed
.
It's just fine, tell it fine,and so then the interest rates
(09:28):
set in.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
And people.
I'm calling the ownershipbecause I'm managing their
building fee management.
Everybody had a separateaccount.
We didn't co-mingle any moneyand I would say we need $10,000,
$5,000, $20,000, whatever itwas for your account to make
payrolls and mortgage paymentsand keep the pool clean.
And I got really tired ofmaking cash calls and they got
(09:51):
tired of paying them and I couldsee their books because I know
how poorly they were doing.
So I would suggest you know if Icould get you out, if I could
put a deal together and take anote.
Would you be interested in that?
Just to get out of the fire?
And the answer was often yes,yeah, please.
(10:12):
So I went to an attorney, had aprospectus drawn up with all
the proper disclosures at theSEC at that time.
It still is that way and Iwould cold call investors
one-on-one.
You're a doctor, you're an oilman, you're whatever you are.
And I've got units in thisbuilding, uh, 50 000 unit 20,
(10:35):
whatever it was, and I'm raisinga million dollars or half a
million dollars or whatever itwas.
Yeah, and they sign with allthe disclosures of all the
things that could go awry.
And there's always things thatcan go, you know, yeah uh excuse
me.
So I did that and we assembledabout 20 partnerships.
(10:56):
Uh, in aggregate there wasroughly 100 partners.
Some of them were investors inseveral, several buildings.
Right, some may be just single,and I'm proud to say I never
had an investor call me backangry that we were losing them.
And I think the reason thathappened is because every time I
(11:17):
took a breath, I wrote a letter.
I wrote a letter of what I'mdoing, I'm raising rents, I'm
lowering rents, I'm doing this,I'm doing that, and raising
rents, I'm lowering rents, I'mdoing this, I'm doing that and
do I have the support?
And so everybody was keptabreast.
Yeah, and I never had aninternal revenue problem with
all the partners becauseeverybody knew.
You know, there was no claimwhere you would have, could have
(11:38):
, should have done this or that.
Yeah, would have, could have,should have done this or that.
Yeah, and there was, at thattime, there was what was called
phantom income, and some of youmay know what that is, that's if
you're a general partner, and Iwas the general partner, and in
(12:00):
those days, the federalgovernment had installed what
was called accelerateddepreciation, giving investors
the right, the opportunity, totake accelerated depreciation,
not a 25 or 30 year write off,but maybe a five year write off
and you take that building rightoff in five years.
Well, all of that shelteredincome from the investors OK, so
(12:20):
you add that shelter.
The result of that shelter plusthe cash flow, those returns
were pretty good.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
And that worked out well for about five, six years.
And then when you say you haveto ask for cash, it goes away
real quickly.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, I tell you.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Yeah, so I learned how to manage properties, the
physicality, managing theresident managers.
I did sales training with them,how to lease an apartment, how
to give a tour, how to get thelease signed, yada, yada yada.
(12:59):
We have role playing with mymanagers.
And then I got big enough whereI hired a certified property
manager.
So they reported to me and theywould do that, and and then
you're managing, as Brian does,the fiscal, the monetary
management of the each investorinvestment.
So all that went, you know,down the drain with the loss of
(13:22):
the buildings.
Yeah, and then I moved toDallas and I thought, thought,
well, I'll do there what I didin Oklahoma.
But that didn't work outbecause Dallas was right behind
Oklahoma in the dissension ofthe fall.
So all I knew was apartments.
I didn't know retail, office,industrial, I just knew—I didn't
(13:43):
know medical, I just knewapartments.
So I thought didn't knowmedical, I just knew apartments.
So I thought I need to learnhow to play more instruments in
the orchestra, more instrumentsin the band.
Yeah, so I started hanging outwith some retail guys down there
and they taught me how to do acommercial lease.
So you know, it's not that,it's not rocket science, right?
So, uh, that's I.
(14:04):
I had to learn how to do to addto my skill set, yeah and uh.
So when I moved here, theapartments were so small you
couldn't make any money managingthem.
You know, uh, you need thiscause consolidation, because if
you run here for 10 units, theone over there for 30 units,
(14:25):
you're not, you're just spinningyour wheels.
So I said I'm not doing anymore management.
And of course, now, then thetechnology has changed.
It was all done by then withspreadsheets.
Now it's all input with Excel,charts, et cetera, software.
But the fundamentals wereexactly the same.
You know, it's income andexpenses, yeah, and that's what
(14:50):
it boils down to.
So I've never done managementhere.
I've thought about attemptingto do that now that their
buildings are larger, butthey're already managed.
You're not allowed to call onanother listing, so I can't.
It's hard to break into.
I know how I've just beensticking to.
(15:11):
What I've done here isbrokering Retail, warehouse,
office, medical.
What else Did I name them all?
Retail, office, medical,industrial we do it all In a
market this size.
When I came here, what else DidI name them?
all Retail office, industrial,industrial, yeah, yeah.
So we do it all.
And in a market this size, whenI came here, if you did not be
(15:33):
pretty adept at all of them, youwould not make a living because
each sector was so small, yeah,yeah.
And if you're in a larger citylike Dallas, you would just
focus on a sector Maybe it'smedical, maybe it's fast food,
maybe it's retail or whatever itis.
But in a market this sizealthough it's getting to be a
size now you could almostspecialize, but in those days
(15:57):
you had to do everything and bepretty good at it.
Now there are issues that wedon't have, that you would have
in a larger city, like airrights, things that you know we
don't have to confront here,right, so I'm not skilled at
that because I'm in a marketthat we're not doing that, but
if I went to Chicago I'd have tolearn how to do that.
(16:18):
Oh, yeah.
You know, you become adaptable.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Do you feel?
How did you, when you movedhere in 96 to now, would you
have anticipated what happenedto Northwest Arkansas in the
last since 96 to 2025?
Speaker 4 (16:33):
No way.
No way I mean anybody that saysthat they're clairvoyant, they
got skill, they are.
Crystal ball somewhere.
Oh my gosh, they are brilliant.
I want to drink whateverthey're having.
No, I had no idea.
And part of what brought mehere my mother had developed
cancer in Fort Smith and I keptcoming back up from Dallas more
(16:55):
frequently to see her.
And as I would come up here tosee her, I would drive up here,
get her out of the house in FortSmith.
I see this area and I'mthinking, god, this is going to
take off.
But I had not as scintilla ofan idea what was going to happen
here.
How could I have had?
I mean, yeah, and you knowagain, your success is so
(17:18):
dependent on where you are whenyou're there and what your work
ethic is.
And then spice with a littlegood luck.
Yeah, all of that.
Yeah, you hinted at thatearlier.
You can't claim it's all aboutyou, because it's not all about
you.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, I mean, we're quite fortunate and blessed to
be and I tell my wife all thetime to be in this area of the
country where it's growing soquick.
It feels like you could almostbuy a Cracker Jack box and it's
going to be worth $50,000 morethe next year at this point and
I think it's almost a tell me ifI'm wrong almost like a
catch-22 where, like guys likeBrandon and I, we don't, we
(17:59):
don't.
They're really risk tolerantbecause we don't know what bad
really feels like.
When 2008 happened, we weren't,we didn't even know real estate
, the word real estate, yeah, sowe're just like bye, bye, bye,
bye, bye.
We don't, we don't have theinstitutional memory to know bad
To your point.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
I had no idea and I was almost telling you things
were going bad.
Nobody did.
All I had was your experienceof success.
Yeah, that city, the thing wasgoing to go bad.
Nobody did.
All I had was your experienceof success.
That's all I knew.
If I didn't put a deal together, I'm losing.
And I kept putting these dealstogether to feed the bear
Because if I don't, I'm notgetting fees.
I'm not doing it if I'm notputting it and I had no index
(18:43):
for failure.
And when I remember failure itdoesn't mean it's ascribed to
you Failure in an era.
I didn't know what it was andwhen it hit it knocked the
breath out of me.
Really, I didn't know what thatwas and I mean it was a hit in
the jaw and the stomach andgroin and everything else.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
I mean I was a hit in the jaw and the stomach and
groin and anything else.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
I mean, I was reeling .
I had all that responsibilitywith 100 partners and I was what
at that time?
About 27 or 28, was the timeinvolved?
Yeah, so you have no index Nowand I don't want to overstate
the case.
But people say what's your bestdeal?
(19:27):
What's your best deal?
Well, define the best deal towhom.
What are you looking for?
Is it appreciation?
Is it cash flow?
Is it long-term growth?
Is it immediate return?
What is it?
You've got to define what agood deal is and what their
(19:49):
needs are.
But now I used to tell people Iwouldn't say that right now, but
I would say this area.
You could almost say that now,but it wouldn't be technically
correct.
You want to do it as correct asyou can.
You could say early on, throw adart at a map and you're going
to pick an area that's going togrow.
(20:10):
It may be not as fast as theone down the road, but you're
not going to lose, right, youknow it's been that kind of an
area and over long term it'sprobably not far from the truth.
Now, yeah, unless it's in aswamp, you know.
Yeah, or it's got, it's a wastedump or something yeah, it's
(20:32):
going, or something yeah, it'sgoing to grow.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, that's kind of been we've talked about it
before is you know?
Just the data shows me that wecan be a little risky.
We can do this and do that.
You can toss it to the side ifyou want to.
We can be a little riskybecause the area data shows that
, like we can buy this and dothis because we're going to
double in population on the next.
(20:55):
However, and if we're going todouble in population the next 15
, 20 years and we're going to bearound it, there's a lot of
room to mess up, to hit yourface and still keep walking or
jogging or something.
And so that's why brandon brianand I we've talked about all
the time is like man, I, man.
I think it does boil down towhat you know.
You don't just go out and buy amillion-dollar home and try to
(21:16):
long-term rent it out.
I mean, you don't do stupidstuff like that but you find the
best deal for the specificperson and then you keep
trudging forward and you know, Ithink having an institutional
memory from men like yourselfand knowing the history of what
could happen, I think is smartto have in the back of our brain
.
But I don't know this area.
I feel very blessed to be here.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
This is a place Somebody told me recently a
client he was thinking aboutmoving to Florida and he's a
very successful.
He said you know this place isa hard place to leave.
I said you know it is.
It really is, with all theculture here now going on and
it's just a fun place.
And talk about risk tolerance.
(22:06):
Never say never about anything.
I mean never say that youcannot lose.
Yeah, never say that you'vereached the top, never say
you've reached the bottom unlessyou're in a hospital.
I mean uh, uh, take this in theright way the, the human being,
(22:30):
the range of good and bad.
Okay, in my mind would be fromHitler to Jesus.
Okay, that's the range of thehuman being, Right, and markets
are the same way.
They can go below flat, theycan go below zero, under, okay,
and they can go to the altitude.
(22:50):
Yeah, that's the range and youwant to be on the positive side,
but some things are happeningand it happened way beyond your
foresight, your control.
It could be something inUkraine that affects us.
In fact, we got so many thingsaffecting this market right now.
Yeah, I mean my gosh.
(23:11):
The things that can influencelease rates, construction.
How about infrastructure rightnow?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
It's infinite.
That's a good point.
And risk tolerance is sodependent on the person.
It's dependent on the age is abig factor.
Experience is a big factor.
At a young age you can outworksome mistakes, I think.
Think it's part of the mindset.
But also behind, like, whatmakes a good deal and what makes
a bad, like it's totallyrelevant to what your, what your
(23:40):
goals are.
What do you need?
What do you need?
Yeah, do you need short-termgains?
You need long?
What?
What your risk?
But that risk appetite alsogoes into what's a good deal.
A this deal we can flip in acouple years, but it but it.
Also.
We have high risk because we'reputting a lot of money into it.
We're depending on the marketto appreciate.
So that risk tolerance alsogoes into what a good return is.
(24:03):
Maybe someone is okay having avery good basis making an
average return, but their riskis very low.
So I think those all go intothe equation.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Yeah, it really does.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
You mentioned age.
Believe me, age has a lot to dowith your risk tolerance.
I'm not as brazen and asendearing as I was because I
know, if it turns out sour,whether it's my fault or
convergence of events outside ofmy control.
(24:37):
I don't have the time to work,as Brian said, to work it out.
You know, a friend of mine says, Steve, your runway's getting
short.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
So I don't have the runway to work out of it anymore
.
Well, you might not have thesubconscious pressure to take
the risk.
You know us being young, we'relike hey time to take risks.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
We feel like we're in our If you don't do it now,
when you've got the three of youat your age, I'm telling you
what, if I would give everythingaway, I would Not my family.
Let me say that.
Yeah, they're safe, but not that, but I would give everything
away I have, whatever it is away to go back 30-40 years and
get that back and do it again.
(25:18):
I really would.
Would I do some thingsdifferently?
I'd probably take more risk.
I would like to have what Iknow now.
If I went back, I wouldn't knownow what I didn't know then.
I think there used to be a songabout something like that If I
went back, I wouldn't know nowwhat I didn't know then.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Right, I think there used to be a song about
something like that.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
That's got to be a country song.
Yeah, it's a country song.
Yeah, I wish I didn't know nowwhat I knew then.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Something like the George Strait.
Steve, just as we talk aboutthe success of Northwest
Arkansas, what do you think froma brokerage standpoint and just
from an investor standpoint,what do you think you've learned
over the years when it comes tothe, of course, there's cycles
in real estate.
What do you think the biggestthings that you've learned over
those years?
We talk about mitigating riskand taking risk and all those
(26:05):
kind of things.
What do you think the biggestthing that you've learned just
being around real estatebrokering and all that kind of
stuff?
Speaker 4 (26:14):
That's a real good question.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I could expand on it.
That's a whole podcast rightthere.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Well, when you're looking at making projections,
you're looking in the rearviewmirror of what the past was, and
the past is not really a goodreflection of what tomorrow will
be, because so many new thingshappen.
With technology today, you canpick up the paper on any given
day and the world can be upsidedown with tariffs or weather or
(26:47):
inflation or whatever.
I think that I've learned thatyou really need to listen to
either side of the table inwhich you're talking to a buyer,
a seller, a tenant, a leaser.
(27:09):
You really need to listen andno deal is ever without
consequences to both sides ofthe table and they have
diametric, uh visions and youyou need to.
Really, in my mind, it's notabout, it's not just about the
deal.
It's about what's behind thedeal that you don't see.
(27:30):
Yeah, and if you ask the rightquestions and listen, you can
get some insight into what'sdriving that buyer, whether it's
corporate or family or local.
You know a proprietor?
Yeah, the same thing on thebuying side.
(27:50):
I mean, there's somethingdriving that more than the deal.
It's not just the deal.
It never is.
There's always tentacles behindwhy they're doing what they're
doing, and I think, as a, I'm aprofessional broker, okay.
So I need to work in theenvironment in which I'm in, the
geography and the economicclimate in which I'm in.
So I geography and the economicclimate in which I'm in.
(28:12):
So I need to listen to thosetwo players, what they're trying
to achieve at that point intime in this environment, and
try to articulate, try to createsomething that will be a fit.
So you just don't sell, Justselling the deal.
(28:34):
I got to sell this building.
You need to find the rightparty for it, the right want,
the right, need the right.
If it's somebody's investmentstrategy or if it's somebody's
occupancy needs, Okay.
If it's a sale on the sellingside, what are they going to do
(28:56):
with those funds?
Yeah, what's the plan?
What's the agenda?
Is there an agenda or is theremotivation?
There, probably is.
I mean, that's just a you know,somebody new doesn't understand
that.
Probably it's like a deer, anew deer.
It is when the leaves move.
The deer doesn't know what thatmeans, but an experienced deer
(29:18):
sees here's a leaf flicker inthe wind.
It's danger, yeah, or somethingyou know.
And right away they're alertyeah.
And you can't read that out ofa book, you just learn it by
being with people experiencingsuccess and failure.
The best feeling everybody'scommission driven me no
(29:40):
exception.
But when you walk away at thetable, both parties feel that
they are where they want to be.
Then you've done your worksuccessfully, Both sides.
You have a good rapport withboth of them.
To me, that's the real success.
Every now and then you'll do adeal and have a success and
(30:03):
somebody is not quite happy.
You go home and you think well,I got it done, but I wish they
were happier.
I don't know what I could havedone, but I wish they were
happier.
You know, I wish.
I don't know what.
Maybe I should have, shouldhave, would have, could have
done something.
Yeah, to turn a screw that Ididn't turn.
Maybe I should have turned itleft or should have turned it
(30:24):
right.
You know, I think that's whatI've learned a lot about is
being a broker.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
Yeah, if you're listening, Iwould rewind that past two to
three minutes and listen to thata couple of times back, because
you're looking at the pastperformance.
But with you know it all.
Summed up, have your detectivehat on.
You're looking at the pastperformance.
That's an indicator of whereyou're going, but're that's not
the full way.
The past is not alwaysindicative of the future.
(30:54):
Asking the right questions,that's gonna not only set
yourself up for a goodtransaction, but feeling good
after afterwards.
You know, if you're justrunning and gunning and trying
to get a deal just to do a deal,you're kind of setting yourself
up not for success too there.
So absolutely ton of goldnuggets.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I feel that, yeah, when you're just trying to get
the deal done, they feel that.
They feel that pressure you'regiving them and you and you, and
to steve's point, you.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
You might feel that too, you maybe you didn't felt
as sir.
You're not, you're not gonna.
Maybe you get the short buck,but you're not gonna last a long
time like just trying todevelop that into a long-term
relationship, potentially.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Brian does such a good job and what he does and
I've been watching him for a fewyears he knows how to create
and establish and maintainrelationships and you know most
of our business, the office,most of it's referrals.
Now I'm still promoting all thetime because you need new fish
(31:55):
in the aquarium.
Yeah, all the time people moveaway, they get sick, they get
married, they get divorced, they, whatever things change.
Life changes.
You need new fish, but the best, the warm calls and I'm not
going to mention the name here.
Somebody walked into my officethe other day.
This has been about a month ago.
I hope he didn't hear this.
I'm not going to mention thename here.
Somebody walked into my officethe other day.
This has been about a month ago.
I hope he didn't hear this.
(32:15):
I'm not going to tell you wherehe'd tell you.
He said see, I want to buy someproperty.
I hadn't seen the man in two orthree years.
I want to buy some property, Iwant you to help me.
And I said where is it?
And it's a well known street.
I guess they were.
And we closed it in about sixweeks because the timing was
(32:36):
right.
Yeah, it was just right.
Right, things just fell intoplace.
But the thing about it was hesaid you know what?
You've shown me so many yearsproperly, I never bought a thing
.
I said, yeah, you're right, younever bought a thing.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Price per hour is pretty low.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
But he said you always took care of me.
You always.
You know you never want to makepeople feel or think, even if
when you're young and you'rereally struggling, you leave.
You think, god, I gotta getthis deal.
I, you know I can't make my carpayment, whatever.
Yeah, you never show it.
You go in the alley.
When you finish it and you holdyour gun you say, oh my God, I
(33:14):
needed that deal.
But you never show that youneed the deal.
Never make it about you, it'sabout them.
If you think that way, if youthink about helping this person
get what they want, the moneywill come.
(33:35):
That just equates with themoney.
You know you're in athleticsand you play basketball
basketball season right now,yeah, and you don't think about
I've got to make this bucket.
You know I've just got to gotto, got to make it.
If you just I'm playing for theteam and I'm going to make it,
(33:57):
you go.
If you study it too hard,you're your own worst enemy.
Just do it and think about theperson you're trying to help,
listen to them and you forgetabout yourself.
You can worry about yoursituation when you go home that
night, yeah, and when you walkout the door in the morning,
(34:18):
whether things are reallybeautiful and rosy or maybe it
looks cloudy, whatever it is itcan be both, whatever it could
be, both, whatever it is.
You put it as you guys.
Sometimes it takes some uh,self-control, chutzpah.
If you know what that is,chutzpah is a Hebrew word.
Chutzpah means you've got guts,you put it together, you've got
(34:43):
to do what you've got to do.
I've got to suture this up andtake care of my day.
I'll deal with my home tomorrownight tonight Hopefully it's
not tomorrow night, it's tonightI'm going to deal.
You know you got to do whenyou're professional.
If you were a professionalsinger, dancer, whatever it's
(35:03):
showtime, curtain time you goout and it's people bought
tickets, it's showtime, nomatter what your problem is,
yeah, we'll deal with it.
When it's when you're off thestage, yeah, yeah, I mean it's
steve's three w's work when andwhere is what?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I equate that to working hard to put yourself in
the right situation whensomething arises, when the
person comes, knocks on yourdoor that you haven't seen in
two to three years because youput yourself in that position.
I think it's such a commondenominator of success of the
guests that we've had on thispodcast and the think how can I
(35:43):
help the person in front of me?
Not necessarily like I win bymaking you win that's such a
common denominator of success.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
We've heard that time and time again from people
we've had on the show.
They're like if you lift theclient up, like you're going to
be successful.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
You know all you guys and I've known Brian a while,
but I just you're recentlyacquainted.
Yeah, all you guys have it.
I can tell you, do you do?
I appreciate that I'm usuallyright on my people, not always.
I'll make, not always.
Don't make me an exception.
I want to expand a little biton your question.
(36:17):
There is opportunity andthere's challenges.
They are not the same in mymind.
A challenge I look at achallenge as I need to get my
systems down where they flow.
So when I see an opportunity,I'm prepared, my systems are in
(36:44):
place to chase the opportunity.
They're not the same.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (36:51):
That's really good.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
So an opportunity arises and I'm scattered and I'm
not organized and I don't knowwhat I'm doing.
I'm not prepared to besuccessful and competitive in
chasing that.
But if I'm organized andeverything you know, I know
where my bullets are.
Not real life here.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
I know where my ammo is.
I'm prepared to chase thatopportunity.
And opportunity meanspossibilities.
It doesn't mean success, itdoesn't mean failure, it means
neither.
It just means to be decided.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Correct me if I'm wrong.
So what I'm hearing from whatyou're saying is potentially
that could mean passing a smell.
Test for a potential client isgoing A, we interviewed this guy
.
Test for a potential client isgoing hey, we interviewed this
guy.
And if you don't know whatyou're talking about, have
certain systems in place, havecertain processes in place.
That client's going to besomeone you could never chase
after because they know I mean,people in our industry can smell
(37:52):
BS from a mile away and if youdon't have that foundation laid
of what you're talking about,those systems processes it even
just being able to bs your waythrough a conversation here and
there.
They can, they can smell if youare doing that.
So having the foundation ofknowing your stuff and having
that set so that you can't, isthat am I hearing that correctly
(38:14):
?
Speaker 4 (38:14):
yeah, I think um, uh, if I, if I see an opportunity
in a sector which I haven'tworked in a while okay, medical,
I've not done anything medicalin quite a while okay, I'm not
really.
My systems are not in place, Ireally can't discuss it
intelligently.
I mean, I know there's a lot ofplumbing needs, I know there's
(38:36):
parking, I know fundamentals,but I'm not sure where the
market is and maybe thatneighborhood.
So I need to go do someresearch before I open my mouth.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
So I'm prepared and you know, to sell that.
Let's say, someone comes to youand they're like Steve, I need
to buy this big commercialhospital or something like that.
You go, you feel confident tosay, hey, let me me do some
research all the time, yeah, allthe time.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
I.
That actually happenedyesterday, uh, uh, in tiny town,
so I was asking me about it andI'm not, you're not.
I'm especially like I need todo.
Let me get back with you.
I'm not, I don't want to, Idon't want to walk something
back.
Give me a couple of days, I'llcall you back and we'll discuss
this further.
Okay, and they respect that.
Yeah, people just shoot offyour mouth.
(39:26):
I mean yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
I think that's important too, for not only for
the brokerage business but forinvestors and investors.
Listening is to be able to havethe bullets in the gun and have
the preparation of.
You know, brian, I think Ithink Brian's talked a little
bit about in past podcasts Like,I mean, how many deals before
you bought your first biggerdeal, how many deals do you
think you passed out, you passedup or or analyzed?
(39:50):
I mean maybe 50 hundreds.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Yeah, I mean it's changed the market.
I mean now it's like underwritea hundred deals and do one.
Before it might have been 50deals and do one or 20.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
So it's all about?
I think a lot of it like whatyou're saying is having the
bullets in the gun to not onlyunderstand as an investor to
understand what you're lookingto get into but also, even with
the other arms of it,understanding the debt and how
to get the debt and who thepartners of getting the debt
looks like.
It's just who those partners ofgetting the debt looks like.
It's just who those partnersneed to be, who those partners
(40:24):
need to be to help you with itThings like that.
I think that's got to be animportant thing for you and
clients that you work with right.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Yeah, it is.
You know beautiful high-risebuildings.
It really comes down to people.
I mean, it's all about peace.
I had a phone, I don't know.
I can't seem to turn it off.
I've done everything.
I noticed I need to step on it.
Relationships, and you knowthis industry, the variation.
(41:01):
Forget the industry.
Just take a broker, just thatpiece of an industry.
There's construction, there'sfinance, there's all these
different appraisers, surveyors,title companies.
There's so many differentaspects, but just what I'm in
broker, just being a broker, thethings you touch, from finance
(41:22):
to marketing to management,management of people, managing
your systems, keeping up withrates up and down, what's the
influence on them?
Infrastructure is our.
That's our to me.
I think if there's a cap, Idon't mean a cap rate, I mean a
(41:43):
cap on success.
Here.
Now, long term isinfrastructure.
We're almost a victim of ourown success.
Yeah, we've had so much success.
We're all doing the capacity ofdevelopment.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
Well, that affects what it affects sellers, it
affects brokers, it affectsbuyers, it affects construction
people.
Yeah, buyers, it affectsconstruction people.
Yeah, title companies,insurance people.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
It affects the whole chain.
I think that's something we'veheard, with one with Tom Allen
and then one with Mayor DougSprouse when we had him Was that
was a common thing that theywere thinking about a lot.
You know, of course, tom's nota mayor, but he's in a lot of
the stuff, he almost is.
Speaker 4 (42:24):
He almost is Mayor Tom.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Mayor Tom.
But they're thinking a lotabout the infrastructure and
they're going.
What's this?
We know the data and the datashows we're going, we're
continuing.
We have 40-some-odd familiesthat move here a day.
They're thinking about that alot and so I think it's a great
point.
You brought that up andlistener, listening like the
people over some decision makingstuff here are thinking about
(42:50):
the infrastructure.
I guess I'm more so talking tothe listener right now, and so I
think you're correct.
We almost are a victim of ourown success and I think the
local people feel it.
You feel a little bit morecongested in traffic.
You know, going out toCenterton, coming in at 5
o'clock, just absolutely sucks.
Like there's some roads gettingto the interstate right now.
That, and I would 100% agreewith you, but more so.
(43:12):
I wanted to make a point to alistener.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
Right there there's a lot of impedance in deals right
now, particularly with landdeals, because you buy it, you
got to sit on it for we don'tknow how long.
If it's a loan, you're payinginterest on it.
If it's cash, you paid for it.
It's money sitting theresleeping.
It's not working.
It could be in a bank account,it could be in a crypto, it
(43:37):
could be in anything, hopefullyearning money.
You just lay, laying there flat.
So infrastructure affects everysingle person.
I don't care who you are, Idon't care where you are on the
table.
You will be affected adversely.
If it's not solved, we'll seewhat happens.
(43:58):
It's all about money and timingand even if you have the money
today, just getting it done withenvironmental issues,
construction issues, just a lot.
So this has been really fun andinteresting.
I don't know if I've talked toomuch.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
I think it be good for us to go over some some of
the skyline report too.
Um, just, we have a lot ofpeople from across the country,
honestly, that listen becausethere's a lot of eyeballs in
northwest arkansas and so givingthem a little bit of a
breakdown of what we're seeingin the skyline report listener,
if you're listening, or you'relistening, so you're hearing
this.
The Skyline report is a localreport that goes over commercial
(44:43):
residential numbers for 2024.
And I think it'd be good tojust do a quick little recap of
this.
Maybe not to what, let's spendlike five, six minutes on this
and then we have some funquestions and out to show, but I
think it's been great.
Brian, could you start us offwith some some of the stuff?
Let's just we'll kind of be alittle fact spitting off here
about Northwest Arkansas market.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yeah, and I've got the commercial.
I got the highlights from thesecond half of 2024.
Commercial highlights,multifamily highlights obviously
that's my niche, that I'vechosen multifamily.
And the market vacancy forNorthwest Arkansas remained at
3.3%.
(45:24):
That's really good.
That's really people you knowlocally.
People have this kind of fearof they see cranes in the sky,
they see more developmentshappening but despite all the
development, there is just somuch population growth and such
a need for these new apartmentsthat they're able to absorb this
supply.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
And for national reference too.
What do you think nationalvacancy rates look like right
now?
Maybe 8%?
Speaker 2 (45:52):
to 10%.
Yeah, you better be Ifsomeone's not.
Usually I would say if you'rebuying an A-class deal, you
should underwrite for a 5%vacancy and then you probably
should underwrite for another 5%of concessions.
Bad debt A-class not so muchbad debt, but usually around 10%
total economic vacancy turnoverbut you can't underwrite that.
(46:16):
In Northwest Arkansas I thought, which was really crazy is
Springdale.
The vacancy rate decreased to1.9 percent.
So well, being below twopercent is unheard of, I think,
in any kind of sub-market.
So obviously that points to aneed for more housing in
Springdale particularly.
Um Bentonville decreased tofour percent.
(46:39):
So that actually wasBentonville increased to 4.5%
and even 5% because of newdevelopment, but it's gone back
down.
So I think you'll have thesekind of ebbs and flows.
Rogers was decreased to 5.3,but they were up to they.
They went all the way up to6.9% in the second half of 2024.
(46:59):
So they dropped, dropped to 5.3.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
So almost seeing like a little uptick when stuff gets
built.
It's like boom and then kind ofthe field evens out and then it
comes back down to catching up.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Yeah, it's interesting to see the
absorption rates of how quicklythings are getting.
I mean multifamily gets filledup right.
Speaker 4 (47:20):
Yeah, I would mention to those numbers.
You look at what's driving that.
Those are numbers, those arevalid numbers and in my mind
there's several things that aredriving that.
They're all pretty obvious.
So I'm not saying that everyonehere at the table doesn't see
that.
But you have in migration atthe table doesn't see that
(47:41):
Dollar.
You have in-migration.
At the same point in time youhave inflation, make it very
difficult to finance a home.
At the same time you have thecost of goods, of lumber, of
materials, going at inflation,making it difficult to buy.
You have all those restrictionson development excuse me, on
(48:05):
buying a home.
Yet at the same time,simultaneously, you have this
in-migration, which we want.
So you got flows of peoplecoming in and it's so expensive
to buy a home because of all thethings that are maybe not so
localized.
The inflation is not local, thecost of goods and services is
(48:28):
not local.
Now the restrictions locally,with all the city restrictions.
That adds to developmentchallenges.
But all that going on, theconvergence of all those events
at the same time, this wave ofpeople coming in.
Where can they go butapartments?
It's economically the onlything they can do.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (48:54):
Nothing lasts forever .
I can tell you that you hearthe music and you're on the
dance floor, yeah, and ratesfall.
Yeah, okay, and we have a, afall and everything stops and,
uh, all of a sudden, everything,prices start falling, which is
not a good thing.
(49:14):
Yeah, yeah, okay, and all thoseprojections I've been through
it.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
I don't want it to go .
Speaker 4 (49:22):
I have to have my beautiful projections, yeah
exactly, Exactly, and you madeyour plan among all those things
that are going on at the sametime and the lights switched.
The music stopped and you're onthe dance floor.
The lights turn on.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
The lights turn on.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
Steve, I'd love to hear your thoughts on, as a real
estate investor, if that'sgoing to be let's say that's
going to be 100% of yourportfolio and what you believe
in.
How do you avoid the ebbs andflows of good times and bad
times?
Speaker 4 (49:56):
That's a real good question.
If you stayed in real estate,okay.
Well, there's things you can do.
You can diversify into sectors,you can diversify into
geography, not just going intoone area of the country.
That's good, because there'sdifferent dynamics and different
ones.
I think sectors and geographyand timing are all variables
(50:29):
that you could do if you're justgoing to do real estate, if you
put all your eggs in one basket, like I did in Oklahoma City.
It was mass vacancies there.
It was called U-Haul-haul cityliterally because the parking
lots and apartment buildings andwe would give a one month free
rent, two months free rent atthe front yeah when they burn
(50:49):
that off, they're gone, theu-haul's gone.
Yeah, living for free, baby,yeah, and we keep repainting
them, redoing them.
We think the walls are gettingsmaller because they've got so
much paint 30 layers deep.
Yeah, it's a foot deep now.
It used to be a 1,000-footapartment, now it's 850.
(51:11):
That's good.
It's just the environmentchanges.
It's so fluid.
When you're successful, it'snot all about you, and when you
don't make it, it's not allabout you either.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (51:25):
That's good, it's the truth.
It's the truth, and Brian isvery familiar with multifamily
here and it does a really greatjob.
When you look at all thesesectors, we don't have a strong
inventory over an abundance ofany inventory right now here.
Yeah, that's a great point.
(51:45):
Every single one of them is inshort supply.
That's an enigma that will notlast.
It's a photograph in time.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
Yeah, absolutely Reading the office vacancy rate
decrease to 6.3, just evendecreasing is now something you
hear nationally, like northwestarkansas.
Being under 10 is wild to sayfor office, and even decreasing
is is also talking about wherebeing in the right market for
that.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
It's uh yeah, I love that.
We I think I think we talkabout this often like you know,
austin now is hitting.
You know, you see in theheadlines, like Austin,
apartments vacancies are goingup a ton and single-family homes
are dropping 20%, 38%, andpeople are freaking out.
But I think at some pointNorthwest Arkansas has to hit.
(52:35):
That it will, because we I meanit's inevitable, right, austin
has obviously had this awesomecome up and this rise and then
eventually it flattens out andmaybe migration isn't as much as
it was before, or maybe it'sfinally supply has caught up to
demand and maybe people go,austin's going to crap, but,
(52:58):
like Austin, coming from here tohere is still pretty good,
right, exactly.
Speaker 4 (53:02):
Exactly yeah.
It became almost a victim ofthe sales success.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (53:07):
Yeah, and Florida's had highs and lows.
I mean Florida's a non-taxstate, no tax.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
Yeah, and insurance?
Speaker 4 (53:16):
Yeah, but I think if you spread your capital and your
deals into various sectors andvarious areas of growth cities
that are growing, look at thosenumbers.
What's driving the numbers?
You know, when somebody asksyou for a vacancy report, no,
(53:44):
take that back.
They want to see comps.
They want to see comps and yougive them paper and here the
comp is the rates per foot are Xand over here they're Y.
Just looking at the paperdoesn't tell you what's driving
that.
You've got to go out and see whyis it different here than there
(54:08):
, within a block or two away?
Probably some topographychanges, some demographic
changes, some flood issues.
The numbers are driven bysomething and just the numbers.
Just email All the numbers, thecops, something and just the
numbers you email.
I'll email you the numbers, thecops, if they don't go out
there and look.
You send emails to Los Angeles.
You send cops, I'll send youthe cops.
(54:29):
They're not here to look at theproperty so they see the
differentiation of range, butthey don't really know.
You gotta go out and put yourfoot on the ground.
You gotta see it why.
There's a reason why this homesold for this and that one with
the same footage sold fordefinitely a block away.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah, Like well, this one's right across from the new
Walmart headquarters and thisone's half a mile they change
tires and oil the place.
Speaker 4 (55:00):
Yeah, there's things driving those numbers, but in
our sector, every single sectoris not an abundant supply.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
That's a great point.
Speaker 4 (55:14):
Not one, not one that's in a problem.
So you could put some warehousedeals together Multi-family,
single family, whatever.
Yeah, it's across the board.
Across the board.
I think about buying in frontof what.
(55:36):
You perceive that, where thefreight train's coming, where
the lights are okay, like theairport, yeah, yep, yep, there's
a freight train coming there.
There's some sewer issues there, there's some things worked out
, but long term, there's afreight train there.
If you're patient, you wait,you gotta wait.
Uh, I have to sit for a while.
(55:56):
Yeah, you know.
And if you say are, are you apatient?
You have patient money?
No, I'm in a hurry.
Well, the airport's probablynot for you.
Just put that aside.
Yeah, just put that aside.
I want to buy something andflip it.
Don't go there.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
Yeah, not the airport .
That's a great point.
I think what you talked a lotis like knowing your client,
what they're looking for, whattheir needs are, and something I
feel that I've heard you say isyou listen really well and you
listen to what the needs of thebuyer and the seller are and you
take a step back and youbreathe and you go.
What's a win-win for the sellerand the buyer here?
(56:32):
And how can I converge both ofthose together and that's what
makes a real win.
Speaker 4 (56:39):
Yeah, yeah, some of it's family issues.
If it win, yeah, some of it'sfamily issues if it's a family,
some of it's corporate issues,tax issues, some people, some
things.
Sometimes they've got cash theyneed to place.
It's doing nothing.
That's a situation.
Yeah, I love hearing thatsituation.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
We got a hole in my pocket.
You mean you?
Speaker 4 (57:00):
don't need financing.
Love it situation, love it.
Yeah, yeah, years ago I waswith this guy showing a
warehouse and I didn't know whohe was and he drove up in an old
truck and he did.
He looked like saying somewhatragged, and he didn't say very
much.
I walk him around a 40, 40thousand square foot or
something building like that, hedidn't say very much.
I walked him around a 40,000square foot or something
(57:21):
building like that.
He didn't say hardly anything.
So finally I said do you like?
Because it was just silent,just looking.
He just kept looking.
I said do you like what you see?
He nods his head, yeah.
I said well, are you ready tomake an offer?
He says yeah, I think so.
I said where do you bank Arvest?
(57:43):
I said follow me, that's allyou need to know.
Case closed.
Speaker 1 (57:52):
Oh my gosh, that's so good.
Let's wrap it up with this.
I think I'd like.
Maybe listeners like no, whatdoes the next five, ten years
look like for you?
Uh, as you know, you're, you're.
You've of course made such agreat, great name brand.
You bring yourself great withthe feinberg grain and what,
(58:13):
what did you?
What do you envision foryourself over the next five, ten
years, and and what do you seethe commercial market doing in
the next five to ten years?
Speaker 4 (58:23):
Well, let's talk about the market first.
Yeah, this market short term isgoing to have some bumps due to
the infrastructure.
I don't know how you cannot.
I mean you can't fix thosethings with the flip of a light
switch, correct, I mean youcan't fix those things with the
(58:43):
flip of a light switch.
But long term, it's positioningin the United States
geographically the talent here,the educational schools here and
they're becoming better, Ithink.
I think there's things beingdone to improve education.
Our low crime rate, ourseasonality here are all
(59:06):
conducive for a really in ourminds here.
This is an area of a lot ofinnovation, yeah, technological
innovation way beyond what we'rethinking today.
So this is going to be along-term good play.
Yeah, I wouldn't necessarilyput all my base in one basket,
(59:28):
but you're gonna pick a place.
This is a horse you bet on.
Yeah, yeah, you really do, yeah.
And and I say that everymedical, like our medical, is
growing here.
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh mygosh.
That's going to be an industryby itself.
How can you forget retail here?
My gosh, largest retailer inthe world.
But medical is becoming its own, you know its own entity, its
(59:57):
own being Just that.
All the support for that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
And home construction , road construction.
I mean everything here.
This is the new frontier and alot of young people moving in
here.
I think that's a great thing.
Yeah, this is not a seniorcitizen's.
I shouldn't say that because ofmy age.
Yeah, 100%.
(01:00:29):
And for myself.
My runway is getting shorter,so I've talked to my wife about
what the future is.
But I love working.
I've got a really great team ofpeople.
Some have been with me 10, 11years, 12 years, so I really
(01:00:53):
like that.
I like the camaraderie, thegive and take, the
differentiation and ideas thatwe bounce off and always not
agree.
We agree to disagree and moveon.
I love marketing.
I love to market.
(01:01:14):
I think that's kind of fun.
I like to be in front of peopletrying to put two opposite ends
of the deal together.
Yeah, I like doing that.
I think that's fun.
Yeah, so as far as I know, I'mgoing to stay on the dance floor
if I stay healthy.
Yeah, keep dancing, keepdancing.
Yeah, as far as I know.
Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
Yeah, steve, I'll call you if it changes, yeah,
Can you tell the personlistening how they can reach out
to you if they're looking forsomething in the commercial
world, or just how to contactyour company?
Oh, gladly, yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:01:49):
How many times do you want me to repeat that?
Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
You can repeat it as many times as you want.
They can pause on this Okay.
Speaker 4 (01:01:53):
Well, my personal cell number is 479-409-4756.
The office number and we havesome beautiful I mean in the way
in which they answer the phonebeautiful receptionists, and
that's 479-271-4161.
(01:02:15):
And they will be glad to takeyour call.
They will listen and direct youto who they feel will be most
apt to help you.
It could be me, it could beanother agent.
If they're not sure, they'llprobably give it to me and I'll
decide whether I should do thator bring in another agent.
I work a lot of deals togetherwith my agents.
(01:02:38):
I love working with them.
I work a lot of deals togetherwith my agents.
I love working with them.
And then our email address issteve at arkrealestate, and
that's one word arkrealestate.
For those of you out of state,ark was the old abbreviation for
Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
Alaska.
It's arkreal Real Estate.
Ark Real Estatecom.
Maybe this has been really fun.
Yeah, it's been great.
I so much appreciate it, Brian.
I'm being invited.
Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
I really did.
We'll bring you back again.
I'd love to come back.
It's fun.
Speaker 4 (01:03:13):
I have more fun than I thought.
Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
I've never done this before you had so many great
nuggets, Steve, Steve, one ofthe last nuggets I want to
reiterate because I really likethis quote.
I thought it'd be good forinvestors or anybody listening.
But success what you said wassuccess is a combination of work
ethic, location, timing andthen a little bit of luck.
So we appreciate your nuggetsthat you brought today.
Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
Yeah, for sure.
Thank you, it really is.
It's the mix, it's not any onething.
It's never just you, it's not.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
If you fish in waters wherethere's no fish, I don't care
how good a fisherman you are,there's no fish.
Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Thank you, guys for listening.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Thanks guys, thank you.
If you enjoyed the show.
Make sure to give us a followon your favorite podcast
platform so you never miss anupdate.
Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Don't forget to connect with us on Instagram,
facebook and LinkedIn for morereal estate insights and behind
the scenes content.
Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Have a question you want us to cover, send it our
way, and if you're interested insponsoring the show, visit
nwainvestingcom to get in touch.
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next time.
Welcome to Northwest Arkansas Investing Podcast, your
go-to source for real estateinvesting in Northwest Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
With your seasoned investor just starting out.
We bring you expert insights,market trends and practical
strategies to help you buildwealth through real estate.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
From buying and selling to property management
and long-term investmentplanning.
We cover it all so you can makesmart, informed decisions in
this fast-growing market.
Let's dive in.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Welcome to Northwest Arkansas Investing Podcast.
We have Steve Feinberg with us.
Owner, ceo, president whateveryou want to call him of Feinberg
Associates.
Thank you, steve for coming on.
We really appreciate your time.
I'm looking forward to a goodpodcast.
You've been great spirit so far.
We love people who are easy totalk to and you already seem
like one of those guys.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Well, thank you.
Thank you for inviting me.
I was surprised when Brianasked me and I'm honored to be
here.
Really, I feel privileged to behere.
Yeah, Thank you very much youhave years.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Thank you very much.
You have years.
I mean you just have.
You're one of the like to meyou know, brandon and I have
grown up in this area and to meyou're one of the staple names
in this area of.
When I think about real estate,especially commercial real
estate, I think of littleFeinberg comes to my mind, and
so I think that's maybe just atip of my cap to you and all
(01:22):
you've done over the years.
I mean it's been really cool tosee your brand grow and the
things you've been doing in thisarea.
So um really well.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Thank you for saying that.
Yeah, I guess all that doorknocking, phone calls, tires
that were in treasured on thecar automobiles I was paid off
yeah, it paid off somewhat.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
It paid off all that, yeah, all the stuff that nobody
else sees.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Sore knuckles, all of it.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Do people still doorknock for Rosicca?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
That's how it started .
Yeah, it is.
When I came here in 1996, theinterstate wasn't open.
Nothing you see around, Nothing.
You can drew like a 360-degreecircle and there's not a
building, not a in Greek, not anedifice that's present.
Then that's there.
Now it's totally another planet.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Did you come straight to Rogers or did you do where
did you land when you first cameto NWA in 96?
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Well, I don't want to dote on that, but I'll try to
answer your question.
I came from Dallas and I camefrom Dallas, okay, and I came
here.
Truth is, I came here brokebecause I had had a 10-year
successful experience inOklahoma City acquiring
apartment buildings with apartner and partners and that
(02:41):
was prior to anybody in thisroom being alive other than
Katie and we had a realsuccessful term until interest
rates became at 20%.
So I left Oklahoma City, wentto Dallas and struggled.
Dallas was right behindOklahoma, it was an energy state
and it was right behind thefall.
(03:02):
So I just whatever capital I hadremaining after losing all
those buildings, one at a time,trying to give them back to
lenders.
I spent everything I could tohold on.
In retrospect I wish I had donethat a little bit differently,
but so I came here.
I needed to start over, tostart a new real estate career,
(03:24):
and I'm a U of A graduate.
I grew up in Fort Smith so Ihad some familiarity
geographically, but I reallyknew nobody any longer.
So that's the seed for me beinghere.
That's all the door knockingand the phone calling and all
that.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Well, a line I'm hearing so far with just talking
to you is that it wasn'tnecessarily that you had this
huge master plan laid out andyou're like here's the steps for
my life, but you, just you justgot after it and started
throwing punches and seeing whatstuck and and fight.
Is that kind of?
Would you agree?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Yeah, I mean, everybody has a personal story
and mine started out fairlyaustere and then I had more
success in Oklahoma than I everthought I would have as a young
guy and then vacancies fell to20%, 30% because there was a
(04:26):
mass exodus of people leavingthe area due to the energy
sector.
So all that success justdiminished so fast, like a fast
elevator falling.
You could not.
It was just mass, massbankruptcies nationally at that
time.
Just mass, mass bankruptciesnationally at that time.
And so I just all I knew was towork, I mean just market and
(04:52):
work and struggle, and that'swhat brought me here.
I didn't have a master plan, Ijust knew I needed a fresh
canvas from Dallas and that'swhat brought me here.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And then, just one day at a time, one brick at a
time, Well, it sounds like youhave quite the appetite for risk
, because I think if a lot ofpeople would have gone through
exactly what you went through,probably they would have not
thrown the punch again.
I mean, I can't imagine goingthrough that and being like,
let's, let's go do it again, oryou know I was burning with, uh,
(05:30):
determination.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Yeah, um, I so I think that was the impetus
behind it all.
I I had not really worked foranybody.
Yeah, is that you or me?
So, pardon me.
So, uh, I just you know, whenyou work for someone else, there
there is a ceiling, and I'vealways liked to work where there
(05:55):
is no ceiling.
Yeah, that, whatever you do,it's dependent upon when, where
and who you are.
It's not just who you are, it'sdependent upon when, where and
who you are.
It's not just who you are, it'swhen you're there, where you
are, where the when is, and you,the convergence of those three
things.
So I just thought, you know, Iwant to do and build and I just
(06:20):
that's.
I don't know, I think there's aDNA there, maybe Some people
just have it.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Well, I mean, I don't know if I think there's a DNA
there, maybe Some people justhave it.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Well, I mean, I don't know if it's a good thing to
have.
I mean, honestly, you ride alot of roller coasters.
You're up, you're down, you'reup, you're down, you're
successful, you're notsuccessful.
You're drinking the wine andthen the next day you're
stomping the grapes.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
So I've done all of that and uh, it's it's been
quite a journey.
Yeah, here uh, northwestarkansas has treated me very,
very well.
I'll just tell you that, yeah,I came here didn't know anybody,
and and everybody uh was veryopen to discussion and talking
and, um, one thing led toanother.
I just, you know what, that'show, that's how I did it, yeah.
(07:10):
Yeah, I mean it's no secret,it's just, don't tell anybody,
but you just work hard and get alittle, a little luck along the
way.
Yeah, good, luck yeah good luck.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
So so what?
Uh, I'd love to hear a littlebit more about your time in
Oklahoma and you don't have todive too deep.
But what?
Originally it sounds like as ayoung age or at a young age you
started buying some apartmentcomplexes with some partners and
things like that.
What first struck that love forreal estate or that interest in
real estate, I guess.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Well, I was contacted by somebody to manage some
apartment buildings and I was inSan Antonio, texas, at that
time.
I was contacted by somebody tomanage some apartment buildings
and I was in San Antonio, texas,at that time.
I was about 24, 23, 24 yearsold, I had been in the military
in the Vietnam era and so I wentto work in Oklahoma City as a
(08:00):
property manager managing acouple thousand apartment units
and, honestly, the people whoreported to me knew more about
the business than I did.
That's the truth.
But I learned a lot.
I learned how to budget, columnby column, month by month,
expense code by expense code,annually, annual budgets, and in
those days we did them withspreadsheets.
(08:22):
Yeah, and it was a real journey.
I mean you would, and, uh, theleader at that time I worked for
um, I learned a lot from himand I did that for, I think,
three years left.
I said you know what, I can dothis myself.
So, uh, I set up a table in, uh, my bedroom that time, my wife
(08:43):
at that time in our bedroom atthat time, and a calculator and
I said I'm going to go out andfind management, apartment
management.
So I would go to the OklahomaCity Courthouse, county
Courthouse and look up ownershipof real estate in Oklahoma City
.
And it was small, over thecountry, it was Los Angeles,
(09:06):
canada, the future 51st state,I'm just kidding but all over
the country and I would call andmake cold calls.
So I got used to making coldcalls and I had contracts signed
.
It's just fine, tell it fine,and so then the interest rates
(09:28):
set in.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
And people.
I'm calling the ownershipbecause I'm managing their
building fee management.
Everybody had a separateaccount.
We didn't co-mingle any moneyand I would say we need $10,000,
$5,000, $20,000, whatever itwas for your account to make
payrolls and mortgage paymentsand keep the pool clean.
And I got really tired ofmaking cash calls and they got
(09:51):
tired of paying them and I couldsee their books because I know
how poorly they were doing.
So I would suggest you know if Icould get you out, if I could
put a deal together and take anote.
Would you be interested in that?
Just to get out of the fire?
And the answer was often yes,yeah, please.
(10:12):
So I went to an attorney, had aprospectus drawn up with all
the proper disclosures at theSEC at that time.
It still is that way and Iwould cold call investors
one-on-one.
You're a doctor, you're an oilman, you're whatever you are.
And I've got units in thisbuilding, uh, 50 000 unit 20,
(10:35):
whatever it was, and I'm raisinga million dollars or half a
million dollars or whatever itwas.
Yeah, and they sign with allthe disclosures of all the
things that could go awry.
And there's always things thatcan go, you know, yeah uh excuse
me.
So I did that and we assembledabout 20 partnerships.
(10:56):
Uh, in aggregate there wasroughly 100 partners.
Some of them were investors inseveral, several buildings.
Right, some may be just single,and I'm proud to say I never
had an investor call me backangry that we were losing them.
And I think the reason thathappened is because every time I
(11:17):
took a breath, I wrote a letter.
I wrote a letter of what I'mdoing, I'm raising rents, I'm
lowering rents, I'm doing this,I'm doing that, and raising
rents, I'm lowering rents, I'mdoing this, I'm doing that and
do I have the support?
And so everybody was keptabreast.
Yeah, and I never had aninternal revenue problem with
all the partners becauseeverybody knew.
You know, there was no claimwhere you would have, could have
(11:38):
, should have done this or that.
Yeah, would have, could have,should have done this or that.
Yeah, and there was, at thattime, there was what was called
phantom income, and some of youmay know what that is, that's if
you're a general partner, and Iwas the general partner, and in
(12:00):
those days, the federalgovernment had installed what
was called accelerateddepreciation, giving investors
the right, the opportunity, totake accelerated depreciation,
not a 25 or 30 year write off,but maybe a five year write off
and you take that building rightoff in five years.
Well, all of that shelteredincome from the investors OK, so
(12:20):
you add that shelter.
The result of that shelter plusthe cash flow, those returns
were pretty good.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
And that worked out well for about five, six years.
And then when you say you haveto ask for cash, it goes away
real quickly.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, I tell you.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Yeah, so I learned how to manage properties, the
physicality, managing theresident managers.
I did sales training with them,how to lease an apartment, how
to give a tour, how to get thelease signed, yada, yada yada.
(12:59):
We have role playing with mymanagers.
And then I got big enough whereI hired a certified property
manager.
So they reported to me and theywould do that, and and then
you're managing, as Brian does,the fiscal, the monetary
management of the each investorinvestment.
So all that went, you know,down the drain with the loss of
(13:22):
the buildings.
Yeah, and then I moved toDallas and I thought, thought,
well, I'll do there what I didin Oklahoma.
But that didn't work outbecause Dallas was right behind
Oklahoma in the dissension ofthe fall.
So all I knew was apartments.
I didn't know retail, office,industrial, I just knew—I didn't
(13:43):
know medical, I just knewapartments.
So I thought didn't knowmedical, I just knew apartments.
So I thought I need to learnhow to play more instruments in
the orchestra, more instrumentsin the band.
Yeah, so I started hanging outwith some retail guys down there
and they taught me how to do acommercial lease.
So you know, it's not that,it's not rocket science, right?
So, uh, that's I.
(14:04):
I had to learn how to do to addto my skill set, yeah and uh.
So when I moved here, theapartments were so small you
couldn't make any money managingthem.
You know, uh, you need thiscause consolidation, because if
you run here for 10 units, theone over there for 30 units,
(14:25):
you're not, you're just spinningyour wheels.
So I said I'm not doing anymore management.
And of course, now, then thetechnology has changed.
It was all done by then withspreadsheets.
Now it's all input with Excel,charts, et cetera, software.
But the fundamentals wereexactly the same.
You know, it's income andexpenses, yeah, and that's what
(14:50):
it boils down to.
So I've never done managementhere.
I've thought about attemptingto do that now that their
buildings are larger, butthey're already managed.
You're not allowed to call onanother listing, so I can't.
It's hard to break into.
I know how I've just beensticking to.
(15:11):
What I've done here isbrokering Retail, warehouse,
office, medical.
What else Did I name them all?
Retail, office, medical,industrial we do it all In a
market this size.
When I came here, what else DidI name them?
all Retail office, industrial,industrial, yeah, yeah.
So we do it all.
And in a market this size, whenI came here, if you did not be
(15:33):
pretty adept at all of them, youwould not make a living because
each sector was so small, yeah,yeah.
And if you're in a larger citylike Dallas, you would just
focus on a sector Maybe it'smedical, maybe it's fast food,
maybe it's retail or whatever itis.
But in a market this sizealthough it's getting to be a
size now you could almostspecialize, but in those days
(15:57):
you had to do everything and bepretty good at it.
Now there are issues that wedon't have, that you would have
in a larger city, like airrights, things that you know we
don't have to confront here,right, so I'm not skilled at
that because I'm in a marketthat we're not doing that, but
if I went to Chicago I'd have tolearn how to do that.
(16:18):
Oh, yeah.
You know, you become adaptable.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Do you feel?
How did you, when you movedhere in 96 to now, would you
have anticipated what happenedto Northwest Arkansas in the
last since 96 to 2025?
Speaker 4 (16:33):
No way.
No way I mean anybody that saysthat they're clairvoyant, they
got skill, they are.
Crystal ball somewhere.
Oh my gosh, they are brilliant.
I want to drink whateverthey're having.
No, I had no idea.
And part of what brought mehere my mother had developed
cancer in Fort Smith and I keptcoming back up from Dallas more
(16:55):
frequently to see her.
And as I would come up here tosee her, I would drive up here,
get her out of the house in FortSmith.
I see this area and I'mthinking, god, this is going to
take off.
But I had not as scintilla ofan idea what was going to happen
here.
How could I have had?
I mean, yeah, and you knowagain, your success is so
(17:18):
dependent on where you are whenyou're there and what your work
ethic is.
And then spice with a littlegood luck.
Yeah, all of that.
Yeah, you hinted at thatearlier.
You can't claim it's all aboutyou, because it's not all about
you.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, I mean, we're quite fortunate and blessed to
be and I tell my wife all thetime to be in this area of the
country where it's growing soquick.
It feels like you could almostbuy a Cracker Jack box and it's
going to be worth $50,000 morethe next year at this point and
I think it's almost a tell me ifI'm wrong almost like a
catch-22 where, like guys likeBrandon and I, we don't, we
(17:59):
don't.
They're really risk tolerantbecause we don't know what bad
really feels like.
When 2008 happened, we weren't,we didn't even know real estate
, the word real estate, yeah, sowe're just like bye, bye, bye,
bye, bye.
We don't, we don't have theinstitutional memory to know bad
To your point.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
I had no idea and I was almost telling you things
were going bad.
Nobody did.
All I had was your experienceof success.
Yeah, that city, the thing wasgoing to go bad.
Nobody did.
All I had was your experienceof success.
That's all I knew.
If I didn't put a deal together, I'm losing.
And I kept putting these dealstogether to feed the bear
Because if I don't, I'm notgetting fees.
I'm not doing it if I'm notputting it and I had no index
(18:43):
for failure.
And when I remember failure itdoesn't mean it's ascribed to
you Failure in an era.
I didn't know what it was andwhen it hit it knocked the
breath out of me.
Really, I didn't know what thatwas and I mean it was a hit in
the jaw and the stomach andgroin and everything else.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
I mean I was a hit in the jaw and the stomach and
groin and anything else.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
I mean, I was reeling .
I had all that responsibilitywith 100 partners and I was what
at that time?
About 27 or 28, was the timeinvolved?
Yeah, so you have no index Nowand I don't want to overstate
the case.
But people say what's your bestdeal?
(19:27):
What's your best deal?
Well, define the best deal towhom.
What are you looking for?
Is it appreciation?
Is it cash flow?
Is it long-term growth?
Is it immediate return?
What is it?
You've got to define what agood deal is and what their
(19:49):
needs are.
But now I used to tell people Iwouldn't say that right now, but
I would say this area.
You could almost say that now,but it wouldn't be technically
correct.
You want to do it as correct asyou can.
You could say early on, throw adart at a map and you're going
to pick an area that's going togrow.
(20:10):
It may be not as fast as theone down the road, but you're
not going to lose, right, youknow it's been that kind of an
area and over long term it'sprobably not far from the truth.
Now, yeah, unless it's in aswamp, you know.
Yeah, or it's got, it's a wastedump or something yeah, it's
(20:32):
going, or something yeah, it'sgoing to grow.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, that's kind of been we've talked about it
before is you know?
Just the data shows me that wecan be a little risky.
We can do this and do that.
You can toss it to the side ifyou want to.
We can be a little riskybecause the area data shows that
, like we can buy this and dothis because we're going to
double in population on the next.
(20:55):
However, and if we're going todouble in population the next 15
, 20 years and we're going to bearound it, there's a lot of
room to mess up, to hit yourface and still keep walking or
jogging or something.
And so that's why brandon brianand I we've talked about all
the time is like man, I, man.
I think it does boil down towhat you know.
You don't just go out and buy amillion-dollar home and try to
(21:16):
long-term rent it out.
I mean, you don't do stupidstuff like that but you find the
best deal for the specificperson and then you keep
trudging forward and you know, Ithink having an institutional
memory from men like yourselfand knowing the history of what
could happen, I think is smartto have in the back of our brain
.
But I don't know this area.
I feel very blessed to be here.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
This is a place Somebody told me recently a
client he was thinking aboutmoving to Florida and he's a
very successful.
He said you know this place isa hard place to leave.
I said you know it is.
It really is, with all theculture here now going on and
it's just a fun place.
And talk about risk tolerance.
(22:06):
Never say never about anything.
I mean never say that youcannot lose.
Yeah, never say that you'vereached the top, never say
you've reached the bottom unlessyou're in a hospital.
I mean uh, uh, take this in theright way the, the human being,
(22:30):
the range of good and bad.
Okay, in my mind would be fromHitler to Jesus.
Okay, that's the range of thehuman being, Right, and markets
are the same way.
They can go below flat, theycan go below zero, under, okay,
and they can go to the altitude.
(22:50):
Yeah, that's the range and youwant to be on the positive side,
but some things are happeningand it happened way beyond your
foresight, your control.
It could be something inUkraine that affects us.
In fact, we got so many thingsaffecting this market right now.
Yeah, I mean my gosh.
(23:11):
The things that can influencelease rates, construction.
How about infrastructure rightnow?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
It's infinite.
That's a good point.
And risk tolerance is sodependent on the person.
It's dependent on the age is abig factor.
Experience is a big factor.
At a young age you can outworksome mistakes, I think.
Think it's part of the mindset.
But also behind, like, whatmakes a good deal and what makes
a bad, like it's totallyrelevant to what your, what your
(23:40):
goals are.
What do you need?
What do you need?
Yeah, do you need short-termgains?
You need long?
What?
What your risk?
But that risk appetite alsogoes into what's a good deal.
A this deal we can flip in acouple years, but it but it.
Also.
We have high risk because we'reputting a lot of money into it.
We're depending on the marketto appreciate.
So that risk tolerance alsogoes into what a good return is.
(24:03):
Maybe someone is okay having avery good basis making an
average return, but their riskis very low.
So I think those all go intothe equation.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Yeah, it really does.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
You mentioned age.
Believe me, age has a lot to dowith your risk tolerance.
I'm not as brazen and asendearing as I was because I
know, if it turns out sour,whether it's my fault or
convergence of events outside ofmy control.
(24:37):
I don't have the time to work,as Brian said, to work it out.
You know, a friend of mine says, Steve, your runway's getting
short.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
So I don't have the runway to work out of it anymore
.
Well, you might not have thesubconscious pressure to take
the risk.
You know us being young, we'relike hey time to take risks.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
We feel like we're in our If you don't do it now,
when you've got the three of youat your age, I'm telling you
what, if I would give everythingaway, I would Not my family.
Let me say that.
Yeah, they're safe, but not that, but I would give everything
away I have, whatever it is away to go back 30-40 years and
get that back and do it again.
(25:18):
I really would.
Would I do some thingsdifferently?
I'd probably take more risk.
I would like to have what Iknow now.
If I went back, I wouldn't knownow what I didn't know then.
I think there used to be a songabout something like that If I
went back, I wouldn't know nowwhat I didn't know then.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Right, I think there used to be a song about
something like that.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
That's got to be a country song.
Yeah, it's a country song.
Yeah, I wish I didn't know nowwhat I knew then.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Something like the George Strait.
Steve, just as we talk aboutthe success of Northwest
Arkansas, what do you think froma brokerage standpoint and just
from an investor standpoint,what do you think you've learned
over the years when it comes tothe, of course, there's cycles
in real estate.
What do you think the biggestthings that you've learned over
those years?
We talk about mitigating riskand taking risk and all those
(26:05):
kind of things.
What do you think the biggestthing that you've learned just
being around real estatebrokering and all that kind of
stuff?
Speaker 4 (26:14):
That's a real good question.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I could expand on it.
That's a whole podcast rightthere.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Well, when you're looking at making projections,
you're looking in the rearviewmirror of what the past was, and
the past is not really a goodreflection of what tomorrow will
be, because so many new thingshappen.
With technology today, you canpick up the paper on any given
day and the world can be upsidedown with tariffs or weather or
(26:47):
inflation or whatever.
I think that I've learned thatyou really need to listen to
either side of the table inwhich you're talking to a buyer,
a seller, a tenant, a leaser.
(27:09):
You really need to listen andno deal is ever without
consequences to both sides ofthe table and they have
diametric, uh visions and youyou need to.
Really, in my mind, it's notabout, it's not just about the
deal.
It's about what's behind thedeal that you don't see.
(27:30):
Yeah, and if you ask the rightquestions and listen, you can
get some insight into what'sdriving that buyer, whether it's
corporate or family or local.
You know a proprietor?
Yeah, the same thing on thebuying side.
(27:50):
I mean, there's somethingdriving that more than the deal.
It's not just the deal.
It never is.
There's always tentacles behindwhy they're doing what they're
doing, and I think, as a, I'm aprofessional broker, okay.
So I need to work in theenvironment in which I'm in, the
geography and the economicclimate in which I'm in.
So I geography and the economicclimate in which I'm in.
(28:12):
So I need to listen to thosetwo players, what they're trying
to achieve at that point intime in this environment, and
try to articulate, try to createsomething that will be a fit.
So you just don't sell, Justselling the deal.
(28:34):
I got to sell this building.
You need to find the rightparty for it, the right want,
the right, need the right.
If it's somebody's investmentstrategy or if it's somebody's
occupancy needs, Okay.
If it's a sale on the sellingside, what are they going to do
(28:56):
with those funds?
Yeah, what's the plan?
What's the agenda?
Is there an agenda or is theremotivation?
There, probably is.
I mean, that's just a you know,somebody new doesn't understand
that.
Probably it's like a deer, anew deer.
It is when the leaves move.
The deer doesn't know what thatmeans, but an experienced deer
(29:18):
sees here's a leaf flicker inthe wind.
It's danger, yeah, or somethingyou know.
And right away they're alertyeah.
And you can't read that out ofa book, you just learn it by
being with people experiencingsuccess and failure.
The best feeling everybody'scommission driven me no
(29:40):
exception.
But when you walk away at thetable, both parties feel that
they are where they want to be.
Then you've done your worksuccessfully, Both sides.
You have a good rapport withboth of them.
To me, that's the real success.
Every now and then you'll do adeal and have a success and
(30:03):
somebody is not quite happy.
You go home and you think well,I got it done, but I wish they
were happier.
I don't know what I could havedone, but I wish they were
happier.
You know, I wish.
I don't know what.
Maybe I should have, shouldhave, would have, could have
done something.
Yeah, to turn a screw that Ididn't turn.
Maybe I should have turned itleft or should have turned it
(30:24):
right.
You know, I think that's whatI've learned a lot about is
being a broker.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
Yeah, if you're listening, Iwould rewind that past two to
three minutes and listen to thata couple of times back, because
you're looking at the pastperformance.
But with you know it all.
Summed up, have your detectivehat on.
You're looking at the pastperformance.
That's an indicator of whereyou're going, but're that's not
the full way.
The past is not alwaysindicative of the future.
(30:54):
Asking the right questions,that's gonna not only set
yourself up for a goodtransaction, but feeling good
after afterwards.
You know, if you're justrunning and gunning and trying
to get a deal just to do a deal,you're kind of setting yourself
up not for success too there.
So absolutely ton of goldnuggets.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I feel that, yeah, when you're just trying to get
the deal done, they feel that.
They feel that pressure you'regiving them and you and you, and
to steve's point, you.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
You might feel that too, you maybe you didn't felt
as sir.
You're not, you're not gonna.
Maybe you get the short buck,but you're not gonna last a long
time like just trying todevelop that into a long-term
relationship, potentially.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Brian does such a good job and what he does and
I've been watching him for a fewyears he knows how to create
and establish and maintainrelationships and you know most
of our business, the office,most of it's referrals.
Now I'm still promoting all thetime because you need new fish
(31:55):
in the aquarium.
Yeah, all the time people moveaway, they get sick, they get
married, they get divorced, they, whatever things change.
Life changes.
You need new fish, but the best, the warm calls and I'm not
going to mention the name here.
Somebody walked into my officethe other day.
This has been about a month ago.
I hope he didn't hear this.
I'm not going to mention thename here.
Somebody walked into my officethe other day.
This has been about a month ago.
I hope he didn't hear this.
(32:15):
I'm not going to tell you wherehe'd tell you.
He said see, I want to buy someproperty.
I hadn't seen the man in two orthree years.
I want to buy some property, Iwant you to help me.
And I said where is it?
And it's a well known street.
I guess they were.
And we closed it in about sixweeks because the timing was
(32:36):
right.
Yeah, it was just right.
Right, things just fell intoplace.
But the thing about it was hesaid you know what?
You've shown me so many yearsproperly, I never bought a thing
.
I said, yeah, you're right, younever bought a thing.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Price per hour is pretty low.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
But he said you always took care of me.
You always.
You know you never want to makepeople feel or think, even if
when you're young and you'rereally struggling, you leave.
You think, god, I gotta getthis deal.
I, you know I can't make my carpayment, whatever.
Yeah, you never show it.
You go in the alley.
When you finish it and you holdyour gun you say, oh my God, I
(33:14):
needed that deal.
But you never show that youneed the deal.
Never make it about you, it'sabout them.
If you think that way, if youthink about helping this person
get what they want, the moneywill come.
(33:35):
That just equates with themoney.
You know you're in athleticsand you play basketball
basketball season right now,yeah, and you don't think about
I've got to make this bucket.
You know I've just got to gotto, got to make it.
If you just I'm playing for theteam and I'm going to make it,
(33:57):
you go.
If you study it too hard,you're your own worst enemy.
Just do it and think about theperson you're trying to help,
listen to them and you forgetabout yourself.
You can worry about yoursituation when you go home that
night, yeah, and when you walkout the door in the morning,
(34:18):
whether things are reallybeautiful and rosy or maybe it
looks cloudy, whatever it is itcan be both, whatever it could
be, both, whatever it is.
You put it as you guys.
Sometimes it takes some uh,self-control, chutzpah.
If you know what that is,chutzpah is a Hebrew word.
Chutzpah means you've got guts,you put it together, you've got
(34:43):
to do what you've got to do.
I've got to suture this up andtake care of my day.
I'll deal with my home tomorrownight tonight Hopefully it's
not tomorrow night, it's tonightI'm going to deal.
You know you got to do whenyou're professional.
If you were a professionalsinger, dancer, whatever it's
(35:03):
showtime, curtain time you goout and it's people bought
tickets, it's showtime, nomatter what your problem is,
yeah, we'll deal with it.
When it's when you're off thestage, yeah, yeah, I mean it's
steve's three w's work when andwhere is what?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I equate that to working hard to put yourself in
the right situation whensomething arises, when the
person comes, knocks on yourdoor that you haven't seen in
two to three years because youput yourself in that position.
I think it's such a commondenominator of success of the
guests that we've had on thispodcast and the think how can I
(35:43):
help the person in front of me?
Not necessarily like I win bymaking you win that's such a
common denominator of success.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
We've heard that time and time again from people
we've had on the show.
They're like if you lift theclient up, like you're going to
be successful.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
You know all you guys and I've known Brian a while,
but I just you're recentlyacquainted.
Yeah, all you guys have it.
I can tell you, do you do?
I appreciate that I'm usuallyright on my people, not always.
I'll make, not always.
Don't make me an exception.
I want to expand a little biton your question.
(36:17):
There is opportunity andthere's challenges.
They are not the same in mymind.
A challenge I look at achallenge as I need to get my
systems down where they flow.
So when I see an opportunity,I'm prepared, my systems are in
(36:44):
place to chase the opportunity.
They're not the same.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (36:51):
That's really good.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
So an opportunity arises and I'm scattered and I'm
not organized and I don't knowwhat I'm doing.
I'm not prepared to besuccessful and competitive in
chasing that.
But if I'm organized andeverything you know, I know
where my bullets are.
Not real life here.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
I know where my ammo is.
I'm prepared to chase thatopportunity.
And opportunity meanspossibilities.
It doesn't mean success, itdoesn't mean failure, it means
neither.
It just means to be decided.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Correct me if I'm wrong.
So what I'm hearing from whatyou're saying is potentially
that could mean passing a smell.
Test for a potential client isgoing A, we interviewed this guy
.
Test for a potential client isgoing hey, we interviewed this
guy.
And if you don't know whatyou're talking about, have
certain systems in place, havecertain processes in place.
That client's going to besomeone you could never chase
after because they know I mean,people in our industry can smell
(37:52):
BS from a mile away and if youdon't have that foundation laid
of what you're talking about,those systems processes it even
just being able to bs your waythrough a conversation here and
there.
They can, they can smell if youare doing that.
So having the foundation ofknowing your stuff and having
that set so that you can't, isthat am I hearing that correctly
(38:14):
?
Speaker 4 (38:14):
yeah, I think um, uh, if I, if I see an opportunity
in a sector which I haven'tworked in a while okay, medical,
I've not done anything medicalin quite a while okay, I'm not
really.
My systems are not in place, Ireally can't discuss it
intelligently.
I mean, I know there's a lot ofplumbing needs, I know there's
(38:36):
parking, I know fundamentals,but I'm not sure where the
market is and maybe thatneighborhood.
So I need to go do someresearch before I open my mouth.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
So I'm prepared and you know, to sell that.
Let's say, someone comes to youand they're like Steve, I need
to buy this big commercialhospital or something like that.
You go, you feel confident tosay, hey, let me me do some
research all the time, yeah, allthe time.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
I.
That actually happenedyesterday, uh, uh, in tiny town,
so I was asking me about it andI'm not, you're not.
I'm especially like I need todo.
Let me get back with you.
I'm not, I don't want to, Idon't want to walk something
back.
Give me a couple of days, I'llcall you back and we'll discuss
this further.
Okay, and they respect that.
Yeah, people just shoot offyour mouth.
(39:26):
I mean yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
I think that's important too, for not only for
the brokerage business but forinvestors and investors.
Listening is to be able to havethe bullets in the gun and have
the preparation of.
You know, brian, I think Ithink Brian's talked a little
bit about in past podcasts Like,I mean, how many deals before
you bought your first biggerdeal, how many deals do you
think you passed out, you passedup or or analyzed?
(39:50):
I mean maybe 50 hundreds.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Yeah, I mean it's changed the market.
I mean now it's like underwritea hundred deals and do one.
Before it might have been 50deals and do one or 20.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
So it's all about?
I think a lot of it like whatyou're saying is having the
bullets in the gun to not onlyunderstand as an investor to
understand what you're lookingto get into but also, even with
the other arms of it,understanding the debt and how
to get the debt and who thepartners of getting the debt
looks like.
It's just who those partners ofgetting the debt looks like.
It's just who those partnersneed to be, who those partners
(40:24):
need to be to help you with itThings like that.
I think that's got to be animportant thing for you and
clients that you work with right.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Yeah, it is.
You know beautiful high-risebuildings.
It really comes down to people.
I mean, it's all about peace.
I had a phone, I don't know.
I can't seem to turn it off.
I've done everything.
I noticed I need to step on it.
Relationships, and you knowthis industry, the variation.
(41:01):
Forget the industry.
Just take a broker, just thatpiece of an industry.
There's construction, there'sfinance, there's all these
different appraisers, surveyors,title companies.
There's so many differentaspects, but just what I'm in
broker, just being a broker, thethings you touch, from finance
(41:22):
to marketing to management,management of people, managing
your systems, keeping up withrates up and down, what's the
influence on them?
Infrastructure is our.
That's our to me.
I think if there's a cap, Idon't mean a cap rate, I mean a
(41:43):
cap on success.
Here.
Now, long term isinfrastructure.
We're almost a victim of ourown success.
Yeah, we've had so much success.
We're all doing the capacity ofdevelopment.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
Well, that affects what it affects sellers, it
affects brokers, it affectsbuyers, it affects construction
people.
Yeah, buyers, it affectsconstruction people.
Yeah, title companies,insurance people.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
It affects the whole chain.
I think that's something we'veheard, with one with Tom Allen
and then one with Mayor DougSprouse when we had him Was that
was a common thing that theywere thinking about a lot.
You know, of course, tom's nota mayor, but he's in a lot of
the stuff, he almost is.
Speaker 4 (42:24):
He almost is Mayor Tom.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Mayor Tom.
But they're thinking a lotabout the infrastructure and
they're going.
What's this?
We know the data and the datashows we're going, we're
continuing.
We have 40-some-odd familiesthat move here a day.
They're thinking about that alot and so I think it's a great
point.
You brought that up andlistener, listening like the
people over some decision makingstuff here are thinking about
(42:50):
the infrastructure.
I guess I'm more so talking tothe listener right now, and so I
think you're correct.
We almost are a victim of ourown success and I think the
local people feel it.
You feel a little bit morecongested in traffic.
You know, going out toCenterton, coming in at 5
o'clock, just absolutely sucks.
Like there's some roads gettingto the interstate right now.
That, and I would 100% agreewith you, but more so.
(43:12):
I wanted to make a point to alistener.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
Right there there's a lot of impedance in deals right
now, particularly with landdeals, because you buy it, you
got to sit on it for we don'tknow how long.
If it's a loan, you're payinginterest on it.
If it's cash, you paid for it.
It's money sitting theresleeping.
It's not working.
It could be in a bank account,it could be in a crypto, it
(43:37):
could be in anything, hopefullyearning money.
You just lay, laying there flat.
So infrastructure affects everysingle person.
I don't care who you are, Idon't care where you are on the
table.
You will be affected adversely.
If it's not solved, we'll seewhat happens.
(43:58):
It's all about money and timingand even if you have the money
today, just getting it done withenvironmental issues,
construction issues, just a lot.
So this has been really fun andinteresting.
I don't know if I've talked toomuch.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
I think it be good for us to go over some some of
the skyline report too.
Um, just, we have a lot ofpeople from across the country,
honestly, that listen becausethere's a lot of eyeballs in
northwest arkansas and so givingthem a little bit of a
breakdown of what we're seeingin the skyline report listener,
if you're listening, or you'relistening, so you're hearing
this.
The Skyline report is a localreport that goes over commercial
(44:43):
residential numbers for 2024.
And I think it'd be good tojust do a quick little recap of
this.
Maybe not to what, let's spendlike five, six minutes on this
and then we have some funquestions and out to show, but I
think it's been great.
Brian, could you start us offwith some some of the stuff?
Let's just we'll kind of be alittle fact spitting off here
about Northwest Arkansas market.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yeah, and I've got the commercial.
I got the highlights from thesecond half of 2024.
Commercial highlights,multifamily highlights obviously
that's my niche, that I'vechosen multifamily.
And the market vacancy forNorthwest Arkansas remained at
3.3%.
(45:24):
That's really good.
That's really people you knowlocally.
People have this kind of fearof they see cranes in the sky,
they see more developmentshappening but despite all the
development, there is just somuch population growth and such
a need for these new apartmentsthat they're able to absorb this
supply.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
And for national reference too.
What do you think nationalvacancy rates look like right
now?
Maybe 8%?
Speaker 2 (45:52):
to 10%.
Yeah, you better be Ifsomeone's not.
Usually I would say if you'rebuying an A-class deal, you
should underwrite for a 5%vacancy and then you probably
should underwrite for another 5%of concessions.
Bad debt A-class not so muchbad debt, but usually around 10%
total economic vacancy turnoverbut you can't underwrite that.
(46:16):
In Northwest Arkansas I thought, which was really crazy is
Springdale.
The vacancy rate decreased to1.9 percent.
So well, being below twopercent is unheard of, I think,
in any kind of sub-market.
So obviously that points to aneed for more housing in
Springdale particularly.
Um Bentonville decreased tofour percent.
(46:39):
So that actually wasBentonville increased to 4.5%
and even 5% because of newdevelopment, but it's gone back
down.
So I think you'll have thesekind of ebbs and flows.
Rogers was decreased to 5.3,but they were up to they.
They went all the way up to6.9% in the second half of 2024.
(46:59):
So they dropped, dropped to 5.3.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
So almost seeing like a little uptick when stuff gets
built.
It's like boom and then kind ofthe field evens out and then it
comes back down to catching up.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Yeah, it's interesting to see the
absorption rates of how quicklythings are getting.
I mean multifamily gets filledup right.
Speaker 4 (47:20):
Yeah, I would mention to those numbers.
You look at what's driving that.
Those are numbers, those arevalid numbers and in my mind
there's several things that aredriving that.
They're all pretty obvious.
So I'm not saying that everyonehere at the table doesn't see
that.
But you have in migration atthe table doesn't see that
(47:41):
Dollar.
You have in-migration.
At the same point in time youhave inflation, make it very
difficult to finance a home.
At the same time you have thecost of goods, of lumber, of
materials, going at inflation,making it difficult to buy.
You have all those restrictionson development excuse me, on
(48:05):
buying a home.
Yet at the same time,simultaneously, you have this
in-migration, which we want.
So you got flows of peoplecoming in and it's so expensive
to buy a home because of all thethings that are maybe not so
localized.
The inflation is not local, thecost of goods and services is
(48:28):
not local.
Now the restrictions locally,with all the city restrictions.
That adds to developmentchallenges.
But all that going on, theconvergence of all those events
at the same time, this wave ofpeople coming in.
Where can they go butapartments?
It's economically the onlything they can do.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (48:54):
Nothing lasts forever .
I can tell you that you hearthe music and you're on the
dance floor, yeah, and ratesfall.
Yeah, okay, and we have a, afall and everything stops and,
uh, all of a sudden, everything,prices start falling, which is
not a good thing.
(49:14):
Yeah, yeah, okay, and all thoseprojections I've been through
it.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
I don't want it to go .
Speaker 4 (49:22):
I have to have my beautiful projections, yeah
exactly, Exactly, and you madeyour plan among all those things
that are going on at the sametime and the lights switched.
The music stopped and you're onthe dance floor.
The lights turn on.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
The lights turn on.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
Steve, I'd love to hear your thoughts on, as a real
estate investor, if that'sgoing to be let's say that's
going to be 100% of yourportfolio and what you believe
in.
How do you avoid the ebbs andflows of good times and bad
times?
Speaker 4 (49:56):
That's a real good question.
If you stayed in real estate,okay.
Well, there's things you can do.
You can diversify into sectors,you can diversify into
geography, not just going intoone area of the country.
That's good, because there'sdifferent dynamics and different
ones.
I think sectors and geographyand timing are all variables
(50:29):
that you could do if you're justgoing to do real estate, if you
put all your eggs in one basket, like I did in Oklahoma City.
It was mass vacancies there.
It was called U-Haul-haul cityliterally because the parking
lots and apartment buildings andwe would give a one month free
rent, two months free rent atthe front yeah when they burn
(50:49):
that off, they're gone, theu-haul's gone.
Yeah, living for free, baby,yeah, and we keep repainting
them, redoing them.
We think the walls are gettingsmaller because they've got so
much paint 30 layers deep.
Yeah, it's a foot deep now.
It used to be a 1,000-footapartment, now it's 850.
(51:11):
That's good.
It's just the environmentchanges.
It's so fluid.
When you're successful, it'snot all about you, and when you
don't make it, it's not allabout you either.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (51:25):
That's good, it's the truth.
It's the truth, and Brian isvery familiar with multifamily
here and it does a really greatjob.
When you look at all thesesectors, we don't have a strong
inventory over an abundance ofany inventory right now here.
Yeah, that's a great point.
(51:45):
Every single one of them is inshort supply.
That's an enigma that will notlast.
It's a photograph in time.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
Yeah, absolutely Reading the office vacancy rate
decrease to 6.3, just evendecreasing is now something you
hear nationally, like northwestarkansas.
Being under 10 is wild to sayfor office, and even decreasing
is is also talking about wherebeing in the right market for
that.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
It's uh yeah, I love that.
We I think I think we talkabout this often like you know,
austin now is hitting.
You know, you see in theheadlines, like Austin,
apartments vacancies are goingup a ton and single-family homes
are dropping 20%, 38%, andpeople are freaking out.
But I think at some pointNorthwest Arkansas has to hit.
(52:35):
That it will, because we I meanit's inevitable, right, austin
has obviously had this awesomecome up and this rise and then
eventually it flattens out andmaybe migration isn't as much as
it was before, or maybe it'sfinally supply has caught up to
demand and maybe people go,austin's going to crap, but,
(52:58):
like Austin, coming from here tohere is still pretty good,
right, exactly.
Speaker 4 (53:02):
Exactly yeah.
It became almost a victim ofthe sales success.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (53:07):
Yeah, and Florida's had highs and lows.
I mean Florida's a non-taxstate, no tax.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
Yeah, and insurance?
Speaker 4 (53:16):
Yeah, but I think if you spread your capital and your
deals into various sectors andvarious areas of growth cities
that are growing, look at thosenumbers.
What's driving the numbers?
You know, when somebody asksyou for a vacancy report, no,
(53:44):
take that back.
They want to see comps.
They want to see comps and yougive them paper and here the
comp is the rates per foot are Xand over here they're Y.
Just looking at the paperdoesn't tell you what's driving
that.
You've got to go out and see whyis it different here than there
(54:08):
, within a block or two away?
Probably some topographychanges, some demographic
changes, some flood issues.
The numbers are driven bysomething and just the numbers.
Just email All the numbers, thecops, something and just the
numbers you email.
I'll email you the numbers, thecops, if they don't go out
there and look.
You send emails to Los Angeles.
You send cops, I'll send youthe cops.
(54:29):
They're not here to look at theproperty so they see the
differentiation of range, butthey don't really know.
You gotta go out and put yourfoot on the ground.
You gotta see it why.
There's a reason why this homesold for this and that one with
the same footage sold fordefinitely a block away.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah, Like well, this one's right across from the new
Walmart headquarters and thisone's half a mile they change
tires and oil the place.
Speaker 4 (55:00):
Yeah, there's things driving those numbers, but in
our sector, every single sectoris not an abundant supply.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
That's a great point.
Speaker 4 (55:14):
Not one, not one that's in a problem.
So you could put some warehousedeals together Multi-family,
single family, whatever.
Yeah, it's across the board.
Across the board.
I think about buying in frontof what.
(55:36):
You perceive that, where thefreight train's coming, where
the lights are okay, like theairport, yeah, yep, yep, there's
a freight train coming there.
There's some sewer issues there, there's some things worked out
, but long term, there's afreight train there.
If you're patient, you wait,you gotta wait.
Uh, I have to sit for a while.
(55:56):
Yeah, you know.
And if you say are, are you apatient?
You have patient money?
No, I'm in a hurry.
Well, the airport's probablynot for you.
Just put that aside.
Yeah, just put that aside.
I want to buy something andflip it.
Don't go there.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
Yeah, not the airport .
That's a great point.
I think what you talked a lotis like knowing your client,
what they're looking for, whattheir needs are, and something I
feel that I've heard you say isyou listen really well and you
listen to what the needs of thebuyer and the seller are and you
take a step back and youbreathe and you go.
What's a win-win for the sellerand the buyer here?
(56:32):
And how can I converge both ofthose together and that's what
makes a real win.
Speaker 4 (56:39):
Yeah, yeah, some of it's family issues.
If it win, yeah, some of it'sfamily issues if it's a family,
some of it's corporate issues,tax issues, some people, some
things.
Sometimes they've got cash theyneed to place.
It's doing nothing.
That's a situation.
Yeah, I love hearing thatsituation.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
We got a hole in my pocket.
You mean you?
Speaker 4 (57:00):
don't need financing.
Love it situation, love it.
Yeah, yeah, years ago I waswith this guy showing a
warehouse and I didn't know whohe was and he drove up in an old
truck and he did.
He looked like saying somewhatragged, and he didn't say very
much.
I walk him around a 40, 40thousand square foot or
something building like that, hedidn't say very much.
I walked him around a 40,000square foot or something
(57:21):
building like that.
He didn't say hardly anything.
So finally I said do you like?
Because it was just silent,just looking.
He just kept looking.
I said do you like what you see?
He nods his head, yeah.
I said well, are you ready tomake an offer?
He says yeah, I think so.
I said where do you bank Arvest?
(57:43):
I said follow me, that's allyou need to know.
Case closed.
Speaker 1 (57:52):
Oh my gosh, that's so good.
Let's wrap it up with this.
I think I'd like.
Maybe listeners like no, whatdoes the next five, ten years
look like for you?
Uh, as you know, you're, you're.
You've of course made such agreat, great name brand.
You bring yourself great withthe feinberg grain and what,
(58:13):
what did you?
What do you envision foryourself over the next five, ten
years, and and what do you seethe commercial market doing in
the next five to ten years?
Speaker 4 (58:23):
Well, let's talk about the market first.
Yeah, this market short term isgoing to have some bumps due to
the infrastructure.
I don't know how you cannot.
I mean you can't fix thosethings with the flip of a light
switch, correct, I mean youcan't fix those things with the
(58:43):
flip of a light switch.
But long term, it's positioningin the United States
geographically the talent here,the educational schools here and
they're becoming better, Ithink.
I think there's things beingdone to improve education.
Our low crime rate, ourseasonality here are all
(59:06):
conducive for a really in ourminds here.
This is an area of a lot ofinnovation, yeah, technological
innovation way beyond what we'rethinking today.
So this is going to be along-term good play.
Yeah, I wouldn't necessarilyput all my base in one basket,
(59:28):
but you're gonna pick a place.
This is a horse you bet on.
Yeah, yeah, you really do, yeah.
And and I say that everymedical, like our medical, is
growing here.
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh mygosh.
That's going to be an industryby itself.
How can you forget retail here?
My gosh, largest retailer inthe world.
But medical is becoming its own, you know its own entity, its
(59:57):
own being Just that.
All the support for that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
And home construction , road construction.
I mean everything here.
This is the new frontier and alot of young people moving in
here.
I think that's a great thing.
Yeah, this is not a seniorcitizen's.
I shouldn't say that because ofmy age.
Yeah, 100%.
(01:00:29):
And for myself.
My runway is getting shorter,so I've talked to my wife about
what the future is.
But I love working.
I've got a really great team ofpeople.
Some have been with me 10, 11years, 12 years, so I really
(01:00:53):
like that.
I like the camaraderie, thegive and take, the
differentiation and ideas thatwe bounce off and always not
agree.
We agree to disagree and moveon.
I love marketing.
I love to market.
(01:01:14):
I think that's kind of fun.
I like to be in front of peopletrying to put two opposite ends
of the deal together.
Yeah, I like doing that.
I think that's fun.
Yeah, so as far as I know, I'mgoing to stay on the dance floor
if I stay healthy.
Yeah, keep dancing, keepdancing.
Yeah, as far as I know.
Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
Yeah, steve, I'll call you if it changes, yeah,
Can you tell the personlistening how they can reach out
to you if they're looking forsomething in the commercial
world, or just how to contactyour company?
Oh, gladly, yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:01:49):
How many times do you want me to repeat that?
Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
You can repeat it as many times as you want.
They can pause on this Okay.
Speaker 4 (01:01:53):
Well, my personal cell number is 479-409-4756.
The office number and we havesome beautiful I mean in the way
in which they answer the phonebeautiful receptionists, and
that's 479-271-4161.
(01:02:15):
And they will be glad to takeyour call.
They will listen and direct youto who they feel will be most
apt to help you.
It could be me, it could beanother agent.
If they're not sure, they'llprobably give it to me and I'll
decide whether I should do thator bring in another agent.
I work a lot of deals togetherwith my agents.
(01:02:38):
I love working with them.
I work a lot of deals togetherwith my agents.
I love working with them.
And then our email address issteve at arkrealestate, and
that's one word arkrealestate.
For those of you out of state,ark was the old abbreviation for
Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
Alaska.
It's arkreal Real Estate.
Ark Real Estatecom.
Maybe this has been really fun.
Yeah, it's been great.
I so much appreciate it, Brian.
I'm being invited.
Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
I really did.
We'll bring you back again.
I'd love to come back.
It's fun.
Speaker 4 (01:03:13):
I have more fun than I thought.
Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
I've never done this before you had so many great
nuggets, Steve, Steve, one ofthe last nuggets I want to
reiterate because I really likethis quote.
I thought it'd be good forinvestors or anybody listening.
But success what you said wassuccess is a combination of work
ethic, location, timing andthen a little bit of luck.
So we appreciate your nuggetsthat you brought today.
Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
Yeah, for sure.
Thank you, it really is.
It's the mix, it's not any onething.
It's never just you, it's not.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
If you fish in waters wherethere's no fish, I don't care
how good a fisherman you are,there's no fish.
Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Thank you, guys for listening.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Thanks guys, thank you.
If you enjoyed the show.
Make sure to give us a followon your favorite podcast
platform so you never miss anupdate.
Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Don't forget to connect with us on Instagram,
facebook and LinkedIn for morereal estate insights and behind
the scenes content.
Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Have a question you want us to cover, send it our
way, and if you're interested insponsoring the show, visit
nwainvestingcom to get in touch.
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next time.
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