June 11, 2025 • 30 mins
Real estate investors who want to scale beyond single-family homes need a strategic roadmap, and Brian Wagers delivers exactly that in this value-packed episode. With partnerships spanning over 6,000 multifamily units and personal ownership of 650 doors throughout Northwest Arkansas, Brian breaks down the deals that transformed his investment career.
The conversation centers around two transformative deals: a 22-unit C-minus/D-plus property in Springdale acquired for $750,000, and a ground-up redevelopment in Fort Smith that's breathing new life into a long-abandoned site. What makes these stories compelling isn't just the seven-figure exits, but the innovative financing approaches and rapid execution that made them possible.
Unlike many who focus solely on cash flow, Brian reveals his strategy of leveraging properties to build significant equity—even when it meant operating at 100% leverage and reinvesting personal income to keep projects moving forward. His willingness to take calculated risks on distressed properties that others avoided created opportunities for substantial appreciation and portfolio growth.
Perhaps most valuable is Brian's candid discussion of the challenges he faced: from managing extensive renovations ($500,000+ in capital expenditures) to navigating properties with severe deferred maintenance and dealing with reluctant traditional investors. His solution? Creative seller-financing arrangements, hyper-fast closing timelines (under 60 days), and building a reputation for execution that opened doors to increasingly larger opportunities.
Whether you're just starting your real estate journey or looking to scale your existing portfolio, this episode offers a masterclass in multifamily investment strategy. Reach out directly to Brian at brian@wagerscapital.com with questions about his approach or to discuss your own investment goals in the rapidly growing Northwest Arkansas market.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Northwest Arkansas Investing Podcast, your
go-to source for real estateinvesting in Northwest Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
With your seasoned investor just starting out.
We bring you expert insights,market trends and practical
strategies to help you buildwealth through real estate.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
From buying and selling to property management
and long-term investmentplanning.
We cover it all so you can makesmart, informed decision in
this fast-growing market.
Let's dive in.
All right, welcome back toNorthwest Arkansas Investing
Podcast.
I'm Brandon.
Still I'm here with Mr BrianWagers what's up, what's up, and
we're going to talk a littlebit about a deal deep dive here
(00:41):
and we're going to let Briankind of get into a few deals
that he's done over his time.
And, uh, he's done a lot ofdeals.
Partner in what?
6,000 units or more, yeah, um,part, yeah.
I have background on you.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, sure, yeah, been a partner on over 5,000
deal or 5,000 units GP.
I've invested as a limitedpartner in about 2000 deals.
Um have been the only partneron about 650 doors in Northwest
Arkansas and around the area, um, mostly small to medium sized
(01:15):
multifamily.
Um, more recently somedevelopment deals have have
looked at partnering withdevelopers, have, uh, bought
from developers, have boughtfrom developers at the previous
firm as a general partner.
So, multifamily, I did allmultifamily.
(01:35):
I have a 380 unit storage unitin Oklahoma and I have a
commercial strip, kind of acommercial strip mall not strip
mall but strip center just southof Fort Smith.
But other than that, well,first ever deal was just a
single family and then fromthere it was done with single
(01:58):
family.
The next deal was a 12 unit andthen, well, the most recent
deal is, yeah, 154 unit.
And then most recent deals,yeah, 154 unit.
That was a general partner onputting together 200 unit town
or 200 unit in Springdale andlooking at another 200 unit plus
in Fayetteville.
Love it.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah.
So Brian obviously brings awealth of knowledge and again
started out with single family,which is awesome, and, I think,
quickly realized that can'treally scale and build the kind
of the life and career that hewants with just that.
And so, brian, go ahead and getus into that first deal that
you want to talk about and, uh,I'd love to hear kind of how it
(02:38):
came about, how you financed itwhat it looked like, uh, kind of
throughout the process, and ifit's one that you actually did,
what that actually looks like,yeah, I'll.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I'll go through an exit request first.
So this would be, um, my thirddeal.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Um, so, you went single family 12 unit and then
this is your third deal.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, yeah, single family 12 unit.
Um, no, I'm sorry, this is myfifth deal.
So, single family 12 unit.
My deal after that 12 unit wasa 20 unit seller finance deal
that I, like, broke even on.
That's not one.
(03:20):
We're going to talk about one,we're going to talk about hello.
And next deal, that was a 12unit.
Um, and these deals I'm, I'mthe, I'm the owner operator, I'm
finding the deal.
I'm putting together insurance,managing the property
management, managing theconstruct.
These were like this when Ifirst got started.
Like 2017, these were like deepvalue.
I started like now I'm doingdevelopment, I buy an a class,
(03:41):
but in the beginning it was wasthis c class, c class, workforce
, workforce housing.
I'm buying from mom and popguys that have they let the
property falling apart bothphysically and operationally.
So that's how I got my teethdirty.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
So tell us kind of how you found the deal in the
first place.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, so this was one , two, three, four, five, six
deal and this was a 22 unit inSpringdale, springdale, arkansas
.
I did a lot of deals inSpringdale.
Actually, up to that point thiswould make my portfolio about a
hundred units and they were allon Springdale on deal number
six, including that singlefamily.
My first residence was CaveSprings, so this was 22 units.
(04:26):
A broker sent it to me so I hadbuilt up a relationship, we had
done a deal before this 52units and we partnered on it and
it went really well.
They actually ended uppartnering with me on it.
So they were representing theseller, um, and knew I could,
(04:47):
you know, close, send it to meas a quote.
Unquote pocket listing.
So, um, they knew all I wasfocused on was multifamily.
They knew I had done.
Some other in Springdale umseller may or may not want it
listed wanted to see what thisprice was.
So this was 22 units um twobuildings or three buildings and
(05:08):
springdale, not too far fromemma, um a lot of deferred
maintenance, like the wall, likethe, the siding was falling off
the, the driveway was gravelwith like kind of holes in it.
Would you argue that it wasmaybe even D-class?
I would, yeah, I would say thisone there's been worse that
I've had from this Exterior wasjust rough, like they didn't put
(05:31):
anything into the exterior,like tenants weren't too bad.
That third deal, that 20, thatwas probably D-class.
This was probably C-minusD-plus maybe.
So they sent it to me.
It was around uh, what was it?
750 000.
(05:51):
Yeah, okay, um, was thepurchase price on this one?
Okay.
And at the time I just had like,uh, two investors okay, and one
investor was I'm not touchingthat with a hundred foot pole
yeah, he saw it and he was like,nah, was this a friend or no?
This was my father-in-law, okay, well, actually this was my
(06:13):
girlfriend's dad at the time,this was Jen's dad.
And first, one of my firstdeals.
We did like a promissory notewhere I just agreed to pay him
back like 10% his note back plus10%.
And then after that I did acouple of seller finance deals
and he saw what I was doing onthe seller finance deals and I
(06:35):
was kind of sending them.
These deals, like these otherdeals, didn't do any.
And again here he said no andso I knew I had to go seller
finance.
So I asked if they would bewilling to keep a portion of the
note in the deal and I wouldget some financing for the
construction and the otherportion and I would pay him back
(07:01):
.
I agreed to do like a threeyear note or yeah, it was a
three or five year note.
I'd pay him back $500 a monthand I would give him 5% interest
on his note.
So he had this is yourfather-in-law, no, this is the
seller.
Father-in-law said hey, I'm nottouching that with a hundred
foot pole.
That needs does not look good.
It's like it's pull it up forthe.
(07:27):
That's something we need to dofor the Spotify.
It's like we have to pull uppictures of it.
But yeah, he was like I don'twant any part of it.
It needs like just as much inCapEx.
I think we put five.
I put like over 500,000 inCapEx.
Oh wow, I put like over 500,000in CapEx.
Oh wow, new roofs, new windows,new parking lot, new deck tore
(07:52):
out the old deck, like the deck,like stairway to the second
floor was falling apart.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Um, like fully renovated some interior units
and so that CapEx was uh, wasthat bank financed, or was that,
yeah, bank financed it?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Bank financed it.
I put up a little bit of my.
I put up some of my own capital.
I put like 25, you know it wasit was very minimal to to
complete out the CapEx, but theywere lending that the CapEx and
the seller kept the downpayment and the deal.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Okay, so he financed the down payment for you.
You financed the CapEx througha local bank.
Yeah, right, so I was in this100%.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I've talked about it before.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I'm like 100% leverage and then maybe there
was a little bit of an extra gapof CapEx that you came out of
pocket.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Oh, I was coming out like Jen's, like I thought we
were buying cash flowing assetsand I'm putting like $10,000 a
year, $5,000 a year because Ihad no reserves or anything for
like budget, because it was alllike I used all of it for like
help with the down payment.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
But it was a great deal, like the potential Um and
did you, did you really?
I mean, the play had to havebeen okay, get this renovated,
get the CapEx into it and thenmaybe stabilize it and then sell
it Right.
Was it or was it ever to tokeep long?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
No, I, I needed to start building snowballing that
equity.
I can't.
You know, if I wanted to dothat, I probably would have
stayed in single family and onehouse a year and had 10 houses
at 10 years right now.
That would been the route to goyeah but I knew I had to like
get in and out and grow it, uh,and put it into the next deal.
Yeah, that's good.
(09:30):
Um, you know I was cashing it.
It turned out really nice, didreally well, like that was my
like.
I self GC'd this.
I got the roofer, I got thewindow guy, I got the parking
lot guy, I got the interior guy.
So it was really goodexperience doing that too.
You know, it was a little, like, you know, scary.
I was never scared, my fiance.
(09:50):
I don't know, she was not myfiance at the time but this
became part of a largerportfolio of seller finance deal
that I ended up piecing off.
I put together about a hundred.
So I ended up buying anothereight unit, another 20 unit or
so and I pieced them togetherand I sold them as a portfolio
(10:10):
for like a larger buyer.
That was close.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
That's awesome.
So tell me, uh, so tell me,from from getting the deal from
the broker, how long did it takeyou to close, and then from
there, how long did it take youto get CapEx, get everything
done, and then maybe evenstabilize.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
From there I moved fast, man.
I knew like speed was going tobe my advantage in the market,
like speed and like executionwas like what I was going to be
known for and what I could likebring to the table.
So we got to close that Like wenegotiated very quickly.
I didn't take long to puttogether the offer.
You know, I think I closed inless than 60 days or so.
(10:49):
You know, um, maybe not, maybeit was around 60, less than 60.
I think 60 days was likeclosings are longer and longer
right now, so, but I think 60days was more the standard.
That's a whole notherconversation Like closings take
longer, a lot more work.
But it was around 60 days.
Capex was starting to meet.
Like I was getting quotesbecause, you know, as I was
(11:10):
negotiating, I was gettingquotes like from these different
you know specialty guys.
My father-in-law, I let himpaint.
He has a painting company, so Ilet him paint.
I'd say I let him because hedidn't invest with me.
But I'm getting bids as I'mdoing this negotiation.
So I was able to start capping.
(11:32):
The roofers were the day weclosed.
They were onsite On the top.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
So we had that all lined up right away.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
And that was yeah.
A full cap X period was what?
A month or two months?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, it was very yeah, Three months on the
exterior.
Yeah, because we did the roofs,then we did the windows, then
we did the roofs, then we didthe windows, then we did the
decking, that we did the parkinglot around the same time too,
and then interior units werebeing turned during this time
(12:07):
and then some of the interiorunits kind of staggered up like
people were still living in themand paying in them.
So we're not going to renovateit until they move out.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Yeah, that's an interesting point, though.
Just going back to what yousaid on kind of snowballing that
equity, I think a lot of times,at least smaller investors are
only thinking about cashflow andhow I can build the 10K a month
, 20k a month of cashflow ormore or whatever.
But for you I mean I thinkthere are, or anybody out there
I think there are deals outthere where maybe that makes
(12:39):
sense, but a lot of deals outthere, especially in Northwest
Arkansas there's a lot of meaton the bone to be able to,
especially if you're experiencedto be able to add value and get
a return off of that sale.
And then maybe, you know, gopress for a cash flow deal.
Is that kind of the way thatyou see it?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, it, and then maybe you know, go press for a
cashflow deal.
Is that kind of the way thatyou see it?
Yeah, it's funny because you,we I think one of our later
episodes we're going to be doinga deep dive on cashflow and
appreciation but where theinvesting pod, you can't talk
about that, not talk about thatlike a little bit in every
podcast.
But yeah, I was, that was allappreciation, that was not
cashflow at all and that waslike you know.
But I believe I never wavered.
(13:17):
You know, I said like I hadsome people around me like kind
of like question what I wasdoing.
But uh, I was, like you know,funneling my income into this,
into the, and I was growing itat the same time with these
other seller finance deals.
You know that that that 22 unitwas the first one, but then it
was uh, but then I got it up toabout 100 units.
(13:40):
I had, with no investors orpartners bringing on investment,
my father, all my neighbors, myfriends of friends now my
(14:01):
neighbor's friends and myfather-in-law's friends.
That was going on as I wasbuilding this portfolio.
Someone wouldn't do a sellerfinancing deal.
That at the time it was kind ofout of necessity.
I needed them to do a sellerfinance deal because I didn't
really know where my equity wascoming from.
But at first I was doing theseseller financing deals and I was
(14:23):
putting them in front of mygirlfriend's dad and then
started talking to other peoplebut he was telling me, no, no,
no.
But at the same time I wasstill talking to other people
and building it up.
So I then started to do where Iwas the operator and they were
the investor so bought somemedium size multifamily that way
(14:44):
82 unit, a couple of hundredunits of that kind of size, and
then piece together that justunder a hundred unit portfolio
of mine.
And then so I sold that in 2022or so.
Most of that yeah, that my likemy portfolio of a hundred
percent owned was around that 22and had a big Nice yeah, it was
(15:12):
.
That was my first, first sevenfigure check.
It was pretty sweet, amazing.
I kept it and I had noinvestors and no partners and I
called the bank that financedthat hell out of that, that
first deal, and the seller waslike 20% and the seller actually
was really nice to me thiswhole time and the seller
actually was really nice to methis whole time.
(15:33):
They're like man, I hear whatyou're doing out there.
Because they were like, thebroker trusts me a lot.
He copied me in with the sellerand we were talking too.
That's awesome.
But, you know, called andthanked the bank for like
trusting me to do that.
Do that first deal or not firstdeal, but that leverage deal.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
That's life changing man, and I think the important
thing that you mentioned thereis that you obviously the
relationship, but you have thetrack record that you started to
build, that kind of led youpast this into where you had,
(16:19):
you know, neighbors andfather-in-law and other people
wanting to join in on your deals.
You got to build that momentum.
I think it's super important,especially if you want to scale.
And then the last one, too,that I thought was pretty
interesting that you mentioned.
I think this is very important.
Your job was probably a hugefactor in being able to help you
carry this into the good cashout.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, yeah, commission-based sale.
At the time I was able to showreally good income and a steady
stream of income, a lot ofcommission, so that helps the
bank get comfortable too, and Ihad income to put back into the
projects too.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah man, that's awesome, give me one more.
We've got about four or fiveminutes if you want.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, so pivoting more past.
So after those, as some of youguys know, I was a general
partner on a lot of syndicateddeals where we're buying 100
units to 300 units Texas,oklahoma where we would pool
investors.
(17:26):
These are much smaller checkwriters $50,000 to $100,000
check writers pull them togetherand buy larger apartments and
then we'd buy from developers aswell and even some developers
needed help capitalizing deals.
So went through the process ofa lot of that and in that time
you know I'd done a bunch ofdeals in Fort Smith outside of
(17:46):
this partnership.
You know, when I startedrunning out of doors in
Springdale, went down to FortSmith, bought a couple hundred
sorry, excuse me, a couplehundred units down there and
established good relationshipswith brokers down there, did the
same thing here, had a goodtrack record.
Reputation was everything to meand brokers appreciate that.
(18:08):
Then so did other people in thereal estate sphere.
But a broker had a piece of landthat had 100, previously had
145 units on it.
It was I negotiated with.
He was kind of representing theowner.
We were negotiating.
They wanted like 1.2, we werelike or they wanted no, they
(18:31):
wanted like 1.5 at first andthen got them almost down to
like 1 million.
But we just weren't comfortable.
Like we did a lot of duediligence, walked it, got bids
like from GCs on.
This is a property that had beenvacant for 10 years.
One of the buildings had to bedemoed, there was fires and it
was just, you know, anopportunity to pretty much
(18:55):
develop or redevelop where these145 units were, um, still had a
lot of stuff with the city, butwe couldn't come to terms and
you know, probably like maybesix months later we get a call
from the broker and the deal wasactually to the lend, like.
Now that deal was in thelender's hands, like because the
(19:15):
guy was just too greedy,wouldn't take, wouldn't take
what, we would do it and no oneelse would.
And we were the first call andwe we struck a deal.
I think we bought the land andeverything for around 900,000.
I think we're all in around amillion dollars, a little less
than a million, but it wasaround 900,000 for the for the
land purchase.
You could tell you crazysellers about this story.
The the seller had a warrantout for his arrest.
(19:37):
One of the partners was in adifferent country yeah crazy
said you know, good story, goodselling stories, make for good
deals too.
Um, but um, I had a littleexperience on the gc side and
you know, obviously myfather-in-law does too with the
painting company um, and youknow we had these bids, we had
(19:59):
talked to some gcs, we hadtalked to the city, um, and we,
we acted fast on it and now, um,we kind of co-g, co-gc,
co-developed it with another uh,gc.
That's pretty good.
But down in fort smith theywere kind of it.
It was slow.
They were kind of getting thesame subs that we would have got
(20:21):
in Fort Smith.
Talking to my partner was veryhands-on too.
He was on the site quite a bit.
He has $4 million in the deal,so the capital stack.
We'll have a $6.4 millionconstruction loan and about $4
million of cash into the deal,and a lot of that cash we're
spending up front too, likebefore the lender will loan on
(20:43):
it.
So, but that's digging out theplump, like we're going like 20
feet into the ground, digginglike taking out old plumbing,
like taking some of thesebuildings down to the studs.
Um, some serious gc.
So I ended up kicking him offthe site or kicking like just,
it was a mutual.
(21:03):
He's not very, he wasn't veryeffective in fort smith's great
reputation in northwest arkansas.
We're just gonna.
We got the contacts, we canself gc it.
So he started doing that.
Some city delays they had delaysgetting water out to the
property.
But in the beginning the citywas like let us know what we can
(21:23):
do for you.
Man, this property is likeright by the University of
Arkansas, fort Smith, right byTillis Park, like we'd love to
collaborate and let you know.
Thank you so much.
And we even had like a littlepress conference out there.
But some delays with some, Iguess, some of the things it's
beyond the city's control.
It's a government facility.
They have red tape, they have alot of departments, so some
(21:52):
delays in there.
But we have 20 units pre-leased.
It's awesome.
Leasing office is done.
You know first phase all theunits are ready, just need to
get water out there.
So you know we had people arelike on wait lists that want
like this property.
So we had to return somedeposits just because the city
couldn't get water out there.
(22:12):
So it's pre-leased now.
You know we'll probably hold onto it, I would say for a couple
of years.
We need to get it stabilized.
Maybe 12 months, get that thingleased up, and then I would
like to have another 12 monthsof burning off those concessions
that we offered and some rentincreases.
(22:33):
I think would be a good time.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
I love it, man, such a wealth of knowledge on,
starting with the smaller deal,d plus C minus type property and
value adding, leveraging toyour knees all the way to now
kind of getting this Fort Smithdevelopment deal done.
It's cool to see what you'vedone and I know we'll have more
episodes where we get to talkthrough more of your deals and
(22:56):
kind of what that looks like.
But if you have any questionsfor Brian too, on any of his
deals, kind of want to dig moreinto what that looks like,
definitely reach out and I knowhe'd be willing to chat on that.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, shoot me a name , brian at WagersCapitalcom.
It's the best way to get a holdof me, awesome.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Love it.
We appreciate y'all listeningand on the next episode we're
going to dive a little bit moreinto another deal on my end and
a completely different type ofportfolio.
So looking forward to that andthanks for listening.
Thanks guys, thanks Jess.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Again, thank you guys for tuning in.
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(27:51):
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Speaker 2 (28:58):
Special thanks to one of our sponsors, who I've
worked with personally onmulti-family commercial loans as
well as business acquisitions.
People's bank works withentrepreneurs, investors, deal
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If you're needing loan assistance, reach out to
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Have a question you want us to cover, send it our
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Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next.
Welcome to Northwest Arkansas Investing Podcast, your
go-to source for real estateinvesting in Northwest Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
With your seasoned investor just starting out.
We bring you expert insights,market trends and practical
strategies to help you buildwealth through real estate.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
From buying and selling to property management
and long-term investmentplanning.
We cover it all so you can makesmart, informed decision in
this fast-growing market.
Let's dive in.
All right, welcome back toNorthwest Arkansas Investing
Podcast.
I'm Brandon.
Still I'm here with Mr BrianWagers what's up, what's up, and
we're going to talk a littlebit about a deal deep dive here
(00:41):
and we're going to let Briankind of get into a few deals
that he's done over his time.
And, uh, he's done a lot ofdeals.
Partner in what?
6,000 units or more, yeah, um,part, yeah.
I have background on you.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, sure, yeah, been a partner on over 5,000
deal or 5,000 units GP.
I've invested as a limitedpartner in about 2000 deals.
Um have been the only partneron about 650 doors in Northwest
Arkansas and around the area, um, mostly small to medium sized
(01:15):
multifamily.
Um, more recently somedevelopment deals have have
looked at partnering withdevelopers, have, uh, bought
from developers, have boughtfrom developers at the previous
firm as a general partner.
So, multifamily, I did allmultifamily.
(01:35):
I have a 380 unit storage unitin Oklahoma and I have a
commercial strip, kind of acommercial strip mall not strip
mall but strip center just southof Fort Smith.
But other than that, well,first ever deal was just a
single family and then fromthere it was done with single
(01:58):
family.
The next deal was a 12 unit andthen, well, the most recent
deal is, yeah, 154 unit.
And then most recent deals,yeah, 154 unit.
That was a general partner onputting together 200 unit town
or 200 unit in Springdale andlooking at another 200 unit plus
in Fayetteville.
Love it.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah.
So Brian obviously brings awealth of knowledge and again
started out with single family,which is awesome, and, I think,
quickly realized that can'treally scale and build the kind
of the life and career that hewants with just that.
And so, brian, go ahead and getus into that first deal that
you want to talk about and, uh,I'd love to hear kind of how it
(02:38):
came about, how you financed itwhat it looked like, uh, kind of
throughout the process, and ifit's one that you actually did,
what that actually looks like,yeah, I'll.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I'll go through an exit request first.
So this would be, um, my thirddeal.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Um, so, you went single family 12 unit and then
this is your third deal.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, yeah, single family 12 unit.
Um, no, I'm sorry, this is myfifth deal.
So, single family 12 unit.
My deal after that 12 unit wasa 20 unit seller finance deal
that I, like, broke even on.
That's not one.
(03:20):
We're going to talk about one,we're going to talk about hello.
And next deal, that was a 12unit.
Um, and these deals I'm, I'mthe, I'm the owner operator, I'm
finding the deal.
I'm putting together insurance,managing the property
management, managing theconstruct.
These were like this when Ifirst got started.
Like 2017, these were like deepvalue.
I started like now I'm doingdevelopment, I buy an a class,
(03:41):
but in the beginning it was wasthis c class, c class, workforce
, workforce housing.
I'm buying from mom and popguys that have they let the
property falling apart bothphysically and operationally.
So that's how I got my teethdirty.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
So tell us kind of how you found the deal in the
first place.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, so this was one , two, three, four, five, six
deal and this was a 22 unit inSpringdale, springdale, arkansas
.
I did a lot of deals inSpringdale.
Actually, up to that point thiswould make my portfolio about a
hundred units and they were allon Springdale on deal number
six, including that singlefamily.
My first residence was CaveSprings, so this was 22 units.
(04:26):
A broker sent it to me so I hadbuilt up a relationship, we had
done a deal before this 52units and we partnered on it and
it went really well.
They actually ended uppartnering with me on it.
So they were representing theseller, um, and knew I could,
(04:47):
you know, close, send it to meas a quote.
Unquote pocket listing.
So, um, they knew all I wasfocused on was multifamily.
They knew I had done.
Some other in Springdale umseller may or may not want it
listed wanted to see what thisprice was.
So this was 22 units um twobuildings or three buildings and
(05:08):
springdale, not too far fromemma, um a lot of deferred
maintenance, like the wall, likethe, the siding was falling off
the, the driveway was gravelwith like kind of holes in it.
Would you argue that it wasmaybe even D-class?
I would, yeah, I would say thisone there's been worse that
I've had from this Exterior wasjust rough, like they didn't put
(05:31):
anything into the exterior,like tenants weren't too bad.
That third deal, that 20, thatwas probably D-class.
This was probably C-minusD-plus maybe.
So they sent it to me.
It was around uh, what was it?
750 000.
(05:51):
Yeah, okay, um, was thepurchase price on this one?
Okay.
And at the time I just had like,uh, two investors okay, and one
investor was I'm not touchingthat with a hundred foot pole
yeah, he saw it and he was like,nah, was this a friend or no?
This was my father-in-law, okay, well, actually this was my
(06:13):
girlfriend's dad at the time,this was Jen's dad.
And first, one of my firstdeals.
We did like a promissory notewhere I just agreed to pay him
back like 10% his note back plus10%.
And then after that I did acouple of seller finance deals
and he saw what I was doing onthe seller finance deals and I
(06:35):
was kind of sending them.
These deals, like these otherdeals, didn't do any.
And again here he said no andso I knew I had to go seller
finance.
So I asked if they would bewilling to keep a portion of the
note in the deal and I wouldget some financing for the
construction and the otherportion and I would pay him back
(07:01):
.
I agreed to do like a threeyear note or yeah, it was a
three or five year note.
I'd pay him back $500 a monthand I would give him 5% interest
on his note.
So he had this is yourfather-in-law, no, this is the
seller.
Father-in-law said hey, I'm nottouching that with a hundred
foot pole.
That needs does not look good.
It's like it's pull it up forthe.
(07:27):
That's something we need to dofor the Spotify.
It's like we have to pull uppictures of it.
But yeah, he was like I don'twant any part of it.
It needs like just as much inCapEx.
I think we put five.
I put like over 500,000 inCapEx.
Oh wow, I put like over 500,000in CapEx.
Oh wow, new roofs, new windows,new parking lot, new deck tore
(07:52):
out the old deck, like the deck,like stairway to the second
floor was falling apart.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Um, like fully renovated some interior units
and so that CapEx was uh, wasthat bank financed, or was that,
yeah, bank financed it?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Bank financed it.
I put up a little bit of my.
I put up some of my own capital.
I put like 25, you know it wasit was very minimal to to
complete out the CapEx, but theywere lending that the CapEx and
the seller kept the downpayment and the deal.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Okay, so he financed the down payment for you.
You financed the CapEx througha local bank.
Yeah, right, so I was in this100%.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I've talked about it before.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I'm like 100% leverage and then maybe there
was a little bit of an extra gapof CapEx that you came out of
pocket.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Oh, I was coming out like Jen's, like I thought we
were buying cash flowing assetsand I'm putting like $10,000 a
year, $5,000 a year because Ihad no reserves or anything for
like budget, because it was alllike I used all of it for like
help with the down payment.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
But it was a great deal, like the potential Um and
did you, did you really?
I mean, the play had to havebeen okay, get this renovated,
get the CapEx into it and thenmaybe stabilize it and then sell
it Right.
Was it or was it ever to tokeep long?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
No, I, I needed to start building snowballing that
equity.
I can't.
You know, if I wanted to dothat, I probably would have
stayed in single family and onehouse a year and had 10 houses
at 10 years right now.
That would been the route to goyeah but I knew I had to like
get in and out and grow it, uh,and put it into the next deal.
Yeah, that's good.
(09:30):
Um, you know I was cashing it.
It turned out really nice, didreally well, like that was my
like.
I self GC'd this.
I got the roofer, I got thewindow guy, I got the parking
lot guy, I got the interior guy.
So it was really goodexperience doing that too.
You know, it was a little, like, you know, scary.
I was never scared, my fiance.
(09:50):
I don't know, she was not myfiance at the time but this
became part of a largerportfolio of seller finance deal
that I ended up piecing off.
I put together about a hundred.
So I ended up buying anothereight unit, another 20 unit or
so and I pieced them togetherand I sold them as a portfolio
(10:10):
for like a larger buyer.
That was close.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
That's awesome.
So tell me, uh, so tell me,from from getting the deal from
the broker, how long did it takeyou to close, and then from
there, how long did it take youto get CapEx, get everything
done, and then maybe evenstabilize.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
From there I moved fast, man.
I knew like speed was going tobe my advantage in the market,
like speed and like executionwas like what I was going to be
known for and what I could likebring to the table.
So we got to close that Like wenegotiated very quickly.
I didn't take long to puttogether the offer.
You know, I think I closed inless than 60 days or so.
(10:49):
You know, um, maybe not, maybeit was around 60, less than 60.
I think 60 days was likeclosings are longer and longer
right now, so, but I think 60days was more the standard.
That's a whole notherconversation Like closings take
longer, a lot more work.
But it was around 60 days.
Capex was starting to meet.
Like I was getting quotesbecause, you know, as I was
(11:10):
negotiating, I was gettingquotes like from these different
you know specialty guys.
My father-in-law, I let himpaint.
He has a painting company, so Ilet him paint.
I'd say I let him because hedidn't invest with me.
But I'm getting bids as I'mdoing this negotiation.
So I was able to start capping.
(11:32):
The roofers were the day weclosed.
They were onsite On the top.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
So we had that all lined up right away.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
And that was yeah.
A full cap X period was what?
A month or two months?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, it was very yeah, Three months on the
exterior.
Yeah, because we did the roofs,then we did the windows, then
we did the roofs, then we didthe windows, then we did the
decking, that we did the parkinglot around the same time too,
and then interior units werebeing turned during this time
(12:07):
and then some of the interiorunits kind of staggered up like
people were still living in themand paying in them.
So we're not going to renovateit until they move out.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Yeah, that's an interesting point, though.
Just going back to what yousaid on kind of snowballing that
equity, I think a lot of times,at least smaller investors are
only thinking about cashflow andhow I can build the 10K a month
, 20k a month of cashflow ormore or whatever.
But for you I mean I thinkthere are, or anybody out there
I think there are deals outthere where maybe that makes
(12:39):
sense, but a lot of deals outthere, especially in Northwest
Arkansas there's a lot of meaton the bone to be able to,
especially if you're experiencedto be able to add value and get
a return off of that sale.
And then maybe, you know, gopress for a cash flow deal.
Is that kind of the way thatyou see it?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, it, and then maybe you know, go press for a
cashflow deal.
Is that kind of the way thatyou see it?
Yeah, it's funny because you,we I think one of our later
episodes we're going to be doinga deep dive on cashflow and
appreciation but where theinvesting pod, you can't talk
about that, not talk about thatlike a little bit in every
podcast.
But yeah, I was, that was allappreciation, that was not
cashflow at all and that waslike you know.
But I believe I never wavered.
(13:17):
You know, I said like I hadsome people around me like kind
of like question what I wasdoing.
But uh, I was, like you know,funneling my income into this,
into the, and I was growing itat the same time with these
other seller finance deals.
You know that that that 22 unitwas the first one, but then it
was uh, but then I got it up toabout 100 units.
(13:40):
I had, with no investors orpartners bringing on investment,
my father, all my neighbors, myfriends of friends now my
(14:01):
neighbor's friends and myfather-in-law's friends.
That was going on as I wasbuilding this portfolio.
Someone wouldn't do a sellerfinancing deal.
That at the time it was kind ofout of necessity.
I needed them to do a sellerfinance deal because I didn't
really know where my equity wascoming from.
But at first I was doing theseseller financing deals and I was
(14:23):
putting them in front of mygirlfriend's dad and then
started talking to other peoplebut he was telling me, no, no,
no.
But at the same time I wasstill talking to other people
and building it up.
So I then started to do where Iwas the operator and they were
the investor so bought somemedium size multifamily that way
(14:44):
82 unit, a couple of hundredunits of that kind of size, and
then piece together that justunder a hundred unit portfolio
of mine.
And then so I sold that in 2022or so.
Most of that yeah, that my likemy portfolio of a hundred
percent owned was around that 22and had a big Nice yeah, it was
(15:12):
.
That was my first, first sevenfigure check.
It was pretty sweet, amazing.
I kept it and I had noinvestors and no partners and I
called the bank that financedthat hell out of that, that
first deal, and the seller waslike 20% and the seller actually
was really nice to me thiswhole time and the seller
actually was really nice to methis whole time.
(15:33):
They're like man, I hear whatyou're doing out there.
Because they were like, thebroker trusts me a lot.
He copied me in with the sellerand we were talking too.
That's awesome.
But, you know, called andthanked the bank for like
trusting me to do that.
Do that first deal or not firstdeal, but that leverage deal.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
That's life changing man, and I think the important
thing that you mentioned thereis that you obviously the
relationship, but you have thetrack record that you started to
build, that kind of led youpast this into where you had,
(16:19):
you know, neighbors andfather-in-law and other people
wanting to join in on your deals.
You got to build that momentum.
I think it's super important,especially if you want to scale.
And then the last one, too,that I thought was pretty
interesting that you mentioned.
I think this is very important.
Your job was probably a hugefactor in being able to help you
carry this into the good cashout.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, yeah, commission-based sale.
At the time I was able to showreally good income and a steady
stream of income, a lot ofcommission, so that helps the
bank get comfortable too, and Ihad income to put back into the
projects too.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah man, that's awesome, give me one more.
We've got about four or fiveminutes if you want.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, so pivoting more past.
So after those, as some of youguys know, I was a general
partner on a lot of syndicateddeals where we're buying 100
units to 300 units Texas,oklahoma where we would pool
investors.
(17:26):
These are much smaller checkwriters $50,000 to $100,000
check writers pull them togetherand buy larger apartments and
then we'd buy from developers aswell and even some developers
needed help capitalizing deals.
So went through the process ofa lot of that and in that time
you know I'd done a bunch ofdeals in Fort Smith outside of
(17:46):
this partnership.
You know, when I startedrunning out of doors in
Springdale, went down to FortSmith, bought a couple hundred
sorry, excuse me, a couplehundred units down there and
established good relationshipswith brokers down there, did the
same thing here, had a goodtrack record.
Reputation was everything to meand brokers appreciate that.
(18:08):
Then so did other people in thereal estate sphere.
But a broker had a piece of landthat had 100, previously had
145 units on it.
It was I negotiated with.
He was kind of representing theowner.
We were negotiating.
They wanted like 1.2, we werelike or they wanted no, they
(18:31):
wanted like 1.5 at first andthen got them almost down to
like 1 million.
But we just weren't comfortable.
Like we did a lot of duediligence, walked it, got bids
like from GCs on.
This is a property that had beenvacant for 10 years.
One of the buildings had to bedemoed, there was fires and it
was just, you know, anopportunity to pretty much
(18:55):
develop or redevelop where these145 units were, um, still had a
lot of stuff with the city, butwe couldn't come to terms and
you know, probably like maybesix months later we get a call
from the broker and the deal wasactually to the lend, like.
Now that deal was in thelender's hands, like because the
(19:15):
guy was just too greedy,wouldn't take, wouldn't take
what, we would do it and no oneelse would.
And we were the first call andwe we struck a deal.
I think we bought the land andeverything for around 900,000.
I think we're all in around amillion dollars, a little less
than a million, but it wasaround 900,000 for the for the
land purchase.
You could tell you crazysellers about this story.
The the seller had a warrantout for his arrest.
(19:37):
One of the partners was in adifferent country yeah crazy
said you know, good story, goodselling stories, make for good
deals too.
Um, but um, I had a littleexperience on the gc side and
you know, obviously myfather-in-law does too with the
painting company um, and youknow we had these bids, we had
(19:59):
talked to some gcs, we hadtalked to the city, um, and we,
we acted fast on it and now, um,we kind of co-g, co-gc,
co-developed it with another uh,gc.
That's pretty good.
But down in fort smith theywere kind of it.
It was slow.
They were kind of getting thesame subs that we would have got
(20:21):
in Fort Smith.
Talking to my partner was veryhands-on too.
He was on the site quite a bit.
He has $4 million in the deal,so the capital stack.
We'll have a $6.4 millionconstruction loan and about $4
million of cash into the deal,and a lot of that cash we're
spending up front too, likebefore the lender will loan on
(20:43):
it.
So, but that's digging out theplump, like we're going like 20
feet into the ground, digginglike taking out old plumbing,
like taking some of thesebuildings down to the studs.
Um, some serious gc.
So I ended up kicking him offthe site or kicking like just,
it was a mutual.
(21:03):
He's not very, he wasn't veryeffective in fort smith's great
reputation in northwest arkansas.
We're just gonna.
We got the contacts, we canself gc it.
So he started doing that.
Some city delays they had delaysgetting water out to the
property.
But in the beginning the citywas like let us know what we can
(21:23):
do for you.
Man, this property is likeright by the University of
Arkansas, fort Smith, right byTillis Park, like we'd love to
collaborate and let you know.
Thank you so much.
And we even had like a littlepress conference out there.
But some delays with some, Iguess, some of the things it's
beyond the city's control.
It's a government facility.
They have red tape, they have alot of departments, so some
(21:52):
delays in there.
But we have 20 units pre-leased.
It's awesome.
Leasing office is done.
You know first phase all theunits are ready, just need to
get water out there.
So you know we had people arelike on wait lists that want
like this property.
So we had to return somedeposits just because the city
couldn't get water out there.
(22:12):
So it's pre-leased now.
You know we'll probably hold onto it, I would say for a couple
of years.
We need to get it stabilized.
Maybe 12 months, get that thingleased up, and then I would
like to have another 12 monthsof burning off those concessions
that we offered and some rentincreases.
(22:33):
I think would be a good time.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
I love it, man, such a wealth of knowledge on,
starting with the smaller deal,d plus C minus type property and
value adding, leveraging toyour knees all the way to now
kind of getting this Fort Smithdevelopment deal done.
It's cool to see what you'vedone and I know we'll have more
episodes where we get to talkthrough more of your deals and
(22:56):
kind of what that looks like.
But if you have any questionsfor Brian too, on any of his
deals, kind of want to dig moreinto what that looks like,
definitely reach out and I knowhe'd be willing to chat on that.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, shoot me a name , brian at WagersCapitalcom.
It's the best way to get a holdof me, awesome.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Love it.
We appreciate y'all listeningand on the next episode we're
going to dive a little bit moreinto another deal on my end and
a completely different type ofportfolio.
So looking forward to that andthanks for listening.
Thanks guys, thanks Jess.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Again, thank you guys for tuning in.
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do a great job.
The SOPs, so systems andprocessing that they have over
Advantage Title is justincredible.
Clients love it.
They do a great job from startto end communicating.
When I give a deal to AdvantageTitle and Escrow I know that
(26:22):
it's going to be taken care of.
There's no second guessing.
I almost am able to treat themlike a second transaction
coordinator to my transactioncoordinator that I already have.
I know that they're going tohandle the systems and processes
correctly.
As an agent, as a homeowner, asa buyer or seller.
They do an incredible job ofhandling a transaction and
communicating throughout theprocess.
(26:42):
They do a great job withcommunication, especially Kayla
Phillips over there.
I would highly encourage you,if you're looking to close on a
home, buy a home.
If you're an agent, listeningto use advantage, title and
escrow specifically KaylaPhillips.
So you're going to reach Kaylabest at 501-358-1601.
(27:05):
Or you can email her KaylaC-A-Y-L-A at goadvantagetitlecom
.
Advantage is A-D-V-A-N-T-A-G-Etitlecom.
Our next sponsor is TDSIT.
That's T as in Tim, d as indocument, s as in solution I as
(27:29):
in information, t as intechnology.
This one hits personal.
It's close to home.
My dad, tim Stanley, runs TDSITand he decided to sponsor our
podcast.
So I can speak from personalexperience.
I've been able to work for mydad in the past as well and
they're a great, great solutionfor business technology.
(27:51):
If you're a local business owner, or even out of state, if
you're running a business, needprinters, need information IT
services.
If you need phones, scanners,printers, all the way up to you
know you're printing books to.
Hey, we just need something inthe office.
Tds IT is that spot.
They provide the best in-brandbusiness technology with proven
(28:16):
best in local service, and theycan prove it.
Our next sponsor is fromWinstone Private Lending.
This episode is brought to youby Winstone Private Lending, one
of the top private and hardmoney lenders now serving
Northwest Arkansas.
Whether you need short-termcapital for a flip, a bridge
loan or creative financing,they've got you covered with
very flexible products to fitnearly any deal, including 100%
(28:40):
financing.
What sets them apart is theirdeep expertise, fast response
times and ability to thinkoutside of the box to help
investors like us close quicklyand efficiently.
If you're looking for a reallending partner, check out
Winstone Private Lending.
Link is in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Special thanks to one of our sponsors, who I've
worked with personally onmulti-family commercial loans as
well as business acquisitions.
People's bank works withentrepreneurs, investors, deal
makers and risk takers.
They're the ones who seeopportunities where others see
obstacles, whether it's a vacantlot with a plan for a thriving
business or making an old spacenew.
They work with creators whothink big and are not satisfied
(29:21):
with the status quo.
People's Bank helps you buildArkansas, deal by deal and brick
by brick.
They don't just see numbers ona spreadsheet, they see your
passion and vision.
People's Bank, it's wherepeople come first.
Member FDIC.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
If you're needing loan assistance, reach out to
Dakota at 870-883-1706 ordhedden at peoplesbankarcom.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
If you enjoyed the show, make sure to give us a
follow on your favorite podcastplatform so you never miss an
update.
Don't forget to connect with uson Instagram, facebook and
LinkedIn for more real estateinsights and behind the scenes
content.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Have a question you want us to cover, send it our
way, and if you're interested insponsoring the show, visit
nwainvestingcom to get in touch.
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next.
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