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July 2, 2025 • 36 mins

The financing landscape for real estate investors is evolving rapidly, and private lending is leading that revolution. In this eye-opening conversation, Rocky Feinberg, Executive Vice President of Windstone Private Lending, pulls back the curtain on how relationship-based private lending works and why it's transforming how deals get done in emerging markets across the country.

After starting his career in the music industry and transitioning to commercial real estate, Rocky found his calling in creating financing solutions that eliminate the bureaucratic nightmare many investors face. "People get so burnt out with the bureaucratic process," he explains. "When the difference is just 3-4 thousand dollars on a deal where you're already making 50K, most investors decide their life is way easier when they don't have to jump through hoops."

What makes private lending different? Unlike banks or even hard money lenders that follow rigid guidelines set by their Wall Street partners, private lenders like Windstone balance-sheet their loans and make their own rules. This flexibility allows them to close deals in 1-2 days with minimal documentation, focus on the asset rather than the borrower, and adapt quickly to market conditions. Rocky shares that they've successfully funded clients with credit scores as low as 512, understanding that life events happen and numbers don't tell the whole story.

Particularly fascinating is Windstone's strategy of targeting emerging markets rather than established hot spots like Miami or Austin. Rocky reveals that during recent market corrections, emerging markets like Northwest Arkansas only saw a 2.5% decline in home values compared to nearly 20% drops in places like Austin. He explains how they identify promising markets by tracking commercial development, population trends, and corporate relocations.

Whether you're considering fix-and-flip projects or new construction, understanding the financing options available beyond traditional banking could be the difference between scaling your portfolio and getting stuck in paperwork purgatory. Ready to put private money to work in your next deal? Windstone Private Lending has now entered the Northwest Arkansas market, bringing their relationship-based approach to this rapidly growing region.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Northwest Arkansas Investing Podcast, your
go-to source for real estateinvesting in Northwest Arkansas.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
With your seasoned investor just starting out.
We bring you expert insights,market trends and practical
strategies to help you buildwealth through real estate.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
From buying and selling to property management
and long-term investmentplanning, we cover it all so you
can make smart, informeddecision in this fast-growing
market.
Let's dive in.
All right.
Welcome back to NorthwestArkansas Investing Podcast.
I've got our co host, brianWagers and Zach Stanley, and
we've got our special guest, mrRocky Feinberg.
So thanks for coming, rocky.

(00:43):
Of course Flew in fromNashville and so we're pumped to
have him.
He's kind of got a wealth ofknowledge in his businesses and
private money, and so we'd loveto kind of get I mean, give us a
30,000 foot view, rocky, ofkind of your story, what your
business is like, where you'refrom, whatever We'd love kind of
everybody to get to know you alittle bit of course.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
Again, thank you guys for having me pleasure to be
here first time in northwestbeautiful place.
Man, it's awesome.
Yeah, um, I went to school intuscaloosa, but don't hold that
against me.
Drove by your campus today abeautiful place um uh, actually,
initially, funny enough, Istarted in, uh, music industry.
Really, it's like pretty crazy.
Yeah, you know, I was like oneof those guys that came up
watching the tv show entourageand I'm like I would do that,

(01:27):
which actually was.
Um, I worked in the mailroom atcaa, which is a massive talent
agency in la, quickly, you know,got promoted there.
I was working the music sideand, uh, took a job out of
nashville, did that for a coupleyears right before COVID.
I was like really tired of justlike grinding for $37,000 a year

(01:49):
and getting a 45 cent an hourraise a year and I'm like
there's gotta be something morethan this.
Talked to some friends why youshould look into real estate and
, long story short, got mylicense actually as a broker,
went to go do investment saleswith a local guy who left
Collier's in Nashville, startedhis own fund, learned a lot
under him and you know it wasgood and I liked it.

(02:11):
I liked the commercial side ofit but I was more interested in
kind of the financial side of itand I got plugged in with a guy
who was helping a company fromLos Angeles break into the
Southeast market and the companywas named Pacific Financial
Services.
Did you know traditional singlefamily loans on the investment
side, fix and flip, no ground upactually at that time, dscr

(02:32):
type stuff.
Now it's kind of my intro intothis space and I worked with
them for, I'm going to say,three or four years, something
like that Long story there.
There was a manager buyout withthe bank that owned us.
Things kind of went south withthat company.
A lot of people were on therocks potentially leaving and I
was actually going to go backinto commercial real estate and

(02:52):
go do debt and equity.
And I was grabbing a drink witha colleague who had a similar
company in Nashville and I waslike you know what?
We're starting something Littledid.
I know they've actually had thecompany for two years, which is
where I'm at now.
Win, you know we're startingsomething A little bit I know
they've actually had the companyfor two years, which is where
I'm at now Winstone PrivateLending.
I'm the executive vice presidentof that company and he's like
we're kind of just playingaround with it.
We don't really know what we'redoing.

(03:13):
And you know, we have someloans on the books but we're not
paying enough attention to it.
And when we started workingwith them, we found a niche in
the market and to me coming from, and I think it was really
important for whoever took overthis company to try to grow it
that they came from thebackground.
That I did with a moreinstitutionalized, absolutely

(03:33):
yeah, because, like every singleday and I'm sure everyone
listening and you guys havedealt with it where you're
getting financing and it's like,man, this is actually harder
than doing the project itself.
Yeah, day before it closed,another bank statement letter of
explanation your is actuallyharder than doing the project
itself.
Yeah, day before close, anotherbank statement letter
explanation, your writer givingyou issues with one or this,
this, this, and that.
It's like.
This was just so eye-opening tome.
It's like, well, this kind offinancing exists.

(03:54):
Obviously, you know it's alittle different than what's out
on the market, but, uh, we'reable to grow the business very,
very quickly, yeah, introducednew markets, partnered with some
guys and you know kind of justnaturally kept building from
there.
We're two years in since when Ijoined and we've 10X the
company in that time, fouremployees.

(04:16):
Now we're at 18.
And we want to keep the trackrecord.
Continue to do welfare.
Clients provide a good service.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
What markets so far have you guys entered?

Speaker 4 (04:26):
into.
Right now we are in, I guess,technically north to south and
southeast.
We're in Columbus, ohio,indianapolis, indiana, lexington
, kentucky, louisville, kentucky, bowling Green, kentucky,
northern Alabama.
So we're kind of in thatHuntsville area, mobile, alabama
, which is one of the new oneswe popped into, upstate
Greenville, south Carolina, inNorth Carolina we're in

(04:50):
Charlotte, raleigh, durham,fayetteville, kind of every big
market there outside ofWilmington and Asheville, north
Carolina.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
What took you so long to get here?

Speaker 4 (05:00):
Part of what we do is it's not really a science.
We can follow population trendsas much as we want.
We could follow where themoney's moving, days on market,
all these different activitiesto give us indication of where
we should go lend our money.
Uh, because we want to be like,you know, every big company,
like big box private lendingcompany or hard money, whatever
you want to call it.
They love doing business inmiami, dallas and Austin and LA

(05:24):
and Scottsdale and all theseplaces.
It's great.
You got million dollar dealsthere all day and you can't get
enough of them.
We take a little differentapproach.
We want to be in markets thatare on the move.
So a lot of the markets I justmentioned, similar to y'all,
have seen a massive surge since2020.
Yeah, mentioned similar toy'all, have seen a massive surge

(05:46):
since 2020.
Yeah, obviously, you know,induced by covid in the covid
flight of people moving frommarket to market, leaving the
la's and the chicagos and thenew jersey's and new york's to
come to these markets.
You know, for workability,because they could work home,
cost living, all that stuff.
But we look at it from thatapproach and like there's real
no science behind it.
I look at commercial changes too.
You know, I think your uhstates politicians have done a
phenomenal job.
Yeah, getting companies to movehere with tax.
Know science behind it.
I look at commercial changestoo.
You know.
I think your uh statespoliticians have done a

(06:06):
phenomenal job.
Yeah, getting companies to movehere with tax breaks and stuff
like that, yeah, brings morepeople here.
Increasing home prices, morecommercial development driving
around here today I'm like I'llpay you a thousand dollars.
You can find a building that'solder than 10 years old here.
It just shows the growth.
Yeah, um yeah yeah, I'd saythat's probably the main reason
we decide to move into marketsis you know, I follow a lot of

(06:28):
trends Like I mean, you can'tfollow Topgolf.
Like if somebody has no ideawhat they're doing, pick out one
company, say Topgolf is whereI'm at Whole Foods Topgolf year
on analyst to find reasons to goto these markets you could just
search top call locations indevelopment.

(06:48):
It's a great start going there.
Yeah, it's, it's.
There's no real size to it.
I mean, at least for us.
We said, yeah, looks good, andwe look at the housing trends
and days on market and stufflike that yeah, our decision
from there.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
I feel like that's when we finally thought that we
made.
It is when we got like a topgolf for like we did yeah we
still don't have like thecostcos and stuff, but I mean
walmart's really pushing thoseout probably, but sure, but
anyway, yeah, I like how you'relooking at them.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
You're looking at emerging markets and we're
talking.
You know we talk a lot aboutnorthwest arkansas and within
northwest arkansas there'semerging markets like centerton,
peerage, bella vista and howyou guys look at it, northwest
arkansas is still on the merge.
You're coming from nashville,you're you're overlooking the
big cities that have alreadyemerged.
You know, and it just someonein northwest arkansas we still

(07:31):
have people viewing northwestarkansas as emerging market.
You know, like, yeah, we think,oh man, it's, it's gone up so
much, but there's still a lot ofoutside capital, a lot of
outside institutionalists comingto the area and I think that's
such a good point on what thedifferent factors too you're
looking looking at emerging.
What other companies areinvesting money?
You know we talk aboutStarbucks in the past.

(07:51):
It's probably good If you'rebuying an A-class apartment.
It's probably good if there's aStarbucks or a Whole Foods
right next to your apartment.
Sure, yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:59):
I think that's yeah, those things have to matter.
You know, and I think from amore holistic approach too, when
you're looking at it, you haveto compare it to other towns as
well.
For some reason I don't knowwhy I put these two together.
But if I look at Greenville,south Carolina 15 years ago, I'm

(08:19):
privy to the area.
I've been there growing up.
I have family there, so I'veseen the transgression of it.
This is so eerily similar to it, and when you think you're like
, wow, we made it.
You have no idea how muchfurther that can go.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:31):
It's crazy to see we see it in Nashville.
I was talking to somebody lastnight about this, since, you
know, 2014, 2015 is kind of whenthings started to really really
build there to really reallybuild there and one of the
neighborhoods that in 2005, youwouldn't walk in past six
o'clock.
The teardown in thatneighborhood now goes for a
million dollars.
Wow, that's great, and I'lltalk to my friends there about,

(08:53):
like God, do you think this is agood buy?
Is this a good buy?
I'm like I can't tell you.
I have absolutely no idea,because this thing could be
triple what it is in 10 years.
It could stay stagnant.
One other thing that's, I think, important to mention about
emerging markets too, incomparison to those other big
markets we've talked about, isfrom a risk standpoint for
investors.
So we just saw over the pasttwo years I mean, it's no

(09:15):
surprise to anyone listening,are you all we saw a minor price
adjustment in the market,obviously influenced by rates
and other external factors, noweven tariffs, with the cost of
construction.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (09:23):
Feeling that.
Yeah, I'm sure everyone is andit's a real thing.
But there's a bigger hook tothose bigger economies, those
bigger cities in priceadjustments than there are to
emerging markets.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
And so it's a great way to hedge risk too, so when I
look at it, I think I readsomething about Northwestern
Arkansas where you guys maybehad a 2.5% decline in home
values or something like thatover the past year and a half.
Just completely natural whenrates double, right If you look
at a market like Austin, Texas,who's down almost 20% of home

(09:59):
values.
You look at, la, who was closerto the average of the United
States, was like 10% marketdeduction.
Nashville, same 10% marketdeduction, but you guys are only
at two and a half.
There's something to say aboutit and a majority of the other
markets we lend it are the sameexact way.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
People freak out when it only increases like one or
2% here Like where?

Speaker 4 (10:19):
is it Right?

Speaker 2 (10:21):
You're like no, it's going the other way, yeah Right.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
Yeah, and you's it's.
You gotta be very careful aboutthat stuff.
People get in really excited.
They get really excited, like Imean, you see people, I'm not a
crypto guy, I'll never claim tobe one, but everyone's like you
gotta go buy this coin, yougotta go buy this coin.
You gotta go buy this coin.
You wake up in the morning and75% of your money's gone.
Whoa, what just happened here?
Yeah, this is very slow, steady.
It's like investing in the S&P,just slow.
Instead.

(10:45):
There might be a little wiggleroom here and there, but
ultimately it's a safer place toput your money.
In.
Long-term, too, you can seegreat growth.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's something thatwe see a lot of, and even those
guys that have been around herefor so long Zach and I grew up
here, brian's from Cincinnati,but has been here a long time we
see that, even though all thisgrowth has happened and
everything's doubled or morekind of what the end looks like,

(11:14):
maybe in 20 years, andespecially a lot of that driven
by population growth and whatthey're projecting there.
So we love kind of what thatlooks like.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
What I love about this area and I've actually had
this conversation four or fivetimes and I've, I think you guys
will concur with it is that Ithink, and with the local
government, we have really bigbuy-in from our big, big money.
People from the waltons, fromthe hunts, from the tysons, and
so when you know an area needssome help and development, where

(11:42):
local government can't, doesn'thave it, like we might have a
walton, go, you know, here's,here's this money, go take care
of the infrastructure.
And so we have this buy-in fromgenerations of billionaires
that are like we love this area,and so it feels unique for us.
Where we have, like, I think,the status nine of america's top
20 wealthiest people live innorthwest arkansas.

(12:02):
Northwest arkansas like thecorn, like drive your tractor or
state like in northwestArkansas, they're here, and so I
love the local buy-in we havefrom people like that.
Something I also want to touchon is Rocky was saying that you
know they're going into allthese markets and I'm listener,
listening we'll get into y'all'sproducts and you a little bit
more, but you don't do anymarketing, which I think is

(12:24):
super cool, and so what?
The stuff you're pushing mustbe good, and so I would say to
keep tuning in for what he hasto say about that.
I mean doing no marketing,coming into these big markets
and being successful over andover and over again speaks
volumes for your company and forwhat the stuff you guys have
been doing yeah, absolutely yeah, it's.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
Uh, it's exciting to see you know.
You plant a couple seedseverywhere and they start to
grow.
And it's not even about themoney, it's more about working
with the right people yeah.
Providing good service.
If you start taking on too muchbusiness at one time, you're
going to lose your edge.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
Really quickly, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (12:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
Rocky, we'd love to get more of an idea for folks
that don't know anything aboutwhat you talked about before and
what your business does.
Private money what is that?
Can you help explain what thatlooks like?
I am five years old.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Tell me, what that means.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Give us an idea of different products and maybe how
others have used you in thepast.
Stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (13:21):
Sure.
So I'll first explain differentkinds of financing you could
have as an investor.
I'm just going to use the termsthat I think are industry
standard.
A lot of people disagree withme on these terms.
That is fine, as long as youallude to what you're talking
about, it's all that matters.
So the main source of financingthat there always has been has
been traditional bank financing.
We all know what it is.
You buy a house, you use it.

(13:41):
You can have car finance,unless you have a credit union.
That is what you use.
That is pretty much the bankingand global economy, right.
So you go, you do a fix andflip.
They will do new construction,fix and flips, dscr, all those
types of loans.
You can get a loan through themif that is your objective.
Only difference is it is moreof a borrower-based underwrite
rather than an asset-basedunderwrite.
They care about your debt toincome, your global cashflow,

(14:02):
all these items as well as theproperty itself.
It's a bureaucratic process.
I've been through it.
I'm sure you guys have gonethrough it.
Full appraisals, hard creditchecks, this, this.
That it's a lot, but it's goingto be some very cheap financing
If you're willing to jumpthrough the hoops and put down a
ton of money and wait some time.
It is your best financingthrough and through.
Yeah, off of.

(14:23):
That is kind of where this hardmoney realm came.
Yeah, so hard money is likethey have a great product over
here.
However, you're asking for alot.
When we finance these deals, wedon't care as much about you.
We care more about the propertybecause we have to take this
back.
You're not going to help us out.
This is the only tangible assetwe have.
So it's very similar.

(14:44):
The only difference I'd say isobviously they care more about
the property.
If a bank has 15 to 20 creditboxes that they need to hit, the
hard money company may havefive to 10, but it's still a
bureaucratic process.
You're still getting anappraisal.
You're still doing aconstruction feasibility study.
You're still jumping throughthese natural banking hoops per

(15:05):
se to get the deal done.
Trade off slightly moreexpensive on price, so that's
kind of hard money.
In general, you're stillputting down 10 to 20% going
through a hard underwrite.
Getting a full appraisal, doingthe construction draws a
natural way.
Maybe one to 3% higher onorigination or rate.

(15:26):
What else, guys?
3%?
higher on origination or rateRight.
The other kind of financing Iguess there's two parts to this
is there's private financing,Private lending, what I do, what
a lot of other people do.
There's two types of privatelending that can get confused.
The first part is if you have arich uncle, rich family friend,
rich, somebody who's going tobe like hey, I got money, I want

(15:46):
to lend it to you.
Here's 10%.
I might not even record a deedon this.
That is, hands down, the bestfinancial ever get.
Like, if you had that, I wouldnever.
I would never try to sellsomebody my product that has
that.
I'd be like you know what?
That is a phenomenal thing.
You have there, Run with it.
That is private lending throughand through.
That's not the private lendingthat everyone knows about,

(16:07):
because not everyone has that.
The private lending that I offerand that majority of market
offers is we raise money, welend that money with our own
rules.
So the hard money companies 90%of them what they do is they
have three to four note buyerson Wall Street or other places
that essentially say we needthis minimum credit score, this

(16:27):
maximum loan amount, thisminimum loan amount.
Construction can't be more than75% of the cost of the purchase
.
Like there's all these littlecredit boxes so that loan
originator will essentially haveto get that loan and find which
box it fits in.
Once they get enough of thoseloans, they package it up, they
sell it off to the partner.
They don't balance sheet theloans.
They package it up, they sellit off to the partner.

(16:49):
They don't balance sheet theloans, so they're essentially an
intermediary to the final buyerof the loan.
What a private lender does isthey balance sheet everything,
but they play by their own rules.
Some days we wake up and we sayno minimum credit score which
we don't have a minimum creditscore but we say we're willing
to do new construction the nextday.
No more new construction.
Somebody could come to us witha commercial property and be
like that's a pretty good deal,We'll take a look at that.

(17:11):
We don't have any guidelines.
We don't need any certain kindof documentation.
We choose what we want to needand that's it.
Inherently.
That means we could also doother items, like not have to
order appraisals.
We don't need to do hard creditchecks.
We don't need to do on-siteinspections for draws.
We can close in one to twobusiness days.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Does that does that for you, for y'all on your end.
That does that require a lot.
Maybe not underwriting on thedeal, but underwriting of the
trust process of who the personis.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
Sure, relationships have a massive, are massive.
You know, if you have a trackrecord with us, that speaks for
itself.
We have people that come to usall the time.
They're like I've done 20 deals, great.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:54):
I would probably rather partner with the guy
who's done two with me and paidthem both off in time and didn't
miss a payment.
Just because I've worked withhim, I've seen his stuff,
institutional knowledge You'reprobably phenomenal.
I'd love the opportunity toearn your business.
However, relationships carry alot of weight.
I mean, we in HuntsvilleAlabama, we work with this guy
all the time down there and he'slike I have an industrial deal,
I want to do Like we don't doindustrial, but you've

(18:16):
successfully paid off 30 dealswith us, so maybe we should look
at this.
You know, and we did, and wefinanced it and it was great and
he paid us off and everythingwas good.
But you know, if somebody cameoff the street it'd be like you
know, let's get a couple yeahlet's get a couple easy ones,
you know a couple base hits, andwe'll go from there.
Yeah, um, the products that weoffer, I think was this the

(18:36):
latter part of that question uh,I would say typically
short-term construction loans.
We can do short-term bridgeloans, but we're looking
traditionally fix and flips,burr deals, easy new
construction deals, three bed,two bath well, 1,800 square foot
type new construction deals.
I don't love multifamily.
I'll be honest Two to fourunits we'll look at.

(18:59):
We've financed plenty of them.
Once you get over four units,the takeout partner gets a
little more difficult on whowill refinance those or who will
buy those.
As long as we say that is witha single family, your buyer pool
is like this big.
With multifamily it's like thatbig.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
So it's razor thin on the risk side.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
I'll see myself out.

Speaker 4 (19:21):
I will say I know plenty of lenders who will
handle those deals and I'm happyto refer anybody even listening
to this who may need a letterto do that.
It's just personally not me,but sometimes we do get a deal
where it's 18 units and we'lltake a look at it and we'll say,
hmm, this is interesting, thenumbers make a ton of sense.
We'd prefer that that sponsorhas a significant degree of

(19:44):
knowledge of multifamily,because there's a natural change
.
You'll kind of see a lot ofpeople.
They hop in with wholesalingand they do fix and flips for a
while, then they do some burgersand they're like I want to do
new construction likemultifamily industrial.
You know this is which is greatand I completely implore that.
Um, sometimes people just go alittle too fast.
They don'm trying to go fromwholesaling to 134 unit

(20:07):
apartment complex in Hawaii.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
How did I get here?

Speaker 4 (20:12):
And it's like, hey, best of luck to you, I'm just
not the partner for you on thatdeal.
If you ever need any advice,give me a call.
I just really can't do that.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Right, I know that, as far as exit strategy goes,
I'll here's the conversationI'll have with my clients, but
the investors that come to meout of state and I'm
representing a lot of people insingle family and small
multifamily and I'll go hey guys, I know, you know we're talking
about 18 plus units or fourplus units Um, everyone talks
about entry, no one thinks aboutexit, and so I'll go.

(20:43):
You're the.
The person who's going to makethat emotional decision on a
single family is is a lot biggerand so that person can go yeah,
this is, this is our home.
It doesn't have to make masssense, it can just make sense
for my heart and like thatsingle family or maybe that,
maybe that duplex it's a littlein the emotional field, but like

(21:04):
the 18 plus, now there's great.
As you know, there's great waysto exit quick.
Uh, big multi-family as well.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Uh, brian, does syndication type stuff smaller
multi, yeah, multi-family, yeah,just some of the 18 units, 20
units.
Development, yeah, and somesyndication.
There's a massive need forthose on a low level.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
On a lower level, like for your average person,
it's a lot easier to exit thosesingle families, those
multi-families like right and Ithink you know what's.

Speaker 4 (21:30):
What's kind of scary too is you know we could get
into this later.
But you talk to somebody doingthe deal maybe be their first
deal and it's like, well, I'mgonna sell for 400k.
It's like, and what if itdoesn't sell?
For haven't thought past that,probably think about that, yeah,
and I'm sure we'll probably getinto that stuff later on in the
show.
Yeah, it, it's a question youshould always ask yourself.

(21:50):
If you're getting involved witha deal.
Your lender should ask you thattoo, because I'm not here to
just make money.
Obviously, we run a business.
Our goal is to make money, butwe're also trying to provide a
service.
If you get a double bogey onyour first deal, you're likely
not coming back for another,which means we can't do more
business together.
There's coming back for another, which means we can't do more
business together.
Like there's plenty of timeswe'll tell a client it's like I

(22:11):
understand you like this deal, Iunderstand.
This is what your wholesaler istelling you.
This is not a good deal.
This is not personal, this isnumbers.
It's it's you know.
At the end of the day, what wedo is completely statistical and
based with data.
Like here are the numbers.
Can you potentially get thatprice?
Yes, will you likely get thatprice?
None of this data is telling me.
Yeah, it's not emotional.

(22:33):
Like people you don't get it,you don't understand.
I'm like sorry.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
It sounds like a lot of your bread and butter, though
is is fix and flips, kind ofyou know deals that guys are
trying to get a quick hit on.
Really yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
I mean it's or the burst stuff is very
circumstantial, um, but a lot ofit's fixed and flip.
I think you know right now evenwe're kind of nearing back or
slightly towards a buyer'smarket.
I think it's pretty even.
Yeah, play field.
But, yeah, people are like, oh,it's just not a good time to
buy for fix and flip.
It's not a good time for thisone.
I don't care what rates are out.
There's always a good time tobuy.
Yeah, the price, the price iseverything.
It's whether or not you'rebuying for the right price or
not.
So rates could be 10%.

(23:14):
This could be 2020, when themarket was going crazy, or it
could be 2023 in March when thestuff started to increase.
There's always a good time tobuy.
It just depends on the priceyou're buying at.
The way we envision it is, fixand flips, especially for people
that are trying to retain a lotof cash and keep things moving,
are a phenomenal way to do it.
Burs are too.
You know, if you would haveasked me in 2022, what the best

(23:37):
route would probably, I'd say isprobably burs.
Yeah, we were seeing guys buyproperties for 150K.
Put it in 50K to them andthey'd appraise for 325,000.
They'd do 80% cash out refisand they'd be debt servicing and
they'd walk through the $70,000check and a debt servicing
property.
It was like it was unbelievableto see this.

(23:57):
Yeah, I financed two 21 yearolds out of California who I
think they had they stillworking capital stack of over
$1.2 million.
They did this in San Antonio.
They dropped out of college todo this.
It was unbelievable.
That's's not easy.
You know, one day they got themusic stopped, yeah, um.
So being hyper aware of stufflike that and realizing there's
still a ton of money to be madein real estate, whether it's 08

(24:19):
or whether it's right now, youjust have to find the right
avenues to make money and becreative and being willing to
flip strategies whenever youneed to.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
That makes sense.
I feel like private money.
You asked a question whatdefines private money and you
gave a really good explanation.
There's the rich friend or richinfluencer will do that kind of
note.
It seems like they look for andyourself private lending
options.
Look for more shorter terminvestments.
Is that pretty fair to say?

Speaker 4 (24:44):
Yeah, for the most part.
I think for us, like I said, alot of our financing is a lot of
our clients aren't trying tohit home runs with these deals.
They're trying to consistentlyget singles and doubles, make 30
to 80K a deal and just keep itrolling while not taking on too
much of a risk profile For us.

(25:05):
Technically we could do ayear-long loan.
It just gets increasinglyexpensive.
We could do a year long loan.
It just gets increasinglyexpensive.
I think one thing that reallydifferentiates us from the rich
influencer or aunt or uncle orwhoever it is, is we have to
raise money, then we have tomake spread on top of that the
rich aunt and uncle.
They don't necessarily know theprocess of how to record a

(25:28):
mortgage or have a lien or anyof that stuff, and we work with
a lot of people even that havethat kind of financing available
.
But that financing is notendless.
I discern they're going to belike we're capped.
So any book buddy I talked tothat has it, use that as much as
possible and then, when they'reout, come to us and we'll help
out.
I'd probably say majority ofthe reason that people want to

(25:50):
work with us when it comes tolike that kind of sense is just
because they get so burnt outwith the bureaucratic process of
the other financing parts.
You know it's just when it'sthe difference of, let's say,
three to $4,000, a deal, whenyou're spread on the deal, is
already 50 K, so not even like10% of your profit or whatever.

(26:10):
But you're like I don't evenwant to think about it, my
life's way easier, my life is somuch easier.
I don't have to work on thisLike it's just going to be done.
It allows you to also scale andbuild your operation, but
obviously there's opportunitycosts.
There it's inherently moreexpensive.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
You got to pay for, you know off ease, right, yes,
yeah, yeah, rocky, I think wewant to.
We'd love to get a little bitmore into kind of even deal by
deal.
Would love to hear maybe oneyou're doing right now and help
folks understand.
You know, just for the averagejoe looking in north of
sargansaw, you guys are breakinginto this market, um, you know,
looking to buy a flip.

(26:44):
Maybe they found a, a singlefamily home that they want to
flip.
They're buying it for a goodprice.
What does that look like forthem?
What should they expect?
The whole process?
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (26:54):
It's very easy.
It just comes over in the formof an email, sock to one of our
sales guys on the phone and theycan collect all the data from
you.
We need the purchase price, theaddress, the estimated
construction, the anticipatedARV with comps is super helpful.
From there we just do a quickinitial underwrite.
We're not even going to ask forfinancial documentation yet.
Let us just put our nose to thegrindstone, figure out what we

(27:16):
think about the property, askyou questions Is there any
addition to bed bath, anyaddition to square footage?
Are you changing the floor plan?
Just getting a general idea ofthe strategy.
I think one thing that getsreally lost on people when they
send over deals is they justsend like four items and they're
like here it is.
I'm like it's fine, I'm goingto have to assume a lot of
things here.
I assume things.
You know it's tough, but youknow maybe two to three

(27:39):
sentences of what your overallplan is Like.
The contractor is going to comein.
We're going to tear out thecarpet, put in floors.
That's all super helpful.
Once we do an initialunderwrite, on Mondays,
wednesdays and Fridays, me andmy two partners meet for a loan
committee meeting.
We'll rubber stamp the deal.
So we'll say pending financials, this deal is approved, 100%
financing, whatever we'rewilling to give on it.

(28:02):
So now we go back to theinvestor and say hey, we're
willing to give you 100% ofpurchase and 100% of rehab
pending you sending over yourfinancials.
The base level financials weask for is a personal financial
statement.
Some people have them, somepeople don't.
Completely fine, we can sendover a skeleton.
It takes five minutes to fillin.
It's just assets andliabilities.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Scheduled, purchased, owned and sold.

Speaker 4 (28:23):
The only other document we request is a tax
return.
That's our only legal document.
We need Got to prove you're areal person.
We don't get too worried abouta bunch of the stuff on there.
It's just we need to show youfiled.
That IRS isn't going to comeand try to lean up.
That's really it.
We'll do a soft credit score.
We don't want to affectanyone's credit score.

(28:43):
I don't understand why hardmoney companies do hard credit
pulls.
It gives you the same exactdocument.
Hard credit pulls it gives youthe same exact document.
Right, there's nothingdifferent about the documents,
and the main thing that we willlook at on credit reports, just
to be very transparent, is, ofcourse, you know like.
One of my business partners hasthis amazing list.
He started lending in 2009 or2010.

(29:07):
He said he'd way rather workwith the guy in 2011, or, sorry,
2013, that had the 480 creditscore that just filed for
bankruptcy, and the guy thenthat had a 780 credit score but
filed for bankruptcy in 2008.
He goes one of those guys gaveup right away.
The other tried to claw his wayout of it for five years.
He's like.
That guy has fight.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:27):
This other guy didn't , he's like.
So when you look at a creditscore, it's very subjective, so
we don't get too much in theminutiae of that.
I mean, we have clients whowe've done 20 deals with who has
a 512 credit score.
That's crazy.
Yeah, his wife had cancer andhe went into severe medical debt
and just like Just life.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Right right.

Speaker 4 (29:45):
Life events happen and we're not going to penalize
you for that.
However, sometimes we'll getcredit reports of a guy with a
680 credit score but he's missedhis last three mortgage
payments.
Yeah, like you're not going topay for where you sleep at night
.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
This doesn't mean that to you.

Speaker 4 (30:03):
Right, you know like.
So there's other things that wehave to look at, so looking at
just a number is not necessarilythe best way to analyze a
person's ability to repay you.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Again, thank you guys for tuning in.
I'm going to go ahead and listsome sponsors off here.
We're going to start withWinstone Private Lending.
This episode is brought to youby Winstone Private Lending, one
of the top private and hardmoney lenders now serving
Northwest Arkansas.
Whether you need short-termcapital for a flip a bridge loan
or creative financing, they'vegot you covered with very

(30:34):
flexible products to fit nearlyany deal, including 100%
financing.
What sets them apart is theirdeep expertise, fast response
times and ability to thinkoutside of the box to help
investors like us close quicklyand efficiently.
If you're looking for a reallending partner, check out
Winstone Private Lending.
Link is in the show notes.

(30:56):
Our next sponsor is from FlatBranch Mortgage, specifically
Colton Kennedy.
Colton and I personally dobusiness together and he's a
wonderful lender.
Here in the Northwest Arkansascorridor Want to invest in real
estate or purchase a home butfeel like you need a secret
decoder ring to understand theprocess?
You're not alone.
First-time investors, househackers and future homeowners

(31:17):
Colton Kennedy has you covered.
Colton Kennedy, with FlatBranch Home Loans, helps people
like you break into the realestate market without the
guesswork.
Think of him as your mortgagestrategist, helping you turn I
wish I could into.
I just did.
You bring the vision, he'llbring the lending game plan.
Let's make your firstinvestment, a smart one Colton

(31:37):
Kennedy, with Flat Branch HomeLoans.
Contact him today by calling417-437-0086 or emailing c, as
in Kat k, as in Kimberly,e-n-n-e-d-y at Flat Branch Home
Loans, that's f-b dot com,that's 417-437-0086, or emailing

(32:06):
c, k, e, n, n, e, d, y at f b,h l dot com.
Thank you so, Colton.
So our next sponsorship is 1440photography.
1440 photography is a localcompany here.
I love getting local companiesto sponsor this podcast.
They're local, they do greatservice and personally I can

(32:29):
speak that they do a great jobon mine and my client's stuff.
If you're an investor or agentin Northwest Arkansas, you need
1440 real estate media in yourcorner.
They're not just photographers,they're real estate market
experts and it's the only thingthey do.
Mls photos, drone video,Matterport whatever your listing
needs, they've got it.

(32:50):
Everything is a la carte andit's totally customizable.
And here's the best part Justbook online whenever works for
you.
They confirm and show up readyto go.
Fast, easy done, when qualitymeets speed.
Book now at 1440photographycom.
Our next sponsor is AdvantageTitle and Escrow.

(33:10):
They're a local company.
They do great work,Specifically Kayla Phillips.
I can speak personally on thissponsor because I use Kayla for
all of my transactions.
It's been two, three, fouryears now and Kayla and I have
done a ton of deals.
We probably do between 65 to 80deals a year together and they

(33:30):
do a great job.
The SOPs so systems andprocessing that they have over
at Vantage Title is justincredible.
Systems and processing thatthey have over Advantage Title
is just incredible.
Clients love it.
They do a great job from startto end communicating.
When I give a deal to AdvantageTitle and escrow, I know that
it's going to be taken care of.
There's no second guessing.
I almost am able to treat themlike a second transaction

(33:51):
coordinator to my transactioncoordinator that I already have.
I know that they're going tohandle the systems and processes
correctly as an agent, as ahomeowner, as a buyer or seller.
They do an incredible job ofhandling a transaction and
communicating throughout theprocess.
They do a great job withcommunication, especially Kayla
Phillips over there.
I would highly encourage you,if you're looking to close on a

(34:14):
home, buy a home, if you're anagent listening, to use
Advantage Title and escrow,specifically Kayla Phillips.
So you're going to reach KaylaBest at 501-358-1601, or you can
email her Kayla C-A-Y-L-A atGoAdvantageTitlecom.

(34:37):
Advantage is A-D-V-A-N-T-A-G-Etitlecom.
Our next sponsor is TDSIT.
That's T as in Tim, D as indocument, S as in solution I as
in information, T as intechnology.
This one hits personal.
It's close to home.
My dad, Tim Stanley, runs TDSIT and he decided to sponsor our

(35:03):
podcast, so I can speak frompersonal experience.
I've been able to work for mydad in the past as well and
they're a great, great solutionfor business technology.
If you're a local businessowner, or even out of state, if
you're running a business, needprinters, need information IT
services, If you need phones,scanners, printers all the way

(35:28):
up to your printing books to hey, we just need something in the
office, TDS IT is that spot.
They provide the best inbusiness technology with proven
best in local service and theycan prove it.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Special thanks to one of our sponsors, who I've
worked with personally onmultifamily commercial loans as
well as business acquisitions.
People's Bank works withentrepreneurs, investors,
dealmakers and risk takers.
They're the ones who seeopportunities where others see
obstacles, whether it's a vacantlot with a plan for a thriving
business or making an old spacenew.
They work with creators whothink big and are not satisfied

(36:05):
with the status quo.
People's Bank helps you buildArkansas, deal by deal and brick
by brick.
They don't just see numbers ona spreadsheet, they see your
passion and vision.
People's Bank, it's wherepeople come first.
Member FDIC.
If you're needing loanassistance, reach out to Dakota
at 870-883-1706 or dhedden atpeoplesbankarcom.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
If you enjoyed the show, make sure to give us a
follow on your favorite podcastplatform so you never miss an
update.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Don't forget to connect with us on Instagram,
facebook and LinkedIn for morereal estate insights and behind
the scenes content.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Have a question you want us to cover, send it our
way, and if you're interested insponsoring the show, visit
nwainvestingcom to get in touch.
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next time.
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