October 29, 2025 • 55 mins
Ready to rethink what “smart” real estate growth really looks like? We’re joined by investor-operator Karina Sosa, who started with land splits and a couple of duplexes and scaled into multifamily, commercial, short-term rentals, and development across Northwest Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, and Mexico. Her blueprint blends discipline and creativity: live below your means, stay hands-on until each asset runs smoothly, and use 1031 exchanges and banking relationships to multiply wins without betting the farm.
We dig into the tradeoffs between cash flow and appreciation and how to read the market you’re in, why a modest cash-on-cash in Fayetteville can still be a great buy, and why a Fort Smith deal must cash flow on day one. Karina explains why she moved many units into commercial for lighter day-to-day operations, how in-house maintenance and marketing improved speed and occupancy, and what it takes to stabilize assets quickly after acquisition. She also opens up about short-term rentals, from turning a family home into an Airbnb to using beach properties in Mexico to cover carrying costs while keeping personal flexibility.
Financing and relationships are a through-line here. We talk 1031s, conservative leverage, and how to work with lenders who think creatively, from using portfolio equity for down payments to matching projects with banks that actually want your deal. Karina shares real numbers on deals that moved the needle, and the leadership habits that kept growth sustainable: over-communicate with contractors, answer the phone, reward your team, and partner with people whose strengths offset your weaknesses and whose incentives are truly aligned.
If you’re an investor in NWA or any appreciation market, you’ll walk away with practical ways to build equity, protect downside, and operate with clarity. Subscribe, share this episode with a friend who’s scaling, and leave a quick review to tell us your biggest takeaway. We’d love to hear what you’re building next.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:07):
Welcome to Northwest Arkansas Investing Podcast, your
go-to source for real estateinvesting in Northwest Arkansas.
SPEAKER_02 (00:15):
We bring you expert insights, market trends, and
practical strategies to help youbuild wealth through real
estate.
SPEAKER_04 (00:20):
From buying and selling to property management
and long-term investmentplanning, we cover it all so you
can make smart, informeddecisions in this fast growing
market.
Let's dive in.
Welcome back to NWA InvestingPodcast.
I'm here with my co-host Brian.
And we've got a great guesttoday, Karina Sosa.
She's with us.
She's got a breadth ofexperience, over 25 years of
(00:41):
experience in real estateinvesting.
Um, she's got owner of Sosaproperties and uh and everything
that kind of encompasses that,which we'll get into.
But multifamily, short-termrentals, commercial, industrial,
um, land acquisitions, you nameit, um, across the United States
and Mexico.
And uh, she's got a deepknowledge of uh of just about
(01:02):
every category we can think of,which we're excited to get to
get into and and get to know hera little bit.
But Karina, thanks again forbeing on here with us.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
It's a pleasure.
I'm excited to be here.
SPEAKER_04 (01:12):
Absolutely.
Well, tell uh give us just thekind of a high-level view of of
you and kind of what what gotyou into really your background
a little bit and then what gotyou into to real estate uh in
general.
SPEAKER_01 (01:24):
Well, um honestly, I think like most people, we
started with a couple ofduplexes and um then just
started building up from there,you know, starting acquiring
some single family homes, um,some land, uh, and then pieced
it up and it sold quite nicely.
(01:46):
And um, you know, it just keptsnowballing.
And anytime that we soldanything, we 1031 it into the
next deal.
And it just kept getting biggerand bigger until it became a
full-time job.
But um I've been doing it foryou know 25 years.
Uh when I first started, Iworked a corporate job.
(02:08):
Um, I was at JB Hunt for 16years and then banking for
another six to eight years.
But um, in the meantime, I was,you know, like doing the real
estate, um showing on theweekends in the evening, you
know.
Um I know my kids laugh becauseI have them in the car seat,
(02:29):
like, okay, we're gonna go pickup some rent money and then head
to Chuck E.
Cheese after this, you know.
SPEAKER_05 (02:35):
Like I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:37):
So they kind of like grew up with a lot of that, and
um and through the years, youknow, like you know, those are
the conversations we have at thedinner table.
And um, so they've learned a lotas well, and you know, and we
made some memories along theway.
SPEAKER_03 (02:53):
Yep.
That's amazing.
But um you you were in theoperations, like it's uh not
just like showing for like arealtor, you were showing
prospective residents, and soyou were you were pretty heavy
on operations from myunderstanding.
Is that what you're sayingthere, too?
SPEAKER_01 (03:09):
Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (03:10):
Tell me about that.
Like what what made you youknow, I think it from what I
understand, you know, yourfamily started investing or what
you you started investing, whatmade you get drawn to the
operation side of it versuscarried out?
SPEAKER_01 (03:25):
So um I think it was just honestly, it was like an
opportunity, and then like um myhusband was more like the
visionary of like, oh, you know,like the big picture.
And then, you know, it soundedlike a great idea, and like, you
(03:46):
know, yeah, like, yeah, let'stry it.
But then I was kind of like theone that always like took the
reins and ran with it.
And um, but he was for sure, youknow, like the negotiator, and
um you know, he knew how to picksome winning horses, so that's
(04:08):
awesome.
Yeah, so that was kind of likethe role that he played, and
then I just kind of like ranwith it and you know, did the
day-to-day operations on it.
Um he was heavy inmanufacturing, and you know,
like we had a uh factory goingat the same time.
So we're really busy.
SPEAKER_03 (04:30):
And that was just kind of like, you know, it fell
on my lap and I ran with it andyou know, we uh collaborated a
lot, of course, but yeah, theday-to-day was definitely that's
that's a really good experience,you know, actually leasing it
out and collecting fromresidents, you know.
I'm sure I don't think you dothat today, um, but or or do
(04:51):
you?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
Um I have a I have a team now that you're not
knocking on the doors.
I'm not, but you know, like whenwe acquire a new property, I'm
out there, you know, um meetingnew tenants, getting to know the
property.
So I'm really hands-on.
I I like to kind of know how thewheel turns, you know, every
(05:13):
property's different.
Um so in the beginning, I'mvery, very hands-on, and I am
out on the property oninspecting units and you know,
walking with the contractors andthat kind of thing.
And once I get comfortable withit, um, and you know, I know
kind of how that property'sgonna work, then you know, I'm
(05:34):
not out there as much, but I amvery, very hands-on.
SPEAKER_04 (05:38):
Yeah, I love that.
And then it sounds like uh evenat the beginning, though, doing
all of that was more out ofnecessity, like you're you're
managing your own property andand uh not turning it over to
property management, I assume tomaybe get some extra cash flow,
but also learn kind of thebusiness in general.
Yeah.
I think that's a great, I mean,would you say that's a great
thing for any real estateinvestors as they're getting
(06:00):
started?
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
Absolutely.
Um, I think especially whenyou're getting started, you
know, look, those managementfees will cut into your profits.
So, you know, sometimes peoplewill try it out and it's just
you know, like the cash flowisn't there and then they just
kind of give up.
Uh but when you have control ofthat, um and I mean I also like
(06:23):
you know, I'm not afraid to workwith the contractors and you
know, like do sub a lot of mywork.
Um, so you know, that's a a bigcost savings there.
Um so it was out, you know, likeyou just kind of like make it
work and and then the bigger theprojects get, you know, you have
more negotiating power andpricing and and that kind of
(06:44):
thing.
So you're able to, you know,make it cash flow so much
better.
But yeah, absolutely beinghands-on and knowing your
property and um that way youknow how to run it.
You know, if you if you're notthere, you just absolutely yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:01):
How many units did you have before because you were
you were doing the banking andmanaging, you know, being
property manager hat on andoperations hat on.
How many units till you wentfull time?
Do you remember?
SPEAKER_01 (07:13):
Oh gosh, that's a good question, Brian.
Um I wanna say I think that'swhen we um like really, really
started growing.
And maybe we went because westarted with a lot of
multifamily and then eventuallyjumped into commercial.
Um but I want to say we had atleast 150 doors and then like
(07:38):
swiftly moved up to at least300.
Um, and you know, again, a lotof multifamily.
And um so yeah, I think that'swhen it was like, okay, it's be
it's gonna be a full-time job.
SPEAKER_04 (07:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:53):
And um and we figured, you know, like it was I
was gonna be able to run it moreefficiently, being full-time and
like probably make up for mysalary that I had in the long
term.
And it it pretty much worked outthat way.
SPEAKER_04 (08:08):
Absolutely.
So it sounds like even from thebeginning though, JB Hummet,
y'all started thinking aboutreal estate, maybe stacking some
funds on the side and startingto buy duplexes.
Is that kind of how it startedfor y'all?
SPEAKER_01 (08:20):
Yeah, um, actually, um going back, it started with
we bought some land because wewanted to build a bigger home.
And um, you know, we ended upbuying like several acres.
And um then there was peopleasking, like, is this for sale?
And you know, so we're like,well, we can like split it and
(08:42):
sell this piece, we don't needthat much.
And you know, like we it justkept selling, and we're like,
whoa, like, you know, this thisworked out really well.
And um so then just kind of sawthe opportunity like in real
estate at that point, and thenthere was um some duplexes that
came up for sale, like you know,like down the road from where we
(09:05):
lived, and um it was it wasscary.
That was like our first bigpurchase, and um we um actually
like put part at some of theequity from our home, you know,
like as part of our downpayment.
So so that was scary back then,you know, it's like, oh, but
this is our home.
SPEAKER_05 (09:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:26):
Um, but it worked out it, you know, eventually we
refinanced it, you know, on itsown and that kind of thing.
And um, and then yeah, it justkind of took off from there and
you know, did you know, flippeda few homes and um just then
moved on to the multifamily fromthe single family and um
(09:48):
commercial and Airbnbs and umand then my husband's company
took us to um Mexico and so wekind of continued, which that
was pretty exciting to um, youknow, to continue the real
estate over there and it it youknow it's different but the same
(10:09):
at the same time, but um so wedid some started developing
there and uh invested in somelike beach properties and did
Airbnbs and so a lot of growthfor sure.
SPEAKER_03 (10:25):
Yeah, to 150 and 300 units.
Are you guys using the how didyou capitalize?
Was that yeah, the family'sfunds, or did you start raising
capital at that point, or youpretty much you guys own capital
from uh other deals and the themanufacturing business?
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
Um, so honestly, like really the secret to how we
got started is is we we bothworked really hard, but we lived
below our means.
Like we we didn't spend a lot,we were in a smaller home.
Uh we never bought a brand newcar.
(11:02):
Uh, but all you know, instead ofhaving a car payment and like a
huge mortgage, we were takingthat money and investing it in
real estate.
SPEAKER_03 (11:10):
That's so big, yeah, for especially for beginner,
like people just getting startedwhen they first get their first
taste of success, you know, it'sit can be tempting to like spend
that, but you'll get such abigger snowball effect if you
just do let live below yourmeans and invest, invest that
difference, and and you'll beable to scale a lot faster, from
(11:31):
what I've seen.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (11:33):
Yep.
Absolutely, absolutely.
I think I think too, just Imean, obviously uh having a
career that can provide uh, youknow, that I think that would be
for most people should be thefirst focus is to find a good
career that they can start tostack away.
And then then again, I thinkthat advice is really strong of
just living below your means andand uh and then being able to
(11:54):
kind of make it happen,especially in northwest
Arkansas, in a place whereobviously prices continue to
rise and it continues to becomemore and more difficult.
Uh capital is going to beimportant, obviously, to have,
and both of you know that.
SPEAKER_03 (12:06):
So what markets were those, by the way, to uh
northwest Arkansas, I think FortSmith, what what kind of markets
were you guys targeting then?
SPEAKER_01 (12:15):
Um I mean, obviously we just started here in
Northwest Arkansas because youknow, I mean, like we lived here
and it was convenient and thatkind of thing.
And then um, you know, we didFort Smith and um and then as
prices have continued to go up,we um did find some good deals
in um in Texas and Oklahoma.
SPEAKER_05 (12:38):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
So uh in the Oklahoma, we still have a little
bit there, but it's just it's somuch easier to have it here.
SPEAKER_04 (12:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
But um, you know, there's still good deals.
SPEAKER_04 (12:50):
So yeah.
So tell tell me about your kindof as you guys were getting
started, obviously you startedin duplexes and maybe some
single family, but what was theapproach as y'all were starting
to buy property and then tell mea little bit how that's
transitioned?
I know you've done a little bitof everything, but what was it
just looking for cash floworiginally, or was it looking
for um, you know, we'respecifically looking at
(13:13):
multifamily.
What what was that approach wheny'all were first looking at at
deals?
SPEAKER_01 (13:17):
Um yeah, obviously we were like interested in um,
you know, acquiring assets andhaving some passive cash flow
coming in, you know.
Um I think in the beginning wenever thought it would turn into
something, you know, like thisbig or full time.
Um and we hung on to most of ourstuff as the years went by.
(13:41):
Like if we sold anything, it wasalways like to upgrade to
something like bigger or like wesold a lot of the multifamily
to, you know, acquirecommercial, um that kind of
thing.
But I think another importantthing for investors to remember
too, it's like you you don'tjust want to build your cash
flow, you want to build your networth.
(14:04):
So, you know, you hang on tothings, uh, you get lines of
credits on them.
You can still use your equity,but you're building your net
worth as you go along.
SPEAKER_03 (14:12):
And is that part of the thought process?
Before we started recording, wewere talking, Karina, about a
develop, you know, commercialflex development that you're in
the pro.
Is that the thought process toowith development?
You know, it's not cash flowing,but you're building the equity
that way.
SPEAKER_01 (14:28):
Yeah, and that's another thing that I've learned.
Like sometimes, you know, like Ifeel like people get really
closed-minded because they'relike, oh, this thing doesn't
really cash flow, like it's onlygonna make thousand dollars a
month.
Like, yeah, today, but like evenif you're not like cash flowing
huge, like it's gonnaappreciate, and like before you
(14:50):
know it, you've made 200k, youknow.
Um, so it's not always um I knowlike I remember we bought, and
you know, I'm kind of datingmyself.
This is like back in like 2007,eight, and um when the whole
real estate market went down,and we had just purchased a
(15:11):
house in Springdale for 120,which back then that was kind of
a lot.
And we're like, oh man, we gotstuck with this, you know, like
but I mean, I was able to rentit and we, you know, it made the
mortgage.
I I can't remember, I think Iwas making like I don't know, a
couple hundred bucks cash flow,like nothing major, but it you
(15:31):
know, it paid the mortgage andthe taxes and insurance and kind
of thing.
But then when we did sell it,like I think we doubled our
price, you know.
So it's it's a funny, you know,like don't don't let stuff like
that scare you away sometimes.
And then building, I think, um Imean that's always scary because
(15:52):
it's something brand new, butum, I think in new development,
um, and I know Brian, you'regetting into that.
Um, it's it's not gonna be rightoff the bat, but it'll happen.
Like before you know it, likeyou're you know, the cash flow
is coming in, and so you sustainit for a little bit and then it,
(16:13):
you know, the equity goes up.
SPEAKER_04 (16:15):
Absolutely.
I think that's a great pointthough, too, because especially
in Northwest Arkansas, it, youknow, oftentimes rents, rents
are continuing to rise over overtime, but oftentimes it is just
harder to find cash flowingdeals nowadays.
But I think in general, asinvestors, if you're looking for
deal, if you're buying dealsright, let's say for a value add
(16:36):
opportunity, if you're buyingdeals right with instant equity,
that's a big win.
If you're building somethingthat can that you're building
instant equity, um, another bigwin.
So I think as investors, it's uhyou know, cash flow doesn't tell
the full story, like you said.
And but maybe as as people arestarting, that might be you know
something that they're a littlebit closed-minded about.
(16:56):
Um but oftentimes, you know,those opportunities could
springboard you into a bigopportunity that you know could
could do the get the cash flowthat you want or need or
anything like that.
SPEAKER_03 (17:06):
You definitely have to look at it, the whole
picture, you know, not like yousaid, just be closed-minded.
You're looking at a I mean,especially in NWA, you know,
where it is uh more of aappreciation market than a cash
flow market.
Whereas Fort Smith, if I'mbuying something in Fort Smith,
I can't count on the I need tothat cash flow that you know, I
better be cash flowing becauseI'm not gonna get the
appreciation on the back end.
(17:27):
But you know, if you comparethat to NWA, I better be getting
some good appreciation if I'mgiving up some cash flow.
So I think it's important tolook at the whole picture, not
get stuck on cat, you know, cashon cash number, or don't get
stuck on your cap rate, or don'tget stuck on IRR.
I think it's important to lookat the you know the whole
picture.
And exactly and also to what ifyou're buying right, you can
(17:50):
weather, you know, a certainstore where you might have not
as much cash flow as youthought, or you're not able to
sell right away, like you did inin Springdale.
SPEAKER_01 (17:59):
And and one thing that luckily in this area, like
there's a renter for every typeof property.
SPEAKER_04 (18:06):
True.
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
Um, we had bought a lake house, and you know, being
in the in the in this industry,like if you had a uh an empty
property, like it just bothersyou, you know, like for sure.
Um but you know, we you justdon't think like, oh, I can't
and this was before Airbnb, sothat wasn't really a thing.
(18:27):
And um and besides that, I thinkour HOA didn't allow like
short-term rentals for likevacations and stuff.
But we actually got we foundlike we were like, well, let's
just put it up for rent and seewhat happens.
It's just sitting there, like,and um and we had a family that
like came and like literallywrote us a check for the whole
(18:51):
entire year, and theyhomeschooled their kids and you
know, they wanted to be by thewater, and the dad traveled, so
the mom was gonna be there, andit was like, yeah, like you
know, yeah, there's someone forevery property.
SPEAKER_03 (19:07):
That's a great point.
Being that close attendants,too, you you don't get that get
to feel that too if you're notas in touch with uh the property
management.
But on the other side, you alsodon't get that, you know,
there's as many good stories asthat, there's some bad stories.
You know, bad tenants out thereto know that.
SPEAKER_04 (19:26):
All all I've heard about, just speaking of those
bad stories, my my dad used toown a fourplex down in downtown
Bidenville, Riding His SkylightTheater now.
Um, and he talked, he managedeverything himself back in the
day.
And he lived in Springdale, anduh he would have to meet all the
tenants up there and show themthe property and stuff like
that.
He just kept getting stood up upthere, and then he had somebody
that was growing marijuana inthe closet, and he was just
(19:50):
like, I'm just gonna sell it,and then you know, we know what
happens now years later, yeah,20 years later, or whatever.
So he's kicking himself overthat.
But I think that's just a funnyuh kind of experience when it
comes to managing your own,especially in the beginning.
SPEAKER_01 (20:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's a lot of that, so it'sthere's never a dull moment, and
now I just kind of look at itlike, okay, um, you know, it's
part of the part of the plainreal estate, like there's highs
and lows and good stories toshare later down the road.
SPEAKER_03 (20:21):
Absolutely.
Do do you utilize third-partyproperty management now, or do
you have in-house, or does ithave to be no, I still
everything's in-house.
SPEAKER_04 (20:30):
Just has the has a team.
So yeah, I I'd love to I'd loveto get a little bit more into
that too.
SOSA properties in in general.
Uh, I know we've talked throughsome of these items that are
some of these kind of areas ofexpertise that you have now in
commercial.
Obviously, you've donemultifamily, single family, um,
short-term rentals, even Mexicoand maybe here.
(20:51):
I don't know, we can talk aboutthat too.
But um, and then there's aproperty management side, I
guess, side or team part of itas well.
Give us just kind of an overviewof social properties in general
on uh what that looks like fory'all.
SPEAKER_01 (21:04):
Um, yeah, so again, like I'm very, very involved.
You know, it's like myday-to-day operations.
Um and I think because I did itfor by myself for so long, like
I have, you know, like a a smallteam.
Sometimes I I think I probablyneed a few more people.
Um you know, like we're justreally close knit and like every
(21:28):
day, you know, I know what'sgoing on, and you know,
communication is key.
Um and it helps having your ownmaintenance team that you can,
you know, like on the you know,one phone call and you can send
them here or there and um nothave to wait on somebody else to
put you in, that kind of thing.
(21:50):
Um and just you know, marketingand scheduling showings and you
know, like keeping everythingfull to the best of our ability.
Collections and accounting andabsolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (22:06):
So on the property management side, is uh is there
an arm that's uh outside of theunits that you're involved in?
So I guess are you managingunits for other investors out
there as well?
SPEAKER_01 (22:18):
Um so I only manage my stuff.
I do have partners that I'vegone into with on some deals.
Uh and I do the asset managementon that side, but um I only
manage the stuff that like onpart owner um I don't do for you
(22:40):
know like for other people.
SPEAKER_04 (22:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a big I think that yeah,that's super smart.
So uh as far as you know, and Iknew uh I I love that piece.
I mean, that's a great for thosethat are you know thinking about
doing uh or have a portfoliothat they're managing
themselves.
I think that's a great uh somegreat learnings to kind of
continue to get into deals.
Uh maybe there's a partnershipaspect that folks can kind of
(23:05):
help the management side and beable to get a you know get into
more deals if that makes sense.
But uh as far as other arms ofof social properties,
short-term, I mean, get helphelp us understand as far as
short-term rentals and and somethings like that.
It that's an area that wehaven't talked about much, but
what where did that kind of uhstem from, I guess, originally?
SPEAKER_01 (23:28):
Um so originally when we moved to Mexico, we had
our our family home that youknow we really didn't want to
sell.
And um we'd kind of, you know,we'd come and go because
obviously, you know, we stillhad business here as well.
Um so we turned our house intoan Airbnb.
And it was like um veryconvenient because when we knew
(23:51):
we were gonna be in town, youknow, I'd block off that week
and we'd get to stand the houseand then we were done.
We'd pack up and you know.
SPEAKER_05 (24:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:01):
Um and it's a bigger home set was nice, like for it's
in Fayetteville for footballweekends, you know.
It was, you know, when familiescame down at graduation and um,
you know, any events at theuniversity.
So it worked really well.
Um and then, you know, we hadsome vacation properties in
(24:22):
Mexico too that you know we onlyused occasionally.
So having them on Airbnb, youknow, we were still, you know,
making money to pay the HOA duesand the maintenance and the pool
and landscaping and that kind ofthing.
SPEAKER_04 (24:38):
So makes sense.
So it really kind of startedwith the personal home.
Yeah.
And they kind of I guessexpanded from there and kind of
looked at opportunities.
You said you mentioned maybe onthe beach down there in Mexico
as well, stuff like that.
And then any any others arounduh the United States or anywhere
else that y'all expand down?
SPEAKER_01 (24:57):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04 (24:58):
Yep.
So I guess uh help me continueto understand the timeline here
because you've been in so much.
I'm I'm trying to keep it allstraight.
So small multifamily start, somesingle family, maybe short-term
rental was before after when youstarted to get in into more
commercial deals.
But where when did thecommercial piece kind of start
being a part of socialproperties business plan?
SPEAKER_01 (25:19):
Um, it was probably around 2017, 16 or 17.
Um that's when we moved out ofthe country.
And with multifamily, you know,it's like you're, you know,
babysitting, you know, like 50families and you know, like 50
uh fridges and you know that canpossibly go out or what have
(25:43):
you.
So we were like, okay, like umcommercials not as hands-on, you
know, like it is in thebeginning, you know, you're
you're trying to like if there'sa build out or you know, things
like that.
But once they're in, they'rekind of in and on their own.
And on the commercial side, thenice thing is like they're um
(26:04):
responsible for most of theirmaintenance.
Like obviously we do like theroots and you know, like uh big
HVAC um stuff like that,landscaping.
But um so we started selling offmultifamily and then 1030 went
again to the commercial, and itworked, you know, like once we
(26:25):
got the units filled, you know,like the tenants were kind of on
their own.
So we were able to like back offon like as much maintenance and
you know, like day-to-day up.
I mean, obviously it was still,you know, you keep up with it,
but not as tedious.
Um, so that's that's kind of howwe got into that.
SPEAKER_03 (26:45):
20 2016, 2017.
That's when I bought my first 12unit in Springdale.
Guess what I bought it from.
I love it.
That's right.
That was right around that time.
Was this a letter, a cold call,or how did we know it was uh
Chris Vega shut out.
Uh broker, yeah, brokerrelation.
Um, I still talked to him.
(27:05):
Um, but yeah, just we uh theyhad it on the market, and then
if you know, I wasn't quickenough, and then it fell off the
market.
And I think the previous buyerhad fallen out of contract, and
I was like, hey, I'm ready toget, you know, I saw this is
available.
And we met at the property andthen closed it and then beloved
it.
Yeah, that was my first ventureinto multifamily and it was good
(27:29):
process.
And later, actually, my firstdeal in Fort Smith was a 59
unit, and they were the sellerstogether.
Oh no, what's just a couple ofthat's awesome.
Maybe a year and a half later orso, maybe two years later.
SPEAKER_04 (27:41):
But below it's so yeah, just just speaking on that
too, uh as far as the deals go.
I'd love to, I mean, as much asyou want to share, don't want to
share, but uh tell tell us aboutany deal that stands out along
your uh along your timeline asfar as either your favorite deal
or maybe a deal that kind of wasyour big break, you know, from
start to finish.
(28:02):
What what did that look like andwhat kind of property was it?
Stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01 (28:08):
Um wow.
You know, it's been like thegrowth has been so organically
that um and I'm a bigmultitasker, so it's like even
even though we had thecommercial, we still had some
multifamily, and then we're likestarting developing in Mexico
(28:29):
and um the Airbnb.
So it all kind of ties intogether.
So it's hard to say, like, youknow, like, oh, and then I
jumped into this.
SPEAKER_03 (28:37):
It was like what's the most amount of money you
made on a single, what's likethe best deal you've done that
as far as like return on money,and then maybe is there any
worst one?
Um how was of the 59 unit or the12 unit I bought from you guys?
Do you remember that one?
Yeah, the yacht humanity.
SPEAKER_01 (28:59):
You guys have to I don't remember the amount.
SPEAKER_03 (29:04):
Um I think the 12 unit I bought for like 500 or
595, 500 or 595, and then 59unit, maybe like two point
something, or a little underthree million or so.
SPEAKER_01 (29:16):
Yeah, I don't let me I'm trying to think like which
one was like the biggest.
Um I mean that was one of thebigger complexes that we had um
that we did well on, but I thinkI think the biggest one was or
the biggest uh one that weprofited on was probably
Rivendell and and Rogers.
SPEAKER_03 (29:37):
I don't know if you remember that one how many units
what you buy for what you sellfor?
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
That one had 33 units, and we bought it right at
a million.
I do yeah, it's that's great.
And that was our big likemillion dollar purchase.
You know, like everything hasbeen in like the hundred
thousands, and that was like Ohmy gosh, like it's a million
dollars.
You know?
SPEAKER_05 (30:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:03):
Um and but it's funny how like you you grow and
and like this last deal that weclosed on in March, it was close
to 10 million, it was like ninemillion.
And um when my partner calledand said, like, you're not gonna
believe this, like um we got itunder contract.
(30:25):
Cause you know, it's a lot ofgoing back and forth of like,
well, what about this price,what about that price?
And it's like both of ourstomachs just sank, like, oh my
gosh, like we're really doingthis, yeah.
Like we're really doing this,and um, but then you just kind
of like grow into it.
Yeah, but on on back toRivendell, I uh that one sold
(30:48):
for 3.2, 3.4, something likethat.
SPEAKER_03 (30:52):
Nice, yeah.
Amazing.
That's awesome.
And that you use that when youpurchased it, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (30:57):
I mean um, so yeah, we did.
Um, but we were also always veryconservative.
Like we we usually always didlike 20% down.
So we always had room, you know,like we never felt that helped a
lot too.
Like you're not stressed out oflike, oh, this is gonna be
(31:18):
tight.
Like there was always like goodroom there.
SPEAKER_04 (31:21):
So it could sustain itself, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (31:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (31:25):
I love it.
Well, what about any any uniquedeals come to mind as far as,
you know, have you been a partof any that owner has seller
finance a deal or or uh anyanything unique like that that
stands out that you you canremember on any deals?
SPEAKER_01 (31:40):
You know, we've we were very fortunate we had
really good uh bankingrelationships.
And because we had such a bigportfolio, it was like we used
that equity.
Like that was really how wegrew.
It you know, like um we hung onto everything and and built the
equity, and then we would justlike, yeah, we'll put this one
(32:02):
as a second and like use that asyour down payment.
So um that was really whathelped us grow quickly with you
know, like sell stuff and pullcash out and that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03 (32:18):
So got more creative with the the lenders with the
lenders, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:22):
Smart, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:24):
So just as as far as your your strategy and kind of
your philosophy moving forwardnow and kind of where you're at
in your career, for you, I mean,when did it, you know, for a lot
of people like Brian is I wecan't say you're specifically
multifamily because I know yougot some storage and some other
stuff, but Brian is almostexclusively multifamily.
A lot of others would say thatthey're you know pretty niche in
(32:47):
what they do.
Uh but you you have a breadth ofthings.
And so um for you, I mean, wasthat ever was it ever a thought
to to try to be niche into acertain category or are you
chased opportunities in general?
And and when do you think that'syou know, do you think that's a
good strategy for most peopleout there?
SPEAKER_01 (33:03):
Um for me, it was like, yeah, if there's an
opportunity there, like exploreit, you know, like don't be like
shut off, like, oh yeah, that'snot for me.
And um, but again, I'm amultitasker, so that doesn't
bother me.
And I'm sure some people itwould drive them crazy.
Um, and then like there's alsolike a really creative side of
(33:25):
me that, you know, like um, youknow, like I wanted to build,
and you know, like when I was inMexico, it was, you know, very
affordable to have a staff withlike an architect and and all of
that.
So that was a lot of fun becauseyou you I had an architect like
right next to me, and we're likeum, you know, like designing
(33:46):
homes and you know, like umbuilding them, and you know, so
it was like I got to do a lot ofinput there and and you know,
like the creativity of that.
So that was I think that wasprobably my favorite.
SPEAKER_04 (34:00):
I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (34:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (34:02):
Um and then yeah, I think I think just as far as you
know, looking at you youmentioned kind of how you
approached a lot of these dealsreally in a more conservative
lens.
Um, you know, again, I go backto Brian because you got you
guys are my two examples here.
But uh, I know Brian, when youwere getting started, there's as
much leverage as possible withwith growth.
(34:23):
It sounds like with y'all therewas you know kind of a
conservative, you know, put 20%down, or or really kind of, you
know, I I'm sure there weretimes too where there was more
leverage, but uh is that astrategy?
I know I'd love to hear your uhtake on your side as well, but
is that a strategy you wouldrecommend for for most investors
out there, as especially intoday's market?
(34:44):
I know that requires morecapital, but I'd love your
thoughts there.
SPEAKER_01 (34:47):
Right.
Well, that's hard to deal withlike today's rates, you know,
um, and the pricing, you know,of real estate right now.
But um I think really the thekey to you know somebody that
wants to start investing is likehave a stable income that you
(35:08):
know like you feel confidentbecause then you're able to take
risk and not, you know, likeit's not gonna ruin your
marriage, it's not gonna, youknow, like um so when you have a
stable income, like you knowevery two weeks your checks
gonna be in the bank and youknow what your you know monthly
you know debt is, and and thenanything extra, like um, you
(35:31):
know, we'd get excited, and youknow, instead of like you know,
purchasing a new car, it's like,oh, we found this like rental
house, and you know, like we canredo this and redo that, and
then you just like get excitedabout it, and you know, you're
shopping, but you're shoppingfor real estate.
And um, so I mean, I knowthere's like Brian did, he got
(35:56):
really creative, like with someseller financing, and you know,
like that's a great way to doit.
Like personally, I you know, Ididn't experience that, but um I
know with my partners now wehave uh used a little bit of
that, like maybe like the firstcouple of years, you you know,
do some owner financing at alower rate because of the way
(36:19):
the interest rates are.
So that's definitely a way toapproach deals in today's
market.
SPEAKER_04 (36:25):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (36:26):
Um and then, you know, like you know, banks can
be creative too.
Like if they know that there'spotential in the project, like
don't be afraid to, you know,leverage it a little more.
And you know, they're not gonnaspread themselves too thin, but
you there's ways to to make itwork.
SPEAKER_03 (36:46):
That's great.
Yeah, I love that mindset too oflike, you know, you you
mentioned it earlier, livingbelow your means and investing
the difference.
And instead of getting excitedabout a new car, you're getting
excited about a rental company.
So absolutely definitelyrecommend having a partner or a
spouse that has a sayingalignment.
You know, they don't have to bein the business with you, but
making sure they're on the samepage as you with that, like just
(37:09):
because our means increasedoesn't mean we're we're out to
spend like we can invest this,we can really you're gonna have
even more means to spend.
And I think, you know, theleverage piece, I I levered up a
lot in the beginning, especiallywhen it was my own money, you
know, because I knew I had thatstable income too.
You know, I wasn't like I wasliving below my means and I had
(37:32):
income above and beyond what myexpenses were.
So I knew like I could, if worsecomes to work, like that was
kind of my reserves.
My reserves was my my debt to myglobal debt to income ratio.
My reserves was I'll work mybutt off and put it towards a
property if something badhappens, and I'll just work and
work extra and put that extraincome to the so that was kind
(37:52):
of my reserve.
So I think you know, havingsmart leverage is is important.
Like I still like to, it dependson the investment.
I have some investors that, youknow, would prefer to be uh put
more into it, but some investorsare like, I'm I want to get the
highest return on equity.
You know, I'm not as concernedabout cash flow, you know, I'm
okay with the extra risk ifwe're accounting for it for
(38:15):
extra, you know, that higherdebt payment that you have with
that higher leverage.
But sometimes you can getcreative with the sellers and
maybe you're not paying themany, maybe it's full accrual.
Like, you know, maybe it's hey,I'm I'm giving you more on the
purchase price and I'm givingyou an interest rate on that,
but it's gonna be paid at aballoon payment.
So you're not the sacrificingyour cash flow.
(38:37):
Not all sellers will do that,you know.
I try to get you guys to juicethemselves in there, like not
Litz and will do it.
So it depends.
I think it's a tool, I thinkit's a tool in the toolbox.
Like it's not that shouldn't beyour only tool in the toolbox,
but it can be another way ofgetting a deal done.
Same thing, you know, Karina'sphilosophy of you know, not
(38:58):
being closed-minded, like beingopen to deals, especially with
you honing in more on NWA, wasyou had a lot of success in the
duplex as a multifamily, but tostay in NWA, you were you will
had to be open-minded to look atthese other opportunities to
have more tools to place yourequity and grow it.
SPEAKER_01 (39:16):
Yeah.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_04 (39:17):
Absolutely.
I I think one one thing I had aquestion about just from uh what
what you mentioned earlier wasjust banking relationships in
general and how that's changedover time.
What what did that look likewhen you guys were first
starting out?
You probably were uh maybeputting a a a typical amount
down 20 to 25 percent orwhatever on your duplexes, but
(39:39):
um as time has gone on andportfolio has grown, how are the
how have those relationshipschanged for you?
SPEAKER_01 (39:45):
Um I I guess giving you a little bit of background
too that I think helped is uhbecause I did work in banking
and I worked uh I did secondarymarket mortgage funds.
And um you had to get reallycreative.
Like if your debt to incomeratio is too high, um, you know,
(40:06):
like how can we get that down?
And you know, being in banking,I'd be, you know, I'd talk to my
clients and I'd be like, well,let's refinance your car and
your boat and your credit cardinto one loan, and then you just
have one big payment instead ofthree or four, you know, uh, and
and that'll bring it, and thenwe get the ratio down, and then
(40:26):
we'll make that work.
And so I don't know, like Ialways had kind of that mindset
of like how can we make it workinstead of like how it's not
gonna work.
SPEAKER_04 (40:39):
Yeah.
So that's a problem solversmindset.
That's right.
Gotta have in real estate.
And then too, I mean, I I knowif for I mean, for those out
there that are just kind ofgetting started and and uh, you
know, maybe are looking tocreate some banking
relationships.
Um in your experience, has itbeen beneficial to you know to
(41:00):
have one that you really trustand lean on, or is it has it
been f beneficial for you tohave multiple that that can
really treat you in differentways and maybe want different
product and stuff like that?
What how has that kind ofevolved?
SPEAKER_01 (41:12):
Yeah, so you're always gonna have kind of that
one that you usually like go tofirst.
Um, but then there's gonna be afew times when they're like, oh,
I wish I could do that, but I,you know, um, or somebody's
trying to earn your business andthey have a better rate and you
know, better product.
And, you know, if you have agood relationship, you know,
they'll be like, no, you knowwhat, I understand, like that is
(41:34):
a better deal.
I can't match it, but like,yeah, I would take it.
Um, so you know, no hardfeelings there, you know, and
then always, you know, come backand offer them and um, you know,
like again, open-minded.
So you're not always gonna justbe able to work with one because
there's different products,different rates, you know, and
(41:56):
every bank is in a differentsituation where like maybe one
needs more deposits and oneneeds to do more loans, and so
it's different markets and youknow, the different, you know,
stage that they're at.
So um, but I have my favorites.
SPEAKER_04 (42:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's why family.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think, I mean, again, Ithink bankers, we've talked
about this before, but bankersand lenders are some of your
biggest partners in the deal,obviously.
And so uh having people that arelooking after your back and that
can, you know, will go to batfor you as well on deals that
you know are good deals thatmaybe others uh don't see the
(42:36):
vision.
So I think that's superimportant.
Um for you all, socialproperties, uh what what does
the future look look like foryou all?
What is, you know, what are youhoping that the next five to ten
years looks like um in thebusiness?
SPEAKER_01 (42:51):
So um now I'm starting to work on like bigger
deals, you know, with partnersthat syndicated deals.
Um I I'd like to do some moredevelopment like on the building
side, just because I like Ireally enjoy that.
Um I know that um likeFayetteville has a need for
(43:12):
single family homes.
And um so I'm um I would like todabble into some of that.
Um, you know, not nothing big,just kind of like um, I don't
know, get my feet wet and seehow that goes.
One or two homes here and there.
Um but uh yeah, just the otherthing about, you know, like
(43:34):
everything that I had done up tothis point was, you know, just
within the family.
And and now that I, you know,I've partnered up, like you can
grow even bigger.
And um, and honestly, it'sactually nice to have that
support of, you know, like, hey,we got this going on, and you
know, we have a team of peoplethat have the same interest
(43:59):
because you know, when when theyown the property too, like we
all have the same goal in mind,you know.
So we're working in synergy andum, you know, like you're able
to like grow even faster.
SPEAKER_03 (44:13):
Absolutely.
So any advice and on that, anyadvice on partnering up with the
right people?
SPEAKER_01 (44:19):
Absolutely.
So one thing that I've learned,it's like we all have our
strength and weaknesses.
So like you want to findsomebody that you're, you know,
they have the strength that isyour weakness and so forth.
And obviously, you know, likegood communication,
transparency, and um, you know,being aligned.
(44:44):
Because as long as you'realigned on your goal and you you
both have, you know, you want toreach the same, you know, end in
mind, like you're you're gonnamake it happen.
SPEAKER_03 (44:56):
Yeah, and I think being aligned too is is how you
struck and how you structurethat partnership.
One, like to your point, likethe the strengths and weaknesses
have to line up and having thesame goal and vision.
But, you know, if someone isjust fee-based and they don't
have any equity, they they maynot be as aligned to continue to
(45:16):
perform, you know.
So I think it's important, youknow, with your part, you know,
my partners I like to see haveequity in the deal too.
SPEAKER_01 (45:25):
Yeah, absolutely, because then you're all you know
on the same team and you know,like we're all you know, going
for that uh touchdown.
SPEAKER_04 (45:36):
Absolutely.
I love that.
We've got just a couple otherquestions I'd I'd love to get
your your thoughts on as as wekind of wrap up here.
But what would be your someadvice that you would have for a
new or inspired aspiringinvestor in Northwest Arkansas?
SPEAKER_01 (45:52):
Um I think uh if that's what you you know, if
that's what you really want todo, like enjoy the process.
Like, you know, we're talkingearlier, like don't look at it
as a job, like oh, a chore, likeget excited, like, oh, you know,
I get to go buy this duplex, youknow, and and you know, like and
(46:14):
I think one philosophy that Ifeel like I try to live by, it's
like, how can I make thisbetter?
And like you walk into it, andlike obviously it's not rental
properties aren't always likethe shiniest and per things, but
you know, you can do so manythings to them and make them
better and like you know,inexpensive ways.
(46:34):
And um, so it's like you walkin, it's like, oh, what's the
potential here?
And um, you know, like play withit, have fun, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (46:45):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (46:46):
Oh, yeah, great advice on living life in general
too.
Absolutely.
I love that perspective.
And then just what what are somesome key habits or practices
that you've uh you know, thatyou've acquired over the years
that have that you think haveled to your success?
SPEAKER_01 (47:03):
So I think communication is key.
Um I learned that like veryearly on, you know, especially
like in properties where you'relike, yeah, uh this is the color
we're gonna we're gonna paint.
And then you walk in and they'vepainted this mustard yellow.
And it's like, no, no, that'sthe fucking.
(47:25):
Um so I've I've learned to justlike communicate exactly what I
need or what I want, uh, becauseeverybody wants to do a good
job, but if you don'tcommunicate correctly, then you
know they're not gonna have thatinformation to pull through for
you.
And then frustration comes in.
So like the more that you cancommunicate, and uh especially
(47:47):
when it comes to like remodelsand stuff like that, I try to
over-communicate and um and likemake yourself accessible, you
know.
Like if they if they call, pickup the phone.
It may be just a you know, shortquestion that can save you
hundreds, thousands of dollars,you know, because they don't
(48:07):
know what direction to go.
And then two, like you're gonnaslow the process because maybe
they can't start without youapproving this or what have you.
So communication, and then likeat the end of the day, it's like
the team around you that makesyou.
So um I think just having goodrelationships with the people
(48:29):
that you work with and um Ithink being, you know, grateful
and appreciative, I think we allkind of like get in a grind, but
um you know, like telling peoplelike, oh, you're doing a great
job when they are, because youknow, like we just don't say it
(48:50):
enough.
So just encouraging them, youknow, and I tell a lot of people
like I think managing a team tofor me, it's like just being a
mom, you know, like, hey, didyou do your homework?
Let me let me check yourhomework and like and then when
they need encouragement, likeyou got this, like you know,
like um, or just like well, talkto me, what's going on, and you
(49:14):
know, like finding out a youknow, like, okay, well, what can
we do to make it better?
Or if that didn't work, whatwill?
So just you know, buildingpeople up.
I think when you when you buildthem up, they're gonna build you
up, you know.
Um, you don't realize it at thetime, but that's the way it
always works out.
SPEAKER_04 (49:33):
Absolutely.
Like, yeah, I love that.
That's that's great leadershipadvice.
And and uh overall, I think ifanybody wants to to grow or have
a team, or even I mean, greatadvice you can use within your
family, building one another upand and uh you know, just kind
of loving on one each other oneanother and you know, giving
each other uh kind of some ofthose encouragements.
(49:54):
And then uh I like what you saidtoo about communication.
Um, I mean, such an importantthing in real estate in any
category in real estate.
I mean, I think a lot of peoplewould be surprised at what
picking up the phone, how farthat goes.
SPEAKER_01 (50:07):
Yeah, it really does.
Uh, and then you want to be agood listener because some, you
know, like all your questionswill get answered if you're just
listening.
And um, I think that's mostimportant, like listen and then
gather your information and thenand you know, because a lot of
times it's perspective too.
(50:28):
Like they're looking at it fromone lens, and then but if you
listen, then you realize, like,oh, I see where they're coming
from.
And you're able to, you know,find a solution.
And then you work in harmony,and there's nothing better than
that.
SPEAKER_03 (50:44):
Absolutely.
Amazing advice, yeah.
And that's uh it's the it's thethe woman perspective, like
having the gratitude, halistening, and like you know,
having the empathy.
And I think that's if you canuse that, that's uh it can
really be beneficial in realestate and makes it more fun.
SPEAKER_01 (51:01):
It does.
And and you know, like when youappreciate people, they
appreciate you.
And I mean, like, I don't knowhow many times I've called and
like, hey, I'm in a jam, likeyou know, got this big leak
going, like, you know, I'll beright there, you know, just
stuff that you know, like makesyou yeah.
Um, so but you know, whateveryou put out, that's what you get
(51:25):
back.
SPEAKER_04 (51:26):
Absolutely.
So I love that.
So for anybody that's listeningand wants to get in touch with
you or or reach out, maybe withany questions, what where's a
good place?
Maybe they can email you or orreach out to to get connected
with you.
SPEAKER_01 (51:40):
Yeah, so um, I think I'm not big on social media.
SPEAKER_04 (51:44):
Uh that's a good thing.
Yeah, that's good.
SPEAKER_01 (51:47):
Uh I do have a LinkedIn page.
Uh that's probably the one thatI kind of like visit the most.
Um so you know that would be agood one.
SPEAKER_03 (51:57):
Perfect.
Um Karina says uh at LinkedIn.
SPEAKER_01 (52:01):
I don't like um yeah, in my emails, Karina at
Sosa Properties.net.
SPEAKER_04 (52:05):
So awesome.
Yeah.
Well, Karina, we're superthankful that uh that you spent
some time with us.
I know your time is valuable andand uh there's a lot of great
nuggets in here, and and uhyou've just got such a breadth
of of experience, short-termrentals, multifamily, single
family commercial.
Um, and we're just pumped thatwe got to to have you today.
So thanks again for your time.
SPEAKER_01 (52:26):
Well, thank you guys for having me.
It's been a pleasure and it'sbeen fun.
SPEAKER_00 (52:29):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (52:30):
Thanks, Krita.
SPEAKER_01 (52:31):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (52:32):
This episode is brought to you by Winstone
Private Lending, one of the topprivate and hard money lenders
now serving Northwest Arkansas.
Whether you need short-termcapital for a flip, a bridge
loan, or creative financing,they've got you covered with
very flexible products to fitnearly any deal, including 100%
financing.
What sets them apart is theirdeep expertise, fast response
(52:53):
times, and ability to thinkoutside of the box to help
investors like us close quicklyand efficiently.
If you're looking for a reallending partner, check out
Winstone Private Lending.
Link is in the show notes.
Our next sponsor is AdvantageTitle and Escrow.
They're a local company.
They do great work, specificallyKayla Phillips.
(53:15):
I can speak personally on thissponsor because I use Kayla for
all of my transactions.
Uh it's been two, three, fouryears now, and Kayla and I have
done a ton of deals.
We probably do between 65 to 80deals a year together.
Um, and they do a great job.
The sit the SOP, so systems andprocessing that they have over
Advantage Title is justincredible.
(53:36):
Clients love it.
They do a great job from startto end communicating.
When I give a deal to AdvantageTitle and Escrow, I know that
it's going to be taken care of.
There's no second guessing.
I almost am able to treat themlike a second transaction
coordinator to my transactioncoordinator that I already have.
I know that they're going tohandle the systems and processes
(53:57):
correctly.
As an agent, as a homeowner, asa buyer or seller, they do an
incredible job of handling atransaction and communicating
throughout the process.
They do a great job withcommunication, especially Kayla
Phillips over there.
I would highly encourage you ifyou're looking to close on a
home, buy a home, if you're anagent listening, to use
(54:18):
Advantage Title and Escrow, uh,specifically Kayla Phillips.
So you're going to reach Kaylabest at 501-358-1601.
Or you can email her at Kayla CA Y L A at Goadvantage
Title.com.
Advantage is A-D-V-A-N-T-A-G attitle.com.
(54:45):
If you enjoyed the show, makesure to give us a follow on your
favorite podcast platform so younever miss an update.
Don't forget to connect with uson Instagram, Facebook, and
LinkedIn for more real estateinsights and behind the scenes
content.
SPEAKER_04 (54:55):
Have a question you want us to cover, send it our
way.
And if you're interested insponsoring the show, visit
NWAInvesting.com to get intouch.
Thanks for listening, and we'llsee you next time.
Welcome to Northwest Arkansas Investing Podcast, your
go-to source for real estateinvesting in Northwest Arkansas.
SPEAKER_02 (00:15):
We bring you expert insights, market trends, and
practical strategies to help youbuild wealth through real
estate.
SPEAKER_04 (00:20):
From buying and selling to property management
and long-term investmentplanning, we cover it all so you
can make smart, informeddecisions in this fast growing
market.
Let's dive in.
Welcome back to NWA InvestingPodcast.
I'm here with my co-host Brian.
And we've got a great guesttoday, Karina Sosa.
She's with us.
She's got a breadth ofexperience, over 25 years of
(00:41):
experience in real estateinvesting.
Um, she's got owner of Sosaproperties and uh and everything
that kind of encompasses that,which we'll get into.
But multifamily, short-termrentals, commercial, industrial,
um, land acquisitions, you nameit, um, across the United States
and Mexico.
And uh, she's got a deepknowledge of uh of just about
(01:02):
every category we can think of,which we're excited to get to
get into and and get to know hera little bit.
But Karina, thanks again forbeing on here with us.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
It's a pleasure.
I'm excited to be here.
SPEAKER_04 (01:12):
Absolutely.
Well, tell uh give us just thekind of a high-level view of of
you and kind of what what gotyou into really your background
a little bit and then what gotyou into to real estate uh in
general.
SPEAKER_01 (01:24):
Well, um honestly, I think like most people, we
started with a couple ofduplexes and um then just
started building up from there,you know, starting acquiring
some single family homes, um,some land, uh, and then pieced
it up and it sold quite nicely.
(01:46):
And um, you know, it just keptsnowballing.
And anytime that we soldanything, we 1031 it into the
next deal.
And it just kept getting biggerand bigger until it became a
full-time job.
But um I've been doing it foryou know 25 years.
Uh when I first started, Iworked a corporate job.
(02:08):
Um, I was at JB Hunt for 16years and then banking for
another six to eight years.
But um, in the meantime, I was,you know, like doing the real
estate, um showing on theweekends in the evening, you
know.
Um I know my kids laugh becauseI have them in the car seat,
(02:29):
like, okay, we're gonna go pickup some rent money and then head
to Chuck E.
Cheese after this, you know.
SPEAKER_05 (02:35):
Like I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:37):
So they kind of like grew up with a lot of that, and
um and through the years, youknow, like you know, those are
the conversations we have at thedinner table.
And um, so they've learned a lotas well, and you know, and we
made some memories along theway.
SPEAKER_03 (02:53):
Yep.
That's amazing.
But um you you were in theoperations, like it's uh not
just like showing for like arealtor, you were showing
prospective residents, and soyou were you were pretty heavy
on operations from myunderstanding.
Is that what you're sayingthere, too?
SPEAKER_01 (03:09):
Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (03:10):
Tell me about that.
Like what what made you youknow, I think it from what I
understand, you know, yourfamily started investing or what
you you started investing, whatmade you get drawn to the
operation side of it versuscarried out?
SPEAKER_01 (03:25):
So um I think it was just honestly, it was like an
opportunity, and then like um myhusband was more like the
visionary of like, oh, you know,like the big picture.
And then, you know, it soundedlike a great idea, and like, you
(03:46):
know, yeah, like, yeah, let'stry it.
But then I was kind of like theone that always like took the
reins and ran with it.
And um, but he was for sure, youknow, like the negotiator, and
um you know, he knew how to picksome winning horses, so that's
(04:08):
awesome.
Yeah, so that was kind of likethe role that he played, and
then I just kind of like ranwith it and you know, did the
day-to-day operations on it.
Um he was heavy inmanufacturing, and you know,
like we had a uh factory goingat the same time.
So we're really busy.
SPEAKER_03 (04:30):
And that was just kind of like, you know, it fell
on my lap and I ran with it andyou know, we uh collaborated a
lot, of course, but yeah, theday-to-day was definitely that's
that's a really good experience,you know, actually leasing it
out and collecting fromresidents, you know.
I'm sure I don't think you dothat today, um, but or or do
(04:51):
you?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
Um I have a I have a team now that you're not
knocking on the doors.
I'm not, but you know, like whenwe acquire a new property, I'm
out there, you know, um meetingnew tenants, getting to know the
property.
So I'm really hands-on.
I I like to kind of know how thewheel turns, you know, every
(05:13):
property's different.
Um so in the beginning, I'mvery, very hands-on, and I am
out on the property oninspecting units and you know,
walking with the contractors andthat kind of thing.
And once I get comfortable withit, um, and you know, I know
kind of how that property'sgonna work, then you know, I'm
(05:34):
not out there as much, but I amvery, very hands-on.
SPEAKER_04 (05:38):
Yeah, I love that.
And then it sounds like uh evenat the beginning, though, doing
all of that was more out ofnecessity, like you're you're
managing your own property andand uh not turning it over to
property management, I assume tomaybe get some extra cash flow,
but also learn kind of thebusiness in general.
Yeah.
I think that's a great, I mean,would you say that's a great
thing for any real estateinvestors as they're getting
(06:00):
started?
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
Absolutely.
Um, I think especially whenyou're getting started, you
know, look, those managementfees will cut into your profits.
So, you know, sometimes peoplewill try it out and it's just
you know, like the cash flowisn't there and then they just
kind of give up.
Uh but when you have control ofthat, um and I mean I also like
(06:23):
you know, I'm not afraid to workwith the contractors and you
know, like do sub a lot of mywork.
Um, so you know, that's a a bigcost savings there.
Um so it was out, you know, likeyou just kind of like make it
work and and then the bigger theprojects get, you know, you have
more negotiating power andpricing and and that kind of
(06:44):
thing.
So you're able to, you know,make it cash flow so much
better.
But yeah, absolutely beinghands-on and knowing your
property and um that way youknow how to run it.
You know, if you if you're notthere, you just absolutely yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:01):
How many units did you have before because you were
you were doing the banking andmanaging, you know, being
property manager hat on andoperations hat on.
How many units till you wentfull time?
Do you remember?
SPEAKER_01 (07:13):
Oh gosh, that's a good question, Brian.
Um I wanna say I think that'swhen we um like really, really
started growing.
And maybe we went because westarted with a lot of
multifamily and then eventuallyjumped into commercial.
Um but I want to say we had atleast 150 doors and then like
(07:38):
swiftly moved up to at least300.
Um, and you know, again, a lotof multifamily.
And um so yeah, I think that'swhen it was like, okay, it's be
it's gonna be a full-time job.
SPEAKER_04 (07:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:53):
And um and we figured, you know, like it was I
was gonna be able to run it moreefficiently, being full-time and
like probably make up for mysalary that I had in the long
term.
And it it pretty much worked outthat way.
SPEAKER_04 (08:08):
Absolutely.
So it sounds like even from thebeginning though, JB Hummet,
y'all started thinking aboutreal estate, maybe stacking some
funds on the side and startingto buy duplexes.
Is that kind of how it startedfor y'all?
SPEAKER_01 (08:20):
Yeah, um, actually, um going back, it started with
we bought some land because wewanted to build a bigger home.
And um, you know, we ended upbuying like several acres.
And um then there was peopleasking, like, is this for sale?
And you know, so we're like,well, we can like split it and
(08:42):
sell this piece, we don't needthat much.
And you know, like we it justkept selling, and we're like,
whoa, like, you know, this thisworked out really well.
And um so then just kind of sawthe opportunity like in real
estate at that point, and thenthere was um some duplexes that
came up for sale, like you know,like down the road from where we
(09:05):
lived, and um it was it wasscary.
That was like our first bigpurchase, and um we um actually
like put part at some of theequity from our home, you know,
like as part of our downpayment.
So so that was scary back then,you know, it's like, oh, but
this is our home.
SPEAKER_05 (09:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:26):
Um, but it worked out it, you know, eventually we
refinanced it, you know, on itsown and that kind of thing.
And um, and then yeah, it justkind of took off from there and
you know, did you know, flippeda few homes and um just then
moved on to the multifamily fromthe single family and um
(09:48):
commercial and Airbnbs and umand then my husband's company
took us to um Mexico and so wekind of continued, which that
was pretty exciting to um, youknow, to continue the real
estate over there and it it youknow it's different but the same
(10:09):
at the same time, but um so wedid some started developing
there and uh invested in somelike beach properties and did
Airbnbs and so a lot of growthfor sure.
SPEAKER_03 (10:25):
Yeah, to 150 and 300 units.
Are you guys using the how didyou capitalize?
Was that yeah, the family'sfunds, or did you start raising
capital at that point, or youpretty much you guys own capital
from uh other deals and the themanufacturing business?
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
Um, so honestly, like really the secret to how we
got started is is we we bothworked really hard, but we lived
below our means.
Like we we didn't spend a lot,we were in a smaller home.
Uh we never bought a brand newcar.
(11:02):
Uh, but all you know, instead ofhaving a car payment and like a
huge mortgage, we were takingthat money and investing it in
real estate.
SPEAKER_03 (11:10):
That's so big, yeah, for especially for beginner,
like people just getting startedwhen they first get their first
taste of success, you know, it'sit can be tempting to like spend
that, but you'll get such abigger snowball effect if you
just do let live below yourmeans and invest, invest that
difference, and and you'll beable to scale a lot faster, from
(11:31):
what I've seen.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (11:33):
Yep.
Absolutely, absolutely.
I think I think too, just Imean, obviously uh having a
career that can provide uh, youknow, that I think that would be
for most people should be thefirst focus is to find a good
career that they can start tostack away.
And then then again, I thinkthat advice is really strong of
just living below your means andand uh and then being able to
(11:54):
kind of make it happen,especially in northwest
Arkansas, in a place whereobviously prices continue to
rise and it continues to becomemore and more difficult.
Uh capital is going to beimportant, obviously, to have,
and both of you know that.
SPEAKER_03 (12:06):
So what markets were those, by the way, to uh
northwest Arkansas, I think FortSmith, what what kind of markets
were you guys targeting then?
SPEAKER_01 (12:15):
Um I mean, obviously we just started here in
Northwest Arkansas because youknow, I mean, like we lived here
and it was convenient and thatkind of thing.
And then um, you know, we didFort Smith and um and then as
prices have continued to go up,we um did find some good deals
in um in Texas and Oklahoma.
SPEAKER_05 (12:38):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
So uh in the Oklahoma, we still have a little
bit there, but it's just it's somuch easier to have it here.
SPEAKER_04 (12:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
But um, you know, there's still good deals.
SPEAKER_04 (12:50):
So yeah.
So tell tell me about your kindof as you guys were getting
started, obviously you startedin duplexes and maybe some
single family, but what was theapproach as y'all were starting
to buy property and then tell mea little bit how that's
transitioned?
I know you've done a little bitof everything, but what was it
just looking for cash floworiginally, or was it looking
for um, you know, we'respecifically looking at
(13:13):
multifamily.
What what was that approach wheny'all were first looking at at
deals?
SPEAKER_01 (13:17):
Um yeah, obviously we were like interested in um,
you know, acquiring assets andhaving some passive cash flow
coming in, you know.
Um I think in the beginning wenever thought it would turn into
something, you know, like thisbig or full time.
Um and we hung on to most of ourstuff as the years went by.
(13:41):
Like if we sold anything, it wasalways like to upgrade to
something like bigger or like wesold a lot of the multifamily
to, you know, acquirecommercial, um that kind of
thing.
But I think another importantthing for investors to remember
too, it's like you you don'tjust want to build your cash
flow, you want to build your networth.
(14:04):
So, you know, you hang on tothings, uh, you get lines of
credits on them.
You can still use your equity,but you're building your net
worth as you go along.
SPEAKER_03 (14:12):
And is that part of the thought process?
Before we started recording, wewere talking, Karina, about a
develop, you know, commercialflex development that you're in
the pro.
Is that the thought process toowith development?
You know, it's not cash flowing,but you're building the equity
that way.
SPEAKER_01 (14:28):
Yeah, and that's another thing that I've learned.
Like sometimes, you know, like Ifeel like people get really
closed-minded because they'relike, oh, this thing doesn't
really cash flow, like it's onlygonna make thousand dollars a
month.
Like, yeah, today, but like evenif you're not like cash flowing
huge, like it's gonnaappreciate, and like before you
(14:50):
know it, you've made 200k, youknow.
Um, so it's not always um I knowlike I remember we bought, and
you know, I'm kind of datingmyself.
This is like back in like 2007,eight, and um when the whole
real estate market went down,and we had just purchased a
(15:11):
house in Springdale for 120,which back then that was kind of
a lot.
And we're like, oh man, we gotstuck with this, you know, like
but I mean, I was able to rentit and we, you know, it made the
mortgage.
I I can't remember, I think Iwas making like I don't know, a
couple hundred bucks cash flow,like nothing major, but it you
(15:31):
know, it paid the mortgage andthe taxes and insurance and kind
of thing.
But then when we did sell it,like I think we doubled our
price, you know.
So it's it's a funny, you know,like don't don't let stuff like
that scare you away sometimes.
And then building, I think, um Imean that's always scary because
(15:52):
it's something brand new, butum, I think in new development,
um, and I know Brian, you'regetting into that.
Um, it's it's not gonna be rightoff the bat, but it'll happen.
Like before you know it, likeyou're you know, the cash flow
is coming in, and so you sustainit for a little bit and then it,
(16:13):
you know, the equity goes up.
SPEAKER_04 (16:15):
Absolutely.
I think that's a great pointthough, too, because especially
in Northwest Arkansas, it, youknow, oftentimes rents, rents
are continuing to rise over overtime, but oftentimes it is just
harder to find cash flowingdeals nowadays.
But I think in general, asinvestors, if you're looking for
deal, if you're buying dealsright, let's say for a value add
(16:36):
opportunity, if you're buyingdeals right with instant equity,
that's a big win.
If you're building somethingthat can that you're building
instant equity, um, another bigwin.
So I think as investors, it's uhyou know, cash flow doesn't tell
the full story, like you said.
And but maybe as as people arestarting, that might be you know
something that they're a littlebit closed-minded about.
(16:56):
Um but oftentimes, you know,those opportunities could
springboard you into a bigopportunity that you know could
could do the get the cash flowthat you want or need or
anything like that.
SPEAKER_03 (17:06):
You definitely have to look at it, the whole
picture, you know, not like yousaid, just be closed-minded.
You're looking at a I mean,especially in NWA, you know,
where it is uh more of aappreciation market than a cash
flow market.
Whereas Fort Smith, if I'mbuying something in Fort Smith,
I can't count on the I need tothat cash flow that you know, I
better be cash flowing becauseI'm not gonna get the
appreciation on the back end.
(17:27):
But you know, if you comparethat to NWA, I better be getting
some good appreciation if I'mgiving up some cash flow.
So I think it's important tolook at the whole picture, not
get stuck on cat, you know, cashon cash number, or don't get
stuck on your cap rate, or don'tget stuck on IRR.
I think it's important to lookat the you know the whole
picture.
And exactly and also to what ifyou're buying right, you can
(17:50):
weather, you know, a certainstore where you might have not
as much cash flow as youthought, or you're not able to
sell right away, like you did inin Springdale.
SPEAKER_01 (17:59):
And and one thing that luckily in this area, like
there's a renter for every typeof property.
SPEAKER_04 (18:06):
True.
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
Um, we had bought a lake house, and you know, being
in the in the in this industry,like if you had a uh an empty
property, like it just bothersyou, you know, like for sure.
Um but you know, we you justdon't think like, oh, I can't
and this was before Airbnb, sothat wasn't really a thing.
(18:27):
And um and besides that, I thinkour HOA didn't allow like
short-term rentals for likevacations and stuff.
But we actually got we foundlike we were like, well, let's
just put it up for rent and seewhat happens.
It's just sitting there, like,and um and we had a family that
like came and like literallywrote us a check for the whole
(18:51):
entire year, and theyhomeschooled their kids and you
know, they wanted to be by thewater, and the dad traveled, so
the mom was gonna be there, andit was like, yeah, like you
know, yeah, there's someone forevery property.
SPEAKER_03 (19:07):
That's a great point.
Being that close attendants,too, you you don't get that get
to feel that too if you're notas in touch with uh the property
management.
But on the other side, you alsodon't get that, you know,
there's as many good stories asthat, there's some bad stories.
You know, bad tenants out thereto know that.
SPEAKER_04 (19:26):
All all I've heard about, just speaking of those
bad stories, my my dad used toown a fourplex down in downtown
Bidenville, Riding His SkylightTheater now.
Um, and he talked, he managedeverything himself back in the
day.
And he lived in Springdale, anduh he would have to meet all the
tenants up there and show themthe property and stuff like
that.
He just kept getting stood up upthere, and then he had somebody
that was growing marijuana inthe closet, and he was just
(19:50):
like, I'm just gonna sell it,and then you know, we know what
happens now years later, yeah,20 years later, or whatever.
So he's kicking himself overthat.
But I think that's just a funnyuh kind of experience when it
comes to managing your own,especially in the beginning.
SPEAKER_01 (20:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's a lot of that, so it'sthere's never a dull moment, and
now I just kind of look at itlike, okay, um, you know, it's
part of the part of the plainreal estate, like there's highs
and lows and good stories toshare later down the road.
SPEAKER_03 (20:21):
Absolutely.
Do do you utilize third-partyproperty management now, or do
you have in-house, or does ithave to be no, I still
everything's in-house.
SPEAKER_04 (20:30):
Just has the has a team.
So yeah, I I'd love to I'd loveto get a little bit more into
that too.
SOSA properties in in general.
Uh, I know we've talked throughsome of these items that are
some of these kind of areas ofexpertise that you have now in
commercial.
Obviously, you've donemultifamily, single family, um,
short-term rentals, even Mexicoand maybe here.
(20:51):
I don't know, we can talk aboutthat too.
But um, and then there's aproperty management side, I
guess, side or team part of itas well.
Give us just kind of an overviewof social properties in general
on uh what that looks like fory'all.
SPEAKER_01 (21:04):
Um, yeah, so again, like I'm very, very involved.
You know, it's like myday-to-day operations.
Um and I think because I did itfor by myself for so long, like
I have, you know, like a a smallteam.
Sometimes I I think I probablyneed a few more people.
Um you know, like we're justreally close knit and like every
(21:28):
day, you know, I know what'sgoing on, and you know,
communication is key.
Um and it helps having your ownmaintenance team that you can,
you know, like on the you know,one phone call and you can send
them here or there and um nothave to wait on somebody else to
put you in, that kind of thing.
(21:50):
Um and just you know, marketingand scheduling showings and you
know, like keeping everythingfull to the best of our ability.
Collections and accounting andabsolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (22:06):
So on the property management side, is uh is there
an arm that's uh outside of theunits that you're involved in?
So I guess are you managingunits for other investors out
there as well?
SPEAKER_01 (22:18):
Um so I only manage my stuff.
I do have partners that I'vegone into with on some deals.
Uh and I do the asset managementon that side, but um I only
manage the stuff that like onpart owner um I don't do for you
(22:40):
know like for other people.
SPEAKER_04 (22:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a big I think that yeah,that's super smart.
So uh as far as you know, and Iknew uh I I love that piece.
I mean, that's a great for thosethat are you know thinking about
doing uh or have a portfoliothat they're managing
themselves.
I think that's a great uh somegreat learnings to kind of
continue to get into deals.
Uh maybe there's a partnershipaspect that folks can kind of
(23:05):
help the management side and beable to get a you know get into
more deals if that makes sense.
But uh as far as other arms ofof social properties,
short-term, I mean, get helphelp us understand as far as
short-term rentals and and somethings like that.
It that's an area that wehaven't talked about much, but
what where did that kind of uhstem from, I guess, originally?
SPEAKER_01 (23:28):
Um so originally when we moved to Mexico, we had
our our family home that youknow we really didn't want to
sell.
And um we'd kind of, you know,we'd come and go because
obviously, you know, we stillhad business here as well.
Um so we turned our house intoan Airbnb.
And it was like um veryconvenient because when we knew
(23:51):
we were gonna be in town, youknow, I'd block off that week
and we'd get to stand the houseand then we were done.
We'd pack up and you know.
SPEAKER_05 (24:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:01):
Um and it's a bigger home set was nice, like for it's
in Fayetteville for footballweekends, you know.
It was, you know, when familiescame down at graduation and um,
you know, any events at theuniversity.
So it worked really well.
Um and then, you know, we hadsome vacation properties in
(24:22):
Mexico too that you know we onlyused occasionally.
So having them on Airbnb, youknow, we were still, you know,
making money to pay the HOA duesand the maintenance and the pool
and landscaping and that kind ofthing.
SPEAKER_04 (24:38):
So makes sense.
So it really kind of startedwith the personal home.
Yeah.
And they kind of I guessexpanded from there and kind of
looked at opportunities.
You said you mentioned maybe onthe beach down there in Mexico
as well, stuff like that.
And then any any others arounduh the United States or anywhere
else that y'all expand down?
SPEAKER_01 (24:57):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04 (24:58):
Yep.
So I guess uh help me continueto understand the timeline here
because you've been in so much.
I'm I'm trying to keep it allstraight.
So small multifamily start, somesingle family, maybe short-term
rental was before after when youstarted to get in into more
commercial deals.
But where when did thecommercial piece kind of start
being a part of socialproperties business plan?
SPEAKER_01 (25:19):
Um, it was probably around 2017, 16 or 17.
Um that's when we moved out ofthe country.
And with multifamily, you know,it's like you're, you know,
babysitting, you know, like 50families and you know, like 50
uh fridges and you know that canpossibly go out or what have
(25:43):
you.
So we were like, okay, like umcommercials not as hands-on, you
know, like it is in thebeginning, you know, you're
you're trying to like if there'sa build out or you know, things
like that.
But once they're in, they'rekind of in and on their own.
And on the commercial side, thenice thing is like they're um
(26:04):
responsible for most of theirmaintenance.
Like obviously we do like theroots and you know, like uh big
HVAC um stuff like that,landscaping.
But um so we started selling offmultifamily and then 1030 went
again to the commercial, and itworked, you know, like once we
(26:25):
got the units filled, you know,like the tenants were kind of on
their own.
So we were able to like back offon like as much maintenance and
you know, like day-to-day up.
I mean, obviously it was still,you know, you keep up with it,
but not as tedious.
Um, so that's that's kind of howwe got into that.
SPEAKER_03 (26:45):
20 2016, 2017.
That's when I bought my first 12unit in Springdale.
Guess what I bought it from.
I love it.
That's right.
That was right around that time.
Was this a letter, a cold call,or how did we know it was uh
Chris Vega shut out.
Uh broker, yeah, brokerrelation.
Um, I still talked to him.
(27:05):
Um, but yeah, just we uh theyhad it on the market, and then
if you know, I wasn't quickenough, and then it fell off the
market.
And I think the previous buyerhad fallen out of contract, and
I was like, hey, I'm ready toget, you know, I saw this is
available.
And we met at the property andthen closed it and then beloved
it.
Yeah, that was my first ventureinto multifamily and it was good
(27:29):
process.
And later, actually, my firstdeal in Fort Smith was a 59
unit, and they were the sellerstogether.
Oh no, what's just a couple ofthat's awesome.
Maybe a year and a half later orso, maybe two years later.
SPEAKER_04 (27:41):
But below it's so yeah, just just speaking on that
too, uh as far as the deals go.
I'd love to, I mean, as much asyou want to share, don't want to
share, but uh tell tell us aboutany deal that stands out along
your uh along your timeline asfar as either your favorite deal
or maybe a deal that kind of wasyour big break, you know, from
start to finish.
(28:02):
What what did that look like andwhat kind of property was it?
Stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01 (28:08):
Um wow.
You know, it's been like thegrowth has been so organically
that um and I'm a bigmultitasker, so it's like even
even though we had thecommercial, we still had some
multifamily, and then we're likestarting developing in Mexico
(28:29):
and um the Airbnb.
So it all kind of ties intogether.
So it's hard to say, like, youknow, like, oh, and then I
jumped into this.
SPEAKER_03 (28:37):
It was like what's the most amount of money you
made on a single, what's likethe best deal you've done that
as far as like return on money,and then maybe is there any
worst one?
Um how was of the 59 unit or the12 unit I bought from you guys?
Do you remember that one?
Yeah, the yacht humanity.
SPEAKER_01 (28:59):
You guys have to I don't remember the amount.
SPEAKER_03 (29:04):
Um I think the 12 unit I bought for like 500 or
595, 500 or 595, and then 59unit, maybe like two point
something, or a little underthree million or so.
SPEAKER_01 (29:16):
Yeah, I don't let me I'm trying to think like which
one was like the biggest.
Um I mean that was one of thebigger complexes that we had um
that we did well on, but I thinkI think the biggest one was or
the biggest uh one that weprofited on was probably
Rivendell and and Rogers.
SPEAKER_03 (29:37):
I don't know if you remember that one how many units
what you buy for what you sellfor?
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
That one had 33 units, and we bought it right at
a million.
I do yeah, it's that's great.
And that was our big likemillion dollar purchase.
You know, like everything hasbeen in like the hundred
thousands, and that was like Ohmy gosh, like it's a million
dollars.
You know?
SPEAKER_05 (30:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:03):
Um and but it's funny how like you you grow and
and like this last deal that weclosed on in March, it was close
to 10 million, it was like ninemillion.
And um when my partner calledand said, like, you're not gonna
believe this, like um we got itunder contract.
(30:25):
Cause you know, it's a lot ofgoing back and forth of like,
well, what about this price,what about that price?
And it's like both of ourstomachs just sank, like, oh my
gosh, like we're really doingthis, yeah.
Like we're really doing this,and um, but then you just kind
of like grow into it.
Yeah, but on on back toRivendell, I uh that one sold
(30:48):
for 3.2, 3.4, something likethat.
SPEAKER_03 (30:52):
Nice, yeah.
Amazing.
That's awesome.
And that you use that when youpurchased it, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (30:57):
I mean um, so yeah, we did.
Um, but we were also always veryconservative.
Like we we usually always didlike 20% down.
So we always had room, you know,like we never felt that helped a
lot too.
Like you're not stressed out oflike, oh, this is gonna be
(31:18):
tight.
Like there was always like goodroom there.
SPEAKER_04 (31:21):
So it could sustain itself, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (31:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (31:25):
I love it.
Well, what about any any uniquedeals come to mind as far as,
you know, have you been a partof any that owner has seller
finance a deal or or uh anyanything unique like that that
stands out that you you canremember on any deals?
SPEAKER_01 (31:40):
You know, we've we were very fortunate we had
really good uh bankingrelationships.
And because we had such a bigportfolio, it was like we used
that equity.
Like that was really how wegrew.
It you know, like um we hung onto everything and and built the
equity, and then we would justlike, yeah, we'll put this one
(32:02):
as a second and like use that asyour down payment.
So um that was really whathelped us grow quickly with you
know, like sell stuff and pullcash out and that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03 (32:18):
So got more creative with the the lenders with the
lenders, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:22):
Smart, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:24):
So just as as far as your your strategy and kind of
your philosophy moving forwardnow and kind of where you're at
in your career, for you, I mean,when did it, you know, for a lot
of people like Brian is I wecan't say you're specifically
multifamily because I know yougot some storage and some other
stuff, but Brian is almostexclusively multifamily.
A lot of others would say thatthey're you know pretty niche in
(32:47):
what they do.
Uh but you you have a breadth ofthings.
And so um for you, I mean, wasthat ever was it ever a thought
to to try to be niche into acertain category or are you
chased opportunities in general?
And and when do you think that'syou know, do you think that's a
good strategy for most peopleout there?
SPEAKER_01 (33:03):
Um for me, it was like, yeah, if there's an
opportunity there, like exploreit, you know, like don't be like
shut off, like, oh yeah, that'snot for me.
And um, but again, I'm amultitasker, so that doesn't
bother me.
And I'm sure some people itwould drive them crazy.
Um, and then like there's alsolike a really creative side of
(33:25):
me that, you know, like um, youknow, like I wanted to build,
and you know, like when I was inMexico, it was, you know, very
affordable to have a staff withlike an architect and and all of
that.
So that was a lot of fun becauseyou you I had an architect like
right next to me, and we're likeum, you know, like designing
(33:46):
homes and you know, like umbuilding them, and you know, so
it was like I got to do a lot ofinput there and and you know,
like the creativity of that.
So that was I think that wasprobably my favorite.
SPEAKER_04 (34:00):
I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (34:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (34:02):
Um and then yeah, I think I think just as far as you
know, looking at you youmentioned kind of how you
approached a lot of these dealsreally in a more conservative
lens.
Um, you know, again, I go backto Brian because you got you
guys are my two examples here.
But uh, I know Brian, when youwere getting started, there's as
much leverage as possible withwith growth.
(34:23):
It sounds like with y'all therewas you know kind of a
conservative, you know, put 20%down, or or really kind of, you
know, I I'm sure there weretimes too where there was more
leverage, but uh is that astrategy?
I know I'd love to hear your uhtake on your side as well, but
is that a strategy you wouldrecommend for for most investors
out there, as especially intoday's market?
(34:44):
I know that requires morecapital, but I'd love your
thoughts there.
SPEAKER_01 (34:47):
Right.
Well, that's hard to deal withlike today's rates, you know,
um, and the pricing, you know,of real estate right now.
But um I think really the thekey to you know somebody that
wants to start investing is likehave a stable income that you
(35:08):
know like you feel confidentbecause then you're able to take
risk and not, you know, likeit's not gonna ruin your
marriage, it's not gonna, youknow, like um so when you have a
stable income, like you knowevery two weeks your checks
gonna be in the bank and youknow what your you know monthly
you know debt is, and and thenanything extra, like um, you
(35:31):
know, we'd get excited, and youknow, instead of like you know,
purchasing a new car, it's like,oh, we found this like rental
house, and you know, like we canredo this and redo that, and
then you just like get excitedabout it, and you know, you're
shopping, but you're shoppingfor real estate.
And um, so I mean, I knowthere's like Brian did, he got
(35:56):
really creative, like with someseller financing, and you know,
like that's a great way to doit.
Like personally, I you know, Ididn't experience that, but um I
know with my partners now wehave uh used a little bit of
that, like maybe like the firstcouple of years, you you know,
do some owner financing at alower rate because of the way
(36:19):
the interest rates are.
So that's definitely a way toapproach deals in today's
market.
SPEAKER_04 (36:25):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (36:26):
Um and then, you know, like you know, banks can
be creative too.
Like if they know that there'spotential in the project, like
don't be afraid to, you know,leverage it a little more.
And you know, they're not gonnaspread themselves too thin, but
you there's ways to to make itwork.
SPEAKER_03 (36:46):
That's great.
Yeah, I love that mindset too oflike, you know, you you
mentioned it earlier, livingbelow your means and investing
the difference.
And instead of getting excitedabout a new car, you're getting
excited about a rental company.
So absolutely definitelyrecommend having a partner or a
spouse that has a sayingalignment.
You know, they don't have to bein the business with you, but
making sure they're on the samepage as you with that, like just
(37:09):
because our means increasedoesn't mean we're we're out to
spend like we can invest this,we can really you're gonna have
even more means to spend.
And I think, you know, theleverage piece, I I levered up a
lot in the beginning, especiallywhen it was my own money, you
know, because I knew I had thatstable income too.
You know, I wasn't like I wasliving below my means and I had
(37:32):
income above and beyond what myexpenses were.
So I knew like I could, if worsecomes to work, like that was
kind of my reserves.
My reserves was my my debt to myglobal debt to income ratio.
My reserves was I'll work mybutt off and put it towards a
property if something badhappens, and I'll just work and
work extra and put that extraincome to the so that was kind
(37:52):
of my reserve.
So I think you know, havingsmart leverage is is important.
Like I still like to, it dependson the investment.
I have some investors that, youknow, would prefer to be uh put
more into it, but some investorsare like, I'm I want to get the
highest return on equity.
You know, I'm not as concernedabout cash flow, you know, I'm
okay with the extra risk ifwe're accounting for it for
(38:15):
extra, you know, that higherdebt payment that you have with
that higher leverage.
But sometimes you can getcreative with the sellers and
maybe you're not paying themany, maybe it's full accrual.
Like, you know, maybe it's hey,I'm I'm giving you more on the
purchase price and I'm givingyou an interest rate on that,
but it's gonna be paid at aballoon payment.
So you're not the sacrificingyour cash flow.
(38:37):
Not all sellers will do that,you know.
I try to get you guys to juicethemselves in there, like not
Litz and will do it.
So it depends.
I think it's a tool, I thinkit's a tool in the toolbox.
Like it's not that shouldn't beyour only tool in the toolbox,
but it can be another way ofgetting a deal done.
Same thing, you know, Karina'sphilosophy of you know, not
(38:58):
being closed-minded, like beingopen to deals, especially with
you honing in more on NWA, wasyou had a lot of success in the
duplex as a multifamily, but tostay in NWA, you were you will
had to be open-minded to look atthese other opportunities to
have more tools to place yourequity and grow it.
SPEAKER_01 (39:16):
Yeah.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_04 (39:17):
Absolutely.
I I think one one thing I had aquestion about just from uh what
what you mentioned earlier wasjust banking relationships in
general and how that's changedover time.
What what did that look likewhen you guys were first
starting out?
You probably were uh maybeputting a a a typical amount
down 20 to 25 percent orwhatever on your duplexes, but
(39:39):
um as time has gone on andportfolio has grown, how are the
how have those relationshipschanged for you?
SPEAKER_01 (39:45):
Um I I guess giving you a little bit of background
too that I think helped is uhbecause I did work in banking
and I worked uh I did secondarymarket mortgage funds.
And um you had to get reallycreative.
Like if your debt to incomeratio is too high, um, you know,
(40:06):
like how can we get that down?
And you know, being in banking,I'd be, you know, I'd talk to my
clients and I'd be like, well,let's refinance your car and
your boat and your credit cardinto one loan, and then you just
have one big payment instead ofthree or four, you know, uh, and
and that'll bring it, and thenwe get the ratio down, and then
(40:26):
we'll make that work.
And so I don't know, like Ialways had kind of that mindset
of like how can we make it workinstead of like how it's not
gonna work.
SPEAKER_04 (40:39):
Yeah.
So that's a problem solversmindset.
That's right.
Gotta have in real estate.
And then too, I mean, I I knowif for I mean, for those out
there that are just kind ofgetting started and and uh, you
know, maybe are looking tocreate some banking
relationships.
Um in your experience, has itbeen beneficial to you know to
(41:00):
have one that you really trustand lean on, or is it has it
been f beneficial for you tohave multiple that that can
really treat you in differentways and maybe want different
product and stuff like that?
What how has that kind ofevolved?
SPEAKER_01 (41:12):
Yeah, so you're always gonna have kind of that
one that you usually like go tofirst.
Um, but then there's gonna be afew times when they're like, oh,
I wish I could do that, but I,you know, um, or somebody's
trying to earn your business andthey have a better rate and you
know, better product.
And, you know, if you have agood relationship, you know,
they'll be like, no, you knowwhat, I understand, like that is
(41:34):
a better deal.
I can't match it, but like,yeah, I would take it.
Um, so you know, no hardfeelings there, you know, and
then always, you know, come backand offer them and um, you know,
like again, open-minded.
So you're not always gonna justbe able to work with one because
there's different products,different rates, you know, and
(41:56):
every bank is in a differentsituation where like maybe one
needs more deposits and oneneeds to do more loans, and so
it's different markets and youknow, the different, you know,
stage that they're at.
So um, but I have my favorites.
SPEAKER_04 (42:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's why family.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think, I mean, again, Ithink bankers, we've talked
about this before, but bankersand lenders are some of your
biggest partners in the deal,obviously.
And so uh having people that arelooking after your back and that
can, you know, will go to batfor you as well on deals that
you know are good deals thatmaybe others uh don't see the
(42:36):
vision.
So I think that's superimportant.
Um for you all, socialproperties, uh what what does
the future look look like foryou all?
What is, you know, what are youhoping that the next five to ten
years looks like um in thebusiness?
SPEAKER_01 (42:51):
So um now I'm starting to work on like bigger
deals, you know, with partnersthat syndicated deals.
Um I I'd like to do some moredevelopment like on the building
side, just because I like Ireally enjoy that.
Um I know that um likeFayetteville has a need for
(43:12):
single family homes.
And um so I'm um I would like todabble into some of that.
Um, you know, not nothing big,just kind of like um, I don't
know, get my feet wet and seehow that goes.
One or two homes here and there.
Um but uh yeah, just the otherthing about, you know, like
(43:34):
everything that I had done up tothis point was, you know, just
within the family.
And and now that I, you know,I've partnered up, like you can
grow even bigger.
And um, and honestly, it'sactually nice to have that
support of, you know, like, hey,we got this going on, and you
know, we have a team of peoplethat have the same interest
(43:59):
because you know, when when theyown the property too, like we
all have the same goal in mind,you know.
So we're working in synergy andum, you know, like you're able
to like grow even faster.
SPEAKER_03 (44:13):
Absolutely.
So any advice and on that, anyadvice on partnering up with the
right people?
SPEAKER_01 (44:19):
Absolutely.
So one thing that I've learned,it's like we all have our
strength and weaknesses.
So like you want to findsomebody that you're, you know,
they have the strength that isyour weakness and so forth.
And obviously, you know, likegood communication,
transparency, and um, you know,being aligned.
(44:44):
Because as long as you'realigned on your goal and you you
both have, you know, you want toreach the same, you know, end in
mind, like you're you're gonnamake it happen.
SPEAKER_03 (44:56):
Yeah, and I think being aligned too is is how you
struck and how you structurethat partnership.
One, like to your point, likethe the strengths and weaknesses
have to line up and having thesame goal and vision.
But, you know, if someone isjust fee-based and they don't
have any equity, they they maynot be as aligned to continue to
(45:16):
perform, you know.
So I think it's important, youknow, with your part, you know,
my partners I like to see haveequity in the deal too.
SPEAKER_01 (45:25):
Yeah, absolutely, because then you're all you know
on the same team and you know,like we're all you know, going
for that uh touchdown.
SPEAKER_04 (45:36):
Absolutely.
I love that.
We've got just a couple otherquestions I'd I'd love to get
your your thoughts on as as wekind of wrap up here.
But what would be your someadvice that you would have for a
new or inspired aspiringinvestor in Northwest Arkansas?
SPEAKER_01 (45:52):
Um I think uh if that's what you you know, if
that's what you really want todo, like enjoy the process.
Like, you know, we're talkingearlier, like don't look at it
as a job, like oh, a chore, likeget excited, like, oh, you know,
I get to go buy this duplex, youknow, and and you know, like and
(46:14):
I think one philosophy that Ifeel like I try to live by, it's
like, how can I make thisbetter?
And like you walk into it, andlike obviously it's not rental
properties aren't always likethe shiniest and per things, but
you know, you can do so manythings to them and make them
better and like you know,inexpensive ways.
(46:34):
And um, so it's like you walkin, it's like, oh, what's the
potential here?
And um, you know, like play withit, have fun, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (46:45):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (46:46):
Oh, yeah, great advice on living life in general
too.
Absolutely.
I love that perspective.
And then just what what are somesome key habits or practices
that you've uh you know, thatyou've acquired over the years
that have that you think haveled to your success?
SPEAKER_01 (47:03):
So I think communication is key.
Um I learned that like veryearly on, you know, especially
like in properties where you'relike, yeah, uh this is the color
we're gonna we're gonna paint.
And then you walk in and they'vepainted this mustard yellow.
And it's like, no, no, that'sthe fucking.
(47:25):
Um so I've I've learned to justlike communicate exactly what I
need or what I want, uh, becauseeverybody wants to do a good
job, but if you don'tcommunicate correctly, then you
know they're not gonna have thatinformation to pull through for
you.
And then frustration comes in.
So like the more that you cancommunicate, and uh especially
(47:47):
when it comes to like remodelsand stuff like that, I try to
over-communicate and um and likemake yourself accessible, you
know.
Like if they if they call, pickup the phone.
It may be just a you know, shortquestion that can save you
hundreds, thousands of dollars,you know, because they don't
(48:07):
know what direction to go.
And then two, like you're gonnaslow the process because maybe
they can't start without youapproving this or what have you.
So communication, and then likeat the end of the day, it's like
the team around you that makesyou.
So um I think just having goodrelationships with the people
(48:29):
that you work with and um Ithink being, you know, grateful
and appreciative, I think we allkind of like get in a grind, but
um you know, like telling peoplelike, oh, you're doing a great
job when they are, because youknow, like we just don't say it
(48:50):
enough.
So just encouraging them, youknow, and I tell a lot of people
like I think managing a team tofor me, it's like just being a
mom, you know, like, hey, didyou do your homework?
Let me let me check yourhomework and like and then when
they need encouragement, likeyou got this, like you know,
like um, or just like well, talkto me, what's going on, and you
(49:14):
know, like finding out a youknow, like, okay, well, what can
we do to make it better?
Or if that didn't work, whatwill?
So just you know, buildingpeople up.
I think when you when you buildthem up, they're gonna build you
up, you know.
Um, you don't realize it at thetime, but that's the way it
always works out.
SPEAKER_04 (49:33):
Absolutely.
Like, yeah, I love that.
That's that's great leadershipadvice.
And and uh overall, I think ifanybody wants to to grow or have
a team, or even I mean, greatadvice you can use within your
family, building one another upand and uh you know, just kind
of loving on one each other oneanother and you know, giving
each other uh kind of some ofthose encouragements.
(49:54):
And then uh I like what you saidtoo about communication.
Um, I mean, such an importantthing in real estate in any
category in real estate.
I mean, I think a lot of peoplewould be surprised at what
picking up the phone, how farthat goes.
SPEAKER_01 (50:07):
Yeah, it really does.
Uh, and then you want to be agood listener because some, you
know, like all your questionswill get answered if you're just
listening.
And um, I think that's mostimportant, like listen and then
gather your information and thenand you know, because a lot of
times it's perspective too.
(50:28):
Like they're looking at it fromone lens, and then but if you
listen, then you realize, like,oh, I see where they're coming
from.
And you're able to, you know,find a solution.
And then you work in harmony,and there's nothing better than
that.
SPEAKER_03 (50:44):
Absolutely.
Amazing advice, yeah.
And that's uh it's the it's thethe woman perspective, like
having the gratitude, halistening, and like you know,
having the empathy.
And I think that's if you canuse that, that's uh it can
really be beneficial in realestate and makes it more fun.
SPEAKER_01 (51:01):
It does.
And and you know, like when youappreciate people, they
appreciate you.
And I mean, like, I don't knowhow many times I've called and
like, hey, I'm in a jam, likeyou know, got this big leak
going, like, you know, I'll beright there, you know, just
stuff that you know, like makesyou yeah.
Um, so but you know, whateveryou put out, that's what you get
(51:25):
back.
SPEAKER_04 (51:26):
Absolutely.
So I love that.
So for anybody that's listeningand wants to get in touch with
you or or reach out, maybe withany questions, what where's a
good place?
Maybe they can email you or orreach out to to get connected
with you.
SPEAKER_01 (51:40):
Yeah, so um, I think I'm not big on social media.
SPEAKER_04 (51:44):
Uh that's a good thing.
Yeah, that's good.
SPEAKER_01 (51:47):
Uh I do have a LinkedIn page.
Uh that's probably the one thatI kind of like visit the most.
Um so you know that would be agood one.
SPEAKER_03 (51:57):
Perfect.
Um Karina says uh at LinkedIn.
SPEAKER_01 (52:01):
I don't like um yeah, in my emails, Karina at
Sosa Properties.net.
SPEAKER_04 (52:05):
So awesome.
Yeah.
Well, Karina, we're superthankful that uh that you spent
some time with us.
I know your time is valuable andand uh there's a lot of great
nuggets in here, and and uhyou've just got such a breadth
of of experience, short-termrentals, multifamily, single
family commercial.
Um, and we're just pumped thatwe got to to have you today.
So thanks again for your time.
SPEAKER_01 (52:26):
Well, thank you guys for having me.
It's been a pleasure and it'sbeen fun.
SPEAKER_00 (52:29):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (52:30):
Thanks, Krita.
SPEAKER_01 (52:31):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (52:32):
This episode is brought to you by Winstone
Private Lending, one of the topprivate and hard money lenders
now serving Northwest Arkansas.
Whether you need short-termcapital for a flip, a bridge
loan, or creative financing,they've got you covered with
very flexible products to fitnearly any deal, including 100%
financing.
What sets them apart is theirdeep expertise, fast response
(52:53):
times, and ability to thinkoutside of the box to help
investors like us close quicklyand efficiently.
If you're looking for a reallending partner, check out
Winstone Private Lending.
Link is in the show notes.
Our next sponsor is AdvantageTitle and Escrow.
They're a local company.
They do great work, specificallyKayla Phillips.
(53:15):
I can speak personally on thissponsor because I use Kayla for
all of my transactions.
Uh it's been two, three, fouryears now, and Kayla and I have
done a ton of deals.
We probably do between 65 to 80deals a year together.
Um, and they do a great job.
The sit the SOP, so systems andprocessing that they have over
Advantage Title is justincredible.
(53:36):
Clients love it.
They do a great job from startto end communicating.
When I give a deal to AdvantageTitle and Escrow, I know that
it's going to be taken care of.
There's no second guessing.
I almost am able to treat themlike a second transaction
coordinator to my transactioncoordinator that I already have.
I know that they're going tohandle the systems and processes
(53:57):
correctly.
As an agent, as a homeowner, asa buyer or seller, they do an
incredible job of handling atransaction and communicating
throughout the process.
They do a great job withcommunication, especially Kayla
Phillips over there.
I would highly encourage you ifyou're looking to close on a
home, buy a home, if you're anagent listening, to use
(54:18):
Advantage Title and Escrow, uh,specifically Kayla Phillips.
So you're going to reach Kaylabest at 501-358-1601.
Or you can email her at Kayla CA Y L A at Goadvantage
Title.com.
Advantage is A-D-V-A-N-T-A-G attitle.com.
(54:45):
If you enjoyed the show, makesure to give us a follow on your
favorite podcast platform so younever miss an update.
Don't forget to connect with uson Instagram, Facebook, and
LinkedIn for more real estateinsights and behind the scenes
content.
SPEAKER_04 (54:55):
Have a question you want us to cover, send it our
way.
And if you're interested insponsoring the show, visit
NWAInvesting.com to get intouch.
Thanks for listening, and we'llsee you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.