How the Moorish Science Temple Functions- Cozmo El

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The mysterious traditions of the Moorish Science Temple often appear impenetrable to outsiders, but National Grand Sheik Cozmo El offers rare clarity in this illuminating conversation. With decades of experience, he expertly navigates the complex organizational structure that binds together various Moorish temples while allowing each to maintain their distinct customs.

At the heart of the discussion lies the United Moorish Science Temple of America's non-sectarian approach—a deliberate strategy to overcome the divisions that have historically plagued Moorish communities. Rather than enforcing rigid uniformity, this body embraces unity through shared principles while respecting each temple's right to establish specific practices. "We walk a middle path," explains Cozmo El, "standing firm where needed but never being petty about differences that shouldn't divide us."

The conversation reveals fascinating details about Moorish symbolism, particularly regarding their distinctive headwear. The fez, with its various colors—red for righteousness, black for justice, green for growth, and purple for magistrate status—carries profound meaning. Even its tassel represents both the "umbilical cord to the universe" and the sun's rays with 144 strands symbolizing united Asiatics. For those seeking deeper understanding, Cozmo El has authored "Secrets of the Fez," exploring these ancient traditions.

Perhaps most valuable is the practical information about Moorish temple operations. Annual conventions serve as legislative sessions where policies are established for the coming year. New temples begin as study groups with at least seven dedicated members before earning official recognition. The Mufti training program develops security specialists through disciplined protocols that protect the community while fostering personal growth.

Throughout the discussion, Cozmo El emphasizes pragmatic nation-building over theological differences. The United Moorish Science Temple focuses on land acquisition, education initiatives, elder care, and community service—tangible expressions of sovereignty that transcend philosophical debates. This balanced approach demonstrates how ancient traditions can remain relevant by addressing contemporar

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
what's going on.
Everybody out there is ronbrown, lmt, the people's fitness
professional, uh, soul brothernumber one, reporting for duty,
and this is a new yorker'sperspective.
I think I said that already.
Um, and we got the, thenational grand sheik, cosmo l,
in the building united moorishscience temple of america.
Uh, be be sure to like, comment, share, subscribe, super chat.

(00:37):
I said it on the last podcast,I'm gonna say it on every single
podcast, just to get it, justso it gets through.
This is a media outlet, right?
So we're building this podcastto then eventually become a
media company.
Well, we are a media company.
Nyp is a media company for ourpeople.

(00:59):
We created this to create moreof a balance in the internet
space, because we notice there'snot much of a balance, there's
a lot of buffoonery out there.
So we're coming with thebalance.
So that's the whole purpose ofit.
Help us build, send us SuperChat.
Also, we have NYP Talk ShowCash App.

(01:23):
Nyp Talk Show Cash App, superChat.
Nyp Talk Show Cash App.
Nyp Talk Show Cash App, superChat.
Nyp Talk Show Cash App, cashApp.
Anyway, thank you, angelo.
Okay, peace, angelo Joseph.
I really appreciate you.
See, brothers and sisters, Ireally didn't understand this
game, this media thing.
I was like you know what, maybethey'll just, you know, notice

(01:47):
what we're doing and send ussome money.
You don't have to ask, no, yougotta, you gotta tell people.
All right, thank you, brotherangela.
Angelo, joseph, national grandchic in a building before we go
into it.
Oh, who's that?
We got a special guest today.
His name is mikey fever thisguy's terrible.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Peace, peace, peace to the fans and listeners.
Man, you've been busy, busylisten.
Outside of this, we have jobsfull-time.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
full-time.
They are demanding Yep andchildren.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
So so national, before we go into it.
United Moorish National.
United Moorish Science Templeof America.
What is that?
What is that exactly?

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Islam.
So United Moorish ScienceTemple of America is a
collection of non-sectariantemples.
If they go to, or if you go toProphetNoahJualiorg, you'll see
the various temples involved inthat project and it pretty much
represents the grand body that Irepresent.

(03:02):
When I say national grand sheChic, some people tend to think
that that means over all thetemples, and that's not the case
.
There are various grand bodies,and so we function with the
United Moorish Science Temple ofAmerica and, again, all our
bios are up there, all ournational officers, and so that's

(03:22):
what that is.
And for those that want to saywell, where did you get United
from?
You know why not just MorishScience Temple of America, as
you were stating earlier,there's a lot of buffoonery,
there's a lot of disrespect, alot of disunity, and so in the
Holy Quran, chapter 47, holyInstruction 12, it speaks of

(03:45):
Nobu Juali being the founder ofthe uniting of the Moorish
Science Temple of America,meaning that in his foresight he
saw that there needed to be auniting of the temples.
And so we draw our program fromthat key.
And you know, irrespective ofwhat anyone else is doing, we're
now sectarian.
We work with all temples, allbodies and, uh, in the spirit of

(04:10):
unity, which is pretty muchuniversally agreed upon in the
movement today that we needunity yes, sir, yes, sir, okay,
so, um, I want to go, we'regonna, we're gonna.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
I said it'll be best to just finish off right here
with the functions of the temple, because I think we did two
already, so the third one.
I think that'll clear it all upand then we can move on to
other subjects.
So now you know, you explainedhow the temples function.
They're different.
All temples are not the same.

(04:45):
There's a grand body I want totalk about what happens in, I
think this month Is it thismonth right In Chicago and right
now, off the top of my head.
I just forgot.
But what is it called?
It's like a national meetingConvention, the convention.
So's like a national meetingconvention, the convention.

(05:06):
So you know, during thisconvention, this is like, from
what I understand, only certainpeople are allowed to go to this
convention Sheiks.
So what is the purpose of thisconvention and why only sheiks
are allowed?

Speaker 3 (05:28):
purpose of this convention and why only sheiks
are allowed.
Yeah, so you have uh again,because there are different
bodies.
Uh, you have different times ofconvention.
You have some in september, youhave some in november and you
even have some in december.
Um, and the khal, we have oursin November.
It's not to replace the Chicagoconvention, but there's more of

(05:50):
a statewide convention.
However, it has seemed to inrecent days, merge with the
uniting movement, so you haverepresentation from other states
as well in that same spirit.
But the convention is a meetingwhere various meetings and
various conferences take place.

(06:10):
It's a show of unity, it's amigration, so to speak, to
Chicago.
There's also, again, otherconventions in other regions,
and what it is is when thesheiks get together.
Grand Sheiks, sheiks and otherofficers come together and

(06:31):
create policy and make law forthe year going forth, which is
going to affect all those underthat body.
And then there are also theADAPT chambers, open for those
who wish to go through the ADAPTChamber which we talked about
on previous show, and there'salso celebrations of the legacy

(06:52):
of the prophets.
So it's going to look different, different years.
It's going to look beingcreated and enforced and that's
going to affect going forwardthe whole year, everyone that's
under those particular bodies.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
OK, so we're in.
We're in November, and whyNovember For Khalifa?

Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Khalifa yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
Well, you know, to be honest, the whole Khalifa
Council came as a result ofrealizing that at the time that
we formed it, you know, which isa different time than it is now
, there was a lot less unity andthere was a lot more going back

(07:44):
and forth and bickering overwho was who and what was what, a
lot more division.
And around that time you hadplayers that came from Chicago
into California and helpedestablish temples and things of
that nature.
And as we began to work withthose temples over a period of
time, divisions end up coming,and I don't want to rehash

(08:09):
things but over finances andother things, how stuff was
going.
And so there was just so muchtension that California decided
well, look, we have our sheiks,we have our adepts that have
been going to convention foryears on end.
Sheiks, we have our adepts thathave been going to convention
for years on end.
Why don't we?

(08:32):
Since, nationally, you know, theSupreme Grand Council had
broken up and it was like who'sin leadership now, what do we do
?
And we realized that if thismuch disarray could come about
by one council the SupremeCouncil, supreme Grand Council,
breaking up then what we neededto do was more solidify our
local and our state temples sothat if there was conflict and

(08:53):
there was chaos nationally, thatstatewide we would still be
able to function.
If a federal or nationalgovernment falls, then the
states shouldn't crumble, andthat's what was happening.
So we solidified, firmed upCalifornia.
November was chosen because itwas neither October or September

(09:18):
.
We didn't want to give theimpression that we were trying
to compete with anybody.
Many of our people still go toChicago for those conventions.
It was just a statewideconvention to offer those things
that are offered in Mecca, inChicago, to our people on the
ground in California and also todistance ourselves from a lot

(09:42):
of the folly that was happeningnationwide.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Makes perfect sense.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Perfect sense.
Okay, so Khalifa, california,california, november.
Uh, and you said, um, you havebrothers and sisters from the
Khalifa demonstration going tothe convention in September, and
September as well, and Octoberand even December.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
You know, for those that have a thing is we're non
sectarian, so that's the beautyof it.
Like you can be a part of yourtemple, you can demonstrate
those whatever they'redemonstrating, and we're not
going to be like, oh you shouldgo on this month, or oh, you
should go on this month,demonstrate whatever you
demonstrate.
But when we come together as acouncil uh, like the brother was

(10:31):
talking about earlier on yourshow, previous Federation, so to
speak we use the term council.
It enables us to not be dividedby our individual customs and
traditions and the age oldargument of who's right and
who's wrong, because there arepressing needs.
You know who's right and who'swrong.

(10:52):
On convention, time isn't goingto ensure that our people have
land, have food, clothing,shelter, schools and the things
that are necessary for nationsto have to be functioning
nations as opposed to just beingthe people, which is the
definition of nation as well butto actually be self-governing
and to be independent, you haveto have all of those things in

(11:15):
place so you don't have todepend on anybody else for it.
I mean, it's really just one,two, three common sense.
So we decided to focus onbusiness, we decided to focus on
education.
We decided to focus on land anddo it collectively.
We decided also to focus onhomes for our elderly and

(11:40):
charity, feeding the people.
And we're doing all of this.
And so each region is doing itsthing.
But when we come together inNovember and each region start
enumerating and giving thereport for what they're doing,
boy, it's nationhood business.
Because you get to seeeverybody oh, you're doing this,
you're doing it so collectivelyas a nation we're fulfilling

(12:02):
all of those necessities.
But it is about growth anddevelopment and getting to the
point where we can import andexport the successes that we
have to whatever region needsthem.
But if the region doesn't needthat program, it's no need to

(12:22):
try to force that program, youknow.
So it's really about workingtogether and in unity.
It's really about workingtogether and in unity.
Right now we have a temple inNew York, arizona, california,
in California, Los Angeles,oakland, here in Hawaii,
hagerstown, maryland, and againI mentioned last time through
the newspaper, we work with theMorris and Syracuse Grand

(12:43):
Governor, joseph Young Bay andhis beautiful wife Young Bay and
other Moors.
You know Governor Howard Bay,and you'll see also that I
toured Moorish Science Temple ofAmerica Inc.
Temple with brother, assistantGrand Sheik, national Assistant

(13:05):
Grand Sheik of the A Hopkins Bay.
So we're kind of an anomalybecause of the relationships
that we've established in beingable to hey, you know, connect
with temples on what we canconnect on and leave them to the
customs and traditions thatthey're able to establish.

(13:27):
Based on Chapter 47, key 14,creating your own laws and
customs and Act 1, the GrandSheik is empowered and chairman
empowered to make law andenforce law.
So it doesn't make sense for usto try to go enforce law on
another temple when they havethe power to create and enforce
law on another temple.
When they have the power tocreate an enforced law, it
doesn't make any sense for us tobrowbeat somebody about their

(13:48):
customs when they have a rightto create their own customs and
usages, as long as it's inconjunction and can be traced
back to what the prophet wasdoing, you know.
So that's pretty much how wemove.
And again,prophetnoblejewaleeorg, that's
pretty much how we move.
And again,prophetnoblejewaleeorg, all of
our bios are there, the creationinception of each temple and

(14:10):
each officer is there.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Everyone has history that goes back.
You know, some of us go back 30years, some of us go back three
or four, you know.
Okay, so now, oh man, I lost mytrain of thought.
This is like really importantpart of me.
Let's say let's go with thisMike.
Let's say Mike wants to joinyour temple in New York or under

(14:40):
your lineage Jurisdiction.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
Where would he join?
So if he wanted to join thetemple in New York and say, if,
if me and him were building, orif he went to a prophet, noble,
jew Aliorg, and said, hey, Iwant to, uh, I like what you all
are doing, I want to get withwhat you all are doing, then we
will see who's closest to him,where he's at, and then we will
send him to that temple.
If so, if he was in New York,he would go to the New York

(15:13):
temple.
The information is up on thesite.
It's in Queens, jamaica, queens.
However, sometimes we findourselves where we don't have a
temple that is so close.
So then we give people theoption say, hey, you can either
attend one of our Zoom templesor we can link you up with the

(15:34):
temple that we recommend that'sin your area, that's closest to
you.
And the reason we do it thatway is because we don't
recommend all temples.
Not all temples are the same.
Some temples are, are you?
Some temples do have theirissues.
We've recommended templesbefore and people have come back
and then the blowback is on us.
So we only recommend to peoplethat we have relationships with,

(15:54):
but they don't have tonecessarily just be in our body
in order to do that order to dothat.
Say, for example, there's abody in California Temple 80 in
Los Angeles and they're underKeno Bay's.

(16:17):
That's their supreme grasssheep and I send people to them
all the time if it fits withthem and they're in that region,
as opposed to being so hungryfor members to try to pull
everybody where we're at and itjust doesn't work logistically.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
I have a question why would there be issues if people
don't agree with what you'redoing?
Because it sounds like you guysare doing a lot of community
work and a lot of upliftment,like you're just not up there
speaking all nice and I don'tknow if you do.
No, it's true.
Like are you?
Are you dealing within yourcipher, as they put it?
Are you dealing within the lawcontext or the spiritual, the

(16:52):
religious aspect of more science?

Speaker 3 (16:54):
yeah, well.
Well, it's all.
It's all a spiritual battle.
You know it's all about, uh, uh.
You know wickedness and highand low places, so, and they
manifest in the form of people,some, some people.
You know a lot of the peoplethat hate.
I don't even know personally.
Is it somebody that feelsjilted, based on the past or

(17:18):
something?
Maybe you know they.
They weren't upright orwhatever, and we cast them from
our midst and they couldn'thandle that and so now they're a
hater and they're going to goaround and spread hate with
everyone else.
There are some temples that havehistory, have known to be
involved in an illegal activity,and you know it's just like a

(17:41):
family.
You know the good uncles, youknow the bad uncles, you know.
You know the good aunties, youknow the good aunties that you
don't want to leave yourchildren with.
However, the sheep know thesound of their shepherd's voice,
so some people is fine withthem and they can, and that's
what they do.
So, again, because some of usgo back about 30 years and we

(18:04):
know some of these, thesehistories, some people you know
there's a lot.
There's generational curseswhere, if you're not with this
body, some person's way ofrecruiting is downing all the
other bodies in order to getthem into their temple.
And so you know, there's thosethings.
But again, that's why wedecided to roll with the uniting

(18:27):
of the Moran Science Temple ofAmerica to end those
generational curses and say, heylook, you don't, we don't,
we're not hungry for yourmembership like that.
If you like what we're doing,you can rock with us.
But if you're from anothertemple, you got to get
permission from your grand sheik, you know, across the board,
because we don't want to causeconfusion and chaos across

(18:49):
temple lines.
If you're not with the temple,then you're more free to go
ahead and join and if, for somereason, you don't fit where
we're at, we do have templesthat we work with that aren't
under the jurisdiction but wework with in unity, that we can
help send them to as well.
So I don't I don't want to gointo specifics and I know you

(19:14):
don't want me to go into thespecifics of why because that
again creates the bad blood.
I've done that in the past andand have regretted that, you
know, because it makes it looklike we're into that and we're
not.
So we just, we just let it beknown.
You know, buyer, beware, uh,and and make sure you research

(19:34):
what what you're getting intoindeed.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
Now I want to ask this was what.
This was the question I wantedto ask.
So move the MIT right.
Mit, mm-hmm.
Divine minister, are they twoseparate paths or is it just one
path?
How's that go to get into theadept chamber, uh-huh?

Speaker 3 (20:02):
so a Mufti could be a divine minister.
A divine minister could be aMufti.
It's just more of knowing themember and knowing what their
abilities are and what they'reseeking.
You know, some people may noteven be seeking divine minister,

(20:25):
but you'd be like man, I see adivine minister in you.
You know why don't you checkout this curriculum and see what
it's about?
Some people may come in.
They already have a backgroundin security.
That's obviously.
They're going to make a naturalchief move T.
They just need to learn ourcustoms and usages on how to do
it.
The adept chamber is general.

(20:45):
You know you have to understandthat there's a difference
between sheiks.
Sheiks are a trustee likeposition, but then officers they
have an office that'sadministrative, and then adepts
are are their own thing as well.

(21:07):
That means they're adept in theknowledge.
So you could be an adept andnot a sheik.
You could be a sheik but not anofficer.
So it just depends on the paththat one wants to take and if
they also listen to the adviceof what someone in leadership
sees in them.
So there's a grooming, but it'sbased on the natural talents of

(21:28):
the person.
Like pretty much in anydemonstration, you don't want to
be putting apples over herewith oranges and oranges with
apples.
You observe, you see thededication, you see the
faithfulness, you see theability to articulate in one,
you see the ability for one tobe observant and to give reports
, and you can know who's goingto be your divine minister,

(21:50):
who's going to be your mufti.
When I came up, you knoweverybody was considered a mufti
, de facto, so to speak, becauseeverybody, the prophet, called
on all members to protect thetemple and to protect the
prophet.
So everyone, in that generalsense, is responsible for that.
But you know of, of course, inan official capacity as an

(22:11):
officer, then you know thatthere is going to be some
training there okay, now.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Now, what's the difference between the, the uh,
first off, the color of the fez.
Okay, you have the burgundy andthen you have, you have the red
, the flaming red fez, and thenyou have the black fez.
What are the differences?

Speaker 3 (22:39):
Well, I'll tell you the difference between the red
and black fez in general.
Right, because there's reallynot too much of a difference
between the red and the maroon.
Other than custom.
Some trace the red fez back toNoble Juweli, because he

(23:00):
appeared in Chicago with theflaming red fez.
So some say, hey, it should beflaming red and not maroon.
But custom-wise, moors haveworn red and maroon.
So that's another one of thosethings we don't let divide us,
right?
That's a thing of preferenceand it's a thing of availability

(23:23):
.
For a while you couldn't reallyget flaming red Fezzes and the
Freemasons had the monopoly onthe the fez industry because
Moors weren't making them.
I myself took it upon myself tolearn how to make fezes and I
started making fezes for Moors.
I created a company, khalifaFez Co, and I sold fezes for

(23:43):
years, handmade.
They were made with thematerials that I had used to and
had access to, and they weren'texactly like the fez that came
from the Masons.
That's why we call them aKhalifa fez.
But many satisfied customers.
I just got to the point whereit was too big.
I couldn't continue making themand I didn't want to begin to

(24:04):
make inferior product, you know.
So I put it on hold.
So, to answer your question, theblack fez is usually the fez
that you're going to see, that'sworn by the mufti right.
The muftis are the sergeant atarms, so to speak, lawgivers,
governors, and that representsfirmness, represents firmness,

(24:34):
constancy, master of passions,justice and desires.
You know, these are the lessonsthat I was given decades ago
when I was in preparation.
And then the red fez representsrighteousness and consciousness
, and so the fez circle aroundthe head represents finite
knowledge and the fez circlearound the head represents
finite knowledge, and the fedcircle around the head
represents infinite wisdom.

(24:54):
The red feds are going to bemore your ministers, your
teachers, your ills.
A lot of time and many timesthe bays, the governors, the law
enforcers are going to wear theblack feds.
And so that's the basics of ofwhat that is, and again, it's
all determined, based oncharacter, ok, and natural

(25:20):
ability.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
I have a question about turbans.
I see some of them wear tendingto wear turbans.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
Is that Turbans are also a tradition.
You'll see Prophet Noah wearinga turban as well with the
feather.
Each color has its meaning, forexample, white.
White means purity.
Purity means God.
God means ruler of the land.
Red is still going to berighteousness and consciousness.

(25:52):
It also represents the cherrytree or the Moorish flag as well
.
The original flag didn't have astar, you know that was placed
on later and so that fez isrelated to the cherry tree.
There are some other symbolismsthat have it related to the
woman as well, and you couldprobably put that together, you

(26:16):
know yourself.
Green represents growth and isoften worn by sheiks.
Purple, which you'll see, is themagistrate or lawgivers, and
you'll see that in the Circle 7,holy Quran of the Morishan

(26:36):
Temple of America, in chaptermagistrate and subject, it
speaks of O thou, who areclothed in purple and referring
to the magistrate.
So you know those are basics.
There's layers of meaning.
You know you can go deeper intothese, but these are just the
basics.
On the colors and pretty muchthe rank, there is a rank

(26:59):
attached to it, if one knowsthis.
Sometimes you have peoplegleaning things from online.
They don't know because theyhaven't been in a temple, they
don't know the customs, theydon't know the traditions, and
so they might be wearingsomething that they may not know
what it means.
You ask them hey, you knowabout this and they won't know.
So you really have to talk topeople that are in the temple

(27:22):
and have studied to actuallyknow what it's about.
Believe me, there's a lot ofpeople out there right now that
are more conscious and they'regleaning what they can from
online, but a lot of things theyjust don't know.
I saw a video the other day of aguy trying to tear me down or
whatever, and he didn't evenknow that Prophet Noah

(27:43):
established the body politics.
So you know, just make sureagain, buyer, beware who you're
talking to and don't take myword for things You'll notice.
I give references.
You know.
Take those references and lookthem up so you can see I'm on
point.
That's, that's our traditionnot to just say stuff and don't
have any reference.

(28:03):
It has to be traced back to ourcustoms and traced back to the
prophet, the Koran, etc.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
to our customs and traced back to the Prophet, the
Quran, etc.
Indeed.
Now I want to ask about I havea few questions now the tassel.
Should it be on the left sideof the fez, or should it be on
the right side of the fez?
Or should it be?
How should the tassel be?

Speaker 3 (28:25):
Well, you're asking all the questions today Islam.
So again this goes to custom.
Traditionally it flows free, sothe tassel can go.
You know, 360, because itrepresents 360 degrees of
knowledge.
Some people have a custom oftying it to the right side as

(28:50):
opposed to the left side.
And why is that?
Because to differentiatethemselves from the Freemasons
who tie their tassel down to theleft side, so some more as a
hey, you know, we're going to doours to the right.
It can get a little cumbersomein your face and stuff like this
, and when you move in, you knowblowing and all of that, but

(29:17):
traditionally it's a 360.
However, I do understand why onemay have it to the right side
to differentiate between thosewho tie it down to the left side
.
In essence saying we'rerevealers, not concealers.
You know it's aboutunderstanding each other's
customs as opposed to tearingeach other's customs down,
because something like that isshouldn't be something that
divides us from getting to thegreater work.
So we try to.

(29:38):
We try to walk a middle path.
We can't do it all the time andwe'll stand firm on what we
need to stand firm on, but wedefinitely not petty about it
and it the the tassel representsthe umbilical cord as well to
the universe islam.
so, again, there's layers ofmeaning, uh to this um, the
tassel being connected to theumbilical cord, and the 12

(30:04):
circles on top of the fezrepresent universal law.
Again, like I told you, redalso have something to do with
the woman and the bloodline.
So there's a, as a matter offact, on my, on my YouTube, I
have a couple of videos up therethat go into the meaning of the
Fez, and I also have a book onAmazon, the Secrets of the Fez,

(30:27):
by Cosmo Ill, that goes into ita little further for those that
are interested in that atamazoncom.
So, again, even the fact thatyou know these strands represent
the rays of the sun, buttraditionally there's 144 of
them, and so it also representsthe coming together of 144,000,

(30:50):
uniting up Asiatics and angels.
So there's a lot of symbolismthat is connected to our
national headdress, as it shouldbe, and we could definitely go
on talking for hours about itand unfolding its symbolism,
even its origin, you know, andthe types of fezzes that they

(31:10):
have around the world.
This isn't the most ancientstyle fez that there is, even
this tassel being related to theprince's lock in ancient Egypt,
where you'll see the lock onthe side of the head and it's
shaped exactly like the fez.
This uh goes back and again.

(31:32):
We could unfold it and unfoldit.
But for those who want moreknowledge, secrets of the fez,
they could get that book allright, that's peace now.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Uh.
Five on the left.
Two on the right right.
Yes, well, how do you say itRight?
Two on the right.
I said it right.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
Now.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Wait a minute.
No, five on the right, two onthe left.
No wait, Five on the left, twoon the right.
You got it.
Yeah, I got it right.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, so why the angle?
The angle of your arms is itsupposed to be 90 degrees, like
perfectly?
And does your hand have to beshaped like this and your finger
like this right, 90 degrees,perfect angles, facing the east,

(32:26):
your heels together in thatposition.
Is that custom?

Speaker 3 (32:36):
islam?
Uh, again, that's going to vary.
What's universal is?
You are rising high on theseventh.
Some rise on the seven, somerise high on the seven, some
take it up like this evenfurther.
You know it depends on theseven.
Some rise high on the seven,some take it up like this even
further.
You know it depends on thecustom.
I will point out that when youhave them at the 90 degree
angles like this, then you'redealing with the, the.

(33:04):
I believe it's the Ka symbol.
In ancient Egypt.
You'll see the Ka symbol likethis.
So some may be, you know,moving in that science.
Then you have some that bringit right here to up to the head,
and then you have those thatyou know extreme with it.
They bring it up.
So the main thing is that you'rerising high on the seven, five
on the left, two on the right,representing it's best to have

(33:27):
them together, obviously,because you don't want to, you
know, have them divided.
But you know, again, we're notgoing to be petty Five on the
left, two on the right, thatrepresent the seven ether planes
and the seven creative spirits,the Elohim, and you know five
that fell to the earthly realmand the physical plane, and and

(33:47):
the two that held firm becausethey were ever strong, you know.
So that's going to be universal, as uh as as long as we just
rising high on the seven.
But how ones do it is going tovary, okay.
Okay, if you ask me how I do it, I do it.
I.
I raise it up at the 90 degreeangle.
You know, the mathematics isperfection, right?

(34:11):
So 90 degrees represent 90degrees perpendicular to the
earth, right, independent andfearless.
So so that's how I demonstrateit.
But again, I don't sweatanybody if they, if they're not,
if they ask me why I'm doing itthat way, I'll let them know.
If they think it's cool, theywant to adopt that custom,
they're more than welcome to it.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
That way, I'll let them know if they think it's
cool, they want to adopt thatcustom, they're more than
welcome to it.
Gotcha, okay, now, um as far asthe um.
So one thing that stands out alot when people complain
complain about the temples isthe, the, the singing, right.
So it's like, oh, it's like wejust go in to church.

(34:50):
Man, I could have stayed in thechurch if I wanted that, you
know, but from the way I see itis, the singing and the songs
are important.
It's the motivation, it's thevibration and you know it keeps
people, you know, calm, you knowit keeps people, you know calm,

(35:10):
and you know, and I would sayit helps with, I would say,
meditation, if you will, right.
So like an open eye meditationand like just getting in the
mood in the zone, so to speak.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
It raises the vibration, right, the tonality,
it sets the tone, as you said.
It keeps you focused, it keepsyou locked in on the agenda you
know, indeed as.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
Long yeah, I mean, we moorish americans, you know,
and we have a long-standingtradition of griot, you know,
whether it be singing, whetherit be poetry, whether it be, you
know these are traditions thathave been handed down from our

(35:55):
ancient forefathers.
You know, we did it all throughslavery and within those uh
songs, every nation has theirsongs.
Every nation has their songs.
Why would we be a nationwithout songs?
It clears the ethers beforethings starts and, like the

(36:16):
brother said, sets the tone.
So I've seen someone just putvicar, yeah, into the you know
the same demonstration as vicarand you dealing with uh, uh,
resonant frequency, right, youknow, which is very important we
all getting on the samefrequency.
So those songs, like thebrother said, are putting us in

(36:41):
tune and so that is a tradition.
Just because we MoorishAmericans don't mean that we
leave everything that we weredoing and adopt some weird,
strange culture.
No, a lot of that comes with us, all the positive, and if it's
negative and there's some goodto it, then we alchemize that as
well.
Now, what happens is, when therebecame divisions within the

(37:07):
Moorish Science Temple ofAmerica, you had those who
specialized in certain thingsand as they began to develop
temples, that's what theyfocused on.
Some were more of theadministrative aspect of the
temple.
So when you see their temples,they're going to have a real
tight administrative program.
Their paperwork's going to beon point and it's going to be

(37:28):
running like that.
Some left more with thespirituality and the ritual, not
to say they don't have anadministrative aspect as well,
but they left with that ether,and so that's the ether that
you're going to get from thosetemples, and that's why it's
good to travel around to thevarious temples and and see the

(37:51):
traditions that they preserve,because you, when you do that
now, you get a full picture ofwhat the temple is like.
You only get a fraction of apicture of what the temple is
like when you isolate yourselffrom other mores, because some
groups are holding on to certaintraditions.
And there's nothing wrong withthe gospel, you know, there's

(38:12):
nothing wrong with singing thegospel.
Whether it be Vicar, whether itbe Nam-ye-ring-ko, whether it
be the humming of the Buddhisttemple, there's always sound and
resonant frequency that'sconnected with it and that's
just.
That's just our tradition inthe way that we've done it.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
Okay, that's peace.
So now, um, you know, we spokeabout the uh singing and um, now
I don't know if you can go intoMIT.
If you, I don't know how.
You know, your demonstration,your temple organization does it
, but how is it?

(38:53):
How do you?
You get requests?
No, how can I say this?
How do you get, how do youbecome a part of the MIT, mufti
and Training, and then I'll justtell you my experience, right,
so someone requested that Ibecome a part of you know, um,

(39:13):
mostly in training.
So what I did was I went out toNew Jersey and, um, you know, a
lot of mores were there and, uh, it was just so smooth as far
as the teaching, it was likesecurity, right, but it wasn't

(39:40):
like the military, like the army, but it was sort of like the
army, though, right, but it waslike in a smooth way it was done
.
I don't want to go into too muchdetail, but it was like in a
smooth way it was done.
I don't want to like go intotoo much detail.
Let's just say, for instance,it was hot in the place.
We were in Hot, right, we allhad suits on.

(40:10):
We had to stand up for a longperiod of time and listen to and
listen.
So is that?
How is it done in in yourdemonstration?

Speaker 3 (40:19):
it's long uh.
So some people use the termmufti, others use warden vestry
men, which you'll see on the uhback of the 101s.
You know, you, you, you gonnastand a lot being a move.
T like you standing is is whenI was young.
I mean, I might be posting upfor like three hours straight

(40:42):
while somebody's speaking andI'm just, I'm just standing up
there.
You know, I'm waiting, I'mthinking it looked like they
about to end in five minutes andthey go for another 30 minutes
and I'm just I'm thinking itlooked like they bought the end
in five minutes and they go foranother 30 minutes.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
But I don't mean to cut you.
Is that the psychology with?

Speaker 3 (40:58):
that Like well.
Well, you know it serves twopurposes.
Number one is the discipline.
It's the discipline, you know,if you're going to be a move to,
if you're going to be dealingin security, so to speak.
So, if you're going to be aMufti, if you're going to be
dealing in security, so to speakwhich is what it really breaks
down to and protecting people,protecting property, protecting
the prophet and the temple, youwant to be disciplined.

(41:21):
You want to be as disciplinedas other people that do the same
thing, that are disciplinedfrom military background, law
enforcement background ormartial arts background and are
some of the teachers in thesethings, to make sure that you
can secure your people, becausewe got families, men, women,

(41:47):
children.
You see, these days, you knowpeople assassinating people,
right, you know, for theirbeliefs and for what they're
saying.
It's not nothing new, they'vebeen doing that, and so, yeah,
we have to prepare, and soposting up is one of the main
aspects of being in a, being aMufti, as you know.

(42:07):
You know you want to be able todefend yourself.
You want to be able to.
Even more important than all ofthat is being able to observe
and report and recognize whatyou need to recognize.
You know.
Again, yeah, I can't go offinto to the tree, but what I can
tell you is that the standingis definitely a part of it.

(42:28):
The standing is definitely apart of it, but it serves a
couple of purposes because whileyou're standing there and
you're posting up, you'reusually in the most important
places.
You know and you're getting tohear things that other people
are not able to hear.
That's shaping yourunderstanding more so than
others.

(42:48):
That's one of the fringebenefits.
Again, I told you earlier whenpeople would come down they
would request the Moors.
In California I did securityfor people like Kwame Ture,
elaine Brown, erica Huggins,even with Brother Chairman Fred

(43:11):
Hampton Jr, even with BrotherChairman Fred Hampton Jr,
different delegates from Braziland Africa and other nations,
and I learned a lot doing that.
It's a funny funny thingbecause after I completed my
seven lessons and I got my headshaved and got my fez, this was
the thing we did.
We have in Los Angeles Moore'sDay and this is a Los Angeles

(43:38):
holiday.
The proclamation was signed byMayor Tom Bradley at the time.
This is how long it was.
This was, I believe, 1987 iswhen he signed the proclamation
is when he signed theproclamation, and so every year
for Moore's Day the Moores wouldgo on the steps of City Hall
and would feed the homelessthere, because the homeless
would gather around the CityHall.

(43:59):
So my first move T post wasgoing and posting up on the
steps of City Hall and feedingthe poor.
And at that time the policecame and, you know, was trying
to move us along.
It was like no, you can't dothat.
Moors have been doing that foryears.
But these guys got it in theirhead.
They're going to make the Moorsmove and do whatever.

(44:21):
And I was told I had to standmy post.
No matter what the police say,I don't move, I just stand my
post, I just stand my post.
Eventually I end up going inwith the delegation of some of
the higher ups, the grass sheiksand stuff at that time, to go
talk to the mayor, and I wasposting up outside the mayor's
office, you know.

(44:42):
And when the Morris cameoutside the mayor's office that
you know, the police were toldto leave us alone and let us do
our thing.
And so I went back out and Ihappily posted up again.
So it's those kinds ofexperiences that when you are
part of the Move T-Force thatyou get to see more as an action
and more as being respected andand having a sense of of

(45:04):
manhood.
You know that's added to you,so I just wanted to share that,
that little piece.
It is a very important training, but also the experience being
out in the field is also.
Learning in the field is veryimportant as well, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
So now, okay, so once you become a mufti right or a
divine minister, how is thatpath?
Well, you already explained.
How is it chosen?
I would say.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
You can request it or be requested.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Okay, okay.
Now, once that happens, what'snext?
Do you get paperwork, do youget more lessons and?

Speaker 3 (45:48):
then, yeah, you go through training and you
complete your training, you getyour certificate and you get
your post.
And then you, now you hold inthe responsibility of that post
as a chief, move to assistantchief, move to move tees up
under them, you know.
So, if one can, oh, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
And now is this for men and women.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
Yes, well, in our tradition, men and women,
although there are somelimitations on the woman's side
of things and there are somelimitations on the man's side of
things.
For example, sometimes we havean event and people may need to
be frisked before they come in.
It's not all the time, butsometimes that is the case.

(46:37):
So a man isn't going to friskthe woman and a woman isn't
going to frisk the man.
So that's why it's important tohave women on the moot teeth
force.
Excuse me, to deal with thesituations that involve women.
If you need to ask a woman toleave or something like that, or
escort someone off the premisesbecause they're doing something
they shouldn't be doing, thenyou need to have women in those

(47:00):
positions.
The training is very similar,but not the same, because we
have to cater to the characterand the creation of each person,
the masculine and the feminine.
So things are, there's going toobviously be some differences
in that training but, yes, bothare employed in our tradition.
In some temples, the women arenot a part of the Mufti force.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
OK now.
So once you go through theMufti force, you get your
lessons.
After you finish that, you getyour certificate and things.
What is the process?
To become like a Grand Sheik,get your own charter and stuff
like that?
Can you talk about that or no?

Speaker 3 (47:43):
Yeah, I mean you know there's a I spoke on it roughly
.
On the other show that there'sa curriculum.
There are things that you wantto make sure that you know, like
the divine constitution andbylaws, nationality card, 101
questions.
You know all of the things thatyou need to be familiar with to

(48:05):
teach and deliver the messagethat goes for a sheik or divine
minister.
Divine minister also take onother aspects, such as knowing
how to minister counseling,things of that nature, and
they're taught by those who areadept in these fields, that ones

(48:34):
have prerequisite knowledge inthese fields, as opposed to just
throwing anybody on in anyposition so that we can say that
we have positions filled.
Divine ministers have to dealwith families.
You know they have to deal withman and wife and issues that
may occur.
So there's a specializedtraining.
But there's also say, forexample, divine ministers need
to know how to perform amarriage obligation Right.

(48:56):
They need to know thedifference between marriage and
obligation.
They need to know how to bringthe children in the world and
what rituals to say during thatprocess and what documents go
with that process, go with thatprocess, how to prepare those
documents and how to seal thosedocuments so that they can be
used to protect our members insociety, in the greater society,

(49:19):
you know, which goes into thereligious identity documents
that are necessary to protectmembers and to claim members
into the society so that theydon't have to have the same
documents that civil society has, which some of those are often

(49:40):
in contradiction to our way oflife, not all of them, but some
of them.
But when you're self-governingas a religious society or body
politic, then you do have theability to create certain
documents and certify thosedocuments when needed from, say,

(50:00):
the civil government.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Okay, okay.
So now a study group to study.
So, study group creating astudy group to eventually create
, have your own temple.
Is that the path, is that howit goes?

Speaker 3 (50:26):
It depends, if it depends on on who you're dealing
with.
You mentioned charter earlierand there's two ways to have a
temple.
One is a subordinate templeWell, they're all subordinate
temples but one is a subordinatetemple without a charter.
And then there are branchtemples with charters, and
there's a difference.
Even just lawfully and legally,branch temples are considered a

(50:50):
branch.
They carry the same liabilityas the mother temple, whereas
subordinate temples have theirown.
They have their own liability.
So, say, for example,subordinate temple that is not a
charter temple.
If they were to get in sometrouble or be doing something,
then it wouldn't affect on thebranch or the or the branch

(51:10):
temple, because they're not abranch.
So there are some differencesthere.
Ones can have charters ifthey're interested in being a
branch temple.
That's what the charters arefor to to start and create a
temple.
And this is another thing thatthat this guy was trying to talk
about, that he just obviously,just because he hasn't been a
part of the movement, doesn'treally understand that all

(51:32):
temples have study groups andyou start with the study group
too, because you just don't slapno temple together.
The study group is to make surethat everyone's prepared and
within that study group.
Once you have at least sevengood, good members a part of
that study group, they're readyto hold offices and you can see

(51:53):
that according to chapter 47,that they know how to open their
meetings and that everything is.
They know the laws, they knowhow to govern, they know their
fiduciary duty with dues andemergency fund and all of these
things.
Now you can, in a sense,upgrade them to an official
temple where they will carry onofficial duties in the, in the,

(52:16):
in the interim, they're learning, they're in a learning process
and so they're not under thesame expectations of a
legitimate temple.
Once they or an official temple,I should say once they become
an official temple, then yeah,there's going to be obviously a
lot more scrutiny and you knowthey would be open to reprimands

(52:41):
if things are going wrong ormaybe even losing their temple
if they're violating the laws,which doesn't occur often, but
sometimes it does and of courseyou have to have that because
you can't have temples runningaround doing any type of thing
that's reflecting bad on theoverall movement.

(53:03):
A lot of times you'll see outhere it's a lot of subgroups
that don't have a genealogy tothe Morse Science Temple of
America at all, but they'vejumped up and they started doing
something, and you know it'simportant for the public to know
.
The difference Doesn't meanthat they're bad.
They could be doing good right,but there are customs and

(53:25):
usages.
And I keep saying customs andusages because things, in order
for things to be lawful, theyhave to be done according to the
customs and usages, and ifthey're not, the government
knows what the customs andusages are.
So if you're not doing itproperly, you're not going to
get the same result, your stuffisn't going to be accepted and

(53:48):
you might even get yourself in aworld of trouble.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
I got you, so would you consider that to be renegade
or like a renegade temple?

Speaker 3 (53:57):
I mean, people use a lot of different words.
Renegade is one of them, youknow, yeah, yeah, it is Like I
said, if they don't have agenealogy, this is different.
On the second level, Aside fromthe study group, you may have a
group of sheiks that decide hey, you know what we want to form

(54:20):
this temple of ours where adapts?
You know, I have a charter, soon and so forth.
Things may not be going rightover here in this situation and
they're saying, well, look, youknow we can't stay with the dirt
, so we need to go do our pureand clean demonstration.
And in that case, chapter 47,key 12, they form, under the

(54:40):
covenant of love, truth, peace,freedom and justice, in
conjunction with the prophet andhis temple, the grand, major
temple that the prophet founded.
And so that's there.
Also for those who already havesheepdom and want to start a
temple, and in that case theywould need to know what type of

(55:00):
lawful paperwork that they wouldneed to file in order to
establish that and decide ifthey want to be a subordinate
temple with a charter or withouta charter, if they desire a
charter or if they don't.
So there are a couple of waysto do it, but the wrong way to
do it is to just jump up, think,because you're smart, maybe you

(55:22):
have a PhD, maybe you don't.
You know, and you've beenstudying the literature which is
online out there now and youthink that you're ready for it,
and you just jump up and dowhatever you want to do.
Well, the proof will be in thepudding as to what you do.
I mean, I can't say you don'thave a calling from Allah, but
you don't need to call itMorristine's Temple of America

(55:44):
or anything related to it if youdon't have a genealogy
connected to it.
But you know, people do it andsometimes we've had temples in
the United that have done thatand then they came and they were
able to get it straight Like,hey, we've been doing this,
We've just been doing this onour own.
How are we really supposed tobe doing this?

(56:06):
And then now we're in aposition to aid and assist them
and help them establish theirdemonstration according to law
so bingo, nyp.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
More is coming soon, we're here for you family now um
, hold on did not point at oneindividual.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
The show was only one hour.
I see you chose to act like youdidn't know of me and of what.
Who is that?
Uh, islam, what you mean thisguy?

Speaker 3 (56:43):
I don't know what you mean, brother um, you must
think I'm talking about him and,brother, I'm I'm definitely not
talking about you when I saythis guy didn't know this and
that I'm not referring to you atall.
The person who I'm talkingabout, they know who I'm talking
about and that's why I didn'tmention names, brother.
So if there's any confusion,trust, I'm not talking about you

(57:05):
, beloved, at all.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
Now Sham God King, who is Cosmo L under with
Supreme Grand Chic.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
Yeah.
So you know, when people askquestions like that, we're not
under a Supreme Grand Chic.
We have National Grand Chic andI'm the National Grand Chic.
I was appointed by Shahid AliIl Adept Grand Chic out of
Chicago.
But as far as Supreme GrandChic, we're not under that body,

(57:40):
we're not under thatjurisdiction over there, got you
?
We work with other SupremeGrand Chics.
I've been on some of their othershows, I've been to other
temples and things of thatnature that you can see me all
over the place dealing withthese brothers and sisters.
But as far as Supreme GrandSheik, I'm the National Grand
Sheik and we don't deal with.
We don't deal with that titlebecause there's really only

(58:02):
supposed to be one Supreme GrandSheik and there's a bunch of
them right now.
So if it's so, islam family,all is well, all is well, all is
well.
Beloved, I see you.
Rg Moore Network.
All is good.
See, that's love.
But as far as Supreme GrandSheik, that's a title where
there's supposed to be only oneSupreme Grand Sheik.

(58:22):
So it doesn't make sense to nowbecome another Supreme Grand
Sheik.
But I deal with, I'm in goodstanding with Supreme Grand

(58:46):
Sheik, prather Ill.
We're in good standing andrelation with one another,
braswell Bay of Temple no 1 has.
Ask Ace Damuil about Cosmo Hill.
If it's the Inc, you can askBrother A Hopkins Bay, the
Assistant National Grand Sheikthere, about Cosmo Hill.
So if you want to vet who I am,go talk to the elders.
Don't talk to people that'sjust members.

(59:08):
Go talk to the Supreme GrandSheiks, go talk to the Assistant
Supreme Grand Sheiks and see ifthey have an issue with me, and
I think you'll find thatthey'll tell you I'm upright 90
degrees and I don't go for noneof that mess.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
All right Boys we have.
Work to this platform is thekey.
Thank you, brother amazite.
Brother amazite, if that's you,let me know.
Uh, real quick, I want to givea special shout out to my
brother, roy bay, in thebuilding.
What's?

(59:45):
up what's going on?
Roy bay?
I know I've been knowing RoyBay for a long, long, long time.
That's my brother, amazite.
Yeah, yeah yo, amazite.
What's up?
Amazite?
Amazite was on last week.
Peace to Amazite.
I was like yo that lookedfamiliar.
Peace to Amazite, new Orleans,in the building.

(01:00:08):
We got Roy Bay.
We got Queen slash the Bronx inthe building with.
We got Roy Bay.
We got Queens slash the Bronxin the building With that said,
thank you for coming out,brother Cosmo L.
These were all my own personalquestions, just to let you know.
So I hope we clarified a lot.
We have how the Morris ScienceTemple functions, one, two, and

(01:00:30):
this is the final one.
One, and then we're going tomove on to some other subjects.
Uh, I think we got a big onecoming in a couple weeks.
Man, this is going to be awonderful build.
I want y'all to.
I'm not going to say what it isI'm not going to say what it is
.
We got a wonderful build comingup.
Man, uh, you're gonna love thisman on the uh 29th.
I think it is 29th.
I think it On the 29th.

(01:00:51):
I think it is 29th.
I think it's the 29th.
I think it is.
Let me just make sure I'mwriting exact before we close
out.
Yes, it is the 29th.
It's going to be a two-hourpodcast.
The National Grand Sheet, cosmoL, will be in the building and
some others.
On that note, thank y'all fortuning in.

(01:01:11):
I really appreciate y'all nodoubt.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Don't forget to comment, like, share, subscribe.
Yes, thank, you peace.