September 28, 2025 • 58 mins
The journey toward Black liberation requires both spiritual transformation and political independence—a truth powerfully articulated in this eye-opening conversation with Minister Eric Muhammad of Muhammad's Temple Number 15 in Atlanta.
Minister Eric unveils a revolutionary vision of the future where Black people will experience not just social change but fundamental transformation at the cellular level. He explains how the "brown germ" within Black people—the source of weakness and wickedness—will eventually be removed, creating a new civilization where righteousness becomes our very nature. "We'll only be able to build, we won't be able to destroy anymore," he asserts, painting a picture of a society fundamentally different from anything we've known.
This discussion challenges conventional thinking about what true independence means. Minister Eric dismisses the notion that small-scale entrepreneurship constitutes economic freedom: "We have absolutely got to stop thinking that having a table on the street is economic independence." Instead, he defines real independence as complete nationhood—with our own currency, land, flag, government, and systems. Most critically, he emphasizes that the first step toward this vision is "identity independence" through registration with the Nation of Islam, explaining that "as long as we are in the names of our former slave masters, we literally are the property of our slave master."
The conversation delves into profound theological discussions about the nature of Allah, the role of Elijah Muhammad as messenger, and the principles of Islam. Minister Eric articulates clear distinctions between his understanding of these teachings and those promoted by Minister Louis Farrakhan, grounding his perspective in the original texts and principles.
For those seeking to apply these teachings today, Minister Eric emphasizes the importance of training under proper guidance: "After reading, it becomes necessary to practically apply what we have read." This underscores a crucial truth—that knowledge without application remains theoretical, while real transformation requires disciplined practice under qualified leadership.
Ready to explore these teachings further? Follow Minister
NYPTALKSHOW EP.1 HOSTED BY RON BROWNLMT & MIKEY FEVER
#consciousness #spirituality #meditation #love #awakening #spiritualawakening #spiritual #mindfulness #healing #energy #selflove #yoga #enlightenment #wisdom #peace #lawofattraction #inspiration #life #awareness #soul #motivation #universe #lightworker #nature #quotes #happiness #believe #higherconsciousness #art #gratitude #hiphop #rap #music #rapper #trap #beats #hiphopmusic #newmusic #producer #artist #love #dance #rapmusic #rnb #dj #art #hiphopculture #explorepage #soundcloud #spotify #rappers #freestyle #musicproducer #youtube #bhfyp #beatmaker #instagood #s #musician #follow
#newyork #nyc #newyorkcity #usa #losangeles #miami #love #brooklyn #california #manhattan #ny #fashion #london #music #atlanta #photography #hiphop #art #newjersey #florida #instagram #instagood #chicago #canada #texas #paris #travel #longisland #rap #explorepage
#healthy #fitness #healthylifestyle #healthyfood #health #food #fit #motivation #workout #lifestyle #gym #love #vegan #weightloss #foodie #fitnessmotivation #instagood #nutrition #training #foodporn #instafood #fitfam #diet #bodybuilding #yummy #healthyliving #exercise #healthyeating #wellness #delicious
#currentevents #currentaffairs #news #gk #politics #upsc #ssc #knowledge #podcast #gujarati #ias #discussion #gpsc #debate #generalknowledge #instagram #currentaffairsquiz #politicalscience #youth #gujarat #voting #ips #current #politicalcompass #mun #gov...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:10):
What's going on, everybody?
Up there is Ron Brother NMC, thePeople's Fitness Professional,
aka Soul Brother Number One,Reporting for Duty, and I am
here with the brother, MinisterEric Muhammad.
Peace to Eric Mohammed, AsalamAleikum.
Listen, brother Eric Muhammad,this journey with this podcast
has uh enlightened me on so manylevels.
(00:33):
I'm I'm meeting a lot ofdifferent brothers, uh people
from the NO and uh man, uhdifferent five percenters, and
I'm learning a lot, man.
This is this has been a greatjourney.
Thank you for helping us.
You basically helped us.
You you were with us from thebeginning.
So peace to you, man.
I I I I I highly respect you,brother.
(00:58):
How are you doing this evening?
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
Fine.
So all praises due to Allah forthe most honorable Elijah
Muhammad.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
That's peace.
So now I want to make this thisepisode of Message to the Black
Man the final episode on Messageto the Black Man, and then
eventually go into the otherbooks, yes, sir.
Okay, so um, we the firstquestion is um the vision for
the future.
The prison uh the prison, pardonme.
(01:24):
The vision for the future.
If the principles in the messageto the black man were fully
apply today, what kind ofsociety or community would we
see in the next 25 years?
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
The scripture mentions the answer to your
question.
Now, the reason I referred toscripture is because scripture
is how we understand theknowledge degree in the one
through 40.
The scripture is written by theoriginal man who is allowed the
(02:03):
supreme being, the black man ofAsia.
Those writers of scripture saidthat no eye has seen, no ear has
heard, nor has anyone's heartbeen able to conceive of what
that future is going to looklike.
(02:23):
So we do know that we're goingto have a new civilization.
In our savior has arrived, weare given hints at what it would
be.
We are told that he, Allah,referring to Master Farad
Muhammad, will make all thingsnew.
(02:46):
We are told that there will be anew Islam, that only the
principles of the present Islamwill remain.
We are also told that MasterFarad Muhammad will cause us to
grow physically into a newgrowth.
As we presently exist, or as weare presently made, the black
man has two germs (03:14):
one a black germ, one a brown germ.
And we know that the enemy wasgrafted from us with destroying
the black germ and saving thebrown germ and grafting it into
a white.
(03:35):
Master Farad Muhammad will causeus to grow into a growth that is
new in the sense that thatmaterial, brown germ, will be
removed from us.
The black man will no longer bemade of two germs.
(03:56):
Well, you know how the lessonsays in the black man there
exists two germs.
Well, that's not going to beanymore in this future that
we're talking about the visionof.
There won't be a black and abrown germ.
Since there still is a black anda brown germ, the messenger said
a devil could be grafted from ustoday, but it will be impossible
(04:21):
for a devil to ever be graftedfrom us again in this new vision
that is going to be the future.
There'll never be able to beanother enemy grafted from us,
and it will be impossible for usto destroy.
I'm using five percent languagebecause I hope I'm talking to
(04:42):
five percenters.
Uh, we won't be able to destroyanymore.
And when I say destroy, I'musing destroy as the word for
sin.
We won't be able to sin becausethat material, the brown germ,
it'll be removed from us.
So we'll only be able to build,we won't be able to destroy
(05:02):
anymore.
We'll only be able to dorighteousness, we won't be able
to do unrighteousness anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
Now, do you think that's possible in as far as
like human humanity, like human,like the human makeup?
SPEAKER_00 (05:17):
Absolutely.
Like I said, the brown germ isgoing to be removed, he's gonna
destroy that material in us.
We won't be black men consistingof two germs anymore.
The whole problem that we haveright now, and we've had it ever
since there's been the blackman, is that brown germ.
(05:40):
That brown germ has been theproblem the whole time, so that
brown germ has to be dealt with,and it will be dealt with.
So teaches the most honorableElijah Muhammad by Master Farad
Muhammad.
He's gonna cause us tophysically grow in such a way
that the brown germ won't bethere anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (06:03):
Okay, all right.
So I want to get back to thatbrown germ, yes, sir.
Before we do, um, as far as thesociety, what kind of society?
Let's say, okay, the brown germis gone.
Now it's just the black germ,right?
Right now, what kind of societyand community would it be?
(06:27):
Just in peace, peace andharmony, right?
SPEAKER_00 (06:30):
Exactly.
That's that's that's the onlypicture that we can paint.
It's a very broad picture.
There are no details, the pixelsof this picture are not high
death, the high death of thispicture of the society that is
(06:56):
going to come into existence.
The high death is not there.
The scripture teaches that thehigh death wouldn't be there,
that no eye would see, nor earheard, nor heart has been able
to conceive, and so the highdefinition that comes when the
removal of the enemy iscompleted, and the kingdom that
(07:19):
that society represents isestablished.
SPEAKER_02 (07:23):
Okay, all right.
So now um we now why why do yousay so?
The why would the brown germ bea problem be problematic?
Because it can create the othergerms, right?
SPEAKER_00 (07:39):
The brown germ is recessive, the black germ is
dominant, it's the brown germthat allows us to do wickedness,
it's a weak germ, and it allowsus to do wickedness, so it has
to be removed so that we won'teven be able to do wickedness
(08:02):
anymore.
That germ is called in uh Idon't I don't remember exactly
what book or lecture is talkingabout, but it says that he will
remove that wicked material fromus, that wicked material, which
are the words that is used.
That wicked material, it isreferring to the brown germ in
(08:25):
us, it's a weak and recessivegerm.
SPEAKER_02 (08:31):
Okay, so responsibility of leadership
that's the second question,right?
Responsibility of leadership.
Elijah Muhammad laid outguidance for leaders as well as
the people.
What responsibility do today'sblack leaders have to carry
forward the blueprint he gave?
SPEAKER_00 (08:52):
I would say that uh and I'm kind of uh snickering a
little bit inside because Iwould say that the answer to
that is in the foi manual, and Iknow some of us go to the street
and buy one, but the answer tothat is in the foi manual, it
(09:21):
actually and literally lays downwhat it refers to as those
people in the nation of Islamthat assume a position of
leadership, it lays it down.
So the answer is in the foimanual.
Of course, I don't want to godeep into the details of what it
(09:44):
entails, but the answer is inthe foi manual.
So if if those of you who arewatching, if you bought one, go
read it.
SPEAKER_02 (09:56):
I think I have one.
But you know what?
I'm so like sometimes I could bekind of rigid, like sometimes I
go, you know what?
You know, uh I'm not gonna readthat until I get these things in
order first.
Like, there's other books I haveto have to read, like theology
of time.
(10:16):
I have to get through that book.
Um, and also, you know, when Ilook at these these books,
right?
So I got let me show you.
Okay, so you know I got thesupreme wisdom, I got these
right here.
I think I I've shown you thisbefore, right?
So it's like I look through itand it just looks like it needs
(10:37):
not the supreme wisdom per se,but even in the back, even some
of some of even in the supremewisdom, it looks like you need
uh help with this.
Like it's just like just notlike a self-study kind of thing.
Even with 120, you know, in afive percent nation, people have
to walk you through 120.
(10:58):
So uh, you know, I I'm I'mthinking that I'm matter of
fact, I'm sure you have to bewalked through all the other um
uh I would say documentation inin the uh nation of Islam.
SPEAKER_00 (11:11):
Can I confirm that with the 120?
SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
Which what you mean?
SPEAKER_00 (11:16):
Can I confirm what you just said by reciting
something in the 120?
Yeah, what is the meaning ofCAPT period and L I E U T
period, Captain and Lieutenant?
The duty of the captain is togive orders to the lieutenant,
(11:37):
and the lieutenant's duty is toteach and train private
soldiers, right?
Right, right, right, right.
It's the lieutenant that walksyou through what we're talking
about right now, it's yourlieutenant, indeed, indeed.
SPEAKER_02 (11:55):
Oh, pardon me.
Yep, so now um let's go throughit.
So, as far as the leadership,one thing someone asked me was a
more asked me, so as far asleaks, because this ties into
the question, they said, so whatis Eric Muhammad a part of
(12:18):
temple 15?
What is it exactly?
SPEAKER_00 (12:22):
Muhammad's temple number 15 is the Atlanta Temple
of the Nation of Islam under theleadership of the most honorable
Elijah Muhammad.
It was not established by EricMuhammad, it was not uh well,
(12:45):
we'll stick with established.
Uh, Eric Muhammad didn'testablish Muhammad's temple
number fifteen.
Elijah Muhammad establishedMuhammad's temple number 15 for
the city of Atlanta, Georgia.
Minister Eric Muhammad is simplythe current minister of the
(13:06):
temple that the most honorableElijah Muhammad himself
established.
SPEAKER_02 (13:14):
Okay.
So now in Atlanta, what wouldyour temple do like out there,
you know, to deal with thepeople, like community
relations?
Are you passing out uhnewspapers?
Are you like what what are youdoing with the community?
SPEAKER_00 (13:29):
The newspaper is not in current circulation, but
there are publications that wedo pass out.
Okay, okay.
Other than that, I'm sorry.
Other than that, we are rightdown to the modern days and the
(13:52):
modern times.
The typical average person isgoing to be reached through
their cell phone, not their carwindow.
This is not the 1950s, 60s, and70s or even 80s.
(14:13):
You will reach people by meansof social media more so than you
will reach them in any otherway.
I don't say that that is a goodthing, because I don't believe
that that is a good thing.
I think we are overdoing thesocial media thing.
(14:35):
However, people today want theconvenience of holding a cell
phone in their hand.
Like, look at yoursubscribership, look at how
you've grown, look at how yourpodcast has made the progress
that is made.
Imagine if you were in thestreets trying to drum up this
(14:58):
type of you know problem.
Just imagine, but social medialook at the growth, right?
Because people right now have acell phone in their hand and
they're watching your podcast,right?
SPEAKER_02 (15:17):
Indeed.
So you're using social media toget to the people and things of
that nature.
So any any are you guys a partof the community, like a part of
any uh uh community like passingout um, let's say, like like
food, food drives, clothing, uh,school giveaways, or anything
like that?
SPEAKER_00 (15:38):
No, no, we don't we don't give a man a fish.
More often than not, we don't.
We we we give people a fish.
I don't mean a literal fish now.
What I mean is we don't giveaway usually, like sometimes
you'll see people in here, thosepeople are here because we're
(16:01):
giving them a fish, those peopleare here because they're hungry
and they want to eat, and theycame here because they know
after the meeting we're gonnafeed them, right?
So we do some of that, but moreoften than not, we teach a man
how to fish, as opposed togiving a man a fish, because if
(16:24):
you give a man a fish, you feedhim for one day.
If you teach him how to fish,you feed him for the rest of his
life.
SPEAKER_02 (16:32):
Actual fact, got you.
All right, so the next questionis about economics.
The book emphasizes buildingindependent businesses and
institutions.
What does economic independencelook like for us now, and what
steps are most urgent?
SPEAKER_00 (16:55):
Well, now I really like that question.
What economic independence lookslike is nationhood.
We have absolutely got to stopthinking that having a table on
the street is economicindependence.
(17:18):
It's better to have a table onthe street than to be like me
and have jobs in the white man'splantation, it's better.
That's wonderful, but that's noteconomic independence, that is a
step in the direction ofeconomic independence.
(17:42):
We have got to stop thinkingthat if we set up a stake and
take or a Shabbaz bakery or goget a patch, the messenger
called them patches.
You know, we're talking abouthaving farmland and we might own
an acre.
(18:02):
The messenger had hundreds ofacres, even thousands, and he
called his thousands of acrespatches.
We gotta stop thinking if we gotsome land that we growing some
onions and tomatoes on, thatthat's economic independence.
That is a step in the direction,and it's better than me working
(18:23):
a couple of jobs, no problem,but it's not economic
independence.
Economic independence isnationhood, absolutely nothing
short of nationhood.
When you reach in your pocket oryour wallet and you pull out a
dollar and it's got us on itinstead of the white man, that's
(18:46):
economic independence.
When you have your own land withyour own flag flying over it,
and your own government and thesystems of government, your own
currency, your own everything,that's economic independence.
So that's what economicindependence is, and what is
(19:08):
most urgent as a step towardsthat economic independence is
identity independence.
I know nobody has heard thatterm, and I don't intend to
start that term, I'm just usingit temporarily to make the
(19:30):
point.
The most urgent step is toregister with the nation of
Islam.
How can you be independent as anation that is within another
nation?
How can you be independent ifyou are the nation of Islam, but
you're not a registered member?
(19:52):
You're just claiming the nationof Islam.
I mean, anybody can come to theUnited States and claim the
United States, but are youactually a citizen?
No, you have to be registered,you you have to go through a
citizenship process, and that'swhat needs to be done.
That's the absolute first thingthat needs to be done
(20:15):
registration with your nation.
Because as long as we are in thenames of our former slave
masters, literally, this is notgood, slick sounding Muslim
rhetoric.
As long as we are in the namesof our former slave masters, we
(20:38):
literally are the property ofour slave master.
No other nation and people canclaim us as long as we go in the
names of the nation that we arenow in.
We can't, we can we cannotcontinue to do this.
(20:59):
We got to get that name out ofthe way.
And registration with the nationbegins with an X and then goes
to a holy name based on our goodworks on behalf of our nation.
SPEAKER_02 (21:14):
Gotcha.
Now, I want to talk about umbefore I go into a question from
sizzling stake.
What a name.
What a name.
Okay, sizzling steak.
Before I go into the questionfor sizzling steak, I want to
talk about we're talking beingthat we're on economics and
financial independence.
Uh, I want to talk about just Iknow we spoke about it before,
(21:38):
but just in case we have otherpeople on the podcast that
missed it, the things thatElijah Muhammad had set up for
our people, can you give mesome, you know, some like the
school examples?
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
There is a I'm gonna use the word publication.
There's a publication, and I'msure those of you who buy FOI
manuals and supreme wisdomlesson books, you can buy this
publication as well.
It's called Accomplishments ofthe Muslims.
(22:16):
And this particular publication,Accomplishments of the Muslims,
gives you a detailed look intothose things that you just asked
me about (22:27):
the schools, the businesses, the farmland, all of
the various enterprises, youknow, the newspaper, you name
it.
I would get my hands on one ofthose accomplishments of the
Muslims.
I see no problem with anybodyselling that.
SPEAKER_02 (22:48):
Okay, let me let me get that, write that down.
Accomplishments of the Muslims,right?
Because what I heard, he had aschool, he had uh um uh uh
grocery stores, um uh whatbakeries, uh what else, man?
(23:13):
I that's that's what I canremember right now.
SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
Right.
You had uh actually there wereat the very least 46 schools.
SPEAKER_02 (23:25):
Wow, yes, sir.
There were 46 of them.
Was he working on a bank orsomething like that, or had a
bank?
Not working on it, had it.
Oh wow.
Wow, yes, sir.
That's financial independenceright there.
SPEAKER_00 (23:43):
Close.
We didn't have a nation.
SPEAKER_02 (23:47):
Got you.
Okay, makes sense.
Now I want to go into okay,sizzling steak.
Uh he said, uh, or she, I don'tknow, I don't know who you what
gender.
Uh Dr.
Alem Muhammad is making a lot ofnoise against Farrakhan lately.
Does the host know why?
(24:08):
I don't know why.
I don't know why.
Do you?
SPEAKER_00 (24:12):
Absolutely not.
Uh, due to the fact that I havebeen away from Minister
Farrakhan's organization forwhat, since 1996?
I don't really know the ins andouts of what's going on over
there.
I will tell you this, itsurprises me that someone would
(24:36):
say that that's what he's doing,especially since the noise he
allegedly is making is beingmade on podcasts that are hosted
by those that are close in theirconnection to Minister
Farrakhan.
(24:58):
So I don't know how that I don'tknow how that goes.
SPEAKER_02 (25:03):
And if Farrakhan is up there in age now, right?
Isn't he like creeping up on 90?
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
No, he has crept past 90.
He's past 90 now.
Wow, I believe he was born in1933.
Okay, so he would be 92 rightnow.
SPEAKER_02 (25:22):
Wow, wow, okay, okay.
All right, so let's go into thenext one: spiritual versus
political message, yes, sir.
Some view this, some view thebook as spiritual guidance,
others as a political blueprint.
(25:43):
Okay, which do you see it as, oris it both?
SPEAKER_00 (25:49):
Good question, but you just answered it.
Our spiritual guidance is thatwe become a political entity, so
it's both spiritual andpolitical.
The nation of Islam aims atmaking us a polity, meaning a
(26:16):
political entity, a nation, anindependent nation.
Now, the spiritual aspect ofthat guidance, we don't want you
smoking black and miles in thenation that we are going to set
up.
You leave that garbage overhere.
We don't want you smoking bluntsand you understand Lucy's in the
(26:40):
nation that we are going toestablish, you leave that mess
here.
We don't want you smokingnewports in this new nation that
is going to be established.
We don't want you sniffing nocoke, we don't want you smoking
no dope.
You understand what I'm saying?
We don't want you runningaround, and because some sister
(27:02):
is not covered in three-fourths,and her backside and her thighs
are getting you excited, andmaybe she's got watermelons
instead of June apples on top ofher stomach.
We don't want you feeling likeyo, baby, your baby, let me
(27:24):
holler at you.
We're not interested in thatstupidity and foolishness.
Get married, be responsible,have a family, all this
fornication and adultery.
Where my dude over here got awoman and she looked pretty
good, and I caught her eyeing mea little bit, so you know, when
(27:45):
dude ain't looking, let me do,you know.
I mean, no, no adultery, nocheating, no, no player, player
from the Himalayas, none of thatkind of stuff, righteousness, no
lying, no cheating, no stealing,no fornication, no adultery, no
murder.
We don't want you drugtrafficking, we don't want you
(28:12):
weapons running, we don't wantyou gang banging, we don't want
none of that foolishness that weengage in here in America.
We want a righteously Islamicsociety, that's what we want.
We what in the world are wegonna leave America and set up a
(28:34):
nation that's just like America?
Why don't we just stay where weare?
SPEAKER_02 (28:37):
Right, that makes sense, right?
Indeed, indeed, indeed.
So now um criticism andmisunderstanding.
The book has often missed thethe book has uh the book has
often been misinterpreted orcriticized.
What do people mostmisunderstand about Elijah
(29:00):
Muhammad's message, and how doyou clarify that?
SPEAKER_00 (29:05):
I don't think anybody misunderstands the most
honorable Elijah Muhammad'smessage.
I think that because the messageitself can't be attacked, not
intelligently, not accurately.
I mean, you can't scientificallyor mathematically attack what
(29:26):
the most honorable ElijahMuhammad teaches us from Master
Farad Muhammad.
So you have to attack theperson, you have to attack
Master Farad Muhammad.
He's not really a guy namedFarad Muhammad, he's some white
man named Wallace Dodge Ford,and he came over here and he
joined maybe Garvey's movement,he joined Noble Drew Ali's
(29:50):
movement, and then he stole fromthe two of them and created a
movement, and uh, you know, andhe lied to us, he went to the
library.
And Congressional Library inWashington and got an almanac
and created some actual factsand all of this foolishness
that's I you're attacking MasterFarad Muhammad.
(30:11):
You can't attack what he taught.
So you attack him, you attackthe most honorable Elijah
Muhammad.
He was a dirty old man messingaround with his teenage
secretaries.
And when Malcolm busted him withhis trousers uh beneath his
waist, he put out an order tokill Malcolm.
(30:33):
And then Malcolm ended up beingkilled, and you know, so he's
covering up his extracurricularactivities.
So you attack the man, you can'tattack the teaching.
Anytime you attack the teaching,as long as you're dealing with
someone who knows the teaching,you're not going to survive
that.
(30:54):
So you attack the teachers,Farad Elijah.
The teaching, I don't see howyou can misinterpret it, it's
too plain, it's too simple.
If you're misinterpreting it, isbecause you are deliberately
misinterpreting it, because theinterpretation that is the most
(31:19):
obvious is one that does notsuit your agenda.
You have an agenda, and if youjust leave the teaching as it
is, you can't get your agendaoff, so you interpret it some
other way.
That's what I would say.
So there's nothing about theteaching itself that to me needs
(31:41):
to be clarified.
It is the false allegations, thefalse accusations, the false
representations of the teachersthat is the biggest problem of
all.
(33:25):
Black people are the nation ofIslam.
SPEAKER_02 (33:29):
Correct.
unknown (33:30):
Indeed, indeed.
SPEAKER_02 (33:31):
So we got another question before we finish.
I think we're done with thatquestion.
We got a question from the chat.
Uh Madon Kemet.
Madon Kemet says, What's whatour brother Eric Muhammad's
disagreement against MinisterFarrakhan?
(33:52):
We I think we went over that,but I mean if you want to answer
that, you can.
SPEAKER_00 (33:55):
Oh, absolutely.
Islam has five basic fundamentalprinciples.
One, belief in Allah and Hisapostle, two, belief in divine
revelation and the hereafter.
Three, belief in paying the poorrate and charity.
(34:18):
Four, belief in praying at leastfive times per day.
Five, belief in fasting,especially during the holy month
of Ramadan.
Now, my disagreement withMinister Louis Farrakhan is
principle number one to believein Allah and his apostle, the
(34:41):
most honorable Elijah Muhammad.
Now, if you write a savior'sletter and you write, Dear
Savior Allah, who came in theperson of Master Farad Muhammad,
our Savior and Deliverer, Ithink it says, Dear Savior
(35:07):
Allah, our deliverer, who camein the person of Master Farad
Muhammad, to whom praises aredue forever, I bear witness that
there is no God but thee, andthat Elijah Muhammad is thy
servant and apostle.
(35:27):
If you say that the Allah is thefirst God who created the
heavens and the earth 76trillion years ago, you have now
changed the God Allah fromMaster Farad Muhammad to another
(35:49):
God.
So my disagreement is first andforemost is in the gods.
Master Farad Muhammad is theGod.
(36:21):
Minister Far Khan has taughtthat the flesh is finite, and
anybody would be a fool toworship the flesh.
The most honorable ElijahMuhammad teaches, right in the
message to the black man, thatevery God has been meat, aka
flesh, bones, and blood.
(36:42):
Every God.
So we have a disagreement withrespect to the God.
We also have a disagreement withrespect to the messenger.
We're still in principle numberone.
Principle number one makes theapostle that we believe in along
with Allah, Elijah Muhammad.
(37:05):
You go to the restricted law.
The most honorable ElijahMuhammad says, Worship no God
but Allah, and then it specifiesit says, the one that the
messenger teaches us.
Not somebody other than FaradMuhammad.
The messenger didn't teach us aGod other than Master Farad
(37:27):
Muhammad.
So that restricted law makes itabsolutely clear who the God is
that we worship, who the God isthat we are supposed to believe
in, and it makes it crystalclear who the messenger is.
It's not Prophet Muhammad.
(37:49):
But Elijah Muhammad is themessenger of the current supreme
being, Master Farad Muhammad.
Now let's go to principle numbertwo: divine revelation.
That would be the scripture ofthe Bible and the Holy Quran.
The messenger said that he, byway of Master Farad Muhammad, is
(38:16):
the answer to Abraham's prayerin the Quran.
Minister Farrakhan has taughtthat Prophet Muhammad is the
answer to Abraham's prayer.
So now we have a differencebetween himself and the
messenger with respect to divinerevelation.
(38:41):
The hereafter.
Well, that would refer to thejudgment.
If we disagree on therevelation, we have to disagree
on the hereafter.
Because in the lessons it says,and can you reform devil?
No, all the prophets have triedto reform him, devil, but were
unable, right?
(39:02):
Okay.
Well, wait a minute now.
Now you're seeing those whofollow Minister Farnkind say of
that particular degree, theprophets couldn't reform him,
but God can.
No, God can't.
(39:23):
The only way they can bereformed is they have to be
grafted back to original, whichtakes 600 years.
And the lesson says instead oflosing time grafting them back,
we just take him off the planet.
He's only one to every 11 of us.
So that's the two principles.
Poor rating charity, no problem.
Praying at least five times perday.
(39:43):
Like I said, we have adifference in who we pray to.
And if you have a difference inwho we pray to, then that
necessarily makes a differencein what we pray for.
Then you have fasting.
To believe in fasting,especially during the holy month
of Ramadan.
(40:04):
Well, does that mean that wepray in the ninth month of the
hijri calendar?
Absolutely not.
The messenger clarifies how weare to practice principle number
five by saying, Listen, forquite a few years now, I have
prescribed for my followers tofast in December instead of
(40:27):
Ramadan.
And then he gives us the reason.
Minister Farkan has taken hisfollowers into Ramadan and away
from December.
So it is the five broadprinciples of Islam.
If I start nitpicking and faultfinding on various bits, pieces,
(40:52):
jots, and tittles of things, youcould say you just hating.
But if I stick to the broadprinciples of Islam and show how
we have issues with the veryprinciples of Islam, then you
can't make it personal.
If you're an Eric Muhammadhater, you'll do it anyway.
(41:20):
But you can't accurately do itbecause I'm dealing with the
principles of Islam and not thepersonality of Farrakhan.
SPEAKER_02 (41:29):
Jack, got you now.
Uh moving on to the nextquestion: Unity and division.
The book stresses unity amongblack people, but we often see
division.
How can Elijah Muhammad'steachings uh practically help us
overcome that?
SPEAKER_00 (41:52):
Elijah Muhammad's teachings absolutely cannot and
will not help us overcome that.
We now we're back into thescientists and the scriptures
that they wrote.
It is very, very clear that mereteachings alone will not unite
us.
We are going to have to bebeaten, punished, and chastised
(42:16):
into unity.
Man, that's what it looks like,brother.
Oh man.
You gotta point all of us thatare divided towards each other,
get a 13 and a half.
And I don't need to tell youwhat you need to do to it.
But when you put that 13 and ahalf where it needs to be, since
(42:39):
we'll all be facing each other,it'll drive us to each other.
We so hard headed, it might takean 18 and a half.
SPEAKER_02 (42:51):
Check.
All right, the eighth, uh, I wasgonna say eighth degree.
The the seventh uh question,pardon me.
Youth in next generation.
If young black men read thisbook today, what should they
focus on first?
SPEAKER_00 (43:08):
Training.
Because after reading, itbecomes necessary to practically
apply what we have read.
So when you read the book, youneed to get yourself up under a
lieutenant who has been givenorders by a captain, so that
(43:35):
that lieutenant can teach andtrain you into the practical
application of the supremewisdom and knowledge that you've
just acquired.
SPEAKER_02 (43:51):
That's a good, that's a good one right there.
For sure.
That is needed badly everywhere.
SPEAKER_00 (43:58):
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_02 (44:01):
Every school of thought or nation.
Um, I I don't know.
I don't want to, you know what?
I was gonna get political, I'mnot gonna do that.
I'm trying, I'm trying to keepit, you know.
Let's go straight.
Um, so now um cultural survival.
Elijah Muhammad warned aboutassimilation, warned, warned
(44:23):
about assimilation.
How do black people protectidentity and culture while still
navigating the modern world withextreme difficulty?
SPEAKER_00 (44:39):
But that's when you know forming independent
institutions comes in.
See, the most honorable ElijahMuhammad from Master Farad
Muhammad, he didn't just come toblack people with a teaching,
but he came to black people witha program, and the program can
(45:02):
be found on the back page ofwhatever publication, except
one.
The final call.
You have to open the back pageand look on the inside.
I don't care what your leadersays, I care what the leader
(45:23):
says.
The leader put it on the backpage, your leader put it inside
the back page.
I'm sticking with the leader,not your leader.
All right, the program sayswe're gonna deal with just one
institution.
We want equal education, butseparate schools.
(45:48):
Up to 16 for boys and eighteenfor girls, on the condition that
the girls be sent to women'scolleges and universities.
The messenger goes on further tosay we want all black children
(46:08):
educated, taught, and trained bytheir own teachers, right?
So that separates us as opposedto assimilating us with respect
to education.
And since the messenger teachesus that education civilizes us,
(46:34):
if we separate with respect toeducation, that prepares us to
bring into existence a separatecivilization, and that's how you
keep culture and whatever elseyou just said, you know, from
being compromised.
We do everything separate.
Listen, culture and identity,culture and identity with
(46:58):
respect to identity.
That same program says webelieve that the time in history
has come for the separation ofthe blacks from the whites of
this nation, and we believe thatour people should go in the
names of their own people, asopposed to the names of our
(47:18):
slave master, which identify usas the slave of our slave
master.
We should go in our own names.
So, identity gotta go in our ownnames.
That's that registration that Italked about earlier and
culture.
Again, we have a brand neweducational system.
(47:39):
From that educational systemcomes the civilization, aka
culture that is going to beseparate as opposed to being
compromised.
So that's how you're protected.
We need to, you know, MarcusGarvey said, okay, black men,
where are your ships that plythe high seas carrying your
(48:02):
merchandise to the nations ofthe earth?
You know, where are our schools?
Where I'm not saying he saidthat also, but I'm just saying,
where are our schools?
Where where's our transportationsystem?
Where's our education system?
Where's our economic system?
Where's our political system?
(48:23):
See, everything that the whiteman has, we were taught by the
messenger, we can't be equalwith the white man until we also
have what the white man has.
We got to have everything thewhite man has, and then we're
equal.
SPEAKER_02 (48:37):
Right, for sure.
Guaranteed.
Now, uh, a personal applicationfor someone watching this series
uh who hasn't read the book yet.
What is one what is the oneaction they should take
immediately that reflects ElijahMuhammad's guidance?
SPEAKER_00 (48:57):
Registration with their nation.
Registration with their nation.
Message to the black man is nota book that was written for us
to just feel, okay, good, it'sgood to know this.
Man, it was a good book.
Yeah, thanks.
Woo.
That's not that's not whatmessage to the black man is all
(49:20):
about.
Message to the black man waspublished to help prepare its
reader to be a citizen of theirown nation.
That's what it's for.
All the books are for that.
Everything the messenger gave usis designed for that.
SPEAKER_02 (49:46):
Gotcha.
Now, final word, the tenthquestion.
Um, just to let everybody know,I don't know if I said this in
the beginning, maybe I did, uh,but this is the last one on
Message to the Black Man.
We're gonna move on to otherbooks because I'm realizing
there are so many books.
So um, final word, what wouldElijah Mohammed want us to
(50:10):
remember most from Message tothe Black Man if he were alive
and speaking to us today?
SPEAKER_00 (50:21):
Well, I'm almost sorry that you said from message
to the black man, but I'm onlyalmost sorry because I don't
need really to not use messageto the black man.
I want everybody to keep in mindmessage to the black man is like
(50:47):
saying Muhammad speaks.
Now, this is what I mean when Isay it's like Muhammad speaks.
When you say Muhammad speaks,many of us, even the Muslims,
are so narrow-minded thatMuhammad Speaks means a
(51:08):
newspaper that was published in1961.
Muhammad Speaks already existedbefore 1961, and it was pushed
as a program before the Nationof Islam had its own newspaper.
The reason FOI took thePittsburgh Courier and three
(51:32):
other Negro newspapers went inthe street and sold them like
they were Muhammad Speaksnewspapers, is because Mohammed
Speaks was not a newspaper, itwas an article, and in those
publications was carried themessenger's article, which was
(51:52):
called Mr.
Muhammad Speaks.
Now, during the Nation of Islamgrowth and development in the
United States, Muhammad Speakswas also a radio program.
The various radio spots that hehad all around the country were
(52:15):
called it was the MuhammadSpeaks radio broadcast.
And it was so important that ifyour temple allowed through not
paying what was needed to bepaid, if you didn't keep that
radio program on the air, youweren't gonna stay the minister.
(53:03):
Whether it's a radio program, itdoesn't matter.
Now, message to the black man issimilar to that in you can't say
message to the black man is onebook.
What is our savior has arrived?
Our savior has arrived, is amessage to the black man from
(53:26):
our savior, master faradmuhammad, through his messenger,
the most honorable ElijahMuhammad, the fall of America.
The fall of America is a messageto us from Master Farad Muhammad
through the most honorableElijah Muhammad.
How to eat to live is a messagefrom God in person through his
(53:51):
messenger of how we should eatin order to live.
Supreme Wisdom, book one andtwo.
Those two books carry themessage in totality, which
comprises nutrition, diet, andnutrition, the fall of America,
(54:13):
the arrival of our savior, youname it.
So message to the black man isall encompassing.
Now, so when you say what's themost important thing to
remember, I'll take that rightfrom Master Farad Muhammad.
Since the way you framed thequestion is now that he's no
(54:37):
longer alive, the messenger saidin theology of time, which is
part of the message to the blackman, the messenger said, You
must remember.
(55:04):
The messenger said, You mustremember that it was not Jehovah
who destroyed Pharaoh.
He made Moses to do it.
Therefore, if Master FaradMuhammad is the Jehovah of the
(55:24):
Book, and the most honorableElijah Muhammad is the Moses of
the book.
Master Farad Muhammad, theJehovah, the most honorable
Elijah Muhammad, the Moses, heain't dead.
The Holy Quran talks about himbeing made to appear as dead.
(55:48):
The book of Revelation,principle number two, says the
Lamb of God is the right hand ofGod, and that he would be used
by God to bring about thedestruction of the chief enemy
of God.
That's the thing that I wouldsay that is most important to
remember.
And I'm only saying it becausehe said you must remember.
SPEAKER_02 (56:22):
On that note, if you want to share anything else, let
us know uh where to find you ifanyone wants to uh join the
temple or or contact you.
Uh, if you want to let themknow, you know, you could, you
know, yes, say that now.
SPEAKER_00 (56:39):
Our YouTube channel now is Minister Eric Muhammad.
It used to be Muhammad's Temple15, but they took it down.
We had another one that was NOITemple, but they took it down.
NOI Temple 15, but they took itdown.
(57:00):
That's our email address, NOITemple15 at Aol.com.
So our YouTube channel isminister Eric Muhammad.
The whole word minister, Ericand Muhammad spelled out.
That's where our YouTube channelis, and our YouTube channel, if
(57:21):
you click on the about, it'llbring down all of the
information that we're talkingabout.
But you can follow us on uh X,you can follow us on Facebook,
and we don't have much of anInstagram.
(57:43):
I just don't have thepersonality to be taking a bunch
of pictures and say, hey guys,look at my pictures.
I'm not into that, I'm too oldfor that.
SPEAKER_02 (57:53):
Got you, got you.
Thank you for coming out thisevening.
I really appreciate you, brotherEric Muhammad.
We will build on the next uh thenext podcast that we will do.
And on that note, peace toeverybody in the chat.
I really appreciate y'all.
We got another podcast coming upin two minutes, is a
(58:13):
pre-recorded.
It's a rapper by the name of ohmy god, uh Lady Luck.
Lady Luck is a pre-recorded.
Mike did that podcast like aweek or so ago.
Check it out.
This is the first time it'spremiering, and we are out of
here.
Peace.
What's going on, everybody?
Up there is Ron Brother NMC, thePeople's Fitness Professional,
aka Soul Brother Number One,Reporting for Duty, and I am
here with the brother, MinisterEric Muhammad.
Peace to Eric Mohammed, AsalamAleikum.
Listen, brother Eric Muhammad,this journey with this podcast
has uh enlightened me on so manylevels.
(00:33):
I'm I'm meeting a lot ofdifferent brothers, uh people
from the NO and uh man, uhdifferent five percenters, and
I'm learning a lot, man.
This is this has been a greatjourney.
Thank you for helping us.
You basically helped us.
You you were with us from thebeginning.
So peace to you, man.
I I I I I highly respect you,brother.
(00:58):
How are you doing this evening?
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
Fine.
So all praises due to Allah forthe most honorable Elijah
Muhammad.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
That's peace.
So now I want to make this thisepisode of Message to the Black
Man the final episode on Messageto the Black Man, and then
eventually go into the otherbooks, yes, sir.
Okay, so um, we the firstquestion is um the vision for
the future.
The prison uh the prison, pardonme.
(01:24):
The vision for the future.
If the principles in the messageto the black man were fully
apply today, what kind ofsociety or community would we
see in the next 25 years?
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
The scripture mentions the answer to your
question.
Now, the reason I referred toscripture is because scripture
is how we understand theknowledge degree in the one
through 40.
The scripture is written by theoriginal man who is allowed the
(02:03):
supreme being, the black man ofAsia.
Those writers of scripture saidthat no eye has seen, no ear has
heard, nor has anyone's heartbeen able to conceive of what
that future is going to looklike.
(02:23):
So we do know that we're goingto have a new civilization.
In our savior has arrived, weare given hints at what it would
be.
We are told that he, Allah,referring to Master Farad
Muhammad, will make all thingsnew.
(02:46):
We are told that there will be anew Islam, that only the
principles of the present Islamwill remain.
We are also told that MasterFarad Muhammad will cause us to
grow physically into a newgrowth.
As we presently exist, or as weare presently made, the black
man has two germs (03:14):
one a black germ, one a brown germ.
And we know that the enemy wasgrafted from us with destroying
the black germ and saving thebrown germ and grafting it into
a white.
(03:35):
Master Farad Muhammad will causeus to grow into a growth that is
new in the sense that thatmaterial, brown germ, will be
removed from us.
The black man will no longer bemade of two germs.
(03:56):
Well, you know how the lessonsays in the black man there
exists two germs.
Well, that's not going to beanymore in this future that
we're talking about the visionof.
There won't be a black and abrown germ.
Since there still is a black anda brown germ, the messenger said
a devil could be grafted from ustoday, but it will be impossible
(04:21):
for a devil to ever be graftedfrom us again in this new vision
that is going to be the future.
There'll never be able to beanother enemy grafted from us,
and it will be impossible for usto destroy.
I'm using five percent languagebecause I hope I'm talking to
(04:42):
five percenters.
Uh, we won't be able to destroyanymore.
And when I say destroy, I'musing destroy as the word for
sin.
We won't be able to sin becausethat material, the brown germ,
it'll be removed from us.
So we'll only be able to build,we won't be able to destroy
(05:02):
anymore.
We'll only be able to dorighteousness, we won't be able
to do unrighteousness anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
Now, do you think that's possible in as far as
like human humanity, like human,like the human makeup?
SPEAKER_00 (05:17):
Absolutely.
Like I said, the brown germ isgoing to be removed, he's gonna
destroy that material in us.
We won't be black men consistingof two germs anymore.
The whole problem that we haveright now, and we've had it ever
since there's been the blackman, is that brown germ.
(05:40):
That brown germ has been theproblem the whole time, so that
brown germ has to be dealt with,and it will be dealt with.
So teaches the most honorableElijah Muhammad by Master Farad
Muhammad.
He's gonna cause us tophysically grow in such a way
that the brown germ won't bethere anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (06:03):
Okay, all right.
So I want to get back to thatbrown germ, yes, sir.
Before we do, um, as far as thesociety, what kind of society?
Let's say, okay, the brown germis gone.
Now it's just the black germ,right?
Right now, what kind of societyand community would it be?
(06:27):
Just in peace, peace andharmony, right?
SPEAKER_00 (06:30):
Exactly.
That's that's that's the onlypicture that we can paint.
It's a very broad picture.
There are no details, the pixelsof this picture are not high
death, the high death of thispicture of the society that is
(06:56):
going to come into existence.
The high death is not there.
The scripture teaches that thehigh death wouldn't be there,
that no eye would see, nor earheard, nor heart has been able
to conceive, and so the highdefinition that comes when the
removal of the enemy iscompleted, and the kingdom that
(07:19):
that society represents isestablished.
SPEAKER_02 (07:23):
Okay, all right.
So now um we now why why do yousay so?
The why would the brown germ bea problem be problematic?
Because it can create the othergerms, right?
SPEAKER_00 (07:39):
The brown germ is recessive, the black germ is
dominant, it's the brown germthat allows us to do wickedness,
it's a weak germ, and it allowsus to do wickedness, so it has
to be removed so that we won'teven be able to do wickedness
(08:02):
anymore.
That germ is called in uh Idon't I don't remember exactly
what book or lecture is talkingabout, but it says that he will
remove that wicked material fromus, that wicked material, which
are the words that is used.
That wicked material, it isreferring to the brown germ in
(08:25):
us, it's a weak and recessivegerm.
SPEAKER_02 (08:31):
Okay, so responsibility of leadership
that's the second question,right?
Responsibility of leadership.
Elijah Muhammad laid outguidance for leaders as well as
the people.
What responsibility do today'sblack leaders have to carry
forward the blueprint he gave?
SPEAKER_00 (08:52):
I would say that uh and I'm kind of uh snickering a
little bit inside because Iwould say that the answer to
that is in the foi manual, and Iknow some of us go to the street
and buy one, but the answer tothat is in the foi manual, it
(09:21):
actually and literally lays downwhat it refers to as those
people in the nation of Islamthat assume a position of
leadership, it lays it down.
So the answer is in the foimanual.
Of course, I don't want to godeep into the details of what it
(09:44):
entails, but the answer is inthe foi manual.
So if if those of you who arewatching, if you bought one, go
read it.
SPEAKER_02 (09:56):
I think I have one.
But you know what?
I'm so like sometimes I could bekind of rigid, like sometimes I
go, you know what?
You know, uh I'm not gonna readthat until I get these things in
order first.
Like, there's other books I haveto have to read, like theology
of time.
(10:16):
I have to get through that book.
Um, and also, you know, when Ilook at these these books,
right?
So I got let me show you.
Okay, so you know I got thesupreme wisdom, I got these
right here.
I think I I've shown you thisbefore, right?
So it's like I look through itand it just looks like it needs
(10:37):
not the supreme wisdom per se,but even in the back, even some
of some of even in the supremewisdom, it looks like you need
uh help with this.
Like it's just like just notlike a self-study kind of thing.
Even with 120, you know, in afive percent nation, people have
to walk you through 120.
(10:58):
So uh, you know, I I'm I'mthinking that I'm matter of
fact, I'm sure you have to bewalked through all the other um
uh I would say documentation inin the uh nation of Islam.
SPEAKER_00 (11:11):
Can I confirm that with the 120?
SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
Which what you mean?
SPEAKER_00 (11:16):
Can I confirm what you just said by reciting
something in the 120?
Yeah, what is the meaning ofCAPT period and L I E U T
period, Captain and Lieutenant?
The duty of the captain is togive orders to the lieutenant,
(11:37):
and the lieutenant's duty is toteach and train private
soldiers, right?
Right, right, right, right.
It's the lieutenant that walksyou through what we're talking
about right now, it's yourlieutenant, indeed, indeed.
SPEAKER_02 (11:55):
Oh, pardon me.
Yep, so now um let's go throughit.
So, as far as the leadership,one thing someone asked me was a
more asked me, so as far asleaks, because this ties into
the question, they said, so whatis Eric Muhammad a part of
(12:18):
temple 15?
What is it exactly?
SPEAKER_00 (12:22):
Muhammad's temple number 15 is the Atlanta Temple
of the Nation of Islam under theleadership of the most honorable
Elijah Muhammad.
It was not established by EricMuhammad, it was not uh well,
(12:45):
we'll stick with established.
Uh, Eric Muhammad didn'testablish Muhammad's temple
number fifteen.
Elijah Muhammad establishedMuhammad's temple number 15 for
the city of Atlanta, Georgia.
Minister Eric Muhammad is simplythe current minister of the
(13:06):
temple that the most honorableElijah Muhammad himself
established.
SPEAKER_02 (13:14):
Okay.
So now in Atlanta, what wouldyour temple do like out there,
you know, to deal with thepeople, like community
relations?
Are you passing out uhnewspapers?
Are you like what what are youdoing with the community?
SPEAKER_00 (13:29):
The newspaper is not in current circulation, but
there are publications that wedo pass out.
Okay, okay.
Other than that, I'm sorry.
Other than that, we are rightdown to the modern days and the
(13:52):
modern times.
The typical average person isgoing to be reached through
their cell phone, not their carwindow.
This is not the 1950s, 60s, and70s or even 80s.
(14:13):
You will reach people by meansof social media more so than you
will reach them in any otherway.
I don't say that that is a goodthing, because I don't believe
that that is a good thing.
I think we are overdoing thesocial media thing.
(14:35):
However, people today want theconvenience of holding a cell
phone in their hand.
Like, look at yoursubscribership, look at how
you've grown, look at how yourpodcast has made the progress
that is made.
Imagine if you were in thestreets trying to drum up this
(14:58):
type of you know problem.
Just imagine, but social medialook at the growth, right?
Because people right now have acell phone in their hand and
they're watching your podcast,right?
SPEAKER_02 (15:17):
Indeed.
So you're using social media toget to the people and things of
that nature.
So any any are you guys a partof the community, like a part of
any uh uh community like passingout um, let's say, like like
food, food drives, clothing, uh,school giveaways, or anything
like that?
SPEAKER_00 (15:38):
No, no, we don't we don't give a man a fish.
More often than not, we don't.
We we we give people a fish.
I don't mean a literal fish now.
What I mean is we don't giveaway usually, like sometimes
you'll see people in here, thosepeople are here because we're
(16:01):
giving them a fish, those peopleare here because they're hungry
and they want to eat, and theycame here because they know
after the meeting we're gonnafeed them, right?
So we do some of that, but moreoften than not, we teach a man
how to fish, as opposed togiving a man a fish, because if
(16:24):
you give a man a fish, you feedhim for one day.
If you teach him how to fish,you feed him for the rest of his
life.
SPEAKER_02 (16:32):
Actual fact, got you.
All right, so the next questionis about economics.
The book emphasizes buildingindependent businesses and
institutions.
What does economic independencelook like for us now, and what
steps are most urgent?
SPEAKER_00 (16:55):
Well, now I really like that question.
What economic independence lookslike is nationhood.
We have absolutely got to stopthinking that having a table on
the street is economicindependence.
(17:18):
It's better to have a table onthe street than to be like me
and have jobs in the white man'splantation, it's better.
That's wonderful, but that's noteconomic independence, that is a
step in the direction ofeconomic independence.
(17:42):
We have got to stop thinkingthat if we set up a stake and
take or a Shabbaz bakery or goget a patch, the messenger
called them patches.
You know, we're talking abouthaving farmland and we might own
an acre.
(18:02):
The messenger had hundreds ofacres, even thousands, and he
called his thousands of acrespatches.
We gotta stop thinking if we gotsome land that we growing some
onions and tomatoes on, thatthat's economic independence.
That is a step in the direction,and it's better than me working
(18:23):
a couple of jobs, no problem,but it's not economic
independence.
Economic independence isnationhood, absolutely nothing
short of nationhood.
When you reach in your pocket oryour wallet and you pull out a
dollar and it's got us on itinstead of the white man, that's
(18:46):
economic independence.
When you have your own land withyour own flag flying over it,
and your own government and thesystems of government, your own
currency, your own everything,that's economic independence.
So that's what economicindependence is, and what is
(19:08):
most urgent as a step towardsthat economic independence is
identity independence.
I know nobody has heard thatterm, and I don't intend to
start that term, I'm just usingit temporarily to make the
(19:30):
point.
The most urgent step is toregister with the nation of
Islam.
How can you be independent as anation that is within another
nation?
How can you be independent ifyou are the nation of Islam, but
you're not a registered member?
(19:52):
You're just claiming the nationof Islam.
I mean, anybody can come to theUnited States and claim the
United States, but are youactually a citizen?
No, you have to be registered,you you have to go through a
citizenship process, and that'swhat needs to be done.
That's the absolute first thingthat needs to be done
(20:15):
registration with your nation.
Because as long as we are in thenames of our former slave
masters, literally, this is notgood, slick sounding Muslim
rhetoric.
As long as we are in the namesof our former slave masters, we
(20:38):
literally are the property ofour slave master.
No other nation and people canclaim us as long as we go in the
names of the nation that we arenow in.
We can't, we can we cannotcontinue to do this.
(20:59):
We got to get that name out ofthe way.
And registration with the nationbegins with an X and then goes
to a holy name based on our goodworks on behalf of our nation.
SPEAKER_02 (21:14):
Gotcha.
Now, I want to talk about umbefore I go into a question from
sizzling stake.
What a name.
What a name.
Okay, sizzling steak.
Before I go into the questionfor sizzling steak, I want to
talk about we're talking beingthat we're on economics and
financial independence.
Uh, I want to talk about just Iknow we spoke about it before,
(21:38):
but just in case we have otherpeople on the podcast that
missed it, the things thatElijah Muhammad had set up for
our people, can you give mesome, you know, some like the
school examples?
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
There is a I'm gonna use the word publication.
There's a publication, and I'msure those of you who buy FOI
manuals and supreme wisdomlesson books, you can buy this
publication as well.
It's called Accomplishments ofthe Muslims.
(22:16):
And this particular publication,Accomplishments of the Muslims,
gives you a detailed look intothose things that you just asked
me about (22:27):
the schools, the businesses, the farmland, all of
the various enterprises, youknow, the newspaper, you name
it.
I would get my hands on one ofthose accomplishments of the
Muslims.
I see no problem with anybodyselling that.
SPEAKER_02 (22:48):
Okay, let me let me get that, write that down.
Accomplishments of the Muslims,right?
Because what I heard, he had aschool, he had uh um uh uh
grocery stores, um uh whatbakeries, uh what else, man?
(23:13):
I that's that's what I canremember right now.
SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
Right.
You had uh actually there wereat the very least 46 schools.
SPEAKER_02 (23:25):
Wow, yes, sir.
There were 46 of them.
Was he working on a bank orsomething like that, or had a
bank?
Not working on it, had it.
Oh wow.
Wow, yes, sir.
That's financial independenceright there.
SPEAKER_00 (23:43):
Close.
We didn't have a nation.
SPEAKER_02 (23:47):
Got you.
Okay, makes sense.
Now I want to go into okay,sizzling steak.
Uh he said, uh, or she, I don'tknow, I don't know who you what
gender.
Uh Dr.
Alem Muhammad is making a lot ofnoise against Farrakhan lately.
Does the host know why?
(24:08):
I don't know why.
I don't know why.
Do you?
SPEAKER_00 (24:12):
Absolutely not.
Uh, due to the fact that I havebeen away from Minister
Farrakhan's organization forwhat, since 1996?
I don't really know the ins andouts of what's going on over
there.
I will tell you this, itsurprises me that someone would
(24:36):
say that that's what he's doing,especially since the noise he
allegedly is making is beingmade on podcasts that are hosted
by those that are close in theirconnection to Minister
Farrakhan.
(24:58):
So I don't know how that I don'tknow how that goes.
SPEAKER_02 (25:03):
And if Farrakhan is up there in age now, right?
Isn't he like creeping up on 90?
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
No, he has crept past 90.
He's past 90 now.
Wow, I believe he was born in1933.
Okay, so he would be 92 rightnow.
SPEAKER_02 (25:22):
Wow, wow, okay, okay.
All right, so let's go into thenext one: spiritual versus
political message, yes, sir.
Some view this, some view thebook as spiritual guidance,
others as a political blueprint.
(25:43):
Okay, which do you see it as, oris it both?
SPEAKER_00 (25:49):
Good question, but you just answered it.
Our spiritual guidance is thatwe become a political entity, so
it's both spiritual andpolitical.
The nation of Islam aims atmaking us a polity, meaning a
(26:16):
political entity, a nation, anindependent nation.
Now, the spiritual aspect ofthat guidance, we don't want you
smoking black and miles in thenation that we are going to set
up.
You leave that garbage overhere.
We don't want you smoking bluntsand you understand Lucy's in the
(26:40):
nation that we are going toestablish, you leave that mess
here.
We don't want you smokingnewports in this new nation that
is going to be established.
We don't want you sniffing nocoke, we don't want you smoking
no dope.
You understand what I'm saying?
We don't want you runningaround, and because some sister
(27:02):
is not covered in three-fourths,and her backside and her thighs
are getting you excited, andmaybe she's got watermelons
instead of June apples on top ofher stomach.
We don't want you feeling likeyo, baby, your baby, let me
(27:24):
holler at you.
We're not interested in thatstupidity and foolishness.
Get married, be responsible,have a family, all this
fornication and adultery.
Where my dude over here got awoman and she looked pretty
good, and I caught her eyeing mea little bit, so you know, when
(27:45):
dude ain't looking, let me do,you know.
I mean, no, no adultery, nocheating, no, no player, player
from the Himalayas, none of thatkind of stuff, righteousness, no
lying, no cheating, no stealing,no fornication, no adultery, no
murder.
We don't want you drugtrafficking, we don't want you
(28:12):
weapons running, we don't wantyou gang banging, we don't want
none of that foolishness that weengage in here in America.
We want a righteously Islamicsociety, that's what we want.
We what in the world are wegonna leave America and set up a
(28:34):
nation that's just like America?
Why don't we just stay where weare?
SPEAKER_02 (28:37):
Right, that makes sense, right?
Indeed, indeed, indeed.
So now um criticism andmisunderstanding.
The book has often missed thethe book has uh the book has
often been misinterpreted orcriticized.
What do people mostmisunderstand about Elijah
(29:00):
Muhammad's message, and how doyou clarify that?
SPEAKER_00 (29:05):
I don't think anybody misunderstands the most
honorable Elijah Muhammad'smessage.
I think that because the messageitself can't be attacked, not
intelligently, not accurately.
I mean, you can't scientificallyor mathematically attack what
(29:26):
the most honorable ElijahMuhammad teaches us from Master
Farad Muhammad.
So you have to attack theperson, you have to attack
Master Farad Muhammad.
He's not really a guy namedFarad Muhammad, he's some white
man named Wallace Dodge Ford,and he came over here and he
joined maybe Garvey's movement,he joined Noble Drew Ali's
(29:50):
movement, and then he stole fromthe two of them and created a
movement, and uh, you know, andhe lied to us, he went to the
library.
And Congressional Library inWashington and got an almanac
and created some actual factsand all of this foolishness
that's I you're attacking MasterFarad Muhammad.
(30:11):
You can't attack what he taught.
So you attack him, you attackthe most honorable Elijah
Muhammad.
He was a dirty old man messingaround with his teenage
secretaries.
And when Malcolm busted him withhis trousers uh beneath his
waist, he put out an order tokill Malcolm.
(30:33):
And then Malcolm ended up beingkilled, and you know, so he's
covering up his extracurricularactivities.
So you attack the man, you can'tattack the teaching.
Anytime you attack the teaching,as long as you're dealing with
someone who knows the teaching,you're not going to survive
that.
(30:54):
So you attack the teachers,Farad Elijah.
The teaching, I don't see howyou can misinterpret it, it's
too plain, it's too simple.
If you're misinterpreting it, isbecause you are deliberately
misinterpreting it, because theinterpretation that is the most
(31:19):
obvious is one that does notsuit your agenda.
You have an agenda, and if youjust leave the teaching as it
is, you can't get your agendaoff, so you interpret it some
other way.
That's what I would say.
So there's nothing about theteaching itself that to me needs
(31:41):
to be clarified.
It is the false allegations, thefalse accusations, the false
representations of the teachersthat is the biggest problem of
all.
(33:25):
Black people are the nation ofIslam.
SPEAKER_02 (33:29):
Correct.
unknown (33:30):
Indeed, indeed.
SPEAKER_02 (33:31):
So we got another question before we finish.
I think we're done with thatquestion.
We got a question from the chat.
Uh Madon Kemet.
Madon Kemet says, What's whatour brother Eric Muhammad's
disagreement against MinisterFarrakhan?
(33:52):
We I think we went over that,but I mean if you want to answer
that, you can.
SPEAKER_00 (33:55):
Oh, absolutely.
Islam has five basic fundamentalprinciples.
One, belief in Allah and Hisapostle, two, belief in divine
revelation and the hereafter.
Three, belief in paying the poorrate and charity.
(34:18):
Four, belief in praying at leastfive times per day.
Five, belief in fasting,especially during the holy month
of Ramadan.
Now, my disagreement withMinister Louis Farrakhan is
principle number one to believein Allah and his apostle, the
(34:41):
most honorable Elijah Muhammad.
Now, if you write a savior'sletter and you write, Dear
Savior Allah, who came in theperson of Master Farad Muhammad,
our Savior and Deliverer, Ithink it says, Dear Savior
(35:07):
Allah, our deliverer, who camein the person of Master Farad
Muhammad, to whom praises aredue forever, I bear witness that
there is no God but thee, andthat Elijah Muhammad is thy
servant and apostle.
(35:27):
If you say that the Allah is thefirst God who created the
heavens and the earth 76trillion years ago, you have now
changed the God Allah fromMaster Farad Muhammad to another
(35:49):
God.
So my disagreement is first andforemost is in the gods.
Master Farad Muhammad is theGod.
(36:21):
Minister Far Khan has taughtthat the flesh is finite, and
anybody would be a fool toworship the flesh.
The most honorable ElijahMuhammad teaches, right in the
message to the black man, thatevery God has been meat, aka
flesh, bones, and blood.
(36:42):
Every God.
So we have a disagreement withrespect to the God.
We also have a disagreement withrespect to the messenger.
We're still in principle numberone.
Principle number one makes theapostle that we believe in along
with Allah, Elijah Muhammad.
(37:05):
You go to the restricted law.
The most honorable ElijahMuhammad says, Worship no God
but Allah, and then it specifiesit says, the one that the
messenger teaches us.
Not somebody other than FaradMuhammad.
The messenger didn't teach us aGod other than Master Farad
(37:27):
Muhammad.
So that restricted law makes itabsolutely clear who the God is
that we worship, who the God isthat we are supposed to believe
in, and it makes it crystalclear who the messenger is.
It's not Prophet Muhammad.
(37:49):
But Elijah Muhammad is themessenger of the current supreme
being, Master Farad Muhammad.
Now let's go to principle numbertwo: divine revelation.
That would be the scripture ofthe Bible and the Holy Quran.
The messenger said that he, byway of Master Farad Muhammad, is
(38:16):
the answer to Abraham's prayerin the Quran.
Minister Farrakhan has taughtthat Prophet Muhammad is the
answer to Abraham's prayer.
So now we have a differencebetween himself and the
messenger with respect to divinerevelation.
(38:41):
The hereafter.
Well, that would refer to thejudgment.
If we disagree on therevelation, we have to disagree
on the hereafter.
Because in the lessons it says,and can you reform devil?
No, all the prophets have triedto reform him, devil, but were
unable, right?
(39:02):
Okay.
Well, wait a minute now.
Now you're seeing those whofollow Minister Farnkind say of
that particular degree, theprophets couldn't reform him,
but God can.
No, God can't.
(39:23):
The only way they can bereformed is they have to be
grafted back to original, whichtakes 600 years.
And the lesson says instead oflosing time grafting them back,
we just take him off the planet.
He's only one to every 11 of us.
So that's the two principles.
Poor rating charity, no problem.
Praying at least five times perday.
(39:43):
Like I said, we have adifference in who we pray to.
And if you have a difference inwho we pray to, then that
necessarily makes a differencein what we pray for.
Then you have fasting.
To believe in fasting,especially during the holy month
of Ramadan.
(40:04):
Well, does that mean that wepray in the ninth month of the
hijri calendar?
Absolutely not.
The messenger clarifies how weare to practice principle number
five by saying, Listen, forquite a few years now, I have
prescribed for my followers tofast in December instead of
(40:27):
Ramadan.
And then he gives us the reason.
Minister Farkan has taken hisfollowers into Ramadan and away
from December.
So it is the five broadprinciples of Islam.
If I start nitpicking and faultfinding on various bits, pieces,
(40:52):
jots, and tittles of things, youcould say you just hating.
But if I stick to the broadprinciples of Islam and show how
we have issues with the veryprinciples of Islam, then you
can't make it personal.
If you're an Eric Muhammadhater, you'll do it anyway.
(41:20):
But you can't accurately do itbecause I'm dealing with the
principles of Islam and not thepersonality of Farrakhan.
SPEAKER_02 (41:29):
Jack, got you now.
Uh moving on to the nextquestion: Unity and division.
The book stresses unity amongblack people, but we often see
division.
How can Elijah Muhammad'steachings uh practically help us
overcome that?
SPEAKER_00 (41:52):
Elijah Muhammad's teachings absolutely cannot and
will not help us overcome that.
We now we're back into thescientists and the scriptures
that they wrote.
It is very, very clear that mereteachings alone will not unite
us.
We are going to have to bebeaten, punished, and chastised
(42:16):
into unity.
Man, that's what it looks like,brother.
Oh man.
You gotta point all of us thatare divided towards each other,
get a 13 and a half.
And I don't need to tell youwhat you need to do to it.
But when you put that 13 and ahalf where it needs to be, since
(42:39):
we'll all be facing each other,it'll drive us to each other.
We so hard headed, it might takean 18 and a half.
SPEAKER_02 (42:51):
Check.
All right, the eighth, uh, I wasgonna say eighth degree.
The the seventh uh question,pardon me.
Youth in next generation.
If young black men read thisbook today, what should they
focus on first?
SPEAKER_00 (43:08):
Training.
Because after reading, itbecomes necessary to practically
apply what we have read.
So when you read the book, youneed to get yourself up under a
lieutenant who has been givenorders by a captain, so that
(43:35):
that lieutenant can teach andtrain you into the practical
application of the supremewisdom and knowledge that you've
just acquired.
SPEAKER_02 (43:51):
That's a good, that's a good one right there.
For sure.
That is needed badly everywhere.
SPEAKER_00 (43:58):
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_02 (44:01):
Every school of thought or nation.
Um, I I don't know.
I don't want to, you know what?
I was gonna get political, I'mnot gonna do that.
I'm trying, I'm trying to keepit, you know.
Let's go straight.
Um, so now um cultural survival.
Elijah Muhammad warned aboutassimilation, warned, warned
(44:23):
about assimilation.
How do black people protectidentity and culture while still
navigating the modern world withextreme difficulty?
SPEAKER_00 (44:39):
But that's when you know forming independent
institutions comes in.
See, the most honorable ElijahMuhammad from Master Farad
Muhammad, he didn't just come toblack people with a teaching,
but he came to black people witha program, and the program can
(45:02):
be found on the back page ofwhatever publication, except
one.
The final call.
You have to open the back pageand look on the inside.
I don't care what your leadersays, I care what the leader
(45:23):
says.
The leader put it on the backpage, your leader put it inside
the back page.
I'm sticking with the leader,not your leader.
All right, the program sayswe're gonna deal with just one
institution.
We want equal education, butseparate schools.
(45:48):
Up to 16 for boys and eighteenfor girls, on the condition that
the girls be sent to women'scolleges and universities.
The messenger goes on further tosay we want all black children
(46:08):
educated, taught, and trained bytheir own teachers, right?
So that separates us as opposedto assimilating us with respect
to education.
And since the messenger teachesus that education civilizes us,
(46:34):
if we separate with respect toeducation, that prepares us to
bring into existence a separatecivilization, and that's how you
keep culture and whatever elseyou just said, you know, from
being compromised.
We do everything separate.
Listen, culture and identity,culture and identity with
(46:58):
respect to identity.
That same program says webelieve that the time in history
has come for the separation ofthe blacks from the whites of
this nation, and we believe thatour people should go in the
names of their own people, asopposed to the names of our
(47:18):
slave master, which identify usas the slave of our slave
master.
We should go in our own names.
So, identity gotta go in our ownnames.
That's that registration that Italked about earlier and
culture.
Again, we have a brand neweducational system.
(47:39):
From that educational systemcomes the civilization, aka
culture that is going to beseparate as opposed to being
compromised.
So that's how you're protected.
We need to, you know, MarcusGarvey said, okay, black men,
where are your ships that plythe high seas carrying your
(48:02):
merchandise to the nations ofthe earth?
You know, where are our schools?
Where I'm not saying he saidthat also, but I'm just saying,
where are our schools?
Where where's our transportationsystem?
Where's our education system?
Where's our economic system?
Where's our political system?
(48:23):
See, everything that the whiteman has, we were taught by the
messenger, we can't be equalwith the white man until we also
have what the white man has.
We got to have everything thewhite man has, and then we're
equal.
SPEAKER_02 (48:37):
Right, for sure.
Guaranteed.
Now, uh, a personal applicationfor someone watching this series
uh who hasn't read the book yet.
What is one what is the oneaction they should take
immediately that reflects ElijahMuhammad's guidance?
SPEAKER_00 (48:57):
Registration with their nation.
Registration with their nation.
Message to the black man is nota book that was written for us
to just feel, okay, good, it'sgood to know this.
Man, it was a good book.
Yeah, thanks.
Woo.
That's not that's not whatmessage to the black man is all
(49:20):
about.
Message to the black man waspublished to help prepare its
reader to be a citizen of theirown nation.
That's what it's for.
All the books are for that.
Everything the messenger gave usis designed for that.
SPEAKER_02 (49:46):
Gotcha.
Now, final word, the tenthquestion.
Um, just to let everybody know,I don't know if I said this in
the beginning, maybe I did, uh,but this is the last one on
Message to the Black Man.
We're gonna move on to otherbooks because I'm realizing
there are so many books.
So um, final word, what wouldElijah Mohammed want us to
(50:10):
remember most from Message tothe Black Man if he were alive
and speaking to us today?
SPEAKER_00 (50:21):
Well, I'm almost sorry that you said from message
to the black man, but I'm onlyalmost sorry because I don't
need really to not use messageto the black man.
I want everybody to keep in mindmessage to the black man is like
(50:47):
saying Muhammad speaks.
Now, this is what I mean when Isay it's like Muhammad speaks.
When you say Muhammad speaks,many of us, even the Muslims,
are so narrow-minded thatMuhammad Speaks means a
(51:08):
newspaper that was published in1961.
Muhammad Speaks already existedbefore 1961, and it was pushed
as a program before the Nationof Islam had its own newspaper.
The reason FOI took thePittsburgh Courier and three
(51:32):
other Negro newspapers went inthe street and sold them like
they were Muhammad Speaksnewspapers, is because Mohammed
Speaks was not a newspaper, itwas an article, and in those
publications was carried themessenger's article, which was
(51:52):
called Mr.
Muhammad Speaks.
Now, during the Nation of Islamgrowth and development in the
United States, Muhammad Speakswas also a radio program.
The various radio spots that hehad all around the country were
(52:15):
called it was the MuhammadSpeaks radio broadcast.
And it was so important that ifyour temple allowed through not
paying what was needed to bepaid, if you didn't keep that
radio program on the air, youweren't gonna stay the minister.
(53:03):
Whether it's a radio program, itdoesn't matter.
Now, message to the black man issimilar to that in you can't say
message to the black man is onebook.
What is our savior has arrived?
Our savior has arrived, is amessage to the black man from
(53:26):
our savior, master faradmuhammad, through his messenger,
the most honorable ElijahMuhammad, the fall of America.
The fall of America is a messageto us from Master Farad Muhammad
through the most honorableElijah Muhammad.
How to eat to live is a messagefrom God in person through his
(53:51):
messenger of how we should eatin order to live.
Supreme Wisdom, book one andtwo.
Those two books carry themessage in totality, which
comprises nutrition, diet, andnutrition, the fall of America,
(54:13):
the arrival of our savior, youname it.
So message to the black man isall encompassing.
Now, so when you say what's themost important thing to
remember, I'll take that rightfrom Master Farad Muhammad.
Since the way you framed thequestion is now that he's no
(54:37):
longer alive, the messenger saidin theology of time, which is
part of the message to the blackman, the messenger said, You
must remember.
(55:04):
The messenger said, You mustremember that it was not Jehovah
who destroyed Pharaoh.
He made Moses to do it.
Therefore, if Master FaradMuhammad is the Jehovah of the
(55:24):
Book, and the most honorableElijah Muhammad is the Moses of
the book.
Master Farad Muhammad, theJehovah, the most honorable
Elijah Muhammad, the Moses, heain't dead.
The Holy Quran talks about himbeing made to appear as dead.
(55:48):
The book of Revelation,principle number two, says the
Lamb of God is the right hand ofGod, and that he would be used
by God to bring about thedestruction of the chief enemy
of God.
That's the thing that I wouldsay that is most important to
remember.
And I'm only saying it becausehe said you must remember.
SPEAKER_02 (56:22):
On that note, if you want to share anything else, let
us know uh where to find you ifanyone wants to uh join the
temple or or contact you.
Uh, if you want to let themknow, you know, you could, you
know, yes, say that now.
SPEAKER_00 (56:39):
Our YouTube channel now is Minister Eric Muhammad.
It used to be Muhammad's Temple15, but they took it down.
We had another one that was NOITemple, but they took it down.
NOI Temple 15, but they took itdown.
(57:00):
That's our email address, NOITemple15 at Aol.com.
So our YouTube channel isminister Eric Muhammad.
The whole word minister, Ericand Muhammad spelled out.
That's where our YouTube channelis, and our YouTube channel, if
(57:21):
you click on the about, it'llbring down all of the
information that we're talkingabout.
But you can follow us on uh X,you can follow us on Facebook,
and we don't have much of anInstagram.
(57:43):
I just don't have thepersonality to be taking a bunch
of pictures and say, hey guys,look at my pictures.
I'm not into that, I'm too oldfor that.
SPEAKER_02 (57:53):
Got you, got you.
Thank you for coming out thisevening.
I really appreciate you, brotherEric Muhammad.
We will build on the next uh thenext podcast that we will do.
And on that note, peace toeverybody in the chat.
I really appreciate y'all.
We got another podcast coming upin two minutes, is a
(58:13):
pre-recorded.
It's a rapper by the name of ohmy god, uh Lady Luck.
Lady Luck is a pre-recorded.
Mike did that podcast like aweek or so ago.
Check it out.
This is the first time it'spremiering, and we are out of
here.
Peace.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.