Nation of Islam - Kevin Ali - NYPTALKSHOW Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
what's going on?
Everybody out.
There is ron brown lmc, thepeople's fitness professional,
aka soul brother, number onereporter for duty, and we have
the brother minister, kevinmuhammad, in the building from
the nation of.
Is Peace to you, minister KevinAli.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Peace, my brother.
As-salamu alaykum, all the goodnames belong to the black men,
but the one in particular that Iuse is Ali, but we're Muhammad
too.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Right, indeed, indeed , indeed.
Thank you for whoever's viewingright now.
Really appreciate you on thecheck in.
We started a little earlier.
We started a little earlier.
Oh wow, we got 10 views already.
You must be popular, brother.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
No, brother, no you're, you're the one making it
happen, my brother.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, peace have been .
Peace have been peace to you.
Uh, hope all is well, man.
Um, kind of learning about youonline I'm seeing uh, it's a
beautiful thing, brother, my oneof the younger brothers all
praises due to Allah all right,so now let's go right into it.
Minister kevin ali, let's talkabout it.
Where were you born and raised.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Well, first, first, my brother Ron, I want to thank
you for inviting me on yourphenomenal show.
It is growing by leaps andbounds.
You're reaching a sector of ourpeople, of our family, who want
to know, who want to learn.
You're educating them.
I mean, this is a phenomenalthing in this day and time and I

(01:45):
just wanted to say I salute youfor what you're doing.
And I just wanted to open inthe name of Allah, who came in
the person of Master FaradMuhammad, thanking him for his
coming and thanking him forraising his last and greatest
messenger, the Honorable ElijahMuhammad.
Well, brother Ron, I wasactually born.
I'm joining you now fromCharlotte, north Carolina.

(02:07):
I've been in North Carolinaapproximately since 1997.
But I was born in Glenridge,new Jersey, which is a suburb of
Newark.
But my family moved to Orange,new Jersey, in 1969.
And that's where I cut my teeth, so to speak, in Essex County,

(02:29):
in Orange, new Jersey, rightthere in what we call the Valley
, right off of Scotland Road,right on the border of Orange
and South Orange, from 1969until I graduated high school in
1981.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Nice, nice, I didn't know Newark had a suburb.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Well, I mean, I say that for those of us who are in
the South.
They tend to think of citiesthan suburbs.
But, as you know, up in wherewe're from, as they say up top,
it's all one big city.
You can't tell one from theother.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Right Indeed, indeed Now, growing up in, would you
say, orange County.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Orange, new Jersey.
Orange, new Jersey, essexCounty.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Essex Right, essex County.
Growing up in Essex County,what else is a part of Essex
County?

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Orange, east Orange, montclair, irvington, newark,
glen Ridge all are part of EssexCounty.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Got you, got you.
So now, growing up there inthat time you said 1969.
What were the things going onaround there in 1969, the 70s in
that area that basically openedyour eyes to the messengers'
teachings?

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well, it's interesting that you say that
because I really didn't have myeyes opened consciously to the
messengers' teachings until anumber of years later, in 1987.
But what began planting theseeds?
Growing up in Essex County, andI would say from the time that
Honorable Elijah Muhammaddeparted in 1975, I was

(04:13):
ancillarily aware of the nationof Islam as a young man.
I'll be 63 years old, my nextbirthday, so in 75, I was about
12 years old.
But I remember the brothersprior to 75 selling the papers.
I remember the Muhammad Speaknewspaper being in all the
barbershops.

(04:33):
I do recall the HonorableElijah Muhammad or one of his
ministers, like MinisterFarrakhan, being on the Muhammad
Speaks radio broadcast on WNJRin New York.
But after 1975, you startedseeing a decline and I wasn't

(04:55):
perceiving this at the time.
I'm just going by my historicalknowledge.
What was interesting to me andwhat I have to give in my older
age?
I have to give the brothersprops, and when I say the
brothers I'm talking about thenations of gods and earths.
They kept the lessons, the coreof the Honorable Elijah

(05:18):
Muhammad's teachings.
They kept it together.
Wallace D Muhammad toldeveryone to throw away the
lessons after 1975.
Fortunately and you weren'teven born then.
But fortunately, I'll say you,you brothers, kept it together
and it got enough into my ear sothat when my mentor said that

(05:39):
the white man is the devil in1987 to me, I said, yeah right,
the white man is the devil.
I said in 1987 to me I said,yeah right, the white man is the
devil.
Y'all coobs right, because weused to call them y'all coobs,
not even knowing why, as a youngman growing up in Orange, new
Jersey, so I know that's a lot.

(06:01):
But Orange was a transitionaltown of Irish immigrants and
Italian immigrants and it begantransitioning to black American
immigrants who are moving upfrom the South and moving out of
areas like New York and Newarkto what they considered more of
the quote unquote burbs orsuburbs.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Got you, got you Okay .
So now, when you caught the,when you started to gravitate
towards the lessons, and you got, you know, got this mentor.
What age was that?

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Let's see.
In 1987, 1988, I met one of thehonorable Elijah Muhammad's
ministers by the name ofMinister David Bachar, who was
the minister of Temple no 5 inCincinnati, under the messenger,
from approximately 1966 untilhis departure in 1975.
I met him then.

(06:58):
So what would I have been?
I would have been approximately2087 minus 63 is what I can't
do math in my head, brother, yougot the mathematics down on me.
So I was what?
26 years old then 27 years old,and I believe I had a very
unique perspective because myparents took me out of public

(07:18):
school in sixth grade in Orange,new Jersey, and sent me to all
white, exclusive, all-whiteprivate school in sixth grade,
where I graduated in 1981.
I had a graduating class of 100, and there was only two
original people in my graduatingclass.
I happened to be one of them,but my mentor, minister David

(07:40):
Bachal, was also a trainedlawyer.
He was the assistant stateattorney general in the state of
Ohio when he accepted Islamfrom the Honorable Elijah
Muhammad.
So the way he delivered it tome, it just was very logical, it
made sense.
It made connections with thehistory that I studied in that
white school.
We learned of Patrice Lumumba.

(08:02):
We learned read theautobiography of Malcolm X.
We learned of all these greatAfrican leaders and great
revolutionary leaders in a whiteprivate school what we were not
being taught in the quoteunquote black public schools.
So it just made, pardon me, itjust made sense to me what he

(08:24):
shared with me in 87 88, and Icount that as my genesis in
islam, although I would notformally write my letter and get
on forms until about four yearslater.
Uh, under the in the final callincorporated.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
So when you say get on.
So when you say, uh, get onforms, what does that mean?

Speaker 2 (08:48):
get on forms is when you officially register with
your nation.
It is a letter that you copy tothe best of your ability, like
you're trying to make aphotocopy, except you're doing
it with a pen.
Dear Savior, allah, ourdeliverer, I desire a holy name
from thee.

(09:08):
Please give me my original name.
My slave name is as follows andthen you sign it, kevin Tisdale
.
And then, once your letterpasses what is known as
laborer's inspection, and thatis, it must be perfectly done,
no crossouts, no scribbles.

(09:29):
It must look like a photocopy,it's got to be neat, clean, it's
got to have your address, yoursignature on it and care of the
honorable Elijah Muhammad, andit passes what's known as
laborers inspection, where theministers, captain, secretary,
mgt, captain, they say, okay,the letter looks good.
Then they send you a lettersaying back, saying your letter

(09:50):
has passed laborers inspection.
We pray that it passes Allah'sinspection.
So all of our letters, actually, even though they pass laborers
inspection, they are stillpending the scrutiny of Allah.
So that's what we mean bygetting on forms, okay.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Now, you know, without being, controversial
brother.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Never would we do something like that, never would
we be controversial.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Okay, so Allah?
You know they have to pass thescrutiny of Allah.
So who?
How is that process?

Speaker 2 (10:36):
That's an excellent question, but we are taught both
in the Bible and in the HolyQuran, whether you're a
Christian, jew, orthodox Muslimor a member of the nation of
Islam, that we will be called toaccount and stand before our
Maker, our Creator, our God, onthat Day of Judgment.
The particulars of how that isgoing to take place, I could not
tell you.
Okay, 10 days prior to thejudgment, the honorable Elijah

(11:03):
Muhammad teaches us thatleaflets will be dropped from
the baby planes telling us whereto go.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Okay, now, one thing that caught my attention as well
is that number one Quran right,there's a few ways I've heard
it pronounced.
I've heard the more signs.
Quran right, there's a few waysI've heard it pronounced.
I've heard the more sciencetemple members pronounce it.

(11:33):
Quran, quran, quran.
I've heard people from theIslam, from our Islam, call it
and call it yes, sir, and I'veheard Elijah Muhammad say call,
call, call, when, like how yousaid it?

(11:55):
Kwan Kwan, kwan Kwan.
I've heard, I've heard themessages say it like that.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yes, and that's, and that's where I got it from.
All of those ways to pronounceit, I can't say that there's a
wrong, a right or wrong way topronounce it.
But yes, you did pick up that Iwas pronouncing it the way.
I heard the honorable elijahmuhammad say the holy kawan
right, like a q u w aN type ofsound.

(12:25):
I never heard him detail orarticulate the exegesis of that
pronunciation, I just copied it.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
So now peace to Leo the lion.
So now you passed.
Now you got the form.
It passed through the laborers,through Allah.
Now what happens next?

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Well, it actually hasn't passed Allah's inspection
yet.
Ok, from my understanding ofhow the Honorable Elijah
Muhammad teaches what's next asfar as my progression in Islam?
Yes, sir.
So I got on forms in 1991 inthe Final Corps Incorporated.
At that time I was living inMontgomery Alabama.

(13:13):
I had met Minister Bacha in 87in Dayton Ohio.
He became a brother and amentor of sorts to me, a
business partner of sorts withme.
We had moved down to MontgomeryAlabama and I ran across and I
was asking him you know, wherecan I get more of this?
Because he wasn't doing anyactive ministry at that time.
He didn't have an active temple, he was the father and husband

(13:37):
of eight children, but he wasnot doing any active ministry.
I said, where can I get more ofthis?
He said, well, in so many words.
And when we were off airbrother, I'll tell you the exact
words he said, but they're notPG friendly.
But he said, as far as I cansee, and he told me, all of the
different groups that wereclaiming the honorable Elijah

(13:58):
Muhammad, including his sonWabas Deed Mohammed, including
several others.
But he said it said it appearsto me that Louis Farrakhan is
sticking closest to what theboss taught.
So if you want to get some more, you go ahead and see what he's
talking about in so many words.
He said but I got a caveat foryou.

(14:19):
He said he's got an ego problemand if he starts to add himself
into the teachings, run fromhim.
And I never forgot that he'snow.
He said now don't tell themthat you know me, because at
that time, uh, wavis d mohammedwanted to kill me and my family.

(14:43):
And he said they're both,they're both together like peas
in a pod.
I never forgot that.
I went on to become a privatesoldier.
I worked my way up and myselfand another brother, brother
Gregory X, who had gotten his exup in New York City, we went up
to it.
We were going up to Atlantatwice a month to get training

(15:04):
because there was nothing goingon in Montgomery at that time.
We went twice a month toAtlanta, georgia, to get
training.
Minister Van Muhammad wasFarrakhan's regional minister at
that time.
That's where we got on forums.
That's where we got some oldfinal call newspapers and
started selling newspapers onthe corner of Rosa Parks and
Fairview Road in Montgomery,alabama, right in front of the

(15:26):
church's chicken.
We eventually parlayed thatinto building a local temple
there.
At first I was the secretary ofthat temple.
I would open up the meeting.
They would send somebody downfrom Atlanta to teach and I'm
like you don't need to sendanybody down to teach, I'm well
capable of teaching.
But you know, you know howthose politics go.

(15:46):
They give their boys littlecities.
Eventually I became theminister.
I'm really really shorteningthis up, but I eventually became
the minister of that city.
They played the game with meabout papers we were selling,
you know, 600 to 700 final callnewspapers.
There was only three or fourbrothers who we could count on.

(16:07):
This is not like the streets ofNew York or Chicago, this is
Montgomery, alabama.
And they wanted to send me3,000 papers and wanted me to
pay for it with my credit card.
I said no, sir, you're gettingreal ornery and real
disrespectful.
Brother minister, I said Ididn't come to be bullied.
I said y'all can't bully me.
I said no, I'm not doing that.

(16:28):
I have enough soldiers here tosell six to 700.
We can increase one or two or300, not to 3000.
Well, man, we need to bust you.
I said well, I didn't come herefor a post, so if you want to
bust me, go right ahead Now, atthis time it wasn't van muhammad
at this time, it was captaincurtis muhammad and, uh, jamil
muhammad at that time.

(16:49):
And I gave up that post inapproximately september of 94 no
, september of 90, september of94.
Then the following year Iformally stepped away from the
final call.
I still was selling paper,still was a private soldier.

(17:11):
I stepped away once I realizedthe Million man March was
actually going to take place inlate spring, early summer of 95.
I said you know what?
This is enough for me, becausepreviously, at that Labor's
meeting about a little a yearago, I heard them calling lewis
farrakhan, dear holy apostle,and I never forgot what minister

(17:31):
bacha said if they start, if hestarts to include himself in
the teachings, run from him,there's only one dear holy
apostle in the nation of islam,the honorable elijah mahmoud.
So that's a real short,succinct history of that brings
us up to approximately 1996.
Later I moved to Charlotte,north Carolina, in 1997.

(17:53):
I actually started doing activeministry here in Charlotte,
meeting at a community centerfrom about 1999 until about 2008
, 2009, on a weekly basis.
I have not been doing anyactive ministry, any active
temple teaching, in Charlottesince that time in 2009.
Myself and minister eric.

(18:15):
We crossed paths and beganworking together and met each
other on a message board in theearly 2000s called seventhfamcom
and farrakhanfactorcom, where Iwas, you know, keyboard banging
, supporting and defending theteachings of the honorable
elijah muhammad and at the sametime we both were reaching out

(18:39):
to each other when we realizedwait a minute, we think alike.
We got to hook up.
And that's basically whenmyself and Minister Eric
Muhammad hooked up inapproximately 2000, 2001.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Okay, Okay.
So now, yeah, you sped it up alittle bit.
So now, as far as the teachersare concerned, I want to talk
about the books, right?
Yes, sir, so I don't want to.
You know what, Before we fastforward to the books?
When you come into the nationright, the nation of Islam, what

(19:13):
are the first things thatyou're supposed to get of Islam?
What are the first things thatyou're supposed to get?
You get, you know, once youcome in.
You know, you did your letterand all that.
Now what's next?

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Excellent question.
Once your letter passes, youare to report, and the letter
under the messenger, the letterwas sent to Chicago.
You would be then registered onwhat's called the Lamb Book of
Life.
But in the absence of that,that sounds interesting.

(19:45):
In the absence of that, youreport to your local temple, of
course, where you're going toput your letter in, because we
don't have any leader inabsentia of Messenger Muhammad.
And now you are supposed torecite you get your student
enrollment and your actual factsand you are supposed to recite
your student enrollment andactual facts.
Once you recite by heart thestudent enrollment and the

(20:07):
actual facts, you're also giventhe rules of Islam.
You're also given the Muslimopening and closing prayer.
Once you pass, recite thosestudent enrollment and actual
facts, then you are given your X.
So I became in April 4th no,excuse me, april 7th 1991, I

(20:30):
became Kevin X.
X to tell X-ing out the name ofthe x slave master signifying in
mathematics unknown.
I don't know what my originalname is, but that letter is not
just a letter.
It's a letter to god care ofhis messenger.

(20:51):
But it's really a prayer.
Please Allah, give me myoriginal name.
Please Allah, I desire toreclaim my own.
I desire a holy name from me.
My slave name is as followsOnce you recite those student
Romans and actual facts, thenyour name is X'd out.

(21:14):
Excuse me, not your name, theslave master's name is X'd out.
And now the struggle and thejourney really begins.
You think most people thinkit's a finish at this point.
No, it's a start.
You are now being reborn again,and that's why the Bible says a
man cannot enter the kingdom ofheaven unless he first be

(21:37):
reborn.
Well, how can I be reborn?
How can I enter into mymother's womb again as a big man
?
We never understood that in thechurch, but for the first time
I understood it, as a followerof the Honorable Elijah Muhammad
, what that rebirth meant.
Now you're starting as a newindividual, a new growth Kevin X

(22:01):
, james X, eric X.
And if there was another Kevinin the temple that I would
become Kevin 2X.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
Okay, and that great explanation.
So now, after all of theseyears, I know the praise is due
to Allah.
Thank you for that.
That really helped.
So now, now you're born again,what's what's next?
I don't know if you can go intoyou know greater detail.
However, you know, you know, dowhatever you can, the best you

(22:27):
can, without giving too muchinformation, I guess without
giving too much information.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Now you are assigned to your class and the class that
you are assigned to.
If you are a man, you areassigned to the fruit of Islam.
This is the name of themilitary training given to the
men who accepted Islam in NorthAmerica MGT and GCC.
Muslim girls training andgeneral civilization class how
to keep home, how to raise yourchildren, how, in general, how

(22:53):
to act at home and abroad.
Now you are given your place inyour class.
Many people think that it is theSunday lecture where you learn
your religion, and that isreally not quite correct.
The Sunday lecture is to givethe new convert, the new
potential guest or visitor achance to become familiar with

(23:14):
these teachings enough for themto say I want to accept them.
But where you actually learnyour religion and how to be a
Muslim is in the FOI class andthe MGT class.
Depending on the size of thetemple, you are assigned to
either a squad leader or you'reassigned to a lieutenant, or, if

(23:39):
it's a smaller temple, you'reassigned directly to the captain
.
But that is who now teaches youhow to be a Muslim.
Ie teaches you your religion.
It is the lieutenant, it is thesquad leader who teaches you
how to be a Muslim.
Quote-unquote teaches you yourreligion.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
Check, check, check, ok, ok.
So now you're in, so FOI class,aside from Sunday, isn't there
a Friday class as well?

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Well, if we're going as how it was under the
Honorable Elijah Muhammad, as welearned in the church and maybe
you've heard this expression anidle mind is what.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
Idle mind is the devil's playground, the devil's
workshop, workshop right, notthe devil's playground, no.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Well, playground, playground, workshop, all those
apply.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
Right.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
So the Honorable Elijah Muhammad kept us together
and kept us busy, you know,both socially training-wise.
So Sunday was the generalSunday meeting.
All of the surroundingaffiliate temples that were
smaller study groups or ABs orCs.
They would come to the largertemple, say in Newark or New
York, on a Sunday.
Monday was FOI class.

(25:01):
Tuesday, I believe, was afamily night.
Wednesday was another templemeeting.
I can't remember what was onThursday.
Friday again was another templemeeting, not a study group, not
where everybody sits aroundtalking about what they think
and what their perspective is.
We don't know what ourperspective is.

(25:21):
We have no idea.
We are coming in being trained.
Someone more trained than usmust teach us.
So on the Wednesday and Fridaymeeting it wasn't generally the
main minister of the temple,like James Shabazz, number 25 in
Newark, or Minister LouisFarrakhan, number seven in New
York, or Jeremiah Shabazz atnumber 12 in Philadelphia.

(25:41):
They would be the main lecturergenerally on that big meeting,
sunday.
On Wednesdays and Fridays,usually it was one of the
members of the minister'straining class who would teach
that lecture On their way tobecoming and learning how to run
a temple of their own and teacha temple of their own If the

(26:02):
big minister, the main ministerof the city, taught on that
Wednesday or Friday.
Oh, that was a huge treat Ifthe main minister the Monday FOI
class that was run by, not theminister, that's run by the
captain, that's the captain'sclass.
That was run by, not theminister, that's run by the
captain, that's the captain'sclass.
But he sometimes would invitethe main minister in and that
was a great treat to have themain minister come and address

(26:23):
the fruit of Islam.
So he always had something to dofor us.
And Saturday was MGT class.
In between we would have Muslimbazaars, we would have Muslim
fashion shows, we would haveMuslim parades where the fruit
and the MGT would march down thestreet on a Wednesday evening

(26:45):
or Friday evening or sometimes aSunday morning and march and
the people would follow usmarching down to the temple.
So we were always active,always doing something in the,
in the community.
The Honorable Ajaan always hadus doing something for every day
of the week.
Oh, and of course, in thelarger cities Muhammad's
University of Islam is going on.

(27:05):
The school, right, right.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
You're going to school, right?
So you know, I want to doanother podcast with you, if you
, if you have the information,um, on what was going on at that
time, like from the school andand and all these things.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Now, um, that doesn't exist any longer no, no, sir,
it prior after 1975 that prettymuch went away with wallace d
muhammad, uh, dismantling all ofthe businesses, dismantling all
of the.
We had aling, all of the.
We had a bank, a banking system.
We had two airliners that wereflying around.

(27:42):
One of the messenger's sons wasa pilot.
We had the Mohammed cold storageplant where it used to be in
Chicago, called Labretti's Beefor Labretti's in Chicago, called
the breadies beef or thebreadies.
It was a, it was a.
It was a gigantic two blocklong butcher shop and it's.
It served all the meats to allthe restaurants in Chicago.

(28:04):
Messenger bought it from thebreadie and Italian and he kept
the name the breadies and thebrothers, and he kept all those
contracts for all therestaurants.
So the people would come to thecontract and you see the
brothers, and, and he kept allthose contracts for all the
restaurants.
So the people would come to thecontract and you see the
brothers there, and of coursethey'd be in there not, they'd
not in their suit and a bow tie,they would be in their, uh, in

(28:27):
their butcher gear like a, likea, like a coverall hold that,
hold that thought.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Salam ala alternate alternate.
Salaam Ala alternate channel.
You can rebroadcast this onyour YouTube, no problem, just
make sure the NYP talk show logois up there.
Don't take any of that out, sowe can get promotion over here.
You can use it, don't mindPeace.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
And Brother Salaam is one of our supporters of Temple
no 15 out in Pasadena,california.
Great brother, that's a lot ofhistory behind him, so he'll,
he'll do right by you.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Thank you, thank you.
So now you were saying, wewould leave off.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
We were talking about the messenger buying the
Bredy's butchering complex Rightand had the contracts for every
restaurant in Chicago.
They got their meat fromlibretti's.
The messenger bought it.
Now the brothers are workingthere and the people would come
from the restaurant and so thebrothers would come up to him
and say, what can I get for you,captain?
What I get for your boss?

(29:28):
This was white people coming topatronize us.
We just, hey, devil, what kindof meat you want?
Devil, you getting your meat?
What you doing here?
No, hey, captain, you know theylike being called captain, they
like being called boss.
The messenger trained them to dothis wow so that we could enter

(29:52):
into the world of civilizedbusinessmen.
Right, what up, captain?
What do we call if we carry him?
Calling him captain, he playingus all this into the world of
civilized businessmen.
Right, what up, captain.
What do we call him?
We call him Captain.
He's paying us all this moneyfor all this meat.
He's fitting to buy, right, Isay fitting to.
Even though I'm from New Jersey, I've been in the South over 40
years, brother.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
So we had a.
It was a beautiful burgeoningnation, a beautiful burgeoning
enterprise, a beautifulburgeoning enterprise and with a
conservative rate of growth.
That $80 to $100 millionenterprise back then would be
conservatively right now over abillion dollars corporation, not
to mention your supermarket,your bakery, your supermarket,

(30:39):
your bakery.
The messenger was the first oneto start fast food franchising.
Wasn't no McDonald's prior to1960, 1965.
Wasn't no Wendy's?
Wasn't no Chick-fil-A?
No, what was the same in everycity was your bakery your
supermarket salam restaurant inevery city?
Was your bakery yoursupermarket salam restaurant in

(31:00):
every city?
That was done by the messenger.
Guess who duplicated thatexample?
Who?
The Caucasian people.
That's where they got the ideato duplicate it from Same in
every city.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Where can I find this information?

Speaker 2 (31:20):
from Same in every city?
Where can I find thisinformation, brother?
I have garnered this over theyears of being involved with my
mentor, minister Bachal, whopassed away in 2001.
Another mentor that heintroduced me to, minister John
Muhammad, who passed away in2014.
Minister John Muhammad was themessenger's minister at temple
number 26 uh in san francis.
Well, first started at templenumber 11 in springfield,

(31:40):
massachusetts.
Then the messenger sent himtemple number 26 in san
francisco.
Not the messenger's bloodbrother, but this was the former
john bx who was mentioned inthe autobiography of malcolm x
that malcolm said he was scaredto death of john bx.
Later, later, he became, in 72,minister John Muhammad.
So, just in talking with theseelders over the years, as far as

(32:02):
I know, brother, it's it'sreally all oral history now, but
you may be able to garner it inthe Library of Congress and
other places that storemicrofiche and microfilms of the
Muhammad Speaks and of variousnewspapers around the country.
It's not pieced together.
It's not put together in anyone place that I'm aware of.

(32:23):
I'm going off a memory rightnow of what I've learned from
these great giants over theyears that I've been associated
with them prior to their death.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
So Wallace Dean Muhammad, he just dismantled the
whole thing.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
He said what, what, what do we need a supermarket?
What do we need farms for?
You know, america has farms andsupermarkets.
What do we need it for?
He dismantled, he dismantledeverything.
The only thing that he kind ofleft intact was he renamed
Muhammad's University intoSister Clara Muhammad University
, but then over the years, eventhat started going down Under

(33:05):
the messenger.
Muhammad's University was oneof the finest secondary level
education schools.
It was on par with a Catholicschool education.
Black people who were notmembers of the Nation of Islam
were sending their children toMuhammad's universities in the
major cities and their parentswere so enthralled and impressed

(33:31):
with the change in theirchildren and what their children
were learning, how sharp theirchildren were becoming, that
many parents converted to Islambecause of what was being done
with their children in theschool.
That's how powerful Muhammad'suniversity was under the
honorable Elijah Muhammad.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Okay, so after Wallace Dean did what he did,
what happened to the nation ofislam?
It was basically the nation ofislam as we see it today was has
been under uh, minister lewisfarrakhan well, uh, historically
, wallace d muhammad took overFebruary 26th 1975.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
Within six months, brother, six months after that,
in September of 1975, he wasanointed as the new leader of
the Nation of Islam.
In September 1975, there was aparty at Muhammad's Temple of
Islam, that complex on StonyIsland Avenue in Chicago.
And when I say a party, brother, I literally mean a literal

(34:44):
party.
Anybody who says that I'm lying, they can go verify this in the
Muhammad Speaks at that time.
At that party there was dancing, there was drinking, there was
sweethearting of unmarriedcouples and there were sweet
hearting with devils.
One of the attendees of thatparty was Phil Donahue, who came

(35:05):
to that party with his thenblack girlfriend.
Oh, wow.
So this is six months afternight of the supposed death of
the Honorable Elijah Muhammad.
People started going and thisleadership started going
completely back on what hetaught.
Many people just stepped away,the private soldiers.

(35:28):
Many of them just stepped awaybecause they remember the
message saying that these thingswould happen and they said
we're just going to step awayand we're going to fade into the
background and let this thingplay out, because the messenger
said this would happen and theysaid we're just going to step
away and we're going to fadeinto the background and let this
thing play out, because themessenger said this would happen
and they just continue toprivately believe in what the

(35:50):
Honorable Elijah Muhammad taughtthe mentor who I ran into.
He stepped away that day.
Minister Louis Farrakhan did not.
He stayed with Wallace DMuhammad for three and a half
years as his internationalrepresentative.
He wasn't kicking and screamingand protesting.
He actually was teachingWallace D Muhammad's doctrine

(36:14):
better than Wallace D Muhammadtaught it.
Wallace D Muhammad had a bookof supreme wisdom according to W
D Mohammed's doctrine, betterthan Wallace D Mohammed taught
it.
Wallace D Mohammed had a bookof supreme wisdom according to
WD Mohammed.
Remember that he told him tothrow away the messenger's
supreme wisdom and themessenger's lessons.
He then gave the people his ownbook of lessons that the
ministers, like MinisterFarrakhan, began teaching the
people out of.
That the ministers, likeMinister Farrakhan, began

(36:35):
teaching the people out of.
And Minister Farrakhan stayedwith Wallace D Muhammad until
approximately three and a halfyears later, when he left him in
78, minister Farrakhan Wallaceput Minister Farrakhan.
He pulled him out of New York.
He pulled Minister JohnMuhammad out of San Francisco
and he put them two huge templesand he put them in a very small

(36:55):
temple on the west side ofchicago, together and cut both
of their paychecks, and that'swhen minister farrakhan decided
to rebuild the work.
I put that in quotes of thehonorable elijah muhammad and he
had his first savior's day, Ibelieve in 1981.

(37:15):
I believe.
Okay, that's and that's whatthe media considers the nation
of islam.
But what rocketed ministerfarrakhan to prominence I don't
know if you remember this weretwo interviews on national
daytime television.
Yep, I know one of them.
One was in 1985, the other wasin 1990.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Do you remember who did those interviews, brother?
I forgot the European's name.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Who did I say?
Who did I just tell you was atthe party, donahue.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
Donahue, phil Donahue .
Donahue, that was in 85, right,yes, sir, and the second one
was in 90.
And that was what was that?
That was Phil Donahue.
That was in 85, right, yes, sir, and the second one was in 90.
And that was what was that.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
That was Phil Donahue .
That was still Phil Donahue.
Yeah, he did two with PhilDonahue and then, after that one
, he started doing a whole bunchof others.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
One.
I think he did one with MikeWallace.
He did Barbara Walters, I don'tremember.
Then he was on, like rememberhe was on Time Magazine and all
that.
But Phil Donahue was the firstone to rocket him to national
prominence the same Phil Donahuethat was at that party that was
thrown by Wallace D Mohamed.

(38:33):
They think very far in advance,brother.
They plan ahead for decades.
We barely plan from Friday toMonday, Except what club we're
going to on Friday and Saturdayand we already know what church

(38:54):
we're going to on Sunday and wegot to be back to work Monday.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
We know that that's our plan.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
So what are you saying happened in that regard?
It's all theory and it's allspeculation, but just based on
those little pieces that I'veput together, he was rocketed to
prominence.
He's a very talented orator,he's a very talented individual
individual.
But he was given that nationalstage and he performed on that

(39:22):
national stage.
They tried to give thatnational stage to wallace, but
he, he was just not a verycharismatic individual.
Remember the fbi said we havegot to stop the rise of a black
mess, we've got to stop Elijahand that means also stopping
anybody who would represent himproperly.

(39:46):
One of the best ways to combatto the Caucasian people, islam,
as taught by the messenger, is adisease.
The best way to combat adisease is to create a vaccine.
How do you create a vaccine?
You take a weak part of thedisease right, then you inject

(40:07):
it and then it makes the peopleimmune to the full thing.
So they took a little bit ofIslam without the black
separatism, without thepan-Africanism, without the
separation, without the nationalunity, without the national
flag, just praying and going toMecca.
They took that and inoculatedpeople with it.

(40:31):
Well, I already have Islam, Idon't need that flag.
I don't.
I don't need that flag.
I don't need a separate nationor territory.
I can get along in peace, weall.
We're all God's children.
Well, now we're right back toChristianity.
Very wise people that we'regoing up against brother.
Very wise people.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
They're scientists of how to keep us off balance
right, that's a fact, all right,so now, uh to fast forward.
Okay, so uh, war is.
I'm like now you got methinking so.
Uh, wallace dean, he did whathe did.
Farrakhan skyrocketed toprominence.

(41:12):
What was taught under farrakhan?
Did he still have supremewisdom?

Speaker 2 (41:23):
when I was involved in 1991 it appeared that he was
still teaching the messengersteachings.
In retrospect, looking back, Istarted there were things that I
was hearing in 1991 from hisrostrum that was like okay, but
somewhere along in the late 1994, 1995, like I said, I was at my

(41:45):
first national laborers meetingin Chicago and they started,
they introduced him as theapostle of almighty Allah and I
was like yeah, hmm, and I saweverybody getting up cheering
and I'm like okay, let me get upand cheer, so somebody don't
see me not getting up andcheering.
So I just kind of got up andwas watching people.
I said yeah, they're settinghim up as the new messenger.

(42:06):
I said this is not Islam, it'staught by the Honorable Elijah
Malman.
And I stepped away late springof 1995.
I stepped away late spring of1995.
Several years later I heard thatthey were introducing these
things of Scientology.
Well, scientology is nothingnew Scientology.

(42:31):
I read that book in 1981 as asenior in high school.
From L Ron Hubbard and alsounder Wallace D Muhammad.
They were dibbling and dabblingin Scientology.
It was a government psy-op.
One of the offshoots of thatgovernment psy-op was Reverend
Jim Jones.
Remember him, the People's.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Temple in.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Guyana yeah With them , 900 people that drank Kool-Aid
.
Yeah, reverend, jim Jones wasan offshoot from the Church of
Scientology.
If you look at his cross, itlooks just from the church of
scientology if you look at his,if you look at his.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Uh, if you look at his cross, it looks just like
the cross of scientology rightnow.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Now, real quick, he spoke.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
He spoke at temple number two under wawas d
muhammad, with farrakhan sittingright next to him oh wait, I
think our brother is uh, ishmaelbay broke that down the brother
creator of Boundless Universe.
Can you ask the brother is hefamiliar with the documentary by
Omar Shabazz on the MinisterFarrakhan, on the Minister

(43:29):
Farrakhan and Malcolm X?
If yes, any thoughts?

Speaker 2 (43:34):
I'm not familiar with that.
It's a documentary.
You mean like a filmdocumentary?
Yes, I'm not familiar with that.
It's a documentary.
You mean like a filmdocumentary?
Yes, I'm not familiar with it.
I know that name, omar Shabazz,does ring a bell.
I'm not familiar with thedocumentary.
Is that the one where they putforth the notion that he somehow
was involved in theassassination of Malcolm X?
I have no idea.
Yeah, I'm not familiar with it.

(43:57):
But suffice to say that therewas a lot going on during that
time under Malcolm X, when hewas separated from his teacher.
There is a laborers meetingthat was done during that time
where we have the HonorableElijah Muhammad on tape saying
that and you got to listen tothe whole thing.
You gotta kind of read betweenthe lines.

(44:18):
You gotta understand what awise man the messenger was and
he said he said brother Lewis,malcolm sure thought he had you.
You know it's only speculationwhy he said that I had my
theories.
I'm not going to promotetheories on a public forum, but
we have the messenger sayingthat to lewis farrakhan on tape.

(44:42):
Brother lewis not just to him.
he's saying it to all thelaborers a lot of times when
farrakhan says the messengertold me this and the messenger
told me that he wasn't the onlyone in the room.
The messenger met with hislaboring staff, his ministers,
twice a month.
They flew in Chicago to meetwith him and would fly in on

(45:03):
other occasions if they neededmore assistance.
But in 1975, of course, withMalcolm, there's a lot of issues
going on.
Even in 1972, if you lookclosely at the Savior's Day of
1972, and this is on film youwill see the laborers actually
trying to force the messenger tosit down.
There's great symbolism tomaking a leader sit who doesn't

(45:29):
want to sit and he said get yourhands off of me.
Leader sit who doesn't want tosit.
And he said get your hands offof me.
And then the message had toclean up because you know well,
I know they want me to be mostcomfortable, but they were
actually trying to sit themessenger down in 72.
72 was also the year whenminister james shabazz was
assassinated in Newark.

(45:50):
His murder is still unsolved tothis day.
Many things have gone on.
Remember, brother, we are notjust a religious organization,
we are actually a nation, andAmerica deals with its nations,

(46:11):
both her friends and her foes.
Her friends are her allies, buther foes?
They work to keep those nationsdestabilized, disunified,
infighting anything but focusingon the mission and their real
objective.
That is, the goal of the UnitedStates counterintelligence

(46:35):
program is to destabilize anynation that might be a threat to
America, and I submit that thebiggest threat to America is the
teachings of the honorableElijah Muhammad ie, the nation
of Islam.
He's been dealing with her usfor since 1930.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
So why do you say that that's the biggest threat?

Speaker 2 (47:03):
The biggest threat to the Caucasian people?
Yeah, because America is thebiggest, baddest bully on the
planet.
America has emerged in theworld order as the standalone,
heavyweight champion of theworld.
No one stands against America.

(47:25):
America has defeated all foes.
I remember during the Gulf Warthey thought Saddam was going to
do something.
They rolled over Iraq like itwasn't even there.
Same thing with Iran.
That's why they came to America.
The messenger teaches us that nonation could attack you here in

(47:47):
America.
This was in the heads of yourfathers.
Great Atlantic Ocean on theeast, pacific Ocean on the west.
But you're not so far out ofthe way that you can get out of
the way of God.
He can get you, no matter whereyou go.
So the biggest threat is thenation of Islam and the biggest

(48:11):
prize is the golden vessels thathe has stolen from the holy
temple of King Nebuchadnezzar.
Those golden vessels, brother,are you and I.
We're symbolically in the Biblecalled golden vessels wine cups
, charms, flowers, roses.

(48:31):
That is describing a peoplethat this country has stolen,
and now God wants to claim themback and because of their
stealing of them, they are goingto be paid a price, because God
promised Abraham that he wouldmake them pay a price for
mistreating us, being their seeda stranger, his seed a stranger

(48:53):
, in a strange land andspitefully used in slavery.
That's why it's the biggestthreat to the stability of
America.
He has to eliminate it in hismind to survive.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
Or at least keep us fighting with each other so that
we won't focus on him oh, thatmust, that must be working and
that's why your programs, likeyourself, are so valuable,
because you're opening thatdialogue in a respectful manner.
You're not arguing and fighting.
You're, you're, you're, you're,you're all asking questions so

(49:33):
that people can learn and acceptit for themselves and and even
yourself, and it even helpsmyself and minister muhammad at
the same time, because, as we'resharing things with you, we're,
we're, we're teaching what oncetaught, twice learned right
exactly so it's a.
It's a beautiful thing you'redoing, brother.
It's a, it's a phenomenal thingyou're doing.

(49:55):
Thank you sir.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
So now, after so farrakhan, so then after
farrakhan took over, so to speaklack a better term.
Uh, taught supreme wisdom.
They started to get intoScientology at around what time
again.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
The first public discussion I heard of
Scientology was around 2011,.
Although it was being discussedprior to that, I don't know
exactly when and, like I said,why was D Mohammed?
And then they were dipping anddabbling in Scientology back in
uh, back in 75 and eight.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
So I stopped really paying real close, close
attention.
I don't know what's going onover there.
Most of the people that I camein with I'll be 63 years old
next birthday and most of theones that I came in with who
were in leadership at that time,they're not around in
leadership anymore.
So I don't know a lot of theones that I came in with who
were in leadership at that timethey're not around in leadership

(50:55):
anymore.
So I don't know a lot of thenewer people.
Again, I was regulated moretowards the South.
I didn't formally accept Islam,but there have been so many.
I don't even know who theminister of New York is under
Farrakhan anymore.
I know who it is in California,I think it's.
I'm not trying to disrespecthis name.
He was the former Tony Muhammad, I think Abdul Saeed Muhammad,

(51:17):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
So how would a successor of the Nation of Islam
would be picked?
Where do you think it's goingto go once Minister Farrakhan
passes on?

Speaker 2 (51:34):
Do you mean a successor of the nation of islam
or do you mean a successor ofthe final call incorporated,
which was is an incorporatedentity 501 c3 of the united
states government?
Which which are you?
I want to clarify your questiona little.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
The final call Brother.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
I don't know, over there in the final call, all I
can do is guess.
I have no clue.
They're going to spook somebodyup and somebody's going to
spook themselves up trying toget those positions.
I don't know.
But for the nation of Islam Iwill say it like the Honorable

(52:13):
Elijah Muhammad said.
They asked him have you chosenfor yourself a successor?
And he said no, I can't do that.
I did not choose myself, sotherefore I can't choose another
.
Since I didn't choose myselfand I'm paraphrasing this here

(52:33):
and since a man has brought youface to face with God and
brought you face to face withthe devil, what more would
another one teach Then?
Then he comes back and saidthere will be no successor.
Once you have the truth, thenation will carry itself on into

(52:55):
the future.
We will be the Allahs, thosecities, those ministers, those
temples, those captains, thosesecretaries, those lieutenants.
That was a structure that wassupposed to remain in place for
us until such time as Americawould be destroyed.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
So what's happening now with, basically?
Is anyone doing what ElijahMuhammad was doing back in his
day With the bank?

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Yes, there are believers around the country,
for instance in Philadelphia.
For instance, there's aminister Wasim in Camden, new
Jersey, who has a nice temple,has a Muhammad University school
and a nice physical building inCamden.
So there are various believersaround the country.
Minister Muhammad, ericMuhammad, has the temple meeting
in Atlanta.

(54:02):
There are various ministers andbelievers like that around the
country who are doing their bestto hold on to what Messenger
Muhammad gave us and what Godgave to him.
But to the extent of how he didit when he was amongst us, we
are not seeing that.
We're not even seeing that inthe final call they say they
rebuilt the nation, but templenumber two, a final call

(54:26):
building and a restaurant thathas not been open in 15 years,
that's not rebuilding the nationthat has not been open in 15
years.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
That's not rebuilding the nation.
It's a reasonable attempt, butthat's not rebuilding the nation
.
Now, do you think, ministerMessenger, do you think the
messenger was able to do what hedid because of the time, the
social climate at the timeversus the social climate
nowadays?

Speaker 2 (54:56):
Brother, my belief is that the messenger and the
nation of Islam set the socialclimate of the time.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
That's true.
I remember when I was a kid.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
Even though our people didn't accept it.
My family was not Muslim.
Growing up, my mothers and mygrandmothers and my aunts they
never left the house withoutcovering their hair with either
a hat or a scarf, so they setthat climate my belief, and this
is my belief, and you can callme a spooky Muslim if you want,

(55:31):
but my belief is the messengerwas successful like he was
because he was a divine man andit was divinely written that he
would make a success with apeople who had never had any
success before.
We were discarded on the trashheap, much like the master
builder Hiram Abiff, buried inthe north corner in a shallow

(55:54):
grave, dead, with the only signof life, a little small acacia
plant popping up from our gravesite, and the man with the
lion's paw grip reached intothat grave and said you know not
going to do nothing with thesepeople, I'll make something of
these people and I believe webelieve, believers believe that

(56:16):
the messenger was so successfulbecause it is the fulfillment of
divine scripture that he wouldtake a people who were nothing
and make the world say God, whata beautiful thing he created.
And they came from around theworld to marvel at what
messenger Muhammad did with us,and no man since then has been

(56:36):
able to come close toduplicating it.
That's a believer's belief.
What proof do I have of this?
The Holy Quran doesn't call mea prover and a knower.
The Holy Quran calls usbelievers, so I'll answer it
like that.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
All right.
Now I just want to go to one ofthe comments.
I just want to see how youwould answer this comment.
Al Islam says the brothers inthe Nation of Islam are not real
Muslims.
They are plagiarized Muslims.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Plagiarized Muslims.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Yeah, that's what the comment said.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
I mean, you know, opinions are like body parts,
everybody has them Right.
I will say this I'm not surewhat a plagiarized Muslim is,
but I have applied what I'velearned from Messenger Muhammad
to people all over the earth.
When they respect us, werespect them, and people from

(57:40):
all over the earth visitedMuhammad's temple when Messenger
Muhammad was amongst us.
And when people say, are you aMuslim?
I say yes.
I don't just say I'm a Muslim,I say I'm a follower of the
honorable Elijah Muhammad,messenger of Allah.
I have not, in my 40 years,almost 40 years of being a
Muslim, not once have I had oneMuslim from around the planet

(58:02):
say that I'm a plagiarizedMuslim.
All I hear from them is allpraises due to Allah.
And many of them say oh, youfollow Elijah Muhammad.
Elijah Muhammad, yes, theHonorable Elijah Muhammad.
All praise is due.

(58:23):
That's the response I get.
Most of the people who say whatthat quote said are Muslims who
were born here in America,former washed out or children of
washed out, former members ofthe nation of Islam.
I've never gotten that kind ofdisrespect from Muslims around
the planet, and neither didmessenger Muhammad.

(58:44):
He's opened up a whole worldfor us and made friendship for
us all over the planet.
A Muslim is a brother of a usand made friendship for us all
over the planet.
A muslim is the, a brother of amuslim, and a real muslim.
The muslim message teaches uswould never speak ill of another
muslim, especially in front ofdisbelievers like that.

(59:05):
So I'm not sure what you meanby plagiarized, but our god
brought supreme wisdom.
Nobody that I know of broughtanything before that.
So who was he copying?
Islam has always existed.
How are we copying it?

Speaker 1 (59:21):
On that note, thank you for coming out, brother.
I'm glad to have you.
Hopefully you'll come backagain and you know that's pretty
much it.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Any closing thoughts or you want to give the people
your social medias to find youor anything like that, you can
channel of Muhammad's Templenumber 15, minister Eric

(59:52):
Muhammad and Muhammad's Templeof Islam 15 on Facebook, and I
wanted to thank you, brother,for inviting me out.
As I said, I really mean thatyou are doing a phenomenal thing
.
The amount of information thatyou're bringing to people in
this time of disinformation isso critical, and I believe these

(01:00:15):
are dialogues that have to takeplace and are taking place and
will continue to take place, andI'm just very honored to
participate in it, very honoredthat you would have me, and I
appreciate the respect you'veshown myself and the respect
that you've showed Minister EricMuhammad and the other
believers from Muhammad's Templeno 15.
Respect that you've showedminister Eric Muhammad and the
other believers from Muhammad'stemple number 15.
And I just say, uh, whateveryou need from us, brother, we

(01:00:36):
are here and we'll, we'll do it.
I definitely want to promote NYPtalk show.
I don't want to promote mypersonal social media, that's
all.
I have a personal ones, buthopefully we will do this again
and continue to do this on aregular basis.
I've enjoyed it.
The time went Indeed, indeedPeace to everybody in.
And continue to do this on aregular basis.
I've enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
The time went like that Indeed Peace to everybody
in the chat.
Hopefully we have a podcast inthree minutes eight o'clock.
What's wrong with black people?
That's the name of the podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
I love it.
Peace to everybody Peace.

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