September 17, 2025 • 49 mins
Kwame Touré's revolutionary wisdom comes alive through seven powerful quotes that challenge us to reconsider our relationship with land, identity, and liberation. Join Emoli and host Ron Brown as they unpack the profound legacy of this Pan-Africanist thinker in a conversation that weaves together history, philosophy, and practical strategies for African unity.
The discussion begins with Touré's reflections on the devastating impact of denying freed slaves their promised "40 acres and a mule" – perhaps the most far-reaching betrayal in African American history. This broken promise didn't just withhold property; it fundamentally altered the psychological landscape for generations. Through Touré's observations organizing in the American South, we see how land ownership directly affects confidence, political courage, and willingness to stand for one's rights.
When exploring the tension between imported ideologies and African traditions through the powerful declaration that "Marx is not our ancestor," the conversation shifts to how revolutionary principles can harmonize with spiritual values rather than creating unnecessary divisions. Emoli shares personal insights on bridging these philosophical worlds while honoring African cultural foundations.
The discussion takes an especially fascinating turn when examining Touré's interaction with Ho Chi Minh, who asked when African Americans would repatriate to Africa. This moment reveals how global revolutionary leaders recognized African nationalism as the logical foundation for worldwide African liberation. The parallel with Chinese communities establishing Chinatowns while maintaining connection to China offers a model for how Africans can organize globally while recognizing their true ancestral base.
Whether you're deeply familiar with Pan-African thought or just beginning to explore these ideas, this episode provides accessible entry points to understanding how land, identity, and liberation remain interconnected challenges for African people worldwide. Listen now to discover how Kwame Touré's revolutionary wisdom remains strikingly relevant for today's liberation movements.
NYPTALKSHOW EP.1 HOSTED BY RON BROWNLMT & MIKEY FEVER
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
what's going on, everybody out.
There is ron brown, lmt, thepeople's fitness professional,
aka soul brother number one,reporting for duty, and we have
the brother magnetic alarm inthe building.
Uh, we have peace, great.
We have emoli in the buildingpan Peace, great.
We have Emoli in the buildingPan-Africanist.
And we're going to build onKwame Touré.
(00:32):
If I mispronounce something,please fix it.
Help me fix that.
Seven quotes from Kwame Touréby Emoli.
So the first thing, first thingsfirst.
Man, when you come in the chatlike comment share, subscribe
(00:52):
first off.
We're also pushing the superchats pretty hard right now.
We're trying to continuouslybuild this podcast, this
platform, and take it to anotherlevel.
Actually, you know, we have onestudio, in-studio podcast.
We're trying to do morein-studio podcasts.
(01:14):
We're trying to go around todifferent groups and film their
culture and things like that aswell.
So, support the brand.
It's a media brand, it's amedia brand.
The podcast is just the motherof it, right, and then, and it
branches out into other things.
So support the brand.
Super chat, super chat.
Let's go into the quotes rightnow.
(01:35):
Seven quotes from Kwame Torre.
All right, uh, first off, thefirst one.
We shouldn't lightly dismiss 40acres and a mule either, kwame
Nkrumah, is that the right way?
Nkrumah, nkrumah, right, yeah,kwame Nkrumah would tell me.
(01:57):
All libertarians began withland working in the Delta.
We began to see clearly how thewithholding of these 40 acres
had been no trivial blow, allright.
In fact, almost exactly 100years later, the lasting,
(02:19):
visible, painful consequences ofthat betrayal were still
undeniable, sketched in ourpeople's condition.
Of the many, many betrayals anddisappointments African had
suffered at the hands of theRepublic, I began to see how
(02:40):
Congress failed to make good onits promise.
Of those 40 acres to thefreedmen was arguably the most
far-reaching and injurious.
No doubt, no doubt about it.
So that was the first quote,that was the first one.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Should I enter now?
Yes, sir, okay, how I see myinterpretation is that Kwame was
referring to organizingAfricans in the southern, in the
Delta for civil rights, in thecivil rights and human rights
(03:25):
movement in in in the UnitedStates for voting rights, for,
for to organize politically andindependent political
organization, and that when hewas organizing Africans there
that there was a differencebetween the attitude of those
(03:46):
Africans who were uh land ownersversus those who were tenants
on uh, uh white people's land.
And he was saying that thosewho had their own, who owned the
land, they were more confident,they were more enthusiastic
(04:12):
about independent politicalorganization standing up for
their rights and interactingwith SNCC organizers.
They were easier to organizethan those who were living on
white people's land because theywere more timid, they were more
(04:34):
worried about what thelandowners would do if they
tried to start attendingmeetings to organize for voting
rights, for other rights.
And so I think that landownership issue is very, very
important and Kwame was alludingto the 40 acres and the mule
(04:59):
and how land ownership affectsthe behavior and attitudes of
people you know.
And so how I understand thatparticular section is that the
denial of that 40 acres and amule to the Africans,
particularly many Africans, whoeven fought in the military of
(05:27):
the Union Army, you know,against the Southern Confederacy
not giving those people land.
You know, all those Africans.
You know, because thoseAfricans helped the Union Army
to win the war.
They were losing the war, andso I mean the civil war in the
States.
They were losing the war, andso when the Africans were
(05:52):
allowed to enlist in the Unionmilitary, within nine months
they were able to win the war.
And so they promised thoseAfricans, you know, that we were
going to be able to have 40acres and a mule with the
Freedmen's Bureau.
And so those Africans, the landthat was supposed to be
(06:14):
allocated to Africans was landthat was previously held by
Southern slave owners, and sothat land was supposed to be
reallocated for the freedmen.
And so when Lincoln wasassassinated and Andrew Jackson
(06:35):
took over, instead of allowingfor those Africans to receive
that land and have a base, aland base, where they would own
the land and be able tocultivate the land and
independently facilitate thatland and to some extent it would
(06:56):
still be under America, butthey would still be landowners
and have large pockets of landthat they own.
And so with that situation thatwould have empowered Africans
to some extent.
And so by changing, with AndrewJackson changing and then
(07:17):
handing that land back over tothe white slave owners instead
of giving the land to thoseAfricans, kwame Ture is saying
that's a great betrayal.
It's the betrayal of thoseAfricans, you know, efforts in
enabling the Union Army to winthat war against the Confederacy
(07:40):
, and then following that withthe Ku Klux Klan, with terrorism
against those Africans.
And so I think that to me, byexamining Kwame's statement, we
could also look at the Africanpopulation in America in terms
of land ownership, because we'renot a population who have real
(08:05):
ownership over that land, andit's also affecting the attitude
of Africans there, you know,say, vis-a-vis other populations
of Africans, like in Jamaica orin, like you know, haiti, or in
Africa itself.
You know, our population isprimarily not landowners, our
(08:29):
population is primarily notlandowners, and so that reality
affects our attitudes about ournationalism, about our
confidence to develop economicinfrastructure for our community
to employ our own people, youknow, and for our political
representation to employ our ownpeople, you know, and to for
our political representation torepresent our interests in
earnest.
So that that's how I look atthat quote by Kwame Ture that
(08:54):
certainly, as Africans, we haveto have control over the land,
and having control over the landwill give us the confidence
Amir Karkabraw used to say whatland, what soil are you?
You know.
So there's an ashes to ashes.
We're part of the soil.
That's our culture, you know.
(09:16):
The soil is our culture and soour relationship to it, you know
, affects us greatly.
And so certainly you know, ifwe're not controlling land, then
that's going to affect us inevery aspect.
You know of behavior, and soyou know, to me that means that
(09:38):
we have to fight for land.
You know, like I said in theprevious podcast, that you know
we shouldn't be building castlesin the sky instead of fighting
for land, and I think that,because we're used to not having
land ownership, you knowparticularly the African
population and the snakes,sidetracked and misguided and
(10:11):
shooting in the wrong directionwhen it comes to our struggle,
and it also helps us to bethinking about nationalism in
ways where we're notconcentrating on a land base.
Okay, okay on a land base.
Okay, okay, yeah, we're able tobe directed towards types of
nationalism where there's notactually a land base, a tangible
(10:33):
land base involved, or a landthat we're controlling that we
can set up a government or somekind of political administration
on, you know, which is, youknow, putting us in so many
different directions.
You know, which is putting us inso many different directions.
You know, and I think our enemyis clear, that we don't have
that clarity regarding landownership and control, and so
(10:56):
we're getting, you know,misdirected in terms of the type
of nationalism.
We're getting this types ofreligious nationalism and all
kind of nationalism andidentities, because identity,
national, our national identitywill come from our land base.
You know, if we're Ghanaian,then we know that this is the
(11:20):
land of Ghana and this is theterritory we're based in, being
a Ghanaian on, you know, or aHaitian.
But we're getting identitiesfrom our enemy that are not
based on any land base and wehave so much fervor with these
identities because of mentalslavery.
But if we're able to focus onthe land, then now our
(11:45):
nationalism becomes very clear,like it is for other people
throughout the world.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Okay, now when you speak on land right and what do
you suggest?
Now, I'm assuming you'resuggesting repatriation, right,
right?
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Yes, yeah, I'm suggesting repatriation, like
African nationalism.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
OK, so let's say, if I wanted to buy land in Ghana,
right, the first thing I have todo would I have to get a visa
first off.
Right?
What would be the process?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Well, what the process would be.
You'd have to get a visa, yes,to come to Ghana, and I would
say do your due diligence.
But, as african, you can getaccess to land in ghana.
You can get access to land inghana.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
In other parts of africa, you can get access to
the land because I'm african, orjust because you have you, you
might have the finances,financial capabilities to do so.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I would say the financial capabilities to do so.
And also, because you're anAfrican, you know there's ways
for Africans to return to Africaand be able to get citizenship
in Africa.
You know, if you're serious tobe able to get citizenship in
Africa, people are returning toSierra Leone, people are
(13:15):
returning to Burkina Faso,people are returning to
Guinea-Bissau, nigeria, ghana.
People are returning home.
You know significant numbers ofpeople are returning home and
it's going to become more.
Okay, so it's certainly goingto become more.
As Africa becomes moreindependent and unified, our
(13:38):
people are going to come home.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
I think so.
I can see that, because overhere, I don't know, it's not
looking too good.
But when it comes to dualcitizenship, you know what would
be the process for that.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Well, you have to apply for dual citizenship.
There's people that you couldbe directed to help educate
Africans about that process and,as we go forward, if you're
interested or people areinterested, they can be directed
to such people.
Gotcha, all right.
So we're interested or peopleare interested, they can be
direct to such people.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Gotcha All right, so we're going to move on to the
second quote.
So the second quote.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
But the land issue, you know.
Okay, well, we can go to thesecond quote.
The land issue is veryimportant.
That land issue is veryimportant, but let's go forward.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Okay, so the chief was a western, educated man, yet
strongly invested in acontradictional belief in
practice and with impeccablenationalist credentials in
struggle.
Uh, it is he who, after somedifferences with a European
(14:56):
expert, is said to haveexploited in, explode, exploited
, no, exploded, exploded incabinet.
Mr President, must I remind youthat, after all is said and
done, karl Marx is not ourancestor.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Can you type the page number?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
so the listeners can also, you know, possibly look on
with us.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Page 629.
Page 629.
So this is from a book.
If you explain the book, sevenquotes from Kwame Ture.
That's the name of the book.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
No, no, that's just what we entitled this.
The book is Ready for theRevolution, right?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yes, the book is Ready for the Revolution.
By Kwame Ture, it's anautobiography.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Ready for the Revolution is the book and the
page we just read.
The first quote was 288.
The second one was 629.
So if you want to expound onthat, you can.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
OK, we said Karl Marx is not our ancestor.
I think during that period oftime, there were a lot of
(16:33):
Africans in Ghana who weresubscribing to Marxism, you know
, ideologically, to direct ustowards socialism.
And so, um, during that period,there was an ideological
struggle, not just anideological struggle, but a
philosophical struggle as wellthat was taking place and, um,
you know the this chief, um, hewas, um, someone who was
(16:55):
well-educated in the Westerneducational system, his name was
Nanakobana Nketiah IV and hewas the paramount chief of
Segundi Takradi, segundi Takradi.
And so he was arguing incabinet that's in the, not in
(17:22):
cabinet.
He was arguing I'm sorry, goahead, he was arguing because it
was in a formal, he was in aformal government setting, in
cabinet, yeah, it was in cabinet.
(17:43):
He was arguing in cabinet thatMarx wasn't our ancestor.
So, evidently, somebody who wasa European was quoting Marx in
order to try to make a point tohim, and he came out and he said
you know, marx wasn't, is notour ancestor.
(18:05):
And so how I'm interpreting itis because, you know, one of the
things that persists in ourenvironments as Africans is an
ancestral struggle.
You get me when we have foreignpeople, you know Europeans, who
(18:26):
are imposing their ancestry onus, just like Trump is putting
the names of Pickett and Hoodand Lee on military forts in
America.
Currently, right, these areEuropean ancestors, right.
(18:48):
And so there's the ancestralstruggle.
And so when we look ateducation in universities, then
(19:20):
you have Socrates and Plato andAristotle and Nietzsche and
Schopenhauer and Beckley andMarx that are being taught to
our, you know, students, africanstudents in philosophy.
If you go into religious, youknow arena, you're having peter
and paul, and you know all ofthese people, these uh, uh, uh,
that are being also, you know,imposed on our people, you know,
as and as ancestors.
But a lot of these people thatwe're introduced to all the time
, even our children are, youknow, exposed to Thor, you know,
(19:42):
and a white ISIS, you know, andall kinds of pagan ancestors in
the cartoons.
And so if you look criticallyat our society, then foreign
ancestors, you know, which is apart of foreign culture, is
(20:05):
imposed onto us, you know,making us extensions of them,
while our ancestry is beingvilified, particularly, you know
, our ancestry is vilified inAmerica and our ancestry is
being vilified particularly, youknow our ancestry is vilified
in America and our ancestry isalso vilified even in Africa,
and so our ancestry must berespected.
(20:29):
And then we talk aboutphilosophy and ideology.
We should be looking to our ownexperience, our own culture and
experience.
So ancestry is something thatis paramount in our culture.
That's why libation is pouredin order to honor ancestors and,
furthermore, we are actuallyphysically, you know, our
(20:50):
ancestry.
That's why the DNA can be usedto trace ancestry, because we're
physically part of our ancestryand our DNA has memory.
That's why we look like ourancestry and we dance like our
ancestry.
You know he's saying that.
(22:06):
No, you know we, you can'tbring you know without us
looking at our own materialconditions and for our interests
for our interests, you know,not the interest, necessarily of
European workers.
And so I think that Kwame Tureis putting this in there to make
that point raw and clear, thatyou know this African chief in
cabinet.
This is what he said.
When all is said and done, marxis not our ancestor, and so
(22:28):
when we're looking at Marx,there's things that we can
accept and things that we maynot want to accept.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Can you give some examples, accept and things that
we may not want to?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
accept from life.
Can you give some examples?
Well, kwame Turei used toalways talk about the role of
religion in revolution.
He said that when he was in theSouth organizing, the only
place they could have meetingswere in churches.
And he said that an old womanwould say if God ain't in this
movement, it ain't going nowhere.
And so, you know, looking at,looking at that situation, you
(23:01):
know, marxism is philosophicalmaterialism.
According to Marxism, leninismand the sole reality of matter
necessarily is atheistic or isatheism.
And so if we're organizingamong Africans who have a strong
spiritual orientation, you know, then it doesn't, it's not,
(23:27):
it's not, it's not realistic atthis time to try to encourage
our people to be atheists aspart of our organizing process
and a part as a part of ourorganizing strategy, you know.
And so therefore, you know weshould have a a type of um of of
(23:51):
strategy or our type of tacticsto approach our people who are
religious.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I remember you told me something back in the day
family we were talking aboutreligion and you said in
dialectical materialism it meansopposites and how they work
together.
You said so if religion can beused for negative things, if it
can be the opium of the masses,then it can be used for
(24:19):
liberation as well.
And that's dialecticalmaterialism.
It can be used for good, it canbe used for bad.
It's about how the person isusing it, how the person is
thinking.
I never forgot that.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Now I think his screen is frozen.
He's going to go out and comeback.
I would like for you to expounda little bit more on land
acquisition.
As one of the guards say, theknowledge was talking about that
Monday.
So you know, do you have anyidea on how you want to go about
(24:57):
doing that?
Is your plan to move to Africa?
Is that in your plans?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
No, I mean, I just honestly think we need to be
functional family so that we'reable to move across the planet
and not just be stuck somewhere.
You know, I want to be able togo to the Caribbean.
If I need to go to theCaribbean, I want to be able to
go to India, just all the partswhere our people are at.
You know, when we need to go toteach, to trade, you know, as
(25:29):
Mo, as as more, as more, as thetravelers, and wherever we
travel, we take knowledge withus, we take culture with us.
You know, we take goods andservices with us and everybody's
always happy that we came likeblack Santa Claus.
You know, and that's what Ithink has always been one of our
, um, our best qualities youknow that we could take goods
(25:49):
and services, people that areneeded over here, right, and go
and take these people from overhere and bring them over to
where they're needed at mostneeded, most appreciated.
You know, and I think that'slike I said, I think that's our
role within this you know thisblack world culture, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
And then, when we stop doing it, the British start
doing it.
You know this black worldculture, you know For sure.
And then, when we stopped doingit, the British started doing
it.
You know, when they capturedour train routes, our shipping
routes, somebody else starteddoing it.
That was really what was thebeginning of white supremacy,
when they captured our trainroutes and they cut off our
ability for our cities tointeract with each other and
(26:31):
they assumed that role.
You know, right, that's what Isee, because it needs to be a
functional Pan-Africanism familyCan't be where we just show up.
We need to find the people thatAfrica needs and then direct
them to the different countrieswhere they're needed at.
You see, I think that'd work alot better.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
All right, so now I want to go into the third quote.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Can I land on the second quote?
Yes, what I'm saying is farmingused to even encourage us to
read the Bible, read the Quranand read the books that our
people are into, so we can lookat the principles in those
religions and try to harmonizethose principles with the
(27:24):
revolutionary principles.
I'll give a quick example that,like the golden rule, do unto
others as you have, others dounto you, and that golden rule
is consistent with humanism as aprinciple which says treat each
person as an end in and ofthemselves, not merely as a
(27:46):
means to an end.
You know, okay, so that's aideological principle With a
philosophical principle wherewe're looking at each man as
primarily a spiritual being,originally endowed with a
certain inward dignity,integrity and value, which
(28:11):
implies duties of a socialistkind.
In Christianity and Islamthey're looking at man as being
primarily a spiritual being, butthey're saying this is the
creator spirit in us.
In Islam it says that Allahcreated mankind of a sounding
clay and black mud, fashionedinto shape and then put up his
(28:32):
spirit in man to make mancomplete.
And in Christianity it saidthat man is made of dust and
then God put his Holy Spirit, orhis living breath, in man.
You know, we can agree, hasdignity, has integrity, has
value, and that every singleperson should be respected, you
(28:54):
know, along such lines.
So so there's there's ways thatwe can look at people as
revolutionaries.
We can look at people'sspiritual orientation and find
commonality in order to organizeour people and liberate our
society.
So I think he's talking aboutthe approach, how we're looking
(29:14):
at each other, and then also howwe're looking at organizing our
people and relating to ourpeople and not have an
antagonistic type of developmentbetween those of us who are
maybe traditionalists, muslims,christians or what have you and
not have us centripping, butrather able to harmonize
(29:36):
ourselves for our commoninterests.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Gotcha Makes a lot of sense.
All right.
Now you want to go to the thirdone?
Let's go, All right.
I parted company withnationalists on Dr King.
It seemed clear to me thatnonviolent mass action was an
(30:02):
effective tactic.
I supported any strategy thatcould move the southern masses
of our people to confrontAmerican apartheid Page 111.
Ok.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
I think that Kwame, on that quote on King, he's
doing the same thing that I did,you know, when I was younger,
you know, I would talk, quoteMalcolm X or Mawali, and, you
know, speak against Dr King.
And so me and Chris, one timewe were walking with Rafiki, and
(30:49):
Rafiki was like, nah, weshouldn't take that approach of
you know, saying we'resupporting Malcolm X but we're
condemning Martin Luther King.
We should look at the positivesand negatives in both and then
try to develop out of andadvance the struggle that they
(31:12):
both waged.
You understand.
And so when, uh, and so he sokwame ture, he used to always
talk about the things that drking contributed to our struggle
.
You know, he talked about howKing was a great mobilizer while
Malcolm X was a great organizer.
(31:32):
And he talked about how Dr Kingtaught us to face the enemy
without fear.
You know, confront the enemy,Go to.
He said that it was.
It was a gift, you know, and anability of Dr King to be able
to get the people to stand up tothe white men in America they
(31:54):
were afraid, you know, timid,you know they have been
terrorized by the Ku Klux Klanand the police and for Africans
to get in the street and standright face to face with the
police in America was a verygreat accomplishment and stand
up for our actual rights, ourright to vote, our right to to
(32:18):
ride on the front of the bus,you know very.
And then later, the poorpeople's campaign.
And so King was, you know, agifted orator and he was, he was
, he was a person that had ahigh integrity, you know, he was
consistent in what he said.
You know, if he said that he'sgoing to be nonviolent and
(32:42):
that's his principle, then helater told America that, you
know, they need to be nonviolent.
In Vietnam, you know, and aroundthe world, you know, in their
war machine against poor peopleall over the world, you know,
and called America said, and Ialso agree that with nonviolence
(33:02):
as a principle, rathernonviolence is a tactic, because
King was being protected byarmed guards.
So that showed that the peoplein his organization even didn't
(33:23):
agree with nonviolence as aprinciple.
But what he did bring to to ourstruggle was very important and
invaluable.
And Dr King was like the moralvoice.
And so you see what happened.
When they assassinated King,what did the people do?
What did Africans do?
(33:45):
All over America?
They rose up.
You know and let the enemy knowthat.
You know we're not just goingto just take this lying down
with the assassination of King.
You know so.
They destroyed properties thatdidn't belong to us.
You know and let them know thatnow we're going to destroy,
(34:05):
we're going to do something thatis going to know negatively
affect you, if you know, fortaking out, you know, somebody
who is a great, you know,african, like dr king, and a lot
of what dr king stood for andwhat he advocated for and what
he, you know, demonstrated, whatwas, um, uh, not publicized by
(34:29):
the capitalist media.
I think that's very important.
I think now on social media,some of the presentations and
speeches and interviews Dr Kingpresented are now being shown on
(34:51):
YouTube and those types ofthings.
But, like Kwame said, why wecan't wait Dr King's book, why
we Can't Wait?
Dr King came to Ghana and he metwith Kwame.
He took pictures with Kwame andKrumah and he said that he
supported Ghanaian independenceagainst colonial rule, he was
(35:15):
anti-colonialist, and then heeven said that what he learned
and what he saw in Ghana, youknow, inspired him to fight for
the rights of Africans.
You know, stronger in America,that was in 57, he came to Ghana
for independence, forindependence ceremony, you see,
(35:38):
and they were asking him in aninterview, you know, how do you
think about Ghana?
He said well, we wish we couldhave you know what the Ghanaians
are having for the Africans inAmerica.
That was my impression.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
When I saw his connection to Kwame Nkrumah I
thought he was more.
He took more of an impressionfrom Kwame Nkrumah than he did
from the guy from India.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
What's his name?
Mahatma.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Gandhi, mahatma Gandhi.
I saw our struggle moreparallel with the Convention
People's Party than MahatmaGandhi's struggle.
I saw it much closer and theywere both alphas as well, he and
Nkrumah.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Nkrumah was a sigma.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
He was a sigma.
Okay, yes, Okay.
So I was close.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Now you want to go into the third.
No, this is not the hold on.
How many did we get?
Speaker 3 (36:39):
One quick point to make is that.
So that demonstrates thatMartin Luther King was looking
at the tactics that he was usingin America and Africa.
You know, exactly tactically.
But on the colonial question,martin Luther King was clear
that Africans have the right tocontrol our land, africans have
(37:01):
the right to independentgovernment, africans should be
sovereign, have the right tonational self-determination and
sovereignty, and so therefore,you know, king was very clear on
those aspects, but he was justlooking at the actual conditions
of Africans in America and said, ok, in order to get these
(37:23):
Africans to stand up and moveforward, these are, this is this
is what we need to do to get usfrom step A to step B.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
These are the kind of tactics you know they both very
successfully used boycotts andstrikes, what we call positive
action to effect change.
You know that's what one thingthey had in common.
They used it masterfully andthey had a string of things they
were doing, not just one thingone, no, it was like A, b, c, d,
e, f, g, yeah, and also younotice that Martin Luther King
(38:00):
never condemned black power andalso the SNCC organizers who
were, you know, working with him.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
He was close with some of those youth, like Kwame
Ture.
So Martin Luther King wassomeone who maybe he was going
to be nonviolent.
But deacons for defense werethere, sncc were there and, like
Kwame said, a lot of them werearmed.
So, martin Luther King, he saidfor him, martin Luther King,
this is what he's going to benonviolent.
(38:30):
But he was working with otherpeople who were using various
type of tactics and methods andso he was looking at what he was
doing tactically, you know,tactically and strategically,
and I think that he was tryingto apply certain methods to the
conditions in America, that hewas trying to apply certain
methods to the conditions inAmerica, you know.
(38:50):
So the mistakes Martin LutherKing made, like taking
nonviolence to the level of aprinciple, we can correct those
mistakes and look at thosemethods as tactical methods
rather than principle, you know,than a principle that, like he,
(39:11):
like how he looked at it.
That's something we can learnfrom that and then also be able
to be more dialectical in thekind of tactics that we, you
know, like looking at how to beable to work with other African
groups.
You know we can be moreobjective in our approach to
(39:32):
struggle and looking at whatworks.
You know what type of things iseffective in being able to
advance our interests forward asAfricans.
You know what works and so whatDr King was doing, it was
effective and it was working.
(40:12):
No-transcript.
Their modus operandi is toterrorize Africans.
So when you get in the streetsand you start organizing on the
streets, you know to confrontthem.
That's not no small thing.
Your life is on the line.
Your life is on the line.
Your life is on the line.
And so you know for Dr King toget all those Africans
(40:35):
Christians, you know, africansin the South who have been
terrorized by Ku Klux Klan andwhite police, you know all those
years, all these, you know allthis period of time to get them,
to confront them on theirrights was a very great
accomplishment.
You know who else was going toget the Africans to come to the
(40:56):
streets.
You know to confront the enemy.
And so, as the Africans werecoming to the streets to
confront the enemy, then thatcreated a bigger space for
revolutionaries who were armed,like the Deacons for Defense and
SNCC organizers and others tobe able to come with their guns,
you know, and not, you know, besingled out and targeted so
(41:19):
easily.
Right, right, you understandwhat I'm saying.
And so, like Mao Zedong wrotein his book on guerrilla warfare
Mao Zedong was saying that weneed to revolutionaries need to
swim in a big ocean rather thanin a small pond Say that
revolutionaries need to swim ina big ocean rather than in a
small pond.
(41:39):
And so, by King being able toget the masses to come to the
streets, now that is making theocean bigger for those in SNCC,
those in deacons for defense andother formations to become more
active, and it makes it moredifficult for the enemy to
target some of us that theywould be able to target more
(42:00):
easily, like how they, howthey're naming some africans as
black identity extremists.
You know, if all our people, ifour men, the masses of our
people, are in the streetsconfronting the enemy, then it's
more difficult to target you,those who are in the
revolutionary intelligentsia, orthose who are, you know, very
(42:21):
active organizers, very vibrantand active organizers.
So that condition is better forus to make change.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yes, sir, good.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Hold on one second.
So now let's go into the nextone.
The next one is then he.
Then he suddenly leaned closerand asked when are you African
Americans going to repatriate toAfrica?
I said, well, sir, we are notthere yet, but that remains the
(43:00):
ultimate goal, but it willsurely be in the future, as the
contradictions continue todevelop.
Page 601.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
That was the conversation he was having with
Mao right.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
No with Ho Chi Minh.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Okay, Ho Chi Minh, pardon me.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah, yeah.
So that quote, I think thatit's clear where our nationalism
?
Because Ho Chi Minh used tosail on ships back and forth to
New York and he heard Garveyspeak and was very impressed
with Marcus Garvey, and so hewas so impressed that it said
(43:45):
that he made a financialcontribution to the UNIA, the
Universal Negro ImprovementAssociation that African
communities lead.
And also Ho Chi Minh wrotearticles condemning the lynching
of Africans in America.
He wrote articles I've read thearticles in a book that Ho Chi
(44:08):
Minh wrote against lynching ofAfricans.
And so Ho Chi Minh was somebodywho had heard Garvey's line
Africa for Africans, those athome and those abroad.
And when Kwame Ture went toVietnam, some of the cadres that
he met were Marxist, likeMarxist, leninist oriented.
(44:28):
And we have that, like Kenyattawas talking about, in our
movement.
We have those who are morenationalist oriented.
We have those who are morenationalist oriented.
We have those who are Marxist.
You know various.
You know factions that arelooking at socialism as an
objective.
You know for our people, thatis, a better economic system for
(44:50):
our people.
And so with this he said thoseare some, but, but the question
is what type of ideologicalorientation that they have to
guide us to achieve socialism.
And so Ho, ho Chi Minh, he hadbeen exposed to nationalism from
Garvey and others.
(45:10):
And so when Kwame went toVietnam and he met Ho, that he
would first those, those who,those other Vietnamese, they
were pushing a Marxist line.
But when he met Ho, ho Chi Minhwas like, well, when are you
Africans, when are youAfrican-Americans going back to
Africa?
And so he was like, wow, youknow, look at what the man Ho
(45:35):
Chi Minh, leading the Vietnamese, the Viet Cong, against
American imperialism anddefeating American imperialism,
a great, great hero like Ho ChiMinh.
And so for him to say what hesaid to Kwame Ture, it was very
(45:56):
profound and took him aback tohear Ho Chi Minh say such a
thing.
And so Kwame Ture was like, whenhe reflected on what Ho Chi
Minh was saying you're right,you know, that's the ultimate
goal.
You know Africa is the ultimategoal for African people, you
know.
And so for those of us who arein the United Snakes, you know
(46:20):
to look and say you know where'sour nationalism, which land is
ours, what soil are we?
You know we have all thesestruggles going on now, you know
, to a very high extent becauseof mental slavery and our
detachment from our land and thenatal alienation that was
(46:43):
infused into us in americaduring the genocide of chattel
enslavement, and so that's nowtrying to tie us to other lands
instead of our actual land,where we come from.
And so that nationalism isAfrican nationalism.
That's our nationalism, isAfrican nationalism, and so you
(47:07):
know, that is the viablenationalism for our people.
You know, and that doesn't meanwe can't own land in other
locations of the world and thatdoesn't mean we can't organize
ourselves in other locations inthe world.
But if you look at the Chinese,you have a model.
They have Chinatowns all overin the States, don't they?
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Right.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
For sure.
Yeah, so that doesn't mean thatChina is not the base for the
Chinese people in America, doesit?
Just because they haveChinatowns in America, that
doesn't mean China is no longertheir base for their nationalism
.
So if you look at Africans inAmerica, it's the same thing,
(47:48):
but only because of mentalslavery.
Chinese don't have mentalslavery.
That's why the governor, whenhe won the election in
Washington, state that wherewhere's the first place he went.
I think his name was Gary Locke, right.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
Yep, yep, gary Locke.
He became the governor.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Well, his screen is frozen again, but I want to end
right here.
I want to end right here andyou know, and come back and
build on this.
There's a lot of things that Iwant to build on with the
brother Emoli and yourself, Ithink.
(48:31):
Did he come back?
Speaker 2 (48:33):
yeah, he coming back yeah, cause this is an important
subject and it has to bepresented in it's proper
perspective.
Man, yeah, he's coming back.
Just a philosophy, you know,and it produces exact results.
And he has produced exact,precise results.
(49:00):
You know, he's not justsomebody who's just talking or
theorizing.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Indeed indeed.
So on that note, man, we'regoing to click out.
Thank you for all who were onthe chat.
Thank you, brother Magnetic,for coming on.
Really appreciate yourcontribution and we are out of
here.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Peace.
what's going on, everybody out.
There is ron brown, lmt, thepeople's fitness professional,
aka soul brother number one,reporting for duty, and we have
the brother magnetic alarm inthe building.
Uh, we have peace, great.
We have emoli in the buildingpan Peace, great.
We have Emoli in the buildingPan-Africanist.
And we're going to build onKwame Touré.
(00:32):
If I mispronounce something,please fix it.
Help me fix that.
Seven quotes from Kwame Touréby Emoli.
So the first thing, first thingsfirst.
Man, when you come in the chatlike comment share, subscribe
(00:52):
first off.
We're also pushing the superchats pretty hard right now.
We're trying to continuouslybuild this podcast, this
platform, and take it to anotherlevel.
Actually, you know, we have onestudio, in-studio podcast.
We're trying to do morein-studio podcasts.
(01:14):
We're trying to go around todifferent groups and film their
culture and things like that aswell.
So, support the brand.
It's a media brand, it's amedia brand.
The podcast is just the motherof it, right, and then, and it
branches out into other things.
So support the brand.
Super chat, super chat.
Let's go into the quotes rightnow.
(01:35):
Seven quotes from Kwame Torre.
All right, uh, first off, thefirst one.
We shouldn't lightly dismiss 40acres and a mule either, kwame
Nkrumah, is that the right way?
Nkrumah, nkrumah, right, yeah,kwame Nkrumah would tell me.
(01:57):
All libertarians began withland working in the Delta.
We began to see clearly how thewithholding of these 40 acres
had been no trivial blow, allright.
In fact, almost exactly 100years later, the lasting,
(02:19):
visible, painful consequences ofthat betrayal were still
undeniable, sketched in ourpeople's condition.
Of the many, many betrayals anddisappointments African had
suffered at the hands of theRepublic, I began to see how
(02:40):
Congress failed to make good onits promise.
Of those 40 acres to thefreedmen was arguably the most
far-reaching and injurious.
No doubt, no doubt about it.
So that was the first quote,that was the first one.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Should I enter now?
Yes, sir, okay, how I see myinterpretation is that Kwame was
referring to organizingAfricans in the southern, in the
Delta for civil rights, in thecivil rights and human rights
(03:25):
movement in in in the UnitedStates for voting rights, for,
for to organize politically andindependent political
organization, and that when hewas organizing Africans there
that there was a differencebetween the attitude of those
(03:46):
Africans who were uh land ownersversus those who were tenants
on uh, uh white people's land.
And he was saying that thosewho had their own, who owned the
land, they were more confident,they were more enthusiastic
(04:12):
about independent politicalorganization standing up for
their rights and interactingwith SNCC organizers.
They were easier to organizethan those who were living on
white people's land because theywere more timid, they were more
(04:34):
worried about what thelandowners would do if they
tried to start attendingmeetings to organize for voting
rights, for other rights.
And so I think that landownership issue is very, very
important and Kwame was alludingto the 40 acres and the mule
(04:59):
and how land ownership affectsthe behavior and attitudes of
people you know.
And so how I understand thatparticular section is that the
denial of that 40 acres and amule to the Africans,
particularly many Africans, whoeven fought in the military of
(05:27):
the Union Army, you know,against the Southern Confederacy
not giving those people land.
You know, all those Africans.
You know, because thoseAfricans helped the Union Army
to win the war.
They were losing the war, andso I mean the civil war in the
States.
They were losing the war, andso when the Africans were
(05:52):
allowed to enlist in the Unionmilitary, within nine months
they were able to win the war.
And so they promised thoseAfricans, you know, that we were
going to be able to have 40acres and a mule with the
Freedmen's Bureau.
And so those Africans, the landthat was supposed to be
(06:14):
allocated to Africans was landthat was previously held by
Southern slave owners, and sothat land was supposed to be
reallocated for the freedmen.
And so when Lincoln wasassassinated and Andrew Jackson
(06:35):
took over, instead of allowingfor those Africans to receive
that land and have a base, aland base, where they would own
the land and be able tocultivate the land and
independently facilitate thatland and to some extent it would
(06:56):
still be under America, butthey would still be landowners
and have large pockets of landthat they own.
And so with that situation thatwould have empowered Africans
to some extent.
And so by changing, with AndrewJackson changing and then
(07:17):
handing that land back over tothe white slave owners instead
of giving the land to thoseAfricans, kwame Ture is saying
that's a great betrayal.
It's the betrayal of thoseAfricans, you know, efforts in
enabling the Union Army to winthat war against the Confederacy
(07:40):
, and then following that withthe Ku Klux Klan, with terrorism
against those Africans.
And so I think that to me, byexamining Kwame's statement, we
could also look at the Africanpopulation in America in terms
of land ownership, because we'renot a population who have real
(08:05):
ownership over that land, andit's also affecting the attitude
of Africans there, you know,say, vis-a-vis other populations
of Africans, like in Jamaica orin, like you know, haiti, or in
Africa itself.
You know, our population isprimarily not landowners, our
(08:29):
population is primarily notlandowners, and so that reality
affects our attitudes about ournationalism, about our
confidence to develop economicinfrastructure for our community
to employ our own people, youknow, and for our political
representation to employ our ownpeople, you know, and to for
our political representation torepresent our interests in
earnest.
So that that's how I look atthat quote by Kwame Ture that
(08:54):
certainly, as Africans, we haveto have control over the land,
and having control over the landwill give us the confidence
Amir Karkabraw used to say whatland, what soil are you?
You know.
So there's an ashes to ashes.
We're part of the soil.
That's our culture, you know.
(09:16):
The soil is our culture and soour relationship to it, you know
, affects us greatly.
And so certainly you know, ifwe're not controlling land, then
that's going to affect us inevery aspect.
You know of behavior, and soyou know, to me that means that
(09:38):
we have to fight for land.
You know, like I said in theprevious podcast, that you know
we shouldn't be building castlesin the sky instead of fighting
for land, and I think that,because we're used to not having
land ownership, you knowparticularly the African
population and the snakes,sidetracked and misguided and
(10:11):
shooting in the wrong directionwhen it comes to our struggle,
and it also helps us to bethinking about nationalism in
ways where we're notconcentrating on a land base.
Okay, okay on a land base.
Okay, okay, yeah, we're able tobe directed towards types of
nationalism where there's notactually a land base, a tangible
(10:33):
land base involved, or a landthat we're controlling that we
can set up a government or somekind of political administration
on, you know, which is, youknow, putting us in so many
different directions.
You know, which is putting us inso many different directions.
You know, and I think our enemyis clear, that we don't have
that clarity regarding landownership and control, and so
(10:56):
we're getting, you know,misdirected in terms of the type
of nationalism.
We're getting this types ofreligious nationalism and all
kind of nationalism andidentities, because identity,
national, our national identitywill come from our land base.
You know, if we're Ghanaian,then we know that this is the
(11:20):
land of Ghana and this is theterritory we're based in, being
a Ghanaian on, you know, or aHaitian.
But we're getting identitiesfrom our enemy that are not
based on any land base and wehave so much fervor with these
identities because of mentalslavery.
But if we're able to focus onthe land, then now our
(11:45):
nationalism becomes very clear,like it is for other people
throughout the world.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Okay, now when you speak on land right and what do
you suggest?
Now, I'm assuming you'resuggesting repatriation, right,
right?
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Yes, yeah, I'm suggesting repatriation, like
African nationalism.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
OK, so let's say, if I wanted to buy land in Ghana,
right, the first thing I have todo would I have to get a visa
first off.
Right?
What would be the process?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Well, what the process would be.
You'd have to get a visa, yes,to come to Ghana, and I would
say do your due diligence.
But, as african, you can getaccess to land in ghana.
You can get access to land inghana.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
In other parts of africa, you can get access to
the land because I'm african, orjust because you have you, you
might have the finances,financial capabilities to do so.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I would say the financial capabilities to do so.
And also, because you're anAfrican, you know there's ways
for Africans to return to Africaand be able to get citizenship
in Africa.
You know, if you're serious tobe able to get citizenship in
Africa, people are returning toSierra Leone, people are
(13:15):
returning to Burkina Faso,people are returning to
Guinea-Bissau, nigeria, ghana.
People are returning home.
You know significant numbers ofpeople are returning home and
it's going to become more.
Okay, so it's certainly goingto become more.
As Africa becomes moreindependent and unified, our
(13:38):
people are going to come home.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
I think so.
I can see that, because overhere, I don't know, it's not
looking too good.
But when it comes to dualcitizenship, you know what would
be the process for that.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Well, you have to apply for dual citizenship.
There's people that you couldbe directed to help educate
Africans about that process and,as we go forward, if you're
interested or people areinterested, they can be directed
to such people.
Gotcha, all right.
So we're interested or peopleare interested, they can be
direct to such people.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Gotcha All right, so we're going to move on to the
second quote.
So the second quote.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
But the land issue, you know.
Okay, well, we can go to thesecond quote.
The land issue is veryimportant.
That land issue is veryimportant, but let's go forward.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Okay, so the chief was a western, educated man, yet
strongly invested in acontradictional belief in
practice and with impeccablenationalist credentials in
struggle.
Uh, it is he who, after somedifferences with a European
(14:56):
expert, is said to haveexploited in, explode, exploited
, no, exploded, exploded incabinet.
Mr President, must I remind youthat, after all is said and
done, karl Marx is not ourancestor.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Can you type the page number?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
so the listeners can also, you know, possibly look on
with us.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Page 629.
Page 629.
So this is from a book.
If you explain the book, sevenquotes from Kwame Ture.
That's the name of the book.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
No, no, that's just what we entitled this.
The book is Ready for theRevolution, right?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yes, the book is Ready for the Revolution.
By Kwame Ture, it's anautobiography.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Ready for the Revolution is the book and the
page we just read.
The first quote was 288.
The second one was 629.
So if you want to expound onthat, you can.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
OK, we said Karl Marx is not our ancestor.
I think during that period oftime, there were a lot of
(16:33):
Africans in Ghana who weresubscribing to Marxism, you know
, ideologically, to direct ustowards socialism.
And so, um, during that period,there was an ideological
struggle, not just anideological struggle, but a
philosophical struggle as wellthat was taking place and, um,
you know the this chief, um, hewas, um, someone who was
(16:55):
well-educated in the Westerneducational system, his name was
Nanakobana Nketiah IV and hewas the paramount chief of
Segundi Takradi, segundi Takradi.
And so he was arguing incabinet that's in the, not in
(17:22):
cabinet.
He was arguing I'm sorry, goahead, he was arguing because it
was in a formal, he was in aformal government setting, in
cabinet, yeah, it was in cabinet.
(17:43):
He was arguing in cabinet thatMarx wasn't our ancestor.
So, evidently, somebody who wasa European was quoting Marx in
order to try to make a point tohim, and he came out and he said
you know, marx wasn't, is notour ancestor.
(18:05):
And so how I'm interpreting itis because, you know, one of the
things that persists in ourenvironments as Africans is an
ancestral struggle.
You get me when we have foreignpeople, you know Europeans, who
(18:26):
are imposing their ancestry onus, just like Trump is putting
the names of Pickett and Hoodand Lee on military forts in
America.
Currently, right, these areEuropean ancestors, right.
(18:48):
And so there's the ancestralstruggle.
And so when we look ateducation in universities, then
(19:20):
you have Socrates and Plato andAristotle and Nietzsche and
Schopenhauer and Beckley andMarx that are being taught to
our, you know, students, africanstudents in philosophy.
If you go into religious, youknow arena, you're having peter
and paul, and you know all ofthese people, these uh, uh, uh,
that are being also, you know,imposed on our people, you know,
as and as ancestors.
But a lot of these people thatwe're introduced to all the time
, even our children are, youknow, exposed to Thor, you know,
(19:42):
and a white ISIS, you know, andall kinds of pagan ancestors in
the cartoons.
And so if you look criticallyat our society, then foreign
ancestors, you know, which is apart of foreign culture, is
(20:05):
imposed onto us, you know,making us extensions of them,
while our ancestry is beingvilified, particularly, you know
, our ancestry is vilified inAmerica and our ancestry is
being vilified particularly, youknow our ancestry is vilified
in America and our ancestry isalso vilified even in Africa,
and so our ancestry must berespected.
(20:29):
And then we talk aboutphilosophy and ideology.
We should be looking to our ownexperience, our own culture and
experience.
So ancestry is something thatis paramount in our culture.
That's why libation is pouredin order to honor ancestors and,
furthermore, we are actuallyphysically, you know, our
(20:50):
ancestry.
That's why the DNA can be usedto trace ancestry, because we're
physically part of our ancestryand our DNA has memory.
That's why we look like ourancestry and we dance like our
ancestry.
You know he's saying that.
(22:06):
No, you know we, you can'tbring you know without us
looking at our own materialconditions and for our interests
for our interests, you know,not the interest, necessarily of
European workers.
And so I think that Kwame Tureis putting this in there to make
that point raw and clear, thatyou know this African chief in
cabinet.
This is what he said.
When all is said and done, marxis not our ancestor, and so
(22:28):
when we're looking at Marx,there's things that we can
accept and things that we maynot want to accept.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Can you give some examples, accept and things that
we may not want to?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
accept from life.
Can you give some examples?
Well, kwame Turei used toalways talk about the role of
religion in revolution.
He said that when he was in theSouth organizing, the only
place they could have meetingswere in churches.
And he said that an old womanwould say if God ain't in this
movement, it ain't going nowhere.
And so, you know, looking at,looking at that situation, you
(23:01):
know, marxism is philosophicalmaterialism.
According to Marxism, leninismand the sole reality of matter
necessarily is atheistic or isatheism.
And so if we're organizingamong Africans who have a strong
spiritual orientation, you know, then it doesn't, it's not,
(23:27):
it's not, it's not realistic atthis time to try to encourage
our people to be atheists aspart of our organizing process
and a part as a part of ourorganizing strategy, you know.
And so therefore, you know weshould have a a type of um of of
(23:51):
strategy or our type of tacticsto approach our people who are
religious.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I remember you told me something back in the day
family we were talking aboutreligion and you said in
dialectical materialism it meansopposites and how they work
together.
You said so if religion can beused for negative things, if it
can be the opium of the masses,then it can be used for
(24:19):
liberation as well.
And that's dialecticalmaterialism.
It can be used for good, it canbe used for bad.
It's about how the person isusing it, how the person is
thinking.
I never forgot that.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Now I think his screen is frozen.
He's going to go out and comeback.
I would like for you to expounda little bit more on land
acquisition.
As one of the guards say, theknowledge was talking about that
Monday.
So you know, do you have anyidea on how you want to go about
(24:57):
doing that?
Is your plan to move to Africa?
Is that in your plans?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
No, I mean, I just honestly think we need to be
functional family so that we'reable to move across the planet
and not just be stuck somewhere.
You know, I want to be able togo to the Caribbean.
If I need to go to theCaribbean, I want to be able to
go to India, just all the partswhere our people are at.
You know, when we need to go toteach, to trade, you know, as
(25:29):
Mo, as as more, as more, as thetravelers, and wherever we
travel, we take knowledge withus, we take culture with us.
You know, we take goods andservices with us and everybody's
always happy that we came likeblack Santa Claus.
You know, and that's what Ithink has always been one of our
, um, our best qualities youknow that we could take goods
(25:49):
and services, people that areneeded over here, right, and go
and take these people from overhere and bring them over to
where they're needed at mostneeded, most appreciated.
You know, and I think that'slike I said, I think that's our
role within this you know thisblack world culture, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
And then, when we stop doing it, the British start
doing it.
You know this black worldculture, you know For sure.
And then, when we stopped doingit, the British started doing
it.
You know, when they capturedour train routes, our shipping
routes, somebody else starteddoing it.
That was really what was thebeginning of white supremacy,
when they captured our trainroutes and they cut off our
ability for our cities tointeract with each other and
(26:31):
they assumed that role.
You know, right, that's what Isee, because it needs to be a
functional Pan-Africanism familyCan't be where we just show up.
We need to find the people thatAfrica needs and then direct
them to the different countrieswhere they're needed at.
You see, I think that'd work alot better.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
All right, so now I want to go into the third quote.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Can I land on the second quote?
Yes, what I'm saying is farmingused to even encourage us to
read the Bible, read the Quranand read the books that our
people are into, so we can lookat the principles in those
religions and try to harmonizethose principles with the
(27:24):
revolutionary principles.
I'll give a quick example that,like the golden rule, do unto
others as you have, others dounto you, and that golden rule
is consistent with humanism as aprinciple which says treat each
person as an end in and ofthemselves, not merely as a
(27:46):
means to an end.
You know, okay, so that's aideological principle With a
philosophical principle wherewe're looking at each man as
primarily a spiritual being,originally endowed with a
certain inward dignity,integrity and value, which
(28:11):
implies duties of a socialistkind.
In Christianity and Islamthey're looking at man as being
primarily a spiritual being, butthey're saying this is the
creator spirit in us.
In Islam it says that Allahcreated mankind of a sounding
clay and black mud, fashionedinto shape and then put up his
(28:32):
spirit in man to make mancomplete.
And in Christianity it saidthat man is made of dust and
then God put his Holy Spirit, orhis living breath, in man.
You know, we can agree, hasdignity, has integrity, has
value, and that every singleperson should be respected, you
(28:54):
know, along such lines.
So so there's there's ways thatwe can look at people as
revolutionaries.
We can look at people'sspiritual orientation and find
commonality in order to organizeour people and liberate our
society.
So I think he's talking aboutthe approach, how we're looking
(29:14):
at each other, and then also howwe're looking at organizing our
people and relating to ourpeople and not have an
antagonistic type of developmentbetween those of us who are
maybe traditionalists, muslims,christians or what have you and
not have us centripping, butrather able to harmonize
(29:36):
ourselves for our commoninterests.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Gotcha Makes a lot of sense.
All right.
Now you want to go to the thirdone?
Let's go, All right.
I parted company withnationalists on Dr King.
It seemed clear to me thatnonviolent mass action was an
(30:02):
effective tactic.
I supported any strategy thatcould move the southern masses
of our people to confrontAmerican apartheid Page 111.
Ok.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
I think that Kwame, on that quote on King, he's
doing the same thing that I did,you know, when I was younger,
you know, I would talk, quoteMalcolm X or Mawali, and, you
know, speak against Dr King.
And so me and Chris, one timewe were walking with Rafiki, and
(30:49):
Rafiki was like, nah, weshouldn't take that approach of
you know, saying we'resupporting Malcolm X but we're
condemning Martin Luther King.
We should look at the positivesand negatives in both and then
try to develop out of andadvance the struggle that they
(31:12):
both waged.
You understand.
And so when, uh, and so he sokwame ture, he used to always
talk about the things that drking contributed to our struggle
.
You know, he talked about howKing was a great mobilizer while
Malcolm X was a great organizer.
(31:32):
And he talked about how Dr Kingtaught us to face the enemy
without fear.
You know, confront the enemy,Go to.
He said that it was.
It was a gift, you know, and anability of Dr King to be able
to get the people to stand up tothe white men in America they
(31:54):
were afraid, you know, timid,you know they have been
terrorized by the Ku Klux Klanand the police and for Africans
to get in the street and standright face to face with the
police in America was a verygreat accomplishment and stand
up for our actual rights, ourright to vote, our right to to
(32:18):
ride on the front of the bus,you know very.
And then later, the poorpeople's campaign.
And so King was, you know, agifted orator and he was, he was
, he was a person that had ahigh integrity, you know, he was
consistent in what he said.
You know, if he said that he'sgoing to be nonviolent and
(32:42):
that's his principle, then helater told America that, you
know, they need to be nonviolent.
In Vietnam, you know, and aroundthe world, you know, in their
war machine against poor peopleall over the world, you know,
and called America said, and Ialso agree that with nonviolence
(33:02):
as a principle, rathernonviolence is a tactic, because
King was being protected byarmed guards.
So that showed that the peoplein his organization even didn't
(33:23):
agree with nonviolence as aprinciple.
But what he did bring to to ourstruggle was very important and
invaluable.
And Dr King was like the moralvoice.
And so you see what happened.
When they assassinated King,what did the people do?
What did Africans do?
(33:45):
All over America?
They rose up.
You know and let the enemy knowthat.
You know we're not just goingto just take this lying down
with the assassination of King.
You know so.
They destroyed properties thatdidn't belong to us.
You know and let them know thatnow we're going to destroy,
(34:05):
we're going to do something thatis going to know negatively
affect you, if you know, fortaking out, you know, somebody
who is a great, you know,african, like dr king, and a lot
of what dr king stood for andwhat he advocated for and what
he, you know, demonstrated, whatwas, um, uh, not publicized by
(34:29):
the capitalist media.
I think that's very important.
I think now on social media,some of the presentations and
speeches and interviews Dr Kingpresented are now being shown on
(34:51):
YouTube and those types ofthings.
But, like Kwame said, why wecan't wait Dr King's book, why
we Can't Wait?
Dr King came to Ghana and he metwith Kwame.
He took pictures with Kwame andKrumah and he said that he
supported Ghanaian independenceagainst colonial rule, he was
(35:15):
anti-colonialist, and then heeven said that what he learned
and what he saw in Ghana, youknow, inspired him to fight for
the rights of Africans.
You know, stronger in America,that was in 57, he came to Ghana
for independence, forindependence ceremony, you see,
(35:38):
and they were asking him in aninterview, you know, how do you
think about Ghana?
He said well, we wish we couldhave you know what the Ghanaians
are having for the Africans inAmerica.
That was my impression.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
When I saw his connection to Kwame Nkrumah I
thought he was more.
He took more of an impressionfrom Kwame Nkrumah than he did
from the guy from India.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
What's his name?
Mahatma.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Gandhi, mahatma Gandhi.
I saw our struggle moreparallel with the Convention
People's Party than MahatmaGandhi's struggle.
I saw it much closer and theywere both alphas as well, he and
Nkrumah.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Nkrumah was a sigma.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
He was a sigma.
Okay, yes, Okay.
So I was close.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Now you want to go into the third.
No, this is not the hold on.
How many did we get?
Speaker 3 (36:39):
One quick point to make is that.
So that demonstrates thatMartin Luther King was looking
at the tactics that he was usingin America and Africa.
You know, exactly tactically.
But on the colonial question,martin Luther King was clear
that Africans have the right tocontrol our land, africans have
(37:01):
the right to independentgovernment, africans should be
sovereign, have the right tonational self-determination and
sovereignty, and so therefore,you know, king was very clear on
those aspects, but he was justlooking at the actual conditions
of Africans in America and said, ok, in order to get these
(37:23):
Africans to stand up and moveforward, these are, this is this
is what we need to do to get usfrom step A to step B.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
These are the kind of tactics you know they both very
successfully used boycotts andstrikes, what we call positive
action to effect change.
You know that's what one thingthey had in common.
They used it masterfully andthey had a string of things they
were doing, not just one thingone, no, it was like A, b, c, d,
e, f, g, yeah, and also younotice that Martin Luther King
(38:00):
never condemned black power andalso the SNCC organizers who
were, you know, working with him.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
He was close with some of those youth, like Kwame
Ture.
So Martin Luther King wassomeone who maybe he was going
to be nonviolent.
But deacons for defense werethere, sncc were there and, like
Kwame said, a lot of them werearmed.
So, martin Luther King, he saidfor him, martin Luther King,
this is what he's going to benonviolent.
(38:30):
But he was working with otherpeople who were using various
type of tactics and methods andso he was looking at what he was
doing tactically, you know,tactically and strategically,
and I think that he was tryingto apply certain methods to the
conditions in America, that hewas trying to apply certain
methods to the conditions inAmerica, you know.
(38:50):
So the mistakes Martin LutherKing made, like taking
nonviolence to the level of aprinciple, we can correct those
mistakes and look at thosemethods as tactical methods
rather than principle, you know,than a principle that, like he,
(39:11):
like how he looked at it.
That's something we can learnfrom that and then also be able
to be more dialectical in thekind of tactics that we, you
know, like looking at how to beable to work with other African
groups.
You know we can be moreobjective in our approach to
(39:32):
struggle and looking at whatworks.
You know what type of things iseffective in being able to
advance our interests forward asAfricans.
You know what works and so whatDr King was doing, it was
effective and it was working.
(40:12):
No-transcript.
Their modus operandi is toterrorize Africans.
So when you get in the streetsand you start organizing on the
streets, you know to confrontthem.
That's not no small thing.
Your life is on the line.
Your life is on the line.
Your life is on the line.
And so you know for Dr King toget all those Africans
(40:35):
Christians, you know, africansin the South who have been
terrorized by Ku Klux Klan andwhite police, you know all those
years, all these, you know allthis period of time to get them,
to confront them on theirrights was a very great
accomplishment.
You know who else was going toget the Africans to come to the
(40:56):
streets.
You know to confront the enemy.
And so, as the Africans werecoming to the streets to
confront the enemy, then thatcreated a bigger space for
revolutionaries who were armed,like the Deacons for Defense and
SNCC organizers and others tobe able to come with their guns,
you know, and not, you know, besingled out and targeted so
(41:19):
easily.
Right, right, you understandwhat I'm saying.
And so, like Mao Zedong wrotein his book on guerrilla warfare
Mao Zedong was saying that weneed to revolutionaries need to
swim in a big ocean rather thanin a small pond Say that
revolutionaries need to swim ina big ocean rather than in a
small pond.
(41:39):
And so, by King being able toget the masses to come to the
streets, now that is making theocean bigger for those in SNCC,
those in deacons for defense andother formations to become more
active, and it makes it moredifficult for the enemy to
target some of us that theywould be able to target more
(42:00):
easily, like how they, howthey're naming some africans as
black identity extremists.
You know, if all our people, ifour men, the masses of our
people, are in the streetsconfronting the enemy, then it's
more difficult to target you,those who are in the
revolutionary intelligentsia, orthose who are, you know, very
(42:21):
active organizers, very vibrantand active organizers.
So that condition is better forus to make change.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yes, sir, good.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Hold on one second.
So now let's go into the nextone.
The next one is then he.
Then he suddenly leaned closerand asked when are you African
Americans going to repatriate toAfrica?
I said, well, sir, we are notthere yet, but that remains the
(43:00):
ultimate goal, but it willsurely be in the future, as the
contradictions continue todevelop.
Page 601.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
That was the conversation he was having with
Mao right.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
No with Ho Chi Minh.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Okay, Ho Chi Minh, pardon me.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah, yeah.
So that quote, I think thatit's clear where our nationalism
?
Because Ho Chi Minh used tosail on ships back and forth to
New York and he heard Garveyspeak and was very impressed
with Marcus Garvey, and so hewas so impressed that it said
(43:45):
that he made a financialcontribution to the UNIA, the
Universal Negro ImprovementAssociation that African
communities lead.
And also Ho Chi Minh wrotearticles condemning the lynching
of Africans in America.
He wrote articles I've read thearticles in a book that Ho Chi
(44:08):
Minh wrote against lynching ofAfricans.
And so Ho Chi Minh was somebodywho had heard Garvey's line
Africa for Africans, those athome and those abroad.
And when Kwame Ture went toVietnam, some of the cadres that
he met were Marxist, likeMarxist, leninist oriented.
(44:28):
And we have that, like Kenyattawas talking about, in our
movement.
We have those who are morenationalist oriented.
We have those who are morenationalist oriented.
We have those who are Marxist.
You know various.
You know factions that arelooking at socialism as an
objective.
You know for our people, thatis, a better economic system for
(44:50):
our people.
And so with this he said thoseare some, but, but the question
is what type of ideologicalorientation that they have to
guide us to achieve socialism.
And so Ho, ho Chi Minh, he hadbeen exposed to nationalism from
Garvey and others.
(45:10):
And so when Kwame went toVietnam and he met Ho, that he
would first those, those who,those other Vietnamese, they
were pushing a Marxist line.
But when he met Ho, ho Chi Minhwas like, well, when are you
Africans, when are youAfrican-Americans going back to
Africa?
And so he was like, wow, youknow, look at what the man Ho
(45:35):
Chi Minh, leading the Vietnamese, the Viet Cong, against
American imperialism anddefeating American imperialism,
a great, great hero like Ho ChiMinh.
And so for him to say what hesaid to Kwame Ture, it was very
(45:56):
profound and took him aback tohear Ho Chi Minh say such a
thing.
And so Kwame Ture was like, whenhe reflected on what Ho Chi
Minh was saying you're right,you know, that's the ultimate
goal.
You know Africa is the ultimategoal for African people, you
know.
And so for those of us who arein the United Snakes, you know
(46:20):
to look and say you know where'sour nationalism, which land is
ours, what soil are we?
You know we have all thesestruggles going on now, you know
, to a very high extent becauseof mental slavery and our
detachment from our land and thenatal alienation that was
(46:43):
infused into us in americaduring the genocide of chattel
enslavement, and so that's nowtrying to tie us to other lands
instead of our actual land,where we come from.
And so that nationalism isAfrican nationalism.
That's our nationalism, isAfrican nationalism, and so you
(47:07):
know, that is the viablenationalism for our people.
You know, and that doesn't meanwe can't own land in other
locations of the world and thatdoesn't mean we can't organize
ourselves in other locations inthe world.
But if you look at the Chinese,you have a model.
They have Chinatowns all overin the States, don't they?
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Right.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
For sure.
Yeah, so that doesn't mean thatChina is not the base for the
Chinese people in America, doesit?
Just because they haveChinatowns in America, that
doesn't mean China is no longertheir base for their nationalism
.
So if you look at Africans inAmerica, it's the same thing,
(47:48):
but only because of mentalslavery.
Chinese don't have mentalslavery.
That's why the governor, whenhe won the election in
Washington, state that wherewhere's the first place he went.
I think his name was Gary Locke, right.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
Yep, yep, gary Locke.
He became the governor.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Well, his screen is frozen again, but I want to end
right here.
I want to end right here andyou know, and come back and
build on this.
There's a lot of things that Iwant to build on with the
brother Emoli and yourself, Ithink.
(48:31):
Did he come back?
Speaker 2 (48:33):
yeah, he coming back yeah, cause this is an important
subject and it has to bepresented in it's proper
perspective.
Man, yeah, he's coming back.
Just a philosophy, you know,and it produces exact results.
And he has produced exact,precise results.
(49:00):
You know, he's not justsomebody who's just talking or
theorizing.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Indeed indeed.
So on that note, man, we'regoing to click out.
Thank you for all who were onthe chat.
Thank you, brother Magnetic,for coming on.
Really appreciate yourcontribution and we are out of
here.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Peace.
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