September 3, 2025 • 58 mins
Journey with us as we explore the remarkable resilience and cultural depth of the Garifuna people through the eyes of Martine (known to many as "Teenie"), a Bronx-born keeper of Garifuna heritage with roots in Honduras.
The story begins in St. Vincent and the Grenadines, where the Garifuna, led by Paramount Chief Joseph Chatoyer, fought valiantly against British colonizers until their eventual exile. Rather than perish on the barren island of Baliceaux as intended, they survived and established vibrant communities across Honduras, Guatemala, Belize, and Nicaragua. This diaspora explains why many Garifuna people today speak multiple languages while maintaining their own rich cultural practices.
Drums—described by Martine as "portal openers"—form the spiritual backbone of Garifuna culture. These instruments create pathways between worlds during ceremonies like the Dugu, where ancestors and the living commune in sacred spaces. Traditional dances tell powerful stories: Punta originated as a funeral ritual symbolizing the circle of life, while the warrior dance Mascaro (Junko Nu) commemorates how Garifuna men once dressed as women to outwit colonizers who threatened their communities.
Throughout our conversation, Martine shares personal insights into growing up between worlds—navigating American life in the Bronx while discovering her Garifuna heritage, which wasn't always openly embraced at home. She speaks candidly about spiritual gifts that manifest across generations and the challenges facing Garifuna spirituality today, from technological distractions pulling youth away from traditions to ongoing land rights struggles in Honduras.
This episode bridges worlds—connecting listeners to a culture that survived against impossible odds while offering wisdom about community healing, ancestral connection, and the powerful truth that what separates us is merely "bodies of water and flags." Subscribe now and join us in celebrating the enduring legacy of the Garifuna people.
NYPTALKSHOW EP.1 HOSTED BY RON BROWNLMT & MIKEY FEVER
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
peace world how you doing.
It's your brother, mikey fever.
Miss you all.
Welcome to another episode ofnyp talk show.
Hope all is well with thebrothers and sisters out there,
our listeners and our viewers.
Don't forget to comment, like,share, subscribe.
We have super chat and tonightwe have a special guest who will
(00:32):
be giving us some enlightenmentand education about the
Garofina culture and heritage.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcometo Martine of Garifuna.
Warriors Peace.
I'm working this pad out, butit's all good.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Are you shooting me for it?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, I know I should .
I'm bad about that.
You see, it's that Brooklyn man.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
My bad.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
How you doing, Miss Martine.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I am good, how are you?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
All is well.
I'm good In recovery mode, butall good.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
You're healing, you're healing.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Of course, of course.
That's what matters, man, I'mhappy to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Of course, man.
This interview was supposed tohappen long ago, but now we got
it on track.
I know we got to educate longago, but now we got it on track.
I know we got to educate thepeople and we want to know more
about the Garofina culture.
But before we go into that,give us an introduction.
Where are you from?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Okay, my name is Martine.
Everybody knows me as Teenie.
I was born in the bronx, newyork, um boogie down what else,
of course, and um, um, yeah, I'mborn and raised in the bronx.
(02:02):
My family's from honduras.
We are garifuna from hondurasthere's many uh-huh and um.
I I do have family in guatemala, belize, um, everywhere.
I don't have to have a hotel togo to these places because
family will open their doors.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So that's peace right there.
So, being that you was born inthe bronx families from honduras
, you got family in guatemala.
Um, how was your upbringing inthe bronx?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
it was.
I'm gonna be honest, because,um, being raised in a domestic
violence home, um, we tend tokeep everything what happens at
home stays at home.
So it was a little rough.
Um, you know, I have familymembers that you know stuck in
(03:03):
and try to help raise us at ayoung age.
So, but it's, it was a littlerough.
It was a little rough, but whatI can tell you is that I was
fortunate to have parents thattook care of us.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
SPs.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Who were like oh yeah , you was fed with a silver
spoon.
Yeah, we had a lot of stuff.
We had to earn it.
So my childhood was a littlerough as well, but I enjoyed the
moments.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
And when I mean upbringing, as far as being at
your family's from Honduras,like, and you're being born here
, right, correct, that's correct, right.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
You're born here.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
How did you mesh both cultures, Like the american way
of upbringing in you know thehonduras way?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
um, so to be honest, right to be honest, yes, my
parents are from honduras.
However, my dad was mostly withthe puerto ricans.
He did not affiliate himself asa Garifuna male.
He didn't.
I guess he knew he was Garifuna.
He knew, but that was never inthe household.
(04:10):
He did not want us to playpunta at the house, he looked at
it as voodoo music.
My mom, on the other hand, shespoke the language, she knew how
to cook the food, she dancedand she was a visionary, like
(04:31):
she knew what she wanted.
You know, growing up she wassent to this country for school
and she just developed fromthere.
But with the culture she snuckit in little by little, with the
music, the food.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Both parents.
Both parents.
All from Honduras.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Okay, okay, and have you been to Honduras?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So I have been to Honduras.
My first time was in 2010.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Mm-hmm, nice, nice, like.
How did you do the typical likewhen you, coming home, kiss the
ground off the airplane?
I've caught the plane kissingthe ground like I'm home and no,
I did not.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I, it was a culture shock for me because, um, we
never spoke about hond.
The only time we knew aboutHonduras was when we was
behaving bad as kids.
My grandmother or my mother waslike, if you continue behaving
bad, we're going to send you toHonduras, because over there
(05:36):
they're going to discipline youin school.
And I was always afraid ofgoing to Honduras.
I was always afraid of going toHonduras.
So I had to break thatgenerational mental curse where.
Let me just go to Honduras andsee for myself.
And I was like, oh my God, Igot dirt roads, like, oh my God,
you're drinking water out of aplastic bag.
It was a lot.
(05:57):
It was a lot.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I was like really no, no, but not what, let's keep it
real Well.
My family family, that is,they're good, they well off.
I have friends that from othercountries that went to stay with
my family they, they are good.
But the same tactic where youwere used by my parents when I
was misbehaving, I'm gonna sendyou to haiti and you're gonna
see what they go through andstuff like that.
(06:19):
That happens when my cousinshouts my cousin real, they sent
them to to Haiti.
The funny thing is I rememberwhen my mom and my pops tried to
get a ticket to send me outthere.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I must have been like 12, 13.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I ran away from home.
They didn't see me in two days.
You're going to lose thatticket, yeah.
That money you paid, you'regoing to lose, and I made sure
they lost it.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
It's not going to work over here.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Sorry, next time, right.
So what I'm going to do rightthere with you and I'm glad that
you broke it down for us let'sget into some questions about
the Garifuna culture.
Okay, you know what I'm saying.
So we can educate and bringfurther enlightenment for our
viewers and listeners, and maybethey could add on in the
comment section when they catchDriftless episode.
(07:09):
So let's go.
Who are the Garofina people andhow did they migrate?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I mean pardon me, how did they?
Speaker 1 (07:17):
originate.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Got you, I understood .
So we started off with StVincent and the Grenadines.
We had our Garifuna leader, ourleader called chief joseph
southway, paramount chief josephsouthway.
I can't forget that paramountbecause he was super powerful.
Um, we started off there andthen the colonizers came in.
(07:41):
They kicked us out.
The the word that they use isexiled.
I'm going to be straightforward.
They kicked us out of saintvincent.
They put us in an island rockcalled baliso now baliso, I call
it now.
Um, it's a cemetery without thetombstones because they sent us
that.
Yeah, they sent us there tojust perish, to just die, to end
(08:05):
that tribe.
So most of them they were ableto make it out go to Honduras,
guatemala, belize and Nicaragua.
So this is why most of us speakSpanish and most of us speak
English speak Spanish and mostof us speak English.
Belize they speak Englishbecause of their colonizers,
(08:32):
which is the British.
And then in Honduras, you gotthe Spaniards, and so this is
why one country speaks Englishand the other I mean one part of
Garifuna culture, the Garinagopeople speak english and some of
them speak spanish.
There's some that speaks french.
Um, there's some we speak.
We adapt.
(08:52):
We adapt to anything.
If we gotta make our way.
We're gonna.
We're gonna get what we need toget all right, understood.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So you mean to tell me the colonizers came in and
they moved the people into adesolate island that that, where
land was not fertile, theycouldn't cultivate any way of
living, and expect them to dieout?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
correct.
However, I I didn't mentionthis.
We were at war with the British, with the colonizers, for so
many years.
We defeated them.
Okay, we defeated them so manytimes because we wanted to stay
home.
Like, why are you coming intosomebody's house and kick them
out?
Like we're going to put up afight?
So we put up a fight and we wonmajority of the fights until
(09:41):
that last day.
Yeah, that's what they do, soI'm not sure how many years
we've been fighting with theBritish.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
But it was a long time, but the day that they
killed our leader, that was wheneverything went pshh.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
And his name again.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Paramount Chief Joseph Satoyer.
I say Satoyer, st Vincent saysShatoyer.
Different pronunciation, butthe same person.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Got you.
That's peace man, and whatwe're doing here at NYP is that
we like to bring differentcultures so we could change On
this platform is to be incontrol of our own narrative,
and when we say being in control.
It's not to fabricate nothing.
We're going to tell the storylike it is, but in the correct
way, where we don't have toalways be like.
(10:35):
Slavery is our genesis.
That's all we know about you.
You guys are victims.
No, this is you know, show thebeautiful side of our cultures
you know, build that bridge.
So that's what it's about.
So I have a second question foryou, which is what languages do
the Garifuna speak and how arethey preserved today?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So in Honduras they speak Garifuna.
They speak Garifuna, english,spanish, french.
Like I said, wherever they'relocated.
They will adapt and learn thatlanguage, just to survive.
I think most of the Garifunapeople are on survival mode to
this day to get where they needto get.
Yeah, I know, right now inHonduras it's chaos.
(11:22):
It was chaos, it's still chaos.
They're still killing us.
They're still trying to takeour land that belongs to us
there in Honduras, even thoughwe got proof from people that
that's our land, but they'restill trying to take it away
from us.
So it's still a battle.
It's still a battle,unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Can you give an example of the dialect that's
spoken?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
in.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Honduras of the Garifuna language.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, oh, thank you, because I was not going to put a
post.
So we have one that says goodmorning, which is Bwiti Binafi,
good afternoon Bwiti Rambawayu,and we have good night.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I got.
You see, now I'm a pro rightnow I know the language.
Now that's it.
That's all I needed.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I'm straight those are the important.
Those are the important ones.
So.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I respect that.
How did the Garifuna peoplealright, we already got that,
you know.
How did the Garifuna peoplealright, we already got that.
You know how did the Garifunapeople arrive in Central America
from St Vincent and youbasically went through that, how
they were exiled to an island.
Yeah, what role does drummingplay in the Garifuna music and
(12:43):
spirituality?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
a huge part without, without our drums, and I call
them portal openers.
There's it's like how can I sayit?
You know, when you're making acertain ingredient, is that one
important ingredient that'smissing?
That's the Garifuna drum forGarifuna people Like you have to
(13:10):
have Garifuna drums in anyevent.
If it's a Garifuna event, justmake sure you just have those
drums.
When it comes to spirituality,we normally play the drums.
We have different genres in ourcommunity, I mean in our
community, in our music, we havea whole bunch and in those
(13:32):
genres we have different dancesthat have different meanings.
When there's an ancestralceremony, there's a rhythm for
that.
There's a rhythm for that.
There's a rhythm for that,along with songs oh, really so
like.
So basically, the drums is thepulse of the people's, the
(13:53):
heartbeat, the backbone thatkeeps it going any other
instruments are utilized so wehave the maracas, we have the
conch shell um we normally weuse the turtle shell or the
cowbell okay, it's very similarto many other cultures out there
(14:14):
oh yeah, oh yeah that's cool,that's dope.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
What are some traditional garifuna dances and
what do they symbolize?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Okay, so we have the most important one and most
popular one, which is Punta.
Punta is one of our many danceswhere, back in the days, when
somebody passed away becausePunta is is is a is a dance,
it's a a call it the ritualdance.
Where, when somebody passedaway because punta is a dance, I
(14:46):
call it a ritual dance.
Where, when somebody passesaway, they would play punta and
a male and a female obviously amarried couple would have to
dance.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Really.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And, yeah, married couple have to dance and there
will be a candle there, whethera candle or the body that's
present, the deceased person,that male and that female, have
to dance and they have toreplace that soul that passed
away.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
That makes sense.
I'm following along.
I'm following along, okay.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
So basically they have to have a baby to replace
that soul, so that soul can comesomewhere else or go into that
baby.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Got you, I got you.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I call it the circle of life, literally.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
No, that's what it symbolizes, because after the
dancing they got to go Mm-hmm,talk to me and do adult things
to reproduce.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Of course, like I have to dumb it down for my kids
, because my kids meetingstudents when I teach is a
circle of life.
A man and a woman have to makea baby to replace the person
that passed away.
Call it the circle of life.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
I got you.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
And then we have one other one, also known as Mascaro
, also known as Junko Nu.
It's the Garifuna Warrior Dance.
It's a dance to basically trickthe colonizers.
So history has it because ChiefJoseph Satie was super
(16:22):
intelligent and super strategic.
Because Chief Joseph Satie wassuper intelligent and super
strategic, there's part of ourhistory where Barauda, who was
his main wife, because he hadmany wives, barauda was very,
very fed up and the mostimportant line that she says you
(16:44):
wear my skirt and I wear yourpants, it gave them.
Oh, because history has it thatyou know, when our Garifuna men
will go fishing or go out thehouse to go do something, the
women will stay in the house,either cook, clean X, y and Z.
The colonizers will come intothe house to take advantage of
(17:06):
the women, of course.
So what Satoye did was put theskirt on, stood in the house,
cleaned, cooked all that stuffto trick the enemy.
So when the enemy went in thereand tried to do what he
normally did to women, he foundhimself with the men and that's
how they were able to beat thecolonizers in that form they're
(17:29):
very smart strategy right hereyes, yes.
So it's when we see the garifrom our males now, when they're
dancing gari from um, they weredressed as women, with skirts,
nice um, a blouse and a mask andcolorful ribbons and all that
stuff.
So that's the warrior dance.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I got you.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And then we have gunche, which is more for like a
formal dance.
It's more of a quadrille dance.
I don't know if you've everseen.
You've seen Bridgerton, right?
I don't know if you've heard ofit.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Can you repeat that?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Bridgerton.
It's one of those Netflixmovies.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
No, no, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Okay, so you know about the royal family.
They will have a dance andit'll be like couples, and then
you'll have to switch.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Oh, okay, mm-hmm, and it'll be like couples, and then
you'll have to switch oh, okay,we have a dance like that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
It's called gun che.
Um, yeah, that's another, adifferent rhythm as well.
It's a formal dance.
It's like when you go to a gala, this is the dance you would do
yeah, I've seen.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I've seen.
I've been to galas, but notwhere they perform that.
But I've seen other functionsthat do it, which might be odd,
but I didn't know.
There was more of a meaningbehind it.
But now I understand.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Oh, yeah, it is, it definitely is.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I got you with that.
So how is ancestor venerationpracticed in the Garifuna
spirituality veneration practicein the?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Garifuna spirituality .
So one thing about Garifunapeople we're very ancestral.
Basically, we have ceremonies.
It's called the gu.
This is where both worlds meet.
In the ceremony we normally wealways have drums, always with a
(19:30):
rhythm.
We are not allowed to wearblack because it attracts
negativity.
So, and then there's always abouye.
There Bouye is a high priestessthat's making sure that
everything is in control andthey need to do what they need
to do.
(19:50):
We normally I keep sayingnormally, because we do we put
food out, Because when there'slike a bunch of families
together, they're coming withtheir ancestors.
When we feed them, there's ahuge table there.
(20:10):
We put whatever those familymembers bring, whether it's
fruits, candy, their favoritefood, their favorite drink.
If you don't put a candle,you're more than welcome to put
a candle.
Whatever you want to bring,you're more than welcome to put
a candle.
Whatever you want to bring,you're more than welcome to put
at the table.
Gotcha, Of course, there'ssongs that go with them.
(20:30):
During that ceremony we'rewearing uniforms, Really A
specific color.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Specific pattern For that ceremony Can you get into?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
details of that pattern.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
It's normally checkered.
Sometimes it's regular colors,it's not patterns Skirts for
women.
Yeah, dashiki for men, likeregular colors, is not patterns
Skirts for women.
Dashiki for men.
You have to have your scarf onto protect your ori.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
The ori yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
We have to and you don't have to because people be
like, oh, I don't understandanything.
Trust me, you're going to findsomebody that's going to
translate for you, becausemajority of our rizqa is in Gari
Fana and they speak Gari Fanaand some of our messages are in
Gari Fana.
So there's somebody that'sgoing to be translating for you
Because me, me, the person,because I don't understand it, I
(21:37):
don't speak it.
I just know the certain words,important words, I it, I just
know the certain words,important words.
I tend to be like what she said, what happened?
Because everybody's like, oh,why?
And I'm like I want to ooh-ahtoo, what's going on?
So, with that spiritualceremony, it sums up a lot of
(22:00):
stuff.
Let's say, you and I got a beefand we go to the ceremony.
The ancestors are going to makesure that we're going to squash
that beef right there.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Really.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yep, and if you don't get to act together, there's
consequences.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I like that.
So it's community-based.
That's what I noticed with alot of these spiritual practices
the people that really followit to its core.
It's community-based.
I don't know what they're doingnow online or in the physical,
where they constantly arebickering with each other, and
I'm going to do this to thisperson, I'm going to do such and
that I don't agree with you.
(22:38):
It's important to have theelders present to keep the
unification, because I don'tknow what's going on.
It's important to have theelders present to keep the
unification because I don't knowwhat's going on.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
It's a double-edged sword.
It's a double-edged swordbecause sometimes our elders
don't want to teach the youngones and there's the young ones
that don't want to learn fromthe elders.
There's that friction rightthere and there's that gap that
needs to be filled, becausewe're going to be elders soon
and we need to teach the nextgeneration.
(23:06):
So it's, it's, it's been, it'sa little bit of a challenge the
culture basically dies outbecause the generational gap,
egos, are involved.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
I don't want to hear from you, and you know the
younger is the same what youfelt.
That's why we still in thisposition, the youngest feeling,
that feeling that we're going tobreak the curse Instead of
coming together and learningfrom the errors you know that's
across the board in dealing withso-called Black or Indigenous
African people.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
All right.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I have.
One is what is the significanceof cassava in Garifuna cuisine
and culture, also known asmoniok, which we do say in
Creole as well?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
what do you call it?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
moniok moniok.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
We call it ereba.
That's in Garifuna, ereba, ahuge significance, it's huge.
We snack on it like we're boredor whatever.
We want to snack on something,we eat it and whatnot.
But that was our main, one ofour main dishes cassava.
We do um porridge with it.
We do many dishes with it.
(24:17):
I just can't name it on top ofour hat, my head, but I know
it's a porridge.
We call it at allol inGarifuna's Adulu.
We take the starch from it andwe make atol the porridge.
I know that for a fact.
We do a lot of stuff.
We boil it, we fry it, we doeverything with it.
(24:38):
We make a salad out of it.
We just we get creative becausewe get bored.
So we get creative with Ereba.
But cassava is our main one ofour thing.
We eat it with our machuca,joduto or jodut, depending where
you're at.
We eat it with the soup.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
What is machuca?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
So machuca is a coconut-based soup with seafood
in it.
You got your crabs, you gotyour lobsters, you have your um
your shrimps, you have your ofcaracoles, your how you say
caracol caracoles.
Oh my god.
(25:20):
You have that, and then you getyour green and yellow um
plantains and you boil it andthen you mash it, you have your
separate plates um and then youeat it.
It's basically like fufu um.
Back in the days we used to eatit with our hands, but now we
eat it with our spoons and fish.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I can't forget the fish, you can either have it
fried, or you can have it inyour soup, making me sound very
hungry right now.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
You better eat that around 12 o'clock pm.
Don't eat that before you go tosleep.
It's a very heavy meal.
You'll be put in a coma.
Yeah, this is why when the menback in the days used to go to
work, they will come home hungryand that will be the main dish.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
They would eat something super happy and then
just go to sleep all right, I'mlooking for a honduras
restaurant and make sure it'sGarifuna.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
You better hope somebody's there, I'd rather you
.
I'll direct you to a Garifunathat will make my checkup for
you.
I wouldn't recommend you to goto a Honduran restaurant for
that.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
All right, I got you.
Appreciate that and this is.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
You know, it's funny, this question right.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Here is what we were speaking about earlier.
How are garifuna oraltraditions used to used to pass
down history and values?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
we did talk to about this.
I think it's it was weak.
When I say weak because thecommunication with the elders
and the youth was never there,remember, and I think we all in
the african diaspora across theboard of course we were never in
(27:11):
grown folks business, and evenif it was, we would get kicked
out because it's none of ourbusiness.
we're too young to evenunderstand, so we never ask
questions.
And even if we did askquestions, it's like what our
business?
We're too young to evenunderstand so we never ask
questions.
And even if we did askquestions, it's like what you
want to know?
That for For what?
Get out of here, go play.
And so we did what our parentstold us to do Go play.
(27:33):
We never cared about guttingfrom the traditions.
Well, me I'm speaking for me.
I don't know about everybodyelse, but for me and my
household.
They didn't teach us that.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
they teach us that we had to learn on our own that is
so messed up it's, and so theelders within the african
diaspora.
It's important to teach theyoung.
You can't have them runningaround here running their head
into the wall or say, oh well, Ihave to learn on my own, so
therefore you gotta go throughthe same process.
No, it's best to catch them andtell them yield and pay heed to
what I'm about to teach you,because I've been down this
(28:04):
route before.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
But you know, again it's at a point where the elders
are afraid to speak to theyouth out of fear because of the
backlash I remember I want totake away from the youth, but a
lot of them they don't have muchinteraction with one another
really, other than the phone, soby the time they're around each
other they don't know how tointeract hold a conversation and
(28:30):
interact, engage people.
They think everything is justthrough social media.
I was able to do this, so youshould accept that, because I'm
doing it in person right.
I know it can't separate thevirtual reality from reality, so
yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
it's hard because, again, like you mentioned,
picking back up for what youjust said, with the technology,
nowadays everybody's like this.
Me in the 80s, 90s, I used togo outside, fall off the trees,
get scars okay, I used to playbasketball.
I used to play.
90s.
I used to go outside, fall offthe trees, get scars Okay, I
used to play basketball.
I used to play manhunt, I usedto play all of that Roller blade
(29:08):
.
We did exercise as kids, likewe just didn't care.
Now these kids, when I went toschool teaching these kids, if
they fall, I need a band-aid.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah, it's crazy.
Or they're watching videos ofother children playing outside
on YouTube.
I'm like that does not makesense, there's no activities for
them.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
There's no activity for them.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
We were creative.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
We were super creative with a lot of stuff.
No, but these kids are notcreative Like.
I remember making up dances.
I don't see these kids makingup dances Now.
They do TikTok and it's like Idon't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
We're dancing right, waving their arms side to side,
and they're like that's a dance.
I don't know, I have no idea.
What is the Dugu ceremony andwhy?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
is it important to important to Garifuna
spirituality?
Speaker 1 (30:06):
That's what I was telling you about.
The dance with the.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
No, the spiritual ceremony is called the Guh.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I'm saying it wrong.
It's the Guh.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
The Guh, it's okay, I'm here to teach and learn.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
It's the Guh, alright , so we got into that.
Yeah, the.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Guh is an to learn.
It's the good.
Yeah, the good is a ancestral,ancestral ceremony where family
gets together.
If there's a message that needsto be said to the family,
whatever we need to listen to itand go by it.
Majority of these, the goodceremonies, is to bring people,
(30:43):
the families, together becausewe've been broken up so long.
Or if somebody has a dream andlet's say in that dream somebody
wants a plate of food.
Okay that person that dreamt iteither makes a plate of food and
(31:03):
give it to that person or tellthe priest this was my dream.
The priest will tell you whatto do now if you don't do it.
That's when stuff startshappening.
Why they make this plate forthis ancestor that asked for a
plate of food when stuff startshappening.
Why they make this play forthis ancestor that acts for the
(31:25):
plate of food.
We're taking you so long, andsome people because of religion,
some people are afraid of it.
Some people they fear it a lot,and I'm talking about my elders
.
Some of them still fear theseceremonies.
They don't know how to moveforward with it.
Versus now, this generation,millennials is like what we
(31:49):
gotta do.
Let's get things done, becauseby the end of the day, I am not
going to get hurt or or getconsequences right here because
of you.
No, let's get this plate offood, let's get this together,
come on, and that's how we work.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
I like that.
See Innovators.
Yes, I got another one for you.
How do Garofina people blendAfrican indigenous and Catholic
spiritual practices?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
If I don't know anything, I'm going to.
If I don't know anything, I'mgoing to say I don't know.
I'm going to tell you what Iknow.
I know Catholic plays a hugerole in the Garifuna community.
They go to church, they do themass Before our Dugu ceremonies.
(32:43):
They have to have a priestblessed or whatever, and then
start the ceremony.
Me personally, because ourancestors didn't have to use
Catholic you know the religionof Catholic to do what they
needed to do.
(33:04):
To be honest, I feel that thisis something.
It's brand new because beforereligion came into play, we
already was doing our stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah.
Just putting it out there.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I know this is going to be some good.
I don't care, but that's thetruth.
Before religion came, we werestill doing our things yeah,
it's like that across the board.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
It's just that we had to hide our deities, our
expression of God, behind theCatholic saints, which that
practice is called synchronicity.
So, and the thing is like.
We want to know what was thepurest form of method that was
used prior to slavery.
So I understand where you'recoming from.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
So because it's my ancestors and that's what they
used to do.
I guess they want to continuethat tradition, having the
priest there, having jesus photothere, having all of that and
it.
It bothers my spirit.
But if this is how they dotheir stuff, we're going to
(34:15):
continue doing their stuff untilsomebody says enough is enough.
This is not not my ancestor.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Johnny Depp.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Negative, negative, bumble cloud.
Yes, I got you Even doing thecross symbol and whatever we
(34:45):
used to pray to the gods fromthe north and east and west, and
you know north, south, east,west.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
We, that was our cause well, you know, if you
look at the unk, that's what youknow the four cardinal points
access points.
You know the four cardinalpoints access points you know
the portals.
Yes, what you about to say.
I know we can't say much onhere, but I got to.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I know Continue.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
YouTube is married with a sensor.
Don't want to hurt nobody'sfeelings.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Okay, sensitive answers.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
I got another one for you.
What training and initiationmust a bullier undergo?
Speaker 2 (35:31):
I don't think there's no training.
To be honest, you think I'd beborn with it.
This is my opinion.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe I'm wrong If my peoplewouldn't have listened.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe I'm wrong If my Garifunapeople wouldn't have Listen.
I'm still learning.
Some of us are born with gifts.
Okay, they're born with gifts,like there's certain gifts
(35:53):
that's passed down fromgeneration to generation.
We there's certain of us thatdream that we see things, we
hear things and whatnot.
And some of us have to gothrough hell in life to come out
like, okay, what's going on?
(36:16):
Some people have to go to abouillie to get counsel, like
what's going on with you know?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
and there's certain steps, what you said they had to
go to a bouillé to get counsel,like what's going on with you
know, and then there's certainsteps what you said.
They had to go through aprocess Bouillé, they had to go
through a process to get counsel.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Counsel.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Counsel oh, okay, apologize, I thought you said
counsel.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
I tend to speak fast, but, yeah, they go to the
Garifite priestess, tell themtheir dream, what's going on,
how they feel, x, y and Z, andsome people tend to be like,
okay, I don't know how to putthis in words, but when it comes
to that, it's a whole process.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I can't really speak about the process.
It's for me, sacred, yeah, no,that's what I was going to say.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
if you can, but just like a what you want to say,
like a general.
Okay, yeah, I can tell you this.
If a person is going throughthat process, they have to be in
isolation, no communicationwith the world whatsoever.
Your phones are taken away,every electronic that you you
have taken away you have to gothrough this alone yeah, you
(37:32):
have to go through this alone.
Yep, nobody can see you.
You cannot be seen.
For the specific days that youare isolated, they cannot see
you any special diets no, notthat I know of, because my
ancestors still ate pork and allthat, like there was no
(37:54):
restrictions or nothing, hey,hey, that's what they used to
eat back in the days, and so youknow things have been changing.
I can tell you that much.
I know I mess with you.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
And to the pork eaters out there.
I'm not trying to offend you,Just pork on my fork.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
You know I'm sorry, but it's the truth.
Okay, you know I'm sorry, butit's the truth I guess now this
generation and most people arelike okay, we can't eat pork,
why?
Because x, y and z.
Granted, I get it, but most ofour ancestors, we had to, and
when we put our offering, porkis in that table don't get me
(38:40):
wrong.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
I see that, listen, in Haitian food.
When people make offerings,certain deities do require pork
and you know, when I go to theseceremonies they be kind of
offering that plate.
I be like, nah, I'm good, butyou know, in my heart I'm there
with you.
You know what I'm saying do youeat?
Speaker 2 (38:55):
now my question to you when you, when they put food
in the plate, do you eat thefood?
Speaker 1 (39:02):
No, here's how it goes.
First, what they do, dependingon the house, from what I have
seen, they put the food on thetable as an offering.
You take a little bit, not fromthe actual plate.
They serve them first,basically, and then you eat
what's left behind.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
What's left behind right.
No no, my question is when theyare discarding the food from
the table, do you eat from theplate?
Speaker 1 (39:30):
the ancestors plate is my question oh, no, no, no,
you usually bring into like thewoods, or something by a tree or
something like that okay, we dothe same thing you do the same
thing too.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Right, do the same thing too, right.
Sometimes and I'm sometimes theperson that puts up.
Let's say, I put a plate there,right.
Let's say, I put a plate ofcookies.
I'm not allowed to eat fromthere.
But you can, Everybody else can, but I'm not.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
That's true, but let me tell you, when I was a child,
I used to tear those cookies upwhen I go by my people's house.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
you know I didn't know any better.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Oh my gosh, put my finger through the cake and, oh
my goodness, a fried piece oflet me see get this is funny,
yeah, but now people are justwaking up.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
It's like like no, don't touch it.
That's the answer.
Say, let them have it, let themhave it, let them have it.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
My mentality back then was I'm hungry too, you
know listen.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
We're going to stop playing.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
I was a child, don't forget me, but I was, because
you know.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
I was like man.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I don't time for this soda ray.
I'm giving that damn soda, Iget it.
Oh my gosh, will I do?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
that now, no, never you must be crazy.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
All right, that makes sense, never.
How are sacred, how are sacredspaces chosen for ceremonies?
Speaker 2 (40:57):
um for ceremonies.
You have to build a debuyabaand it takes a village to help
out.
A debuyaba is a temple houseit's made out of.
Yeah, they help, the wholevillage helps.
This is not just a one-manthing.
They're going to tell you thisis a good happening.
(41:19):
Okay, everybody knows.
Okay, we need help here tobuild this, the good happening.
Okay, everybody knows.
Okay, we need help here tobuild this.
Um, the boyaba, the, the templeso we, we get it.
oh my god, I can't believe I itjust I can't even tell you, but
they help out building this, um,this temple, and you have to
build like a room for the altarReally, and yeah, it's big,
(41:46):
depending on the family andwhatnot, or depending on what
the ancestors want.
I like that there's some sorry,there's some of the girls that
will last a week.
I remember my grandmother wastelling me that there was a girl
that lasted almost two months.
(42:06):
No, two weeks, she told me.
And the thing is, you can'tbathe like that, like you can't
wash your body, like you got tobe there raw Really.
But of course they give youlemon for your underarms and for
your your hot spots.
That's what I call it.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I respect that it's intense.
It's a sacrifice.
Basically, that's all it is.
It's all about sacrificing whatit does.
It's shattering the ego.
It's shattering the ego andalso is building a sense of
community and you're breakingnights.
You're breaking nights.
It's shattering the ego andalso is building a sense of
community.
Yes, you know, you're breakingnights.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
You're breaking nights.
You're breaking nights.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
I think I'll be a bad member, cause I'd like to take
them to that river.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
Good luck on that.
Good luck on that.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
I respect it, though I respect it.
So what challenges doesGarofino spirituality face in
the modern world?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
whew, from what I've seen, um, not a lot of our
people talk about gutting fromthe spirit, spirituality not a
lot.
If we do talk about it, it'sout of fear or threatening
people.
Unfortunately, that's what Isee.
Yeah, that's what I see.
(43:29):
Now, because we have technology, um, we want to videotape it,
you know.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Yeah, that's something across the board.
Don't get it Across thediaspora.
I think it's the youngergeneration and some elders as
well.
They're pretty foolish withtheir spiritual practice.
They're online and you know, Idon't know if they're joking or
not, but they just be talkingthat I'm going to do this and
that to you, and you know um.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
It's unfortunate, though, is the way of thinking
where I think our youth.
They're very scared of guttingfrom spirituality, like they
don't know what to expectbecause they just heard always
negative about it.
And me, because I'm, I'm onTikTok and whatnot, I tend to
(44:19):
like look, you don't have to beafraid of this, this is what you
have to do, don't worry aboutit, everything is fine.
This is.
You're going to get messages.
You know.
If you do it wrong, you'regoing to get corrected.
You know, when it comes to alot of stuff.
So I tend to let them unlearnthe effery, because what they
(44:47):
learned was fear, don't go there.
I don't believe in that.
It's demonic.
Is this?
Is that?
It's not?
Speaker 1 (44:54):
it's not I always say that I tell people to immerse
themselves, and the only reasonwhen I said that you know they
get fearful is because they maysee one person from that
particular community talkingcrazy online right behavior,
unfavorable, undesirablebehavior, and they assume would
all operate like that.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
So correct and this is why most of our youth don't
want to go to these ceremonies,and I feel like if most of these
, most of these youth go tothese ceremonies, they will have
a different thinking mindset soI have questions for you.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
How long have you been practicing this for?
Speaker 2 (45:31):
let me see, uh, when you say practice.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
The spiritual side of it you learn.
You're exposed to the Garafinaculture from your household,
from young right.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Okay, not really.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Not really.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
So my grandmother was Jehovah's Witness.
We didn't do any, we didn'tcelebrate nothing.
My mom would celebrate.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
I was listen, I wasn't there.
I left at 14.
Listen.
My mom had me in there too.
From ages 8 to 14 and.
I was at the Kingdom Hall ifany of them see this video that
remember me at 14 I got up, Igave a testimony and I told them
the sacred three letters, smd,and I was kicked out, but anyway
(46:20):
but because I find it very.
There was a lot of crazinesstaking place in there that I
couldn't fathom.
And, lo and behold, nobodyplayed with me.
Let's get it clear MikeyFeather did not get tickled in
there at all because somebodywould have DIE'd, but that
(46:43):
didn't happen.
But I was seeing funny stylestuff taking place.
You know what I'm saying.
I couldn't fathom that and mythirst for knowledge from what
my father instilled for me wasalways made me rebellious,
because I felt like you can'tconfine God into a bubble.
You know what I'm saying.
God is everywhere.
God is your word, god is theair, the rock.
(47:05):
You see Everything you see.
The next person you see is aGod in them, he or she you
understand.
So you can't.
You can't contain God.
It's impossible to contain God.
You understand A concept of God, even if you're saying the
correct name term, god.
You just can't contain thehigher power.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Right.
You feel it.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
So I'm with you.
So let's get back to that.
What's your experience as a JW?
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yeah, horrible.
We couldn't celebrate anything.
So after my parents passed away, my grandmother took over and
she made sure we go to thesemeetings.
I couldn't celebrate no partiesor nothing.
Meetings.
I couldn't have no, celebrate,no parties or nothing.
But before my parents passedaway I celebrated every holiday
(47:59):
that you can think about as achild.
So that was shattered.
And here goes my grandmotherwith Jehovah's Witness and she
passed away.
So I started experiencingfeeling stuff at a young age
that's how it starts feeling andit was just like ew, like who?
(48:23):
what is this?
And even if I wanted to asksomebody, they would have just
said oh, you need therapy,you're going crazy.
So I kept my mouth shut.
I suppressed, suppressed myself.
I would mm-mm.
I'm not saying anything.
So I went through that and Ididn't know what it was.
And so I got.
(48:44):
They took me to a Santera.
She was Puerto Rican and sheread me and I'm like how you
know that?
And I said how you know that?
And she was like there's thesepeople here, there's people here
and I see this and I see that,and you're not letting them go.
(49:06):
And I'm like how am I notletting them go?
When you think about them allthe time, I'm like what the heck
is going on, why you know this.
So that's when everythingstarted opening.
It's like, you know, alice inwonderland what age was?
this 11 12.
Yeah, around there around 11 12.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Um, I couldn't talk to anybody, but in your dream um
seeing things in the corner ofyour eyes, but I'm going to take
it to a something In yourdreams, very vivid, seeing
things in the corner of youreyes, black shadows.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
I couldn't sleep at night.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Yeah, people come up to you talking to you, I don't
know where, for no reason, like,who are you?
No, I'm telling listen becauseI.
You know my mom.
She was always into this stuff,but I don't know why.
I think because my older sisteralways swayed towards more
organized stuff.
My mom would try to follow that.
(50:05):
Like I want them to be.
You know, I don't want themimmersed in that, but my father
used to be the one like no, sothat's where they would have
their conflict at.
You know my father's like Idon't want them to be religious,
I just want them to be free toknow what the world is.
My mom was more like yeah, Ilike this stuff, but I just want
to keep them away from it.
But then, as I got older, whenthings start happening, I
(50:29):
understand why.
Because you know, sometimesparents do certain things and
they don't think that it will berevealed to the child and I'm
like, uh huh, that's why you washiding from me.
You kept this from me right.
Started at three for me and thenext time again was ten and you
know the same thing.
(50:49):
I think my son is not.
You know, something's wrongwith him.
And then you know I'm going tokeep it real.
I'm'm gonna be very uncandid onthis platform please do be free
of course, of course.
I'm free.
I have nothing to hide.
I don't care who listen youjudge your mother but anyway um
straight up.
Um, I, I went through the wholeprocess, you know, trying to
(51:12):
take me to see people and allthat.
My mom mom tried to get metested.
They're like nothing's wrongwith him, just like a little
behavior or stuff.
He's just hyper.
But you know there's nothingwrong with him.
So she finally decided to gosee somebody and they said, yeah
, he's they trying tocommunicate with him and by you
trying to put them in religion,it's not going to work, he's not
(51:34):
going to stay.
This is why I'm just sorebellious in nature.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
You can tell me don't do that, You're going to get
hurt.
I'm running towards the danger.
I'm running towards it Like, oh, they shooting over there.
Yeah, let me run over there Seewhat happens.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
I want to see what's going on.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Yes, yeah, like very death-defying Now, death defying
and I, that's something.
Now that I'm I'm 41, I gotta becareful, I gotta slow down,
like you know what.
Let me just slow down with that, but it's still in me.
But I understand what you'resaying, because I went through
that process and things was justhappening.
I couldn't explain it, so I satdown with my late uncle.
May he rest in peace and he'stelling me certain things I was
(52:11):
like why only me?
My mother has four children.
Why is why only me?
My mother has four children.
Why is it only me that'sdealing with this stuff?
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
You know.
So that's another show, that'sanother topic.
For those who want to know more, I'll let them, I'll give them
more, you know, walk intoMikey's story, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm the only one out of my
siblings, because there's fiveof us and I'm straight down the
middle, but I'm not sure I know.
My brother had an experience.
He had called me crying.
He goes yo.
I saw calm down and you'regoing speak to me calmly, and he
(53:00):
was crying.
He was like I'm not supposed tobe drinking.
I'm not supposed to.
I'm like you don't even drink.
What made you want to drinkstuff like that?
or cigar you like, I need acigar yes, because I don't,
because my brother does not likeliquor, does not like liquor at
all, but that day he had drunkum hennessy and I think he
(53:22):
indulged in it and the fact thathe was drinking like water.
It came to the point where hejust saw people.
He happened to see my mom areyou here?
Speaker 1 (53:33):
you see us talking this for those who are going to
watch, listen to this show.
Those who are not exposed tothis type of culture or
understanding or practice willassume that, oh, this is
fairytale make-believe.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Do some research.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
This is real stuff, this is real stuff.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
I'll take you to a ceremony if ever.
If anyone ever wanted realstuff, I'll take you to a
ceremony if ever anyone everwanted to go, you'll see some
things that you can't fathomwith the human mind, that the
human body can actually do.
You'll see people swallowraisins.
Speaker 2 (54:03):
Oh my gosh, I've seen a little girl.
Yep, I've seen a little girlwith my own beautiful eyes.
I was at a ceremony, at theGoof she drank eight bottles of
beer and I said it was like it'snot her, it's not her, it's her
(54:25):
grandmother.
That's in her.
She's been thirsty and nobodyput a bottle of beer for her.
She's thirsty and I'm likethat's when I got to answer.
You know, got to understandabout that, even the
spirituality and all this stuff.
That's what I saw to.
You know, got to understandabout that, even the
spirituality and all this stuff.
That's what I saw.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
This is real I don't care what anybody say.
Oh man, you know what.
That's for another show wherewe could go deep.
No problem, we got it becausethere's a lot to unpack.
And for this question righthere the last one how are
spiritual gifts identified inindividuals?
Speaker 2 (54:59):
It depends on the individual.
Some come, everybody'sdifferent.
I look at spirituality and Ithink one of the boys had
explained to me that when youlook at spirituality, look at it
as a hospital.
There's, each doctor has theirspecialty, and that's how
spirituality is like.
(55:20):
There's there's a doctor foreyes, for the nose, for the
mouth, for the stomach, for thebreasts, for the back.
You have those people there andthat's how God, even a
spiritual, that's howspirituality is in general, and
if we can all work together inthis hospital without no problem
and you stay in your position,we're good to go things will.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
You can move mountains like that with unity.
Yes, that is so beautiful, man,just like.
This is my like first time everhearing about the garaf.
Like I followed you, but I'mlike yo.
There's something about thisculture that's beautiful,
Because I see like littlesnippets here and there of you
know the breaking of the herbsLike for like baths and healing
(56:07):
and stuff like that.
I'm like this is so beautiful.
It's the same thing across thediaspora and business
communities, but we seem tobecome.
we're divided because we see itas like I'm from this nation,
you're from that nation, I speakthis language, you speak that
language, but it's the samestory.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
You know what I think divides us.
I heard it somewhere, but I'mrepeating it because I feel like
it's true.
I'm going to tell you what mygrandmother told me the thing
that's dividing us is theseflags.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
I'm going to just put it out there the things we're
separated by water.
We're all the same people.
Well, that's what mygrandmother said the only thing
that's separating us is thebodies of water.
What's separating us is theflags.
What's keeping us separated isbodies of water.
What's separating us is theflags.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
What's keeping us separate is bodies of water,
period and religion.
Speaker 2 (57:00):
And religion.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
I'm not bashing.
I might be speaking in thispodcast.
I am not bashing religion.
I'm not here to do that,because I'm not going to impinge
or infringe upon nobody'sfreedom to do what they want to
do.
Do believe what they want tobelieve your theology whatsoever
but don't infringe upon otherpeople because you don't have
understanding and you could beMuslim, catholic.
(57:25):
Whatever the case may be, I'mgoing to respect you and see you
first as a human being, notyour religion.
So exactly let's put that asideand I want to say, martine, it
was a pleasure, my sister, thepleasure you finally did it.
We got to have you come.
You got to come back to getmore into the spiritual side and
(57:47):
again, with respect, withnothing that's going to, you
know, violate the conditions.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
I don't want to.
I don't want to go in depthwith this and then just the
basics, you know and to give usmore enlightenment, more
education about the Garifunapeople cool to our listeners,
don't forget to comment, like,share, subscribe, super chat.
And before we get out of here,where can the people find you?
Speaker 2 (58:18):
TikTok and Instagram.
Yeah, as Garifuna Warriors.
Speaker 1 (58:23):
Garifuna Warriors.
You hear that my people.
This is NYP Mikey Fever.
I appreciate you guys forcoming out To the haters.
You take this with you andwe're out All right oh gosh
First To the haters.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
you take this with you and we're out All right
Peace, oh gosh Pervs.
peace world how you doing.
It's your brother, mikey fever.
Miss you all.
Welcome to another episode ofnyp talk show.
Hope all is well with thebrothers and sisters out there,
our listeners and our viewers.
Don't forget to comment, like,share, subscribe.
We have super chat and tonightwe have a special guest who will
(00:32):
be giving us some enlightenmentand education about the
Garofina culture and heritage.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcometo Martine of Garifuna.
Warriors Peace.
I'm working this pad out, butit's all good.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Are you shooting me for it?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, I know I should .
I'm bad about that.
You see, it's that Brooklyn man.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
My bad.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
How you doing, Miss Martine.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I am good, how are you?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
All is well.
I'm good In recovery mode, butall good.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
You're healing, you're healing.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Of course, of course.
That's what matters, man, I'mhappy to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Of course, man.
This interview was supposed tohappen long ago, but now we got
it on track.
I know we got to educate longago, but now we got it on track.
I know we got to educate thepeople and we want to know more
about the Garofina culture.
But before we go into that,give us an introduction.
Where are you from?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Okay, my name is Martine.
Everybody knows me as Teenie.
I was born in the bronx, newyork, um boogie down what else,
of course, and um, um, yeah, I'mborn and raised in the bronx.
(02:02):
My family's from honduras.
We are garifuna from hondurasthere's many uh-huh and um.
I I do have family in guatemala, belize, um, everywhere.
I don't have to have a hotel togo to these places because
family will open their doors.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So that's peace right there.
So, being that you was born inthe bronx families from honduras
, you got family in guatemala.
Um, how was your upbringing inthe bronx?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
it was.
I'm gonna be honest, because,um, being raised in a domestic
violence home, um, we tend tokeep everything what happens at
home stays at home.
So it was a little rough.
Um, you know, I have familymembers that you know stuck in
(03:03):
and try to help raise us at ayoung age.
So, but it's, it was a littlerough.
It was a little rough, but whatI can tell you is that I was
fortunate to have parents thattook care of us.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
SPs.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Who were like oh yeah , you was fed with a silver
spoon.
Yeah, we had a lot of stuff.
We had to earn it.
So my childhood was a littlerough as well, but I enjoyed the
moments.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
And when I mean upbringing, as far as being at
your family's from Honduras,like, and you're being born here
, right, correct, that's correct, right.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
You're born here.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
How did you mesh both cultures, Like the american way
of upbringing in you know thehonduras way?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
um, so to be honest, right to be honest, yes, my
parents are from honduras.
However, my dad was mostly withthe puerto ricans.
He did not affiliate himself asa Garifuna male.
He didn't.
I guess he knew he was Garifuna.
He knew, but that was never inthe household.
(04:10):
He did not want us to playpunta at the house, he looked at
it as voodoo music.
My mom, on the other hand, shespoke the language, she knew how
to cook the food, she dancedand she was a visionary, like
(04:31):
she knew what she wanted.
You know, growing up she wassent to this country for school
and she just developed fromthere.
But with the culture she snuckit in little by little, with the
music, the food.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Both parents.
Both parents.
All from Honduras.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Okay, okay, and have you been to Honduras?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So I have been to Honduras.
My first time was in 2010.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Mm-hmm, nice, nice, like.
How did you do the typical likewhen you, coming home, kiss the
ground off the airplane?
I've caught the plane kissingthe ground like I'm home and no,
I did not.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I, it was a culture shock for me because, um, we
never spoke about hond.
The only time we knew aboutHonduras was when we was
behaving bad as kids.
My grandmother or my mother waslike, if you continue behaving
bad, we're going to send you toHonduras, because over there
(05:36):
they're going to discipline youin school.
And I was always afraid ofgoing to Honduras.
I was always afraid of going toHonduras.
So I had to break thatgenerational mental curse where.
Let me just go to Honduras andsee for myself.
And I was like, oh my God, Igot dirt roads, like, oh my God,
you're drinking water out of aplastic bag.
It was a lot.
(05:57):
It was a lot.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I was like really no, no, but not what, let's keep it
real Well.
My family family, that is,they're good, they well off.
I have friends that from othercountries that went to stay with
my family they, they are good.
But the same tactic where youwere used by my parents when I
was misbehaving, I'm gonna sendyou to haiti and you're gonna
see what they go through andstuff like that.
(06:19):
That happens when my cousinshouts my cousin real, they sent
them to to Haiti.
The funny thing is I rememberwhen my mom and my pops tried to
get a ticket to send me outthere.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I must have been like 12, 13.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I ran away from home.
They didn't see me in two days.
You're going to lose thatticket, yeah.
That money you paid, you'regoing to lose, and I made sure
they lost it.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
It's not going to work over here.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Sorry, next time, right.
So what I'm going to do rightthere with you and I'm glad that
you broke it down for us let'sget into some questions about
the Garifuna culture.
Okay, you know what I'm saying.
So we can educate and bringfurther enlightenment for our
viewers and listeners, and maybethey could add on in the
comment section when they catchDriftless episode.
(07:09):
So let's go.
Who are the Garofina people andhow did they migrate?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I mean pardon me, how did they?
Speaker 1 (07:17):
originate.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Got you, I understood .
So we started off with StVincent and the Grenadines.
We had our Garifuna leader, ourleader called chief joseph
southway, paramount chief josephsouthway.
I can't forget that paramountbecause he was super powerful.
Um, we started off there andthen the colonizers came in.
(07:41):
They kicked us out.
The the word that they use isexiled.
I'm going to be straightforward.
They kicked us out of saintvincent.
They put us in an island rockcalled baliso now baliso, I call
it now.
Um, it's a cemetery without thetombstones because they sent us
that.
Yeah, they sent us there tojust perish, to just die, to end
(08:05):
that tribe.
So most of them they were ableto make it out go to Honduras,
guatemala, belize and Nicaragua.
So this is why most of us speakSpanish and most of us speak
English speak Spanish and mostof us speak English.
Belize they speak Englishbecause of their colonizers,
(08:32):
which is the British.
And then in Honduras, you gotthe Spaniards, and so this is
why one country speaks Englishand the other I mean one part of
Garifuna culture, the Garinagopeople speak english and some of
them speak spanish.
There's some that speaks french.
Um, there's some we speak.
We adapt.
(08:52):
We adapt to anything.
If we gotta make our way.
We're gonna.
We're gonna get what we need toget all right, understood.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So you mean to tell me the colonizers came in and
they moved the people into adesolate island that that, where
land was not fertile, theycouldn't cultivate any way of
living, and expect them to dieout?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
correct.
However, I I didn't mentionthis.
We were at war with the British, with the colonizers, for so
many years.
We defeated them.
Okay, we defeated them so manytimes because we wanted to stay
home.
Like, why are you coming intosomebody's house and kick them
out?
Like we're going to put up afight?
So we put up a fight and we wonmajority of the fights until
(09:41):
that last day.
Yeah, that's what they do, soI'm not sure how many years
we've been fighting with theBritish.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
But it was a long time, but the day that they
killed our leader, that was wheneverything went pshh.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
And his name again.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Paramount Chief Joseph Satoyer.
I say Satoyer, st Vincent saysShatoyer.
Different pronunciation, butthe same person.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Got you.
That's peace man, and whatwe're doing here at NYP is that
we like to bring differentcultures so we could change On
this platform is to be incontrol of our own narrative,
and when we say being in control.
It's not to fabricate nothing.
We're going to tell the storylike it is, but in the correct
way, where we don't have toalways be like.
(10:35):
Slavery is our genesis.
That's all we know about you.
You guys are victims.
No, this is you know, show thebeautiful side of our cultures
you know, build that bridge.
So that's what it's about.
So I have a second question foryou, which is what languages do
the Garifuna speak and how arethey preserved today?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So in Honduras they speak Garifuna.
They speak Garifuna, english,spanish, french.
Like I said, wherever they'relocated.
They will adapt and learn thatlanguage, just to survive.
I think most of the Garifunapeople are on survival mode to
this day to get where they needto get.
Yeah, I know, right now inHonduras it's chaos.
(11:22):
It was chaos, it's still chaos.
They're still killing us.
They're still trying to takeour land that belongs to us
there in Honduras, even thoughwe got proof from people that
that's our land, but they'restill trying to take it away
from us.
So it's still a battle.
It's still a battle,unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Can you give an example of the dialect that's
spoken?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
in.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Honduras of the Garifuna language.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, oh, thank you, because I was not going to put a
post.
So we have one that says goodmorning, which is Bwiti Binafi,
good afternoon Bwiti Rambawayu,and we have good night.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I got.
You see, now I'm a pro rightnow I know the language.
Now that's it.
That's all I needed.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I'm straight those are the important.
Those are the important ones.
So.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I respect that.
How did the Garifuna peoplealright, we already got that,
you know.
How did the Garifuna peoplealright, we already got that.
You know how did the Garifunapeople arrive in Central America
from St Vincent and youbasically went through that, how
they were exiled to an island.
Yeah, what role does drummingplay in the Garifuna music and
(12:43):
spirituality?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
a huge part without, without our drums, and I call
them portal openers.
There's it's like how can I sayit?
You know, when you're making acertain ingredient, is that one
important ingredient that'smissing?
That's the Garifuna drum forGarifuna people Like you have to
(13:10):
have Garifuna drums in anyevent.
If it's a Garifuna event, justmake sure you just have those
drums.
When it comes to spirituality,we normally play the drums.
We have different genres in ourcommunity, I mean in our
community, in our music, we havea whole bunch and in those
(13:32):
genres we have different dancesthat have different meanings.
When there's an ancestralceremony, there's a rhythm for
that.
There's a rhythm for that.
There's a rhythm for that,along with songs oh, really so
like.
So basically, the drums is thepulse of the people's, the
(13:53):
heartbeat, the backbone thatkeeps it going any other
instruments are utilized so wehave the maracas, we have the
conch shell um we normally weuse the turtle shell or the
cowbell okay, it's very similarto many other cultures out there
(14:14):
oh yeah, oh yeah that's cool,that's dope.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
What are some traditional garifuna dances and
what do they symbolize?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Okay, so we have the most important one and most
popular one, which is Punta.
Punta is one of our many danceswhere, back in the days, when
somebody passed away becausePunta is is is a is a dance,
it's a a call it the ritualdance.
Where, when somebody passedaway because punta is a dance, I
(14:46):
call it a ritual dance.
Where, when somebody passesaway, they would play punta and
a male and a female obviously amarried couple would have to
dance.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Really.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And, yeah, married couple have to dance and there
will be a candle there, whethera candle or the body that's
present, the deceased person,that male and that female, have
to dance and they have toreplace that soul that passed
away.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
That makes sense.
I'm following along.
I'm following along, okay.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
So basically they have to have a baby to replace
that soul, so that soul can comesomewhere else or go into that
baby.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Got you, I got you.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I call it the circle of life, literally.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
No, that's what it symbolizes, because after the
dancing they got to go Mm-hmm,talk to me and do adult things
to reproduce.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Of course, like I have to dumb it down for my kids
, because my kids meetingstudents when I teach is a
circle of life.
A man and a woman have to makea baby to replace the person
that passed away.
Call it the circle of life.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
I got you.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
And then we have one other one, also known as Mascaro
, also known as Junko Nu.
It's the Garifuna Warrior Dance.
It's a dance to basically trickthe colonizers.
So history has it because ChiefJoseph Satie was super
(16:22):
intelligent and super strategic.
Because Chief Joseph Satie wassuper intelligent and super
strategic, there's part of ourhistory where Barauda, who was
his main wife, because he hadmany wives, barauda was very,
very fed up and the mostimportant line that she says you
(16:44):
wear my skirt and I wear yourpants, it gave them.
Oh, because history has it thatyou know, when our Garifuna men
will go fishing or go out thehouse to go do something, the
women will stay in the house,either cook, clean X, y and Z.
The colonizers will come intothe house to take advantage of
(17:06):
the women, of course.
So what Satoye did was put theskirt on, stood in the house,
cleaned, cooked all that stuffto trick the enemy.
So when the enemy went in thereand tried to do what he
normally did to women, he foundhimself with the men and that's
how they were able to beat thecolonizers in that form they're
(17:29):
very smart strategy right hereyes, yes.
So it's when we see the garifrom our males now, when they're
dancing gari from um, they weredressed as women, with skirts,
nice um, a blouse and a mask andcolorful ribbons and all that
stuff.
So that's the warrior dance.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I got you.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And then we have gunche, which is more for like a
formal dance.
It's more of a quadrille dance.
I don't know if you've everseen.
You've seen Bridgerton, right?
I don't know if you've heard ofit.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Can you repeat that?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Bridgerton.
It's one of those Netflixmovies.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
No, no, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Okay, so you know about the royal family.
They will have a dance andit'll be like couples, and then
you'll have to switch.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Oh, okay, mm-hmm, and it'll be like couples, and then
you'll have to switch oh, okay,we have a dance like that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
It's called gun che.
Um, yeah, that's another, adifferent rhythm as well.
It's a formal dance.
It's like when you go to a gala, this is the dance you would do
yeah, I've seen.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I've seen.
I've been to galas, but notwhere they perform that.
But I've seen other functionsthat do it, which might be odd,
but I didn't know.
There was more of a meaningbehind it.
But now I understand.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Oh, yeah, it is, it definitely is.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I got you with that.
So how is ancestor venerationpracticed in the Garifuna
spirituality veneration practicein the?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Garifuna spirituality .
So one thing about Garifunapeople we're very ancestral.
Basically, we have ceremonies.
It's called the gu.
This is where both worlds meet.
In the ceremony we normally wealways have drums, always with a
(19:30):
rhythm.
We are not allowed to wearblack because it attracts
negativity.
So, and then there's always abouye.
There Bouye is a high priestessthat's making sure that
everything is in control andthey need to do what they need
to do.
(19:50):
We normally I keep sayingnormally, because we do we put
food out, Because when there'slike a bunch of families
together, they're coming withtheir ancestors.
When we feed them, there's ahuge table there.
(20:10):
We put whatever those familymembers bring, whether it's
fruits, candy, their favoritefood, their favorite drink.
If you don't put a candle,you're more than welcome to put
a candle.
Whatever you want to bring,you're more than welcome to put
a candle.
Whatever you want to bring,you're more than welcome to put
at the table.
Gotcha, Of course, there'ssongs that go with them.
(20:30):
During that ceremony we'rewearing uniforms, Really A
specific color.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Specific pattern For that ceremony Can you get into?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
details of that pattern.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
It's normally checkered.
Sometimes it's regular colors,it's not patterns Skirts for
women.
Yeah, dashiki for men, likeregular colors, is not patterns
Skirts for women.
Dashiki for men.
You have to have your scarf onto protect your ori.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
The ori yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
We have to and you don't have to because people be
like, oh, I don't understandanything.
Trust me, you're going to findsomebody that's going to
translate for you, becausemajority of our rizqa is in Gari
Fana and they speak Gari Fanaand some of our messages are in
Gari Fana.
So there's somebody that'sgoing to be translating for you
Because me, me, the person,because I don't understand it, I
(21:37):
don't speak it.
I just know the certain words,important words, I it, I just
know the certain words,important words.
I tend to be like what she said, what happened?
Because everybody's like, oh,why?
And I'm like I want to ooh-ahtoo, what's going on?
So, with that spiritualceremony, it sums up a lot of
(22:00):
stuff.
Let's say, you and I got a beefand we go to the ceremony.
The ancestors are going to makesure that we're going to squash
that beef right there.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Really.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yep, and if you don't get to act together, there's
consequences.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I like that.
So it's community-based.
That's what I noticed with alot of these spiritual practices
the people that really followit to its core.
It's community-based.
I don't know what they're doingnow online or in the physical,
where they constantly arebickering with each other, and
I'm going to do this to thisperson, I'm going to do such and
that I don't agree with you.
(22:38):
It's important to have theelders present to keep the
unification, because I don'tknow what's going on.
It's important to have theelders present to keep the
unification because I don't knowwhat's going on.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
It's a double-edged sword.
It's a double-edged swordbecause sometimes our elders
don't want to teach the youngones and there's the young ones
that don't want to learn fromthe elders.
There's that friction rightthere and there's that gap that
needs to be filled, becausewe're going to be elders soon
and we need to teach the nextgeneration.
(23:06):
So it's, it's, it's been, it'sa little bit of a challenge the
culture basically dies outbecause the generational gap,
egos, are involved.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
I don't want to hear from you, and you know the
younger is the same what youfelt.
That's why we still in thisposition, the youngest feeling,
that feeling that we're going tobreak the curse Instead of
coming together and learningfrom the errors you know that's
across the board in dealing withso-called Black or Indigenous
African people.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
All right.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I have.
One is what is the significanceof cassava in Garifuna cuisine
and culture, also known asmoniok, which we do say in
Creole as well?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
what do you call it?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
moniok moniok.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
We call it ereba.
That's in Garifuna, ereba, ahuge significance, it's huge.
We snack on it like we're boredor whatever.
We want to snack on something,we eat it and whatnot.
But that was our main, one ofour main dishes cassava.
We do um porridge with it.
We do many dishes with it.
(24:17):
I just can't name it on top ofour hat, my head, but I know
it's a porridge.
We call it at allol inGarifuna's Adulu.
We take the starch from it andwe make atol the porridge.
I know that for a fact.
We do a lot of stuff.
We boil it, we fry it, we doeverything with it.
(24:38):
We make a salad out of it.
We just we get creative becausewe get bored.
So we get creative with Ereba.
But cassava is our main one ofour thing.
We eat it with our machuca,joduto or jodut, depending where
you're at.
We eat it with the soup.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
What is machuca?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
So machuca is a coconut-based soup with seafood
in it.
You got your crabs, you gotyour lobsters, you have your um
your shrimps, you have your ofcaracoles, your how you say
caracol caracoles.
Oh my god.
(25:20):
You have that, and then you getyour green and yellow um
plantains and you boil it andthen you mash it, you have your
separate plates um and then youeat it.
It's basically like fufu um.
Back in the days we used to eatit with our hands, but now we
eat it with our spoons and fish.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I can't forget the fish, you can either have it
fried, or you can have it inyour soup, making me sound very
hungry right now.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
You better eat that around 12 o'clock pm.
Don't eat that before you go tosleep.
It's a very heavy meal.
You'll be put in a coma.
Yeah, this is why when the menback in the days used to go to
work, they will come home hungryand that will be the main dish.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
They would eat something super happy and then
just go to sleep all right, I'mlooking for a honduras
restaurant and make sure it'sGarifuna.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
You better hope somebody's there, I'd rather you
.
I'll direct you to a Garifunathat will make my checkup for
you.
I wouldn't recommend you to goto a Honduran restaurant for
that.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
All right, I got you.
Appreciate that and this is.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
You know, it's funny, this question right.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Here is what we were speaking about earlier.
How are garifuna oraltraditions used to used to pass
down history and values?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
we did talk to about this.
I think it's it was weak.
When I say weak because thecommunication with the elders
and the youth was never there,remember, and I think we all in
the african diaspora across theboard of course we were never in
(27:11):
grown folks business, and evenif it was, we would get kicked
out because it's none of ourbusiness.
we're too young to evenunderstand, so we never ask
questions.
And even if we did askquestions, it's like what our
business?
We're too young to evenunderstand so we never ask
questions.
And even if we did askquestions, it's like what you
want to know?
That for For what?
Get out of here, go play.
And so we did what our parentstold us to do Go play.
(27:33):
We never cared about guttingfrom the traditions.
Well, me I'm speaking for me.
I don't know about everybodyelse, but for me and my
household.
They didn't teach us that.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
they teach us that we had to learn on our own that is
so messed up it's, and so theelders within the african
diaspora.
It's important to teach theyoung.
You can't have them runningaround here running their head
into the wall or say, oh well, Ihave to learn on my own, so
therefore you gotta go throughthe same process.
No, it's best to catch them andtell them yield and pay heed to
what I'm about to teach you,because I've been down this
(28:04):
route before.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
But you know, again it's at a point where the elders
are afraid to speak to theyouth out of fear because of the
backlash I remember I want totake away from the youth, but a
lot of them they don't have muchinteraction with one another
really, other than the phone, soby the time they're around each
other they don't know how tointeract hold a conversation and
(28:30):
interact, engage people.
They think everything is justthrough social media.
I was able to do this, so youshould accept that, because I'm
doing it in person right.
I know it can't separate thevirtual reality from reality, so
yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
it's hard because, again, like you mentioned,
picking back up for what youjust said, with the technology,
nowadays everybody's like this.
Me in the 80s, 90s, I used togo outside, fall off the trees,
get scars okay, I used to playbasketball.
I used to play.
90s.
I used to go outside, fall offthe trees, get scars Okay, I
used to play basketball.
I used to play manhunt, I usedto play all of that Roller blade
(29:08):
.
We did exercise as kids, likewe just didn't care.
Now these kids, when I went toschool teaching these kids, if
they fall, I need a band-aid.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah, it's crazy.
Or they're watching videos ofother children playing outside
on YouTube.
I'm like that does not makesense, there's no activities for
them.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
There's no activity for them.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
We were creative.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
We were super creative with a lot of stuff.
No, but these kids are notcreative Like.
I remember making up dances.
I don't see these kids makingup dances Now.
They do TikTok and it's like Idon't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
We're dancing right, waving their arms side to side,
and they're like that's a dance.
I don't know, I have no idea.
What is the Dugu ceremony andwhy?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
is it important to important to Garifuna
spirituality?
Speaker 1 (30:06):
That's what I was telling you about.
The dance with the.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
No, the spiritual ceremony is called the Guh.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I'm saying it wrong.
It's the Guh.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
The Guh, it's okay, I'm here to teach and learn.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
It's the Guh, alright , so we got into that.
Yeah, the.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Guh is an to learn.
It's the good.
Yeah, the good is a ancestral,ancestral ceremony where family
gets together.
If there's a message that needsto be said to the family,
whatever we need to listen to itand go by it.
Majority of these, the goodceremonies, is to bring people,
(30:43):
the families, together becausewe've been broken up so long.
Or if somebody has a dream andlet's say in that dream somebody
wants a plate of food.
Okay that person that dreamt iteither makes a plate of food and
(31:03):
give it to that person or tellthe priest this was my dream.
The priest will tell you whatto do now if you don't do it.
That's when stuff startshappening.
Why they make this plate forthis ancestor that asked for a
plate of food when stuff startshappening.
Why they make this play forthis ancestor that acts for the
(31:25):
plate of food.
We're taking you so long, andsome people because of religion,
some people are afraid of it.
Some people they fear it a lot,and I'm talking about my elders
.
Some of them still fear theseceremonies.
They don't know how to moveforward with it.
Versus now, this generation,millennials is like what we
(31:49):
gotta do.
Let's get things done, becauseby the end of the day, I am not
going to get hurt or or getconsequences right here because
of you.
No, let's get this plate offood, let's get this together,
come on, and that's how we work.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
I like that.
See Innovators.
Yes, I got another one for you.
How do Garofina people blendAfrican indigenous and Catholic
spiritual practices?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
If I don't know anything, I'm going to.
If I don't know anything, I'mgoing to say I don't know.
I'm going to tell you what Iknow.
I know Catholic plays a hugerole in the Garifuna community.
They go to church, they do themass Before our Dugu ceremonies.
(32:43):
They have to have a priestblessed or whatever, and then
start the ceremony.
Me personally, because ourancestors didn't have to use
Catholic you know the religionof Catholic to do what they
needed to do.
(33:04):
To be honest, I feel that thisis something.
It's brand new because beforereligion came into play, we
already was doing our stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah.
Just putting it out there.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I know this is going to be some good.
I don't care, but that's thetruth.
Before religion came, we werestill doing our things yeah,
it's like that across the board.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
It's just that we had to hide our deities, our
expression of God, behind theCatholic saints, which that
practice is called synchronicity.
So, and the thing is like.
We want to know what was thepurest form of method that was
used prior to slavery.
So I understand where you'recoming from.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
So because it's my ancestors and that's what they
used to do.
I guess they want to continuethat tradition, having the
priest there, having jesus photothere, having all of that and
it.
It bothers my spirit.
But if this is how they dotheir stuff, we're going to
(34:15):
continue doing their stuff untilsomebody says enough is enough.
This is not not my ancestor.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Johnny Depp.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Negative, negative, bumble cloud.
Yes, I got you Even doing thecross symbol and whatever we
(34:45):
used to pray to the gods fromthe north and east and west, and
you know north, south, east,west.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
We, that was our cause well, you know, if you
look at the unk, that's what youknow the four cardinal points
access points.
You know the four cardinalpoints access points you know
the portals.
Yes, what you about to say.
I know we can't say much onhere, but I got to.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I know Continue.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
YouTube is married with a sensor.
Don't want to hurt nobody'sfeelings.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Okay, sensitive answers.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
I got another one for you.
What training and initiationmust a bullier undergo?
Speaker 2 (35:31):
I don't think there's no training.
To be honest, you think I'd beborn with it.
This is my opinion.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe I'm wrong If my peoplewouldn't have listened.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe I'm wrong If my Garifunapeople wouldn't have Listen.
I'm still learning.
Some of us are born with gifts.
Okay, they're born with gifts,like there's certain gifts
(35:53):
that's passed down fromgeneration to generation.
We there's certain of us thatdream that we see things, we
hear things and whatnot.
And some of us have to gothrough hell in life to come out
like, okay, what's going on?
(36:16):
Some people have to go to abouillie to get counsel, like
what's going on with you know?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
and there's certain steps, what you said they had to
go to a bouillé to get counsel,like what's going on with you
know, and then there's certainsteps what you said.
They had to go through aprocess Bouillé, they had to go
through a process to get counsel.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Counsel.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Counsel oh, okay, apologize, I thought you said
counsel.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
I tend to speak fast, but, yeah, they go to the
Garifite priestess, tell themtheir dream, what's going on,
how they feel, x, y and Z, andsome people tend to be like,
okay, I don't know how to putthis in words, but when it comes
to that, it's a whole process.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I can't really speak about the process.
It's for me, sacred, yeah, no,that's what I was going to say.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
if you can, but just like a what you want to say,
like a general.
Okay, yeah, I can tell you this.
If a person is going throughthat process, they have to be in
isolation, no communicationwith the world whatsoever.
Your phones are taken away,every electronic that you you
have taken away you have to gothrough this alone yeah, you
(37:32):
have to go through this alone.
Yep, nobody can see you.
You cannot be seen.
For the specific days that youare isolated, they cannot see
you any special diets no, notthat I know of, because my
ancestors still ate pork and allthat, like there was no
(37:54):
restrictions or nothing, hey,hey, that's what they used to
eat back in the days, and so youknow things have been changing.
I can tell you that much.
I know I mess with you.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
And to the pork eaters out there.
I'm not trying to offend you,Just pork on my fork.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
You know I'm sorry, but it's the truth.
Okay, you know I'm sorry, butit's the truth I guess now this
generation and most people arelike okay, we can't eat pork,
why?
Because x, y and z.
Granted, I get it, but most ofour ancestors, we had to, and
when we put our offering, porkis in that table don't get me
(38:40):
wrong.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
I see that, listen, in Haitian food.
When people make offerings,certain deities do require pork
and you know, when I go to theseceremonies they be kind of
offering that plate.
I be like, nah, I'm good, butyou know, in my heart I'm there
with you.
You know what I'm saying do youeat?
Speaker 2 (38:55):
now my question to you when you, when they put food
in the plate, do you eat thefood?
Speaker 1 (39:02):
No, here's how it goes.
First, what they do, dependingon the house, from what I have
seen, they put the food on thetable as an offering.
You take a little bit, not fromthe actual plate.
They serve them first,basically, and then you eat
what's left behind.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
What's left behind right.
No no, my question is when theyare discarding the food from
the table, do you eat from theplate?
Speaker 1 (39:30):
the ancestors plate is my question oh, no, no, no,
you usually bring into like thewoods, or something by a tree or
something like that okay, we dothe same thing you do the same
thing too.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Right, do the same thing too, right.
Sometimes and I'm sometimes theperson that puts up.
Let's say, I put a plate there,right.
Let's say, I put a plate ofcookies.
I'm not allowed to eat fromthere.
But you can, Everybody else can, but I'm not.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
That's true, but let me tell you, when I was a child,
I used to tear those cookies upwhen I go by my people's house.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
you know I didn't know any better.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Oh my gosh, put my finger through the cake and, oh
my goodness, a fried piece oflet me see get this is funny,
yeah, but now people are justwaking up.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
It's like like no, don't touch it.
That's the answer.
Say, let them have it, let themhave it, let them have it.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
My mentality back then was I'm hungry too, you
know listen.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
We're going to stop playing.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
I was a child, don't forget me, but I was, because
you know.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
I was like man.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I don't time for this soda ray.
I'm giving that damn soda, Iget it.
Oh my gosh, will I do?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
that now, no, never you must be crazy.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
All right, that makes sense, never.
How are sacred, how are sacredspaces chosen for ceremonies?
Speaker 2 (40:57):
um for ceremonies.
You have to build a debuyabaand it takes a village to help
out.
A debuyaba is a temple houseit's made out of.
Yeah, they help, the wholevillage helps.
This is not just a one-manthing.
They're going to tell you thisis a good happening.
(41:19):
Okay, everybody knows.
Okay, we need help here tobuild this, the good happening.
Okay, everybody knows.
Okay, we need help here tobuild this.
Um, the boyaba, the, the templeso we, we get it.
oh my god, I can't believe I itjust I can't even tell you, but
they help out building this, um,this temple, and you have to
build like a room for the altarReally, and yeah, it's big,
(41:46):
depending on the family andwhatnot, or depending on what
the ancestors want.
I like that there's some sorry,there's some of the girls that
will last a week.
I remember my grandmother wastelling me that there was a girl
that lasted almost two months.
(42:06):
No, two weeks, she told me.
And the thing is, you can'tbathe like that, like you can't
wash your body, like you got tobe there raw Really.
But of course they give youlemon for your underarms and for
your your hot spots.
That's what I call it.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I respect that it's intense.
It's a sacrifice.
Basically, that's all it is.
It's all about sacrificing whatit does.
It's shattering the ego.
It's shattering the ego andalso is building a sense of
community and you're breakingnights.
You're breaking nights.
It's shattering the ego andalso is building a sense of
community.
Yes, you know, you're breakingnights.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
You're breaking nights.
You're breaking nights.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
I think I'll be a bad member, cause I'd like to take
them to that river.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
Good luck on that.
Good luck on that.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
I respect it, though I respect it.
So what challenges doesGarofino spirituality face in
the modern world?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
whew, from what I've seen, um, not a lot of our
people talk about gutting fromthe spirit, spirituality not a
lot.
If we do talk about it, it'sout of fear or threatening
people.
Unfortunately, that's what Isee.
Yeah, that's what I see.
(43:29):
Now, because we have technology, um, we want to videotape it,
you know.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Yeah, that's something across the board.
Don't get it Across thediaspora.
I think it's the youngergeneration and some elders as
well.
They're pretty foolish withtheir spiritual practice.
They're online and you know, Idon't know if they're joking or
not, but they just be talkingthat I'm going to do this and
that to you, and you know um.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
It's unfortunate, though, is the way of thinking
where I think our youth.
They're very scared of guttingfrom spirituality, like they
don't know what to expectbecause they just heard always
negative about it.
And me, because I'm, I'm onTikTok and whatnot, I tend to
(44:19):
like look, you don't have to beafraid of this, this is what you
have to do, don't worry aboutit, everything is fine.
This is.
You're going to get messages.
You know.
If you do it wrong, you'regoing to get corrected.
You know, when it comes to alot of stuff.
So I tend to let them unlearnthe effery, because what they
(44:47):
learned was fear, don't go there.
I don't believe in that.
It's demonic.
Is this?
Is that?
It's not?
Speaker 1 (44:54):
it's not I always say that I tell people to immerse
themselves, and the only reasonwhen I said that you know they
get fearful is because they maysee one person from that
particular community talkingcrazy online right behavior,
unfavorable, undesirablebehavior, and they assume would
all operate like that.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
So correct and this is why most of our youth don't
want to go to these ceremonies,and I feel like if most of these
, most of these youth go tothese ceremonies, they will have
a different thinking mindset soI have questions for you.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
How long have you been practicing this for?
Speaker 2 (45:31):
let me see, uh, when you say practice.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
The spiritual side of it you learn.
You're exposed to the Garafinaculture from your household,
from young right.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Okay, not really.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Not really.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
So my grandmother was Jehovah's Witness.
We didn't do any, we didn'tcelebrate nothing.
My mom would celebrate.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
I was listen, I wasn't there.
I left at 14.
Listen.
My mom had me in there too.
From ages 8 to 14 and.
I was at the Kingdom Hall ifany of them see this video that
remember me at 14 I got up, Igave a testimony and I told them
the sacred three letters, smd,and I was kicked out, but anyway
(46:20):
but because I find it very.
There was a lot of crazinesstaking place in there that I
couldn't fathom.
And, lo and behold, nobodyplayed with me.
Let's get it clear MikeyFeather did not get tickled in
there at all because somebodywould have DIE'd, but that
(46:43):
didn't happen.
But I was seeing funny stylestuff taking place.
You know what I'm saying.
I couldn't fathom that and mythirst for knowledge from what
my father instilled for me wasalways made me rebellious,
because I felt like you can'tconfine God into a bubble.
You know what I'm saying.
God is everywhere.
God is your word, god is theair, the rock.
(47:05):
You see Everything you see.
The next person you see is aGod in them, he or she you
understand.
So you can't.
You can't contain God.
It's impossible to contain God.
You understand A concept of God, even if you're saying the
correct name term, god.
You just can't contain thehigher power.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Right.
You feel it.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
So I'm with you.
So let's get back to that.
What's your experience as a JW?
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yeah, horrible.
We couldn't celebrate anything.
So after my parents passed away, my grandmother took over and
she made sure we go to thesemeetings.
I couldn't celebrate no partiesor nothing.
Meetings.
I couldn't have no, celebrate,no parties or nothing.
But before my parents passedaway I celebrated every holiday
(47:59):
that you can think about as achild.
So that was shattered.
And here goes my grandmotherwith Jehovah's Witness and she
passed away.
So I started experiencingfeeling stuff at a young age
that's how it starts feeling andit was just like ew, like who?
(48:23):
what is this?
And even if I wanted to asksomebody, they would have just
said oh, you need therapy,you're going crazy.
So I kept my mouth shut.
I suppressed, suppressed myself.
I would mm-mm.
I'm not saying anything.
So I went through that and Ididn't know what it was.
And so I got.
(48:44):
They took me to a Santera.
She was Puerto Rican and sheread me and I'm like how you
know that?
And I said how you know that?
And she was like there's thesepeople here, there's people here
and I see this and I see that,and you're not letting them go.
(49:06):
And I'm like how am I notletting them go?
When you think about them allthe time, I'm like what the heck
is going on, why you know this.
So that's when everythingstarted opening.
It's like, you know, alice inwonderland what age was?
this 11 12.
Yeah, around there around 11 12.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Um, I couldn't talk to anybody, but in your dream um
seeing things in the corner ofyour eyes, but I'm going to take
it to a something In yourdreams, very vivid, seeing
things in the corner of youreyes, black shadows.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
I couldn't sleep at night.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Yeah, people come up to you talking to you, I don't
know where, for no reason, like,who are you?
No, I'm telling listen becauseI.
You know my mom.
She was always into this stuff,but I don't know why.
I think because my older sisteralways swayed towards more
organized stuff.
My mom would try to follow that.
(50:05):
Like I want them to be.
You know, I don't want themimmersed in that, but my father
used to be the one like no, sothat's where they would have
their conflict at.
You know my father's like Idon't want them to be religious,
I just want them to be free toknow what the world is.
My mom was more like yeah, Ilike this stuff, but I just want
to keep them away from it.
But then, as I got older, whenthings start happening, I
(50:29):
understand why.
Because you know, sometimesparents do certain things and
they don't think that it will berevealed to the child and I'm
like, uh huh, that's why you washiding from me.
You kept this from me right.
Started at three for me and thenext time again was ten and you
know the same thing.
(50:49):
I think my son is not.
You know, something's wrongwith him.
And then you know I'm going tokeep it real.
I'm'm gonna be very uncandid onthis platform please do be free
of course, of course.
I'm free.
I have nothing to hide.
I don't care who listen youjudge your mother but anyway um
straight up.
Um, I, I went through the wholeprocess, you know, trying to
(51:12):
take me to see people and allthat.
My mom mom tried to get metested.
They're like nothing's wrongwith him, just like a little
behavior or stuff.
He's just hyper.
But you know there's nothingwrong with him.
So she finally decided to gosee somebody and they said, yeah
, he's they trying tocommunicate with him and by you
trying to put them in religion,it's not going to work, he's not
(51:34):
going to stay.
This is why I'm just sorebellious in nature.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
You can tell me don't do that, You're going to get
hurt.
I'm running towards the danger.
I'm running towards it Like, oh, they shooting over there.
Yeah, let me run over there Seewhat happens.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
I want to see what's going on.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Yes, yeah, like very death-defying Now, death defying
and I, that's something.
Now that I'm I'm 41, I gotta becareful, I gotta slow down,
like you know what.
Let me just slow down with that, but it's still in me.
But I understand what you'resaying, because I went through
that process and things was justhappening.
I couldn't explain it, so I satdown with my late uncle.
May he rest in peace and he'stelling me certain things I was
(52:11):
like why only me?
My mother has four children.
Why is why only me?
My mother has four children.
Why is it only me that'sdealing with this stuff?
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
You know.
So that's another show, that'sanother topic.
For those who want to know more, I'll let them, I'll give them
more, you know, walk intoMikey's story, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm the only one out of my
siblings, because there's fiveof us and I'm straight down the
middle, but I'm not sure I know.
My brother had an experience.
He had called me crying.
He goes yo.
I saw calm down and you'regoing speak to me calmly, and he
(53:00):
was crying.
He was like I'm not supposed tobe drinking.
I'm not supposed to.
I'm like you don't even drink.
What made you want to drinkstuff like that?
or cigar you like, I need acigar yes, because I don't,
because my brother does not likeliquor, does not like liquor at
all, but that day he had drunkum hennessy and I think he
(53:22):
indulged in it and the fact thathe was drinking like water.
It came to the point where hejust saw people.
He happened to see my mom areyou here?
Speaker 1 (53:33):
you see us talking this for those who are going to
watch, listen to this show.
Those who are not exposed tothis type of culture or
understanding or practice willassume that, oh, this is
fairytale make-believe.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Do some research.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
This is real stuff, this is real stuff.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
I'll take you to a ceremony if ever.
If anyone ever wanted realstuff, I'll take you to a
ceremony if ever anyone everwanted to go, you'll see some
things that you can't fathomwith the human mind, that the
human body can actually do.
You'll see people swallowraisins.
Speaker 2 (54:03):
Oh my gosh, I've seen a little girl.
Yep, I've seen a little girlwith my own beautiful eyes.
I was at a ceremony, at theGoof she drank eight bottles of
beer and I said it was like it'snot her, it's not her, it's her
(54:25):
grandmother.
That's in her.
She's been thirsty and nobodyput a bottle of beer for her.
She's thirsty and I'm likethat's when I got to answer.
You know, got to understandabout that, even the
spirituality and all this stuff.
That's what I saw to.
You know, got to understandabout that, even the
spirituality and all this stuff.
That's what I saw.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
This is real I don't care what anybody say.
Oh man, you know what.
That's for another show wherewe could go deep.
No problem, we got it becausethere's a lot to unpack.
And for this question righthere the last one how are
spiritual gifts identified inindividuals?
Speaker 2 (54:59):
It depends on the individual.
Some come, everybody'sdifferent.
I look at spirituality and Ithink one of the boys had
explained to me that when youlook at spirituality, look at it
as a hospital.
There's, each doctor has theirspecialty, and that's how
spirituality is like.
(55:20):
There's there's a doctor foreyes, for the nose, for the
mouth, for the stomach, for thebreasts, for the back.
You have those people there andthat's how God, even a
spiritual, that's howspirituality is in general, and
if we can all work together inthis hospital without no problem
and you stay in your position,we're good to go things will.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
You can move mountains like that with unity.
Yes, that is so beautiful, man,just like.
This is my like first time everhearing about the garaf.
Like I followed you, but I'mlike yo.
There's something about thisculture that's beautiful,
Because I see like littlesnippets here and there of you
know the breaking of the herbsLike for like baths and healing
(56:07):
and stuff like that.
I'm like this is so beautiful.
It's the same thing across thediaspora and business
communities, but we seem tobecome.
we're divided because we see itas like I'm from this nation,
you're from that nation, I speakthis language, you speak that
language, but it's the samestory.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
You know what I think divides us.
I heard it somewhere, but I'mrepeating it because I feel like
it's true.
I'm going to tell you what mygrandmother told me the thing
that's dividing us is theseflags.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
I'm going to just put it out there the things we're
separated by water.
We're all the same people.
Well, that's what mygrandmother said the only thing
that's separating us is thebodies of water.
What's separating us is theflags.
What's keeping us separated isbodies of water.
What's separating us is theflags.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
What's keeping us separate is bodies of water,
period and religion.
Speaker 2 (57:00):
And religion.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
I'm not bashing.
I might be speaking in thispodcast.
I am not bashing religion.
I'm not here to do that,because I'm not going to impinge
or infringe upon nobody'sfreedom to do what they want to
do.
Do believe what they want tobelieve your theology whatsoever
but don't infringe upon otherpeople because you don't have
understanding and you could beMuslim, catholic.
(57:25):
Whatever the case may be, I'mgoing to respect you and see you
first as a human being, notyour religion.
So exactly let's put that asideand I want to say, martine, it
was a pleasure, my sister, thepleasure you finally did it.
We got to have you come.
You got to come back to getmore into the spiritual side and
(57:47):
again, with respect, withnothing that's going to, you
know, violate the conditions.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
I don't want to.
I don't want to go in depthwith this and then just the
basics, you know and to give usmore enlightenment, more
education about the Garifunapeople cool to our listeners,
don't forget to comment, like,share, subscribe, super chat.
And before we get out of here,where can the people find you?
Speaker 2 (58:18):
TikTok and Instagram.
Yeah, as Garifuna Warriors.
Speaker 1 (58:23):
Garifuna Warriors.
You hear that my people.
This is NYP Mikey Fever.
I appreciate you guys forcoming out To the haters.
You take this with you andwe're out All right oh gosh
First To the haters.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
you take this with you and we're out All right
Peace, oh gosh Pervs.
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