September 19, 2025 • 55 mins
Stepping into the realm of ancient wisdom, Baba Victor brings 45 years of experience as a Lukumi priest to this profound conversation about Santeria, Orisha traditions, and spiritual authenticity. Born and raised in Chicago to Mexican parents, Victor shares his remarkable journey from receiving his first sacred necklaces at eight years old to becoming a respected elder in a tradition that once operated in complete secrecy.
The discussion unveils the fascinating origins of Santeria—how enslaved Yoruba people preserved their spiritual practices by hiding them behind Catholic saints during the transatlantic slave trade. With remarkable clarity, Baba Victor explains the theology of this often misunderstood tradition, from Olodumare (the supreme creator) to the various Orishas who serve as divine intermediaries rather than gods themselves. His breakdown of spiritual concepts like Odu (your spiritual destiny pattern) challenges common misconceptions about what it means to be a "child" of particular Orishas.
Perhaps most valuable is Baba Victor's guidance on navigating authentic spiritual practice in an age of increasing commercialization. He offers three powerful criteria for choosing spiritual guides: seek reputation over location, character over titles, and the ability to communicate spiritual wisdom over merely speaking ritual languages. His passionate advocacy for practicing openly rather than hiding one's spiritual identity reflects a transformation from a tradition born in secrecy to one that can now proudly share its profound wisdom with the world.
Whether you're a curious newcomer or experienced practitioner, this conversation offers rare insights into divination practices, sacred altar creation, spiritual possession, and the ethical foundations of Orisha traditions. Connect with Baba Victor at gotbaba.org or on social media to continue learning from his accessible, no-nonsense approach to spiritual wisdom.
NYPTALKSHOW EP.1 HOSTED BY RON BROWNLMT & MIKEY FEVER
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
peace, peace, peace, world.
How you doing this, yourbrother mikey fever?
You know I'm saying peace ofthe world.
Hope everyone had a great day.
Peace of the gods, peace to theearth.
Peace to the hebrews.
Salam alaikum to my islamicpeople.
I will bow to my haitian buddhapractice practice practitioners
, you know.
Salam alaikum to the apollopeople.
(00:37):
You see I'm butchering that,forgive me.
Peace to the power community.
Peace to the santeria, the ifapeople, bendy, sean and all that
you know, of course.
You know, guys gotta show loveto the atrs man.
Okay, you know, we sittingthere, the tone right.
We got big brother baba victorin the building that's me.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Thank you for having me that's all love, my brother.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
You know we had to set the tone right, get the
vibes going.
I hear it.
I hear it.
This music man is very relaxing.
Tell the story.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
That's it.
That's what music does man.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Definitely.
So we're gonna tone that outright now and we're gonna get
into this out right now andwe're going to get into this, oh
man.
So, Baba Victor, brother, it'sa pleasure to have you on here.
Welcome to the NYP platform.
You know, introducing you tothe people.
We'd like to know a little moreabout you, Baba Victor.
So where do you hail from?
Where are you coming from,brother?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
All right man, I'm located, born and raised in
Chicago, Midwest.
All right man, I'm located,born and raised in Chicago,
midwest.
Yeah, chi-town, my whole lifebeen in Chicago.
But you know, I've been as faras the community of Orisha, I've
been exposed to some of the Ialways call it the Mecca, the
three Meccas of Lukumi, which isMiami, new York and Chicago,
(02:03):
some of the major cities.
You know you can includeAtlanta in there, but you know
that's growing up.
Everybody was associated withNew York and Florida and in the
community we always mingled.
You know, we alwaysinterchanged, we always traveled
, we always had that connectionas far as the community, because
(02:24):
growing up in the community,man, it was small in chicago, so
you had a, you had to branchout to to some of the elders
that you needed and sometimes wehad to like resource them out
and have people come in.
But, um, I've been in this for,uh, 45 years in the tradition
of of or and Lukumi 45 years, 45years I've been initiated
(02:50):
Shango.
I've been initiated Shango foralmost 30 years, maybe about 28
years, and Baba Lawu priest for23 years.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Mvp huh I don't know about and Baba Lawu priest for
23 years, MVP huh I don't knowabout MVP, but I consider myself
an elder.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And the other good thing is being in it for so long
, I've seen the transitions,I've seen the changes, man, I've
seen all the evolutions, Ithink, and that's why I always
say man, I'm a good reference tospeak on it, because I've been
in it for so long and not justbeen initiated and just been
about my life Like I've been,like I've been in the streets.
(03:32):
You know I've been in thetrenches with this religion when
it was like you had to hideeverything and you know you had
to worry about police busting in.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
So before we go into that, I'd like to know more.
How did you get introduced intothis?
Give us a little bit about yourbackground.
Your childhood years Were youraised religious organized
religion.
As far as Christian, yeah, Iwas definitely raised really
strong Lutheran.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Christian, really strong Lutheran Christian.
But I'm second generationpriest in this tradition of
Arisha.
My father got initiated when Iwas about eight years old.
He had got introduced to mygodmother, which is his
godmother helped him out withsome things, performed some
(04:21):
small miracles for us.
Someone had introduced him whenhe was going through some
trouble.
You know how it goes.
It's like, hey, I know thislady, she's helping me out.
It just got to him.
He got out of some legal stuff.
It was like a miraculous thing.
He was flabbergasted by thepower of it.
(04:42):
This is what you know.
In the in the 1980, you knowwhat I'm saying.
So it's like you really didn'thear about it.
So he got into it, gotinitiated.
He got me and my sister ournecklaces.
We took it from there and andand from him.
(05:03):
When I was about 15, you knowhe allowed us to take it as far
as we wanted to.
So that's when I started makingdecisions on my own.
I got my warriors, you know, Igot my.
That's the one thing he got mein my neck.
This is when I was about eight,so about 15, I got my warriors
about 20.
I was initiated, you know, and,and I just moved on, you know,
(05:23):
continuing to follow.
This was my path, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So I have a question is nationality background?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, I'm Mexican, but my nationality is American.
My ethnic background is, yeah,is Mexican.
You know, my family is 400Mexican.
I'm not Cuban, not Puerto Rican.
I'm Mexican, chicano.
You know what?
I'm not Cuban, I'm Puerto Rican, I'm Mexican, I'm Chicano.
You know what I'm saying?
I don't even.
Here's the thing about me.
Here's why I'm a good referencetoo, because I don't even speak
fluent Spanish.
(05:54):
You know what I mean?
Yeah, both my parents werebilingual, but you know, when
they speak both languages, theyraised us.
I had to learn Spanish on myown you, I'm my own.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
You know what I mean.
It's like I look at the samething too, with the Creole
background in English, and soyou know they speak Creole.
I respond in English, but Iunderstand it.
It's like it's like I'm a dog,I don't speak, I understand.
I'm like, oh yeah, I shoot backthe English at you.
They look at me like what'sgoing?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
on man that was rough man in this community.
I gotta tell you somethinggrowing up in in Santa Rio is
what it was called back then.
Um it, it was primarily spanish.
You know what I mean and and itwas always spoken in spanish.
You know readings for you wasdone in spanish.
You don't even know what'sgoing on.
You know I had to be like yo,what's he asking?
(06:38):
What's happening?
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
It was tough that's dope man, but yo look, look at
it, look it, look at your time,your tenure in there Like you've
been there 45 years.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
No excuses, man.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
You pushed yourself, you know.
So we're going to get into somequestions, like as far as
we're're spoon feeding ourlisteners and our viewers we
only, you know, asking questionsfor the sake of you know,
educational purposes, to make itunderstandable for them, in
(07:12):
case him or her may one day, youknow, have a inquiry or a
desire to get initiated.
So we're going to ask somebasic questions, you, you know
I'm done with that man.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
My whole platform too .
I've changed it to um, to justfor beginners.
Man, I I'm over the drama andall the everybody who, who knows
more and everything.
I'm like you know what.
Let me step out of that.
I ain't trying to be a part ofthat.
I'm just gonna help out thosewho want to learn.
I call it the newbies.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, a lot of it is ego.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
You know, sometimes when people get caught up in
these, practices yeah, they likeit, boosted they.
They develop a complex wherethey feel like they are the
authoritative figure of such andsuch practices.
And it's weird, man, what?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
can you say I got a lot on that.
I can speak on both of them.
Go ahead, I'm down withwhatever you want to ask me you
asked me to be here, so becareful what you ask for my man,
listen bro.
Listen, you don't say no.
I don't know why you chose me,but I'm going to come with you.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
It's all love.
It's all love man.
Yeah, how did Santeria emergefrom the fusion of Yoruba
traditions and Catholicism inthe Caribbean?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, so you know, we call it the diaspora.
So when the Yoruba practicesvery basic knowledge, most
people know, after the slavetrade, they started
intermingling.
They started Cuba was it was amajor one Brazil, trinidad,
right, and they they weren'tallowed.
(08:47):
So, as you know, they had tohide the religion.
So the religion was born out ofsecrecy.
That's one.
They had to hide the religionand one of the greatest things
that the tradition that we havein the diaspora.
We come from an energy wherethey fought for something, you
know, they believed in somethingand risked death man to them
(09:08):
and to the family.
Let's think about that.
They kept it alive, knowingthat they could die or their
kids can die, for all of us tobe aware of it and practice this
in the diaspora.
Right, and I respect that.
I'm like yo, that's my, that'smy elders, I'm down with my,
with my Lukumi diaspora elders.
So they had to hide thereligion behind catholicism.
That was the oppressed, thatwas the, the tradition that they
(09:31):
had to be, and catholicism hasa lot of saints, okay, so what
they did was, you know, theysynchronized in orisha with the
saint and they had their saintsup there and they were
worshiping the saints a lot.
So that's how you get the termsanteria, which just means the
way of the saints.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
All right, that's all it is.
That's all it is.
It's basic, it's basic man.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
So they saw them because Catholic was in the
church but they didn't reallyhave that many saints up in the
practitioner, you know what Imean.
It was just Jesus Christ, youknow what I mean.
Maybe the church has them, butthey were like all about their
statues in the rooms.
Like yo, they, they'repracticing their Santeria.
I mean they really, they reallybought the same religion, but
it was the Orishas that they wasthere hiding the religion and
secrecy, and that's how it gotfused.
(10:20):
But what happened is, over time, when the freedoms came and
they didn't have to, they canpractice what they wanted.
By then you get two or threegenerations later.
They were just growing up intothe Catholic tradition and they
were practicing both and thenSanteria became a term that was
basically with a little bit ofthe Catholic background infused
with the Orisha tradition.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Got you.
I like that, I like that.
So, as far as the theology andbeliefs, right, right, what is
the nature of Alundamare, thesupreme being in Santeria?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Alright, so the one you know.
I've done some teachings onthis.
As far as what?
Would you consider our religion?
You know our faith.
Is it a monotheistic tradition?
Is it a polytheism?
You know what I mean.
But we do have a supreme being.
So, to answer your question,Olundumare, Olorun and Olofi are
(11:08):
just different names, differenttitles for the one supreme
source, which is the creator,which is, in English terms, God.
So Olojumare is the creator ofthe universe, the creator of the
stars.
There's many differenttranslations for that word.
Yoruba words and a lot of theLukumi and Santeria have a lot
of root words that are in Yoruba, but they sometimes take on
(11:30):
different meanings.
You know what I mean.
Sort of like a Latin root word,but the word can have something
else.
But a lot of the root words ofYoruba are compound words.
So Lujumare, it gives you allthe creator, but it's like a
bunch of things in there theowner of the womb that created
the stars.
You know what I mean.
And then Olo Run.
That is Olo, meaning owner.
In the Yoruba tradition, OloRun means heaven.
(11:51):
So when you say I'm praising toOlo Run, I'm praising to the
owner of heaven.
So a lot of times theyrepresent that to the sun.
Okay, Olo Fin is another termfor just straight God and like,
sometimes, the embodiment of Godthat we have on earth.
So, to answer your question,that's the supreme being.
What does that mean?
That is our creator, that isour one source.
We still have that highersource.
(12:12):
Orishas are very equivalent tolike angels.
They ain't above God, theyain't equal to God.
We have that supreme being.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
You stole that right out.
I was about to ask you thatquestion.
So what are the orishas?
Can you break down thedifferent?
If you can recall the top ofyour head, how many orishas are
there?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
so I can tell you.
So there's, they would say,there's like 200, there's like
400 orishas, and a lot of themare not as widely known a lot of
them yeah, right that, morelike intermediate.
I'm on both sides, you know whatI'm saying.
So you got a bunch of differentorish.
Not all of them made it over tothe diaspora with the knowledge
(12:47):
of them, but there's the mainthat we all work with in
Nisheche, which is traditional,and then Lukumi, which is in the
diaspora.
There's a lot of Orishas thatwe work with and that would be
Obatala first, elegua or Eshu,and then Obatala Yemiyah Oshun
Shango we talked about YaganyuOchozi, ogun Olokun, orisha Oku,
(13:13):
the Bejis Edu, which was thethird twin, or the triplet that
came out of the twins Yewa ObaObanani.
The list goes on Yewa ObaObanani, the list goes on Inle.
So there's a lot of differentorishas that cover the elements
of the world, and that'sbasically explaining that this
(13:38):
is what we do.
We are one with the universe.
We are one with nature.
We are one with the earth.
We are one with the air and thewind, the stars.
We are one.
We are one with the universe.
We are one with nature.
We are one with the earth.
We are one with the air and thewind, the stars.
We are one.
We are one source.
The law of the oneness flowswithin us all in a tradition of
IFA, and intermingling withthose energies and elements is
intermingling with those orishasand understanding those powers
(13:59):
and those dynamics.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Got you?
Wow, all right, it's like anencyclopedia man.
Will you break it down like?
So I, like you know before I go, it's how I ask questions.
I'm gonna put this down first.
Um, when you speak of obatala,shango oshun yamaya, right, we
you already have um noted thateach of them deal with the
(14:22):
elements right of the world, theuniverse.
So, if somebody can youdescribe the characteristics of
Obatala Like?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
if they say this person has Obatala on them.
Yeah, I can describe the Orisha.
And then what I've been doinglately is doing the true essence
of a child of an Orisha,because an Orisha is very
different than a child of anOrisha.
That is the biggestmisconception.
This is what I've beenpreaching at and teaching,
because people think, oh, shangois this way, so that means I'm
this way, and that's not how itworks.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Go ahead, let it go.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
That's not how it works, man.
I think one video made Shango.
He's like they are.
That's not how it works.
I made a series I've done likefour of them, the true essence
of the child of Arisha.
I broke it down what a child ofan Arisha is as opposed to an
Arisha.
So, to answer your question,his essence and his energy and
his energy and flows and powerdeals with the body, the temple,
(15:22):
and he's the owner of the head,which represents everything
within the head temple, and he'sthe owner of the head which
represents everything within thehead intelligence and wisdom.
He's the creator.
There are many different pathsof different orations.
That's something to consider aswell.
One is paths that he created.
You know the destiny and hehelped mold in one of the paths
of Obatala Ajala when heactually created the destiny
(15:42):
that we chose before him.
Then we chose it and he createdit, so he works with that.
His colors also represent a lotof who we are.
His color is just straightwhite and his name means the
king of the white cloth, obataala.
So it's a lot about the namesactually mean something.
You know, like yemoja isliterally like yeye, eja, which
is the mother of fishes.
So a lot of times the name justtell who they are.
(16:03):
You like Yeye Eja, which is themother of fishes.
So a lot of times the namesjust tell who they are, you know
.
But Obatala is the owner of thewhite cloth.
The purity represents thecleanness, represents the
character.
You know that cloth couldrepresent character.
They'll say don't let Epo redpalm oil stain your white cloth.
You got to be careful of badcharacter staining that, the
(16:23):
people around you, keeping thatclock clean of impurities.
You got to treat your body likea temple.
You know what I mean clean andpure, all that that can come
with that.
So obatala, that's his energy.
He's a male orisha.
He's considered the father ofthe orishas.
He's very wise and very smart,very intelligent.
Used to be a warrior.
There's many paths with him.
That's like obatala ayaguna,where he was a young warrior.
There's a path in a particularOdu where he decided I'm not
(16:45):
going to fight, no more, and hegave all his tools over to Ogun
and he dressed all in white tobecome a pacifist and to become
who he is.
So there's evolutions that theOrishas go through too.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I have heard that before, even down within the
Voodoo culture I hear peoplethey personify certain laws and
you know, now that you're sayingit, even in sensory ether
people be like well, you knowI'm a child of this, so I do
personify that characteristic ofthat particular Orisha and you
(17:16):
know they start behaving as suchand I'm like you know that's
some kind of psychosis.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
To me it is psychosis and it's also like a
misrepresentation.
You're not quite understandingwhy.
You are a child of a certainratio.
So if you're a child of Obatala, it doesn't mean it just means
you need him.
You need the things that he canbring you health.
If you're a child of Ogun, itdoesn't mean that you want to
fight all the time.
(17:42):
He needs to protect you,possibly from surgeries.
He needs to protect you,possibly from surgeries.
He needs to protect you fromviolence that can come on you.
You know you might be a child ofShango.
It doesn't mean you're like awarrior and a king and you're
like no.
You just mean there's going tobe battles in your life that
you're going to fight.
Maybe community battles it maybe.
(18:03):
You know're not necessarilyhave to be shanggu.
You know what I mean.
I said, if you ever get achance I'll send you the video
when I went off on my stopstereotyping these orishas, stop
trying to blame your characteron orishas.
You talking like you're just aclass 8b and you can't shut your
mouth.
And you said because I'm achild of ochun.
I said, man, keep ochun outyour mind, man, just because you
don't know how to shut up, man,I was like don't fucking hear
(18:23):
me, I got you right there.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Hold on, bumble.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Cloud.
Nah, it's.
You know, what I'm saying.
I've seen y'all too much.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
You know what I'm saying Nah, that's Yo, it's
crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
That's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
But I have a question Like what is an Odu?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I'm glad you asked that question like what is it?
What is the odoo?
I'm glad you asked that.
Um, so the the odoo's are thecorpus of the word of an orisha
called orun mila, the one whoknows your destiny.
Orun mila, the one who knowsyour salvation, the one who
knows your destiny, is what heis, and the corpus, his word, is
(19:03):
called ifa and within the 256there's a binary code, a system
of codes, an index ofinformation of how to tap into
portals and energies andvibrations of very frequencies,
and each Odoo tells you who youare.
Each Odoo tells you this.
So that's why I was about tosay that it's not about the
child of Arishu, it's your Odoo.
If your Od dude says you got abad character, your old dude
says temper.
(19:24):
Your old dude says no patience.
If your old dude says this, ifyour old dude says that the
susceptibility to all, to drinkand to this, that's within your
old dude, that's telling you thevibrations of your DNA, that's
matrixing within the universe.
That's all.
It's not about the original,it's about your old dude.
Great question.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
That's mathematical right there.
That's science for your asspeople.
It's so dope how you said that,how you put that in a proper
framework.
So it's finally, your destinyis through your Odu.
And how can you determine?
You said through Odu how canyou determine that a person has
(20:00):
a particular Orisha on them?
Are there any procedures that'staken?
Protocols, rituals?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So I think what you're asking is how do we
reveal their head, Arisha?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, your head Arisha, how do you reveal?
Your Ori, as they call it.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Well, ori is different than your tutelary
Arisha.
Your Ori comes with you before,during and after Earth.
That is your best thing, thatis with you always, that
accompanies you already Now theArishaisha.
So the basic fundamentals and Ialways speak fast because
there's always a lot ofinformation and I know it's
going to be recorded, so I justkind of just go ahead, you're
(20:33):
good they can play back.
Let's do this.
So listen, the the concept is.
The basic concept is you choseyour re, you chose your destiny,
your re was witness to that andthen, within that, you chose an
orisha.
So you chose a destiny.
You chose your destiny, your rewas witness to that and then,
within that, you chose an orisha.
So you chose a destiny.
You chose experiences, youchose trials and tribulations.
Okay, and that was chosenbefore you came to earth.
(20:54):
The one who was witness wasarumila they call my letting
ping which is witness to yourchoice of destiny and of god and
your re.
Then it was chosen this is mytrials and tribulations, this is
the orisha that's going to helpme overcome this in life.
That's why it's very importantto have that marked or revealed
properly.
Okay, and with that is the onewho was witnessed was Orumila.
(21:16):
So when you come from, you knowyou're going to get into these
politics and you're going to getinto people who don't work with
Baba Lawu and all that otherstuff, and you're going to get
into people who don't work withBabalawus and all that other
stuff, and they determinebasically there's a special
reading that's determined who isyour, who is the Orisha, to
reveal that, who is the one thatwants to be seated, who's the
one that's ready to guard yourori, who is the select head with
(21:38):
that special readings for that,and I'm going to give you my
strong opinion.
It should go to Arumila becausehe was a witness.
And it's done on a sacred opan,ifa, which we bring down Arumila
to the ground.
It's done to complete ifacorpus.
It's done in person.
We mark the odus and inscribeon top of the opan ifa, sacred
ifa tree.
(21:58):
We present everything to yourhead.
We ask Arumila in person and wefind out and ascertain and
reveal who is your or headorisha.
Okay, I always say it revealsvery important about the word
I'm choosing.
We didn't mark it then, itwasn't marked then that was
decided and marked before youcame to earth.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
We are revealing this information I like that very
scientific methodical in it.
You know, I I noticed that whenyou speak, when you define
these terms, you you use a lotof etymology and linguistic,
like you're showing the root ofthe word, what it means.
I like how you're breaking thatdown, man.
Yeah, you know listen.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I don't like to say a lot.
You know I may not know a lot alot of prayers, a lot of songs,
because I like to know what I'msaying.
You know what I mean.
And then I like to do myhistory.
You know, I like to have alittle me.
Sometimes there's this chanceyou're like hey, just say this,
it means something.
You know what I mean and youmemorize it, but I like knowing
information about it.
You know, I like to know alittle bit understanding and
(22:55):
educate myself that's dope,that's dope man.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
So, um, say like um, let's go about this right.
Right, if somebody comes to youlike they come to you and be
like I'm having a particularproblem whatsoever, I feel like
I have a negative energy that'splaced upon me.
How would you go about findingthem a solution you know?
(23:19):
Reveal to me.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Divination, my man Divination.
So if I so, I always explainthis.
It is no different.
So let, if you go to a doctorand you say, hey, I got a
headache, I need you to fix it,the doctor don't know nothing.
He, he's got to do blood work,he's got to take some x-rays,
he's got to do a medicalbackground, he's got to do some
(23:43):
questions, he's got to check youout after a thorough background
.
It can come from yo doing yourblood work, you're deficient in
your blood, you're low in youriron.
This is what's causingheadaches.
Or it can be like, you know,you got some other deficiency
going on, and or it can be likeyo, I checked you out, you got
nothing but stress.
Right now, that's the thingthat's causing you headaches.
(24:09):
You know what I mean.
Or it can be like yo take someAdvil, so you don't know what I
was doing proper.
Look, so someone comes in to meand says, yo, I think I got a
spirit on me, or my roads areblocked.
You know, can you prescribe aremedy?
Every remedy has a solution.
So let's say your roads areblocked.
I don't know if your roads areblocked because you're making
bad choices and I need to getyour head right and redirect you
(24:30):
, of course, correct some of thepath you're walking.
I don't know if it's a spiritthat's a latch down you.
I don't know if it's witchcraftthat's a latch down you, I
don't know if it's like you know.
All those will require adifferent remedy, or a different
elbow, which is a remedy youknow.
So divination helps meunderstand exactly what the
problem is and what the cause is.
Sometimes divination willreveal you don't have a problem,
(24:51):
no more, it's fine.
They all got a bad spirit on me.
Our ruler says you're fine, youknow what I mean.
And it's like there's someother issues going on, picking
up on mental problems.
You know what I mean.
Let's investigate this a littlebit.
You know what I mean.
On the flip side, someonethinks they got mental problems
and I took someone off of.
There was bipolar medicine,there was all these other types
of medicine what a P?
(25:12):
I forgot what it was All thesedifferent medicines for
depression, prozac and someother ones.
So it turns out that they had aspiritual problem.
They went off to medicine andthey're like yo, I still feel
alright without taking thismedicine.
Now my doctor wants to doubleit on me.
I said you're fine, my man.
It's like that's a diagnosis.
That's what a reading does man?
It's like that's the diagnosis,that's what a reading.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
does I like that.
I like that If you could breakdown, just for the sake of
listeners and viewers.
What is the Igbo?
I know some people spoke aboutit on this platform before, but
I want to hear your perspective.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, I watched the lady, the Santera, that was on
there.
You told me to check out yourYouTube.
I saw what she did.
I was able to watch it.
You know what?
I mean shout out to y'all byswimming yeah, I was like
there's been a real busy week.
I had some ceremonies, so I hadto just kind of you know browse
through to kind of get a vibefor what you are.
You know what I mean andeverything she did a great job.
She seems really authentic man.
(26:02):
Blessings to her man.
Oh, y'all bless her, so proudof where she's come.
I, I and just she just did awonderful job.
But um, as far as ebo, ebo,yeahB-O.
EBO all it is, no, no, no, it'sall good.
Ebo all it is is.
It means a lot of differentmeans, and EBO is basically your
(26:23):
solution, your remedy, and thatcan consist of many things.
That can consist of fruits andofferings, what we call adimum.
Sometimes they can involve asacrifice, sometimes they can
involve course correctingobedience.
That's a form of an Ebo.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
So a lot of the Ebo.
What was?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
recommended.
What was your remedy?
Is the remedies markedDifferent types of remedies,
different types for whateversolution.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
All right, that's dope.
That's dope because I heardpeople you know in the past
spoken about that.
Like you know, you gotta runinto the woods sometimes.
I'm like what, like stuff, likethat you know, man, here's the
deal.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
There's a lot of people that when they're not
really knowledged and studied,they will mark unnecessary
things.
A real priest I shouldn't say areal priest, but a priest
that's working with the personsand your intent is to help the
(27:26):
person.
It should be like let me find,let me start small and work my
way up.
You know, sometimes things canbe solved, which is we have a
tale of Arumina, which is called.
You Don't Care, arumina, Icould just pass this over to you
, and that's all Arumina saysman, you don't need this, you
don't need any of that, you know.
And then sometimes there's someextravagant things, but there
(27:46):
is a time and a place for allthat and I ain't going to say
nothing about that.
But, like you know, I side eyecertain things.
If it's consistently, you'repaying big, big money doing
these extravagant things andit's like let's look to help the
person, man, let's see, let'snot do unnecessary remedies.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
You know what it is too, and this is something
across the board in all thesediaspora practices.
And again, if you're offended,maybe you have done it.
People, you got a lot ofprophets out there that's just
for profit.
False prophets for the profit.
Uh, what's, what's the word ofcharlatans out there that have
elaborate altars and all kindsof things, and when you go there
(28:27):
, they can't even kill a roach.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I could say this over the last 10 years maybe five or
10 years the interest in thistradition has skyrocketed and
with social media, it justreally created the velocity of
interest.
Interest comes, predators,interest comes a lot of people
looking at as a cash cow andlosing the principles of why we
(28:52):
are on the other side of thistable.
Of helping somebody is for theperson.
It's not to make money first.
The money and compensation willcome in its right place, but if
you're looking for that firstand you're doing things of that
nature, it's going to catch upto you and people will not
follow you.
Man, I've been in places.
Man, I've been in some darkplaces.
Man, in my life, financially,yo, man, I'll tell you, I've
(29:13):
been there Like I'm looking forfood to eat because I was trying
to practice this religion,going full time in my botanica
in 2008 when the real estatemarket crashed and I got people
needing my help and I'm liketrying to make rent and I got
family and a baby I'm doing,really, my baby in my carrier
and I'm trying to make rent andfeed my family, and you know,
and a person comes and says youknow, listen, I'll pay whatever,
I just want to get this girlback.
(29:35):
I want to do this love spell.
You know I'll pay $1,000.
And I'll be like, listen, Ican't help you.
Or someone feels I feel I got aspirit in me.
I think I need an exorcism.
You know, I think of testing me.
I know it was a richest testingand over time I built up a
(29:55):
reputation in that group.
You know what I mean.
You try to make a quick buck.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
You're gonna have a quick fall yeah, of course, and
that's that right there that youpossess is called integrity.
You have integrity some peopledon't have that integrity.
They, just as you say, they tryand get that quick buck.
They want a high style profileand be like pay for a
subscription.
I'm like listen, you know, toeach your own.
It's a business.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yo, you know, as you said, go, you know, go in there
and collect your coins, but whenyou, when that fall comes,
you're gonna fall hard yeah, Ibelieve if anybody's paying for
something I don't you know I'mnot knocking anybody when it
comes to money, what they charge, you know I mean tights and all
that other stuff.
You know what I mean.
I I would say like, listen, ifyou're going to make someone pay
for something, make surethey're getting something for it
(30:35):
, not just give you money fornothing.
You know what I mean.
I've done some stuff for you onthat.
But I hear you, what we callIwa Pele, we call character, iwa
is character.
There's many different types ofIwas Iwa Peba, responsible Iwa
sotito, honesty.
You know what I'm saying.
(30:55):
So there's a lot of differentIwas that we need to be
interacting as a we're humanbeings first.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Mm-hmm Got you, so I have this question for you,
right?
How do sacred places, altarsand shrines reflect the
cosmology of Santeria?
Say that one more time.
How do sacred spaces?
Speaker 2 (31:25):
altars and shrines reflect the cosmology of
Santeria.
You know we have altars, wehave our sacred spaces.
Altars have generated from thebeginning of the genesis of
Santeria.
You know, santeria is just aname for the religion in that
time.
It reflects the time of thatreligion and the Santeria had a
lot of statues and a lot ofCatholic statues.
Now, you know, we have sacredspaces that we still put in our
homes and shrines.
(31:46):
There's nothing wrong with that.
You know what I mean.
We have adapted to ourdiasporic conditions in our
environments.
Right, you know, back in theday in Nisheche in Nigeria there
were certain cults of certainOrishas and they had the
community town shrine and theyhad the head priest or the
parent or the head of the familyand that was the shrine and
that was it.
(32:06):
We don't have that.
We have to kind of create ourown spaces within our own
privacy of our home, and this isthe genesis for the need.
A lot of the religion that wehave was birthed out of the
necessity to adapt to ourenvironment.
So, yes, we had to bring incertain altars in our house, we
had to create certain things incertain spaces and that reflects
the cosmology of how we areinteracting with our within our
(32:30):
home so that's dope right there.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
So when you know the cosmology of the altars, like I
have seen altars, what they callbovedas, with like three
glasses, some, some, so theboveda is a spiritual altar that
represents the spiritual vaultof the geyser spiritual
ancestors, and then there'sorisha altars.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
As you know, they're separate, but the bovada is
something that is a very um,that would be more of the
santeria part that evolves, ofthe bovada, of the glasses and
the certain prayers.
But you know, I alwaysrecommend a bovada because that
that is your conduit.
The water is the conduit andthe source, the vibrations for
(33:10):
energies and spirits to becalled in, and you create like a
vault and that can be yourdedicated sacred space.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Alright, so can you describe a Santeria altar?
Because I have seen likeWelcome Past Botanicas.
They have these elaborate likepots, or I don't want to say
urns, but it's like theseelaborate like fine china pots.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
I have seen like these things looking like so,
over time, in Santeria, whatwould they adapted what they
call soperas, which is basicallya soup tureen, and they have
them are born with the colorsand the implements that
represent those orishas.
And those orishas, you know,anything that is started out in
its form, it could just you canbuy it from Chinatown or you can
(33:52):
get it whatever.
But once it's consecrated, onceit's appropriately washed,
prepared, birthed of an Orisha,housed the Orishas, it becomes a
vault, it becomes very sacredenergy that you're holding a
portal of Asher within your ownhome and then Olo Orisha, which
is the term for Santero, orSantero Olo, all back to all
(34:12):
owner of heaven, all orishabasically means you own orishas
and you have a part of thattangibly.
That's one of the beautifulthings of this tradition is that
we're not just praying toelements.
We've been able to tangiblytake some of that.
I take some of that I share andhouse and have that within our
home and within our space gotyou.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
that's dope, bro, that's so.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
in order to have that done, you got to have a priest
or a priestess come by and dothe whole initial setup for you
Well in order to have the ownOrisha, you have to have been
undergone the ceremony for oldOrisha, which is crowning Yoko
Ocha, which just means theseating of Orisha, and when you
(34:54):
make Santo I don't like to usethe word Santos or Santeria, but
basically, when you make Santo,or when you crown Santo, or
when you Yoko Ocha and you thoseare all terms for going under
initiation for a priest, orishaor Santero then you have been
given your Orishas that arebirthed in these pots properly.
Then you're housing this your,your, your orishas that are
birthed in these pots properly.
Then you're housing this.
(35:14):
I said that came from somebodyelse's orishas.
Life comes from life, so theywere born from the godparents
orishas.
Then you take those orishas andyou house them in your home
properly and have taught how toattend to them and contain them.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Got you.
That's dope, man, that's dope.
It sounds very similar to otherpractices, man.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Of course, man.
That is how it works.
That's why, when you get thecriticism between the slantari,
or lukumi and hisheshi, I'm likeman.
They're different expressions.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Hmm, all right.
In what ways does possession byan orisha transform both the
possessed and the observers?
Speaker 2 (35:59):
I don't know if it transforms, but it's so funny.
Today I just dropped two videosabout possession.
I did, I dropped it like aboutfour hours ago.
I did, I dropped it like aboutfour hours ago.
You know, possession comes fromwhat they call a person that
can get possessed first of all.
So did you say, by Orisha holdon.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
They get like coming to possess, like say the um.
So in what ways does possessionby an Orisha transform both the
possessed and the observers?
Like the energy, like how doesit?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah, so when they're possessed by an Orisha, because
you can get possessed by yourlike a spirit, like a human
spirit, like what we call Moetoor Egun, which is the ancestors.
But for those who are possessedby Orisha, they have to have
one been initiated to have thatashe intertwined when you crown
Orisha.
It is a symbiosis.
It creates an intermingling oftwo energies, of your soul and
(37:02):
your body, and this Orishabecome intertwined.
That's why I say this is asymbiotic religion.
And once you do that, some arewhat they're called elegun and
that means you are a horse, youcan be mounted, and that not
everybody has that.
But if you are crowned andinitiated and if you are an
elegun, the orisha can then comedown, and usually it's done at
(37:26):
ceremonies where the music wasplaying and they're invoking
these orishas.
And if it's the right setting,sometimes the orishas will come
down.
How it transforms or whathappens, you know what it does
is that person.
That Elagun becomes the bridge.
It becomes the bridge betweenthe people that are present.
That Orisha came down for areason wanted to show power,
wanted to communicate, wanted tobless or clean the people, and
(37:54):
they're blessed with.
Actually, an Orisha can touchground and be within you as if
they're walking on earth againand sort of like a temporary
reincarnation to come in andbless someone, to talk to them
directly without needing amedium.
So when it's done properly it'svery beautiful notice.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
I said when it's done properly yeah, of course I
respect that because because youknow, I have heard from you,
know friends, I have that, Ihave that practice, this culture
yeah and I would make a cleardistinction.
You know those that knew andthose that was like, as they
seen the streets, was false flagand false claiming where they.
(38:25):
They said um yo, if you passspirit, you can't be a baba lao
stuff like that.
I have heard you can't be aBabalao stuff like that.
I have heard you can't be aBabalao.
I have heard that before.
Is that true?
Is that some truth that is?
Speaker 2 (38:40):
true.
So there's two taboos in theLukumi tradition, and one of
that you cannot be a Babalao,and one of them is if you get
possessed, it doesn't mean youcannot be an Olorisha or Santera
or Sano.
But a Babalao is a differentrealm.
A Babalao is a different typeof level of initiation because
it's born from a Lofi, and thething about a Babalao is a
Babalao can never be that elegun.
(39:01):
He can never be that openportal for a spirit and or
Orisha to overtake his body.
He has to be in control.
He sometimes is the master ofceremonies, he's sometimes
holding and wielding a knife.
He has to be in control.
Imagine if a Babalaw was thereand he's trying to divine or
he's taken over by a spirit.
It just there has to be someonewhere that door is closed.
And so that's one of theprerequisites to becoming a
(39:23):
Babalaw is not being an elegum,but Ororisha, all of that, or
spiritualist, or someone thatmounts spirits, or or muertos,
or angles, or ancestors.
You know that all happens, butthose are different realms.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
But to be to.
Yes, that is a thing withinBabalawos.
So is it bad because I haveheard this within some within
the Haitian voodoo culture andhearing this from you is it bad
to be mounted at a?
Say you go to a ceremony like a, as you guys call it, a tambone
or a ceremony, is it a badthing to be mounted?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
No.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I know the dangers of it.
You know if you're aroundnegative people they could do
things to harm you.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
But I mean that goes with let's eliminate.
Like the environment.
Let's say the environment isapropos or ideal.
It's never a bad thing.
You know what I mean.
It it's never a bad thing.
You know what I mean.
It's a racist.
It can come down.
Most people want to be thatelegant.
That's why people try to forcethose possessions.
You know what I mean.
They try to make it happen.
It's like it's just nothappening.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
You know what I mean.
It's the fate.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
You get the theatrics , but the real ones, the real
ones.
It's beautiful and again, whenit's done authentically, it's
always done in a setting that'sin a controlled environment.
This is why you always want tobe around your elders.
This is why you want to go withelders.
You want to be around anenvironment where you can be
trusted.
You don't want to be just somerandom Santero going to some
(40:42):
random people's town borders anddrumming and getting possessed.
No one there to take care ofyou, look after you.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
You always want to go with your posse.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
You always want to go with your elders.
You always want to go in placeswhere you feel comfortable.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Definitely that protection because you know
people have heard horror stories.
People are just mad, horriblein general.
Man, oh man, all right, so wespoke about the beads and all
that we spoke about beads yeah,we spoke about the b said you
got your at a young age, yourwarriors and all that.
He said like how, how are yourwarriors are selected?
How, how were you giving yourwarriors?
Like, what's the process ofthat?
You don't have to go, you knowtoo too deep to violate code and
(41:22):
ethics, but how do how does oneget, get their um warriors?
Speaker 2 (41:25):
yeah, warriors.
First, I want to mention thatyou know, anytime you get elek
is your necklaces, you getwarriors.
You're handing me fiveinitiations or crowns, and my
strongest, strongest opinion,that's something that should be
done when a person Intentionally, voluntarily, wants it not done
(41:46):
because they've been forced,not done because they've been
told to not told because it'scoming up and you need help.
And now you've got to get thesewarriors told to not told
because it's coming up and youneed help.
And now you got to get thesewarriors.
It's something that you do whenyou learn about them and you
want to take that next step andyou want to get closer.
You know.
So Ilekes are necklaces andbeads.
The etymology of the word beadis prayer, so having prayers and
orishas are connected, whichyou want your warriors.
(42:07):
That is a living orisha ofEligua.
There is something verypowerful and secret that goes
inside the vessel of an Eliguathat has life and again life
gives life.
So it's born from thegodparents.
Eligua.
The Ogumpa will be born fromagain the godparents.
And there's an Osun, which is asilver rooster that represents
your head in Orin.
It's put up high and if itfalls, it's warning of impending
(42:28):
danger.
How do you get them.
You know it has to be given toyou by a priest.
Typically, warriors are givento you by Babalawos, especially
those that work with Babalawos,and the Babalawo will prepare,
he might do, he will dodivination to determine how to
construct your personal Ligua.
He will construct the.
Let me tell you what I would do.
(42:49):
I would divine on it.
I will find out what the Oducomes from.
I will find out the path ofthat particular igua.
How is it going to beconstructed?
What is it going to be housedin?
The shell or cement?
How is it going to be Put theload in?
There's a charge, secret charge.
Put the stuff in it.
Semantic All myself, I never getthe most.
It has nail that representsthat he's a warrior and a red
(43:11):
parrot feather is very importantthe pluma de loro that puts on
top as well.
Put beads of a rumila to let itknow that it was made by Baba
La'u.
And then, once I construct thatand have the ogupa and the osu
particularly prepared, then Ifeed them the appropriate
animals, from mine to the next,and then it's given life, and
then I was able.
Then, from there they areliving orishas, vibrating with
(43:33):
life and like what now is bornfor this person sole purpose to
defend and help this person.
Who's going to receive them?
And then I present them to theperson, instruct them how to
intend to them, how to take careof them, how to house them,
what to do, and you continuethat relationship with them
that's dope.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
You know I'm gonna reveal something.
You know, and when they hearthis that people will be bugging
.
I'm like what I received?
One, I got a.
I got a dear friend of mine Icall my godmother.
You know I call a godmother.
You know I'm going to real hername with salute to her.
There's raw like real to thecore.
I remember one time I was goingthrough A crazy point in my life
(44:12):
and I was going through a crazypoint in my life and I was
given something that had likethe black and red beads around,
like I don't know was it a rockor something, but it's like a
square shaped thing.
And I was given this thing.
I kept it on me and I noticed alot of negative things were not
(44:32):
happening around me.
So one day I was out in a crazypublic outing and I think I
believe I misplaced this thing.
Well, I knew I lost it.
I'm like yo, it's not in mypocket.
I got, couldn't find it, canyou believe?
The next day I woke up thisthing was under my pillow I
thought I was bugging I thoughtI was bummed, like no, I had
this with me, right, I rememberI had.
I had everyone looking everyonelike, yeah, yeah, I remember you
(44:53):
had it.
You know you took it out, youknow it was in the car, man you
know, when you do stuff likethat, you start questioning your
sanity.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Like wait a minute, yeah Whoa.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
That's what's up.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
That's what's up.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
That was El Igual.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
You go, no matter what tradition you are in.
He was there for you for areason.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
That's beautiful, definitely, and I remember the
song like yeah, have me like youknow.
I was like, oh, this, this song, you know, might, might dance
to this, to this.
The question I have is how dopractitioners navigate the
stigma and misconceptionssurrounding Santeria, aoife and
(45:44):
leukemia?
Speaker 2 (45:46):
That's a big one.
I've talked about this a lotand I made a lot of videos as
well, trying to explain thatthis religion was born out of
secrecy.
There's no need for that anymore.
The culture was hiding it.
The culture was doing thingsbehind closed doors in basements
(46:07):
and hiding your orishas.
I got calledas.
I got called out.
I was doing a video and I hadmy necklaces.
I had my ilikas.
I had a bunch of them out.
There was a few peopleridiculing me.
You're not supposed to havethem out.
What are you doing?
What's with all these necklaces?
(46:28):
I'm like listen, I've alwaysbeen very proud of my religion.
There's no need for us to hideit.
I was at an airport.
My family and I were travelingto crown somebody in Florida, my
daughter, who's a Shango priest.
She's very proud man, she'svery religious man, she's 23.
She had her necklaces out andsome lady came up to the airport
(46:52):
while we're waiting at the gateto kind of board the plane and
she's like you know, thosenecklaces, you need to put them
away, you don't sit there andyou don't have them out.
My daughter was, like you know,a little timid.
So she kind of like OK, kind ofcovered them up and came up to
me.
She's like, dad, that lady over, like you told her to put her
(47:13):
necklaces away.
And she's like, yeah, you know,I was supposed to.
I was like listen, we don'thide, I said, my religion.
We don't hide the religion.
I said she's crowned and I'vebeen crowned for 30 years.
On it say yeah, this is myreligion.
When I made Baba Laos, wheneverything changed for me, I was
(47:35):
still in the sacred room insidethe seven-day ceremony.
My godfather sat us all down.
He goes you're Baba Laos.
Now you guys are high priests,you guys are priests of this
religion.
You're ambassadors.
You don't hide this religion.
If someone asks you what thatis around your wrist, you tell
(47:55):
them what it is and you tellthem who you are.
You say this religion and itchanged my life.
I said no, there's no hiding,no more, I'm not going to be up
all loving my religion and yetdenying my religion to someone
who asked about it.
Because why?
Why?
Because there's a stigma.
Yeah, we do animal sacrifices.
Let's talk about it.
You know what I mean.
You sacrifice an animalreligion.
Come with the Muslims.
They do their ceremonies too.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Come for prayer.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Come on Like the rabbi wanted Come on, listen,
don't cry to me.
Come after the Jews too, forthe young compare and they
sacrifice a chicken on the dayof atonement.
Come on, let's do this.
You want to do the sacrifice ofAbraham when he killed his son.
You guys do that ceremony everyday in the Middle East and
Islam.
Well, come out to everybody.
What about you Christianseating meat every day?
You know what I'm saying.
You didn't care about theanimal.
(48:35):
At least, when the animal dieswith us, it dies with pride, it
dies with sacrifice, humanely,with prayers, and we release the
spirit to heaven.
Come on now, what are we hidingour religion for?
Like?
Why don't you Listen?
I'm questioning you.
I'm questioning you, tell, I'mquestioning you.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Tell him Now, I'm with you.
I like that.
I like that Because you knowyou shouldn't have to hide who
you are to make someone elsecomfortable, make yourself
comfortable, make somebodycomfortable Now that it's
getting popular.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
You see a lot of artists like Beyonce coming out
with her songs and talking aboutshe's in a religion.
You know you heard a song withmy ocean energy.
You know.
You know they're coming outwith it now because, because
it's accepted.
But where was you 10 years ago?
I know you were in it beforeyou came to that song.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
It's always like that .
I'm telling you.
People do that all the time.
They do that man, not me.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
I've been proud of this religion before it was
popular.
Look at me, funny.
I went through all that andthem side eyes and judging my
family, judging me.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
Being that we're speaking about Oshun, how does
oshun embody love, beauty andfertility?
Speaker 2 (49:36):
because you don't have to think, yeah, no, listen,
the auto-erasures embodydifferent things and I did a
video on the true essence of achild, of oshun.
Um, you know, tune comes tobring, you know, love andlove,
okay.
And a tomb represents a lot ofthe womb of the woman, the
creator, and every ceremony,every, I should say every
(49:59):
initiation, every priestinitiation, whether it be a
Olorisha, santero or a Babalao,there is a trip to the river and
that is because we got to goback to her waters.
If we want to be reborn again,we got to go back to her waters,
which represents the ambioticfluid and that represents us
going back to the womb, gettingrefreshed, getting cleansed.
(50:19):
Ok, it's nice to know she canbring you love, she can bring
you warm, it'll chew on bodiesat all, and that's when we tap
into those energies and shegives us that love, that tough
love and also that self-love.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
And I hear that definitely you can't.
It can't be, it can't always beeasy.
Life itself is a challenge.
Polarities it ebbs and flows,so it is.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Our lives are difficult and your reaches are
here to help us get through thattough time so how?
Speaker 1 (50:47):
how are god godparents chosen in this
practice?
Speaker 2 (50:51):
all right, I've done a video on that too, called
choosing elders, called choosingelders man, and, and the thing
is here I'm going to give youthe three steps, I'm going to
tell you how, I'm going to tellyou how it should be done, and
I'm going to give you the threecriterias.
Don't choose elders.
Don't choose someone by theirlocation, instead by their
reputation.
Don't look for titles, look forcharacter.
(51:11):
Okay, don't choose someone bytheir location, instead by their
reputation.
Don't look for titles, look forcharacter.
Don't look for someone that canspeak the language but can
speak the message of Ifa.
Mr Mikey, brother, give me alittle sound.
I thought you were going to doa sound.
All right.
One more, all right.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
I got you another one , needs his shots yeah, I'll get
shot up now.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Hold on, all right.
So the whole like don't.
Don't choose elders by location, choose them by reputation,
because sometimes we think, oh,they must be in nigeria, they'd
be better, or they in cuba,they'd be better.
Oh, they're down the block,they're in my city.
They must be the ones I need togo to you have to go where the
where you are connected to.
Okay, because would you?
Would you trust a specialistthat is for your life, that is,
(52:01):
that might need to do surgery,and you're choosing a doctor?
Would you say, well, he's downthe street from me, he's down,
he's five minutes down thestreet, down Fullerton Avenue in
Chicago.
Or you be like yo, there's aspecialist up in New York that's
specialized in this, has got agood background, has got good
reviews.
When it comes to your life andlifelong decisions, you go where
the reputation is.
It doesn't matter location.
It doesn't matter if it's faraway that you think it doesn't
(52:21):
matter.
Choose reputation, look atreviews, look at the community,
things like that.
Now, you don't look for titles,you's a chief.
I don't care if a dude's gotcrowned this much money or this
many years An ultra, I don'tcare if he's got this, he's got
that.
He can still be an asshole.
Excuse my language.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
He can still be an a-hole.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
You know what I'm saying?
He can still, it doesn't matter.
He can be a legit priest, havean author, be a chief and still
rob you from your money becauseyou don't have character.
Look for character, not titles.
And the other one is don't lookat him while he speaks Cuban or
Ubin or you know.
I want someone that can speakCuban Spanish.
No, look for someone not justspeaking the language but speaks
(53:05):
the message of Ifan, someonethat can throw an old dude and
look at the signs and speak themessages that need to be told
for you.
When you find those qualitiesand you take your time and you
do your research and ask thecommunity, you should be fine.
Build a relationship.
Go slow before you make anydeep commitments.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
That's peace right there.
And with that being said, mybrother Baba Victor, I
appreciate you coming outtonight, my brother.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
My pleasure man.
I did a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
You are knowledgeable , very expressive, detailed,
clear.
You didn't do all that hoopla,all that extra talk when people
be you know they be beatingtheir chest and all this stuff.
Nah, you kept it clear, conciseand very beautiful.
Man, I appreciate you forcoming out here.
Where can people find you at?
Man, drop your handle on thereand let the people know where
(53:55):
they can find you.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
I have a website gotbabaorg, like got milk.
It's called gotbabaorg.
All right, I just started.
Since April, I started reallyposting things on TikTok, baba
Victor.
I think that's where you mighthave found me Starting a YouTube
channel, baba Victor.
But if you really wanted tofind me or any kind of like
(54:20):
focus session with me oranything, baba Victor has my bio
, has all the links.
I used to have an Instagram forTemple.
We recently found my temple butit got hacked.
Someone hacked it and theninstagram locked me out.
Not just that, man, I'm justgonna go with tic tac, I'll be
all right leaving them.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Definitely, baba victor.
I appreciate you, brother.
Keep doing the great work.
Man, we got to connect again.
Speaker 2 (54:44):
You know they're gonna ask for you to come back
um, there's so much more I wantto talk about, so so much
definitely man that's why Ispeak fast, because there's so
much I want to get out nah, it'sall good.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Nyp's the home, come yo.
Anybody else that's listed.
You got something to speakabout?
You bring it up on here.
Papa victor here, if you haveissues, reach out to him, your
brother will take care of you.
Don't forget to comment, like,share, subscribe.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
My people, my people and we out.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
Peace, my brother.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
Thank you.
peace, peace, peace, world.
How you doing this, yourbrother mikey fever?
You know I'm saying peace ofthe world.
Hope everyone had a great day.
Peace of the gods, peace to theearth.
Peace to the hebrews.
Salam alaikum to my islamicpeople.
I will bow to my haitian buddhapractice practice practitioners
, you know.
Salam alaikum to the apollopeople.
(00:37):
You see I'm butchering that,forgive me.
Peace to the power community.
Peace to the santeria, the ifapeople, bendy, sean and all that
you know, of course.
You know, guys gotta show loveto the atrs man.
Okay, you know, we sittingthere, the tone right.
We got big brother baba victorin the building that's me.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Thank you for having me that's all love, my brother.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
You know we had to set the tone right, get the
vibes going.
I hear it.
I hear it.
This music man is very relaxing.
Tell the story.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
That's it.
That's what music does man.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Definitely.
So we're gonna tone that outright now and we're gonna get
into this out right now andwe're going to get into this, oh
man.
So, Baba Victor, brother, it'sa pleasure to have you on here.
Welcome to the NYP platform.
You know, introducing you tothe people.
We'd like to know a little moreabout you, Baba Victor.
So where do you hail from?
Where are you coming from,brother?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
All right man, I'm located, born and raised in
Chicago, Midwest.
All right man, I'm located,born and raised in Chicago,
midwest.
Yeah, chi-town, my whole lifebeen in Chicago.
But you know, I've been as faras the community of Orisha, I've
been exposed to some of the Ialways call it the Mecca, the
three Meccas of Lukumi, which isMiami, new York and Chicago,
(02:03):
some of the major cities.
You know you can includeAtlanta in there, but you know
that's growing up.
Everybody was associated withNew York and Florida and in the
community we always mingled.
You know, we alwaysinterchanged, we always traveled
, we always had that connectionas far as the community, because
(02:24):
growing up in the community,man, it was small in chicago, so
you had a, you had to branchout to to some of the elders
that you needed and sometimes wehad to like resource them out
and have people come in.
But, um, I've been in this for,uh, 45 years in the tradition
of of or and Lukumi 45 years, 45years I've been initiated
(02:50):
Shango.
I've been initiated Shango foralmost 30 years, maybe about 28
years, and Baba Lawu priest for23 years.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Mvp huh I don't know about and Baba Lawu priest for
23 years, MVP huh I don't knowabout MVP, but I consider myself
an elder.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And the other good thing is being in it for so long
, I've seen the transitions,I've seen the changes, man, I've
seen all the evolutions, Ithink, and that's why I always
say man, I'm a good reference tospeak on it, because I've been
in it for so long and not justbeen initiated and just been
about my life Like I've been,like I've been in the streets.
(03:32):
You know I've been in thetrenches with this religion when
it was like you had to hideeverything and you know you had
to worry about police busting in.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
So before we go into that, I'd like to know more.
How did you get introduced intothis?
Give us a little bit about yourbackground.
Your childhood years Were youraised religious organized
religion.
As far as Christian, yeah, Iwas definitely raised really
strong Lutheran.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Christian, really strong Lutheran Christian.
But I'm second generationpriest in this tradition of
Arisha.
My father got initiated when Iwas about eight years old.
He had got introduced to mygodmother, which is his
godmother helped him out withsome things, performed some
(04:21):
small miracles for us.
Someone had introduced him whenhe was going through some
trouble.
You know how it goes.
It's like, hey, I know thislady, she's helping me out.
It just got to him.
He got out of some legal stuff.
It was like a miraculous thing.
He was flabbergasted by thepower of it.
(04:42):
This is what you know.
In the in the 1980, you knowwhat I'm saying.
So it's like you really didn'thear about it.
So he got into it, gotinitiated.
He got me and my sister ournecklaces.
We took it from there and andand from him.
(05:03):
When I was about 15, you knowhe allowed us to take it as far
as we wanted to.
So that's when I started makingdecisions on my own.
I got my warriors, you know, Igot my.
That's the one thing he got mein my neck.
This is when I was about eight,so about 15, I got my warriors
about 20.
I was initiated, you know, and,and I just moved on, you know,
(05:23):
continuing to follow.
This was my path, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So I have a question is nationality background?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, I'm Mexican, but my nationality is American.
My ethnic background is, yeah,is Mexican.
You know, my family is 400Mexican.
I'm not Cuban, not Puerto Rican.
I'm Mexican, chicano.
You know what?
I'm not Cuban, I'm Puerto Rican, I'm Mexican, I'm Chicano.
You know what I'm saying?
I don't even.
Here's the thing about me.
Here's why I'm a good referencetoo, because I don't even speak
fluent Spanish.
(05:54):
You know what I mean?
Yeah, both my parents werebilingual, but you know, when
they speak both languages, theyraised us.
I had to learn Spanish on myown you, I'm my own.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
You know what I mean.
It's like I look at the samething too, with the Creole
background in English, and soyou know they speak Creole.
I respond in English, but Iunderstand it.
It's like it's like I'm a dog,I don't speak, I understand.
I'm like, oh yeah, I shoot backthe English at you.
They look at me like what'sgoing?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
on man that was rough man in this community.
I gotta tell you somethinggrowing up in in Santa Rio is
what it was called back then.
Um it, it was primarily spanish.
You know what I mean and and itwas always spoken in spanish.
You know readings for you wasdone in spanish.
You don't even know what'sgoing on.
You know I had to be like yo,what's he asking?
(06:38):
What's happening?
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
It was tough that's dope man, but yo look, look at
it, look it, look at your time,your tenure in there Like you've
been there 45 years.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
No excuses, man.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
You pushed yourself, you know.
So we're going to get into somequestions, like as far as
we're're spoon feeding ourlisteners and our viewers we
only, you know, asking questionsfor the sake of you know,
educational purposes, to make itunderstandable for them, in
(07:12):
case him or her may one day, youknow, have a inquiry or a
desire to get initiated.
So we're going to ask somebasic questions, you, you know
I'm done with that man.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
My whole platform too .
I've changed it to um, to justfor beginners.
Man, I I'm over the drama andall the everybody who, who knows
more and everything.
I'm like you know what.
Let me step out of that.
I ain't trying to be a part ofthat.
I'm just gonna help out thosewho want to learn.
I call it the newbies.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, a lot of it is ego.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
You know, sometimes when people get caught up in
these, practices yeah, they likeit, boosted they.
They develop a complex wherethey feel like they are the
authoritative figure of such andsuch practices.
And it's weird, man, what?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
can you say I got a lot on that.
I can speak on both of them.
Go ahead, I'm down withwhatever you want to ask me you
asked me to be here, so becareful what you ask for my man,
listen bro.
Listen, you don't say no.
I don't know why you chose me,but I'm going to come with you.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
It's all love.
It's all love man.
Yeah, how did Santeria emergefrom the fusion of Yoruba
traditions and Catholicism inthe Caribbean?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, so you know, we call it the diaspora.
So when the Yoruba practicesvery basic knowledge, most
people know, after the slavetrade, they started
intermingling.
They started Cuba was it was amajor one Brazil, trinidad,
right, and they they weren'tallowed.
(08:47):
So, as you know, they had tohide the religion.
So the religion was born out ofsecrecy.
That's one.
They had to hide the religionand one of the greatest things
that the tradition that we havein the diaspora.
We come from an energy wherethey fought for something, you
know, they believed in somethingand risked death man to them
(09:08):
and to the family.
Let's think about that.
They kept it alive, knowingthat they could die or their
kids can die, for all of us tobe aware of it and practice this
in the diaspora.
Right, and I respect that.
I'm like yo, that's my, that'smy elders, I'm down with my,
with my Lukumi diaspora elders.
So they had to hide thereligion behind catholicism.
That was the oppressed, thatwas the, the tradition that they
(09:31):
had to be, and catholicism hasa lot of saints, okay, so what
they did was, you know, theysynchronized in orisha with the
saint and they had their saintsup there and they were
worshiping the saints a lot.
So that's how you get the termsanteria, which just means the
way of the saints.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
All right, that's all it is.
That's all it is.
It's basic, it's basic man.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
So they saw them because Catholic was in the
church but they didn't reallyhave that many saints up in the
practitioner, you know what Imean.
It was just Jesus Christ, youknow what I mean.
Maybe the church has them, butthey were like all about their
statues in the rooms.
Like yo, they, they'repracticing their Santeria.
I mean they really, they reallybought the same religion, but
it was the Orishas that they wasthere hiding the religion and
secrecy, and that's how it gotfused.
(10:20):
But what happened is, over time, when the freedoms came and
they didn't have to, they canpractice what they wanted.
By then you get two or threegenerations later.
They were just growing up intothe Catholic tradition and they
were practicing both and thenSanteria became a term that was
basically with a little bit ofthe Catholic background infused
with the Orisha tradition.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Got you.
I like that, I like that.
So, as far as the theology andbeliefs, right, right, what is
the nature of Alundamare, thesupreme being in Santeria?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Alright, so the one you know.
I've done some teachings onthis.
As far as what?
Would you consider our religion?
You know our faith.
Is it a monotheistic tradition?
Is it a polytheism?
You know what I mean.
But we do have a supreme being.
So, to answer your question,Olundumare, Olorun and Olofi are
(11:08):
just different names, differenttitles for the one supreme
source, which is the creator,which is, in English terms, God.
So Olojumare is the creator ofthe universe, the creator of the
stars.
There's many differenttranslations for that word.
Yoruba words and a lot of theLukumi and Santeria have a lot
of root words that are in Yoruba, but they sometimes take on
(11:30):
different meanings.
You know what I mean.
Sort of like a Latin root word,but the word can have something
else.
But a lot of the root words ofYoruba are compound words.
So Lujumare, it gives you allthe creator, but it's like a
bunch of things in there theowner of the womb that created
the stars.
You know what I mean.
And then Olo Run.
That is Olo, meaning owner.
In the Yoruba tradition, OloRun means heaven.
(11:51):
So when you say I'm praising toOlo Run, I'm praising to the
owner of heaven.
So a lot of times theyrepresent that to the sun.
Okay, Olo Fin is another termfor just straight God and like,
sometimes, the embodiment of Godthat we have on earth.
So, to answer your question,that's the supreme being.
What does that mean?
That is our creator, that isour one source.
We still have that highersource.
(12:12):
Orishas are very equivalent tolike angels.
They ain't above God, theyain't equal to God.
We have that supreme being.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
You stole that right out.
I was about to ask you thatquestion.
So what are the orishas?
Can you break down thedifferent?
If you can recall the top ofyour head, how many orishas are
there?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
so I can tell you.
So there's, they would say,there's like 200, there's like
400 orishas, and a lot of themare not as widely known a lot of
them yeah, right that, morelike intermediate.
I'm on both sides, you know whatI'm saying.
So you got a bunch of differentorish.
Not all of them made it over tothe diaspora with the knowledge
(12:47):
of them, but there's the mainthat we all work with in
Nisheche, which is traditional,and then Lukumi, which is in the
diaspora.
There's a lot of Orishas thatwe work with and that would be
Obatala first, elegua or Eshu,and then Obatala Yemiyah Oshun
Shango we talked about YaganyuOchozi, ogun Olokun, orisha Oku,
(13:13):
the Bejis Edu, which was thethird twin, or the triplet that
came out of the twins Yewa ObaObanani.
The list goes on Yewa ObaObanani, the list goes on Inle.
So there's a lot of differentorishas that cover the elements
of the world, and that'sbasically explaining that this
(13:38):
is what we do.
We are one with the universe.
We are one with nature.
We are one with the earth.
We are one with the air and thewind, the stars.
We are one.
We are one with the universe.
We are one with nature.
We are one with the earth.
We are one with the air and thewind, the stars.
We are one.
We are one source.
The law of the oneness flowswithin us all in a tradition of
IFA, and intermingling withthose energies and elements is
intermingling with those orishasand understanding those powers
(13:59):
and those dynamics.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Got you?
Wow, all right, it's like anencyclopedia man.
Will you break it down like?
So I, like you know before I go, it's how I ask questions.
I'm gonna put this down first.
Um, when you speak of obatala,shango oshun yamaya, right, we
you already have um noted thateach of them deal with the
(14:22):
elements right of the world, theuniverse.
So, if somebody can youdescribe the characteristics of
Obatala Like?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
if they say this person has Obatala on them.
Yeah, I can describe the Orisha.
And then what I've been doinglately is doing the true essence
of a child of an Orisha,because an Orisha is very
different than a child of anOrisha.
That is the biggestmisconception.
This is what I've beenpreaching at and teaching,
because people think, oh, shangois this way, so that means I'm
this way, and that's not how itworks.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Go ahead, let it go.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
That's not how it works, man.
I think one video made Shango.
He's like they are.
That's not how it works.
I made a series I've done likefour of them, the true essence
of the child of Arisha.
I broke it down what a child ofan Arisha is as opposed to an
Arisha.
So, to answer your question,his essence and his energy and
his energy and flows and powerdeals with the body, the temple,
(15:22):
and he's the owner of the head,which represents everything
within the head temple, and he'sthe owner of the head which
represents everything within thehead intelligence and wisdom.
He's the creator.
There are many different pathsof different orations.
That's something to consider aswell.
One is paths that he created.
You know the destiny and hehelped mold in one of the paths
of Obatala Ajala when heactually created the destiny
(15:42):
that we chose before him.
Then we chose it and he createdit, so he works with that.
His colors also represent a lotof who we are.
His color is just straightwhite and his name means the
king of the white cloth, obataala.
So it's a lot about the namesactually mean something.
You know, like yemoja isliterally like yeye, eja, which
is the mother of fishes.
So a lot of times the name justtell who they are.
(16:03):
You like Yeye Eja, which is themother of fishes.
So a lot of times the namesjust tell who they are, you know
.
But Obatala is the owner of thewhite cloth.
The purity represents thecleanness, represents the
character.
You know that cloth couldrepresent character.
They'll say don't let Epo redpalm oil stain your white cloth.
You got to be careful of badcharacter staining that, the
(16:23):
people around you, keeping thatclock clean of impurities.
You got to treat your body likea temple.
You know what I mean clean andpure, all that that can come
with that.
So obatala, that's his energy.
He's a male orisha.
He's considered the father ofthe orishas.
He's very wise and very smart,very intelligent.
Used to be a warrior.
There's many paths with him.
That's like obatala ayaguna,where he was a young warrior.
There's a path in a particularOdu where he decided I'm not
(16:45):
going to fight, no more, and hegave all his tools over to Ogun
and he dressed all in white tobecome a pacifist and to become
who he is.
So there's evolutions that theOrishas go through too.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I have heard that before, even down within the
Voodoo culture I hear peoplethey personify certain laws and
you know, now that you're sayingit, even in sensory ether
people be like well, you knowI'm a child of this, so I do
personify that characteristic ofthat particular Orisha and you
(17:16):
know they start behaving as suchand I'm like you know that's
some kind of psychosis.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
To me it is psychosis and it's also like a
misrepresentation.
You're not quite understandingwhy.
You are a child of a certainratio.
So if you're a child of Obatala, it doesn't mean it just means
you need him.
You need the things that he canbring you health.
If you're a child of Ogun, itdoesn't mean that you want to
fight all the time.
(17:42):
He needs to protect you,possibly from surgeries.
He needs to protect you,possibly from surgeries.
He needs to protect you fromviolence that can come on you.
You know you might be a child ofShango.
It doesn't mean you're like awarrior and a king and you're
like no.
You just mean there's going tobe battles in your life that
you're going to fight.
Maybe community battles it maybe.
(18:03):
You know're not necessarilyhave to be shanggu.
You know what I mean.
I said, if you ever get achance I'll send you the video
when I went off on my stopstereotyping these orishas, stop
trying to blame your characteron orishas.
You talking like you're just aclass 8b and you can't shut your
mouth.
And you said because I'm achild of ochun.
I said, man, keep ochun outyour mind, man, just because you
don't know how to shut up, man,I was like don't fucking hear
(18:23):
me, I got you right there.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Hold on, bumble.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Cloud.
Nah, it's.
You know, what I'm saying.
I've seen y'all too much.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
You know what I'm saying Nah, that's Yo, it's
crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
That's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
But I have a question Like what is an Odu?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I'm glad you asked that question like what is it?
What is the odoo?
I'm glad you asked that.
Um, so the the odoo's are thecorpus of the word of an orisha
called orun mila, the one whoknows your destiny.
Orun mila, the one who knowsyour salvation, the one who
knows your destiny, is what heis, and the corpus, his word, is
(19:03):
called ifa and within the 256there's a binary code, a system
of codes, an index ofinformation of how to tap into
portals and energies andvibrations of very frequencies,
and each Odoo tells you who youare.
Each Odoo tells you this.
So that's why I was about tosay that it's not about the
child of Arishu, it's your Odoo.
If your Od dude says you got abad character, your old dude
says temper.
(19:24):
Your old dude says no patience.
If your old dude says this, ifyour old dude says that the
susceptibility to all, to drinkand to this, that's within your
old dude, that's telling you thevibrations of your DNA, that's
matrixing within the universe.
That's all.
It's not about the original,it's about your old dude.
Great question.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
That's mathematical right there.
That's science for your asspeople.
It's so dope how you said that,how you put that in a proper
framework.
So it's finally, your destinyis through your Odu.
And how can you determine?
You said through Odu how canyou determine that a person has
(20:00):
a particular Orisha on them?
Are there any procedures that'staken?
Protocols, rituals?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So I think what you're asking is how do we
reveal their head, Arisha?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, your head Arisha, how do you reveal?
Your Ori, as they call it.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Well, ori is different than your tutelary
Arisha.
Your Ori comes with you before,during and after Earth.
That is your best thing, thatis with you always, that
accompanies you already Now theArishaisha.
So the basic fundamentals and Ialways speak fast because
there's always a lot ofinformation and I know it's
going to be recorded, so I justkind of just go ahead, you're
(20:33):
good they can play back.
Let's do this.
So listen, the the concept is.
The basic concept is you choseyour re, you chose your destiny,
your re was witness to that andthen, within that, you chose an
orisha.
So you chose a destiny.
You chose your destiny, your rewas witness to that and then,
within that, you chose an orisha.
So you chose a destiny.
You chose experiences, youchose trials and tribulations.
Okay, and that was chosenbefore you came to earth.
(20:54):
The one who was witness wasarumila they call my letting
ping which is witness to yourchoice of destiny and of god and
your re.
Then it was chosen this is mytrials and tribulations, this is
the orisha that's going to helpme overcome this in life.
That's why it's very importantto have that marked or revealed
properly.
Okay, and with that is the onewho was witnessed was Orumila.
(21:16):
So when you come from, you knowyou're going to get into these
politics and you're going to getinto people who don't work with
Baba Lawu and all that otherstuff, and you're going to get
into people who don't work withBabalawus and all that other
stuff, and they determinebasically there's a special
reading that's determined who isyour, who is the Orisha, to
reveal that, who is the one thatwants to be seated, who's the
one that's ready to guard yourori, who is the select head with
(21:38):
that special readings for that,and I'm going to give you my
strong opinion.
It should go to Arumila becausehe was a witness.
And it's done on a sacred opan,ifa, which we bring down Arumila
to the ground.
It's done to complete ifacorpus.
It's done in person.
We mark the odus and inscribeon top of the opan ifa, sacred
ifa tree.
(21:58):
We present everything to yourhead.
We ask Arumila in person and wefind out and ascertain and
reveal who is your or headorisha.
Okay, I always say it revealsvery important about the word
I'm choosing.
We didn't mark it then, itwasn't marked then that was
decided and marked before youcame to earth.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
We are revealing this information I like that very
scientific methodical in it.
You know, I I noticed that whenyou speak, when you define
these terms, you you use a lotof etymology and linguistic,
like you're showing the root ofthe word, what it means.
I like how you're breaking thatdown, man.
Yeah, you know listen.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I don't like to say a lot.
You know I may not know a lot alot of prayers, a lot of songs,
because I like to know what I'msaying.
You know what I mean.
And then I like to do myhistory.
You know, I like to have alittle me.
Sometimes there's this chanceyou're like hey, just say this,
it means something.
You know what I mean and youmemorize it, but I like knowing
information about it.
You know, I like to know alittle bit understanding and
(22:55):
educate myself that's dope,that's dope man.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
So, um, say like um, let's go about this right.
Right, if somebody comes to youlike they come to you and be
like I'm having a particularproblem whatsoever, I feel like
I have a negative energy that'splaced upon me.
How would you go about findingthem a solution you know?
(23:19):
Reveal to me.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Divination, my man Divination.
So if I so, I always explainthis.
It is no different.
So let, if you go to a doctorand you say, hey, I got a
headache, I need you to fix it,the doctor don't know nothing.
He, he's got to do blood work,he's got to take some x-rays,
he's got to do a medicalbackground, he's got to do some
(23:43):
questions, he's got to check youout after a thorough background
.
It can come from yo doing yourblood work, you're deficient in
your blood, you're low in youriron.
This is what's causingheadaches.
Or it can be like, you know,you got some other deficiency
going on, and or it can be likeyo, I checked you out, you got
nothing but stress.
Right now, that's the thingthat's causing you headaches.
(24:09):
You know what I mean.
Or it can be like yo take someAdvil, so you don't know what I
was doing proper.
Look, so someone comes in to meand says, yo, I think I got a
spirit on me, or my roads areblocked.
You know, can you prescribe aremedy?
Every remedy has a solution.
So let's say your roads areblocked.
I don't know if your roads areblocked because you're making
bad choices and I need to getyour head right and redirect you
(24:30):
, of course, correct some of thepath you're walking.
I don't know if it's a spiritthat's a latch down you.
I don't know if it's witchcraftthat's a latch down you, I
don't know if it's like you know.
All those will require adifferent remedy, or a different
elbow, which is a remedy youknow.
So divination helps meunderstand exactly what the
problem is and what the cause is.
Sometimes divination willreveal you don't have a problem,
(24:51):
no more, it's fine.
They all got a bad spirit on me.
Our ruler says you're fine, youknow what I mean.
And it's like there's someother issues going on, picking
up on mental problems.
You know what I mean.
Let's investigate this a littlebit.
You know what I mean.
On the flip side, someonethinks they got mental problems
and I took someone off of.
There was bipolar medicine,there was all these other types
of medicine what a P?
(25:12):
I forgot what it was All thesedifferent medicines for
depression, prozac and someother ones.
So it turns out that they had aspiritual problem.
They went off to medicine andthey're like yo, I still feel
alright without taking thismedicine.
Now my doctor wants to doubleit on me.
I said you're fine, my man.
It's like that's a diagnosis.
That's what a reading does man?
It's like that's the diagnosis,that's what a reading.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
does I like that.
I like that If you could breakdown, just for the sake of
listeners and viewers.
What is the Igbo?
I know some people spoke aboutit on this platform before, but
I want to hear your perspective.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, I watched the lady, the Santera, that was on
there.
You told me to check out yourYouTube.
I saw what she did.
I was able to watch it.
You know what?
I mean shout out to y'all byswimming yeah, I was like
there's been a real busy week.
I had some ceremonies, so I hadto just kind of you know browse
through to kind of get a vibefor what you are.
You know what I mean andeverything she did a great job.
She seems really authentic man.
(26:02):
Blessings to her man.
Oh, y'all bless her, so proudof where she's come.
I, I and just she just did awonderful job.
But um, as far as ebo, ebo,yeahB-O.
EBO all it is, no, no, no, it'sall good.
Ebo all it is is.
It means a lot of differentmeans, and EBO is basically your
(26:23):
solution, your remedy, and thatcan consist of many things.
That can consist of fruits andofferings, what we call adimum.
Sometimes they can involve asacrifice, sometimes they can
involve course correctingobedience.
That's a form of an Ebo.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
So a lot of the Ebo.
What was?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
recommended.
What was your remedy?
Is the remedies markedDifferent types of remedies,
different types for whateversolution.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
All right, that's dope.
That's dope because I heardpeople you know in the past
spoken about that.
Like you know, you gotta runinto the woods sometimes.
I'm like what, like stuff, likethat you know, man, here's the
deal.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
There's a lot of people that when they're not
really knowledged and studied,they will mark unnecessary
things.
A real priest I shouldn't say areal priest, but a priest
that's working with the personsand your intent is to help the
(27:26):
person.
It should be like let me find,let me start small and work my
way up.
You know, sometimes things canbe solved, which is we have a
tale of Arumina, which is called.
You Don't Care, arumina, Icould just pass this over to you
, and that's all Arumina saysman, you don't need this, you
don't need any of that, you know.
And then sometimes there's someextravagant things, but there
(27:46):
is a time and a place for allthat and I ain't going to say
nothing about that.
But, like you know, I side eyecertain things.
If it's consistently, you'repaying big, big money doing
these extravagant things andit's like let's look to help the
person, man, let's see, let'snot do unnecessary remedies.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
You know what it is too, and this is something
across the board in all thesediaspora practices.
And again, if you're offended,maybe you have done it.
People, you got a lot ofprophets out there that's just
for profit.
False prophets for the profit.
Uh, what's, what's the word ofcharlatans out there that have
elaborate altars and all kindsof things, and when you go there
(28:27):
, they can't even kill a roach.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I could say this over the last 10 years maybe five or
10 years the interest in thistradition has skyrocketed and
with social media, it justreally created the velocity of
interest.
Interest comes, predators,interest comes a lot of people
looking at as a cash cow andlosing the principles of why we
(28:52):
are on the other side of thistable.
Of helping somebody is for theperson.
It's not to make money first.
The money and compensation willcome in its right place, but if
you're looking for that firstand you're doing things of that
nature, it's going to catch upto you and people will not
follow you.
Man, I've been in places.
Man, I've been in some darkplaces.
Man, in my life, financially,yo, man, I'll tell you, I've
(29:13):
been there Like I'm looking forfood to eat because I was trying
to practice this religion,going full time in my botanica
in 2008 when the real estatemarket crashed and I got people
needing my help and I'm liketrying to make rent and I got
family and a baby I'm doing,really, my baby in my carrier
and I'm trying to make rent andfeed my family, and you know,
and a person comes and says youknow, listen, I'll pay whatever,
I just want to get this girlback.
(29:35):
I want to do this love spell.
You know I'll pay $1,000.
And I'll be like, listen, Ican't help you.
Or someone feels I feel I got aspirit in me.
I think I need an exorcism.
You know, I think of testing me.
I know it was a richest testingand over time I built up a
(29:55):
reputation in that group.
You know what I mean.
You try to make a quick buck.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
You're gonna have a quick fall yeah, of course, and
that's that right there that youpossess is called integrity.
You have integrity some peopledon't have that integrity.
They, just as you say, they tryand get that quick buck.
They want a high style profileand be like pay for a
subscription.
I'm like listen, you know, toeach your own.
It's a business.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yo, you know, as you said, go, you know, go in there
and collect your coins, but whenyou, when that fall comes,
you're gonna fall hard yeah, Ibelieve if anybody's paying for
something I don't you know I'mnot knocking anybody when it
comes to money, what they charge, you know I mean tights and all
that other stuff.
You know what I mean.
I I would say like, listen, ifyou're going to make someone pay
for something, make surethey're getting something for it
(30:35):
, not just give you money fornothing.
You know what I mean.
I've done some stuff for you onthat.
But I hear you, what we callIwa Pele, we call character, iwa
is character.
There's many different types ofIwas Iwa Peba, responsible Iwa
sotito, honesty.
You know what I'm saying.
(30:55):
So there's a lot of differentIwas that we need to be
interacting as a we're humanbeings first.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Mm-hmm Got you, so I have this question for you,
right?
How do sacred places, altarsand shrines reflect the
cosmology of Santeria?
Say that one more time.
How do sacred spaces?
Speaker 2 (31:25):
altars and shrines reflect the cosmology of
Santeria.
You know we have altars, wehave our sacred spaces.
Altars have generated from thebeginning of the genesis of
Santeria.
You know, santeria is just aname for the religion in that
time.
It reflects the time of thatreligion and the Santeria had a
lot of statues and a lot ofCatholic statues.
Now, you know, we have sacredspaces that we still put in our
homes and shrines.
(31:46):
There's nothing wrong with that.
You know what I mean.
We have adapted to ourdiasporic conditions in our
environments.
Right, you know, back in theday in Nisheche in Nigeria there
were certain cults of certainOrishas and they had the
community town shrine and theyhad the head priest or the
parent or the head of the familyand that was the shrine and
that was it.
(32:06):
We don't have that.
We have to kind of create ourown spaces within our own
privacy of our home, and this isthe genesis for the need.
A lot of the religion that wehave was birthed out of the
necessity to adapt to ourenvironment.
So, yes, we had to bring incertain altars in our house, we
had to create certain things incertain spaces and that reflects
the cosmology of how we areinteracting with our within our
(32:30):
home so that's dope right there.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
So when you know the cosmology of the altars, like I
have seen altars, what they callbovedas, with like three
glasses, some, some, so theboveda is a spiritual altar that
represents the spiritual vaultof the geyser spiritual
ancestors, and then there'sorisha altars.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
As you know, they're separate, but the bovada is
something that is a very um,that would be more of the
santeria part that evolves, ofthe bovada, of the glasses and
the certain prayers.
But you know, I alwaysrecommend a bovada because that
that is your conduit.
The water is the conduit andthe source, the vibrations for
(33:10):
energies and spirits to becalled in, and you create like a
vault and that can be yourdedicated sacred space.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Alright, so can you describe a Santeria altar?
Because I have seen likeWelcome Past Botanicas.
They have these elaborate likepots, or I don't want to say
urns, but it's like theseelaborate like fine china pots.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
I have seen like these things looking like so,
over time, in Santeria, whatwould they adapted what they
call soperas, which is basicallya soup tureen, and they have
them are born with the colorsand the implements that
represent those orishas.
And those orishas, you know,anything that is started out in
its form, it could just you canbuy it from Chinatown or you can
(33:52):
get it whatever.
But once it's consecrated, onceit's appropriately washed,
prepared, birthed of an Orisha,housed the Orishas, it becomes a
vault, it becomes very sacredenergy that you're holding a
portal of Asher within your ownhome and then Olo Orisha, which
is the term for Santero, orSantero Olo, all back to all
(34:12):
owner of heaven, all orishabasically means you own orishas
and you have a part of thattangibly.
That's one of the beautifulthings of this tradition is that
we're not just praying toelements.
We've been able to tangiblytake some of that.
I take some of that I share andhouse and have that within our
home and within our space gotyou.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
that's dope, bro, that's so.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
in order to have that done, you got to have a priest
or a priestess come by and dothe whole initial setup for you
Well in order to have the ownOrisha, you have to have been
undergone the ceremony for oldOrisha, which is crowning Yoko
Ocha, which just means theseating of Orisha, and when you
(34:54):
make Santo I don't like to usethe word Santos or Santeria, but
basically, when you make Santo,or when you crown Santo, or
when you Yoko Ocha and you thoseare all terms for going under
initiation for a priest, orishaor Santero then you have been
given your Orishas that arebirthed in these pots properly.
Then you're housing this your,your, your orishas that are
birthed in these pots properly.
Then you're housing this.
(35:14):
I said that came from somebodyelse's orishas.
Life comes from life, so theywere born from the godparents
orishas.
Then you take those orishas andyou house them in your home
properly and have taught how toattend to them and contain them.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Got you.
That's dope, man, that's dope.
It sounds very similar to otherpractices, man.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Of course, man.
That is how it works.
That's why, when you get thecriticism between the slantari,
or lukumi and hisheshi, I'm likeman.
They're different expressions.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Hmm, all right.
In what ways does possession byan orisha transform both the
possessed and the observers?
Speaker 2 (35:59):
I don't know if it transforms, but it's so funny.
Today I just dropped two videosabout possession.
I did, I dropped it like aboutfour hours ago.
I did, I dropped it like aboutfour hours ago.
You know, possession comes fromwhat they call a person that
can get possessed first of all.
So did you say, by Orisha holdon.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
They get like coming to possess, like say the um.
So in what ways does possessionby an Orisha transform both the
possessed and the observers?
Like the energy, like how doesit?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah, so when they're possessed by an Orisha, because
you can get possessed by yourlike a spirit, like a human
spirit, like what we call Moetoor Egun, which is the ancestors.
But for those who are possessedby Orisha, they have to have
one been initiated to have thatashe intertwined when you crown
Orisha.
It is a symbiosis.
It creates an intermingling oftwo energies, of your soul and
(37:02):
your body, and this Orishabecome intertwined.
That's why I say this is asymbiotic religion.
And once you do that, some arewhat they're called elegun and
that means you are a horse, youcan be mounted, and that not
everybody has that.
But if you are crowned andinitiated and if you are an
elegun, the orisha can then comedown, and usually it's done at
(37:26):
ceremonies where the music wasplaying and they're invoking
these orishas.
And if it's the right setting,sometimes the orishas will come
down.
How it transforms or whathappens, you know what it does
is that person.
That Elagun becomes the bridge.
It becomes the bridge betweenthe people that are present.
That Orisha came down for areason wanted to show power,
wanted to communicate, wanted tobless or clean the people, and
(37:54):
they're blessed with.
Actually, an Orisha can touchground and be within you as if
they're walking on earth againand sort of like a temporary
reincarnation to come in andbless someone, to talk to them
directly without needing amedium.
So when it's done properly it'svery beautiful notice.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
I said when it's done properly yeah, of course I
respect that because because youknow, I have heard from you,
know friends, I have that, Ihave that practice, this culture
yeah and I would make a cleardistinction.
You know those that knew andthose that was like, as they
seen the streets, was false flagand false claiming where they.
(38:25):
They said um yo, if you passspirit, you can't be a baba lao
stuff like that.
I have heard you can't be aBabalao stuff like that.
I have heard you can't be aBabalao.
I have heard that before.
Is that true?
Is that some truth that is?
Speaker 2 (38:40):
true.
So there's two taboos in theLukumi tradition, and one of
that you cannot be a Babalao,and one of them is if you get
possessed, it doesn't mean youcannot be an Olorisha or Santera
or Sano.
But a Babalao is a differentrealm.
A Babalao is a different typeof level of initiation because
it's born from a Lofi, and thething about a Babalao is a
Babalao can never be that elegun.
(39:01):
He can never be that openportal for a spirit and or
Orisha to overtake his body.
He has to be in control.
He sometimes is the master ofceremonies, he's sometimes
holding and wielding a knife.
He has to be in control.
Imagine if a Babalaw was thereand he's trying to divine or
he's taken over by a spirit.
It just there has to be someonewhere that door is closed.
And so that's one of theprerequisites to becoming a
(39:23):
Babalaw is not being an elegum,but Ororisha, all of that, or
spiritualist, or someone thatmounts spirits, or or muertos,
or angles, or ancestors.
You know that all happens, butthose are different realms.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
But to be to.
Yes, that is a thing withinBabalawos.
So is it bad because I haveheard this within some within
the Haitian voodoo culture andhearing this from you is it bad
to be mounted at a?
Say you go to a ceremony like a, as you guys call it, a tambone
or a ceremony, is it a badthing to be mounted?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
No.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I know the dangers of it.
You know if you're aroundnegative people they could do
things to harm you.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
But I mean that goes with let's eliminate.
Like the environment.
Let's say the environment isapropos or ideal.
It's never a bad thing.
You know what I mean.
It it's never a bad thing.
You know what I mean.
It's a racist.
It can come down.
Most people want to be thatelegant.
That's why people try to forcethose possessions.
You know what I mean.
They try to make it happen.
It's like it's just nothappening.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
You know what I mean.
It's the fate.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
You get the theatrics , but the real ones, the real
ones.
It's beautiful and again, whenit's done authentically, it's
always done in a setting that'sin a controlled environment.
This is why you always want tobe around your elders.
This is why you want to go withelders.
You want to be around anenvironment where you can be
trusted.
You don't want to be just somerandom Santero going to some
(40:42):
random people's town borders anddrumming and getting possessed.
No one there to take care ofyou, look after you.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
You always want to go with your posse.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
You always want to go with your elders.
You always want to go in placeswhere you feel comfortable.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Definitely that protection because you know
people have heard horror stories.
People are just mad, horriblein general.
Man, oh man, all right, so wespoke about the beads and all
that we spoke about beads yeah,we spoke about the b said you
got your at a young age, yourwarriors and all that.
He said like how, how are yourwarriors are selected?
How, how were you giving yourwarriors?
Like, what's the process ofthat?
You don't have to go, you knowtoo too deep to violate code and
(41:22):
ethics, but how do how does oneget, get their um warriors?
Speaker 2 (41:25):
yeah, warriors.
First, I want to mention thatyou know, anytime you get elek
is your necklaces, you getwarriors.
You're handing me fiveinitiations or crowns, and my
strongest, strongest opinion,that's something that should be
done when a person Intentionally, voluntarily, wants it not done
(41:46):
because they've been forced,not done because they've been
told to not told because it'scoming up and you need help.
And now you've got to get thesewarriors told to not told
because it's coming up and youneed help.
And now you got to get thesewarriors.
It's something that you do whenyou learn about them and you
want to take that next step andyou want to get closer.
You know.
So Ilekes are necklaces andbeads.
The etymology of the word beadis prayer, so having prayers and
orishas are connected, whichyou want your warriors.
(42:07):
That is a living orisha ofEligua.
There is something verypowerful and secret that goes
inside the vessel of an Eliguathat has life and again life
gives life.
So it's born from thegodparents.
Eligua.
The Ogumpa will be born fromagain the godparents.
And there's an Osun, which is asilver rooster that represents
your head in Orin.
It's put up high and if itfalls, it's warning of impending
(42:28):
danger.
How do you get them.
You know it has to be given toyou by a priest.
Typically, warriors are givento you by Babalawos, especially
those that work with Babalawos,and the Babalawo will prepare,
he might do, he will dodivination to determine how to
construct your personal Ligua.
He will construct the.
Let me tell you what I would do.
(42:49):
I would divine on it.
I will find out what the Oducomes from.
I will find out the path ofthat particular igua.
How is it going to beconstructed?
What is it going to be housedin?
The shell or cement?
How is it going to be Put theload in?
There's a charge, secret charge.
Put the stuff in it.
Semantic All myself, I never getthe most.
It has nail that representsthat he's a warrior and a red
(43:11):
parrot feather is very importantthe pluma de loro that puts on
top as well.
Put beads of a rumila to let itknow that it was made by Baba
La'u.
And then, once I construct thatand have the ogupa and the osu
particularly prepared, then Ifeed them the appropriate
animals, from mine to the next,and then it's given life, and
then I was able.
Then, from there they areliving orishas, vibrating with
(43:33):
life and like what now is bornfor this person sole purpose to
defend and help this person.
Who's going to receive them?
And then I present them to theperson, instruct them how to
intend to them, how to take careof them, how to house them,
what to do, and you continuethat relationship with them
that's dope.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
You know I'm gonna reveal something.
You know, and when they hearthis that people will be bugging
.
I'm like what I received?
One, I got a.
I got a dear friend of mine Icall my godmother.
You know I call a godmother.
You know I'm going to real hername with salute to her.
There's raw like real to thecore.
I remember one time I was goingthrough A crazy point in my life
(44:12):
and I was going through a crazypoint in my life and I was
given something that had likethe black and red beads around,
like I don't know was it a rockor something, but it's like a
square shaped thing.
And I was given this thing.
I kept it on me and I noticed alot of negative things were not
(44:32):
happening around me.
So one day I was out in a crazypublic outing and I think I
believe I misplaced this thing.
Well, I knew I lost it.
I'm like yo, it's not in mypocket.
I got, couldn't find it, canyou believe?
The next day I woke up thisthing was under my pillow I
thought I was bugging I thoughtI was bummed, like no, I had
this with me, right, I rememberI had.
I had everyone looking everyonelike, yeah, yeah, I remember you
(44:53):
had it.
You know you took it out, youknow it was in the car, man you
know, when you do stuff likethat, you start questioning your
sanity.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Like wait a minute, yeah Whoa.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
That's what's up.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
That's what's up.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
That was El Igual.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
You go, no matter what tradition you are in.
He was there for you for areason.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
That's beautiful, definitely, and I remember the
song like yeah, have me like youknow.
I was like, oh, this, this song, you know, might, might dance
to this, to this.
The question I have is how dopractitioners navigate the
stigma and misconceptionssurrounding Santeria, aoife and
(45:44):
leukemia?
Speaker 2 (45:46):
That's a big one.
I've talked about this a lotand I made a lot of videos as
well, trying to explain thatthis religion was born out of
secrecy.
There's no need for that anymore.
The culture was hiding it.
The culture was doing thingsbehind closed doors in basements
(46:07):
and hiding your orishas.
I got calledas.
I got called out.
I was doing a video and I hadmy necklaces.
I had my ilikas.
I had a bunch of them out.
There was a few peopleridiculing me.
You're not supposed to havethem out.
What are you doing?
What's with all these necklaces?
(46:28):
I'm like listen, I've alwaysbeen very proud of my religion.
There's no need for us to hideit.
I was at an airport.
My family and I were travelingto crown somebody in Florida, my
daughter, who's a Shango priest.
She's very proud man, she'svery religious man, she's 23.
She had her necklaces out andsome lady came up to the airport
(46:52):
while we're waiting at the gateto kind of board the plane and
she's like you know, thosenecklaces, you need to put them
away, you don't sit there andyou don't have them out.
My daughter was, like you know,a little timid.
So she kind of like OK, kind ofcovered them up and came up to
me.
She's like, dad, that lady over, like you told her to put her
(47:13):
necklaces away.
And she's like, yeah, you know,I was supposed to.
I was like listen, we don'thide, I said, my religion.
We don't hide the religion.
I said she's crowned and I'vebeen crowned for 30 years.
On it say yeah, this is myreligion.
When I made Baba Laos, wheneverything changed for me, I was
(47:35):
still in the sacred room insidethe seven-day ceremony.
My godfather sat us all down.
He goes you're Baba Laos.
Now you guys are high priests,you guys are priests of this
religion.
You're ambassadors.
You don't hide this religion.
If someone asks you what thatis around your wrist, you tell
(47:55):
them what it is and you tellthem who you are.
You say this religion and itchanged my life.
I said no, there's no hiding,no more, I'm not going to be up
all loving my religion and yetdenying my religion to someone
who asked about it.
Because why?
Why?
Because there's a stigma.
Yeah, we do animal sacrifices.
Let's talk about it.
You know what I mean.
You sacrifice an animalreligion.
Come with the Muslims.
They do their ceremonies too.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Come for prayer.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Come on Like the rabbi wanted Come on, listen,
don't cry to me.
Come after the Jews too, forthe young compare and they
sacrifice a chicken on the dayof atonement.
Come on, let's do this.
You want to do the sacrifice ofAbraham when he killed his son.
You guys do that ceremony everyday in the Middle East and
Islam.
Well, come out to everybody.
What about you Christianseating meat every day?
You know what I'm saying.
You didn't care about theanimal.
(48:35):
At least, when the animal dieswith us, it dies with pride, it
dies with sacrifice, humanely,with prayers, and we release the
spirit to heaven.
Come on now, what are we hidingour religion for?
Like?
Why don't you Listen?
I'm questioning you.
I'm questioning you, tell, I'mquestioning you.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Tell him Now, I'm with you.
I like that.
I like that Because you knowyou shouldn't have to hide who
you are to make someone elsecomfortable, make yourself
comfortable, make somebodycomfortable Now that it's
getting popular.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
You see a lot of artists like Beyonce coming out
with her songs and talking aboutshe's in a religion.
You know you heard a song withmy ocean energy.
You know.
You know they're coming outwith it now because, because
it's accepted.
But where was you 10 years ago?
I know you were in it beforeyou came to that song.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
It's always like that .
I'm telling you.
People do that all the time.
They do that man, not me.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
I've been proud of this religion before it was
popular.
Look at me, funny.
I went through all that andthem side eyes and judging my
family, judging me.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
Being that we're speaking about Oshun, how does
oshun embody love, beauty andfertility?
Speaker 2 (49:36):
because you don't have to think, yeah, no, listen,
the auto-erasures embodydifferent things and I did a
video on the true essence of achild, of oshun.
Um, you know, tune comes tobring, you know, love andlove,
okay.
And a tomb represents a lot ofthe womb of the woman, the
creator, and every ceremony,every, I should say every
(49:59):
initiation, every priestinitiation, whether it be a
Olorisha, santero or a Babalao,there is a trip to the river and
that is because we got to goback to her waters.
If we want to be reborn again,we got to go back to her waters,
which represents the ambioticfluid and that represents us
going back to the womb, gettingrefreshed, getting cleansed.
(50:19):
Ok, it's nice to know she canbring you love, she can bring
you warm, it'll chew on bodiesat all, and that's when we tap
into those energies and shegives us that love, that tough
love and also that self-love.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
And I hear that definitely you can't.
It can't be, it can't always beeasy.
Life itself is a challenge.
Polarities it ebbs and flows,so it is.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Our lives are difficult and your reaches are
here to help us get through thattough time so how?
Speaker 1 (50:47):
how are god godparents chosen in this
practice?
Speaker 2 (50:51):
all right, I've done a video on that too, called
choosing elders, called choosingelders man, and, and the thing
is here I'm going to give youthe three steps, I'm going to
tell you how, I'm going to tellyou how it should be done, and
I'm going to give you the threecriterias.
Don't choose elders.
Don't choose someone by theirlocation, instead by their
reputation.
Don't look for titles, look forcharacter.
(51:11):
Okay, don't choose someone bytheir location, instead by their
reputation.
Don't look for titles, look forcharacter.
Don't look for someone that canspeak the language but can
speak the message of Ifa.
Mr Mikey, brother, give me alittle sound.
I thought you were going to doa sound.
All right.
One more, all right.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
I got you another one , needs his shots yeah, I'll get
shot up now.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Hold on, all right.
So the whole like don't.
Don't choose elders by location, choose them by reputation,
because sometimes we think, oh,they must be in nigeria, they'd
be better, or they in cuba,they'd be better.
Oh, they're down the block,they're in my city.
They must be the ones I need togo to you have to go where the
where you are connected to.
Okay, because would you?
Would you trust a specialistthat is for your life, that is,
(52:01):
that might need to do surgery,and you're choosing a doctor?
Would you say, well, he's downthe street from me, he's down,
he's five minutes down thestreet, down Fullerton Avenue in
Chicago.
Or you be like yo, there's aspecialist up in New York that's
specialized in this, has got agood background, has got good
reviews.
When it comes to your life andlifelong decisions, you go where
the reputation is.
It doesn't matter location.
It doesn't matter if it's faraway that you think it doesn't
(52:21):
matter.
Choose reputation, look atreviews, look at the community,
things like that.
Now, you don't look for titles,you's a chief.
I don't care if a dude's gotcrowned this much money or this
many years An ultra, I don'tcare if he's got this, he's got
that.
He can still be an asshole.
Excuse my language.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
He can still be an a-hole.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
You know what I'm saying?
He can still, it doesn't matter.
He can be a legit priest, havean author, be a chief and still
rob you from your money becauseyou don't have character.
Look for character, not titles.
And the other one is don't lookat him while he speaks Cuban or
Ubin or you know.
I want someone that can speakCuban Spanish.
No, look for someone not justspeaking the language but speaks
(53:05):
the message of Ifan, someonethat can throw an old dude and
look at the signs and speak themessages that need to be told
for you.
When you find those qualitiesand you take your time and you
do your research and ask thecommunity, you should be fine.
Build a relationship.
Go slow before you make anydeep commitments.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
That's peace right there.
And with that being said, mybrother Baba Victor, I
appreciate you coming outtonight, my brother.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
My pleasure man.
I did a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
You are knowledgeable , very expressive, detailed,
clear.
You didn't do all that hoopla,all that extra talk when people
be you know they be beatingtheir chest and all this stuff.
Nah, you kept it clear, conciseand very beautiful.
Man, I appreciate you forcoming out here.
Where can people find you at?
Man, drop your handle on thereand let the people know where
(53:55):
they can find you.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
I have a website gotbabaorg, like got milk.
It's called gotbabaorg.
All right, I just started.
Since April, I started reallyposting things on TikTok, baba
Victor.
I think that's where you mighthave found me Starting a YouTube
channel, baba Victor.
But if you really wanted tofind me or any kind of like
(54:20):
focus session with me oranything, baba Victor has my bio
, has all the links.
I used to have an Instagram forTemple.
We recently found my temple butit got hacked.
Someone hacked it and theninstagram locked me out.
Not just that, man, I'm justgonna go with tic tac, I'll be
all right leaving them.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Definitely, baba victor.
I appreciate you, brother.
Keep doing the great work.
Man, we got to connect again.
Speaker 2 (54:44):
You know they're gonna ask for you to come back
um, there's so much more I wantto talk about, so so much
definitely man that's why Ispeak fast, because there's so
much I want to get out nah, it'sall good.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Nyp's the home, come yo.
Anybody else that's listed.
You got something to speakabout?
You bring it up on here.
Papa victor here, if you haveissues, reach out to him, your
brother will take care of you.
Don't forget to comment, like,share, subscribe.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
My people, my people and we out.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
Peace, my brother.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
Thank you.
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