May 15, 2025 • 47 mins
The West Coast of New Zealand offers world-class fishing but demands extreme respect, with veterans sharing hard-earned wisdom on staying safe in these challenging waters. Five local legends reveal how they've survived decades fishing this untamed coastline while witnessing the sometimes fatal consequences of poor preparation and decision-making.
• West Coast fishing described as "second to none" but protected by dangerous conditions
• Fishery relatively untapped compared to East Coast due to challenging weather and access
• No islands or sheltered harbours to provide safety when conditions deteriorate
• Drowning statistics reveal 192 recreational fisher deaths since 1980, with 66% occurring on rocks
• Only 26% of rock fishers wear life jackets, while 36% can't swim more than 50 meters
• Proper safety gear includes fitted life jackets, appropriate footwear (not gumboots), PLBs
• Fishing with mates creates crucial safety network for emergencies
• Local fishing clubs provide vital knowledge, assistance and community safety systems
• Bar crossings require careful planning around tides, swells and wind conditions
• Recovery efforts for drowning victims create lasting trauma for rescuers and families
If you're heading out fishing, check weather forecasts, wear appropriate safety gear, tell someone your plans, and remember - no fish is worth your life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to the New Zealand Sport Fishing
Council Pod and Reel podcast.
I'm Mike Plant from the NZSFCand today we're back out west.
In this episode you'll hearagain from five legends Craig
Ross, duncan Clark, chrisO'Neill, dr McKinney and Mark
(00:22):
Gill.
They've been fishing out westcoast for decades.
Some of them even grew up there.
Some patrol the surf.
All of them have one thing incommon a deep respect for the
ocean and for the brutal lessonsit can teach.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Growing up, I always fished out west because there'd
never been anyone really outthere.
Obviously, the population'sgrown and the word's gone out
through social media that thewest coast is a pretty awesome
and special place to fish.
The tides are changing, so tospeak.
There's a lot more individualsout here now and it's putting a
lot more pressure on ourlaunching and retrieving
(00:55):
facilities, because we don'treally have many.
Our car parking is prettylimited at most spots and at
Little Huia we can onlyfacilitate 60 to 70 trailers
most spots and at little huia wecan only facilitate 60 to 70
trailers and we're exceedingthat on any half decent weekend
in the summertime now markdoesn't mince his words, so I
ask him why, with all thedangers, the fish are still
doing it.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
What's the fishing really like?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
which is awesome to see people are enjoying it.
That's the reason why I'vealways fished out west, because
there's some awesome trevallyout there.
Shellfish is pretty good A lotof mussels, kinners, powers if
you know where to look andobviously crayfish and the like,
the kingfisher there in thesummertime and there can be some
awesome catches taken off therocks.
There's quite a few clubmembers that have had
(01:38):
substantial catches over theyears.
A second to none is a fisheryyand it's relatively untapped.
It's protected by the weather.
That's the issue and that'swhere we lead to these incidents
occurring quite regularly.
Unfortunately, it's by peoplepushing the boundaries to get
that fish of a lifetime.
No fish is worth your life everand that's why the West Coast
(02:01):
fisheries are not establishedlike the East Coast fisheries
are, for argument's sake, theBlue Funtuna fishery around
Waihau Bay at East Cape.
That fishery there's a similarfishery on the West Coast, maybe
not as big in biomass, butthere's a fishery there.
But because of the weatherconditions at the time of the
year when they come up, we don'thave much access at all to find
(02:23):
them and if there is anyone outlooking for them, it's only one
or two boats.
We're dealing with an untamedbeast out on the West Coast.
There's nowhere to hide.
To get to Shouts out on the WestCoast you have to come through
a bar or come onto a big surfbeach if the conditions
deteriorate.
On the East Coast we've gotislands to hide behind.
(02:48):
We've got harbors with no bars.
It's a lot, lot safer on thewest coast is nothing.
It's you, your boat and the andthe waves.
That's what's always put peopleoff it.
That's the reason why I'vealways fished out west, because
there's no one there and thefishing's 10 times better than
the east coast craig ross frommurawai tells us how good the
fishing is at the end of thespring and the start of summer.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Our season starts.
We have a pretty busy year.
November is when the bigsnapper is sort of off the coast
and that's where our snappercomp the Muralwide snapper comp
is based around that.
So we've got a month to catchthe biggest snapper or the
longest snapper, but we don't goout there and, you know, fill a
chili bin because, yeah, we'llgo out there and catch four or
five, but the snapper fishingout there is second to none.
(03:28):
Like we don't snapper fish anyother time of year because we
get spoiled.
Then.
You know, it's just.
You know, literally, if youwant to have a beer, you've got
to pull your bait out of thewater and have a beer.
You can't have a beer and enjoyfishing because you're flat out
, you know, soon to get a fishon.
Yeah, no, it's insane, it's.
(03:49):
And yeah, you, I'll take peopleout and they come out with a
two hook ledger rig and I'm likeyou need to cut those hooks off
because you're going to be sickof unhooking fish.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
You know, just, fish with one hook and um, yeah, it's
full ball catching a fish for afeed's one thing, but giving up
your life for a feed's another,totally different thing.
It's the people you leavebehind in these situations.
You know your wife, you'regoing for a fish and you don't
come home.
It seems a pretty basic thingto do and we're all entitled to
(04:15):
do it, but it doesn't mean youhave to.
I'd taken the boat down thebeach before and left home, and
I'm literally five minutes fromthe ramp, got to the beach,
stood there and in that halfhour everything's changed and we
don't bother taking the boatoff the trailer.
Go home and put everything awayand have a beer and talk about
it.
You know that's the reality ofit.
You don't have to go.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
That was Duncan Clark , also from Piha Deep Sea
Fishing Club.
Both Duncan and Chris O'Neillhave been awarded for their
efforts in rescues of fishermenover the years, and they've seen
the good, the bad and the ugly.
And so has our next guest, drMick Kearney.
Mick is also a surf lifeguardand works for Drowning
Prevention Aotearoa.
He's had hands-on experience,but also wades waist-deep in the
(05:03):
drowning data on the daily.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
One of the key things is not wearing a life jacket
and not being able to swim.
I mean, that's just the numberone thing, literally not even
able to float.
You know, if you're going to gofishing off the bricks on the
West Coast with a big swill andyou don't have a swim or you
don't have a life jacket, you'rea bloody idiot.
There's no ifs or buts about it.
I mean, generally, a lot of itis sort of recent immigrants to
(05:26):
New Zealand.
You know they're coming in andfishing different areas which
they may not used to, becausethe west coast of Auckland,
north Island, it's a differentballgame to a lot of places
where people have beenpreviously.
A lot of it is recentimmigrants and it's guys.
It's guys getting in trouble.
I mean I've got some stats here.
And it's guys, it's guysgetting into trouble.
I mean I've got some stats here.
You reckon there's about 210,000people fish off the bricks.
(05:48):
Yeah, 42% fish with mate, sothen that's almost 60 don't.
So that's not a good thing.
Only 26% wear a life jacket, sonot another good thing.
36% don't even check theweather, so they don't know
what's going on.
And I hear this oh yes, sweet,even check the weather, so they
don't know what's going on.
And um, and I hear this oh, yes, sweet as whatever, but um,
(06:09):
over 33 of them are drinkingbeers there as well, you know.
So you're making, um, probablynot the best, uh, decisions at
times.
And um, this is a realinteresting stat 36 of the rock
fishers can't swim more than 50meters.
Yeah, so that's.
It's like, mate, you're puttingyourself on a hiding to nothing
.
And over the years since 1980to 2023, there's been 192 bodes
(06:33):
of recreational fishers die, ofwhich 127, or 66% of those, have
occurred while fishing off thebricks.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
It's pretty humbling hearing those statistics.
Mick the Kiwi, she'll be right.
Attitude kind of rings true toa lot of things that you just
said.
I have a few drinks becauseI'll be right.
I won't take a life jacket,she'll be right.
I won't tell a friend, she'llbe right.
Is that the biggest problemhere?
For us going fishing is maybejust a bit of complacency and
(07:03):
thinking, hey, you know, it'sall good until it's not all good
.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
Yeah, yeah, and that's right.
I'm proud of biggeneralizations here.
But you've got bods who've beenfishing off the bricks for
years and it could beintergenerational.
You know, their granddad'staken them, their dad, their
uncles, you know and they'refishing it.
Then They've got like so muchbloody knowledge passed on like,
oh, you only fish this spot, onthis swell angle, at this side,
(07:28):
and if you fall in, we've got arope and then you, this is how
you get out, that's massive,that's like that mataranga, or
knowledge held by those bodsthat are fishing, like that huge
.
But then you get someone whorocks up there and this doesn't
have that knowledge.
Well, they're in a world oftrouble.
You just got to pray like hellthat there's, um, someone like
that around to help you if youfall in the drink.
It's that that simple.
If you're taking a mate fishingand you're organizing, you're
(07:51):
bloody responsible mate, like ifyou're taking someone fishing
and they're not good around orin the water, mate, you got to
be, you got to have your shittogether because you never
forgive yourself if you lose amate.
That went just because of you.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Chris, Chris O'Neill from Pihar has a warning for
rock fishers.
Speaker 6 (08:07):
That's the other thing we're probably going to
see.
With them locking up some ofthe easy spots on the east coast
and those reserves, it makesthe west coast look way more
appealing, you know,particularly for rock fishing.
You know it's like Pihar'spretty easy walk to the rocks,
you know, and you can catch afeed which is.
You know, and you can catch afeed which is.
You know it's bloody hard tocatch a feed on the East Coast
off the rocks now withoutdriving for two or three hours.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
So that's going to, you know that's going to really
push the numbers up, I reckon,and not just the rocks, like
also the boats crossing theManukau Bar.
Guys are seeing the marlin, thepelagic fish, the tuna that are
being caught out West andthinking, geez, I'll give it a
go.
But what are they reallygetting themselves into, you
know?
Speaker 4 (08:46):
And quite often the gear's not maintained.
You know, and that's what Itouched on earlier, is
especially older boats, whichyou see in the Manukau a lot,
that are, you know, underpoweredand overstaffed, shall we say.
But yeah, these craft that aremaking it out aren't really
seaworthy to be on the Manukau,let alone over the bar and out
in the open ocean.
So you've really got to pickyour battles.
(09:07):
You can't go into this stuffwith your eyes closed.
It doesn't take any prisoners.
Speaker 6 (09:12):
There's no one else.
If you fall off the rocks, thatcan actually go in the water
and get you, Because you knowCoast Guard's fine if you're
offshore and they can, you know,fish someone out of the drink
outside the surf.
But rock fishermen fall andthey normally find them a meter
away from the rocks or clingingonto a rock and coast guard they
don't do that.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
So your only options then are like either a lifeguard
or a helicopter you've seenlike a lot of guys going out
past where you guys are basedout to the rocks, solo fishers
quite often.
What are the most commonmistakes you see from guys
fishing off the bricks?
Speaker 4 (09:46):
oh, first of all, no life jacket, and it doesn't have
to be a bulky life jacket.
It can be one of thoseinflatable.
You know manual inflatable pfds.
Classic is gumboots, becauseyou know it's really good for
walking over rocks, but they'reum, they're good sinkers too,
once they're full of water andjust fishing on the wrong day.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
You know like there'll be guys out there today
.
It's um well, it's actually nottoo windy, but it's
thunderstorms and stuff and thesurf's pretty big.
But there'll definitely be rockfishermen out there now and
it's just.
You know it's a waste of timebut it's also just so dangerous.
You know there's just they goin there.
We won't be able to get themtoday we'll go and have a look.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
We'll go and have a look, but there's no guarantees
we'll get you yeah, like youhear a lot, oh, I'm a good
swimmer, I'll be sweet, but canyou kind of walk us through?
It's hard to swim in gumboots.
Yeah, yeah, you know.
Or especially if you've knockedyour head or broken your ankle
or something right?
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yeah, exactly yeah.
When you're falling off therocks, it's not generally a swan
dive into the drink you'retrying not to go in, so they're
grabbing hold and, as you say,they're bashing their heads and
bashing their bodies andbreaking limbs.
And quite often the ones we dorecover they're quite badly
bashed and bruised and rock rasheverywhere and, in a lot of
(10:54):
instances, only partiallyclothed as well, if at all, and
that can be a half an hour in asurf situation where they're
getting tumbled about and alltheir clothes get stripped off
and you're pulling in a nudebody.
That's unfortunatelyunrecoverable.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
So we've talked about gumboots, but what kind of
footwear and outfit would yourecommend for a guy who's going
off the rocks?
What would be your?
Hey, this is a safe person.
If you saw them walking pastthe club rooms, you'd think, hey
, this guy knows what's up.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
It's the middle of winter, so this time of year I'd
be staying in the pub.
I'd be in the pub, yeah,probably wearing a wetsuit, to
be honest, because you're like Idon't know, the water's
probably about 15, 16 degreesnow, so you're like your useful
time, even if you can climb ontoa rock and keep your head above
water in deep trouble prettybloody quickly anyway, just
(11:46):
because of the temperature.
So, yeah, so there's that.
There's one is you know thatyour temperature, your wetsuit
gives you a bit of protectionfrom um losing all your skin on
the rocks as well, and somethinglike crocs or those um wetsuit
booties, something like that oran old pair of running shoes
yeah, something's got to belight yeah, kick off if you have
to.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Um, you know crocs would be my go-to, but they have
got holes in them, I supposeyeah, what's the reality like
for you guys when something doesgo wrong, because you guys
volunteer at the fishing club aswell as at the surf life-saving
club at times, some summer paidguards obviously, but you guys
have lives to live and you knowyou.
You might be at a kid'sbirthday party or something like
(12:24):
that, and then the bell ringsright.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Just at the pub even we had some shirts printed about
a few years back now and theywere bottled to throttle in two
minutes and that was frownedupon.
But that's the reality of it.
We can literally be sittinghere and the thing goes off and
you put down whatever you'redoing and I think the quickest
I've ever got there's aboutthree and a half four minutes
(12:46):
from home and then get the gearout and get into the water.
So it's a solid 10 minutesbefore you're actually able to
do anything.
Speaker 6 (12:52):
Yeah, it always happens at like an inopportune
time as well, you know, likewhen you're just starting to
cook dinner or something and thereality is like we're on the
beach here, we're five minutesfrom the beach.
By the time we've got down tothe club, got a wetty on, got a
radio and a boat ready, it'slike most of the time it's too
late.
You know, like guys, 15 minutesin the drink, guys can't handle
(13:13):
that.
You know, without a life jacketthey're going to be dead
already.
So and then you know, when youdrown, you sink to the bottom
nine times out of 10.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
So you know, we spend a few hours looking and that's
what 90 of them are.
I mean, we've had one casewhere a um, a gentleman, I mean
it was four meters swell, so theguy was an idiot on it, you
know.
But he actually drowned in hislife jacket because it was too
big for him and he, um, heobviously fell in the water,
tried to get back up in therocks, knocked his head, but, um
, when we got to him, his elbowswere caught in the in the holes
of the wetsuit and his head wasdown underwater and he had died
.
So that's the thing If you'regoing to get a life jacket,
(13:49):
preferably over the top of yourwetsuit, get something that fits
well and that won't get washedoff if you do fall into the
drain.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, that's some really good advice, guys,
because I see a lot of peoplejust borrow life jackets or
might even have the inflatableones, but the canister hasn't
been checked for a couple ofyears and that's expired or
rusted right out.
So you know, having probably afoam life jacket that's good
fitting, is the recommendationright for hitting the rock
Absolutely, and you don't haveto wear it while you're walking
(14:17):
there.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
You might be cooked to your backpack or whatever
you've got, but as soon as yougo near the water, put it on.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
It's that simple and then leave it on and they're
warm as well you know, they takethe wind factor off everything
what about ropes or harnesses oranything else like that?
Are you seeing the guys do thata bit, or is it kind of um?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
quite funny.
In the last 10 years there'sbeen a group of asian fishermen
and they started off with allthe gear and look pretty, uh
pretty, switched on, but as theyprogressed they ended up
trading in their gunboots forsneakers.
They have, uh really, they'vegot wetsuits on, they've got
really good fitting life jacketsand because of where they're
fishing, as rock overhands, theyactually they're wearing um,
hard hats as well, with a chinstrap, you know.
And um, I was on the beach.
(14:59):
They wanted past.
There's four of them.
They obviously all fishedtogether and I was on the beach
and they wanted to pass.
There's four of them.
They were obviously all fishtogether.
And one of the other younglifeguards laughed.
He goes, oh, look at thoseclowns.
I said, mate, they're thesmartest clowns I know.
You know they might look funnybut they've covered all their
bases.
And actually one day they wereout there and another Kiwi guy
went out for a fish and only hadhis shoes and his wetsuit on,
(15:20):
but but he didn't have a lifejacket and he ended up falling
in and it was a solid half hourbefore we got to him.
And these asian guys theydidn't speak good english but
they could do enough to throw arope to him, keep him attached
to them, but they couldn't gethim up on the rock.
So by the time we scooped himup and it was only half an hour
he was hypothermic, verythankful.
But these guys you know they'dsaved his life really kept his
(15:42):
fishept, his fish too he did ehyeah.
Speaker 6 (15:45):
yeah, he was a good snapper.
He was a big snapper.
He was trying to retrieve asnapper but he got washed off a
rock and they kept it for him.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Mark Gill has seen his fair share too.
As a club member, he also hearsthese stories of near misses
often.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Over the years of the incidents I've come across
personally around the beaches,harbours and rocks people
injuring ankles, rolling ankles,broken legs, 30 minutes away
from the road, down tracks.
Fortunately the Westpachelicopters are quite skilled
and they can do pretty goodwinch jobs, but you don't want
(16:20):
to be stuck in those situations.
All sorts of carry-on we comeacross from people stuck in the
mudflats and vehicles in theharbour stuck up on the beach,
on the beaches.
The amount of carry-on thatgoes on is you couldn't believe
it if you tried.
Generally speaking, over thesummer months there'd be some
(16:41):
sort of assistance requirednearly on a daily basis by
members from outside of ourcommunity, whether that's
launching boats, getting stuck,breaking down in boats, paddling
out on kayaks to have a quickcast and getting stuck in the
current Volunteer fire brigadeat Huia.
Over the years have had toassist multiple times with
people getting stuck down tracksA lot of the time.
(17:02):
Coming back from fishingexpeditions land-based ones
looks towards us and points thefinger at us as a club, whereas
as if it's one of our members.
Nine times out of ten, ifthere's a club member involved,
we're there assisting or helpingthe general population, like on
the Manukau Bar.
The amount of boats that goover, more often than not, the
(17:23):
first person on the scenes aManukau Sportfishing Club member
or a county's Manukau Bar.
The amount of boats that goover, more often than not the
first person on the scenes aManukau Sport Fishing Club
member or a county's ManukauSport Fishing Club member.
It's not the Coast Guard, it'snot the police, it's us.
We're the first ones therehelping and there's a lot of
guys in the club, a lot ofskilled skippers and skilled
fishermen, and we're there atthe moment's notice, if
something happens, to try andhelp anything we can.
(17:45):
I've pulled up onto the rocks atWaterpool to pick up a guy that
had been fishing and he had ahook stuck in his leg because he
couldn't walk out.
So I put up onto the rocks andhe jumped on front of the bow of
my boat and bring it back toHulia so he could get off the
boat, into the vehicle and gettaken into the hospital.
That kind of stuff.
No one wants to be involved inthose situations but if they
(18:06):
arise we have to help.
It's like the law of the land.
A lot of the time guys are inthe harbour they don't have
their VHF on.
They're out there and having aday with their family.
They're in the harbour, theydon't know anything's going
wrong, but yet a K down theharbour or a K up the coast,
there's a rescue operationunderway.
I've been involved in one onthe Manukau Bar, retrieving
(18:29):
people from the water in theNorth Channel, and I didn't know
anything about it until I seenthe police helicopter fly
overhead, flicked it onto 16 andthere was a mayday.
So we ripped out and gaveassistance and unfortunately,
recovered some bodies from thewater and they did not survive.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
If you're doing a mission off the rocks or the
beach, what kind of gear are youtaking with you?
That's safety gear as well asthe fishing gear.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Before fishing gear there's a safety gear.
So you're looking.
If you're going rock fishing,you're taking a life jacket.
That's the first thing you takeis a life jacket, making sure
you have at least two forms ofcommunication.
A cell phone doesn't cut it.
You're fishing the West Coast.
It's not good enough for youronly source of communication
Vital to take a PLB.
(19:16):
It's vital.
A PLB $500 and it can reallysave your life or save one of
your friends' lives.
And if you go into the waterfor PLB, people can find you,
you know, and ultimately it cutsdown a lot of the risk factor
for the rescue services as well.
So, firstly, life jacket, plbwearing appropriate clothing.
You're not going around therein your red bands and your jeans
(19:39):
or your track pants.
You know.
You're wearing clothes that areappropriate for the conditions
and the environment you're goinginto.
You're cloning, bring overrocks.
You want good, decent footwear,fairly light and with steady
ankle support, so you're notgoing to take those tumbles.
A lot of guys get into somedeep go right around the rocks
and a lot of the time they'reusing ropes to get around to
places and that.
And that's all good and well ifyou're experienced and you know
(20:02):
how to deal with that.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
But if you don't just stick to the closer areas, that
are more easily accessible, Ithink the thing guys forget
quite often is you're walkingaround, but if you've got a good
kingy or a couple, of goodsnapper in the bag there's a bit
more weight and and that foryour tricky exit as well as your
(20:24):
entry.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah, yeah, if you're wearing, if you're wearing your
flip-flops or your um gumbootsand you're coming back with uh,
some got, you can have a good,awesome day and coming back with
20, 30 kilos extra fish in yourbackpack, you've got to have
all the gear from the foot tothe head, the whole way up and
making sure you've got a lifejacket.
So if you do go on the drinkand you hit your head, you're
not going to drown.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I think that's the big one is a lot of people think
look, I can swim, but it's alot harder swimming with a head
injury or a broken arm orsomething like that from the
rock fall.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
It's a lot harder swimming against the rocks full
stop, particularly when you'reon the coast.
Between the Manukau all the wayup to Muriwai, there's awesome
rock fishing.
If you slip and you go into thewater, nine times out of 10,
there's some sort of swell there.
Typically it's a meter, meterand a half on an average kind of
day, and if you enter the waterin those conditions, try
swimming.
If you're inexperienced orexperienced, even try swimming
against the rocks with the wavespounding down on you.
(21:22):
You're always going to come outsecond best.
The first mistake people make isthey value a fish.
A fish's value to them is morethan their own life.
You can't go out fishing whenthe conditions are unfavourable
Marginal conditions you stay athome.
If you can't go out fishingwhen the conditions are
unfavourable Marginal conditionsyou stay at home.
If the swell is big, if thetides are wrong, you stay at
home.
You can go to the beach, butyou don't have to throw the
(21:42):
surfcaster out or set thecontiki.
You don't have to do that.
If the conditions don't allowyou to fish, you can't fish.
You have to stop what you'redoing and reassess.
You have to stop what you'redoing and reassess.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Dr McKinney says it's all about the planning before
you get out there.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
But even before that you've got to get prepared.
Can you actually swim?
If you're fishing off thebricks and there's a swell
running and the slippery rocks,there's a good chance you're
going to end up in the drink.
Now, if you can't swim afloat,that's it, and that's why we've
got that terrible record ofblokes fishing off the bricks
out west getting into troubleand dying.
One of the things you know youshould be doing is wearing a
(22:23):
life jacket.
You know, even if you're a goodswimmer, you might fall over,
smack your head and well, you'retoast.
But at least then, if you'vegot a life jacket, you can float
, you know.
So, yeah, with that planning,it's not even just.
You know your own personalsafety.
You know you've got to plan.
Where are the good places to gofor the conditions, what's the
(22:44):
swell doing, what's the weatherdoing, what's the tide doing?
You know you want to go outwith some mates, you know.
So if you do get into trouble,someone can help you.
If you're there by yourself,it's it always.
Always check the weather andconditions, you know, and
planning.
Also, how do you take care ofyourself and your mates?
Because it happens quite oftenwhere, um, I'll be fishing with
some mates and they don't knowwhat to do.
(23:05):
And someone ends up in thedrink, and well, how breaks
loose and you know you'll neverforgive yourself.
Um, if things do go wrong, howdo you get help?
Like a lot of the places,that's poor cell phone coverage
when it's like jeez, by the timeyou've got to run over a hill
or something and make a phonecall, it's often too late, you
know.
So all that planning you've gotto look after yourself, know
the conditions, wear a lifejacket, fish with a mate, catch
(23:28):
a plan.
You know, like jeez, if theconditions get dodgy, how are we
going to get out of here, youknow?
And what's our exec strategiesand stuff?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
I think a lot of people put the plan into how I'm
going to catch the fish, butnot the planning on what if it
goes wrong.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Yeah, yeah, you know, it's that fishing frenzy.
Eh yeah, 100%, mike, someonewill get a.
You know you might get a bigmooch, a snapper on or a kingy,
and you forget all the safetyadvice.
A snapper on or a kingy and youforget all the safety advice.
Oh jeez, I'm gonna land thisbugger and forget about.
There's a set wave comingthrough and you get washed off.
But catching the fish awesome,awesome time.
You know fishing with yourmates is awesome.
(24:02):
But yeah, you gotta, you gottathink of all the other stuff.
Get in there.
Getting home safely, you'rejohnny on the spot and a lot of
the guys fishing off the bricks.
They're helping their mates andhaving a rope to be able to
throw to your mate or some formof flotation, even if it's a
bucket.
If you throw that out to themand they invert, it catches air
and they can float on it.
And then the next thing how doyou get them back in?
So, yeah, like throwing a rope.
(24:24):
You know I was having a yarnwith the guy who fishes Papunui
points, you know, south ofRaglan, and those guys.
They take a rope as well, andsometimes you can only throw a
rope so far.
But what these guys do, it'squite classic.
They're fishing 100-pound braid.
They'll just use their rods andcut the hook off and cast over
it, get the bod to grab onto theline and slowly pull them into
(24:46):
throwing distance of the rope.
So it's just a bit of ingenuitythere.
But yeah, having some form offlotation where it's a life
jacket or something you canthrow like a life ring or a
bucket or and then some rope, umto pull them in, it's good.
But you've got to be sort ofcareful as well because, um, if
it's a real big swell running,the last thing you want to do is
get down at the water's edgeand throw a rope bloody hard to
(25:09):
pull someone up.
There's a hundred kg fella andhe's hanging onto a rope and
you're on some slippery rockstrying to pull him up and a set
comes through all of a sudden.
There's two buds in the drinkwhen there's a thing called um
cold water, shock, you know, andthen that that's.
It actually doesn't have to besuper cold, I think at the top
of my head I think it's anythingbelow 16 degrees.
And if you fall in the drinkthere's like a gasping reflex.
(25:32):
You just can't help help it.
You're like ah, ah, you know,and it just freaks you out and
it slows you down.
Now, if you're an on-swimmer,that's lights out, basically,
and you can't swim, you'regasping and you're freaking out.
But yeah, if you're fishing inthe winter, it's that same thing
, like you want to take someclay and that can keep you warm
and even if you end up in thedrink, you want something warm.
(25:53):
Some guys even wear wet suitsand when they're fishing off the
bricks in winter, yeah, lifejackets as well, you can get
those neoprene life jackets andthey'll keep warmth as well.
If you're fishing the northside of te waho point or towards
anafada, fishermen's rock andall this stuff you can't be seen
.
So it's like, oh man, you know,someone gets into trouble.
To be frank, it, it's normallya body recovery by the time we
(26:15):
go and find them.
But yeah, you can see bodswalking out and there's a few
initiatives being implementedwhere for years they've got life
rings and that out there onthose fishing spots.
If people want to use those,that's all good for flotation.
And then also trying toencourage that life jacket where
they've got life jacketlibraries where fishers can, um,
(26:36):
grab a life jacket on site andthen through the surf clubs and
carry it out fishing with them.
Yeah, you can tell a mile awayif someone knows what they're on
about.
Just by what, how they'redressed and even the gear, just
like a surf, you can tellimmediately.
Just looking at them you knowwhether they know what they're
on about so do you think thoseconversations need to be had?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
if, and how would you broach that kind of
conversation?
You see a couple of guyswalking out and maybe they've
got big gumboots on and theyhaven't got a life jacket and
they're kind of looking aroundlike they're almost lost, trying
to find out where they're goingto go.
Is it worth having thatconversation?
Speaker 5 (27:11):
on the beach 100, yeah, so percent, yeah.
So what's happened now?
And this is pretty cool throughAuckland Council they're
actually funding a rock fishingofficer.
So his job is to wander aroundin summer and have yarns, you
know, provide education tips andpamphlets and have a yarn and
stuff.
But yeah, the tricky thing isthere's so many spots, you know,
(27:33):
like, if you can see them, yeahthem, yeah definitely, like
we'll send a duck down or a jetski everything.
Oh, mate, is that guy all rightand just wander up, are you
right, mate?
Yes, sweet as, and just keep aneye on them.
But again, if we can't see you,you're on your own mate, let
someone know where you're going.
I mean, that's just commonsense to some.
If you're going hunting orsomething you know, or you're
going fishing in the boat, yousay yeah, I'm shooting out and I
(27:54):
should be back by X amount, orthe plan that we talked about
before can go out the door.
You know, the boys are theredoing night shift or shift to
work and it's like, oh man, wehaven't caught up to go fishing
for yonks and they've all got awindow.
It's like we've got this oneday and bugger it, we're going
fishing and then that's when allthe bad things happen oh geez,
the conditions aren't right, andX, y, z, blah, blah, blah, but
(28:16):
you're going, hella high waterand that's it, instead of
rocking up there and going ohmate, we're making the call.
It's a bit dodgy, let's do itanother time.
Guys are going and getting intotrouble.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
This is also compounded when doing a bar
crossing and, as Craig explains,there are more people doing
them, so you need to know whatyou're facing and be prepared.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
This year we've done a lot of launching through the
bar because the beach, the sandwashed away from Mirawai the
beach.
We couldn't get the boat ontothe beach.
So this year in particular, itwas just a lot of bar fishing
during the season.
So we met a lot of people thathadn't done it before and it's
just like, and they won't evencall up when they go.
Now, as soon as you see themback at the ramp, give them a
bit of a rundown, like a politerundown, of what the protocol is
(29:00):
.
You make sure you call CoastGuard because we don't want to
be looking for them.
Always make sure you've got alife jacket on.
I've never been through the baror off the beach without a life
will either.
I don't know guys that justcharge on through.
It's crazy, as you know.
Yeah, we obviously looking atthe forecast.
I look at Windy for what thewind's going to do, I look at
(29:25):
surfcom for the swell and I'vegot another couple I
cross-reference against.
But off the beach isn't so badif it's a rising swell because
it's easier coming back in ifyou can get off.
But I mean, quite a fewoccasions we've gone out and
it's been too big to launch andeven when it's a bit iffy I
always ask the crew if they'rekeen to go, because if something
(29:46):
does go wrong, everyone's gotto buy into the responsibility
of going out, not just me sayingyeah, I'm going to go If no one
else is happy.
I've done it a couple of timeswith the old man.
He only let me turn around.
I just tell him to hang on.
As you get older, you get wiseras well.
I used to go out in some crazyweather, but not anymore.
I've only got the kids with menow, so it's a bit more subdued.
(30:12):
So off the beach he's sort oflike a metre and a half.
You're pretty comfortable aslong as it's not too much wind
on top and not close to highwater.
If it's an incoming tide closeto high water, it's going to be.
Normally it gets a bit messy.
It's always a bit harder tolaunch than it do and through
the bar we've got a bit of anunwritten rule If it's sort of
one and a half metres risingswell, don't go, because
normally if it's a rising swellit rises quicker than what the
(30:34):
forecasts are telling you.
That's my experience.
You know it can rise quickerand you get caught up.
We've been caught out therebefore in big swells, you know,
rising quicker and bigger thanwhat the forecast was.
Normally if it's a fallingswell, it falls quicker than
what they say as well.
So if you look at it thefollowing day and you think it's
going to be too big, say aswell.
(30:55):
So if you look at it thefollowing day and you think it's
going to be too big, and quiteoften it's actually dropped
quicker than what the forecast,so you can still sneak out there
, just take a punt.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
I mean I'll sort of guys thathave not necessarily joined the
club, but I've met them at theramp at Shelley Beach because
this year we've done a lot ofbar fishing during the season,
(31:19):
so I met a lot of people thathadn't done it before and it's
just like and they won't evencall up when they go now, as
soon as you see them back at theramp, give them a bit of a run
down, like a polite run down, ofwhat the protocol is always
make sure we've got a lifejacket on.
I've never been through the baror off the beach without a life
jacket in my life.
I never will either.
I know guys that just charge onthrough.
(31:42):
It's crazy.
I've been stuck out at thetrench.
I had a boat with 20 outboardson it and one of the props spun
a rubber on it.
On the props I only had oneoutput to go and it was right on
dark, sort of.
From that experience I alwayscarry spare parts with me for
props.
I had one this year where wewere out we'd gone through the
(32:03):
bar in Chogon and we'd caught acouple of marlin and we had a
good day.
So we pushed it right to theend a couple of hours before
dark to cross the bar.
Coming back in it was a um sortof 1.8 meter day, I think.
Coming back in, um we spun aprop.
We were six miles off the backof the bar when it spun and
we're going to do six knots.
So as it worked out, we um, wegot to the bar right on dark.
(32:25):
Luckily we had another guy hungout to help us, you know.
So he just um waited for us tothe bar.
Make sure we got through right,because it was quite choppy by
the time we got there.
It was breaking around a lot ofplaces but luckily we still had
a bit of power just to surf ourway through coming in and the
tide was in our favour as well.
And then I had my cousin.
He was out in one of our otherboats, drove up the beach with a
(32:47):
spare prop, took the prop offmy other boat and then we put
that on and got back home thatway, put that on and got back
home that way.
But we didn't get home untilsort of midnight after that
experience.
That was only a month ago, topof the month.
So you always got to preparefor something going wrong and we
sort of pushed it too far on areasonably big day and that prop
spinning didn't make it easierand Coast Guard's not really
(33:08):
going to take your call from thetrench, you know.
I mean I let Coast Guard know ofour situation, where we are.
I'd rather rely on other localmates around you.
There's a Coast Guard in theHillandsville River.
It's still a fair way away forthem to get down.
They're probably talking 25 or30 miles just to get to the bar
from where they are.
If we're going out the bar,more so than the beach, the bar
(33:30):
we'll always a few calls thenight before who's fishing
tomorrow.
We'll meet you at South Head ata rough time.
We'll cross the bar togethernormally on the way out, whether
we go North Channel or SouthChannel, and then coming back in
at the end of the dayeveryone's talking.
So the channel for Kuiper isChannel 7.
So we always call up before weget to the channel, put a bar
watch through.
It's normally like a 30-minutebar watch and Coast Guard are
(33:54):
supposed to call you back within30 minutes if they haven't
heard from you and they do Quiteoften they do that.
So call before you cross andthen call once you get over the
bar and just give them a roughdepth and location.
You're going to be fishing forthe day and then when we come
back in, it's normally about 3or 4 o'clock everyone calls
we're on Channel 10.
Out there Everyone will radioaround.
Everyone sort of try and crosstogether again coming back
(34:22):
through.
If it's a biggish day as well,everyone sticks together.
If we don't hear anyone on theradio after a bar crossing
sometimes they've been on theirway through we'll call them up
at the last time just to makesure they're still all right.
It takes a bit longer to getthrough.
Having a good crew is crucial aswell Someone beside you that
can read, because when you'reskippering you're sort of
looking at the waves, the firstor second wave.
You need someone reading theback break of what's coming in
(34:45):
and someone you can trust.
If they say go left, you goleft and it's a better spot, not
some of the things.
They know what they're talkingabout and leads you into the.
You need to trust your crew.
Guys say to me I'd rather gowith you than anyone else
because you know what you'redoing.
To a certain point it's right.
But the lower averages, themore you do it, the more chance
you've got of fucking up as well.
So it's two sides to experience.
(35:05):
And then the more you're doingit, the more chance you've got
of misjudging it or somethingyou couldn't even control.
One jacks up in front of you,so it's a hard one to predict.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Mark Gill has also had some close calls.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
There's been a few incidences, a few crossings I've
done on my own and thought,fuck, I shouldn't have done that
.
You kind of learn from it.
The thing is it only takes onemistake on one of those
crossings and it's all over.
So joining a club's prettyessential in my opinion, if you
want to fish out there and havea long fishing career out there,
because if you don't, you ifyou want to fish out there and
have a long fishing career outthere, because if you don't, you
(35:45):
might just be going out thereone or two times before it's all
over.
On the West Coast you're dealingwith quite a unique set of
circumstances.
First of all, we've got hugeharbours, highly tidal harbours,
so there's a massive amount ofwater movement.
It affects predominantly theManukau and the Kaipara harbours
.
The sandbars are built up bythose currents.
(36:05):
The difference between crossingon a one metre swell on a small
tide and a one metre swell on abig tide is chalk and cheese.
On a small tide you can crossnearly any time during the tide
duration.
On a one metre swell On a bigtide you cannot.
You can only cross an hour anda half to two hours either side
of the tides.
The waves stand up when thattide's ripping out and that's
(36:27):
undone a lot of good confidence.
Skippers, over the years, a lotof these incidents have
fortunately been people runningthat buddy system and they've
had other friends there withthem that have been able to help
and other times they've had noone there to help them and when
your boat goes over, don't havetime to call coast guard, you
don't have time, you're in thewater before you know it and
it's you against the water.
(36:48):
We've had club members thathave fortunately managed to swim
to land and raise, raise thecall for help and we've also had
we've had countless amount ofclub members assist people in
the bar that have gone over andquite often when we've come
across these boats, it's onthese days, with the bigger
tides and the swell, with thehigh energy level, a bigger
period.
The swells don't have to be big, they just have to have good
(37:10):
energy in them and that's allthe difference.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
And as Duncan puts it On the West Coast, we've got
nowhere to hide.
You know you've got to keep aneye on the conditions, You've
got to know what you're headingout into and, like has happened
with us, we've gone out, it'stwo foot, you know, calm as a
mill pond.
And you come home and it's fourmetres and everything's changed
.
And in that situation you'vegot to be, you know, be on your
(37:33):
toes.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And there's a couple of instances we've had guys on
the beach keeping eyes on us incase we went over A few of the
other guys talked about, likebuddy kind of setups where
you're always going fishing witha mate or boats are going out
together, or even off the rocksyou're taking someone with you.
Is that how you guys operate aswell?
Speaker 6 (37:52):
Well, we always know someone else in the club who's
out there at the same time.
So that's how it works, youknow, like we've got a rough
idea of where everyone else is.
We never go on our own, really,you know, but it just works out
like that because we've got afishing club, so we're always
yarning.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
And West Coast there's a lot of, as you said.
There's Mirawai, there'sManukau, even Bethel's got a
little club.
That's unofficial buteveryone's out there.
You see another boat.
You go up for a chat, see whatthey're up, to see how they're
doing.
There's one instance we wereheading out wide for a broadie
drop and talking to the otherguy in the other boat right up
(38:27):
to the point where he launchedand he changed his mind he goes,
I'm not going anymore.
And I got out there and I waspretty pissed off because you
know it was a big effort to goout, sort of 40 miles, and I
radioed up to see who was aroundand there was another guy from
the Manukau Club who I knowthrough game fishing and he just
said look, if you know whereyou're going, I'm there and I'll
hang around until you get here.
And he goes, I'll be here forthe next six hours and we'll
(38:49):
fish together.
And we both hooked up and Christhought I brought him for about
an hour, an hour and a half,and Ken's like he dropped a big
shark and he just goes aroundtill you leave.
So you know it's a good, goodgroup of people that maybe not
not our club, but there are guysout there that you know through
getting to know each other outon the water and around and look
after each other which is whatit's all about us stepping up
(39:14):
and looking after each other.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
And to finish this episode, I thought it was worth
asking these guys what's thereality like when it doesn't go
well.
They've seen it all far toomany times already, and dr
mckinney starts by sharing hislifeguarding experience at
united piha mate, it'shorrendous, it's absolutely
horrendous, not only for, um,obviously, the person that's
deceased, their mates and theirfamily.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
When they family rock up to identify a body or
something, mate, it's, it's notnice.
But you also got to considerthe lifeguards or emergency
surfaces or surfers or anybystander ends up dragging a
dead person in.
That affects them as well.
And there's like a vibe, say,at the club and that if there is
a you know, a fatality orsomething, you can almost feel
(39:57):
it.
The vibe in the club is notquite right and that affects all
this other stuff as well.
But yeah, mate, I've seen somehorrendous and that affects all
this other stuff as well.
But yeah, I've seen somehorrendous stuff and you don't
really want to be around whenyou see that sort of stuff.
Go on, the family, the friends,work, colleagues could be a mate
(40:19):
from your rugby team.
It's like, oh, mate, it throwsa whole lot of people.
A lot of it could be oh shit, Iwas just going down to retrieve
a bloody sinker.
Aussies, they've got a classic.
It's something don't put yourlife on the line.
Catch a fish another day, mate,or shit, it's only a sinker,
get another one.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
I think that's where we're at.
A real risk is when you've gotto fish right up to the edge and
you've put the fight in and allthe work's been done and it's
that last moment to bring itover the edge or up to where you
are.
Or maybe you've got a snag,like you said, or a sinker
caught in between the rocks.
What's your advice in thatsituation?
Speaker 5 (40:56):
yeah, mate I, I think that's a big one where um
fishing with um mates like youcan get a mate can keep an eye
on the swell pattern below, makesure there's a swell coming,
give it a break or something Iget.
I guess it's a hard one becausethat's that's.
We'll get that fish fever.
So, oh, man, it's on, it's like.
Can't wait to tell the fellas,you know, and spinny yarn, crack
a few and but again that thatcomes down to the techniques.
(41:19):
Like some guys will have longgaffs or they might have sort of
ropes with like some littlegrapple hooks.
They can slide down their nylonand then gaff the hook.
I mean, get the fish and bringit up.
You know, and even the gun guyswill know certain areas where
they can pull up a fish on aswell.
I'll put it in this little glutbecause I know it'll come up
with the swell and they're allover it, whilst you get someone
(41:40):
who doesn't know that they godown to the water's edge, it's
all on slippery way.
It comes, it's all over.
So I mean, one of the keythings and I often think about
that is you know, you say it allthe time, you know, join a book
club or um, go see someone whoknows what they're doing or get
some lessons.
If you're keen on rock fishing,ask around you.
Go to the local fishing show,oh, mate, because there'll be
(42:01):
oodles of bods.
You know fishing in fishingclubs.
They'll be quite keen to giveyou a hand.
If they only knew.
And they'll be like, yeah, comeand join the club and you know,
you'll be fishing with thosebods.
A lot of them areintergenerational fishers and
there's so much knowledge.
Just don't be bloody scared toask.
You know, for it's just that,yeah, you know to ask him for
(42:25):
help.
And don't be scared to ask forhelp.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Finally, here's Chris and Duncan, who have seen it go
wrong too many times themselves.
Speaker 6 (42:36):
I think the thing people don't realise is how
short your lifespan actually is.
If you fall off the rocks, youknow, like I reckon somewhere
north of 90% of guys who falloff the rocks aren't expecting
to go in the water.
They drown, you know, and mostof them are under within inside
of five minutes.
They've drowned, you know.
So that's how long you've got,really.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
That's if someone sees you and can raise the alarm
.
Yeah, you know we've had guysgo on and no one knows they've
gone.
You just come to the rocks andall the wife will ring up and go
.
You know Bob's gone fishing.
You haven't seen or heard fromhim in four hours.
He's supposed to be home atlunchtime.
And you go there and there'sBob's backpack and all his
tackle and everything else.
There's just no sign of Bob andhe's not bobbing.
Speaker 6 (43:18):
I mean it happened.
There was two this summer rockfishermen.
Both of them were out with abig group of their mates and you
just sort of because I end updoing this a lot, so I
deliberately avoid trying tospeak to their mates or their
family or anything like that,unless it's just trying to get
some information for where theywent in, because it's not worth
(43:40):
it.
It's just too hard.
But you just see their matesjust looking shell-shocked,
basically.
It's that other disbelief theywere having the time of their
life catching a feed and then,literally within 15 minutes,
they're sitting back at the cluband their mate's dead.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
And they've had to experience and watch us and the
Ambos and the Fieries do thebest we can to resuscitate them
and, as I said, more often thannot the mate them and, as I said
, you know, more often than notthey make they've never seen
without a stitch of clothing on,has been washed up, or we pull
them out of the water without astitch of clothing on.
Their modesty's gone.
They've had the worst day oftheir lives and, um, you know,
the mates see it and then thewife gets called and it's just
(44:15):
devastating.
Um, you know, and it sits withus, it sits hard with us because
it is, you know, it doesn'thave to happen and this is the
thing.
If one person in the group hasa doubt, it should be listened
to.
There's no dead heroes, sorry,there's not yet.
Speaker 6 (44:33):
It's pretty bloody, undignified, even if you survive
, you're getting grabbed by somebig meathead and pulled out of
the water.
You'll be butt naked.
You'll be getting dragged upthe beach beach.
If some sort of recess has tohappen or something, people,
it'll be in front of people.
You know there's nothing we cando about that.
So it's yeah, it's pretty, it'spretty heavy situation, you
know it's just if the conditionsdon't look right, don't go.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
It's that simple.
Any doubts?
Don't go.
Yeah, it's just a feed of fish.
You can buy at the fish shop ifyou have to on the way home.
But it's just the devastationon the family that's left behind
, the mates, just that shareddisbelief that their mate, their
husband, their brother, theirson is now dead, when all they
were doing was going for a fish.
Speaker 6 (45:15):
Yeah, particularly if we don't find them as well.
A lot of them, you know they'lldrown and then we'll be sort of
there for a week or so waitingfor them to wash up.
Not all of them wash upsomewhere, you know.
So they don't even have a body,you know, they're just.
Yeah, there's that girl we seein the pub over there.
Oh yeah, there's a girl we knowcomes to PR.
We see her every now and again.
We tried to was it her father,Her uncle, Her uncle.
(45:37):
We did recess on her uncle.
She doesn't live here, butevery time she comes over and
talks to you, and every timeit's just about that, and she
can't ever come to the beachwithout seeing that every time
she comes.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
And pics are scared.
For us too, it's somethingyou've got to bury.
You try and bury under layersand she turns up and all she
wants to talk about is the daywe didn't resuscitate her uncle.
And he's sitting thereunratched.
There's nothing we could havedone about it.
We did the best we could withwhat we had.
Unfortunately, that's just.
She lives with it day in, dayout.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
She can't go as Chris just said, she can't come to PR
and not think about that day Asobering reminder of the
long-lasting effects that thesetragedies have on everyone.
For more information, check theNZSFC or Safer Boating websites
.
The details are in the podcastdescription.
Next week we catch up with thewomen at the helm, Kiwi chicks
(46:37):
out there leading the pack, andwhat they do to make sure they
come home safe.
The NZSFC Pod and Reel podcastis brought to you by the New
Zealand Sport Fishing Councilwith support from Maritime New
Zealand and the Safer BoatingForum.
Thank you.
Welcome back to the New Zealand Sport Fishing
Council Pod and Reel podcast.
I'm Mike Plant from the NZSFCand today we're back out west.
In this episode you'll hearagain from five legends Craig
Ross, duncan Clark, chrisO'Neill, dr McKinney and Mark
(00:22):
Gill.
They've been fishing out westcoast for decades.
Some of them even grew up there.
Some patrol the surf.
All of them have one thing incommon a deep respect for the
ocean and for the brutal lessonsit can teach.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Growing up, I always fished out west because there'd
never been anyone really outthere.
Obviously, the population'sgrown and the word's gone out
through social media that thewest coast is a pretty awesome
and special place to fish.
The tides are changing, so tospeak.
There's a lot more individualsout here now and it's putting a
lot more pressure on ourlaunching and retrieving
(00:55):
facilities, because we don'treally have many.
Our car parking is prettylimited at most spots and at
Little Huia we can onlyfacilitate 60 to 70 trailers
most spots and at little huia wecan only facilitate 60 to 70
trailers and we're exceedingthat on any half decent weekend
in the summertime now markdoesn't mince his words, so I
ask him why, with all thedangers, the fish are still
doing it.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
What's the fishing really like?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
which is awesome to see people are enjoying it.
That's the reason why I'vealways fished out west, because
there's some awesome trevallyout there.
Shellfish is pretty good A lotof mussels, kinners, powers if
you know where to look andobviously crayfish and the like,
the kingfisher there in thesummertime and there can be some
awesome catches taken off therocks.
There's quite a few clubmembers that have had
(01:38):
substantial catches over theyears.
A second to none is a fisheryyand it's relatively untapped.
It's protected by the weather.
That's the issue and that'swhere we lead to these incidents
occurring quite regularly.
Unfortunately, it's by peoplepushing the boundaries to get
that fish of a lifetime.
No fish is worth your life everand that's why the West Coast
(02:01):
fisheries are not establishedlike the East Coast fisheries
are, for argument's sake, theBlue Funtuna fishery around
Waihau Bay at East Cape.
That fishery there's a similarfishery on the West Coast, maybe
not as big in biomass, butthere's a fishery there.
But because of the weatherconditions at the time of the
year when they come up, we don'thave much access at all to find
(02:23):
them and if there is anyone outlooking for them, it's only one
or two boats.
We're dealing with an untamedbeast out on the West Coast.
There's nowhere to hide.
To get to Shouts out on the WestCoast you have to come through
a bar or come onto a big surfbeach if the conditions
deteriorate.
On the East Coast we've gotislands to hide behind.
(02:48):
We've got harbors with no bars.
It's a lot, lot safer on thewest coast is nothing.
It's you, your boat and the andthe waves.
That's what's always put peopleoff it.
That's the reason why I'vealways fished out west, because
there's no one there and thefishing's 10 times better than
the east coast craig ross frommurawai tells us how good the
fishing is at the end of thespring and the start of summer.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Our season starts.
We have a pretty busy year.
November is when the bigsnapper is sort of off the coast
and that's where our snappercomp the Muralwide snapper comp
is based around that.
So we've got a month to catchthe biggest snapper or the
longest snapper, but we don't goout there and, you know, fill a
chili bin because, yeah, we'llgo out there and catch four or
five, but the snapper fishingout there is second to none.
(03:28):
Like we don't snapper fish anyother time of year because we
get spoiled.
Then.
You know, it's just.
You know, literally, if youwant to have a beer, you've got
to pull your bait out of thewater and have a beer.
You can't have a beer and enjoyfishing because you're flat out
, you know, soon to get a fishon.
Yeah, no, it's insane, it's.
(03:49):
And yeah, you, I'll take peopleout and they come out with a
two hook ledger rig and I'm likeyou need to cut those hooks off
because you're going to be sickof unhooking fish.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
You know, just, fish with one hook and um, yeah, it's
full ball catching a fish for afeed's one thing, but giving up
your life for a feed's another,totally different thing.
It's the people you leavebehind in these situations.
You know your wife, you'regoing for a fish and you don't
come home.
It seems a pretty basic thingto do and we're all entitled to
(04:15):
do it, but it doesn't mean youhave to.
I'd taken the boat down thebeach before and left home, and
I'm literally five minutes fromthe ramp, got to the beach,
stood there and in that halfhour everything's changed and we
don't bother taking the boatoff the trailer.
Go home and put everything awayand have a beer and talk about
it.
You know that's the reality ofit.
You don't have to go.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
That was Duncan Clark , also from Piha Deep Sea
Fishing Club.
Both Duncan and Chris O'Neillhave been awarded for their
efforts in rescues of fishermenover the years, and they've seen
the good, the bad and the ugly.
And so has our next guest, drMick Kearney.
Mick is also a surf lifeguardand works for Drowning
Prevention Aotearoa.
He's had hands-on experience,but also wades waist-deep in the
(05:03):
drowning data on the daily.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
One of the key things is not wearing a life jacket
and not being able to swim.
I mean, that's just the numberone thing, literally not even
able to float.
You know, if you're going to gofishing off the bricks on the
West Coast with a big swill andyou don't have a swim or you
don't have a life jacket, you'rea bloody idiot.
There's no ifs or buts about it.
I mean, generally, a lot of itis sort of recent immigrants to
(05:26):
New Zealand.
You know they're coming in andfishing different areas which
they may not used to, becausethe west coast of Auckland,
north Island, it's a differentballgame to a lot of places
where people have beenpreviously.
A lot of it is recentimmigrants and it's guys.
It's guys getting in trouble.
I mean I've got some stats here.
And it's guys, it's guysgetting into trouble.
I mean I've got some stats here.
You reckon there's about 210,000people fish off the bricks.
(05:48):
Yeah, 42% fish with mate, sothen that's almost 60 don't.
So that's not a good thing.
Only 26% wear a life jacket, sonot another good thing.
36% don't even check theweather, so they don't know
what's going on.
And I hear this oh yes, sweet,even check the weather, so they
don't know what's going on.
And um, and I hear this oh, yes, sweet as whatever, but um,
(06:09):
over 33 of them are drinkingbeers there as well, you know.
So you're making, um, probablynot the best, uh, decisions at
times.
And um, this is a realinteresting stat 36 of the rock
fishers can't swim more than 50meters.
Yeah, so that's.
It's like, mate, you're puttingyourself on a hiding to nothing
.
And over the years since 1980to 2023, there's been 192 bodes
(06:33):
of recreational fishers die, ofwhich 127, or 66% of those, have
occurred while fishing off thebricks.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
It's pretty humbling hearing those statistics.
Mick the Kiwi, she'll be right.
Attitude kind of rings true toa lot of things that you just
said.
I have a few drinks becauseI'll be right.
I won't take a life jacket,she'll be right.
I won't tell a friend, she'llbe right.
Is that the biggest problemhere?
For us going fishing is maybejust a bit of complacency and
(07:03):
thinking, hey, you know, it'sall good until it's not all good
.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
Yeah, yeah, and that's right.
I'm proud of biggeneralizations here.
But you've got bods who've beenfishing off the bricks for
years and it could beintergenerational.
You know, their granddad'staken them, their dad, their
uncles, you know and they'refishing it.
Then They've got like so muchbloody knowledge passed on like,
oh, you only fish this spot, onthis swell angle, at this side,
(07:28):
and if you fall in, we've got arope and then you, this is how
you get out, that's massive,that's like that mataranga, or
knowledge held by those bodsthat are fishing, like that huge
.
But then you get someone whorocks up there and this doesn't
have that knowledge.
Well, they're in a world oftrouble.
You just got to pray like hellthat there's, um, someone like
that around to help you if youfall in the drink.
It's that that simple.
If you're taking a mate fishingand you're organizing, you're
(07:51):
bloody responsible mate, like ifyou're taking someone fishing
and they're not good around orin the water, mate, you got to
be, you got to have your shittogether because you never
forgive yourself if you lose amate.
That went just because of you.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Chris, Chris O'Neill from Pihar has a warning for
rock fishers.
Speaker 6 (08:07):
That's the other thing we're probably going to
see.
With them locking up some ofthe easy spots on the east coast
and those reserves, it makesthe west coast look way more
appealing, you know,particularly for rock fishing.
You know it's like Pihar'spretty easy walk to the rocks,
you know, and you can catch afeed which is.
You know, and you can catch afeed which is.
You know it's bloody hard tocatch a feed on the East Coast
off the rocks now withoutdriving for two or three hours.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
So that's going to, you know that's going to really
push the numbers up, I reckon,and not just the rocks, like
also the boats crossing theManukau Bar.
Guys are seeing the marlin, thepelagic fish, the tuna that are
being caught out West andthinking, geez, I'll give it a
go.
But what are they reallygetting themselves into, you
know?
Speaker 4 (08:46):
And quite often the gear's not maintained.
You know, and that's what Itouched on earlier, is
especially older boats, whichyou see in the Manukau a lot,
that are, you know, underpoweredand overstaffed, shall we say.
But yeah, these craft that aremaking it out aren't really
seaworthy to be on the Manukau,let alone over the bar and out
in the open ocean.
So you've really got to pickyour battles.
(09:07):
You can't go into this stuffwith your eyes closed.
It doesn't take any prisoners.
Speaker 6 (09:12):
There's no one else.
If you fall off the rocks, thatcan actually go in the water
and get you, Because you knowCoast Guard's fine if you're
offshore and they can, you know,fish someone out of the drink
outside the surf.
But rock fishermen fall andthey normally find them a meter
away from the rocks or clingingonto a rock and coast guard they
don't do that.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
So your only options then are like either a lifeguard
or a helicopter you've seenlike a lot of guys going out
past where you guys are basedout to the rocks, solo fishers
quite often.
What are the most commonmistakes you see from guys
fishing off the bricks?
Speaker 4 (09:46):
oh, first of all, no life jacket, and it doesn't have
to be a bulky life jacket.
It can be one of thoseinflatable.
You know manual inflatable pfds.
Classic is gumboots, becauseyou know it's really good for
walking over rocks, but they'reum, they're good sinkers too,
once they're full of water andjust fishing on the wrong day.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
You know like there'll be guys out there today
.
It's um well, it's actually nottoo windy, but it's
thunderstorms and stuff and thesurf's pretty big.
But there'll definitely be rockfishermen out there now and
it's just.
You know it's a waste of timebut it's also just so dangerous.
You know there's just they goin there.
We won't be able to get themtoday we'll go and have a look.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
We'll go and have a look, but there's no guarantees
we'll get you yeah, like youhear a lot, oh, I'm a good
swimmer, I'll be sweet, but canyou kind of walk us through?
It's hard to swim in gumboots.
Yeah, yeah, you know.
Or especially if you've knockedyour head or broken your ankle
or something right?
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yeah, exactly yeah.
When you're falling off therocks, it's not generally a swan
dive into the drink you'retrying not to go in, so they're
grabbing hold and, as you say,they're bashing their heads and
bashing their bodies andbreaking limbs.
And quite often the ones we dorecover they're quite badly
bashed and bruised and rock rasheverywhere and, in a lot of
(10:54):
instances, only partiallyclothed as well, if at all, and
that can be a half an hour in asurf situation where they're
getting tumbled about and alltheir clothes get stripped off
and you're pulling in a nudebody.
That's unfortunatelyunrecoverable.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
So we've talked about gumboots, but what kind of
footwear and outfit would yourecommend for a guy who's going
off the rocks?
What would be your?
Hey, this is a safe person.
If you saw them walking pastthe club rooms, you'd think, hey
, this guy knows what's up.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
It's the middle of winter, so this time of year I'd
be staying in the pub.
I'd be in the pub, yeah,probably wearing a wetsuit, to
be honest, because you're like Idon't know, the water's
probably about 15, 16 degreesnow, so you're like your useful
time, even if you can climb ontoa rock and keep your head above
water in deep trouble prettybloody quickly anyway, just
(11:46):
because of the temperature.
So, yeah, so there's that.
There's one is you know thatyour temperature, your wetsuit
gives you a bit of protectionfrom um losing all your skin on
the rocks as well, and somethinglike crocs or those um wetsuit
booties, something like that oran old pair of running shoes
yeah, something's got to belight yeah, kick off if you have
to.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Um, you know crocs would be my go-to, but they have
got holes in them, I supposeyeah, what's the reality like
for you guys when something doesgo wrong, because you guys
volunteer at the fishing club aswell as at the surf life-saving
club at times, some summer paidguards obviously, but you guys
have lives to live and you knowyou.
You might be at a kid'sbirthday party or something like
(12:24):
that, and then the bell ringsright.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Just at the pub even we had some shirts printed about
a few years back now and theywere bottled to throttle in two
minutes and that was frownedupon.
But that's the reality of it.
We can literally be sittinghere and the thing goes off and
you put down whatever you'redoing and I think the quickest
I've ever got there's aboutthree and a half four minutes
(12:46):
from home and then get the gearout and get into the water.
So it's a solid 10 minutesbefore you're actually able to
do anything.
Speaker 6 (12:52):
Yeah, it always happens at like an inopportune
time as well, you know, likewhen you're just starting to
cook dinner or something and thereality is like we're on the
beach here, we're five minutesfrom the beach.
By the time we've got down tothe club, got a wetty on, got a
radio and a boat ready, it'slike most of the time it's too
late.
You know, like guys, 15 minutesin the drink, guys can't handle
(13:13):
that.
You know, without a life jacketthey're going to be dead
already.
So and then you know, when youdrown, you sink to the bottom
nine times out of 10.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
So you know, we spend a few hours looking and that's
what 90 of them are.
I mean, we've had one casewhere a um, a gentleman, I mean
it was four meters swell, so theguy was an idiot on it, you
know.
But he actually drowned in hislife jacket because it was too
big for him and he, um, heobviously fell in the water,
tried to get back up in therocks, knocked his head, but, um
, when we got to him, his elbowswere caught in the in the holes
of the wetsuit and his head wasdown underwater and he had died
.
So that's the thing If you'regoing to get a life jacket,
(13:49):
preferably over the top of yourwetsuit, get something that fits
well and that won't get washedoff if you do fall into the
drain.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, that's some really good advice, guys,
because I see a lot of peoplejust borrow life jackets or
might even have the inflatableones, but the canister hasn't
been checked for a couple ofyears and that's expired or
rusted right out.
So you know, having probably afoam life jacket that's good
fitting, is the recommendationright for hitting the rock
Absolutely, and you don't haveto wear it while you're walking
(14:17):
there.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
You might be cooked to your backpack or whatever
you've got, but as soon as yougo near the water, put it on.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
It's that simple and then leave it on and they're
warm as well you know, they takethe wind factor off everything
what about ropes or harnesses oranything else like that?
Are you seeing the guys do thata bit, or is it kind of um?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
quite funny.
In the last 10 years there'sbeen a group of asian fishermen
and they started off with allthe gear and look pretty, uh
pretty, switched on, but as theyprogressed they ended up
trading in their gunboots forsneakers.
They have, uh really, they'vegot wetsuits on, they've got
really good fitting life jacketsand because of where they're
fishing, as rock overhands, theyactually they're wearing um,
hard hats as well, with a chinstrap, you know.
And um, I was on the beach.
(14:59):
They wanted past.
There's four of them.
They obviously all fishedtogether and I was on the beach
and they wanted to pass.
There's four of them.
They were obviously all fishtogether.
And one of the other younglifeguards laughed.
He goes, oh, look at thoseclowns.
I said, mate, they're thesmartest clowns I know.
You know they might look funnybut they've covered all their
bases.
And actually one day they wereout there and another Kiwi guy
went out for a fish and only hadhis shoes and his wetsuit on,
(15:20):
but but he didn't have a lifejacket and he ended up falling
in and it was a solid half hourbefore we got to him.
And these asian guys theydidn't speak good english but
they could do enough to throw arope to him, keep him attached
to them, but they couldn't gethim up on the rock.
So by the time we scooped himup and it was only half an hour
he was hypothermic, verythankful.
But these guys you know they'dsaved his life really kept his
(15:42):
fishept, his fish too he did ehyeah.
Speaker 6 (15:45):
yeah, he was a good snapper.
He was a big snapper.
He was trying to retrieve asnapper but he got washed off a
rock and they kept it for him.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Mark Gill has seen his fair share too.
As a club member, he also hearsthese stories of near misses
often.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Over the years of the incidents I've come across
personally around the beaches,harbours and rocks people
injuring ankles, rolling ankles,broken legs, 30 minutes away
from the road, down tracks.
Fortunately the Westpachelicopters are quite skilled
and they can do pretty goodwinch jobs, but you don't want
(16:20):
to be stuck in those situations.
All sorts of carry-on we comeacross from people stuck in the
mudflats and vehicles in theharbour stuck up on the beach,
on the beaches.
The amount of carry-on thatgoes on is you couldn't believe
it if you tried.
Generally speaking, over thesummer months there'd be some
(16:41):
sort of assistance requirednearly on a daily basis by
members from outside of ourcommunity, whether that's
launching boats, getting stuck,breaking down in boats, paddling
out on kayaks to have a quickcast and getting stuck in the
current Volunteer fire brigadeat Huia.
Over the years have had toassist multiple times with
people getting stuck down tracksA lot of the time.
(17:02):
Coming back from fishingexpeditions land-based ones
looks towards us and points thefinger at us as a club, whereas
as if it's one of our members.
Nine times out of ten, ifthere's a club member involved,
we're there assisting or helpingthe general population, like on
the Manukau Bar.
The amount of boats that goover, more often than not, the
(17:23):
first person on the scenes aManukau Sportfishing Club member
or a county's Manukau Bar.
The amount of boats that goover, more often than not the
first person on the scenes aManukau Sport Fishing Club
member or a county's ManukauSport Fishing Club member.
It's not the Coast Guard, it'snot the police, it's us.
We're the first ones therehelping and there's a lot of
guys in the club, a lot ofskilled skippers and skilled
fishermen, and we're there atthe moment's notice, if
something happens, to try andhelp anything we can.
(17:45):
I've pulled up onto the rocks atWaterpool to pick up a guy that
had been fishing and he had ahook stuck in his leg because he
couldn't walk out.
So I put up onto the rocks andhe jumped on front of the bow of
my boat and bring it back toHulia so he could get off the
boat, into the vehicle and gettaken into the hospital.
That kind of stuff.
No one wants to be involved inthose situations but if they
(18:06):
arise we have to help.
It's like the law of the land.
A lot of the time guys are inthe harbour they don't have
their VHF on.
They're out there and having aday with their family.
They're in the harbour, theydon't know anything's going
wrong, but yet a K down theharbour or a K up the coast,
there's a rescue operationunderway.
I've been involved in one onthe Manukau Bar, retrieving
(18:29):
people from the water in theNorth Channel, and I didn't know
anything about it until I seenthe police helicopter fly
overhead, flicked it onto 16 andthere was a mayday.
So we ripped out and gaveassistance and unfortunately,
recovered some bodies from thewater and they did not survive.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
If you're doing a mission off the rocks or the
beach, what kind of gear are youtaking with you?
That's safety gear as well asthe fishing gear.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Before fishing gear there's a safety gear.
So you're looking.
If you're going rock fishing,you're taking a life jacket.
That's the first thing you takeis a life jacket, making sure
you have at least two forms ofcommunication.
A cell phone doesn't cut it.
You're fishing the West Coast.
It's not good enough for youronly source of communication
Vital to take a PLB.
(19:16):
It's vital.
A PLB $500 and it can reallysave your life or save one of
your friends' lives.
And if you go into the waterfor PLB, people can find you,
you know, and ultimately it cutsdown a lot of the risk factor
for the rescue services as well.
So, firstly, life jacket, plbwearing appropriate clothing.
You're not going around therein your red bands and your jeans
(19:39):
or your track pants.
You know.
You're wearing clothes that areappropriate for the conditions
and the environment you're goinginto.
You're cloning, bring overrocks.
You want good, decent footwear,fairly light and with steady
ankle support, so you're notgoing to take those tumbles.
A lot of guys get into somedeep go right around the rocks
and a lot of the time they'reusing ropes to get around to
places and that.
And that's all good and well ifyou're experienced and you know
(20:02):
how to deal with that.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
But if you don't just stick to the closer areas, that
are more easily accessible, Ithink the thing guys forget
quite often is you're walkingaround, but if you've got a good
kingy or a couple, of goodsnapper in the bag there's a bit
more weight and and that foryour tricky exit as well as your
(20:24):
entry.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah, yeah, if you're wearing, if you're wearing your
flip-flops or your um gumbootsand you're coming back with uh,
some got, you can have a good,awesome day and coming back with
20, 30 kilos extra fish in yourbackpack, you've got to have
all the gear from the foot tothe head, the whole way up and
making sure you've got a lifejacket.
So if you do go on the drinkand you hit your head, you're
not going to drown.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I think that's the big one is a lot of people think
look, I can swim, but it's alot harder swimming with a head
injury or a broken arm orsomething like that from the
rock fall.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
It's a lot harder swimming against the rocks full
stop, particularly when you'reon the coast.
Between the Manukau all the wayup to Muriwai, there's awesome
rock fishing.
If you slip and you go into thewater, nine times out of 10,
there's some sort of swell there.
Typically it's a meter, meterand a half on an average kind of
day, and if you enter the waterin those conditions, try
swimming.
If you're inexperienced orexperienced, even try swimming
against the rocks with the wavespounding down on you.
(21:22):
You're always going to come outsecond best.
The first mistake people make isthey value a fish.
A fish's value to them is morethan their own life.
You can't go out fishing whenthe conditions are unfavourable
Marginal conditions you stay athome.
If you can't go out fishingwhen the conditions are
unfavourable Marginal conditionsyou stay at home.
If the swell is big, if thetides are wrong, you stay at
home.
You can go to the beach, butyou don't have to throw the
(21:42):
surfcaster out or set thecontiki.
You don't have to do that.
If the conditions don't allowyou to fish, you can't fish.
You have to stop what you'redoing and reassess.
You have to stop what you'redoing and reassess.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Dr McKinney says it's all about the planning before
you get out there.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
But even before that you've got to get prepared.
Can you actually swim?
If you're fishing off thebricks and there's a swell
running and the slippery rocks,there's a good chance you're
going to end up in the drink.
Now, if you can't swim afloat,that's it, and that's why we've
got that terrible record ofblokes fishing off the bricks
out west getting into troubleand dying.
One of the things you know youshould be doing is wearing a
(22:23):
life jacket.
You know, even if you're a goodswimmer, you might fall over,
smack your head and well, you'retoast.
But at least then, if you'vegot a life jacket, you can float
, you know.
So, yeah, with that planning,it's not even just.
You know your own personalsafety.
You know you've got to plan.
Where are the good places to gofor the conditions, what's the
(22:44):
swell doing, what's the weatherdoing, what's the tide doing?
You know you want to go outwith some mates, you know.
So if you do get into trouble,someone can help you.
If you're there by yourself,it's it always.
Always check the weather andconditions, you know, and
planning.
Also, how do you take care ofyourself and your mates?
Because it happens quite oftenwhere, um, I'll be fishing with
some mates and they don't knowwhat to do.
(23:05):
And someone ends up in thedrink, and well, how breaks
loose and you know you'll neverforgive yourself.
Um, if things do go wrong, howdo you get help?
Like a lot of the places,that's poor cell phone coverage
when it's like jeez, by the timeyou've got to run over a hill
or something and make a phonecall, it's often too late, you
know.
So all that planning you've gotto look after yourself, know
the conditions, wear a lifejacket, fish with a mate, catch
(23:28):
a plan.
You know, like jeez, if theconditions get dodgy, how are we
going to get out of here, youknow?
And what's our exec strategiesand stuff?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
I think a lot of people put the plan into how I'm
going to catch the fish, butnot the planning on what if it
goes wrong.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Yeah, yeah, you know, it's that fishing frenzy.
Eh yeah, 100%, mike, someonewill get a.
You know you might get a bigmooch, a snapper on or a kingy,
and you forget all the safetyadvice.
A snapper on or a kingy and youforget all the safety advice.
Oh jeez, I'm gonna land thisbugger and forget about.
There's a set wave comingthrough and you get washed off.
But catching the fish awesome,awesome time.
You know fishing with yourmates is awesome.
(24:02):
But yeah, you gotta, you gottathink of all the other stuff.
Get in there.
Getting home safely, you'rejohnny on the spot and a lot of
the guys fishing off the bricks.
They're helping their mates andhaving a rope to be able to
throw to your mate or some formof flotation, even if it's a
bucket.
If you throw that out to themand they invert, it catches air
and they can float on it.
And then the next thing how doyou get them back in?
So, yeah, like throwing a rope.
(24:24):
You know I was having a yarnwith the guy who fishes Papunui
points, you know, south ofRaglan, and those guys.
They take a rope as well, andsometimes you can only throw a
rope so far.
But what these guys do, it'squite classic.
They're fishing 100-pound braid.
They'll just use their rods andcut the hook off and cast over
it, get the bod to grab onto theline and slowly pull them into
(24:46):
throwing distance of the rope.
So it's just a bit of ingenuitythere.
But yeah, having some form offlotation where it's a life
jacket or something you canthrow like a life ring or a
bucket or and then some rope, umto pull them in, it's good.
But you've got to be sort ofcareful as well because, um, if
it's a real big swell running,the last thing you want to do is
get down at the water's edgeand throw a rope bloody hard to
(25:09):
pull someone up.
There's a hundred kg fella andhe's hanging onto a rope and
you're on some slippery rockstrying to pull him up and a set
comes through all of a sudden.
There's two buds in the drinkwhen there's a thing called um
cold water, shock, you know, andthen that that's.
It actually doesn't have to besuper cold, I think at the top
of my head I think it's anythingbelow 16 degrees.
And if you fall in the drinkthere's like a gasping reflex.
(25:32):
You just can't help help it.
You're like ah, ah, you know,and it just freaks you out and
it slows you down.
Now, if you're an on-swimmer,that's lights out, basically,
and you can't swim, you'regasping and you're freaking out.
But yeah, if you're fishing inthe winter, it's that same thing
, like you want to take someclay and that can keep you warm
and even if you end up in thedrink, you want something warm.
(25:53):
Some guys even wear wet suitsand when they're fishing off the
bricks in winter, yeah, lifejackets as well, you can get
those neoprene life jackets andthey'll keep warmth as well.
If you're fishing the northside of te waho point or towards
anafada, fishermen's rock andall this stuff you can't be seen
.
So it's like, oh man, you know,someone gets into trouble.
To be frank, it, it's normallya body recovery by the time we
(26:15):
go and find them.
But yeah, you can see bodswalking out and there's a few
initiatives being implementedwhere for years they've got life
rings and that out there onthose fishing spots.
If people want to use those,that's all good for flotation.
And then also trying toencourage that life jacket where
they've got life jacketlibraries where fishers can, um,
(26:36):
grab a life jacket on site andthen through the surf clubs and
carry it out fishing with them.
Yeah, you can tell a mile awayif someone knows what they're on
about.
Just by what, how they'redressed and even the gear, just
like a surf, you can tellimmediately.
Just looking at them you knowwhether they know what they're
on about so do you think thoseconversations need to be had?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
if, and how would you broach that kind of
conversation?
You see a couple of guyswalking out and maybe they've
got big gumboots on and theyhaven't got a life jacket and
they're kind of looking aroundlike they're almost lost, trying
to find out where they're goingto go.
Is it worth having thatconversation?
Speaker 5 (27:11):
on the beach 100, yeah, so percent, yeah.
So what's happened now?
And this is pretty cool throughAuckland Council they're
actually funding a rock fishingofficer.
So his job is to wander aroundin summer and have yarns, you
know, provide education tips andpamphlets and have a yarn and
stuff.
But yeah, the tricky thing isthere's so many spots, you know,
(27:33):
like, if you can see them, yeahthem, yeah definitely, like
we'll send a duck down or a jetski everything.
Oh, mate, is that guy all rightand just wander up, are you
right, mate?
Yes, sweet as, and just keep aneye on them.
But again, if we can't see you,you're on your own mate, let
someone know where you're going.
I mean, that's just commonsense to some.
If you're going hunting orsomething you know, or you're
going fishing in the boat, yousay yeah, I'm shooting out and I
(27:54):
should be back by X amount, orthe plan that we talked about
before can go out the door.
You know, the boys are theredoing night shift or shift to
work and it's like, oh man, wehaven't caught up to go fishing
for yonks and they've all got awindow.
It's like we've got this oneday and bugger it, we're going
fishing and then that's when allthe bad things happen oh geez,
the conditions aren't right, andX, y, z, blah, blah, blah, but
(28:16):
you're going, hella high waterand that's it, instead of
rocking up there and going ohmate, we're making the call.
It's a bit dodgy, let's do itanother time.
Guys are going and getting intotrouble.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
This is also compounded when doing a bar
crossing and, as Craig explains,there are more people doing
them, so you need to know whatyou're facing and be prepared.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
This year we've done a lot of launching through the
bar because the beach, the sandwashed away from Mirawai the
beach.
We couldn't get the boat ontothe beach.
So this year in particular, itwas just a lot of bar fishing
during the season.
So we met a lot of people thathadn't done it before and it's
just like, and they won't evencall up when they go.
Now, as soon as you see themback at the ramp, give them a
bit of a rundown, like a politerundown, of what the protocol is
(29:00):
.
You make sure you call CoastGuard because we don't want to
be looking for them.
Always make sure you've got alife jacket on.
I've never been through the baror off the beach without a life
will either.
I don't know guys that justcharge on through.
It's crazy, as you know.
Yeah, we obviously looking atthe forecast.
I look at Windy for what thewind's going to do, I look at
(29:25):
surfcom for the swell and I'vegot another couple I
cross-reference against.
But off the beach isn't so badif it's a rising swell because
it's easier coming back in ifyou can get off.
But I mean, quite a fewoccasions we've gone out and
it's been too big to launch andeven when it's a bit iffy I
always ask the crew if they'rekeen to go, because if something
(29:46):
does go wrong, everyone's gotto buy into the responsibility
of going out, not just me sayingyeah, I'm going to go If no one
else is happy.
I've done it a couple of timeswith the old man.
He only let me turn around.
I just tell him to hang on.
As you get older, you get wiseras well.
I used to go out in some crazyweather, but not anymore.
I've only got the kids with menow, so it's a bit more subdued.
(30:12):
So off the beach he's sort oflike a metre and a half.
You're pretty comfortable aslong as it's not too much wind
on top and not close to highwater.
If it's an incoming tide closeto high water, it's going to be.
Normally it gets a bit messy.
It's always a bit harder tolaunch than it do and through
the bar we've got a bit of anunwritten rule If it's sort of
one and a half metres risingswell, don't go, because
normally if it's a rising swellit rises quicker than what the
(30:34):
forecasts are telling you.
That's my experience.
You know it can rise quickerand you get caught up.
We've been caught out therebefore in big swells, you know,
rising quicker and bigger thanwhat the forecast was.
Normally if it's a fallingswell, it falls quicker than
what they say as well.
So if you look at it thefollowing day and you think it's
going to be too big, say aswell.
(30:55):
So if you look at it thefollowing day and you think it's
going to be too big, and quiteoften it's actually dropped
quicker than what the forecast,so you can still sneak out there
, just take a punt.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
I mean I'll sort of guys thathave not necessarily joined the
club, but I've met them at theramp at Shelley Beach because
this year we've done a lot ofbar fishing during the season,
(31:19):
so I met a lot of people thathadn't done it before and it's
just like and they won't evencall up when they go now, as
soon as you see them back at theramp, give them a bit of a run
down, like a polite run down, ofwhat the protocol is always
make sure we've got a lifejacket on.
I've never been through the baror off the beach without a life
jacket in my life.
I never will either.
I know guys that just charge onthrough.
(31:42):
It's crazy.
I've been stuck out at thetrench.
I had a boat with 20 outboardson it and one of the props spun
a rubber on it.
On the props I only had oneoutput to go and it was right on
dark, sort of.
From that experience I alwayscarry spare parts with me for
props.
I had one this year where wewere out we'd gone through the
(32:03):
bar in Chogon and we'd caught acouple of marlin and we had a
good day.
So we pushed it right to theend a couple of hours before
dark to cross the bar.
Coming back in it was a um sortof 1.8 meter day, I think.
Coming back in, um we spun aprop.
We were six miles off the backof the bar when it spun and
we're going to do six knots.
So as it worked out, we um, wegot to the bar right on dark.
(32:25):
Luckily we had another guy hungout to help us, you know.
So he just um waited for us tothe bar.
Make sure we got through right,because it was quite choppy by
the time we got there.
It was breaking around a lot ofplaces but luckily we still had
a bit of power just to surf ourway through coming in and the
tide was in our favour as well.
And then I had my cousin.
He was out in one of our otherboats, drove up the beach with a
(32:47):
spare prop, took the prop offmy other boat and then we put
that on and got back home thatway, put that on and got back
home that way.
But we didn't get home untilsort of midnight after that
experience.
That was only a month ago, topof the month.
So you always got to preparefor something going wrong and we
sort of pushed it too far on areasonably big day and that prop
spinning didn't make it easierand Coast Guard's not really
(33:08):
going to take your call from thetrench, you know.
I mean I let Coast Guard know ofour situation, where we are.
I'd rather rely on other localmates around you.
There's a Coast Guard in theHillandsville River.
It's still a fair way away forthem to get down.
They're probably talking 25 or30 miles just to get to the bar
from where they are.
If we're going out the bar,more so than the beach, the bar
(33:30):
we'll always a few calls thenight before who's fishing
tomorrow.
We'll meet you at South Head ata rough time.
We'll cross the bar togethernormally on the way out, whether
we go North Channel or SouthChannel, and then coming back in
at the end of the dayeveryone's talking.
So the channel for Kuiper isChannel 7.
So we always call up before weget to the channel, put a bar
watch through.
It's normally like a 30-minutebar watch and Coast Guard are
(33:54):
supposed to call you back within30 minutes if they haven't
heard from you and they do Quiteoften they do that.
So call before you cross andthen call once you get over the
bar and just give them a roughdepth and location.
You're going to be fishing forthe day and then when we come
back in, it's normally about 3or 4 o'clock everyone calls
we're on Channel 10.
Out there Everyone will radioaround.
Everyone sort of try and crosstogether again coming back
(34:22):
through.
If it's a biggish day as well,everyone sticks together.
If we don't hear anyone on theradio after a bar crossing
sometimes they've been on theirway through we'll call them up
at the last time just to makesure they're still all right.
It takes a bit longer to getthrough.
Having a good crew is crucial aswell Someone beside you that
can read, because when you'reskippering you're sort of
looking at the waves, the firstor second wave.
You need someone reading theback break of what's coming in
(34:45):
and someone you can trust.
If they say go left, you goleft and it's a better spot, not
some of the things.
They know what they're talkingabout and leads you into the.
You need to trust your crew.
Guys say to me I'd rather gowith you than anyone else
because you know what you'redoing.
To a certain point it's right.
But the lower averages, themore you do it, the more chance
you've got of fucking up as well.
So it's two sides to experience.
(35:05):
And then the more you're doingit, the more chance you've got
of misjudging it or somethingyou couldn't even control.
One jacks up in front of you,so it's a hard one to predict.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Mark Gill has also had some close calls.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
There's been a few incidences, a few crossings I've
done on my own and thought,fuck, I shouldn't have done that
.
You kind of learn from it.
The thing is it only takes onemistake on one of those
crossings and it's all over.
So joining a club's prettyessential in my opinion, if you
want to fish out there and havea long fishing career out there,
because if you don't, you ifyou want to fish out there and
have a long fishing career outthere, because if you don't, you
(35:45):
might just be going out thereone or two times before it's all
over.
On the West Coast you're dealingwith quite a unique set of
circumstances.
First of all, we've got hugeharbours, highly tidal harbours,
so there's a massive amount ofwater movement.
It affects predominantly theManukau and the Kaipara harbours
.
The sandbars are built up bythose currents.
(36:05):
The difference between crossingon a one metre swell on a small
tide and a one metre swell on abig tide is chalk and cheese.
On a small tide you can crossnearly any time during the tide
duration.
On a one metre swell On a bigtide you cannot.
You can only cross an hour anda half to two hours either side
of the tides.
The waves stand up when thattide's ripping out and that's
(36:27):
undone a lot of good confidence.
Skippers, over the years, a lotof these incidents have
fortunately been people runningthat buddy system and they've
had other friends there withthem that have been able to help
and other times they've had noone there to help them and when
your boat goes over, don't havetime to call coast guard, you
don't have time, you're in thewater before you know it and
it's you against the water.
(36:48):
We've had club members thathave fortunately managed to swim
to land and raise, raise thecall for help and we've also had
we've had countless amount ofclub members assist people in
the bar that have gone over andquite often when we've come
across these boats, it's onthese days, with the bigger
tides and the swell, with thehigh energy level, a bigger
period.
The swells don't have to be big, they just have to have good
(37:10):
energy in them and that's allthe difference.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
And as Duncan puts it On the West Coast, we've got
nowhere to hide.
You know you've got to keep aneye on the conditions, You've
got to know what you're headingout into and, like has happened
with us, we've gone out, it'stwo foot, you know, calm as a
mill pond.
And you come home and it's fourmetres and everything's changed
.
And in that situation you'vegot to be, you know, be on your
(37:33):
toes.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And there's a couple of instances we've had guys on
the beach keeping eyes on us incase we went over A few of the
other guys talked about, likebuddy kind of setups where
you're always going fishing witha mate or boats are going out
together, or even off the rocksyou're taking someone with you.
Is that how you guys operate aswell?
Speaker 6 (37:52):
Well, we always know someone else in the club who's
out there at the same time.
So that's how it works, youknow, like we've got a rough
idea of where everyone else is.
We never go on our own, really,you know, but it just works out
like that because we've got afishing club, so we're always
yarning.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
And West Coast there's a lot of, as you said.
There's Mirawai, there'sManukau, even Bethel's got a
little club.
That's unofficial buteveryone's out there.
You see another boat.
You go up for a chat, see whatthey're up, to see how they're
doing.
There's one instance we wereheading out wide for a broadie
drop and talking to the otherguy in the other boat right up
(38:27):
to the point where he launchedand he changed his mind he goes,
I'm not going anymore.
And I got out there and I waspretty pissed off because you
know it was a big effort to goout, sort of 40 miles, and I
radioed up to see who was aroundand there was another guy from
the Manukau Club who I knowthrough game fishing and he just
said look, if you know whereyou're going, I'm there and I'll
hang around until you get here.
And he goes, I'll be here forthe next six hours and we'll
(38:49):
fish together.
And we both hooked up and Christhought I brought him for about
an hour, an hour and a half,and Ken's like he dropped a big
shark and he just goes aroundtill you leave.
So you know it's a good, goodgroup of people that maybe not
not our club, but there are guysout there that you know through
getting to know each other outon the water and around and look
after each other which is whatit's all about us stepping up
(39:14):
and looking after each other.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
And to finish this episode, I thought it was worth
asking these guys what's thereality like when it doesn't go
well.
They've seen it all far toomany times already, and dr
mckinney starts by sharing hislifeguarding experience at
united piha mate, it'shorrendous, it's absolutely
horrendous, not only for, um,obviously, the person that's
deceased, their mates and theirfamily.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
When they family rock up to identify a body or
something, mate, it's, it's notnice.
But you also got to considerthe lifeguards or emergency
surfaces or surfers or anybystander ends up dragging a
dead person in.
That affects them as well.
And there's like a vibe, say,at the club and that if there is
a you know, a fatality orsomething, you can almost feel
(39:57):
it.
The vibe in the club is notquite right and that affects all
this other stuff as well.
But yeah, mate, I've seen somehorrendous and that affects all
this other stuff as well.
But yeah, I've seen somehorrendous stuff and you don't
really want to be around whenyou see that sort of stuff.
Go on, the family, the friends,work, colleagues could be a mate
(40:19):
from your rugby team.
It's like, oh, mate, it throwsa whole lot of people.
A lot of it could be oh shit, Iwas just going down to retrieve
a bloody sinker.
Aussies, they've got a classic.
It's something don't put yourlife on the line.
Catch a fish another day, mate,or shit, it's only a sinker,
get another one.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
I think that's where we're at.
A real risk is when you've gotto fish right up to the edge and
you've put the fight in and allthe work's been done and it's
that last moment to bring itover the edge or up to where you
are.
Or maybe you've got a snag,like you said, or a sinker
caught in between the rocks.
What's your advice in thatsituation?
Speaker 5 (40:56):
yeah, mate I, I think that's a big one where um
fishing with um mates like youcan get a mate can keep an eye
on the swell pattern below, makesure there's a swell coming,
give it a break or something Iget.
I guess it's a hard one becausethat's that's.
We'll get that fish fever.
So, oh, man, it's on, it's like.
Can't wait to tell the fellas,you know, and spinny yarn, crack
a few and but again that thatcomes down to the techniques.
(41:19):
Like some guys will have longgaffs or they might have sort of
ropes with like some littlegrapple hooks.
They can slide down their nylonand then gaff the hook.
I mean, get the fish and bringit up.
You know, and even the gun guyswill know certain areas where
they can pull up a fish on aswell.
I'll put it in this little glutbecause I know it'll come up
with the swell and they're allover it, whilst you get someone
(41:40):
who doesn't know that they godown to the water's edge, it's
all on slippery way.
It comes, it's all over.
So I mean, one of the keythings and I often think about
that is you know, you say it allthe time, you know, join a book
club or um, go see someone whoknows what they're doing or get
some lessons.
If you're keen on rock fishing,ask around you.
Go to the local fishing show,oh, mate, because there'll be
(42:01):
oodles of bods.
You know fishing in fishingclubs.
They'll be quite keen to giveyou a hand.
If they only knew.
And they'll be like, yeah, comeand join the club and you know,
you'll be fishing with thosebods.
A lot of them areintergenerational fishers and
there's so much knowledge.
Just don't be bloody scared toask.
You know, for it's just that,yeah, you know to ask him for
(42:25):
help.
And don't be scared to ask forhelp.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Finally, here's Chris and Duncan, who have seen it go
wrong too many times themselves.
Speaker 6 (42:36):
I think the thing people don't realise is how
short your lifespan actually is.
If you fall off the rocks, youknow, like I reckon somewhere
north of 90% of guys who falloff the rocks aren't expecting
to go in the water.
They drown, you know, and mostof them are under within inside
of five minutes.
They've drowned, you know.
So that's how long you've got,really.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
That's if someone sees you and can raise the alarm
.
Yeah, you know we've had guysgo on and no one knows they've
gone.
You just come to the rocks andall the wife will ring up and go
.
You know Bob's gone fishing.
You haven't seen or heard fromhim in four hours.
He's supposed to be home atlunchtime.
And you go there and there'sBob's backpack and all his
tackle and everything else.
There's just no sign of Bob andhe's not bobbing.
Speaker 6 (43:18):
I mean it happened.
There was two this summer rockfishermen.
Both of them were out with abig group of their mates and you
just sort of because I end updoing this a lot, so I
deliberately avoid trying tospeak to their mates or their
family or anything like that,unless it's just trying to get
some information for where theywent in, because it's not worth
(43:40):
it.
It's just too hard.
But you just see their matesjust looking shell-shocked,
basically.
It's that other disbelief theywere having the time of their
life catching a feed and then,literally within 15 minutes,
they're sitting back at the cluband their mate's dead.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
And they've had to experience and watch us and the
Ambos and the Fieries do thebest we can to resuscitate them
and, as I said, more often thannot the mate them and, as I said
, you know, more often than notthey make they've never seen
without a stitch of clothing on,has been washed up, or we pull
them out of the water without astitch of clothing on.
Their modesty's gone.
They've had the worst day oftheir lives and, um, you know,
the mates see it and then thewife gets called and it's just
(44:15):
devastating.
Um, you know, and it sits withus, it sits hard with us because
it is, you know, it doesn'thave to happen and this is the
thing.
If one person in the group hasa doubt, it should be listened
to.
There's no dead heroes, sorry,there's not yet.
Speaker 6 (44:33):
It's pretty bloody, undignified, even if you survive
, you're getting grabbed by somebig meathead and pulled out of
the water.
You'll be butt naked.
You'll be getting dragged upthe beach beach.
If some sort of recess has tohappen or something, people,
it'll be in front of people.
You know there's nothing we cando about that.
So it's yeah, it's pretty, it'spretty heavy situation, you
know it's just if the conditionsdon't look right, don't go.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
It's that simple.
Any doubts?
Don't go.
Yeah, it's just a feed of fish.
You can buy at the fish shop ifyou have to on the way home.
But it's just the devastationon the family that's left behind
, the mates, just that shareddisbelief that their mate, their
husband, their brother, theirson is now dead, when all they
were doing was going for a fish.
Speaker 6 (45:15):
Yeah, particularly if we don't find them as well.
A lot of them, you know they'lldrown and then we'll be sort of
there for a week or so waitingfor them to wash up.
Not all of them wash upsomewhere, you know.
So they don't even have a body,you know, they're just.
Yeah, there's that girl we seein the pub over there.
Oh yeah, there's a girl we knowcomes to PR.
We see her every now and again.
We tried to was it her father,Her uncle, Her uncle.
(45:37):
We did recess on her uncle.
She doesn't live here, butevery time she comes over and
talks to you, and every timeit's just about that, and she
can't ever come to the beachwithout seeing that every time
she comes.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
And pics are scared.
For us too, it's somethingyou've got to bury.
You try and bury under layersand she turns up and all she
wants to talk about is the daywe didn't resuscitate her uncle.
And he's sitting thereunratched.
There's nothing we could havedone about it.
We did the best we could withwhat we had.
Unfortunately, that's just.
She lives with it day in, dayout.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
She can't go as Chris just said, she can't come to PR
and not think about that day Asobering reminder of the
long-lasting effects that thesetragedies have on everyone.
For more information, check theNZSFC or Safer Boating websites
.
The details are in the podcastdescription.
Next week we catch up with thewomen at the helm, Kiwi chicks
(46:37):
out there leading the pack, andwhat they do to make sure they
come home safe.
The NZSFC Pod and Reel podcastis brought to you by the New
Zealand Sport Fishing Councilwith support from Maritime New
Zealand and the Safer BoatingForum.
Thank you.
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