July 24, 2025 • 63 mins
Welcome To The Oddity Shop, Where The Bizarre is Always on Sale. This week, your Curator Kara is telling us all about the Dark Side of The Kennedy Family.
The story of John F. Kennedy isn't just presidential history—it's a Shakespearean tragedy filled with shocking secrets and devastating consequences. Our deep dive uncovers the dark reality behind America's "Camelot" myth and the price paid for political ambition.
From the Bay of Pigs fiasco to the Cuban Missile Crisis, from civil rights reluctance to Vietnam escalation, Kennedy made powerful enemies across Washington's corridors of power. His assassination spawned America's most enduring conspiracy theories, with classified documents still withheld decades later. Even more chilling is the pattern of deaths, tragedies and "accidents" that have followed the Kennedy family across generations, suggesting something beyond mere coincidence.
What was the true cost of America's Camelot? Listen and decide for yourself if the Kennedy legacy represents ambition's ultimate reward—or its punishment.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I want to dance with the monk men At the IA shop,
bathed in the moonlight At theIA shop.
Creep through the graveyard Tothe IA shop.
The door's always open At theIA Shop.
(00:24):
The door's always open at theRA Shop.
What's up, oddballs?
Welcome back to another episodeof the Oddity Shop podcast, the
place where we tell you creepy,odd, weird, strange, spooky
stories from around the globe.
(00:45):
Kara, how the heck are youdoing?
Oh, sorry, this is your curator, kara.
I have to use your proper noun.
I am the curator, zach.
Okay, now how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm doing good, jesus , I'm so chaotic already.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
No, not Jesus Curator Zach.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I am doing great.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We were just talking about mukbangs off air and no
that made me not great, butother than that, I just I can't,
I don't understand it.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
No, I don't want to eat on camera.
I don't want to watch anybodyelse eat on camera.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Quite.
Frankly, I don't even want tolike go out to eat with people.
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
No, that doesn't bother me.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It doesn't bother me per se, unless I think about it.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Weird.
No, it doesn't like, I guess,when I'm with people but
watching like a recording ofother people, because it's all
you can focus on.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Well, that too.
And also like, if you're going,typically I would hope that
you're going out to eat withpeople that you like, like, so
they don't like make you feelthat way, but still, fair, fair
enough.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Hey, it's been a minute since a fair enough.
Okay, what's new with you otherthan being discussed about
mukbangs?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
uh, what is new?
Um, yeah, I don't know.
I feel like summer is going bylike fast but slow, but then
also I'm like, holy shit, june'salmost over and it's been.
Where's the summer really been?
We've had some hot days, butnow it's been raining.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I had that moment yesterday where I realized we're
already more than halfwaythrough 2025 and I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, I thought about that the other day and I was
like this happens every year,like I think, oh God, how are we
going to start the podcast likethis?
I feel like time is goingfaster than it ever did, and I
mean that I don't feel like it'sjust like what people say, like
it goes by so fast, if youblink you'll miss it.
No, I think so.
Well, our world's fucked up.
We know that, but something'snot right.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
With the timeline.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Okay, I need you and every other listener to put a
giant pin in that.
Okay, because I have almost anentire episode worth of a
response for you on that.
I think this is the first timeyou have guessed my episode on
your episode, so nicely done.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
That's awesome.
Okay, well, what's new with you?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay.
So, speaking of summer, I hadhonestly the perfect summer day
today.
Okay, what'd you do?
I worked my butt off yesterdayand I had a random weekday off
today, which I don't usuallyhave, nope.
So I got up and I did like somechores around the house not a
whole lot, but just like thethings I needed to do and then I
was chilling for a little bit.
So I decided I was going totake myself out for lunch.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Well, first off, you were blowing me up at 8am,
sendingm, sending me tiktokafter tiktok, after tiktok I was
like trying to get readybecause I didn't have to get out
of bed.
I could actually go throughthat I forgot you the day off
and I was like what the hell iszachary?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
so, uh, yeah, no, I blew you up with tiktoks.
I did some chores.
I took myself out to lunch tothis dive bar I used to always
go to and one of my favorite,favorite bartenders of all time
had switched from nights to days, so I haven't seen her forever
and she happened to be workingand it was her birthday oh,
that's fun I got to hang outwith her and then I went and
bought myself a new pipe andtook that to the uh woods.
(03:55):
I went to a little hiking trail,took my hammock, the new pipe
and my switch and I played somestardew valley and meditated and
stuff, just hanging out in thewoods for a few hours that's
cute.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
And then I okay, I was.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
I came back and I convinced julia to get ice cream
and I got you a gift along theway oh wow, I almost got your
gift yesterday uh, don't talkabout, don't.
I want to show you the gift,don't, don't derail me.
I thought you were gonna showme it's a little enamel pin that
has a UFO beaming up a cup ofcoffee and it says we need
(04:27):
coffee.
Oh my God, that's really cute,that's adorable, the cutest and
I figure because you and I havenot been getting enough sleep on
our adventures lately.
It was perfect.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
That is perfect.
Speaking of I don't remember oh, shopping and shit.
Your favorite store is likeeverything's 50% off, so you
might want to go buy shorts andstuff.
Your favorite store is likeeverything's 50% off, so you
might want to go buy shorts andstuff.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Oh, old Navy, yeah yeah, they do that like once a
week.
It's fine.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Well, no, it's like a major, like clearance sale.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Don't tell me that I was just thinking today.
I haven't bought that many newclothes this year, but I
basically redid my entirewardrobe last year, so I don't
need to.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
OK, whatever, here's your question.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Perfect, yeah, we need to get the shop open.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Nature versus nurture .
Speaker 1 (05:05):
You've asked me this question before.
It's both baby.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
But is it like, do you really think?
But is it both, as in it'salways both, or do you think
that you just believe in both,like this?
This instance could be this andthis instance could be that.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Do you want my nerdy answer?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Okay, cause this is like I went to school for social
psychology.
I know different personalitytraits are weighted differently
on how much they're affected bynature and nurture.
So it depends on what we'retalking about specifically and
the weighting of it and how muchyour genetics play in and how
much the way you were raisedplays into it.
So I always think, yes, it is100 both me too.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Okay, so I am going to preface this.
That's just your question.
Goodbye, bye.
So this episode is a lot offacts, so I do repeat myself,
like repeat the facts indifferent like categories, I
guess you could say, justbecause it's hard to keep up and
I just want everyone toremember.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Brace yourselves.
Kara's repeating herself, andshe never does that.
No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
No, I mean like I'm like there might be like full
facts that you're like wealready heard that, but it's
just because I don't want youguys to get mixed up along the
way and I want you to kind ofremember everything.
And I tried to categorize it,to be organized and not, but
it's you know.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I'll let you go.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Okay, are you ready?
Speaker 1 (06:22):
I am ready, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Today, I bring you the epic and tragic saga of John
F Kennedy.
Yes, so there's a lot.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Oh my gosh, how have we not done this yet?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
It's been on my list, baby Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Okay, Drama-less baby .
Uh okay, Ooh, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So, more than a president, he was a symbol, but
beneath the charm was a web ofsecrets, sickness, sex and
suspicion.
This is the rise and fall ofJFK and the curse that may have
haunted his bloodline forever.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I have a lifelong obsession with the Kennedys.
I am so ready for this.
Let's go, okay.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
All right, so we're going to start out with his
childhood and some familybackground.
Okay, so John FitzgeraldKennedy was born on May 29th
1917 in Brookline, massachusetts, into a family destined for
history and haunted by tragedy.
His father, joseph P Kennedy Sr, was no ordinary patriarch.
(07:28):
He was a shrewd and oftenruthless businessman who made
millions through stockmanipulation, real estate deals
and early investments inHollywood studios.
Ambitious to his core, joe Srhad one goal, and that was to
build a legacy, and he did notcare who or what he had to bend
(07:50):
to do so.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
He was an Irishman who was not going to live in the
slums man, he was ruthless.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
In 1938, he was appointed US ambassador to the
United Kingdom, becoming thefirst Irish Catholic to hold
this post.
But his tenure ended indisgrace.
He openly sympathized withAdolf Hitler, opposed American
intervention into World War IIand pushed for appeasement.
When his views became public,fdr forced him to resign.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah, no shit.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So JFK's mother, rose Kennedy, was a devout Catholic
and a daughter of Boston MayorJohn Honey Fitz Fitzgerald,
which gave the family theirfirst real political image.
Rose ran the Kennedy householdlike a military operation.
Strict schedules, religiousrituals, perfect table manners,
image, reputation andself-control were everything.
(08:44):
The Kennedy home was large,large, loud and fiercely
competitive.
I'm sure you can tell irish nine, nine children, yeah, nine
children, one throne, okay.
And their father made it clearsuccess was expected and
anything less was weakness.
So Jack, as John actually goesby, or was called, was
(09:07):
physically fragile from thestart, so he suffered from.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Can we talk about that for a second?
And I won't make it long.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I don't understand, but I never understood the John
Jack nickname I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
It's the same syllables, same amount of
letters.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
It's so dumb.
Somebody explain it to me ifthere's an actual reason.
Okay, so he suffered fromscarlet fever, measles, whooping
cough, chronic digestive issuesand a debilitating thank you
bad condition that would plaguehim for the rest of his life.
Good lord he spent, I know hespent long periods in bed
(09:40):
reading, studying, and oftenwhile his older siblings thrived
.
The political torch wasoriginally meant for Joe Jr, so
he was the eldest son, tall,athletic and outspoken, and Joe
was just groomed to be president.
But in 1944, during a topsecret mission in World War II,
his plane exploded midair andhis body was never recovered.
(10:04):
His plane exploded mid-air andhis body was never recovered,
and that single moment shiftedthe entire kennedy legacy and
all eyes turned to jack.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
the sickly second son would now be forced to carry
the weight of his father'sambitions and the dreams of the
entire dynasty which to me wasalways hilarious, that he and
I'm sure he backtracked on itright because they were only
care about social issues, but hepraised adolf hitler but then
(10:33):
his son fought in world war iiboth of his sons, yeah, I mean,
like that doesn't make, I'm sureonce he got flack for it, you
know there's a lot that does notmake sense about this family.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
All right, so now we kind of move on to his marriage.
So in 1953, jack Kennedymarried Jacqueline Bouvet, a
sophisticated, well-educatedsocialite from a wealthy East
Coast family.
Jackie was 24 years old andJack was 36.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So not like the worst age gap we've ever talked about
, but it's not really great Ifyou think about I'm 36 now and a
24-year-old is like a child tome.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, totally different spot in life.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
So, jackie, though she had studied in Paris, she
spoke fluent French and had ataste for literature, art,
history.
She was poised, graceful andfar more reserved than her
husband or future husband.
But Joe Kennedy Sr said she wasperfect.
He just loved her.
She was Catholic, elegant andphotogenic, a first lady in the
(11:47):
making.
From the start, their marriagewas as strategic as romantic.
Jfk's bachelor lifestyle was nosecret and his chronic
infidelity would become adefining strain in their
relationship.
So even before the wedding,jackie knew that Jack had
trouble saying loyal, but likemany women of her era, she
accepted it as part of thepolitical bargain.
And as first lady, jackieredefined the role.
(12:08):
She launched a full scalerestoration of the White House,
turning it into a showcase ofAmerican art and history.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
She actually got the Mona Lisa like sent over and
like displayed.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
And one of the few who've gotten the Louvre to give
it up.
Yeah, one of the.
She was the first at that time,uh.
Her televised tour in 1962reached 56 million viewers and
her earned her an honorary Emmythe only first lady ever to
receive one which in that timehad to be most of the population
, correct?
uh.
She became an internationalfashion icon and admired for her
(12:46):
chic style, oversizedsunglasses and breathy elegance.
I think that's funny.
So in France, president Charlesfamously said I do not know who
is president of the UnitedStates, but I know who is the
first lady so cute.
But behind the glamour, theirmarriage was often cold and
(13:07):
distant.
Jfk's affairs, sometimesmultiple at once, were an open
secret among the White Housestaff and Washington insiders.
And she endured.
She just endured them insilence, often retreating to
private quarters.
They actually slept in separatebedrooms for much of their
marriage and she traveledwithout him a lot, vacationing
with their children, visitingher family in Europe.
(13:29):
So she remained devoted andpreserving the image of the
legacy of the presidency.
But they really didn't have.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, it was all image.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, they had four children Arabella, who was still
born in 1956, caroline, born in1957, john F Kennedy Jr was
born in 1960, who later becameAmerica's prince, and Patrick,
who died two days after hispremature birth in 1963.
(13:59):
So they had two kids thatsurvived.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Okay, so now this kind of brings us into his
political career.
So in 1943, during World War II, Kennedy commanded a patrol
torpedo boat, the PT-109, inSolomon Islands.
One night a Japanese destroyersilenced his boat in two,
(14:24):
Silenced, Sliced his boat into.
Silenced, sliced his boat intotwo.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
It was probably pretty quiet after that it was
killing two crew members thatwere silent.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
So, with his back, already damaged from all his
previous injuries, jfk swammiles through the Pacific,
dragging a badly injuredcrewmate by his life, jacket
strapped, clenched in his teeth.
Injured crewmate by his life,jacket strapped, clenched in his
teeth.
And then he led the survivingcrew to a remote island,
signaling for help by carving arescue message into a coconut
(14:52):
shell.
And actually that coconut isnow in the Oval Office and it
earned him a Navy, a MarineCorps medal and a Purple Heart.
Good for him, I know so.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
More importantly, as you should, he well deserved.
I wasn't meaning thatsarcastically, no, no no for
sure.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
So, more importantly, it build the foundation for his
political image young, braveand selfless, and this kind of
start was the start of the JFKlegend.
So after the war, with thebackening of his father's wealth
and political connections, heran for Congress in 1946.
(15:29):
He won easily, helped by JoeSr's control of Boston's Irish
Catholic voting blog and a savvyPR campaign.
By 1952, he moved to the USSenate, defeating Henry, I think
.
Is it Cabot Lodge Jr, I don'tknow A prominent Republican.
His campaign leaned heavily ontelevision, newspaper ads and
the kennedy charisma tools thatwould define his future very
similar to how how obama won itwas.
(15:52):
He was one of the first ones whokind of used like the social
media aspect of oh yeah, I guessyou could say that social media
for the day, yeah yeah, in 1960, after bravely surviving the
Democratic primary season,kennedy clinched the nomination,
beating out more seasoned nameslike Lyndon B Johnson.
So he'd just be killing it.
(16:12):
Many thought he was too young,too Catholic and too
inexperienced.
But what he lacked ininexperience he made up for in
image control, stage presenceand connections.
The general election againstRichard Nixon was one of the
closest in US history and thatwas the turning point the first
ever televised presidentialdebate.
(16:33):
So Nixon appeared pale, sweatyand uncomfortable, recovering
from illness, and he refusedputting on any makeup.
But Kennedy was tan andconfident, looked directly into
the camera, so viewers saw aleader and it was the birth of
the modern political image.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I feel like Nixon always liked a little bit like
that though.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah, yeah, jfk won the presidency by just 0.1% of
the popular vote.
Anyway, so at age 43, he becamethe youngest elected president
in the us history and the firstcatholic to hold the office.
He branded his administrationfor the new frontier a bold,
idolistic idolistic, why do Isay it?
(17:16):
Like that era meant to inspirechange, just kind of making like
to your point of Obama.
It's wild because he actuallythey said that he probably would
not have won had it not beentelevised, because radio
listeners thought that they bothwere very like, even keeled,
(17:37):
and were doing a great job,because they couldn't physically
see how distressed and panickedNixon was, physically see how
distressed and panicked nixonwas.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
So it was really that televised part of the voters
that watched it that were likeholy shit charisma that shows
through it is yeah, so, um, thatwas a really good point.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
So his inspired change pushed for civil rights
through um caution, like kind ofcautiously at first, promoted
space exploration, famouslydeclaring that america would
send a man to the moon.
He increased Cold War militaryaid and intelligence operations
to contain communism.
But his presidency wasn'tanything but smooth.
(18:15):
So in 1961, there was the Bayof Pigs invasion.
So CIA backed mission tooverthrow Castro in Cuba and it
failed.
He took the blame publicly, butprivately he blamed the CIA.
In 1962, the world teetered onthe brink of nuclear war during
(18:38):
the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Soviet missiles were discoveredin Cuba just 90 miles off the
Florida coast.
So for 13 tense days JFKnegotiated with Nikita
Khrushchev behind closed doorsand the world just watched in
terror.
In the end he avoided war,trading a secret promise to
remove US missiles from Turkeyin exchange for Soviet
(18:59):
withdrawal of Cuba.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
So we didn't know that, but you know, I don't care
what I don't know.
If it means no nukes, okay.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
So he was praised as a cool-headed leader.
But not everybody was impressed.
So the military andintelligence community saw him
as too soft and some believed hewas naive, others a liability.
He also began escalating USinvolvement in Vietnam, sending
thousands of advisors andgreenlighting CIA missions.
Though he expressed doubtpreviously, he never stopped the
(19:27):
buildup.
So JFK's presidency was notlong, but it was packed with
crisis.
charm and contradiction.
He inspired millions and heterrified the establishment.
Okay, so that's just a littleblimp on that, and now we're
going to move into his healthissues.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
So JFK's health issues were not just
inconvenient, they weredebilitating and potentially
deadly.
So in the late 1940s he wasdiagnosed with Addison's disease
, a rare and life-threateningadrenal disorder.
His body could no longerproduce cortisol, the hormone
(20:14):
needed to handle stress,inflammation or even regulate
blood pressure.
So without daily steroidtreatments he could have died
for something as simple as acold or physical exertion.
But Addison's wasn't his onlyissue.
I know we already listed someof his other sicknesses as
childhood.
But he suffered fromdegenerative spinal disease, the
(20:34):
result of a football injury andwartime trauma, and then a
botched surgery for fixing it in1954.
And it actually nearly killedhim Damn Yep from a
post-operative infection.
So to even stand or walk he hadto wear a rigid back brace.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
There's just not enough Advil in the world.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Well, he also battled chronic colitis, gastric ulcers
, osteoporosis and urinaryUrinary why do I keep getting an
accent?
Urinary tract infections, uh,some of which, according to like
later reports, said that theywere mostly from his sexually
transmitted diseases.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
that he collected.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
That would make sense uh, he frequently, frequently
ran fevers, vomited, or he wastoo weak to attend events, but
none of this was seen by thepublic or any cameras.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Mm-mm Image.
It's the Kennedy image.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
To survive and to function as president.
Jfk took, not Advil.
He took a complex dailycocktail of medications Steroids
for his Addisons, barbituratesand tranquilizers for anxiety
and sleep, codeine and DremolDemerol for pain.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
There we go.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Amphetamines and methamphetamines for energy and
alertness, testosterone,procaine and animal hormone
extracts I feel like these alljust cancel each other out To
combat fatigue and enhancelibido.
And at the center of hispharmaceutical crisis was Dr Max
Jacobson, which I feel like wecould do an episode on him, the
(22:13):
controversial New York physiciannicknamed Dr Feelgood and his
so-called vitamin shots werebasically a blend of everything
I kind of said somethamphetamines, steroids,
painkillers, animal glandextracts.
And he injected JFK regularly,including before key conferences
(22:34):
with Khrushchev, even duringforeign travel.
And then some historiansactually believe which it's not,
I don't even know why youwouldn't believe this that he
may have actually made majorCold War decisions while either
high on meth or crashing downfrom it.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
I mean, listen, if I'm going to be negotiating the
fate of the world and nuclearbombs, I probably would like a
little meth too.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Apparently, this concoction was so strong it
could literally kill a horse,and at some points he was taking
more than one of those shots aday.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Good Lord.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
So White House physicians oh my God, white
House physicians and secretservice agents like raised alarm
at Dr Feelgood and all thefucking shit he was popping.
They warned that Dr Feelgood'sconcoctions were dangerous,
addictive and unpredictable.
And then one of like hisregular doctors claimed jfk was
wired like a spider on speedbefore public appearances.
I don't even know what the fuckthat means, but it ain't good no
(23:39):
and yet, after all that, jfkrefused to stop um and Dr
Feelgood remained Kennedy'sinner in his inner circle until
the day of his assassination.
Why?
Because, like you said, the liewas bigger than the risk.
The public needed to believethat he was strong, youthful and
timeless.
Yeah, you know so.
On camera he looked tannedconfident, but in reality he was
(24:02):
holding on to a presidency by athread stitched together with
drugs denial.
And it wasn't obviously untildecades after his death that
declassification of privatemedical files and the truth came
out.
So the image worked.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
At least for a while.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, so now we can move on to his affairs and some
scandals, because he isjam-packed for a short life man,
he, he did it all, all right.
So behind the polishedpresidential seat and perfect
photo ops, jfk lived a doublelife one as commander-in-chief
(24:44):
um and the other as america'smost powerful womanizer, q
britney spears after that'sgonna be so stuck in my head now
.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I honestly I started with lucky stuck in my head
today.
Oh, that's a good one I saw aguy doing like a john
mayer-esque cover of it at araising canes and it was the
best thing ever.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I'd already sent you so many tiktoks I couldn't send
you that one, but his affairsweren't just frequent, they were
prolific, reckless and oftendangerous.
So I'll go through a few ofthem for you.
So ellen romtesh uh, she wasthe alleged East German spy, a
(25:25):
stunning.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
European.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
I know a stunning European socialite who
frequented elite Washingtonparties.
She was a high level actress,actress what the fuck, jesus
Christ.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
She had high level access.
Same thing pretty much.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
And lots of secrets, jesus, oh I guess.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I guess she kind of was an actress, I guess.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, they all were okay.
So rumors swirled that she hadbeen a communist plant, possibly
linked to east germanintelligence.
Her relationship with jfkconfirmed by fbi files and set
off alarms at the height of theCold War.
The response she was quietlydeported and the press was
discouraged from reporting thestory.
The FBI closed the case andburied the details.
(26:15):
Mimi L Ford, the intern.
So Mimi was just 19 years old,a college sophomore, starting
her White House internship whenJFK seduced her in Jackie's
bedroom.
Perfect yeah.
In her memoir, Once Upon aSecret, she described being
treated like a sexual servant.
She said JFK pressured her intoperforming oral sex on one of
(26:38):
his aides while he watched.
She traveled with him, stayedovernight at the White House and
was silenced by the combinationof charm and intimidation.
At no point was she everprotected, only used and then
erased.
At one point she basically saidthat at the start of it she
didn't feel like she was takenadvantage of.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, that's called grooming.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Exactly Because he didn't really pressure her.
It was just kind of like shekept getting invited to the pool
, which is weird, like why wouldthe intern be invited to pool?
And then he, he decided to takeher like a tour oh, do you want
a private tour of the WhiteHouse?
And that's when he like kind oflike seduced her in the bedroom
.
But she's like was kind of likenot OK with it, I'm not, I'm
(27:22):
not explaining, explaining this,but like also he's the fucking
president.
So you're not like, you're notgoing to say no.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
It's like authoritarian bias, you know, or
bias.
It's awful.
She was 19.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Oh my God, disgusting Judith Campbell Exner, the mob
mistress.
So Judith wasn't just JFK'smistress, she was also the
girlfriend of mom mob man.
My brain is gone today you gotthis okay, so she was also the
(27:53):
girlfriend of mom bought mob,not mom boss.
Why do I keep saying that?
you just you're girl bossingtoday mob boss Sam Giancana,
head of the Chicago outfit.
Fbi files and her laterinterviews claim she delivered
handwritten messages between thepresident and the mafia,
(28:16):
effectively acting as a liaisonbetween the White House and
organized crime.
Her affair with JFK overlappedwith Robert F Kennedy's Justice
Department prosecuting the mafia.
So the contradiction wasKennedy tried to destroy the mob
while the other Kennedy wassleeping with the messenger.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
What could possibly go wrong?
Oh God.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
So JFK's affairs were not isolated incidences.
They were a routine part of hispresidency.
The Secret Service routinelyushered women into the White
House through side entrances,underground tunnels and
pre-cleared hotel rooms.
Agents were expected to lookthe other way, and they often
did, even when the risk was veryobvious.
(29:00):
And according to insiderreports, some affairs referred
to some oh my God, some.
What the fuck is going on withmy brain?
According to insider reports,some staffers referred to the
White House as a bordello, andobviously these weren't just
(29:20):
scandals, they were breaches ofnational security.
So a single photograph, awiretap or a manipulated
mistress could have compromisedthis presidency.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
At least hook up with them off-site.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
He did, he did it everywhere.
Well, all off-site, he justcarried on Right, convinced, his
charm, his brother and powerwould just protect him.
So there weren't just cover-ups, with just him.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Convinced his, his brother, his charm would help
him.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
No, his charm and his brother would help him oh,
convince.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Okay, I thought you said it backwards.
I thought you said uh convincehis charm, his.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I don't know what my brain is doing tonight, so I
very well it's all good.
So some other cover ups.
The Kennedys didn't want you toknow.
So in 1960, there was electionfraud allegations.
Y'all just have to deal with me, I'm so sorry.
So JFK's narrow victory overRichard Nixon in the 1960
(30:18):
election was clouded byaccusations of voter fraud.
So in Illinois, particularly inChicago, mob-controlled union
bosses and ward leaders wererumored to have stuffed ballot
boxes to deliver voters forKennedy.
And in Texas, lyndon B Johnsonallegedly used his political
machine to manipulate ruralcounty results in JFK's favor.
(30:39):
The mafia's involvement remainskind of be a hot topic in that
as well.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
And Nixon allegedly knew about all this, but chose
to like to not challenge theresults, just to protect the
stability of the country.
Yeah, I mean, if you're on thebrink of nuclear war, I feel
like there's some things youjust ignore for the time being.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, so we kind of already talked about it.
But Joe Kennedy Sr's shadydealings.
So the Kennedy patriarch builtthe family fortune through
bootlegging during Prohibition,alleged but not proven insider
trading before the SEC existed.
Questionable dealings withHollywood studios and Nazi
(31:21):
sympath companies, um in the1930s and then um, as us
ambassador to the uk, joe seniorappraised appeasement, blamed
jews for the europe's problemsand said democracy is finished
in england.
Uh, obviously, his health,jfk's health, problems with his
(31:44):
Addison's disease, the spinalshit, all his STDs and chronic
pain were completely hiddenthrough falsified medical
records.
Friendly doctors who would justlie to the press, denial of
obvious symptoms, even when hewould collapse at rallies or
used a back brace under hissuits.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
How did he hide the collapsing?
That's impressive.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
They just made shit up.
They literally just fuckingmade shit up.
They also issued likedeliberate misinformation to
maintain the image of youth andvigor.
So they just made everything up.
It was crazy With all themultiple women that he had
affairs with, they basicallywere either paid off, threatened
by Bobby Kennedy, um, deportedthey deported Ellen, wow or
(32:32):
mysteriously disappeared fromthe public eye.
So the secret service and theFBI helped cover all of these
affairs up.
So they would smuggle the womenthrough the back doors, like I
said, destroyed all the visitorlogs, they would intimidate the
press.
And one young woman, mary Meyer, was actually reportedly like
really close to JFK JFK anddabbled in psychedelics with him
(32:56):
, and she was actually murderedin 1964 under suspicious,
suspicious, suspiciouscircumstances and her diary
vanished.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yeah, that one's always stuck out to me as being
just absolutely not right.
No, it's not right.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
So Rosemary Kennedy tragedy.
So basically JFK's sisterRosemary was born with cognitive
challenges and basically whatthat means is that as she grew
up she would just became reallyrebellious and she just did not
really want to abide by theKennedy structure.
I guess you could say so.
Joe senior had her lobotomizedand not informing any of the
(33:33):
family.
He literally took her and didnot tell her mother, did not
tell anybody, and the operationfailed catastrophically.
There's too many words.
Did you have a lobotomy?
Yeah, I almost wore my lobotomyt-shirt.
So she was actually leftpermanently disabled, unable to
speak or care for herself, andthe Kennedys hid her existence
(33:56):
for decades, basically claimingthat she was a nun or that she
lived abroad.
She was basically just erasedfrom the public eye.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Just absolute insanity.
I think you said best at thebeginning ruthless.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
So they were basically able to do this,
although, because there is nosocial media, they had a tight
control over their image.
So they had very strategicfriendships like with
journalists, exclusive access todeals, like with Life magazine
profiles and things like thatBlacklisting or punishing
reporters who asked him like toomany oh my god, I didn't pick
(34:29):
up too many questions andactually actually, like, in this
era it was really taboo foreven any sort of publication to
even report negatively on anysort of like president or any
sort of um, politician.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Really, it was a different level of respect, then
I think yeah you just didn't doit.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
So even if you, if they thought you were going to
do it, they'd probably threatenyou, but you just wouldn't
report any of this stuff.
Even after jfk's assassination,jackie crafted the camelot
narrative feeding life magazine,the idea of a fairy tale
presidency, and it worked.
The press ran with it and itbasically helped uh, pay the
(35:09):
like, the myth over the man,like he was just great great the
whole family camelot thing andobsession is.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
So you know that just came but that came from
jackie's quote.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
She quoted the book or she quoted, but it's like
shut the fuck up, he was deadalready.
Like you can't whatever yeah so.
Obviously, his presidency waslaced with secret operations, so
plans to assassinate fidelcastro included.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Included poisoned cigars and exploding seashells
were some of the wasn't theresomething with like infecting
the pigs at one point too?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
oh yeah, there was something others there's, so
much so many things.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Also not before he ordered a shit ton of cigars.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, yeah.
So CIA in countries likeVietnam, congo and the Dominican
Republic, secret backdoordiplomacy, diplomacy, jesus
fucking Christ.
Carrie, carrie I just calledmyself Carrie Dude.
I'm telling you my brain is notright today.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
It's okay, we'll get you to bed after this.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Holy shit.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Get it out Carrie.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Some believe that JFK grew disillusioned with the
dark state activity and plannedto dismantle parts of the CIA,
which is possibly why he waseliminated.
So over 3,000 classifieddocuments related to JFK's
assassination are still redactedand sealed.
Presidents Clinton, bush, obama, trump and Biden have all
(36:41):
denied, or like limited fullrelease, citing national
security.
Like what is left in thosefiles?
Is it eyewitness statements,cia operation, mob links,
something darker?
I don't know.
But basically the downfall ofhis presidency was, for all his
charisma and idealism.
(37:01):
Jfk's presidency was one of thehigh stake gambles, bruised
egos and gathering enemiesBehind the myth of Camelot.
Jack Kennedy was makingpowerful people angry, and in
Washington that's never withoutconsequence.
No, really quickly.
Let's just go througheverything that just brought
(37:22):
this mother effer down.
So the Bay of Pigs, which thatwas, jfk Greenlit the CSA-led
operation to invade Cuba.
Thank you the plan Cuban exileswould land on a remote beach,
rally anti-Castro forces andspark a revelation.
Instead, they were slaughtered.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Revolution.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
What did I say?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Revelation.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Jesus Christ, I don't know what's wrong with my brain
today.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
It's okay, I'll keep helping.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
So the Bay of Pigs invasion was a complete disaster
.
The CIA, I had to think did Isay that right?
That's what you did?
Had underestimated Castro'sstrength and overestimated
Cuba's support and basicallyassumed that JFK would provide
US air support, which hewithheld.
And so 1,200 exiles werecaptured and the world watched
(38:12):
America flounder.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah, not a good look .
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Nope, he did take public responsibility, like I
kind of said before, but he wasfurious behind closed doors.
He believed the CIA had set himup to fail.
And then he quote, said I wantto splinter the CIA into a
thousand pieces and scatter itinto the winds.
And that quote haunted him andfueled later conspiracies of the
(38:38):
theories of the CIA, the CubanMissile Crisis.
So basically, spy planesdiscovered Soviet nuclear
missiles in Cuba.
So JFK's military adviserspushed hard for airstrikes and a
fuel invasion.
But he chose diplomacy insteadand risky, slow and
controversial move, which that'sbasically where he had
(39:00):
negotiated privately, which washighly not advised, but he did
it anyway.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
And on meth.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
But he was seen as cool under pressure.
But behind the scenes many inthe Pentagon and CIA saw his
weaknesses and basically theybelieved that he caved under
communists.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
You can probably hide it from the American public,
but it's a lot harder to hide itfrom other officials officials,
uh-huh.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
So civil rights?
Uh he was.
He spoke about justice, but itwas very slow to be acted on.
So he feared the uh alienatinguh southern democrats whose
votes he, like, depended on.
So for most of his presidencyhe avoided strong action, uh
refusing a fully to fullysupport freedom riders and to
protect Black studentsintegrating schools.
In 1963, after violent imagesof Birmingham and the
(40:01):
assassination of activist Ithink it's Midgar Evers he
finally gave national address insupport of the civil rights,
but it was just way too late.
It couldn't be.
It couldn't be proposed forless legislation, because he's a
dumb, he's just a dumb.
Vietnam, you know, he kind offucked that shit up too.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Nam was just a nightmare in general.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
He yeah.
By the end of his presidencyover 16000 US military
personnels were stationed inVietnam.
So he basically had enemiesabsolutely everywhere.
So he had them in Washington,cia, the FBI, the Pentagon,
everywhere the mafia.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
It literally could be anybody his vice president like
he.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
He just really just fucked everything up, so he has
so many enemies and so many juststupid ass shit, uh, that we
could literally be here forhours talking about that.
So on november 22nd 1963, jfkwas shot in dallas shout out to
my dad's birthday, so lee harHarvey Oswald was arrested hours
later, but he never stood trial, because he was shot by Jack
(41:18):
Ruby two days later.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
On live television.
On live TV.
What a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
I know so JFK was pronounced dead and you know, we
all know, jackie refused totake off that blood soaked dress
for hours there's pictures ofit.
The image of his son salutingthe coffin became really iconic.
Know, jackie refused to takeoff that blood-soaked dress for
hours there's pictures of it.
The image of his son likesaluting the coffin became
really iconic.
But the warren commissionconcluded oswald acted alone.
but most americans have neverreally believed that no um, but
(41:44):
his assassination transformedinto a martyr um freezing his
legacy and myth and memory.
But there are a lot ofconspiracies around that, so
we're going to touch base onthem.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
No shit.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
So when the gunshots rang out in the plaza on
November 22nd 1963, they didn'tjust end a presidency.
They ignited one of the mostenduring and elaborate
conspiracy industries in theUnited States history.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I mean, I feel like if you type conspiracy into
Google, it kind of is like thefirst suggested.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
So who killed JFK?
So the main theories are theofficial story.
So the Warren Commission formedby President Lyndon B Johnson
concluded that Lee Harvey Oswaldacted alone, firing three shots
from the sixth floor of theTexas school book depository.
No conspiracy, no backupshooters, no inside jobs.
Just few believe that after AGallup poll shows, over 60% of
(42:39):
Americans believe there was moreto the story.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Fun fact I got to stand in that window.
We did our family vacation toTexas, went to the plaza and a
tour of the book depository.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Oh, wow.
So basically people don'tbelieve this because there's
like, because the evidence likeor lack thereof leaves so many
questions both the evidence andlack of.
There's so many weird thingsthe breakdown is kind of number
one the cia.
So after the bay of pigs fiasco, um and jfk being furious about
the CIA, he fired Director AlanDules and threatened to
(43:16):
dismantle the agency.
So obviously we already readthat wonderful quote.
So Dules, the man that JFKremoved, was later appointed to
the Warren Commission overseeingthe investigation into JFK's
death.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Many theorists yep believe that the CIA had both
motive and means, control overcovert operations, access to
Oswald's records and a long listof enemies in Cuba, vietnam and
beyond the mafia.
So we already kind of talkedabout mob boss Sam and others
that were rumored to help JFKsecure key votes in Illinois and
(43:51):
West Virginia.
But after the election BobbyKennedy as attorney general
launched an aggressive crackdownon organized crime.
So the betrayal enraged mobleaders who had risked exposure
to back Kennedy.
And Judith Exner, jfk'smistress and Sam's lover lover,
(44:11):
allegedly passed all thosemessages to the men back and
forth.
So some theorists suggest thatthe mob helped plan the hit or
they just kind of looked theother way the military.
So JFK had grown skeptical ofCold War escalation.
He signed.
Oh my god, I'm like dying.
My brain is so stupid.
(44:34):
You've gotten better as youwatch.
OK.
So he had signed and wasplanning to withdraw one
thousand troops from Vietnam andexpressed intentions to end the
war entirely after reelection.
Worked to cool tensions withthe soviet union um singing the
(44:56):
nuclear nope, signing thenuclear test ban treaty um and
opening secret back channelswith uh khrushchev.
So this made him an obstacle tomilitary military.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
X kerry, get it together come on, kerry this
made him an obstacle to militaryexpansion um, I'm gonna start
start calling you Carrie everytime you start stumbling on your
words.
I'm sorry, I don't like thatname.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
So it will make me mad and I'll probably will stop
stumbling.
There we go.
So basically, was he apeace-seeking president or just
a threat to the war economy?
I don't know.
So maybe they killed him off,lyndon B Johnson.
So those theories also swirledaround that LBJ had killed him.
(45:36):
So he was vice president.
Johnson was a powerful,ruthless politician and deep
ties to Texas oil defensecontractors and corrupt regional
figures.
So some claim that LBJ resentedbeing sidelined and feared he
would be dropped from the 1964ticket.
So according to JFK's aideKenny O'Donnell, lbj was the one
(46:01):
who insisted JFK travel toDallas, a city known for its
political hostility and violentclimate.
So was that just ambition toget him there or just a
coincidence?
Then there's the UFOs.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
I mean this man literally has.
He's pissed off everybody onthis planet at some point, so
why not the aliens?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Well, it's not really the aliens, but they didn't
really do it, but it's UFOdisclosure, so OK, so one of the
strangest ones is but I don'tthink it's that strange, but
people think it's strange Justdays before his assassination,
jfk reportedly sent a memo tothe CIA requesting access to all
UFO intelligence files and toshare that information with the
(46:44):
Soviets as a transparencygesture.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Why do all presidents always talk about disclosure
and then none of them ever do it?
What do they find out thatmakes them retract it?
Speaker 2 (46:55):
So the memo, sometimes called the Byrne memo,
has fueled theories that JFKwas on the verge of disclosing
secrets that powerful interestsinterests didn't want revealed,
which some people think thiscould really be a stretch.
But I don't know.
I I don't think it's that farof a stretch, because so much
weird shit happens, like youjust said, when people open up
(47:16):
your files yeah, it gets realbizarre, real quick uh, so then
there's the grassy knoll andeyewitness chaos.
So multiple witnesses reportedhearing shots from the grassy
knoll, not just the bookdepository.
Acoustic analysts suggest morethan three shots were possibly
fired in quick succession fromdifferent directions, and some
(47:39):
witnesses were never called bythe warren commission and others
died under strangecircumstances.
So was there a second shooter?
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Or they just weren't found right, like the yeah it's
just bizarre you might get intoit, but the babushka lady who
was filming it, but nobody knowswhat happened to her film.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
There.
No, I can't even get intoeverything.
This episode is already so long.
There's so much with thisfamily and him.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
But None of it makes any fucking sense.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
So then, just like even further conspiracies around
the family, is that RFK wassilenced.
So, five years after hisbrother's death, robert F
Kennedy was assassinated in LosAngeles during his presidential
campaign.
The official story a lonegunman shot him in the kitchen
pantry, but forensics expertsand witnesses questioned the
(48:28):
trajectory of the bullets, andthe shooter himself later
claimed that he had no memory ofthe event.
And some suggest that there's asecond gunman involved, or I
don't.
I don't fucking.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
It's just crazy yeah, I mean, rfk is just as
confusing it's just you, just,it's just wild.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
So jfk Jr, the prince who never became king.
So John F Kennedy Jr wascharismatic, intelligent and
widely admired.
The media dubbed him America'sprince.
But in 1999, his small planecrashed off the coast of
Martha's Vineyard and theofficial cause was pilot error.
But conditions were clear.
He was uh, experienced, um, andthe timing was suspicious
(49:08):
because he was rumored to bepreparing a senate run, possibly
against hillary clinton.
And some believe his deathwasn't an accident but a
primitive strike to protect theentrenched political interest.
Then we move to ted kennedy.
So in 1969, senator Ted Kennedydrove off a bridge, killing
(49:28):
campaign aide Mary Jo I thinkit's Kopechny, that's probably
wrong, but he didn't report theaccident until the next morning.
And then the scandal destroyedhis presidential chances, and
some theorists suggest that itwasn't an accident, that it was
a setup to take out the lastviable Kennedy Pretty much.
So you know, some believe theKennedys challenged the CIA,
(49:51):
threatened the military industry, alienated organized crime,
toyed with UFO disclosure andthey just knew too fucking much.
They were too dangerous, toounpredictable.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
To keep that kind of image, you have to make promises
you can't keep.
You have to make fakefriendships that you're going to
piss off along the way, andwhen you do that so many times,
you build a lot of enemies.
It's wild.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
Well, yeah, so it's like, I don't know.
It's like, is it?
Are they cursed by fate legacy?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
So they, you, you know they were in a world of
secrets, power, dark things inthe shadows somebody, and I
think the father honestly made adeal with the devil because
they started with such lowlymeans.
I mean, it was it.
It was like a liquor store,right that?
Drove them into like theystarted profiting off that when
they shouldn't.
They should have been a poorfamily based on irish catholic
(50:46):
in the time and place they wereso if you just shut up.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
uh, many believe that the family was cursed due to
the patriarch joseph kennedy'salleged dealings with organized
crime and moral compromises.
Not necessarily the devil, butuh, even rosemary kennedy's
lobotomy has been interpreted aspart of a darker family effort
to control image and scandal.
And then obviously, to this day, documents surrounding the
(51:11):
assassination remain classified.
There's just so much whichbrings us to the Kennedy curse.
Coincidence or curse, let's goAll right.
So the Kennedy family has beenfollowed by an extraordinary
string of tragedies, scandalsand untimely deaths.
To some people it's justmisfortunes, but I believe that
(51:33):
it is something deeper anddarker.
He was groomed from childhoodto become the first president,
but he volunteered in that topsecret mission during World War
II.
His plane loaded with explosivedetonated midair over the
English Channel before he couldparachute out and his death was
(51:55):
devastated by the entire family.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
And it kind of shifted the whole trajectory of
the Kennedys.
Yeah well, had to go back tothe plans real quick.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
So yep, kathleen Kick Kennedy.
She was considered the freespirit.
She was JFK's vivacious youngersister.
She defined her strict Catholicupbringing by marrying Bill
Cavendish, heir to the Duke ofDevonshire.
Billy was killed in World WarII.
Four years later, kick died ina plane crash in France at just
(52:26):
28 years old, on her way tovacation with a new love of hers
that the family disapproved of,and her death was so scandalous
that sudden Rose Kennedyrefused to attend the funeral.
I don't know.
I'd be thinking that maybe dadkilled her because he didn't
like her second love choice.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
There's just way too many deaths in this one family
for them to not be orchestratedto some extent.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Right, oh, and that happened in 1948.
So in 1963, obviously, jfk isassassinated.
In 1968, the next hope, robertF Kennedy.
So five years later, like wehad said, bobby was assassinated
, shot after declaring victoryin the California primary, died
in front of his wife andsupporters, which is so awful.
(53:13):
Ted Kennedy in 1969.
Ted, the youngest Kennedybrother was expected to carry
the torch after Bobby's death.
But in 1969, after a party on,is it Chappaquiddick Island?
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Yeah, yeah, you got it right.
Ted drove off a bridge, wow.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Like we said, leaving Mary Jo trapped in the car and
he didn't report it for 10 hoursand that fucked him up.
David Kennedy, the haunted son,1984.
The fourth of RFK's 11 children, david witnessed his father's
assassination assassination atage 12.
He never recovered emotionallystruggling with.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
How could you?
Speaker 2 (53:54):
I don't know.
Struggling with addiction, hedied of a drug overdose in
florida, in a florida floridahotel room, at 28 years old,
michael kennedy.
So the reckless tragedy 1997.
Another of RFK's sons died at39.
While playing football in Aspen, colorado.
He slammed into a tree and diedinstantly.
(54:16):
At the time he was underinvestigation for an alleged
affair with a 14-year-oldbabysitter, a scandal that was
quickly buried under the shockof his death.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
Well, the easiest way to bury a scandal is to bury a
Kennedy.
Come on now.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
Right, which then brings us to, obviously, the
prince 1999.
So he obviously died over thevineyards in a plane crash.
His body, along with his wifeCaroline and sister-in-law
Lauren, was recovered days laterfrom the ocean floor.
And there's obviously so manyconspiracies around that Maeve,
(54:50):
kennedy and son Gideon.
So in 2020, I love the nameMaeve.
In 2020, the tragedy continuedinto a new generation.
Maeve, granddaughter of RFK,went missing in April 2020 after
taking a canoe out into theChesapeake Bay with her
eight-year-old son Gideon.
They were caught in strongcurrents.
After taking a canoe out intothe Chesapeake Bay with her
eight-year-old son Gideon, theywere caught in strong currents
while chasing a runaway ball.
(55:11):
Their bodies were found dayslater.
Another funeral I didn't knowabout that one and another
Kennedy gone.
Well, that was 2020.
It wasn't even that long ago.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
Damn.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
So, over the decades, the Kennedy family endured a
staggering number of publictravesties Jesus Christ
tragedies, breakdowns,unexplained death.
Some say it's the price oflegacy a family that flew too
close to the sun and otherswhisper that it's a curse.
I don't know.
(55:40):
Whatever the truth is, theresult's the same Funerals,
children raised in shadows,wackadoo dynasty can we just
call it karma?
Speaker 1 (55:50):
yeah, I mean honestly , when you you live that much of
like a secret life and puttingon such a front like what you
say about you, know they, theyhad the public convinced they
cared about civil rights but itwas really just to further their
own agenda.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
It has to come down to karma coming around because,
like it's just bullshit.
Charm was a very deeply flawedman chronically ill, heavily
(56:25):
medicated, physically fragile,yet portrayed as the picture of
health, obsessed with his imagebut often absent from actual
governance, leaving much of theheavy lifting to his brother and
advisors.
He's addicted to sex powercontrol, using the White House
more as a bachelor pad.
(56:45):
Just pick somewhere else, dude,oh my God.
So basically, you know, we weresurrounded by secret keeping
doctors, handlers and a familydetermined to protect the
Kennedy brand at all costs.
And when he wasn't leading, hewas lying to the press, to
voters and sometimes to himself.
And yet he remains a symbol,not because of what he did, but
(57:06):
because of what people wantedhim to be.
And that's the tragedy of jfknot just a bullet in dallas, but
the illusion we all agreed tobelieve first of all, nicely
done to get through the entirekennedy history, do you?
Speaker 1 (57:21):
know how much assassination and the people?
Oh yes, because, like I said,this is a rabbit hole.
I go down all the time.
Can I add one little fun fact,because I feel like I want to
have you do a follow-up episodealmost on just the assassination
, but oh I know some of thestuff that was recently
disclosed a different angle thanwhat this is.
A pruder film always showed.
(57:41):
So you know there's a pruderfilm.
You can see jackie kennedyinstead of like kind of going to
his age, she climbs out theback.
They think it may have been oneof the drivers.
There's some new evidence cameout.
Speaker 2 (57:52):
Yeah, I also did forget to say that, because he
had to wear that brace.
That's actually what killed himoh, because he couldn't like
because that that first shot,because I think the first shot
hit him like I don't knowsomewhere that wouldn't have
killed him if he was not wearingthat brace yeah, his body would
have naturally slumped over andthe second bullet would have
(58:15):
never hit him wow, yeah he wouldhave lived.
Speaker 1 (58:17):
Yeah, you have like locked mobility.
Oh god, holy shit.
Okay, but there's just so somuch, it's so wild.
Speaker 2 (58:25):
But I I really just wanted to, because I I listened
to a lot of different podcastsabout this and there's still
some people that just portrayhim as like so great and so
collected and like, yeah, likehe was a womanizer, but like you
skirt past it, because theimage and you know whatever, but
he was actually just kind ofreally fucking horrible I like
(58:47):
the way you did it, becauseeveryone just covers the
assassination.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
So many people don't know all of the history.
Speaker 2 (58:53):
That right got him to be america's golden boy so
here's the thing, going back tothe top of the episode, your
question.
It's kind of like in thebeginning I think he really was
going to be a great human.
He saved people, he did reallygood and he was just a sickly
child that just read his booksand fantasize.
I think he could have been good.
But then you're put with thisfamily that's forcing you to be
(59:17):
this type of person.
You know he used to take actingclasses and he would watch
actors and watch how they movedand how they stayed calm and he
was so um, like I, just that'sso manipulative in how he could.
But he was raised that way.
I don't know if he would havebeen that way had he not been
raised and forced and his entirefamily was basically like oh
(59:39):
sorry, you died.
Next in line, be the presidentnext in line.
Speaker 1 (59:42):
That's so fucked up and he might not have just been
a womanizer.
There was also a uh curiousbest friend that he had oh,
probably, honestly I, there's somuch I wouldn't even doubt.
Speaker 2 (59:53):
No, there's so much, fuck shit.
I didn't even go through allthe affairs, I didn't even go
through all the women, I didn'teven go really through how much
jackie it's.
Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
I can't even we've been here forever, way too long.
So, anyways, any of thosethings stuck out to you, go down
the rabbit hole, cause there is.
It is so interesting it reallyis.
Wow Though, holy crap, nice job.
Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
And I thank you.
I um might've left out acertain something on purpose,
and that maybe might be yournext episode for me.
I don't know if you guys canfigure it out.
Put it in the comments below,whatever you're listening to.
Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Let's do it Guess, and since she already spoiled
mine, you might want to be aguest of mine as well.
Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Guess Zach's first, and then mine.
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Perfect.
We need to let these people go.
We've been going long.
What emoji do you want?
Oh, oh, my god what do we dofor?
What do we do for this um thewhite house and a black?
Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
there is a white house emoji okay, there we go
okay, this is a very long one.
I hope I didn't repeat myselfor stutter too much, and I am so
sorry not before you go toofast, too right end.
Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
We want to know your theories on the assassination.
Okay, now wrap it up.
Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Or just your rabbit hole that you've dived down on
him, Okay, but do all that stufffor us.
The most important thing youcan do for us is to creep it
real.
My little eyeballs.
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Goodbye.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Bye, I'm home with the dogman.
Cut the elevation, hold in theshadows.
(01:01:43):
Cut the elevation and hold withthe eyeballs.
Hope in the shadows At the IDshop and hope with the eyeballs
At the ID shop.
The door's always open At theID shop.
I want to dance with the monk men At the IA shop,
bathed in the moonlight At theIA shop.
Creep through the graveyard Tothe IA shop.
The door's always open At theIA Shop.
(00:24):
The door's always open at theRA Shop.
What's up, oddballs?
Welcome back to another episodeof the Oddity Shop podcast, the
place where we tell you creepy,odd, weird, strange, spooky
stories from around the globe.
(00:45):
Kara, how the heck are youdoing?
Oh, sorry, this is your curator, kara.
I have to use your proper noun.
I am the curator, zach.
Okay, now how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm doing good, jesus , I'm so chaotic already.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
No, not Jesus Curator Zach.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I am doing great.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We were just talking about mukbangs off air and no
that made me not great, butother than that, I just I can't,
I don't understand it.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
No, I don't want to eat on camera.
I don't want to watch anybodyelse eat on camera.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Quite.
Frankly, I don't even want tolike go out to eat with people.
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
No, that doesn't bother me.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It doesn't bother me per se, unless I think about it.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Weird.
No, it doesn't like, I guess,when I'm with people but
watching like a recording ofother people, because it's all
you can focus on.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Well, that too.
And also like, if you're going,typically I would hope that
you're going out to eat withpeople that you like, like, so
they don't like make you feelthat way, but still, fair, fair
enough.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Hey, it's been a minute since a fair enough.
Okay, what's new with you otherthan being discussed about
mukbangs?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
uh, what is new?
Um, yeah, I don't know.
I feel like summer is going bylike fast but slow, but then
also I'm like, holy shit, june'salmost over and it's been.
Where's the summer really been?
We've had some hot days, butnow it's been raining.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I had that moment yesterday where I realized we're
already more than halfwaythrough 2025 and I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, I thought about that the other day and I was
like this happens every year,like I think, oh God, how are we
going to start the podcast likethis?
I feel like time is goingfaster than it ever did, and I
mean that I don't feel like it'sjust like what people say, like
it goes by so fast, if youblink you'll miss it.
No, I think so.
Well, our world's fucked up.
We know that, but something'snot right.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
With the timeline.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Okay, I need you and every other listener to put a
giant pin in that.
Okay, because I have almost anentire episode worth of a
response for you on that.
I think this is the first timeyou have guessed my episode on
your episode, so nicely done.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
That's awesome.
Okay, well, what's new with you?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay.
So, speaking of summer, I hadhonestly the perfect summer day
today.
Okay, what'd you do?
I worked my butt off yesterdayand I had a random weekday off
today, which I don't usuallyhave, nope.
So I got up and I did like somechores around the house not a
whole lot, but just like thethings I needed to do and then I
was chilling for a little bit.
So I decided I was going totake myself out for lunch.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Well, first off, you were blowing me up at 8am,
sendingm, sending me tiktokafter tiktok, after tiktok I was
like trying to get readybecause I didn't have to get out
of bed.
I could actually go throughthat I forgot you the day off
and I was like what the hell iszachary?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
so, uh, yeah, no, I blew you up with tiktoks.
I did some chores.
I took myself out to lunch tothis dive bar I used to always
go to and one of my favorite,favorite bartenders of all time
had switched from nights to days, so I haven't seen her forever
and she happened to be workingand it was her birthday oh,
that's fun I got to hang outwith her and then I went and
bought myself a new pipe andtook that to the uh woods.
(03:55):
I went to a little hiking trail,took my hammock, the new pipe
and my switch and I played somestardew valley and meditated and
stuff, just hanging out in thewoods for a few hours that's
cute.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
And then I okay, I was.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
I came back and I convinced julia to get ice cream
and I got you a gift along theway oh wow, I almost got your
gift yesterday uh, don't talkabout, don't.
I want to show you the gift,don't, don't derail me.
I thought you were gonna showme it's a little enamel pin that
has a UFO beaming up a cup ofcoffee and it says we need
(04:27):
coffee.
Oh my God, that's really cute,that's adorable, the cutest and
I figure because you and I havenot been getting enough sleep on
our adventures lately.
It was perfect.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
That is perfect.
Speaking of I don't remember oh, shopping and shit.
Your favorite store is likeeverything's 50% off, so you
might want to go buy shorts andstuff.
Your favorite store is likeeverything's 50% off, so you
might want to go buy shorts andstuff.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Oh, old Navy, yeah yeah, they do that like once a
week.
It's fine.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Well, no, it's like a major, like clearance sale.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Don't tell me that I was just thinking today.
I haven't bought that many newclothes this year, but I
basically redid my entirewardrobe last year, so I don't
need to.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
OK, whatever, here's your question.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Perfect, yeah, we need to get the shop open.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Nature versus nurture .
Speaker 1 (05:05):
You've asked me this question before.
It's both baby.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
But is it like, do you really think?
But is it both, as in it'salways both, or do you think
that you just believe in both,like this?
This instance could be this andthis instance could be that.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Do you want my nerdy answer?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Okay, cause this is like I went to school for social
psychology.
I know different personalitytraits are weighted differently
on how much they're affected bynature and nurture.
So it depends on what we'retalking about specifically and
the weighting of it and how muchyour genetics play in and how
much the way you were raisedplays into it.
So I always think, yes, it is100 both me too.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Okay, so I am going to preface this.
That's just your question.
Goodbye, bye.
So this episode is a lot offacts, so I do repeat myself,
like repeat the facts indifferent like categories, I
guess you could say, justbecause it's hard to keep up and
I just want everyone toremember.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Brace yourselves.
Kara's repeating herself, andshe never does that.
No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
No, I mean like I'm like there might be like full
facts that you're like wealready heard that, but it's
just because I don't want youguys to get mixed up along the
way and I want you to kind ofremember everything.
And I tried to categorize it,to be organized and not, but
it's you know.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I'll let you go.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Okay, are you ready?
Speaker 1 (06:22):
I am ready, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Today, I bring you the epic and tragic saga of John
F Kennedy.
Yes, so there's a lot.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Oh my gosh, how have we not done this yet?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
It's been on my list, baby Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Okay, Drama-less baby .
Uh okay, Ooh, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So, more than a president, he was a symbol, but
beneath the charm was a web ofsecrets, sickness, sex and
suspicion.
This is the rise and fall ofJFK and the curse that may have
haunted his bloodline forever.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I have a lifelong obsession with the Kennedys.
I am so ready for this.
Let's go, okay.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
All right, so we're going to start out with his
childhood and some familybackground.
Okay, so John FitzgeraldKennedy was born on May 29th
1917 in Brookline, massachusetts, into a family destined for
history and haunted by tragedy.
His father, joseph P Kennedy Sr, was no ordinary patriarch.
(07:28):
He was a shrewd and oftenruthless businessman who made
millions through stockmanipulation, real estate deals
and early investments inHollywood studios.
Ambitious to his core, joe Srhad one goal, and that was to
build a legacy, and he did notcare who or what he had to bend
(07:50):
to do so.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
He was an Irishman who was not going to live in the
slums man, he was ruthless.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
In 1938, he was appointed US ambassador to the
United Kingdom, becoming thefirst Irish Catholic to hold
this post.
But his tenure ended indisgrace.
He openly sympathized withAdolf Hitler, opposed American
intervention into World War IIand pushed for appeasement.
When his views became public,fdr forced him to resign.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah, no shit.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So JFK's mother, rose Kennedy, was a devout Catholic
and a daughter of Boston MayorJohn Honey Fitz Fitzgerald,
which gave the family theirfirst real political image.
Rose ran the Kennedy householdlike a military operation.
Strict schedules, religiousrituals, perfect table manners,
image, reputation andself-control were everything.
(08:44):
The Kennedy home was large,large, loud and fiercely
competitive.
I'm sure you can tell irish nine, nine children, yeah, nine
children, one throne, okay.
And their father made it clearsuccess was expected and
anything less was weakness.
So Jack, as John actually goesby, or was called, was
(09:07):
physically fragile from thestart, so he suffered from.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Can we talk about that for a second?
And I won't make it long.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I don't understand, but I never understood the John
Jack nickname I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
It's the same syllables, same amount of
letters.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
It's so dumb.
Somebody explain it to me ifthere's an actual reason.
Okay, so he suffered fromscarlet fever, measles, whooping
cough, chronic digestive issuesand a debilitating thank you
bad condition that would plaguehim for the rest of his life.
Good lord he spent, I know hespent long periods in bed
(09:40):
reading, studying, and oftenwhile his older siblings thrived
.
The political torch wasoriginally meant for Joe Jr, so
he was the eldest son, tall,athletic and outspoken, and Joe
was just groomed to be president.
But in 1944, during a topsecret mission in World War II,
his plane exploded midair andhis body was never recovered.
(10:04):
His plane exploded mid-air andhis body was never recovered,
and that single moment shiftedthe entire kennedy legacy and
all eyes turned to jack.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
the sickly second son would now be forced to carry
the weight of his father'sambitions and the dreams of the
entire dynasty which to me wasalways hilarious, that he and
I'm sure he backtracked on itright because they were only
care about social issues, but hepraised adolf hitler but then
(10:33):
his son fought in world war iiboth of his sons, yeah, I mean,
like that doesn't make, I'm sureonce he got flack for it, you
know there's a lot that does notmake sense about this family.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
All right, so now we kind of move on to his marriage.
So in 1953, jack Kennedymarried Jacqueline Bouvet, a
sophisticated, well-educatedsocialite from a wealthy East
Coast family.
Jackie was 24 years old andJack was 36.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So not like the worst age gap we've ever talked about
, but it's not really great Ifyou think about I'm 36 now and a
24-year-old is like a child tome.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, totally different spot in life.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
So, jackie, though she had studied in Paris, she
spoke fluent French and had ataste for literature, art,
history.
She was poised, graceful andfar more reserved than her
husband or future husband.
But Joe Kennedy Sr said she wasperfect.
He just loved her.
She was Catholic, elegant andphotogenic, a first lady in the
(11:47):
making.
From the start, their marriagewas as strategic as romantic.
Jfk's bachelor lifestyle was nosecret and his chronic
infidelity would become adefining strain in their
relationship.
So even before the wedding,jackie knew that Jack had
trouble saying loyal, but likemany women of her era, she
accepted it as part of thepolitical bargain.
And as first lady, jackieredefined the role.
(12:08):
She launched a full scalerestoration of the White House,
turning it into a showcase ofAmerican art and history.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
She actually got the Mona Lisa like sent over and
like displayed.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
And one of the few who've gotten the Louvre to give
it up.
Yeah, one of the.
She was the first at that time,uh.
Her televised tour in 1962reached 56 million viewers and
her earned her an honorary Emmythe only first lady ever to
receive one which in that timehad to be most of the population
, correct?
uh.
She became an internationalfashion icon and admired for her
(12:46):
chic style, oversizedsunglasses and breathy elegance.
I think that's funny.
So in France, president Charlesfamously said I do not know who
is president of the UnitedStates, but I know who is the
first lady so cute.
But behind the glamour, theirmarriage was often cold and
(13:07):
distant.
Jfk's affairs, sometimesmultiple at once, were an open
secret among the White Housestaff and Washington insiders.
And she endured.
She just endured them insilence, often retreating to
private quarters.
They actually slept in separatebedrooms for much of their
marriage and she traveledwithout him a lot, vacationing
with their children, visitingher family in Europe.
(13:29):
So she remained devoted andpreserving the image of the
legacy of the presidency.
But they really didn't have.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, it was all image.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, they had four children Arabella, who was still
born in 1956, caroline, born in1957, john F Kennedy Jr was
born in 1960, who later becameAmerica's prince, and Patrick,
who died two days after hispremature birth in 1963.
(13:59):
So they had two kids thatsurvived.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Okay, so now this kind of brings us into his
political career.
So in 1943, during World War II, Kennedy commanded a patrol
torpedo boat, the PT-109, inSolomon Islands.
One night a Japanese destroyersilenced his boat in two,
(14:24):
Silenced, Sliced his boat into.
Silenced, sliced his boat intotwo.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
It was probably pretty quiet after that it was
killing two crew members thatwere silent.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
So, with his back, already damaged from all his
previous injuries, jfk swammiles through the Pacific,
dragging a badly injuredcrewmate by his life, jacket
strapped, clenched in his teeth.
Injured crewmate by his life,jacket strapped, clenched in his
teeth.
And then he led the survivingcrew to a remote island,
signaling for help by carving arescue message into a coconut
(14:52):
shell.
And actually that coconut isnow in the Oval Office and it
earned him a Navy, a MarineCorps medal and a Purple Heart.
Good for him, I know so.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
More importantly, as you should, he well deserved.
I wasn't meaning thatsarcastically, no, no no for
sure.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
So, more importantly, it build the foundation for his
political image young, braveand selfless, and this kind of
start was the start of the JFKlegend.
So after the war, with thebackening of his father's wealth
and political connections, heran for Congress in 1946.
(15:29):
He won easily, helped by JoeSr's control of Boston's Irish
Catholic voting blog and a savvyPR campaign.
By 1952, he moved to the USSenate, defeating Henry, I think
.
Is it Cabot Lodge Jr, I don'tknow A prominent Republican.
His campaign leaned heavily ontelevision, newspaper ads and
the kennedy charisma tools thatwould define his future very
similar to how how obama won itwas.
(15:52):
He was one of the first ones whokind of used like the social
media aspect of oh yeah, I guessyou could say that social media
for the day, yeah yeah, in 1960, after bravely surviving the
Democratic primary season,kennedy clinched the nomination,
beating out more seasoned nameslike Lyndon B Johnson.
So he'd just be killing it.
(16:12):
Many thought he was too young,too Catholic and too
inexperienced.
But what he lacked ininexperience he made up for in
image control, stage presenceand connections.
The general election againstRichard Nixon was one of the
closest in US history and thatwas the turning point the first
ever televised presidentialdebate.
(16:33):
So Nixon appeared pale, sweatyand uncomfortable, recovering
from illness, and he refusedputting on any makeup.
But Kennedy was tan andconfident, looked directly into
the camera, so viewers saw aleader and it was the birth of
the modern political image.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I feel like Nixon always liked a little bit like
that though.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah, yeah, jfk won the presidency by just 0.1% of
the popular vote.
Anyway, so at age 43, he becamethe youngest elected president
in the us history and the firstcatholic to hold the office.
He branded his administrationfor the new frontier a bold,
idolistic idolistic, why do Isay it?
(17:16):
Like that era meant to inspirechange, just kind of making like
to your point of Obama.
It's wild because he actuallythey said that he probably would
not have won had it not beentelevised, because radio
listeners thought that they bothwere very like, even keeled,
(17:37):
and were doing a great job,because they couldn't physically
see how distressed and panickedNixon was, physically see how
distressed and panicked nixonwas.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
So it was really that televised part of the voters
that watched it that were likeholy shit charisma that shows
through it is yeah, so, um, thatwas a really good point.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
So his inspired change pushed for civil rights
through um caution, like kind ofcautiously at first, promoted
space exploration, famouslydeclaring that america would
send a man to the moon.
He increased Cold War militaryaid and intelligence operations
to contain communism.
But his presidency wasn'tanything but smooth.
(18:15):
So in 1961, there was the Bayof Pigs invasion.
So CIA backed mission tooverthrow Castro in Cuba and it
failed.
He took the blame publicly, butprivately he blamed the CIA.
In 1962, the world teetered onthe brink of nuclear war during
(18:38):
the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Soviet missiles were discoveredin Cuba just 90 miles off the
Florida coast.
So for 13 tense days JFKnegotiated with Nikita
Khrushchev behind closed doorsand the world just watched in
terror.
In the end he avoided war,trading a secret promise to
remove US missiles from Turkeyin exchange for Soviet
(18:59):
withdrawal of Cuba.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
So we didn't know that, but you know, I don't care
what I don't know.
If it means no nukes, okay.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
So he was praised as a cool-headed leader.
But not everybody was impressed.
So the military andintelligence community saw him
as too soft and some believed hewas naive, others a liability.
He also began escalating USinvolvement in Vietnam, sending
thousands of advisors andgreenlighting CIA missions.
Though he expressed doubtpreviously, he never stopped the
(19:27):
buildup.
So JFK's presidency was notlong, but it was packed with
crisis.
charm and contradiction.
He inspired millions and heterrified the establishment.
Okay, so that's just a littleblimp on that, and now we're
going to move into his healthissues.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
So JFK's health issues were not just
inconvenient, they weredebilitating and potentially
deadly.
So in the late 1940s he wasdiagnosed with Addison's disease
, a rare and life-threateningadrenal disorder.
His body could no longerproduce cortisol, the hormone
(20:14):
needed to handle stress,inflammation or even regulate
blood pressure.
So without daily steroidtreatments he could have died
for something as simple as acold or physical exertion.
But Addison's wasn't his onlyissue.
I know we already listed someof his other sicknesses as
childhood.
But he suffered fromdegenerative spinal disease, the
(20:34):
result of a football injury andwartime trauma, and then a
botched surgery for fixing it in1954.
And it actually nearly killedhim Damn Yep from a
post-operative infection.
So to even stand or walk he hadto wear a rigid back brace.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
There's just not enough Advil in the world.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Well, he also battled chronic colitis, gastric ulcers
, osteoporosis and urinaryUrinary why do I keep getting an
accent?
Urinary tract infections, uh,some of which, according to like
later reports, said that theywere mostly from his sexually
transmitted diseases.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
that he collected.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
That would make sense uh, he frequently, frequently
ran fevers, vomited, or he wastoo weak to attend events, but
none of this was seen by thepublic or any cameras.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Mm-mm Image.
It's the Kennedy image.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
To survive and to function as president.
Jfk took, not Advil.
He took a complex dailycocktail of medications Steroids
for his Addisons, barbituratesand tranquilizers for anxiety
and sleep, codeine and DremolDemerol for pain.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
There we go.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Amphetamines and methamphetamines for energy and
alertness, testosterone,procaine and animal hormone
extracts I feel like these alljust cancel each other out To
combat fatigue and enhancelibido.
And at the center of hispharmaceutical crisis was Dr Max
Jacobson, which I feel like wecould do an episode on him, the
(22:13):
controversial New York physiciannicknamed Dr Feelgood and his
so-called vitamin shots werebasically a blend of everything
I kind of said somethamphetamines, steroids,
painkillers, animal glandextracts.
And he injected JFK regularly,including before key conferences
(22:34):
with Khrushchev, even duringforeign travel.
And then some historiansactually believe which it's not,
I don't even know why youwouldn't believe this that he
may have actually made majorCold War decisions while either
high on meth or crashing downfrom it.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
I mean, listen, if I'm going to be negotiating the
fate of the world and nuclearbombs, I probably would like a
little meth too.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Apparently, this concoction was so strong it
could literally kill a horse,and at some points he was taking
more than one of those shots aday.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Good Lord.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
So White House physicians oh my God, white
House physicians and secretservice agents like raised alarm
at Dr Feelgood and all thefucking shit he was popping.
They warned that Dr Feelgood'sconcoctions were dangerous,
addictive and unpredictable.
And then one of like hisregular doctors claimed jfk was
wired like a spider on speedbefore public appearances.
I don't even know what the fuckthat means, but it ain't good no
(23:39):
and yet, after all that, jfkrefused to stop um and Dr
Feelgood remained Kennedy'sinner in his inner circle until
the day of his assassination.
Why?
Because, like you said, the liewas bigger than the risk.
The public needed to believethat he was strong, youthful and
timeless.
Yeah, you know so.
On camera he looked tannedconfident, but in reality he was
(24:02):
holding on to a presidency by athread stitched together with
drugs denial.
And it wasn't obviously untildecades after his death that
declassification of privatemedical files and the truth came
out.
So the image worked.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
At least for a while.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, so now we can move on to his affairs and some
scandals, because he isjam-packed for a short life man,
he, he did it all, all right.
So behind the polishedpresidential seat and perfect
photo ops, jfk lived a doublelife one as commander-in-chief
(24:44):
um and the other as america'smost powerful womanizer, q
britney spears after that'sgonna be so stuck in my head now
.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I honestly I started with lucky stuck in my head
today.
Oh, that's a good one I saw aguy doing like a john
mayer-esque cover of it at araising canes and it was the
best thing ever.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I'd already sent you so many tiktoks I couldn't send
you that one, but his affairsweren't just frequent, they were
prolific, reckless and oftendangerous.
So I'll go through a few ofthem for you.
So ellen romtesh uh, she wasthe alleged East German spy, a
(25:25):
stunning.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
European.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
I know a stunning European socialite who
frequented elite Washingtonparties.
She was a high level actress,actress what the fuck, jesus
Christ.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
She had high level access.
Same thing pretty much.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
And lots of secrets, jesus, oh I guess.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I guess she kind of was an actress, I guess.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, they all were okay.
So rumors swirled that she hadbeen a communist plant, possibly
linked to east germanintelligence.
Her relationship with jfkconfirmed by fbi files and set
off alarms at the height of theCold War.
The response she was quietlydeported and the press was
discouraged from reporting thestory.
The FBI closed the case andburied the details.
(26:15):
Mimi L Ford, the intern.
So Mimi was just 19 years old,a college sophomore, starting
her White House internship whenJFK seduced her in Jackie's
bedroom.
Perfect yeah.
In her memoir, Once Upon aSecret, she described being
treated like a sexual servant.
She said JFK pressured her intoperforming oral sex on one of
(26:38):
his aides while he watched.
She traveled with him, stayedovernight at the White House and
was silenced by the combinationof charm and intimidation.
At no point was she everprotected, only used and then
erased.
At one point she basically saidthat at the start of it she
didn't feel like she was takenadvantage of.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, that's called grooming.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Exactly Because he didn't really pressure her.
It was just kind of like shekept getting invited to the pool
, which is weird, like why wouldthe intern be invited to pool?
And then he, he decided to takeher like a tour oh, do you want
a private tour of the WhiteHouse?
And that's when he like kind oflike seduced her in the bedroom
.
But she's like was kind of likenot OK with it, I'm not, I'm
(27:22):
not explaining, explaining this,but like also he's the fucking
president.
So you're not like, you're notgoing to say no.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
It's like authoritarian bias, you know, or
bias.
It's awful.
She was 19.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Oh my God, disgusting Judith Campbell Exner, the mob
mistress.
So Judith wasn't just JFK'smistress, she was also the
girlfriend of mom mob man.
My brain is gone today you gotthis okay, so she was also the
(27:53):
girlfriend of mom bought mob,not mom boss.
Why do I keep saying that?
you just you're girl bossingtoday mob boss Sam Giancana,
head of the Chicago outfit.
Fbi files and her laterinterviews claim she delivered
handwritten messages between thepresident and the mafia,
(28:16):
effectively acting as a liaisonbetween the White House and
organized crime.
Her affair with JFK overlappedwith Robert F Kennedy's Justice
Department prosecuting the mafia.
So the contradiction wasKennedy tried to destroy the mob
while the other Kennedy wassleeping with the messenger.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
What could possibly go wrong?
Oh God.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
So JFK's affairs were not isolated incidences.
They were a routine part of hispresidency.
The Secret Service routinelyushered women into the White
House through side entrances,underground tunnels and
pre-cleared hotel rooms.
Agents were expected to lookthe other way, and they often
did, even when the risk was veryobvious.
(29:00):
And according to insiderreports, some affairs referred
to some oh my God, some.
What the fuck is going on withmy brain?
According to insider reports,some staffers referred to the
White House as a bordello, andobviously these weren't just
(29:20):
scandals, they were breaches ofnational security.
So a single photograph, awiretap or a manipulated
mistress could have compromisedthis presidency.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
At least hook up with them off-site.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
He did, he did it everywhere.
Well, all off-site, he justcarried on Right, convinced, his
charm, his brother and powerwould just protect him.
So there weren't just cover-ups, with just him.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Convinced his, his brother, his charm would help
him.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
No, his charm and his brother would help him oh,
convince.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Okay, I thought you said it backwards.
I thought you said uh convincehis charm, his.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I don't know what my brain is doing tonight, so I
very well it's all good.
So some other cover ups.
The Kennedys didn't want you toknow.
So in 1960, there was electionfraud allegations.
Y'all just have to deal with me, I'm so sorry.
So JFK's narrow victory overRichard Nixon in the 1960
(30:18):
election was clouded byaccusations of voter fraud.
So in Illinois, particularly inChicago, mob-controlled union
bosses and ward leaders wererumored to have stuffed ballot
boxes to deliver voters forKennedy.
And in Texas, lyndon B Johnsonallegedly used his political
machine to manipulate ruralcounty results in JFK's favor.
(30:39):
The mafia's involvement remainskind of be a hot topic in that
as well.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
And Nixon allegedly knew about all this, but chose
to like to not challenge theresults, just to protect the
stability of the country.
Yeah, I mean, if you're on thebrink of nuclear war, I feel
like there's some things youjust ignore for the time being.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, so we kind of already talked about it.
But Joe Kennedy Sr's shadydealings.
So the Kennedy patriarch builtthe family fortune through
bootlegging during Prohibition,alleged but not proven insider
trading before the SEC existed.
Questionable dealings withHollywood studios and Nazi
(31:21):
sympath companies, um in the1930s and then um, as us
ambassador to the uk, joe seniorappraised appeasement, blamed
jews for the europe's problemsand said democracy is finished
in england.
Uh, obviously, his health,jfk's health, problems with his
(31:44):
Addison's disease, the spinalshit, all his STDs and chronic
pain were completely hiddenthrough falsified medical
records.
Friendly doctors who would justlie to the press, denial of
obvious symptoms, even when hewould collapse at rallies or
used a back brace under hissuits.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
How did he hide the collapsing?
That's impressive.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
They just made shit up.
They literally just fuckingmade shit up.
They also issued likedeliberate misinformation to
maintain the image of youth andvigor.
So they just made everything up.
It was crazy With all themultiple women that he had
affairs with, they basicallywere either paid off, threatened
by Bobby Kennedy, um, deportedthey deported Ellen, wow or
(32:32):
mysteriously disappeared fromthe public eye.
So the secret service and theFBI helped cover all of these
affairs up.
So they would smuggle the womenthrough the back doors, like I
said, destroyed all the visitorlogs, they would intimidate the
press.
And one young woman, mary Meyer, was actually reportedly like
really close to JFK JFK anddabbled in psychedelics with him
(32:56):
, and she was actually murderedin 1964 under suspicious,
suspicious, suspiciouscircumstances and her diary
vanished.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yeah, that one's always stuck out to me as being
just absolutely not right.
No, it's not right.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
So Rosemary Kennedy tragedy.
So basically JFK's sisterRosemary was born with cognitive
challenges and basically whatthat means is that as she grew
up she would just became reallyrebellious and she just did not
really want to abide by theKennedy structure.
I guess you could say so.
Joe senior had her lobotomizedand not informing any of the
(33:33):
family.
He literally took her and didnot tell her mother, did not
tell anybody, and the operationfailed catastrophically.
There's too many words.
Did you have a lobotomy?
Yeah, I almost wore my lobotomyt-shirt.
So she was actually leftpermanently disabled, unable to
speak or care for herself, andthe Kennedys hid her existence
(33:56):
for decades, basically claimingthat she was a nun or that she
lived abroad.
She was basically just erasedfrom the public eye.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Just absolute insanity.
I think you said best at thebeginning ruthless.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
So they were basically able to do this,
although, because there is nosocial media, they had a tight
control over their image.
So they had very strategicfriendships like with
journalists, exclusive access todeals, like with Life magazine
profiles and things like thatBlacklisting or punishing
reporters who asked him like toomany oh my god, I didn't pick
(34:29):
up too many questions andactually actually, like, in this
era it was really taboo foreven any sort of publication to
even report negatively on anysort of like president or any
sort of um, politician.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Really, it was a different level of respect, then
I think yeah you just didn't doit.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
So even if you, if they thought you were going to
do it, they'd probably threatenyou, but you just wouldn't
report any of this stuff.
Even after jfk's assassination,jackie crafted the camelot
narrative feeding life magazine,the idea of a fairy tale
presidency, and it worked.
The press ran with it and itbasically helped uh, pay the
(35:09):
like, the myth over the man,like he was just great great the
whole family camelot thing andobsession is.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
So you know that just came but that came from
jackie's quote.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
She quoted the book or she quoted, but it's like
shut the fuck up, he was deadalready.
Like you can't whatever yeah so.
Obviously, his presidency waslaced with secret operations, so
plans to assassinate fidelcastro included.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Included poisoned cigars and exploding seashells
were some of the wasn't theresomething with like infecting
the pigs at one point too?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
oh yeah, there was something others there's, so
much so many things.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Also not before he ordered a shit ton of cigars.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, yeah.
So CIA in countries likeVietnam, congo and the Dominican
Republic, secret backdoordiplomacy, diplomacy, jesus
fucking Christ.
Carrie, carrie I just calledmyself Carrie Dude.
I'm telling you my brain is notright today.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
It's okay, we'll get you to bed after this.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Holy shit.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Get it out Carrie.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Some believe that JFK grew disillusioned with the
dark state activity and plannedto dismantle parts of the CIA,
which is possibly why he waseliminated.
So over 3,000 classifieddocuments related to JFK's
assassination are still redactedand sealed.
Presidents Clinton, bush, obama, trump and Biden have all
(36:41):
denied, or like limited fullrelease, citing national
security.
Like what is left in thosefiles?
Is it eyewitness statements,cia operation, mob links,
something darker?
I don't know.
But basically the downfall ofhis presidency was, for all his
charisma and idealism.
(37:01):
Jfk's presidency was one of thehigh stake gambles, bruised
egos and gathering enemiesBehind the myth of Camelot.
Jack Kennedy was makingpowerful people angry, and in
Washington that's never withoutconsequence.
No, really quickly.
Let's just go througheverything that just brought
(37:22):
this mother effer down.
So the Bay of Pigs, which thatwas, jfk Greenlit the CSA-led
operation to invade Cuba.
Thank you the plan Cuban exileswould land on a remote beach,
rally anti-Castro forces andspark a revelation.
Instead, they were slaughtered.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Revolution.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
What did I say?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Revelation.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Jesus Christ, I don't know what's wrong with my brain
today.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
It's okay, I'll keep helping.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
So the Bay of Pigs invasion was a complete disaster
.
The CIA, I had to think did Isay that right?
That's what you did?
Had underestimated Castro'sstrength and overestimated
Cuba's support and basicallyassumed that JFK would provide
US air support, which hewithheld.
And so 1,200 exiles werecaptured and the world watched
(38:12):
America flounder.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah, not a good look .
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Nope, he did take public responsibility, like I
kind of said before, but he wasfurious behind closed doors.
He believed the CIA had set himup to fail.
And then he quote, said I wantto splinter the CIA into a
thousand pieces and scatter itinto the winds.
And that quote haunted him andfueled later conspiracies of the
(38:38):
theories of the CIA, the CubanMissile Crisis.
So basically, spy planesdiscovered Soviet nuclear
missiles in Cuba.
So JFK's military adviserspushed hard for airstrikes and a
fuel invasion.
But he chose diplomacy insteadand risky, slow and
controversial move, which that'sbasically where he had
(39:00):
negotiated privately, which washighly not advised, but he did
it anyway.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
And on meth.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
But he was seen as cool under pressure.
But behind the scenes many inthe Pentagon and CIA saw his
weaknesses and basically theybelieved that he caved under
communists.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
You can probably hide it from the American public,
but it's a lot harder to hide itfrom other officials officials,
uh-huh.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
So civil rights?
Uh he was.
He spoke about justice, but itwas very slow to be acted on.
So he feared the uh alienatinguh southern democrats whose
votes he, like, depended on.
So for most of his presidencyhe avoided strong action, uh
refusing a fully to fullysupport freedom riders and to
protect Black studentsintegrating schools.
In 1963, after violent imagesof Birmingham and the
(40:01):
assassination of activist Ithink it's Midgar Evers he
finally gave national address insupport of the civil rights,
but it was just way too late.
It couldn't be.
It couldn't be proposed forless legislation, because he's a
dumb, he's just a dumb.
Vietnam, you know, he kind offucked that shit up too.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Nam was just a nightmare in general.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
He yeah.
By the end of his presidencyover 16000 US military
personnels were stationed inVietnam.
So he basically had enemiesabsolutely everywhere.
So he had them in Washington,cia, the FBI, the Pentagon,
everywhere the mafia.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
It literally could be anybody his vice president like
he.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
He just really just fucked everything up, so he has
so many enemies and so many juststupid ass shit, uh, that we
could literally be here forhours talking about that.
So on november 22nd 1963, jfkwas shot in dallas shout out to
my dad's birthday, so lee harHarvey Oswald was arrested hours
later, but he never stood trial, because he was shot by Jack
(41:18):
Ruby two days later.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
On live television.
On live TV.
What a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
I know so JFK was pronounced dead and you know, we
all know, jackie refused totake off that blood soaked dress
for hours there's pictures ofit.
The image of his son salutingthe coffin became really iconic.
Know, jackie refused to takeoff that blood-soaked dress for
hours there's pictures of it.
The image of his son likesaluting the coffin became
really iconic.
But the warren commissionconcluded oswald acted alone.
but most americans have neverreally believed that no um, but
(41:44):
his assassination transformedinto a martyr um freezing his
legacy and myth and memory.
But there are a lot ofconspiracies around that, so
we're going to touch base onthem.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
No shit.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
So when the gunshots rang out in the plaza on
November 22nd 1963, they didn'tjust end a presidency.
They ignited one of the mostenduring and elaborate
conspiracy industries in theUnited States history.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I mean, I feel like if you type conspiracy into
Google, it kind of is like thefirst suggested.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
So who killed JFK?
So the main theories are theofficial story.
So the Warren Commission formedby President Lyndon B Johnson
concluded that Lee Harvey Oswaldacted alone, firing three shots
from the sixth floor of theTexas school book depository.
No conspiracy, no backupshooters, no inside jobs.
Just few believe that after AGallup poll shows, over 60% of
(42:39):
Americans believe there was moreto the story.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Fun fact I got to stand in that window.
We did our family vacation toTexas, went to the plaza and a
tour of the book depository.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Oh, wow.
So basically people don'tbelieve this because there's
like, because the evidence likeor lack thereof leaves so many
questions both the evidence andlack of.
There's so many weird thingsthe breakdown is kind of number
one the cia.
So after the bay of pigs fiasco, um and jfk being furious about
the CIA, he fired Director AlanDules and threatened to
(43:16):
dismantle the agency.
So obviously we already readthat wonderful quote.
So Dules, the man that JFKremoved, was later appointed to
the Warren Commission overseeingthe investigation into JFK's
death.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Many theorists yep believe that the CIA had both
motive and means, control overcovert operations, access to
Oswald's records and a long listof enemies in Cuba, vietnam and
beyond the mafia.
So we already kind of talkedabout mob boss Sam and others
that were rumored to help JFKsecure key votes in Illinois and
(43:51):
West Virginia.
But after the election BobbyKennedy as attorney general
launched an aggressive crackdownon organized crime.
So the betrayal enraged mobleaders who had risked exposure
to back Kennedy.
And Judith Exner, jfk'smistress and Sam's lover lover,
(44:11):
allegedly passed all thosemessages to the men back and
forth.
So some theorists suggest thatthe mob helped plan the hit or
they just kind of looked theother way the military.
So JFK had grown skeptical ofCold War escalation.
He signed.
Oh my god, I'm like dying.
My brain is so stupid.
(44:34):
You've gotten better as youwatch.
OK.
So he had signed and wasplanning to withdraw one
thousand troops from Vietnam andexpressed intentions to end the
war entirely after reelection.
Worked to cool tensions withthe soviet union um singing the
(44:56):
nuclear nope, signing thenuclear test ban treaty um and
opening secret back channelswith uh khrushchev.
So this made him an obstacle tomilitary military.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
X kerry, get it together come on, kerry this
made him an obstacle to militaryexpansion um, I'm gonna start
start calling you Carrie everytime you start stumbling on your
words.
I'm sorry, I don't like thatname.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
So it will make me mad and I'll probably will stop
stumbling.
There we go.
So basically, was he apeace-seeking president or just
a threat to the war economy?
I don't know.
So maybe they killed him off,lyndon B Johnson.
So those theories also swirledaround that LBJ had killed him.
(45:36):
So he was vice president.
Johnson was a powerful,ruthless politician and deep
ties to Texas oil defensecontractors and corrupt regional
figures.
So some claim that LBJ resentedbeing sidelined and feared he
would be dropped from the 1964ticket.
So according to JFK's aideKenny O'Donnell, lbj was the one
(46:01):
who insisted JFK travel toDallas, a city known for its
political hostility and violentclimate.
So was that just ambition toget him there or just a
coincidence?
Then there's the UFOs.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
I mean this man literally has.
He's pissed off everybody onthis planet at some point, so
why not the aliens?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Well, it's not really the aliens, but they didn't
really do it, but it's UFOdisclosure, so OK, so one of the
strangest ones is but I don'tthink it's that strange, but
people think it's strange Justdays before his assassination,
jfk reportedly sent a memo tothe CIA requesting access to all
UFO intelligence files and toshare that information with the
(46:44):
Soviets as a transparencygesture.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Why do all presidents always talk about disclosure
and then none of them ever do it?
What do they find out thatmakes them retract it?
Speaker 2 (46:55):
So the memo, sometimes called the Byrne memo,
has fueled theories that JFKwas on the verge of disclosing
secrets that powerful interestsinterests didn't want revealed,
which some people think thiscould really be a stretch.
But I don't know.
I I don't think it's that farof a stretch, because so much
weird shit happens, like youjust said, when people open up
(47:16):
your files yeah, it gets realbizarre, real quick uh, so then
there's the grassy knoll andeyewitness chaos.
So multiple witnesses reportedhearing shots from the grassy
knoll, not just the bookdepository.
Acoustic analysts suggest morethan three shots were possibly
fired in quick succession fromdifferent directions, and some
(47:39):
witnesses were never called bythe warren commission and others
died under strangecircumstances.
So was there a second shooter?
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Or they just weren't found right, like the yeah it's
just bizarre you might get intoit, but the babushka lady who
was filming it, but nobody knowswhat happened to her film.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
There.
No, I can't even get intoeverything.
This episode is already so long.
There's so much with thisfamily and him.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
But None of it makes any fucking sense.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
So then, just like even further conspiracies around
the family, is that RFK wassilenced.
So, five years after hisbrother's death, robert F
Kennedy was assassinated in LosAngeles during his presidential
campaign.
The official story a lonegunman shot him in the kitchen
pantry, but forensics expertsand witnesses questioned the
(48:28):
trajectory of the bullets, andthe shooter himself later
claimed that he had no memory ofthe event.
And some suggest that there's asecond gunman involved, or I
don't.
I don't fucking.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
It's just crazy yeah, I mean, rfk is just as
confusing it's just you, just,it's just wild.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
So jfk Jr, the prince who never became king.
So John F Kennedy Jr wascharismatic, intelligent and
widely admired.
The media dubbed him America'sprince.
But in 1999, his small planecrashed off the coast of
Martha's Vineyard and theofficial cause was pilot error.
But conditions were clear.
He was uh, experienced, um, andthe timing was suspicious
(49:08):
because he was rumored to bepreparing a senate run, possibly
against hillary clinton.
And some believe his deathwasn't an accident but a
primitive strike to protect theentrenched political interest.
Then we move to ted kennedy.
So in 1969, senator Ted Kennedydrove off a bridge, killing
(49:28):
campaign aide Mary Jo I thinkit's Kopechny, that's probably
wrong, but he didn't report theaccident until the next morning.
And then the scandal destroyedhis presidential chances, and
some theorists suggest that itwasn't an accident, that it was
a setup to take out the lastviable Kennedy Pretty much.
So you know, some believe theKennedys challenged the CIA,
(49:51):
threatened the military industry, alienated organized crime,
toyed with UFO disclosure andthey just knew too fucking much.
They were too dangerous, toounpredictable.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
To keep that kind of image, you have to make promises
you can't keep.
You have to make fakefriendships that you're going to
piss off along the way, andwhen you do that so many times,
you build a lot of enemies.
It's wild.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
Well, yeah, so it's like, I don't know.
It's like, is it?
Are they cursed by fate legacy?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
So they, you, you know they were in a world of
secrets, power, dark things inthe shadows somebody, and I
think the father honestly made adeal with the devil because
they started with such lowlymeans.
I mean, it was it.
It was like a liquor store,right that?
Drove them into like theystarted profiting off that when
they shouldn't.
They should have been a poorfamily based on irish catholic
(50:46):
in the time and place they wereso if you just shut up.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
uh, many believe that the family was cursed due to
the patriarch joseph kennedy'salleged dealings with organized
crime and moral compromises.
Not necessarily the devil, butuh, even rosemary kennedy's
lobotomy has been interpreted aspart of a darker family effort
to control image and scandal.
And then obviously, to this day, documents surrounding the
(51:11):
assassination remain classified.
There's just so much whichbrings us to the Kennedy curse.
Coincidence or curse, let's goAll right.
So the Kennedy family has beenfollowed by an extraordinary
string of tragedies, scandalsand untimely deaths.
To some people it's justmisfortunes, but I believe that
(51:33):
it is something deeper anddarker.
He was groomed from childhoodto become the first president,
but he volunteered in that topsecret mission during World War
II.
His plane loaded with explosivedetonated midair over the
English Channel before he couldparachute out and his death was
(51:55):
devastated by the entire family.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
And it kind of shifted the whole trajectory of
the Kennedys.
Yeah well, had to go back tothe plans real quick.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
So yep, kathleen Kick Kennedy.
She was considered the freespirit.
She was JFK's vivacious youngersister.
She defined her strict Catholicupbringing by marrying Bill
Cavendish, heir to the Duke ofDevonshire.
Billy was killed in World WarII.
Four years later, kick died ina plane crash in France at just
(52:26):
28 years old, on her way tovacation with a new love of hers
that the family disapproved of,and her death was so scandalous
that sudden Rose Kennedyrefused to attend the funeral.
I don't know.
I'd be thinking that maybe dadkilled her because he didn't
like her second love choice.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
There's just way too many deaths in this one family
for them to not be orchestratedto some extent.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Right, oh, and that happened in 1948.
So in 1963, obviously, jfk isassassinated.
In 1968, the next hope, robertF Kennedy.
So five years later, like wehad said, bobby was assassinated
, shot after declaring victoryin the California primary, died
in front of his wife andsupporters, which is so awful.
(53:13):
Ted Kennedy in 1969.
Ted, the youngest Kennedybrother was expected to carry
the torch after Bobby's death.
But in 1969, after a party on,is it Chappaquiddick Island?
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Yeah, yeah, you got it right.
Ted drove off a bridge, wow.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Like we said, leaving Mary Jo trapped in the car and
he didn't report it for 10 hoursand that fucked him up.
David Kennedy, the haunted son,1984.
The fourth of RFK's 11 children, david witnessed his father's
assassination assassination atage 12.
He never recovered emotionallystruggling with.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
How could you?
Speaker 2 (53:54):
I don't know.
Struggling with addiction, hedied of a drug overdose in
florida, in a florida floridahotel room, at 28 years old,
michael kennedy.
So the reckless tragedy 1997.
Another of RFK's sons died at39.
While playing football in Aspen, colorado.
He slammed into a tree and diedinstantly.
(54:16):
At the time he was underinvestigation for an alleged
affair with a 14-year-oldbabysitter, a scandal that was
quickly buried under the shockof his death.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
Well, the easiest way to bury a scandal is to bury a
Kennedy.
Come on now.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
Right, which then brings us to, obviously, the
prince 1999.
So he obviously died over thevineyards in a plane crash.
His body, along with his wifeCaroline and sister-in-law
Lauren, was recovered days laterfrom the ocean floor.
And there's obviously so manyconspiracies around that Maeve,
(54:50):
kennedy and son Gideon.
So in 2020, I love the nameMaeve.
In 2020, the tragedy continuedinto a new generation.
Maeve, granddaughter of RFK,went missing in April 2020 after
taking a canoe out into theChesapeake Bay with her
eight-year-old son Gideon.
They were caught in strongcurrents.
After taking a canoe out intothe Chesapeake Bay with her
eight-year-old son Gideon, theywere caught in strong currents
while chasing a runaway ball.
(55:11):
Their bodies were found dayslater.
Another funeral I didn't knowabout that one and another
Kennedy gone.
Well, that was 2020.
It wasn't even that long ago.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
Damn.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
So, over the decades, the Kennedy family endured a
staggering number of publictravesties Jesus Christ
tragedies, breakdowns,unexplained death.
Some say it's the price oflegacy a family that flew too
close to the sun and otherswhisper that it's a curse.
I don't know.
(55:40):
Whatever the truth is, theresult's the same Funerals,
children raised in shadows,wackadoo dynasty can we just
call it karma?
Speaker 1 (55:50):
yeah, I mean honestly , when you you live that much of
like a secret life and puttingon such a front like what you
say about you, know they, theyhad the public convinced they
cared about civil rights but itwas really just to further their
own agenda.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
It has to come down to karma coming around because,
like it's just bullshit.
Charm was a very deeply flawedman chronically ill, heavily
(56:25):
medicated, physically fragile,yet portrayed as the picture of
health, obsessed with his imagebut often absent from actual
governance, leaving much of theheavy lifting to his brother and
advisors.
He's addicted to sex powercontrol, using the White House
more as a bachelor pad.
(56:45):
Just pick somewhere else, dude,oh my God.
So basically, you know, we weresurrounded by secret keeping
doctors, handlers and a familydetermined to protect the
Kennedy brand at all costs.
And when he wasn't leading, hewas lying to the press, to
voters and sometimes to himself.
And yet he remains a symbol,not because of what he did, but
(57:06):
because of what people wantedhim to be.
And that's the tragedy of jfknot just a bullet in dallas, but
the illusion we all agreed tobelieve first of all, nicely
done to get through the entirekennedy history, do you?
Speaker 1 (57:21):
know how much assassination and the people?
Oh yes, because, like I said,this is a rabbit hole.
I go down all the time.
Can I add one little fun fact,because I feel like I want to
have you do a follow-up episodealmost on just the assassination
, but oh I know some of thestuff that was recently
disclosed a different angle thanwhat this is.
A pruder film always showed.
(57:41):
So you know there's a pruderfilm.
You can see jackie kennedyinstead of like kind of going to
his age, she climbs out theback.
They think it may have been oneof the drivers.
There's some new evidence cameout.
Speaker 2 (57:52):
Yeah, I also did forget to say that, because he
had to wear that brace.
That's actually what killed himoh, because he couldn't like
because that that first shot,because I think the first shot
hit him like I don't knowsomewhere that wouldn't have
killed him if he was not wearingthat brace yeah, his body would
have naturally slumped over andthe second bullet would have
(58:15):
never hit him wow, yeah he wouldhave lived.
Speaker 1 (58:17):
Yeah, you have like locked mobility.
Oh god, holy shit.
Okay, but there's just so somuch, it's so wild.
Speaker 2 (58:25):
But I I really just wanted to, because I I listened
to a lot of different podcastsabout this and there's still
some people that just portrayhim as like so great and so
collected and like, yeah, likehe was a womanizer, but like you
skirt past it, because theimage and you know whatever, but
he was actually just kind ofreally fucking horrible I like
(58:47):
the way you did it, becauseeveryone just covers the
assassination.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
So many people don't know all of the history.
Speaker 2 (58:53):
That right got him to be america's golden boy so
here's the thing, going back tothe top of the episode, your
question.
It's kind of like in thebeginning I think he really was
going to be a great human.
He saved people, he did reallygood and he was just a sickly
child that just read his booksand fantasize.
I think he could have been good.
But then you're put with thisfamily that's forcing you to be
(59:17):
this type of person.
You know he used to take actingclasses and he would watch
actors and watch how they movedand how they stayed calm and he
was so um, like I, just that'sso manipulative in how he could.
But he was raised that way.
I don't know if he would havebeen that way had he not been
raised and forced and his entirefamily was basically like oh
(59:39):
sorry, you died.
Next in line, be the presidentnext in line.
Speaker 1 (59:42):
That's so fucked up and he might not have just been
a womanizer.
There was also a uh curiousbest friend that he had oh,
probably, honestly I, there's somuch I wouldn't even doubt.
Speaker 2 (59:53):
No, there's so much, fuck shit.
I didn't even go through allthe affairs, I didn't even go
through all the women, I didn'teven go really through how much
jackie it's.
Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
I can't even we've been here forever, way too long.
So, anyways, any of thosethings stuck out to you, go down
the rabbit hole, cause there is.
It is so interesting it reallyis.
Wow Though, holy crap, nice job.
Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
And I thank you.
I um might've left out acertain something on purpose,
and that maybe might be yournext episode for me.
I don't know if you guys canfigure it out.
Put it in the comments below,whatever you're listening to.
Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Let's do it Guess, and since she already spoiled
mine, you might want to be aguest of mine as well.
Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Guess Zach's first, and then mine.
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Perfect.
We need to let these people go.
We've been going long.
What emoji do you want?
Oh, oh, my god what do we dofor?
What do we do for this um thewhite house and a black?
Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
there is a white house emoji okay, there we go
okay, this is a very long one.
I hope I didn't repeat myselfor stutter too much, and I am so
sorry not before you go toofast, too right end.
Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
We want to know your theories on the assassination.
Okay, now wrap it up.
Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Or just your rabbit hole that you've dived down on
him, Okay, but do all that stufffor us.
The most important thing youcan do for us is to creep it
real.
My little eyeballs.
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Goodbye.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Bye, I'm home with the dogman.
Cut the elevation, hold in theshadows.
(01:01:43):
Cut the elevation and hold withthe eyeballs.
Hope in the shadows At the IDshop and hope with the eyeballs
At the ID shop.
The door's always open At theID shop.
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