April 10, 2025 • 49 mins
Welcome To The Oddity Shop, Where The Bizarre is Always on Sale. This week, your curator Kara has the tale of the cursed Iceman.
Two German hikers made a startling discovery in the Ötztal Alps in 1991 that would forever change our understanding of the Copper Age—and potentially unleash a deadly curse.
This remarkably intact mummy (The Iceman) provides an unprecedented window into prehistoric life. But the story takes a darker turn when we examine what happened after Ötzi's discovery. Seven people connected to the Iceman have met untimely deaths—from car accidents and avalanches to rare diseases. Most chilling of all, the rescue team leader who recovered Simon's body suffered a fatal heart attack at Simon's funeral.
Could these deaths represent a modern manifestation of an ancient protective curse? Or simply coincidence magnified by our human tendency to find patterns? Join us as we examine the evidence, explore the science of natural mummification, and contemplate whether some historical discoveries are better left undisturbed.
References:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tztal_Alps
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi
- https://www.iceman.it/en/the-iceman/
- https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/otzi-the-iceman/
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummy
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catacombe_dei_Cappuccini
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalcolithic
- https://www.ripleys.com/stories/the-curse-of-otzi-the-iceman
- https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/paranormal/creatures-and-monsters/the-curse-of-otzi-the-iceman.html
- https://hungrygen.com/typesofcurses/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I want to dance with the mothman at the ID shop,
Baked in the moonlight at the IDshop.
Creep through the graveyard tothe ID shop.
The door's always open at theOddity Shop.
(00:29):
What's up, Oddballs?
Welcome back to the Oddity Shop, the podcast, where the bizarre
is always on sale and we'rebringing you creepy stories from
around the globe.
I only said creepy.
You only get one adjectivetoday, Cara.
(00:49):
How the hell are you Wow?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
you are a little sleepy boy.
I am doing fabulous, other thanyou being a sleepy boy.
How are you?
I'm good.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
We made the mistake of scheduling a live paranormal
investigation the same nightthat the time change happened,
and I just haven't recoveredsince.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, let's talk about that.
So this is our first episodesince we went live at Eloise,
which was so much fun.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Oh my.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
God and we have so many new friends.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
New friends, living and dead.
One of them tried to pull offmy pants.
I'll let you, you guys, decideif that was somebody living or
dead.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
They also tried to pull your hoodie too.
They were trying to take allyour clothes off.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Apparently so.
They may have been mad, though,because I took a picture in
their shower and they're likeget authentic then.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
You took a picture in their shower.
You took a picture at theirsink.
You took a picture on theirtoilet.
I was getting ready.
Okay, you took more picturesthan I did which is rare, rare
speaking of that, I have to sendyou one of the pictures that I
did take, because I lookdemented and it's I.
I was gonna delete it, but it'slike you got to see it okay,
(01:59):
send it to me.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Um, but we had, but it was really fun and if you
guys watched, yes, thank you forwatching.
Uh, just a couple weeks, so aweek, week and a half away from
our event over at eloise whereyou guys could join us.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So um, yeah, no, it was so much fun, so afterwards
we were able to do a little bitof, you know, a little
investigation, a little bit ofan exploration for gosh, I don't
even know, like an hour maybeyeah, about an hour something
like.
Like that, it was really fun.
We got a lot of cool stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I know I love that place.
I am just so in love with thatplace.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I am so in love with that place and they're so in
love with me.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
The spirits on the Estus Method do like you.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
They be loving me, so be jealous.
People are like dead.
People love you.
That's great, it is great.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
You're pretty great.
What else has been going on?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I feel like that was a big thing.
I feel like that was it?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
That's been it.
I'm about to have a really fun.
I'm excited to see Dixon Dallasthis weekend Really tomorrow
for me.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I'm so happy for you.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
You should have came with.
No, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Thank you, I'm so happy for you you should have
came with, but I get it Good,thank you, I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Fair, it's going to be very happy for you and Julia.
Nice.
What else is new with you?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
You already asked that Nothing.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Okay, well then open up this damn shop.
Ask me a question.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So my question is very different than we normally
do, but I think that we need tojust woosah and reflect.
And can you believe our lives?
That's my question.
I mean no, yeah, no, you cannot.
We have been so geeked.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I mean, we've had a lot of new opportunities, but
I've been manifesting this foryears.
You've been manifesting this,so we better say we believe our
lives because we've been makingthis shit happen.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I still can't believe it though.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I know We've had like so many fun investigations.
We have a lot of really funguests coming that we have on
the books.
Like this is going to be.
This is going to be a good year, guys.
We have some other surprisesfor you too, so stick around
with us.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yes too, so stick around with us.
Yes, all right.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Well, that was my question.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
That was the question .
Well, yeah, you did not give mewhat I was expecting, but okay,
all right, what do we?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
what do you got in the shop this week?
Let's talk about some Alps,like the mountains Alps.
What did you even say?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Alps, yeah, mountains .
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
What'd you think I said?
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I don't know, it sounded like Alps.
I'm like is E-L-P something?
I don't know Alps?
You said it so weird.
Okay, alps, let's talk aboutthe Alps.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Alps.
How do you say it, alps?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, the first time, though, you put your little
twang on there.
Let's talk about these Alps.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Let's talk about the Alps.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, sounds like you're saying E-L-P yes, just
get on with it.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I can't now Hold on.
I need a sip.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Oh my God, the anticipation is killing me All
right.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Specifically, we're talking about the probably going
to say it wrong.
I pronounced it on everywebsite.
Everyone says it differentOtezal Alps.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Never heard of them, so it sounds right to me.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
All right.
So this is a mountain range inthe central eastern Alps.
It's located in the state ofTyrol in western Austria and the
province of south Tyrol innorthern Italy.
Oh, I hear it's good for skiingso the highest points of these
alps is 3 774 meters, which is12, 8, no 12, 382 feet okay so
(05:37):
it's the second highest mountainin austria okay, I was like I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I'm not a big like mountaineering type of person.
I'm not a big skier.
No, I feel like I would like toclimb up it until I got like 10
minutes into it.
I would like to view them only10 minutes.
Can you take a gondola up?
It's all uphill.
If I can like ride my way tothe top, I'm going you wouldn't
even.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I would think that you would have said at least
like 15 minutes, okay, well, youknow what now?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I'm gonna say 20 just to spite you all, right, well,
moving towards going, youwouldn't even.
I would think that you wouldhave said at least like 15
minutes, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, you know what?
Now I'm going to say 20, justto spite you, all right?
Well, moving towards somethingseemingly unrelated mummies.
A mummy is a dead human or ananimal whose soft tissues and
organs have been preserved byeither intentional or accidental
exposure to chemicals, extremecold, very low humidity or lack
of air, so that the recoveredbody does not decay further if
(06:30):
kept in cool and dry conditions.
How are you feeling?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I'm glad you gave me a description because or a
definition there, because Ididn't know now if it was a
southern twang thing like theAlps, or if this was like a
British For mommy.
I'm just all confused.
I hate you.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Oh, man'm just all confused.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I hate you oh man, not as much as I hate stop
recording I'm quitting you,can't sorry, dude.
We got too much shit coming,did you not?
So anthropogenic?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
mummies were deliberately created by the
living for a number of reasons,and obviously the most common
being religious Right.
(07:17):
So spontaneous mummies werecreated unintentionally due to
natural conditions such asextremely dry heat or cold,
acidic and anaerobic conditionsanaerobic thank you very much,
and let's all just give a handto wikipedia for my help.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Thank you, uh, okay, so most money I never get a hand
for all the words.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I help you with yes, I do.
I always thank you.
Where was I the other day?
And I couldn't say somethingand in my head I was like where
the hell is, zachary?
I was about to call you and belike what am I trying to say?
Most mummies belong to thosetwo categories and that's kind
of all we're getting into, okay,okay, that's all today, folks.
Okay, now, the most commonmummies that we most likely
(08:04):
think of are of Egyptian descent, mephiveret.
The preservation of the deadhad a profound effect on ancient
Egypt religion, somummification was an integral
part of the rituals for the dead, beginning as early as the
second dynasty.
(08:25):
So, egyptians, what, do youknow?
What?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
year that is.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
About 2800 BC.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Oh my gosh, okay Wow.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Okay.
So Egyptians saw thepreservation of the body after
death as an important step tothe living into the afterlife,
which I feel like we kind of allsomewhat know.
That, yeah, it kind of likeprepares the soul Yep so that
you can continue on into knowthat.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, it kind of like prepares the soul and the
vessel and everything Yep, sothat you can continue on into
the afterlife.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Now, egyptian mummification is basically
ranked in class and I do plan todo a whole entire episode on
that, because I just love theprocess of Egyptian
mummification, but we're alsonot doing that today.
Folks, let's move on to Italy.
Mummies, the varied geographicLord, have mercy.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Wait real quick before you do this I know um
italian mummies when they do thehands, do they do it in the
typical italian fashion, likeall four or five fingertips
together, you know they shouldokay, I hope they do we're
probably offending everybody.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Probably, um, okay, so the varied geography and
climatology of Italy has led tomany cases of spontaneous
mummification.
Italian mummies display thesame diversity with a.
I can't say this word, you guys.
You jinxed me because I hadthis all conglomeration of
(09:43):
natural and intentionalmummification spread across many
centuries and cultures.
Okay, the most notable place ofmummies in Italy is the the
Vatican.
No, the Cap Cap-, cap-, cap-,cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-,
cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-,cap Cap-.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Cap Cap.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Thank you.
I think I have it all spelledout.
It is capuchin.
Okay, you jinxed me so badbecause I practiced every word
so many times.
You're just in your head.
I know I am in my head, sorryguys.
Okay, and that was establishedin the 16th century.
We are also going to move on toanother seemingly pointless
fact age, or the Cal-Calithicage, which is a archaeological
(10:29):
period characterized by theincreasing use of smelted copper
.
Did you know that?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I couldn't remember the name, but I did know the
ages are when they started usingdifferent metals.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So knowledge of the use of copper was far more
widespread than metal itself,which I didn't know.
That because I feel like a lotof things that you like look at
history or when you go tomuseums, I feel like there are a
lot of stuff that's copper.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, a lot of copper , bronze and iron.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yep, so many European archaeological cultures use
stone axes molded on copper axes.
And again, let's all thankWikipedia for my help, because I
really did need it.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Did you donate?
Huh, you better donate nexttime, they ask.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I know I do.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Okay, good.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Everybody else should donate for us as well, because
it really helps me out.
Okay, so do you see anycorrelation yet?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I have a guess as to where this is going, okay, but I
can't remember if it's Italy ornot.
Do you want my guess, or shouldI hold on to it?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Well, let me give you one more, okay Nonsensical
facts.
By now we should all know whata curse is.
What's a curse?
I'm not telling you I don'thave it, because y'all should
know.
We've talked about curses somuch.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
If you don't know, wikipedia.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, there you go.
Okay, so it's also said thatthere are three types of curses,
which I don't know if we'vegone into this, so generational
curse, cast curse and earnedcurse.
What was the second one, cast?
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Like it was cast it like cast a spell, okay, cast a
spell.
I was gonna say, if this islike old timey Europe, are we
talking like cast with an E, oris it like generational and then
cast?
I was thinking like okay.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
So generational curses are passed down from
generation to generation, withthe same problems and troubles
coming down.
The bloodline Got it Cast.
Curses can come into your lifeor somebody's life through
things that do, things you dothat cause people to curse you
(12:31):
or your life, or you speak acurse over yourself or others.
Earned or received curses comeinto your life through
practicing the occult or sinning, apparently.
All right, do you want to?
I'll take your guess now.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Well, now that you're talking a curse, I don't know,
but wasn't one of like the kindof anthropological missing link
humans found frozen in the Alpsand was mummified?
It was like one of the firstactual hominids.
I could be totally getting myscience facts wrong, but I feel
like I remember this.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
You sound smart.
Today we're talking aboutOatsie Is that the girl.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
No, okay, then I'm mistaken.
So there's more than one personfrozen in a mountain.
Cool, there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
So it's O-T-Z-I.
So again, I went through somany.
Some pronounce it almost likeEtsy, but it's Oatsie and it's
an abbreviation of the mountainrange we talked about.
I'm going to trust you so.
Or?
He is often referred to as theIceman.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Okay, yep, I've heard of the Iceman before.
So I think I was getting acouple stories mixed up there.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, I think you were, but it sounded legit Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Confidently incorrect and everyone believes you Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
There you go, all right.
So uh otzi is thought to havelived between 3350 why did I
just say that?
And 3105 bc y'all.
It's been too long, so makinghim older than the egyptian
pyramids or stone hedge that'spretty damn old yeah.
(14:08):
So because I don't want peopleto yell at me because I probably
are pronouncing it wrong, I'mjust going to call him oh from
now on, perfect.
So oh was found on september19th 1991 by two german tourists
at an elevation of 3 210 Ithink it was supposed to be feet
, but might've been meters.
(14:29):
Whoops, sorry guys.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Either way, he's high up there.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
In the Oatsall Alps, yep and the Australian Italian
border.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
The discovery of O was made by Helmut and Erica
Simpson.
Nope, simon, okay, I am so inmy head you guys.
I'm so sorry.
Just like when stumbling upon adead body and thinking it's a
mannequin, the couple thoughtthat they had just come across a
recently deceased mountaineer.
(14:59):
They was wrong.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I mean recent or not.
How jarring would that be to bejust like hiking on a mountain
and come across a dead body.
It would not be my favoritehike.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Okay, no, it wouldn't , but I'm going to be completely
honest.
I feel like that's I would inmy head.
I would expect that because Ifeel like so many people die on
mountains.
Yeah, but still.
It's not like you want to findit, but I just feel like I would
just be like, oh shit, Damn it.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
It happened, another one.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, another one.
Ok, so a mountain gendarme,which is their law enforcement
and I probably said it wrong,but I don't care attempted to
remove the body the next day,but the torso of the body was
frozen to the ground and so theycouldn't.
They were having troublegetting it.
(15:47):
They had like pickaxes andstuff and they're trying to
obviously preserve the body andtry to get it.
But let me kind of paint apicture of this, and you guys
should all look at the picturesof this body because it's wild,
it's just I don't think it'swhat you think it would look
like.
O was discovered face down inthe melting ice of a glacier.
His arm, or his left arm, wasacross his chest, like slash his
(16:12):
face, and his right arm wasdown by his side.
Okay, so, like I'm showing Zach, yeah, I got it.
So think of when you lay on theground and you put your arm
across you for support, like ifyou're laying on this on your
stomach.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, you're kind of using it as like a pillow that's
kind of what he looks like.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Okay, bad weather ultimately made the expedition
of retrieving the body end, sothey just couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
They just it was too much work to get him, to try to
preserve him, and then badweather came which also, like is
incredible that this man isolder than the pyramids, yep,
and on a glacier, yep, becausey'all glaciers move, like how it
didn't destroy his body.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
I don't know because, like they, Am I stupid.
I think I might have asked youthis before.
I thought glaciers were just inthe water.
How is it a glacier on amountain?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Uh, glaciers, as far as I know, only exist in high
points.
Oh, just in high points, ohjust in high points.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
So what it is is it's like um, okay, imagine ice age,
right when everything wascovered in ice.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yes, it was miles and miles of ice.
As that's melted and receded,that ice pull has pulled back,
so that ice carved our greatlakes yeah, it carved all the
like geography of michigan andit carves what are now lakes and
rivers and stuff.
But it sat on top and they would.
As the ice formed they wouldmove forward and as the ice
(17:32):
melted they would move back,which is like they literally
created the like hills andvalleys of Michigan.
Ok, by just carving through theearth.
So like I mean they carvethrough the earth, how the hell
does this body last that long?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I don't know so.
After that initial discovery,though, like eight groups,
trekked through the mountains tovisit the body of course, oh,
so they couldn't get it out um,well, that day they couldn't, so
the next day he was found, onthe 19th.
The next day they went.
They couldn't.
It was just they were trying topreserve the body.
It was just then a bad stormstorm came through so they
couldn't Got it.
(18:04):
They did eventually get him outon the 22nd, so it wasn't that
much farther after they foundhim and he was transported to
the office of medical examinerin Innsbruck.
Ok, so on the 24th theexamination done by
archaeologist Conrad Spindlerstarted, which how cool if you
(18:27):
were that person to start thatLike, that's crazy, this is 1991
.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Right, Like I wonder what his job looked like before
then.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
It was probably like I know, I was wondering that,
Like you know, looking atmammoth, bone fragments, and all
of a sudden you get this likeoldest man on the planet, here
you go.
Isn't that so cool, okay?
So O was a rare find.
He was stated to be in freshcondition, so obviously we
already talked about mummies, sowe kind of know that he was
(18:56):
basically a mummy.
He still had his flesh,obviously, bones and muscle
intact.
Also, his organs were wellpreserved, with an eye, some
brain, the tongue still insidehis skull, as well as his heart,
liver and lungs inside his bodythat is insane, that like that
(19:17):
wherever he landed has juststayed so cold, cold enough to
preserve it for that long that'sso crazy when you think about
thatoh yeah, I mean, the chances are
so, so slim so multiple tissueand other samples were studied
at several scientists scientificinstitute scientific institutes
instead okay, with all of themresulting in, like the
(19:42):
conclusion that the remainsbelong to someone 5,000 years
ago.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Jeez Louise, they're older than you.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Oh my God, zach always loves.
Why does Zach always lovessomething's happening.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
You're just replacing all your A's with E's today.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Something's happening , you guys, something's
happening, yeah, okay.
So Zach always just wants totalk about how old I am.
I want to give you a little bitabout O that they found, like
what they found about him.
So he was approximately fivefeet three inches tall and he
weighed Shorty.
We love short kings around here, true true, true.
(20:23):
My husband is short, in case noone knew.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
You don't have to shame him.
I'm not shaming him.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
We love short kings, true Shorty.
So he weighed 110 pounds andwas about 45 years old.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
At the time of his discovery he weighed 30 pounds
five ounces, and it wasdetermined that he most likely
spent childhood near the presentSouth Tyrol village of Felterns
.
Which that is crazy that theywere able to pinpoint so many
different things just by lookingat.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
It's crazy.
So the way that they figuredout was due to the analyst of
pollen, dust grains and theisotopic composition holy shit
of his tooth enamel.
Interesting Okay, how the helldo you figure out where he grew
(21:23):
up in his childhood by all that?
That's so fascinating to me.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, I feel like you would have to have like enough
other bodies to like start toput them in groups that way, but
that is wild.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
It blows my mind, just blows it right up.
Maybe my mind should be blownup because it's clearly not
working today.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Oh, you're doing amazing, sweetie.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I'm not, but thank you, I appreciate you.
A CAT scan was performed in2009 and his stomach content
contained partially digestedremains of goat meat.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
You know that would be a pretty solid last meal,
though.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I know so.
Dna analysts suggested he had ameal less than two hours before
his death, and I literallywrote in here which that's all
we can hope for a death with afull belly.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
True that?
Oh my God, If I die, can youimagine?
Starving oh no, I want to dieeating.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, honestly.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
That's when I'm at my happiest.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Right.
So, speaking of that, I forgotto tell you.
I got my ancestry results backand I paid for the extra traits
and stuff and one of them, oneof the traits, is hangriness.
That's literally a trait andit's like I have a high
(22:42):
propensity of beat to be ahangry person, which I am.
Oh my God, stop.
You are too.
Not as bad as me.
Not as bad, but yes, I am.
Yes, you do.
He had high levels of copperparticles and arsenic were found
, like in his hair.
This, along with his copper axblade that was found with him,
which was 99.7% pure copper, ledscientists to speculate that he
(23:07):
was involved in copper smelting.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, isn't that crazy.
That's also incredibly pure for5,000 years old.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I know, but we know everything about him, like we
knew where he grew up.
We knew how tall he was, howmuch he weighed, what he did for
a living.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
It's so weird.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
This is crazy.
I know it's so crazy to me.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I love.
I almost went to school foranthropology because I love this
shit and then I realized that,like 90% of the job would be
touching bones.
I'm like I'm out, boneswouldn't bother me.
But I can't even eat chicken onthe bone dude.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Well, I can't eat chicken on the bone either.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
You know that, but that's because it's in my mouth.
That's disgusting, I'll touchit.
I don't even want to touch it.
Okay, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
All right.
So that's that copper age thatwe talked about.
See, all my seeming usmeaningful, meaningful,
meaningless facts were actuallymeaningful, all right.
O was also found to have hadwhipworm, which was an
intestinal parasite.
So he had that when he died Notsaying that's why he died, but
(24:05):
he had it when he died.
He also had three or fourcracked ribs, which were most
likely after he died from theweight of the ice on his body.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
That would make sense .
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Again what?
It's just so crazy to me, Idon't know.
All right, some articles statehe was possibly attacked during
his trek in the mountains.
He was found with an arrow oh,excuse me, arrow deeply sunk
into his left shoulder.
I'm going to tell you guysright now, I didn't find a lot
of articles that said he hadthat in there, and even
(24:37):
Wikipedia didn't say that.
So I don't actually know ifthat part is true or if he just
had it in there and it was likehe just had had it for a long
time Like an old injury orsomething.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, like I'm not sure.
Okay, got it.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
But the thought is that he could have gotten
attacked and then possiblybleeding to death and collapsing
to die alone, which kind ofmakes sense, because if he got
shot in that left arm, that leftshoulder, he probably would
have been clutching it to hischest and then him falling and
then dying the way he did.
So it kind of makes sense, okay.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I could see it.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
But I don't know.
O was found with what is nowbeing called the Iceman Survival
Kit and he had belongingsscattered all around his body
and in his little kit.
I can list you some of thethings, not that we know what
they all are, but well, that'sanother thing we can denote
about him is he wasn't veryorganized.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
If they're just spread everywhere, I know.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
so he had medicinal fungus.
He had an arrow notch I'm notquite sure what that is A belt
of pouch the back inch of anarrow that they cut out so it
fits in the string.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
A belt in the pouch, flint tools, an owl A-W-L.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Owl, an owl, I think it's a gardening tool.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I think it is too.
You can look that up.
He had tinder fungus.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
It's like a hole punch.
Oh okay, he had tinder fungus.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Oh, okay, he had a re-torcher for working flints, a
needle needle and an arrowhead.
Okay, so that was in his littlesurvival kit.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
They say he was a copper crafter, but I think he
was maybe a fletcher.
Okay, he makes arrows, that'smy guess.
I was going to say what's afletcher?
I know I could see it in youreyes.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Well, also our listeners might not know what
that is either.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
A fletcher would be somebody who makes arrows.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
All right.
So in 2010, a study publishedsuggested that he wasn't
attacked but properly buried,allowing for a better
explanation for his incrediblepreservation.
I could keep us here for hours.
So, oh, and all the findingsand how they related each back
to specific times and places.
(26:50):
It's just so fascinating.
I could literally talk aboutthis for hours.
What was he?
Speaker 1 (26:54):
wearing.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
You know, what's so funny is that there was a whole
thing about what he was wearingand I was like I'm not going to
put it in here.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
The only reason I ask is because I feel like that
would help us speculate whetherit was like an accidental death
or a burial based.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
You're so funny, because that's exactly part of
it was.
That's why they thought that itwasn't an attack.
It was like a burial.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
OK, interesting why they thought that it wasn't an
attack.
It was like a burial.
Okay Interesting, okay, dang Ishould have added it.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I was like I had so much and I was like that's okay,
I know how it goes.
We have.
If we told the whole story ofeverything, we'd be here for
hours.
Yes, all right.
So, however, that is alsofascinating.
Like we just said, we could sithere for hours, but this is not
what fascinated me about this.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
What did was the curse of Oatsy the Iceman.
Yes, which I've never heard of.
I'm just excited for a cursebecause you mentioned it earlier
.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Sorry, so yes, my little oddball is, there's a
curse surrounding our mummy,shocker.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I can't wait, okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
All right.
Is there anything else you wantto add or talk about before we
get into our curse?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I'd really like to know what he was wearing.
No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Well, I can look it up Curse, curse, curse, curse,
okay, in 1992.
So remember, he was found in1991.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Rainer Henn, who was head of the forensic team.
Remember we talked about howcool it would have been to be
him.
Oh, no, remember, we talkedabout how cool it would have
been to be him.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
He died in a horrific car crash on his way to give a
lecture about the findings ofOatsy.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
OK, so not so cool to be him, no.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Poor guy.
And again, like I said, Rainerwas the first person to actually
put his bare hands on the bodywhile placing him in the body
bag.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
He has bare hands.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
He had the bare hands .
Maybe he had gloves on, I don'tknow.
Placing him in the body bag, hehas bare hands.
He had the bare hands, nothuman hands.
He had gloves on, I don't know.
But Claws Like this is yourworst nightmare touching bones,
all right.
So on a scale of one throughfive, on a curse factor,
starting with just that.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Coincidence.
Okay, you can't have a cursewith just one.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
All right, I'll give you a coincidence on this one,
on that one.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Perfect.
Next was the mountaineer guide,kurt Fritz, obviously well
experienced because he's theguide.
He died in a freak avalanche.
He was the only one in thegroup to be struck from falling
rocks, and in an area very, verywell known for him.
And Kurt was the mountain guidewho led Hen to the body and was
(29:22):
also one of the first to helpuncover the body.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Okay, so we're moving definitely from coincidental to
this is weird, but I'm notconvinced yet.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Okay, so next we have another Rainer, but it's Rainer
Holtzell, I believe, is how yousay it, and this was just a few
months after.
I love that first name.
Rainer I really like it.
It's very cool.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, rain for short yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I like it a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
I'm here for it.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
If you're having kids soon, name them Rainer Girl or
boy.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Or Zach, you can name them Zach as well, or, kara,
prove to us how big fans you are.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Wait, just Zach or Zachary.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Oh, zachary, or is it Zacharia if it's a female?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Zacharia.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Wait, zacharia, is that cute, Zacharia?
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Oh, you know what there's the character in Rose
Red Zakiya.
Why do I kind of like Zacharia?
Because you kind of like me Allright.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Well, anyway, kurt, poor Kurt.
He died of a brain tumorshortly after elites releasing
an hour long documentary of theexcavation.
He was the only man grantedaccess to film the removal of
the body.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Kind of seems like, whoever the Iceman was, he does
not like his story being told,or people are telling it wrong
and he's like smite you then.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, or like we kind of said, maybe it was a
purposeful burial and it wassupposed to be like a religious
burial.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Oh yeah, OK.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
You know what I mean, Like it's not supposed to be
disrupted.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
And now you like, yeah, just straight up,
desecrated his grave.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Right, like kind of like a.
You know, you always hear, likewe like again.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
That's why I added the curse of the mummy.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
It's literally the name of a movie and it's usually
like egyptian, but like itcould be in other cultures fair,
fair enough all right minutes.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
We had one of those in 2004, helmut simon missing.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
After eight days of intense searching, his body was
found not far from where Otziwas found.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I was going to say it had to be on the mountain right
.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
His crumpled body.
That's what they said.
Crumpled body was found in asmall stream, having fallen some
300 feet from a treacherousledge after a freak blizzard
passed through.
And if you didn't remember,helmut and his helmut and his
wife were the ones that foundotzi in the first place yeah,
(31:46):
they.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Nobody should have ever messed with this.
I don't know why I'm gettinglike vibes from courage the
cowardly dog.
Return the slab.
Return the ice man okay.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
So I know you, like og listeners, will know that
zach a long ass time ago took apiece from the traverse city of
same asylum and then had he wascursed for a while I have not
found the best way to return ityet you still haven't returned
that I think that curse hascompletely gone away.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Well, what I was going to say?
I completely gone away.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Well, what I was going to say, I thought you got
rid of it.
What I was going to say is thatwhen we were at Eloise, we were
packing up our bags and hekicked like a piece of like,
something fell like, or like wekicked it.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
It was like a piece of concrete from the ceiling, or
plaster, and he picked it up.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
I think it was a piece of like metal, but he
anyway it doesn't matter up, Ithink it's a piece of like metal
, but he anyway it doesn'tmatter.
He picked it up and I said, putthat right down.
You are not taking that home.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
I was just like it was around my pile of stuff.
I wanted to see if it was mineor not, but no, I learned my
lesson the first time okay,crazy enough.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
dieter warncheck, I believe died of a heart attack
at helmetsmut's funeral At hisfucking funeral.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Okay, who is Dieter again?
Is that his wife?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
No, no that was what the fuck was her name?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Oh, who's Dieter, though?
Would you let me finish?
Oh well, get on with it then.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
He was the head of the mountain rescue team sent to
look for Helmut when he wentmissing.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Oh, they should never have touched this man.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Oh my God.
So can you imagine he wentlooking for this man, found that
he was dead, went to hisfuneral out of just like you
know.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I'm sure just being a nice, kind soul, and then had a
heart attack and died at thefuneral.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
OK, I have some thoughts going, but let's go.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
No, tell me, what are they?
Speaker 1 (33:36):
well, are there more deaths?
Because what if?
What if the ice man wasn'tburied there, nor did he just
die there?
What if he was cursed, maybe,and he died on that mountain?
And now everyone who touchedhim, like okay, got his curse?
Speaker 2 (33:52):
so archeological, archeological archeological
archeologist.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Just move past it and say the next words conrad
spindler died of complicationsfrom multiple sclerosis.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Sclerosis, jesus christ.
He was one of the firstscientists to examine the mummy.
He also publicly scoffed at thecurse, declaring, and I will
quote it is all a media hype.
The next thing you will besaying, I will be next.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Oh no, don't, don't test it, man he did, he's dead
right I already told you that.
Oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
But he died of complications of his multiple
sclerosis, which he shouldn'thave died from.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
I think you got cursed with a brain tumor and
that's why you can't say allyour words.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Don't say that that's so awful.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Okay, you got cursed with a temporary brain aneurysm.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
I really hate that you said that, because I've been
thinking I have a brain tumor.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
You do not have a brain tumor.
If you do, we're naming itIceman.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
I hate you.
Now I'm really not schedulingthat doctor's appointment.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
It's better to know.
But you don't have a tumor.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
It would be a lot harder than or you'd have a lot
more issues than just sayingwords.
Girl, Zachary is so mean to meyou guys.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Oh, you'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
If I have a brain tumor, I hope I die and I'm
gonna haunt you way more thananybody else does.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I'd be down for that.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
You wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Will you at least scratch my back at like once a
month?
Speaker 2 (35:30):
You think you have it bad now.
Oh, baby, all right, are youready for the next?
Speaker 1 (35:36):
I'm ready for the next.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Tom Loy was diagnosed with a rare hereditary blood
condition.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
I would have died if you said brain tumor.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Somebody already died of a brain tumor or no?
They didn't Hard to say, wouldit?
No, yeah, no, hasn't been abrain tumor yet.
He died just prior tocompleting a book about O, and
he also didn't believe in thecurse and insisted that it was
all pure wild superstition.
(36:06):
Loy was the moleculararchaeologist who had discovered
four different types of bloodon both the Iceman's clothing
and his weapons.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Oh, I see he was a fighter.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
But isn't that weird that he then died of a blood
condition?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
That is a little bit weird.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Okay, so now I'm going to ask you do you believe
this is a coincidence or a curse?
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Oh, it's definitely a coincidence.
No, I'm kidding, okay.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
So I was going to gonna say do you think it's
generational, cast cursed orearned curse?
But you are kind of thinking.
Well, here.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Here's the question I was going to ask you, because
this might help help us pare itdown do you think these people
are being cursed simply becausethey found him in a retelling
his story, or do you thinkthey're being cursed because
they are like a couple of themhave kind of challenged the
curse or challenged things abouthim?
So is it just the presence ofbeing around him or is it like
(37:08):
not respecting him?
Because I don't think it'sgenerational.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
No, I don't think it's generational.
That doesn't make sense to me.
Think it's generational no, Idon't think it's generational.
That doesn't make sense to me.
But I don't think it's becauseof lack of respect, because
these are all people that arewell characteristically like
respectable jobs and like theseare their jobs to do these
things and they're, like youknow, researching about him and
trying to figure out his lifeand like writing about him and
doing documentaries and stuff.
So I don't think it's like lackof respect.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
So I almost feel like we need a fourth category then
yeah, I mean because I don'tfeel like they're earning them.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I don't think that I don't know.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I cast it on them.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
I think we need a fourth category of accidental
curses like they've stumbledinto a curse, I guess I would
fall under earned I was gonnasay I think it's earned curse,
whether it's like you just said,like I think it's earned curse,
whether it's like you just said, like I think it's like we're
disrupting Like a sacred body.
I don't know if I believe he wasattacked.
I think he might have Eitherjust accidentally died there or
(38:08):
he, like I said, the last Partwas that it was probable that
this was an actual burial, whichI kind of think makes sense,
and that's why his stuff wasplaced around him, like it was
like his little grave, you know.
So I kind of think that makessense and whether like the
earned curse, again we can gooff whatever we believe.
But it's stated that it's likebecause of practices of like the
(38:30):
occult or whatever.
So maybe it was a sacred burialand it was not to be disturbed
and now these people aredisturbing it.
I don't necessarily think it'sbecause they're being
disrespectful, I think maybeit's just because they just
disturbed the burial.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
It's interesting too, because I remember learning
about him in school, both likeliterally you know, grade school
, high school and college andit's kind of like one of those
things where you learn thehistory of, like you know, the
history of America, where as youget older you get the real
story more and more, but I'venever heard of all the people
dying around it.
It's just like, oh hey, it'sthe Iceman.
Um, have you ever seen themovie the Autopsy of Jane Doe?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
No, oh, I've heard of it, but no, okay, without
giving.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
I don't want to spoil it, don't, but I think if
you're you're struggling tofigure out what kind of curse
this might be, there might be anexplanation within that movie.
And if you guys haven't seen it, it it is one of the best
horror movies I've ever seen andjust being like really original
, um, it's good.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Okay, I can't say more than that because I don't
want to spoil it for you and Iknow I know you'll like this one
.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
It's not one of the usual ones where I'm like, have
you?
Seen this, and then you say noand you say I'm never gonna see
it.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
You need to see this yeah, I think that it is kind of
like an earned curse which,whatever way you want to take it
, how it was earned, whether itwas just because you fucked with
a body that was like restfully,you know, in peace, or, like
you said, was he already cursed,and then I guess I would think
that that would be an earnedcurse because you messed with a
(40:03):
cursed person.
But I don't know.
I just thought this, this wasso fascinating, like the whole
thing of just like finding himbeing 5 000 years old or more,
preserved so perfectly, and thenall of these people that
touched him or in some wayworked on him it kind of reminds
(40:26):
me of way, way, way back when,when we covered the hope diamond
well, where it was almost likethe chain of command of the hope
diamond.
Everyone who touched it were allaffected or yeah, um, james
dean's car, just like peopletouching the car, the tire, like
things like that.
But I don't know.
I found this one like crazy,like the hope, diamond was crazy
, but this is like I.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
I feel like the other two were a little bit more open
for speculation because theywere accidental deaths.
These are not accidental theseare crazy.
Yeah, no, this is probably oneof the best evidences of curse
that we've had.
I just want to know, I wonderif his was like a ritual killing
oh, maybe you know, maybe lessof like uh.
(41:10):
What was the word you used forthe type of burial like uh?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
sacred sacred.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
What if it was like the opposite?
Speaker 2 (41:16):
and that's why people are having the negative effects
now listen, like I said,there's so much research on him
where he came from differenttypes of things, so there
probably is stuff about, youknow, different speculations and
stuff like that, but I wastrying to not put so much in
there.
Yeah, but I just thought it wascool because it gave us a lot
of history.
A mummy I'd be loving me amummy and then a curse, hello
(41:40):
now I gotta do some research.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
So this is I.
I was, like I said it was, areally big anthro geek in
college until I realized I wouldhave to like physically touch
the bones myself.
But there was an ice woman too,wasn't there that, like, I
think ice man was found firstand then the woman I was getting
the stories confused, but Ithink she was found later.
That was like some sort ofmissing, like humans to
(42:02):
neanderthal, like some missinglink, but frozen too.
But that to me is always socrazy to think right Of, like
comparison to New Orleans, wherea body turns to dust in years.
Yep, this thing is perfectlypreserved for 5,000 years.
Just what you can learn from it.
(42:23):
I mean, I wouldn't want tolearn from this one.
No, thank you.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
But for most of them that aren't cursed, kind of like
thinking like am I gonna becursed?
I didn't touch it, I just,respectively, talked about you.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
I don't know who I can write a letter to I was just
gonna say you, you better writea letter somewhere.
Do some nowhere, nowheremeditation I know nowhere.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
said just talking about him cursed you, it was
just a touching.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
But oddly enough, speaking of our letter, robert,
oh no.
He'd be coming up in my life alot lately.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Robert the doll how.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Because I have that postcard or that picture of him
that we got at Payicon and Igrabbed a book the other day and
it fell out and it was just thefloor face up and I was like,
oh hey, robert, and then I justnicely put him back and then I
was scrolling on like instagramor something and he's popped up
multiple times and I haven'tspoke about him, so I don't know
(43:22):
why he would just keep poppingup.
So now I think that I need towrite another letter maybe we
need to go visit him I have somany places we need to visit I
do really want to visit robert,but I'm not gonna lie, I'm also
really that's a good one to havea healthy I don't want to say
scared I'm worried fair, becauseI'm not afraid of him, I'm just
(43:45):
I think as long as when you'rearound him, you're respectable
and you don't take the picturesyes, don't take pictures of
robert.
Follow the rules and you're bigotherwise you'll get ball
cancer, like colby did no thanks, I'm good all right.
Well, that is what I have for ustoday I, I love that.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
That got me kind of going in like my geeky history
way I know I loved it but thenyou know also a curse.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
So I know it was so fun.
It was like everything it was.
It was well done, well done Iwanted to do like another
haunted stuff, but I was like Ifelt like we've done some
hauntings lately.
We just encrypted, we didaliens and then this has been on
the top of my list and I waslike a curse.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
We haven't done like really like a curse like this in
a minute and still, just, Imean, the story of him alone is
I know, yeah, so oh, what?
You know what it's close tothat we still need to do.
What bog bodies?
Speaker 2 (44:38):
yes, we do, we do oh okay all right, more ideas
speaking of that, our ask fromyou guys is recommendations of
what you want to hear, becauseit would be so nice to just have
ideas of what you guys areinterested in and then we can do
the research for you and thentalk about it.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
And we always ask for write-ins, but not specifically
.
Here's one.
Here's a specific ask If youever think that you or a loved
one has been cursed, we want tohear about it.
Yes, send us your curse stories.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
I don't think there's a mummy emoji, is there?
Speaker 1 (45:18):
I think there's probably a mountain, okay.
You could do like a mountainand a man.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
So leave a mountain and a man, there's probably an
axe.
Whatever, leave a mountain,leave something and do us a
favor.
We haven't specifically askedin a while, but follow us on our
Instagram, our TikTok, ourYouTube, because we are trying
to branch out on differentlevels of social media and it
(45:44):
really helps us.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
You're going to get a lot more than what we had been
giving you.
That's part of our new socialmedia stuff we have going, so it
is a good time if you're notalready following it does help
us other than you guys justlistening and supporting us.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
That way it does really help us.
And we also do have a patreon,so we have a lot of cool stuff
going on there and it's going toget cooler as the year
progresses.
So follow us on there and youdon't have to pay.
We do have free, so you do getfree things.
So don't feel obligated, butfollow us on that as well.
Um, that's really all I havefor you guys.
I really love you andappreciate you and like my
(46:18):
question that Zachary failed.
I cannot believe this is ourlife.
I'm very excited.
I'm very grateful for all ofyou guys.
I know Zach is too.
I'm just giving him shit.
But, we have so much stuffcoming and it's just very, very
exciting and we thank youbecause we could not do it
without you guys.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Absolutely, and with that we're closing the shop.
So now you got to get out, youdon't have to go home, but you
can't stay here, you can't stayhere.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
So the most important thing you can do for us is to
creepy real yabels.
Goodbye, bye, goodbye bye.
You almost took my.
Why did I almost?
Speaker 1 (46:52):
say it.
Do you want to try it?
I?
Speaker 2 (46:53):
haven't, I haven't go next to it.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
No, do it, do it do it, creep it really, oddballs,
nope it doesn't feel right bye.
Thank you At the IA Shop, athome with the oddballs.
(47:20):
At the IA Shop, the door'salways open At the IA Shop.
I want to dance with the mothman at the ID shop,
Baked in the moonlight at the IDshop.
Creep through the graveyard tothe ID shop.
The door's always open at theOddity Shop.
(00:29):
What's up, Oddballs?
Welcome back to the Oddity Shop, the podcast, where the bizarre
is always on sale and we'rebringing you creepy stories from
around the globe.
I only said creepy.
You only get one adjectivetoday, Cara.
(00:49):
How the hell are you Wow?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
you are a little sleepy boy.
I am doing fabulous, other thanyou being a sleepy boy.
How are you?
I'm good.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
We made the mistake of scheduling a live paranormal
investigation the same nightthat the time change happened,
and I just haven't recoveredsince.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, let's talk about that.
So this is our first episodesince we went live at Eloise,
which was so much fun.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Oh my.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
God and we have so many new friends.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
New friends, living and dead.
One of them tried to pull offmy pants.
I'll let you, you guys, decideif that was somebody living or
dead.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
They also tried to pull your hoodie too.
They were trying to take allyour clothes off.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Apparently so.
They may have been mad, though,because I took a picture in
their shower and they're likeget authentic then.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
You took a picture in their shower.
You took a picture at theirsink.
You took a picture on theirtoilet.
I was getting ready.
Okay, you took more picturesthan I did which is rare, rare
speaking of that, I have to sendyou one of the pictures that I
did take, because I lookdemented and it's I.
I was gonna delete it, but it'slike you got to see it okay,
(01:59):
send it to me.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Um, but we had, but it was really fun and if you
guys watched, yes, thank you forwatching.
Uh, just a couple weeks, so aweek, week and a half away from
our event over at eloise whereyou guys could join us.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So um, yeah, no, it was so much fun, so afterwards
we were able to do a little bitof, you know, a little
investigation, a little bit ofan exploration for gosh, I don't
even know, like an hour maybeyeah, about an hour something
like.
Like that, it was really fun.
We got a lot of cool stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I know I love that place.
I am just so in love with thatplace.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I am so in love with that place and they're so in
love with me.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
The spirits on the Estus Method do like you.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
They be loving me, so be jealous.
People are like dead.
People love you.
That's great, it is great.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
You're pretty great.
What else has been going on?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I feel like that was a big thing.
I feel like that was it?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
That's been it.
I'm about to have a really fun.
I'm excited to see Dixon Dallasthis weekend Really tomorrow
for me.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I'm so happy for you.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
You should have came with.
No, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Thank you, I'm so happy for you you should have
came with, but I get it Good,thank you, I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Fair, it's going to be very happy for you and Julia.
Nice.
What else is new with you?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
You already asked that Nothing.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Okay, well then open up this damn shop.
Ask me a question.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So my question is very different than we normally
do, but I think that we need tojust woosah and reflect.
And can you believe our lives?
That's my question.
I mean no, yeah, no, you cannot.
We have been so geeked.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I mean, we've had a lot of new opportunities, but
I've been manifesting this foryears.
You've been manifesting this,so we better say we believe our
lives because we've been makingthis shit happen.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I still can't believe it though.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I know We've had like so many fun investigations.
We have a lot of really funguests coming that we have on
the books.
Like this is going to be.
This is going to be a good year, guys.
We have some other surprisesfor you too, so stick around
with us.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yes too, so stick around with us.
Yes, all right.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Well, that was my question.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
That was the question .
Well, yeah, you did not give mewhat I was expecting, but okay,
all right, what do we?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
what do you got in the shop this week?
Let's talk about some Alps,like the mountains Alps.
What did you even say?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Alps, yeah, mountains .
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
What'd you think I said?
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I don't know, it sounded like Alps.
I'm like is E-L-P something?
I don't know Alps?
You said it so weird.
Okay, alps, let's talk aboutthe Alps.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Alps.
How do you say it, alps?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, the first time, though, you put your little
twang on there.
Let's talk about these Alps.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Let's talk about the Alps.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, sounds like you're saying E-L-P yes, just
get on with it.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I can't now Hold on.
I need a sip.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Oh my God, the anticipation is killing me All
right.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Specifically, we're talking about the probably going
to say it wrong.
I pronounced it on everywebsite.
Everyone says it differentOtezal Alps.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Never heard of them, so it sounds right to me.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
All right.
So this is a mountain range inthe central eastern Alps.
It's located in the state ofTyrol in western Austria and the
province of south Tyrol innorthern Italy.
Oh, I hear it's good for skiingso the highest points of these
alps is 3 774 meters, which is12, 8, no 12, 382 feet okay so
(05:37):
it's the second highest mountainin austria okay, I was like I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I'm not a big like mountaineering type of person.
I'm not a big skier.
No, I feel like I would like toclimb up it until I got like 10
minutes into it.
I would like to view them only10 minutes.
Can you take a gondola up?
It's all uphill.
If I can like ride my way tothe top, I'm going you wouldn't
even.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I would think that you would have said at least
like 15 minutes, okay, well, youknow what now?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I'm gonna say 20 just to spite you all, right, well,
moving towards going, youwouldn't even.
I would think that you wouldhave said at least like 15
minutes, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, you know what?
Now I'm going to say 20, justto spite you, all right?
Well, moving towards somethingseemingly unrelated mummies.
A mummy is a dead human or ananimal whose soft tissues and
organs have been preserved byeither intentional or accidental
exposure to chemicals, extremecold, very low humidity or lack
of air, so that the recoveredbody does not decay further if
(06:30):
kept in cool and dry conditions.
How are you feeling?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I'm glad you gave me a description because or a
definition there, because Ididn't know now if it was a
southern twang thing like theAlps, or if this was like a
British For mommy.
I'm just all confused.
I hate you.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Oh, man'm just all confused.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I hate you oh man, not as much as I hate stop
recording I'm quitting you,can't sorry, dude.
We got too much shit coming,did you not?
So anthropogenic?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
mummies were deliberately created by the
living for a number of reasons,and obviously the most common
being religious Right.
(07:17):
So spontaneous mummies werecreated unintentionally due to
natural conditions such asextremely dry heat or cold,
acidic and anaerobic conditionsanaerobic thank you very much,
and let's all just give a handto wikipedia for my help.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Thank you, uh, okay, so most money I never get a hand
for all the words.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I help you with yes, I do.
I always thank you.
Where was I the other day?
And I couldn't say somethingand in my head I was like where
the hell is, zachary?
I was about to call you and belike what am I trying to say?
Most mummies belong to thosetwo categories and that's kind
of all we're getting into, okay,okay, that's all today, folks.
Okay, now, the most commonmummies that we most likely
(08:04):
think of are of Egyptian descent, mephiveret.
The preservation of the deadhad a profound effect on ancient
Egypt religion, somummification was an integral
part of the rituals for the dead, beginning as early as the
second dynasty.
(08:25):
So, egyptians, what, do youknow?
What?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
year that is.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
About 2800 BC.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Oh my gosh, okay Wow.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Okay.
So Egyptians saw thepreservation of the body after
death as an important step tothe living into the afterlife,
which I feel like we kind of allsomewhat know.
That, yeah, it kind of likeprepares the soul Yep so that
you can continue on into knowthat.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, it kind of like prepares the soul and the
vessel and everything Yep, sothat you can continue on into
the afterlife.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Now, egyptian mummification is basically
ranked in class and I do plan todo a whole entire episode on
that, because I just love theprocess of Egyptian
mummification, but we're alsonot doing that today.
Folks, let's move on to Italy.
Mummies, the varied geographicLord, have mercy.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Wait real quick before you do this I know um
italian mummies when they do thehands, do they do it in the
typical italian fashion, likeall four or five fingertips
together, you know they shouldokay, I hope they do we're
probably offending everybody.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Probably, um, okay, so the varied geography and
climatology of Italy has led tomany cases of spontaneous
mummification.
Italian mummies display thesame diversity with a.
I can't say this word, you guys.
You jinxed me because I hadthis all conglomeration of
(09:43):
natural and intentionalmummification spread across many
centuries and cultures.
Okay, the most notable place ofmummies in Italy is the the
Vatican.
No, the Cap Cap-, cap-, cap-,cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-,
cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-,cap Cap-.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Cap Cap.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Thank you.
I think I have it all spelledout.
It is capuchin.
Okay, you jinxed me so badbecause I practiced every word
so many times.
You're just in your head.
I know I am in my head, sorryguys.
Okay, and that was establishedin the 16th century.
We are also going to move on toanother seemingly pointless
fact age, or the Cal-Calithicage, which is a archaeological
(10:29):
period characterized by theincreasing use of smelted copper
.
Did you know that?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I couldn't remember the name, but I did know the
ages are when they started usingdifferent metals.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So knowledge of the use of copper was far more
widespread than metal itself,which I didn't know.
That because I feel like a lotof things that you like look at
history or when you go tomuseums, I feel like there are a
lot of stuff that's copper.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, a lot of copper , bronze and iron.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yep, so many European archaeological cultures use
stone axes molded on copper axes.
And again, let's all thankWikipedia for my help, because I
really did need it.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Did you donate?
Huh, you better donate nexttime, they ask.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I know I do.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Okay, good.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Everybody else should donate for us as well, because
it really helps me out.
Okay, so do you see anycorrelation yet?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I have a guess as to where this is going, okay, but I
can't remember if it's Italy ornot.
Do you want my guess, or shouldI hold on to it?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Well, let me give you one more, okay Nonsensical
facts.
By now we should all know whata curse is.
What's a curse?
I'm not telling you I don'thave it, because y'all should
know.
We've talked about curses somuch.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
If you don't know, wikipedia.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, there you go.
Okay, so it's also said thatthere are three types of curses,
which I don't know if we'vegone into this, so generational
curse, cast curse and earnedcurse.
What was the second one, cast?
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Like it was cast it like cast a spell, okay, cast a
spell.
I was gonna say, if this islike old timey Europe, are we
talking like cast with an E, oris it like generational and then
cast?
I was thinking like okay.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
So generational curses are passed down from
generation to generation, withthe same problems and troubles
coming down.
The bloodline Got it Cast.
Curses can come into your lifeor somebody's life through
things that do, things you dothat cause people to curse you
(12:31):
or your life, or you speak acurse over yourself or others.
Earned or received curses comeinto your life through
practicing the occult or sinning, apparently.
All right, do you want to?
I'll take your guess now.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Well, now that you're talking a curse, I don't know,
but wasn't one of like the kindof anthropological missing link
humans found frozen in the Alpsand was mummified?
It was like one of the firstactual hominids.
I could be totally getting myscience facts wrong, but I feel
like I remember this.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
You sound smart.
Today we're talking aboutOatsie Is that the girl.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
No, okay, then I'm mistaken.
So there's more than one personfrozen in a mountain.
Cool, there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
So it's O-T-Z-I.
So again, I went through somany.
Some pronounce it almost likeEtsy, but it's Oatsie and it's
an abbreviation of the mountainrange we talked about.
I'm going to trust you so.
Or?
He is often referred to as theIceman.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Okay, yep, I've heard of the Iceman before.
So I think I was getting acouple stories mixed up there.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, I think you were, but it sounded legit Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Confidently incorrect and everyone believes you Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
There you go, all right.
So uh otzi is thought to havelived between 3350 why did I
just say that?
And 3105 bc y'all.
It's been too long, so makinghim older than the egyptian
pyramids or stone hedge that'spretty damn old yeah.
(14:08):
So because I don't want peopleto yell at me because I probably
are pronouncing it wrong, I'mjust going to call him oh from
now on, perfect.
So oh was found on september19th 1991 by two german tourists
at an elevation of 3 210 Ithink it was supposed to be feet
, but might've been meters.
(14:29):
Whoops, sorry guys.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Either way, he's high up there.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
In the Oatsall Alps, yep and the Australian Italian
border.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
The discovery of O was made by Helmut and Erica
Simpson.
Nope, simon, okay, I am so inmy head you guys.
I'm so sorry.
Just like when stumbling upon adead body and thinking it's a
mannequin, the couple thoughtthat they had just come across a
recently deceased mountaineer.
(14:59):
They was wrong.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I mean recent or not.
How jarring would that be to bejust like hiking on a mountain
and come across a dead body.
It would not be my favoritehike.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Okay, no, it wouldn't , but I'm going to be completely
honest.
I feel like that's I would inmy head.
I would expect that because Ifeel like so many people die on
mountains.
Yeah, but still.
It's not like you want to findit, but I just feel like I would
just be like, oh shit, Damn it.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
It happened, another one.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, another one.
Ok, so a mountain gendarme,which is their law enforcement
and I probably said it wrong,but I don't care attempted to
remove the body the next day,but the torso of the body was
frozen to the ground and so theycouldn't.
They were having troublegetting it.
(15:47):
They had like pickaxes andstuff and they're trying to
obviously preserve the body andtry to get it.
But let me kind of paint apicture of this, and you guys
should all look at the picturesof this body because it's wild,
it's just I don't think it'swhat you think it would look
like.
O was discovered face down inthe melting ice of a glacier.
His arm, or his left arm, wasacross his chest, like slash his
(16:12):
face, and his right arm wasdown by his side.
Okay, so, like I'm showing Zach, yeah, I got it.
So think of when you lay on theground and you put your arm
across you for support, like ifyou're laying on this on your
stomach.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, you're kind of using it as like a pillow that's
kind of what he looks like.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Okay, bad weather ultimately made the expedition
of retrieving the body end, sothey just couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
They just it was too much work to get him, to try to
preserve him, and then badweather came which also, like is
incredible that this man isolder than the pyramids, yep,
and on a glacier, yep, becausey'all glaciers move, like how it
didn't destroy his body.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
I don't know because, like they, Am I stupid.
I think I might have asked youthis before.
I thought glaciers were just inthe water.
How is it a glacier on amountain?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Uh, glaciers, as far as I know, only exist in high
points.
Oh, just in high points, ohjust in high points.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
So what it is is it's like um, okay, imagine ice age,
right when everything wascovered in ice.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yes, it was miles and miles of ice.
As that's melted and receded,that ice pull has pulled back,
so that ice carved our greatlakes yeah, it carved all the
like geography of michigan andit carves what are now lakes and
rivers and stuff.
But it sat on top and they would.
As the ice formed they wouldmove forward and as the ice
(17:32):
melted they would move back,which is like they literally
created the like hills andvalleys of Michigan.
Ok, by just carving through theearth.
So like I mean they carvethrough the earth, how the hell
does this body last that long?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I don't know so.
After that initial discovery,though, like eight groups,
trekked through the mountains tovisit the body of course, oh,
so they couldn't get it out um,well, that day they couldn't, so
the next day he was found, onthe 19th.
The next day they went.
They couldn't.
It was just they were trying topreserve the body.
It was just then a bad stormstorm came through so they
couldn't Got it.
(18:04):
They did eventually get him outon the 22nd, so it wasn't that
much farther after they foundhim and he was transported to
the office of medical examinerin Innsbruck.
Ok, so on the 24th theexamination done by
archaeologist Conrad Spindlerstarted, which how cool if you
(18:27):
were that person to start thatLike, that's crazy, this is 1991
.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Right, Like I wonder what his job looked like before
then.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
It was probably like I know, I was wondering that,
Like you know, looking atmammoth, bone fragments, and all
of a sudden you get this likeoldest man on the planet, here
you go.
Isn't that so cool, okay?
So O was a rare find.
He was stated to be in freshcondition, so obviously we
already talked about mummies, sowe kind of know that he was
(18:56):
basically a mummy.
He still had his flesh,obviously, bones and muscle
intact.
Also, his organs were wellpreserved, with an eye, some
brain, the tongue still insidehis skull, as well as his heart,
liver and lungs inside his bodythat is insane, that like that
(19:17):
wherever he landed has juststayed so cold, cold enough to
preserve it for that long that'sso crazy when you think about
thatoh yeah, I mean, the chances are
so, so slim so multiple tissueand other samples were studied
at several scientists scientificinstitute scientific institutes
instead okay, with all of themresulting in, like the
(19:42):
conclusion that the remainsbelong to someone 5,000 years
ago.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Jeez Louise, they're older than you.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Oh my God, zach always loves.
Why does Zach always lovessomething's happening.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
You're just replacing all your A's with E's today.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Something's happening , you guys, something's
happening, yeah, okay.
So Zach always just wants totalk about how old I am.
I want to give you a little bitabout O that they found, like
what they found about him.
So he was approximately fivefeet three inches tall and he
weighed Shorty.
We love short kings around here, true true, true.
(20:23):
My husband is short, in case noone knew.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
You don't have to shame him.
I'm not shaming him.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
We love short kings, true Shorty.
So he weighed 110 pounds andwas about 45 years old.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
At the time of his discovery he weighed 30 pounds
five ounces, and it wasdetermined that he most likely
spent childhood near the presentSouth Tyrol village of Felterns
.
Which that is crazy that theywere able to pinpoint so many
different things just by lookingat.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
It's crazy.
So the way that they figuredout was due to the analyst of
pollen, dust grains and theisotopic composition holy shit
of his tooth enamel.
Interesting Okay, how the helldo you figure out where he grew
(21:23):
up in his childhood by all that?
That's so fascinating to me.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, I feel like you would have to have like enough
other bodies to like start toput them in groups that way, but
that is wild.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
It blows my mind, just blows it right up.
Maybe my mind should be blownup because it's clearly not
working today.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Oh, you're doing amazing, sweetie.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I'm not, but thank you, I appreciate you.
A CAT scan was performed in2009 and his stomach content
contained partially digestedremains of goat meat.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
You know that would be a pretty solid last meal,
though.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I know so.
Dna analysts suggested he had ameal less than two hours before
his death, and I literallywrote in here which that's all
we can hope for a death with afull belly.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
True that?
Oh my God, If I die, can youimagine?
Starving oh no, I want to dieeating.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, honestly.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
That's when I'm at my happiest.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Right.
So, speaking of that, I forgotto tell you.
I got my ancestry results backand I paid for the extra traits
and stuff and one of them, oneof the traits, is hangriness.
That's literally a trait andit's like I have a high
(22:42):
propensity of beat to be ahangry person, which I am.
Oh my God, stop.
You are too.
Not as bad as me.
Not as bad, but yes, I am.
Yes, you do.
He had high levels of copperparticles and arsenic were found
, like in his hair.
This, along with his copper axblade that was found with him,
which was 99.7% pure copper, ledscientists to speculate that he
(23:07):
was involved in copper smelting.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, isn't that crazy.
That's also incredibly pure for5,000 years old.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I know, but we know everything about him, like we
knew where he grew up.
We knew how tall he was, howmuch he weighed, what he did for
a living.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
It's so weird.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
This is crazy.
I know it's so crazy to me.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I love.
I almost went to school foranthropology because I love this
shit and then I realized that,like 90% of the job would be
touching bones.
I'm like I'm out, boneswouldn't bother me.
But I can't even eat chicken onthe bone dude.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Well, I can't eat chicken on the bone either.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
You know that, but that's because it's in my mouth.
That's disgusting, I'll touchit.
I don't even want to touch it.
Okay, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
All right.
So that's that copper age thatwe talked about.
See, all my seeming usmeaningful, meaningful,
meaningless facts were actuallymeaningful, all right.
O was also found to have hadwhipworm, which was an
intestinal parasite.
So he had that when he died Notsaying that's why he died, but
(24:05):
he had it when he died.
He also had three or fourcracked ribs, which were most
likely after he died from theweight of the ice on his body.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
That would make sense .
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Again what?
It's just so crazy to me, Idon't know.
All right, some articles statehe was possibly attacked during
his trek in the mountains.
He was found with an arrow oh,excuse me, arrow deeply sunk
into his left shoulder.
I'm going to tell you guysright now, I didn't find a lot
of articles that said he hadthat in there, and even
(24:37):
Wikipedia didn't say that.
So I don't actually know ifthat part is true or if he just
had it in there and it was likehe just had had it for a long
time Like an old injury orsomething.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, like I'm not sure.
Okay, got it.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
But the thought is that he could have gotten
attacked and then possiblybleeding to death and collapsing
to die alone, which kind ofmakes sense, because if he got
shot in that left arm, that leftshoulder, he probably would
have been clutching it to hischest and then him falling and
then dying the way he did.
So it kind of makes sense, okay.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I could see it.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
But I don't know.
O was found with what is nowbeing called the Iceman Survival
Kit and he had belongingsscattered all around his body
and in his little kit.
I can list you some of thethings, not that we know what
they all are, but well, that'sanother thing we can denote
about him is he wasn't veryorganized.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
If they're just spread everywhere, I know.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
so he had medicinal fungus.
He had an arrow notch I'm notquite sure what that is A belt
of pouch the back inch of anarrow that they cut out so it
fits in the string.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
A belt in the pouch, flint tools, an owl A-W-L.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Owl, an owl, I think it's a gardening tool.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I think it is too.
You can look that up.
He had tinder fungus.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
It's like a hole punch.
Oh okay, he had tinder fungus.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Oh, okay, he had a re-torcher for working flints, a
needle needle and an arrowhead.
Okay, so that was in his littlesurvival kit.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
They say he was a copper crafter, but I think he
was maybe a fletcher.
Okay, he makes arrows, that'smy guess.
I was going to say what's afletcher?
I know I could see it in youreyes.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Well, also our listeners might not know what
that is either.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
A fletcher would be somebody who makes arrows.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
All right.
So in 2010, a study publishedsuggested that he wasn't
attacked but properly buried,allowing for a better
explanation for his incrediblepreservation.
I could keep us here for hours.
So, oh, and all the findingsand how they related each back
to specific times and places.
(26:50):
It's just so fascinating.
I could literally talk aboutthis for hours.
What was he?
Speaker 1 (26:54):
wearing.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
You know, what's so funny is that there was a whole
thing about what he was wearingand I was like I'm not going to
put it in here.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
The only reason I ask is because I feel like that
would help us speculate whetherit was like an accidental death
or a burial based.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
You're so funny, because that's exactly part of
it was.
That's why they thought that itwasn't an attack.
It was like a burial.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
OK, interesting why they thought that it wasn't an
attack.
It was like a burial.
Okay Interesting, okay, dang Ishould have added it.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I was like I had so much and I was like that's okay,
I know how it goes.
We have.
If we told the whole story ofeverything, we'd be here for
hours.
Yes, all right.
So, however, that is alsofascinating.
Like we just said, we could sithere for hours, but this is not
what fascinated me about this.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
What did was the curse of Oatsy the Iceman.
Yes, which I've never heard of.
I'm just excited for a cursebecause you mentioned it earlier
.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Sorry, so yes, my little oddball is, there's a
curse surrounding our mummy,shocker.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I can't wait, okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
All right.
Is there anything else you wantto add or talk about before we
get into our curse?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I'd really like to know what he was wearing.
No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Well, I can look it up Curse, curse, curse, curse,
okay, in 1992.
So remember, he was found in1991.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Rainer Henn, who was head of the forensic team.
Remember we talked about howcool it would have been to be
him.
Oh, no, remember, we talkedabout how cool it would have
been to be him.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
He died in a horrific car crash on his way to give a
lecture about the findings ofOatsy.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
OK, so not so cool to be him, no.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Poor guy.
And again, like I said, Rainerwas the first person to actually
put his bare hands on the bodywhile placing him in the body
bag.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
He has bare hands.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
He had the bare hands .
Maybe he had gloves on, I don'tknow.
Placing him in the body bag, hehas bare hands.
He had the bare hands, nothuman hands.
He had gloves on, I don't know.
But Claws Like this is yourworst nightmare touching bones,
all right.
So on a scale of one throughfive, on a curse factor,
starting with just that.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Coincidence.
Okay, you can't have a cursewith just one.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
All right, I'll give you a coincidence on this one,
on that one.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Perfect.
Next was the mountaineer guide,kurt Fritz, obviously well
experienced because he's theguide.
He died in a freak avalanche.
He was the only one in thegroup to be struck from falling
rocks, and in an area very, verywell known for him.
And Kurt was the mountain guidewho led Hen to the body and was
(29:22):
also one of the first to helpuncover the body.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Okay, so we're moving definitely from coincidental to
this is weird, but I'm notconvinced yet.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Okay, so next we have another Rainer, but it's Rainer
Holtzell, I believe, is how yousay it, and this was just a few
months after.
I love that first name.
Rainer I really like it.
It's very cool.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, rain for short yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I like it a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
I'm here for it.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
If you're having kids soon, name them Rainer Girl or
boy.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Or Zach, you can name them Zach as well, or, kara,
prove to us how big fans you are.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Wait, just Zach or Zachary.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Oh, zachary, or is it Zacharia if it's a female?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Zacharia.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Wait, zacharia, is that cute, Zacharia?
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Oh, you know what there's the character in Rose
Red Zakiya.
Why do I kind of like Zacharia?
Because you kind of like me Allright.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Well, anyway, kurt, poor Kurt.
He died of a brain tumorshortly after elites releasing
an hour long documentary of theexcavation.
He was the only man grantedaccess to film the removal of
the body.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Kind of seems like, whoever the Iceman was, he does
not like his story being told,or people are telling it wrong
and he's like smite you then.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, or like we kind of said, maybe it was a
purposeful burial and it wassupposed to be like a religious
burial.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Oh yeah, OK.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
You know what I mean, Like it's not supposed to be
disrupted.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
And now you like, yeah, just straight up,
desecrated his grave.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Right, like kind of like a.
You know, you always hear, likewe like again.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
That's why I added the curse of the mummy.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
It's literally the name of a movie and it's usually
like egyptian, but like itcould be in other cultures fair,
fair enough all right minutes.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
We had one of those in 2004, helmut simon missing.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
After eight days of intense searching, his body was
found not far from where Otziwas found.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I was going to say it had to be on the mountain right
.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
His crumpled body.
That's what they said.
Crumpled body was found in asmall stream, having fallen some
300 feet from a treacherousledge after a freak blizzard
passed through.
And if you didn't remember,helmut and his helmut and his
wife were the ones that foundotzi in the first place yeah,
(31:46):
they.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Nobody should have ever messed with this.
I don't know why I'm gettinglike vibes from courage the
cowardly dog.
Return the slab.
Return the ice man okay.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
So I know you, like og listeners, will know that
zach a long ass time ago took apiece from the traverse city of
same asylum and then had he wascursed for a while I have not
found the best way to return ityet you still haven't returned
that I think that curse hascompletely gone away.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Well, what I was going to say?
I completely gone away.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Well, what I was going to say, I thought you got
rid of it.
What I was going to say is thatwhen we were at Eloise, we were
packing up our bags and hekicked like a piece of like,
something fell like, or like wekicked it.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
It was like a piece of concrete from the ceiling, or
plaster, and he picked it up.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
I think it was a piece of like metal, but he
anyway it doesn't matter up, Ithink it's a piece of like metal
, but he anyway it doesn'tmatter.
He picked it up and I said, putthat right down.
You are not taking that home.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
I was just like it was around my pile of stuff.
I wanted to see if it was mineor not, but no, I learned my
lesson the first time okay,crazy enough.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
dieter warncheck, I believe died of a heart attack
at helmetsmut's funeral At hisfucking funeral.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Okay, who is Dieter again?
Is that his wife?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
No, no that was what the fuck was her name?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Oh, who's Dieter, though?
Would you let me finish?
Oh well, get on with it then.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
He was the head of the mountain rescue team sent to
look for Helmut when he wentmissing.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Oh, they should never have touched this man.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Oh my God.
So can you imagine he wentlooking for this man, found that
he was dead, went to hisfuneral out of just like you
know.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I'm sure just being a nice, kind soul, and then had a
heart attack and died at thefuneral.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
OK, I have some thoughts going, but let's go.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
No, tell me, what are they?
Speaker 1 (33:36):
well, are there more deaths?
Because what if?
What if the ice man wasn'tburied there, nor did he just
die there?
What if he was cursed, maybe,and he died on that mountain?
And now everyone who touchedhim, like okay, got his curse?
Speaker 2 (33:52):
so archeological, archeological archeological
archeologist.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Just move past it and say the next words conrad
spindler died of complicationsfrom multiple sclerosis.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Sclerosis, jesus christ.
He was one of the firstscientists to examine the mummy.
He also publicly scoffed at thecurse, declaring, and I will
quote it is all a media hype.
The next thing you will besaying, I will be next.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Oh no, don't, don't test it, man he did, he's dead
right I already told you that.
Oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
But he died of complications of his multiple
sclerosis, which he shouldn'thave died from.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
I think you got cursed with a brain tumor and
that's why you can't say allyour words.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Don't say that that's so awful.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Okay, you got cursed with a temporary brain aneurysm.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
I really hate that you said that, because I've been
thinking I have a brain tumor.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
You do not have a brain tumor.
If you do, we're naming itIceman.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
I hate you.
Now I'm really not schedulingthat doctor's appointment.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
It's better to know.
But you don't have a tumor.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
It would be a lot harder than or you'd have a lot
more issues than just sayingwords.
Girl, Zachary is so mean to meyou guys.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Oh, you'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
If I have a brain tumor, I hope I die and I'm
gonna haunt you way more thananybody else does.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I'd be down for that.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
You wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Will you at least scratch my back at like once a
month?
Speaker 2 (35:30):
You think you have it bad now.
Oh, baby, all right, are youready for the next?
Speaker 1 (35:36):
I'm ready for the next.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Tom Loy was diagnosed with a rare hereditary blood
condition.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
I would have died if you said brain tumor.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Somebody already died of a brain tumor or no?
They didn't Hard to say, wouldit?
No, yeah, no, hasn't been abrain tumor yet.
He died just prior tocompleting a book about O, and
he also didn't believe in thecurse and insisted that it was
all pure wild superstition.
(36:06):
Loy was the moleculararchaeologist who had discovered
four different types of bloodon both the Iceman's clothing
and his weapons.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Oh, I see he was a fighter.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
But isn't that weird that he then died of a blood
condition?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
That is a little bit weird.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Okay, so now I'm going to ask you do you believe
this is a coincidence or a curse?
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Oh, it's definitely a coincidence.
No, I'm kidding, okay.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
So I was going to gonna say do you think it's
generational, cast cursed orearned curse?
But you are kind of thinking.
Well, here.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Here's the question I was going to ask you, because
this might help help us pare itdown do you think these people
are being cursed simply becausethey found him in a retelling
his story, or do you thinkthey're being cursed because
they are like a couple of themhave kind of challenged the
curse or challenged things abouthim?
So is it just the presence ofbeing around him or is it like
(37:08):
not respecting him?
Because I don't think it'sgenerational.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
No, I don't think it's generational.
That doesn't make sense to me.
Think it's generational no, Idon't think it's generational.
That doesn't make sense to me.
But I don't think it's becauseof lack of respect, because
these are all people that arewell characteristically like
respectable jobs and like theseare their jobs to do these
things and they're, like youknow, researching about him and
trying to figure out his lifeand like writing about him and
doing documentaries and stuff.
So I don't think it's like lackof respect.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
So I almost feel like we need a fourth category then
yeah, I mean because I don'tfeel like they're earning them.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I don't think that I don't know.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I cast it on them.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
I think we need a fourth category of accidental
curses like they've stumbledinto a curse, I guess I would
fall under earned I was gonnasay I think it's earned curse,
whether it's like you just said,like I think it's earned curse,
whether it's like you just said, like I think it's like we're
disrupting Like a sacred body.
I don't know if I believe he wasattacked.
I think he might have Eitherjust accidentally died there or
(38:08):
he, like I said, the last Partwas that it was probable that
this was an actual burial, whichI kind of think makes sense,
and that's why his stuff wasplaced around him, like it was
like his little grave, you know.
So I kind of think that makessense and whether like the
earned curse, again we can gooff whatever we believe.
But it's stated that it's likebecause of practices of like the
(38:30):
occult or whatever.
So maybe it was a sacred burialand it was not to be disturbed
and now these people aredisturbing it.
I don't necessarily think it'sbecause they're being
disrespectful, I think maybeit's just because they just
disturbed the burial.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
It's interesting too, because I remember learning
about him in school, both likeliterally you know, grade school
, high school and college andit's kind of like one of those
things where you learn thehistory of, like you know, the
history of America, where as youget older you get the real
story more and more, but I'venever heard of all the people
dying around it.
It's just like, oh hey, it'sthe Iceman.
Um, have you ever seen themovie the Autopsy of Jane Doe?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
No, oh, I've heard of it, but no, okay, without
giving.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
I don't want to spoil it, don't, but I think if
you're you're struggling tofigure out what kind of curse
this might be, there might be anexplanation within that movie.
And if you guys haven't seen it, it it is one of the best
horror movies I've ever seen andjust being like really original
, um, it's good.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Okay, I can't say more than that because I don't
want to spoil it for you and Iknow I know you'll like this one
.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
It's not one of the usual ones where I'm like, have
you?
Seen this, and then you say noand you say I'm never gonna see
it.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
You need to see this yeah, I think that it is kind of
like an earned curse which,whatever way you want to take it
, how it was earned, whether itwas just because you fucked with
a body that was like restfully,you know, in peace, or, like
you said, was he already cursed,and then I guess I would think
that that would be an earnedcurse because you messed with a
(40:03):
cursed person.
But I don't know.
I just thought this, this wasso fascinating, like the whole
thing of just like finding himbeing 5 000 years old or more,
preserved so perfectly, and thenall of these people that
touched him or in some wayworked on him it kind of reminds
(40:26):
me of way, way, way back when,when we covered the hope diamond
well, where it was almost likethe chain of command of the hope
diamond.
Everyone who touched it were allaffected or yeah, um, james
dean's car, just like peopletouching the car, the tire, like
things like that.
But I don't know.
I found this one like crazy,like the hope, diamond was crazy
, but this is like I.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
I feel like the other two were a little bit more open
for speculation because theywere accidental deaths.
These are not accidental theseare crazy.
Yeah, no, this is probably oneof the best evidences of curse
that we've had.
I just want to know, I wonderif his was like a ritual killing
oh, maybe you know, maybe lessof like uh.
(41:10):
What was the word you used forthe type of burial like uh?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
sacred sacred.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
What if it was like the opposite?
Speaker 2 (41:16):
and that's why people are having the negative effects
now listen, like I said,there's so much research on him
where he came from differenttypes of things, so there
probably is stuff about, youknow, different speculations and
stuff like that, but I wastrying to not put so much in
there.
Yeah, but I just thought it wascool because it gave us a lot
of history.
A mummy I'd be loving me amummy and then a curse, hello
(41:40):
now I gotta do some research.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
So this is I.
I was, like I said it was, areally big anthro geek in
college until I realized I wouldhave to like physically touch
the bones myself.
But there was an ice woman too,wasn't there that, like, I
think ice man was found firstand then the woman I was getting
the stories confused, but Ithink she was found later.
That was like some sort ofmissing, like humans to
(42:02):
neanderthal, like some missinglink, but frozen too.
But that to me is always socrazy to think right Of, like
comparison to New Orleans, wherea body turns to dust in years.
Yep, this thing is perfectlypreserved for 5,000 years.
Just what you can learn from it.
(42:23):
I mean, I wouldn't want tolearn from this one.
No, thank you.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
But for most of them that aren't cursed, kind of like
thinking like am I gonna becursed?
I didn't touch it, I just,respectively, talked about you.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
I don't know who I can write a letter to I was just
gonna say you, you better writea letter somewhere.
Do some nowhere, nowheremeditation I know nowhere.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
said just talking about him cursed you, it was
just a touching.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
But oddly enough, speaking of our letter, robert,
oh no.
He'd be coming up in my life alot lately.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Robert the doll how.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Because I have that postcard or that picture of him
that we got at Payicon and Igrabbed a book the other day and
it fell out and it was just thefloor face up and I was like,
oh hey, robert, and then I justnicely put him back and then I
was scrolling on like instagramor something and he's popped up
multiple times and I haven'tspoke about him, so I don't know
(43:22):
why he would just keep poppingup.
So now I think that I need towrite another letter maybe we
need to go visit him I have somany places we need to visit I
do really want to visit robert,but I'm not gonna lie, I'm also
really that's a good one to havea healthy I don't want to say
scared I'm worried fair, becauseI'm not afraid of him, I'm just
(43:45):
I think as long as when you'rearound him, you're respectable
and you don't take the picturesyes, don't take pictures of
robert.
Follow the rules and you're bigotherwise you'll get ball
cancer, like colby did no thanks, I'm good all right.
Well, that is what I have for ustoday I, I love that.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
That got me kind of going in like my geeky history
way I know I loved it but thenyou know also a curse.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
So I know it was so fun.
It was like everything it was.
It was well done, well done Iwanted to do like another
haunted stuff, but I was like Ifelt like we've done some
hauntings lately.
We just encrypted, we didaliens and then this has been on
the top of my list and I waslike a curse.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
We haven't done like really like a curse like this in
a minute and still, just, Imean, the story of him alone is
I know, yeah, so oh, what?
You know what it's close tothat we still need to do.
What bog bodies?
Speaker 2 (44:38):
yes, we do, we do oh okay all right, more ideas
speaking of that, our ask fromyou guys is recommendations of
what you want to hear, becauseit would be so nice to just have
ideas of what you guys areinterested in and then we can do
the research for you and thentalk about it.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
And we always ask for write-ins, but not specifically
.
Here's one.
Here's a specific ask If youever think that you or a loved
one has been cursed, we want tohear about it.
Yes, send us your curse stories.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
I don't think there's a mummy emoji, is there?
Speaker 1 (45:18):
I think there's probably a mountain, okay.
You could do like a mountainand a man.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
So leave a mountain and a man, there's probably an
axe.
Whatever, leave a mountain,leave something and do us a
favor.
We haven't specifically askedin a while, but follow us on our
Instagram, our TikTok, ourYouTube, because we are trying
to branch out on differentlevels of social media and it
(45:44):
really helps us.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
You're going to get a lot more than what we had been
giving you.
That's part of our new socialmedia stuff we have going, so it
is a good time if you're notalready following it does help
us other than you guys justlistening and supporting us.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
That way it does really help us.
And we also do have a patreon,so we have a lot of cool stuff
going on there and it's going toget cooler as the year
progresses.
So follow us on there and youdon't have to pay.
We do have free, so you do getfree things.
So don't feel obligated, butfollow us on that as well.
Um, that's really all I havefor you guys.
I really love you andappreciate you and like my
(46:18):
question that Zachary failed.
I cannot believe this is ourlife.
I'm very excited.
I'm very grateful for all ofyou guys.
I know Zach is too.
I'm just giving him shit.
But, we have so much stuffcoming and it's just very, very
exciting and we thank youbecause we could not do it
without you guys.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Absolutely, and with that we're closing the shop.
So now you got to get out, youdon't have to go home, but you
can't stay here, you can't stayhere.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
So the most important thing you can do for us is to
creepy real yabels.
Goodbye, bye, goodbye bye.
You almost took my.
Why did I almost?
Speaker 1 (46:52):
say it.
Do you want to try it?
I?
Speaker 2 (46:53):
haven't, I haven't go next to it.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
No, do it, do it do it, creep it really, oddballs,
nope it doesn't feel right bye.
Thank you At the IA Shop, athome with the oddballs.
(47:20):
At the IA Shop, the door'salways open At the IA Shop.
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