April 24, 2025 • 58 mins
Unraveling the secrets of Sarah J. Maas's intricate fantasy world, we dive deep into "Crown of Midnight," the pivotal second installment of the Throne of Glass series. Our hosts explore how this book serves as the essential bridge that transforms what seemed like a straightforward assassin tale into an epic fantasy with far-reaching implications.
The conversation examines Celaena's complex journey as she secretly spares her targets while pretending to fulfill her duties as the king's champion. This moral struggle sets the stage for the shocking tragedy that our hosts identify as the true catalyst that reshapes everything. Was this sacrifice planned? The mysterious Chapter 25 suggests a sacrifice to spark something greater, a revelation that hit our hosts differently during their first and second readings.
Magic emerges as a central force in this installment, with Dorian's unexpected abilities, the introduction of the witches, and tantalizing glimpses of ancient powers. We debate the effectiveness of these elements, with some hosts celebrating the expanded world-building while others question certain storytelling choices. The romance receives mixed reviews too, with compelling arguments that Kael might be more in love with the heroic idea of saving Selina than with truly knowing her.
By the end of "Crown of Midnight," her world – and identity – have been completely upended. The final reveal positions the series to explode into something far grander than readers might have anticipated from the first book. Whether you're continuing the journey through Erilea or considering whether to pick up this series, our breakdown offers both critical analysis and passionate appreciation for how this middle chapter transforms the Throne of Glass series.
- ·Links from the News Segment and Show:
- Independent Bookstore Day this year is Saturday April 26th
- https://www.bookweb.org/independent-bookstore-day
- New Medusa retelling book
- Independent Bookstore Day this year is Saturday April 26th
Follow us:
Instagram - @ofswordsandsoulmates
Goodreads - http://www.goodreads.com/ofswordsandsoulmates
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ashley (00:00):
Views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the
participants.
The hosts make no claim to beliterary experts and their
opinions are exactly thatopinions.
All creative works discussed orreviewed are the intellectual
property of the creators of saidstories and is being used under
the Fair Use Doctrine.
Mari (00:31):
Hello and welcome to Of Swords and Soulmates, a podcast
where we read, watch and discussromanticist stories.
I'm one of your hosts, mari,and with me I have Kelly.
Kelly (00:35):
Hey everyone, it's Kelly.
We also have Ashley.
Ashley (00:39):
Hey guys, it's Ashley.
We also have Jonathan.
Jonathan (00:42):
What's good, everybody .
It's JP.
I'm losing my voice.
Mari (00:52):
I've been fighting that all day.
Yeah, we um as a group to tooka group field trip and went to
uh universal this past weekend,so we're all real tired we're
recovering.
Ashley (00:59):
I told somebody today I'm functioning at like 35 and
and to try me again tomorrow,yeah, yeah, that feels right.
Mari (01:07):
Yeah, so when we make mistakes today, please be nice
Be gentle.
So today we're going to bediscussing Crown of Midnight,
which is book two in the Throneof Glass series by Sarah J Maas.
But first we're going to dosome news Not a whole lot of
news, unlike last episode, wherewe had all the news.
(01:30):
We really just have two newstidbits.
The first one is thatIndependent Bookstore Day this
year is on Saturday, april 26th,so a few days after this
episode drops.
If you have IndependentBookstore near you you may want
to check them out and see ifthey have events going on.
Sometimes they'll do like salesor games or just little like
(01:52):
fun things to kind of help pushthe whole independent bookstore
thing.
Or you may want to make a tripand travel to one if you don't
have one close by.
I know that's something I waskind of thinking about doing.
Maybe visiting when we haveDifferent places do different
things, like I know San Diegodoes like a little a book crawl
thing.
(02:15):
The Houston, texas area doeslike at least last year they did
almost like a bingo card thingwhere you like had to get a
stamp at the different placesand then you got entered into a
raffle or something.
So I mean it's not like a hugething, but it's just it's a fun.
It's a fun gamifying version ofit.
I'm all down for anytime theygamify things.
It makes it just an added levelof fun.
Jonathan (02:32):
So like the odds that you have.
I mean, there are definitelysome openings on the map and I
just imagine they're lesspopulated areas, but it looks
like there's a lot.
Let me just zoom in.
Ashley (02:57):
There's nothing near us, which is interesting.
So there's our local Romanacybookstore.
Has authors coming on Saturday,nice.
So my sister was hoping thatmaybe we could trek out there.
When, when was remember when Isaid what are we doing saturday,
are you opposed?
to a bookshop and you were like,yeah, books great, yeah.
(03:19):
Oh, it's also like touch atruck day, so like the fire
trucks coming to like so thekids can come out and touch the
truck, kind of thing.
So we're going to do that inthe morning, cause our niece is
obsessed with civil workersright now, so like policemen,
firemen, um, and we want her tounderstand that that's something
that she can do one day if shewants to.
Yeah, it was super cute.
(03:41):
That's an issue, so we're goingto do that.
And then, remember, I saidtrucks and then books and you
were like, yeah, trucks andbooks.
Jonathan (03:46):
That's fine.
I didn't realize it was forSavannah.
I thought the trucks were forGoose.
But yeah, we're bumping intosome issues with her not being
able to interpret.
Ashley (03:57):
It was like can girls do this too?
Jonathan (03:58):
Yeah, it's like yeah, you can do whatever you.
Yeah, you can do whatever youcan do.
That I think she tried to throwher dad under the bus.
This is totally not true.
I mean, the story I'm going totell you is true, but it's not
true what she told me.
She was being a kid.
She said my daddy says thatonly daddies drive and I was
like.
I was in the passenger seat,ashley was driving.
Mari (04:30):
And I was like ma'am, I know, know your father, that
doesn't sound like something hewould say.
Ashley (04:32):
She was like, okay, you got me, she's funny.
Well, I'm glad you guys uh,that she's in, you guys are in
her life to set her right.
Yeah, no, we're, we're on that.
But then, yeah, we're gonna gosee some romancy authors
afterwards, hopefully okaysounds good, he didn't even know
.
Mari (04:42):
Just along for the ride.
Yeah, sounds good.
The only other news tidbit Ihave is that there is a new
Medusa story retelling comingout.
It's going to be called IMedusa like I comma space Medusa
, and it is by Ayanna Gray.
I've never read anything by herand I think this is her first
(05:06):
adult book.
She's a bestseller in some YAbooks, but this is her first
adult book.
It is going to be coming outNovember 18th, 2025.
And it seems interesting.
It's basically like the storyof the reimagining of the story
of Medusa before she becomeslike a Gorgon, so kind of early
(05:26):
Medusa storyline.
Jonathan (05:29):
It's interesting.
It does seem like maybe she'swritten a few other books in the
I'm assuming in the romanticitygenre, because I see, like some
of her other titles, beasts ofWar, beasts of Ruin, beasts of
Prey.
I'm assuming that Beasts is amovie.
Doesn't that mean yeah, I don'tknow if they're.
Mari (05:51):
Romanesie.
I know they're YA, but I don'tknow if they're Romanesie.
I've not read them, so I'm notsure what the storylines are.
Ashley (06:00):
It's a very pretty book.
Jonathan (06:03):
Oh, 100% yeah.
Ashley (06:04):
Sprayed edges, and all on this link.
It's like they know we'resuckers now I know I love a
Medusa retelling, though, soeven without the pretty edges,
I'm like that one's on my radar.
Mari (06:16):
I think I'll probably end up picking that one up, so we'll
see.
Ashley (06:23):
Anybody else have any news tidbits?
If I do, I don't remember.
I'm not going to lie to anybody.
I am not on my game today.
Mari (06:29):
No.
Kelly (06:29):
I think we mainly exhausted it last week.
Mari (06:32):
really, we did like all the news.
Ashley (06:34):
There was a lot to talk about on the last one.
Mari (06:38):
All right.
So, moving on to the book, whywe chose this book?
I mean, sarah J Moss is, youknow, one of the main names
people think of when they thinkof romancy, and this is her only
completed series, so it's goodone to read.
It's also one I like, so Ibrowbeat everyone I can.
Kelly (07:00):
I mean, there's the real reason.
Ashley (07:02):
Yeah, the truth comes out.
Is Crescent City not finished?
I thought it was.
Mari (07:07):
I don't believe.
So I don't know.
I haven't read the third one.
I assumed there was going to bemore, but I'm not sure.
You know what I may be speaking.
I may be wrong.
I'm on book two and I thoughtthat there was going to be more
Crescent City than just thethree, but that may be me just
assuming.
Ashley (07:24):
um, I I'm really not sure oh, jk, she confirmed that
there's a fourth book.
Mari (07:29):
Okay, according to ai, but don't quote me guys, because
I'm super lazy tonight no, allgood, I was looking it up and I
there's nothing that's onanything for any potential
pre-order or names or anythingwhich I I'm sure we would have
heard of something if there wasan actual release date for
another sarah j maas.
So yeah, I don't know whatshe's working on now, because it
seems like, depending on whatgroups and people you know you
(07:53):
end up associating with onInstagram or TikTok or whatever,
whatever you're interested inis what everyone's talking about
that she's writing next.
Ashley (07:59):
So maybe it's another Crescent City, maybe it's
another you know, the next inthe ACOTAR series, who knows?
Mari (08:10):
so the last book that she dropped was book three in
Crescent City yeah, so one wouldhope that she's gonna alternate
well, and I know that there waslike at some point she posted a
picture of herself like in thesnowy mountains, very
ACOTAR-esque, valaris-esqueright alerian mountains
situation.
So people were saying that shewas working on the next book.
(08:30):
But yeah, who knows?
Ashley (08:33):
who knows?
We'll know when we know to thebest, there are fewer far rumors
in between for her less thanrebecca yaros.
I feel yeah, so we'll see Allright.
Mari (08:45):
So this book was published August 27th of 2013.
I'm going to read the synopsisand then we can get into it.
Selina Sardothian won a brutalcontest to become the king's
champion, but she is far fromloyal to the crown, though she
goes to great lengths to hideher secret.
Her deadly charade becomes moredifficult when she realizes she
is not the only one seekingjustice.
(09:06):
Her search for answers ensnaresthose closest to her, and no
one is safe from suspicion Notthe crown, prince Dorian, not
Kael, the captain of the guard,not even her best friend,
nehemia, a princess with a rebelheart.
Then, one terrible night, thesecrets they have all been
keeping lead to an unspeakabletragedy.
As Selina's world shatters, shewill be forced to decide once
(09:29):
and for all where her trueloyalties lie and what she's
willing to fight for.
The second book in the numberone best-selling Throne of Glass
series returns readers to aland destroyed by liars, where
one woman's truth is the onlything that can save them all.
All right, spoiler warning.
Kelly (09:44):
Spoiler warning kelly well, from this point forward,
we will be having spoilers forthis book as well as book one.
Mari (09:51):
I'm sure if stuff comes from book one of throne of glass
, throne of glass and crown ofmidnight, we're going to talk
about those two books, I'm sure,interspersed yeah, and despite
her best efforts, marie mayspoil some of the other books I
will not that's game.
Jonathan (10:04):
I've been good, haven't I?
Yeah?
You've been good, you've beengood.
The only one, uh, the only onethat spoiled anything this week
so far was me and your dragontraining movies and I completely
forgot what it was anyway.
Mari (10:18):
So it's fine, I've noted it out of my head.
It it's all good.
Jonathan (10:22):
I'm back on solid ground.
Mari (10:23):
Yes, it's all good.
So what did we think of thebook?
Overall rating.
Ashley (10:30):
Me first.
Yeah, overall rating was like athree and a half.
This was not the mostaction-packed book and it felt
like a little bit of a fillerright Because you needed to
expand storylines.
You know what I mean.
Like we're starting to get intothe deeper roots of the
(10:52):
problems you know in this landand the people, while also
expanding individual storylines,because there's a lot that
happens.
This isn't just Selina, it isDorian he's got his own shit
going on and Kaol, who is goingthrough some stuff and finding
some stuff out, you know.
So I think there's still somuch left to explore and
(11:17):
discover.
King bad guy um and his deviousplots of tyranny, um.
But I really liked selena'sdevelopment because, I mean, you
got to remember they're just,they're basically kids, right?
like she's like 20 yeah, 18, 20,and not for nothing.
(11:40):
Sarah j mass was quite youngwhen this was published, so when
she wrote it she was evenyounger.
I thought it was very well.
It was a little slow in thebeginning.
I really liked, you know,dorian's development in his own
specific story.
I'm curious to see where thatleads off to with, you know him
being magical like I.
(12:01):
Yeah, I kind of seem to comeout of left field there.
Selena's selena's story seemsto really really, you know, sink
in here.
She acknowledges some thingsabout herself.
She avenges, you know, severalpeople in this book to an extent
while working through her ownshit.
(12:21):
So not the most amazing book,but I can see see the potential
leading up into the next few.
So it's a three and a half forme and the dog is alive.
Fleetfoot is safe.
Most important Most important Imean it was touch and go there
for a minute.
Mari (12:39):
Yeah.
Ashley (12:41):
You lose me when we lose the dog.
Yeah, yeah.
Mari (12:44):
Jonathan, what'd you think ?
Jonathan (12:46):
Oh, it was, uh it.
You know, I thought the book.
I lost track of how, how oldold she she is, like it feels
like she just kind of had like areally kind of shit go at
things and then, as thingsevolved in her own, in her own
life, overall I feel like we gota lot of transitional material
(13:14):
in this book.
There were some interestingpivots and changes to the
storyline, love interest shift,shift and some solidify Coming
into this book.
I wasn't quite sure where Istood, but leaving this book at
(13:35):
the end of book two, I wascurrently on Team KO and I'm
indifferent about the dog.
I feel like the dog is awarning system.
It's just if you have a dog ingeneral, it's a warning system
or last ditch supply of food.
You know what I mean.
You know a little bit ofbarbecue sauce kind of thing.
Mari (13:56):
I can feel, ashley, giving you the dagger stares from here
.
Jonathan (14:01):
She is, but for a totally different reason.
She wants me to hand her apuzzle piece and I'm just not
complying because I'm talkingand I need to keep my mind on my
mind focused, and so I'm notintentionally not handing her
this puzzle piece.
That's how easy easily I getdistracted.
Overall, I'm still going togive this book a five stars.
I like, I like I like theseries.
(14:24):
Gonna give this book, uh, fivestars, I like, I like I like the
series.
I want to know morespecifically about one, like I
want to know more about the, thewitches.
Ashley (14:35):
Okay, is that in book two?
Jonathan (14:37):
yeah, baba, yellow legs.
Oh, and the iron tooth.
You're lucky, ironoth, I forgotall about her.
Ashley (14:43):
as you can tell, that did not impact me at all.
Jonathan (14:46):
Yeah, she comes in to like it's weird because, like,
if she wanted to take out Dorian, why didn't she when she had
the chance and why did she leaveit for Selina to come by?
And then she leveraged Dorian,the knowledge of Dorian, against
Selina.
It's just, it's interesting tosee these things, these types of
(15:07):
things, kind of shake out.
It almost feels like like a notnot the comedic part of it, but
like the game, the board gameclue, or the movie clue, or it's
like, uh, you know, all thesepeople are being brought into
one space for one particularreason.
Yeah, who's the puppet master?
Even though I think we probablyunderstand who the puppet
(15:28):
master is throughout this book,but I don't know.
Anywho, I'm sure I've gone offthe rails a whole bunch there.
Kelly, what did you think?
Did you give it a?
Mari (15:36):
rating.
I'm sorry, you did, you gave itfive stars.
Kelly (15:37):
Oh yeah, yeah so yeah.
So Kelly, another author who'sbringing Baba Yaga into this,
and that really just kind ofdrowned my interest in the book.
(15:58):
What does Baba mean.
Mari (16:00):
I think Baba is grandmother, I believe.
Kelly (16:03):
It's just, baba Yaga is such an overused trope and I,
just when I see it get used, itjust immediately lessens my
interest in the story.
It's almost like a go-to tropefor authors nowadays, and even
back then it's just like, oh, wecan't think of what else to do.
Let me throw Baba Yaga in here.
Oh, I need some kind of evilwitchy person.
(16:27):
You know, blah, blah, blah,baba Yaga.
So I was very disappointed inthat.
I didn't think it fit intowhere the story had been so far.
It was a hard turn from whatlore had already been developed.
I enjoyed the characterdevelopments that went on.
I enjoyed seeing Selina's howshe made after the whole sort of
betrayal thing, how she made ahard choice.
(16:49):
That was interesting and howthings kind of shook out towards
the end.
But yeah, just the Baba Yagamoment, just really kind of just
like blah I was just blah onthat.
And then this magic fuckingdoorknob.
Jonathan (17:04):
Oh, that now decides to speak up.
Kelly (17:07):
You know now what's his name Mort or Mort, yeah, like
decides to speak up now, afterall the other shit had been
going on.
Now it decides to speak up.
You know, Elena had talked toSelena, but now is the time he
decides to speak up, so that wasjust kind of like Selena needed
a exposition mouthpiece anexplainer and that was what the
(17:30):
author used.
And don't get me wrong, it washumorous, but just I don't know
very forced.
Yeah, it just did not fit.
Like all of a sudden, thismagic doorknob starts talking
Like why, now, what changed?
And it's really because, ohbecause, I needed to explain
stuff to you.
I needed to explain stuff to thereader exposition dump yeah, so
(17:54):
I think that was a little lazyas well.
So in the end I gave this booka three and, as far as I'm
concerned, kale, chale, whatever, howale, whatever how you want
to pronounce it is a totaldouchebag and she should have
totally killed him.
Mari (18:08):
Multiple times.
Kelly (18:09):
Yes.
Mari (18:09):
Yeah.
So I've heard Baba only as itcomes in relation to Slavic
languages, like Baba Yaga, but Ilooked it up Apparently in
Arabic and in African languagesBaba means father, but in Slavic
languages Baba means like oldlady or grandmother.
So like you know, grandma Jones, grandma Smith, it would be
(18:31):
like Baba.
You know, whatever Baba Smith.
So for me I had like the exactopposite reaction of Kelly when
Baba Yellowlegs came into thepicture.
I got so excited because I lovethe Baba Yaga storyline, baba
Yaga trope, I just think it's aninteresting character, and so I
(18:53):
was very excited to have thatbe brought in.
That's all I'll say at thispoint In my reread.
This is my second time readingthe books and I will say that
the first time I read it I gaveit a five stars and the second
(19:13):
time I will also give it a fivestars.
For me, this is the point atwhich I was like, oh, I see how
and why there's all these booksnow and I see how and why so
many people enjoy this series.
This is the beginning of wherethe world starts to open up,
where it's a little bit morethan just Selina's world.
(19:33):
Yeah, we get a little bit oflike what you guys mentioned
what's going on with Dorian andmagic.
We get a little bit more ofwhat's going on in the world.
We get the rebellion, we getother you know potential, other
kinds of magic, other thingsgoing on and other characters
getting put into places.
I feel like this time readingthe book, it had more emotional
(19:56):
resonance for me.
It had more emotional resonancefor me than the first time I
read the books.
About midway through the book Ihad to take a little mini break
(20:16):
and go read some other things.
When the princess died, it wasreal rough.
And the chapter 33, where it'sjust the slave girl in the
Calcutta slave mine and hearingthat her only hope basically has
died Woof, that chapterdefinitely impacted me more the
(20:37):
second time through.
Yeah, overall five stars for me.
I very much enjoyed it.
I know Shock, so I know Shock,so Hold on.
Ashley (20:48):
Somebody's knocking at our door.
Jonathan (20:50):
Yeah, we don't have friends.
Ashley (20:51):
Uh-oh Thanks.
Jonathan (20:53):
We have a ring camera.
Ashley (20:55):
It's got a tablet.
Jonathan (20:56):
Yeah, we can't run.
They're trying to sell us stuff.
Ashley (20:59):
Sorry, continue, that was scary.
Jonathan (21:02):
When you don't expect it, not the you, that was scary.
When you don't expect a knock,the suspense the second time
somebody's been to the doortonight.
They're just trying to sell thelast one not Amazon, no,
they're trying to sell solarpower.
He's going to knock again 3, 2,1.
Yeah, let's go away.
Ashley (21:18):
That's aggressive knocking.
Jonathan (21:20):
That's okay.
Ashley (21:20):
He's trying to earn his money.
Jonathan (21:22):
I'm not mad at him Just if I go look.
That's okay, he's trying toearn his money.
I'm not mad at him Just if I golook at my aura ring.
I'm sure it's going to show anelevated heart rate.
Yeah, I wonder how long he hasto wait until he figures out
that I'm not coming.
He's hoping Okay, cool, we'regood, that was a close call.
(21:43):
I'm going to talk to someone.
Ashley (21:44):
We almost died you guys.
Jonathan (21:45):
Yeah, where were we?
Kelly was telling us all abouthow much he likes.
Oh sorry, I agree, mari.
Mari (21:58):
Okay, yeah.
Jonathan (22:00):
I see where Kelly is going with it too, where it's
like you know the same.
How many times can you use thesame characters or character
types?
Mari (22:28):
A whole bunch apparently spooky, bad guy kind of
character.
But you're not going to have,like, a mother character,
because that's not necessarilylike mothering, isn't
necessarily the vibe you'regoing for.
You're not going to have a maidcharacter because that's, you
know, youthful and innocent andwhatever You're going to go for
the crone character, which iswhat Baba Yaga is, it's the
crone archetype of a witch.
(22:49):
So, yeah, I like the way thewitches are described in this, I
like the, the idea of the ironnails and the iron teeth right
and that's freaky.
Jonathan (23:03):
Do they tuck them back like what's going on with that?
I'd like I need a visual youhave questions but I don't need.
Yeah, I got lots of questionsand I like the idea of like.
Mari (23:11):
Oh, you know, however, much long ago, there was this
epic battle between all thesedifferent kinds of witch
kingdoms, and you know the oneswho won didn't really win
because their land got cursed.
You know the Iron Teeth foughtthe Krokan dynasty and the
Krokan dynasty on their dyingyou know curse as their dying.
(23:32):
Curse basically said okay well,you have control of the land,
but so long as you have controlof the land, the land will be
barren.
Jonathan (23:39):
It's just good flavor.
That's the shit end of thestick.
Right, that's the shitty end ofthe stick.
You could have the garden, butit's not going to grow anywhere.
Mari (23:46):
Right, right, but I've salted the land, so to speak.
One thing that I realized thistime through that I did not
realize the first time readingit and you guys may have
realized it more, since youprobably read more closely than
I did so, chapter 25, where it'sthe queen and the princess.
(24:08):
Did you guys get who that was?
Jonathan (24:13):
um, I don't know, the chapter off the top of my head,
like, it's like super short,it's like five paragraphs.
Mari (24:22):
Um, give me one sec, I'm gonna read it to you.
Jonathan (24:25):
Um like I had.
I know I like reread sectionsover and over again, like when I
feel like I missed something solike I I know for a fact, like
I missed, like I didn't quiteunderstand where the hell more,
more or more, more, or I don'tknow, I didn't understand where.
Like it was just I was reading,I'm reading along, reading
(24:45):
along, reading along.
All of a sudden, bam, he'sthere yeah, well it's like what
kelly said.
Mari (24:49):
It's like okay, we've been in this location before.
Why didn't't Mort speak upbefore?
Jonathan (24:54):
Yeah, no, I agree, I was just and I was like so I was
like how to back up and be likewhat did I miss?
Mari (24:59):
So here's chapter 25.
One of them has to break.
The queen said to the princessOnly then can it begin.
I know the princess said softly, but the prince isn't ready.
It has to be her.
Then do you understand what I'masking of you?
The princess looked up towardthe shaft of moonlight spilling
into the tomb.
When she looked back at theancient queen, her eyes were
(25:24):
bright.
Yes, then do what needs to bedone.
The princess nodded and walkedout of the tomb.
She paused on the threshold,the darkness beyond beckoning to
her, and turned back to thequeen.
She won't understand, and whenshe she goes over the edge,
there'll be nothing to pull herback.
She will find her way back.
She always does.
Tears formed, but the princessblinked them away.
Ashley (25:41):
For all our sakes, I hope you're right so that one
definitely took me some time,but my guess is that it's
nahemia and um the queen, queenelaine yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jonathan (25:57):
So nahemia, like the whole martyr figure, she, she
knew she was, she knew she hadto die to forward the cause yeah
, yeah, I think, um, I think sheknew, like you, somebody's got
to go first to, to pull like to,to trigger deeper movement.
I do feel like we you know whatit is it's.
(26:19):
I feel like we, it's a um,who's that wolfy guy from, uh,
harry potter who checks out likehalf a sentence after he
arrives from prison?
Harry's goddaddy, serious, yeah, totally serious.
Ashley (26:35):
Sir, we are too tired for the dad joke.
Jonathan (26:38):
Yes, that's the one.
I fell into that one.
Ashley (26:41):
Apologize.
Jonathan (26:45):
Yeah, like serious, you have this spirit guide.
Yeah, exactly.
Something has to happen.
Something has to be listenedclosely, ashley, push your ear,
your your headphones closer toyour ear holes so that you can
hear this word I'm going to usefor you, right, something has to
be the catalyst.
Ashley (27:05):
I didn't get any points actually, oh, damn it oh did you
know, though, it was nahemiaand the queen talking in that
chapter.
Jonathan (27:15):
Well, that was marie's question oh, when they use
different perspectives, I neverknow what's going on until later
.
I'm like I'm an oblivioushusband ashley that doesn't make
any sense.
Mari (27:24):
You're the one that's trying to predict all the shit
before it ends yeah did youfigure it out, kelly, when you
read it yeah, I mean, I think itwas pretty obvious yeah, I
think I was just oblivious.
Ashley (27:35):
I mean that's fair.
I don't think I fully graspedthe um the girl in the cave like
the slave oh yeah I didn'tunderstand what was happening
there, or like how the newsspread to her if it wasn't
somebody that we already knew.
Does that make sense?
Like yeah, yeah that I can seewhy the scene is impactful, but
(28:00):
I didn't understand how we gotthere.
Jonathan (28:02):
That one felt a little strange yeah, I didn't
understand why she didn'tunderstand who was leaving the
word marks to protect her, likeshe kept just erasing them, and
she didn't know what they were.
Ashley (28:14):
Yeah, she knew they were word marks, but she didn't know
they were protection right andthen I didn't understand why.
Jonathan (28:22):
Initially, why things were so okay, like the opening,
that the portal was so easy forher, like if it was there was no
child child proof cap on thatwell, no, so there's no magic
magic is a thousand percentbanned, but she has it innately
uh, like love will find a way,kind of thing, magic, well, I
(28:44):
think, magic.
You can't hold magic back, right, it's gonna be like it's gonna
be.
You have to be very I imagineyou have to be very powerful.
I think it's why you would needall three, well, but that's
that's.
Ashley (28:55):
The point, though, is that they had exterminated the
magic users.
No one was supposed to havesurvived that, so no, she didn't
know she was capable of this,and it was so easy because she
was magical.
How do you think?
Jonathan (29:09):
like, how do you?
What makes you think that shehas no idea of her past?
Because she would dream rightand she would have these moments
where it felt like she knew.
Mari (29:25):
I think she knew her past, she does.
Ashley (29:28):
She doesn't outright say so in book two.
Mari (29:31):
It's a little bit of an unreliable narrator thing.
She knows what she knows, butwe don't know what she knows
correct.
Jonathan (29:38):
Yeah, it comes to light in book three yeah, but I
mean also like when she goesinto the portal and she reveals
so like this is the other thingit's revealed, for it wasn't a
choice yeah, that's what I wasgonna say.
Like it, I to me.
I was like what's happeninghere and is it her?
So I don't know what.
Is this her true form?
(29:58):
Is this her adjacent form?
Is this other form?
Ashley (30:01):
That's why you have to keep reading.
Mari (30:04):
Kelly saw that coming, didn't you, Kelly?
Kelly (30:06):
Yes.
Mari (30:08):
Yeah, we were listening to the book on the drive home at
that part.
And as soon as it happened,kelly's like, of course, yeah,
the book on the drive home, um,at that part.
And as soon as it happened,kelly's like, of course, yeah, I
, I didn't see it coming firsttime.
I read it, but like a lot oftimes I don't.
So I'm not the best indicatorfor that.
I'm not trying to figure it allout so I wasn't surprised.
Ashley (30:28):
I assumed that there had to be something more.
But what it?
What it ended up being wasn'tnecessarily a surprise, but I
don't know that I necessarilysaw it coming.
But again to jonathan's point,it's a catalyst, right?
Mari (30:41):
yeah, something you've been suppressing for, you know,
over a decade, is now coming tothe front with extreme emotions,
which was the point I thinkalso it was a red herring,
because it happened and I'm likethere's all these chapters left
in the book, okay, we keepreading, and then the very end,
(31:02):
at the very last chapter, I'mlike wait, what?
I really did not see thatcoming.
Yeah, I was like we've alreadyhad our big reveal.
What is this?
Right, it's getting twodesserts.
There's more Got two kinks yeah.
Is this a fancy cheese platterafter the dessert?
Jonathan (31:25):
How did you feel about I'm going to mess his name up?
Ashley (31:29):
Dorian.
Jonathan (31:29):
No.
Ashley (31:30):
Kale.
Jonathan (31:31):
No Dart.
Ashley (31:32):
Archer, mort Archer.
Jonathan (31:34):
That's Archer, we got it yeah, I didn't see that
coming I, I thought it was veryinteresting that she didn't want
to let nahimia down throughoutthe entire book and uh, and she
like kind of hid.
She did a very good job ofhiding the fact that she wasn't
like murking all these peopleand just really giving them like
(31:56):
second chances, which then saysto me like she knows
something's up.
You know why does?
Why does the king want thesepeople dead?
Why does he want them deaded ina specific?
Mari (32:05):
yeah, I think it says more about how little she trusted
the king.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know thatshe cared so much about the
people.
Jonathan (32:11):
She just didn't assume that just because the king
wanted this person dead meansthat they deserve to die yeah,
and archer presented the firstuh real, the first real
challenge to her because of his,because of his popularity.
Like she couldn't just take,like uh, she wasn't traveling to
a semi-distant place, shedidn't have the opportunity to
(32:34):
find some sort of cadaver tobring back in his place.
Archer was going to berecognized.
Mari (32:41):
I think it's partially that, but I think it's also
partially that she knew him.
you know he wasn't a stranger toher yes you know, I mean, I
think there's something to besaid about yeah, she's an
assassin, yeah, that's her job,that's her training, that's her
background.
But like that's also someoneshe knew and you know apparently
(33:06):
hadn't killed them before.
You know, I mean, it's not likehe ran away from her when he
saw her.
You know she hadn't tried tokill him before or anything.
So yeah, I think that there'sthat says something about that
too, that she parts of her lifeare intersecting yeah, and how
does?
Jonathan (33:23):
how does she go from like I love you, kail, to I
can't believe you.
Let her die, let me kill you,kael.
Mari (33:31):
Oh, I thought that part had really good emotional
resonance for me, like theturnaround, the betrayal she
felt.
Yeah, there were feels Likewhen she just got all visceral
and like clawed the crap out ofKael's face in that moment.
Woof, I thought that was verywell done.
Jonathan (33:50):
And then the internal struggle.
The internal struggle, whateverthe whatever's going on between
Dorian and his and his daddy,like that's been present since
chapter one, book one, a hundredpercent, and it's just it's
interesting that he has thisemotional outburst and through
him floods.
This piece of magic, yeah.
Mari (34:14):
What do we think about speaking of magic, the fantasy
world building aspect?
What would you give it?
Ashley (34:18):
Ash, I think it was more interesting for me to see the
plot twist with Dorian suddenlyhaving magic.
I'm curious to see how thatdevelops and I'm assuming it has
to do with, you know, geneticsand her hereditary whatever.
I think that's what made itsuper cool, because we
(34:39):
understood that something wasgoing on with Selena.
We didn't know to what extent,but we knew that she was magical
of some kind.
Right To find out that Dorianwas also magical and now has to
keep it from his father, I feltwas an entirely dramatic
storyline.
So I was interested in themagic for that.
(35:02):
I thought Selina's magic wasstandard to you know what we
understand Fade to be in otherbooks.
It was pretty telltale.
I don't think we know enough.
I think the word marks areinteresting.
I think some of the riddles areinteresting.
I'm not really sure Iunderstood the whole monster in
the basement part, except to saythat the king's doing some
(35:24):
nefarious stuff.
I don't know.
It was like a three and a halffor me.
It wasn't anything out thereout of this world, brand new,
but it was interesting enough tokeep me reading.
You know, to want to read thenext book.
Mari (35:37):
Jonathan, what'd you think ?
Jonathan (35:38):
You know, I like the world building.
I like the idea that there areother magical creatures that,
like some, that are permitted tolive.
Permitted to live.
There's no way that BabaYellowlegs is hanging out in
that space without the kingknowing that witches exist,
right.
I also think that he's allowingthem to be to take up residence
(36:03):
without because they're aweapon.
They have to be a weapon forhim in some way.
I feel like he's got like maybethe king was born without and
then took power and magic justgives off weird vibes to me,
where it's just like it's alwaysseeking some way to balance,
(36:25):
whether it's a quote unquoteprice that you have to pay to
use it, or if I've stolen itthen it will be gifted to
someone else, like somebody thatwill help balance that.
Mari (36:37):
Like a balancing force.
Jonathan (36:38):
yeah, yeah, and I feel like that's kind of what's
happening too between father andson.
I want this kid, I want mykingdom to be like this.
I'm going to take, take, takeand shape my kingdom and control
everything, and magic's justgoing to chuck you the bird and
be like you.
Can we give you the illusion ofcontrol?
And that's the greatest magictrick there is the idea that I
(37:01):
have a basement in my house, nomatter how big my house is, and
I don't know that it's therewould be ridiculous to me.
So I feel like the king knowswhat's there.
I feel like anything you takefrom that space is the king left
behind with deep intention.
And I also feel like that, themonster that they encounter,
(37:22):
where, where dorian begins tohelp and say I think I feel like
that's a maybe, that's acreation of the king, what was?
It was like the ritterack.
Yeah, was that summoned or wasthat?
something that was summoned,okay, so I feel like maybe
there's some you were.
If you're a prisoner of theking um and you're once very
(37:44):
human, very mortal, and the kingum exhausted you and use, use
you up and turned you intosomething else, I don't know, I
don't have any of this verified.
Mari (37:56):
What would you give it?
Jonathan (37:57):
I'm going to give it a four.
Mari (37:58):
Okay.
What about you, Kelly.
Kelly (38:01):
I think it was interesting how they built on it
from the first book.
So there was some stuff that itgot expanded upon, but then
some of it didn't seem to makesense.
Expanded upon, but then some ofit didn't seem to make sense,
particularly with the word marksit seemed there was the rules
varied from person to person,place to place, so it wasn't
consistent like I thought itshould be.
But it was an interestingdeparture.
(38:24):
I think the thing that probablypissed me off the most about the
magic and stuff was not onlydid we insert Baba Yaga into
here, we also cribbed part ofthe plot from one of the Conan
movies where Conan is fightingthe wizard who's in all the
mirrors and Conan just figuresout he just has to smash the
(38:46):
mirrors.
Like that was straight up fromConan, like straight, straight
up.
That is exactly how that fightwent down, with Conan and the
wizard with the mirrors.
So that was a littlefrustrating.
So overall I thought thefantasy was.
I think it felt like it was notas good as it was in the first
(39:07):
book because some of theexplanations didn't seem to jive
up and again the mysteriousmouth that just decides to talk
now for no reason.
So I actually gave it a threeokay for me the fantasy world
building.
Mari (39:23):
It's probably a four and a half, because I do feel like it
expanded on a lot of things andbrought more things in, like I
understand it's book two in aseries, so it's setting up a lot
of things.
I like some of the distinctionsit tried to make between like
magic and old magic Tried to youknow why is some magic working
(39:44):
and others isn't?
Why do some entities have magicstill available and others
don't?
The Mort thing is weird.
I remember even the first timeI read it I was like what is
this?
I think Queen Elena coming backand coming into play again
(40:04):
brings some of the faded stuffand ghosts and stuff back into
it.
I think the whole deeplabyrinth thing under the castle
and you know whatever monstersor whatever are there, what's
behind those doors, etc.
It's interesting, I think, theconcept of people being and
(40:28):
please forgive me, I don'tremember if this is in book one
or book two, I think it's inthis book that that the idea of
like if you were some kind of afey creature who could transform
between animal and human andthat's just part of your
existence and then you get stuckin one of those just because
that's you know, whenever magicwent away, that's what you
happen to be in that moment.
The idea of being stuck is likeI don't know, a, a rabbit or
(40:49):
something for like your wholerest of your fae existence.
There's something kind ofhorrifying about that and kind
of interesting like thoughtexperiment about that.
Yeah, so I enjoyed it.
I enjoyed that this.
I felt like this book startedto lay down some political
intrigue and like laying thepawns out on the board.
(41:11):
You know the matriarch of theiron teeth or whatever, and then
the king, and then you have theidea of magic.
You know, you have the idea ofrebel forces.
I feel like a lot of likethings are being brought out to
the board and I always, like youknow big, epic, fantasy type
stories that have like politicalintrigue, where it's not just
(41:32):
like oh, we were the most badassarmy, so we win.
You know, I always like it whenthere's like things more than
just brute strength that comeinto play.
So yeah, I very much enjoyedthis.
What do we feel about theromance?
Ashley (41:45):
I did not love the romance.
I mean, I get it.
Girl's got to get her stuffright.
The guy's hot.
She's been in slave hell forthe last year.
She needed some relaxation butit was only like two weeks worth
, poor thing.
I know she had herself a manfor two weeks.
(42:09):
It was interesting to see herturn on him so quickly, although
I think I understand why and Ithink you know some of that also
speaks to her.
Faye, you know responses.
Um, there was just nocontrolling that.
But that's how.
That's how you know he wasn'tfor her right, like that was
(42:29):
never going to be the happilyever after.
Yeah, it seemed we didn't haveany of it in book one so you
needed to have a little bit ofit in book two.
It was nice to see her happyfor a little bit, but it was
very short-lived and it makesyou feel bad.
The ending was really, reallysad.
He feels as though you knowhe's doing this grand gesture,
you know sending her away andsaving her.
(42:50):
And, bro, you should havetalked to her.
Yeah, this wasn't this reallybad communication.
They're dumb.
I did not love the room it was.
It was a three it.
It wasn't the worst, it wasn'tforced.
You saw something growing, youknow, in that love triangle
space for a while, so somethinghad to happen.
It was just basic for me, theromance, it was the three yeah,
(43:14):
jonathan I agree, it's basic.
Jonathan (43:16):
There wasn't, uh, there wasn't a whole lot um
going for me, except to say thatI'm currently on team kaol.
So with me deciding to be onteam kaol, and some of that's
because I think I think dorian'sjust kind of like this isn't
there's, there's too much,there's too much difference
between us, it's not gonna workout kind of thing.
(43:37):
Not like, not like I want, Ilike pink and you like red.
More like whatever opposite ofpink would be, I don't know, but
more like there's no way myfather would ever allow this.
This would just neverlogistically or, you know,
socially or politically work outfor us.
So it would just be a fling.
It might be spice later, Idon't know.
(43:58):
I think dorian's out.
I'm gonna at least give it a3.5 okay, what you think kelly.
Kelly (44:05):
I'm so tired of the romance triangle bullshit so I
just I don't.
I just didn't find the romancevery appealing.
I'm tired of seeing the ooh, doI pick Dorian?
Ooh, do I pick Kale?
Mari (44:16):
Ooh do I pick Dorian?
Kelly (44:17):
Ooh, do I pick Kale?
Like the romance didn't doanything for me, I didn't think
it was that great, so I gave ita two.
Mari (44:23):
Yeah, I will say, the first time I read this book I'm
just kind of at the same place Iwas with the first book.
I'm just like, if there'sromance supposed to be actually
really like real, true romancehappening in here, I am not
feeling it.
(44:43):
It's going under my head or overmy head or under the radar one
or the other, but I'm gettingnone of it or the other but I'm
getting none of it.
So I did find it interesting inthis read-through that I feel
that Kaol was genuinely in lovewith the idea that he had of
Selenia, who he thought Seleniawas, who he thought Selenia
(45:04):
would be for him.
He never truly knew her, but Ithink he was in love with the
idea of her this whole going offsomewhere, having kids, living
this provincial life situation.
I think he was truly in lovewith the idea of it, but I don't
(45:29):
think he ever truly knew Selena.
I agree, I think they nevertalked.
I think if I had to pick arunning gag on the whole, throne
of Glass is, everyoneunderestimates Selena at all
times and, yeah, if they wouldjust talk, things would be
different.
I think that there's probably athree for romance for me, and I
(45:54):
say that mainly because theidea of a tragic romance, so
that little bubble of happinessthat had to happen momentarily
for Selena and Kale in order forthe true tragedy of the
betrayal to like hit so hard.
And then also, if you look atit back like we defined it
(46:15):
before, romance with, like thewhole friend romance, the idea
of, uh, nahemia and selena justbeing these bosom buddies, and
then you know the last wordsthey say to each other, being in
anger, and then she's gone, andthen you get like these, I
don't know, it seemed like therewere three or four chapters
(46:36):
after she died where it was likethis multiple keep doing impact
over and over that SJM did oflike hey, did you know?
Nahemia's dead, by the way,nahemia's dead, and it affects
this, and it affects this and itaffects this, and Selena having
this mantra in her head of someof the last things that Nahimi
(46:56):
ever said to her was you know,you're a coward, and how that
guides her actions.
So, yeah, I think it was aromantic in the terms of like a
romantic tragedy, not in likeromance.
Happily, ever after situation,situation.
What do we think of the spice?
Ashley (47:17):
I mean I'm glad she got some.
I hope it was good for her.
Yeah, but she doesn't know anybetter either.
You know what?
I mean like he was her first.
So uh, kudos to you, girl.
I'm glad you got, especially inthe broom closet at work.
You broke that man's meetingand he had to bail to go to the
(47:40):
broom closet.
So I mean you get a two forthat.
But like she was quick to turnon him without question, right,
like he betrayed her trust andit got her friend killed and bam
, you're out.
Yeah, no that was like.
Kelly (47:56):
It was like a two there's .
Ashley (47:57):
There's not much to say about it it just wasn't the main
focus of the book like you saidit was.
It was a.
The theme of this book iscatalysts right like something
to spark, you know, the movementof something else in a powerful
way.
Yeah, it's a two because it wasthere, right, but like it
(48:19):
wasn't too detailed, it wasn'toverly romantic, it wasn't
overly spicy, it was borderlineforced in the story, not like
upon each other for clarity, I'dsay only a two.
Mari (48:35):
What did you think, Jonathan?
Jonathan (48:37):
Yeah, I agree a two.
I didn't think it was.
There was nothing that made meget super stoked on it, just may
be, I don't know.
Yeah, nothing crazy, that's all.
Yeah, just may be yeah.
Kelly (48:55):
Nothing crazy that's all.
Mari (48:56):
Just a two Kelly.
What'd you think?
Kelly (48:57):
I think the spice was basically non-existent, so I
gave it a one.
Mari (49:04):
Yeah, I'm like right there with you guys.
I basically gave it a two,because I think I gave it a one
last time because there was nospice and I guess technically
there was.
Like the little gossiping aboutthe broom closet situation was
kind of cute.
So, yeah, I gave that a twooverall for spice situation.
Yeah it was just there yeah,yeah, exactly do we think.
(49:27):
Is it a kissing book?
Why?
Ashley (49:31):
am I always surprised when this question?
Do we think is it a kissingbook?
Why am I always surprised whenthis question comes up Every
time you can go?
Mari (49:39):
last.
You don't have to go first ifyou don't want to.
You went first for everythingelse.
Is this a?
Ashley (49:42):
kiss.
I think this is a kissing book,but for different reasons.
I think this is a kissing bookLike.
This is a kissing book for Kale.
This is for her, you know, forSelena.
This is a kissing book forSelena, for Nahemia, If that
makes sense.
Mari (50:00):
Yeah.
Ashley (50:01):
Dorian.
This is a kissing book forhimself and his magic Um.
I think, arguably, if Kalehadn't felt what he thought was
intense love for Selena, youknow, the story would just be
over in this book, right?
He would have let her die.
He wouldn't have protected her.
(50:21):
I think, if you know Nehemiahadn't meant anything for Selena
, you know she would have justcontinued on her merry way as is
.
She would have just continuedon her merry way as is.
So I think it's a kissing book,but for different reasons, not
for a traditional like fatedmates or happily ever after.
I think it's kissing because itforces the story to go on.
Mari (50:45):
Yeah.
Ashley (50:46):
Especially for her as the main character.
Otherwise, she just would havebounced right, yeah, and left
them.
Just would have bounced Right,yeah, and left them all to their
doom.
So I'm going to say yes, butnot for the reasons that we
usually think.
Husband.
Jonathan (51:02):
I didn't think it was a kissing book.
Ashley (51:05):
Interesting.
Jonathan (51:07):
I'll keep waiting for the next one.
Mari (51:09):
Okay, I gotta say it the next one, okay.
Kelly (51:14):
I gotta say it is not a kissing book, because Kale
doesn't love her.
Mari (51:19):
He betrayed her.
That's not love.
Kelly (51:22):
If there's any love whatsoever in this book, it's
now that Selina is going to bedoing things out of remorse and
love for Nahemia.
Ashley (51:33):
That makes it a kissing book that doesn't make does it,
it's not.
Kelly (51:35):
Is it romantic love though?
Mari (51:38):
I don't know.
It depends on how you decide todefine it.
Kelly (51:40):
Yeah, I mean, really, if we're going to talk about the
real romance in this book, Imean kale and dorian just need
to go ahead and fuck.
Ashley (51:48):
I mean I mean I.
I think, though, that Kalefeels like he sacrificed
Selina's happiness for his ownby sending her off at the end,
he thinks he's protecting her.
He thinks he's sending hersomewhere safe, somewhere to be,
you know, with people, if nother family to an extent, then to
(52:08):
people who are familiar withher legacy.
Kelly (52:11):
But he didn't realize that until after he made that
decision Right.
He didn't know that he wassending her there.
He didn't put two and twotogether until after she was on
the boat.
Ashley (52:24):
Oh, I guess that's true, so he wasn't doing it, yeah.
Kelly (52:27):
He was just a.
He's just an asshole.
Ashley (52:29):
He was just getting her out of town.
Well, I mean he was just anasshole.
He was just getting her out oftown.
Well, I mean he was stillgetting her out of a town to
keep her safe, like that was hisentire he had to, like he had
to manage that process.
He knew he couldn't talk theking into it.
He had to make a deal with hisdad to get her out of there.
He had to pull a ticket.
I don't know yeah.
Mari (52:45):
I think, I think it goes back to what we said, that they
need to talk, and I think thatKale is in love with the idea of
Selina, the idea of thischivalry, this idea of this
person that he can take care of,I was going to say, the idea of
being a hero.
Yeah, yes, yes, the idea of hisown grandeur.
Ashley (53:03):
Okay, then I take it back.
It's not a kissing book.
Yeah, he's more in love withthe idea of love than he is with
actually in love with the girl.
Kelly (53:14):
Right, that's fair.
Right, I reverse my answer.
You're right.
It's like, um, despite how muchwe may dislike neil gaiman, now
, one of the lines from one ofhis sandman books was, you know,
one of the sandman's, likeassistants or whatever, telling
him you know?
No, sir, I think you were farmore in love with the idea of
the girl and the love than youever actually were in love.
Mari (53:31):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's exactly it for Carol.
I think he was in love with theidea of this fantasy that he
had set up in his mind.
But, all that being said, Ithink I would say that, yes,
it's a kissing book, because Ithink that even the idea of love
it affected the action, theplot.
I think that even the idea oflove it affected the action, the
(53:52):
plot.
So I think that if Selina hadbeen anybody else who attacked
the captain of the guard, shewould have been thrown down in
the dungeons and that would havebeen it.
She would have been forgottenabout, she would have not gotten
out and gotten back into herown little private rooms with a
bath and a servant.
I don't think that would havehappened to anybody, but this
(54:12):
person that he had what hethought was love for, and also
the whole.
You know Selina's love forNehemia guiding her actions.
Whether that's retribution,whether that's shame, whatever,
but I think it's tied to thefriendship, love aspect of it.
So for me I would say thisone's a kissing book.
The first one was not by ourdefinition, like by my
(54:33):
definition of a kissing bookanyways.
So anything else anybody wantsto say about it before we wrap
it up, I'm very excited for bookthree on this one.
Kelly (54:43):
Me too, and the world expansion.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
My interest in these books ispretty low now.
Um, I think it's mostly becauseI have other things on my to
read list that I would ratherread.
Ashley (55:02):
So I mean, I think arguably the second book of a
long series like this is neveranything really to write home
about.
It's got there.
There has to be a steppingstone, you know, at some point
it yeah it would be extreme forevery book to just be, you know,
(55:22):
balls to the walls.
I feel like the middle booksare three is book three, in your
um opinion, better like, moreexciting, like more happening,
more people, more adventures,more love.
Mari (55:37):
Here's my problem I read these books so fast that I have
a hard time trying to rememberwhat happens in what book.
I was talking to Kelly earlierBefore we reread the first book.
I could have sworn that thefirst book ended with, like the
scene where she is shown to be afairy.
I thought that's where thefirst book ended.
(55:57):
So I was like, wait, I wasrereading the first book, I'm
like there's not enough chaptersleft for what I think is going
to happen.
So I'm not a good yeah, I'm nota good judge of that.
I can tell you that there'smore that is going to happen.
Yes, but I don't rememberspecifically if it's in book
three or not.
Ashley (56:14):
To be honest, Book three has definitely started out a
little bit slow.
For me, without any spoilers,it started out slow but I think
we're finally starting to get tosome realness between her and
this new character.
Again, that catalyst, catalyst,right, something important
needed to happen for them tofigure out, you know, mutual
(56:34):
ground and bond or something.
So I'm excited to see thisstory develop from there.
But I am listening to theaudiobook, so that's taking some
time.
Cool, I can't listen to it at4x speed like my husband.
Mari (56:45):
Yeah, no, no way all right , anything else before I wrap it
up that's all I got.
Ashley (56:52):
You got anything husband ?
Jonathan (56:53):
No, that's all I have Kelly, you good.
Yeah.
Mari (56:56):
All right.
So thanks for listening to OfSwords and Soulmates.
Before we go, make sure tocheck the show notes, rate,
review and subscribe to us onyour podcast app of choice.
It helps others to find us.
Follow us on Instagram at OfSwords and Soulmates.
Check us out on our website ofswords and soulmatescom, or on
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If you'd like to offer asuggestion for a future episode
(57:17):
or just give us your opinion.
Reach out to us on any of thoseoptions or email us If you want
to read along with us as weprep for a new episode.
Follow us on Goodreads atofords and Soulmates book club,
and we also have a Tome accountsame nickname Of Swords and
Soulmates.
Before we announce what allwe're going to get into for the
(57:38):
next episode, I wanted to read areview that someone left us on
Spotify.
It was a while ago.
I'm not great at pulling upthese reviews and I apologize.
The username was just anonymousso I don't know who left it,
but they said that they love theliterature, news and lively
debate.
Exclamation point.
Ashley (57:55):
So very nice Anytime pal .
Mari (57:58):
Yes.
Ashley (57:59):
That's what we're here for, absolutely.
Mari (58:01):
All right.
So, last but not least, we hopeyou'll join us in two weeks
when we have our next episode.
We are not going to be readingsomething for next episode,
we're going to be having aspecial guest interview, and you
will find out who that is byfollowing us on social media.
Pay attention for the surprise.
Bye, bye.
(58:24):
Thank you for watching.
Views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the
participants.
The hosts make no claim to beliterary experts and their
opinions are exactly thatopinions.
All creative works discussed orreviewed are the intellectual
property of the creators of saidstories and is being used under
the Fair Use Doctrine.
Mari (00:31):
Hello and welcome to Of Swords and Soulmates, a podcast
where we read, watch and discussromanticist stories.
I'm one of your hosts, mari,and with me I have Kelly.
Kelly (00:35):
Hey everyone, it's Kelly.
We also have Ashley.
Ashley (00:39):
Hey guys, it's Ashley.
We also have Jonathan.
Jonathan (00:42):
What's good, everybody .
It's JP.
I'm losing my voice.
Mari (00:52):
I've been fighting that all day.
Yeah, we um as a group to tooka group field trip and went to
uh universal this past weekend,so we're all real tired we're
recovering.
Ashley (00:59):
I told somebody today I'm functioning at like 35 and
and to try me again tomorrow,yeah, yeah, that feels right.
Mari (01:07):
Yeah, so when we make mistakes today, please be nice
Be gentle.
So today we're going to bediscussing Crown of Midnight,
which is book two in the Throneof Glass series by Sarah J Maas.
But first we're going to dosome news Not a whole lot of
news, unlike last episode, wherewe had all the news.
(01:30):
We really just have two newstidbits.
The first one is thatIndependent Bookstore Day this
year is on Saturday, april 26th,so a few days after this
episode drops.
If you have IndependentBookstore near you you may want
to check them out and see ifthey have events going on.
Sometimes they'll do like salesor games or just little like
(01:52):
fun things to kind of help pushthe whole independent bookstore
thing.
Or you may want to make a tripand travel to one if you don't
have one close by.
I know that's something I waskind of thinking about doing.
Maybe visiting when we haveDifferent places do different
things, like I know San Diegodoes like a little a book crawl
thing.
(02:15):
The Houston, texas area doeslike at least last year they did
almost like a bingo card thingwhere you like had to get a
stamp at the different placesand then you got entered into a
raffle or something.
So I mean it's not like a hugething, but it's just it's a fun.
It's a fun gamifying version ofit.
I'm all down for anytime theygamify things.
It makes it just an added levelof fun.
Jonathan (02:32):
So like the odds that you have.
I mean, there are definitelysome openings on the map and I
just imagine they're lesspopulated areas, but it looks
like there's a lot.
Let me just zoom in.
Ashley (02:57):
There's nothing near us, which is interesting.
So there's our local Romanacybookstore.
Has authors coming on Saturday,nice.
So my sister was hoping thatmaybe we could trek out there.
When, when was remember when Isaid what are we doing saturday,
are you opposed?
to a bookshop and you were like,yeah, books great, yeah.
(03:19):
Oh, it's also like touch atruck day, so like the fire
trucks coming to like so thekids can come out and touch the
truck, kind of thing.
So we're going to do that inthe morning, cause our niece is
obsessed with civil workersright now, so like policemen,
firemen, um, and we want her tounderstand that that's something
that she can do one day if shewants to.
Yeah, it was super cute.
(03:41):
That's an issue, so we're goingto do that.
And then, remember, I saidtrucks and then books and you
were like, yeah, trucks andbooks.
Jonathan (03:46):
That's fine.
I didn't realize it was forSavannah.
I thought the trucks were forGoose.
But yeah, we're bumping intosome issues with her not being
able to interpret.
Ashley (03:57):
It was like can girls do this too?
Jonathan (03:58):
Yeah, it's like yeah, you can do whatever you.
Yeah, you can do whatever youcan do.
That I think she tried to throwher dad under the bus.
This is totally not true.
I mean, the story I'm going totell you is true, but it's not
true what she told me.
She was being a kid.
She said my daddy says thatonly daddies drive and I was
like.
I was in the passenger seat,ashley was driving.
Mari (04:30):
And I was like ma'am, I know, know your father, that
doesn't sound like something hewould say.
Ashley (04:32):
She was like, okay, you got me, she's funny.
Well, I'm glad you guys uh,that she's in, you guys are in
her life to set her right.
Yeah, no, we're, we're on that.
But then, yeah, we're gonna gosee some romancy authors
afterwards, hopefully okaysounds good, he didn't even know
.
Mari (04:42):
Just along for the ride.
Yeah, sounds good.
The only other news tidbit Ihave is that there is a new
Medusa story retelling comingout.
It's going to be called IMedusa like I comma space Medusa
, and it is by Ayanna Gray.
I've never read anything by herand I think this is her first
(05:06):
adult book.
She's a bestseller in some YAbooks, but this is her first
adult book.
It is going to be coming outNovember 18th, 2025.
And it seems interesting.
It's basically like the storyof the reimagining of the story
of Medusa before she becomeslike a Gorgon, so kind of early
(05:26):
Medusa storyline.
Jonathan (05:29):
It's interesting.
It does seem like maybe she'swritten a few other books in the
I'm assuming in the romanticitygenre, because I see, like some
of her other titles, beasts ofWar, beasts of Ruin, beasts of
Prey.
I'm assuming that Beasts is amovie.
Doesn't that mean yeah, I don'tknow if they're.
Mari (05:51):
Romanesie.
I know they're YA, but I don'tknow if they're Romanesie.
I've not read them, so I'm notsure what the storylines are.
Ashley (06:00):
It's a very pretty book.
Jonathan (06:03):
Oh, 100% yeah.
Ashley (06:04):
Sprayed edges, and all on this link.
It's like they know we'resuckers now I know I love a
Medusa retelling, though, soeven without the pretty edges,
I'm like that one's on my radar.
Mari (06:16):
I think I'll probably end up picking that one up, so we'll
see.
Ashley (06:23):
Anybody else have any news tidbits?
If I do, I don't remember.
I'm not going to lie to anybody.
I am not on my game today.
Mari (06:29):
No.
Kelly (06:29):
I think we mainly exhausted it last week.
Mari (06:32):
really, we did like all the news.
Ashley (06:34):
There was a lot to talk about on the last one.
Mari (06:38):
All right.
So, moving on to the book, whywe chose this book?
I mean, sarah J Moss is, youknow, one of the main names
people think of when they thinkof romancy, and this is her only
completed series, so it's goodone to read.
It's also one I like, so Ibrowbeat everyone I can.
Kelly (07:00):
I mean, there's the real reason.
Ashley (07:02):
Yeah, the truth comes out.
Is Crescent City not finished?
I thought it was.
Mari (07:07):
I don't believe.
So I don't know.
I haven't read the third one.
I assumed there was going to bemore, but I'm not sure.
You know what I may be speaking.
I may be wrong.
I'm on book two and I thoughtthat there was going to be more
Crescent City than just thethree, but that may be me just
assuming.
Ashley (07:24):
um, I I'm really not sure oh, jk, she confirmed that
there's a fourth book.
Mari (07:29):
Okay, according to ai, but don't quote me guys, because
I'm super lazy tonight no, allgood, I was looking it up and I
there's nothing that's onanything for any potential
pre-order or names or anythingwhich I I'm sure we would have
heard of something if there wasan actual release date for
another sarah j maas.
So yeah, I don't know whatshe's working on now, because it
seems like, depending on whatgroups and people you know you
(07:53):
end up associating with onInstagram or TikTok or whatever,
whatever you're interested inis what everyone's talking about
that she's writing next.
Ashley (07:59):
So maybe it's another Crescent City, maybe it's
another you know, the next inthe ACOTAR series, who knows?
Mari (08:10):
so the last book that she dropped was book three in
Crescent City yeah, so one wouldhope that she's gonna alternate
well, and I know that there waslike at some point she posted a
picture of herself like in thesnowy mountains, very
ACOTAR-esque, valaris-esqueright alerian mountains
situation.
So people were saying that shewas working on the next book.
(08:30):
But yeah, who knows?
Ashley (08:33):
who knows?
We'll know when we know to thebest, there are fewer far rumors
in between for her less thanrebecca yaros.
I feel yeah, so we'll see Allright.
Mari (08:45):
So this book was published August 27th of 2013.
I'm going to read the synopsisand then we can get into it.
Selina Sardothian won a brutalcontest to become the king's
champion, but she is far fromloyal to the crown, though she
goes to great lengths to hideher secret.
Her deadly charade becomes moredifficult when she realizes she
is not the only one seekingjustice.
(09:06):
Her search for answers ensnaresthose closest to her, and no
one is safe from suspicion Notthe crown, prince Dorian, not
Kael, the captain of the guard,not even her best friend,
nehemia, a princess with a rebelheart.
Then, one terrible night, thesecrets they have all been
keeping lead to an unspeakabletragedy.
As Selina's world shatters, shewill be forced to decide once
(09:29):
and for all where her trueloyalties lie and what she's
willing to fight for.
The second book in the numberone best-selling Throne of Glass
series returns readers to aland destroyed by liars, where
one woman's truth is the onlything that can save them all.
All right, spoiler warning.
Kelly (09:44):
Spoiler warning kelly well, from this point forward,
we will be having spoilers forthis book as well as book one.
Mari (09:51):
I'm sure if stuff comes from book one of throne of glass
, throne of glass and crown ofmidnight, we're going to talk
about those two books, I'm sure,interspersed yeah, and despite
her best efforts, marie mayspoil some of the other books I
will not that's game.
Jonathan (10:04):
I've been good, haven't I?
Yeah?
You've been good, you've beengood.
The only one, uh, the only onethat spoiled anything this week
so far was me and your dragontraining movies and I completely
forgot what it was anyway.
Mari (10:18):
So it's fine, I've noted it out of my head.
It it's all good.
Jonathan (10:22):
I'm back on solid ground.
Mari (10:23):
Yes, it's all good.
So what did we think of thebook?
Overall rating.
Ashley (10:30):
Me first.
Yeah, overall rating was like athree and a half.
This was not the mostaction-packed book and it felt
like a little bit of a fillerright Because you needed to
expand storylines.
You know what I mean.
Like we're starting to get intothe deeper roots of the
(10:52):
problems you know in this landand the people, while also
expanding individual storylines,because there's a lot that
happens.
This isn't just Selina, it isDorian he's got his own shit
going on and Kaol, who is goingthrough some stuff and finding
some stuff out, you know.
So I think there's still somuch left to explore and
(11:17):
discover.
King bad guy um and his deviousplots of tyranny, um.
But I really liked selena'sdevelopment because, I mean, you
got to remember they're just,they're basically kids, right?
like she's like 20 yeah, 18, 20,and not for nothing.
(11:40):
Sarah j mass was quite youngwhen this was published, so when
she wrote it she was evenyounger.
I thought it was very well.
It was a little slow in thebeginning.
I really liked, you know,dorian's development in his own
specific story.
I'm curious to see where thatleads off to with, you know him
being magical like I.
(12:01):
Yeah, I kind of seem to comeout of left field there.
Selena's selena's story seemsto really really, you know, sink
in here.
She acknowledges some thingsabout herself.
She avenges, you know, severalpeople in this book to an extent
while working through her ownshit.
(12:21):
So not the most amazing book,but I can see see the potential
leading up into the next few.
So it's a three and a half forme and the dog is alive.
Fleetfoot is safe.
Most important Most important Imean it was touch and go there
for a minute.
Mari (12:39):
Yeah.
Ashley (12:41):
You lose me when we lose the dog.
Yeah, yeah.
Mari (12:44):
Jonathan, what'd you think ?
Jonathan (12:46):
Oh, it was, uh it.
You know, I thought the book.
I lost track of how, how oldold she she is, like it feels
like she just kind of had like areally kind of shit go at
things and then, as thingsevolved in her own, in her own
life, overall I feel like we gota lot of transitional material
(13:14):
in this book.
There were some interestingpivots and changes to the
storyline, love interest shift,shift and some solidify Coming
into this book.
I wasn't quite sure where Istood, but leaving this book at
(13:35):
the end of book two, I wascurrently on Team KO and I'm
indifferent about the dog.
I feel like the dog is awarning system.
It's just if you have a dog ingeneral, it's a warning system
or last ditch supply of food.
You know what I mean.
You know a little bit ofbarbecue sauce kind of thing.
Mari (13:56):
I can feel, ashley, giving you the dagger stares from here
.
Jonathan (14:01):
She is, but for a totally different reason.
She wants me to hand her apuzzle piece and I'm just not
complying because I'm talkingand I need to keep my mind on my
mind focused, and so I'm notintentionally not handing her
this puzzle piece.
That's how easy easily I getdistracted.
Overall, I'm still going togive this book a five stars.
I like, I like I like theseries.
(14:24):
Gonna give this book, uh, fivestars, I like, I like I like the
series.
I want to know morespecifically about one, like I
want to know more about the, thewitches.
Ashley (14:35):
Okay, is that in book two?
Jonathan (14:37):
yeah, baba, yellow legs.
Oh, and the iron tooth.
You're lucky, ironoth, I forgotall about her.
Ashley (14:43):
as you can tell, that did not impact me at all.
Jonathan (14:46):
Yeah, she comes in to like it's weird because, like,
if she wanted to take out Dorian, why didn't she when she had
the chance and why did she leaveit for Selina to come by?
And then she leveraged Dorian,the knowledge of Dorian, against
Selina.
It's just, it's interesting tosee these things, these types of
(15:07):
things, kind of shake out.
It almost feels like like a notnot the comedic part of it, but
like the game, the board gameclue, or the movie clue, or it's
like, uh, you know, all thesepeople are being brought into
one space for one particularreason.
Yeah, who's the puppet master?
Even though I think we probablyunderstand who the puppet
(15:28):
master is throughout this book,but I don't know.
Anywho, I'm sure I've gone offthe rails a whole bunch there.
Kelly, what did you think?
Did you give it a?
Mari (15:36):
rating.
I'm sorry, you did, you gave itfive stars.
Kelly (15:37):
Oh yeah, yeah so yeah.
So Kelly, another author who'sbringing Baba Yaga into this,
and that really just kind ofdrowned my interest in the book.
(15:58):
What does Baba mean.
Mari (16:00):
I think Baba is grandmother, I believe.
Kelly (16:03):
It's just, baba Yaga is such an overused trope and I,
just when I see it get used, itjust immediately lessens my
interest in the story.
It's almost like a go-to tropefor authors nowadays, and even
back then it's just like, oh, wecan't think of what else to do.
Let me throw Baba Yaga in here.
Oh, I need some kind of evilwitchy person.
(16:27):
You know, blah, blah, blah,baba Yaga.
So I was very disappointed inthat.
I didn't think it fit intowhere the story had been so far.
It was a hard turn from whatlore had already been developed.
I enjoyed the characterdevelopments that went on.
I enjoyed seeing Selina's howshe made after the whole sort of
betrayal thing, how she made ahard choice.
(16:49):
That was interesting and howthings kind of shook out towards
the end.
But yeah, just the Baba Yagamoment, just really kind of just
like blah I was just blah onthat.
And then this magic fuckingdoorknob.
Jonathan (17:04):
Oh, that now decides to speak up.
Kelly (17:07):
You know now what's his name Mort or Mort, yeah, like
decides to speak up now, afterall the other shit had been
going on.
Now it decides to speak up.
You know, Elena had talked toSelena, but now is the time he
decides to speak up, so that wasjust kind of like Selena needed
a exposition mouthpiece anexplainer and that was what the
(17:30):
author used.
And don't get me wrong, it washumorous, but just I don't know
very forced.
Yeah, it just did not fit.
Like all of a sudden, thismagic doorknob starts talking
Like why, now, what changed?
And it's really because, ohbecause, I needed to explain
stuff to you.
I needed to explain stuff to thereader exposition dump yeah, so
(17:54):
I think that was a little lazyas well.
So in the end I gave this booka three and, as far as I'm
concerned, kale, chale, whatever, howale, whatever how you want
to pronounce it is a totaldouchebag and she should have
totally killed him.
Mari (18:08):
Multiple times.
Kelly (18:09):
Yes.
Mari (18:09):
Yeah.
So I've heard Baba only as itcomes in relation to Slavic
languages, like Baba Yaga, but Ilooked it up Apparently in
Arabic and in African languagesBaba means father, but in Slavic
languages Baba means like oldlady or grandmother.
So like you know, grandma Jones, grandma Smith, it would be
(18:31):
like Baba.
You know, whatever Baba Smith.
So for me I had like the exactopposite reaction of Kelly when
Baba Yellowlegs came into thepicture.
I got so excited because I lovethe Baba Yaga storyline, baba
Yaga trope, I just think it's aninteresting character, and so I
(18:53):
was very excited to have thatbe brought in.
That's all I'll say at thispoint In my reread.
This is my second time readingthe books and I will say that
the first time I read it I gaveit a five stars and the second
(19:13):
time I will also give it a fivestars.
For me, this is the point atwhich I was like, oh, I see how
and why there's all these booksnow and I see how and why so
many people enjoy this series.
This is the beginning of wherethe world starts to open up,
where it's a little bit morethan just Selina's world.
(19:33):
Yeah, we get a little bit oflike what you guys mentioned
what's going on with Dorian andmagic.
We get a little bit more ofwhat's going on in the world.
We get the rebellion, we getother you know potential, other
kinds of magic, other thingsgoing on and other characters
getting put into places.
I feel like this time readingthe book, it had more emotional
(19:56):
resonance for me.
It had more emotional resonancefor me than the first time I
read the books.
About midway through the book Ihad to take a little mini break
(20:16):
and go read some other things.
When the princess died, it wasreal rough.
And the chapter 33, where it'sjust the slave girl in the
Calcutta slave mine and hearingthat her only hope basically has
died Woof, that chapterdefinitely impacted me more the
(20:37):
second time through.
Yeah, overall five stars for me.
I very much enjoyed it.
I know Shock, so I know Shock,so Hold on.
Ashley (20:48):
Somebody's knocking at our door.
Jonathan (20:50):
Yeah, we don't have friends.
Ashley (20:51):
Uh-oh Thanks.
Jonathan (20:53):
We have a ring camera.
Ashley (20:55):
It's got a tablet.
Jonathan (20:56):
Yeah, we can't run.
They're trying to sell us stuff.
Ashley (20:59):
Sorry, continue, that was scary.
Jonathan (21:02):
When you don't expect it, not the you, that was scary.
When you don't expect a knock,the suspense the second time
somebody's been to the doortonight.
They're just trying to sell thelast one not Amazon, no,
they're trying to sell solarpower.
He's going to knock again 3, 2,1.
Yeah, let's go away.
Ashley (21:18):
That's aggressive knocking.
Jonathan (21:20):
That's okay.
Ashley (21:20):
He's trying to earn his money.
Jonathan (21:22):
I'm not mad at him Just if I go look.
That's okay, he's trying toearn his money.
I'm not mad at him Just if I golook at my aura ring.
I'm sure it's going to show anelevated heart rate.
Yeah, I wonder how long he hasto wait until he figures out
that I'm not coming.
He's hoping Okay, cool, we'regood, that was a close call.
(21:43):
I'm going to talk to someone.
Ashley (21:44):
We almost died you guys.
Jonathan (21:45):
Yeah, where were we?
Kelly was telling us all abouthow much he likes.
Oh sorry, I agree, mari.
Mari (21:58):
Okay, yeah.
Jonathan (22:00):
I see where Kelly is going with it too, where it's
like you know the same.
How many times can you use thesame characters or character
types?
Mari (22:28):
A whole bunch apparently spooky, bad guy kind of
character.
But you're not going to have,like, a mother character,
because that's not necessarilylike mothering, isn't
necessarily the vibe you'regoing for.
You're not going to have a maidcharacter because that's, you
know, youthful and innocent andwhatever You're going to go for
the crone character, which iswhat Baba Yaga is, it's the
crone archetype of a witch.
(22:49):
So, yeah, I like the way thewitches are described in this, I
like the, the idea of the ironnails and the iron teeth right
and that's freaky.
Jonathan (23:03):
Do they tuck them back like what's going on with that?
I'd like I need a visual youhave questions but I don't need.
Yeah, I got lots of questionsand I like the idea of like.
Mari (23:11):
Oh, you know, however, much long ago, there was this
epic battle between all thesedifferent kinds of witch
kingdoms, and you know the oneswho won didn't really win
because their land got cursed.
You know the Iron Teeth foughtthe Krokan dynasty and the
Krokan dynasty on their dyingyou know curse as their dying.
(23:32):
Curse basically said okay well,you have control of the land,
but so long as you have controlof the land, the land will be
barren.
Jonathan (23:39):
It's just good flavor.
That's the shit end of thestick.
Right, that's the shitty end ofthe stick.
You could have the garden, butit's not going to grow anywhere.
Mari (23:46):
Right, right, but I've salted the land, so to speak.
One thing that I realized thistime through that I did not
realize the first time readingit and you guys may have
realized it more, since youprobably read more closely than
I did so, chapter 25, where it'sthe queen and the princess.
(24:08):
Did you guys get who that was?
Jonathan (24:13):
um, I don't know, the chapter off the top of my head,
like, it's like super short,it's like five paragraphs.
Mari (24:22):
Um, give me one sec, I'm gonna read it to you.
Jonathan (24:25):
Um like I had.
I know I like reread sectionsover and over again, like when I
feel like I missed something solike I I know for a fact, like
I missed, like I didn't quiteunderstand where the hell more,
more or more, more, or I don'tknow, I didn't understand where.
Like it was just I was reading,I'm reading along, reading
(24:45):
along, reading along.
All of a sudden, bam, he'sthere yeah, well it's like what
kelly said.
Mari (24:49):
It's like okay, we've been in this location before.
Why didn't't Mort speak upbefore?
Jonathan (24:54):
Yeah, no, I agree, I was just and I was like so I was
like how to back up and be likewhat did I miss?
Mari (24:59):
So here's chapter 25.
One of them has to break.
The queen said to the princessOnly then can it begin.
I know the princess said softly, but the prince isn't ready.
It has to be her.
Then do you understand what I'masking of you?
The princess looked up towardthe shaft of moonlight spilling
into the tomb.
When she looked back at theancient queen, her eyes were
(25:24):
bright.
Yes, then do what needs to bedone.
The princess nodded and walkedout of the tomb.
She paused on the threshold,the darkness beyond beckoning to
her, and turned back to thequeen.
She won't understand, and whenshe she goes over the edge,
there'll be nothing to pull herback.
She will find her way back.
She always does.
Tears formed, but the princessblinked them away.
Ashley (25:41):
For all our sakes, I hope you're right so that one
definitely took me some time,but my guess is that it's
nahemia and um the queen, queenelaine yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jonathan (25:57):
So nahemia, like the whole martyr figure, she, she
knew she was, she knew she hadto die to forward the cause yeah
, yeah, I think, um, I think sheknew, like you, somebody's got
to go first to, to pull like to,to trigger deeper movement.
I do feel like we you know whatit is it's.
(26:19):
I feel like we, it's a um,who's that wolfy guy from, uh,
harry potter who checks out likehalf a sentence after he
arrives from prison?
Harry's goddaddy, serious, yeah, totally serious.
Ashley (26:35):
Sir, we are too tired for the dad joke.
Jonathan (26:38):
Yes, that's the one.
I fell into that one.
Ashley (26:41):
Apologize.
Jonathan (26:45):
Yeah, like serious, you have this spirit guide.
Yeah, exactly.
Something has to happen.
Something has to be listenedclosely, ashley, push your ear,
your your headphones closer toyour ear holes so that you can
hear this word I'm going to usefor you, right, something has to
be the catalyst.
Ashley (27:05):
I didn't get any points actually, oh, damn it oh did you
know, though, it was nahemiaand the queen talking in that
chapter.
Jonathan (27:15):
Well, that was marie's question oh, when they use
different perspectives, I neverknow what's going on until later
.
I'm like I'm an oblivioushusband ashley that doesn't make
any sense.
Mari (27:24):
You're the one that's trying to predict all the shit
before it ends yeah did youfigure it out, kelly, when you
read it yeah, I mean, I think itwas pretty obvious yeah, I
think I was just oblivious.
Ashley (27:35):
I mean that's fair.
I don't think I fully graspedthe um the girl in the cave like
the slave oh yeah I didn'tunderstand what was happening
there, or like how the newsspread to her if it wasn't
somebody that we already knew.
Does that make sense?
Like yeah, yeah that I can seewhy the scene is impactful, but
(28:00):
I didn't understand how we gotthere.
Jonathan (28:02):
That one felt a little strange yeah, I didn't
understand why she didn'tunderstand who was leaving the
word marks to protect her, likeshe kept just erasing them, and
she didn't know what they were.
Ashley (28:14):
Yeah, she knew they were word marks, but she didn't know
they were protection right andthen I didn't understand why.
Jonathan (28:22):
Initially, why things were so okay, like the opening,
that the portal was so easy forher, like if it was there was no
child child proof cap on thatwell, no, so there's no magic
magic is a thousand percentbanned, but she has it innately
uh, like love will find a way,kind of thing, magic, well, I
(28:44):
think, magic.
You can't hold magic back, right, it's gonna be like it's gonna
be.
You have to be very I imagineyou have to be very powerful.
I think it's why you would needall three, well, but that's
that's.
Ashley (28:55):
The point, though, is that they had exterminated the
magic users.
No one was supposed to havesurvived that, so no, she didn't
know she was capable of this,and it was so easy because she
was magical.
How do you think?
Jonathan (29:09):
like, how do you?
What makes you think that shehas no idea of her past?
Because she would dream rightand she would have these moments
where it felt like she knew.
Mari (29:25):
I think she knew her past, she does.
Ashley (29:28):
She doesn't outright say so in book two.
Mari (29:31):
It's a little bit of an unreliable narrator thing.
She knows what she knows, butwe don't know what she knows
correct.
Jonathan (29:38):
Yeah, it comes to light in book three yeah, but I
mean also like when she goesinto the portal and she reveals
so like this is the other thingit's revealed, for it wasn't a
choice yeah, that's what I wasgonna say.
Like it, I to me.
I was like what's happeninghere and is it her?
So I don't know what.
Is this her true form?
(29:58):
Is this her adjacent form?
Is this other form?
Ashley (30:01):
That's why you have to keep reading.
Mari (30:04):
Kelly saw that coming, didn't you, Kelly?
Kelly (30:06):
Yes.
Mari (30:08):
Yeah, we were listening to the book on the drive home at
that part.
And as soon as it happened,kelly's like, of course, yeah,
the book on the drive home, um,at that part.
And as soon as it happened,kelly's like, of course, yeah, I
, I didn't see it coming firsttime.
I read it, but like a lot oftimes I don't.
So I'm not the best indicatorfor that.
I'm not trying to figure it allout so I wasn't surprised.
Ashley (30:28):
I assumed that there had to be something more.
But what it?
What it ended up being wasn'tnecessarily a surprise, but I
don't know that I necessarilysaw it coming.
But again to jonathan's point,it's a catalyst, right?
Mari (30:41):
yeah, something you've been suppressing for, you know,
over a decade, is now coming tothe front with extreme emotions,
which was the point I thinkalso it was a red herring,
because it happened and I'm likethere's all these chapters left
in the book, okay, we keepreading, and then the very end,
(31:02):
at the very last chapter, I'mlike wait, what?
I really did not see thatcoming.
Yeah, I was like we've alreadyhad our big reveal.
What is this?
Right, it's getting twodesserts.
There's more Got two kinks yeah.
Is this a fancy cheese platterafter the dessert?
Jonathan (31:25):
How did you feel about I'm going to mess his name up?
Ashley (31:29):
Dorian.
Jonathan (31:29):
No.
Ashley (31:30):
Kale.
Jonathan (31:31):
No Dart.
Ashley (31:32):
Archer, mort Archer.
Jonathan (31:34):
That's Archer, we got it yeah, I didn't see that
coming I, I thought it was veryinteresting that she didn't want
to let nahimia down throughoutthe entire book and uh, and she
like kind of hid.
She did a very good job ofhiding the fact that she wasn't
like murking all these peopleand just really giving them like
(31:56):
second chances, which then saysto me like she knows
something's up.
You know why does?
Why does the king want thesepeople dead?
Why does he want them deaded ina specific?
Mari (32:05):
yeah, I think it says more about how little she trusted
the king.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know thatshe cared so much about the
people.
Jonathan (32:11):
She just didn't assume that just because the king
wanted this person dead meansthat they deserve to die yeah,
and archer presented the firstuh real, the first real
challenge to her because of his,because of his popularity.
Like she couldn't just take,like uh, she wasn't traveling to
a semi-distant place, shedidn't have the opportunity to
(32:34):
find some sort of cadaver tobring back in his place.
Archer was going to berecognized.
Mari (32:41):
I think it's partially that, but I think it's also
partially that she knew him.
you know he wasn't a stranger toher yes you know, I mean, I
think there's something to besaid about yeah, she's an
assassin, yeah, that's her job,that's her training, that's her
background.
But like that's also someoneshe knew and you know apparently
(33:06):
hadn't killed them before.
You know, I mean, it's not likehe ran away from her when he
saw her.
You know she hadn't tried tokill him before or anything.
So yeah, I think that there'sthat says something about that
too, that she parts of her lifeare intersecting yeah, and how
does?
Jonathan (33:23):
how does she go from like I love you, kail, to I
can't believe you.
Let her die, let me kill you,kael.
Mari (33:31):
Oh, I thought that part had really good emotional
resonance for me, like theturnaround, the betrayal she
felt.
Yeah, there were feels Likewhen she just got all visceral
and like clawed the crap out ofKael's face in that moment.
Woof, I thought that was verywell done.
Jonathan (33:50):
And then the internal struggle.
The internal struggle, whateverthe whatever's going on between
Dorian and his and his daddy,like that's been present since
chapter one, book one, a hundredpercent, and it's just it's
interesting that he has thisemotional outburst and through
him floods.
This piece of magic, yeah.
Mari (34:14):
What do we think about speaking of magic, the fantasy
world building aspect?
What would you give it?
Ashley (34:18):
Ash, I think it was more interesting for me to see the
plot twist with Dorian suddenlyhaving magic.
I'm curious to see how thatdevelops and I'm assuming it has
to do with, you know, geneticsand her hereditary whatever.
I think that's what made itsuper cool, because we
(34:39):
understood that something wasgoing on with Selena.
We didn't know to what extent,but we knew that she was magical
of some kind.
Right To find out that Dorianwas also magical and now has to
keep it from his father, I feltwas an entirely dramatic
storyline.
So I was interested in themagic for that.
(35:02):
I thought Selina's magic wasstandard to you know what we
understand Fade to be in otherbooks.
It was pretty telltale.
I don't think we know enough.
I think the word marks areinteresting.
I think some of the riddles areinteresting.
I'm not really sure Iunderstood the whole monster in
the basement part, except to saythat the king's doing some
(35:24):
nefarious stuff.
I don't know.
It was like a three and a halffor me.
It wasn't anything out thereout of this world, brand new,
but it was interesting enough tokeep me reading.
You know, to want to read thenext book.
Mari (35:37):
Jonathan, what'd you think ?
Jonathan (35:38):
You know, I like the world building.
I like the idea that there areother magical creatures that,
like some, that are permitted tolive.
Permitted to live.
There's no way that BabaYellowlegs is hanging out in
that space without the kingknowing that witches exist,
right.
I also think that he's allowingthem to be to take up residence
(36:03):
without because they're aweapon.
They have to be a weapon forhim in some way.
I feel like he's got like maybethe king was born without and
then took power and magic justgives off weird vibes to me,
where it's just like it's alwaysseeking some way to balance,
(36:25):
whether it's a quote unquoteprice that you have to pay to
use it, or if I've stolen itthen it will be gifted to
someone else, like somebody thatwill help balance that.
Mari (36:37):
Like a balancing force.
Jonathan (36:38):
yeah, yeah, and I feel like that's kind of what's
happening too between father andson.
I want this kid, I want mykingdom to be like this.
I'm going to take, take, takeand shape my kingdom and control
everything, and magic's justgoing to chuck you the bird and
be like you.
Can we give you the illusion ofcontrol?
And that's the greatest magictrick there is the idea that I
(37:01):
have a basement in my house, nomatter how big my house is, and
I don't know that it's therewould be ridiculous to me.
So I feel like the king knowswhat's there.
I feel like anything you takefrom that space is the king left
behind with deep intention.
And I also feel like that, themonster that they encounter,
(37:22):
where, where dorian begins tohelp and say I think I feel like
that's a maybe, that's acreation of the king, what was?
It was like the ritterack.
Yeah, was that summoned or wasthat?
something that was summoned,okay, so I feel like maybe
there's some you were.
If you're a prisoner of theking um and you're once very
(37:44):
human, very mortal, and the kingum exhausted you and use, use
you up and turned you intosomething else, I don't know, I
don't have any of this verified.
Mari (37:56):
What would you give it?
Jonathan (37:57):
I'm going to give it a four.
Mari (37:58):
Okay.
What about you, Kelly.
Kelly (38:01):
I think it was interesting how they built on it
from the first book.
So there was some stuff that itgot expanded upon, but then
some of it didn't seem to makesense.
Expanded upon, but then some ofit didn't seem to make sense,
particularly with the word marksit seemed there was the rules
varied from person to person,place to place, so it wasn't
consistent like I thought itshould be.
But it was an interestingdeparture.
(38:24):
I think the thing that probablypissed me off the most about the
magic and stuff was not onlydid we insert Baba Yaga into
here, we also cribbed part ofthe plot from one of the Conan
movies where Conan is fightingthe wizard who's in all the
mirrors and Conan just figuresout he just has to smash the
(38:46):
mirrors.
Like that was straight up fromConan, like straight, straight
up.
That is exactly how that fightwent down, with Conan and the
wizard with the mirrors.
So that was a littlefrustrating.
So overall I thought thefantasy was.
I think it felt like it was notas good as it was in the first
(39:07):
book because some of theexplanations didn't seem to jive
up and again the mysteriousmouth that just decides to talk
now for no reason.
So I actually gave it a threeokay for me the fantasy world
building.
Mari (39:23):
It's probably a four and a half, because I do feel like it
expanded on a lot of things andbrought more things in, like I
understand it's book two in aseries, so it's setting up a lot
of things.
I like some of the distinctionsit tried to make between like
magic and old magic Tried to youknow why is some magic working
(39:44):
and others isn't?
Why do some entities have magicstill available and others
don't?
The Mort thing is weird.
I remember even the first timeI read it I was like what is
this?
I think Queen Elena coming backand coming into play again
(40:04):
brings some of the faded stuffand ghosts and stuff back into
it.
I think the whole deeplabyrinth thing under the castle
and you know whatever monstersor whatever are there, what's
behind those doors, etc.
It's interesting, I think, theconcept of people being and
(40:28):
please forgive me, I don'tremember if this is in book one
or book two, I think it's inthis book that that the idea of
like if you were some kind of afey creature who could transform
between animal and human andthat's just part of your
existence and then you get stuckin one of those just because
that's you know, whenever magicwent away, that's what you
happen to be in that moment.
The idea of being stuck is likeI don't know, a, a rabbit or
(40:49):
something for like your wholerest of your fae existence.
There's something kind ofhorrifying about that and kind
of interesting like thoughtexperiment about that.
Yeah, so I enjoyed it.
I enjoyed that this.
I felt like this book startedto lay down some political
intrigue and like laying thepawns out on the board.
(41:11):
You know the matriarch of theiron teeth or whatever, and then
the king, and then you have theidea of magic.
You know, you have the idea ofrebel forces.
I feel like a lot of likethings are being brought out to
the board and I always, like youknow big, epic, fantasy type
stories that have like politicalintrigue, where it's not just
(41:32):
like oh, we were the most badassarmy, so we win.
You know, I always like it whenthere's like things more than
just brute strength that comeinto play.
So yeah, I very much enjoyedthis.
What do we feel about theromance?
Ashley (41:45):
I did not love the romance.
I mean, I get it.
Girl's got to get her stuffright.
The guy's hot.
She's been in slave hell forthe last year.
She needed some relaxation butit was only like two weeks worth
, poor thing.
I know she had herself a manfor two weeks.
(42:09):
It was interesting to see herturn on him so quickly, although
I think I understand why and Ithink you know some of that also
speaks to her.
Faye, you know responses.
Um, there was just nocontrolling that.
But that's how.
That's how you know he wasn'tfor her right, like that was
(42:29):
never going to be the happilyever after.
Yeah, it seemed we didn't haveany of it in book one so you
needed to have a little bit ofit in book two.
It was nice to see her happyfor a little bit, but it was
very short-lived and it makesyou feel bad.
The ending was really, reallysad.
He feels as though you knowhe's doing this grand gesture,
you know sending her away andsaving her.
(42:50):
And, bro, you should havetalked to her.
Yeah, this wasn't this reallybad communication.
They're dumb.
I did not love the room it was.
It was a three it.
It wasn't the worst, it wasn'tforced.
You saw something growing, youknow, in that love triangle
space for a while, so somethinghad to happen.
It was just basic for me, theromance, it was the three yeah,
(43:14):
jonathan I agree, it's basic.
Jonathan (43:16):
There wasn't, uh, there wasn't a whole lot um
going for me, except to say thatI'm currently on team kaol.
So with me deciding to be onteam kaol, and some of that's
because I think I think dorian'sjust kind of like this isn't
there's, there's too much,there's too much difference
between us, it's not gonna workout kind of thing.
(43:37):
Not like, not like I want, Ilike pink and you like red.
More like whatever opposite ofpink would be, I don't know, but
more like there's no way myfather would ever allow this.
This would just neverlogistically or, you know,
socially or politically work outfor us.
So it would just be a fling.
It might be spice later, Idon't know.
(43:58):
I think dorian's out.
I'm gonna at least give it a3.5 okay, what you think kelly.
Kelly (44:05):
I'm so tired of the romance triangle bullshit so I
just I don't.
I just didn't find the romancevery appealing.
I'm tired of seeing the ooh, doI pick Dorian?
Ooh, do I pick Kale?
Mari (44:16):
Ooh do I pick Dorian?
Kelly (44:17):
Ooh, do I pick Kale?
Like the romance didn't doanything for me, I didn't think
it was that great, so I gave ita two.
Mari (44:23):
Yeah, I will say, the first time I read this book I'm
just kind of at the same place Iwas with the first book.
I'm just like, if there'sromance supposed to be actually
really like real, true romancehappening in here, I am not
feeling it.
(44:43):
It's going under my head or overmy head or under the radar one
or the other, but I'm gettingnone of it or the other but I'm
getting none of it.
So I did find it interesting inthis read-through that I feel
that Kaol was genuinely in lovewith the idea that he had of
Selenia, who he thought Seleniawas, who he thought Selenia
(45:04):
would be for him.
He never truly knew her, but Ithink he was in love with the
idea of her this whole going offsomewhere, having kids, living
this provincial life situation.
I think he was truly in lovewith the idea of it, but I don't
(45:29):
think he ever truly knew Selena.
I agree, I think they nevertalked.
I think if I had to pick arunning gag on the whole, throne
of Glass is, everyoneunderestimates Selena at all
times and, yeah, if they wouldjust talk, things would be
different.
I think that there's probably athree for romance for me, and I
(45:54):
say that mainly because theidea of a tragic romance, so
that little bubble of happinessthat had to happen momentarily
for Selena and Kale in order forthe true tragedy of the
betrayal to like hit so hard.
And then also, if you look atit back like we defined it
(46:15):
before, romance with, like thewhole friend romance, the idea
of, uh, nahemia and selena justbeing these bosom buddies, and
then you know the last wordsthey say to each other, being in
anger, and then she's gone, andthen you get like these, I
don't know, it seemed like therewere three or four chapters
(46:36):
after she died where it was likethis multiple keep doing impact
over and over that SJM did oflike hey, did you know?
Nahemia's dead, by the way,nahemia's dead, and it affects
this, and it affects this and itaffects this, and Selena having
this mantra in her head of someof the last things that Nahimi
(46:56):
ever said to her was you know,you're a coward, and how that
guides her actions.
So, yeah, I think it was aromantic in the terms of like a
romantic tragedy, not in likeromance.
Happily, ever after situation,situation.
What do we think of the spice?
Ashley (47:17):
I mean I'm glad she got some.
I hope it was good for her.
Yeah, but she doesn't know anybetter either.
You know what?
I mean like he was her first.
So uh, kudos to you, girl.
I'm glad you got, especially inthe broom closet at work.
You broke that man's meetingand he had to bail to go to the
(47:40):
broom closet.
So I mean you get a two forthat.
But like she was quick to turnon him without question, right,
like he betrayed her trust andit got her friend killed and bam
, you're out.
Yeah, no that was like.
Kelly (47:56):
It was like a two there's .
Ashley (47:57):
There's not much to say about it it just wasn't the main
focus of the book like you saidit was.
It was a.
The theme of this book iscatalysts right like something
to spark, you know, the movementof something else in a powerful
way.
Yeah, it's a two because it wasthere, right, but like it
(48:19):
wasn't too detailed, it wasn'toverly romantic, it wasn't
overly spicy, it was borderlineforced in the story, not like
upon each other for clarity, I'dsay only a two.
Mari (48:35):
What did you think, Jonathan?
Jonathan (48:37):
Yeah, I agree a two.
I didn't think it was.
There was nothing that made meget super stoked on it, just may
be, I don't know.
Yeah, nothing crazy, that's all.
Yeah, just may be yeah.
Kelly (48:55):
Nothing crazy that's all.
Mari (48:56):
Just a two Kelly.
What'd you think?
Kelly (48:57):
I think the spice was basically non-existent, so I
gave it a one.
Mari (49:04):
Yeah, I'm like right there with you guys.
I basically gave it a two,because I think I gave it a one
last time because there was nospice and I guess technically
there was.
Like the little gossiping aboutthe broom closet situation was
kind of cute.
So, yeah, I gave that a twooverall for spice situation.
Yeah it was just there yeah,yeah, exactly do we think.
(49:27):
Is it a kissing book?
Why?
Ashley (49:31):
am I always surprised when this question?
Do we think is it a kissingbook?
Why am I always surprised whenthis question comes up Every
time you can go?
Mari (49:39):
last.
You don't have to go first ifyou don't want to.
You went first for everythingelse.
Is this a?
Ashley (49:42):
kiss.
I think this is a kissing book,but for different reasons.
I think this is a kissing bookLike.
This is a kissing book for Kale.
This is for her, you know, forSelena.
This is a kissing book forSelena, for Nahemia, If that
makes sense.
Mari (50:00):
Yeah.
Ashley (50:01):
Dorian.
This is a kissing book forhimself and his magic Um.
I think, arguably, if Kalehadn't felt what he thought was
intense love for Selena, youknow, the story would just be
over in this book, right?
He would have let her die.
He wouldn't have protected her.
(50:21):
I think, if you know Nehemiahadn't meant anything for Selena
, you know she would have justcontinued on her merry way as is
.
She would have just continuedon her merry way as is.
So I think it's a kissing book,but for different reasons, not
for a traditional like fatedmates or happily ever after.
I think it's kissing because itforces the story to go on.
Mari (50:45):
Yeah.
Ashley (50:46):
Especially for her as the main character.
Otherwise, she just would havebounced right, yeah, and left
them.
Just would have bounced Right,yeah, and left them all to their
doom.
So I'm going to say yes, butnot for the reasons that we
usually think.
Husband.
Jonathan (51:02):
I didn't think it was a kissing book.
Ashley (51:05):
Interesting.
Jonathan (51:07):
I'll keep waiting for the next one.
Mari (51:09):
Okay, I gotta say it the next one, okay.
Kelly (51:14):
I gotta say it is not a kissing book, because Kale
doesn't love her.
Mari (51:19):
He betrayed her.
That's not love.
Kelly (51:22):
If there's any love whatsoever in this book, it's
now that Selina is going to bedoing things out of remorse and
love for Nahemia.
Ashley (51:33):
That makes it a kissing book that doesn't make does it,
it's not.
Kelly (51:35):
Is it romantic love though?
Mari (51:38):
I don't know.
It depends on how you decide todefine it.
Kelly (51:40):
Yeah, I mean, really, if we're going to talk about the
real romance in this book, Imean kale and dorian just need
to go ahead and fuck.
Ashley (51:48):
I mean I mean I.
I think, though, that Kalefeels like he sacrificed
Selina's happiness for his ownby sending her off at the end,
he thinks he's protecting her.
He thinks he's sending hersomewhere safe, somewhere to be,
you know, with people, if nother family to an extent, then to
(52:08):
people who are familiar withher legacy.
Kelly (52:11):
But he didn't realize that until after he made that
decision Right.
He didn't know that he wassending her there.
He didn't put two and twotogether until after she was on
the boat.
Ashley (52:24):
Oh, I guess that's true, so he wasn't doing it, yeah.
Kelly (52:27):
He was just a.
He's just an asshole.
Ashley (52:29):
He was just getting her out of town.
Well, I mean he was just anasshole.
He was just getting her out oftown.
Well, I mean he was stillgetting her out of a town to
keep her safe, like that was hisentire he had to, like he had
to manage that process.
He knew he couldn't talk theking into it.
He had to make a deal with hisdad to get her out of there.
He had to pull a ticket.
I don't know yeah.
Mari (52:45):
I think, I think it goes back to what we said, that they
need to talk, and I think thatKale is in love with the idea of
Selina, the idea of thischivalry, this idea of this
person that he can take care of,I was going to say, the idea of
being a hero.
Yeah, yes, yes, the idea of hisown grandeur.
Ashley (53:03):
Okay, then I take it back.
It's not a kissing book.
Yeah, he's more in love withthe idea of love than he is with
actually in love with the girl.
Kelly (53:14):
Right, that's fair.
Right, I reverse my answer.
You're right.
It's like, um, despite how muchwe may dislike neil gaiman, now
, one of the lines from one ofhis sandman books was, you know,
one of the sandman's, likeassistants or whatever, telling
him you know?
No, sir, I think you were farmore in love with the idea of
the girl and the love than youever actually were in love.
Mari (53:31):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's exactly it for Carol.
I think he was in love with theidea of this fantasy that he
had set up in his mind.
But, all that being said, Ithink I would say that, yes,
it's a kissing book, because Ithink that even the idea of love
it affected the action, theplot.
I think that even the idea oflove it affected the action, the
(53:52):
plot.
So I think that if Selina hadbeen anybody else who attacked
the captain of the guard, shewould have been thrown down in
the dungeons and that would havebeen it.
She would have been forgottenabout, she would have not gotten
out and gotten back into herown little private rooms with a
bath and a servant.
I don't think that would havehappened to anybody, but this
(54:12):
person that he had what hethought was love for, and also
the whole.
You know Selina's love forNehemia guiding her actions.
Whether that's retribution,whether that's shame, whatever,
but I think it's tied to thefriendship, love aspect of it.
So for me I would say thisone's a kissing book.
The first one was not by ourdefinition, like by my
(54:33):
definition of a kissing bookanyways.
So anything else anybody wantsto say about it before we wrap
it up, I'm very excited for bookthree on this one.
Kelly (54:43):
Me too, and the world expansion.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
My interest in these books ispretty low now.
Um, I think it's mostly becauseI have other things on my to
read list that I would ratherread.
Ashley (55:02):
So I mean, I think arguably the second book of a
long series like this is neveranything really to write home
about.
It's got there.
There has to be a steppingstone, you know, at some point
it yeah it would be extreme forevery book to just be, you know,
(55:22):
balls to the walls.
I feel like the middle booksare three is book three, in your
um opinion, better like, moreexciting, like more happening,
more people, more adventures,more love.
Mari (55:37):
Here's my problem I read these books so fast that I have
a hard time trying to rememberwhat happens in what book.
I was talking to Kelly earlierBefore we reread the first book.
I could have sworn that thefirst book ended with, like the
scene where she is shown to be afairy.
I thought that's where thefirst book ended.
(55:57):
So I was like, wait, I wasrereading the first book, I'm
like there's not enough chaptersleft for what I think is going
to happen.
So I'm not a good yeah, I'm nota good judge of that.
I can tell you that there'smore that is going to happen.
Yes, but I don't rememberspecifically if it's in book
three or not.
Ashley (56:14):
To be honest, Book three has definitely started out a
little bit slow.
For me, without any spoilers,it started out slow but I think
we're finally starting to get tosome realness between her and
this new character.
Again, that catalyst, catalyst,right, something important
needed to happen for them tofigure out, you know, mutual
(56:34):
ground and bond or something.
So I'm excited to see thisstory develop from there.
But I am listening to theaudiobook, so that's taking some
time.
Cool, I can't listen to it at4x speed like my husband.
Mari (56:45):
Yeah, no, no way all right , anything else before I wrap it
up that's all I got.
Ashley (56:52):
You got anything husband ?
Jonathan (56:53):
No, that's all I have Kelly, you good.
Yeah.
Mari (56:56):
All right.
So thanks for listening to OfSwords and Soulmates.
Before we go, make sure tocheck the show notes, rate,
review and subscribe to us onyour podcast app of choice.
It helps others to find us.
Follow us on Instagram at OfSwords and Soulmates.
Check us out on our website ofswords and soulmatescom, or on
YouTube, tik TOK, facebook orPinterest with the same username
If you'd like to offer asuggestion for a future episode
(57:17):
or just give us your opinion.
Reach out to us on any of thoseoptions or email us If you want
to read along with us as weprep for a new episode.
Follow us on Goodreads atofords and Soulmates book club,
and we also have a Tome accountsame nickname Of Swords and
Soulmates.
Before we announce what allwe're going to get into for the
(57:38):
next episode, I wanted to read areview that someone left us on
Spotify.
It was a while ago.
I'm not great at pulling upthese reviews and I apologize.
The username was just anonymousso I don't know who left it,
but they said that they love theliterature, news and lively
debate.
Exclamation point.
Ashley (57:55):
So very nice Anytime pal .
Mari (57:58):
Yes.
Ashley (57:59):
That's what we're here for, absolutely.
Mari (58:01):
All right.
So, last but not least, we hopeyou'll join us in two weeks
when we have our next episode.
We are not going to be readingsomething for next episode,
we're going to be having aspecial guest interview, and you
will find out who that is byfollowing us on social media.
Pay attention for the surprise.
Bye, bye.
(58:24):
Thank you for watching.
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