"Iron Flame" - Plot Twists and Predictions

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Ever wondered how to navigate the often tumultuous seas of book collecting, especially when it comes to special editions? We've been there, shared the frustration, and today we're spilling the tea on all things literary buzz. From Callie Hart's much-anticipated "Quicksilver" in the Fey and Alchemy series to the sell-out success of Sarah J. Maas's exclusive Night Court edition, there's plenty to discuss. BookTok sensations and their impact on our reading habits also take center stage, alongside some juicy preorder gossip that's bound to stir up excitement and maybe even a little envy.

Our bookish banter doesn't stop there.  The anticipation for the third installment of the Empyrean series has us all on the edge of our seats, as we examine the series' captivating world-building and the narrative evolution from college settings to sprawling kingdoms. Through spirited debates, we explore the moral complexities and societal questions presented in the Empyrean series, offering our unique takes on the multifaceted world Rebecca Yaros has crafted.

A central theme in this episode is the romantic entanglements that keep us turning pages late into the night. Xaden and Violet's relationship faces scrutiny as we explore their communication hurdles and protective instincts amidst a wartime backdrop. We tackle the spicy side of their romance, highlighting the memorable scenes that balance attraction with deeper connections. Theories on second signets and mind melding add an extra layer of intrigue, prompting us to speculate on future plot twists and character capabilities. Join us for an engaging discussion that promises insights and a hearty dose of literary passion that any romance fan will appreciate.

Links from the News Segment and Show (not all were discussed):

• Quicksilver book 2 by Callie Hart. 
  • It has no listed title but is listed under the name Fae and Alchemy book 2 
  • Release Nov 18 2025
  • Amazon Link 
• Sarah J Maas announced a special Night Court edition of the ACOTAR books 
  • Exclusive to Barnes & Noble
  • Available 05/29/2025
  • Barnes and Noble Page

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Episode Transcript

Ashley (00:00):
Views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the
participants.
The hosts make no claim to beliterary experts and their
opinions are exactly thatopinions.
All creative works discussed orreviewed are the intellectual
property of the creators of saidstories and is being used under
the fair use doctrine.

Mari (00:32):
Hello and welcome to Love Swords and Soulmates, a podcast
where we read, watch and discussromanticist stories.
I'm one of your hosts, mari,and with me I have the crew from
Summer Reading Creations.
Summer and Rebecca say hey, hi,hi, and with us we have hey
guys it's Ashley.

Ashley (00:45):
We also have Jonathan.

Jonathan (00:47):
What's going on?
It's me, JP.
How's everybody doing today?

Mari (00:52):
Today we're going to be discussing Iron Flame, book two
in the Empyrean series byRebecca Yaros.
But first we're going to getinto some news and then we'll
get into the book a little bitmore.
I tried to keep the newssegment fairly short because I
figured we'd be doing a lot oftalking.
Surprise surprise.
So the first thing I had in thenews area was that you can now

(01:14):
preorder Quicksilver book twoQuicksilver by Callie Hart.
I've not finished it, but Iknow you have, didn't you, ash?
I did.

Ashley (01:23):
You liked it one yeah, it's a thick book and it takes.
It takes a minute because sheis doing world building.
I always stumble on those twowords, forgive me guys.
World building, and so it.
I would say don't judge thisbook by the cover, which is
stunning and the book is great.
But, like you, gotta you gottagive it a little bit more time.
You gotta get to like 35 40,and it's gonna get a lot better.

(01:43):
Gotta you gotta give it alittle bit more time.
You gotta get to like 35 40,and it's gonna get a lot better.
I've I've seen a lot of peoplestruggle.

Jonathan (01:50):
Don't give up okay, I you know.
It's interesting that you saythat, because quite often, when
it comes to the books that thatsome people recommend it, what
I'm hearing you say is this isgoing to be a horrible thing for
you to endure.
But I need you to just tough itout, just like say is this is
going to be a horrible thing foryou to endure, but I need you
to just tough it out, just likeSay horrible, it's going to feel
like you're getting somebody'sstuff.
It's going to be uncomfortable,people are going to be standing

(02:11):
on your toe.

Mari (02:12):
I know.

Jonathan (02:14):
But, if you just get through, it through like this
percentage of it, if you getthrough all the way to this,
it's coming.

Ashley (02:20):
It's easier.

Jonathan (02:21):
It's downhill then.

Ashley (02:22):
The security line at Universal.
You know it's coming, know whatyou're going to have to get
through.

Jonathan (02:27):
Man, am I paid to get around that we valet?
No, we valet.
So that way we get privatesecurity.
You got any private books?

Ashley (02:40):
Listen.
Callie Hart has made a splashon BookTok.
May it rest in peace,potentially in the next five
business days.
Book talk may it rest in peace,potentially in the next five
business days.
Yeah, and it is.
She's become so popular in avery rebecca yarrow's kind of
way that it's pushed the releaseof her second book by like 10
months.
They're the waterstoneseditions are selling out and,

(03:03):
yeah, I pre-ordered book twosome weeks ago.
There's no cover.

Jonathan (03:09):
I don't think we even have a title, do we?

Ashley (03:12):
So Quicksilver is the first book, but I believe the
series is called the Fey andAlchemy Series.

Jonathan (03:18):
That's not the name of this book though, no.
Do you see where I can getconfused here?
I'm a pretty face and I I'mlost in just read the book.

Ashley (03:31):
You won't regret it and I think big things are going to
come out of it.
Book talk made her so famous.

Jonathan (03:37):
She got a traditional publisher and now book talk is
dead not yet that's not booktalk's fault, yeah more days,
some more support I mean summer,rebecca, have you guys read
that red quicksilver?

Summer (03:50):
no, like I was saying earlier, we, it was one of those
.
I saw all over tiktokeverywhere, so I went to
download it and realized that Ialready bought it on kindle.
Whoops, so I will be you'regonna read it twice now.
Yeah right, I don't even knowif I read it the first time.
It's probably just on my TBRfor the longest time.

Mari (04:09):
Yeah, mine's on my TBR.
I started reading it and then Ihad to stop for something and I
need to go back.
I'm probably going to have torestart it to just devote time
to reading it, because I think Istopped and then got caught up
in 15 other things and Gotcaught up in 15 other things and
you know, winter holiday stuff,and then now Imperium, syrian
stuff.
So sometime after next weekwe'll probably get back to

(04:30):
Quicksilver.
But yeah, it's the Fey andAlchemy series.
It's book two.
It doesn't have a title.
It's going to be releasedNovember 18th 2025.
All right.
The other news thing I have isSarah J Mass announced a special
Night Court edition of theAkatar books.
There's really nothing newabout them.
It's just a pretty cover.
So it's only the paperbacks.
It's exclusive to Barnes Noble.

(04:51):
It's not, from what I could see.
It's not like a set where youcould buy all of them.
You have to buy themindividually.
It's limited editions.
It'll be available May 29th ofthis year.

Jonathan (05:05):
But apparently, from what I was looking of the, some
of them are already sold out, sothey're all.
Yeah, I see this on theirwebsite.
It's like pre-order, um, andeverything looks to be and you
know I'm a sucker for a bookwith a circle on the cover but
the they all look to be the sameprice, except for this last one
.
So what's wrong, what'sdefective with akifas?

Mari (05:21):
nothing, I mean, it's just it's popular.
I guess I, I don't know, Idon't know why the the cost
difference.
I'm always very iffy aboutbuying special editions of
series that aren't complete,because if I buy them and like
them and then, whenever theseries is complete, like, are
they gonna have the rest of thebooks in this version?
You know what I mean that'syeah that's my issue of this.

Summer (05:45):
Sorry, that's my issue with having the series right now
.
I just actually got the forchristmas, but the series isn't
finished and I wanted thespecial edition one they had at
books a million and that wasprior to them announcing this
yeah, do they do the set thatyou got for christmas?

Jonathan (06:02):
does it come in a polite, tidy box too?

Summer (06:05):
yes, and it bothers me because when I get the sixth one
it won't be in the box yeah soI'm having issues with that yeah
we love a special edition, butwe want the next book.

Ashley (06:20):
Yeah, just give us something, ma'am.

Jonathan (06:25):
We need something pretty please I was thinking
about starting uh throwing aglass I would love it if we read
that on the podcast yeah, Ithink I'm leaning towards it,
like maybe next, like I mightyou have, you have one on the
shelf over there, right?
I like how he says one how manyof them do you have?

Ashley (06:44):
Grown a Glass is not a small series, it's a one book.
Didn't we just talk about doingsome fluffy ones?

Jonathan (06:50):
It's one book.
I'm reading it.
I've just read a fluffy one.

Ashley (06:51):
It's not just one book, Listen.
You read one.
You read ACOTAR.
And then you refused to readthe rest.

Jonathan (06:59):
About 45 years ago my mother popped out a child.
She years ago, my mother poppedout a child.
She named that one james.
Now, what happens after that?
Subsequent children are notcalled james.
Right, I have my own name,right?
So the so sarah j math is likehere's a book we're gonna call
the throne of glass.
The next book has a name too.

Ashley (07:15):
No, next book's name glass series, just like akatar's
akatar series.
That's only book one.

Jonathan (07:22):
Stop trying to make us do things, because then you got
.
You got akamath, then you gotaqua war, then you got act cops
any other new stuff?
Did y'all hear that um onyxstorm is dropping?

Mari (07:37):
what's that I haven't heard of?

Jonathan (07:38):
that it's a book about a dragon and a and some friends
um pretty pretty cool, pretty,carry on, carry.
I want to hear the rest a lotof people are upset right now
because, uh, it turns out thatentry level employees I don't
know if that's the right termare struggling to respect, uh,
book embargoes.
So socials are all a flutter.

(08:00):
The socials are all a flutter,with people like accidentally
being able to purchase the book,like a week ahead of time I've
seen a few places from targetand walmart specifically, where
they're already on the shelves.

Summer (08:11):
They just won't allow you to purchase it, which I feel
like defeats the purpose,because you could just read
through the pages in store Imean, some are getting through
there are some that are gettingdid you?

Jonathan (08:20):
did you hear the trick that people are doing?

Ashley (08:22):
Changing the cover.

Jonathan (08:25):
Yes, that's zapped.
Horrible, Although I'm notgoing to lie.
Maybe you just get a cheaperone.
Get one that's on sale.

Summer (08:34):
And that takes away from our dragon mother.

Jonathan (08:37):
We don't condone that.
Kelly edit that out.
Pause for an instant we'regoing to have to get our legal
team involved.

Mari (08:48):
So obviously, why we're going to be reading Iron Flame
right now is because book threeis coming out.
Like we are recording this,just so you can see behind the
curtain a little bit.
We're recording this on January16th.
Book three comes out nextTuesday, january 21st, and so we
are rapidly catching up andrereading and or reading to be

(09:09):
caught up for book three.
This is I'm pretty sure this isthe first sequel that we've
done on the podcast.
Right?
Yeah, I think so, and thenwe'll get into the actual book
talk.
This book was published back inNovember of 2023.
Everyone expected VioletSorengel to die during her first

(09:29):
year at Basquiat War College,violet included.
But threshing was only thefirst impossible test meant to
weed out the weak-willed, theunworthy and the unlucky.
Now the real training beginsand Violet's readily excuse me.
Violet's already wondering howshe'll get through.
It's not just that it'sgrueling and maliciously brutal,
or even that it's designed tostretch the rider's capacity for

(09:50):
pain beyond endurance.
It's the new vice-commandantwho's made it his personal
mission to teach Violet exactlyhow powerless she is unless she
betrays the man she loves.
Although Violet's body might beweaker and frailer than
everyone else's, she still hasher wits and a will of iron and
leadership is forgetting themost important lesson Basquiat
has taught her Dragon ridersmake their own rules.

(10:12):
But a determination to survivewon't be enough this year,
because Violet knows the realsecret hidden for centuries at
Basquiat War College and nothing, not even dragon fire, may be
enough to save them in the end.
Bum, bum, bum.
That's exciting, not even dragonfire may be enough to save them
in the end.
So, uh, what do we think?

Jonathan (10:32):
overall rating can we do 10?
Is there 10?
You stack them like you're likefive for the first one and five
for the second one.
That's 15, because then there'sthe other five, that's gonna
come the impending five.
Oh, oh, for sure.
So 25 it is.

Mari (10:46):
So 25 out of five for you, okay, okay, that's your overall
rating.

Summer (10:50):
Well, it is five book series.

Mari (10:53):
So that math, maths oh then we got to go 50.
So obviously you liked it.
That's all you got.
You got no notes.

Ashley (11:02):
Just 20, 50.

Jonathan (11:06):
Did you?

Ashley (11:06):
you got no notes just 20 , 50 did you?
You want notes?
No, she does not want.

Jonathan (11:08):
No, she does not need the 20, you don't want my 23
page word document.

Mari (11:11):
No, okay simmer down it's the hunt for the second signet
is what it is oh and fyi, at theend of this we're going to talk
about what we think will behappening in the third book,
because this episode willrelease on the 30th, which means
the third book will already beout.
Um, but as of right now, thissecond none of us here know

(11:33):
anything about the third book,yeah, yeah, so anything else you
want to say other than fivestars or 25 stars or 50 stars?

Jonathan (11:40):
jonathan yeah, all the stars, all the stars um in the
galaxy, um, it's, I like a goodriddle and I feel like, uh,
that's what this, the empyreanseries, brought to me.

Ashley (11:52):
So do you feel stumped?
Because you've got theories,but I don't think you're
convinced.
Like is there a hill you'redying on?
Just the yes or no?

Jonathan (12:00):
um.
I love how you set the bar justJust a yes or no.
Don't dig any deeper.

Ashley (12:07):
We're not joking about the word doc.

Jonathan (12:11):
Don't ask me for just a yes or no.
I would say there's not a hillI'm dying on.
But I could rank them in orderof what I feel is probable, but
I'll save that more towards theend, what I feel is probable.
So, but I'll say that, uh, moretowards the end.
Uh, the five for me is and Iand I my first read with this
book.
I struggled, uh, because it'sbroken into two parts and the

(12:33):
first book spans a year and islike what?
Like uh, 40 something chaptersor something like that.
And this one spans six monthsin their time in their world,
and it's like 66 chapters.
So it's like it's a little bitslower moving for me.
But what the second or my oneof my other rereads, uh, was

(12:55):
basically just like I'm on thehunt for this detail.
So now, every stupid singleword.
Was that comma supposed to bethere?
What did?
Did that?
Did this change the?
Should I inflect up or down?
What's going on here?

Ashley (13:09):
Meaning of the phrase All right, hamilton.

Jonathan (13:14):
Yeah, that's kind of where I like I went on this hunt
, the scavenger hunt, and thatman Ooh, I got the, I got the
chicken skin.

Ashley (13:21):
I like it so tired, but I like it so tired, you guys.
But did you think, um, I lovedthis book I.
I devoured the first one, Idevoured the second one, I think
.
I think I'm it more impressed,you know, with the author
because I've also read some ofher other works and so I see the

(13:43):
potential of this very longseries and it's also scary.
So this, this is a five for me.
I have such high hopes.
We've all read it more thantwice, it's very least in my
household.
My sister reads it.
I think this book actuallyhelped get her back into reading

(14:04):
, like she was never a readerbefore this and she's definitely
not a fantasy reader.
So I'm excited for everythingEmpyrean series.
I'm excited for this next book.
I'm excited for the televisionseries that's inevitably coming
at some point before we all die.

(14:24):
I don't have any complaints,think we are all you know
playing whodunit and murdermystery and find the signet, and
it's just such a delightfulgame that we're all just having
so much fun with summer rebecca.

Mari (14:40):
What do you guys think?
Oh, five stars a hundredpercent for me too.

Summer (14:45):
I I from the beginning of the book to the end of the
book.
It's a completely differentbook and I I disagree that it
was slow moving.
For me it felt there was a sagfor a moment, but then it just
felt so fast paced and there wasso much change.
But it literally it is just acompletely different book from
the book you started with.
It's amazing.

Jonathan (15:06):
What was the transition point for you?
When did the sag pick up andstart gaining momentum?

Summer (15:13):
for you, I don't remember the chapters and I
don't want to do spoilers foryou yet Well, spoilers.

Mari (15:21):
Yeah, we're doing all spoilers, so you don't have to
hold back on anything.
Oh, okay, perfect Full spoilersfor book, one book, two FYI
readers out there.

Jonathan (15:28):
Bring me a glass of last month's milk, all spoiled.

Summer (15:33):
So the sag for me was where they were doing this whole
back and forth, where thedragons could fly and see each
other, but they weren't allowedto see each other.
So there was just like no timewhere they were together then.
After that it just felt like itwas like boom, boom, boom, boom
, boom.
So many things happening andcoming together.

Rebecca (15:52):
Yeah sorry, good, I was gonna, I was I agree, like it?

Jonathan (15:59):
there's definitely.
It was a tipping point where,you know, it felt like I was
pushing a boulder up a hill butthen all of a sudden we were
rolling.
Yeah, becky, oh, sorry, it wasthat, it was a tipping point.

Rebecca (16:05):
Really, it felt like I was pushing a boulder up a hill
but then all of a sudden we wererolling.
Yeah, becky, oh sorry, it was a.
It was a five star for me and Ididn't get through this reread
because I was busy with work andeverything.
But I would listen to it andread it periodically throughout
the day and my favorite part iswhen they're at that um, that
other kingdom where he wants tosee her wield her magic and her

(16:26):
lightning and everything.
And her and yeah, and her andMeera are in the words are hard
where they're down there andthey release the Venon and they
have to get away.
Yeah, that was a fun part forme.

Summer (16:43):
A lot of really good action in this one.

Mari (16:46):
Yeah, I agree.
For me it was a five-star readas well.
First time I read, it was afive-star too.
I liked this book better thanthe first one.
This one expanded the world outmore and I felt like it just
delved deeper into thecharacters and opened my eyes a
little bit more to all thethings that are going on in the
world, and the action scene atthe end is really well written.

(17:11):
Like I rushed through it thefirst time I read the book and
then I just finished my rereadtoday and I could not read it
slower.
I rushed through it again.
Which is, to me, is if theauthor can control your pacing
of how you read.
Like if they're wanting you tosavor something and they're
making you read every singleword, or they're wanting you to
feel like you're in the middleof battle and everything's going

(17:32):
really fast and they're makingme do that.
I think that's.
That's a good writing, yeahabsolutely good pacing or
whatever.
Yeah, five star for me too.
Uh, what about the worldbuilding?

Jonathan (17:43):
You know, I think we got some some expansion into the
Peromish province and so somekind of the dichotomy of how
these two worlds, these twoareas or kingdoms exist within
the same, on the same continent,where Vesgayath, the and Navar

(18:05):
kind of built protections tokeep themselves safe and they
were like we have to, we needwalls and stuff like that.
And all of a sudden, when yougot to, when they went to the
Viscount to negotiate for theluminary and you got the
opportunity to see how the, uh,the, the flyers were, were
living and they had, and violetwas like oh, y'all got pools,

(18:28):
y'all, y'all got time to swim,like we don't yeah ornamental
grass, what?
right and they were like vikonwas like yeah, we're not, we're
here for a long time, so we'regonna be here for a good time.
Uh, so like seeing that.
And then when they were likewhat, like what happens when you
, when you guys like, when you,how do you, how do you bond with
a, with a griffin?

(18:48):
They're like, oh yeah, you jumpoff, like, um, what's that blue
cat alien movie style where yougot a link to uh avatar?
Yeah, so like you gotta likefall off and connect with one of
them on the way down and then,like you mount it, you're good
and like, oh, and if you miss,you're dead.
And they're like not now, you,just, you just go somewhere, you
go to one of our you go to likethe baking program or something
you're just gonna take a niceswim

Mari (19:09):
yeah like what like, which is what I was saying last
episode.
I'm like, why, why is bathgathwanting everybody dead?
There's got to be people tolike work the mess hall and like
do laundry.

Jonathan (19:19):
Not everyone has to be a badass superstar that's what
the cadets are for, yeah so,seeing the breakdown, those two
worlds come together, seeing akind of we're in this protective
bubble and we're seeing itthrough the lens of somebody
else who's maybe in that worldand living in that space and in
that protective bubble, and nowthey're stepping way outside of

(19:41):
their comfort zone and they haveto learn everything all over
again yeah that was fucking rad.

Ashley (19:48):
That's what you got for world building I loved the
expansion, you know, of what ourperception is of the story.
I I think my biggest I don'tknow if regret is the right word
, but I think my biggest, likewhat I feel is missing is more
into the actual dragon worldlike this is the empyrean series

(20:08):
.
When do we get to dive intothat?
But I'm assuming that the theconflict of humans right it.
We have to dive into that andexplore that and understand that
.
Maybe before we can dive intothe, the um delicacies and you
know, the spider web weavingthat will be the dragons.

(20:31):
I think it hit me when Violetrealized that Basquiat was
killing Perumish civilians justfor crossing the border,
basically, and I think that'swhen her world really tilted,
because that goes against thevery bare minimum of what

(20:51):
they've understood aboutprotecting the civilians and,
and you know, the people of thekingdom.
So I thought rebecca did afantastic job in taking, you
know what is not a tiny college,um, but it is a significant
space and it is, but it is avery small space in the grand
view of a kingdom and enlargingit.

(21:12):
So not only did we get to see awhole nother kingdom in cordon
right, who is arguably the nextin line for royal lineage over
there.
But we got to see more oferatia and tyrandor and explore
that, you know, as what was oncea flourishing um uh, not well,

(21:34):
I mean, I guess it was a kingdomback in its own time, right.

Mari (21:37):
Yeah.

Ashley (21:38):
So, uh, five, five for world building.
For me, I have no complaints,other than not seeing more in
the dragons.
Why, what are you fact checkingme over there, gordon, because
I just read that section.
Oh, that's where they were thatsection?

Jonathan (21:54):
oh, that's where they were.
That's where they're around.
Was that around chapter?

Ashley (21:56):
40.
Yeah, if I count the cars, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're in cordon,
he's, he's fact checking me,you guys I was also curious.

Summer (22:05):
I thought it was crowfla or crovla, something along
those lines yeah, I agree withyou, um, but uh but I didn't get
.

Jonathan (22:13):
During my reread I did not get up to 40, so I don't
know if I missed that part yeah,sometimes I thought for some
reason, I thought I'm with you,I thought it was, uh, coroblo,
I'm not sure.
What do you think of the world?

Summer (22:25):
building.
Who would pass me?
Yeah, okay, originally I put myworld building at a three
because I like the Sarah J Massdescriptive, like enriched in
color, like all the pretty wordswhen describing everything.
However, I do really like howwe went further outside the

(22:49):
walls and we get like moreinside the outpost when she's
visiting Zayden and you get allthe details of the Ryerson house
and like the stone and thearena that was built or the
Takaris had built and it's justall of that.
It was so immersive and I reallyfelt like I could bumped it up

(23:10):
since to four stars, butoriginally for me it was the
three stars because I like thecolors and the really like
fluffy, cutesy descriptions more.
But I felt like she did buildthe world really well and
stepping outside the, like yousaid, the college, that was the
whole book of the first book.
I mean, you made one not sosmall college, but it was just

(23:33):
one area of the map, an entirebook, and this time we're
stepping outside of that andseeing the entire realm other
than the veil.
Yeah, it ended up being fourstars for me.
I appreciated the descriptions.

Mari (23:48):
Nice.
Very good, becky, what'd youthink?

Rebecca (23:53):
The world building for me.
I didn't do the reread, so inthe first one, um, thinking back
, it was three, but I also likethe um.
My favorite part was like theruins, like the, the obstacles
that they had to do together andum, and the description of like
the hill that they had to climband when the Griffins came back

(24:16):
to the college and how they hadto fit in there and how it was
different for them, harder forthem, rather.

Ashley (24:23):
What a wild scene that was.

Summer (24:25):
Yeah, it was.

Mari (24:28):
That was intense version for most of the reread and that
scene where they had to go upthe mountain and um, where they
lose, um, the one writer likethat scene got me in the
dramatized audio version.
Yeah, in a way did not get me,just when I read it the first
time.
Uh, it was, yeah, it was, itwas rough my reread.

Summer (24:50):
It was just the regular audible version and it still.
It got me more this time thanphysically reading it.

Mari (24:56):
Yeah, fantasy world building for me was a four.
I definitely like the fantasyand world building in this book
better than the first book,because it does expand it out,
it does like, compare, like ohyeah, this is the way things are
done in Basquiat, but this ishow the rest of the world does
things.
This is what's going on in therest of the world way things are
done in Basquiat, but this ishow the rest of the world does
things.
This is what's going on in therest of the world.
I still feel that there arethings that don't quite make

(25:18):
sense to me, like afterrereading it this time.
I've sitting here thinking I'mlike okay, I understand that
Violet and Zayden are like andthey've gotten together and
they've done all these bigefforts and they're fighting the
Venin and everything beforethese two 18, 20, whatever year
olds existed.
Why didn't the venin overruneverything then?

(25:39):
Like I I'm sure we'll find outmore in other books, but I'm
like I feel like asdysfunctional as the government
and the army and the society ofso much of this world is it?
It would have fallen before now.
Nobody talks to anybody else,nobody shares information with
anybody else.
There's a thing I'm havingtrouble with, and it may very

(26:05):
well come all together in thefollowing books, and I may bite
my words, but for now I had alot of trouble with how
dysfunctional so much of theworld was, so it's a four for
world building for me.
What do we think of the romance?

Jonathan (26:21):
With the books, like the romance with the books, like
how she was like, so in lovewith the books.

Ashley (26:26):
What do you?

Summer (26:26):
think we're talking about?

Mari (26:27):
What do we?

Jonathan (26:27):
usually talk about Jonathan.
I didn't really dig the romancein this one.
I wasn't really feeling likethere's not an abundance of it.

Ashley (26:37):
Like the first.
No, it's more.

Jonathan (26:39):
Yeah, the first part of the book was like.
The first part of the book waswas Colonel Atos' lockies trying
to keep Violet and Zadie Pantsapart, right?
So they kept like driving awedge between that between them
part, right, uh, so they keptlike driving a wedge between
that between them, so I wasn'treally super.
I uh, I didn't really get awhole bunch of romance out of

(27:00):
that.
Um, the biggest cozy, cuteromance thing that we had was,
uh, um, jessenia and the in theuh and the class clown.
What's his name?
Sawyer?
Is it riddick or Sawyer?

Mari (27:13):
Yeah, they're cute.

Jonathan (27:16):
So romance after all, that I'm going to give it a 15.

Ashley (27:20):
Listen, when Violet was in the torture chamber five days
in and she's like fuck, I stillhave two more days before
Zayden even knows that there's aproblem.
Meanwhile, that motherfucker ison the other side of the
country dropping wyvern out ofthe sky to disrupt the military,

(27:41):
the royal family, the civilians, the cadets, the infantry.
He's like, fuck this, we'regoing to distract you guys all
the way the fuck over here, turnyour worlds upside down and
then I'm going to storm thatfucking castle that is that guy
of college and get my lady outof there, cause that's a hundred
percent what he did.

(28:02):
And in her mind for the lastfive days she's telling herself
he's not coming for me, he'sgoing to protect his people,
he's going to protect thisrebellion.
That is priority number one forhim.
And the fuck, it was because hecame storming that castle for
her.
Had he been one minute earlier,dane, motherfucking atos would
have been dead because he neverwould have had a chance to kill

(28:23):
varsh from the get-go.

Jonathan (28:24):
There's so much did you read the same chapter?

Ashley (28:27):
yeah, no, no, no, so listen yes zayn is the one who
get.

Jonathan (28:30):
Who kills him?

Ashley (28:31):
that's what I'm saying.
If zayden was one minute sooner, zayden wouldn't have even had
a chance.
Oh, I thought you said later.
No, I'm sorry, yeah, no worries.

Jonathan (28:39):
I like the part of their relationship.
I like that.
So my favorite part aboutZayden is that Zayden starts at
level 10, where everyone else islike maybe we should go to
level 1, 2, or three Zayden'slike when you're like let's
interrogate them and ask somequestions, and Zayden's like
I'll interrogate You're dead.

Ashley (28:57):
That's what I'm saying.
It's like her with thelightning.
She doesn't know how to dolittle controlled maneuvers.
She's coming in with a fuckingwar hammer, so that's what he
does no, but listen.

Jonathan (29:06):
You're saying he needs , like, some Zandibar or
something.

Ashley (29:09):
There's letters they can't communicate.
They can't talk to each otheron a daily basis.
He's leaving her fuckingletters.
He doesn't know how to have arelationship, he doesn't know
what healthy relationships looklike, but he's fucking trying.

Jonathan (29:25):
There's so much pure romance in this.
You don't think that Taryn andSeagal have a healthy
relationship.
No, they love each other.

Ashley (29:29):
What does he know about their relationship?

Jonathan (29:30):
You're the Seagal to my Taryn.

Ashley (29:40):
You're know about their relationship you're the scale to
my parent.
You're deflecting.
What does he know?
I mean, he knows he's got it.
He's got to get the wackytobacco whenever they get it on
to help block him out.
That's all you know.
Listen, he's doing the best hecan with what he has.

Jonathan (29:46):
Oh, that's good, that's a good line.

Ashley (29:47):
Do the best you can with what you have that's what he's
doing and he admits it takes hima minute to process, but he
does admit it and he tries to dobetter.
And he tells her that there'seffective communication
happening when they have thetime to communicate.
But they are in the middle of awar at 20 and 23.

(30:08):
So I thought there was a lot ofromance here.
Yes, it's, you know, naive andyes, it's infantile, and they're
figuring it out as they goalong, because neither of them
know what a healthy relationshiplooks like.
And I think it's so great towatch them grow, like I.
The part that I was rereading,because I didn't get to finish
my reread either, so nobodyshould feel bad, but like I got

(30:29):
to where, um, they're in a ratio.
She brings him the chocolatecake you know on the roof of of
of his house and he's just likehe's just like you're the one.
You know what I mean.
He's like they pulled me out ofthere because I was the
liability and that's becausethey don't want to lose you
being violet.

(30:50):
And he's he's recognizing whatit's like to be considered the
weak link, and look at himexpressing his feelings he
should be a real man.
Stuff that shit down no, go sitin a corner.
That is terrible to say.
Do you know what podcast you'reon?

Jonathan (31:07):
yeah, swords and soulmates.
Yeah, I'm not.
Come on now if you don't knowwhere, you don't know where
we're at.

Ashley (31:11):
You don't know where we're at is it the most
beautiful romantic relationshipthat I've ever read in the book?
No, but I think there's so muchpotential here, what?

Jonathan (31:21):
are you giving it?
It's a four.
Okay, that was a long.

Ashley (31:23):
There was a lot to say.
Simmer down.

Jonathan (31:29):
Interesting Sarah.
How's it going?
Wait, what are the names saying?

Mari (31:31):
sarah how's it?

Jonathan (31:32):
going wait, no summer, we got summer summer, hi, it
was close.
Hey, summer, how's it?

Summer (31:35):
going, it's going how?

Jonathan (31:38):
do you feel about?

Summer (31:39):
the romance, oh man was it romance romance?
yeah, I, I don't know.
So here let me.
I love zayden.
He is my husband, I ride forzayden, he is my husband, I ride
for Zayden.
But this book and him, this bookspecifically, and his not

(32:00):
giving her answers unless she'sexplicitly like asks the right
question, pissed me off to noend.
I couldn't, I hated that hertrying to like traverse like the
damage in his mind to ask theexact question, to get answers
out of him.
And then I kind of disagreethat when they were together

(32:21):
they communicated.
Well, I don't think that's true, because I feel like for the
first chunk of them beingtogether in person, prior to him
starting to write her letters,it was an argument or he like
would shut it down and he'd walkaway and then he left early and
then they came back and theywould have this like heated
little moment and not reallytalk about the issues or kind of

(32:44):
skate around a little bit ofissues.
And I do see towards the endwhere he does start to like he
takes her with him to do thedrop and he's kind of like
trusting her a little more, andthen he writes these letters and
he's letting her into his lifea bit more.
And then the moment on the roof.
I just don't love how long ittakes him to get there, knowing

(33:06):
that he loves her this much.
You almost lost her in the lastbook, right at the end, and you
said this was the hardest thingyou knew then.
How much you care about her,then why aren't we letting her
in easier?
Why are we still making herfight for this information from
you?

Jonathan (33:24):
I didn't like the communication okay they're at
war, right and uh, and he has agreater level of knowledge than
she does.
She has to go back to Basgaiaand where she's vulnerable to

(33:45):
people who are looking to her asa source of information against
their enemies.
Information against theirenemies and in a world of of
riders who may or may not haveintrinsic uh uh signets,
oriented signets, um, he'sprotecting her by not giving her

(34:05):
the information until she caneffectively shield people out.

Summer (34:11):
I don't fully agree with that, because he was the one
training her, so he wasshielding her against him.
But his powers are above thenorm.
So she already had shieldsabove her grade level and I feel
like she'd already given up,like she'd already lost her life
for them.

(34:31):
She'd already seen Brennan,she'd already seen the other
kingdom and knew kind of behindthe curtain what they were doing
.
So at this point she's alreadya risk and a liability.
If she was going to be one,then she was already one.
There's nothing more that hecould have told her.
That she didn't already kind ofknow.

Rebecca (34:51):
But his other signet.
She didn't know about that.
He kept it from her.

Summer (34:55):
Yeah, that's the only one I'll agree on, because I
feel like that one was more lifeor death for him personally.

Rebecca (35:01):
I don't know.
I like the romance in this book.
Oh, I don't likemiscommunication, though, and I
still can't get over whenever heasks her how long it takes to
fall out of love.
It guts me every time, yeah.

Ashley (35:14):
Asks her how long it takes to fall out of love it,
guts me every time.

Mari (35:16):
Yeah, yeah, oh it guts me every time.
That's a rough scene.

Summer (35:17):
So he did have those jaw drop moments where he would
like, like you said, he showedup while she was being tortured
and the line he gives her he'slike I'd have been here sooner,
but it took forever to get thewyvern, yeah.
And then, like you said, themoment where he's like how long
will it take you to fall out oflove with me?
There were those jaw dropmoments where you're like, oh,
my heart there weren't enoughfor you I don't think so.

(35:40):
There weren't enough of thosemoments to make it, so my rating
for that was the three I don'tknow if I said that or not,
because I don't think there wereenough of those like heartthrob
moments.

Rebecca (35:49):
Oh, sorry, that's okay.
That's okay, that's youropinion.
It's your opinion.
I'm sorry.
I was like.

Jonathan (35:58):
That was the equivalent of like a bookish.
Bless your soul.
He was like oh, I'm sorry,that's your opinion.
Oh, my goodness.

Rebecca (36:10):
Becky, what was your rating For the romance?
I'm going to stick with a four.
It wasn't a five for me becauseI felt like there was so much
miscommunication and so many hitor miss moments where they
could have communicated betterand it would have portrayed a
stronger connection with them.
But because she was keepingthings from him, he was keeping
things from her and they justdidn't fully trust each other,

(36:33):
even though that was her problemat the end of the last book was
that she felt like he didn'ttrust her, but then she still
kept things from him too.
So it's like intentionally,intentionally, yeah.
So it's like, oh, I'm justhoping the next book's gonna be
better.
More love, lots of more loveyou know in terms of
communication.

Jonathan (36:54):
So you touched on something there where she's
she's keeping.
She's keeping things not onlyfrom him but from her most, her
closest relationships at thisguy and that comes back to bite
her in the, in the in the buttlater on.
But then, um, one thing I'd liketo see, I'm looking forward to
hopefully someday in the futurewe see this uh played out on
screen.

(37:14):
But I want to see in this.
I have this image of violet andzayden having their mental
argument in front of like rey,soy and riddick, and like when
they're arguing with each otherinside their heads, like their
eyes get bigger, like wide, open, like wide, and they're like
lean in, like you know, likethere's like a look on their
face, but then, like soy andriddick, are like side eyeing,

(37:36):
like what is happening?

Rebecca (37:38):
you just hear like western music in the background
they're staring at each other.

Mari (37:42):
Yeah, and I want somebody to just come by and like drop a
bucket of water on them orsomething, snap out of it.
Yeah, for me, the romance, Irated it a five.
And the reason I rated it afive is because I thought, even
though it wasn't perfect, Ithought it did a really good job
of portraying very difficultsituations and portraying

(38:06):
progress, which I feel is whatlong term relationships are all
about.
Whether it's a romanticrelationship, whether it's a
friend relationship, it's alwaysgoing one way or the other.
You're either going closer tosomeone or you're growing apart
from them and I think, knowingRebecca Yaros' situation, with

(38:26):
her husband being military andbeing deployed multiple times, I
feel like she did a really goodjob portraying long distance
relationships.
I know at various points in mymarriage it's been long distance
and that has its own bag oftrials and tribulations.
It does change how you have tocommunicate and what you can and

(38:49):
can't do, and it changes yourdynamic, not only when you're
apart but when you're togetherand they're at the very
beginning of their relationshipand having to deal with that.
I thought it was interestingseeing how they dealt and how
the long distance affected them.
I think that them learning tocommunicate and how they got
better and better at it.
They weren't great, I'm notsaying they were great, I'm not

(39:10):
saying it's a great.
It's a great example of aromantic relationship but how
they I think towards the end ofthe book get better at
communicating, both atnavigating the war and the
things that pull them apart, butalso each other and the games
they're playing with each otherand the things they're keeping
away from each other.
And, very importantly, the factthat you can love someone and

(39:32):
still argue with them, that youcan argue in love, um, and that
it's not like being in love withnot.
Oh, if you don't win thisargument, you know, that's it
kind of thing that you, you, youcan do both, you can disagree,
you can, you know, try andconvince each other one way or
the other, and it not bedependent on whether or not you
love each other.
And the other thing is thatthey're a little more into the

(39:56):
relationship at this point and Iliked how, yeah, there was
spice stuff and there's stillthis like hot, first love,
carnal, like relationship aspectto the romance, but it also
kind of gets tempered some andit's like, okay, the sex is
there, yeah, he's hot, yeah,she's hot, but then they're also
like getting beyond that andlearning like the deeper

(40:19):
relationships beyond, like thefirst love aspect of the
relationship.
It's not perfect, but I thoughtit was a really good example of
like progress in that direction.
So I enjoyed the romance inthis book much more than the
last book.
It's a five for me.
Yeah, I agree, you can see bookmuch more than the last book.

Summer (40:34):
It's a five for me.
I agree.
You can see how it's the longdistance thing.
Maybe that's why it's a turnoff for me, because I can't do
long distance.
It did make you feel like youwere in a long distance
relationship.

Mari (40:47):
Yeah, she did that really well.
Yeah.
What do we think about Spice?

Jonathan (40:52):
Ooh, Are you kicking your feet right now?
Um, I, you know there were twoscenes, um that stood out to me.
The one one was the when theywere in this, when he was in the
sparring gym.
After she, um, after sagale'sum, emotions kind of took

(41:14):
control and they were in.
They were in the sparring gymand he had, uh like I think part
of it was like this is archaicin this, in this space, that
they're in um, but then they hada water warmed bench and I was
like you know, I kind of, I kindof wish I had a water warmed
bench just in real life, and sothen that kind of stuck with me.
And then the other scene.

(41:36):
I won't say the phrase, but ifanyone else wants to jump, out
there and talk about Zayden'sprime list of possessions.

Mari (41:46):
The scene, yes, yes.

Jonathan (41:48):
Yeah, the scene read around the world, right, right,
you know it's.
It's not often that Zaydenflexes his, his Royal muscles,
you know like.
And so when he, when he walkedinto a room and he said, all
right, everybody out, and theywere just like, yes, okay, we're

(42:10):
out, we'll see you later, bye,and uh, and she, she, she, like
it was poignant, although, likewhen, when, I, when, when ashley
sits on a chair, it doesn't,she doesn't have the same
reaction doesn't occur.
So I don't understand what I'mdoing wrong it's not your throne
nah, she's not allowed in mybathroom.

(42:31):
Yeah, for spice.
I besides those two scenes, Ididn't.
It wasn't the spiciest book forme, so I'm gonna just I'm gonna
dial it back.
I'm gonna give him a 12restrain yourself restrain
myself.
Ash, what do you think of?
What do you think of the spice?
Was it like?
Was it caliente or was likepaprika?

Ashley (42:49):
uh, I thought the spice was a four.
Uh, I don't have any complaints.
I thought it was appropriatespice, I thought.
You know, there, I thought theydid a really good job dancing
around reestablishing trust andnot using sex to win each other
back over.
You know, for the, what feltlike the first half of the book

(43:18):
felt like the first half of thebook.
Um, it was very responsible ofhim to acknowledge that.
You know that anticipation inthat space was integral to them.
You know, re reforming thoseboundaries and and those trust
lines again.
Um, listen, I have not readanother book that involves a
throne scene of that nature.
I hear that it exists.

(43:38):
I thought, you know, my woman,my throne or whatever the line
is was, was very interesting,pivotal for them, especially in
in the sense that he was doingsomething specific for her, for
her insecurities, for her youknow her jealousy, her working
through the stuff with cat.
Um, yeah, it wasn't anoverwhelmingly spicy book.

(44:02):
I thought what was there wasextremely appropriate.
I think this was more aboutbonding and trusting again than
tumbling into bed, which wasnice.
So I say a four.

Summer (44:13):
I like, like you said, the emotional intelligence of
him to just not use sex as aweapon.
And in the first book that washis only goal was like we can
sleep together but we can't fallfor each other.
And she was the one saying like, oh, you can't tell me not to
feel.
And now this book was completereverse, where she's like, oh,
we can just sleep together andhe's like, no, we're not doing

(44:35):
that.
I really enjoyed that aspect ofit.
I liked the primal of theshower scene.
It was just very close off now.
Close off now.
And yeah, you know the throneheard around the world.

(44:56):
That's perfect.
I gave it a four just becausethe amount of scenes for me were
lacking, but it made up for itwith how great the scenes were.
I wanted more, so mine was afour, four stars for wanting
more.

Rebecca (45:07):
Oh, I will agree with that.
I've for what there were.
They were really good, but noyou're right.
A four the two that were themost pivotal for me were those
two also, and the fact that hereassured her so well in that
throne scene, and uh, nope, yep,I'm going to do a four.

(45:29):
Oh because the throne scenewasn't even like sex.
It was just about her.
Just about her and making herfeel more secure and comfortable
and get past her issues.
I'm gonna give it a five.
So bad, I'm gonna give it afive.
I'm gonna give it a five.
I'm gonna give it a five.

(45:50):
Do it Because what there wasthere was really good for what I
wanted out of it, so I'm goingto give it a five.

Jonathan (46:01):
We accept your five.

Mari (46:03):
I basically agree with you .
I gave it a five for the exactsame reason.
It is not.
It didn't have a lot of like ahuge amount of spice scenes in
it, but I wasn't necessarilylooking for that.
I, you know, was into thebalance of everything that was
in the book.
If that throne scene had notexisted, it would probably would

(46:24):
have been about a three orwhatever, but that throne scene
just pushed it over to a five.
For me, the fact that it wasabout prioritizing your partner
even in the midst of the worldfalling apart around you is
super sexy.
Like no notes Done, Five stars.

Summer (46:43):
Mic drop yes, and the commanding the room.
Just everyone out, yes, theroom.

Rebecca (46:51):
Yeah, just everyone out .

Mari (46:52):
Yep, yes, sir, yep All right Now, probably Jonathan's
favorite part, but you're goingto have to pick from that
25-page document you got goingon there and anything anybody
else wants to add in on any liketheories, anything else they
want to talk about what you got.

Jonathan (47:09):
All right, top down Most probable second signets.
And so I have these ranked umfrom most most likely to um.
To, like some, the what I feel.
This is just feelings.

Mari (47:24):
I have no let me say one thing before we get into it.
I'm gonna have you do that likesecond say and then have any
everybody else talk about anysecond sign segment, stuff they
feel like, before you go on toyour next theory.
If that's okay, yeah, okay, goahead.

Jonathan (47:35):
Absolutely yeah.
So I have.
For the second segments, I havea like what I feel is most
likely to occur all the waythrough like meh, it could
happen, kind of vibes.
Like meh, it could happen umkind of kind of vibes.
So I feel like and it's not,none of it's confirmed, you know

(47:56):
, like I think we're all outthere chasing the same um clues,
uh, like scooby-doo and thegang, the.
So I have four you can't seethis second, I am holding up
four for everybody to see.
Um, four digits, uh.
The first one is a remnant fromandarna's original gift, which
is so she not that she stopstime, but that she inadvertently

(48:19):
slows time.
So there's a uh.
There's many points throughoutthe book where she feels faster
than she is, or people like amatrix kind of thing.
Yeah, like, oh, you move superfast and I think it's just
subtle enough that it's notreally being noticed, but it's
happening and they do say that.

(48:40):
I guess the line in the book isthat most of the time, like
most times, you know they losetheir gift, but you know it's a
they, they lose their gift, um,but you know so kind of doors
still open.
Um, the other one, uh, optionnumber two is written in the
book with the in that moment hewielded him.

(49:00):
So maybe there's some sort ofcontrol, uh, over people.
The third one I have is the oneI hope with my heart happens.
Um and uh, that's where she canwalk into other people's minds.
Uh, and some of that is, I'mhopeful, because if she can walk
into other people's minds then,uh, maybe Liam's still alive.

(49:23):
I'll save that theory for adifferent section.
And then the other one is well,what if Liam's really dead?
Maybe she's just talking to thedead people.
Those are my second signettheories.
I'm leaning towards the firstone where it's like she just
kind of slows time down, shesqueezes it Just a little pinch

(49:44):
of time.
That's all.
That's where I'm at.
Anyone else got any secondsignet theories?

Summer (49:50):
I don't have any other theory.
Look, unless you draw me a mapto the point, I'm probably not
going to find it.

Ashley (49:58):
I'm not laughing at you.
Normally I am just thehappy-go-lucky reader right Like
surprise me.
I'm not playing Clue here.

Summer (50:07):
Just living in my delusional world.
But you mentioned speed and allI could think about was her.
I believe it was the fightingscene with Jack Barlow where she
states that like he's so muchbigger and like more muscular
and he's got the physical, butshe's quick and she says that so
many times throughout the booklike I'm fast, like I got my

(50:27):
speed ahead of everybody else,like I'm faster than all of them
.
So I'm kind of here for thatone that maybe it's not that
she's just fast or maybe it'ssomething to do with her, like
warping time.

Mari (50:37):
Yeah, I kind of had one that's real red string theory.

Jonathan (50:44):
Conspiracy theory.
I love that.

Mari (50:45):
But like okay, so really she doesn't wield lightning, she
wields light, right.
And because when he, when the Iam really bad with everyone's
names, but the professor wasactually helping her how to aim
after she left Basquiat, like inthe second part of the book,
the one that was training herhow to control, he talked about
how it's really light.

(51:06):
It's not lightning, it's light,okay.
At the same time in the book,all the students that came from
Basquiat are still learning.
They're learning physics.
Okay, keep that in mind.
Light is energy.
E equals MC.
Squared Energy is matter.
I think she's going to be ableto create things from nothing.
Do what menders can't.
Instead of mending can onlymend what's there.

(51:28):
She's going to be able tocreate things.

Ashley (51:36):
Then she can fix.

Jonathan (51:36):
Mend what's there.

Ashley (51:36):
She's going to be able to create things that she can
fix in darna's week right andshe'll be able to ride in darna.

Mari (51:39):
Well, that's my theory.
It's not broken.
Well, so that's a differenttheory.
And darna's got a musclemissing.
That makes it to where she'sunable, potentially, to ride.
To carry a rider, is what whatthey were saying?

Ashley (51:46):
right what they said in the book.
Yeah, we have a theory aboutthat.
About that, though, in thishouse.
No, let's finish the currentCigna theories.

Jonathan (51:52):
Don't go down another rabbit hole.
Who took me?
You pointed at the hole.
I see the hole.
I see the hole.
Write it down.
Write it down.
Write it down.
It's in the book.

Summer (52:01):
Oh, that makes so much sense, because why else would
equals mc squared?
But that makes sense.
Why the venin want her?
Because she can create matter.

(52:21):
Then they wouldn't need tocreate wyvern.

Ashley (52:22):
Right, they could use her, but how would they?

Mari (52:23):
know I don't know.
I don't know how they know whatthey know.
There's so much about thevernon that we the venin that we
don't know.
I don't understand the ven.
There's so much about theVernon that we don't know I
don't understand the Venon,which I think we're meant to not
understand them.
I don't think we know how theyknow what they know.
I don't think we know thelimits of their powers.
I don't think we know trulywhat they want.

Ashley (52:41):
So I'm going to throw a theory out there that I came
across very recently on TikTok,and so it's at the forefront of
my brain and for the most part Ithink Jonathan's explored the
others that we believe veryfirmly in our household.
And first I will preface Marie,did you read the supposedly
leaked chapters from Apple?
You're so brave.

Jonathan (53:02):
You should leave the supposedly leaked chapters out.

Ashley (53:04):
I am?
No, I am, but I was going tothey don't really point to a
whole bunch no, but this mightresonate if she had um.
So it doesn't say this exactlyin in that leak, but somebody on
tiktok said, um, what if violethas more than just one more
signet?
And that's why we're basicallyhaving such a tough time

(53:26):
narrowing down what it is in thebook.
There are multiple things, thatkind of pull, that extra power
thought process.
So yeah, she's, she's reallyfucking quick, but also she had
to train to run.
So that doesn't make a ton ofsense overall for me, but it
would if she only has access tothat at certain times.

(53:48):
Right, because Because it'smore than one signet.
And then another one was, youknow, maybe she is talking to
the dead, but again, you're onlyable to access that at very
specific times.
But then another one was the,the mind melding or the mind
traveling.
I do think that there's a verystrong push for this one and I

(54:09):
think because we don't see itexcept one or two times, maybe
three.
So there are two verysignificant scenes that she has
with zayden where she is inthere right, like like a fucking
second skin.
She's in him, um, as far as hismind goes, and the first one is
in the throne room scene.

Jonathan (54:28):
And the second one was his tongue in her.

Ashley (54:31):
Nobody was talking to you.
And then the second one waswhen he's fighting the Venom
Sage or whatever it is, you know.
At the end of the book there'sa point to where and Jonathan
says I'm wrong and I haven'tgotten back to this point yet,
so forgive me, but there's apoint that she's so deep in the
view of what Zayden isexperiencing in that scene that
she's almost no longer in herbody she yes.

(54:54):
I thought I remembered she wasseeing through his eyes, she was
smelling his smells, she wasfeeling his fear, um, and to me
that was her entering his mind.
But I will switch this upbecause someone else on TikTok
said while she's in the roomwith the ward and, um, general
sorngale is doing her and I'mtrying not to spoil this for

(55:17):
everybody who might be listeningwhen the scene is happening to
her mom, somebody yells Icouldn't stop her or I can't
stop her, it's something likethat.
And violet says I don't know ifthat's me or Brennan.

Summer (55:32):
And now I'm remembering so many like these outer body
experiences that she has.

Ashley (55:37):
Right so, and you could even spend that further, right
so, if because we have a Liamtheory too, and I'm trying not
to go down that rabbit hole toodeeply- but, if she, if she
can't, if she can walk minds andand see out of the mind of the
person that she's able to get to.
And there is, there's no body,right?

(55:58):
We don't see liam's body whenhe dies.
We just know that he, that hedoes die.
But you know what?
You know who else died?
Freaking barlow, jack, freakingBarlow died right.
So if, on the very off chance,either in a positive or negative
way, that Liam's body isn'tdead, if she can travel or walk

(56:21):
through minds, whatever thelanguage is going to be, and
he's alive, then that's whyshe's able to talk to him.

Jonathan (56:27):
I just got chills.

Ashley (56:29):
I know.

Jonathan (56:29):
So what I've been saying to Ashley is Malik's
magic requires balance.
Yeah, and if, if Nolan andothers mended Jack Barlow, then
it stands to reason that Brennanthat they could be testing it
with him.
Yeah, that wasn't the rabbithole that I'm going down.

Ashley (56:59):
Okay, the my point is if she has more than one signet,
perhaps it's because Andarna isnot just one colored dragon,
right?
We don't know exactly what sheis yet we see multiple times in
the book that her scale has thesheen of what's next to her, and
she says at the end that she'sthe seventh breed.
So what if andarna is all ofthe colors?
What if she's pearlescent?
What if?

(57:19):
What if she can change thecolor of her scales at whim and
that gives her the ability tochannel different magics into?
violet or something like that Idon't know, I'm not smart enough
.
That was the theory.

Jonathan (57:33):
That was kind of like snowballing on tiktok this week
so you're going down the rabbithole of, uh like, andarna is the
draw, four of dragons she's thewild card.

Ashley (57:43):
The wild card, but she is the wild card.

Mari (57:46):
Yeah, do you guys think we're gonna find out the signet
in the third book?

Summer (57:49):
I hope so Me too.

Ashley (57:51):
Yeah Gosh, we deserve some kind of closure.
But here's the thing theAndarna story.
I'm convinced that that's goingto be our cliffhanger you know,
for book three, in a way that italmost was for book two.
You get some a little tidbit,but not the whole picture.
A little tidbit, um, but notthe whole picture.

(58:14):
So I I I would hope that we getclarity on the signet because
arguably we're going to behalfway through this series as,
as rebecca understands itcurrently, so we we're.
I think three is going to belike our peak right, like that's
where we're going to get to theheightened of of the problem,
the multitude of problems thatwe're experiencing in the story,
the drama, the, the war, thefighting.

Jonathan (58:35):
I'm going to disagree with you on that one.
I think that three can beinformational, but I don't know
that I think two isinformational I think we're
going to get the um the zachmorris uncomfortable pain point
transition in book four and andthen we'll seek resolution in
five.

Ashley (58:54):
So you think three is going to be informational.
You think two was a problemyeah, I think she's got.

Jonathan (58:59):
She's going to connect some dots, but it's going to
leave us with so I apologizemore questions than answers.
Um, she has to keep you mother,has to keep you hooked on her
job so it tastes so good like.

Summer (59:13):
Two is probably just background and building the
story, and three is going to belike all the drama yeah, yeah,
it'll add to um to a lot of it.

Jonathan (59:23):
Like the theories are just running wild right now.

Mari (59:27):
I think I think three is going to be half half.
I think three is going to bemaybe the last little bit of
setup.
So I think there is still someworld stuff that we need to
figure out where the pieces arebefore we can figure out where
they're going.
But I think three is going toend on the beginning of the big
drama.
Whatever the big battle bigdrama is going to be, I think
four is going to be basicallythe drama and then it's five

(59:49):
books total.
Right, she's debating back andforth.
Okay.
So I think, whatever the lastbook, obviously it's going to be
like the denouement, it's goingto be coming apart, you know,
figuring out where it goes.
All right, anything else beforeI wrap it up, guys, I really do
need to wrap it up.

Summer (01:00:06):
I'm worried to keep going with my theories because
there's so many.

Mari (01:00:08):
So yeah, we'll call I'll stop, I'm gonna wrap it up.
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