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When Rebecca Yarros released Onyx Storm, the third installment in her Empyrean series, fans dropped everything to immerse themselves in Violet's continuing journey. Our podcast hosts were no exception – taking time off work, planning reading parties (thwarted by actual storms), and devouring the book in mere hours.
The conversation around this book reveals the fascinating dichotomy in how our hosts approach fantasy romance. We debate pure entertainment value and emotional impact versus technical criteria regarding world-building consistency and character development. This tension between "enjoyable escapism" and "cohesive fantasy craftsmanship" mirrors broader debates within the romantasy community.
Particularly compelling is how Yarros expands her magical system, introducing the Irids and revealing more about the balance of powers. The hosts passionately debate whether these elements feel organic or retrofitted, with one describing the book as "building the ship as she flies it." Meanwhile, the romantic relationship between Violet and Xaden sparks heated discussion about communication issues.
Beyond the story itself, the hosts tackle the concerning trend of romantasy authors delaying publications due to mental health concerns. They question whether fan expectations have become toxic, whether publishing demands are unsustainable, or if the multi-faceted role of modern authors (writer, marketer, social media personality) creates impossible pressure. As we await the next installment, expected around 2027, one thing remains clear – despite their critiques, there is anticipation for what comes next in this addictive series.
Links from the News Segment and Show:
- The Fable reading app now has merchandise
- Owlcrate is doing a special edition of Legends & Lattes and the sequel Bookshops & Bonedust
- Brigands & Breadknives, third book in the Legends & Lattes series comes out on 11/11/25
- Owlcrate is doing a special edition of the Emily Wilde series by Heather Fawcett
- Instagram
- $104.99 available to general purchase 04/03/25
- Abigail Owen and Kait Ballenger at New Romantics bookstore in Orlando on 03/25
- Graphic novel adaptation coming of the Empyrean series.
- Several romantasy authors have delayed/pushed back book releases due to mental health concerns. SJM, Yarros, Caggiano, Parker among them. What is going on?
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Kelly (00:36):
Hey everyone, it's Kelly.
We also have Ashley.
Ashley (00:39):
Hey guys, it's Ashley.
We also have Jonathan.
Jonathan (00:42):
What's good, it's JP.
The caboose is loose Oof.
Mari (00:48):
And apparently caffeinated
.
Today we're going to bediscussing Onyx Storm by Rebecca
Yaros, but first, as always, wehave some news to go over, some
tidbits.
I tried to condense it, butthere's just a lot going on, so
we're going to do the best wecan.
it's been a while since we alltalked it feels, like so much,
(01:12):
has hit the deck yeah, firstthing I have is that the fable
reading app now has some limitededition merch that they have
available that you can buy andthen it ships in april.
There's like t-shirts and likehoodie sweatshirt things and
like canvas totes, so those arekind of cute they're.
I mean they have the fable logoon them, but they're like
(01:36):
generic reading stuff, likethere's one going on memory I
think it's got a picture of likea 1950s illustrated looking cat
reading a book and it says livedangerously, read a book.
Jonathan (01:50):
I like the one that
says carrying my emotional
baggage.
Ashley (01:54):
And it's a tote.
Jonathan (01:55):
Yeah, it's a tote,
it's just books.
The designs look pretty.
They're very interesting.
Mari (02:14):
The designs look pretty.
They're very interesting.
It looks like 70s, like eventhe fonts on there, the
colorways using like oranges andmore of those lighter blues and
yellows.
It almost looks like a retrokids book, like an illustrated
kids book kind of vibe.
Right, yeah, I think so too,but they're cute.
I don't know if they're goingto be doing more after this.
It probably depends on how wellit goes, but I thought they
were neat.
Next thing is Owlcrate has alsobeen very busy.
Owlcrate is doing a specialedition of like a special
(02:37):
edition print that they do ofLegends and Lattes and Bookshops
and Bone Dust.
It's going to be available tothe general public to purchase
april 24th and it's going to be69.99.
It's got the usual owl cratestuff.
It's like beautiful slip coveror dust covers, reversible, you
know, illustrated, and the edgesvery.
(03:00):
It's very pretty and it's adifferent bit of bit of a
different color wave than theirother, like the other special
edition legends and lattes thatwere other companies did.
So the downside of that isthere's a third book coming out
in that series this year.
Yeah, november 11th, rigginsand bread knives is coming out,
(03:21):
which it's a sequel.
It's basically one of the maincharacters from the prequel book
, the second book that came out,the Bookshops and Bone Doves,
the bookshop owner.
It's kind of her going off anddoing something afterwards, so
it seems like it'd be a fun, funlittle read.
Of course I'm going to read it.
I like the other two.
I really really like thepaperback, illustrated paperback
(03:43):
version of these books and Ilike the other two.
I really really like thepaperback, illustrated paperback
version of these books and Ihave the first two in paperback
and this third one doesn't looklike it's going to be available
in paperback.
They're going straight tohardcovers, so we'll see.
Ashley (03:55):
Yeah, they're killing us
in all these hardcovers, man.
Yeah.
Mari (03:58):
Well and like consistency.
If you have a series, I want tobe able to buy that series in
the same format.
I don't think that's too muchto ask for.
Jonathan (04:07):
I think somebody has
to raise the bar on some of the
designs.
I think what's happening isit's trickling down into your
standard books.
We were at Sam's Club over theweekend and there was Allie
Hazelwood's um deep end.
Is that what it's called?
Mari (04:26):
Yeah, there's a special
edition version of that in there
.
Jonathan (04:29):
I mean, even just the
paperback has like pretty cool
edges on it, and if that'sbecoming the norm, they're
training me to now expect thatfourth side of the book or fifth
and sixth side of the books.
Uh, like the edges are nowgoing to be adorned, and so I
don't know if it's.
Ashley (04:50):
Expectations are high
yeah.
Mari (04:52):
Oh yeah, definitely.
Well, I mean, if the technologyexists to do that, then yeah,
maybe more authors, morepublishers need to do it.
Jonathan (05:00):
I buy books based on
looks.
That's fable.
If you're listening, put thaton a shirt.
That's fable.
If you're listening, put thaton a shirt.
That's the truth.
Ashley (05:06):
I do judge a book by its
cover.
Jonathan (05:08):
Yeah, oh, there you go
, or it's sprayed edges.
Ashley (05:11):
Yeah, I judge a book by
its sprayed edges.
Oh, there you go.
That's the one I.
What a time to be alive.
Mari (05:18):
I know I will pay
attention to a book if it's got
a pretty version and it'll like,go onto my tbr and go, probably
, bump up into my tbr so I canthink you know, try and read it
before so I can make a decisionif I want the the pretty version
.
But I'm trying.
We'll see how well I succeed.
This year.
I'm trying not to buy a prettyversion of a book that I haven't
read, because I gotta it's gotto be more than pretty cover.
(05:40):
I gotta want to keep it on thebookshelf because it's gotta
have substance.
Yeah, space, space.
Jonathan (05:46):
Um, limitations do
exist yeah, not me, I'm just.
Ashley (05:51):
I'm a whore for pretty
colors that should also be in a
book, yeah, or on a shirt.
Mari (05:57):
I'm a whore for pretty
colors the other thing that al
crate is doing is a specialedition of the emily wilde
series by Heather Fawcett andthey might get me on these,
because I do love this series alot and these special editions
look like the old-timeyleather-bound books, like when
you put them on the edge.
(06:18):
Yes, yes.
So those are going to beavailable for general purchase
April 3rd 2025.
And it's all three books for$104.99.
Ashley (06:33):
I mean I've spent
stupider money on worse things.
Mari (06:39):
They look very ornate.
I have heard people who go bookshopping in other countries,
whether it's any country otherthan the US or another language
or whatever.
A lot of other countries,especially European countries
particularly.
You'll go into a bookstore andtons of the regular books are in
a pretty version.
I am trying to learn to speakItalian, but I also bought the
(07:01):
Italian version of OliviaAtwar's.
But I also bought the Italianversion of Olivia Atwar's Half a
Soul because it is gorgeous andI'm like, okay, I bought it
because it's pretty, it's inItalian.
I've loved it in English.
Now I got to make myself readit in Italian.
It may take me five years, butit's just so much prettier than
(07:21):
so many of the US versions, somany of these fantasy and
romance and romancy books are.
We also have that.
Abigail Owen, who wrote Games,God's Play that we met at the
Romancy Con, is going to behaving a chat with Kate
Bellinger at the New RomanticsBookstore in Orlando on March
2025.
No, March 25th of 2025.
(07:43):
My shorthand, I confused myself.
Tickets are $20 and that ticketwill include the book by Kate
Bellinger, Original Sinner.
If you are a fan of either ofthese authors, I know that
they're going to have a.
I think they're doing sometouring stuff together, because
I thought I saw that later inthe year that both of them
together are going to be.
It was either in Chicago or NewYork, so depending on where you
(08:07):
are in the country, I would say, look them up If you're
interested in being a part ofthat.
Ashley (08:12):
I was going to say I
don't know if anybody works
harder than Abigail.
Oh my gosh, that lady is alwayson the move.
Jonathan (08:20):
Yeah, honestly, I
think, um, abigail Owen is
really good at like if the term,like you know, work in the
circuit kind of thing maybe is athing, and like this, a full-on
book tour, like living her bestauthor life yeah, I also think
ali hazelwood is doing a goodjob oh is she.
Ashley (08:39):
I guess maybe I don't
follow her on the social and
juliet cross.
Jonathan (08:42):
Juliet cross all over
the place.
It's only a group of like sixauthors that that I've just kind
of been following, you know.
With all that said, I thinkit's more of a I'm zoomed in
yeah right, your algorithm isalgorithmic yeah, and so there's
.
I don't know if it's commonplaceor uncommon, but the ones that
(09:03):
I'm seeing or that I'm exposedto seem to be all over the place
.
I do want to end up in the sameplace as hannah nicole mayer at
some point not creepy oh, it'slike creepy for juliet cross got
it yeah, exactly, yeah, there'sa few uh that I'd like to like
I want to have your shot withhannah on.
(09:24):
Yeah, we did.
We missed that one because wewent to go meet Josh Gad instead
for his book.
I think I want to go on Tuesday.
Can we go on Tuesday, bestfriend?
Ashley (09:33):
I can't.
Jonathan (09:34):
I might.
I'm not even going to lie.
Ashley (09:36):
I wouldn't be mad at you
.
Be free, little bird, bring meback a present.
Jonathan (09:40):
I prefer a little
serpent.
Mari (09:42):
So across the street from
the new romantics, where they're
this is being held, is thesalty donut, so you can always
bring back a yummy donut treat.
Yes, fucking better, bring meback and they have like the best
chocolate sheet cake, donutperiod end of story I will say,
in addition to them doing allthese like tours and things.
(10:02):
So I think they're also veryprolific.
Like abigail owen is reallyprolific, you know, julia cross,
is is really prolific.
Another one that comes to mindthat doesn't do a lot of tours
and things but is is heavy onsocial media and stuff is katie
roberts.
Like they just write so manybooks.
Like you know, something's gotto stick, something's got to
work for you.
If you have all these booksbeing published, published, you
(10:22):
know you're going to make it hitwith somebody.
All right, we also have that.
There is a graphic noveladaptation coming out of Rebecca
Yarris' Imperian series.
It's being done by.
I talked to you about thisearlier today.
Ashley (10:36):
Why are you giving me
and it's on the chat group the
betrayal Like bitch.
Why didn't you tell me?
Mari (10:48):
I said it out loud and
then I promptly forwarded it to
the group.
Yep, so it's going to be 10speed.
Graphic.
Pet piatkas and entangledpublishing are doing a six book
deal for the first threeempyrean books, so it's going to
be two graphic novels per bookis what it sounds like.
I know that that on the articlethat talked about it, um, where
rebecca yarls announced it,they hadn't announced, like, who
(11:10):
the artists and stuff are goingto be yet.
So I don't, we don't know who'sgoing to be doing drawing,
who's going to be doing inking.
I don't think we know any ofthose details.
Yet it's an interestingannouncement, especially knowing
that she was just in californiavisiting the production studio
it makes me think that maybe thelike visual, visual mode of
(11:33):
storytelling with the graphicnovels is being used to help
them move along the the tv showyou know what I mean.
Ashley (11:40):
I was gonna say I think
it.
They at least need to do it insome kind of concert with each
other because, they don't wantconflicting, not images, but
like likenesses, if that makessense, yeah, yeah we'll see.
Mari (11:55):
I'm not a huge graphic
novel um person.
I tend to like if I, if I readgraphic novels, if I like
graphic novels, I like to readthem once it's a complete story
as opposed to like um, you know,specific edition by edition,
just because I have a hardertime retaining a story when I'm
told such a small portion of it,you know.
(12:16):
But there's some graphic novelsout there that are good, that
I've enjoyed, so we'll see.
I I'll probably pick it up whenit comes out.
Ashley (12:25):
Yeah, I think it's
definitely going to be an
interesting concept because somuch is actually happening in
these books.
But yeah, it's not my area ofexpertise either.
Mari (12:37):
Kelly, do you think it'll
be a good thing?
Kelly (12:39):
I don't know.
Graphic novels are always arisky move.
When you put a graphic novel,you know, adapt a graphic novel
from a book because it's likemaking a movie.
There's a lot of stuff that'sgoing to be cut out and
condensed and stuff like thatLots of movies and stuff that
have been adapted into graphicnovels.
Usually the graphic novelsdon't do as well.
(13:00):
They're usually not very wellliked by fans of the originals.
Mari (13:03):
Yeah.
Kelly (13:04):
And that's why a lot of
times graphic novels tell a
story that's set in the sameuniverse or something like that,
rather than focus back on themain story and, you know,
readapt or adapt the main storyfor a graphic novel.
So it's kind of a risky movebut I'm sure, given the fan base
, I'm sure it will sell wellyeah right, yeah, we're sorry.
Mari (13:23):
I remember.
I remember after Firefly TVshow was canceled, where they
did the graphic novel, that waslike the origin stories of the
main characters, and I thoughtthat was a really good use of
like a graphic novel for a story.
Jonathan (13:39):
I think if it were
like and so I'm in no position
to make a decision for Mother,but I think if she called me up,
she were like and so I'm in noposition to make a decision for
mother, but I think if she, ifshe called me up, she's like hey
, jp, what do you think weshould do here?
I would say not this.
Instead, give us a authorized,a compendium.
Give us um more background intothe characters, more background
(14:09):
into the characters.
Um, you know, that's an easy,you can spitball some things.
You don't have the rightstories, but I mean how many?
Mari (14:13):
there's a lot of
characters that we just don't
have solid background on yeah,but I wonder, like the hard
thing about doing a compendiumor like an encyclopedia kind of
thing is there's still severalmore books to be told and
there's still things probablybeing hidden about the
characters.
(14:33):
Yeah, yeah, that would bedifficult to write in a
compendium without giving stuffaway, or after all, the rest of
the books are published, thenyou go back and the compendium's
outdated.
Jonathan (14:44):
You see what I mean
yeah, yeah, I also think like.
So I know I do think she'sbuilding the ship as as she
flies it, so we can get as weget into it.
I think she's bringing it 100oh, she says she's a plotter
interesting as we get into it,I'll I'll point, I'll point out
some things that, uh, I notice Idon't want to put the client
(15:04):
before the horse, all right.
Mari (15:05):
Last little bit of news,
then.
It's kind of another littlecombination of things.
Several Romanesie authors havedelayed or pushed back book
releases this year because ofmental health and physical
health concerns, and it got methinking.
Maybe we can discuss for alittle bit as a fandom, as a
Romanesie fantasy romance fandom.
Maybe we can discuss for alittle bit like as a fandom, as
(15:27):
a fantasy romance fandom, likeare we toxic?
Are we asking for too much?
Is the publishing industry, youknow, toxic with them?
Is it like are these authorsexpected to put on too many hats
and do too much?
Like it's not, like they couldjust write a book and that's it
they have to like then go outand do PR stuff and do social
media and sell this stuff.
(15:47):
Let me tell you what got methinking about it and then we
can go back to the question.
So, rebecca Yaros, she hasalready said that book four is
not going to be coming soon.
We know that she's going totake a bigger break between them
, because she wrote those firstthree books so fast that it was
just too much for her.
I was reading somewhere thatsaid it was like a 2027
(16:09):
potential release date, but then, when I tried to verify that.
Everything she said was thatshe wouldn't give a release date
and I think she wasn't evenexpected to start writing the
fourth book until after thissummer.
So it's going to be a bit.
And then, of course, sarah JMaas has nothing coming Like up
through 2026.
There's nothing new beingreleased for her, ak Kajiano,
(16:29):
who we just read the Villains ofVirtue series.
She had to reshuffle some ofher 2025.
Releases due to.
Like On her quote, a littlemental breakdown at the end of
2024.
Is how she worded it.
Sarah A Parker, at the end of2024.
It's how she worded it.
Um, sarah a parker, who wrotethe when the moon hatched has
(16:52):
released, has pushed back therelease of the sequel to that,
the ballad of falling dragons.
Instead of being october ofthis year, it's going to be
released february of next year.
So what do we think?
Jonathan (16:57):
I don't think we're
toxic.
I think a lot of it, so the itcould be.
The publishing industry itselfis toxic, not that we're.
I don't think it's us that'stoxic.
Ashley (17:06):
No, it's the fandom.
It's very much like a popculture kind of response, and so
I don't think this is just aRebecca problem.
I think the toxicity and itfeels like a very intense word,
so I see why you're reluctant touse it, but we heard it at the
panels when we went toRomanticyCon last fall, where
there's this overwhelmingexpectation for writers to just
(17:30):
force feed out these books, andpart of that is so that they can
afford their own lifestyles,right.
But someone like Abigail Owen,juliet Cross while now are
bigger-ish names a year or two,and I think a lot of what
they're doing is their ownpromotions on top of that.
Kelly (17:47):
So they're writing,
they're editing, there's a lot
of things at play with this.
It's not just the fans, it'snot just the publishing, it's a
combination of both.
The publishing industry hasbeen in a slump for a long time
and was dying.
Bookstores were dying.
Covid gave them a pause becauseeveryone started reading again.
Now bookstores didn't reallybenefit so much from that as
(18:09):
much as the publishing industrydid.
But who really benefited werethose independent authors that
were just pushing out the selfpublishing books because so many
people were just staying homeand just reading everything.
So self publishing on Kindle,which was already taking off,
just kind of accelerated duringCOVID.
So now you have this rise of anew genre essentially which it's
(18:30):
not new, but you essentiallyhave this rise of this genre all
of a sudden that's just sellinglike hotcakes.
So you have publishersdesperate to make money while
they can and try and grow thisgenre.
So they're putting pressure onthese authors to turn out books
right and the authors obviouslywant to make money.
But I think the publishingindustry is taking advantage of
(18:51):
a lot of these authors, becausethese authors had self-published
before, so they really didn'tmake much money at all and these
publishers went to them andoffered them a much better deal
than if they continued toself-publish, but still probably
not as a good deal as an authorwould have gotten, especially
an author that's selling as wellas Sarah J Maas probably would
(19:12):
have gotten before COVID, youknow, or even in the early 2000s
.
So it's a combination of that.
And then you have a fan basethat anytime something is really
popular, there's always goingto be a rabid fan base.
So it's a combination of all ofthese things.
You know the publishers tryingto grow what they have, trying
to make money, trying to pushthe authors and take advantage
(19:33):
of them.
Authors wanting to sell books,because authors obviously want
their books to sell.
They want people to read them,and so they're going to try and
put out as many books as theycan while they can.
So you have the authors doingeverything they can and pushing
themselves, and then the fansjust kind of antagonizing the
whole process.
So it's like a nice littleclosed negative feedback loop
(19:55):
where everything is feeding onitself, making it worse for
everyone.
Mari (20:11):
I, every time I get a
chance to do any sort of like
posts on these people's socialmedia not that I believe that
I'm actually talking to verymany or any of them, but any,
any authors or whatever they gothrough, that stuff I always
post on their, on their, ontheir feed or whatever.
When they say stuff like that,that like they need to take care
of themselves, and wheneverthey release whatever they're
going to release, we'll read it.
The people who want to readtheir stuff will read it
whenever they they publish itlike.
It's not.
Like if it doesn't getpublished this year, it goes bad
, has to be thrown away.
You know what I mean.
Like you write it, we'll readit.
(20:32):
All right, so we chose to readonyx storm um, because we'd all,
we all read it.
Like.
We read the first two books.
Of course, we're going to readthe third one.
Ashley (20:41):
When it came out, it was
published I was gonna say
choose feels very strong.
There was no choice for me thebook, the book chose us yeah,
the book chose us.
Mari (20:51):
Um, if only there were
dragons choosing us.
I'm just saying um, yeah,published january 21st 2025.
Um, we're going to be talkingspoilers for, like all, all the
Empyrean series books we're notgoing to be able to contain
ourselves so, yes, if you've notread, I don't know why you
(21:15):
would have read the third bookand not the first two.
But if that's the case, fyi, goback and read the first two,
because it'll all make moresense our strong opinion right,
right, um, okay, so let me readthe synopsis and then we'll get
into it.
After nearly 18 months atbasquiat war college, violet
soaringale knows there's no moretime for lessons, no more time
(21:37):
for uncertainty, because thebattle has truly begun and, with
enemies closing in from outsidetheir walls and within their
ranks, it's impossible to knowwho to trust.
Narvalet must journey beyondthe failing Orishian wards to
seek allies from unfamiliarlands to stand with Navarre.
The trip will test every bit ofher wit, luck and strength, but
she will do anything to savewhat she loves, her dragons, her
(21:58):
family, her home and him, evenif it means keeping a secret so
big it could destroy everything.
They need an army, they needpower, they need magic and they
need the one thing.
Only violet can find the truth.
But a storm is coming and noteveryone can survive its wrath.
Ashley (22:16):
I just got chills.
It's just a book, ashley likecalm down it's your emotional
baggage.
Mari (22:30):
Oh, what do we think of
overall rating?
Guys, here's the thing.
Ashley (22:36):
There's this trend on
tiktok right now and it's like I
said, it was five stars.
I didn't say it was a literarymasterpiece, but while there are
books that are both of thesethings, I have zero complaints
about this book.
I'm going to read it again.
I don't even need to rate it afour to know what, down the line
(22:59):
that you know my top tier levelis that I'm going to.
I'm going to read it.
We're going to gonna read allthree of these books again,
because by the time the fourthone comes out right, we're all
gonna need a refresher,refresher yeah, there we go.
This was a five for me.
I was entertained.
We, my husband and I,collectively sat in our places
(23:20):
in our, took off work the day ofrelease and read a book.
Jonathan (23:27):
In all fairness, we
didn't take off because of that
book.
We took off because I thought Iwas going to meet Hannah Nicole
Mayer that day.
Ashley (23:34):
Oh yeah, yes, it was
just a bonus that it all
happened on the same Tuesday.
We had all of our schedulesmessed up, but that's literally
what we did for six.
What six hours?
Yeah, six hours.
We read, and he finished beforeI did so this is.
This is not a literarymasterpiece by any means, like
(23:57):
we are not talking aboutanything new, but it was a five
star.
Mari (24:04):
So my story for the day it
came out is I had taken off
work because I knew.
And then the Summer ReadingClub, summer Reading Creations
Club, summer and Rebecca, who'vebeen on this podcast, were like
, hey, let's all get togetherand like, have a sleepover slash
, read over and just gettogether and read it.
So we were going to gettogether.
(24:25):
We had food, ordered cupcakes,I bought decorations, it was all
going to be here, we have ourair mattresses, we're just going
to read, just sit together andread.
And then there was a southernstorm and everything.
The roads were closed and theirkids schools were closed so
they had to stay home.
(24:46):
So we all had to read it homealone.
So I read it.
That first day too, kelly wasworking, um, but yeah, I got it,
I read it, it was good, whichis why because I read it so fast
, that's why I had to reread itfor today's podcast, because
there were things, things Imissed for sure.
But yeah, for me, same, it wasa five star.
(25:09):
It was a fun time.
It made me feel things, Ilaughed, I was sad, I was
surprised at the twists, it mademe think and I'm going to read
the next one.
So I don't know what elseanyone would want out of a book
of this genre and a book of this.
You know fun fantasy story.
Well, yeah, fun, fun being arelative a uh, a fun ride.
(25:35):
Overall, I put.
Jonathan (25:36):
That was five stars
for me it's gonna get the five
star treatment.
I think for me as well, butwith the and the same thing that
, um, it was not a masterpiece.
It's the.
She's clearly building the shipas she flies it.
This is an appeasement book.
It's not a.
It's not a book, it's.
It's, it's filler, it's fluff,it's world building, it's fluff,
(26:00):
how dare you?
Oh it's, it's big, big fluff,absolutely not big fluff?
Mari (26:03):
It's absolutely not fluff.
Jonathan (26:05):
If, if we turn the
volume up.
Ashley (26:07):
Let him have his opinion
.
Jonathan (26:08):
If we turn the volume
up on the podcast and she hears
it as we drive by her house, wecan impact the story.
I fully believe that, um, butit was also validating because,
like for for a year, I've beensaying if it's in print, it's in
play, and she proved it.
She basically just backed itall up and walked everything she
(26:33):
had publicly spoken about backI shouldn't say everything, but
a lot of things that sheEverything is extreme A lot of
things that she told her fanbase that she was ruling out,
she walked it back in the book.
So it was validating to see ifit's been printed in a book,
(26:57):
it's actively in play and standsas a theory to explore.
Yeah, so five stars, but again,it's keeping me quiet, for I
don't know if it'll keep mequiet for two years, but it'll
keep me quiet for six months.
Mari (27:10):
Kelly, what do you think?
Kelly (27:11):
I gave this book a three
and a half.
I think it advanced the plot alot more.
It set up things a lot more.
So this is I mean you're right.
It's basically doing someadditional world building, doing
some piece moving on the boardso that we can get closer to
whatever the end goal is for thestory arc.
So I enjoyed that a little bitmore.
(27:34):
There was still a lot of thesame crap that just annoys me
with these books, which is iftwo people would just sit down
and fucking talk to each other,you know honestly, then this
book would have been fourchapters.
Ashley (27:51):
They're just babies.
Jonathan (27:53):
The whole series could
have been one if it would have
just been a scribe.
Mari (27:57):
You know what?
Kelly (27:57):
So, I appreciate that we
have some plot development, we
have world building, we havepieces being moved around, but
it just still to me it did notgrab me, it didn't get me as
interested in this world.
I mean, honestly, I'm reallyonly reading the Imperium series
(28:23):
because of the podcast.
I wouldn't have read the secondone or the third one.
Jonathan (28:28):
You know what they say
happy podcast, happy life.
Mari (28:35):
You know what?
I would add, kelly, to what yousaid as far as, like, if two
people would just get togetherand have a conversation or
whatever, I would expand thatand I would say, like, add the
dragons as people, becausethere's so many times where I'm
just like the dragons have knownthis stuff and they could have
prevented so much if they wouldjust talk to their writers.
Kelly (28:53):
Not even everybody just
said hey, here's the deal on the
other seventh group of dragons,and here's the deal on what the
dragons really think about,what's going on.
And here's the all of thiswould have been solved All of
this.
Mari (29:05):
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
But you know, I wonder how muchof that is Rebecca Yarrow's
background in writing, as aromance author.
And I don't, I'm not a huge Iwouldn't say I'm a huge
aficionado of romance books.
I don't, I don't know like thebig staple people in the romance
genres, but I do know that inthe romance books I've read the
(29:26):
miscommunication trope is hugein the romance genre, like there
are entire stories thatwouldn't happen if the
miscommunicationmiscommunication.
Trope didn't exist not likeright in the midst of a war a
propaganda war?
Ashley (29:41):
no, like yeah.
So I mean not agreed that if,if there were better
communication, then but and Ithink zayden said something to
this effect, though in andforgive me because I don't
remember which book at all, buthe was like I'm never going to
be able to tell you 100 likethis.
We're in war, right.
(30:02):
So there are always going to besome level of secrets, and so I
think that's where we are withthe dragons.
What pisses me off about thedragons is that this is the
Empyrean series and I am stilllacking information about the
Empyrean.
I don't mind them keeping itfrom the humans in the book, but
outside of the book we needanswers.
But we're're gonna put thataside for right now to be
(30:25):
determined.
We're gonna pick on that onelater.
But I mean I I can understandthe dragons not divulging their
secrets to these.
You know, inferior, complicatedemotion run humans.
I think there's depth to codamelgrin's dragon, I think.
(30:45):
I think coda's gonna surpriseus all, I don't know when I hope
so but I think thatmotherfucker is gonna come back
and surprise us all.
I haven't made a decision aboutmelgrin just because we haven't
really been exposed to him too,too much, but I mean so, yeah,
there's gonna be secrecy,especially in a five book series
, it's gonna be drawn out.
(31:06):
I think the next book is gonnabe heart-wrenching.
I'm not emotionally ready forthat, but I mean for 20 year
olds with probably reallyterrible parents across the
board that were also put in thesame situations that they're
being put through.
They don't know any better.
Nobody taught them how tocommunicate.
(31:26):
The fucking war collegecertainly didn't do it dragons
are the bad guys it's right toit throw that right to it.
Jonathan (31:36):
Yeah, I just think the
dragons are the just randomly
throwing things out there.
Huh, guys um, okay, we haven'tlanded on it yet, as, it being,
like I think that's going tostart to pop out, like that's
going to be the painful point inbook four is that those come to
fruition Like yeah, you know, Idon't none of this is
(31:58):
substantiated, but it's likeSeventh Den's like yeah, we
peaced out because the otherdens are dicks.
Mari (32:06):
Like seventh dens like
yeah, we peaced out because the
other dens are dicks and theyhad that, they shaped their
bodies as weapons, and that'snot who we are, so we peaced out
, and we're, and they're I gottasay the ariads were one of the
things that made me feel in thisbook, and what I felt was
visceral hatred.
To be honest, I was so angry atthem.
Jonathan (32:26):
Explore that.
Mari (32:26):
Yes.
Jonathan (32:27):
Tell me, tell me, tell
me more about.
Say more Mari.
Mari (32:32):
Me.
Oh, the way they, okay, theyleft Andarna and she's supposed
to magically know what to do,even though they literally left
her with like no instructions.
And then they're like oh well,you suck, because you're not
worthy because I guess you'renot exactly what we wanted you
to be, and so we're going toturn our back on you from this
(32:52):
high and mighty tower ofprosperity and and just talk
about peace because we can haveit term they used for her abuse?
Ashley (33:00):
no, I don't remember
that she was the um, the oh yeah
, yeah, like the test case weleft you behind to see what
would happen in 500 years or athousand years or whatever the
case, to see if, if humanity haschanged no bitch, because
they're still at war.
(33:20):
And kudos for and to Andarna,for you know, calling them for
being on their high perch.
It's easy to to live in thismind space of peace when it's
all you've ever known and andthat goes without saying that we
don't know what happened in theoriginal stories, right, and I
forget how much time is left.
Was it like 500 years?
Is that what it was?
(33:41):
From what?
From when the Irid's left, fromwhen they were there the first
time?
Jonathan (33:46):
For when the original
six it was several hundred
Mother does not do a great jobof time management.
Ashley (33:54):
Well, and I think that's
part of the propaganda war
Something to explore later.
But I thought Andarna for beinga child literally a child she's
only a couple of years, a fewyears old was very intuitive and
empathetic to how she hadevolved to be what she and her
(34:14):
rider needed and how sheemulated the people and the
dragons that were around her sothat she could keep her family
safe.
She might have been the testpiece that was left behind, but
I think there's something to besaid for how she's developing
into her own as being the onlyone of her kind on the continent
(34:34):
.
So I thought that was reallyreally well done and I think we
needed to hate the irids alittle bit right so that we
could see andarna's development,especially for the quote
betrayal that was to come laterwho betrayed who, though?
Jonathan (34:50):
yeah, I think that's
to be seen, yeah I think maybe
it's possible that the for me, Ithink it's possible that the
dragons, the other dens,betrayed the seventh den and
somehow that message was lost.
They were like we're going toleave her here as peace, a
(35:11):
reminder of what we are.
Mari (35:12):
Yeah, like I'm sure that
what we're hearing is like the
whole his story, her story andthe truth, like we're hearing
sides and bits and pieces andI'm sure the truth is somewhere
out in left field that we mayget by the end of the books or
may have, you know, have topiece together.
So, all right, what do we thinkabout fantasy rating ash?
Ashley (35:33):
um, that hurt my brain.
Sorry, I couldn't even tell youwhy it's hurting my brain.
I I think I'm just trying tolike separate all of the books
in my head, I think from afantasy perspective, without
dabbling too deep into the worldbuilding side, because that's
its own category.
It was, it was a four for me.
(35:54):
I think we saw different magic.
I think we saw more individualsinvolved.
Right, good and bad.
Quote, unquote.
Um, and I was very interestedto learn the balance of the
magic in this book in a way thatwe had not really heard before.
(36:18):
So I that was very intriguingfrom a from a new learning
experience perspective for me.
Mari (36:28):
Yeah, I agree, for me it
was a five in fantasy, but the
reason I gave it a five was someof the same things you were
talking about.
I literally put that we learnedmore about the balance in magic
and in powers and how it playsin long-term.
We learn more about everyone'spower developing the whole world
(36:50):
expanded out.
Basically, we're learningeverything as Violet is learning
it, and I like when authors dothat in a multiple series book.
I think it's a great way ofbuilding out the world and
building out the magic andbuilding out the lore without
just doing a bunch of loredumping just in the beginning,
like you, as a reader arelearning as the main character
(37:10):
is learning.
Ashley (37:11):
Yeah, um, that was well,
and how we were not done
learning it either, right?
So like there isn't um averbatim explanation for why
violet could speak to herdragons outside of the continent
Nobody else could we have wecould theorize on it, right,
especially considering thesecond signet.
(37:31):
But I mean there's the, theanswers.
We haven't gotten all theanswers yet by any means.
There's definitely and veryobviously more to come.
So we're all just like on thehook it's.
It doesn't have to be baited,it's just a real ascent rebecca,
take us, take us home fantasyfantasy.
Jonathan (37:56):
It's again I.
It left me wanting more.
Ashley (38:01):
Still gonna get a five
that's high praise, but it left
me one.
It left me wanting more there,so I'm going to get a five.
Jonathan (38:04):
That's high praise,
but it it left me one.
It left me wanting more.
There wasn't enough answered,there wasn't.
You know I'm I'm strung along,I'm an addict trying to try to
get more of this drug and it'sjust, it's just wisps of it, but
not toxic at all, right.
Um at all right um she's toxicto me, um, but not the other way
around.
(38:24):
Yeah, I mean, I'm not chasingafter her, uh, but at the end of
the day it was, it was all, butit was also like a.
It was like a flimsy drug.
It wasn't there, wasn't the.
The hints were there.
The substance wasn't burned offreal quick, it burned off super
quick.
So like uh.
An example of this is the ummark.
(38:46):
One second signets.
What amounted to what waspresented as being a printing
error was then all of a suddenpart of the story.
Now, I I never once ruled itout.
It's in print and it's in play,but that's one of the things
that was like oh, it wasn't anaha or an I gotcha and I told
you so moment, it just felt likea convenient fix.
(39:09):
And it gave me a fix like oh,like a brilliant mistake.
Ashley (39:15):
Yeah, it was a brilliant
.
Jonathan (39:16):
Yeah, exactly, it was
a happy tree.
Happy accident, a happy tree,yeah, yeah, one of those things
and or even just like so, andthis is the unique thing about
authors compared to otherartists is that if I want to
influence Taylor Swift, it's notgoing to happen.
(39:39):
I'm not going to.
My voice isn't loud enough, ourvoice isn't loud enough.
It's not going to happen.
I'm not going to.
My voice isn't loud enough, ourvoice isn't loud enough.
But, for some reason, for anauthor, if we pick on on a topic
and we kind of twist the screwsa little bit, they're going to
reply.
They're going to respond.
Um, so somebody like Rebecca,who has 1.4 million or 1.2
million followers on Instagram,for her to be impacted by
(40:03):
everybody saying, hey, what's upwith?
Why was Liam wielding ice, youknow?
Or man, you know what I'dreally like to know after two
books by his dad's name, youknow, all of a sudden, we're
getting those things and we'restill not.
We're still leaving doors open.
So, fantasy, I'm getting that.
That medium fix, a flimsy fixthat's dragging me along.
(40:27):
Um, I'm, I'm not.
I don't dislike it, it's just,it's, it's not as is.
I don't even know if there's aword substantive, substan maybe.
Maybe I want to say substantial, I don't know.
Mari (40:45):
Yeah, substantial.
Jonathan (40:49):
I need more meat.
Mother, Feed me, Kelly.
What did you think?
Kelly (40:54):
I like how you went.
I didn't hate it.
It just wasn't substantial, butstill a five.
Jonathan (41:02):
Yeah, thank you, I
appreciate that.
Kelly (41:06):
He worked hard on it.
I I gave the fantasy a threebecause I think we had some
interesting expansion of theworld, some introduction of some
new stuff, but a lot of it wasvery one dimensional.
The Irid were very onedimensional.
Some of the people weencountered on the islands were
very one-dimensional, made tojust be one-dimensional enemies.
(41:31):
More fleshed out.
It feels more like a specificfantasy setting rather than
something that's just kind of amishmash of Pern.
So overall I think it was athree.
(41:52):
I think it's an improvementfrom the other books, but still
not, in my opinion, a five.
Ashley (42:00):
Your standards are high,
sir.
You've done more reading thanthe rest of us.
I'm entertained.
He likes a good wine.
Jonathan (42:10):
When he uncorks it, he
has to have a good bouquet.
Ashley (42:14):
Forgive me, I was not
judging.
I was merely letting ourlisteners know that my ratings
are on entertainment.
Are we coming back for more?
Yes, sign me up.
We were in line.
We were in line for this book.
My ratings are on entertainmentright Like.
Are we coming back for more?
Yes, sign me up.
We were in line.
We were in line for this book.
When have you ever stood inline?
Jonathan (42:31):
I don't stand in lines
.
No, jonathan's standards arelow, yeah, how fast.
Ashley (42:40):
Can Amazon deliver this
to us?
You know what I mean.
Jonathan (42:54):
We stood in line for
the possibility of this special
edition of this book at Target,a store he hates and has written
off of the books of ourhousehold.
Let me just say this I'm atrendsetter.
We wrote off Target and bannedTarget from our household way
before all these other bandwagonjumpers did.
Ashley (43:07):
Yes, I.
Jonathan (43:08):
I feel like I
triggered that movement.
Um, probably, uh no, but I'dlike good job, kelly, I love
this for you.
Ashley (43:17):
I love that.
It's just a basic standard foryou.
Like a three, I feel like it'shigh praise for the caliber of
reading that we're doing.
Kelly (43:25):
Right, but like a three.
I feel like it's high praisefor the caliber of reading that
we're doing.
But it's not just entertainment.
It's that the fantasy world hasto feel like there was thought
behind it, like it wasn't justmashed together at the last
minute and being written on thefly.
I appreciate it when a fantasysetting feels like it's
well-developed, like to me,harry Potter is actually not a
great fantasy setting becausethere's so many things in the
(43:49):
world, in that fantasy world,that make absolutely no sense,
that contradict itself, you know, and things like that.
And that's a perfect example ofan author adding stuff on the
fly.
You know, we've never heard ofthe tale of the three brothers
until it was important in thelast book.
You know, things like that.
Things only got learned aboutwhen it was important.
(44:11):
So it was kind of yeah, that's,that's an author throwing
things together at the lastminute, which is fine.
That worked for harry potter, Iguess, but as far as the
quality of the fantasy world, itjust wasn't very good.
Mari (44:25):
So, jonathan, do you think
that the whole Liam thing that
she retconned that what is shebasically?
Like People are like oh, here'san error, Like, oh, well,
here's an error.
And then so after she went backand like wrote it into the
storyline.
Jonathan (44:41):
Yeah, retcon is
retroactive continuity change.
Yeah, absolutely I think it'sretroactive continuity change.
Mari (44:45):
but also she got peer
pressure's a bitch what do we
think about the romance and whatare we rating the romance?
Ashley (44:53):
I wasn't ready.
I couldn't tell you why Iwasn't ready um, I thought there
was a lot of growth again, youknow, for their age, for their,
for their fucked up upbringings,I think they did a lot for
themselves in a very shortamount of time.
Even though we're talking aboutbook number three, not a ton of
(45:15):
time has lapsed.
So I was a fan.
I thought, you know, we got alittle bit more out of it.
Mari (45:36):
I thought we saw growth
with them independently as well
as a couple.
So it was a four for me,without it being a relationship
breaker.
Like at one point Zayden sayswe're beyond the breakup stage,
you know they're learning whichis it's true and it's they're
learning to adult together inhorrible circumstances.
Like I think it's.
It's well done For yeah, fivefor me.
Jonathan (45:59):
I mean I'm still gonna
give it a five but, like,
realistically, this is the worstrelationship I've ever been in.
Like, this is a.
This is a shitty relationship,right?
So yeah, like there, there's somany, so many things are
happening all at the same time.
Now we've got both of them haveexes involved that they have to
(46:21):
deal with.
There's some, um, jealousyrears its ugly head again, but
on on the zayden side of things,and you know, there's, there's
just, and then, meeting thein-laws, he's like this is this
is just.
It's interesting.
(46:41):
I, I was caught off guard withsome of that stuff.
Um, which part were you caught,mom?
mom, yeah, mommy, shadow mommy Iwas.
I was really caught off guard.
That happened too fast for me Ithought it would be interesting
to see her play a differentrole than what she played.
I think she just kind of likeit was weak sauce.
Mari (47:05):
Not all humans are great,
but were you, what were you
thinking she or what were youwanting her to?
Jonathan (47:10):
play.
I wanted a sibling.
I wanted her to have a findlove and have a relationship
with where she grew, where shehad a family.
But I wanted his mother to be,uh, part of part of the part,
(47:30):
part of the adversary.
But part of the solution atsolution same time.
That's not.
That was ashley's foot.
That was not her it was not herbooty that sound effect.
Turn on the mic um the.
I wanted her to be like part ofthe Flyers, you know, like
something in that area, peromishin nature.
I wanted more drama, but Iwanted her to be.
Ashley (47:53):
She was a regular person
.
Jonathan (47:54):
Yeah, and I wanted a
sibling.
It let me down.
I wanted her.
Well, she was a dick and Iwanted.
Mari (48:01):
She was a dick.
Jonathan (48:02):
I wanted the sibling
to play a better part.
I'm glad that they wereleveraged, don't get me wrong.
I'm glad that they were likeyeah, but I'm also disappointed.
Who didn't see the cake coming?
I saw the cake coming.
I'm no dumbass.
I'm not putting this thing inmy mouth first, you're crazy,
you didn't see the cake coming.
Yeah, that bugged the fuck outof me.
Mari (48:22):
I did not see the cake
coming.
I was not looking for the cake,man don't be shit.
I was focused on what a crappymother he had who would feed her
child chocolate cake on hisbirthday.
And then peace out for the restof his life.
Ashley (48:39):
Kudos to Violet for that
.
I did see the poison cakecoming here's the thing If
Violet hasn that?
Jonathan (48:44):
I did see the poison
cake coming.
Yeah, I guess here's the thingIf Violet hasn't learned since
day one to or sorry, not day one, was it?
Well, yeah, day one.
Violet's been poisoning foodsince book one, so Violet
poisoned food.
Then Violet got poisoned bydrink in book two, and now here
(49:04):
we are in book three and we'restill using food.
Yeah, just you know, maybe youyou need a taster.
I think the relationship isboys.
It grows, but boys take afucking turn.
Um, um, shitty decisions are onthe horizon.
Kelly, where do you think ofromance?
Kelly (49:25):
I gave the romance a
three Because, while it did seem
like they had matured in someaspects of their romance, again
we have two books where theykept secrets from each other and
should have learned that theyshouldn't keep secrets from each
other.
And we're still keeping secretsfrom each other.
So what kind of romance is that?
Ashley (49:48):
A baby one.
They're just babies.
Mari (49:54):
They're just a baby Spice.
What do we think about thespice?
I thought we had some spice inthis book.
Ashley (50:07):
I was not mad at the
spice at all.
Yeah, it was.
It was a five.
I have zero complaints aboutthe spice.
We got to break some tables.
We had more trust in each otherin this book.
They were willing to give shitup for each other.
Yeah, there was jealousy, whichisn't healthy, but it's nice.
(50:27):
It was a five for me.
Mari (50:30):
I was appropriate spice
yeah, I gave it five stars for
spice as well.
Um, book two is still myfavorite of the three for spice
that was.
But I thought the spice stuffin this book three was not.
So by the the end of this we'regoing to have a girl group or a
boy band at the end of allseven books and each of them is
(50:50):
going to be a certain spice.
It's going to be the new, thenew spice peeps.
For me it was well done becauseof some of the things they had
to work through and I felt likethe spicy scenes and the sex
scenes were put in there in away that it didn't feel like, oh
, it's time for a sex scene.
(51:11):
It felt like they were actuallyusing it to like Rebecca was
actually using it to emotionallyramp up the story and what's
going on and getting them tofeel more and remember what's at
stake.
So, yeah, for me it was welldone.
It's a five.
Jonathan (51:28):
I'm still going to
give it a five.
But there was, you know, itscored a 67% on the calculator.
Ashley (51:38):
Oh, that's pretty high.
Jonathan (51:38):
It's pretty high.
Some of that was she got busyquickly, no mention whatsoever
of what happened 24 hours, 48hours before.
No, like nobody cared thatthere was a fucking all out war
and their whole world got turnedupside down.
Yeah, but within that first 20%of the book or so, there
(52:01):
might've been like chapter two.
They were fucking um, which waswhich was interesting?
Um, healing, yeah, oh, is thatwhat it is?
Mari (52:09):
yeah, music if like it's
giving me I'm trying to remember
, guys, that what that is isn'tthere like a song, sexual
healing or something?
Jonathan (52:21):
that's the name of the
game.
Yeah, I, they were definitely.
Somebody was doing the bridge,somebody was on all fours.
Um, it was more, there was morethought of.
So it felt like in books one andtwo that sexy time was
basically a filler.
Like you, if you were going toredact books one and two, all
(52:42):
you had to know was where, wherespice happens and you can just
block out that whole chapter.
It still feels like that, butthere's more of it.
The only, my only, takeawayhere is that, or my only like,
if I had a, if I was, if I wasgoing to take points away I'm
not, if I was going to takepoints away, it would be uh,
(53:05):
they, she.
It's stated early on in thebook that title trump's rank,
but they had to wait till theygot on the road, till he was
like you mean, I'm not aprofessor today, get over here,
baby.
Like, if title trump's rank,then just be like I'm nobility,
pound salt, I'm gonna pound topound her Figure.
That one out a little sooner,kind of thing.
(53:27):
Other than that, it's aboveaverage spice.
Mari (53:32):
Do we think it's a kissing
book?
Yes, absolutely.
Ashley (53:37):
I don't know Shoot your
face, I'm going to give it a
five, but I don't know I'm goingto give it a five, but I don't
know.
Jonathan (53:44):
Here's why I don't
know.
Give it a five, but I don'tknow.
Here's.
Here's why I don't know it.
There's nobody, there's nomemory at the end of the box I
mean, yeah, there is, there'splenty of memory.
Mari (53:54):
just because that one
event you know was taken, was
taken out for now, or whatever,doesn't mean that everything
else didn't happen andeverything else leading up to it
didn't happen.
And if Violet didn't loveZayden the way she loves him,
(54:14):
she wouldn't have defended himfrom everybody.
He would have just beendestroyed as a Venon, or he
would have been found out as aVenon and then had to leave,
like it would be a totallydifferent book, or he would have
been killed early on.
He would have been killed earlyon.
He would have been treated likeanybody else who turns Venom.
Jonathan (54:29):
I wish, I wish there
was some way For one of their
close companions To Read hermind and maybe unlock what
happened.
Ashley (54:42):
I don't think what
happened Is required.
I want to know what happenedthat.
I don't think what happened isis required.
Jonathan (54:46):
I want to know what.
No, I want to know whathappened I don't think what
happened is there.
Mari (54:50):
I think imogen wiped it.
I don't think dane can read it.
I want to know, what happened.
Ashley (54:54):
Oh yeah, can you even
read something that's been wiped
out, erased?
I?
Jonathan (54:58):
don't know.
All I know is that.
Ashley (55:00):
All I know is that if
you want to know what happened.
They got married I want.
Jonathan (55:04):
We don't know that.
We have hints.
Ashley (55:08):
No, we have a
certificate signed by the ladies
from the temple.
There's your proof.
Jonathan (55:17):
How many times in the
book did you feel like she was
hinting at Liam being alive?
Mari (55:24):
Not many, to be honest
don't think liam is alive.
Jonathan (55:27):
I really don't.
So when you said not many, thatmeant I know, I think I think a
lot of people want liam to bealive.
Mari (55:34):
I I didn't now, I wasn't
particularly looking for it
because I'm not like.
I think I think he was a greatcharacter and I think that you
know we liked him and he washonorable, and that the final
like it's been my honor is a aknife twisted in the heart and I
don't think that, um, you canbuild on that emotional
(55:57):
perfection.
Uh, I think coming back is justnot gonna do anything I'm gonna
agree with you there and I will.
Ashley (56:04):
And I want to circle
back on something that you said
earlier about not really, um,you know, like knowing too much
of rebecca's like romancewriting style.
Here's the thing rebecca willkill a bitch, rebecca will kill
a main character and in factyeah, spoiler for one book she
will kill a kid.
(56:24):
So we're I'm just gonna putthat out she's going to rip our
hearts out.
Mari (56:29):
Okay, this is not and she
said multiple times it's war, no
one is safe.
Ashley (56:34):
So she's, and so the,
the fault, the, the comeback to
that is that she killed liamwith intention.
She did not feel that thischaracter could develop any
further.
But to Jonathan's point,because here's, here's, I can
see the eyes he's making at me.
You guys can't see it Causehe's hiding something you don't
(56:54):
know.
There's no body there.
We are getting conflictingstories of what happened to Liam
after his quote death.
Rebecca is on record, if I'mnot mistaken, and it's very
possible that I am, but she ison record to say liam died.
Do you know who else died?
hold on jack jack freakingbarlow brennan her dad violets
(57:18):
almost died, like her dad's,maybe probably dead mirrors
almost died.
Mari (57:24):
We'll see any other
theories you want to talk about
before we wrap it up.
Jonathan (57:26):
What was with her?
You saw somebody with silverhair and you didn't think.
You didn't ask more questions.
Ashley (57:33):
Yeah, I would have made
time for that.
Well, she was fighting for herlife at that point.
When they were traveling.
Let's make some time for this.
Jonathan (57:39):
Tell me more.
Let's just get some tea.
Mari (57:42):
Are we ready to wrap up
the book?
Talk about this particular book.
So March is Women's HistoryMonth and most of our
Romanticity authors are women,so we don't necessarily need to
highlight women in particular inthe Romanticity genre, but I
did want to highlight a book Iread recently and, if anyone
wants to bring up anything elsein women's history or something
(58:02):
else to recommend, but Irecently read the book the lady
from the black lagoon by malloryo'meara and it's a story of.
It's a.
It's a non-fiction book.
It's a story of millicentpatrick, who was one of disney's
first female animators andshe's the only woman to create
one of one of the universalmonster, hollywood's classic
monster.
She designed the, the gill man,the creature from Black Luguli.
Ashley (58:24):
That would have been a
woman.
Mari (58:25):
It's a really good read
Nice nice.
Yeah, it was a fun read.
It was well done, it was wellwritten and it was an
interesting story to find outabout it and I would recommend
that Any other women's historystuff anybody wants to bring up.
Ashley (58:37):
I got nothing.
Mari (58:38):
Okay, so thanks for
listening to Mates.
Before we go, make sure tocheck out the show notes, rate
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(58:58):
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(59:19):
You can follow us and interactwith us there.
And last but not least, whatFollow us and interact with us
there?
And, last but not least, whatI'm very excited about I've been
waiting for we hope you'll joinus in two weeks for our next
episode, where we will bediscussing Throne of Glass by
Sarah J Maas.
Jonathan (59:33):
I'm excited, thank you
.