December 9, 2025 • 43 mins
Most tradesmen are still running their business like it’s 1998 — paper pads, handwritten diaries, random receipts stuffed in glove boxes, and customers slipping through the cracks.
Meanwhile, the lads using proper systems are pulling ahead FAST… building better reputations, charging more, and scaling with half the stress.
In this episode, Wayne & Andy rip into the truth:
If you don’t have solid systems, you don’t have a business.
You’ve just got a job… and a stressful one.
This episode breaks down:
🔥 Why job management systems are now essential in 2025
🔥 The four systems every serious trade business MUST have
🔥 Why using paper, pads and “memory” is costing you thousands
🔥 How systems instantly boost your professionalism
🔥 The #1 reason tradesmen lose customers (and how to stop it)
🔥 The truth about reminders, reviews, quotes & invoicing
🔥 How automations can replace hours of boring admin
🔥 Why systems help you CHARGE more
🔥 The real reason one-man bands resist tech
🔥 How Wayne & Andy built 1,000+ reviews using systems alone
🔥 A full breakdown of a real customer journey — automated end-to-end
PLUS:
Wayne shares the exact process his business uses to run breakdowns, reminders, reviews, invoicing, payment chasing and follow-ups without lifting a finger.
Andy explains how systems allowed him to scale quickly, manage engineers properly, and stop drowning in manual admin.
If you’re grafting nonstop but still feel disorganised…
If your diary is chaos…
If you keep “meaning to” send quotes, chase invoices or ask for reviews…
If customers fall through the net…
This episode will change everything.
Systems aren’t a cost.
They’re the engine.
And if you don’t build it, your competitors will leave you behind.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:12):
And we're back with another episode of the Off the Tools
podcast with myself, Wayne and Andy Jones.
How are we doing? We are good.
We are good. Good, good.
Another one with a big in my opinion, a big topic and
something that is massively, massively, massively
(00:35):
underutilised in the antiquated trade game of the UK.
Definitely. And that subject is systems.
So this will probably be, again one that we keep coming back to.
There's probably going to be lots of discussions around
systems, but we have to start somewhere.
(00:56):
So I'll give you what I feel systems are.
You know, there's two sides to systems in my opinion.
There's the technical side, which is like on the computers
and and things like that. And then there's like your
internal processes, which are sort of mechanical systems.
(01:16):
Today I want to focus on technology really more than more
than sort of processes side of it.
In this day and age. There is no excuses for not
using systems. I'm pretty sure 99.9% or a
little cameo from my wife bringing me a cup of tea.
She's on camera. There's no there's no excuses
(01:41):
not to be using systems. And the chances are 99.9% of you
are using systems in some way, whether it be an e-mail system,
I'm guessing every business accepts e-mail, whether you're
sending text messaging, that's asystem, right?
That's all base level, entry level, obvious things.
(02:02):
What I want to talk about is thebusiness systems that start to
propel your business, make it professional, starts to build
value in the customer's eyes, right?
And it makes logical sense to sort of give a little bit of
context around where I'm going with this.
So in my eyes, there are 4 fundamental technology systems
(02:26):
that everybody should be using if they want to build a
business, not just have a job. And that starts with lead and
sales management at the beginning.
OK, then job management, then quotation and sales software and
then accounting software at the end.
(02:47):
In my eyes though, those are as important as having a van and
having tools. In my eyes they are.
If we looked at this as a traditional shop, they are your
shop and your front desk and your till.
You know, these are things that no shop would open up without a
shop or without a way to take payments or without a way to
(03:10):
sell those products. These are the fundamentals.
And I think naturally, you know,we won't go too technical today.
I think if we focus around job management systems, because it's
really the first level that mostpeople will dip their toe into,
(03:31):
there's lots of different types of job management systems out
there. I've got no notes here, so I'm
just working off the cuff, but to name some popular ones,
you've got likes of Gas EngineerSoftware, Tradify, Commusoft,
Service May SIM Pro, there's Payaka there, there's loads,
(03:53):
there's loads more, there's, there's, there's always new ones
being developed. But fundamentally those are
probably what the, the, the mainones that most people will have
heard of in some capacity. Those that have followed off the
tools for a while will, will know that service Mate is our
preferred software. That said, a lot of members in
(04:14):
the group use alternatives. So it's not, we're not, we're
not a cult for service Mate. We are official partners with
service Mates, so we can help you develop that system, but we
also work on all of the other systems and, and, and appreciate
that every business is slightly different and the needs and the
requirements don't always match just one software.
(04:37):
So when I'm talking and, and talking about systems, service
Mate will be my natural tongue, so to speak, because it's what
I've used for coming up, coming close to a nearly a decade.
I would say, don't know precisely.
I think it was 20, 15/16/17 times somewhere around there.
(04:57):
But for me, the importance of having a job management when
there's there's many, many reasons why you should be using
a job management system at the very base level.
It's just keeping hold of customers data, you know, just
making sure that you're logging names, addresses, emails and
then going further from that. You're obviously creating
(05:19):
invoices, taking payments, communicating with the customer,
and then obviously further on top of that, we start looking at
automations and improving that customer journey through
reminders, review collection andthe list can go on.
There's so, so many variables toit, but it all starts somewhere,
(05:43):
you know and, and whether you'reusing pen and paper at the
moment, you know, or whether youare using gas engineer.
Software or whether you're using.
Service name, you know, the system becomes the heart, the
beating heart of the business. And if you have aspirations to
build a business rather than a job, then having a system at the
(06:03):
core of the business is fundamental.
Would you agree, Andy? Yeah, definitely.
I think it's within that in my opinion is a necessity in 2025
because what? And again, this is something
that I've, I've tracked the dataon and I'll give you a bit of a
(06:28):
scenario. Let's say you're self-employed.
You don't have a system in placeto manage service reminders.
Just as one example, you might have it written down and that
requires you to then manually doit and ring out to that
customer. If you miss that for whatever
(06:53):
reason, because it isn't automated and done through the
job management software, that customer may ring you.
They may or may not ring you. They may forget who you were.
They will ring someone else and for example, if they ring a
company that uses the job management software, the
likelihood is you will have lostthat customer then forever
(07:15):
because they will start to experience not only a new level
of value through that software, but that software will work to
keep that customer through reminders of things like that so
they won't slip through the net.That's something I've spoke to a
lot of lads about. They'll realise a month later,
(07:36):
oh this, this customer, I was meant to ring them and I don't
believe you can wait for customers to ring you anymore.
When it comes to something like a reminder boiler service, I
don't think customers you can expect that of customers
anymore. You need to be keeping them in
the loop. So that's just one example.
(07:57):
The the annual service reminders.
I don't know a lot of the basic softwares do that like GES
doesn't have to be service mate,but that was just something that
I again, from from conversationsI've had the most guys first
foray into software is often because of that, isn't it?
(08:17):
It's data capture storage And then if you're that your
business denotes any kind of recurring work, whether it be
ATP 12 or boiler service from the gas world or an EICR for a
spark, something like that everyfive years.
(08:38):
So it did you need something in place.
So that's usually the first dipping of the tow into the
water, isn't it? Yeah, it, it, it started with
certificates, didn't it? I think that was really like
having it, having the, the digital certificates like stored
somewhere rather than writing itdown on pads and stuff was
really like the, the birth of job management, wasn't it?
(09:00):
Certainly was my first foray into, into systems back in the
day. It was just to get, get it, get
things a bit more organised. And when you work on your own,
you could often look at these sort of systems and think, yeah,
why do I really need it? You know, I'm quite happy
writing it down in a paper diaryand filling out the, the, the
(09:22):
carbon coffee pad. And in a way I, I can see why,
you know, you're in your comfortzone, you're used to it.
It's worked up till now. But when you now bring in that
new expectation, you know, of the customer tech 15 years ago
was down here. The new expectation of customers
is up here. Everyone's busy.
(09:43):
Everyone has lots going on in their lives.
They they expect more like Andy mentioned, Amazon drive, like
Amazon deliveries on a previous episode.
You know, you expect to be kept in the loop, don't you, of
what's happening when things aredue and that expectation just
keeps rising. So without a system at the heart
(10:06):
and obviously in my case and in your case in many cases it's
service mate, it's going to be very, very difficult to to push
on. And those that work for
themselves and work just just them at the minute like a one
man band in a van. In the short term, yes, there is
a bit of a headache. You know, I'm not going to dress
it up. There's there's a bit of cost
(10:28):
involved if you want to get it professionally set up or there's
a time element if you're going to try and set it up yourself.
But there's also a day-to-day drag at first because you're
doing something that you wasn't used to.
So the first month, two months is where we see, we see a lot of
people sign up a month, one month 2 and then a lot of people
(10:49):
drop off from using the system and 99% of those are one man
bands. And it's because they didn't
embrace and and ride the learning curve, if that makes
sense. Once people get through that
first couple of months, they quickly realise it's actually
easier to have my calendar on anapp on the phone.
(11:10):
It's actually easier for me to bang the customer details in
and, and have it stored because then next time they ring, it's
all there. I don't have to write it down
again. And it also works on a personal
level as well, because once you have a digital calendar, for
example, you can, your, your, your wife can, can know when
you're available or when you're not.
And, and, and it just adds benefit to, to everything, but
(11:34):
that learning curve can cause does, doesn't count.
It definitely does 'cause peopleto stop pursuing that growth and
then they revert back to type and go back to paperwork and,
and then wonder why in three years time, nothing's changed.
So that's a fundamental thing that you've got to, you've got
(11:55):
to go through it. You know, when you ride a bike,
it's very rare that you will just get on a bike and ride it,
you know, without falling off. When you're a kid or at whatever
age you learn to ride, you know,there is a learning curve.
You're going to, you're going tosmash your knee on on the pedal,
you're going to fall off, You'regoing to, you're going to press
the wrong brake and go over the handlebars.
You know, it doesn't stop you from carrying on and getting
(12:15):
through that. But if you have serious, serious
aspirations to not, I don't even, I'm, I'm not even talking
about growing into a big business.
If you have aspirations to make your life easier, be more
professional, charge more, builda better reputation, you know,
(12:38):
then a system is a no brainer. There is really no excuses in
today's world not to have one. And what, what would you say
when you first come come to me, Andy, those few years ago, you
weren't using anything really. I think you were, was you doing
certificates on gas engineering,I think, or was you not even
(13:01):
doing that? No.
So, So what would what was the, what was the hardest part of
transitioning, transitioning into a systemized system for
you? I suppose it was say a mistake I
made as well as even though I'm now I'm pretty good at building
(13:24):
software now, at the time I wasn't.
I was also busy at the time. I made the mistake of trying to
build it myself. That was one, one thing and this
that's a bit of a common theme for the lads.
They they make the mistake of, of trying to build it themselves
and maybe don't look at again. We spoke about pricing in the
(13:45):
last one, but well, actually this is going to take me days on
end to build and be better just outsourcing it and carrying on
working. So that can be a bit off putting
when people, again, unless you service me as an example,
they'll have a go at the free trial and go, this is too much
this, I'm not sure what I'm doing.
So that's that was the thing forme.
(14:08):
It was once it was live because I'd already done it, always done
it in such an old school way. And again, I used to do a lot of
emergency call outs. So I used to have a little paper
pad and all that could, all I could do was signature on
arrival brief of the job and then a signature when I was
done. And that was easier.
(14:32):
And to describe that and do that.
It was only once we started using service mate where
actually that can be done all automated now.
So it knows when, whether it's you or one of your engineers, it
knows when they've arrived on site.
For example, you can do a job report with pictures and what
you've done and then obviously you can tell it tells you the
(14:54):
logout time as well. So just to to lean into the
pricing side of things about youand we spoke about bringing
value, a system has to be there for you to be able to increase
your pricing. It has to be done as part of the
natural evolution of the business and it can't be just
viewed as a benefit to the business itself.
(15:17):
And of course it is. That's kind of its primary
function really. However, it also by, as a
byproduct of that, it brings more value to the customer.
Again, you use the the Amazon Prime analogy that I mentioned
because it it keeps the customers in the loop, things
like that. So a really good conversation
we've had with some of the lads in Alliance when they started
(15:39):
using it as some of them maybe weren't charging for a fault
find, whether it's again, spark or or gas engine or whatever,
you'd go out and not charge for a fault find because they
struggled to see how they could construct that.
Or maybe they were only charginga little bit because it's not
took them that long rather than being strict with their hourly
(15:59):
rate. With something like a job
management software on top of all the stuff about keeping them
in the loop, that job report then becomes your the weight
behind something like a fault find because everything then
becomes itemised within it, stored, it protects the business
(16:19):
and the customer gets a copy. So that awkward conversation
that everyone's probably had at some point of what I'm actually
paying for, all you're doing is telling me what's wrong with it.
So you're paying for a fault find, diagnostics visit.
That includes a digital job report and here it is kind of
thing. That's one thing that has been a
common conversation within the alliance when it's it's started
(16:41):
with or I can increase my prices.
It's let's get your job management software up to speed
and then you use that as part ofthe value package, let's call it
when you bring to the customer. So yeah, I think there's a lot
of viewing of it or I don't wantto like again, you spoke about
investment. A very common conversation on
(17:02):
the online forums is, well, I don't want, I'm not paying that
much for that because all it's then see that viewed as is like
a diary thing or all of this is a glorified diary.
Why would I spend, you know, ÂŁ100 a month or whatever it is
on that? But it's just so much more,
isn't it? And that's.
(17:22):
The that's the. Thing that gets me.
It shouldn't. It's not a cost, it's an
investment because it will generate you money either
directly or indirectly, either generate you a better
reputation. It will generate you extra time
because you're now organised it.But it can also be used to to to
(17:44):
get work and bring money in directly.
And then when you then start thefactor in that if you're going
to take on someone to answer your phones, for example, or
something like that, it it's then a no break.
It's then it's not even negotiable at that point, is it?
Because there has to be that centralised hub to the system.
Have you used any other job management systems or with
(18:06):
service Mate you're sort of likefirst proper one and you've sort
of just stuck with that since? Yeah.
Again, when I built the heating business, as you said, it was
from an absolute Ground Zero point and I was that so much of
the things that we've spoke about, I was virtually a full
(18:27):
time subcontractor save the 1516customers that I had that I've
done for myself that were probably local customers.
And I was still using paper for CP twelves.
I was still using a paper diary.I was still writing bits down.
I was still, you know, keeping my receipts in a bag and
(18:49):
dropping them off for the accounting at the end of the
year in a big scruffy bag. So I had absolutely nothing.
So that was my first foray. I'd seen some of lads that I
knew who'd used gas engineer software and my best mate uses
his business, uses Tradeify. But it was only when you give me
(19:11):
a demo on Don service mate, I was like, yeah, this is this is
the shit. Like, yeah.
And that seems to be the consensus.
And the thing with softwares as well is as the popularity grows
and more people use the softwareand then pay the subscription
providing the companies run well, which service mate is,
(19:34):
then that fuels the growth the the upgrade, let's call it the
software itself. And service mates gets
progressively better and better each year as it does it does its
upgrades and it's for me it is the best piece of software.
I'll slightly vary it and say there isn't 1 perfect piece of
(19:59):
software. That's some sort of income you
soft that service mate doesn't have.
But. If you had to choose one that
was the market leader for a domestic business where you're,
you've not got more than 30 members of staff service mate is
is the go to and that that applies whether it's just you on
(20:21):
your own. We've got lots of lads in the
group who it's just them on their own isn't it?
You service mate and they're like.
Fuck about this years ago. That same thing.
I wish I got this years ago, youknow, my business would be so
much further along. You'd have more reviews, you'd
have better attention, you know,you know, you wouldn't have lost
many customers and things like that.
(20:42):
So yeah, it's always, in my opinion, the the, the first step
forward after coaching of course, is to get a job
management software. Yeah.
And then you mentioned obviouslycoaching there, but that's very
important. Part of a system as well is, is
having the right people around you that that can help you with
(21:05):
it. Hope you understand how to use
it, what to use it for, which again, you know, a little
shameless plug here for Alliance, but that is part of
what we do at Alliance, isn't it?
It's, it's that support network that, that, that level of
expertise. That is not just me and you, you
know, it's the other labs in thegroup that that are seasoned
(21:26):
business owners now and all progressing all at different
levels, all from different walksof life.
Life, it all plays into into theecosystem, doesn't it?
Yeah, I was just about to lead into that.
That's the the beauty of it is when the majority of the group
is using a job management software, sorry using service
(21:47):
main that I think everyone in the group is using a job
management software. But then you can lean on the
rest of the group then because it becomes a bit of a hive mind
because it's ever evolving. And we've got another schedule,
another scheduled podcast to talk about AI.
And most of the job management softwares have AI built into
(22:09):
them now in varying degrees. So that's, again, conversations
to be had with the other business owners within Alliance
of, you know, how can I leverage?
Is this the best? But yeah, there's just so many,
you know, you, you hit the nail on the head really is that it's
not, it should never be viewed as a cost to the business.
(22:33):
I think kind of a lot of the, it's the the sole trader kind of
mindset, lads. You see it as a cost rather than
seeing it as a way to elevate the business in multiple ways.
And as a result, you can then increase your pricing because
you've elevated your business and again, goes far beyond like
(22:53):
cost serving. And we spoke about this on the
long podcast. If you pay ÂŁ100 a month for job
management software and even at a very absolute base level, it
frees up enough time in your month to do 2 further jobs and
generate more than it costs you.That and it's very simplistic
baseline form makes it worth it.It's impossible for it to only
(23:18):
be that bring that little amountof value, in my opinion.
But that was like a really simple analogy that we used,
isn't it to to say why yes, not to not to use one.
And it's usually just lack of knowledge about them or a
stubbornness from like you raised in another episode of
what you learn from an old guy, you learn from an old guy kind
(23:40):
of thing. You then it's like, well, you
know, my, the guy I did my apprentice with didn't do it and
he was doing all right. But time, like technology is
moving fast, but more importantly, customer
requirements is moving faster than the, the the trade
industries themselves are in terms of actually doing the work
(24:02):
hasn't really changed as it you know what I mean.
The combi boiler is still very similar to the one that it was
20 years ago, even 10 years ago.You know, fuse boards have
become a bit safer, but they haven't changed that much the
way you throw plaster on a wall,the way you paint and decorate a
house. And it's very, very slow moving
(24:23):
in that realm of things. But the other side of stuff and
what customers demand from the other side of the stuff is, is
changing rapidly. And again, to to echo the
pricing conversation, if you're not pushing forward and putting
in putting things in place that allow you to push your price and
(24:44):
not just beyond, not just in line with inflation, but then
above and beyond, then you're moving losing money year on
year. So that investment into the
software that a lot of guys think, well, I don't want to do
that. It's going to cost me money to
actually know you. I would argue you have to to
implement it, otherwise the business is going to slip
further and further down in terms of its profit margins.
(25:08):
Yeah. And also one thing that I've
noticed massively is the, so when I first started using
systems, I was one of the forerunners.
You know, there weren't many people in my area doing it.
But over the last decade, obviously more and more people
are, are learning they they're, they're improving and the base
(25:30):
level of service is going up. So if you're not improving,
you're you're not just staying still, you're actually falling
further behind everybody else inyour area.
So even from that perspective, you know, it's sort of get on
the train or get left behind, isn't it?
Because every year that passes, especially we're not going to
(25:52):
touch AI today because that warrants it's, it's whole
discussion. But you know, you factor in AI,
you know, the speed that that's changing everything at the it's
only getting faster. Everything is getting faster.
So the, the, the longer you procrastinate and sit on your
hands and don't take any action,the harder it's going to be for
(26:15):
you to catch up. You know, just simple, simple
things, right? So a review collection system,
right? Yes, you might have all good
intentions to send out a review link right to every customer on
every job that you do. Chances are you're busy.
You forget, you've got I'll do it on, I'll do it at the end of
the week. Then the end of the week comes
and you don't do it then. Then a month passes by and you
(26:37):
realise I haven't done it for a month.
So you think, oh, it's too late to send it to these guys.
So I'm going to start again today and you might send it a
few times. You get a few reviews, then you
get busy again. You forget, forgetful, you
forget about it, right? You're going to get what, 2020
thirty reviews over the course of a couple of years?
Probably like that. But then you're competing
(26:59):
against guys like me, Andy and other off the Tools Alliance
members that are sending out multiple review requests on
every job completely hands through.
It's not taking us any time. It's all built in to the systems
that we have built. So that is why I sit here today
with over 1500 reviews. You imagine, right?
(27:21):
You imagine the poor 25 year oldlad that's just give up his job
and he's going self-employed andhe's trying to do it the old
school way because that's all heknows and he's trying to compete
with my company in my town when I've got such a vast amount of
reviews. And Andy, what are you at?
You're well over 1000 now. You're across all the platforms
(27:42):
in there. Jive 1000 now in again, so and
that's not from the start of thethe business that was from the
start of getting software. So we we've had software now for
about. So we properly kicked off with
(28:05):
the software last summer. So there's we've probably
achieved 800 reviews in 18 months.
Yeah. So you imagine that competitor,
if they had started a year ago to try and keep up with Andy,
you know, then they would be like now.
Now it's a mountain, isn't it? It's not just a little hill.
(28:25):
They're not they're not a littlebit behind just in that short
amount of time, they're now a marathon away from from catching
Andy and that is just compounding every single day.
And that's just one example review collection.
Let's let's let's look at reminders.
You know, we touched on reminders earlier.
(28:47):
Every single boiler service thathappens in mine, Andy's and
other alliance members businesses, they are getting
reminders every single year after that job.
So we're not leaving it to chance.
So we're not only are we building our reputation with the
review collection side of things, we're actually driving
revenue and customer retention and increasing that life
(29:09):
lifetime value of our of our clients every single year.
And what's even better is we're not doing it.
As in once it's built, apart from the odd tweak here or
there, you might want to change a bit of a wording in one of the
messages that go out or something.
My system that runs my business pretty much hasn't been touched
(29:30):
apart from the odd spelling mistake found or something like
that, you know, in nearly six years.
So six years ago, I invested some time and money to build
something that is still to this day serving me and doing jobs
for me and building, helping me build my business when I don't
(29:52):
have to do anything for that to happen.
And that's just two very basic examples of how job management
can help. Then we start factoring in
invoicing, right? If you're invoicing, guess what?
We're going to remind that customer that they haven't paid,
you know, so you're going to getyour money quicker, more
efficiently and without any hassle.
(30:13):
Then you factor in sending out quotes.
You can send quotes out through the software.
Obviously we use quotient, whichis another, another discussion
point. But service mate and other job
management's can do basic quoting.
So now you've got solid record, you're you're chasing up these
quotes on, on autopilot, all of this quickly.
(30:33):
It just eliminates that, that little bit of a learning curve
at the beginning and that littlebit of cost that it might cost
you. And it just becomes the beating
heart of the business, doesn't it?
Yeah. 100% it just it, it absolutely blows away the costs,
the cost that it is the cost of this absolutely blows it away.
(30:54):
It's not. Even I've always said if service
mate doubled their price tomorrow, maybe I shouldn't say
this publicly. You know, I wouldn't even blink
at paying, you know, because thevalue is just their 1000 hundred
X. You know, it's, it's, it's in
essence, I see it as an infinitereturn on it.
(31:15):
Yeah, I'd say I like how you mentioned again about it's
usually once it's set up and that's that is the daunting part
of it. It's when you set up at the
beginning, the set up costs and then you get in to use it
yourself can be quite daunting. But once it's in and it's
dialled in, then you just let itrun, run.
(31:39):
You can say you can make the local tweaks if you want to
change little things as you see you see fit.
But once it's done, it's done and you just use it and it
gathers the data and you're. And, and the level of like
professionalism that it, that itgarners, if that's the right
word, you know, like I'll, I'll go a little like.
(32:02):
So in business, there's a, there's something called a
customer journey, OK. And that is in essence the, the,
the route that that customer takes from sort of first
contact. Well, even before that, but
let's just start a first contactthrough to job completing and
then looking after that customerinto the into the future.
And to show you what is sort of possible, I'm just going to
(32:25):
quickly describe the basic service customer journey that my
customer will book will will go through.
If they book, Let's just choose let's choose a boiler breakdown,
right. So let's say they ring my office
or they send an enquiry through to my office today, they're
going to be obviously greeted, you know, introduced to the
(32:45):
company, customer details taken.So now first of all, we've got
some valuable data. We've got their name, address,
e-mail, phone number. And obviously the problem that
that that they're experiencing, how we've collected that data
could be through an online form,could be through a phone call,
could be through a voicemail. It's irrelevant.
In essence, that's the start of the basic customer journey.
(33:07):
We then book that job in to the electronic diary that's built
into the system. OK, so the the office lady can
clearly see who's available. When we then book that job in as
that as that job is booked in a booking confirmation is sent out
to the customer via text and e-mail.
OK, so stage 1, they're now already being confirmed.
(33:27):
So they've had it confirmed on the phone, but they now have a
digital copy that shows that theappointment's booked and that is
when someone's going to turn up.Then they get a reminder, OK, so
a couple of days before or or 24hours before, I can't remember
its specifics, they will get another text and e-mail that
just says don't forget you've got an upcoming an appointment
with us at this time. So it limits people forgetting
(33:51):
going to work, not not communicating and letting us
know that they don't need us anymore, etcetera, etcetera.
Then the next stage to that is they will then when the
engineer, whether it's myself, whether it's one of my staff is,
are actually going to start to travel to that job, they get
another notification that sell that tells the customer we are
27 minutes away or, or whatever it might be.
(34:13):
Then obviously the job, the service you deliver, the service
that you're there for. Sorry, what I've also forgotten
there is they also get a confirmation of the costings go
out via a text message and an e-mail as well.
So whatever's been discussed on the phone with regards to our
call out fees in this example ofa breakdown are emailed and
text. So again, we're eliminating any
(34:34):
ambiguous, you know, are the cost.
The, the, the office never told us there was a cost or whatever
back to the job. We do the job, etcetera.
Let's say it's just a low pressure, we top the pressure
up, blah, blah, blah. We do the job.
We then generate A customised job report for the, for the job
at hand. So we take a couple of photos,
we write a description that generates a beautiful looking
(34:57):
PDF. Beautiful is probably an extreme
word. A nice looking professional PDF
is probably more is realistic, kind of a bit glamorous there
with beautiful that is then emailed over to the customer
alongside by the invoice, which the invoice has the ability to
pay on online or you can even take payment via your phone like
(35:18):
a car terminal. They can tap it.
If it's over ÂŁ100, they can justenter their PIN and make a
payment. So at this stage with everything
that I've just just done, there's been very minimal input.
All that, all that's been done is the job has been booked in
all the rest of that and obviously we've done the
breakdown. So they're the two physical
(35:38):
elements that have happened. Everything else has happened on
autopilot. Then let's say that they don't
pay for whatever reason. Let's just say like the engineer
didn't have time to take payment.
If they don't pay, they will then get a series of reminders
via text and e-mail to make payment.
Obviously once they pay, that reminder stops.
They'll also on the back end of this customer journey, they will
(36:00):
also get a couple of texts and acouple of emails to encourage
them to reach out if there's a problem and ultimately leave us
a review. And then we also have one later
on in the journey that asks themif they know any friends or
family that need work to point them in our direction.
So that there, right, if you're not even do, if you're not doing
(36:23):
half of that, look how far behind you are compared to
someone like me. And that's just a very basic 1.
You know, there's there's elements following on for this,
for future marketing and, and future works and etcetera,
etcetera, which is probably a whole nother episode.
But I just wanted to showcase what a system can do on top of
all of that. Now we now have all of that data
(36:47):
in the system so any anywhere inthe world I can log in and I can
see Mrs Jones's boiler using Andys Mums name here, Mrs
Jones's boiler. I can see who did what, when,
what communications have gone out, what's been paid, what's
not been, not what, what's not been paid.
If they reply, I'll get any, anycommunications come back in and
(37:09):
it just collates it all. And on top of that, obviously
anyone in the office can see. So if I'm not available, they
can look and go, ah, we were there two weeks ago.
I wonder if it's linked to that job that this this phone call is
about, etcetera, etcetera. Just makes things so much
better, doesn't it Andy? So yeah, so that's just a very
basic customer journey for a boiler breakdown might scare a
(37:29):
lot of you, but once that is setup, whether you do it yourself
or whether you come through a partner like myself and Andy,
it's set up. I haven't had to rebuild this.
I haven't had to touch this in years and years.
So it just works on autopilot, which is what we all want.
You know I. Think one thing as well I want
just want to add in there as well for, for the lads that may
(37:52):
be either plan to have other lads out on the road or already
have and they're dealing the sort of money managing them
manually. Like all that data that you were
saying, it's visible from your admin person or for yourself.
But it also, again, by definition, is a job management
(38:14):
software to manage the jobs thatyour team is working on.
So you then have a diary that can be populated.
So one thing that it becomes extremely valuable too when
you're trying to get the most amount of the work completed or
maximum revenue per day per engineer.
The way it can be viewed from the person managing the diary,
(38:37):
again, whether it's yourself or someone in the office, it's laid
out in a in a really good way where they can say, well,
actually, you know, he's a bit stuck on that job or we've had
something else come in, let's swap them around.
We'll move that to that guy, that to that guy and that to
that guy. That would become too much work
to do logistically if you wasn'tusing the job management
(38:57):
software. That's something that when I
look at it now for the team, I think like how this would be
virtually impossible to do without this job management
software. I agree if.
Anyone's got a couple of lads out on the road and they're
thinking shit, this is hard work.
I don't think I want to grow theteam anymore.
Maybe it's because you've not got a job management software.
(39:21):
Yeah. No, that's, that's a really,
really good point there. And what worked 10 years ago
might not work today. You know, you might need to just
change, change some things if you've been on the same software
for a long time, that it might just be that you need a bit of
new, a bit of something new and something that does something a
(39:41):
little bit different. Because ultimately not all
systems will suit all businesses.
So you do have to find one that fits for what you want and has
the features available. But there are there are plenty
out there unless you've got the time, the money and the
(40:01):
inclination to build a complete from the ground up software to
make it exactly perfect for yourbusiness.
Even then, you're never going toreach perfection then using one
of these off the shelf ones thathave the ability to customise.
Yeah. So some softwares like gas
engineer software like. They're very rigid, you know,
(40:22):
there's not, there's, there's not much adaptations that you
can do. Whereas things like service
Mate, SIM pros and and, and and others, you can adapt it and
build it, which is why there's partners like us that, that to
manipulate the core software into more of a bespoke version
for you. Which is again another reason
(40:43):
why we recommend Service Mate sohighly because we can integrate
with the likes of Sales Lion, which is lead and marketing
software quotient and and obviously it links with
accounting softwares like 0 QuickBooks, etcetera.
Later down the line as well, we're going to run a bit of a
webinar, aren't we on, on software.
(41:06):
So we will just showcase some ofthe software and just show you
give you a more visual idea because obviously we can talk
about it all day, but we're usedto seeing it and we can picture
it in our head. I think some of the the guys
listening probably thinking, oh,what, what's all that about?
Can I see it? And we do get a lot of requests
(41:27):
to see it in action or see it live, so to speak.
So we will be doing a webinar and talking about and showcasing
the big four that we spoke aboutbefore, which is sales and
marketing, job management, quoting and then accounting
softwares. I would say the one accounting
(41:49):
software wise is the one that maybe some guys might have, even
if they're not using it. So a lot of accountants will
tell you you need this software even though you've not played
with it. So that could be useful for them
to look at. But the other three are
generally very visual and like say they can be customised and
built out. So yeah, stay tuned for that or
(42:09):
keep your eye open rather for, for that we will to get dates
out on that across a few platforms.
So if you're not following already, just give us a follow
and you'll, you'll be updated onthat and you can see it working
in real time in a real business and exactly just what it's what
it's capable of. Exactly that, yeah.
(42:30):
And if you've got any, any specific questions or anything
around systems, please just dropus a message on our emails,
Wayne or andy@offthetools.co.uk.Or better still, post it in the
Off the Tools Facebook group, which is a thriving community
full of people all over the country or all different levels.
That is completely free. So make sure you go and join
(42:52):
that. Anything else you want to add,
Andy? Nope, I think there's.
Some. Put into one, but yeah.
See you on the next one guys.
And we're back with another episode of the Off the Tools
podcast with myself, Wayne and Andy Jones.
How are we doing? We are good.
We are good. Good, good.
Another one with a big in my opinion, a big topic and
something that is massively, massively, massively
(00:35):
underutilised in the antiquated trade game of the UK.
Definitely. And that subject is systems.
So this will probably be, again one that we keep coming back to.
There's probably going to be lots of discussions around
systems, but we have to start somewhere.
(00:56):
So I'll give you what I feel systems are.
You know, there's two sides to systems in my opinion.
There's the technical side, which is like on the computers
and and things like that. And then there's like your
internal processes, which are sort of mechanical systems.
(01:16):
Today I want to focus on technology really more than more
than sort of processes side of it.
In this day and age. There is no excuses for not
using systems. I'm pretty sure 99.9% or a
little cameo from my wife bringing me a cup of tea.
She's on camera. There's no there's no excuses
(01:41):
not to be using systems. And the chances are 99.9% of you
are using systems in some way, whether it be an e-mail system,
I'm guessing every business accepts e-mail, whether you're
sending text messaging, that's asystem, right?
That's all base level, entry level, obvious things.
(02:02):
What I want to talk about is thebusiness systems that start to
propel your business, make it professional, starts to build
value in the customer's eyes, right?
And it makes logical sense to sort of give a little bit of
context around where I'm going with this.
So in my eyes, there are 4 fundamental technology systems
(02:26):
that everybody should be using if they want to build a
business, not just have a job. And that starts with lead and
sales management at the beginning.
OK, then job management, then quotation and sales software and
then accounting software at the end.
(02:47):
In my eyes though, those are as important as having a van and
having tools. In my eyes they are.
If we looked at this as a traditional shop, they are your
shop and your front desk and your till.
You know, these are things that no shop would open up without a
shop or without a way to take payments or without a way to
(03:10):
sell those products. These are the fundamentals.
And I think naturally, you know,we won't go too technical today.
I think if we focus around job management systems, because it's
really the first level that mostpeople will dip their toe into,
(03:31):
there's lots of different types of job management systems out
there. I've got no notes here, so I'm
just working off the cuff, but to name some popular ones,
you've got likes of Gas EngineerSoftware, Tradify, Commusoft,
Service May SIM Pro, there's Payaka there, there's loads,
(03:53):
there's loads more, there's, there's, there's always new ones
being developed. But fundamentally those are
probably what the, the, the mainones that most people will have
heard of in some capacity. Those that have followed off the
tools for a while will, will know that service Mate is our
preferred software. That said, a lot of members in
(04:14):
the group use alternatives. So it's not, we're not, we're
not a cult for service Mate. We are official partners with
service Mates, so we can help you develop that system, but we
also work on all of the other systems and, and, and appreciate
that every business is slightly different and the needs and the
requirements don't always match just one software.
(04:37):
So when I'm talking and, and talking about systems, service
Mate will be my natural tongue, so to speak, because it's what
I've used for coming up, coming close to a nearly a decade.
I would say, don't know precisely.
I think it was 20, 15/16/17 times somewhere around there.
(04:57):
But for me, the importance of having a job management when
there's there's many, many reasons why you should be using
a job management system at the very base level.
It's just keeping hold of customers data, you know, just
making sure that you're logging names, addresses, emails and
then going further from that. You're obviously creating
(05:19):
invoices, taking payments, communicating with the customer,
and then obviously further on top of that, we start looking at
automations and improving that customer journey through
reminders, review collection andthe list can go on.
There's so, so many variables toit, but it all starts somewhere,
(05:43):
you know and, and whether you'reusing pen and paper at the
moment, you know, or whether youare using gas engineer.
Software or whether you're using.
Service name, you know, the system becomes the heart, the
beating heart of the business. And if you have aspirations to
build a business rather than a job, then having a system at the
(06:03):
core of the business is fundamental.
Would you agree, Andy? Yeah, definitely.
I think it's within that in my opinion is a necessity in 2025
because what? And again, this is something
that I've, I've tracked the dataon and I'll give you a bit of a
(06:28):
scenario. Let's say you're self-employed.
You don't have a system in placeto manage service reminders.
Just as one example, you might have it written down and that
requires you to then manually doit and ring out to that
customer. If you miss that for whatever
(06:53):
reason, because it isn't automated and done through the
job management software, that customer may ring you.
They may or may not ring you. They may forget who you were.
They will ring someone else and for example, if they ring a
company that uses the job management software, the
likelihood is you will have lostthat customer then forever
(07:15):
because they will start to experience not only a new level
of value through that software, but that software will work to
keep that customer through reminders of things like that so
they won't slip through the net.That's something I've spoke to a
lot of lads about. They'll realise a month later,
(07:36):
oh this, this customer, I was meant to ring them and I don't
believe you can wait for customers to ring you anymore.
When it comes to something like a reminder boiler service, I
don't think customers you can expect that of customers
anymore. You need to be keeping them in
the loop. So that's just one example.
(07:57):
The the annual service reminders.
I don't know a lot of the basic softwares do that like GES
doesn't have to be service mate,but that was just something that
I again, from from conversationsI've had the most guys first
foray into software is often because of that, isn't it?
(08:17):
It's data capture storage And then if you're that your
business denotes any kind of recurring work, whether it be
ATP 12 or boiler service from the gas world or an EICR for a
spark, something like that everyfive years.
(08:38):
So it did you need something in place.
So that's usually the first dipping of the tow into the
water, isn't it? Yeah, it, it, it started with
certificates, didn't it? I think that was really like
having it, having the, the digital certificates like stored
somewhere rather than writing itdown on pads and stuff was
really like the, the birth of job management, wasn't it?
(09:00):
Certainly was my first foray into, into systems back in the
day. It was just to get, get it, get
things a bit more organised. And when you work on your own,
you could often look at these sort of systems and think, yeah,
why do I really need it? You know, I'm quite happy
writing it down in a paper diaryand filling out the, the, the
(09:22):
carbon coffee pad. And in a way I, I can see why,
you know, you're in your comfortzone, you're used to it.
It's worked up till now. But when you now bring in that
new expectation, you know, of the customer tech 15 years ago
was down here. The new expectation of customers
is up here. Everyone's busy.
(09:43):
Everyone has lots going on in their lives.
They they expect more like Andy mentioned, Amazon drive, like
Amazon deliveries on a previous episode.
You know, you expect to be kept in the loop, don't you, of
what's happening when things aredue and that expectation just
keeps rising. So without a system at the heart
(10:06):
and obviously in my case and in your case in many cases it's
service mate, it's going to be very, very difficult to to push
on. And those that work for
themselves and work just just them at the minute like a one
man band in a van. In the short term, yes, there is
a bit of a headache. You know, I'm not going to dress
it up. There's there's a bit of cost
(10:28):
involved if you want to get it professionally set up or there's
a time element if you're going to try and set it up yourself.
But there's also a day-to-day drag at first because you're
doing something that you wasn't used to.
So the first month, two months is where we see, we see a lot of
people sign up a month, one month 2 and then a lot of people
(10:49):
drop off from using the system and 99% of those are one man
bands. And it's because they didn't
embrace and and ride the learning curve, if that makes
sense. Once people get through that
first couple of months, they quickly realise it's actually
easier to have my calendar on anapp on the phone.
(11:10):
It's actually easier for me to bang the customer details in
and, and have it stored because then next time they ring, it's
all there. I don't have to write it down
again. And it also works on a personal
level as well, because once you have a digital calendar, for
example, you can, your, your, your wife can, can know when
you're available or when you're not.
And, and, and it just adds benefit to, to everything, but
(11:34):
that learning curve can cause does, doesn't count.
It definitely does 'cause peopleto stop pursuing that growth and
then they revert back to type and go back to paperwork and,
and then wonder why in three years time, nothing's changed.
So that's a fundamental thing that you've got to, you've got
(11:55):
to go through it. You know, when you ride a bike,
it's very rare that you will just get on a bike and ride it,
you know, without falling off. When you're a kid or at whatever
age you learn to ride, you know,there is a learning curve.
You're going to, you're going tosmash your knee on on the pedal,
you're going to fall off, You'regoing to, you're going to press
the wrong brake and go over the handlebars.
You know, it doesn't stop you from carrying on and getting
(12:15):
through that. But if you have serious, serious
aspirations to not, I don't even, I'm, I'm not even talking
about growing into a big business.
If you have aspirations to make your life easier, be more
professional, charge more, builda better reputation, you know,
(12:38):
then a system is a no brainer. There is really no excuses in
today's world not to have one. And what, what would you say
when you first come come to me, Andy, those few years ago, you
weren't using anything really. I think you were, was you doing
certificates on gas engineering,I think, or was you not even
(13:01):
doing that? No.
So, So what would what was the, what was the hardest part of
transitioning, transitioning into a systemized system for
you? I suppose it was say a mistake I
made as well as even though I'm now I'm pretty good at building
(13:24):
software now, at the time I wasn't.
I was also busy at the time. I made the mistake of trying to
build it myself. That was one, one thing and this
that's a bit of a common theme for the lads.
They they make the mistake of, of trying to build it themselves
and maybe don't look at again. We spoke about pricing in the
(13:45):
last one, but well, actually this is going to take me days on
end to build and be better just outsourcing it and carrying on
working. So that can be a bit off putting
when people, again, unless you service me as an example,
they'll have a go at the free trial and go, this is too much
this, I'm not sure what I'm doing.
So that's that was the thing forme.
(14:08):
It was once it was live because I'd already done it, always done
it in such an old school way. And again, I used to do a lot of
emergency call outs. So I used to have a little paper
pad and all that could, all I could do was signature on
arrival brief of the job and then a signature when I was
done. And that was easier.
(14:32):
And to describe that and do that.
It was only once we started using service mate where
actually that can be done all automated now.
So it knows when, whether it's you or one of your engineers, it
knows when they've arrived on site.
For example, you can do a job report with pictures and what
you've done and then obviously you can tell it tells you the
(14:54):
logout time as well. So just to to lean into the
pricing side of things about youand we spoke about bringing
value, a system has to be there for you to be able to increase
your pricing. It has to be done as part of the
natural evolution of the business and it can't be just
viewed as a benefit to the business itself.
(15:17):
And of course it is. That's kind of its primary
function really. However, it also by, as a
byproduct of that, it brings more value to the customer.
Again, you use the the Amazon Prime analogy that I mentioned
because it it keeps the customers in the loop, things
like that. So a really good conversation
we've had with some of the lads in Alliance when they started
(15:39):
using it as some of them maybe weren't charging for a fault
find, whether it's again, spark or or gas engine or whatever,
you'd go out and not charge for a fault find because they
struggled to see how they could construct that.
Or maybe they were only charginga little bit because it's not
took them that long rather than being strict with their hourly
(15:59):
rate. With something like a job
management software on top of all the stuff about keeping them
in the loop, that job report then becomes your the weight
behind something like a fault find because everything then
becomes itemised within it, stored, it protects the business
(16:19):
and the customer gets a copy. So that awkward conversation
that everyone's probably had at some point of what I'm actually
paying for, all you're doing is telling me what's wrong with it.
So you're paying for a fault find, diagnostics visit.
That includes a digital job report and here it is kind of
thing. That's one thing that has been a
common conversation within the alliance when it's it's started
(16:41):
with or I can increase my prices.
It's let's get your job management software up to speed
and then you use that as part ofthe value package, let's call it
when you bring to the customer. So yeah, I think there's a lot
of viewing of it or I don't wantto like again, you spoke about
investment. A very common conversation on
(17:02):
the online forums is, well, I don't want, I'm not paying that
much for that because all it's then see that viewed as is like
a diary thing or all of this is a glorified diary.
Why would I spend, you know, ÂŁ100 a month or whatever it is
on that? But it's just so much more,
isn't it? And that's.
(17:22):
The that's the. Thing that gets me.
It shouldn't. It's not a cost, it's an
investment because it will generate you money either
directly or indirectly, either generate you a better
reputation. It will generate you extra time
because you're now organised it.But it can also be used to to to
(17:44):
get work and bring money in directly.
And then when you then start thefactor in that if you're going
to take on someone to answer your phones, for example, or
something like that, it it's then a no break.
It's then it's not even negotiable at that point, is it?
Because there has to be that centralised hub to the system.
Have you used any other job management systems or with
(18:06):
service Mate you're sort of likefirst proper one and you've sort
of just stuck with that since? Yeah.
Again, when I built the heating business, as you said, it was
from an absolute Ground Zero point and I was that so much of
the things that we've spoke about, I was virtually a full
(18:27):
time subcontractor save the 1516customers that I had that I've
done for myself that were probably local customers.
And I was still using paper for CP twelves.
I was still using a paper diary.I was still writing bits down.
I was still, you know, keeping my receipts in a bag and
(18:49):
dropping them off for the accounting at the end of the
year in a big scruffy bag. So I had absolutely nothing.
So that was my first foray. I'd seen some of lads that I
knew who'd used gas engineer software and my best mate uses
his business, uses Tradeify. But it was only when you give me
(19:11):
a demo on Don service mate, I was like, yeah, this is this is
the shit. Like, yeah.
And that seems to be the consensus.
And the thing with softwares as well is as the popularity grows
and more people use the softwareand then pay the subscription
providing the companies run well, which service mate is,
(19:34):
then that fuels the growth the the upgrade, let's call it the
software itself. And service mates gets
progressively better and better each year as it does it does its
upgrades and it's for me it is the best piece of software.
I'll slightly vary it and say there isn't 1 perfect piece of
(19:59):
software. That's some sort of income you
soft that service mate doesn't have.
But. If you had to choose one that
was the market leader for a domestic business where you're,
you've not got more than 30 members of staff service mate is
is the go to and that that applies whether it's just you on
(20:21):
your own. We've got lots of lads in the
group who it's just them on their own isn't it?
You service mate and they're like.
Fuck about this years ago. That same thing.
I wish I got this years ago, youknow, my business would be so
much further along. You'd have more reviews, you'd
have better attention, you know,you know, you wouldn't have lost
many customers and things like that.
(20:42):
So yeah, it's always, in my opinion, the the, the first step
forward after coaching of course, is to get a job
management software. Yeah.
And then you mentioned obviouslycoaching there, but that's very
important. Part of a system as well is, is
having the right people around you that that can help you with
(21:05):
it. Hope you understand how to use
it, what to use it for, which again, you know, a little
shameless plug here for Alliance, but that is part of
what we do at Alliance, isn't it?
It's, it's that support network that, that, that level of
expertise. That is not just me and you, you
know, it's the other labs in thegroup that that are seasoned
(21:26):
business owners now and all progressing all at different
levels, all from different walksof life.
Life, it all plays into into theecosystem, doesn't it?
Yeah, I was just about to lead into that.
That's the the beauty of it is when the majority of the group
is using a job management software, sorry using service
(21:47):
main that I think everyone in the group is using a job
management software. But then you can lean on the
rest of the group then because it becomes a bit of a hive mind
because it's ever evolving. And we've got another schedule,
another scheduled podcast to talk about AI.
And most of the job management softwares have AI built into
(22:09):
them now in varying degrees. So that's, again, conversations
to be had with the other business owners within Alliance
of, you know, how can I leverage?
Is this the best? But yeah, there's just so many,
you know, you, you hit the nail on the head really is that it's
not, it should never be viewed as a cost to the business.
(22:33):
I think kind of a lot of the, it's the the sole trader kind of
mindset, lads. You see it as a cost rather than
seeing it as a way to elevate the business in multiple ways.
And as a result, you can then increase your pricing because
you've elevated your business and again, goes far beyond like
(22:53):
cost serving. And we spoke about this on the
long podcast. If you pay ÂŁ100 a month for job
management software and even at a very absolute base level, it
frees up enough time in your month to do 2 further jobs and
generate more than it costs you.That and it's very simplistic
baseline form makes it worth it.It's impossible for it to only
(23:18):
be that bring that little amountof value, in my opinion.
But that was like a really simple analogy that we used,
isn't it to to say why yes, not to not to use one.
And it's usually just lack of knowledge about them or a
stubbornness from like you raised in another episode of
what you learn from an old guy, you learn from an old guy kind
(23:40):
of thing. You then it's like, well, you
know, my, the guy I did my apprentice with didn't do it and
he was doing all right. But time, like technology is
moving fast, but more importantly, customer
requirements is moving faster than the, the the trade
industries themselves are in terms of actually doing the work
(24:02):
hasn't really changed as it you know what I mean.
The combi boiler is still very similar to the one that it was
20 years ago, even 10 years ago.You know, fuse boards have
become a bit safer, but they haven't changed that much the
way you throw plaster on a wall,the way you paint and decorate a
house. And it's very, very slow moving
(24:23):
in that realm of things. But the other side of stuff and
what customers demand from the other side of the stuff is, is
changing rapidly. And again, to to echo the
pricing conversation, if you're not pushing forward and putting
in putting things in place that allow you to push your price and
(24:44):
not just beyond, not just in line with inflation, but then
above and beyond, then you're moving losing money year on
year. So that investment into the
software that a lot of guys think, well, I don't want to do
that. It's going to cost me money to
actually know you. I would argue you have to to
implement it, otherwise the business is going to slip
further and further down in terms of its profit margins.
(25:08):
Yeah. And also one thing that I've
noticed massively is the, so when I first started using
systems, I was one of the forerunners.
You know, there weren't many people in my area doing it.
But over the last decade, obviously more and more people
are, are learning they they're, they're improving and the base
(25:30):
level of service is going up. So if you're not improving,
you're you're not just staying still, you're actually falling
further behind everybody else inyour area.
So even from that perspective, you know, it's sort of get on
the train or get left behind, isn't it?
Because every year that passes, especially we're not going to
(25:52):
touch AI today because that warrants it's, it's whole
discussion. But you know, you factor in AI,
you know, the speed that that's changing everything at the it's
only getting faster. Everything is getting faster.
So the, the, the longer you procrastinate and sit on your
hands and don't take any action,the harder it's going to be for
(26:15):
you to catch up. You know, just simple, simple
things, right? So a review collection system,
right? Yes, you might have all good
intentions to send out a review link right to every customer on
every job that you do. Chances are you're busy.
You forget, you've got I'll do it on, I'll do it at the end of
the week. Then the end of the week comes
and you don't do it then. Then a month passes by and you
(26:37):
realise I haven't done it for a month.
So you think, oh, it's too late to send it to these guys.
So I'm going to start again today and you might send it a
few times. You get a few reviews, then you
get busy again. You forget, forgetful, you
forget about it, right? You're going to get what, 2020
thirty reviews over the course of a couple of years?
Probably like that. But then you're competing
(26:59):
against guys like me, Andy and other off the Tools Alliance
members that are sending out multiple review requests on
every job completely hands through.
It's not taking us any time. It's all built in to the systems
that we have built. So that is why I sit here today
with over 1500 reviews. You imagine, right?
(27:21):
You imagine the poor 25 year oldlad that's just give up his job
and he's going self-employed andhe's trying to do it the old
school way because that's all heknows and he's trying to compete
with my company in my town when I've got such a vast amount of
reviews. And Andy, what are you at?
You're well over 1000 now. You're across all the platforms
(27:42):
in there. Jive 1000 now in again, so and
that's not from the start of thethe business that was from the
start of getting software. So we we've had software now for
about. So we properly kicked off with
(28:05):
the software last summer. So there's we've probably
achieved 800 reviews in 18 months.
Yeah. So you imagine that competitor,
if they had started a year ago to try and keep up with Andy,
you know, then they would be like now.
Now it's a mountain, isn't it? It's not just a little hill.
(28:25):
They're not they're not a littlebit behind just in that short
amount of time, they're now a marathon away from from catching
Andy and that is just compounding every single day.
And that's just one example review collection.
Let's let's let's look at reminders.
You know, we touched on reminders earlier.
(28:47):
Every single boiler service thathappens in mine, Andy's and
other alliance members businesses, they are getting
reminders every single year after that job.
So we're not leaving it to chance.
So we're not only are we building our reputation with the
review collection side of things, we're actually driving
revenue and customer retention and increasing that life
(29:09):
lifetime value of our of our clients every single year.
And what's even better is we're not doing it.
As in once it's built, apart from the odd tweak here or
there, you might want to change a bit of a wording in one of the
messages that go out or something.
My system that runs my business pretty much hasn't been touched
(29:30):
apart from the odd spelling mistake found or something like
that, you know, in nearly six years.
So six years ago, I invested some time and money to build
something that is still to this day serving me and doing jobs
for me and building, helping me build my business when I don't
(29:52):
have to do anything for that to happen.
And that's just two very basic examples of how job management
can help. Then we start factoring in
invoicing, right? If you're invoicing, guess what?
We're going to remind that customer that they haven't paid,
you know, so you're going to getyour money quicker, more
efficiently and without any hassle.
(30:13):
Then you factor in sending out quotes.
You can send quotes out through the software.
Obviously we use quotient, whichis another, another discussion
point. But service mate and other job
management's can do basic quoting.
So now you've got solid record, you're you're chasing up these
quotes on, on autopilot, all of this quickly.
(30:33):
It just eliminates that, that little bit of a learning curve
at the beginning and that littlebit of cost that it might cost
you. And it just becomes the beating
heart of the business, doesn't it?
Yeah. 100% it just it, it absolutely blows away the costs,
the cost that it is the cost of this absolutely blows it away.
(30:54):
It's not. Even I've always said if service
mate doubled their price tomorrow, maybe I shouldn't say
this publicly. You know, I wouldn't even blink
at paying, you know, because thevalue is just their 1000 hundred
X. You know, it's, it's, it's in
essence, I see it as an infinitereturn on it.
(31:15):
Yeah, I'd say I like how you mentioned again about it's
usually once it's set up and that's that is the daunting part
of it. It's when you set up at the
beginning, the set up costs and then you get in to use it
yourself can be quite daunting. But once it's in and it's
dialled in, then you just let itrun, run.
(31:39):
You can say you can make the local tweaks if you want to
change little things as you see you see fit.
But once it's done, it's done and you just use it and it
gathers the data and you're. And, and the level of like
professionalism that it, that itgarners, if that's the right
word, you know, like I'll, I'll go a little like.
(32:02):
So in business, there's a, there's something called a
customer journey, OK. And that is in essence the, the,
the route that that customer takes from sort of first
contact. Well, even before that, but
let's just start a first contactthrough to job completing and
then looking after that customerinto the into the future.
And to show you what is sort of possible, I'm just going to
(32:25):
quickly describe the basic service customer journey that my
customer will book will will go through.
If they book, Let's just choose let's choose a boiler breakdown,
right. So let's say they ring my office
or they send an enquiry through to my office today, they're
going to be obviously greeted, you know, introduced to the
(32:45):
company, customer details taken.So now first of all, we've got
some valuable data. We've got their name, address,
e-mail, phone number. And obviously the problem that
that that they're experiencing, how we've collected that data
could be through an online form,could be through a phone call,
could be through a voicemail. It's irrelevant.
In essence, that's the start of the basic customer journey.
(33:07):
We then book that job in to the electronic diary that's built
into the system. OK, so the the office lady can
clearly see who's available. When we then book that job in as
that as that job is booked in a booking confirmation is sent out
to the customer via text and e-mail.
OK, so stage 1, they're now already being confirmed.
(33:27):
So they've had it confirmed on the phone, but they now have a
digital copy that shows that theappointment's booked and that is
when someone's going to turn up.Then they get a reminder, OK, so
a couple of days before or or 24hours before, I can't remember
its specifics, they will get another text and e-mail that
just says don't forget you've got an upcoming an appointment
with us at this time. So it limits people forgetting
(33:51):
going to work, not not communicating and letting us
know that they don't need us anymore, etcetera, etcetera.
Then the next stage to that is they will then when the
engineer, whether it's myself, whether it's one of my staff is,
are actually going to start to travel to that job, they get
another notification that sell that tells the customer we are
27 minutes away or, or whatever it might be.
(34:13):
Then obviously the job, the service you deliver, the service
that you're there for. Sorry, what I've also forgotten
there is they also get a confirmation of the costings go
out via a text message and an e-mail as well.
So whatever's been discussed on the phone with regards to our
call out fees in this example ofa breakdown are emailed and
text. So again, we're eliminating any
(34:34):
ambiguous, you know, are the cost.
The, the, the office never told us there was a cost or whatever
back to the job. We do the job, etcetera.
Let's say it's just a low pressure, we top the pressure
up, blah, blah, blah. We do the job.
We then generate A customised job report for the, for the job
at hand. So we take a couple of photos,
we write a description that generates a beautiful looking
(34:57):
PDF. Beautiful is probably an extreme
word. A nice looking professional PDF
is probably more is realistic, kind of a bit glamorous there
with beautiful that is then emailed over to the customer
alongside by the invoice, which the invoice has the ability to
pay on online or you can even take payment via your phone like
(35:18):
a car terminal. They can tap it.
If it's over ÂŁ100, they can justenter their PIN and make a
payment. So at this stage with everything
that I've just just done, there's been very minimal input.
All that, all that's been done is the job has been booked in
all the rest of that and obviously we've done the
breakdown. So they're the two physical
(35:38):
elements that have happened. Everything else has happened on
autopilot. Then let's say that they don't
pay for whatever reason. Let's just say like the engineer
didn't have time to take payment.
If they don't pay, they will then get a series of reminders
via text and e-mail to make payment.
Obviously once they pay, that reminder stops.
They'll also on the back end of this customer journey, they will
(36:00):
also get a couple of texts and acouple of emails to encourage
them to reach out if there's a problem and ultimately leave us
a review. And then we also have one later
on in the journey that asks themif they know any friends or
family that need work to point them in our direction.
So that there, right, if you're not even do, if you're not doing
(36:23):
half of that, look how far behind you are compared to
someone like me. And that's just a very basic 1.
You know, there's there's elements following on for this,
for future marketing and, and future works and etcetera,
etcetera, which is probably a whole nother episode.
But I just wanted to showcase what a system can do on top of
all of that. Now we now have all of that data
(36:47):
in the system so any anywhere inthe world I can log in and I can
see Mrs Jones's boiler using Andys Mums name here, Mrs
Jones's boiler. I can see who did what, when,
what communications have gone out, what's been paid, what's
not been, not what, what's not been paid.
If they reply, I'll get any, anycommunications come back in and
(37:09):
it just collates it all. And on top of that, obviously
anyone in the office can see. So if I'm not available, they
can look and go, ah, we were there two weeks ago.
I wonder if it's linked to that job that this this phone call is
about, etcetera, etcetera. Just makes things so much
better, doesn't it Andy? So yeah, so that's just a very
basic customer journey for a boiler breakdown might scare a
(37:29):
lot of you, but once that is setup, whether you do it yourself
or whether you come through a partner like myself and Andy,
it's set up. I haven't had to rebuild this.
I haven't had to touch this in years and years.
So it just works on autopilot, which is what we all want.
You know I. Think one thing as well I want
just want to add in there as well for, for the lads that may
(37:52):
be either plan to have other lads out on the road or already
have and they're dealing the sort of money managing them
manually. Like all that data that you were
saying, it's visible from your admin person or for yourself.
But it also, again, by definition, is a job management
(38:14):
software to manage the jobs thatyour team is working on.
So you then have a diary that can be populated.
So one thing that it becomes extremely valuable too when
you're trying to get the most amount of the work completed or
maximum revenue per day per engineer.
The way it can be viewed from the person managing the diary,
(38:37):
again, whether it's yourself or someone in the office, it's laid
out in a in a really good way where they can say, well,
actually, you know, he's a bit stuck on that job or we've had
something else come in, let's swap them around.
We'll move that to that guy, that to that guy and that to
that guy. That would become too much work
to do logistically if you wasn'tusing the job management
(38:57):
software. That's something that when I
look at it now for the team, I think like how this would be
virtually impossible to do without this job management
software. I agree if.
Anyone's got a couple of lads out on the road and they're
thinking shit, this is hard work.
I don't think I want to grow theteam anymore.
Maybe it's because you've not got a job management software.
(39:21):
Yeah. No, that's, that's a really,
really good point there. And what worked 10 years ago
might not work today. You know, you might need to just
change, change some things if you've been on the same software
for a long time, that it might just be that you need a bit of
new, a bit of something new and something that does something a
(39:41):
little bit different. Because ultimately not all
systems will suit all businesses.
So you do have to find one that fits for what you want and has
the features available. But there are there are plenty
out there unless you've got the time, the money and the
(40:01):
inclination to build a complete from the ground up software to
make it exactly perfect for yourbusiness.
Even then, you're never going toreach perfection then using one
of these off the shelf ones thathave the ability to customise.
Yeah. So some softwares like gas
engineer software like. They're very rigid, you know,
(40:22):
there's not, there's, there's not much adaptations that you
can do. Whereas things like service
Mate, SIM pros and and, and and others, you can adapt it and
build it, which is why there's partners like us that, that to
manipulate the core software into more of a bespoke version
for you. Which is again another reason
(40:43):
why we recommend Service Mate sohighly because we can integrate
with the likes of Sales Lion, which is lead and marketing
software quotient and and obviously it links with
accounting softwares like 0 QuickBooks, etcetera.
Later down the line as well, we're going to run a bit of a
webinar, aren't we on, on software.
(41:06):
So we will just showcase some ofthe software and just show you
give you a more visual idea because obviously we can talk
about it all day, but we're usedto seeing it and we can picture
it in our head. I think some of the the guys
listening probably thinking, oh,what, what's all that about?
Can I see it? And we do get a lot of requests
(41:27):
to see it in action or see it live, so to speak.
So we will be doing a webinar and talking about and showcasing
the big four that we spoke aboutbefore, which is sales and
marketing, job management, quoting and then accounting
softwares. I would say the one accounting
(41:49):
software wise is the one that maybe some guys might have, even
if they're not using it. So a lot of accountants will
tell you you need this software even though you've not played
with it. So that could be useful for them
to look at. But the other three are
generally very visual and like say they can be customised and
built out. So yeah, stay tuned for that or
(42:09):
keep your eye open rather for, for that we will to get dates
out on that across a few platforms.
So if you're not following already, just give us a follow
and you'll, you'll be updated onthat and you can see it working
in real time in a real business and exactly just what it's what
it's capable of. Exactly that, yeah.
(42:30):
And if you've got any, any specific questions or anything
around systems, please just dropus a message on our emails,
Wayne or andy@offthetools.co.uk.Or better still, post it in the
Off the Tools Facebook group, which is a thriving community
full of people all over the country or all different levels.
That is completely free. So make sure you go and join
(42:52):
that. Anything else you want to add,
Andy? Nope, I think there's.
Some. Put into one, but yeah.
See you on the next one guys.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.