Life in the Operating Room: A Conversation with Trauma Surgeon Dr. Thayer

Have you ever wondered how a trauma surgeon navigates the turbulence of life and work, and where they find the courage to face the daunting challenges that stand between life and death? Meet Dr. Thayer, a dedicated trauma surgeon with a deeply inspiring life story soaked in resilience, empathy, and extraordinary experiences in medical missions across the globe. From his childhood travels that expanded his perspectives to his challenging experiences in the aftermath of an earthquake in Haiti, Dr. Thayer's tale is a testament to the power of empathy and service to humanity.

Dr. Thayer pulls back the curtain on his unique upbringing and its profound impact on his career and parenting views. A man who has overcome tragedy and reading disability,  he still maintains a positive attitude and is always thinking of others. Dr. Thayer's stories paint a vivid picture of the resilience, dedication, and sacrifices needed to thrive in a demanding yet fulfilling profession like trauma surgery.

But there's more to Dr. Thayer than just stitches and surgeries. He's a firm believer in the healing power of camaraderie and social interaction, convinced that they are essential for our overall wellbeing. From sharing his insights on the impacts of culture and diet on health to discussing his leadership lessons learned under high-stress situations, his wisdom is as abundant as his experiences.  His new endeavors include a new book Saved, One Trauma Surgeons True Account of the Miracles in His Life and podcasting on the show Raising Expectations.  So, get ready to be swept off your feet by this enlightening conversation with a man who has wedged his footprints deeply into the sands of trauma surgery and medical missionary work.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello everybody and welcome to the Off-White Co
podcast.
I'm your host, jordan Amney,and today I'm joined by a trauma
surgeon, a community leader, amotivational speaker and the
co-host of a radio show.
I'm very interested to speakwith him today.
He has turned his tragediesinto triumph.
He's the author of a bookcalled Save.
Please everybody join me towelcome Dr Thayer.
Yeah, greece was amazing.

(00:29):
I highly recommend going, justbecause it was beautiful and the
people were super nice.
Like I guess I met Greeks, likeI have a really good friend,
his family's Greek, and I meanjust a character, just a great
fun loving guy.
But you go there and it's likeeverybody's that yeah yeah, Very
fun.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, I sent.
There was a urologist who was asomoposist was his last name
and yeah, he'd come back withjust an accent.
He couldn't understand what hewas saying in English.
So, but yeah, just that's whatI found.
I mean, I was blessed to liketravel when I was 10, to go to
England and then Europe.
The people were amazing, youknow, and then I grew up
competitively swimming and Iknew the West German and East

(01:10):
German athletes.
I knew the Russian athletes andthey're just people, you know.
It's like you hear thispropaganda and what gets posted
in the media.
I think I think 10 was my bigexperience about media.
So I'm at Buckingham Palace andthe changing of the guard and
something happened and I got towitness what happened.

(01:30):
And I get back to America andI'm looking at the newspapers
and the news and it's like no,that's twisted, it's not exactly
what happened.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, you got a full hand exposure into the
propaganda machine, right?
Yeah, how the filter can change.
Yeah, so my uncle took me when Iwas like 19 to Machu Picchu.
He's like a big traveler, butthat was my first time really
like leaving the country and wespent like a month in Peru and
just that experience alone, Idon't know, like reshaped my

(02:03):
brain and I love it now.
I love like seeing new culturesand how people live and you
realize that America is reallyreally young compared to all the
other countries in the world,and so it's weird that we
sometimes, coming from America,there's kind of like the
patriotism pride, you've gotthis emotional connection to it,

(02:24):
but then you go and see otherplaces and you're like, oh okay,
there's other ways to do thisand it increases your empathy
too.
I think they really did thatfor me.
Totally, yeah, totally agree.
It allows you to connect withother people.
So I guess I really I wanted toask you anyway, because I heard
that you do like medicalmissionary work.
I do, yeah.
Where do you usually go?

Speaker 2 (02:44):
2010s when I started.
So I was going to a church andthey had begun going to Honduras
, and it was by the.
It began with a couple, husbandand wife.
She was a ICU nurse.
He was one of those crazy maxface people that go and do an
ENT residency and then go backto dental school to learn how to

(03:05):
take care of the palate and theteeth and all that stuff.
So they're doubly docked, sothey, and then they come and
they do, and so they starteddoing cleft palates, almost got
stopped, but then they hadphotographs of these kids
looking incredibly different andthey continued.
And then I guess the story washe had a Lamborghini or a
Ferrari and sold it, and thenthey bought they were working

(03:27):
for a health or doctors withoutborders, and it didn't have
really a Christian.
It has a service mentality, butit didn't have a Christian one
and they wanted to make it moreChristian.
So they bought the end of thisbuilding and converted it to an
operating room.
And so I came and I hadretractors were like the ones
you put in someone's mouth tokeep their mouth open oh, my

(03:50):
goodness.
And the emergency repairs.
It was all outpatient stuff.
So just so, that was 2010.
And then, in November of 2010,we went to Haiti.
So it was nine months after theearthquake landed in
Port-au-Prince and went to theNorthwest area, close it's
closest to Cuba.
It's supposed to be a hurricane, charted by like three weather

(04:12):
services, to come right at us.
And then I'm going between us.
The fact that we 62 people fromthe church went on this, the
fact that we got there, was amiracle.
It was the first day the TSAhad a brand new program.
That's always a bad day totravel, and so it literally took
my wife and I 15 minutes.

(04:33):
We were the first ones to stepup and go through passport check
, all that stuff, and I go.
We've got 60 other you know 60other people to do this.
There's no way we're going tomake it.
And then God created alightning storm in Dallas, which
is where we're going to land,and then Dallas to Florida,
florida into Port-au-Prince, andwe all got it.
We all made it.

(04:53):
And then one of the OB guys hadthis $40,000 ultrasound machine
that he borrowed from Kaiserpermanent medical group and then
it didn't show in Florida,where I was supposed to.
I was like, oh my gosh, he justprayed and there it wasn't.
In Haiti.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
So it showed up in.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Haiti.
It showed up in Haiti.
Oh, and then the fun part ofHaiti was works in the serious.
Some of us half of us got on aplane and went to the airstrip
that we were landing in.
It was a gravel field.
They had to clear the animalsout of the way for you to land,
but they had to have specialtires on the plane, so some got

(05:31):
on right there.
Some had to fly to anotherairport to get on a plane that
had the right tires, and that'swhat we had to do.
So I think we had fiveairplanes that were on that trip
.
But, yeah, so just the povertyand the fact that nothing had
been done.
And then the incredible story ofJude in the book, this

(05:52):
14-year-old.
We were there when the UN oneof the UN troops from, I think,
southeast Asia brought incholera and Americans never see
cholera unless you're doingmission trips and third world
countries.
And, man, it was like westarted seeing 100 people a day
and then 300 people a day.
They had all these suppliesthat weren't used Because, I

(06:13):
mean, I think everybody went toPort-au-Prince for medical care
and they have six operatingrooms.
They could have done all thewound care and amputations that
you see Eye care that you seewith earthquake victims, and it
just never got used and so and Ididn't have anesthesia with me,
so I really couldn't doanything other than local
surgery with numbing medicineand I'm like I feel like my

(06:36):
skill set's not being used.
And then I finally, about thethird day, I did a couple of
minor procedures and then I wentto the cholera clinic.
It was a classroom, one room,cement floor or a risana, with
IVs and antibiotics going, andthere's these infants that are
dying.
They're not even moving, theireyes are so sunken in that they
and I'm like you know theparamedics that were there and

(06:58):
the nurses couldn't get IVs inthem.
And I walk over to a table thathad supplies on it and there's
this brown box of solid needles.
They're 14 gauge needles.
I'm like why would we havethese?
It's going to get stuck bythese things we're not giving I
am intramuscular shots, so it'slike this is an interosseous.

(07:18):
This is trauma for a kid.
So I went over the first one andliterally, if you've ever had a
antenna on a car, that's whatthat's kind of the caliber of
this needle, and it's also solidtoo.
If you bend that antenna andyou try and bend it back, it's
going to snap and then in achild it's going to be in their

(07:39):
shins.
So I'm like nervous and keeppushing and then finally it
gives and I think man did it goall the way through the leg and
I go no, because it would takejust as much force to get
through the backside of the bone.
So aspirate there's marrow,give fluids in the marrow and
resuscitate these kids.
So that was my purpose on thistrip was to be there for these

(08:00):
infants and stick the needles intheir shins to give them fluid
and save them.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
That's awesome.
So when there's so manyquestions, just write them out
60, 62 people, are they allmedical?

Speaker 2 (08:12):
No, and that's just the thing.
I mean people will go.
There was one trip I went toHonduras, one good friends of
mine.
He's a tile layer, so he's, youknow, blue collar, and he's
just sitting there at the tableat dinner and he's like man, I'm
just, I'm not doing anything.
I go, what are you working on?
He goes, we're putting in this.
Well, you know, and I'm like,it's out in the middle of the
village, we have to go throughthese streams and you know, it's

(08:35):
like Indiana Jones jungle like.
And I go, dave, how many peopleis this going to give?
Could give fresh water to everyday?
It's like 5,000.
It's gravity fed, so it's notsustainable.
I go, you're saving more livesthan I ever will on these trips.
I mean the last two years it'sbeen a.

(08:56):
I had an 18.
This last trip we did 48 and ahalf.
I say half because we had oneperson we put under anesthesia
and then his heart rate went toalmost zero and we're like, oh,
this thing going to happen?
So, and then I havecardiologists that are going to
come over and put a pacemaker in, or all the things we do in
America, but four laparoscopicgallbladders and 44 hernias in

(09:16):
four and a half days.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Man, yeah, that's jamming yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Because we had.
We had Brenda Rice who was oneof the pioneers and the founders
of this.
She went back to school andbecame a CRNA sort of fight,
nursing RN, so she could doanesthesia.
She brought a trainee with herso I had two anesthesiologists
and they could just tag team it.
You know they were the glanthem up, get an IV in a preop

(09:43):
and then get them in, get themunder and then recover them.
So this was amazing.
And then the other key waswhich I'd never had there was a
PA from Idaho who's acardiothoracic PA, so he knows
how to close the incisions toskin and not to the repair but
the skin.
So he would be the doc out inthe villages and then come in
the afternoon when he got backto the operating room and then

(10:05):
just help.
So he'd come in and close theincisions, like a five, 10
minute break of just sittingdown, hydrating and you know,
next up.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Good Lord, that's a.
That's a lot.
Oh, I wanted to ask more too.
When you were doing theinterosseous with the needle,
were you just taking the needlegoing straight into the shin?
Perfectly?

Speaker 2 (10:25):
perpendicular.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, in America they have guns that like just I've
only seen the screw gun, yeah,so for anybody that doesn't know
, I guess what we're talkingabout is, if you can't get the
IV access, sometimes it's easierto go in, especially in
children, correct?
Like you could go interosseous,which is like kind of drilling
into the shin bone.
I've only seen it like a used ascrew gun specifically, I'm

(10:48):
never.
Just I didn't realize that youcould just take the needle and
nail it.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well, that, that was my brain.
I mean that was a God moment,right?
Some voice in my head saysthese are big, they're, they're
solid If you don't bend it andyou maintain perfect force
perpendicular to the bone andjust steady, you shouldn't bend
it, you shouldn't break it.
And so I mean they didn't movewhen I did that.

(11:13):
That's amazing.
Not at all.
I'm like it was spooky, butyeah, but it was a miracle that
you know, a lot of our bones arehollow on the inside.
That's where the marrow is.
And so that's what we found.
I mean, there's, if you watchthe videos which you can YouTube
, these things now peoplelistening want to really be
wicked and watch, but there's astern, there's a sternal one for

(11:34):
adults.
I'm like man, that's not goingto go into the heart.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, You're like I'd rather take it in the shin.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Yeah, yeah, not the heart, not the nickel stage and
the rock, I think.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
What is the name of the like mission group that you
use?

Speaker 2 (11:50):
It's the Rice Foundation.
They're out of Pennsylvania andthey've teamed up.
I think they do it perfectly.
My recommendation from missiontrips and especially medical is
you want to be linked with thenative people.
So Ricardo was a bright scholarout of Honduras, got a free
scholarship, got an MBA in Texasand now he's back taking care

(12:13):
of his people and he links withthe churches.
So the pastors reach out andwhat happens is they'll announce
medical brigades going to behere on these dates.
They have some skin in the gameso they have to pay a small
amount of money for a ticket toget through the door but then
they're there not looking forshoes or sunglasses or all the
other things we do.
So we do dental, pediatrics,family there's a family doc that

(12:36):
goes and then construction andthen DBS.
So we're going out to villages.
I think my wife would go everyother year and are too youngest
man.
They started going when theywere seven.
They're playing soccer alongthis.
It's the Pan American highway.
I'm like it's busy but it'sliterally like romancing the

(13:00):
stone.
There's places that it's washedout and you got to get across
it and you're in a bus classicmission trips.
We had a one handed driver onetime and it's dark.
It's a long day.
You sleep deprived all thosethings You're like.
Please, just let us get to thedestination.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Well, that's awesome.
I also think it's great foryour kids too.
Just to see, for one, youputting in that work.
It kind of shows them a goodrole model but also allows them
to interact with people fromdifferent countries and in
poverty or more destitute thanthey would be Right.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, I mean they're not wearing shoes.
So yeah, and then they get togo out and see.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
That puts it into perspective.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, honduras is known, I think, for tobacco and
coffee, so they were out helpingspread coffee beans out to dry
them out and stuff.
Then they get offered coffee,but you're always worried about
the water.
So how hot did you get this?

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, please tell me if it was boiling before.
Well, dr Thayer, I didn't wantto slow us down and honestly I
really enjoyed talking to you,so but for anybody that doesn't
know you, could you give us likea little bit of your background
and your medical journey?

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, yeah, medical journey wise, I think it began
like in high school.
So I was just blessed to knowwhat I wanted to do.
I was tutoring some blindstudents, so I knew I love to
help and teach.
It was in geometry, which is achallenge when you're blind,
because how do you see a circle.
So, like you said, you becomean empath because you have to
think outside of your own brainand go how are they doing this

(14:38):
and how do I need to teach them?
And then I love working with myhands.
So I knew I wanted to be asurgeon.
And then junior year I took ananatomy physiology class and
that was it.
It's the human body's amazing.
I got to go on a medicine, be asurgeon.
It combines all those gifts andtalents.
And then the end of my junioryear I had a twisted intestine.
Ate a bunch of lasagna that mymom had made and then drank some

(14:59):
milk and it just gets in a loopof your small intestine and
twists.
And then you're in trouble.
I'm throwing up all night.
I'd lost almost 30 pounds fromvomiting all night.
My dad finds me on the bathroomfloor upstairs and go to the
pediatrician's office, and butthat's funny because I didn't
really think about generalsurgery at that point.
I just wanted to be acardiothoracic because that
seemed like.
You know, you watch Paka andMASH or that kind of stuff.

(15:23):
He's a chest cutter and then itwas getting into undergrad
which was just incredible at UCDavis.
But I mean that was a challengebecause my freshman year my mom
dies.
She has a heart attack, prettymuch in her sleep, and you know
I'm black, dark dorm room withmy other roommate and phone

(15:44):
rings and and it's my dad.
You know he's just like.
I don't know how to tell youthis.
I don't know how to tell youthis, but your mom just passed
and so I took off to go home tobe there for my dad for a bit.
I was on an all male dorm floorand they're like I'll never
come back, I'm gonna come back Idid.
I finished sophomore year whenI'm taking the organic chem,

(16:06):
physics, bacteriology,biochemistry, biochem lab 18
units I come around the cornerafter a back to the lab and I'm
on the wrong side of the road.
It's my fault.
And this girl pulls out on herbicycle and I just jacked my
wheel and go over.
I get up, make sure she's okay,Didn't hit her, she's fine.
The next thing I remember I'msitting on a curb and there's an

(16:28):
ambulance in front of me.
So I got knocked out.
They take me to the healthcenter.
I have a last right here.
They stitched that up, theysent me back and that evening
I'm like I can't hear very wellout of this ear and there's this
fluid coming out of it.
What is this?
So I call on some grad studentthat just answers the phone and
I'm like, is this a problem?
He goes I don't know.
What do you think?

(16:48):
I don't know, but I have a.
I have a bacteriaology midterm.
It ends at 3, 30.
I could get to the clinic atyou know, 4, 30 ish and I did
the x-ray in my head and I'vegot a basal skull fracture.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
So it's like oh yeah, and so because the final with
the skull fracture, I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah, yeah.
So I got air in my head and I'min their head anyway, I guess.
Yeah, so so they admit me untilthat stops.
They got me on antibiotics.
It was like almost two weeks ofit was growing a quarter system
at Davis, so that's like almost20% of your.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, againeverybody's, he's not going to
make it and if you get offseries you're not going to

(17:28):
graduate in four years.
So it's like I made it.
And then junior year my dad getsdiagnosed with lung cancer.
He's got a white out of hischest so he's got a bunch of
fluid on that one side and they,they drain it and sure enough,
it's got cancer cells in it.
So it's a stage four.
And then he's going throughchemo and stuff and I'm offering
to come home and he's like, no,you got a bigger purpose.

(17:49):
And and the miracle that yearwas I was in a five person dorm
suite and then down the hallwaywas a phone jack.
For folks that don't rememberold phones, you had to pay for
long distance calls and so andyou know, rotary phone phones,
then punch phones, and so Iwould hook up to that and I

(18:10):
would call my dad in the BayArea.
It was a long distance call andI wouldn't get a bill on our
room.
And then I'd go to the officeand I'm like, are you guys
getting the bill for this?
I don't want to make sure youguys get paid.
And it wasn't going anywhere.
So I never got charged fortalking to three hours to my dad
every night that year.
And then junior between juniorsjunior he passed away.
I was, it became paralyzed andI had to carry him in.

(18:33):
Yeah, yeah, so.
And again they were like yeah,he's not.
And I did.
But then the interview processand you've gone through this.
So Georgetown, most expensivemen's school in the United
States.
I hadn't really been back Eastat this point, so, but I had
been to Europe.
Like you said, do you thinkAmerica's old?

(18:54):
But it's not.
You go to Europe and it's likethousands of years old and this
is, you know, 1600 or whatever.
And I hadn't really thoughtabout this.
So one of the interviews waswith the financial aid office
and we're all parked on a woodenbench outside this door and
when we go on you'd move, slidedown to the next spot and I'm

(19:15):
the next one in and I hear thisguy talking and the question was
.
You know how do you pay?
Are you going to pay for yourschool?
And I hear this weird noise andhe says cash, cold, hard cash.
And I'm like okay.
So then I go in and I drop mypen and I lean over to pick it

(19:36):
up and I hear that noise whichwas just the chair squeaking
when you lean forward.
So I'm visiting him, leaningforward and saying, you know,
closer to her face, cash, cold,hard cash.
But that was that moment.
I'm like how am I going to payfor this?
Because my parents are gone andyou know anyway.
So I think I said like, well,military may pay if you know,

(20:00):
whatever way I can do it, I wantto do it.
So luckily I got it.
The Davis thing was crazybecause I interviewed there and
then if you get a thin letter,you know you've been rejected.
And so I had like 18 or 20 thinletters that I could have
wallpapered my room with.
And then I get one from Davisand it says congratulations,

(20:23):
you've not been accepted.
So I'm like, okay, there's,there's still hope.
And then somewhere in thesummer I was waiting for a
roommate to give me a call topick him up, and so I answer the
phone Craig's Taxi Service andand this lady, oh, this is UC
Davis Medical School.
Is Craig there there?
I'm like, oh, just a second,let me go get him.
Same boys, no change.

(20:43):
I'm like she hasn't beenscratching her head like what
was that?
So I got in yeah, so that was amiracle.
And then in in med school.
It was a couple of experiences.
I still was interested incardiothoracic.
I did my own acting internshipwith a group that was downtown
and Sacramento and just realizedyou know, hey, they do
incredible stuff in there,incredibly dedicated at a

(21:04):
seconds moment.
They're in there with peoplebypassing their hearts and stuff
.
But they do really two thingsvalves and bypass, and that's
not technically challenging, butthe brain work and that.
And then being in a VA hospitalwhere a guy had a lung cancer
and started to bleed and he'sbasically drowning and they
couldn't put a tube in histrachea to breathe for him or do

(21:25):
a tracheostomy, and I'm like Iwant to do something that I can
save anybody's life.
Anyway, I can.
And the way we got trained backback in the day in the late 80s
and 90s was, you know, fromhead to toe.
So we learned how to drill ahole, bur hole in the skull and
trauma was huge.
Uc Davis has the highest amountof blood trauma in the United

(21:47):
States.
So not as much penetratingstuff.
But yeah, so it was just I gotto go into general surgery, and
that's what I did.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
I mean, I feel like you were almost destined to go
into general surgery justbecause a significant portion of
your childhood, you were eitherhaving to go to the hospital or
something.
Spending time in surgeons, yeah,true, but I really first off my
prayers go out to you and yourfamily.
Like I know that must have beenreally tough for you when,

(22:15):
especially when you're growingup.
But I, looking from the bottomin and I know I just met you and
everybody seems like thosehardships really created a
person that was very motivated,and it's odd how the world or
the Lord works in mysteriousways.
Totally, I hate that that hadto happen, but I think you've
saved a lot of people in theprocess, so I'm sure they would

(22:37):
be proud of you.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, I think so, thank you for saying that and
grew up part of the mandate.
So I was also an orphan so mynatural mother was in from
Michigan and then six months outshe started to show.
So she would have been shunnedby the Catholic Church.
So she moved to California to afriend and then had me in
Monterey, california, and thenhad me for 10 days.
Let me baptize, because my wifeis one of these techie people

(23:02):
that she could be a PI if youwant needed somebody.
But she found my natural familyand then I've gotten pictures
and been back for reunions andthat kind of stuff.
So great family and it's like Ican't imagine the courage she
had.
So, like I posted for Mother'sDay how many people have two
moms?
It's great.
And my mom would have passedaway tomorrow.

(23:23):
Literally she did the night hedied.
I'd been there the weekendbefore for Mother's Day and it
was kind of the first time, Ithink, because I was just one of
those rebellious sons that Ialways gave my dad credit for
teaching me to be a betterempath and learn about my own
body language and behavior andtone of voice.
But really my mom was thesounding board or the punching

(23:45):
board.
So and that was like the firstweekend that we just had a great
time and think I was now ayoung man to her Right.
So she grew up in World War IIwith, I think, 12, when the one
of bombings were going on.
So it's like just blessed.
But, like I said in my book, Ifelt like I was like any half of

(24:06):
a car and my mom and dad werepace cars and they would just
they let me out, drove off, Ihit the gas and there I go.
But, yeah, and then, just beingrebellious, I tortured one of my
friends during a summer workprogram and he'll packered.
My dad works there and he wasgoing to seminary school and I'm
like, hey, what do you think alove's up on starway to have?
I just ask because I knewenough to like drive him crazy

(24:29):
and ask about his faith.
Yeah, I wasn't as solid at thatpoint, obviously so.
But I would say, look myparents.
I'm a better doctor because Iknow what death is like and what
you go through when you loseyour first parent and you bonded
the second one and realizeparents aren't a mortal.
And then you lose the secondone and you realize, hey, I'm

(24:51):
probably not a mortal either.
So yeah, you get perspective.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, I've, because my childhood was a little
twisted as well.
But I always have said, likethe brighter side of it is that
all superheroes have tragicbackstories, like you don't get
to be the superhero withoutsomething going on.
And you're really a testamentto that because with all the
missionary work and then thetime I mean trauma surgeon,

(25:15):
that's, it's pretty impressive.
So that pace car, they reallyset the pace.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
You're going that route.
You matched in the ER.
Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, so let's hope we both love a little chaos.
Honestly.
Why I love emergency medicinetoo is that feeling of whenever
you are in that criticalposition I kind of feel more
calm than I would be likescatterbrained, like I'm like
things have to be perfect,obviously, but are not perfect,
but things have we've got tomake do, but I just can like

(25:45):
really compartmentalize Right,and that's kind of what makes it
fun, like I, instead of goingall crazy, I'm like, oh, this is
like really neat.
Yeah, he did come in with agunshot piercing the diaphragm,
but like now we've got, nowwe're on the ball, right.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
And you know, I mean ATLS, right.
So it's a, your brain gets intocompartmentalizing and
algorithm, airway breathing,circulation defects and
environment type stuff, so yeah,and you keep your brain on that
and then it's kind of likeKevin Costner's movie I forget,
for the love of the game, Ithink where he's trying to pitch

(26:21):
a perfect, perfect game and heyou know his verb is just quote
of the mechanism, right.
So you got to, you got to checkout and just focus and then
that's that's.
There's a part of the book thatI wrote that goes through
really kind of harrowing cases,one of which was like a six year
old.
You know, you, you've done allyou can do, and then you pull

(26:43):
back the drapes because you'veopen their chest to the open
heart massage and then exploretheir belly and there was
nothing there, it's just a headinjury, and, yeah, that becomes
real.
You weep.
Yeah, you have to experience.
I think If you overcompartmentalize, it's like it's

(27:03):
just gonna come back to huntyou.
But yeah, I, memorializingthings is key, taking time and
we're experiencing and goingthrough it, and that stuff is
important.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yes, yeah, and I I definitely want to get back to
your book.
I actually the thecardiothoracic thing, the fact
it was funny that you had wantedto do that, because I Actually,
when I was younger I was like,oh, this would be so much fun.
And then my first surgeryrotation I had like two weeks
down there or in thecardiothoracic unit and the

(27:34):
surgeries were so long, rightand and you're standing and I
was like and I had no rolebesides just standing, scrubbed
up.
So, I just was in the way thetubes were running like through
my legs, my hands were like uphere and I was like this one's
on here as much fun as like thegeneral.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
No, absolutely not.
No.
And neurosurgery is even worsebecause now you're under a
microscope.
Yeah, you can't see what'sgoing on if you're just standing
there pulling some retractorand like, okay, how's it going?
Oh, another eight hours, okay,great, yeah.
Yeah, turn up my stockingsplease.
I need.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
My god yeah.
And I'm sure, because with me,I'm sure residency was even a
lot tougher because they've madea lot of like concessions or
Changes to the whole schedule sothat there can be more time off
for the residents, right?
But even now you're gonna beworking well over the average

(28:38):
Like a American.
So how was your residencywhenever you were okay?

Speaker 2 (28:42):
so, yeah, I was blessed.
So six years, one research year.
So I did transplant.
So I was like putting thyroidin the Mice and pancreases and
rats and that kind of stuff.
So I got some micro surgery wasjust really fun.
I drink too much coffee.
There's no way I could do it.
Yeah, you should develop thistremor under a 10 power

(29:04):
microscope.
Or you drink alcohol the nightbefore.
I'll give you a tremor the nextday that you can't see to the
IP.
You'll see it when you're doingthat.
But yeah, there was no 80 hourweek.
That was just starting to comein the mid, probably like 1994,
95.
So I mean I'd work 164 hour.

(29:24):
But I'm just like you where I,I loved it.
I the problem with being onevery other day.
She missed half the cases.
Yeah, right.
So but yeah, I got marriedduring that time and had two
kids while I was in residencyand one after that.
So it was like, yeah, you canstill live and and, and the

(29:49):
wives will say, yeah, they feellike single moms a lot of the
time.
But but it just I mean the drawand the thing and because it's
just so life-changing you know Ithink, but it's also can go the
other way.
So it's Remember when I satdown with one of my professors
to say, look, I really want togo here, and he was like the one
the world renowned pancreaticSurgeons and dr Fry and he's

(30:14):
like.
His first question was what areyou gonna do when your patient
you've operated on dice?
And my answer was I'll justknow I did the best job I could
do that day.
And you know it's kind of inGod, not that you're not
watching for a complication ofyour own thing, but it's not
like you just walk away.

(30:34):
But you know, at some point Godheals that wound.
I've heard somebody and then Iclose the skin and all the
miraculous things that ourbodies do Do not part of what I
can do.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yeah, it's amazing.
It's amazing like how will andJust divine intervention or I
don't know, it's something thathas nothing to do with you put
the groundwork in, but it's not,it's out of your hands, right,
which is just amazing.
It's also amazing, like I don'tthink people understand that

(31:07):
when you say you worked well,over a hundred hours a week, the
Average, or there's only 20 ifthere's 24 hours a day and seven
days a week.
I just looked up as that's 168hours, right, and if you sleep,
you know, eight hours a day,which never really happens,
that's 56 hours.
So that means you have sixhours to do whatever you would

(31:29):
want to do, right, includingdriving home or doing whatever.
So you know, and so it's likeyou gotta make a lot of
sacrifices.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, you do.
Yeah, yeah, Not all serviceswere like that, so it was.
But like for for trauma was 24on, 24 off.
It was really Like 36 hours onbecause you wouldn't want to
leave your intern.
Really are you know, without allthe sky getting done and and I
remember it's, this is also inthe book Blaisdale.

(31:59):
Dr Blaisdale was like one ofthe pioneers out of San
Francisco for trauma all the 19late 60s and early 70s, vietnam
war riots at Berkeley, etc.
And they did.
They came up with a trauma teamthat only took care of trauma
and then they published theirdata comparing it to Orange
County and the preventable deathrate in Orange County was like

(32:22):
2037% and it was 0.1% in SanFrancisco.
So that began trauma centersacross the United States.
But yeah, and you need the samething in Sacramento was just
make it all come to us and thatguy's work work ethic was just
crazy.
So yeah, but yeah, and I wascoming on for trauma and as an

(32:44):
intern and he stands, everybodyhe believed in beginning around
in the ER.
Trauma surgeon should knowevery patient in ER so he can be
helpful to the ER docs and knowwhat's going on.
If there's a belly, that's,that's not good to help expedite
.
You know, whatever, someoneneeds a wine or something or you

(33:04):
know, be there and be helpfuland know what's going on.
So they would present everysingle patient and yes, so I'm
coming on and I don't, I guess Idon't look all that good and he
stands us all around, allmedical students like who looks
the worst of this team andthey're like pointing at me and
I'm like he's come, he's comingon service.
Thank you, dr Blaisdell.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Oh it's, that's amazing.
It probably actually was verybeneficial, not only for you to
see all the patients but alsoyour interactions with the
doctors and to know them.
And then that allows you tolike hand off, like you don't
really understand what yourteachers are really doing until

(33:49):
you look back and you're like,oh, this guy was actually, he
had a whole plan.
Because that handoff to betweenthe ER and trauma surgery when
something serious comes in is avery big deal, like it's.
Sometimes it's hard to explainthat where there's only a
certain amount of time andthere's only certain things
certain people can do and so,like you need to get them to the

(34:12):
OR but you have all these wallsor whatever that need have to
come down first.
You can't just run someonestraight through the ER and
right, right and and withresidents I know, I've saw, I've
seen that it's just like,especially if it's a new
resident, if people aren't astrusting or whatever it, it just
slows down the time and that'sonly participation.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah, no, it's in my, my approach to leadership as a
team, and I may be thequarterback, but I'm no more
kind of like.
You know Christianity there'sthe head, which is God, and
there's the body, and all thoseparts are essential to the
survival of the entire body,right?
So same with the team that's inthere in the ER and then the OR

(34:55):
when they go off to theoperating room.
So it's like I can't do thatwithout Other people doing their
job, whether they're puttingthe EKG leads on putting in IVs,
strong labs, getting x-rays,portables, you know, doing parts
of the physical exam that thenlet you know, people know what's

(35:15):
going on and yeah, those arepeople blown here, or you know
stuff.
So it's like, yeah, and thattransition, yeah, because I mean
you guys do a great job and youtake a lot of ownership over
what you're doing.
So it's like there's a point atwhich you know the reins get
handed and it's like, yeah, okay, and then you don't always get
to hear the follow-up.
So I always come backafterwards and go, okay, this is

(35:37):
what we found.
And because that's the greatthing about my job is, I get
closure and I get instantquality control, because I
thought it was this and I go in,and it was something else that
needed to get fixed, but it'snot what I thought it was that
helps me refine my skills downthe road.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
I'm sure they actually really appreciate that
because, I don't know, it justallows for you to have a better
connection with them and Becausethey, they really won't get to
see it and it's weird, it'severybody wants to handle the
situation and so it's hard topass up something and I'm sure,
as I said to, it's hard to passUm, it's the next person, even

(36:16):
if it is the situation.
So right, I mean in the realityis.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
You know, if I'm the lead, I shouldn't be doing a lot
of procedural stuff, because Ineed to pay attention to the
whole thing and when it needs togo somewhere else, we need to
run a CT to get this ruled out,you know, and trauma is a
disease of rule outs, so it'slike black box.
What's going on in there and wedon't know.
And we have an idea, but youknow it's real bad because their
vital signs are horrible orwhatever.
So you got to do somethingquick, get that golden hour,

(36:46):
mm-hmm.
Okay so if you had two kidsduring residency.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
How did you balance that?
Work and like home life andMaybe sleeping, yeah, yeah, well
, I, I, we had some control over.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
We would do like a two-month block of stuff, so it
would be vascular or there'd bethoracic, cardiothoracic,
there'd be peeds, we didn'treally rotate through the burn
unit, but so different thingsand so, knowing dates of Worth
and stuff, I could take thatmonth off for you to month
vacation Each year so I makesure I time those there or

(37:21):
lighter services that don't haveIs demanding a call and all
that stuff, and so that worked.
Actually I was really lucky.
So, yeah, I was on pediatricsurgery when my first one was
born.
So it was like, hey, you know,which was also weird, because in
the Lamaze class, yeah, likeplease do not come in.

(37:41):
Yeah, no, there was a couplethat was there and their baby
had some weird heart defects sowe had to put them on ECMO.
So I knew these people.
Now I'm helping operate ontheir baby, putting these big
tubes in their neck andsacrificing a carotid artery and
a Juggler vein.
I'm like how could you do this?
You do that in an adult,they're gonna stroke.
Yeah, and yeah it was it wasinteresting.

(38:05):
I've had some friends reach outto me Now that I'm actually a
doctor now.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
And they, they say, because I guess I was Finding
myself a little bit as a kid aswell, and they were like you
know what, I'm not sure ifyou'll ever see my kid and like
the good.
My answer is always like thegood thing is, if you're seeing
me, you're gonna be desperateenough that you'll let me do
whatever.
I mean, right, yeah, yeah, wesee people at their worst.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Yeah, and I'm understanding that yeah, yeah,
no, no, that's.
I mean, that's the.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
The crazy thing is you actually get acclimated to
seeing people at their worst andthen you can kind of pick up on
subtle things Because of it butyeah, you're always on the same
page.
Settle things because of it butyeah, you're always gonna see
them At the worst.
So if someone's acting up oracting like a fool, it really is
easy to understand, becauseit's they're absolute worst day.
If it wasn't the worstexperience they wouldn't have

(38:58):
come to hospital scared to death.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
I mean, obviously they're coming in to get poked
and I can't stand needles myself, so I can stick anybody, no
problem, but Keep them away fromme.
Yeah, I wait for my tb test aslong as I can and All those
things.
Yeah, it's pretty funny.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Like, just because we've been talking about the or
and everything, do you have anymusic that you play specifically
when you're in the or?

Speaker 2 (39:21):
I.
I'm a classic rock and roll guy, but I'll listen to anything.
So I know if you're playingsome stairway to heaven and the
but sometimes like it reallyawkward, queens, you know,
another one bites, the dustcomes on Because you're about to
go to sleep.
Probably not like great or acbc.
Or who's the one that hascalled me a doctor?

(39:45):
Dr Field, yeah, I know that'snot like true, yeah, yeah, or
somebody I'm like Although it'sfunny because I think I was a
chief resident and there weremedical students in there and
Jimi Hendrix comes on and I goname this artist and none of
them get out of my operatingroom until you can find out who
this artist is.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
That's awesome yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
But the reality is anesthesia's got control, that
it's like.
You know they're not scrubbedin and I've got the, the radio
right behind and oh yeah,they're just they're running the
show.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
It's either that or it's.
Usually I found that it'sreally.
It's somebody else controllingthe music.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
I remember one of the things on the mission trips
that I do.
It's called the circle of fire.
So we get done at the end ofthe day.
Honduras has nice cigars, soI'll buy those, bring those home
, give me the people, and I'llbring them back for the first
day and then usually buy more.
But all the guys will gatheraround the other day and talk
about where they saw God and wecall it the circle of fire.

(40:40):
So, and I'll I'm admitting thispublicly, I guess I'll bring an
algeene of a leader of whiskeyand it'll have a medical tape on
there that says beta 9 prep,and then another one that smells
like it's vodka and it's, andwe'll just sip on that at night
and just talk about what we saw.

(41:02):
And you know, just guys talking.
I remember we stayed up tilllate At two o'clock and at the
end the one guy who actually isBuddhist so it's fun that it was
good to hear about whatBuddhism is in his culture but
it was like, hey, all you guysthat have married and gone
through a divorce, could youhang?
I got some questions.
I'm like, oh God, give me aword there for like another two

(41:24):
hours of just being a brother tosomebody and giving them advice
.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
It's amazing how and I think we're actually kind of
figuring it out more morerecently but how camaraderie and
everything really goes to yourgeneral health, like so, stuff
like that.
While some people would say, oh, cigars are bad for you, oh,
alcohol is bad for you, but they, we found that, like those

(41:50):
interactions though that usuallyare that, and sometimes that's
what drags men, people, intodoing stuff like that, that is
very helpful.
I think they just releasedsomething that said that like
loneliness and was just theequivalent of smoking.
I think it was a couple packs aday, which was insane.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Yeah, look at the, I think, women between the ages of
25 to 45.
At a six fold increase insuicide with COVID right, all
this sheltering in there's athere's a risk benefit to doing
that.
Be gregarious and socialize.
And yeah, it's not good to beisolated in a room and watching

(42:32):
YouTube all the time.
Yeah, certainly not.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
And it's just weird.
You have to play.
We're all, oddly, animals inthe system.
We have to play to who we are.
I want to.
I know you're a very busy man,that, so I want to get to your
your book because that was veryinteresting.
How was like the writingprocess?
Because I think that it saidsomething about you having a

(42:57):
reading disorder.
Right, no, about until muchlater in your life, yeah, just
like eight years ago.
What was the reading disorder?

Speaker 2 (43:05):
So I just read slow.
I mean first grade teacher heneeds to read more.
Second grade teacher he needsto read more.
Third grade Walk into a dinnerlit room and there's a screen
with words that look like youknow, star Wars at the beginning
and land far away line.
And I can never now keep you,keep up with the speed to slow

(43:25):
it down, or just our positive.
You know I hate titled movieswhere it's different language
and so I just all I knew is Ididn't, I didn't read quickly,
so they all horribly.
After a couple of girls got upthere reading that 50 million
words per minute and I'm likejumping lines and back and forth
.
And then our youngest son wasjust kind of getting in trouble

(43:47):
at school.
He's really smart, active, likea boy is, and then he get done
with something that's half hourlong and then a minute and a
half.
But so we had him tested andhe's ADHD but he's also dyslexic
.
And then when I were readingwhat the symptoms were and what,
how that's a disability readingwise, I go, that's what I do

(44:10):
Every test I've ever taken andyou take a million as a doc, I
would look at the length of timeI had, the number of questions
and I would worry more aboutkeeping up that.
How many seconds per question?
And then I'm cats, all thosethings I'm like, and it was
distracting and I just but itwasn't like a disability.
I kind of say it's like havingpolio with a atrophied leg.

(44:32):
As long as I'm walking aroundand have a standing or desk job,
it's not a disability, it'sjust what.
It is.
Same with me.
And then the challenge to me wasI did a Facebook survey of
should I do an audible in thebook?
Yes, 100%.
Should I do the audible becauseI've got a deep voice and
people like to hear it orwhatever?

(44:53):
Yeah, I'm like.
It was like one guy from highschool said no, have a coyote do
it, he's better.
And I'm like you know, and asI'm going through it, I use this
place.
That's awesome.
You have a coach and he was atheatrical director, so he could
.
You know I have a fairly likewhen I present medical

(45:14):
conferences and stuff.
It's just like so monotone thatI was like boring.
But he could see thefrequencies though they're
narrow, they're definitely youcan tell emotion and the voice
because there's some pretty hardthings to talk about.
So I got through it.
Yeah, so I didn't know.
I had that until eight yearsago when we diagnosed our
youngest son.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
So you had already written the book correct, I
already written the book.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
So, and then writing the book.
You know, again, these are justlike coincidence, luck, lucky.
Those are God moments.
Einstein would say, coincidenceis just God remaining anonymous
.
My grandma, who I took toSacramento Kings games for 15
years.
You got to write this book.

(45:59):
You motivate people.
Look at the adversity you'vegone through.
You know other people have doneworse than and need that input.
And then I went to a GrantCardone 10 X conference as
business and heard Kevin Hartspeak about business stuff and
Magic Johnson and John Travoltaand all these other people that

(46:20):
are stars.
But, and like four people said,you need to be on stage, you
need to write this book and youneed to be up there talking to
people and giving them hope.
And then at that conference Imet someone who uses program
that you can put on your phonecall rev, and you just like
chapter one, whatever the titleis, you just begin speaking and

(46:41):
then 10 minutes later you got atranscript of that and then you
can put that into word and thenyou can just write it and add to
it and realize how stupid yousound when you speak Just off
your, off the cuff, right?
So, and then I hadn't.
He also recommended an editor,so that's where I would send it
to her, and then she correctedfor language and stuff.

(47:04):
But then she'd write commentslike what's this?
That I don't quite understand.
You clarify that?
And chapter by chapter bychapter or a year and a half
later, it was done.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
Hmm, that's actually.
That feels like it was prettyquick.
I'm really impressed with, likethe technology where you can
like speak into it, because Iget a roadblock when I'm typing
and, trust me, I know editingthese podcasts and everything.
I'm like, oh I am.
I sound so stupid right there.
Really, god, I wish you hadthought before you started

(47:36):
speaking.
But just like where you canlike talk and then edit
afterwards, because I find thatsome of the process is like
while I'm typing, my brain'sthinking too far or thinking
about the sentence.
I'm like I'll change thatsentence already and then I've
lost myself, right.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Yeah, I think that the typing for the dyslexia, you
don't use your cortex to read,so, like there's a limited
number of characters per minute,you can.
You can go through if you readusing the cortex of your brain
and dyslexia is supposed to beusing a more grey matter, and
it's not as fast, at a higherspeed, but it's not as organized
.
So, you're right, you lose,lose where you're going, or, and

(48:16):
I think typing for me, makingit manual, like Lincoln,
president Lincoln, would he getpissed off about something?
I mean I can't imagine having acountry that's that's the most
divided.
I mean we're killing each otherright in mass quantities.
And he would write stuff downand then he'd sit down and he'd
read it out loud, so we'd usedifferent parts of his brain to

(48:37):
process what he was writing andthen usually sit on that,
because it was writtenemotionally, and then go back
and revise it.
And sometimes he never handedthose letters to anybody or
sometimes he did get them to thepeople that he was trying to
speak to.
So, or speech yeah, so, yeah,so our brains are.
Our brains are funny.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yeah, it's super interesting.
I mean, even when I was doingthe interview process for
residency, you know, first theysay you should already know,
kind of, what you're going tosay about certain things.
They're going to ask you aboutwhat are your leadership things,
and so I like typed it out andthen me and my buddy we did like
a mock interview.
Of course we're recording eachother so that we can go back and

(49:18):
watch.
I was like, oh my God, I'm justokay.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
The whole time.
That's painful.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Right after that I was able to pick up like your
brain fixes what you want to.
You hear ohm.
Too many times.
You're like, yes, you're goingto stop saying that and I think
it really helped me.
But what were you saying aboutyour wife?

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Yeah, no, the um, exactly I, my brain pauses and
then you go stop that.
You got to stop that.
So yeah, I'm better at, if it'sjust a storytelling thing, to
keep it going without a pause.
But if there's like, if I'mtrying to do something, like I
did a health coaching thing andcreated a web page just for docs

(50:04):
, you know, you know you can dothose MDs, nurse practitioners
and PAs so that we could do openon adulterated peer review of
health coaching and health inAmerica and and my wife uses a
program that you lose the weight, your diabetes goes away, or
inflammatory disease.
You know, fat is inflammatory,we all know that.

(50:25):
But it's like just amazing,anecdotally, seeing these
people's diseases like lupus andstuff gone.
And you know, right now we'retalking about the youth.
They've got half the grip,strength, strength their great
grandfather did and testosterone.
That's half the and that'sthat's.
That's overweight.

(50:45):
I think that's just.
Our kids are 20% now obese.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
I don't know the exact number, but I know it.
I thought in America it wasactually higher, like per, but
maybe and like other like in theworld, it's more than likely.
But I thought America was evenmore, which that might be, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
about kids, maybe that's like adult populations
like over 40% now, with 80something percent overweight.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
And that definitely affects your testosterone.
Like some people might work out, but they don't like work and
do laborious jobs people used todo all the time Me, my granddad
.
He's retired and he still worksoutside almost like every day,
like that's just his enjoymenttime.
I think it's so he can get awayfrom my grandmother, but he

(51:36):
just loves a friend that doesthat.
Yeah, he just that's just whathe does.
He'll build things in a day.
It's very impressive.
Now I'm like you also have afib, so let's tone it down.
On building a bridge in a day,you could take it.
You can make it a two day thing, right?
Like we think our consciousnessis the whole body, but it's
really the body and you'reliving in like a small part.

(51:58):
The part that is you is just asmall part in the brain.
It's not the whole brain,because you can feel like driven
to do things and that's yourbody, or the Lord or whatever.
I don't, maybe both.
So you really have to followthat to those little proddings
instead of just being like oh,this is, I'm just going to watch
YouTube all day.
Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
I was talking to a friend I grew up from, two and a
half on yesterday and his mom'sgot Alzheimer's.
And it's interesting.
So down syndrome andAlzheimer's or dementia for that
matter at all Towards the endof your brain.
So there's a connection to that.
Your organs, you forget how towork.

(52:40):
Like your bladder doesn't work,your kidneys start to not work,
it's like it's not that you'rethinking you know, or that
you're mentally even controllingyour kidneys, or anyway, it's
all autonomic stuff, right, it'sjust that's what it does, but
somehow there's a link betweenour brain and organ function.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Yeah, and it's also amazing that we've realized too
that sometimes it's like what weare eating, what we are doing,
is causing the inflammation.
I know they link some kind ofdiet, like if you are having
chronic inflammation it candispose you to Alzheimer's later
on.
And even if you have like gutinflammation or like chronic

(53:23):
disease or all sort of colitis,like if you change your diet.
You see, if you change yourdiet, a lot of those people do
like the carnivore and then theystart cutting things out.
They realized that there wassomething that was actually that
they were eating that you justdidn't realize, didn't sit with
them, right.
You know, even when you'retaught in medicine there's a

(53:44):
genetic component.
So you're when you're tellingsomebody about it, you're like
maybe this is just how you areRight.
It's really you're eating toomuch.
Yeah, broccoli or whatever isnot.
Maybe broccoli is probablyreally good for you, but you're
eating whatever jump food, someprocess thing.
That is just not good for yourgut.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
No, I mean, the latest American College of
Surgeons Clinical Congress had alot of different courses but
one of them which is reallyinteresting.
So you know we're looking atculture within medicine, right.
So racism, equality, thosethings, and one of the questions
is kind of the nature nurturething, right?

(54:24):
So in the black culture, suchcommunity, they have a higher
instance of hypertension andstroke, heart disease.
So how much of that is becauseof where they are culturally?
You know it'd be an interestingstudy.
So say, those folks that havegotten out of the ghetto or

(54:47):
whatever you want to title thecommunity that they're gangs and
stuff Does, does it kind oflike?
The Japanese is a great example.
They have a lot of fish thathave a very high incidence of
stomach cancer.
They moved to America.
Now that goes away.
Now I have a high incidence ofcolon cancer versus what we have
.
So diet has a huge influence ongastric and colon cancer.

(55:09):
But it's interesting and Ithink that's what's going to
happen is that we're going totease out how much of the things
that have happened to thatculture have had an impact on
their health and it really wouldgive a lot of impact, it
changes, it does go away.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean it's just amazing howmedicine kind of builds on each
other, because you I think theysomebody told me recently which
made me kind of worry, becausethey said something like 15 or
20 years after medical school,half of the stuff you learn will
either be wrong or change.
And I was like, oh crap,because I I'm like holding on to

(55:48):
that stuff now and they're likethat's not what you're going to
really care about at all.
Right, it's all going to change.
You're going to realize thatwhatever they taught, so you
just have to be adaptable in themoment, because, I mean, we're
just constantly learning newthings and it's it's the beauty
of it.
There's something beautifulabout not knowing.
Everything you know gives yousomething to work for.
So it's a really interestinglife that we live being.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
Yeah, it is, I mean the classic example I think that
everybody that's listening canrelate to is babies.
You lay them on your back, youlay on their side, you lay on
their stomach, right you know,with for crib deaths and it's
like they went back and forthevery year.
It's like I think, finally nowthe sides are OK.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
So yes, I mean yeah, we constantly change us.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
then Best practices not always, and they're all
different.
They're going to make it justfine.
Just love them.
I met some old couple once.
I got what's the secret to goJust base your kids in love and
be there for them.
Yeah, and then and then.
Since then it's like,especially having five kids,

(56:52):
it's like they learn more by notwhat I tell them about, by the
example I portray Exactly.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
It's amazing how that's what people remember,
right Like the kind of man youwere in, right, yeah, yeah.
So how old is?

Speaker 2 (57:09):
your oldest.
She may first just turn 32.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Oh, OK, I guess it's 15.
Yeah, oh, big gap then.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
So 32, 27,.
Nicole turned 25 in June andthen 17 and 15.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
That's how my little sister she is, so I'm 30, but
she's 13 now, and so when I wascarrying her around, she's maybe
one or something.
They're like oh I didn't know,you had a kid already.
Yeah, no, yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
The oldest played volleyball, so we'd be all over,
actually, Denver and Dallas anda bunch of places all over the
United States.
But yeah, we're standing in atMcDonald's and my wife is
younger than I am and so theylook like not quite sisters, but
enough of a difference thatthey're definitely my wife's
older.
But but she's Chelsea's holdingthe doubters, holding our baby.

(58:08):
She's the 17-year-old now andsome lady comes up.
That's horrible.
You're way too young to have achild.
What are you thinking?
She's like oh no, it's, that'smy stepmom right here.
She's this is my dad's kid.
They flip it on you.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
They're like you're way too old to be having a child
, but you know what?

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Hey, they keep you young because they need to.
I mean, I'm not, I stay inshape so they can keep doing
stuff with them, play water polo.
So I have to get in and I'm nota good, exactly yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
I don't know.
I, because I'm from like a bigfamily, I'm the oldest of seven,
so there's just something Idon't have any kids myself.
Honestly, that's probably agood thing.
I'm going to do your method andjust wait till residency, but I
just have been waiting, yeah,because their kids are awesome,
but it's a lot when you're goingthrough all the transition
periods of your life, andbecause my parents had me like

(59:03):
very young, so I can I rememberthem like my first memories.
They're only like 24 or 25.
And so I know for a fact thatI'm older than they were when I,
like, could start rememberingthings, and they were just kids.
So that I look back I'm like,oh, I'm glad I got exposed to
that, but, heaven forbid, Idon't know if I right, it's hard

(59:27):
it is hard, and timing.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
I think timing is never the right time, right so
but I will say they're my fivegreatest accomplishments.
So, oh, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Well, I want not to change topics, but I just wanted
to kind of ask you how did youfind because you've you've gone
from almost like you've beenthis trauma surgeon for years,
then you motivational speechspeaker, you are, now you're
also a co-host for radio showand stuff how did you find your
inspiration to accomplish allthis?

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
So I think I'm an oldest daughter played
volleyball and she was on a clubteam.
So several different highschools and they would go to a
Bible study with all these kidsthat were in high school, and so
then they went to this churchand that's the church that I got
picked up with, to go to Haitiand under us, and so I got back
into Christianity and I thinknow the inspiration is just a

(01:00:26):
second calling, so to say.
It's not just serving with myhands and my brain operating,
but now it's just being therefor people speaking and a light
in the darkness.
You know, give hope, like thelast chapter in the book.
If you don't read the book atall, you just read the last
chapter is going to give youhope.
It's about a friend of mine whowe would go to Pasadena,

(01:00:47):
california, every year for atrauma conference and he didn't
believe, he had no faith and hestarted, he retired and was
dying from a Parkinson's diseasethat was really accelerated,
and I'm not going to give awaythe story, but yeah, you'll see,
there is hope in this world andI'm a stronger Christian now.
So it's just, I'm not pushinganybody, but I'm there for

(01:01:11):
answers, right?
So if you, if you're strugglingin life.
We all want to belong in theworld, we all bleed the same and
I just feel a calling to bethere for people.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
So, people, you'll have to buy the book.
What's the name?

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
It's saved.
And then the subtitle is trueaccounting of trauma surges
miracles in his life.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
So I'm going to have to check out the audiobook now
because I do have audible.
I just find sometimes I'm likedoing things and I can just
listen and it'll be like we'rehaving a conversation again.
I think for one, just hearingyour life story is it's pretty
amazing.
You come through, you comethrough a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
Yeah, yeah it's, it's hard to believe, you know so.
And just just again, just likeyou asked me about residency, I
went through like the firstthree years where everything was
done, opened big incision, andthen the last three were with a
camera, right, so it's likeminimally invasive stuff.
And now they've got robotswhich are pretty cool and I've

(01:02:13):
been trained on those.
So it's really weird to stepaway from operating table and
look under a thing and rotateyour wrists and pinch things and
and it works.
So I mean, medicine is justalways changing, so, but so is
the world.
So you know, and I think Gen Zis just looking for places to

(01:02:33):
belong and and faith, I mean, ifyou're, if you think you got to
ask the question okay, how dowe get here?
Why are we here?
Do we have a purpose, or youknow, and those things, and so
just to help.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Yeah, oh, I'm going to butcher it because me, coming
back from Greece, I canremember that Aristotle said
something about, like he madethe change on Socrates, but it
was.
Socrates said something aboutif you can't question to
understand life, then there's nopoint living.
And then Aristotle is like,well, there's no point in

(01:03:10):
questioning anything if youdon't have a plan.
And but, all that being said,like it, it really is.
Like you, we all are going towonder what we are, purposes or
because we need purpose.
It's weird, I you, if you don'thave purpose, you feel.
I mean, if I sit on the table.
I feel like I'm about to drivemyself insane.

(01:03:32):
I can't be left with my ownthoughts, almost yes.
So I think finding that is thekey, the key really to happiness
and life.
Like you just got to figure outwhat it is, so I do have one
more question for you, though.
What were some of the likeleadership lessons?

(01:03:52):
So, coming from managing thetrauma room to now making the
book and going on missionarytrips, what were some of the
leadership lessons that you wereable to come away with
throughout this process?
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
So I'll give you the biggest one.
So one is leaders of teamthough.
You're the captain and you gointo a meeting and you should
have an idea of where somethingshould go, as far as a process
or review or whatever, and theneither facilitate, where you're
just letting it happen,naturally but trying to speed it
along, or mediate where youhave an opinion and you're

(01:04:30):
trying to guide it to thatmiddle ground.
And the reason for that also isthat if I have a teammate that
didn't do quite well, they'regoing to feel horrible that they
let down the team.
So they have skin in the gameand I don't have to say anything
to some of them.
They just feel bad that theydidn't do as well as they needed

(01:04:52):
to right.
And the second thing is alwayslisten to both sides of the
story.
So we had a case where Doc was aleader of oncology group.
He leaves for vacation, whichhe hadn't done in like 20 years
for two weeks, goes to Europe,comes back.
One of his partners complainedto the CEO that she didn't have

(01:05:13):
the same contract that herhusband, who's a pulmonologist,
did, and why not?
And so I mean the board and thephysician panel were ready to
just impale this person, theleader, and I'm like, has
anybody asked this doctor whathis side of the story is?
And so no, so I go, I'll goover.

(01:05:34):
And it turns out I ended upbringing them both in the same
room and their stories both madesense.
He had offered her a contractbut there was some things going
on that that made herpotentially liable for something
and she didn't want thatbecause she was.
I think she was a professionalfor her, so she was used to
being employed by knowing thisinstitution and not on your own

(01:05:56):
where you have to understand thecontract.
So she legitimately did.
You know, he did offer her andhe was like, well, open his
books and I'm not holdinganything back.
So he was completely honest,she was completely honest.
They're both were right, theyboth had, but it wasn't grounds
to, like, you know, firesomebody or, you know, telling
them they're doing the wrongthing.

(01:06:16):
They're both doing the rightthings.
And just there was amisunderstanding, and that
happens a lot of times.
We were at this, this coursefor some reason, or hospital, or
now I want to do this BillAdamski thing, which was a
retreat, and there was an ERgroup that had this
misconception for 20 years ofyou did this and I, and it

(01:06:37):
didn't happen that way and theright people were there at the
right time to go.
No, this is what I saw, andeverything got resolved after 20
years of these people havinghorrible feelings about each
other and like, wow, listen toboth sides.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Yeah, yeah, we may be doing even more now than ever.
Coming across to the otherperson's side and just seeing
their point of view it reallydoes make the world of
difference, because you come tofind out, like in an argument if
you listen to one person saytheir side of an argument, it
really seems like the otherperson's the bad guy.
But when they are both together, some kind of compromise and

(01:07:15):
I've done it where you knowsomebody irritates me and then
I'm telling it to somebody elseI've only said the things that
they said that were bad, not myresponse to the bad thing,
especially if you can be a levelheaded middleman.
You can actually you can bringpeople together where they would
be on two opposite ends of thespectrum and they can find

(01:07:38):
common ground.
But if there's not anybody tokind of listen to either one of
the sides, then there will notbe common ground.
So you said 20 years will go by, nothing will happen, they
won't speak to each other.
So I really like that lessonbecause we need that more, not
just in healthcare but really insociety in general, because

(01:08:02):
choosing sides is not the way toget it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
We're all in this together, yeah, I mean, I think
that's what's going on insociety.
They're so passionate and angry.
I'd love to just walk aroundsome quad area and just walk up.
Why do you think society is soangry and quick to be passionate
about things?
Just give people's response,yeah, or see what they say.

(01:08:27):
I mean because my wife waswalking out of Costco and she
said a kid was.
You know, one of his mom hadfive kids and the other one just
kind of burst because they weretired and needed to go to sleep
and was protesting, and that'swhat she said.
And then a lady in her trunklowered and said you're a racist
and she's like why.
You know, people just jump toconclusions and that's needed.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
Take it easy, take it easy.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
Yeah, you don't know what the other persons going
through, right, I think,angering them or doing, you know
, putting yourself on theopposite side of them, never and
it never says it, just itessentially just starts a war,
like instead of us comingtogether.
Yeah, and I feel like if youasked everybody, if you went

(01:09:14):
around and you asked people whatwas angering them so much, I
think a lot of people wouldprobably just be like social
media or the internet, for somereason, has leached into a lot,
of, a lot of people's psyche.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean, it doesn't matter what
side you're listening to, it'sinflammatory on either side.
It's like my dad had.
He called it the three steps.
So, and it's exactly what youwere saying Someone says
something offensive to you, yourfirst steps forward to throw a
punch right.
Don't take that step.
Take a step back and askyourself why you feel that way.

(01:09:51):
And then take the third stepback and say why did they behave
that way?
What's going on in their life?
Someone brodewages you andbreaks you know, breaks in front
of you or cut you off, or maybethey're going, they've got an
emergency, who knows?
I don't know if it's in theirlife.
Just try not to be negative, Iguess.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
Yeah, oh, it's amazing how that you can diffuse
that amygdala or those emotions.
When you just start to putyourself in the other person's
shoes, you're like, oh yeah,they probably were, they might
have had an emergency.
And then you go I've hademergencies before and they're
like, oh yeah, okay, well, I'mnot angry anymore.
So yeah, dr Thurr, it was greatspeaking to you.

(01:10:34):
I don't want to take up much ofyour time because I know you're
busy and no, no, hey, I waslooking so forward to this
because it takes you back.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
You know, I get to relive where you are in your
life and it's just that was suchan amazing time and so good to
see you.
I think one of the podcasts,your fiance got to interview you
, so that was fun.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
Oh yeah, she sounds like a great lady.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
So, man, I wish you all life, and if you ever want
to be back on, I'm always there.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
Of course, of course.
We'll be in touch then and,everybody, I want you to go
check out his book Save.
And what is the name of theradio show Raising?

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Expectations.
It's on BBS, so it's BritishBroadcasting Satellite, and it's
on Monday nights from 6 pmPacific time and 9 Eastern time.
So yeah, you can just log inthere and on BBS Raising
Expectations that we interviewed.
We've interviewed some I don'tknow how Joe Schofield finds

(01:11:35):
these people at the BrigadierGeneral of the USS Reagan.
Reagan died and handed the flagto Mrs Reagan and he had the
same commentary about teamapproach and leading.
So it's, you know, it's justthese people are.
There's a lady, ms Sintron,who's a dyslexia expert that my

(01:11:55):
wife met, that's.
We've home schooled for likenine years.
So her biggest health coachthing during COVID was teaching
moms how to home school, becausethe schools are gone, you know,
virtual.
So yeah, so yeah.
And then I've got my ownwebsite.
It's just Craig therenet.
So, and then Facebook.
I have a nickname tank fromWaterpole, so it's Craig Tank

(01:12:19):
there.
My wife wanted to give it a tank.
For a while it was just Tankthere and then all my friends
said worst tank and Craig Tankthere.
So anyway, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:29):
I always think of Frank the Tank from that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
No, when I, when I was nicknamed that it was on a
whiteboard at the beginning ofpractice and I was playing
masters in 2001.
And I go that that means I'mslow, I'm tanking in or whatever
he goes.
No, we can't get around you.
So yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
Yeah, that's a, yeah, that's a.
Usually when you get thenickname, it's not because
you're the worst person on theteam, it's because you're good.

Speaker 2 (01:12:57):
You're good.
There's a whole community inWaterpole that have no idea what
I do or what my real name is.
Oh really, cause I you know.
You get artificially raised onthe pedestal as a doc.
You know great ER doc first dayin men's school.
Look, I'm going to talk aboutinstruments, death scope,

(01:13:18):
otoscopes.
You look at me as a student, asthis guy on a pedestal, because
I've had all this training.
So don't do that.
You need to evaluate whetheryou want Welsh Allen or whatever
brand, hp, death scope orrapoport or whatever.
You know they have differentqualities, so don't take what I

(01:13:38):
say, as you know.
Absolute victim.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Yes, you've got to make your own distinctions, but
I will say that going and likereaching out and speaking to
those people, like going to thatseminar where the guy is
talking about scopes and thengoing to another one where
another guy is talking and youcan see two different opinions,
that allows your brain tounderstand, like the knowledge,
or like having people speakabout their lives like you do,

(01:14:03):
and things like that, likeyou're able to process your own
tragedies or your own stuff, andso I think, yeah, I think
people like you and people thatare very like motivational and
intelligent thinkers areimportant in the world.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
Yeah, Well, and you, I mean kudos for doing this.
You know I mean podcasting isan art and it's a lot of work.
I've read you know 15 minutesof taping is going to be an
hour's worth of editing.
Yes, it's work behind thescenes like the audible and like
I feel sorry for that editor.

(01:14:40):
He's probably going.
I can't fix that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Yeah.
So yeah, my editor, who is myfiance, is currently on strike.
I think she's just trying totake my role as the speaker now.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
So, I'll be the one editing you gave her a taste of
being the interviewer.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
She's never going back to editing again.
Well, Dr Thayer, it was greatto have you on.
Everybody go check out his book, his radio show.
It was really great speaking toyou.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
Yeah, you too.
Yeah, Honor a man and I'm youknow, I'm proud of you.
You're in a great serviceindustry.
I mean, it's just, it's noteven an industry, but it's just
helping people and that's cooland you're in the trenches.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
So kudos to you.
Yes, thank you so much, sir.
We appreciate it.
Thank you everybody for joiningand throughout.