August 20, 2025 • 56 mins
"Is it self-care, self-sabotage, or something else entirely?" In this thought-provoking episode, counselors Marisa and Victoria tackle the complex reality behind our wellness practices. They unravel how the genuine professional concept of self-care has been transformed by pop culture into something often unrecognizable – and sometimes counterproductive.
When bubble baths and retail therapy dominate our understanding of self-care, we risk missing the true intention behind this essential practice. The American Counseling Association defines self-care as activities that sustain our emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual well-being – not just indulgent behaviors that can be easily marketed to us through social media. As our hosts reveal through personal anecdotes (including Victoria's confession about her weighted stuffed animals collection and Marissa's attachment to her high-tech alarm clock), we all fall prey to marketed "wellness solutions" from time to time.
Through insightful discussion, they distinguish between basic self-maintenance and genuine self-care, exploring how different domains – physical, emotional, social, practical, and spiritual – can feature both restorative practices and potential sabotage. When does a Netflix marathon cross from needed rest into avoidance? How can we tell if our emotional venting is processing or just dwelling? The answers lie in intentionality and understanding our true motivations.
The episode culminates in a playful "Unpack or Put It Back" game evaluating trending self-care products and practices, from crystal-infused water bottles to solo dinner dates. Their verdicts might surprise you, revealing that effective self-care isn't universal but deeply personal – what works wonderfully for one person might be completely ineffective for another.
What do you think? Send us your questions or topics you'd like us to unpack!
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Created by the OCA's Media, Public Relations, and Membership (MPRM) Committee & its Podcast Subcommittee
·Hosted by Marisa Cargill & Victoria Frazier
·Pre-Production & Coordination by Marisa Cargill and Victoria Frazier
·Editing by Leah Wood & Marisa Cargill
·Original music selections by Elijah Satoru Wood
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to let's Unpack that, a short form
segment from Ohio CounselingConversations, where we dig into
the topics, tools and truthsthat shape our work as
counselors.
Whether it's a trending issue,a clinical insight or something
we've all been thinking about,we're here to process it
together.
Welcome back to let's unpackthat.
(00:32):
This is your august edition.
I am marissa cargill and I'mvictoria frasier, and today
we're unpacking a common debatearound self-care.
Is it self-care, self-sabotageor something else entirely?
Victoria Tori, this issomething that I feel like, as
counselors, we're supposed to bemodeling and setting examples
(00:53):
for, but sometimes we struggletoo, because we're human, and so
I feel like I see a lot ofmemes teasing about this, one of
the ones sort of like if I buysomething else, my bank
account's going to need therapy.
If I buy another, this, if Ibuy another, that.
Is this something that you feellike is relatable for you as a
human and counselor?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I think it is especially when I think about my
clients and when we talk aboutself-care, I always hear them
talking about like acquiringsomething to help them with the
self-care, which is somethingI'm sure we'll talk about later,
but probably not the mostall-encompassing approach or the
most effective one for likewhat we're meant to be getting
(01:36):
out of self-care.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Right, right, I find myself, if I like something,
it's one one of those.
Maybe this is not necessarily aself-care meme, but it's like
if I like it, I get it in everycolor if I so it's like
something that's comfortable.
My, probably in the last year,most relatable purchases that
(01:58):
kind of align with this are theweighted stuffed animals.
The weighted stuffies she oneor maybe a few, because I have
one on my sofa and one on myleft seat and one in my two in
my bedroom, like it's.
It's the weighted stuffy, butit's like what point?
You know there's a line, right,and so today's episode might go
(02:21):
into some of that.
Really exciting because we aregetting into using social media
more to support the podcast andwe asked on our Insta hey,
what's your go to self care moveand is it actually working for
you?
And some of our listeners andmembers said hey, yeah, exercise
(02:43):
is something mindful walking,breath, work, meditation.
Someone said spending time withtheir, their nieces and nephews
and how easy it is to bepresent, that these were some
ideas.
Now, more than we got answerson like what is your go to move,
we got some answers about is itworking for you and,
(03:03):
interestingly, with that one,50% were kind of in the middle,
saying like sometimes, butthere's room for improvement or
I could work on this.
One person said no, because twoisn't necessarily working.
And then we had some otherfolks who said yeah, there's yes
, what I do works.
So about 12% with the no andthen 38% with the yes.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
It's such a mixed bag .
I'm not surprised about likesometimes yes, sometimes no, and
I think that's something I fallinto and something I see my
clients fall into a lot, where,like, I have my go-to strategies
and I feel like they shouldwork all the time and then when
(03:50):
they don't, I like either forgetthat I can pick something else
or like forget that there'sother options.
They're just kind of like, well, I guess I'm going to be
miserable and that's not helpfuleither.
And so I think I mean I knowwe're going to talk about a lot
of different options today andso hopefully I mean I think
that'll be helpful for me andhopefully that'll be helpful for
my clients and, like anyonewho's listening, because I think
I'm in like a self care, likerut.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, yeah, I totally get that, and I think there's
always like a lot of variablesand I try to ensure, obviously,
if there's something dangerous,we we address that as like okay,
that might not be healthy selfcare.
We want you to be doing thingsthat are oriented towards
wellness and not getting you introuble with the law or
(04:33):
something.
Right, yeah, no crimes, yeah.
So I certainly like do have to,you know, draw a line when
we're talking about self care.
However, I try not to poo-poo Iknow that's real clinical
language Any self-care that isworking for someone, but try to
say it's probably helpful tosort of diversify our portfolio
(04:57):
in this kind of space, becausejust that go-to might not be
useful in certain situations,might not be accessible in
certain situations, and so I'mtrying to make sure that we have
multiple go-tos that we can tryon for size, depending on
what's going on.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, yeah.
The other thing, I think, thatclients run into and maybe even
sometimes we forget ascounselors is like what counts
as self-care, like what isself-care, what is the purpose?
And so, in preparation fortoday, we looked up some
official definitions just tokind of bring us back to our
roots.
And so self-care is officiallydefined by the ACA as activities
(05:41):
that we engage in to sustainwell-being, encompassing
emotional, physical, mental andspiritual aspects.
This proactive approach ensuresthat we can effectively carry
out our responsibilities andserve as positive role models
for each other.
And then the other thing that Ithought was really important is
that the ACA emphasizes thatself-care is not a suggestion
(06:04):
but is actually a professionalresponsibility for counselors.
And we really want to make surethat our self-care is proactive
to prevent burnout, compassion,fatigue if we're getting really
in the weeds, any professionalimpairment that we're
experiencing, which obviously isnot only negatively impacting
us but it's going to impact ourclients as well, and obviously
(06:26):
that's the last thing we want.
And I think that having the ACAdefinition provides a different
kind of insight, becauseself-care is a very like pop
culture, like it's reallyinfiltrated like the zeitgeist,
and so that's like ourprofessional definition like the
zeitgeist, and so that's likeour professional definition.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, and I think even when we think about that,
it extends to sort of how wemodel for clients.
But that pop culture has turnedself-care into something a
little different.
It's more like bubble baths,candles, indulgent behavior.
Activities like you know, oh,shop, enjoy your treats, go to
the spa.
Your activities like you know,oh, shop, enjoy your treats, go
(07:08):
to the spa.
And so this misconception islike that.
This is just such a reductivedefinition.
It's simplifying self-care tojust activities that can be
easily marketed and consumed,when that might, for some people
, be part of the equation.
But it also gives thismisconception that self-care is
inherently selfish or frivolousand maybe doesn't kind of
(07:32):
address like some of the moreauthentic forms of self-care.
And I know we're going to kindof keep digging into it.
But I think it's important forus to consider like that we see
this we see that marketing it'sreally unavoidable because it
might be a commercial althoughmost of us might pay for no
(07:53):
commercials, depending you knowwhere we are but in
advertisements on social media,on television, movies,
billboards, etc.
That we see some of this popculture definition more
frequently and it and themarketing for them works.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So you see people doing stuff on social media and
talking about how great it is,but it's also a marketed,
crafted, curated image ofself-care which maybe isn't fair
yeah, and I think the otherthing that we forget a lot of
times is just because someonehasn't like it's not shown to us
(08:36):
as an ad doesn't mean that itisn't marketing.
And so, like I'm usually, I tryto be like very like locked in
when I'm on social media, likemindful of that.
But like the hatch alarm clockthis like fancy, stupid alarm
clock I have one, it's beautifuland it like has me.
It has me whipped into shape,like I go to bed so much earlier
(08:57):
than I ever did and I'm such anight owl.
But like I also have the likeunderstanding of like okay,
these are things I could haveimplemented for myself.
And like this, like I also havethe like understanding of like
okay, these are things I couldhave implemented for myself.
And like this clock is notnecessary, but I do kind of love
it and it is kind of my bestfriend yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I think it's interesting that we I appreciate
you sharing that examplebecause, like, we fall victim to
the same marketing, even ascounselors, where where we try
to set a model, but we do stillthink sometimes I need help with
this and maybe this, this item,this product, will help fix it
(09:35):
for me, and in some cases it can, and in some ways it may be
like well, that was another,maybe I fell prey to that really
good marketing scheme.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, I think the other thing that can be a little
dangerous about it not to gettoo in the weeds about mental
like marketing for mental healthand self-care is that, yes, the
clock is very helpful and itgives you a signal that it's
time to go to bed, but also,like you have to be the person
to listen to it.
Right, like it is still goingto take some adjustment to your
(10:08):
routine or how you're thinkingabout things.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yes, One of the things that and we'll probably
get into it a little bit laterin the episode, maybe in greater
depth but I think when we'retalking about like trends on
social media, that we must becareful about and important.
I, in terms of just like socialmedia literacy, which you know
is a big thing for me, in termsof like trying to educate and
(10:33):
advocate for people to betterunderstand is that there's a lot
of lived experiences, which isa version of expertise sharing,
and sometimes it's not alwaysbacked by like the
evidence-based stuff that wealso appreciate in our
(10:53):
profession and I think they'reboth very important.
But sometimes we're gettingmarketed a product by someone
who maybe doesn't have abackground in understanding like
why it's working or how itworks, or who may not even care
that it works to be transparentwith you, because they're also
(11:14):
earning income from that, and soit is something that I I guess
it gets layered, but I think,with the trends on social media
that like oh and I'm notminimizing the importance of
this, so I want to be very clearand intentional when I say this
is like fix your gut health andyou're not going to be
depressed, kind of thing.
(11:34):
Like it's reductive in someother ways where, yeah, your gut
health matters and addressingsome of those things could be
really helpful in terms ofmental health symptoms as well,
and addressing some of thosethings could be really helpful
in terms of mental healthsymptoms as well.
I'm not here to say that thatcan't be the case, but I think
sometimes it's being sold aslike definitive solutions where
that may not always be accurateeither.
(11:57):
So it's like these self carethings of like take this
supplement and your life will bebetter, kind of thing may not
always be just a fair portrayal.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that makes it
tough and like I don't know thatthe onus of responsibility is
on, like the marketing people orthe influencers who are
promoting it, but like theydon't have the expertise to
influence how they'reapproaching the topics, like
you've already said,intentionality a couple of times
, which I talk about a lot whenwe're talking about self-care,
(12:31):
like there's a differencebetween like taking a bubble
bath and taking a bubble bath inthe interest of wellness.
But also I think about I try toI talk a lot with my clients,
even like the five-year-olds,about considering your whole
person and thinking moreholistically and so if you're
(12:51):
really sleepy but your mainself-care is more physical, like
going for a run, that might notbe the most appropriate
intervention for that second.
And so the intentionality andalso like considering lots of
different factors is soimportant yeah, yeah, and I
think it's a it's where is thatline like?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
the intentionality sometimes helps us determine
where the line between self-careand self-sabotage, where we're
kind of like entering intodangerous territory, where that
line gets drawn.
There are different types ofself-care.
And I think where we're kind oflike entering into dangerous
territory, where that line getsdrawn, there are different types
of self-care.
I think it's important for usto run through some of like the
main types this may not be anexhaustive list, but just trying
(13:34):
to kind of put them intocategories and umbrellas is
there's like the physical, theemotional, social, practical
which we'll define a little bitmore here in a minute and
spiritual.
But we're kind of looking atthose to say, okay, here's where
it might be self care.
And as we kind of go throughthat spectrum on that type of
(13:55):
self care where it might get alittle bit more to like the self
sabotage.
And so with physical, it's likegetting sleep, getting like
adequate nutrition and movement,netflix marathons, like
disguised as recovery and rest,like yeah, we need rest.
But if we're saying that that'swhat it is and we're binging
(14:16):
and we're kind of avoiding theother things that might help us
maintain and care for ourselves.
Is that becoming self-sabotage?
Maintain and care for ourselves?
Is that becoming self-sabotageWith emotional stuff?
Journaling, going to therapycan really be useful in
self-care if we are ventingendlessly in our group chats, is
that effective?
Not saying it can't be, but it'slike gauging the intentionality
(14:39):
behind it and when it's maybebecoming sometimes less helpful
or more harmful, even social,making healthy connections
versus maybe like trauma dumpingor trauma bonding and I don't
love those terms because I thinkthey're misconceived.
We might have a differentepisode about unpacking
(15:01):
misconceptions from social media, pop psychology but practical
stuff, budgeting, declutteringversus retail therapy that, like
meditation and nature walks,might be part of like a
spiritual self-care.
But spiritual bypassing, toxicpositivity, good vibes only
(15:25):
might be a little bit more ofthe self-sabotage when it comes
to some of those things too.
So I can kind of look back inmy life and reflect and say, yep
, I've done the self-sabotageversion of some of these pretty,
pretty easily, and so it's.
It's not that we don't know,it's about getting behind the
intentionality behind it, as youwere bringing up before, and
(15:49):
thinking about hey, is thishelpful, is this harmful?
Where's the line?
Because it could be both, butmaybe it just depends on the
duration or frequency.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, I think one of the things that can be kind of
hard about it is that when weare getting into, maybe, an
overindulgence area where, like,we have watched 10 hours of
Netflix or we've sent 30 groupchat messages in a row, that
stuff still feels nice, it stillfeels productive, or it's like
yes, obviously I ate the wholechocolate cake.
(16:26):
It tasted amazing.
Like.
So we like, when we're thinkingabout intentionality, I think
that's a little easier to likethink through in the moment,
because intentional, whileimportant, is a little vague and
(16:50):
so, like, some of the questionswe can ask ourselves or clients
is like, am I using this asavoidance?
Because, even if you are gettinga lot out of your meditation,
if you're meditating instead oflike washing your hair or doing
your progress notes or otherthings that are going to kind of
like further your being, thatcan be hard and I know that,
(17:13):
like my house is never cleanerthan when I'm behind on notes,
or like when I was in school,exam week, finals week, I would
have the cleanest, mostsparkling architectural digest.
There's a new photo gallery onthe wall.
Like situation in my house,because I was like I don't want
to read that stuff that I wrotea month ago.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
I'm laughing because I relate.
But it would be on the side ofthe counselor, educator, that if
I had a lot of grading to do,you would never see like my
house cleaner, more organized,like to the point where I had to
figure out ways to like combatthat right.
Like what can I do to sort ofhelp me be motivated?
Because, well, it's great tohave a clean home and feel
organized there.
(17:55):
It was avoidant of the otherthings that were necessary for
me to be able to function.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, I mean yeah it's tough because like that
does feel good or it helps us inother areas of our life, but
like it's unbalancing our littlepie chart, right Cause.
Then it's like your house beingclean is taking up too much and
not I don't know studentswaiting for their grades back
not speaking from experience,not that that was ever a problem
(18:26):
.
I'm not dragging you.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
And I think, hey, no, avoidant like tendencies with
like some of this stuff as wellas like sometimes I'll like
label it as like a distractioncoping mechanism, aren't
inherently bad.
It's like, to the degree thatwe do it and that we want to,
like I was saying earlier,diversify the portfolio, Like we
(18:49):
can't, you know, wanting todistract or disconnect from
something or avoid it, like, inessence, can be useful.
It's helpful for us tosometimes set things down, and
yet the word avoidance, I think,shows a different
intentionality than likedisconnecting or distracting.
It's like a conscious choice of, and so I don't know, I mean, I
(19:13):
would still probably lump themtogether in a lot of ways, but
there's some research to support.
We'll link it like a researchstudy showing that, like
avoidance, coping specificallydoes increase anxiety over time,
and so at the end of the day,there's, you know, the return on
that investment.
Not great.
(19:35):
We don't want that to become,like then, an additional problem
.
So we understand howconfronting it can be useful,
even if maybe we need todisconnect temporarily.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, I think one of the other things like just if
we're talking about balance,right Is like sometimes the
answer is to go get yourself anice little treat or like.
Like, if I have like a daywhere I know I have a bunch of
emails I'm bad at emails, I'llown up to it, I am not I'm
getting better at them, but likeI know that a way bunch of
emails I'm bad at emails, I'llown up to it, I am not I'm
(20:06):
getting better at them, but likeI know that a way that will get
me to sit down and do my emailsis to go get like a nice little
drink from like a coffee shopnearby, or like.
Sometimes my brain is like Ican't do that.
And then I'm like, what if weate Nerds Gummy Clusters while
we did it?
My brain's like, oh yeah,that's fine then.
Actually I love nerds, gummyclusters Not sponsored.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I tricked my brain to do laundry last night.
I said once you do your laundryand fold it, put it away.
Sorry, my cat's making noiseshere.
Once you do that, you can goget a popsicle.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Oh my God, I love that.
The other side of that, though,is like how often are we
getting little treats?
Because that can be a strainnot only on, like I don't know
if I eat too much sugar my bodydoesn't love that but also like
I think you made a joke about itearlier like our wallets
probably don't like that as well.
Yeah, and we don't want tocreate, like you said, like more
(21:02):
anxiety by trying to makeourselves feel better.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Mm, hmm, create like you said, like more anxiety by
trying to make ourselves feelbetter.
Yeah, I think there's a lotthat goes into it.
I also think, like, sometimes,like if we feel like we're
setting boundaries aroundcertain things to help care for
ourselves, they can cause strainin our relationships.
And I'm not saying ignore,forget all boundaries and
(21:26):
sometimes we have rigidboundaries for very specific and
intentional reasons.
But sometimes it's like we missout on things that could be
positive self-care, a greatexample.
I'm very, I would say, rigid.
I don't know if that's how otherpeople would characterize it or
not, but I'm weird about mySundays.
(21:47):
Right, I like to be home by acertain time on a Sunday so that
, even if I'm all caught up onlaundry and all everything is
like in its place, I still feellike I have time to like rest,
relax mentally, feel moreprepared for like the week
beginning again on Monday.
Last Sunday I went to a cookoutat my friend's house.
(22:13):
Like it was pleasant.
I was out much later on aSunday than I normally would be
and if you, if I had known I wasgoing to be out that late,
honestly I probably would havebeen like oh, maybe I should
just not go, right, yeah, butthen you miss out on, like maybe
some of the social interactions, like the kind of temporary
(22:36):
vacation of having just socialengagement and connection that
isn't related to the to-do listor the work week or what have
you, and so it's like that cancause issues, too right, where
we're like self-sabotaging in away, that like we're denying
ourselves things that bring usjoy too.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, and I think not to like broken record balance,
but also if we know that we havea habit.
I have a problem of saying yesto too many things just because
I like to be around my friendsor I like to do things for work,
and so I try to sit down overthe weekend, usually on Sunday,
(23:20):
and look at my schedule and makesure that I can actually do
everything I need to do and, ifnot, like where that needs to
change.
And I think even that like kindof organizational time is very
self-care focused for me,because I don't know what day it
is today, and so when it's likeThursday and I said I would go
(23:40):
to this lunch and I would havethis thing done for a friend,
and you know I, I can get alittle like swept up in it, and
so I try to build in that time.
And I have have this thing donefor a friend, and you know I, I
can get a little like swept upin it, and so I try to build in
that time and I have to put iton a calendar or it doesn't
happen.
Like my color coded beautifulcalendar is that I changed for
the seasons, so like right nowit's like pinks and blues, and
then in a couple of weeks I'mtrying to hold off.
(24:02):
I'm an early fall apologist,but in a couple of weeks I'll
change it to like oranges andbrowns and like apple red
anyways.
But I think like calendar timeis very self-care for me and I
do some of the pop cultureself-care stuff too, like I do
light a candle and I do like puton mood lighting or like sit in
(24:23):
like my fluffy pajamas to do it.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
But also there's like a much more practical version
of that too yeah and yeah, and Ithink that's like grounding
right, like some of the sensorystuff can be really grounding,
so it's not all inherently bad.
It's about like, okay, are weusing that to also maybe avoid
other work, or or something.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah.
And then I think the otherthing that is a little hard for
me because I'm someone who kindof goes all in a little too
quickly on things and changes.
I have to try to scale it backis like how sustainable is this
thing?
I'm trying to do Like?
I don't know?
If you saw it, there was thislike person's morning routine
(25:07):
going around.
It kind of became an internetjoke where he got up three in
the morning and dunked his facein spring mountain water out of
a beautiful glass bottle and wasdoing pushups on his balcony.
Great, I don't know him.
I'm not trying to slander himand his morning routine, but I
(25:27):
can't imagine that he does thatevery single day or that he can
continue to do that every singleday.
And how sustainable that or howsustainable is that for someone
watching that?
And they're like, oh, I wish Icould do that.
Maybe not the mountain waterbottle, unless they're into that
but like getting up so earlyand doing all these things
before work, like we don't knowwhat his job is like, that might
(25:52):
not be sustainable for someonewho has like a nine to five or
who works nights or somethinglike that.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, yeah, it's about finding what works for you
, which sometimes does have thatlike individual, you know
component of like what, what'sgoing on in my world, like that
context is important, certainly,like there's a lot.
I think that we can flex insome ways when we're thinking
about things that aren't costinga lot of money.
(26:15):
But then it's some of thoserestraints and, you know, I
think to that point we get a lotof marketing that's like
watered down versions of stuffthat, like people who maybe have
a ton of money can do and issustainable, but like maybe not.
So for just like someone likeus, like I don't want to say
(26:37):
someone more human we're allhuman but like I, you know, just
someone who's not in the 1%, Iguess, like where it's, it's
okay.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah, this is probably not something that's
realistic yeah in the long termI think the other thing we can
get into is like seeing examplesin like media, like fictional
examples, and that being notachievable just because it's not
based in reality.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
You know I'm a Bravo-holic proudly, I love
Bravo TV and the Real HousewivesCertainly, like probably are
marketed as like aspirationalthings and they're carrying
Birkin bags and they're going toget all these spa treatments
and things like that.
It's like oh yeah, like love,that like good for you, but also
(27:31):
that might not be how you know,I can't go drop a bunch of
money, you know, at the LouisVuitton store today.
Like that's not realistic andprobably, you know, in a
temporary moment I might feelgood about but like might have
regret and and discomfort withafter and so you know, great if
(27:53):
you can treat yourself, but ifyou can't like, then where does
it become?
Like problematic, and sometimesthe pop culture and social
media really love to promotethese other things.
Right, there's memes you knowabout, like how people engage in
self care, one of my favoritesand I I don't like I probably
(28:19):
wasn't a religious watcher ofParks and Rec, but I feel like
the treat yourself bit with Tomand Donna, right, yes, yeah, I
was a religious parks and recwatcher.
But that is like very common.
We'll probably put it in oursocial media posts related to
this episode so you can check itout on Ohio Counseling on
(28:40):
Instagram, Check us out at theOhio Counseling Association on
Facebook.
But it's about like hey, oneday a year we kind of like say
there are no rules, it's youwant that, Treat yourself.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, do you want fine leather goods?
Treat yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, yeah, but that's fun and we laugh and we
chuckle.
But risky, right.
If you had a day where you justwere like hey, like yeah, it
can be really fun, but even withthat being intentional and
setting boundaries around it,because that could become like
very dangerous very quickly forfor anyone in the real world,
right.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Oh yeah, I think the thing I love the most about that
episode is like Tom and Donnaare like getting ready to leave
and they see there, for thosewho haven't partaken in Parks
and Rec, they see like he's Iwant to say he's like newer to
the office at that point.
But they see Ben thecharacter's name is Ben sitting
on a bench eating soup alone andthey're like no, he needs to
(29:37):
treat himself.
And they take him to the malland he's like no, I treated
myself, I got socks.
And like Tom at one point callshimself a cashmere velvet candy
cane.
Because like he's kind of goinga little too far.
That's great, it's incredible,it's so powerful.
The whole episode I reallyhighly recommend.
But it's like they're kind ofoverindulging, right, and Ben is
(30:00):
very much underindulging andlike Donna asked him, she's like
like if you could blow bigmoney on one thing not stock
money, what would it be?
And he is like a kind of a moreemotionally stunted character,
I would say.
And he buys himself a batmancostume, like not a party city,
(30:20):
like a high-end batman costume,and it's like kind of an
emotional catharsis for him tolike care about his needs and he
starts crying and like theyplay it for a joke, like Tom's,
like uh-oh, batman's.
Crying like this isn't safe.
But it is like a really sweetmoment if you look at it in
abstract or with, like yourcounselor hat on, like he's
(30:41):
honoring what makes him happy inthat moment.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, and I know we touched on like the social media
elements of like self-carebeing disguised as marketing.
But I think it is important tokind of just reiterate that that
like, even if it's hashtag, notan ad, it probably is a curated
message, and like I feel likeit's just so much more common
now we have to maybe reallyreflect on some questions to say
(31:15):
like, how do I check myself, tosort of check in that this is
intentional check in, that thisisn't doing something that's
going to harm me.
And I think that this alsocomes back to sometimes like the
definitions.
I know we touched on thoseearlier and one part of
self-care is also like just thebasics, which I think sometimes
get defined more as like aself-maintenance.
(31:37):
Self-maintenance is generallynot enough to kind of give us
the joy that we need to refuelthe way self-care activities
might so like yeah, gettingsleep is great, getting proper
nutrition, getting outdoors,getting, you know, engaged
socially.
Sometimes those are just aboutmaintaining the self-care
(32:00):
sometimes takes it into a waythat we also get joy that feels
restorative, not just likekeeping us maintained, so to
speak.
And I think it's important whenwe think about some of the
literature behind this is thatthere are studies that show self
care, like legitimate self care, can boost your focus.
It reduces burnout.
It's also something where wecan look at like some of these
(32:24):
other things to contribute, andwe know, like staying socially
connected, it's a number onepredictor from an 80 year
longitudinal study from Harvard,number one predictor of
happiness.
And so we have to think aboutsome of these things and say,
okay, what am I doing tomaintain myself, what am I doing
to create joy?
And then also like, how do Ireflect on things to make sure
(32:47):
that these are kind of fallinginto those maintenance or joy
categories and not the sabotageavoidant space?
So I think you have some ideasabout some good questions, maybe
to go with that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I think I do this a lot with my I don't know what it
.
I work a lot with kids andteens, but I have a group of
adult clients as well, and a lotof my adult clients.
It's like a big theme that theyare not super great at
self-care or they just feel likeit's a waste of time or they
don't know how to do it.
So they're kind of likeself-care babies and we're
learning together, and so one ofthe questions I always ask them
(33:24):
is like, how is this going tomake you feel in five minutes?
What about five days in fiveweeks?
And sometimes we even talk aboutlike in five years, like if
they're doing something bigger,like they're going on a vacation
, like their first vacation in20 years or something, and we
talk about like the lastingimpact and how future you is
going to feel about it, andmaybe future you is going to be
(33:45):
really proud that you bought abeautiful Batman costume, but
maybe future you is also goingto regret your velvet cashmere
candy cane and then some of theother things we talked about it,
which I think we've touched ona lot of these throughout the
episode.
But like are we avoidingsomething that we need to do
instead?
Like should we be doing a facemask if our house doesn't have
(34:06):
any windows?
Or like should we, you know,like we have to.
Like I pull out the pyramid ofneeds like Maslow's hierarchy of
needs all the time for clients.
And I'm like have you eatentoday?
Let's start there.
Do you have a place to existand then we can talk about?
I haven't seen the housewiveslately and that's really doing a
(34:27):
number on me.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
And I think that that's like you know you're
going to like I get excitedabout housewives.
But that's such a good pointwith the Maslow's hierarchy,
because when we're talking aboutmaintenance versus like the
care and joy, restorative things, if the maintenance stuff isn't
being done, it is hard toaccess the other stuff yeah, and
(34:50):
in like, mental, emotional,sometimes physical ways.
So it is important that we'retalking about all of it.
And I will say often when Ihave clients who are really
struggling, I don't know that weget to the self care things.
Yeah, I might use the word selfcare, but it probably is more
of that maintenance of likelet's go back to the basics how
(35:10):
are you sleeping?
Are you hydrated?
Have you had meals?
Like, are you?
You know, like what are wedoing here?
Because it's kind of morechallenging to experience the
other things like or we mightnot get to experience the full
range of that if we're lackingin some of these basic
maintenance skills too.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, and I think that's hard for clients, but
also counselors, to understand.
Sometimes, just because you'reat the most beautiful spa in the
world does not mean you'regoing to be relaxed at the end.
If you're there and they onlyoffer you a cucumber sandwich
but you're starving, like that'snot going to be relaxing, right
, yeah, and so we have to alsolike think about okay, I'm going
(35:55):
to do this thing, excellent,that's like hurdle one, but then
can you jump that hurdle Right?
Do we have the preparationwhere doing the self-care
activity, whatever it may be, isgoing to actually like do
something for you?
Speaker 1 (36:12):
I also, especially in terms of maintenance, but I
think it extends to self-care.
I think about and I encourageclients to consider and I try to
, you know, reflect on this as aan individual too, too is, do I
feel like I have to earn it,like I wouldn't tell you know I
I don't have children, but Iwouldn't tell a child that they
(36:35):
had to earn their nap yeah,right that those are things that
, like we, inherently need tofunction oh, that's such a good
point and and so especially withthe maintenance.
But I think it probably extendsto some of this self care.
Like we, you, you want kids tobe able to play, they learn
through play.
Like you, you wouldn't say like, you have to earn the
(36:58):
opportunity to play like and Iknow we do do that.
So that could go into a wholedifferent kind of dissertation
here about, like you know,earning recess or things like
that.
But I think some of that hasshifted and evolved with time
and as it should.
But yeah, I think that theseare things that are really
helpful to think about.
I appreciate you bringing upthe hierarchy of needs, because
(37:20):
I think that applies here inthis context for sure.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah, I think it applies in most contexts.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Well, right, that's.
I think it applies in mostcontexts.
Well, right, that's the pointof it, right.
But I think in just evaluating,hey, you do need those things,
these are important things whenit becomes sabotage is maybe
when we're also like not meetingthe other needs.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yeah, yeah, the balance is off.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, yeah, okay.
Are there other reflectivequestions you have that you feel
like we should be askingourselves so that we know when
we're blurring the line?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
We've talked about determining if it's a
distraction or restorative.
I do think one of the things Ido with clients, and there's
lots of different versions ofthis, so I'd encourage you to
poke around and find questionsthat you think are impactful or
important.
But sometimes buying somethingis self-care or it is going to
(38:21):
better our lives in some way,and so I'll do kind of like an
impulse spending checklist,especially if it is a bigger
purchase with a client and beinglike could I borrow this?
Do I have a space in my housefor this?
Am I going to imagine myselfusing this in three years?
When will this thing need to bereplaced?
Is it sustainable?
Past that, like, I had a clientwho we were talking about.
(38:42):
They wanted to make a changefrom buying coffee out and they
wanted to have coffee at homeand they wanted to get like an
espresso machine, which I havean espresso machine.
But then we were kind oftalking about like, besides the
initial investment, you have tokeep buying the pots, and so
eventually she kind of decidedto do like a normal espresso
machine that you can grind thebeans for yourself or just buy
(39:05):
pre-ground and so that, and weactually just talked about that
somewhat recently.
But she was like that was likeit was a little more effort at
first to figure out how itworked, but it's so much better
now and she doesn't have to likefuss with the little pods and
everything too.
So, like talk, like doing someof those questions about like
how would this thing fit in mylife?
And I think those things canwork for non-purchases as well.
(39:28):
Like okay, you want to startdoing yoga at home, right?
Like do we have all theequipment for that?
Do we have the resourcesgathered?
Like what can we do to prepare?
So I think even not to add moresteps to engaging in self-care
which can be challenging anyways, but doing a little bit of prep
work to make sure, like ifcooking is self care, for you
(39:50):
chop all your vegetables first,right, and that can apply in
lots of different contexts.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah, yeah, I think one that just speaks to the, the
statements we've already beenmaking is just what's my
intention behind this action,like, and sort of then maybe
reflecting with some of thoseother questions is it avoidant?
Is it restorative, like, butwhat is my intention in choosing
this, whether it's purchasingan item or engaging in an
(40:18):
activity, and sort of sittingwith that for a minute before we
make the decision of, okay,like, and can I make the case
for like, this then being achoice that that aligns with my
goals and my wellness?
yeah, and even that causesself-care yeah, right, right,
(40:41):
very good, appreciate thatobservation.
So gonna switch gears and kindof wrap up with a game that we
may play on some of these futureepisodes of let's unpack that.
But unpack or put it back.
A really rapid fire questionwhere we decide if we would
unpack this, meaning we keep it,we like it, or we put it back
(41:02):
to say no, that can go, we canleave that one behind.
So today we're going to gothrough some self-care trends
and go through if we wouldunpack or put it back.
So, tori, first on the list,crystal-infused water bottles
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Okay, I think normal water bottle unpack
Crystal-infused.
I'm kind of like what's thatcrystal's deal?
So I think I would put acrystal water bottle back.
But that might be my likeanxiety happening about what the
crystals up to.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Okay, yeah, I can appreciate that.
I I feel like I'm such adiplomat about things I'm like,
well, I don't know, is there amiddle ground somewhere here?
Because I say unpack for thosewho want it, right.
Yeah, I'm not mad at it, right,but I may be a less
enthusiastic.
A less enthusiastic.
Unpack.
(41:54):
I like a crystal, don't get mewrong.
I just maybe, maybe I'm not aswell versed in the water bottle,
so yeah, I just I can't imaginehow they work.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Maybe that's a me like how are the crystals
getting in there?
Are they just floating aroundLike what's up?
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Well, I mean we could Google image search and show
you some are, I think, like morelike secure implanted, from
what I understand you know, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Anyways, that's a me problem.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, okay, anyways, that's a new problem.
No, no, I yeah, I'm very in themiddle on that.
So I'm, yeah moderate when itcomes to crystal infused water
bottles.
But how about hot girl walks?
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
I vote unpack.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
I love it.
I have a hot girl walk playliston my phone I also.
There are many that exist outthere in the ether on like Apple
Music and Spotify and I'm suremany other places, and if you're
not familiar with what thismeans, it's basically just like
an empowered hey, go for a walkand like listen to the music.
(43:03):
That kind of pumps you up, andthat's my interpretation of it.
But yes, I love a hot girl walk.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
This might be like a slight aside, and not in the
name of rapid things, but whatis on your playlist, like who is
on there?
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Okay, let me get my phone Okay.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
I'll talk while you get your thing.
My playlist has a lot of dochi.
I'm very into a dochi momentright now.
My playlist does not have aconsistent vibe.
There's a lot of Taylor.
Swift there has a lot of Dochi.
I'm very into a Dochi momentright now.
My playlist does not have aconsistent vibe.
There's a lot of Taylor Swift.
There's a lot of Mariah Carey.
I think there's some OneDirection hits.
I think there's like thesoundtrack from the Broadway
musical version of Anastasia.
Like what isn't on the Hot GirlWalk playlist.
(43:42):
Hot girls are about eclecticism.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Okay, so I'm just going to do some rapid fire
artists from the playlist,because there are some that are
on there more than once.
The greatest showman soundtrackbeyonce lizzo, belbiv, devoe um
mia zed, marin morris, greatmegan, the stallion, lipa, doja
Cat and Tyga.
(44:05):
New Kids on the Block Drake,the Supremes, iconic Taylor
Swift, mariah Carey, lado Lizzo,again Jess Glynn and more
Beyonce.
So just a quick rapid fire ofthat playlist, but that's not
the only one.
There's some other ones thatgive similar vibes that don't
(44:27):
have the same title in terms ofhot girl walk, but that is my,
that is straight from my hotgirl walk playlist I love so,
yes, and as you can tell, I hope, by the sound of my voice, that
it does bring me great joy anda little bit eclectic, but with
a theme.
I think with the theme it's allhigh vibe music yes, yes, yeah,
we're not listening to.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
I love her but, like Phoebe Bridgers is not coming on
, the hot girl walk Unlessthat's your definition of hot
girl.
Maybe you're having a sad girlwalk and that's powerful too.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Can be, yes, yes, but unpack for a hot girl walk.
What about digital detoxweekends?
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
I think unpack in theory.
I'm bad at it, but I'm gettingbetter at like putting my phone
on a do not disturb for a littlebit of time.
I think unpack now and unpackmore in the future.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
I'm like is it okay if I say put it back?
I with intention, I feel likeI've gotten better over the
years and I certainly will saythere's always room for
improvement.
But I actually feel like I amdigitally detoxed so much during
the week that it is self carefor me to be a little bit more
indulgent with some of thethings that I feel like maybe I
(45:40):
miss out on during the busy workdays and such because I am on
do not disturb, you knowsignificantly when I'm working.
And so I will say maybecontroversial, especially given
like that I studied digitaladdictions Put it back.
I love that.
(46:01):
Stand in your truth.
For me, for you, for otherpeople, I think it is an unpack
for sure.
What about retail therapysplurges?
Unpack, put it back.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
I am a put it back and not just in a teacher's pet
way.
I think my version of that islike I love looking at
ridiculous things like right nowmy obsession is a traveler's
notebook which is like a leathernotebook that you can change
out the inserts in, and myversion.
I don't actually buy it, but Ilove going on and designing it
(46:34):
with all the little charms thatyou can add to it and things.
So but I, I, I'm very like Ihave to think about things for a
really long time before I buythem and so for that reason I'm
a put it back before I buy them.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
And so for that reason I'm a put it back.
I will say put it back.
Yes.
While I like some retailtherapy, I think the splurge
part of it is what makes me sayput it back, because that's at
least the way it is.
Simply put, I feel like splurgemakes it unhealthy.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Yeah, no I agree.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
How about no bad vibes wall art?
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Probably put it back.
I think that gets into a littlebit of toxic positivity, not
honoring how we're feeling.
Like I said, sometimes you haveto go on a sad girl walk, so I
think I'd put back the no badvibes part of the wall art.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
Wholeheartedly agree.
Too much toxic positivity there.
Love some wall art, just maybea different choice.
Yeah, put it back.
How about adult coloring books?
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Unpack over and over again.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Any coloring book.
It can be a child's coloringbook.
Yeah, I love yes.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, it can be adigital one.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Love it.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
How about essential oil diffusers?
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Unpack in spaces without pets, because sometimes
essential oil is bad for pets.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
And so that's yeah, that was going gonna say put it
back for the very same reason,also because sometimes I think
that that's maybe to the pointswe were making earlier they're
not obviously inherently bad butlike the social media marketing
spaces can be kind of icky withwith promoting some of that
stuff too, as like the solutionto your problem, which I don't,
(48:27):
you know, I concur, I I don'tdisagree that we can't have like
these types of solutions, butjust like it's not a maybe pixel
, agree wholeheartedly middaybubble baths, unpack or put it
back.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Unpack if you have the time to spare and you're
into that.
If you have the time to spareand you're into that, which I
sometimes do, yeah, love, I feelit feels a little indulgent,
yeah, but I am kind of into that.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
I say unpack, unpack, unpack, unpack, unpack.
I love a bubble bath.
My mother will tell this storyand I might be oversharing here,
but I think it will be at leastanecdotally fun, maybe for you
I hope for you as a listener athome.
But when I was a kid, wheneverI was like having a tough time,
(49:17):
she was like throw the kid in abubble bath, like she will get
better.
It was just she knew this isgrounding for my child and I
don't know why.
And she made up this song whichI am about to sing.
It is like the simplest thingbut it brings me joy even to
this day, and so I also justassociate bubble baths with like
helping me feel better.
(49:37):
And they still do work.
But she would say bubbles,bubbles, take away my troubles.
Bubbles, bubbles, they make mesmile again.
I am obsessed with that and Ijust have to tell you that
that's the home I grew up in.
We made up a lot of songs and Istill make up a lot of songs
and I sing them to my cats now.
(49:58):
So just so you all know, thatis me unpack bubble bath midday,
evening, morning, whenever youcan get it in.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Yeah, that's about my spotify wrapped this year the
bubble song.
It's shooting straight to thetop.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
It's gonna.
Yeah, that's gonna be a hit.
I think just wait till all ohio, because I might sing some
songs during our presentationtoo.
So we have to sing soft.
Plug weighted blankets, unpackor put it back, okay.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Before I had one I was kind of like a very light
put it back.
But then I got one unpack allday long Love.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
So my answer is probably going to shock you
because I'm going to say put itback.
As I just earlier talked aboutmy weighted stuffies, I feel
like those are a little bit moreaccessible for me.
I've had some chronic painissues and I think the weighted
blanket I had maybe it was justtoo heavy or yeah, like
prevented my my mobility in waysthat was not great, so good for
(50:59):
people.
I like the sensory idea of itfor me personally.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Put it back and, you know, substitute with a stuffy
yeah, I can't use mine when it'shot like it has.
It's like a winter fall kind ofunpack for me.
I do put it back spring andsummer.
It goes in a little tote away,yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
I like the sensory parts of it.
I for me personally, it was.
It was causing issues with someof my pain, and so I just
self-accommodated with othertools.
Yes, with the stuffies instead,solo dinner dates.
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Okay, similar to the last one, I would put it back
before I did it.
But now unpack all day long,anytime I'm going alone, I don't
have to talk to anyone.
I'm taking my Kindle, I'mtaking time to look at the
beautiful restaurant, even if itis an Olive Garden.
They have a charm about them.
Unpack, it's so nice.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
I agree wholeheartedly Unpack, and for
me and for others on this onebecause it is something where we
have an opportunity to likelean into discomfort especially
if it's not something thatyou've done and really engage in
like sensory ways andexperience, like the environment
(52:20):
in in ways that are differentsometimes than when it we may
miss something.
If we're socially goingsomewhere where we don't get to
like take it in as much, I thinkit gives us opportunities to
sort of be more present.
Even if it's a littleuncomfortable, I think it can be
beneficial.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
Yeah, I'm so glad you said that because I think one
of the things that is hard formy clients to get sometimes and
not to get too into it, but,like, sometimes self-care
doesn't feel nice Sometimes it'simportant to do something
that's uncomfortable, that'sgoing to further us in the
future.
Speaker 1 (52:54):
Well, right, and trying something new that's not
like something that you'veusually gone to and used as a
coping mechanism is going to beuncomfortable at first.
Right, it's going to maybe notfeel like self-care in the
immediate moment, but we can seehow did we feel after that.
Right, how did I feel aftertrying this new thing?
(53:17):
Maybe I was, maybe I metsomeone, or maybe it was just
nice to be in this experiencewhere I was able to, like,
engage in the sensory parts ofthe experience that I am
sometimes a little bit moreunaware or passive with because
I was doing it solo.
Yeah, and prove to yourselflike that you can do things
(53:38):
independently, which I think isis helpful for a lot of folks.
I'm sure that there's somepeople who may say, nope, put it
back, I'm not interested, andthat's okay.
Okay too, but I say, unpack forcertain anything that you put
back that we feel like we couldreimagine to where it would then
become something we couldunpack, I think I'm thinking
(54:00):
first of the oil diffuser.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
I think if, like, sensory grounding by way of
scent is something that'spowerful for you, I think that's
super valid and I even I dothat a lot with clients.
When we're getting a littledysregulated and I did that a
lot with myself If I'm gettingin like a bit of a panicky mood
I think scents are verygrounding.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
Yeah, I will obvious.
I think I already said thissort of during, but like the
digital detox weekend, even forme, I will say I think I already
said this sort of during, butlike the digital detox weekend,
even for me, I will say thereare certain times when I feel
like I am able to detox.
I try when I go on trips andtravel, like I might use the
camera, but I really do try tovacate the rest and I
communicate less with, like,people who are not with me so
(54:44):
that I can stay present, and soI think it being intentional
with it, then is is reallyreally meaningful to me.
Oh yeah, so I'll say that'shealthy self care, even though
on a typical weekend I probablydon't want to.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
Yeah, it's about a balance, as always.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
Well, this kind of wraps up this edition of let's
Unpack that.
A little bit longer, but reallyfun to sort of unpack this and
I hope that this helps youreflect as a listener of hey,
where am I maybe operating in away that could be too close to
that boundary, or are thereother ways that I need to engage
(55:24):
in, maybe different types ofrestorative activities?
We know like self-care is justa tool that we have in our
toolbox and we just want to be alittle bit more intentional
about it.
So thank you for joining us forthis edition.
Thank you, tori Victoria.
I'm glad you're here to help meunpack this.
My gosh, I loved it Time of mylife.
(55:47):
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(56:08):
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keep unpacking the big stuff,one conversation at a time.
Welcome to let's Unpack that, a short form
segment from Ohio CounselingConversations, where we dig into
the topics, tools and truthsthat shape our work as
counselors.
Whether it's a trending issue,a clinical insight or something
we've all been thinking about,we're here to process it
together.
Welcome back to let's unpackthat.
(00:32):
This is your august edition.
I am marissa cargill and I'mvictoria frasier, and today
we're unpacking a common debatearound self-care.
Is it self-care, self-sabotageor something else entirely?
Victoria Tori, this issomething that I feel like, as
counselors, we're supposed to bemodeling and setting examples
(00:53):
for, but sometimes we struggletoo, because we're human, and so
I feel like I see a lot ofmemes teasing about this, one of
the ones sort of like if I buysomething else, my bank
account's going to need therapy.
If I buy another, this, if Ibuy another, that.
Is this something that you feellike is relatable for you as a
human and counselor?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I think it is especially when I think about my
clients and when we talk aboutself-care, I always hear them
talking about like acquiringsomething to help them with the
self-care, which is somethingI'm sure we'll talk about later,
but probably not the mostall-encompassing approach or the
most effective one for likewhat we're meant to be getting
(01:36):
out of self-care.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Right, right, I find myself, if I like something,
it's one one of those.
Maybe this is not necessarily aself-care meme, but it's like
if I like it, I get it in everycolor if I so it's like
something that's comfortable.
My, probably in the last year,most relatable purchases that
(01:58):
kind of align with this are theweighted stuffed animals.
The weighted stuffies she oneor maybe a few, because I have
one on my sofa and one on myleft seat and one in my two in
my bedroom, like it's.
It's the weighted stuffy, butit's like what point?
You know there's a line, right,and so today's episode might go
(02:21):
into some of that.
Really exciting because we aregetting into using social media
more to support the podcast andwe asked on our Insta hey,
what's your go to self care moveand is it actually working for
you?
And some of our listeners andmembers said hey, yeah, exercise
(02:43):
is something mindful walking,breath, work, meditation.
Someone said spending time withtheir, their nieces and nephews
and how easy it is to bepresent, that these were some
ideas.
Now, more than we got answerson like what is your go to move,
we got some answers about is itworking for you and,
(03:03):
interestingly, with that one,50% were kind of in the middle,
saying like sometimes, butthere's room for improvement or
I could work on this.
One person said no, because twoisn't necessarily working.
And then we had some otherfolks who said yeah, there's yes
, what I do works.
So about 12% with the no andthen 38% with the yes.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
It's such a mixed bag .
I'm not surprised about likesometimes yes, sometimes no, and
I think that's something I fallinto and something I see my
clients fall into a lot, where,like, I have my go-to strategies
and I feel like they shouldwork all the time and then when
(03:50):
they don't, I like either forgetthat I can pick something else
or like forget that there'sother options.
They're just kind of like, well, I guess I'm going to be
miserable and that's not helpfuleither.
And so I think I mean I knowwe're going to talk about a lot
of different options today andso hopefully I mean I think
that'll be helpful for me andhopefully that'll be helpful for
my clients and, like anyonewho's listening, because I think
I'm in like a self care, likerut.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, yeah, I totally get that, and I think there's
always like a lot of variablesand I try to ensure, obviously,
if there's something dangerous,we we address that as like okay,
that might not be healthy selfcare.
We want you to be doing thingsthat are oriented towards
wellness and not getting you introuble with the law or
(04:33):
something.
Right, yeah, no crimes, yeah.
So I certainly like do have to,you know, draw a line when
we're talking about self care.
However, I try not to poo-poo Iknow that's real clinical
language Any self-care that isworking for someone, but try to
say it's probably helpful tosort of diversify our portfolio
(04:57):
in this kind of space, becausejust that go-to might not be
useful in certain situations,might not be accessible in
certain situations, and so I'mtrying to make sure that we have
multiple go-tos that we can tryon for size, depending on
what's going on.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, yeah.
The other thing, I think, thatclients run into and maybe even
sometimes we forget ascounselors is like what counts
as self-care, like what isself-care, what is the purpose?
And so, in preparation fortoday, we looked up some
official definitions just tokind of bring us back to our
roots.
And so self-care is officiallydefined by the ACA as activities
(05:41):
that we engage in to sustainwell-being, encompassing
emotional, physical, mental andspiritual aspects.
This proactive approach ensuresthat we can effectively carry
out our responsibilities andserve as positive role models
for each other.
And then the other thing that Ithought was really important is
that the ACA emphasizes thatself-care is not a suggestion
(06:04):
but is actually a professionalresponsibility for counselors.
And we really want to make surethat our self-care is proactive
to prevent burnout, compassion,fatigue if we're getting really
in the weeds, any professionalimpairment that we're
experiencing, which obviously isnot only negatively impacting
us but it's going to impact ourclients as well, and obviously
(06:26):
that's the last thing we want.
And I think that having the ACAdefinition provides a different
kind of insight, becauseself-care is a very like pop
culture, like it's reallyinfiltrated like the zeitgeist,
and so that's like ourprofessional definition like the
zeitgeist, and so that's likeour professional definition.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, and I think even when we think about that,
it extends to sort of how wemodel for clients.
But that pop culture has turnedself-care into something a
little different.
It's more like bubble baths,candles, indulgent behavior.
Activities like you know, oh,shop, enjoy your treats, go to
the spa.
Your activities like you know,oh, shop, enjoy your treats, go
(07:08):
to the spa.
And so this misconception islike that.
This is just such a reductivedefinition.
It's simplifying self-care tojust activities that can be
easily marketed and consumed,when that might, for some people
, be part of the equation.
But it also gives thismisconception that self-care is
inherently selfish or frivolousand maybe doesn't kind of
(07:32):
address like some of the moreauthentic forms of self-care.
And I know we're going to kindof keep digging into it.
But I think it's important forus to consider like that we see
this we see that marketing it'sreally unavoidable because it
might be a commercial althoughmost of us might pay for no
(07:53):
commercials, depending you knowwhere we are but in
advertisements on social media,on television, movies,
billboards, etc.
That we see some of this popculture definition more
frequently and it and themarketing for them works.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So you see people doing stuff on social media and
talking about how great it is,but it's also a marketed,
crafted, curated image ofself-care which maybe isn't fair
yeah, and I think the otherthing that we forget a lot of
times is just because someonehasn't like it's not shown to us
(08:36):
as an ad doesn't mean that itisn't marketing.
And so, like I'm usually, I tryto be like very like locked in
when I'm on social media, likemindful of that.
But like the hatch alarm clockthis like fancy, stupid alarm
clock I have one, it's beautifuland it like has me.
It has me whipped into shape,like I go to bed so much earlier
(08:57):
than I ever did and I'm such anight owl.
But like I also have the likeunderstanding of like okay,
these are things I could haveimplemented for myself.
And like this, like I also havethe like understanding of like
okay, these are things I couldhave implemented for myself.
And like this clock is notnecessary, but I do kind of love
it and it is kind of my bestfriend yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I think it's interesting that we I appreciate
you sharing that examplebecause, like, we fall victim to
the same marketing, even ascounselors, where where we try
to set a model, but we do stillthink sometimes I need help with
this and maybe this, this item,this product, will help fix it
(09:35):
for me, and in some cases it can, and in some ways it may be
like well, that was another,maybe I fell prey to that really
good marketing scheme.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, I think the other thing that can be a little
dangerous about it not to gettoo in the weeds about mental
like marketing for mental healthand self-care is that, yes, the
clock is very helpful and itgives you a signal that it's
time to go to bed, but also,like you have to be the person
to listen to it.
Right, like it is still goingto take some adjustment to your
(10:08):
routine or how you're thinkingabout things.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yes, One of the things that and we'll probably
get into it a little bit laterin the episode, maybe in greater
depth but I think when we'retalking about like trends on
social media, that we must becareful about and important.
I, in terms of just like socialmedia literacy, which you know
is a big thing for me, in termsof like trying to educate and
(10:33):
advocate for people to betterunderstand is that there's a lot
of lived experiences, which isa version of expertise sharing,
and sometimes it's not alwaysbacked by like the
evidence-based stuff that wealso appreciate in our
(10:53):
profession and I think they'reboth very important.
But sometimes we're gettingmarketed a product by someone
who maybe doesn't have abackground in understanding like
why it's working or how itworks, or who may not even care
that it works to be transparentwith you, because they're also
(11:14):
earning income from that, and soit is something that I I guess
it gets layered, but I think,with the trends on social media
that like oh and I'm notminimizing the importance of
this, so I want to be very clearand intentional when I say this
is like fix your gut health andyou're not going to be
depressed, kind of thing.
(11:34):
Like it's reductive in someother ways where, yeah, your gut
health matters and addressingsome of those things could be
really helpful in terms ofmental health symptoms as well,
and addressing some of thosethings could be really helpful
in terms of mental healthsymptoms as well.
I'm not here to say that thatcan't be the case, but I think
sometimes it's being sold aslike definitive solutions where
that may not always be accurateeither.
(11:57):
So it's like these self carethings of like take this
supplement and your life will bebetter, kind of thing may not
always be just a fair portrayal.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that makes it
tough and like I don't know thatthe onus of responsibility is
on, like the marketing people orthe influencers who are
promoting it, but like theydon't have the expertise to
influence how they'reapproaching the topics, like
you've already said,intentionality a couple of times
, which I talk about a lot whenwe're talking about self-care,
(12:31):
like there's a differencebetween like taking a bubble
bath and taking a bubble bath inthe interest of wellness.
But also I think about I try toI talk a lot with my clients,
even like the five-year-olds,about considering your whole
person and thinking moreholistically and so if you're
(12:51):
really sleepy but your mainself-care is more physical, like
going for a run, that might notbe the most appropriate
intervention for that second.
And so the intentionality andalso like considering lots of
different factors is soimportant yeah, yeah, and I
think it's a it's where is thatline like?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
the intentionality sometimes helps us determine
where the line between self-careand self-sabotage, where we're
kind of like entering intodangerous territory, where that
line gets drawn.
There are different types ofself-care.
And I think where we're kind oflike entering into dangerous
territory, where that line getsdrawn, there are different types
of self-care.
I think it's important for usto run through some of like the
main types this may not be anexhaustive list, but just trying
(13:34):
to kind of put them intocategories and umbrellas is
there's like the physical, theemotional, social, practical
which we'll define a little bitmore here in a minute and
spiritual.
But we're kind of looking atthose to say, okay, here's where
it might be self care.
And as we kind of go throughthat spectrum on that type of
(13:55):
self care where it might get alittle bit more to like the self
sabotage.
And so with physical, it's likegetting sleep, getting like
adequate nutrition and movement,netflix marathons, like
disguised as recovery and rest,like yeah, we need rest.
But if we're saying that that'swhat it is and we're binging
(14:16):
and we're kind of avoiding theother things that might help us
maintain and care for ourselves.
Is that becoming self-sabotage?
Maintain and care for ourselves?
Is that becoming self-sabotageWith emotional stuff?
Journaling, going to therapycan really be useful in
self-care if we are ventingendlessly in our group chats, is
that effective?
Not saying it can't be, but it'slike gauging the intentionality
(14:39):
behind it and when it's maybebecoming sometimes less helpful
or more harmful, even social,making healthy connections
versus maybe like trauma dumpingor trauma bonding and I don't
love those terms because I thinkthey're misconceived.
We might have a differentepisode about unpacking
(15:01):
misconceptions from social media, pop psychology but practical
stuff, budgeting, declutteringversus retail therapy that, like
meditation and nature walks,might be part of like a
spiritual self-care.
But spiritual bypassing, toxicpositivity, good vibes only
(15:25):
might be a little bit more ofthe self-sabotage when it comes
to some of those things too.
So I can kind of look back inmy life and reflect and say, yep
, I've done the self-sabotageversion of some of these pretty,
pretty easily, and so it's.
It's not that we don't know,it's about getting behind the
intentionality behind it, as youwere bringing up before, and
(15:49):
thinking about hey, is thishelpful, is this harmful?
Where's the line?
Because it could be both, butmaybe it just depends on the
duration or frequency.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, I think one of the things that can be kind of
hard about it is that when weare getting into, maybe, an
overindulgence area where, like,we have watched 10 hours of
Netflix or we've sent 30 groupchat messages in a row, that
stuff still feels nice, it stillfeels productive, or it's like
yes, obviously I ate the wholechocolate cake.
(16:26):
It tasted amazing.
Like.
So we like, when we're thinkingabout intentionality, I think
that's a little easier to likethink through in the moment,
because intentional, whileimportant, is a little vague and
(16:50):
so, like, some of the questionswe can ask ourselves or clients
is like, am I using this asavoidance?
Because, even if you are gettinga lot out of your meditation,
if you're meditating instead oflike washing your hair or doing
your progress notes or otherthings that are going to kind of
like further your being, thatcan be hard and I know that,
(17:13):
like my house is never cleanerthan when I'm behind on notes,
or like when I was in school,exam week, finals week, I would
have the cleanest, mostsparkling architectural digest.
There's a new photo gallery onthe wall.
Like situation in my house,because I was like I don't want
to read that stuff that I wrotea month ago.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
I'm laughing because I relate.
But it would be on the side ofthe counselor, educator, that if
I had a lot of grading to do,you would never see like my
house cleaner, more organized,like to the point where I had to
figure out ways to like combatthat right.
Like what can I do to sort ofhelp me be motivated?
Because, well, it's great tohave a clean home and feel
organized there.
(17:55):
It was avoidant of the otherthings that were necessary for
me to be able to function.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, I mean yeah it's tough because like that
does feel good or it helps us inother areas of our life, but
like it's unbalancing our littlepie chart, right Cause.
Then it's like your house beingclean is taking up too much and
not I don't know studentswaiting for their grades back
not speaking from experience,not that that was ever a problem
(18:26):
.
I'm not dragging you.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
And I think, hey, no, avoidant like tendencies with
like some of this stuff as wellas like sometimes I'll like
label it as like a distractioncoping mechanism, aren't
inherently bad.
It's like, to the degree thatwe do it and that we want to,
like I was saying earlier,diversify the portfolio, Like we
(18:49):
can't, you know, wanting todistract or disconnect from
something or avoid it, like, inessence, can be useful.
It's helpful for us tosometimes set things down, and
yet the word avoidance, I think,shows a different
intentionality than likedisconnecting or distracting.
It's like a conscious choice of, and so I don't know, I mean, I
(19:13):
would still probably lump themtogether in a lot of ways, but
there's some research to support.
We'll link it like a researchstudy showing that, like
avoidance, coping specificallydoes increase anxiety over time,
and so at the end of the day,there's, you know, the return on
that investment.
Not great.
(19:35):
We don't want that to become,like then, an additional problem
.
So we understand howconfronting it can be useful,
even if maybe we need todisconnect temporarily.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, I think one of the other things like just if
we're talking about balance,right Is like sometimes the
answer is to go get yourself anice little treat or like.
Like, if I have like a daywhere I know I have a bunch of
emails I'm bad at emails, I'llown up to it, I am not I'm
getting better at them, but likeI know that a way bunch of
emails I'm bad at emails, I'llown up to it, I am not I'm
(20:06):
getting better at them, but likeI know that a way that will get
me to sit down and do my emailsis to go get like a nice little
drink from like a coffee shopnearby, or like.
Sometimes my brain is like Ican't do that.
And then I'm like, what if weate Nerds Gummy Clusters while
we did it?
My brain's like, oh yeah,that's fine then.
Actually I love nerds, gummyclusters Not sponsored.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I tricked my brain to do laundry last night.
I said once you do your laundryand fold it, put it away.
Sorry, my cat's making noiseshere.
Once you do that, you can goget a popsicle.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Oh my God, I love that.
The other side of that, though,is like how often are we
getting little treats?
Because that can be a strainnot only on, like I don't know
if I eat too much sugar my bodydoesn't love that but also like
I think you made a joke about itearlier like our wallets
probably don't like that as well.
Yeah, and we don't want tocreate, like you said, like more
(21:02):
anxiety by trying to makeourselves feel better.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Mm, hmm, create like you said, like more anxiety by
trying to make ourselves feelbetter.
Yeah, I think there's a lotthat goes into it.
I also think, like, sometimes,like if we feel like we're
setting boundaries aroundcertain things to help care for
ourselves, they can cause strainin our relationships.
And I'm not saying ignore,forget all boundaries and
(21:26):
sometimes we have rigidboundaries for very specific and
intentional reasons.
But sometimes it's like we missout on things that could be
positive self-care, a greatexample.
I'm very, I would say, rigid.
I don't know if that's how otherpeople would characterize it or
not, but I'm weird about mySundays.
(21:47):
Right, I like to be home by acertain time on a Sunday so that
, even if I'm all caught up onlaundry and all everything is
like in its place, I still feellike I have time to like rest,
relax mentally, feel moreprepared for like the week
beginning again on Monday.
Last Sunday I went to a cookoutat my friend's house.
(22:13):
Like it was pleasant.
I was out much later on aSunday than I normally would be
and if you, if I had known I wasgoing to be out that late,
honestly I probably would havebeen like oh, maybe I should
just not go, right, yeah, butthen you miss out on, like maybe
some of the social interactions, like the kind of temporary
(22:36):
vacation of having just socialengagement and connection that
isn't related to the to-do listor the work week or what have
you, and so it's like that cancause issues, too right, where
we're like self-sabotaging in away, that like we're denying
ourselves things that bring usjoy too.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, and I think not to like broken record balance,
but also if we know that we havea habit.
I have a problem of saying yesto too many things just because
I like to be around my friendsor I like to do things for work,
and so I try to sit down overthe weekend, usually on Sunday,
(23:20):
and look at my schedule and makesure that I can actually do
everything I need to do and, ifnot, like where that needs to
change.
And I think even that like kindof organizational time is very
self-care focused for me,because I don't know what day it
is today, and so when it's likeThursday and I said I would go
(23:40):
to this lunch and I would havethis thing done for a friend,
and you know I, I can get alittle like swept up in it, and
so I try to build in that time.
And I have have this thing donefor a friend, and you know I, I
can get a little like swept upin it, and so I try to build in
that time and I have to put iton a calendar or it doesn't
happen.
Like my color coded beautifulcalendar is that I changed for
the seasons, so like right nowit's like pinks and blues, and
then in a couple of weeks I'mtrying to hold off.
(24:02):
I'm an early fall apologist,but in a couple of weeks I'll
change it to like oranges andbrowns and like apple red
anyways.
But I think like calendar timeis very self-care for me and I
do some of the pop cultureself-care stuff too, like I do
light a candle and I do like puton mood lighting or like sit in
(24:23):
like my fluffy pajamas to do it.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
But also there's like a much more practical version
of that too yeah and yeah, and Ithink that's like grounding
right, like some of the sensorystuff can be really grounding,
so it's not all inherently bad.
It's about like, okay, are weusing that to also maybe avoid
other work, or or something.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah.
And then I think the otherthing that is a little hard for
me because I'm someone who kindof goes all in a little too
quickly on things and changes.
I have to try to scale it backis like how sustainable is this
thing?
I'm trying to do Like?
I don't know?
If you saw it, there was thislike person's morning routine
(25:07):
going around.
It kind of became an internetjoke where he got up three in
the morning and dunked his facein spring mountain water out of
a beautiful glass bottle and wasdoing pushups on his balcony.
Great, I don't know him.
I'm not trying to slander himand his morning routine, but I
(25:27):
can't imagine that he does thatevery single day or that he can
continue to do that every singleday.
And how sustainable that or howsustainable is that for someone
watching that?
And they're like, oh, I wish Icould do that.
Maybe not the mountain waterbottle, unless they're into that
but like getting up so earlyand doing all these things
before work, like we don't knowwhat his job is like, that might
(25:52):
not be sustainable for someonewho has like a nine to five or
who works nights or somethinglike that.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, yeah, it's about finding what works for you
, which sometimes does have thatlike individual, you know
component of like what, what'sgoing on in my world, like that
context is important, certainly,like there's a lot.
I think that we can flex insome ways when we're thinking
about things that aren't costinga lot of money.
(26:15):
But then it's some of thoserestraints and, you know, I
think to that point we get a lotof marketing that's like
watered down versions of stuffthat, like people who maybe have
a ton of money can do and issustainable, but like maybe not.
So for just like someone likeus, like I don't want to say
(26:37):
someone more human we're allhuman but like I, you know, just
someone who's not in the 1%, Iguess, like where it's, it's
okay.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah, this is probably not something that's
realistic yeah in the long termI think the other thing we can
get into is like seeing examplesin like media, like fictional
examples, and that being notachievable just because it's not
based in reality.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
You know I'm a Bravo-holic proudly, I love
Bravo TV and the Real HousewivesCertainly, like probably are
marketed as like aspirationalthings and they're carrying
Birkin bags and they're going toget all these spa treatments
and things like that.
It's like oh yeah, like love,that like good for you, but also
(27:31):
that might not be how you know,I can't go drop a bunch of
money, you know, at the LouisVuitton store today.
Like that's not realistic andprobably, you know, in a
temporary moment I might feelgood about but like might have
regret and and discomfort withafter and so you know, great if
(27:53):
you can treat yourself, but ifyou can't like, then where does
it become?
Like problematic, and sometimesthe pop culture and social
media really love to promotethese other things.
Right, there's memes you knowabout, like how people engage in
self care, one of my favoritesand I I don't like I probably
(28:19):
wasn't a religious watcher ofParks and Rec, but I feel like
the treat yourself bit with Tomand Donna, right, yes, yeah, I
was a religious parks and recwatcher.
But that is like very common.
We'll probably put it in oursocial media posts related to
this episode so you can check itout on Ohio Counseling on
(28:40):
Instagram, Check us out at theOhio Counseling Association on
Facebook.
But it's about like hey, oneday a year we kind of like say
there are no rules, it's youwant that, Treat yourself.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, do you want fine leather goods?
Treat yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, yeah, but that's fun and we laugh and we
chuckle.
But risky, right.
If you had a day where you justwere like hey, like yeah, it
can be really fun, but even withthat being intentional and
setting boundaries around it,because that could become like
very dangerous very quickly forfor anyone in the real world,
right.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Oh yeah, I think the thing I love the most about that
episode is like Tom and Donnaare like getting ready to leave
and they see there, for thosewho haven't partaken in Parks
and Rec, they see like he's Iwant to say he's like newer to
the office at that point.
But they see Ben thecharacter's name is Ben sitting
on a bench eating soup alone andthey're like no, he needs to
(29:37):
treat himself.
And they take him to the malland he's like no, I treated
myself, I got socks.
And like Tom at one point callshimself a cashmere velvet candy
cane.
Because like he's kind of goinga little too far.
That's great, it's incredible,it's so powerful.
The whole episode I reallyhighly recommend.
But it's like they're kind ofoverindulging, right, and Ben is
(30:00):
very much underindulging andlike Donna asked him, she's like
like if you could blow bigmoney on one thing not stock
money, what would it be?
And he is like a kind of a moreemotionally stunted character,
I would say.
And he buys himself a batmancostume, like not a party city,
(30:20):
like a high-end batman costume,and it's like kind of an
emotional catharsis for him tolike care about his needs and he
starts crying and like theyplay it for a joke, like Tom's,
like uh-oh, batman's.
Crying like this isn't safe.
But it is like a really sweetmoment if you look at it in
abstract or with, like yourcounselor hat on, like he's
(30:41):
honoring what makes him happy inthat moment.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, and I know we touched on like the social media
elements of like self-carebeing disguised as marketing.
But I think it is important tokind of just reiterate that that
like, even if it's hashtag, notan ad, it probably is a curated
message, and like I feel likeit's just so much more common
now we have to maybe reallyreflect on some questions to say
(31:15):
like, how do I check myself, tosort of check in that this is
intentional check in, that thisisn't doing something that's
going to harm me.
And I think that this alsocomes back to sometimes like the
definitions.
I know we touched on thoseearlier and one part of
self-care is also like just thebasics, which I think sometimes
get defined more as like aself-maintenance.
(31:37):
Self-maintenance is generallynot enough to kind of give us
the joy that we need to refuelthe way self-care activities
might so like yeah, gettingsleep is great, getting proper
nutrition, getting outdoors,getting, you know, engaged
socially.
Sometimes those are just aboutmaintaining the self-care
(32:00):
sometimes takes it into a waythat we also get joy that feels
restorative, not just likekeeping us maintained, so to
speak.
And I think it's important whenwe think about some of the
literature behind this is thatthere are studies that show self
care, like legitimate self care, can boost your focus.
It reduces burnout.
It's also something where wecan look at like some of these
(32:24):
other things to contribute, andwe know, like staying socially
connected, it's a number onepredictor from an 80 year
longitudinal study from Harvard,number one predictor of
happiness.
And so we have to think aboutsome of these things and say,
okay, what am I doing tomaintain myself, what am I doing
to create joy?
And then also like, how do Ireflect on things to make sure
(32:47):
that these are kind of fallinginto those maintenance or joy
categories and not the sabotageavoidant space?
So I think you have some ideasabout some good questions, maybe
to go with that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I think I do this a lot with my I don't know what it
.
I work a lot with kids andteens, but I have a group of
adult clients as well, and a lotof my adult clients.
It's like a big theme that theyare not super great at
self-care or they just feel likeit's a waste of time or they
don't know how to do it.
So they're kind of likeself-care babies and we're
learning together, and so one ofthe questions I always ask them
(33:24):
is like, how is this going tomake you feel in five minutes?
What about five days in fiveweeks?
And sometimes we even talk aboutlike in five years, like if
they're doing something bigger,like they're going on a vacation
, like their first vacation in20 years or something, and we
talk about like the lastingimpact and how future you is
going to feel about it, andmaybe future you is going to be
(33:45):
really proud that you bought abeautiful Batman costume, but
maybe future you is also goingto regret your velvet cashmere
candy cane and then some of theother things we talked about it,
which I think we've touched ona lot of these throughout the
episode.
But like are we avoidingsomething that we need to do
instead?
Like should we be doing a facemask if our house doesn't have
(34:06):
any windows?
Or like should we, you know,like we have to.
Like I pull out the pyramid ofneeds like Maslow's hierarchy of
needs all the time for clients.
And I'm like have you eatentoday?
Let's start there.
Do you have a place to existand then we can talk about?
I haven't seen the housewiveslately and that's really doing a
(34:27):
number on me.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
And I think that that's like you know you're
going to like I get excitedabout housewives.
But that's such a good pointwith the Maslow's hierarchy,
because when we're talking aboutmaintenance versus like the
care and joy, restorative things, if the maintenance stuff isn't
being done, it is hard toaccess the other stuff yeah, and
(34:50):
in like, mental, emotional,sometimes physical ways.
So it is important that we'retalking about all of it.
And I will say often when Ihave clients who are really
struggling, I don't know that weget to the self care things.
Yeah, I might use the word selfcare, but it probably is more
of that maintenance of likelet's go back to the basics how
(35:10):
are you sleeping?
Are you hydrated?
Have you had meals?
Like, are you?
You know, like what are wedoing here?
Because it's kind of morechallenging to experience the
other things like or we mightnot get to experience the full
range of that if we're lackingin some of these basic
maintenance skills too.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, and I think that's hard for clients, but
also counselors, to understand.
Sometimes, just because you'reat the most beautiful spa in the
world does not mean you'regoing to be relaxed at the end.
If you're there and they onlyoffer you a cucumber sandwich
but you're starving, like that'snot going to be relaxing, right
, yeah, and so we have to alsolike think about okay, I'm going
(35:55):
to do this thing, excellent,that's like hurdle one, but then
can you jump that hurdle Right?
Do we have the preparationwhere doing the self-care
activity, whatever it may be, isgoing to actually like do
something for you?
Speaker 1 (36:12):
I also, especially in terms of maintenance, but I
think it extends to self-care.
I think about and I encourageclients to consider and I try to
, you know, reflect on this as aan individual too, too is, do I
feel like I have to earn it,like I wouldn't tell you know I
I don't have children, but Iwouldn't tell a child that they
(36:35):
had to earn their nap yeah,right that those are things that
, like we, inherently need tofunction oh, that's such a good
point and and so especially withthe maintenance.
But I think it probably extendsto some of this self care.
Like we, you, you want kids tobe able to play, they learn
through play.
Like you, you wouldn't say like, you have to earn the
(36:58):
opportunity to play like and Iknow we do do that.
So that could go into a wholedifferent kind of dissertation
here about, like you know,earning recess or things like
that.
But I think some of that hasshifted and evolved with time
and as it should.
But yeah, I think that theseare things that are really
helpful to think about.
I appreciate you bringing upthe hierarchy of needs, because
(37:20):
I think that applies here inthis context for sure.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah, I think it applies in most contexts.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Well, right, that's.
I think it applies in mostcontexts.
Well, right, that's the pointof it, right.
But I think in just evaluating,hey, you do need those things,
these are important things whenit becomes sabotage is maybe
when we're also like not meetingthe other needs.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yeah, yeah, the balance is off.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, yeah, okay.
Are there other reflectivequestions you have that you feel
like we should be askingourselves so that we know when
we're blurring the line?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
We've talked about determining if it's a
distraction or restorative.
I do think one of the things Ido with clients, and there's
lots of different versions ofthis, so I'd encourage you to
poke around and find questionsthat you think are impactful or
important.
But sometimes buying somethingis self-care or it is going to
(38:21):
better our lives in some way,and so I'll do kind of like an
impulse spending checklist,especially if it is a bigger
purchase with a client and beinglike could I borrow this?
Do I have a space in my housefor this?
Am I going to imagine myselfusing this in three years?
When will this thing need to bereplaced?
Is it sustainable?
Past that, like, I had a clientwho we were talking about.
(38:42):
They wanted to make a changefrom buying coffee out and they
wanted to have coffee at homeand they wanted to get like an
espresso machine, which I havean espresso machine.
But then we were kind oftalking about like, besides the
initial investment, you have tokeep buying the pots, and so
eventually she kind of decidedto do like a normal espresso
machine that you can grind thebeans for yourself or just buy
(39:05):
pre-ground and so that, and weactually just talked about that
somewhat recently.
But she was like that was likeit was a little more effort at
first to figure out how itworked, but it's so much better
now and she doesn't have to likefuss with the little pods and
everything too.
So, like talk, like doing someof those questions about like
how would this thing fit in mylife?
And I think those things canwork for non-purchases as well.
(39:28):
Like okay, you want to startdoing yoga at home, right?
Like do we have all theequipment for that?
Do we have the resourcesgathered?
Like what can we do to prepare?
So I think even not to add moresteps to engaging in self-care
which can be challenging anyways, but doing a little bit of prep
work to make sure, like ifcooking is self care, for you
(39:50):
chop all your vegetables first,right, and that can apply in
lots of different contexts.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah, yeah, I think one that just speaks to the, the
statements we've already beenmaking is just what's my
intention behind this action,like, and sort of then maybe
reflecting with some of thoseother questions is it avoidant?
Is it restorative, like, butwhat is my intention in choosing
this, whether it's purchasingan item or engaging in an
(40:18):
activity, and sort of sittingwith that for a minute before we
make the decision of, okay,like, and can I make the case
for like, this then being achoice that that aligns with my
goals and my wellness?
yeah, and even that causesself-care yeah, right, right,
(40:41):
very good, appreciate thatobservation.
So gonna switch gears and kindof wrap up with a game that we
may play on some of these futureepisodes of let's unpack that.
But unpack or put it back.
A really rapid fire questionwhere we decide if we would
unpack this, meaning we keep it,we like it, or we put it back
(41:02):
to say no, that can go, we canleave that one behind.
So today we're going to gothrough some self-care trends
and go through if we wouldunpack or put it back.
So, tori, first on the list,crystal-infused water bottles
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Okay, I think normal water bottle unpack
Crystal-infused.
I'm kind of like what's thatcrystal's deal?
So I think I would put acrystal water bottle back.
But that might be my likeanxiety happening about what the
crystals up to.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Okay, yeah, I can appreciate that.
I I feel like I'm such adiplomat about things I'm like,
well, I don't know, is there amiddle ground somewhere here?
Because I say unpack for thosewho want it, right.
Yeah, I'm not mad at it, right,but I may be a less
enthusiastic.
A less enthusiastic.
Unpack.
(41:54):
I like a crystal, don't get mewrong.
I just maybe, maybe I'm not aswell versed in the water bottle,
so yeah, I just I can't imaginehow they work.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Maybe that's a me like how are the crystals
getting in there?
Are they just floating aroundLike what's up?
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Well, I mean we could Google image search and show
you some are, I think, like morelike secure implanted, from
what I understand you know, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Anyways, that's a me problem.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, okay, anyways, that's a new problem.
No, no, I yeah, I'm very in themiddle on that.
So I'm, yeah moderate when itcomes to crystal infused water
bottles.
But how about hot girl walks?
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
I vote unpack.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
I love it.
I have a hot girl walk playliston my phone I also.
There are many that exist outthere in the ether on like Apple
Music and Spotify and I'm suremany other places, and if you're
not familiar with what thismeans, it's basically just like
an empowered hey, go for a walkand like listen to the music.
(43:03):
That kind of pumps you up, andthat's my interpretation of it.
But yes, I love a hot girl walk.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
This might be like a slight aside, and not in the
name of rapid things, but whatis on your playlist, like who is
on there?
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Okay, let me get my phone Okay.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
I'll talk while you get your thing.
My playlist has a lot of dochi.
I'm very into a dochi momentright now.
My playlist does not have aconsistent vibe.
There's a lot of Taylor.
Swift there has a lot of Dochi.
I'm very into a Dochi momentright now.
My playlist does not have aconsistent vibe.
There's a lot of Taylor Swift.
There's a lot of Mariah Carey.
I think there's some OneDirection hits.
I think there's like thesoundtrack from the Broadway
musical version of Anastasia.
Like what isn't on the Hot GirlWalk playlist.
(43:42):
Hot girls are about eclecticism.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Okay, so I'm just going to do some rapid fire
artists from the playlist,because there are some that are
on there more than once.
The greatest showman soundtrackbeyonce lizzo, belbiv, devoe um
mia zed, marin morris, greatmegan, the stallion, lipa, doja
Cat and Tyga.
(44:05):
New Kids on the Block Drake,the Supremes, iconic Taylor
Swift, mariah Carey, lado Lizzo,again Jess Glynn and more
Beyonce.
So just a quick rapid fire ofthat playlist, but that's not
the only one.
There's some other ones thatgive similar vibes that don't
(44:27):
have the same title in terms ofhot girl walk, but that is my,
that is straight from my hotgirl walk playlist I love so,
yes, and as you can tell, I hope, by the sound of my voice, that
it does bring me great joy anda little bit eclectic, but with
a theme.
I think with the theme it's allhigh vibe music yes, yes, yeah,
we're not listening to.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
I love her but, like Phoebe Bridgers is not coming on
, the hot girl walk Unlessthat's your definition of hot
girl.
Maybe you're having a sad girlwalk and that's powerful too.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Can be, yes, yes, but unpack for a hot girl walk.
What about digital detoxweekends?
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
I think unpack in theory.
I'm bad at it, but I'm gettingbetter at like putting my phone
on a do not disturb for a littlebit of time.
I think unpack now and unpackmore in the future.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
I'm like is it okay if I say put it back?
I with intention, I feel likeI've gotten better over the
years and I certainly will saythere's always room for
improvement.
But I actually feel like I amdigitally detoxed so much during
the week that it is self carefor me to be a little bit more
indulgent with some of thethings that I feel like maybe I
(45:40):
miss out on during the busy workdays and such because I am on
do not disturb, you knowsignificantly when I'm working.
And so I will say maybecontroversial, especially given
like that I studied digitaladdictions Put it back.
I love that.
(46:01):
Stand in your truth.
For me, for you, for otherpeople, I think it is an unpack
for sure.
What about retail therapysplurges?
Unpack, put it back.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
I am a put it back and not just in a teacher's pet
way.
I think my version of that islike I love looking at
ridiculous things like right nowmy obsession is a traveler's
notebook which is like a leathernotebook that you can change
out the inserts in, and myversion.
I don't actually buy it, but Ilove going on and designing it
(46:34):
with all the little charms thatyou can add to it and things.
So but I, I, I'm very like Ihave to think about things for a
really long time before I buythem and so for that reason I'm
a put it back before I buy them.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
And so for that reason I'm a put it back.
I will say put it back.
Yes.
While I like some retailtherapy, I think the splurge
part of it is what makes me sayput it back, because that's at
least the way it is.
Simply put, I feel like splurgemakes it unhealthy.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Yeah, no I agree.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
How about no bad vibes wall art?
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Probably put it back.
I think that gets into a littlebit of toxic positivity, not
honoring how we're feeling.
Like I said, sometimes you haveto go on a sad girl walk, so I
think I'd put back the no badvibes part of the wall art.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
Wholeheartedly agree.
Too much toxic positivity there.
Love some wall art, just maybea different choice.
Yeah, put it back.
How about adult coloring books?
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Unpack over and over again.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Any coloring book.
It can be a child's coloringbook.
Yeah, I love yes.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, it can be adigital one.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Love it.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
How about essential oil diffusers?
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Unpack in spaces without pets, because sometimes
essential oil is bad for pets.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
And so that's yeah, that was going gonna say put it
back for the very same reason,also because sometimes I think
that that's maybe to the pointswe were making earlier they're
not obviously inherently bad butlike the social media marketing
spaces can be kind of icky withwith promoting some of that
stuff too, as like the solutionto your problem, which I don't,
(48:27):
you know, I concur, I I don'tdisagree that we can't have like
these types of solutions, butjust like it's not a maybe pixel
, agree wholeheartedly middaybubble baths, unpack or put it
back.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Unpack if you have the time to spare and you're
into that.
If you have the time to spareand you're into that, which I
sometimes do, yeah, love, I feelit feels a little indulgent,
yeah, but I am kind of into that.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
I say unpack, unpack, unpack, unpack, unpack.
I love a bubble bath.
My mother will tell this storyand I might be oversharing here,
but I think it will be at leastanecdotally fun, maybe for you
I hope for you as a listener athome.
But when I was a kid, wheneverI was like having a tough time,
(49:17):
she was like throw the kid in abubble bath, like she will get
better.
It was just she knew this isgrounding for my child and I
don't know why.
And she made up this song whichI am about to sing.
It is like the simplest thingbut it brings me joy even to
this day, and so I also justassociate bubble baths with like
helping me feel better.
(49:37):
And they still do work.
But she would say bubbles,bubbles, take away my troubles.
Bubbles, bubbles, they make mesmile again.
I am obsessed with that and Ijust have to tell you that
that's the home I grew up in.
We made up a lot of songs and Istill make up a lot of songs
and I sing them to my cats now.
(49:58):
So just so you all know, thatis me unpack bubble bath midday,
evening, morning, whenever youcan get it in.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Yeah, that's about my spotify wrapped this year the
bubble song.
It's shooting straight to thetop.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
It's gonna.
Yeah, that's gonna be a hit.
I think just wait till all ohio, because I might sing some
songs during our presentationtoo.
So we have to sing soft.
Plug weighted blankets, unpackor put it back, okay.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Before I had one I was kind of like a very light
put it back.
But then I got one unpack allday long Love.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
So my answer is probably going to shock you
because I'm going to say put itback.
As I just earlier talked aboutmy weighted stuffies, I feel
like those are a little bit moreaccessible for me.
I've had some chronic painissues and I think the weighted
blanket I had maybe it was justtoo heavy or yeah, like
prevented my my mobility in waysthat was not great, so good for
(50:59):
people.
I like the sensory idea of itfor me personally.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Put it back and, you know, substitute with a stuffy
yeah, I can't use mine when it'shot like it has.
It's like a winter fall kind ofunpack for me.
I do put it back spring andsummer.
It goes in a little tote away,yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
I like the sensory parts of it.
I for me personally, it was.
It was causing issues with someof my pain, and so I just
self-accommodated with othertools.
Yes, with the stuffies instead,solo dinner dates.
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Okay, similar to the last one, I would put it back
before I did it.
But now unpack all day long,anytime I'm going alone, I don't
have to talk to anyone.
I'm taking my Kindle, I'mtaking time to look at the
beautiful restaurant, even if itis an Olive Garden.
They have a charm about them.
Unpack, it's so nice.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
I agree wholeheartedly Unpack, and for
me and for others on this onebecause it is something where we
have an opportunity to likelean into discomfort especially
if it's not something thatyou've done and really engage in
like sensory ways andexperience, like the environment
(52:20):
in in ways that are differentsometimes than when it we may
miss something.
If we're socially goingsomewhere where we don't get to
like take it in as much, I thinkit gives us opportunities to
sort of be more present.
Even if it's a littleuncomfortable, I think it can be
beneficial.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
Yeah, I'm so glad you said that because I think one
of the things that is hard formy clients to get sometimes and
not to get too into it, but,like, sometimes self-care
doesn't feel nice Sometimes it'simportant to do something
that's uncomfortable, that'sgoing to further us in the
future.
Speaker 1 (52:54):
Well, right, and trying something new that's not
like something that you'veusually gone to and used as a
coping mechanism is going to beuncomfortable at first.
Right, it's going to maybe notfeel like self-care in the
immediate moment, but we can seehow did we feel after that.
Right, how did I feel aftertrying this new thing?
(53:17):
Maybe I was, maybe I metsomeone, or maybe it was just
nice to be in this experiencewhere I was able to, like,
engage in the sensory parts ofthe experience that I am
sometimes a little bit moreunaware or passive with because
I was doing it solo.
Yeah, and prove to yourselflike that you can do things
(53:38):
independently, which I think isis helpful for a lot of folks.
I'm sure that there's somepeople who may say, nope, put it
back, I'm not interested, andthat's okay.
Okay too, but I say, unpack forcertain anything that you put
back that we feel like we couldreimagine to where it would then
become something we couldunpack, I think I'm thinking
(54:00):
first of the oil diffuser.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
I think if, like, sensory grounding by way of
scent is something that'spowerful for you, I think that's
super valid and I even I dothat a lot with clients.
When we're getting a littledysregulated and I did that a
lot with myself If I'm gettingin like a bit of a panicky mood
I think scents are verygrounding.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
Yeah, I will obvious.
I think I already said thissort of during, but like the
digital detox weekend, even forme, I will say I think I already
said this sort of during, butlike the digital detox weekend,
even for me, I will say thereare certain times when I feel
like I am able to detox.
I try when I go on trips andtravel, like I might use the
camera, but I really do try tovacate the rest and I
communicate less with, like,people who are not with me so
(54:44):
that I can stay present, and soI think it being intentional
with it, then is is reallyreally meaningful to me.
Oh yeah, so I'll say that'shealthy self care, even though
on a typical weekend I probablydon't want to.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
Yeah, it's about a balance, as always.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
Well, this kind of wraps up this edition of let's
Unpack that.
A little bit longer, but reallyfun to sort of unpack this and
I hope that this helps youreflect as a listener of hey,
where am I maybe operating in away that could be too close to
that boundary, or are thereother ways that I need to engage
(55:24):
in, maybe different types ofrestorative activities?
We know like self-care is justa tool that we have in our
toolbox and we just want to be alittle bit more intentional
about it.
So thank you for joining us forthis edition.
Thank you, tori Victoria.
I'm glad you're here to help meunpack this.
My gosh, I loved it Time of mylife.
(55:47):
And if you haven't gone alongand followed us, remember it's
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Ohio Counting Association onFacebook and LinkedIn.
Make sure you're subscribed tothe podcast so you never miss an
update.
If you have any questions,feedback or a topic that you'd
like us to unpack, be sure todrop us a line.
You can send us a text from thelink in our show notes or just
(56:08):
shoot us a DM on socials.
Thanks for joining us for let'sUnpack that brought to you by
Ohio Counseling Conversationsand the Ohio Counseling
Association.
If it sparks something for you,share it with a colleague or
drop us a line.
We'd love to keep theconversation going.
Thanks for listening and untilnext time we encourage you to
keep unpacking the big stuff,one conversation at a time.
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Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com