November 18, 2025 • 31 mins
Why is it so hard for counselors to take their own advice? Despite preaching self-care and healing to clients, many mental health professionals struggle to prioritize their own therapy. Victoria Frazier and Marisa Cargill dive deep into this paradox with refreshing honesty and vulnerability.
The hosts challenge the harmful misconception that seeking counseling somehow diminishes a counselor's credibility or effectiveness. "Just because we know something doesn't mean we don't need support to access that motivation to change," they point out, highlighting the universal truth that knowledge alone doesn't guarantee application. Both hosts openly share their positive experiences with their own counselors, demonstrating how personal therapy enhances rather than undermines their professional capabilities.
Beyond addressing common fears—like appearing "too fragile" or incompetent—the conversation explores the surprising benefits of counselors getting counseling. From gaining fresh perspectives and metaphors (Tori's counselor uses horse-riding analogies she now shares with clients) to experiencing the vulnerability of being on the other side of the couch, therapy provides invaluable insights that textbooks simply can't teach.
The episode culminates in a playful yet insightful game of "Unpack or Put It Back," where the hosts evaluate common therapeutic interactions from the client-counselor perspective. Their verdict on counselors who bring vulnerability to sessions? Enthusiastically "unpack!" Their take on counselors who ask clients for professional advice during paid sessions? Definitely "put it back!"
For counselors considering their own healing journey, for clients curious about their counselor's mental health practices, or for anyone interested in breaking down stigma around seeking help, this episode offers both practical wisdom and permission to embrace imperfection.
What do you think? Send us your questions or topics you'd like us to unpack!
OCA Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/ohiocounseling
Connect with Us
Stay in touch and join the conversation:
- Instagram: @OhioCounseling
- Facebook: facebook.com/ohiocounseling
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ohio-counseling-association-b78256165/
****
If you’re a counselor in Ohio and would like to get involved as part of production or as a guest, or know someone who might be interested, please email us at ohiocounselingconversations@gmail.com!
****
Created by the OCA's Media, Public Relations, and Membership (MPRM) Committee & its Podcast Subcommittee
·Hosted by Marisa Cargill & Victoria Frazier
·Pre-Production & Coordination by Marisa Cargill and Victoria Frazier
·Editing by Leah Wood & Marisa Cargill
·Original music selections by Elijah Satoru Wood
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to let's Unpack that a short-form segment
from Ohio CounselingConversations, where we dig into
the topics, tools and truthsthat shape our work as
counselors.
Whether it's a trending issue,a clinical insight or something
we've all been thinking about,we're here to process it
together.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome back to let's Unpack that.
I'm Victoria Frazier and I'mMarissa Cargill, and today we
are exploring some commonmisconceptions about counselors
seeking their own care.
It's so important as people ina helping and healing profession
that we make sure we're takingcare of ourselves Amen.
But it does not always happento the degree that it should.
(00:49):
Right, and I think I alwaysthink about, like my first day
in my counseling program when wewere all sitting in like the
ballroom and they were preachinglike work-life balance and
making sure you're taking careof yourself, and I feel like
that fades throughout your gradprogram, and then I think it
fades even more as you areentering the field.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, that the potential slack on some of those
things can really really happenin that time, that busy time.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, because we are so busy and it is so taxing when
you're starting and then youknow if, depending on the
setting you're working in aftergraduation, if we have
productivity requirements orjust even if that's not a part
of your job, like clients needhelp and clients need
appointments, and so it can behard to save some in the tank,
(01:45):
and some days it's even notpossible to save anything in
your tank after your work dayfor yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah, and I think there are a lot of
misconceptions that exist aroundcounselors seeking help and in
some ways they're legitimateconcerns.
I suppose we can maybe unpackthat a little bit, but in other
ways it's more just like, like Isaid, a misconception, right,
(02:12):
if a counselor's getting help byseeking their own counseling, a
lot of times people think well,you must not be good at your
job, you're not practicing likethe skills that you're telling
me as a client, or even othercounselors do this sometimes to
each other.
Right, like that.
It could be sort of like well,you should know better, kind of
(02:33):
thing.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Oh yeah, I even have heard that from like
well-meaning or well-intentioned, like friends and family, where
it's like, well, you know thethings, why aren't you just
doing them?
And I think that really doesspeak to the value of our work,
that even though, yes, I have alot of coping skills, one, I
don't know everything, and sothat's why collaboration is so
(02:55):
important, and also being ableto teach someone the skills is
very different from theapplication in your own set of
life circumstances.
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, we're very human right, and so I mean I
always am sharing that with myclients to understand, like the
humanity that we all have inthat if we all knew better and
did better, like this worldwould be much less problematic
in so many ways.
But it's because we are humanand sometimes we can't get those
(03:28):
ducks in a row to do betterbecause we're in a in a stuck
pattern due to being busy andmaybe having a lot of
responsibilities and and and andright, and so sometimes it
feels like there are barriers inthe way of us doing the things
(03:50):
that are meaningful, and sohaving someone to support us and
help us build insight intowhere there might be
opportunities for us to makechanges is really meaningful and
doesn't necessarily mean thatsomeone isn't capable of helping
someone else.
It's just that we also all aredeserving of having someone
support us in that way too, andso that's maybe one major
(04:12):
misconception.
I think another one is part ofit beyond like not being good or
not, like not knowing enough ordoing enough.
It's that maybe this person is,like too fragile.
If a counselor is seekingcounseling of their own, are
they too fragile to help someoneelse?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, I also think there's that like you have to
have everything put together inorder to help someone else, like
you can't have your own thingsyou're working on, and obviously
that brings its ownconsideration.
Like if you're going through ajourney with grief and you have
a new client who has it'sringing too many bells and it's
feeling too similar, maybe thatis a time where it would be more
(04:51):
ethical to refer out.
But that isn't always the case,especially if it's something
you've moved through yourselfright, if you have kind of
evolved through that process.
I think that gives you a lot ofmeaningful insight when you're
working with clients throughthat process.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I think that gives you a lot of meaningful insight
when you're working with clients, and what I'll say to that is I
think it speaks to what I wasmentioning is sometimes they're
valid concerns, right, and it'snot just a misconception, but
that's a spectrum, because therecould be something about
someone's life experience thatmight make them too fragile
where they need to ethicallytake time away so that they are
(05:26):
not harming clients orthemselves really, and, yes,
that's a possibility.
However, I think, in a similarvein, those counselors who are
seeking counseling to addresssomething that maybe feels heavy
or fragile to them in theirlife right now is what helps
(05:47):
them support their clientsbecause they're seeking the
support.
They're not transferring itonto these client conversations,
because they are strong enoughto get the help needed and
address those things in theirown services right.
Like that it's not.
It's not as likely to comethrough if they're also getting
(06:09):
their own support through havingtheir own counseling sessions
regularly.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, I think it's interesting you bring up
transference, because one of thethings that I was thinking
about while you were talking Imean I was listening, but was
that if you're not taking goodcare of yourself?
Was that if you're not takinggood care of yourself, or if
you're not getting your ownsupport and work is becoming
challenging, or we're justlosing our enthusiasm or our
spark, that can transfer ontohow we're engaging with clients,
(06:36):
like unintentionally.
But if you start to resentgoing to work or or the clients
you're working with, that isgoing to do harm not only to
your practice but to the peoplewho are trying to help.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, yeah, I think there's, you know, definitely
other misconceptions, like weknow everything and so we know
all the things, we learned allthe things in school and so how
could we actually benefit fromit?
I think you already touched onlike how that happens.
Is that just because we knowsomething doesn't mean we don't
(07:10):
need support to access like someof that motivation to change or
seeing the opportunity forgrowth differently when we're
talking about it with anotherprofessional?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Or that they might have had differences in their
training and maybe they have askill we aren't as well versed
in.
Like you have an EMDRcertification and that's not
something I'm familiar with, butI don't have a certification in
it.
But I do like sand tray.
You know therapy and that's notsomething I mean you don't need
a certification per se, but you, that's not something that
(07:46):
you're like whipping outvirtually for clients to do.
There are virtual ones, butit's not the same.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And it's, you know, that speaks to the diversity of
our subculture as professionalcounselors right, that there are
so many opportunities to learnsomething different, and I find
that, actually, that that'ssomething that could be really
meaningful because it not onlyhelps you understand yourself as
(08:14):
an individual who's maybeexperiencing life in challenging
ways, or even if you're justdoing it more preventatively we
all have challenges but also ithelps us understand our clients
differently when we have thoseother perspectives where it's
like, oh, you might have an ahamoment where I will say, being
in my own counseling regularlyand ongoing, I have so much
(08:38):
perspective sometimes where I'mlike this helps me
professionally, it helps meconsider, you know, this helps
me professionally.
It helps me consider, you knowmy myself as a human and how
that you know operates.
But then, oh, I wonder if thiscould be something similar for
that client who's experiencing,you know, other relationship
dynamics that aren't completelyon a like mind.
Yeah Right, totally.
(09:00):
One of the other things I thinka lot of counselors may fear
and I don't know if it's like amaybe it's a fear and a
misconception is that if acounselor discloses that they
have their helper counselor,that their clients might lose
confidence in them in them.
(09:24):
I don't know.
I guess like I'd have to pull myclients to really understand,
but I try not to shy away fromit because I think it's
important to normalize it andthat, if you know you think
everyone's got it all togetherlike that, doesn't mean you
still don't deserve those things.
(09:44):
So if you see me as someone whois intelligent and can be
really helpful and provide youwith the support and care that
helps you, why wouldn't you alsobe able to see yourself that
way?
Yeah Right, like that, it'smodeling like that.
This is helpful for me.
I I know that it's a lot for meto carry by myself and I prefer
(10:09):
to have that space to processwhatever's going on for me and
learn from it and help keep memotivated to work on what I need
to address, accept what I needto accept, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, I also have my own provider who I see provider,
such like a fancy word.
Her name's Maya, she's the bestand I one of the things I mean.
I love my own journey incounseling and I find so much
value in it and I have seen somuch, you know, change in just
how I move the world.
But one of the other things Ireally value is like I kind of
(10:45):
like lift things she does withme sometimes and like she, she's
a horse girl, she has threehorses and sometimes we do
equine therapy and she has thisshe it's so cute.
I love Bandit is my best friend.
That's the horse that you dothe main therapy with.
But anyway, she uses a lot oflike horse metaphors with me
(11:10):
which are not authentic to myexperience.
But she talks about like whenyou're leaning in and when
you're in the flow and whenyou're like confident in
yourself, you're sitting in yourseat because when you ride a
horse, if you're not moving withthe horse and you're not
willing to wiggle and bend,you're going to fall off.
And I think that's such apowerful metaphor and like a
phrase that I really love to sayand like I even use it.
Just this week I had a clientcome in and they're having a
really great week, lots ofchanges happening.
I decided, wow, you're reallysitting in your seat and we got
(11:32):
to talk through that metaphorand I always give her credit
because like that's notauthentic to my experience,
right, and so I think even likeher perspective is helping me,
but it's also helping my clientstoo.
So I think it's it's nice tohave that to pull from in my
counseling toolbox.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And and it's perspective right.
Like I think sometimes when mycounselor shout out, casey, if
you're listening, says things,it's, it's something that I'm
like, oh yeah, that makes sense.
Like I and maybe if I had likesat with it long enough, I would
have come to this conclusion onmy own.
(12:15):
But giving feedback from whatI'm sharing and when I'm
overwhelmed and it's like, oh, Igot this going on, I got this
family issue and thisrelationship issue, and like I'm
stressed with some of my otherresponsibilities, that it
becomes like, oh, there's somuch going on that you're
helping me like sift through itand notice, like where I might
(12:37):
be concerned, that about abehavior I'll be transparent.
Like we were talking aboutavoidance in my most recent
session and I was frustratedwith some avoidance from other
people, while also concernedthat I was like maybe engaging
in similar patterns, and she wasable to just say like well,
(12:59):
let's like not put moraljudgment on avoidance for a
second and understand that.
Like sometimes avoidance happensfor reasons and let's think
about the reasons behind theavoidance.
That doesn't mean like you haveto like the other person's
avoidance, but what like?
What's behind your avoidantbehavior then?
(13:20):
Like what's behind you avoidingright now and is it purposeful
or not?
Like, like, let's.
And I'm like, oh, like, justhelp me take a step back, right
and this.
This is not for me to say likethat I'm going to endorse
everyone.
Just avoid stuff like, let's beclear.
But I think it was helpful forme to reframe Right, and I think
(13:40):
because I was so overwhelmed Icouldn't see the forest through
the trees, and so it's just like, getting that perspective is
useful.
I don't think that that makesme maybe like a bad counselor,
but that that's sort of like themisconception or the concerns a
lot of times or that clientswould would see that.
(14:01):
But I'm like, oh, I could usethat, right, I can take that
back to session.
But that clients most of theclients that I've like shared
that with are usually prettyexcited.
Yeah, like, the oh like, and soI refer to my I'm like your
grand therapist because socialmedia has that.
(14:22):
So I learned it from TikTok.
So I'm not like you know, notmy copyright, but that you know
this is your grand therapist,that that's something that I
learned and I wonder if thatwould be useful, given what
you've shared with me.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, no, that's, that's going in the pocket.
I think one of the things, like, as we were talking about this
episode and this is one we'vekind of wanted to do since we
started talking about doing likedifferent kinds of content for
the podcast is, I feel sofortunate to have such a
wonderful therapist that I workwith, and I know that you find a
lot of value in yours as well,and so we are.
(14:57):
I would love for us to talk alittle bit about, like, what you
find important in finding yourown counselor, when, when you
know, we do have our ownqualifications and expertise and
I think that this is part ofthe like.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
This is maybe one of the harder parts to navigate,
because, with finding acounselor, as a counselor, it's
meaningful to work with someonewho maybe has already
experienced someone like wholike not someone, but maybe
(15:30):
several someone's like, who haveworked with other clinicians,
who get what that's like.
Also, if I'm putting it bluntlylike who can sometimes see
through things that you know,like they cut the crap a bit
easier because they see thatmaybe we're avoiding a topic and
we, you know, as counselors,we're still human, but maybe
(15:53):
you're like, yep, that's what Ineeded.
Like I needed you to see thatand like thank you for for
cutting through some of that,but that if they've worked with
other clinicians, they have anunderstanding of, like what our
lived experience is like, notonly from their own experience,
right, but that they've alsoseen patterns when they've
worked with people from thispopulation.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Oh yeah, they're diversifying the portfolio Right
For sure, I know also just likehaving someone who is a little
more tenured, like I had when Iwas in my practicum.
I had someone who was also inpracticum and that was super
intimidating as like just a veryyoung therapist and so like we
(16:35):
had a great time and like thingswent really well.
But I did every time beforethat appointment I got a little
nervous, and so having someonewith experience who just is
going to call you out is ifthat's your preferred way to
engage or call you in yes orright, just like notice and
observe and reflect that back.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
But yeah, it's important and meaningful and
much needed.
I and maybe that's me speakingfrom my own like lens of things
of it.
It's nice to just be seen andnot have to sort of I don't know
, I don't know, wait to funneldown right, like that we funnel
(17:21):
down more quickly.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I don't know if that's that might be a personal
preference for some, I will sayI think one of the things that
can be a little challenging justas someone who has had other
counselors on their caseload andas someone who's in counseling
is like work is still somethingwe do and work is something that
we talk about in therapy andobviously within our ethical,
(17:43):
legal bounds, we want to keepthat in mind, but it can be hard
to find the line between like Ineed to talk to you about work
or there's like I'm not doing mynotes or like this client's
really I'm noticing some, sometransference or whatever it is
and having someone who's able tokeep you in the role of client
(18:04):
and not meeting with you as ifyou're having like consultation
or supervision or something,Because that there's a place for
that Right, but that's not yourpersonal therapy.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Mm, hmm, mm, hmm.
Yes, like I think that that'sreally important and I guess I'm
grateful because everycounselor I've ever worked with
has done a great job at that,even one of the counselors that
I saw years ago that I wasn'tlike particularly fond of right,
(18:38):
like I terminated because itwas just it didn't feel like a
good fit for other reasons, butlike never blurred that in ways
that felt like wait, what areyou talking about here?
Right?
Yeah, I think that that's someaningful.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah, and I think that's also like work for us to
do right, as like we also haveto show up with our client hat
on and try our best to kind ofstay in our lane as well.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, maybe I'm just good at that.
I'm like I got too many otherthings I need I want to talk
about like let's, let's dig in.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I know that my therapist if I'm talking too
much about work, she'll alwaysask me, like what's going on?
Like is there something else?
Because I love my job and Ilove talking about it, even when
it is frustrating or hard, andso sometimes I like just to be
transparent.
I can default to talking aboutthat if something else is
challenging or stressful.
And so she we've been workingtogether for a while and and so
(19:35):
she also knows to be like hey,is there something else?
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah, yeah, I feel like what's different for me in
in positive ways is that I thinkI talk a lot about being a
counselor and how that maybeinteracts with my external world
not professionally, yeah, wherethere are and and maybe I'm
(20:04):
disclosing stuff that will berelatable for some but maybe not
for everyone.
Is that like sometimes you'regetting people sharing in your
life, like things that feelheavy and that can be really
hard.
Sometimes it might look morelike people avoid you for that
(20:27):
same reason yeah, or you getlike don't, don't therapize me,
I get that sometimes or theywant to consult on things that
like can challenge your ethicalresponsibilities, which I feel
like also as a counseloreducator that came in to play
sometimes, where you know peoplemight stay after class and ask
(20:48):
for advice about oh I have afriend, you know, whatever and
so it's talking about some ofthose things.
I think that intersection thatwe have as counselors it can,
it's, I consider it part of myidentity.
I don't always know when I'masking a friend like how did
that make you feel, Like I'm notconsciously always making that
(21:25):
decision, to like say I'm goingto ask this counselor question
now, but that I am coming from aplace of curiosity and support.
But that in processing theparts of like how my counseling
identity intersects with mypersonal life, is, I think, what
shows up more in my sessionsthan maybe like a client
consultation, because I do tryto very be intentional about it
(21:47):
and like if I need consultationfor a client like, I'm likely to
connect with a colleague yeah,and I think that's also like we
need to make sure we're buildingthose support systems and
networks for ourselves so thatwe can also be intentional about
the space we're leaving justfor us, right?
Yes.
So I think, as we've navigatedinto this new content format,
(22:12):
we've started playing some gamesand, to be fair with everyone,
like we don't see counselorsgetting their own counseling
services as a game, but we thinkit is fun to help put some you
know, fun, playful spins on someof the things that we probably
encounter in these types ofspaces as counselors seeking
counseling.
And so we're going to play ourgame unpack or put it back,
(22:37):
where we decide what we'd liketo unpack and keep or what we
maybe like to get rid of and putback.
So first, on this, it might besomething that just gets said in
a lot of sessions forcounselors in counseling.
Well, you probably already knowthis Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I feel like it's a cop out to say like I have the
box half open, because I thinkthey're well intentioned when
they say it and I know that,like I've said that once or
twice in my tenure, short as itmay be, but I think it's like
them trying to recognize that,like you have an expertise, and
maybe saying it some a differentway.
(23:20):
Right, and saying like youmight have already come across
this, or like this is this, thismight be in your tool belt,
instead of like probably, Ithink is setting a different
expectation and it can be alittle kinder, or like not that
they're trying to be unkind,right, but I think it's them
trying to acknowledge you havean expertise, but at the same
time, it can feel I, it can feelon the client end a little bit
(23:41):
like oh, pop quiz, and so, yeah,I think I can understand the
message behind it.
But maybe we need to reconsiderthe default phrase.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
So, interestingly enough, I feel like I say it
more than probably my counselorsdoes.
At least I'd have to really sitand kind of rack my archives to
consider if my past counselorshave ever said something like
that.
But currently I feel likesometimes it's more like I know,
you know this, yeah, but maybeI don't hear it so much and I
(24:16):
think that might just be mycounselor's personality.
But I would say, yes, languagematters.
In good faith, I'm fine withthem.
You know unpack, yeah, in goodfaith, I'm fine with them.
You know, unpack, yeah.
So next unpack.
Put it back.
When your counselor laughs withyou about counseling in jokes
or memes, etc.
(24:36):
Unpack immediately.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Love it.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Love it, love to laugh.
Humor is relationship building.
It can also be an interventionin and of itself.
In and of itself, I can't speak.
I also love laughing with myclients, so like why would I
want to laugh with my counselor?
Like I think it's such ahelpful tool, and like there's
(24:59):
actually research I don't, Iknow it exists, I couldn't tell
you the author off the top of myhead, see if I can find it but
that when you make somethingfunny, it is actually like, in
terms of pedagogy, a goodteaching, yeah, tool, because
people remember things more whenit's connected to something
(25:20):
that they laughed about.
And so I I take that likeobviously I know like it's not
our goal alone to be teachers,as counselors, but that is like
sort of a hat we wear often.
And so I think humor, amen,let's do it.
Unpack all day.
What about bringing their ownvulnerability to the session?
(25:42):
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I think unpack, I think it always makes me feel
like held, almost when my, whenmy people are telling me
something that's like a peekinto their life and I I always
feel like really valued as a, asa client, when, when a
counselor shares something withme.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Right, I agree, I think self-disclosure what we
learn in grad school is maybe abit too reductive.
Yeah, and I really think it'sgood modeling for clients, even
when the client is a counselor.
Yeah, I agree, a hundredpercent.
(26:25):
Okay, what about when theycheck on you, when you're
sliding out of client mode, likeor check, check you like?
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Unpack or put it back .
Love Unpack.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I've gotten better at it, as I've gotten more
comfortable in my like counseloridentity and as my person Tori
identity.
I it doesn't happen as much,but when it does happen I
appreciate a gentle but firmcheck.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I support it.
Unpack Love.
How about if they ask you foradvice on other clients?
I hope that we post video ofthis.
If you could have just seenTori's face post video of this.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
If you could have just seen Tori's face.
Put it back, put it all the wayback.
No, thank you.
I just I think, especially ifyou are a client and, like you
know, all client counselorrelationships are different and
they have their own nuances andthings but, like, if you're
there to be vulnerable and youyou need to like talk about
something that's really hard,and they're like oh, by the way,
what do you think about thissituation that can take you out
(27:34):
of?
Like you've I don't know aboutyou, but like I'm like okay,
I've got to get ready, it's timeto talk about my stuff, and I
feel like it's just kind of likewhat?
Okay, yeah, let me try to thinkabout what I would think.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, it's like oppositional compared to like
checking you.
If you're coming out of clientmode because it's like a request
to put you into counselor mode,I say put it back.
However, I will add a caveatthat if it's not during my paid
time, then you and you shoot mean email like as a console.
I know ethically like the dualrelationship situation could
(28:07):
come in, but as a console.
I know ethically like the dualrelationship situation could
come in.
But if I can share a resourceor something like I don't feel
like that.
That is like maybe to me, likeyeah, we could go through an
ethical decision-making model ina different episode about how
that would.
I would want not want it to beregular, but like if they knew
that I had a specific expertiseand wanted to be able to share
(28:30):
something.
I don't think I would be thatbothered by it because we're
professionals in the sameprofession.
Yeah, but it would not beduring my session.
Like that would be.
Like it could absolutely I'mprivate, pay like I need to.
Every dollar I'm private, payLike I need to.
Every dollar I'm spending comefrom like me getting what I need
(28:52):
out of session.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Or like, I think also if they know you have a passion
for something and they want toshoot a referral your way as
long as, like you know, we arechecking the like ethical
situations, I think that's alsodifferent than like what do you
think about this client I have,I think that's also different
than like what do you thinkabout this client I have?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
And when I was first like looking at this question, I
also was considering like Ithink maybe I didn't mistake it,
but it made me think of like mymom used to do this and I hate
it.
But I think that that might besomething I should also talk
about in therapy.
But I would get upset if I wasstruggling with something and
(29:33):
like venting about it to my mom.
She would say what would youtell a client that was going
through that or how would youlike?
And I'm like I don't want tothink about being a counselor
right now, I just want to beupset.
Meh, you know, and I don't knowif I would enjoy if my
counselor asked me that either.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, no, that's a really good point, but I know
that I would be morecompassionate.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I'm sure that, like I would probably be a much more
emotionally intelligent likeresponse to the situation if I
used that lens.
Like I totally get it, but it'sjust that sometimes you're like
.
I'm not ready to hear that yeah, no, so it might be useful and
in some ways that could be anunpack but repurposed a little.
(30:19):
What about clients who shareanecdotes from like their own
experience, like whether as acounselor or just another human
out in the world?
I?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
mean, I think we covered this a little bit, but
like, definitely yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Loves it.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, Well, that's.
That wraps up the game.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, I think, if anything, we want to leave
everyone listening with aquestion, which is if you, as a
counselor, were your own client,not to do the question none of
us like from our moms, whatwould you want your therapist to
be like?
And sit with that, because itmight point you towards the
helping professional who's theright fit for you.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
And that wraps up this episode of let's Unpack
that Make sure you're subscribedso you never miss an update.
If you have questions, feedbackor a topic you'd like us to
unpack, be sure to drop us aline.
You can send us a text from thelink in our show notes or
connect with us on our socials.
Thanks for joining us for let'sUnpack that brought to you by
Ohio Counseling Conversationsand the Ohio Counseling
(31:19):
Association.
If it sparked something for you, share it with a colleague or
drop us a line.
We'd love to keep theconversation going.
Thanks for listening and untilnext time, we encourage you to
keep unpacking the big stuff,one conversation at a time.
Welcome to let's Unpack that a short-form segment
from Ohio CounselingConversations, where we dig into
the topics, tools and truthsthat shape our work as
counselors.
Whether it's a trending issue,a clinical insight or something
we've all been thinking about,we're here to process it
together.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome back to let's Unpack that.
I'm Victoria Frazier and I'mMarissa Cargill, and today we
are exploring some commonmisconceptions about counselors
seeking their own care.
It's so important as people ina helping and healing profession
that we make sure we're takingcare of ourselves Amen.
But it does not always happento the degree that it should.
(00:49):
Right, and I think I alwaysthink about, like my first day
in my counseling program when wewere all sitting in like the
ballroom and they were preachinglike work-life balance and
making sure you're taking careof yourself, and I feel like
that fades throughout your gradprogram, and then I think it
fades even more as you areentering the field.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, that the potential slack on some of those
things can really really happenin that time, that busy time.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, because we are so busy and it is so taxing when
you're starting and then youknow if, depending on the
setting you're working in aftergraduation, if we have
productivity requirements orjust even if that's not a part
of your job, like clients needhelp and clients need
appointments, and so it can behard to save some in the tank,
(01:45):
and some days it's even notpossible to save anything in
your tank after your work dayfor yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah, and I think there are a lot of
misconceptions that exist aroundcounselors seeking help and in
some ways they're legitimateconcerns.
I suppose we can maybe unpackthat a little bit, but in other
ways it's more just like, like Isaid, a misconception, right,
(02:12):
if a counselor's getting help byseeking their own counseling, a
lot of times people think well,you must not be good at your
job, you're not practicing likethe skills that you're telling
me as a client, or even othercounselors do this sometimes to
each other.
Right, like that.
It could be sort of like well,you should know better, kind of
(02:33):
thing.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Oh yeah, I even have heard that from like
well-meaning or well-intentioned, like friends and family, where
it's like, well, you know thethings, why aren't you just
doing them?
And I think that really doesspeak to the value of our work,
that even though, yes, I have alot of coping skills, one, I
don't know everything, and sothat's why collaboration is so
(02:55):
important, and also being ableto teach someone the skills is
very different from theapplication in your own set of
life circumstances.
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, we're very human right, and so I mean I
always am sharing that with myclients to understand, like the
humanity that we all have inthat if we all knew better and
did better, like this worldwould be much less problematic
in so many ways.
But it's because we are humanand sometimes we can't get those
(03:28):
ducks in a row to do betterbecause we're in a in a stuck
pattern due to being busy andmaybe having a lot of
responsibilities and and and andright, and so sometimes it
feels like there are barriers inthe way of us doing the things
(03:50):
that are meaningful, and sohaving someone to support us and
help us build insight intowhere there might be
opportunities for us to makechanges is really meaningful and
doesn't necessarily mean thatsomeone isn't capable of helping
someone else.
It's just that we also all aredeserving of having someone
support us in that way too, andso that's maybe one major
(04:12):
misconception.
I think another one is part ofit beyond like not being good or
not, like not knowing enough ordoing enough.
It's that maybe this person is,like too fragile.
If a counselor is seekingcounseling of their own, are
they too fragile to help someoneelse?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, I also think there's that like you have to
have everything put together inorder to help someone else, like
you can't have your own thingsyou're working on, and obviously
that brings its ownconsideration.
Like if you're going through ajourney with grief and you have
a new client who has it'sringing too many bells and it's
feeling too similar, maybe thatis a time where it would be more
(04:51):
ethical to refer out.
But that isn't always the case,especially if it's something
you've moved through yourselfright, if you have kind of
evolved through that process.
I think that gives you a lot ofmeaningful insight when you're
working with clients throughthat process.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I think that gives you a lot of meaningful insight
when you're working with clients, and what I'll say to that is I
think it speaks to what I wasmentioning is sometimes they're
valid concerns, right, and it'snot just a misconception, but
that's a spectrum, because therecould be something about
someone's life experience thatmight make them too fragile
where they need to ethicallytake time away so that they are
(05:26):
not harming clients orthemselves really, and, yes,
that's a possibility.
However, I think, in a similarvein, those counselors who are
seeking counseling to addresssomething that maybe feels heavy
or fragile to them in theirlife right now is what helps
(05:47):
them support their clientsbecause they're seeking the
support.
They're not transferring itonto these client conversations,
because they are strong enoughto get the help needed and
address those things in theirown services right.
Like that it's not.
It's not as likely to comethrough if they're also getting
(06:09):
their own support through havingtheir own counseling sessions
regularly.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, I think it's interesting you bring up
transference, because one of thethings that I was thinking
about while you were talking Imean I was listening, but was
that if you're not taking goodcare of yourself?
Was that if you're not takinggood care of yourself, or if
you're not getting your ownsupport and work is becoming
challenging, or we're justlosing our enthusiasm or our
spark, that can transfer ontohow we're engaging with clients,
(06:36):
like unintentionally.
But if you start to resentgoing to work or or the clients
you're working with, that isgoing to do harm not only to
your practice but to the peoplewho are trying to help.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, yeah, I think there's, you know, definitely
other misconceptions, like weknow everything and so we know
all the things, we learned allthe things in school and so how
could we actually benefit fromit?
I think you already touched onlike how that happens.
Is that just because we knowsomething doesn't mean we don't
(07:10):
need support to access like someof that motivation to change or
seeing the opportunity forgrowth differently when we're
talking about it with anotherprofessional?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Or that they might have had differences in their
training and maybe they have askill we aren't as well versed
in.
Like you have an EMDRcertification and that's not
something I'm familiar with, butI don't have a certification in
it.
But I do like sand tray.
You know therapy and that's notsomething I mean you don't need
a certification per se, but you, that's not something that
(07:46):
you're like whipping outvirtually for clients to do.
There are virtual ones, butit's not the same.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And it's, you know, that speaks to the diversity of
our subculture as professionalcounselors right, that there are
so many opportunities to learnsomething different, and I find
that, actually, that that'ssomething that could be really
meaningful because it not onlyhelps you understand yourself as
(08:14):
an individual who's maybeexperiencing life in challenging
ways, or even if you're justdoing it more preventatively we
all have challenges but also ithelps us understand our clients
differently when we have thoseother perspectives where it's
like, oh, you might have an ahamoment where I will say, being
in my own counseling regularlyand ongoing, I have so much
(08:38):
perspective sometimes where I'mlike this helps me
professionally, it helps meconsider, you know, this helps
me professionally.
It helps me consider, you knowmy myself as a human and how
that you know operates.
But then, oh, I wonder if thiscould be something similar for
that client who's experiencing,you know, other relationship
dynamics that aren't completelyon a like mind.
Yeah Right, totally.
(09:00):
One of the other things I thinka lot of counselors may fear
and I don't know if it's like amaybe it's a fear and a
misconception is that if acounselor discloses that they
have their helper counselor,that their clients might lose
confidence in them in them.
(09:24):
I don't know.
I guess like I'd have to pull myclients to really understand,
but I try not to shy away fromit because I think it's
important to normalize it andthat, if you know you think
everyone's got it all togetherlike that, doesn't mean you
still don't deserve those things.
(09:44):
So if you see me as someone whois intelligent and can be
really helpful and provide youwith the support and care that
helps you, why wouldn't you alsobe able to see yourself that
way?
Yeah Right, like that, it'smodeling like that.
This is helpful for me.
I I know that it's a lot for meto carry by myself and I prefer
(10:09):
to have that space to processwhatever's going on for me and
learn from it and help keep memotivated to work on what I need
to address, accept what I needto accept, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, I also have my own provider who I see provider,
such like a fancy word.
Her name's Maya, she's the bestand I one of the things I mean.
I love my own journey incounseling and I find so much
value in it and I have seen somuch, you know, change in just
how I move the world.
But one of the other things Ireally value is like I kind of
(10:45):
like lift things she does withme sometimes and like she, she's
a horse girl, she has threehorses and sometimes we do
equine therapy and she has thisshe it's so cute.
I love Bandit is my best friend.
That's the horse that you dothe main therapy with.
But anyway, she uses a lot oflike horse metaphors with me
(11:10):
which are not authentic to myexperience.
But she talks about like whenyou're leaning in and when
you're in the flow and whenyou're like confident in
yourself, you're sitting in yourseat because when you ride a
horse, if you're not moving withthe horse and you're not
willing to wiggle and bend,you're going to fall off.
And I think that's such apowerful metaphor and like a
phrase that I really love to sayand like I even use it.
Just this week I had a clientcome in and they're having a
really great week, lots ofchanges happening.
I decided, wow, you're reallysitting in your seat and we got
(11:32):
to talk through that metaphorand I always give her credit
because like that's notauthentic to my experience,
right, and so I think even likeher perspective is helping me,
but it's also helping my clientstoo.
So I think it's it's nice tohave that to pull from in my
counseling toolbox.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And and it's perspective right.
Like I think sometimes when mycounselor shout out, casey, if
you're listening, says things,it's, it's something that I'm
like, oh yeah, that makes sense.
Like I and maybe if I had likesat with it long enough, I would
have come to this conclusion onmy own.
(12:15):
But giving feedback from whatI'm sharing and when I'm
overwhelmed and it's like, oh, Igot this going on, I got this
family issue and thisrelationship issue, and like I'm
stressed with some of my otherresponsibilities, that it
becomes like, oh, there's somuch going on that you're
helping me like sift through itand notice, like where I might
(12:37):
be concerned, that about abehavior I'll be transparent.
Like we were talking aboutavoidance in my most recent
session and I was frustratedwith some avoidance from other
people, while also concernedthat I was like maybe engaging
in similar patterns, and she wasable to just say like well,
(12:59):
let's like not put moraljudgment on avoidance for a
second and understand that.
Like sometimes avoidance happensfor reasons and let's think
about the reasons behind theavoidance.
That doesn't mean like you haveto like the other person's
avoidance, but what like?
What's behind your avoidantbehavior then?
(13:20):
Like what's behind you avoidingright now and is it purposeful
or not?
Like, like, let's.
And I'm like, oh, like, justhelp me take a step back, right
and this.
This is not for me to say likethat I'm going to endorse
everyone.
Just avoid stuff like, let's beclear.
But I think it was helpful forme to reframe Right, and I think
(13:40):
because I was so overwhelmed Icouldn't see the forest through
the trees, and so it's just like, getting that perspective is
useful.
I don't think that that makesme maybe like a bad counselor,
but that that's sort of like themisconception or the concerns a
lot of times or that clientswould would see that.
(14:01):
But I'm like, oh, I could usethat, right, I can take that
back to session.
But that clients most of theclients that I've like shared
that with are usually prettyexcited.
Yeah, like, the oh like, and soI refer to my I'm like your
grand therapist because socialmedia has that.
(14:22):
So I learned it from TikTok.
So I'm not like you know, notmy copyright, but that you know
this is your grand therapist,that that's something that I
learned and I wonder if thatwould be useful, given what
you've shared with me.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, no, that's, that's going in the pocket.
I think one of the things, like, as we were talking about this
episode and this is one we'vekind of wanted to do since we
started talking about doing likedifferent kinds of content for
the podcast is, I feel sofortunate to have such a
wonderful therapist that I workwith, and I know that you find a
lot of value in yours as well,and so we are.
(14:57):
I would love for us to talk alittle bit about, like, what you
find important in finding yourown counselor, when, when you
know, we do have our ownqualifications and expertise and
I think that this is part ofthe like.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
This is maybe one of the harder parts to navigate,
because, with finding acounselor, as a counselor, it's
meaningful to work with someonewho maybe has already
experienced someone like wholike not someone, but maybe
(15:30):
several someone's like, who haveworked with other clinicians,
who get what that's like.
Also, if I'm putting it bluntlylike who can sometimes see
through things that you know,like they cut the crap a bit
easier because they see thatmaybe we're avoiding a topic and
we, you know, as counselors,we're still human, but maybe
(15:53):
you're like, yep, that's what Ineeded.
Like I needed you to see thatand like thank you for for
cutting through some of that,but that if they've worked with
other clinicians, they have anunderstanding of, like what our
lived experience is like, notonly from their own experience,
right, but that they've alsoseen patterns when they've
worked with people from thispopulation.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Oh yeah, they're diversifying the portfolio Right
For sure, I know also just likehaving someone who is a little
more tenured, like I had when Iwas in my practicum.
I had someone who was also inpracticum and that was super
intimidating as like just a veryyoung therapist and so like we
(16:35):
had a great time and like thingswent really well.
But I did every time beforethat appointment I got a little
nervous, and so having someonewith experience who just is
going to call you out is ifthat's your preferred way to
engage or call you in yes orright, just like notice and
observe and reflect that back.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
But yeah, it's important and meaningful and
much needed.
I and maybe that's me speakingfrom my own like lens of things
of it.
It's nice to just be seen andnot have to sort of I don't know
, I don't know, wait to funneldown right, like that we funnel
(17:21):
down more quickly.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I don't know if that's that might be a personal
preference for some, I will sayI think one of the things that
can be a little challenging justas someone who has had other
counselors on their caseload andas someone who's in counseling
is like work is still somethingwe do and work is something that
we talk about in therapy andobviously within our ethical,
(17:43):
legal bounds, we want to keepthat in mind, but it can be hard
to find the line between like Ineed to talk to you about work
or there's like I'm not doing mynotes or like this client's
really I'm noticing some, sometransference or whatever it is
and having someone who's able tokeep you in the role of client
(18:04):
and not meeting with you as ifyou're having like consultation
or supervision or something,Because that there's a place for
that Right, but that's not yourpersonal therapy.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Mm, hmm, mm, hmm.
Yes, like I think that that'sreally important and I guess I'm
grateful because everycounselor I've ever worked with
has done a great job at that,even one of the counselors that
I saw years ago that I wasn'tlike particularly fond of right,
(18:38):
like I terminated because itwas just it didn't feel like a
good fit for other reasons, butlike never blurred that in ways
that felt like wait, what areyou talking about here?
Right?
Yeah, I think that that's someaningful.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah, and I think that's also like work for us to
do right, as like we also haveto show up with our client hat
on and try our best to kind ofstay in our lane as well.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, maybe I'm just good at that.
I'm like I got too many otherthings I need I want to talk
about like let's, let's dig in.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I know that my therapist if I'm talking too
much about work, she'll alwaysask me, like what's going on?
Like is there something else?
Because I love my job and Ilove talking about it, even when
it is frustrating or hard, andso sometimes I like just to be
transparent.
I can default to talking aboutthat if something else is
challenging or stressful.
And so she we've been workingtogether for a while and and so
(19:35):
she also knows to be like hey,is there something else?
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah, yeah, I feel like what's different for me in
in positive ways is that I thinkI talk a lot about being a
counselor and how that maybeinteracts with my external world
not professionally, yeah, wherethere are and and maybe I'm
(20:04):
disclosing stuff that will berelatable for some but maybe not
for everyone.
Is that like sometimes you'regetting people sharing in your
life, like things that feelheavy and that can be really
hard.
Sometimes it might look morelike people avoid you for that
(20:27):
same reason yeah, or you getlike don't, don't therapize me,
I get that sometimes or theywant to consult on things that
like can challenge your ethicalresponsibilities, which I feel
like also as a counseloreducator that came in to play
sometimes, where you know peoplemight stay after class and ask
(20:48):
for advice about oh I have afriend, you know, whatever and
so it's talking about some ofthose things.
I think that intersection thatwe have as counselors it can,
it's, I consider it part of myidentity.
I don't always know when I'masking a friend like how did
that make you feel, Like I'm notconsciously always making that
(21:25):
decision, to like say I'm goingto ask this counselor question
now, but that I am coming from aplace of curiosity and support.
But that in processing theparts of like how my counseling
identity intersects with mypersonal life, is, I think, what
shows up more in my sessionsthan maybe like a client
consultation, because I do tryto very be intentional about it
(21:47):
and like if I need consultationfor a client like, I'm likely to
connect with a colleague yeah,and I think that's also like we
need to make sure we're buildingthose support systems and
networks for ourselves so thatwe can also be intentional about
the space we're leaving justfor us, right?
Yes.
So I think, as we've navigatedinto this new content format,
(22:12):
we've started playing some gamesand, to be fair with everyone,
like we don't see counselorsgetting their own counseling
services as a game, but we thinkit is fun to help put some you
know, fun, playful spins on someof the things that we probably
encounter in these types ofspaces as counselors seeking
counseling.
And so we're going to play ourgame unpack or put it back,
(22:37):
where we decide what we'd liketo unpack and keep or what we
maybe like to get rid of and putback.
So first, on this, it might besomething that just gets said in
a lot of sessions forcounselors in counseling.
Well, you probably already knowthis Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I feel like it's a cop out to say like I have the
box half open, because I thinkthey're well intentioned when
they say it and I know that,like I've said that once or
twice in my tenure, short as itmay be, but I think it's like
them trying to recognize that,like you have an expertise, and
maybe saying it some a differentway.
(23:20):
Right, and saying like youmight have already come across
this, or like this is this, thismight be in your tool belt,
instead of like probably, Ithink is setting a different
expectation and it can be alittle kinder, or like not that
they're trying to be unkind,right, but I think it's them
trying to acknowledge you havean expertise, but at the same
time, it can feel I, it can feelon the client end a little bit
(23:41):
like oh, pop quiz, and so, yeah,I think I can understand the
message behind it.
But maybe we need to reconsiderthe default phrase.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
So, interestingly enough, I feel like I say it
more than probably my counselorsdoes.
At least I'd have to really sitand kind of rack my archives to
consider if my past counselorshave ever said something like
that.
But currently I feel likesometimes it's more like I know,
you know this, yeah, but maybeI don't hear it so much and I
(24:16):
think that might just be mycounselor's personality.
But I would say, yes, languagematters.
In good faith, I'm fine withthem.
You know unpack, yeah, in goodfaith, I'm fine with them.
You know, unpack, yeah.
So next unpack.
Put it back.
When your counselor laughs withyou about counseling in jokes
or memes, etc.
(24:36):
Unpack immediately.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Love it.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Love it, love to laugh.
Humor is relationship building.
It can also be an interventionin and of itself.
In and of itself, I can't speak.
I also love laughing with myclients, so like why would I
want to laugh with my counselor?
Like I think it's such ahelpful tool, and like there's
(24:59):
actually research I don't, Iknow it exists, I couldn't tell
you the author off the top of myhead, see if I can find it but
that when you make somethingfunny, it is actually like, in
terms of pedagogy, a goodteaching, yeah, tool, because
people remember things more whenit's connected to something
(25:20):
that they laughed about.
And so I I take that likeobviously I know like it's not
our goal alone to be teachers,as counselors, but that is like
sort of a hat we wear often.
And so I think humor, amen,let's do it.
Unpack all day.
What about bringing their ownvulnerability to the session?
(25:42):
Unpack or put it back.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I think unpack, I think it always makes me feel
like held, almost when my, whenmy people are telling me
something that's like a peekinto their life and I I always
feel like really valued as a, asa client, when, when a
counselor shares something withme.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Right, I agree, I think self-disclosure what we
learn in grad school is maybe abit too reductive.
Yeah, and I really think it'sgood modeling for clients, even
when the client is a counselor.
Yeah, I agree, a hundredpercent.
(26:25):
Okay, what about when theycheck on you, when you're
sliding out of client mode, likeor check, check you like?
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Unpack or put it back .
Love Unpack.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I've gotten better at it, as I've gotten more
comfortable in my like counseloridentity and as my person Tori
identity.
I it doesn't happen as much,but when it does happen I
appreciate a gentle but firmcheck.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I support it.
Unpack Love.
How about if they ask you foradvice on other clients?
I hope that we post video ofthis.
If you could have just seenTori's face post video of this.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
If you could have just seen Tori's face.
Put it back, put it all the wayback.
No, thank you.
I just I think, especially ifyou are a client and, like you
know, all client counselorrelationships are different and
they have their own nuances andthings but, like, if you're
there to be vulnerable and youyou need to like talk about
something that's really hard,and they're like oh, by the way,
what do you think about thissituation that can take you out
(27:34):
of?
Like you've I don't know aboutyou, but like I'm like okay,
I've got to get ready, it's timeto talk about my stuff, and I
feel like it's just kind of likewhat?
Okay, yeah, let me try to thinkabout what I would think.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, it's like oppositional compared to like
checking you.
If you're coming out of clientmode because it's like a request
to put you into counselor mode,I say put it back.
However, I will add a caveatthat if it's not during my paid
time, then you and you shoot mean email like as a console.
I know ethically like the dualrelationship situation could
(28:07):
come in, but as a console.
I know ethically like the dualrelationship situation could
come in.
But if I can share a resourceor something like I don't feel
like that.
That is like maybe to me, likeyeah, we could go through an
ethical decision-making model ina different episode about how
that would.
I would want not want it to beregular, but like if they knew
that I had a specific expertiseand wanted to be able to share
(28:30):
something.
I don't think I would be thatbothered by it because we're
professionals in the sameprofession.
Yeah, but it would not beduring my session.
Like that would be.
Like it could absolutely I'mprivate, pay like I need to.
Every dollar I'm private, payLike I need to.
Every dollar I'm spending comefrom like me getting what I need
(28:52):
out of session.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Or like, I think also if they know you have a passion
for something and they want toshoot a referral your way as
long as, like you know, we arechecking the like ethical
situations, I think that's alsodifferent than like what do you
think about this client I have,I think that's also different
than like what do you thinkabout this client I have?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
And when I was first like looking at this question, I
also was considering like Ithink maybe I didn't mistake it,
but it made me think of like mymom used to do this and I hate
it.
But I think that that might besomething I should also talk
about in therapy.
But I would get upset if I wasstruggling with something and
(29:33):
like venting about it to my mom.
She would say what would youtell a client that was going
through that or how would youlike?
And I'm like I don't want tothink about being a counselor
right now, I just want to beupset.
Meh, you know, and I don't knowif I would enjoy if my
counselor asked me that either.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, no, that's a really good point, but I know
that I would be morecompassionate.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I'm sure that, like I would probably be a much more
emotionally intelligent likeresponse to the situation if I
used that lens.
Like I totally get it, but it'sjust that sometimes you're like
.
I'm not ready to hear that yeah, no, so it might be useful and
in some ways that could be anunpack but repurposed a little.
(30:19):
What about clients who shareanecdotes from like their own
experience, like whether as acounselor or just another human
out in the world?
I?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
mean, I think we covered this a little bit, but
like, definitely yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Loves it.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, Well, that's.
That wraps up the game.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, I think, if anything, we want to leave
everyone listening with aquestion, which is if you, as a
counselor, were your own client,not to do the question none of
us like from our moms, whatwould you want your therapist to
be like?
And sit with that, because itmight point you towards the
helping professional who's theright fit for you.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
And that wraps up this episode of let's Unpack
that Make sure you're subscribedso you never miss an update.
If you have questions, feedbackor a topic you'd like us to
unpack, be sure to drop us aline.
You can send us a text from thelink in our show notes or
connect with us on our socials.
Thanks for joining us for let'sUnpack that brought to you by
Ohio Counseling Conversationsand the Ohio Counseling
(31:19):
Association.
If it sparked something for you, share it with a colleague or
drop us a line.
We'd love to keep theconversation going.
Thanks for listening and untilnext time, we encourage you to
keep unpacking the big stuff,one conversation at a time.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.