(Rebroadcast) Ohio State Reformatory

Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:03):
Hello and welcome to Ohio folklore. I'm your host,
Melissa Davies. It's that timeof year again. When the days
grow shorter, the wind blowsharder, and we turn our
attention toward the more McCobbelements of our existence. For
ages all around the world, theapproach of All Hallows Eve has

(00:24):
been marked by a growingreverence for the dead. We turn
our attention to the spiritsamong us. We imagine what it
must be like to exist beyond theveil. We don costumes in hopes
of fooling these spirits, sothey might not see us and our
true vulnerabilities. We offertreats to appease them fruits

(00:45):
and sweets, all of our mostprized edibles, in hopes that we
might survive long enough tocelebrate All Saints Day come
November. With any luck, afterliving a good life, we might one
day become a saint ourselves andavoid having to roam the earth
as some ephemeral spirit, doomedto haunt the living for

(01:08):
centuries to come.
Our topic today is one I've beensaving and for good reason. For
those of you who love ghosttales you're in for a real
treat. This story is one thatdeserves special treatment. I'm
releasing this shortly beforethat all important holiday

(01:30):
Halloween. Some Ohio folktalesgrow so large and the public
consciousness that theirreputation precedes them. They
enter into not only our historybooks that into local tourist
attractions, into Hollywoodblockbusters, and into the
frightened hearts of countlessOhioans.

(01:54):
I'm talking about the Ohio StateReformatory in Mansfield.
Now normally, this is where Ibegan to set the story for you.
Those of you who've heardprevious episodes of Ohio
folklore are no doubt accustomedto the typical format. However,

(02:14):
what I have for you here is aspecial departure. I've had the
great fortune to connect withthree unique individuals, all of
whom offer a tantalizing view ofwhat this historic correctional
institution has come torepresent. Each of their
perspectives widen the scope onjust how this spirited location

(02:35):
once closed and slated fordemolition, now draws visitors
from around the world.
There's something intangiblethat entices us to this hallowed
ground.
Some think it's the stunningarchitecture. Others say it's
the ghostly whispers emanatingfrom behind mock cells. And yet,

(02:57):
Still others believe it's thehistory of the place. This grand
structure, built in the late19th century, once stood as a
testament to our moreprogressive values. In the
creation of the reformatory. Weas Ohioans proclaimed that the
most misguided among us couldyet be redeemed. That very theme

(03:19):
was echoed in the seminal film,The Shawshank Redemption, the
1994 movie that was filmedthere, and has forever been tied
to the place.
We'll be learning about thislarger than life Ohio legend
through the eyes of a tourguide, who's been employed at
The Ohio State Reformatory forfour years. We'll hear from a

(03:42):
ghost hunter who completed aninvestigation there last summer.
And lastly, we'll hear from avolunteer, a man who admits
being so drawn to the place thathe willingly gives of his free
time just to share the wondershe's found with others.
Come hear their stories.

(04:06):
So my name is Veronica Bagley. Istarted here actually, as a
volunteer I was working eventsand things like that. And I was
at the time working on a historydegree at the University of
Akron, so I needed to internsomewhere I figured this would
be a pretty cool place. I hadtalked to our archivist, her
name is Becky McKinnell. And sheneeded some help in our

(04:27):
archives. So I did an internshipwith her there. Mostly what I
did with her was processed ouroral history collection, which
is basically a collection ofinterviews with people that were
here at the prison while it wasoperating. So my former staff,
former inmates, people that hadyou know, Pastor, visitors,
employees, so I kind of helpedindex that collection, and then

(04:51):
interviewed a couple more peopleto add to it and then I ended up
reading my paper on the historyof the building. So I once I had
graduated theykind of talks me into staying on
as a tour guide. So here we aretoday. I'm here right now I'm
here usually, like once or twicea week. But yeah, I've been here
for a little over four yearsnow. Well, I would say that that
background qualifies you as akind of expert on the place. I

(05:14):
don't know if it's an expertexpert. But yes, I do certainly
have a lot of historic knowledgeof the building. Right. And it's
so fortunate that I've been ableto connect with you. And I can
see, I can kind of feel thepassion to that you have.
Yeah, it's a very cool building.
I do like my job. That's, that'sa blessing for sure.

(05:39):
So I would guess that you havecome across some stories in the
archives and things that arepretty compelling. But then
you've also had some interestingexperiences of your own while
you're there, yeah. For sure.
Yeah. I mean, as far as like,historic knowledge goes, so our
archives department, it'sinteresting, because this
building, when it closed, in1990, it you know, the plan was

(06:01):
actually to tear the buildingdown. So a lot of it was just
left as it was. Thankfully,Shawshank Redemption, came along
and asked if they could film amovie here, otherwise, I would
not be sitting in the buildingtalking to you today. I'm sure.
They left the building StanfordShawshank Redemption to film it.
And basically, while that washappening, a Preservation

(06:21):
Society formed. But what's veryinteresting is that when they
came in and took over thebuilding in 1995, I mean, it had
been sitting for five years, andunfortunately, people have
broken in and looted it andthings like that. But a lot of,
you know, a lot of the things inthe building that we now have in
our archives, as artifacts arethings that were just left here.
In fact, we still find thingslaying around all the time. So

(06:43):
artifacts wise, there's a lot ofreally interesting things in our
archives Department records, forthe most part are in Columbus,
because it still exists, thoseare in the government archives,
that Ohio History Connection.
But yeah, certainly goingthrough and being able to
catalog that was interesting.
But as far as my own experiencesgo, it was really neat to be
able to interview people thatwere here, because though it

(07:04):
didn't close until 1990. There'syou know, still quite a few
people around, but we're here toexperience it while it was open.
So that was definitely an eyeopening experience. You know, I
can study the building as muchas I want. But getting to talk
to somebody that was actuallyhere and lived is definitely a
really cool experience. Yeah,sort of a living history. Yeah,
exactly.

(07:27):
And I didn't realize that themovie played that central have a
role and keep the keeping itpreserved. Yeah, it's yeah, it
certainly did. Yeah, they camein and filmed in 93.
And so like I said, yeah, thestate of Ohio let's left the
building for them to film.
Unfortunately, when ShawshankRedemption was finished filming,
they did go ahead and tear downpretty much everything that we

(07:49):
had in our yard. Behind thebuilding we used to have over 20
outbuildings there wasfactories, school buildings and
hospitals. The mess hall wasback there. Unfortunately, that
did all get torn down to makeway for one of the new prisons
behind us the RichlandCorrectional Institution. So
that was unfortunately lost. Butthe Preservation Society was
able to step in and save therest of the building before it

(08:11):
was also demolished. Which is,which is great.
You know, it just seems a littlestrange, maybe, but it's kind of
a double meaning with theredemption, the whole theme of
the movie movie beingredemption, and you guys were
able to redeem. Yeah, exactly.
Building what was left there?

(08:32):
Well, let me ask, How long haveyou been a tour guide done? I
started giving tours shortlyafter I started interning, so I
would say probably about fouryears. Four years. Okay. And are
you an employee or a volunteer?
I am an employee now. Yes. Anymore memorable visitors or
experiences that you've had overthat time? Oh, wow. Um, we had a

(08:54):
lot of really interesting peoplecome through the building. I
mean, of course, we have all thewe have all the huge events. You
know, we had our big ShawshankRedemption 25th anniversary
event last year. So a lot of thecast and crew from the movie
were here. So it was really neatgetting to meet some of them. I
got to meet Frank Darabont, whodirected the film, which was
very, very cool.

(09:17):
We have a big music festivalevery year called incarceration,
we get to meet some of the, youknow, some of the artists that
come and play there are bandsthat come and play at that show.
So that's always fun.
I don't know there's been somany cool events over the years,
you get to meet lots of reallycool people. It does have quite
a reputation here within thestate but also, you know, at

(09:38):
large I was pulling visitorsfrom quite a distance. Yes, for
sure. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We getpeople from all over the world
that come see this. It's funny.
I mean, a lot of people comehere. What's really cool about
my job it was a lot of peoplecome here because of Shawshank
Redemption. And it's kind ofamazing how many people come in
and they a lot of people youknow, they know this is
Shawshank Prison so some peopledon't

(10:00):
don't even realize that it wasan active prison, you know, from
1896 until 1990. So it's verycool to be able to have people
come in and they're reallyexcited to see because of the
movie, and you get to give thema tour and show them all their
favorite scenes from the moviewhere they were filmed. But you
also get to teach them somethingabout the history of the
building and people walk awaywith, you know, all this
knowledge they didn't havebefore. It's a very, it's a very

(10:21):
cool job to have for sure.
So some people think that it wasjust a movie set. They don't
realize it was a functioningprison prior. Yeah. Yes, that
happens more often than youmight think for sure. Okay.
Are there any othermisconceptions that you commonly
hear? Oh,I mean, a lot of if we're very

(10:44):
fortunate to have been featuredon a lot of television shows,
and like you're interviewing mefor podcasts right now and
things like that. So we get alot of people that have seen us
on TV or heard about us here,they're
one of the things for sure, thatwe should have misconceptions
with is, you know, every singleghost hunting TV show that's

(11:05):
ever been here, Ghost Hunters,Ghost Adventures, pretty much
all of them have been here. Andyou know, we always tell people
like those are great, they'revery entertaining to watch. A
lot of times a lot of theinformation is accurate. But
sometimes the historicinformation is not all there.
Because you know, if you've everseen Ghost Adventures, like
they'll exaggerate things forTV, of course, because it makes
for good television, but you getpeople coming here a lot.

(11:26):
They've heard this ad or theother on, you know, on Ghost
Adventures or ghost hunters.
And, you know, sometimes,sometimes historic information
is not all they're not entirelyaccurate. i One of them was, I
think it was Ghost Adventureswhen they were here. They were
investigating in our basement,which is underneath our wardens,
old living space, the entirefront half of the building

(11:47):
actually used to be a livingspace for our administrative
staff. And they said they werein our morgue. So people come in
constantly, and you know,they're like, where's the more
can we see it? Like, we don'tactually have a more, you know,
like that. Like, they were justin the basement. It's not
actually not what that was. Sothings like that happens pretty
often. I think. Yeah. And youcome to think of it a mortgage,

(12:10):
what you find in a hospitalmatter. Right, exactly. I mean,
some prisons certainly did havethem. But yeah, we did. And if
someone you know, past year theywere usually taken to the
hospital in Mansfield, you know.
So would you say generally, doesit feel like a lot of the
paranormal claims maybe are moreoverhyped? Or do you have any

(12:32):
personal? I wouldn't say thatthey're overhyped. I would say
that they're certainly most ofour if you ask most of our staff
here, almost everybody will tellyou that they've had something
happened in this building thatthey can't explain whether it's
paranormal whether, you know,whatever.
Most people will tell you, theythey've had they've had
something happen. And so I don'tdoubt that there's certainly

(12:54):
some kind of some kind ofenergy, something going on here.
People come for ghost haunts allthe time we do overnight ghost
talks, we do ghost walks, whichare guided tours at night. A lot
of times people will experiencethings, then I've personally
experienced things that Icertainly can't explain. So I
wouldn't say that the paranormalstories are overhyped. You have
to be careful when you'rewatching like the TV shows,
because sometimes they willexaggerate things. Sure. And

(13:18):
what kinds of personalexperiences have you had? Oh,
wow, I've had I've had quite afew things happen in my in my
time working here. I'm a littlebit skeptical of paranormal
stuff not gonna lie. It's notI'm not skeptical in the sense
that I don't believe it exists.
I'd say I'm more skeptical inthe sense that not everything is
a ghost, right. So you know,it's an old building, it makes
weird noise. Sometimes you know,it creeks. There's animals that

(13:40):
live in here, things like that.
It gets cold in here in thewinter. It's not because there's
a ghost, it's because it's cold,you know, things like that. So
yeah, skeptical in that sense.
But I've certainly had someinteresting things happen. I
remember. Oh, man, I don't knowI've had an I've had quite a few
stories, probably one of thecraziest thing.

(14:02):
This happened during the dayactually, I was working during
the day I was giving tours. Itwas in December, it would have
been a few years ago. Now.
December, we're generally notsuper busy during the day
because it gets really cold inhere. And I had one tour group
at noon. And it was a group offour people that signed up for
my tour, they were all together.

(14:25):
So over the history of meats,how they would tour which is
basically exactly what it soundslike an overview of the history
of the building with some, youknow, Hollywood facts. There's
been several movies filmed here.
And so I always asked my tourgroups when I start what they're
interested in hearing aboutinevitably, you always have one
or two people on your daytimetours that want to hear ghost
stories. And that's not whatever been here for so we usually
shy away from that in thedaytime. So there's only I

(14:46):
always say, you know, if youhave questions about that, feel
free to ask me after this. We'remore than happy to answer your
question.
Well, this tour happened to haveonly four people on in all of
them were very interested inparanormal things. So it's like
alright, well, we'll walk aroundand
You know, I'll tell you a coupleghost stories on the store
today. And so we get throughmost of the building, I've had
enough experiences to tell themstories and a lot of areas. But

(15:09):
we got to solitary confinement.
And that's, again, one of thoseplaces, everybody's like, Oh,
that's the most haunted place inthe whole building. Most of our
staff will tell you probably theentire building is equally
haunted. There's no more there'snot one place. That's more than
the next. But we got there. AndI told this tour group is like,
you know, I've actually neverhad anything happen in here
before. And they kind of lookedat me in shock. This one, it

(15:31):
really is like the mosthonestly, the whole building has
never really happened here. AndI've learned not to say things
like that anymore. Because thesame day, I had one of the
craziest things I've ever hadhappen. I got done with that
tour, finished closing up thebuilding. Basically, at the end
of the day, we go through and wehave to turn the lights off and
lock everything back up. Makesure there's nobody hiding in

(15:52):
here, right. And so I got donewith that tour, it probably 130
we close down the building atfive. So I was walking the tour
route, hadn't seen anybody inthe building. Like I said, it
was a very slow day. But I'mgetting through the tour route
and kind of excited, I'm likesweet, I'm going to go home
early today, you know, nobody inhere. And I get all the way
through the building in solitaryconfinement is toward the end of

(16:13):
our tour route. And so I go inthere to hit the lights. And
it's kind of hard to picturethis without being here. But
solitary confinement, when youwalk in, it's in a separate wing
off the building. And there aretwo floors, first and a second
floor. And right when you walkin, there's a staircase. Behind
that staircase, there'ssatellite switches, there's a
whole bunch of them, you hit allof those, you will get all the

(16:35):
way to solitary confinement onboth floors first and second.
But only in the front half ofit, you have to walk halfway
down the cellblock and getanother one in the back.
If you were smart, you'dprobably get the one in the back
first, you don't walk up thefront in the dark. I didn't do
that.
In the front.

(16:55):
walk halfway back on the firstfloor, get all the first floor
lights, everything's good. Oneupstairs, got the one halfway
back on the second floor. And asI turned around to walk back up
to the front of solitary to goback downstairs to get out.
Shortly after I hit that lightswitch and turn around. I
started hearing running comingfrom the back of solitaire and
you find it and it was I mean,it was like heavy running in

(17:18):
some way. Someone who had to bereboots or something. It was so
loud. I didn't think paranormalI thought it was a person
because when we hit the lightsat the end of the day, we always
yell you know, like, hey, ifanybody's still up there
buildings closing, right. And Ihit the lights and hear this
noise. So I turned around andlook thinking there was somebody
up there that was hiding becausesometimes you know, that
happens, you have to licensesomeone thinks they're going to

(17:39):
try to spend the night and turnthe lights off on the main freak
out and they start running.
That was not what was happeningwas when I turned around and
looked there was nothing there.
But I'm still hearing the noise.
So I keep walking. The only wayout is to go down the stairs.
And I decided I didn't want totry to go down them because
whatever this is get myskeptical mind just listening to
I don't know, maybe there's ananimal in here and I can't see

(18:00):
it. So I walked past thestaircase and just kind of
ducked up against the wall. Andyou know, when somebody comes
running past you and you getthat like that, like whoosh like
that like breeze. Yeah, it waslike right by the side of my
face. And so I sit back up, Iwalked all the way back around
to turn the lights back on, it'sgot to be something else here.

(18:23):
There was nothing.
So I finished closing thebuilding didn't see anybody was
kind of freaked out, but kind ofexcited because I'm like sweet,
I got a solitary story now andit's a really good one.
But I checked the decimal we hadthe cages of curiosity, when's
the last time we fold a tickettoday. And they're like, I don't
know, maybe like three o'clock.
And they had to be at least five530 When I walked through

(18:44):
solitary, so there wasn'tanybody in here. So that was
certainly crazy. And then it gotweirder, because a couple for
like a month later, I was givinga tour. And this was a night
time for that ghost tour. And Ibrought my tour group in there
and I was telling them thestory. And while I was talking
somebody on my tour, who wasstanding across from me,
interrupted me. He goes, Hey,Veronica, I don't want to freak

(19:05):
you out. But I just feltsomething pick up your hair and
put it back down and I getlifted up my hair.
She's like, No, you didn't.
Because I didn't feel it. I waslike, No, you didn't know mess
with me. You're not funny, and Ithought he was kidding. But at
least four other people on thetour. Were like no, we saw it
too. I was like, Oh, good.
Apparently have a friend in herenow. Okay. My name is Veronica.

(19:26):
Don't touch my hair. I'm gonnabe okay. Certainly, yeah, that's
that's got to be one of theweirder things for sure. to
anything I've ever had happen. Iagain, sometimes, you know,
people make it out to be like,Oh, it's like dark, whatever. I
don't know me personally, I'venever had anything happen like
that. A lot of times it's moreplayful. But if you if you think
about it, the inmates have yearfor most of the time we were

(19:48):
operating. You know, they werefirst time nonviolent offenders.
We opened up at the reformatory,which means you know, this place
is designed to reform people tohelp people more than it is to
punish them. You know, they hadto go to school they go to work.
It goes to the yard. So for themost part, these are like young
again, first time, usually nonviolent offender. So if anything
if that's if that's the kind ofenergy or spirits we have here,

(20:10):
they're probably just curious.
Yeah. That's a good point.
Do you have a sense about howmany people actually died there
at the reformatory? That's agood question.
We don't know. So the records,as far as that goes, are pretty,
pretty hard to come by. Andthey're not nonspecific. So we

(20:32):
don't have an exact number. Ifyou someone could probably count
in Columbus at the archives,Ohio History, connections
archives, they have an index ofinmates, and there's an in and
out date on that index. And soif you got out on parole, it'll
say parole, and there's a date.
If you got out because yoursentence was over, it says
expired, and there was a date.
And if you died, it says diedand there was the date,

(20:55):
someone could probably gothrough encounter, and it was
very time consuming. Andunfortunately, those records are
not entirely complete, there'spieces missing, what we do know
is that there is a cemeterybehind us, it is still in use by
the state of Ohio, the newprisons behind us still use it,
so it's not publicly accessible.
But when we closed in 1990, theywere a little over 200 burials

(21:16):
back there. So we know at leastthem any, we don't, we don't
have the records, we don't knowwho the people are, a lot of the
headstones don't have names onthem, most of them are just a
number. So we don't know. Butthe only reason you would be
buried in that cemetery isunfortunately, if you passed
away here, and nobody claimsyou. So usually what would

(21:37):
happen if someone passed, theywould try to contact family,
friends, whoever to claim thebody, essentially, if nobody
did, you would be buried there.
So we know at least a littleover 200.
But there were certainly therewere certainly more than that. I
mean, just from my experiencegoing through the index in

(21:58):
Columbus, when I was doingresearch on the building, I
would say probably in the firstyou know, 3040 years, there was
probably more than 200 on thaton the index that said I didn't
have a date. So and it'sprobably hard to know, then more
specifics, like how many mighthave died from suicide or right
when they were killed by anotherinmate or Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

(22:21):
Cuz all that index does is itliterally just says died and
there was a date. So there's nofurther information if you found
that inmates conduct record, perse, and then you could find more
detailed information sometimesthat might have more details.
But again, some of those arehard to come by because there's
large chunks of a missing thatmakes sense. So we have a
cemetery on the premises.

(22:42):
And you know, I I visited theplace of a few years ago, and
it's just stunning. Thearchitecture is beautiful when
they show I know especially thatreally the the cellblock That's
huge. That's I don't how manystories for that six stories.
Yeah, there's so there's twomain cell blocks for the
facility, east and west, they doboth pick up the same amount of

(23:02):
space as the building issymmetrical. But there are more
cells on the east side. So ourEast cell block has six years.
And there are about 50 cells onevery range over there. And then
our West cell block has fivetiers. And there's between 30
and 35 cells on every range overthere. So those cells on the
west side are slightly larger,because there are less of them.

(23:23):
So I had heard the myth thatsome inmates had been thrown
over the railing. Yeah, that'sprobably not a myth that
probably did happen.
Yeah, the West, the Westcellblock for a very long time,
just has waist rail. So there'sfive tears over there. And on
the tears, there's, you know,there's rails, but they're they
said there, they're about waistheight. So yes, people probably

(23:47):
were pushed off. People fell offthere certainly probably
incidents where people jumpedoff. Yeah, we don't know the
details, but that probablydidn't happen. The state of Ohio
eventually decided to wrap thatentire cellblock and fencing
essentially, there's still someparts of it, where you can see
where that was. My understandingis the Preservation Society

(24:08):
eventually took it off justbecause it was in really bad
shape. And it was a safetyhazard having, you know, fencing
that's falling apart all overthe place. So but they are as I
know, they didn't put thefencing up until probably the
70s. So it was open for a verylong time. The East cellblock,
however, which was constructedafter the West, cellblock does

(24:30):
have bars all the way up anddown, so it wouldn't have been
an issue over there.
I think.
Are there particular legends orstories that seem to have stuck
around to the place anything inparticular? Well, there's quite
a few. Yeah. Is there anythingspecific you're wanting to hear

(24:51):
about? So of course I've read abit about was a warden glatt
key.
Right. I don't know if they'reThere's anything unique related
to that that you think'srelevant. Yeah, there's quite a
few stories about the blackkeys. So Arthur black, he was,
he was the longest servingwarden in this prison history.
He was working from 1935 until1959.

(25:15):
This is that time period is areally important one in the
prisons history as well, becausethat's when we're starting to
make the transition from amedium security reformatory to a
maximum security prison. Thathappened for a lot of reasons.
But one of the main reasons isovercrowding. We started getting
overcrowded really quickly inthe 20s. Because of prohibition,

(25:35):
right? You have people nowcoming to prison on charges of
liquor trafficking, which wasnot an issue previously. And so
we have a lot more people cominghere than we had the space for.
And then in the 1930s, ofcourse, you have the Great
Depression, which, again, it'sgoing to it's going to impact
your prison populations. In1930, as well, there was a
really large significant fire atthe Ohio penitentiary in

(25:57):
Columbus.
It killed over 300 inmates, it'sone of the worst to happen in
the United States still to thisday. And after that fire
happened, the penitentiarystarted sending some people out
to other facilities.
One to take some time to repairthe damage. But also because
they were just they had too manypeople in there when that fire

(26:18):
happened the penitentiary atover twice their maximum
capacity.
Up to that point. Theoretically,the only way you went to the
reformatory here is if you ifthis was your first offense,
right? This would be your firsttime in a correctional facility
if you were here.
They started thinking, well,there's a lot of people at the
penitentiary that committedsimilar offenses, right burglary

(26:39):
charges, for example that we'resending people to the
reformatory for, but they mightbe at the penitentiary because
they had a record already. It'slike, Well, maybe if we send
some of these people out of thepenitentiary and send them to a
reformatory, or an honor farm orsomething like that, give them
another chance to reformthemselves. Maybe they'll get
out faster, and they won't comeback, which is a good idea in
theory for these guys are comingfrom penitentiary, right, which

(27:02):
is a very, very differentinstitution. And we are at the
reformatory as you can imaginesomebody at the penitentiary,
maybe they're in there on aburglary charge. But they're in
the same building as somebody ona charge of double homicide.
Yeah, you know, you you'regonna, you're probably not going
to, you might come out of bettercriminal, especially right,
because you're gonna be withthese other people. And you got

(27:24):
to do what you got to do, youknow. So they started sending
people here from thepenitentiary in 1930. We have to
adapt. So they startedincreasing our security.
Eventually, they started sendingmore people here, we're
continuing to be overcrowded. Inthe 30s, we were at our highest
this this prison was built housebetween 14 and 1600 people.

(27:46):
But at its highest, that houseprobably closer to 3400. So
there was a lot more people inhere than we could handle. And
so we have to start changing howwe do things. And so as they're
making all these changes, ArthurBlackie is the warden in 1935,
when they're starting toincrease their security and
starting to change how thisprison operates. And by the
1960s, we officially become amaximum security prison, which

(28:09):
means the reform program that wehad, it's going to change a lot.
When we open they say you had toparticipate in that reform
program, you had to go to work,you had to go to school, you had
to go to church, you had to goout to the yard. These things
were intended to give you skillsso that when you get out, you're
not coming back, right. So youcould get a real education you
could get, you could actuallyget your high school diploma
here. Later on, they offeredcollege classes and you could

(28:32):
get real college credit, you gotreal certificates to do things
at your workplace, you couldwork in the boiler house, and
you could get a certificate tooperate that you could become a
nursing aide in our hospital,you could become a state
certified barber in our barbershop. So these, these things
start dropping off slowly, theystill exist. And you can still
participate in them if you ifyou choose to. But once we start

(28:54):
becoming a match, these thingsbecome optional. And so now you
no longer have to go to work orgo to school if you don't want
to. But that means you're goingto sit yourself for a lot
longer. And the cells that aredesigned to ask you for eight
hours a day, because it's aplace for you to sleep because
the rest of the day you're outdoing thing now could be helping
you for 20 hours a day. And youprobably have a bunkmate so it's
you know, I can't I can'timagine how stressful

(29:17):
arthroplasties job was becausethey're trying to operate. This
is something that it wasn'tbuilt to operate us so
but he became more than when hebecame more than he did have on
site. He was actually stillsingle when he moved in here.
But eventually he meets a womannamed Talon and they end up
getting married. I believe hemet her at a political event.

(29:39):
She moved in here with him. Theylived here for a while this was
actually their starter home.
They had a couple of kids whilethey were living here.
One of those kids is actuallystill around today. I think he
lives in California now. Theother kids unfortunately passed
away two or three years ago.
They put up all kinds of stuffover here. I can't even imagine
growing upIn this building, there's

(30:00):
little. We have home videos ofthe glaspie kids like riding,
you know, tricycle bikes,whatever, like outside on our
front porch. It's so crazy tosee it. But yeah, so he moved in
here with Helen. Sorry tofamily. But unfortunately for
them, they went through a lot oftragedy while they were living
here. Story is Helen black, hewas getting ready for an event.

(30:23):
She was getting ready for theday. And she was in her bedroom.
And our wardens living space.
And she was reaching up intoyour closet to grab like hat box
or a jewelry box or something,it was on the top shelf. And
these closets are really bigwith built in, they're really
tall. And I guess she wasreaching up to grab this box and
didn't realize that herhusband's loaded gun was sitting

(30:44):
on top of one of them. And soshe dropped the box, drop the
gun, it did discharge when ithit the floor and hit her
through her long. She was yeah,she was she was transported the
hospital immediately. AndMansfield was doing okay for a
while, but unfortunately,complications set in and she
passed away a couple days later,due to that injury.

(31:08):
So after that happened, Arthurand the kids did continue to
live here. But in 1959, Arthurwas found slumped over his desk
downstairs, he had suffered aheart attack. And I can't
imagine how stressful his jobwas, he probably never got away
from work, I can't imagineliving at my workplace.
And you know, now he's also asingle father of two kids. But

(31:30):
he was also taken to thehospital in Mansfield. And he
did pass away that same day atthe hospital.
So at that point, his kids werenot quite old enough to move out
on their own yet, they werestill in school. So they
continued living here actually,with the assistant warden who
was living here at the time,until they were ready to move
out. At that point, the statedecided, you know, what, we

(31:51):
probably don't need our staff onsite anymore.
When we opened, that was a verycommon practice to have your
staff on site, whether it was acorrectional facility or a
hospital or you know, like amental health institution. A lot
of times you had your staff onsite, because, you know, in the
late 1800s, early 1900s, ifthere's an emergency, you can't
get ahold of them quickly, norcan you get the meter quickly.
So you really needed them closeby. But by the late 1950s, it's

(32:16):
a different story they in Inaddition, we're starting to
become a maximum securityprison. So it's probably a
safety concern, having yourstaff on site. So the assistant
warden was moved out in theearly 1960s. And then guards
were the last staff to move out,they continue to live on site up
into the 70s. And they weremoved out after that there was
actually some houses across thestreet that the state owned by

(32:36):
guards could rent at that pointas well. And so are there also
alleged paranormal claims in thewardens area that they think are
attributed to? Yeah, therecertainly are. Yeah, a lot of
people a lot of people feel likethey're still around.
Sometimes people want to some ofthe more common claims that
people will experience. Peoplewill sometimes smell like, like

(32:59):
rose or like rosewater typestuff. Helen Blackie was
actually known to wear rosewaterperfume, so a lot of people feel
like that might have been her.
Sometimes, people will smelllike cherry scented pipe tobacco
over in that area. Peopleusually feel like that might be
Arthur still hanging around. Soyes, they're certainly they're

(33:20):
certainly claims of peoplehaving experiences which they
think may be one of the blackkeys. And do you have any tips
for maybe first time visitors?
People who've not been there?
Oh, yeah. I always tell peopleexpect the unexpected. Yeah, you
will probably learn somethingthat you did not know before.
But the buildingarchitecture is amazing. So

(33:41):
certainly be prepared to takethat in. It's not what you
expect to see in a prison forsure. Especially on the outside.
I mean, the building isgorgeous. Looks like a castle.
So yeah, as far as as far asthat goes, Yeah, I always tell
people expect the unexpected.
You're gonna you're gonna see orlearn something that you were
not expecting to see or learn,especially with the building.

(34:05):
For all the different wayspeople can experience it. You
have you mentioned the Hollywoodin history tour.
Is there like a self guided tourright during the day? Yeah, so
there's a lot of different.
There's a lot of differentoptions for experiences building
depending on what you'reinterested in. Right now, our
daytime tours are all selfguided because of COVID-19.
Unfortunately, we can't havehuge groups. So yeah, right now

(34:27):
they are all self guided. We dohave audio ones. So those are
kind of like little portabletour guides. There's little
blacks around the building withnumbers on them and you just
type it into your little onehold it up to your ear. It'll
give you a lot of information.
Those have information historicinformation, Shawshank stuff,
other Hollywood movies,paranormal information. Those

(34:50):
are great.
I usually recommend at leastgiving yourself an hour and a
half to walk through thebuilding. Although it can throw
you could make a whole day outof it if you wanted to.
But when we start doing guidedtours, again, we do have a
couple we have our history meetsHollywood score, which is our
general overview, you'll get alot of historic information

(35:10):
you'll get the Shawshankinformation will stop at a lot
of areas where they did somefilming for that movie.
Some people, depending on yourtour guide, you'll get a
different tour most times,because all of us have our own
special interest or history withthe building. So
it's always fun, you can comemultiple times, and you'll
probably have a slightlydifferent experience every time
which is great.

(35:32):
And we also have a beyond thebars tour, which is usually the
one that I give. So I'm verymuch looking forward to being
able to do that, again. That'swhere we'll get you into all the
restricted areas that you don'tget to see on the normal tour or
the self guided tour. So thatone takes you up to our old
armory, it'll take you up,it'll take you up into the attic
down into the sub basement ornew solitary confinement. Couple

(35:55):
other spots do depending on theday and weather permitting. So
that's a great tour, if you wantto get more architectural
information. That's definitely ahistory heavy tour gets into
some of the more scandalousstuff that was going on for
sure. And then we also do ainmate guided tour with one of
our former inmates, his name isMichael Humphrey.

(36:18):
He was here. And so he'll do atour where he will tell you what
it was like being here based onhis own personal experiences. So
that's absolutely a great one totake. If you ever get a chance.
Those are all the daytime tours.
And we have nighttime tours.
Oh, yeah, yes, we do. We do goswaps, which are guided tours

(36:40):
that go out at night. Usuallythose are on Fridays, those are
definitely gonna be moreparanormal focused tours. Again,
with those, you'll get adifferent tour every time
because your tour guide willtell you their own personal
experiences. So those are great.
Sometimes there's time, youknow, usually when I give them
we'll do a little bit ofinvestigating on those tours,
but they're about two hour longguided tours, and you'll get
historic information. But inaddition, those are more

(37:01):
paranormal focus will tell yousome fun ghost stories. And then
we do ghost hunts, which areovernight investigations. So
those when you come in, you'llget a tour, and then you're on
your own. So three in themorning, their staff here, of
course, if you have questions orneed anything, but that'll give
you some opportunities andinvestigation. So those are also
a lot of fun.

(37:23):
So many options you get forpeople to examine and
investigate. And I like thecombination of the history, as
well as the supernaturalelements.
I'm sure that's a big part ofwhat draws people to the place.
Is that, that what you gathertoo is? Or maybe I should just

(37:43):
ask you, what do you think isthe most compelling element that
keeps drawing people? Ooh, um, Imean, honestly, I think I'm
biased because I work here and Ilove the building. So I think
everything is equallyfascinating. But
I think people come for boththough. And it's, like I said
earlier, it's cool because youhave people that come here for

(38:03):
one specific thing, maybe theycome here because they you know,
they follow us on Ghost Huntersand they're really interested in
the paranormal aspect. But thenwhen they get here, they learn
something about the history too.
Or maybe they come here becausethey love Shawshank Redemption,
but then they you know, learnsomething else while they're
here. So I think all of it isequally fascinating, but we do
try to offer something foreverybody.

(38:26):
Something for everybody. Indeed,one of the biggest draws from
any visitors is the opportunityto seek out spirits. Ghost
Hunters of all stripes are knownto come from far and wide. Next,
we'll hear from one suchadventurer, Miss Holly fester, a
middle school teacher by day.
Holly had long to investigatethe Ohio State Reformatory for

(38:48):
years before finally doing sothis past summer. And boy, does
she have a story to tell us.
I am in a tiny little towncalled Girard Illinois. I'm from
St. Louis. So we're in thecountry. All right. So nice to

(39:10):
connect with you over all thesemiles. And I guess maybe
illustrates a bit of thereputation that the reformatory
has having drawn you from allthat distance. Yes, for sure.
It's definitely the reformatoryis infamous
amongst people who like to stirup stuff.

(39:34):
That's what I've been gathering.
You know, I've been born andraised in Ohio all my life and
it's loomed large and folklorehere. So it's nice to have a
perspective your perspectivefrom the outside looking in.
And I am one half of thefounding members of cities

(39:54):
paranormal.
The other half is my cousin andbest
Friend magenta, and she lives inLouisville, Kentucky. So,
Louisville and St. Louis, oursister cities. And so that's how
we came up with a name for ourlittle organization. And we've
been ghost hunting together.
This is going to be SCPs 10thyear coming up. So Ohio State

(40:19):
was one of our bucket listitems. We finally got there this
past summer, and it was awesome.
Well, now I'm so curious, orspeak here in more detail. But
how 10 years? That must be quitethe accumulation of stories.

(40:42):
That yes, I have so manystories. And actually, this is
the season when, you know, myfriends are like, Hey, we're
having a bonfire come over. Andyou know, Holly's got some
reason. I once Yeah, once youget me started on, like, I have
so manythings that, you know, when you

(41:03):
go into these places that whenthey happen, you're like,
it did that didn't reallyhappen. And it doesn't really
hit you how unique of anexperience it is until you've
slept on it, I think and toldthe story to somebody else. And
you're like, Oh, my God, I can'tbelieve that happened to me. So

(41:24):
we definitely had a couple ofthose happen in OSR.
Right? What were some of yourexpectations, maybe going into
it? or what have you learnedabout it beforehand? Well, I
probably the first time thatmagenta and I had heard about
Mansfield or OSR was on one ofthe travel male goats shows

(41:47):
because that was how we andeverybody else, you know, got
into paying good money to gointo buildings, and ride around
in the dark all night.
And I just rememberseeing it for the first time on
Ghost Hunters and GhostAdventures and just thinking,
Oh, my God haunted prison nowthat that would be cool. And so

(42:10):
we just kind of thought, okay,yes, Sunday, because it's kind
of in the middle. For both of uswe like to find haunts that we
can meet up up. We just luckedout. And we were able to get a
spot this summer. And going intoit for expectation.

(42:31):
Magenta and I are bothresearchers. We were both
teachers. We both really like tobe armed with knowledge and like
to know what we're going intoand have a plan. But somebody
other members of our team reallylike to go in blind. And so some
people that we went with didn'teven know that it was the movie

(42:51):
set. And when we pulled up theywere like, This was really
Yeah, I didn't want to spoil itfor you. But it's kind of
Shawshank, you know. So I thinkthat our expectations were just
like, This is big. The other Iwould compare it to Waverly
Hills Sanatorium and Louisville,which is our other great big

(43:14):
building that one of the othergreat big buildings that we've
done that gives us kind of thatsame thrill of anticipation
because it's just so well known.
Oh, yes. And very imposingstructures, both of them. Yes.
And oh, Ohio State is gorgeous.
I mean,pulling up it really the way

(43:34):
that the town is set up.
Obviously, it seems obvious tome anyways, that, you know, the
prison got there first, and thenthe halls popped up in the town,
you know, town popped up aroundit as people came to work there.
And so you really, the prisonsits on the outskirts of the

(43:58):
town. And the way that our GPStook us was up over a rise. And
then as we, you know, got to thetop of this hill, it was just
laying down below us. And it isimposing.
Definitely intimidating, butreally gorgeous. I mean, the

(44:19):
preservation work that they'vedone. It's really it's
immaculate. It's beautiful.
Now, there seems to be quite apassion, not just for the
paranormal goings on course, butalso the history and the
architecture. Andyeah, there's so much to be
admired there. I think. So itwas, like you said a bucket list

(44:39):
for you in magenta. And say youfound they found the time just
this past summer to go. Yeah,you know,
a little shout out to to theto the folks who run the place.
The Preservation Foundation.

(45:00):
They were so nice to work with,and so pleasant and able to get
us in. And then when we gotthere, I believe it's tri city,
ghost hunters or paranormal I'msorry, I don't know their name
exactly. But they were ourhosts. And they were wonderful
as well. So definitely shout outto all the people who run that

(45:22):
place to do a great job.
On glad to hear you're welcome.
Let's talk more than about whatthe actual experience was like,
for you.
This place when you walk up toit, like you said, it looms
large and it literally does hewalk up to it, you feel small.

(45:43):
And when you walk in, I mean, itwas a hot day, it was,
you know, upper 90s. Very hotsummer go. But when you walk
into that door, it's cool. Andit's you get that musky smell of
a dark closed in space. And asthe paint is peeling off of all

(46:08):
the bars of the styles and givesit a very dilapidated or old and
abandoned everything that youwant it to look like it looks
like.
And the sounds that the doorsmake when they you know, when
they shot. They're very ringingand loud. And it kind of makes

(46:29):
you think what it would be liketo hear that if you were hearing
that closed behind you.
The two cell blocks are reallyimposing their freestanding cell
blocks. I can't remember ifthey're six stories tall,
they're very tall. And whenyou're walking them, they seem
to go on forever. And the soundechoes and really messes with

(46:54):
you, because you are making yourown shuffling sounds but you're
hearing other shuffling sounds.
As far as experiences that wehad.
We had a lot but the two that Ican think of, first of all, we
so we went went with a group ofabout a dozen of us. And we were

(47:18):
we were close to half and halfmen and women. The men, the
boys, nothing happened to them.
They had no experiences. Thegirls, we were having
experiences left and right. So Ithought that was interesting
because you know male prison,you get some fun, talkative,
energetic female energy in thereand stuff started to really kind

(47:42):
of happen as soon as we started.
So the first thing that happenedwas we girls that are probably
eight of us, walked out of thesafe room and headed down to an
area of one of the cellblockswhere we have been told some

(48:03):
certain things were happening Ithink we were headed toward the
hospital flush toilet room andshower room. And we didn't even
get I mean, we were two minutesinto our investigation we hadn't
even gotten all the way down orlong. cellblock when I saw just

(48:23):
clear as day at the end of thislong cellblock
it was lit up read from an exitsign, and I saw probably a six
foot tall shadow just go infront of me and I stopped in my
tracks and I had it on I have myreaction on video but I don't

(48:44):
have the actual shadows thatyou're on video. I stopped in my
tracks and I go wait a minuteand then in my video you hear my
friend Brittany go oh my god,did you see that too? And I said
what did you see? And she waslike I just saw a shadows with
your I just saw somebody walkacross the end of the hallway.

(49:04):
And we tried to recreate it. Ithought maybe it was a
flashlight behind me. Shining.
I'm projecting my shadow ontothe wall we tried to debunk and
there was no it was impossible.
We just saw what we saw. Andright away we were like okay

(49:27):
like, Okay, this is gonna beinteresting and it just went
from there. We stopped rightwhere we were and had did a
dowsing rod session which iswhere you hold the two copper
rods and try to hold them in aneutral position ask questions
and try to get yes and noanswers. We got plenty of hits

(49:47):
on that.
We went into the toilet roomfrom there and we were getting
more answers to our dowsing rodsquestions and then we had a rock
thrown at usIn the toilet room? Yeah, it was
really, it was a pebble and itunmistakably got flicked across
the floor from the back cornerof the room toward us.

(50:14):
And we were getting ready toleave. I think we had said, you
know, would you like us toleave? Just let us know.
Right on a few. Yeah, we werelike little, that seems like an
indication that you would likeus to leave
a powerful experience,especially with the shadow.

(50:35):
Thank you for that you hadconfirmation with the other
person there? Yeah, that was sothat is always wonderful. When
that happens that somebody elsesees it or experiences that as
well.
I'll tell you the lastexperience of the night, that
really is the one that I'll takewith me as my memory from Ohio

(50:59):
State. For us, it was myselfmagenta, and Rachel and Robin,
we, again, just a group offemales. It was almost three
o'clock in the morning when wehad to leave. And we had to walk
down to the end of one of thecellblocks to pick up a camera
that we had left because wewanted to record while we

(51:21):
weren't there. We took the longway around, and we went all the
way around this huge spot in thedark. And as we picked up the
camera, and we started the laststretch to walk back to the safe
room.
She didn't know better. I said,Okay, you guys, we're leaving.

(51:42):
This is your last chance if youwould like to say goodbye to us.
And that's typical for me tosay. But then my smart alec
friend Rachel said, yeah, thankyou bug on the rails or so and
we'll come up and let you out.
Which we don't provoke. Well,that's like not we it was just a
joking kind of a thing that shesaid it but

(52:06):
right when she said thatRachel and I were walking in the
back and I mean 15 feet behindus. 20 feet behind us. We hurt,
stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp onthe concrete. In the dust of the
concrete, we heard like boots,heavy male footsteps, stomping

(52:26):
and shuffling toward us. And weboth all four of us froze and
retold. I looked at each otherand I said are those and she
saidand it was like as Scooby Doo.
We got those like rambling legs,like we just couldn't panic.

(52:50):
Because it was right behind us.
And it was so clear. And we'dstarted to run because that
fight or flight kicked in. AndRobin said, let's get out of
here. And we started to scrambleand kind of run and I said whoa,
wait, wait, hold on. We don't dothis, we're not gonna run. And
we had to like force ourselvesto walk calmly back that entire

(53:14):
links of that cellblocks and Iturned around and said, Okay,
you know, I hope that youenjoyed that because you just
scared the crap out of fourfemales. You know, we're leaving
now you have to stay here andkind of did the usual clipping
spiel that we do. But that's amoment, I'll never forget.

(53:36):
Because that one sent chillsstraight down my spine.
You did such a great descriptionof that. And just the natural,
like instinctual fear. You know,someone's running at you. If
something like running up yourbasement stairs as a kid, that's

(53:56):
exactly what it felt like, orwhen you were a kid, definitely
not a 40 year old woman. And yourun in jump on your bed in the
dark. And you know, because ofthe thing under the bed. It's
just that that irrational kindof giddy fear feeling. That's
exactly what it was. And for thefour of us grown women to have

(54:18):
to be like, Okay, we're notgonna run. We are going to walk
and, you know, be brave. It wasit was definitely tough.
How does that compared to othersites that you've instigated
over the past years?
It was, I think thatOhio State was really remarkable

(54:40):
for the number of personalexperiences that we had, just
like that one. I don't have anyproof of that on any any of the
media that we had. And that wasthe case. I really didn't get a
lot of other evidence fromthere. Usually we
Get a fair amount of EVPs, whichis electronic voice phenomenon

(55:05):
where you don't hear it withyour ears, but you hear it on
the recording after the fact wealways get those. I don't think
we got a single one.
And it really seemed likewhatever is at OSR.
Seems kind of wily seems kind ofcunning seems to definitely come

(55:27):
out when it wants to and notwhen it doesn't. Other spots,
other hunts that we haveinvestigated, like I would say,
Waverly Hills, and Louisvillehas a really peaceful feeling
about it actually. It's justsuch a beautiful setting and
you're out in the country inthis abandoned but still
graceful building. And itdoesn't feel ominous or heavy.

(55:52):
We've been to another prison,went to Missouri State
Penitentiary, and had somereally heavy interactions there.
Where we, we definitely feltwatched and unappreciated. Were
actually a couple of couple ofour friends got physically ill

(56:15):
at the time. Yeah, and I didn'tfeel anything like that. At Ohio
State. Personally, twice, I feltthat feeling of running up the
basement stairs, I really feltlike something was just just
kind of pushed me along, likeright on my heels. But nothing
that felt heavy, like, youbetter leaves this dark. So a

(56:40):
lot of what's happened in thesedifferent types you've been to
it's almost like an emotionalexperience when personally in
the atmosphere, right? Yeah. AndI think it depends on if you're
paying attention to that. Andnot everybody interacts like
that. That's just kind of, Iguess my style is to sort of, I

(57:01):
don't know, feel it. I don'tmean to sound too, like, hippie
dippie when I say that, but itis I mean, there is a spiritual
component, of course, you'regoing looking for spirits.
That makes sense.
This is probably not a really afair question. But it's, you
know, trying to guess at who orwhat is behind this or who it

(57:23):
represents, whether it's formerinmates or guards or something
else altogether, as it must bepretty hard to put a finger on
that.
As far as what, what remains orwhat the nature of
the haunting is, right? Theparticular spirits that are

(57:44):
there.
Yeah, I really,I tend to think of these
buildings as kind of like, olddead trees, you know, after a
tree has lived and served itspurpose as a living tree, if it
dies, and is still standing, itbecomes a habitat to whatever is

(58:04):
passing through. And whateverneeds a place to hang out,
whether it be other plants, orbirds nesting in it, or other
animals living in it, to me thatthat's how I think of places
like Ohio State, because I don'tnecessarily think, oh, people
died here or whatever. All thesepeople died here, they must all

(58:29):
still live here. I think that ifthat was the case, we'd have a
lot more haunted officebuildings and haunted schools
and hospitals. To me.
I think that depending on whereyou go, you get a lot of just
whatever spirit or entity iskind of passing through or has

(58:54):
made a home there. You know,they can be untruthful with you,
if you get into interacting withenergies that can manipulate or
make you hear them or all thedifferent ways that they can
interact with us, we inox orturning flashlights off and on.
They can be untruthful, they canbe misleading. So I'm careful to

(59:17):
assume that anything I interactwith was a patient or was a
prisoner or work there. I wouldhate to haunt a middle school
hallway.
Of myyou know, I always call when
you're alive.
I don't want it to be said thatOle Miss spectre is haunting

(59:40):
sixth grade hallway. Because youwouldn't want that for your
eternal resting. Not personally.
That makes a lot of sense. And Ilove your metaphor of the dead
tree. And also, you know, kindof answers the question that's
been rumbling around in my mind,which is, you know, these
inmatesWere doomed to be in prison
their, for their life or theirphysical life. Why on earth? Or

(01:00:05):
in any universe? Or would theywant to stay there
as spirits? So it makes sensethat maybe it is more of a place
for wandering souls. Just speak.
Yeah, and I, and I think it'spossible that both

(01:00:25):
the both occurred that you havesome, maybe some actors that are
connected and, and do and I alsothink that the nature of, of
these energies is that they areon, they're not on the same
plane as us, it's not as if theycan only bounce around the walls
of one physical building.

(01:00:48):
So I really, I attend to go intoit like, Okay, this place is a
magnet for energies, and itseems to be a safe place where
these entities can hang out andgather. And they seem to like to
show themselves when you go intothis place. And so I see it,

(01:01:09):
more of that, than I do as like,okay, these are all prisoners
who are here.
Makes sense. I like how itexpands the concept of what a
lot of people assume, that goesthrough just where you know,
somebody happened to die in thisphysical location where now
there's a lot about the roles ofwhatever that plane is that we
certainly may not understand.
Right? How can we possibly knowand that's why to me, that

(01:01:33):
analogy of the tree might makesmore sense that kind of whatever
is passing through, might takeup residence there for a little
while, till chased off bysomething else, or until it
finds somewhere better or moveson. So Right.
Like I said, my personalexperience, and I would say our

(01:01:56):
the the experiences of sisterstudies, paranormal was
positive. The vibe that I gotwas curious. And a little shy.
Like I said, we did notexperience anything heavy and on
an ominous and I think when yougo into a haunted prison, that's

(01:02:18):
certainly what I was kind ofexpecting and was bracing for
was like, Okay, I'm ready forthe energy of some big burly
dude, who's angry and protectinghis cellblock to tell me to piss
off. But I never personallyexperienced that. So that would
be the only thing that I wouldsay to somebody is when you go

(01:02:40):
into a haunt like this or anyother and it's thought a
reputation, you should certainlydo your research. Because if
there is something that it'sknown for an evil presence, then
you should know that going in.
But I wouldn't assume thatthat's going to be how your
night goes, you just never know.

(01:03:01):
So I'm really great advice,especially for folks who've
never done there. Any other,even more practical just tips
about what to expect or whatkind of mindset for them to
bring? Sure.
So if it's, somebody is thinkingabout going to do an

(01:03:21):
investigation, and they haven'tdone one before. Or maybe
they've only gone on Route. And,you know, led investigations and
they're thinking about trying aprivate investigation.
Definitely do your research. Ofcourse, I think that's my
personal opinion, I like toknow. And I would say bring lots
of batteries, because they it'samazing how to have a fully

(01:03:46):
charged battery in whateverdevices is you're using. And
that's what I think they'reusing to manifest because they
do drain your batteries. There'sa really nice, safe room at OSR,
where they have lots of outletsand a nice bathroom and they buy

(01:04:08):
you pizza and they give you colddrinks, which was so nice. I
mean, they were wonderful hosts.
On a kind of spiritual note, Irecommend to everybody that I
take on a hunt to groundthemselves in the way that they
choose before they go in. For meand my group, that means that we
circle up and we pray to St.

(01:04:32):
Michael. And I wear a littletalisman, and you know, call my
angels and just ask them fortheir protection and also ask
them to keep me from doinganything stupid. Like if I'm
starting to mess was something Ishouldn't have any business
messing with please let me knowand I will listen to you. So and

(01:04:54):
for people who aren't religious,I'd say that's okay. You don't
have to be just whatever.
Whatever it is thatYou do to put up a spiritual
wall around yourself before yougo in and kind of get your mind
right is a good idea becausethat helps keep you in the
moment and not as afraid. And Iwill tell you that things can

(01:05:17):
follow you home. And you don'twant that. That's a whole nother
story for another time probably.
Oh, boy. Very, very sage advicebased on that personal
experience. It sounds like Yes.
And also, to your point, I thinkjust being very mindful and

(01:05:38):
open. And, you know, havingthose walls down, as well as
being able to pull them up whenyou need to. Yes, I would agree.
Andkeeping, I would say, keeping
your your mind, like you said,keeping your mind open, because
I think that people who go ontheir first hunt, or you know,

(01:05:59):
who want to hear my ghoststories,
they think that you see a fullbodied apparition every time you
turn a corner. And that iscertainly not the case, you're,
you know, you're sitting in thedark, for 40 minutes at a time
in total quiet while you'resweating.

(01:06:19):
Checking the batteries in yourcamera just waiting to hear
something. And at the time, it'slike, okay, this isn't exactly
what I expected. But when youcome out of it, you think, oh my
gosh, I really audibleexplanation for these really odd
things that happened. And Ithink I experienced something
really unique and paranormal. SoI feel like if you come out of

(01:06:42):
it at the end of the night withthat, then it was good, hon.
That's, that's a good point tobecause I think some people from
just watching all of the ghostshows and reality TV ghost
hunting, you know, it's allcondensed to those moments that
are so compelling, that I'm sureI'm whole. You know, there's a
lot of downtime andlistening for something that

(01:07:04):
you're notgetting in the dark and
listening to that. But yes, inthose moments where you get
something, it's it's definitelythrilling.
So it seems that patients reallypays off when it comes to ghost
hunting. For those of usdetermined to encounter what's

(01:07:26):
behind the veil, sitting andlistening and listening, and
sitting is often what leads tothat final thrilling moment of
capturing evidence of somethingbeyond ourselves.
Our last guest is one Mr. TomHale. Once a visitor this Lima
man became so intrigued by theplace that he now dedicates part

(01:07:49):
of his free time to promotingits Marvels to the rest of us.
And with good reason. Tom hasthe bug so to speak. You can
hear it in his voice. Come hearit for yourself.
Yeah, I got into it by absoluteaccident. I work in health care.

(01:08:09):
And there was a patient I wasworking with had back surgery.
And I was helping helping himwith his therapy afterwards. And
I walked in the room. I didn'tknow the guy from Moses. And I
said,Please tell me you're a guard,
not an inmate because he had a tshirt from Ohio State
Reformatory Mansfield, Ohio onit. So it's kind of an
icebreaker. And he said, No, Iactually go there with my kids.

(01:08:29):
I have one kid that goes tocollege in Cleveland, another
one in Columbus. And we meet inMansfield, once or twice a year,
I get to spend some time with mykids. They're used to being up
all night studying and doingwhatever. It's a win win. He
told me some of the evidencethat he got. And then
we went with the arm of thistherapy and everything. And I
thought the nurses are givinghim way too much pain medication

(01:08:52):
to be talking about dose andevidence and all this other
stuff. That's the first thing Ithought of. And I went to go
check out their Facebook pageafter I had my conversation with
them that night. And then I wentto a volunteer meeting thinking
that I'm going to be the onlyone crazy enough to drive an
hour and a half to go to avolunteer meeting to volunteer
at this place. And little bit Ifind out that there are people

(01:09:13):
that come from Cleveland,Columbus, some come from
Southeast Michigan, just fromall over the place, they can
drive 10 minutes or they candrive an hour and a half like I
could. So yeah, it's there's alot of people that have
volunteered their time therejust for trying to tell a story
of what used to happen back inthe day with incarceration in

(01:09:35):
Ohio. Well, that really speaksfor itself the radius of
distance there that it drawsvolunteers from including
yourself and you said you werefrom Lima? Yeah. Yeah, I live in
LA. I'm originally born inToledo. But I work here in Lima.
And like I said, I just happento go ahead and cross my path of
life with the patient who did itgoes from there with his kids

(01:09:59):
and just that oneConversation kind of helped me
get interested in this. I guessit was meant to be. And yeah,
that's what I'm that's what someother people have said to.
So it's been, I think you saideight years that you've been
working. Okay. Yeah. What aresome more of the standout
stories that you've collectedyourself? Or that you've heard

(01:10:22):
of? I think, I think the firstthing that comes to mind is the
very first time I actually hadsome evidence there. And it was
a very random night. At thetime, when I volunteered,
they really wanted you to knowthe history of the place. Before
you can get involved with theghost stuff, in case anybody
asked for anything specific. Andso I was a year and a half into

(01:10:48):
it. And I was leaving a ghosttown about about to wonder two
o'clock in the morning and I wasdriving home and I had drive an
hour and a half back to Lila. SoI just talked with somebody in
the central guard room, and I'mwalking down the stairs to pull
my walkie talkie away. And I seethis big shadow figure on the
right. And I'm walkingdownstairs, and it looks it just

(01:11:11):
looks like cigarette smoke. Orcigar smoke was just hanging
there. And didn't smell anythingbut I could see as clear as day.
So and mentally I'm losing it atthis point, because I'm
thinking, oh my god, this is thefirst time I've ever seen
anything, keep it together.
Don't scream Don't shout, justkind of keep it together. And I
turned the left away from it. Iput my walkie talkie when and

(01:11:32):
went right back in the hallwayagain, and it was gone.
So then I started sniffing likethis, like if you got a cold or
allergies, you start sniffingI'm thinking okay, is this
really the cigarette smoke?
Because I'm right by the doorgoes out to the parking lot. Is
this is the gar I'm trying todebunk the whole thing. At the
same time, two or three womencome down the stairs that I just

(01:11:53):
walked down. I thought I wascrying.
No, I just saw something. Forgetit. Nevermind, you'll never
believe me anyway. And so thatwas kind of my first paranormal
experience that was there. ButI've seen I've seen people that
have gotten their hair pulled,literally right in front of me.

(01:12:17):
I have seen shadow figures, I'veheard door slamming just a lot
of really weird stuff. Itdoesn't happen every time that I
go. But it has happened. And thesmoking kind of what you saw was
that like wispy, like, you know,smoke that that dissipates in
that in the air? Did it have anykind of shape? No, it was it was

(01:12:40):
just kind of something that'skind of hung there in the air. I
mean, there wasn't like a bodyfigure shape or anything like
that. But it was something I'venever seen before. And I wasn't
fatigued at all, like I need togo to sleep. And I don't wear
glasses or contactswhen I go to do ghost hunts and
stuff like that, or evenanything at the reformatory. So
it's not like my eyes wereplaying tricks on either. But I
just never seen that before. Andit just kind of just shocked the

(01:13:05):
heck out of me when it firsthappened. Because I wasn't
expecting I was gonna put mywalkie talkie away and go go
home and tell about it. And theysay sometimes that's when you
might have the more profoundexperiences is not when you're
calling out to them, I guess.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. They come to youon their terms kind of thing.

(01:13:25):
Sure. Yeah. And then the otherthings that you've seen were
like the hair pulling and theodd sounds that can't be
explained.
Yeah, the last one that happenedwas
it was it was the middle the endof June right after the governor
gave the okay to start doingthings in public. So we can get
out of the house and do stuffafter the COVID quarantine. And

(01:13:48):
there's a private ghost on thatone of the other volunteers
coordinated and so if you'reinterested, you can go ahead and
pay the money to go ahead and goand go talk there. So we pay the
money like everybody else doesfor private hunt to go out
there. And it was me and anothervolunteer in the back of the
attic. And we had three peoplebehind us that were looking at
some of the individual roomsupstairs in the article. And the

(01:14:11):
article is an overflow area forthe West cellblock and they have
there's a one door to come inand one door to go out the same
one. So when you go in thatdoor, there's about a 30 degree
incline. It's kind of metal,like a metal piece on the floor.
That makes an audible boom soundwhen you go walk through the

(01:14:34):
door. So imagine there's a linefull of people walking through
the door, you'd hear it againand again and again and again.
So we're in the back part of theattic. There's like 1520 people
on this private ghost on andmyself and another volunteer
just looking at the door. It'sabout seven 730 at night. sun
hasn't gone down yet. Threepeople behind us.

(01:14:57):
We're really not seeing a lotjust because you're trying
To keep our voices down, andthen all of a sudden we heard
this audible boom, like you'rewalking through the attic door
to come into the attic. And I'mstanding there and I didn't say
anything. And he looks up at me.
And he goes, do you hear that?
I'm like, Yeah, sounds likesomeone's walking through the
door. He's I don't see anything.
I'm like, neither. So we satthere for a good 1520 minutes,

(01:15:19):
didn't hear see anything else.
And the three people that werebehind us, they couldn't believe
what we told them. But yeah,that was the last thing that
happened back in June.
That's eerie. Yeah. Like itbeing such a distinct sound that

(01:15:39):
you knew exactly what it was.
Yeah. And I had heard that ithappened before with some of the
other ghost hunts that they hadthe summer, but that was the
first time where I was actuallyup there. So I could verify that
it did happen. And thank Godsomebody was with me, or else
they would have said, Oh, you'rejust making it up? Well, thank,
thank God, my friend Marty waswith me, because that's who I
was with. And when we were up inthe attic, and we can both tell

(01:16:01):
you, there was nobody there.
And I think the assumption a lotof people have is that whatever
kind of paranormal activity isthere are sort of, like
lingering souls from formerinmates. Is that what your deal
is for? Yeah, yeah, that's, it'sone of the things that I always

(01:16:22):
try to do is I try to get a nameif we can possibly get one. And
then I'll try to do my best togo ahead and find out who it is.
So that I have a story to backit up or find out some other
information if we possibly can.
But every time you go there, youmight get a name of somebody
else. That might be in the inthe cemetery, or someone who's
kind of latched on the electricchair. I mean, it's, there's a

(01:16:44):
lot of stuff going on there. Imean, it's, it's crazy. Some,
sometimes you might get a coupleof names, you might get a couple
of pieces of evidence. Sometimesyou might not be so lucky. But I
know the last time I was therefor a public con was in July.
And it seemed like some of theguests were just getting

(01:17:05):
lightning in a bottle. I mean,haircutting pool, shadow figures
on the third and third andfourth level of the less
cellblock. Some people justsaying,
I thought this person was overhere, I saw this big shadow
figure that walked by, and Ithought it was my friend and my
friend appears right behind me,scare the heck out of me. And

(01:17:25):
I'm like, oh, okay, this is geta little creepy tonight. And so
of course, what do you do?
You're not gonna go home, you'regonna stay to see what other
evidence you can get that nightimpossible. Right. So intrigued
by that point, I would think,yeah, it doesn't happen all the
time. But when it happens, youdefinitely want to go ahead and
take advantage of it.
Especially when you can get somenames behind it me do a little

(01:17:48):
research and see how you can youknow, find out more about the
life of that potential person?
Sure. Yeah.
As far as you know about anyfuture plans for the plank, do
you know what is it? Whatthey're doing now is what they
hope to carry on. And the yearsahead, that I really don't know,

(01:18:09):
I know that they've been doing alot of really neat restorations
that's there.
I know the Ohio penal Museum,which is on the first floor of
the West administration area,just finished last year, a lot
of really cool memorabilia,including the Ohio electric
chairs over there. They've gotsome stained glass windows that

(01:18:30):
are there from the the church atThe Ohio State Penn. They've got
an actual silver door from theOhio State Penitentiary as well.
A lot of other artifacts. I knowupstairs in the second level,
they've got the ShawshankRedemption area that's that's
been updated in the last yearwith a lot of really great stuff
we got from the, from the fromthe director, Frank Dearborn
last year at the reunion. Andyou mentioned the electric

(01:18:53):
chair. I know you said you didsome research on the unfortunate
souls who died. Yeah, I kind ofstumbled that on again by
mistake. I had surgery in 2013.
And when I was recouping athome, I was just reading random
books on on our library's webwebsites that you can go and

(01:19:13):
rent books on, download them toyour iPad and stuff. And I was
reading a book about the deathpenalty. And they said Ohio was
one of the few states thatelectrics are on display.
I said, Well, the one that wehave the reformatory was a
replica at the time. That wasn'tthe real deal. So I told some
relatives of mine, I live inCleveland, and they're in the

(01:19:35):
Cleveland police force. And theysaid, We don't know where it's
at. It's not up in here. So thenI called a friend of mine who
lives in Toledo, who the policeofficer knows it's not up in
here in Toledo because I justcalled around and asked, I said
nobody can have this like intheir garage just by accident
somewhere. Right. So I was overat The Ohio Historical Society

(01:19:55):
doing some other research andthen I just asked a random
And it was in the library on thevery top floor. I says you
wouldn't by any chance knowwhere to go. Next year's had it.
What didn't they go? Yeah, it'sin a warehouse down the street.
Well, we had a Christmas partythat night at the reformatory
Mansfield. So I was gonna drivethere after I was done. So I
said, I hate to be pushy. But isthere any way I can go see it?

(01:20:16):
Because I don't live here inColumbus. And it'd be really
kind of cool. If you could. Letme see it. And as luck would
have it, he goes, Yeah, I'mactually getting off for work.
I'll just take you there myself.
So we went around the corner,drove down the street, it was in
a big warehouse that was there.
And I thought, oh, my gosh, thisthing is Bobby out in public
again. I mean, he can't keep itin here. I'd be needed. If you

(01:20:37):
can kind of show the people thisis what they used to do back in
the day. So and no joke, as wewere leaving. He says, Well, let
me go ahead and turn on thesecurity alarm before we leave.
And he was just stand righthere. So I was like, 50 feet
from the chair and about 10 feetfrom the door to go outside and
go to our cars. And he literallytakes two steps away from me.

(01:20:58):
And the alarm goes off.
And and I didn't never beenthere before. So I thought okay,
well, is this did you issomebody else in here in the
building? Or did you hit afloater? So those No, this has
never happened before. I don'tknow what happened. And I'm
like, Oh, this is interesting.
Now now it's kind of doubled myinterests to figure out how we
can get this out of here instorage. So that that night we

(01:21:20):
are that night we had aChristmas party is reformatory.
So I went up to our executivedirector is Paul, I said, Hey,
is there any way we can get ridof the of the replicating,
bringing the real thing. And atthe time, they had so many other
projects on their on theirlists? This was just something
that wasn't at the front? So hesaid, Well, I'll think about it.

(01:21:40):
So they had the projects thatthey were doing. I thought,
okay, no big deal. He's gotother things to worry about. So
about a year later, I got a textfrom him. And it says, Hey,
we're going to go to Columbusand pick up the original
aperture on Friday. Do you wantto come with us?

(01:22:00):
I'll be asking for a vacationday from work.
So I literally went to my boss,who's a great guy, and I says, I
gotta get Friday off, we'regoing to pick up the original
electric shares from Columbus,we're taking it over to
Mansfield to put in the Ohiopenal Museum, and he looks at me
and he goes, You know, there'sbetter excuses. You could have
given me that Friday off, andI'm like, Okay, well, what's the

(01:22:21):
truth, really, I'm not trying togo. Frontal idea. We went to go
pick it up. And in Columbus, weput it in the back of the U
haul. And we took it back toMansfield and we, the replica
was moved out, and then we putthe real one in. And I would say
the creepiness of the buildingjust got doubled. Just putting

(01:22:41):
that in there. But also on ourway back, I said, Do we have
anywhere where we can find someinformation about the electric
chair, I mean, like, people thatpassed away any oddities names
of people, and we reallycouldn't find any. So I thought,
Well, I think I'm going to goahead and look myself and try to

(01:23:02):
figure out some informationabout it. So I started five
years ago, trying to figure outinformation regarding the
execution on all 315 people,which took me a very long time
to do. And I end up gettingpictures and common themes that
I've seen. And now my goal is ifwe get any evidence during the

(01:23:24):
ghost hunt, I want to go on mylist and find out some
information. For example, we hada ghost hunter that was there.
And he said he had an Oculuswith them, which picks up
dictionary words. And he said hehad a name called him that was
on his on his Oculus. I said,where are we at? Because we're

(01:23:44):
at all that's right outside. Thepenal museum was sitting on the
stairs and I get hand I'm like,I didn't know what that was. So
I look on my list. And there wasa 17 year old kid Louis hand,
who died in the electric chair.
And, but he killed a six yearold boy in a farm in swine,
Ohio. And when I saw the pictureof this kid, I'm like, he
doesn't look like he didn'tshave when he died in the

(01:24:05):
electric chair. But that nightis when I found my first real
bit of evidence. And every timeI go, my goal is to try to get
another name, and another name,but I've only gotten a few. But,
um, but at the time, when we gotthe chair into the reformatory,
I had no idea that stuff wasgoing to hang on to this thing.

(01:24:26):
Bringing it into thereformatory. I just thought,
okay, chairs and the chairs in ahistorical place, people will
see it, no big deal. Well, thensomebody brought up the fact
that hey, things kind of attachitself on to other things if you
move it, and I thought, Oh myGod, what did I do? So I kind of
felt terrible because thatwasn't my goal is to bring more

(01:24:47):
bad stuff, or bring anythingwith it to Mansfield I wanted to
deal with short for historicalpurposes so you can see what it
looks like to kind of find outsome information
Got it. But now that it's beenthere for the last couple of
years, my goal is to try to findsome more information about it,

(01:25:07):
the more people that have paidtheir debt to society in there.
I think that, you know, thehistorical value is really
clear. And I know that I'veheard the theory that sometimes
spirits attach themselves toobjects. And I guess that might
go along with some of whatyou're describing there. For

(01:25:27):
example, this Lewis hand isstill attached to the chair
itself.
How did you find the informationabout what he did? The boy that
he killed? And Selena was thatlike in a newspaper article or
something? Yeah, I did a reallybig literature search, because

(01:25:49):
in grad school, my professorsaid, in order for something to
be valued from a researchperspective, you gotta have date
time in place. Yeah. So I try toget the name of those newspaper
article,newspaper article itself, and
then where it came from, andthen the year to date in the
month, so that way, I've got apaper trail.

(01:26:15):
That's right, a paper trail, Tomwas kind enough to share what
documents he had alreadyuncovered. It's one of many dark
tales connected to the actualelectric chair, the state used
for executions. As Tommentioned, thanks in part two
his own efforts. The chair isnow on display there at the Ohio
State Reformatory. At least oneghost hunter had detected the

(01:26:38):
name hand while investigating inthe area.
Tom's extensive research ofinmates who died in the chair
revealed one young man, a boy bytoday's standards, Lewis hand,
who was executed in 1944. Atonly 17 years old.
Come here, this heart wrenchingtale of abandonment,

(01:27:02):
delinquency, and death.
Lewis Vernon hand was born March8 1926, in the tiny dark county
village of N Sonia. His parentssoon separated, and for reasons
left unclear, the state tookcustody of him and his sister

(01:27:24):
Dorothy, three years as seniorDorothy was listed in census
records as quote feeble minded.
Lewis was only 18 months old atthe time, they became Ward's of
the state.
For most of his childhood, thehand siblings lived at the Darke
county Children's Home north ofGreenville, Ohio.

(01:27:46):
This institution was a quoterepository for unwanted
indigent, handicapped andincorrigible children.
It was essentially an orphanage.
However few children were everactually adopted. Many were
rented out as child laborers onfarms, and as domestic servants
and homes. There was littleoversight, and it's believed

(01:28:07):
that physical and sexual abusewere common occurrences. The
facility was in full operationuntil 1972. When the structure
was demolished, you can stillfind a little cemetery at the
spot where it wants stoodcontaining unmarked graves of
forgotten children who nevergrew into adulthood.

(01:28:32):
Whatever life Lewis and hissister may have endured during
this time, is now known only tothe ages. It's reasonable to
suspect that Louis sufferedgreatly the grisly crime he
would later commit and confessto may have been born of the
pain, abuse and abandonment heendured as a child. The story

(01:28:52):
I'm about to tell you is tragicin so many ways, and it
illustrates just how earlytrauma can have effects that are
wide reaching, leaving multiplevictims.
Louis lived at the Darke countychildren's home until the age of
14, when he was apprehendedwhile trying to steal an
automobile. It's possible thathe intended to use it to escape

(01:29:16):
from the institution. Whenpresenting at court to stand for
the crime. A judge took pity onthe boy and sentenced him to an
18 month stay at the boysIndustrial School in Lancaster.
This was a radical program forits time, offering juveniles
diversion from the criminaljustice system. Instead of

(01:29:37):
detention, Lewis would betrained in a trade while living
in a cottage with other boys.
The school was held up as anexample by other juvenile
justice systems across thecountry. One of its most famous
graduates was none other thanBob Hope. The comedian donated
generously to the schoolThroughout his long career.

(01:29:58):
Unfortunately,Lewis his time there wasn't
enough to set him on a differentcourse. He'd been released from
the program in April 1944, butwas soon arrested by the FBI for
stealing another vehicle, thentaking it across the Indiana
State Line. That brought himbefore a federal judge in
Toledo, who sentenced him toprobation. The main requirement

(01:30:19):
was that he worked at the farmof Mr. Rufus Stover of Solon,
Ohio.
Lewis his first day as afarmhand was on May 27.
From a very early age, he hadbeen required to work doing jobs
he hated. He made it through thefirst month on the farm, the

(01:30:42):
tensions were brewing. The youngman surly attitude never left
him. He'd grown resentful, andangry, and who could much blame
him. He'd been abandoned by hisparents, and left to suffer in
an unregulated orphanage. By thetime the state got around to
teaching him a trade, he'd lostthe interest. He was inclined

(01:31:04):
toward a life of escape freedom,and the chance to do and go
where he pleased.
Richard, the former six year oldson was an only child. He'd
looked up to Louis from thestart, and had taken to
following them around the place.
Come the afternoon of July 3, hetalked Lewis into playing some
pitch and catch the to plan tomeet at Richard's grandfather's

(01:31:28):
farm across the road. But whenthe time finally came, and the
young boy came skipping acrossthe road, something had shifted
between them. Richard's usualadmiration of the teenager had
turned to amusement. Just theday before Lewis had forgotten
to grease a call to Packer. Themistake resulted in a lecture

(01:31:50):
from Rufus one that wasdelivered in front of the child.
Now, Richard T's Lewis for theoversight.
This made me mad Louis wouldlater confessed to
investigators. I grabbed a clawhammer and hit him on the head
three or four times. I also hithim on the neck and over the

(01:32:12):
heart.
Mercer County Sheriff DwightRobin Bush told reporters that
Louis admitted to having donethe deed with the flat
expression, with no attempt atconcealing it.
After beating him to death witha hammer, Lewis stuffed Richards
body beneath some bales of strawin the grandfather's barn. He

(01:32:35):
then calmly stepped into thefarmer's car and drove away.
The family thought nothing ofthe boys his absence, as they
had planned to take a drive thatafternoon and had gained
permission to do so.
Louis would drive 40 miles southto the seat of the county where
he was born. There, he'd stoppedat the Greenville movie theater.

(01:32:58):
He'd catch a show, and thenspend the rest of the evening
dozing in the car while parkedin the theaters thought.
When the two hadn't returned tothe farm for several hours, the
family began to grow worried.
Fearing something awful, theytook to searching both
properties. The horrificdiscovery of Poor Richard's body
was made around 10pm That night,they knew Louis had done it.

(01:33:26):
Within minutes, law enforcementfrom around the region was on
the lookout for him. By the weesmall hours of the morning, on
July 4, Louis had awoken fromasleep. He spotted a patrol car
turning into the lot where hewas yet parked. And he turned on
the ignition. The engine roaredand he sped off.

(01:33:48):
He made it as far as the countyline that was soon run off the
road and then apprehendedwithout further incident. He
told the arresting officers thathe was on probation for auto
theft, and that he just killedthe son of the farmer he'd been
working for for the past fiveweeks.

(01:34:08):
Once in jail, Lewis told hisjailers that he'd done it and
that he didn't believe in cryingover spilled milk.
Weeks later, a jury would findhim guilty following the
testimony of multiple policeofficers who'd heard his
confession on the day of hisarrest. The jury recommended no
mercy in the sentencing.
Following their instruction.

(01:34:32):
Common Pleas Court Judge Raymondyounger, would swiftly sentence
him to death. In response, astoic Lewis would simply grin
and state that he had nothing tosay.
Get back in his cell he toutedto guards that he could quote
take whatever they could dishout.

(01:34:54):
He was the first ever personcondemned to death from Mercer
County.
Louis's execution was set forJanuary 15 1944. In the
intervening months, hisattorneys worked tirelessly to
save his life. He spent his timeon death row at the Ohio
penitentiary in Columbus pacingin his cell while reading.

(01:35:18):
prison guards said the boyseemed resigned to his fate, and
noted that he had embraced theCatholic faith. He stopped
talking to news reporters andreceived no visitors. That is
until one day on November 17,when his biological father and
stepmother came to see him.
Rain and hand had continuedliving in Ansonia all those

(01:35:41):
years. He had been employed bythe Big Four railroad crossing
as a watchman all that time, andhe hadn't regained custody of
his children.
Lewis's bio biological motherhad been missing for years. Her
whereabouts were neverdetermined.

(01:36:04):
With only three days to go onJanuary 12. Louis, his attorneys
would file a plea for clemencyfrom Ohio's Governor John
Bricker. It was quickly denied.
And the remaining days he wouldsee the prison chaplain father
Kelly, Lewis would memorize theact of contrition, a Catholic
prayer that begs God'sforgiveness. On the day of his

(01:36:27):
execution, he would repeat it ina loop. As the priest led him
from his cell into the deathchamber. His mumbled prayer
would never cease, as he wasstrapped into the chair, as his
sentence was read aloud, as hewas asked if he had any final
words.

(01:36:49):
Oh my God, I am heartedly sorryfor having offended thee. And I
detest all my sins, because Idread the loss of heaven, and
the pains of hell. But most ofall, because they offend the, my
God, who are all good anddeserving of all my love, I
firmly resolve with the help ofgrace, to confess my sins, to do

(01:37:14):
penance, and to amend my life.
Amen.
The sheriff, the prosecutor, andthree newspaper reporters
witnessed his final gruesomemoments, as it took seven
minutes and multiple shocks tokill him.

(01:37:37):
Is it possible that the Forlornspirit of Lewis hand remains
attached to the ghastly devicethat took his life?
Is his ghost one of the manythat have found refuge in the
looming structure?
Will we ever understand why thishistoric building seems to draw
souls both living and dead fromfar and wide?

(01:38:04):
When it was first built in 1886,the Ohio State Reformatory was a
transformative force in ourstate's penal system.
wrongdoers who were sent therewere viewed as people in need of
guidance and reform. With sometraining and rehabilitation, all
could be set straight. None werebeyond redemption. And for

(01:38:25):
decades, that attitudeprevailed. This stately
structure whose walls resemble agothic cathedral seem to elevate
the wayward souls withinthen came outward forces with
squelched the progressive mindedreforms.
By the early 20th century,offenders were sent to prisons

(01:38:46):
that were a little more thanwarehouses. Some would argue
this truth remains yet today.
reform efforts like those madeby the founders of the Ohio
State, reformatory got swallowedup by the tsunami of offenders
hardened by overcrowding.
By the time the Ohio StateReformatory was finally forcibly

(01:39:08):
closed in 1990, countlessoffenders had suffered trauma,
lost direction, and we're leftbeyond the reach of redemption.
The dark and heavy tail of Lewishand encapsulates this sad
truth. Had this young man beengiven the love protection and

(01:39:29):
support deserved by allchildren, it's hard to know what
other path he may have chosen.
As it turned out, the fates hesuffered as a child likely
contributed to the violent ragethat ended the life of an
innocent six year old.
When we fail to support the mostvulnerable among us, we're

(01:39:50):
complacent of the crimes, whichresults
if there's a lesson to begleaned from this legendary
location,It's an illustration of what
happens when we turn a blind eyeto the least among us, and let
our fellow humans flail andflounder. In the end, we all pay
the price.

(01:40:14):
Perhaps that's what the spiritsare trying to tell us.
Will we heed their messageThis concludes today's episode
on the Ohio State Reformatory. Ihope you've enjoyed it.
If so, please write a review onApple podcasts. It helps others

(01:40:35):
find the show. You can find Ohiofolklore at Ohio folklore.com
And on Facebook.
And as always, keep wondering

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