March 15, 2024 • 39 mins
In today's special episode, we’re redefining the conversation around mental health and I’m honored to host two remarkable individuals at the forefront of Tulsa's health landscape. Please welcome Bruce Dart, the visionary Executive Director of the Tulsa Health Department, and Adam Andreassen, the dedicated CEO of Family & Children’s Services.
Embark on a thought-provoking exploration of the intricate dance between physical and mental well-being. From the importance of holistic healthcare to the indispensable role of community partnerships, we'll leave no stone unturned.
But that's not all. We'll also delve into the pressing need for data modernization and robust workforce support in public health initiatives, essential components in addressing the evolving needs of our communities. And of course, we can't ignore the elephant in the room – the lingering stigma surrounding mental health. Throughout the episode, we'll confront this issue head-on.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to OK State of Mind, apodcast by Family and Children's
Services based in Tulsa,Oklahoma.
This podcast seeks to satisfyinquisitive minds eager to delve
into the realm of mental healthand overall well being.
Join us on a journey to gaininsights into the intricacies of
the human psyche, drawinginspiration from the stories of
resilience and hope.
(00:21):
Together, we'll unravel thefascinating science, the
invisibilia, that underpins ourbehaviors, shedding light on the
whys behind our behavior and ouroverall mental health.
Our goal is to empower, educate,and inspire you with actionable
insights that you canimmediately use in pursuing your
own mental well being.
In today's special episode,we're redefining the
(00:43):
conversation around mentalhealth, and I'm honored to host
two remarkable individuals inthe forefront of Tulsa's health
landscape.
Please welcome Bruce Dart, theexecutive director of the Tulsa
Health Department and AdamAndreassen, the CEO of Family
and Children's Services.
Today, we're going to embark onthe thought provoking
exploration of the intricatedance between physical and
(01:06):
mental well being.
From the importance of holistichealth care to the indispensable
role of community partnerships.
But that's not all.
We'll also delve into thepressing need for data
modernization and robustworkforce support in public
health initiatives And ofcourse, we can't ignore the
elephant in the room, thelingering stigma around mental
health.
Throughout the episode, we'llconfront this issue head on and
(01:28):
more.
I'm your host, Dee Harris, andwith that, welcome Adam and
welcome Bruce to OK State ofMind.
Well, thank you for having meand I'm honored to be here.
Well, we're thrilled to haveyou.
Can you just give me a littlebit of, your background where
you came from and how you cameto Tulsa?
You know, I'm a military brat Igrew up all over the world, so
I'm used to kind of moving.
so this is the third state thatI've actually worked in, and
(01:49):
fifth health department I'veworked, fourth one that I've
been the director of.
So, came here from Lincoln,Nebraska 13 years ago, fell in
love with Tulsa and really don'twant to be anyplace else.
Yeah, Tulsa's pretty sweet.
It is.
And then, Adam, I know you'renew to Tulsa, and how's that
feeling so far?
Three months in?
It's feeling good.
Three months, and in all theright ways, it feels like I've
(02:09):
been here longer.
Uh, you gotta be careful if yousay, I feel like I've been here
longer, because it could feellike it's stretched out.
But the people have beenfriendly, the restaurants are
great.
The roads are a work inprogress, but everything else is
great.
Yeah, well, that's true.
The roads are a work inprogress.
So, five local healthdepartments in three states.
What brought you to publichealth, generally speaking?
You know, I'll be honest, I justfell into it.
(02:31):
I was actually supposed to go toa dental school, and then that
summer I thought, you know, thisis not how I want to spend my
life.
So, I had to find a job.
And found one in the localhealth department in Omaha,
Nebraska, and it started off inthe laboratory, and I figured
out fairly quickly that thisisn't a job, this can actually
be career for me.
And the cool thing about publichealth is that there's so many
different professions under thatpublic health umbrella.
(02:53):
So I've done everything frombeing a microbiologist to health
inspector to epidemiologist.
It's been a fun career.
It's one of those things whereyou love coming to work every
day.
When were you in Omaha again?
How long ago?
Um, I start my career in Omahain 1980.
So high level health departmentwork What's the biggest
difference, all these yearslater, and what's about the
same?
You know, public health haschanged dramatically, and we're
(03:15):
definitely not The public of1980.
Back then, our big marketingstrategy was that we're the
invisible shield that protectsyour community.
And then we would wonder whyelected officials wouldn't give
us money because, you know, theycan't see us.
So we changed our strategies andwe are much more visible now, I
think.
I told my staff, after thepandemic, I've got good news for
you and bad news.
And the good news is thateverybody now knows about Tulsa
(03:38):
Health Department and the badnews is that everybody now knows
about Tulsa Health Department.
So it sets the bar high and wereally demand and ask for
excellence from our staff.
And you know we work hard, wehave fun doing it and hopefully
we're providing services thatpeople really engage in, and
it's helpful to them.
Is the biggest shift in healthdepartments, the one that just
happened in the pandemic?
(03:58):
Has that permanently changed theway health departments function
in community?
You know, we lost a lot ofpublic health professionals
during the pandemic.
So it's almost like as aprofession across this country,
we're starting over, and we'reredefining, I think, what our
goals and our objectives are.
So our foundational aspect ofpublic health really has not
changed.
We're here to serve those thatdon't have a voice and be the
(04:18):
voice for them.
But we're much more higherprofile now and we're really
getting engaged in areas thatpreviously had not been the
highest priority for us.
Like what?
Mental health.
For example.
So, and you know, public healthhas never really been in the
mental health space.
But we really saw the effect ofstress and mental health on
people during the pandemic.
(04:39):
We saw how it affected theirphysical health.
And we really saw theintersection of public health,
physical health and mentalhealth during that pandemic.
So it's an area that we're notproviders, we're not experts
like you are here at FamilyChildren's Services but we
realize that it's a space thatwe've got to somehow find a
foothold in and be a part of andhopefully help people engage
services.
And you're personally connectedto a mental health professional.
(05:01):
How has that changed things?
You know I've learned so much.
Dr.
Denise Dart.
So my wife's a clinicalpsychologist.
She's the director of behavioralhealth at Community Health
Connection.
And, has really opened my eyesto what need truly is.
You know, we look at data andsometimes we forget that data
means people.
And she's a psychologist.
She's all about people.
(05:22):
She's all about integratingmental health and health
services, and she's brought thatintegration model to me.
And so, we're very much focusedon how we can integrate all the
wonderful services in Tulsa andhave much more of a systemic
approach to both health andmental health issues here and if
we can do things through asystem level, I think it's
amazing what we could possiblyaccomplish.
I was excited to see the 2023strategic plan you released at
(05:45):
the end of the year, thatpriority number one was stress
and mental health.
I know that you just releasedthat recently.
What's happened since you've setthat as the top goal.
We really are engaging with themental health community.
We've had relationships before,but now we're trying to build
business partnerships andbusiness relationships And
really find out where our placeis in this field and not to push
(06:06):
anybody out, not to step on anytoes, but to acknowledge that
this is a huge problem, itrequires a collective response.
We're learning what stress doesto the body, but the whole
mental health issue, we'refairly new in and we have to
figure out really what's ourplace.
And we acknowledge that ourcommunity health improvement
plan was developed with the helpof about 90 community partners.
(06:28):
So it's very much a communityplan.
And they dictated what ourpriorities should be.
So there's a wideacknowledgement that we have
stress and mental health issueshere in Tulsa and Tulsa County.
And it's great to know thatthere's a collective initiative
to actually do something and bepart of something that hopefully
can be impactful.
So we're figuring out what thatis.
And we're buildingrelationships.
I'm so glad that Adam's here,the more relationships we build,
(06:51):
I think the more collaborativeresponse we can have because it
really takes a village.
And we found that out a longtime ago in public health that
we do nothing alone, we donothing in silos.
Everything happens throughcollaboration and partnerships,
and the partnership that we'reforming with Family and
Children's Services so far hasbeen fantastic.
And I've learned a lot justtalking to the staff here.
So, every day is a learningopportunity.
(07:12):
I'm not always having my bestday every day, but that's okay
because we're all human.
And that's, I think, the firstthing we learned through Looking
at these true mental healthissues that are impacting our
citizens here in Tulsa.
And I think there's so muchabout mental health, and I
appreciate the way you go aboutthis and are thinking about it.
I think maybe the pandemicdidn't cause this, but
accelerated that Usually when wethink about mental health, the
(07:34):
inclination is still to thinkdepression, anxiety, the
ailments.
But more and more, there's justso much more research and I
think it's starting to creepinto just general consciousness,
even if you don't have training,that mental well being affects
everything.
It affects how much you're ableto attend work.
It affects how well a communityfunctions.
It affects crime.
And it just seems like thatawareness that your overall
(07:56):
mental well being weighs oneverything, even if you don't
have a diagnosis or a concern.
It's just everywhere.
You know, and you're absolutelyright and it's a quality of life
issue.
As we really saw the impact ofWhat the pandemic did to
everybody throughout thiscountry, and of course, we all
know what happened here in Tulsaand Oklahoma and, you know, it's
time for us to stand up and sayso It seems like mental health
(08:19):
has always been kind of thequiet child in the corner.
Well, we found out that that'sthe last place it's got to be.
It's a big part of everyone'slife.
And, you know, we've seen a lotof data.
We see increases in youthsuicide We've seen poverty rates
go up.
And, you know, all that is, Ithink, mental health distress
contributes to that And sothere's lots of data we're
learning to look at and reallyquantify what quality of life is
(08:39):
and what wellness is.
You can't have mental healthwithout physical health and vice
versa.
We're acknowledging that We'relate to the table and we know
that but we're here now, and wewant to be part of the system
collective and the systempartnerships to hopefully help
people not be stigmatized, toseek these services, and to
acknowledge that, you know, I'mdepressed, or I've got issues,
or whatever and my quality oflife isn't where it should be,
(09:00):
so with these partnerships andthe help with organization like
yours, I think we can move thatneedle.
Well, I appreciate thestatement.
We're late to the table.
I don't think the healthdepartment is late to the table
I think as a society, this sortof aha moment is realizing all
this interconnectedness and thatwhen we underfund mental health
or anything connected to it, Weare really affecting everything.
(09:23):
I think that notion that thewhole thread is connected is
sort of a new notion not that itshould be, but it just seems
like the society is starting toacknowledge and even realize the
ways in which investing inmental well being is good
economic policy, is goodcommunity organization policy.
It's just good to make sure thatwe attend to these things.
You know, and I, so agree withyou, Adam, and, you're right.
(09:45):
It is a thread and everything isconnected.
We have to do a better job ofcreating a seamless mental
health and health system here inTulsa, here in Oklahoma, really
throughout this country.
We saw the public health systemkind of decimated.
We lost, I think 60, 000professionals during the
pandemic.
And a lot of that was because ofmental health people couldn't
handle the strain anymore.
And they left.
(10:06):
And I think we've all seen thatand that's happened with
multiple professions and we knowthat, let's just be honest, the
mental health system isunderfunded.
You know, we need practitioners.
We need to increase access andwe need to acknowledge that, we
all need help at times.
And that was very clear duringthe pandemic.
And, you know, I had a lot ofquestions about how we took care
of our staff and frankly, I wasfocused on the public and I
(10:27):
wasn't near as focused on ourstaff as I should have been and
I learned a hard lesson aboutreally it starts at home and in
this case home was Tulsa HealthDepartment and so we do much
more now to actually support ourstaff and we've learned from
like minded professionals likeyou and you know if our staff
aren't healthy and productive,it's a community that suffers,
so we have to take care of ourstaff before we can take care of
(10:50):
the community.
Well, that makes so much sense.
You mentioned in an article backin 2020 that really it was your
team's sacrifices that made allthe difference.
And, I'm glad to hear that youare still recognizing how
important your staff is to theagendas you're trying to push
forward.
You know, they're our humancapital, and they're our
greatest asset, they truly are.
(11:10):
And without them and theirdedication, we wouldn't have
gotten through the pandemic aswell as we actually did.
So, you know, I salute them, Iadmire them, I respect them, I
absolutely love them.
And, it's our responsibility tomake sure that they have the
ability to be their best everyday.
And that's on us.
You know, one thing I findreally interesting, the pandemic
really propelled so many issuesso quickly, fast forward.
(11:33):
Telehealth was one, you know,telehealth was kind of this
Sleeping little anomaly that nota lot of people are doing and
then now it's so much more inthe forefront.
And You were saying you're lateto the table.
No, not really I mean mentalhealth is now certainly
realizing how physical healthcare and all of those elements
make whole person care.
And so it's nice to hear it froma public health perspective as
well.
But, you know, what do you seeas a priority focus over the
(11:56):
next few years?
What are some trends that arehappening in this space?
Do you have any projectionsabout where things might be
headed?
You know, you talk abouttelehealth.
I mean, we're really focused ondata modernization now.
I mean we have to be in it.
We've got to be interoperable.
Right.
And we're not, you know, so wehave all these different silos
of systems, we can't even talkto each other.
We got a wonderful grant fromthe CDC, a public health
(12:17):
infrastructure grant and part ofthat is to modernize our data
platforms our data capacity andcapability, but it can't just be
with us.
We have to intersect all thesedifferent systems and it takes
funding to do that, but I thinkwe're starting to climb that
mountain in the workforce.
We lost so many professionalsduring the pandemic.
So part of that grant was toactually attract and attain our
(12:38):
brand new public healthworkforce we need to provide the
tools for our staff to besuccessful, help them grow
professionally.
And it really help themunderstand what public health
truly is.
So, you know we use old systemsand antiquated systems and
everything's got to be steppedup.
We've got to improve our abilityto communicate, our ability to
engage, and it takes funding todo that, but it also takes, the
(12:59):
data systems that will help usget there.
So I see data modernization isnumber one, our workforce as
number two and then reallyacknowledge having the ability
to intersect with organizationslike, for example My Health,
which is a health informationexchange, which has tremendous
data and data capacity.
We don't have to be the lonedata aggregator in this county.
(13:21):
So identifying those otherpartners who also possess these
amazing influences that we canwork with and understand that,
you know, it is a system, it'snot just us.
So when I look at Tulsa or anyother community The health
department needs to help assurethat these outcomes occur, but
of course you open your toolbox,and the toolbox is community
partners, community agencies.
(13:41):
There's probably not a lot ofthings that you say, well, we do
that ourselves, but you've gota, sort of, align and organize
all the other Entities andpartners.
What is the hardest part?
And what is the part that is,you know, gives you the most
optimism about getting acommunity organized around
things while knowing that Ourorganization has our strategic
(14:02):
priorities and this organizationhas that.
How do you weave that alltogether knowing that not all
priorities are aligned even ifthey're at least somewhat
harmonious?
I learned that early in Tulsa.
Just pick up the phone.
I was told when I got here thatHow analog of you.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, when I movedhere, I was told I could never
get the health system in thesame room together.
(14:22):
I could never get OU and OSU inthe same room together.
You know, when you're new andyou're going through the
honeymoon period, just pick upthe phone.
And it's amazing who comes tothe table.
And we acknowledge thateveryone's got their goals and
objectives, but the goals andobjectives are, not really
what's their bottom line, butthe community's bottom line of
improving health, both physicalhealth and mental health.
(14:42):
And I'll give you an example.
Back when the Affordable CareAct Marketplace opened up.
We were told that nobody wouldsign up for that in Oklahoma.
Nobody would sign up in Tulsa.
And so we put out a call to allof our community partners.
We got everybody in room and wecreated this function we called
the Marketplace Monday.
Where we opened up four sitesacross Tulsa County.
(15:03):
We signed up 800 people that dayfor health care, health
insurance.
Many of them had never hadhealth insurance before.
And the stigma just behindhealth insurance was amazing.
I saw a gentleman who walked up,had never had health insurance
in his life.
There were TV cameras outsidebecause it was a media event.
And he put his shirt over hisface.
Because he didn't want to berecognized.
(15:24):
And I talked to him afterwards.
He's ashamed both of, I thinkaccessing the ACA and not having
his health insurance and he sureas hell, excuse me, he sure as
heck didn't want to, you can sayhell here, himself on TV.
So.
You know, there's so much stigmathat we've got to get past, and
we have stigma around healthinsurance.
Imagine the stigma aroundseeking mental health services.
Well, exactly.
That was just going to go there,the stigma.
(15:45):
And, you know, connecting mentalhealth and physical health, I
think, is a really key componentof breaking down that stigma.
But how do you feel publiceducation about that needs to be
propelled in Tulsa?
You know, we work very closelywith many school systems here.
Matter of fact we have a schoolhealth education program in the
health department, and we 67,000 students just last year.
So education is huge.
(16:07):
And it starts with that.
It starts with health literacy.
Both mental health and physicalhealth literacy.
Because people, for example,when we signed up people for
health insurance, they never hadit.
They never had co pays.
They never had insurancepremiums.
They didn't understand how toget their scripts.
So health literacy is huge,education is a big part of that.
And, you know, we always saythat education is a great
equalizer.
Well, we're finding out thateven if you're educated, there's
(16:28):
still structural and systemicbarriers to achieving the
highest level quality of lifeand achieving your greatest
possibility.
But it starts with education.
With education, we can breakdown those barriers, but we've
got to get everyone to see theproblem.
And that for us, I think that'sthe biggest issue because
there's differentinterpretations of what the
goals and vectors should be,there are different
interpretations of what theissues truly are.
(16:49):
And we've got to come together.
At least with health departmentI think we're considered a safe
partner.
We can convene groups and peoplearen't afraid to come and talk
to us That was, I think ourbiggest asset during pandemic
was that we were able to reallybe part of this great
partnership.
And we responded as a whole and,thank goodness for all of our
partners because we wouldn'thave made it through without
(17:09):
everybody engaging and doingtheir best to serve.
So the health department,everything I have heard about
you coming in, both youpersonally and the health
department is, it's amazing theamount of trust that you were
able to maintain in such apoliticized and anxiety
provoking period like thepandemic.
The health department, I think,retains so much of that trusted
(17:30):
partner, which allows it to be acenter table for so many of the
important conversations.
I saw the same thing in Missouriduring that time in a different
way.
But again, the health departmentbeing that trusted center, but
it's such a flash pan wherethere is no topic anymore that
isn't politicized, right?
There's nothing.
Mental health, health care.
You know, if I came to you andsaid nice day outside, I'm sure
(17:53):
that would be a verycontroversial statement to some.
And so, how do you nowexperience the day to day?
Is it as politicized as it was?
Have the waters receded a littlebit?
And how do you maintain thattrusted partner or trusted
convener status?
Within a world in which there'sno such thing as a safe
statement.
You know, I I think thetemperature has ramped down a
(18:13):
little bit But you're right Adamand being honest everything's
political these days, especiallywe're Coming up on I think a
pretty divisive election yearand we're aware of that and you
know I don't pay a whole lot ofattention to that, to be
perfectly honest.
We have our mission and ourvision, and we've gotta bring
our best every day to serve.
So, you know, we hope wemaintain the trust that I think
(18:34):
we built during the pandemic,but we work every day to do what
we say we're gonna do.
That's how we can keep trust.
If we're not sincere.
And we don't actually do what wesay we're going to do, then,
people will walk away.
And nobody can afford to havethe system fragmented like that.
So, I don't worry about thepolitics.
People have their thoughts andthey're welcome to them.
We all have them.
(18:55):
But, we're here to do a veryspecific thing and do it in
collaboration with greatcommunity partners.
And we don't let anything get infront of us.
So, as it relates to mentalhealth, Dee, again, the
priorities from the strategicplan from 2023, can you read
those back to me?
Priority number one was stressand mental health.
So when you look at that and yousay, okay, reducing stress and
(19:15):
increasing mental health, isthat the basic idea of the
strategic priority.
You know, it really is.
And so we're learning how to dothat with all of our great
partners because we don'tactually do that work and we
don't work in that space.
But we have great partners whodo.
And so if we can convince themto let us be a part of what they
do and who they are, it not onlyhelps us learn, but it helps us
(19:36):
position ourselves that we canbring assets to the table and
can bring influence.
And hopefully be a part of thesolution as opposed to being
ignorant of it, which is for us,I think, our biggest failure in
the past.
So what are the biggest thingsin that, you know, so again, you
set the priority, which I thinkis a good priority, and that's a
reflection of communitysensitivities and preferences.
But whether it is an agency likeFamily and Children's or whether
(19:58):
it's just a citizen or afoundation What are the ways
that you see are most important,but maybe not most obvious that
we step in and help?
You know and that's a reallygood question.
We already talked about thestigma a little bit and and I
think you make it reallycomfortable for people to step
up and step into the issue, butYou know, we don't have a true
(20:20):
mental health system here inOklahoma.
And we don't have enough mentalhealth providers enough primary
care providers.
So, you know, Oklahoma, we know,has a lot of needs.
And I think we have to be honestabout that.
And not only address the issues,but address the foundational
issues.
if we don't have providers, howcan we serve our public.
So, you know, we have to dosomething to get providers here,
(20:41):
to attract them, to keep them,to pay them.
and I think that takes thewhole, it takes the entire
state, takes the legislature,takes the governor, takes all of
our elected officials.
Because, you know, we're allserving the same jurisdictions,
the same communities, and if wedon't provide the resources,
we're not gonna have a system.
And we know that without asystem, Whether it be fiscal
health, mental health, publichealth, whatever, there's too
(21:03):
many holes and people fallthrough the cracks.
And they deserve better.
How will you know,, from yourposition, you've got that
strategic priority?
How will you know when wecollectively are making progress
on that?
So we're working with ourpartners now to actually create
a data dashboard that we canmeasure our priorities our goals
and objectives within thosepriorities To see if we are
actually being impactful andmore importantly to evaluate
(21:26):
what we're doing you know, wetry to evaluate everything we do
because If we're not meeting ourgoals and objectives, we need to
modify, we need to changedirection and pivot.
We monitor our data veryclosely.
So we're in the process ofbuilding that dashboard so we
can really see what are wedoing, how well are we doing it,
how well are we engaging ourpartners, and are we being
impactful or are we not?
And do we need to pivot or do wejust keep going?
(21:47):
And so it's just, being awareand serious about the data of
people.
And acknowledging that andfollowing that, but constructing
the right dashboard andaggregating the right data.
And that's where we need help,like, from partners like you,
Adam, because, you know, it'snot our area of expertise.
But we go to people like you andask, what is the data that we
should be monitoring, should becollecting, and should be
(22:08):
evaluating, and that's Reallywe're at right now.
So Tulsa is so unique and I'mstill learning so much about it
The ways in which You've got acity and a county very overlaid
on to each other but then youalso have so many tribes that
are here and you have so manypeople groups and it to me is
just full of energy and dynamicopportunity, but as a health
(22:28):
department with all theseoverlays How do you work with
all of these different entities?
How does the health departmentweave into all of that that goes
beyond the foundations and theagencies to Just all the
different people in one area,you know And we recognize that
everybody has different goalsand objectives But the end point
is really the same and that's tohelp people reach their greatest
(22:49):
possibility.
So we connect where we can helpthem reach that and we connect
where they can help us reach ourgoals there, too because You
know, we have greatrelationships with the tribes.
We have, great relationshipswith the various non profits and
healthcare systems who, by theway, during pandemic, the
healthcare systems were theheroes here, bottom line, and we
wouldn't have gotten anywherewithout them.
So, you know, it's knowing yourpartners, but also knowing how
(23:12):
you can help them reach theirgoals as well.
We can't keep going into theseconversations.
Asking for things.
We have to give back as well.
And so we try and find thatcommon ground where we're
mutually beneficial and we're,not only asking, but we're
giving as well.
And I think if we can do thatand help everyone achieve their
goals, we can create thattapestry of partnerships that is
(23:33):
seamless.
And you're right, Tulsa is socool.
It's got great energy and it'sgot everything that we love to
do, what my wife and I love todo here.
So it's a community worthfighting for.
And I think we have people wholove this city, love this
county, and want to be part ofthe solution.
And it doesn't always have to beorganizations, it can be
individuals.
I mean, like minded people,activists, who are really active
(23:55):
in improving communitystandards.
And we're learning that, youknow, we don't just go to our
partners.
We also have got to meet peoplewhere they are.
And we're figuring out from themental health perspective, how
do we meet people in theirneighborhoods where they're at
so that access isn't an issueand they can feel connected.
Because I think once people feelconnected, it's the first step
towards reaching their greatestpossibility.
(24:17):
Wow, that's good stuff.
It is.
You talked a little bit aboutlocal trends earlier.
The pandemic, like you said, wassomething we never expected to
happen.
Is there anything on thehorizon?
I know we're in the middle ofthis opioid epidemic.
We have some issues with that,which is very much of a physical
and a mental health connection.
Do you see any other trends thatwe should be just keeping our
(24:37):
eye on that may blow up?
Well, you're absolutely rightabout the opioid issue and we
are looking at solutions tothat, and at least funding to,
because there's not enoughsubstance abuse providers here
as well.
And so if you talk about allthese issues, way too much comes
back to a provider ratio issue.
and that's, I think, unless westart lowering that provider
(24:59):
ratio number, and have moreproviders per capita, we're
still going to continue to becircling the drain and spinning
our wheels, which we can't.
And I have no idea what issuesare for us that are non issues,
but seem to be political issues.
Right.
And we'll see what comes downthe pike.
Cause I'm always surprised aboutwhat people consider issues that
for us, they truly are not.
(25:20):
And, you know, we talk about,equality.
I mean everybody should have theability.
to live, work, and play in thesame area and have the ability
to have the same, lifeexpectancy, you know, and people
are afraid to talk aboutequality and equity and health
disparity.
And we have to talk about thesethings, because it's a reality.
And if we don't, how are wegoing to solve these problems?
So, it's identifying the issuesfirst and standing up and
(25:43):
calling it out and not letting,I think elected officials who
have other goals and objectivesstop us from doing that.
So, you know, we've got to workwith our elected officials.
For example, all the electedofficials in Tulsa County during
pandemic were wonderful to workwith, you know, and we wouldn't
have also been so successful.
Our, Tulsa mayor who, you know,was in an election here and
followed the science and Godbless him, you know, so we have
(26:05):
a lot of courageous, electedofficials here as well.
They help us also identify theseissues, but.
We've got to do the hard stuffand we have talked about the
hard stuff and right now thehard stuff is all around health
disparity, equality, racism,those social determinants of
health that really are impactingpeople across the spectrum and
we have to call it and saythat's an issue and we're seeing
more and more of these socialdeterminants that are impacting
(26:27):
health on a broad, spectrum andif we don't start identifying it
and coming together around it.
These, social determinants arenever gonna go away, right?
And everybody deserves,regardless of where they're born
in Tulsa County, they deserveequal opportunity to reach their
greatest possibilities in life.
And we have to identify thosedeterminants that prevent that.
So I'm gonna step into it, andyou don't have to follow me
(26:48):
here, but, I'm gonna step intoit and maybe regret it later.
But, you know.
I think it's so important thatmental health stays as non
political as possible becauseright now, Republicans,
Democrats, whole spectrum,everybody agrees on mental
health.
But I've seen in recent years,especially as election cycles
come around that as the rhetoricramps up, it gets harder and
harder to stay out of it andkeep it depoliticized, even when
(27:11):
you know if you step into it,you speak up too much, it could
affect funding, it could affectso many other things.
And yet, there are some areaswhere there is so much science
around the importance of equityand the importance of if they
don't trust you, they won't comein to get care.
I don't even know the answer,but I think it is a really
important thing that in theinterest of staying apolitical,
(27:34):
we don't fail to speak up onthings that really matter where
the science of well being is in,we've gotta Speak up, but it
does create quite a tightrope.
I know for mental health But Iwould expect for the health
department as well and how youStay out of the political waters
while still speaking up for thethings where there's the science
there and there's the outcomesthere And we have to speak for
people's well being, You'reright and it's not easy And it's
(27:57):
something I think that wenavigated as well as we possibly
could during pandemic because itwas our goal to run a public
health response And not getmisdirected.
You're absolutely right.
Sometimes when things becomepolitical, we know it's very
difficult, but you can't stepback from that and you've got to
step into it.
I think we did that during thepandemic and it cost us in some,
(28:17):
in some cost you?
What are some ways it cost you?
Well, you know, there was somelegislation early on and now
we're seeing all over thecountry.
We're seeing legislation that,for example, will prevent us
from, having mask mandates orvaccine mandates.
And we're seeing all thesepublic health laws now, or anti
public health laws that arecoming to legislatures all
across the country.
So when I talk about steppinginto them, that's everywhere.
(28:38):
It's not just in Oklahoma.
And, you know, I would love itif we could talk to elected
officials in a way where we're,doing our best.
In these extreme circumstances,would I ever want to do a mask
mandate again?
No.
You know, because adults areadults and they should make
their own decisions, butchildren can't.
So there's so many variablesthat go into some of these
decisions that we made duringpandemic that, are costing us
(29:00):
now.
And, you know, I don't want tosee regulations or laws come out
that prevent us from doing thejobs that we need to do,
especially in times of crisis.
So, we're actually nationally,we're monitoring all like the
anti public health legislationthat's going on in states all
over the country, because weknow eventually we're going to
have to step up into that.
And as it relates to health careand mental health, I feel like
so many of these things, thetakeaways are not about whether
(29:23):
we were right or wrong on somethings.
We were wrong on some things.
Oh yeah.
The science wasn't in and wewere trying to get it as fast as
we could.
Oh yeah.
And yet, the takeaway too oftenis not, well, we had good
science, but that science as itgot better, then we got better.
I feel like so often thetakeaway is We'll see now you
can't trust science and so thenthat sort of pulls us back to a
direction where we can'tactually trust a health
(29:45):
department or a mental healthprofessional or others.
with information when reallythat scientific process is
supposed to constantly give usnew information so we can pivot
more.
And I think we have to do abetter job of communicating just
that because we knew during thepandemic it changed almost every
day.
So our messaging changed everyday so I could understand why
everybody was confused.
Heck, we were confused.
(30:06):
What new thing are we going tolearn today?
And to stand up and have somecredibility and constantly
saying, well, I was wrongyesterday.
Here's the news, the newsinformation today.
Of course, that's createdissues.
And I can understand why peoplewouldn't trust that.
You know, but But you'reabsolutely right.
That's what science is andscience changes.
It's progressive and so it goesin multiple directions all at
once and We have to learn how toreally communicate that in a
(30:29):
more effective way I think thoseare things that that we're
working on doing things likethis I think it really helps but
we've got to get people to trustscience and scientists aren't
perfect, human beings makemistakes and we have to
acknowledge that as well becausewe acknowledge when we were
wrong But we were wrong based onthe science of that day, and
communicating that is justdifficult.
So I think most people dounderstand that.
(30:50):
Even when I talked to a lot oflawmakers, there's always
pressure that lawmakers on bothsides feel to stay in line with
a, party stance or a perceivedparty stance, and yet when I
talked to a lot of themindividually, I think most of
the people I talk to understandthese things.
And I wish I would take my ownmemo more as a parent, but All
the research says the parentswho can say I was wrong to their
(31:12):
kids generate more credibilityand trust with them than the
ones who are never wrong.
And I think that the generalpublic does tend to understand
those things, but I think it's aconstant challenge to navigate
that when there's so many thingstrying to chip away at that
credibility.
You know, it is.
And so we just focus on tryingto do the right thing based on
the information we have andsaying so.
(31:33):
You know, and also acknowledgingthat this might be different in
the future, but here's what weknow today and That's what we
try to do during pandemic andyou're right I mean many
lawmakers understood that and Iappreciate their support and
they're constrained by partypolitics and we understand that
as well And that's just thenature of the beast.
But we can work within thatbecause mental health public
health It's a political it trulyis it's serving people We talk
(31:55):
about infectious disease, theydon't care what political party
you're in, so we don't careeither.
You know, we want to find, waysto communicate, ways to partner.
For example, the state healthcommissioner Keith Reed, we have
a great relationship.
with the state health departmentand with Keith.
And we worked very hard to buildthat relationship.
And, he's in a difficultposition because he's a
political appointee.
But he does a tremendous job ofdoing public health in Oklahoma.
(32:18):
And that's all we're trying todo here in Tulsa County.
You know, and at the end of theday, it's, we all want the same
thing.
We want a great quality of life,great physical health, great
mental health, those types ofthings.
So, getting past the barriersof, I was wrong yesterday, or I
was wrong today, or I don't likeyour political agenda.
I think we all feel the same,that we want a good quality of
life here in Tulsa.
(32:38):
What are you most optimisticabout when you look forward,
especially on the mental healthside, you say these are the
things I think we will eitherimprove on or already improving
on the fastest?
You know, I think just theattention to mental health
issues that you know, we didn'thave Three, four, five years
ago, you know, it's in theforefront now, because the
pandemic affected everybody andaffect people in different ways,
(33:00):
but it really brought mentalhealth to the forefront.
Like I've never seen it before.
And so it's an opportunity formental health, I think, to
really be in their strongestsetting.
and more foundational thanthey've ever been.
So I'm excited about thosepossibilities and the
recognition that this is acommunity need and part of
quality of life.
I've heard lawmakers say thatthe government has
(33:22):
responsibility for quality oflife and I love it.
When I hear that, you know, andit's acknowledgement that that's
why they're there to serve and,and to know now that we can talk
about mental health issues andwhat it does and how we can
actually have solutions andcreate a system and resources to
help people.
We didn't have thoseconversations three, four, five
years ago.
We're having them now.
(33:42):
and I'm sure it's a little latein the game, but hey, we're
getting started.
And I think it's going to takeus to a great place that we've
never been before.
So you started in the healthdepartment work in the early 80s
when you were 13.
Yeah.
And now, you've seen ittransform a lot.
You described earlier the waysin which it's changing.
(34:03):
You know, in another 20 yearswhen you're still in the field.
What do you predict?
Where are we sailing as far ashow health departments interact
within the community and what,what will be next and how it all
works?
When you talk to citizens orresidents of communities, and
you ask them what's reallyimportant in their community and
they, always say things likepolice and fire and health
systems.
20 years, they're going to saypublic health.
(34:24):
And they're going to say mentalhealth, and which they don't say
today, but that's going tochange because of the work we're
doing, the fact that we'revisible, and we're doing it
collectively with all of ourpartners, and people I think
will acknowledge that they needmental health and public health
services in their life everyday, and I think we'll do a
better job of, Convincing peoplehow we touch them every day,
even when they don't see us.
(34:44):
Because we provide services thataffect the community as a whole.
And they might not see us doingit, but because we're doing it,
they're safe.
And, now we add mental health tothat mix, people aren't afraid
of walking in the door.
And it doesn't matter whatneighbor thinks.
And so that, I think for us,that's gonna be the biggest
change.
This is almost a philosophical,it's, it's paradigm shift where,
(35:05):
you know, we are now out in theforefront and citizens recognize
that they need services fromorganizations like ours and they
welcome it.
So, Hopefully it won't take 20years, but I think that's the
direction we hope to go.
I love that vision, and I soappreciate everything about
this.
I know we didn't get to some ofthe fun stuff, and I wonder if
we get to some, some, uh, thiswas all fun, but, uh, some stuff
(35:26):
about, some stuff about Bruce,it's time to grill Bruce.
Yeah, so, we've talked a lotabout physical health, mental
health, how they're connected.
So.
Um, on the weekends, how do youtake care of your own physical
and mental health?
What do you do for fun?
You know, my, my mental healthtime is spent on my bike, um, or
in the pool.
I'm right there with you.
Yeah, or in the pool swimming.
I used to be an Ironman until mybody got too rusty.
(35:47):
So now I, I can't run anymore,but I, I still swim and bike and
I'm on the Tulsa Masters swimteam and I bike and, you know,
and I go to biking events.
Like I love Tulsa Cuff.
My favorite event of the year isTulsa Tough.
I bike in it.
What is Tulsa Tough?
It's, a three day bikeextravaganza.
Oh, Adam, we'll have to go.
Oh, you'll love it, Adam.
You will love it.
I will be glad to watch that.
(36:07):
Where, where pros come in andjust normal people like me just
go ride.
And pros come in and do, docrits and, and we have road
races, and it's just an amazingthree day event, and it's become
huge, we have people from allover the country coming here,
and all over the world as well,and you'll, you'll love it when
you see it.
It gets a little crazy at nighton Sunday, but it, talk about
(36:29):
stress reliever, you know.
Yeah, exactly.
But my wife Denise, she, shebikes as well, so she'll bike
with me, and she doesn't mind ifI, you know, leave her and I'll
come back, you know, so.
That's what my husband does.
Yeah, she, I, I meet her back inthe car.
You know.
It's like, just come back andloop me.
But, but, you know, it just,it's things that, that we do
together, and it relieves mystress.
You can get those endorphinsgoing.
Absolutely.
And you don't, you don't feelthe stress, and that's what got
(36:51):
me through the pandemic, and,you know, it's how I live my
life, all my life, because I wasa, um, athlete in college, and,
I have always worked out andtried to stay in shape, and, and
that continues to this day.
Well, it's a true mark thatphysical health and mental
health are connected and there'sthings that we can do every
single day and what you're doingevery single day is making a
difference and I'm thrilled toknow that all these partnerships
(37:13):
are developing and that thestigmas are breaking down on
both sides of the table.
Yeah, thank you so much forjoining.
you and I and a few others havehad lunch a few times and I
realized early on in that firstvisit, that this is a
conversation I wanted to havebecause I just think certainly
you were the right person to bea celebrity during the pandemic
because you didn't want to be.
No.
Never again.
Never again.
And I remember the look on yourface when I said I wanted to
(37:35):
talk about some of that heretoday.
But I appreciate you coming into have the conversation because
I think the best people forthese times are the people who
would step in like you did andwill, fight even when it costs
you some of your sense of wellbeing and your team's sense of
well being.
You sacrificed for us then.
We appreciate that and we wantto make sure that both as an
agency and as a community wecontinue to lift you and your
(37:55):
team up.
Thank you for what you and yourteam are doing.
And, we look forward to havingyou on here again.
You know, I really appreciatethat, Adam.
And, once again, I wassurrounded by great people and
great partners and it was thatcollective response that made it
all happen.
So, you know, I hire smartpeople and I get out of the way.
And hopefully, our partners arethe same way they just let us do
(38:16):
what we do.
And so, collectively, we madeit.
And hopefully we can take thatmomentum and do great work in
the future.
Absolutely.
And I'll see you on the biketrail.
All right.
I'll be there.
Very good.
Thank you.
Thank you for tuning in.
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(38:38):
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(39:00):
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(39:21):
Until next time
Welcome to OK State of Mind, apodcast by Family and Children's
Services based in Tulsa,Oklahoma.
This podcast seeks to satisfyinquisitive minds eager to delve
into the realm of mental healthand overall well being.
Join us on a journey to gaininsights into the intricacies of
the human psyche, drawinginspiration from the stories of
resilience and hope.
(00:21):
Together, we'll unravel thefascinating science, the
invisibilia, that underpins ourbehaviors, shedding light on the
whys behind our behavior and ouroverall mental health.
Our goal is to empower, educate,and inspire you with actionable
insights that you canimmediately use in pursuing your
own mental well being.
In today's special episode,we're redefining the
(00:43):
conversation around mentalhealth, and I'm honored to host
two remarkable individuals inthe forefront of Tulsa's health
landscape.
Please welcome Bruce Dart, theexecutive director of the Tulsa
Health Department and AdamAndreassen, the CEO of Family
and Children's Services.
Today, we're going to embark onthe thought provoking
exploration of the intricatedance between physical and
(01:06):
mental well being.
From the importance of holistichealth care to the indispensable
role of community partnerships.
But that's not all.
We'll also delve into thepressing need for data
modernization and robustworkforce support in public
health initiatives And ofcourse, we can't ignore the
elephant in the room, thelingering stigma around mental
health.
Throughout the episode, we'llconfront this issue head on and
(01:28):
more.
I'm your host, Dee Harris, andwith that, welcome Adam and
welcome Bruce to OK State ofMind.
Well, thank you for having meand I'm honored to be here.
Well, we're thrilled to haveyou.
Can you just give me a littlebit of, your background where
you came from and how you cameto Tulsa?
You know, I'm a military brat Igrew up all over the world, so
I'm used to kind of moving.
so this is the third state thatI've actually worked in, and
(01:49):
fifth health department I'veworked, fourth one that I've
been the director of.
So, came here from Lincoln,Nebraska 13 years ago, fell in
love with Tulsa and really don'twant to be anyplace else.
Yeah, Tulsa's pretty sweet.
It is.
And then, Adam, I know you'renew to Tulsa, and how's that
feeling so far?
Three months in?
It's feeling good.
Three months, and in all theright ways, it feels like I've
(02:09):
been here longer.
Uh, you gotta be careful if yousay, I feel like I've been here
longer, because it could feellike it's stretched out.
But the people have beenfriendly, the restaurants are
great.
The roads are a work inprogress, but everything else is
great.
Yeah, well, that's true.
The roads are a work inprogress.
So, five local healthdepartments in three states.
What brought you to publichealth, generally speaking?
You know, I'll be honest, I justfell into it.
(02:31):
I was actually supposed to go toa dental school, and then that
summer I thought, you know, thisis not how I want to spend my
life.
So, I had to find a job.
And found one in the localhealth department in Omaha,
Nebraska, and it started off inthe laboratory, and I figured
out fairly quickly that thisisn't a job, this can actually
be career for me.
And the cool thing about publichealth is that there's so many
different professions under thatpublic health umbrella.
(02:53):
So I've done everything frombeing a microbiologist to health
inspector to epidemiologist.
It's been a fun career.
It's one of those things whereyou love coming to work every
day.
When were you in Omaha again?
How long ago?
Um, I start my career in Omahain 1980.
So high level health departmentwork What's the biggest
difference, all these yearslater, and what's about the
same?
You know, public health haschanged dramatically, and we're
(03:15):
definitely not The public of1980.
Back then, our big marketingstrategy was that we're the
invisible shield that protectsyour community.
And then we would wonder whyelected officials wouldn't give
us money because, you know, theycan't see us.
So we changed our strategies andwe are much more visible now, I
think.
I told my staff, after thepandemic, I've got good news for
you and bad news.
And the good news is thateverybody now knows about Tulsa
(03:38):
Health Department and the badnews is that everybody now knows
about Tulsa Health Department.
So it sets the bar high and wereally demand and ask for
excellence from our staff.
And you know we work hard, wehave fun doing it and hopefully
we're providing services thatpeople really engage in, and
it's helpful to them.
Is the biggest shift in healthdepartments, the one that just
happened in the pandemic?
(03:58):
Has that permanently changed theway health departments function
in community?
You know, we lost a lot ofpublic health professionals
during the pandemic.
So it's almost like as aprofession across this country,
we're starting over, and we'reredefining, I think, what our
goals and our objectives are.
So our foundational aspect ofpublic health really has not
changed.
We're here to serve those thatdon't have a voice and be the
(04:18):
voice for them.
But we're much more higherprofile now and we're really
getting engaged in areas thatpreviously had not been the
highest priority for us.
Like what?
Mental health.
For example.
So, and you know, public healthhas never really been in the
mental health space.
But we really saw the effect ofstress and mental health on
people during the pandemic.
(04:39):
We saw how it affected theirphysical health.
And we really saw theintersection of public health,
physical health and mentalhealth during that pandemic.
So it's an area that we're notproviders, we're not experts
like you are here at FamilyChildren's Services but we
realize that it's a space thatwe've got to somehow find a
foothold in and be a part of andhopefully help people engage
services.
And you're personally connectedto a mental health professional.
(05:01):
How has that changed things?
You know I've learned so much.
Dr.
Denise Dart.
So my wife's a clinicalpsychologist.
She's the director of behavioralhealth at Community Health
Connection.
And, has really opened my eyesto what need truly is.
You know, we look at data andsometimes we forget that data
means people.
And she's a psychologist.
She's all about people.
(05:22):
She's all about integratingmental health and health
services, and she's brought thatintegration model to me.
And so, we're very much focusedon how we can integrate all the
wonderful services in Tulsa andhave much more of a systemic
approach to both health andmental health issues here and if
we can do things through asystem level, I think it's
amazing what we could possiblyaccomplish.
I was excited to see the 2023strategic plan you released at
(05:45):
the end of the year, thatpriority number one was stress
and mental health.
I know that you just releasedthat recently.
What's happened since you've setthat as the top goal.
We really are engaging with themental health community.
We've had relationships before,but now we're trying to build
business partnerships andbusiness relationships And
really find out where our placeis in this field and not to push
(06:06):
anybody out, not to step on anytoes, but to acknowledge that
this is a huge problem, itrequires a collective response.
We're learning what stress doesto the body, but the whole
mental health issue, we'refairly new in and we have to
figure out really what's ourplace.
And we acknowledge that ourcommunity health improvement
plan was developed with the helpof about 90 community partners.
(06:28):
So it's very much a communityplan.
And they dictated what ourpriorities should be.
So there's a wideacknowledgement that we have
stress and mental health issueshere in Tulsa and Tulsa County.
And it's great to know thatthere's a collective initiative
to actually do something and bepart of something that hopefully
can be impactful.
So we're figuring out what thatis.
And we're buildingrelationships.
I'm so glad that Adam's here,the more relationships we build,
(06:51):
I think the more collaborativeresponse we can have because it
really takes a village.
And we found that out a longtime ago in public health that
we do nothing alone, we donothing in silos.
Everything happens throughcollaboration and partnerships,
and the partnership that we'reforming with Family and
Children's Services so far hasbeen fantastic.
And I've learned a lot justtalking to the staff here.
So, every day is a learningopportunity.
(07:12):
I'm not always having my bestday every day, but that's okay
because we're all human.
And that's, I think, the firstthing we learned through Looking
at these true mental healthissues that are impacting our
citizens here in Tulsa.
And I think there's so muchabout mental health, and I
appreciate the way you go aboutthis and are thinking about it.
I think maybe the pandemicdidn't cause this, but
accelerated that Usually when wethink about mental health, the
(07:34):
inclination is still to thinkdepression, anxiety, the
ailments.
But more and more, there's justso much more research and I
think it's starting to creepinto just general consciousness,
even if you don't have training,that mental well being affects
everything.
It affects how much you're ableto attend work.
It affects how well a communityfunctions.
It affects crime.
And it just seems like thatawareness that your overall
(07:56):
mental well being weighs oneverything, even if you don't
have a diagnosis or a concern.
It's just everywhere.
You know, and you're absolutelyright and it's a quality of life
issue.
As we really saw the impact ofWhat the pandemic did to
everybody throughout thiscountry, and of course, we all
know what happened here in Tulsaand Oklahoma and, you know, it's
time for us to stand up and sayso It seems like mental health
(08:19):
has always been kind of thequiet child in the corner.
Well, we found out that that'sthe last place it's got to be.
It's a big part of everyone'slife.
And, you know, we've seen a lotof data.
We see increases in youthsuicide We've seen poverty rates
go up.
And, you know, all that is, Ithink, mental health distress
contributes to that And sothere's lots of data we're
learning to look at and reallyquantify what quality of life is
(08:39):
and what wellness is.
You can't have mental healthwithout physical health and vice
versa.
We're acknowledging that We'relate to the table and we know
that but we're here now, and wewant to be part of the system
collective and the systempartnerships to hopefully help
people not be stigmatized, toseek these services, and to
acknowledge that, you know, I'mdepressed, or I've got issues,
or whatever and my quality oflife isn't where it should be,
(09:00):
so with these partnerships andthe help with organization like
yours, I think we can move thatneedle.
Well, I appreciate thestatement.
We're late to the table.
I don't think the healthdepartment is late to the table
I think as a society, this sortof aha moment is realizing all
this interconnectedness and thatwhen we underfund mental health
or anything connected to it, Weare really affecting everything.
(09:23):
I think that notion that thewhole thread is connected is
sort of a new notion not that itshould be, but it just seems
like the society is starting toacknowledge and even realize the
ways in which investing inmental well being is good
economic policy, is goodcommunity organization policy.
It's just good to make sure thatwe attend to these things.
You know, and I, so agree withyou, Adam, and, you're right.
(09:45):
It is a thread and everything isconnected.
We have to do a better job ofcreating a seamless mental
health and health system here inTulsa, here in Oklahoma, really
throughout this country.
We saw the public health systemkind of decimated.
We lost, I think 60, 000professionals during the
pandemic.
And a lot of that was because ofmental health people couldn't
handle the strain anymore.
And they left.
(10:06):
And I think we've all seen thatand that's happened with
multiple professions and we knowthat, let's just be honest, the
mental health system isunderfunded.
You know, we need practitioners.
We need to increase access andwe need to acknowledge that, we
all need help at times.
And that was very clear duringthe pandemic.
And, you know, I had a lot ofquestions about how we took care
of our staff and frankly, I wasfocused on the public and I
(10:27):
wasn't near as focused on ourstaff as I should have been and
I learned a hard lesson aboutreally it starts at home and in
this case home was Tulsa HealthDepartment and so we do much
more now to actually support ourstaff and we've learned from
like minded professionals likeyou and you know if our staff
aren't healthy and productive,it's a community that suffers,
so we have to take care of ourstaff before we can take care of
(10:50):
the community.
Well, that makes so much sense.
You mentioned in an article backin 2020 that really it was your
team's sacrifices that made allthe difference.
And, I'm glad to hear that youare still recognizing how
important your staff is to theagendas you're trying to push
forward.
You know, they're our humancapital, and they're our
greatest asset, they truly are.
(11:10):
And without them and theirdedication, we wouldn't have
gotten through the pandemic aswell as we actually did.
So, you know, I salute them, Iadmire them, I respect them, I
absolutely love them.
And, it's our responsibility tomake sure that they have the
ability to be their best everyday.
And that's on us.
You know, one thing I findreally interesting, the pandemic
really propelled so many issuesso quickly, fast forward.
(11:33):
Telehealth was one, you know,telehealth was kind of this
Sleeping little anomaly that nota lot of people are doing and
then now it's so much more inthe forefront.
And You were saying you're lateto the table.
No, not really I mean mentalhealth is now certainly
realizing how physical healthcare and all of those elements
make whole person care.
And so it's nice to hear it froma public health perspective as
well.
But, you know, what do you seeas a priority focus over the
(11:56):
next few years?
What are some trends that arehappening in this space?
Do you have any projectionsabout where things might be
headed?
You know, you talk abouttelehealth.
I mean, we're really focused ondata modernization now.
I mean we have to be in it.
We've got to be interoperable.
Right.
And we're not, you know, so wehave all these different silos
of systems, we can't even talkto each other.
We got a wonderful grant fromthe CDC, a public health
(12:17):
infrastructure grant and part ofthat is to modernize our data
platforms our data capacity andcapability, but it can't just be
with us.
We have to intersect all thesedifferent systems and it takes
funding to do that, but I thinkwe're starting to climb that
mountain in the workforce.
We lost so many professionalsduring the pandemic.
So part of that grant was toactually attract and attain our
(12:38):
brand new public healthworkforce we need to provide the
tools for our staff to besuccessful, help them grow
professionally.
And it really help themunderstand what public health
truly is.
So, you know we use old systemsand antiquated systems and
everything's got to be steppedup.
We've got to improve our abilityto communicate, our ability to
engage, and it takes funding todo that, but it also takes, the
(12:59):
data systems that will help usget there.
So I see data modernization isnumber one, our workforce as
number two and then reallyacknowledge having the ability
to intersect with organizationslike, for example My Health,
which is a health informationexchange, which has tremendous
data and data capacity.
We don't have to be the lonedata aggregator in this county.
(13:21):
So identifying those otherpartners who also possess these
amazing influences that we canwork with and understand that,
you know, it is a system, it'snot just us.
So when I look at Tulsa or anyother community The health
department needs to help assurethat these outcomes occur, but
of course you open your toolbox,and the toolbox is community
partners, community agencies.
(13:41):
There's probably not a lot ofthings that you say, well, we do
that ourselves, but you've gota, sort of, align and organize
all the other Entities andpartners.
What is the hardest part?
And what is the part that is,you know, gives you the most
optimism about getting acommunity organized around
things while knowing that Ourorganization has our strategic
(14:02):
priorities and this organizationhas that.
How do you weave that alltogether knowing that not all
priorities are aligned even ifthey're at least somewhat
harmonious?
I learned that early in Tulsa.
Just pick up the phone.
I was told when I got here thatHow analog of you.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, when I movedhere, I was told I could never
get the health system in thesame room together.
(14:22):
I could never get OU and OSU inthe same room together.
You know, when you're new andyou're going through the
honeymoon period, just pick upthe phone.
And it's amazing who comes tothe table.
And we acknowledge thateveryone's got their goals and
objectives, but the goals andobjectives are, not really
what's their bottom line, butthe community's bottom line of
improving health, both physicalhealth and mental health.
(14:42):
And I'll give you an example.
Back when the Affordable CareAct Marketplace opened up.
We were told that nobody wouldsign up for that in Oklahoma.
Nobody would sign up in Tulsa.
And so we put out a call to allof our community partners.
We got everybody in room and wecreated this function we called
the Marketplace Monday.
Where we opened up four sitesacross Tulsa County.
(15:03):
We signed up 800 people that dayfor health care, health
insurance.
Many of them had never hadhealth insurance before.
And the stigma just behindhealth insurance was amazing.
I saw a gentleman who walked up,had never had health insurance
in his life.
There were TV cameras outsidebecause it was a media event.
And he put his shirt over hisface.
Because he didn't want to berecognized.
(15:24):
And I talked to him afterwards.
He's ashamed both of, I thinkaccessing the ACA and not having
his health insurance and he sureas hell, excuse me, he sure as
heck didn't want to, you can sayhell here, himself on TV.
So.
You know, there's so much stigmathat we've got to get past, and
we have stigma around healthinsurance.
Imagine the stigma aroundseeking mental health services.
Well, exactly.
That was just going to go there,the stigma.
(15:45):
And, you know, connecting mentalhealth and physical health, I
think, is a really key componentof breaking down that stigma.
But how do you feel publiceducation about that needs to be
propelled in Tulsa?
You know, we work very closelywith many school systems here.
Matter of fact we have a schoolhealth education program in the
health department, and we 67,000 students just last year.
So education is huge.
(16:07):
And it starts with that.
It starts with health literacy.
Both mental health and physicalhealth literacy.
Because people, for example,when we signed up people for
health insurance, they never hadit.
They never had co pays.
They never had insurancepremiums.
They didn't understand how toget their scripts.
So health literacy is huge,education is a big part of that.
And, you know, we always saythat education is a great
equalizer.
Well, we're finding out thateven if you're educated, there's
(16:28):
still structural and systemicbarriers to achieving the
highest level quality of lifeand achieving your greatest
possibility.
But it starts with education.
With education, we can breakdown those barriers, but we've
got to get everyone to see theproblem.
And that for us, I think that'sthe biggest issue because
there's differentinterpretations of what the
goals and vectors should be,there are different
interpretations of what theissues truly are.
(16:49):
And we've got to come together.
At least with health departmentI think we're considered a safe
partner.
We can convene groups and peoplearen't afraid to come and talk
to us That was, I think ourbiggest asset during pandemic
was that we were able to reallybe part of this great
partnership.
And we responded as a whole and,thank goodness for all of our
partners because we wouldn'thave made it through without
(17:09):
everybody engaging and doingtheir best to serve.
So the health department,everything I have heard about
you coming in, both youpersonally and the health
department is, it's amazing theamount of trust that you were
able to maintain in such apoliticized and anxiety
provoking period like thepandemic.
The health department, I think,retains so much of that trusted
(17:30):
partner, which allows it to be acenter table for so many of the
important conversations.
I saw the same thing in Missouriduring that time in a different
way.
But again, the health departmentbeing that trusted center, but
it's such a flash pan wherethere is no topic anymore that
isn't politicized, right?
There's nothing.
Mental health, health care.
You know, if I came to you andsaid nice day outside, I'm sure
(17:53):
that would be a verycontroversial statement to some.
And so, how do you nowexperience the day to day?
Is it as politicized as it was?
Have the waters receded a littlebit?
And how do you maintain thattrusted partner or trusted
convener status?
Within a world in which there'sno such thing as a safe
statement.
You know, I I think thetemperature has ramped down a
(18:13):
little bit But you're right Adamand being honest everything's
political these days, especiallywe're Coming up on I think a
pretty divisive election yearand we're aware of that and you
know I don't pay a whole lot ofattention to that, to be
perfectly honest.
We have our mission and ourvision, and we've gotta bring
our best every day to serve.
So, you know, we hope wemaintain the trust that I think
(18:34):
we built during the pandemic,but we work every day to do what
we say we're gonna do.
That's how we can keep trust.
If we're not sincere.
And we don't actually do what wesay we're going to do, then,
people will walk away.
And nobody can afford to havethe system fragmented like that.
So, I don't worry about thepolitics.
People have their thoughts andthey're welcome to them.
We all have them.
(18:55):
But, we're here to do a veryspecific thing and do it in
collaboration with greatcommunity partners.
And we don't let anything get infront of us.
So, as it relates to mentalhealth, Dee, again, the
priorities from the strategicplan from 2023, can you read
those back to me?
Priority number one was stressand mental health.
So when you look at that and yousay, okay, reducing stress and
(19:15):
increasing mental health, isthat the basic idea of the
strategic priority.
You know, it really is.
And so we're learning how to dothat with all of our great
partners because we don'tactually do that work and we
don't work in that space.
But we have great partners whodo.
And so if we can convince themto let us be a part of what they
do and who they are, it not onlyhelps us learn, but it helps us
(19:36):
position ourselves that we canbring assets to the table and
can bring influence.
And hopefully be a part of thesolution as opposed to being
ignorant of it, which is for us,I think, our biggest failure in
the past.
So what are the biggest thingsin that, you know, so again, you
set the priority, which I thinkis a good priority, and that's a
reflection of communitysensitivities and preferences.
But whether it is an agency likeFamily and Children's or whether
(19:58):
it's just a citizen or afoundation What are the ways
that you see are most important,but maybe not most obvious that
we step in and help?
You know and that's a reallygood question.
We already talked about thestigma a little bit and and I
think you make it reallycomfortable for people to step
up and step into the issue, butYou know, we don't have a true
(20:20):
mental health system here inOklahoma.
And we don't have enough mentalhealth providers enough primary
care providers.
So, you know, Oklahoma, we know,has a lot of needs.
And I think we have to be honestabout that.
And not only address the issues,but address the foundational
issues.
if we don't have providers, howcan we serve our public.
So, you know, we have to dosomething to get providers here,
(20:41):
to attract them, to keep them,to pay them.
and I think that takes thewhole, it takes the entire
state, takes the legislature,takes the governor, takes all of
our elected officials.
Because, you know, we're allserving the same jurisdictions,
the same communities, and if wedon't provide the resources,
we're not gonna have a system.
And we know that without asystem, Whether it be fiscal
health, mental health, publichealth, whatever, there's too
(21:03):
many holes and people fallthrough the cracks.
And they deserve better.
How will you know,, from yourposition, you've got that
strategic priority?
How will you know when wecollectively are making progress
on that?
So we're working with ourpartners now to actually create
a data dashboard that we canmeasure our priorities our goals
and objectives within thosepriorities To see if we are
actually being impactful andmore importantly to evaluate
(21:26):
what we're doing you know, wetry to evaluate everything we do
because If we're not meeting ourgoals and objectives, we need to
modify, we need to changedirection and pivot.
We monitor our data veryclosely.
So we're in the process ofbuilding that dashboard so we
can really see what are wedoing, how well are we doing it,
how well are we engaging ourpartners, and are we being
impactful or are we not?
And do we need to pivot or do wejust keep going?
(21:47):
And so it's just, being awareand serious about the data of
people.
And acknowledging that andfollowing that, but constructing
the right dashboard andaggregating the right data.
And that's where we need help,like, from partners like you,
Adam, because, you know, it'snot our area of expertise.
But we go to people like you andask, what is the data that we
should be monitoring, should becollecting, and should be
(22:08):
evaluating, and that's Reallywe're at right now.
So Tulsa is so unique and I'mstill learning so much about it
The ways in which You've got acity and a county very overlaid
on to each other but then youalso have so many tribes that
are here and you have so manypeople groups and it to me is
just full of energy and dynamicopportunity, but as a health
(22:28):
department with all theseoverlays How do you work with
all of these different entities?
How does the health departmentweave into all of that that goes
beyond the foundations and theagencies to Just all the
different people in one area,you know And we recognize that
everybody has different goalsand objectives But the end point
is really the same and that's tohelp people reach their greatest
(22:49):
possibility.
So we connect where we can helpthem reach that and we connect
where they can help us reach ourgoals there, too because You
know, we have greatrelationships with the tribes.
We have, great relationshipswith the various non profits and
healthcare systems who, by theway, during pandemic, the
healthcare systems were theheroes here, bottom line, and we
wouldn't have gotten anywherewithout them.
So, you know, it's knowing yourpartners, but also knowing how
(23:12):
you can help them reach theirgoals as well.
We can't keep going into theseconversations.
Asking for things.
We have to give back as well.
And so we try and find thatcommon ground where we're
mutually beneficial and we're,not only asking, but we're
giving as well.
And I think if we can do thatand help everyone achieve their
goals, we can create thattapestry of partnerships that is
(23:33):
seamless.
And you're right, Tulsa is socool.
It's got great energy and it'sgot everything that we love to
do, what my wife and I love todo here.
So it's a community worthfighting for.
And I think we have people wholove this city, love this
county, and want to be part ofthe solution.
And it doesn't always have to beorganizations, it can be
individuals.
I mean, like minded people,activists, who are really active
(23:55):
in improving communitystandards.
And we're learning that, youknow, we don't just go to our
partners.
We also have got to meet peoplewhere they are.
And we're figuring out from themental health perspective, how
do we meet people in theirneighborhoods where they're at
so that access isn't an issueand they can feel connected.
Because I think once people feelconnected, it's the first step
towards reaching their greatestpossibility.
(24:17):
Wow, that's good stuff.
It is.
You talked a little bit aboutlocal trends earlier.
The pandemic, like you said, wassomething we never expected to
happen.
Is there anything on thehorizon?
I know we're in the middle ofthis opioid epidemic.
We have some issues with that,which is very much of a physical
and a mental health connection.
Do you see any other trends thatwe should be just keeping our
(24:37):
eye on that may blow up?
Well, you're absolutely rightabout the opioid issue and we
are looking at solutions tothat, and at least funding to,
because there's not enoughsubstance abuse providers here
as well.
And so if you talk about allthese issues, way too much comes
back to a provider ratio issue.
and that's, I think, unless westart lowering that provider
(24:59):
ratio number, and have moreproviders per capita, we're
still going to continue to becircling the drain and spinning
our wheels, which we can't.
And I have no idea what issuesare for us that are non issues,
but seem to be political issues.
Right.
And we'll see what comes downthe pike.
Cause I'm always surprised aboutwhat people consider issues that
for us, they truly are not.
(25:20):
And, you know, we talk about,equality.
I mean everybody should have theability.
to live, work, and play in thesame area and have the ability
to have the same, lifeexpectancy, you know, and people
are afraid to talk aboutequality and equity and health
disparity.
And we have to talk about thesethings, because it's a reality.
And if we don't, how are wegoing to solve these problems?
So, it's identifying the issuesfirst and standing up and
(25:43):
calling it out and not letting,I think elected officials who
have other goals and objectivesstop us from doing that.
So, you know, we've got to workwith our elected officials.
For example, all the electedofficials in Tulsa County during
pandemic were wonderful to workwith, you know, and we wouldn't
have also been so successful.
Our, Tulsa mayor who, you know,was in an election here and
followed the science and Godbless him, you know, so we have
(26:05):
a lot of courageous, electedofficials here as well.
They help us also identify theseissues, but.
We've got to do the hard stuffand we have talked about the
hard stuff and right now thehard stuff is all around health
disparity, equality, racism,those social determinants of
health that really are impactingpeople across the spectrum and
we have to call it and saythat's an issue and we're seeing
more and more of these socialdeterminants that are impacting
(26:27):
health on a broad, spectrum andif we don't start identifying it
and coming together around it.
These, social determinants arenever gonna go away, right?
And everybody deserves,regardless of where they're born
in Tulsa County, they deserveequal opportunity to reach their
greatest possibilities in life.
And we have to identify thosedeterminants that prevent that.
So I'm gonna step into it, andyou don't have to follow me
(26:48):
here, but, I'm gonna step intoit and maybe regret it later.
But, you know.
I think it's so important thatmental health stays as non
political as possible becauseright now, Republicans,
Democrats, whole spectrum,everybody agrees on mental
health.
But I've seen in recent years,especially as election cycles
come around that as the rhetoricramps up, it gets harder and
harder to stay out of it andkeep it depoliticized, even when
(27:11):
you know if you step into it,you speak up too much, it could
affect funding, it could affectso many other things.
And yet, there are some areaswhere there is so much science
around the importance of equityand the importance of if they
don't trust you, they won't comein to get care.
I don't even know the answer,but I think it is a really
important thing that in theinterest of staying apolitical,
(27:34):
we don't fail to speak up onthings that really matter where
the science of well being is in,we've gotta Speak up, but it
does create quite a tightrope.
I know for mental health But Iwould expect for the health
department as well and how youStay out of the political waters
while still speaking up for thethings where there's the science
there and there's the outcomesthere And we have to speak for
people's well being, You'reright and it's not easy And it's
(27:57):
something I think that wenavigated as well as we possibly
could during pandemic because itwas our goal to run a public
health response And not getmisdirected.
You're absolutely right.
Sometimes when things becomepolitical, we know it's very
difficult, but you can't stepback from that and you've got to
step into it.
I think we did that during thepandemic and it cost us in some,
(28:17):
in some cost you?
What are some ways it cost you?
Well, you know, there was somelegislation early on and now
we're seeing all over thecountry.
We're seeing legislation that,for example, will prevent us
from, having mask mandates orvaccine mandates.
And we're seeing all thesepublic health laws now, or anti
public health laws that arecoming to legislatures all
across the country.
So when I talk about steppinginto them, that's everywhere.
(28:38):
It's not just in Oklahoma.
And, you know, I would love itif we could talk to elected
officials in a way where we're,doing our best.
In these extreme circumstances,would I ever want to do a mask
mandate again?
No.
You know, because adults areadults and they should make
their own decisions, butchildren can't.
So there's so many variablesthat go into some of these
decisions that we made duringpandemic that, are costing us
(29:00):
now.
And, you know, I don't want tosee regulations or laws come out
that prevent us from doing thejobs that we need to do,
especially in times of crisis.
So, we're actually nationally,we're monitoring all like the
anti public health legislationthat's going on in states all
over the country, because weknow eventually we're going to
have to step up into that.
And as it relates to health careand mental health, I feel like
so many of these things, thetakeaways are not about whether
(29:23):
we were right or wrong on somethings.
We were wrong on some things.
Oh yeah.
The science wasn't in and wewere trying to get it as fast as
we could.
Oh yeah.
And yet, the takeaway too oftenis not, well, we had good
science, but that science as itgot better, then we got better.
I feel like so often thetakeaway is We'll see now you
can't trust science and so thenthat sort of pulls us back to a
direction where we can'tactually trust a health
(29:45):
department or a mental healthprofessional or others.
with information when reallythat scientific process is
supposed to constantly give usnew information so we can pivot
more.
And I think we have to do abetter job of communicating just
that because we knew during thepandemic it changed almost every
day.
So our messaging changed everyday so I could understand why
everybody was confused.
Heck, we were confused.
(30:06):
What new thing are we going tolearn today?
And to stand up and have somecredibility and constantly
saying, well, I was wrongyesterday.
Here's the news, the newsinformation today.
Of course, that's createdissues.
And I can understand why peoplewouldn't trust that.
You know, but But you'reabsolutely right.
That's what science is andscience changes.
It's progressive and so it goesin multiple directions all at
once and We have to learn how toreally communicate that in a
(30:29):
more effective way I think thoseare things that that we're
working on doing things likethis I think it really helps but
we've got to get people to trustscience and scientists aren't
perfect, human beings makemistakes and we have to
acknowledge that as well becausewe acknowledge when we were
wrong But we were wrong based onthe science of that day, and
communicating that is justdifficult.
So I think most people dounderstand that.
(30:50):
Even when I talked to a lot oflawmakers, there's always
pressure that lawmakers on bothsides feel to stay in line with
a, party stance or a perceivedparty stance, and yet when I
talked to a lot of themindividually, I think most of
the people I talk to understandthese things.
And I wish I would take my ownmemo more as a parent, but All
the research says the parentswho can say I was wrong to their
(31:12):
kids generate more credibilityand trust with them than the
ones who are never wrong.
And I think that the generalpublic does tend to understand
those things, but I think it's aconstant challenge to navigate
that when there's so many thingstrying to chip away at that
credibility.
You know, it is.
And so we just focus on tryingto do the right thing based on
the information we have andsaying so.
(31:33):
You know, and also acknowledgingthat this might be different in
the future, but here's what weknow today and That's what we
try to do during pandemic andyou're right I mean many
lawmakers understood that and Iappreciate their support and
they're constrained by partypolitics and we understand that
as well And that's just thenature of the beast.
But we can work within thatbecause mental health public
health It's a political it trulyis it's serving people We talk
(31:55):
about infectious disease, theydon't care what political party
you're in, so we don't careeither.
You know, we want to find, waysto communicate, ways to partner.
For example, the state healthcommissioner Keith Reed, we have
a great relationship.
with the state health departmentand with Keith.
And we worked very hard to buildthat relationship.
And, he's in a difficultposition because he's a
political appointee.
But he does a tremendous job ofdoing public health in Oklahoma.
(32:18):
And that's all we're trying todo here in Tulsa County.
You know, and at the end of theday, it's, we all want the same
thing.
We want a great quality of life,great physical health, great
mental health, those types ofthings.
So, getting past the barriersof, I was wrong yesterday, or I
was wrong today, or I don't likeyour political agenda.
I think we all feel the same,that we want a good quality of
life here in Tulsa.
(32:38):
What are you most optimisticabout when you look forward,
especially on the mental healthside, you say these are the
things I think we will eitherimprove on or already improving
on the fastest?
You know, I think just theattention to mental health
issues that you know, we didn'thave Three, four, five years
ago, you know, it's in theforefront now, because the
pandemic affected everybody andaffect people in different ways,
(33:00):
but it really brought mentalhealth to the forefront.
Like I've never seen it before.
And so it's an opportunity formental health, I think, to
really be in their strongestsetting.
and more foundational thanthey've ever been.
So I'm excited about thosepossibilities and the
recognition that this is acommunity need and part of
quality of life.
I've heard lawmakers say thatthe government has
(33:22):
responsibility for quality oflife and I love it.
When I hear that, you know, andit's acknowledgement that that's
why they're there to serve and,and to know now that we can talk
about mental health issues andwhat it does and how we can
actually have solutions andcreate a system and resources to
help people.
We didn't have thoseconversations three, four, five
years ago.
We're having them now.
(33:42):
and I'm sure it's a little latein the game, but hey, we're
getting started.
And I think it's going to takeus to a great place that we've
never been before.
So you started in the healthdepartment work in the early 80s
when you were 13.
Yeah.
And now, you've seen ittransform a lot.
You described earlier the waysin which it's changing.
(34:03):
You know, in another 20 yearswhen you're still in the field.
What do you predict?
Where are we sailing as far ashow health departments interact
within the community and what,what will be next and how it all
works?
When you talk to citizens orresidents of communities, and
you ask them what's reallyimportant in their community and
they, always say things likepolice and fire and health
systems.
20 years, they're going to saypublic health.
(34:24):
And they're going to say mentalhealth, and which they don't say
today, but that's going tochange because of the work we're
doing, the fact that we'revisible, and we're doing it
collectively with all of ourpartners, and people I think
will acknowledge that they needmental health and public health
services in their life everyday, and I think we'll do a
better job of, Convincing peoplehow we touch them every day,
even when they don't see us.
(34:44):
Because we provide services thataffect the community as a whole.
And they might not see us doingit, but because we're doing it,
they're safe.
And, now we add mental health tothat mix, people aren't afraid
of walking in the door.
And it doesn't matter whatneighbor thinks.
And so that, I think for us,that's gonna be the biggest
change.
This is almost a philosophical,it's, it's paradigm shift where,
(35:05):
you know, we are now out in theforefront and citizens recognize
that they need services fromorganizations like ours and they
welcome it.
So, Hopefully it won't take 20years, but I think that's the
direction we hope to go.
I love that vision, and I soappreciate everything about
this.
I know we didn't get to some ofthe fun stuff, and I wonder if
we get to some, some, uh, thiswas all fun, but, uh, some stuff
(35:26):
about, some stuff about Bruce,it's time to grill Bruce.
Yeah, so, we've talked a lotabout physical health, mental
health, how they're connected.
So.
Um, on the weekends, how do youtake care of your own physical
and mental health?
What do you do for fun?
You know, my, my mental healthtime is spent on my bike, um, or
in the pool.
I'm right there with you.
Yeah, or in the pool swimming.
I used to be an Ironman until mybody got too rusty.
(35:47):
So now I, I can't run anymore,but I, I still swim and bike and
I'm on the Tulsa Masters swimteam and I bike and, you know,
and I go to biking events.
Like I love Tulsa Cuff.
My favorite event of the year isTulsa Tough.
I bike in it.
What is Tulsa Tough?
It's, a three day bikeextravaganza.
Oh, Adam, we'll have to go.
Oh, you'll love it, Adam.
You will love it.
I will be glad to watch that.
(36:07):
Where, where pros come in andjust normal people like me just
go ride.
And pros come in and do, docrits and, and we have road
races, and it's just an amazingthree day event, and it's become
huge, we have people from allover the country coming here,
and all over the world as well,and you'll, you'll love it when
you see it.
It gets a little crazy at nighton Sunday, but it, talk about
(36:29):
stress reliever, you know.
Yeah, exactly.
But my wife Denise, she, shebikes as well, so she'll bike
with me, and she doesn't mind ifI, you know, leave her and I'll
come back, you know, so.
That's what my husband does.
Yeah, she, I, I meet her back inthe car.
You know.
It's like, just come back andloop me.
But, but, you know, it just,it's things that, that we do
together, and it relieves mystress.
You can get those endorphinsgoing.
Absolutely.
And you don't, you don't feelthe stress, and that's what got
(36:51):
me through the pandemic, and,you know, it's how I live my
life, all my life, because I wasa, um, athlete in college, and,
I have always worked out andtried to stay in shape, and, and
that continues to this day.
Well, it's a true mark thatphysical health and mental
health are connected and there'sthings that we can do every
single day and what you're doingevery single day is making a
difference and I'm thrilled toknow that all these partnerships
(37:13):
are developing and that thestigmas are breaking down on
both sides of the table.
Yeah, thank you so much forjoining.
you and I and a few others havehad lunch a few times and I
realized early on in that firstvisit, that this is a
conversation I wanted to havebecause I just think certainly
you were the right person to bea celebrity during the pandemic
because you didn't want to be.
No.
Never again.
Never again.
And I remember the look on yourface when I said I wanted to
(37:35):
talk about some of that heretoday.
But I appreciate you coming into have the conversation because
I think the best people forthese times are the people who
would step in like you did andwill, fight even when it costs
you some of your sense of wellbeing and your team's sense of
well being.
You sacrificed for us then.
We appreciate that and we wantto make sure that both as an
agency and as a community wecontinue to lift you and your
(37:55):
team up.
Thank you for what you and yourteam are doing.
And, we look forward to havingyou on here again.
You know, I really appreciatethat, Adam.
And, once again, I wassurrounded by great people and
great partners and it was thatcollective response that made it
all happen.
So, you know, I hire smartpeople and I get out of the way.
And hopefully, our partners arethe same way they just let us do
(38:16):
what we do.
And so, collectively, we madeit.
And hopefully we can take thatmomentum and do great work in
the future.
Absolutely.
And I'll see you on the biketrail.
All right.
I'll be there.
Very good.
Thank you.
Thank you for tuning in.
If you found value in what youheard today, there are a few
ways you can support and stayconnected to us.
First, be sure to hit thatsubscribe button whenever you're
(38:38):
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(39:00):
We are always eager to hear yourthoughts, ideas, and suggestions
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com for all of our episodes, andyou can also email us at
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(39:21):
Until next time
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