May 26, 2025 • 47 mins
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Debra Erickson, founder of The Blind Kitchen, shares how her organization helps visually impaired people reclaim their passion for grilling and outdoor cooking through specialized tools and techniques. Having graduated from culinary school as one of the only blind students in her class, Debra now uses her expertise to help others navigate cooking with vision loss.
• Adaptive tools for grilling include talking thermometers that announce temperatures aloud
• Extended grilling gloves protect arms when reaching over open flames
• Double spatulas help secure food when flipping, solving a major challenge for blind grillers
• Double skewers prevent food from spinning when turned, making rotation predictable
• Grill baskets contain multiple food items for easy flipping and tracking
• Most legally blind people have some light perception, which provides useful information when grilling
• Common fears include burning oneself, undercooking food, and producing unattractive meals
• Many tools weren't specifically designed for the blind but naturally lend themselves to adaptive cooking
• The aging population often experiences vision loss, making these tools increasingly relevant
• The most rewarding feedback comes from people who thought they'd lost part of their identity
Visit The Blind Kitchen's website at https://theblindkitchen.com or send an email to info@theblindkitchen.com to learn more about our products and services.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Debra Erickson (00:00):
The best emails I get are from people who
thought that part of theiridentity was gone.
You know, they're the one thatcooks on Memorial Day.
They do all the grilling for,you know, fourth of July, and
now they thought they'd never beable to do it again.
And somehow they find the blindkitchen and so it gives people
(00:22):
that part of their identity back.
Announcement (00:25):
Time to fire up that grill.
From smoked pork to smashburgers, outdoor cooking just
tastes better.
This is the Okie Smokin'Podcast, and here's your host,
John Barry.
John Berry (00:45):
Welcome back to the Okie Smokin Podcast.
Today I've got a very specialguest, a chef as well, an
executive chef and the founderof the Blind Kitchen.
Her name is Debra Erickson.
She was one of the only blindstudents in her class, a former
instructor with OregonCommission for the Blind.
How are you doing today?
(01:06):
Welcome in.
Debra Erickson (01:08):
I'm doing good.
Thank you for having me.
John Berry (01:10):
Now.
So how did you get the idea forthe Blind Kitchen?
Debra Erickson (01:14):
Well, I am blind myself and I like to teach, and
I graduated from culinaryschool in 2019.
And in March of 2020, and so Iwas teaching at the Commission
for the Blind, teaching legallyblind adults how to cook safely.
And then COVID hit, and so Ifound myself at home for a year
(01:35):
and a half not able to doteaching.
So I went ahead and organizedall the different things I'd
learned, and grilling was partof what we had to cover in.
You know, all types offabrication of meats and things
like that, so I knew a lot aboutadaptive cooking tools.
If you do have vision loss andyou want to grill and in fact,
(01:58):
we have a grilling collection onthe website Quite a few tools
have to do specifically withoutdoor barbecuing, grilling,
smoking.
John Berry (02:07):
And are those tools different?
That you need for the grill orfor just a regular indoor oven
and stove, or different?
Debra Erickson (02:14):
No outdoor grill .
So if I'm cooking indoors, ifI'm broiling or something in my
oven, I have a certain pair ofgloves.
There's a different one foroutside, because your arms are
over, directly, often over theheat source In the kitchen.
You can avoid putting yourhands in the oven, but you can't
outside putting because it'sgoing to be over the coals or
over the flame.
So the tools are specificallyfor outdoor grilling and
(02:38):
barbecuing.
Some of them.
John Berry (02:41):
Right, because I know if you're using the oven
you can just gently, you know,maybe pull it closer to you and
just reach in and grab the potor pan without actually going
over the fire and on the grill.
You don't really have thatoption.
Debra Erickson (02:56):
You're exactly right.
That's why the gloves aredifferent.
John Berry (03:00):
Gloves have to be longer?
What if you have some kind of asearing up or you know,
sometimes the fire can get alittle too hot.
Is there a way for you toidentify that?
Debra Erickson (03:13):
It definitely can.
You can hear it usually, andcertainly you can feel it.
And so then you would have thecontrols marked and it's very
easy to do it.
They're called bump dots.
Of the controls marked and it'svery easy to do it.
They're called bump dots andyou put them in predictable
places like maybe at 300, maybeat 350, maybe at 400.
And that way, if I'm doing it,depends on your controls.
(03:33):
But if I'm doing a dial, I haveto know where the tip of the
dial is pointing to and itusually forms a point.
They're almost all manufacturedthat way, and so if I want the
350, I'm going to go until itlines up with that second bump
dot that is located on the grillitself.
So that's how I control thetemperature and so if I need to
bring it down, I bring it down.
(03:56):
And the other thing is that avery small percentage of people
who are legally blind arecompletely blind.
It's a very, very small portion.
Most people do have lightperception.
So if the light gets brighteror aflame, as you're talking
about, we do have some visualinformation.
It won't be as clear as yours,but it'll still be information
(04:19):
that's useful to us to help usmake sure we can keep doing what
we still love to do.
John Berry (04:23):
Right and I assume you would use your, you would
listen and you could probablystart to hear it ramp up.
You know, because when you getthe, you do have some flame
noise coming out of it that youcan detect and, of course, the
heat of it as well.
Debra Erickson (04:38):
Sure, you would use all three of those senses
and whatever vision you, ifyou're lucky enough to have some
.
John Berry (04:50):
What are some of the more common fears that you
would suspect someone?
Debra Erickson (04:52):
visually impaired would have when cooking
in the kitchen or on the grill.
Okay, so for the grillspecifically, I mean we could
talk about preparation cutting,and people are afraid of cutting
themselves and burningthemselves, of embarrassing
themselves by looking messy or,you know, uncoordinated, or also
by producing unattractive foodfor their guests.
You know, I'm handing you aplate of food, I can't see it.
(05:14):
But for grilling I do want tostick to that.
It's mostly fear of burningyourself or fear of not being
able to manipulate the food onthe grill, not to know when to
do it and not to know how to doit.
So I'll tell you about some ofthe information I'll be giving
you is based on tools, and someof them are just strategies.
(05:38):
So another fear people have ismaking people sick, and you know
because we undercook the food,like especially poultry or
seafood.
So there is a tool out therethat was not made for blind
people.
It's called a talkingthermometer, and mostly it was
created for nighttime grillingwhen you can't see the display
(06:02):
very well.
Most of these have a backlighton the display, but it's still
very hard for a lot of people tosee at night, and so that's why
this talking thermometer wascreated and you can toggle
between Celsius or Fahrenheitand all you have to do is push a
button an educated guess as tohow close in the center it is,
(06:22):
but it's an educated guess whenyou're doing it, even if you can
see perfectly well.
You can't see into the meat,but you put it and then you
press the button and it'll tellyou if your chicken's at 165 or
not, whether it's safe toconsume.
Because most of us, if we areafraid of making our family or
friends sick, you're gonnaovercook the food to be safe.
(06:43):
But this talking thermometerlets me cook.
Get the same information you'regetting through your eyes,
through my ears.
So, plus, if I do have, youknow, any vision loss or if it
is dark and I can't see well inthe dark and I got to get my
face close to the display, nowmy eyes are near the food, my
(07:03):
nose is, my mouth is.
It's not a safe place to be.
So if you can get theinformation through your ears, I
think everybody should do that.
John Berry (07:13):
Right and, like you said, it's a kind of a guess of
where you're going and even whenyou can see it, you might want
to put it in a couple differentlocations of it, because when
you read it you may get adifferent temperature and you
could put it, you know, in acouple of different locations
and make sure that it's cookedthoroughly in multiple locations
if you're cooking a bigger itemon the grill.
Debra Erickson (07:35):
No, you're exactly right, because you want
to.
It's the thickest part, closestto the bone, of that cut of
meat is going to be the lastpart to cook, so you want to
make sure that you're getting itinto the right spaces.
But, absolutely, multipleprobings are important.
John Berry (07:51):
And you mentioned that that talking thermometer is
made for everyday people atnighttime rather than those
visually impaired.
Which of the tools would yousay are actually for maybe
everybody, not even thinking ofthose that need it in that
manner?
Debra Erickson (08:10):
Okay for grilling specifically.
I think all of them are madefor the general population.
They just lend themselves wellto cooking with vision loss.
So I'll tell you about anotherone A problem.
So flipping a hamburger,flipping a steak, it can be
(08:31):
difficult if you have visionloss because it's hard to slide
it underneath and get it.
So, number one, I've got thegrill gloves.
I'm sure you're familiar withthese.
They come up your arm, up yourforearm, you know, like probably
six or seven inches, and theyhave a thumb and four fingers
and they're made of cloth butthey're covered with silicone
(08:53):
designs, so that way thatsilicone helps protect you
against the heat but it keepsthe flexibility.
Have you seen gloves like that?
John Berry (09:02):
Yes, yes, I've seen what you're talking about.
Debra Erickson (09:04):
Yeah.
So those are really goodbecause they give you tactile.
But trying to get, let's see,that piece of chicken flipped
over and knowing for sure thatyou flipped it over, it's hard
to do if you can't see it.
So we have something called adouble spatula and it's made out
of stainless steel and it'sbasically if a spatula and a
(09:28):
pair of tongs had a baby.
This is what it would look like.
So you slide it under and thenthere's a second.
So that rectangle is about fourinches by three inches on the
bottom.
The rectangle on the top issmaller, probably about one inch
by two inches.
So when I get under that stakeI can use my grilling glove or I
could use a fork to hold it inplace, so I can slide it
underneath and know for sure I'munderneath it.
(09:49):
Then I gently push down withthe littler spatula on the top.
They're attached, they don'tcome apart, and now I can pick
it up, know that I have it onthe platform and then turn it
over 180 and put it back downand I'll know it's going to be
almost in exactly the same place, because I haven't moved my
hand anywhere.
So that's something that alsoisn't made for and there's a lot
(10:12):
of different versions of it onthe market, but I like the one
that has the smaller rectangleon top because it makes it
easier to deposit that hamburgeror that pork chop once you put
it down.
Another thing that I think isreally useful not made for the
blind or visually impaired, butit's called a skewer, a double
skewer, because if you'recooking, let's say you're using
(10:35):
bamboo skewers or metal skewersand you run like, let's say, for
the hardest one, let's say wehave like a row of cherry
tomatoes For the hardest one,let's say we have like a row of
cherry tomatoes.
So they're round.
As they cook on the grill theyget hotter, the moisture gets
released to steam.
It makes the hole bigger thatit's being punctured through.
(11:01):
So when you go to turn it itcan turn uselessly in the center
, and I really can't know.
But ours have two prongs comingout of them.
It has a handle and then two Ithink they're about eight-inch
prongs.
So when I stick those samecherry tomatoes I make sure they
go through.
Now it's hitting on two holes.
(11:22):
There's no way I can't turnthat 180 degrees.
It can't roll uselessly, and sothat also works really good for
like other foods that roll.
So I can put sausages or hotdogs, impale them and then have
them be a little distance apartso that they can.
You know, the heat can get inbetween them and I can put
(11:44):
depending on how thick thesausage or the hot dog is.
I can flip four of them at thesame time and know that I've
turned them 180 degrees andthey're not going to roll
between the grate or anythinglike that.
It's going to work out.
So again, this was notsomething made, but it just
lends itself well to us.
John Berry (12:04):
Yes, because I can relate.
I do grill a lot and you dohave.
We have flat tops and things orit's unlevel and you put it
there and everything rolls and Ialways move it to the right
spot, so that that's a great wayto make sure it stays where
it's supposed to.
You have an entire grilling,barbecue and kitchen kit here
(12:26):
and there's those double prongs.
Is there any one of those?
That's the?
Is the most popular one goingto be the talking thermometer
there or the gloves?
Debra Erickson (12:34):
The gloves, the talking thermometer and, not
surprisingly, there's somethingcalled a corncob cleaner.
John Berry (12:40):
Yeah, I'm looking at that.
Debra Erickson (12:42):
It is so cool and, again, not meant for the
blind or visually impaired, butit's good for so.
The other thing is is thepopulation is aging and with
aging often comes with some sortof vision loss.
It's different for everybody,but there are a lot of people
that enjoy outdoor grilling andthen once they lose you know,
macular degeneration or advancedglaucoma.
(13:05):
They don't know how to get back, and that's what this is about.
But the other thing that comeswith aging sometimes is teeth
problems, like you can't reallyeat a you know a corn cob
anymore.
So after you've grilled thecorn, or you can do it when it's
raw too, it depends on how youwant to eat it.
But you put what it is it's along tube and it's only got four
(13:26):
pieces in it to it, and it'sonly got four pieces in it to it
.
You put the corn cob, you huskit and then you get the silks
off and then you put it in andnow it's sticking up inside that
tube straight up.
The point of the corn ispointing towards the ceiling.
There is a tube, a steel tube,that has jagged little teeth on
(13:48):
the bottom.
They're sharp enough to get thecorn kernels off the cob, but
they aren't sharp enough topierce your skin, so you just
put that on the top.
Now the corn is being heldupward, you push down.
Sometimes you need to turn alittle bit.
All of the corn kernels comeoff and they stay in the tube
tube, as do the starches thatsquirt, because that can be a
(14:11):
real messy job.
And I remember when I used tobe able to see I grew up in
Indiana and we had to do a lotof canning of corns and stuff
like that and I remember it waseasy to leave half of a corn
kernel on there, you know, for awhole row.
This thing does it for youreally quick, really easy and
really cleanly, so that's apopular tool.
John Berry (14:33):
I know when you first started is barbecue and
grilling, which is really coolthat you do that.
Is it something that developed,maybe people requested, or how
did you all of a sudden decide abarbecue kit is something to go
ahead and add to yourcollection?
Debra Erickson (14:51):
Yeah, it was requested.
One guy looked at my libraryand I have things on dining out,
I have things on differentcooking methods, I have things
on labeling things and how doyou identify things.
And he said this is a greatwebsite, but you don't have
anything on barbecuing orgrilling.
I was like, oops, you're right,and so then I started.
(15:11):
My brother also has the sameeye disease I do and he grills
all the time.
He's into sous vide and allthat kind of stuff.
So he was one of my originaltesters because he's very good
at what he does.
So that's yeah, it was arequest and it's quite popular.
That's.
That's yeah, it was, it was arequest and it's quite popular.
John Berry (15:30):
So it's kind of evolving over time because you
know, in our motto here isoutdoor cooking just tastes
better.
We just love to do thiseverything outdoors.
And then as you get more peopleinvolved feedback, comments and
those kind of things you kindof fine tune it as you go along.
Debra Erickson (15:48):
Exactly right.
It's that feedback that helpsmake you better.
Is that double spatula good forpeople?
You know, maybe the handle'stoo long, maybe the handle's too
short, maybe it shouldn't bestainless steel, but so far I've
been getting really goodfeedback for these tools.
John Berry (16:05):
Yeah, I was also looking.
You have several recipes.
I like the way they're laid out.
I was looking at a couple ofthem that I would definitely try
myself and the way they go, butI also caught my eye there.
You actually have some barbecuesauce.
Debra Erickson (16:18):
I do, and that was based on a recipe from
Christine Ha.
She is a blind cook that wonthe third season of MasterChef,
and so I was trying to recreatesome of her recipes in her book
and that's where that one camefrom, so that's got a special
place in my heart.
And any kind of rubs or anykind of sauces, you can always
(16:40):
tweak it.
If you want it smokier, youcould add more smoked paprika,
or you could add liquid smoke.
If you want it sweeter, youcould add more brown sugar or
honey, or however you want tomake it your own.
But the recipes on this websiteare a good start.
John Berry (16:57):
Now, do you have any favorite grill recipe yourself,
or barbecue stories?
Debra Erickson (17:02):
Barbecue stories .
Well, yeah, one of the things Iwas learning on is I had a, so
I always have a work tray, whichis a tray that keeps everything
in one place for me.
And then I had I had thegrilling gloves, but I had a
cloth, and the cloth I had itover my shoulder while I was
(17:22):
working.
I was wearing an apron andsomehow the cloth came off and
it started on fire, and so thatwas a little bit scary.
But that's how I came up withthe grilling clips that they are
about four inches long and theyhave an alligator clip on one
end and an alligator clip on theother end, made out of
(17:43):
stainless steel.
So now I clip a cloth to myapron or to my clothing if
that's all I'm wearing, and itmoves with me, which is nice too
, and it's never going to end upin the flames.
And the other thing I do is mygrilling gloves.
It's really easy to put thosedown and then they move as
you're doing things.
But I use those grilling clipsglove clips.
(18:06):
They attach to my apron andthen they attach to the gloves,
so they move around with mewherever I go.
So I've always got them.
John Berry (18:13):
Now there was something else I saw on here
that I actually want.
I'm going to probably get these, and this would pertain to
anybody grilling or cookingindoors alone, and I actually
have a couple of cuts right nowon my finger.
Last time, about a week ago, Iwas cutting and I pricked my
finger a couple of times now onmy finger.
Last time, about a week ago, Iwas cutting and I I pricked my
finger a couple of times andyou've got I see these chain
(18:36):
mail or they're uh gloves thatyou can wear when you're cutting
so you don't have to worryabout cutting yourself, because,
uh, when you're grilling, a lotof times you'll be prepping
chicken in cubes, uh, slicing uponions to throw on smash
burgers, whatever you're doing,and are those pretty, something
you'd recommend not justvisually impaired, but anyone to
(18:58):
really have.
Debra Erickson (18:59):
Oh, absolutely.
And the way I learned aboutthose.
I was working in a commercialkitchen.
I was the only blind personthere, the only blind cook.
But the insurance companyrequired all cooks to wear them
before I'd ever gotten there,before they even knew they were
going to have me apply, and soall the cooks had to wear them.
Chain mail is a good word, butthese are much thinner than that
(19:22):
.
But they're a level five, whichmeans they're flexible, but
they're not going to be reallybulky Like the heat gloves and
the grill gloves are quite bulky.
They're flexible, but they'renot going to be really bulky
like the heat gloves and thegrill gloves are quite bulky.
They're going to be thicker.
So the other thing that thing isgood for is remember I was
telling you I need to make sureif I'm cooking like a chicken
(19:45):
breast or anything, I need tohave that thermometer tip at
least at one point in when I'mprobing it and I do do it
multiple times is that I want tohave it in the thickest part of
the meat, closest to the bone,depending on how it applies.
That cut glove is not expectedto protect me against heat, but
(20:08):
it does.
It's better than my skin, so Ican put that cut glove on and
now I've got more flexibility,more tactile information and I
can actually touch that meat forjust a couple seconds because
eventually the heat's going toget to me.
It's not meant to protect, butthat's the other good use for
that.
So, like when I'm flipping thathamburger I'm talking about,
(20:29):
I'll put that glove on my lefthand so that I can hold the
hamburger and then put thatunderneath it, and then I know
I've got it on the platform.
It just gives me more tactileinformation, even if the food is
hot.
John Berry (20:40):
So what you're saying is we have like a
blackstone griddle, a 22 inchgriddle that you heat up and
sometimes while we're cooking onit, it we can cut additional
food on it now, not directly onthe the griddle itself, but we
have a kind of a heat resistantit's.
It's kind of like a cuttingboard, but it's it's got feet
(21:01):
gets on top of it and you cancut with that.
So if you had those gloves onand on that cutting board,
you're kind of close to thegriddle, they're going to
protect you from the heat andcutting yourself kind of all in
one.
Debra Erickson (21:14):
Oh, I'll have to check that out.
That sounds like something thatwould be useful.
John Berry (21:18):
Yeah, because you can get on there and say you
want to dice up some additionalonions or something, and you can
do it right beside there andjust go ahead and slide it right
onto the griddle.
Food and things like that.
Debra Erickson (21:30):
Without messing up your nonstick surface.
It sounds like.
John Berry (21:33):
Yes.
Debra Erickson (21:34):
Yeah.
So just a little kind of funtip here.
Have you ever seen a GeorgeForeman grill?
John Berry (21:41):
Yes.
Debra Erickson (21:43):
I think we may even have one.
So that is hugely popular withthe blind community, mostly
because, well, usually they onlyhave one temperature.
Some of them have more controls, but they usually are at 350
and it's preset, so we don'thave to worry about the dials or
controls.
When it's plugged in, it's on.
If it's heated up, it's 350.
(22:03):
But the other nice thing for alot of people is you don't have
to flip the food.
It closes up like a suitcase,and so that's a real popular
thing that I've used, especiallywith people that wanted the
grilling experience per se, butthey were afraid of cooking over
an open flame and it's not foreverybody and it is intimidating
(22:27):
.
Until you do it a few times andrealize that you really aren't
going to get burnt.
That's a really good tool, andI wanted to also tell you
something that you might like.
So in culinary school I learnedthis they have something out
there called finger cuts in afirst aid kit, so we sell these
(22:49):
little first aid kits withBand-Aids.
The problem is, if you just cutyourself, you know just a little
bit and you just want to put aBand-Aid on it.
When you're cooking or grilling, your hands often get wet,
either from the steam or fromthe sweat or, you know, from
washing your hands.
So if you can't see, especially, or if it's dark outside, that
rubber band could fall down intothe food or the Band-Aid and
(23:12):
you don't even know it's there.
So what this does, it's kind oflike I'm just going to say the
word.
You put the rubber band on orthe Band-Aid on and now your
finger's dry, it's on, but nowyou want to get back to cooking
quickly.
It's kind of like a fingercondom.
That's the best way that itunrolls over your finger and
(23:33):
it's tight.
It's uncomfortably tight, butthat's so that it holds on, that
you're not going to lose it,and that enables you to keep
that bandaid on and get back tocooking really quickly without
worrying about that bandaidfalling out.
John Berry (23:47):
Oh, real cool.
Debra Erickson (23:50):
Yeah, it is a good one.
John Berry (23:51):
Now you have all these adaptive tools.
Now do you also do any classesor coaching or anything like
that?
Or you pretty much just givethe product to help those that
need it?
Debra Erickson (24:05):
Right, the products are the main thing, but
I also do workshops and publicspeaking for people and I also
do like presentations atconferences to just help get the
word out and let people knowthat it's there.
John Berry (24:18):
And if someone was per se into grilling or
something, what is the oneadvice or what would you
recommend to them?
Debra Erickson (24:27):
So it depends on their skill level and their
comfort and their vision.
But there's another tool Ididn't tell you about that I
think people will like, and it'scalled the grill basket and
basically I think it's about 16inches wide and 12 inches tall
and about one inch deep and it'sliterally like a suitcase.
(24:47):
But it's a grill basket.
It's the.
You know the I can't think ofthe right word it's grilling
material.
You put it in, it's going to beexposed to the flame or the
heat source, whatever your heatsource is, and then you can put
like four hamburger patties inthere, or you can put four small
(25:08):
petite steaks, if you wanted toput them in there, and then you
close up the basket and youlock it.
But now remember, air and heatcan get all around this basket,
and so you cook it for theamount of time you want for your
steak, maybe four minutes onone side, depending on the
thickness and how cold it is atthe time you put it on, and then
(25:28):
you can flip it over.
All four of them are containedwithin that basket and they all
flip at the same time, so that'sa pretty handy one to have too.
Where the food is contained,you know where it's at, it's
predictable, and that's a prettygood tool for people to have,
especially people that are justbeginning, that aren't wanting
to be chasing their food allover the grill if it rolls, or
(25:51):
something like that started.
John Berry (25:52):
That would be very helpful for, do you think, most
of the people.
Are you helping those that arevery new and beginners trying to
cook blind, or are theseintermediate older, more
(26:16):
experienced people?
Debra Erickson (26:18):
I'd go intermediate to more experienced
, because if you lose yourvision, grilling is probably not
going to be the first place yougo to for a new hobby.
But most of these are peoplethat were able to see and love
doing it for their friends andfamily and now, because of
vision loss, age-related orotherwise, they don't know how
(26:40):
to get back to it.
How can I possibly, like youwere talking, those flare-ups of
the flames if I can't see it?
How am I going to control it?
And so these tools help them,get the confidence that they can
do it, and you get into itslowly again.
But you know, the best emails Iget are from people who thought
(27:01):
that part of their identity wasgone.
You know, they're the one thatcooks on Memorial Day, they do
all the grilling for, you know,4th of July, and now they
thought they'd never be able todo it again.
And somehow they find the blindkitchen, and so it gives people
that part of their identityback, and that's a good thing to
(27:23):
hear, because I like to dothings that I used to like to do
when I could see better.
Of course I can't drive, but Ican cook, I can do other things,
so I would say most of thepeople that purchase this are
either people or agencies thatteach people with vision loss
how to cook, or people that usedto be able to cook and now want
(27:45):
to get able to cook and nowwant to get back to doing what
they love to do.
John Berry (27:49):
Have already been enthusiasts of cooking or
grilling or whatever what it isthey're doing and unable to, and
are looking to be able to bringthat passion back.
Debra Erickson (27:58):
Exactly right.
I mean, think about yourself.
You obviously have a passionfor this, and if you were to
lose your vision, you'd lose abig piece of who you are in
terms of grilling.
John Berry (28:08):
Now you mentioned people can email you.
Well, could we go ahead?
And what do you want to giveout your email or information
website?
Debra Erickson (28:17):
Sure.
So you can go totheblindkitchencom and it's got
a lot of detailed descriptionsand it's a very easy website to
navigate, because we use screenreaders and magnifiers and if we
have pop-up ads and differentthings going on it makes you
insane.
So it's a very clean websiteand you can write to me at info
(28:37):
at theblindkitchencom and if Idon't know the answer I'll ask
my brother, because he knows alot more about it than I do and
is there anything you're workingon now?
John Berry (28:47):
I mean, you know we talked about how you originally
started and then grilling was asuggestion or a recommendation,
or you need to be able to helpme do this.
Is there new things evolvingthat you haven't done yet?
That the future?
What is the future of the blindkitchen?
Debra Erickson (29:05):
Well, the future of the blind kitchen I want to
create a community around it,kind of like you've done.
You know where people can cometo one place.
I don't know if that looks likea podcast or if it looks like a
cook-along or whateversomething like that, but yeah,
the idea is to create acommunity.
But the next thing forbarbecuing and grilling is I
(29:26):
want to get sous vide up there,because that is one of the
safest way to cook.
You know that chicken is 165 or162, whatever you chose to put
that in when you put it in thewater the vacuum sealed bag in
the water, and so it's one ofthe safest ways for blind people
(29:49):
to be able to cook.
It's already you know.
You already know it's safe toconsume.
You've programmed it to whereyou want it, to what makes sense
, and so I really think thatwould be a valuable technique
for people with vision loss, andso I'm going to push that out
when I can.
But that requires purchasingequipment, or there's actually
(30:12):
wands out there that you can get, but not many of them are
accessible visually, so it'sgoing to take a bit of expense
of me getting different tools tofind out which ones are going
to be the most accessible forpeople with vision loss, and I
cater to the most blind personin the world.
I don't.
I want anyone that visits mywebsite to be able to use any of
(30:35):
the tools that are on it.
It's really important.
John Berry (30:38):
Of course, you've been doing all this, blind
yourself for the duration ofthis whole project.
Debra Erickson (30:44):
Oh yeah, oh yeah .
The blind kitchen was nothing.
I've been a teacher in the past, a teacher of adults.
So when I did lose most of myavailable vision, I didn't know
what I wanted to teach.
I knew I didn't want to go backto teaching what I was teaching
because I thought it'd befrustrating.
And so I was in a cooking classand, my dear friend, I said
(31:10):
this is fun, I enjoy this andmaybe I could teach cooking.
And then immediately I said Ican't, I don't know how to cook.
I don't know how to teachcooking Because my mom I'm one
of 12 kids, so my mom didn'thave time to put each of her
seven daughters in front of thestove.
So my contributions to dinnerwere like peeling 10 pounds of
(31:31):
potatoes, setting the table andcleaning up.
So when I raised my family, Igot things out of boxes and cans
.
I could follow instructions andyou know macaroni and cheese or
hamburger helper.
But I really had no love forcooking and no real interest in
it.
But when that light bulb wenton in my head at the Commission
(31:53):
for the Blind, I said what's thebest way to learn how to teach
cooking?
And to learn it is to go tocooking school, so I had planned
to just teach after I got donewith that.
That would just make me abetter teacher.
And then, as I said, when COVIDhit, that's how the blind
kitchen came to be.
I was looking for a way tostill be able to reach people,
(32:14):
even if I couldn't teach them inperson.
John Berry (32:16):
So the culinary school is kind of what sparked
you into cooking as you do now.
Debra Erickson (32:22):
A hundred percent, as you do now, a
hundred percent.
So Chef Earl and Chef AaronChef Earl loves barbecuing and
he's from, I think, northCarolina and he is excellent at
it.
And they had a big, giant greenegg.
I had never seen one before andthey allowed me to experiment
on that.
So no, that was absolutely.
(32:45):
And growing up in Indiana,girls didn't barbecue.
The girls stayed in the kitchenand did the salads and got
things ready and the men did thebarbecuing and took all the
credit for everything.
But it just wasn't a femalerole thing to do.
So culinary school really didspark it in me.
It's like, oh, this is fun,yeah, so culinary school really
did spark it in me.
It's like, oh, this is fun.
John Berry (33:06):
Right on, I was sitting here and I was thinking
because there's something that Iuse frequently that would be, I
would think, for help for thoseblind, and it is because when
you're cooking, sometimes we'llcook something for not just
minutes or even an hour, butseveral hours.
Debra Erickson (33:24):
Yeah.
John Berry (33:24):
Half of a day.
So I use a device that wouldactually be helpful for this,
and I use it just so it willalert me if the temperature gets
too hot, if the temperaturegets too cold, and it has an
alarm that goes off and that'sfor just.
You know, regular people likeme.
But something like that wouldmost definitely come in handy,
(33:44):
because you know regular peoplelike me.
But something like that wouldmost definitely come in handy
because you know you can go takea nap and you can just have an
app on your phone and it'llit'll start buzzing and it'll
say you know, what it doesn't dois it doesn't say.
What you have to do is click onit and you look at it and it
will tell you the temperature.
Is the fires went out in thegrill.
You need to check it.
(34:05):
Oh, wow, everything is done, orit'll give you information
about.
You can determine how far alongthe cook has gone, how hot the
fire is.
But it would be cool in thiscase is to if it were to
actually not just you know setan alarm and you got to click on
it to look at it, but itactually not just you know set
(34:26):
an alarm and you got to click onit to look at it, but it
actually told you, you know,spoke out and maybe there is a
way, I don't know, but if itwere to speak out to you and
tell you what you need to know,that would be something real
beneficial I think.
Debra Erickson (34:38):
I think can you tell me the brand name or not?
So much.
John Berry (34:41):
Sure, it's, the one I have is Weber.
Debra Erickson (34:46):
Weber, the Weber one.
Okay, there's another one.
John Berry (34:49):
I've heard of called iMeet.
Debra Erickson (34:50):
I've heard of that one too.
Okay, so the question aboutthese are and you're right, I
need to look into this Are theyaccessible to screen readers on
your phone?
Because my phone, I use it witha blank screen completely and I
use swipes and gestures andsome apps are very accessible
and others aren't.
So I you know what I'm going toorder.
(35:12):
I'll probably order both brandsand see if they're accessible
and if they are, you're right,that would be an excellent,
excellent addition.
John Berry (35:19):
Yeah, that is something.
I don't know about theaccessibility, but it would be
something, if it's, that shouldbe requested or told that it
needs to be, because that wouldbe a definitely helpful tool.
The one I have is actually aWeber Connect.
Debra Erickson (35:34):
Weber Connect.
John Berry (35:35):
Yeah, you can actually connect it, or you
basically charge it and you canconnect it to Wi-Fi.
You can even monitor it awayfrom your home or in your home,
but when it's sitting there, youcan have a probe inside your
grill so it'll keep.
It'll keep known, you'll beable to continue to know the
temperature in the grill, andyou can also.
(35:56):
It has three others that youcan put in.
You know, a piece of chicken, apiece of pork, and it will,
each probe, tell you thetemperature of each one.
You can look at your phone anddetermine what the temperature
of each piece of food is, aswell as the temperature inside
the grill.
But what I don't know that itdoes I haven't tested it is
(36:18):
whether or not it would speak itto you.
I don't know of any way, butthat would be something I think
would be helpful.
I agree, because something likethat, if I was unable to see it
, it would be something thatwould definitely affect my
ability or ways.
Or you know, I cook things for18 hours and you just sleep and
(36:39):
the alarm will go off ifsomething's going wrong.
Debra Erickson (36:43):
Oh, wow, that would be very helpful.
Now let me ask you a question.
So the probe is in the meat, orthe four probes are in four
different meats?
Is it tethered?
Is it the wire hooked to yourphone?
I mean, like, is there aplatform?
John Berry (37:03):
The Weber Connect one actually has and you can use
pretty much any.
It is a wire.
So each you've got a devicethat you set next to your grill
and it has four probes that youput the wires in and you can put
it in, say, probe one and youcan put it in a meet.
You can put it in probe two,you can put it in a different
(37:25):
meet or a different location ofthe same meat.
Then they have specific probesto where you can put a third one
in and it just snaps on thegrill and it just kind of lays
there like a temperature probeso you can monitor the actual
temperature in the grill.
Debra Erickson (37:41):
Oh, wow, okay, yeah, that would be helpful.
John Berry (37:44):
I'm not sure about the iMeet, when I've just heard
of that.
There are some I know there'sMeter and a couple others that
don't have a wire.
You just plug it directly intothe meet and some of them will
actually the same probe detectthe temperature in the meet and
the temperature outside the meetbecause it's got a temperature
outside of it.
And that might even be better,as I wouldn't be experienced to
(38:08):
say for sure, but both of thoseare pretty good devices and if
it was just something to thinkabout, that I thought of.
Debra Erickson (38:17):
I appreciate that.
Thank you, yeah, it would beimportant to know if you ran out
of propane.
John Berry (38:24):
And a story about I don't know.
It's been several years.
We had a lightning storm comethrough.
I'm here in Oklahoma, so we'resubject to storms all the time,
and at that time I was using apellet grill, so the electricity
needed to run.
And I have a pellet grill, Ihave a charcoal I've got about
five or six out there andlightning came through and it
(38:47):
had kicked it off.
At that time I didn't have theweber connect or anything and I
was in bed, white, put it on at,say, 10 o'clock, slept right
through the storm, woke up atsix in the morning, seven in the
morning.
It hadn't even cooked at sometime during it triggered it.
That was a 15-pound brisket.
(39:07):
As you said earlier, you don'twant to get sick.
We ended up tossing it becausewe didn't.
It didn't look like it had beencooked that long.
It could have been sittingthere for hours.
Debra Erickson (39:17):
Right at room temperature.
Yeah.
John Berry (39:20):
And everything else in there.
So those are definitely gooddevices and, once again, like we
talked earlier, are really goodfor anybody in multiple
situations.
Debra Erickson (39:32):
Yep, for sure.
We have another device that'skind of interesting.
I'll just.
That's kind of the same thing.
So it's for indoors, it's forboiling and it's called a boiler
disc and it rattles when liquidis boiling in a pan.
So it's not meant for peoplethat can't see, but it's nice
for me to know I can hear whenthe water starts to boil.
So if I'm going to poachsomething or steam it, I can
(39:55):
start the timer when I hear it.
I'll know exactly and I don'thave to take the lid off and
lose the temperature.
And so if I'm doing somethinglike tamales or steaming
something, if I don't hear thatthing rattling, I know it's a
problem because that means I'verun out of water.
So it's kind of the sameconcept you know, right,
everything's dried up.
(40:16):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
John Berry (40:19):
Now, sometimes you will also want to cook something
.
How would you go about?
Because we were cooking.
Actually, when I say outdoorcooking, we do it all.
I baked a cake recently and putit in a pan, put it on our
grill outdoors and had it grillup.
But you've got to put a lot of,we had to put different
ingredients in it and everything.
(40:40):
Is there an easy way for you tobe able to determine?
You know that would be hard forme because you got to put a
couple of tablespoons of thisand that.
How are you able to put arecipe together easily?
Debra Erickson (40:55):
Yeah, so we have several tools, so one of them.
If we're talking like oil, youneed it's often said put two
tablespoons of oil into the castiron pan or whatever, and we
have a thing called an automeasure spout and it goes on top
of a bottle.
It's got to fit the bottlesnugly.
But I use wine bottles, emptywine bottles, and then I put the
(41:17):
oil in there and then I turn itupside down over the bowl or
the pan I want to go in andit'll dispense exactly one
tablespoon of liquid and thenit'll stop automatically even if
I'm holding it upside down.
They're meant for liquorbottles.
If you go into bars you seethey have so that the bar
manager can control his costs.
(41:38):
So they have different amountsthat they dispense.
But the most helpful one wasfor one tablespoon.
For us I'm looking for ateaspoon one, but I guess nobody
wants one teaspoon of alcohol.
Apparently it's not a size.
John Berry (41:54):
Well, alcohol item turned into that.
That's pretty cool, because Iknow when I turn it upside down
I put a lot more than onetablespoon, so that would be
real nice to have.
Debra Erickson (42:06):
Yeah, so it measures.
It for me is the bottom line.
But we have other measuringcups and spoons that like, if
it's a third of a cup it hasthree dots on the stainless
steel handle.
If it has four, then it's aquarter cup or a quarter
teaspoon.
But the nice thing about theliquid ones is they are shaped
like ladles.
So when you're pouring theliquid ones is they are shaped
(42:28):
like ladles, so when you'repouring the liquid and you're
transferring it, you make sureit's underwater.
Like if I let's say I'm doing,let's say, hot sauce and I need
a quarter teaspoon, that's aterrible thing.
But let's say I need a teaspoonof hot sauce in this particular
sauce that I'm doing.
I will find the one that hasone dot on it.
Now I know it's a teaspoon andI put in this little pitcher and
(42:49):
then I overflow the cavity ofthe spoon with the liquid, not
the little pitcher but thecavity of the spoon.
So that way now if I lift it upand I'm lifting straight up,
because the handle's towards theceiling lifts straight up like
a ladle and I don't hearanything drop off, I know I have
exactly a level teaspoon thereand then I can deposit that into
(43:11):
the recipe and now the overflowthat's in that little pitcher.
I have a funnel that we sendwith it too, and you can just
pour the overflow back into thebottle using the funnel, and you
haven't wasted anything and youknow your measurements are
accurate.
So there are ways to do this.
John Berry (43:29):
Okay, so it measures it, and then you don't waste
anything and put it back.
Now, for me myself, I would bethe guy because I'm just crazy,
spicy crazy.
I would put it in there and sayI just go ahead and throw the
rest in too.
I pick it on a double the notch, so I'm very bad about that.
Something says put in what wasthat one cayenne peppers.
(43:50):
I'll say, nah, let's throw somehabanero in instead.
Debra Erickson (43:54):
Oh, you're more of a.
I'm Irish.
I'm trying to increase my spicemeter because my mother's
spiciest sauce was ketchup, soI'm still trying to educate my
palate to be able to handle them.
John Berry (44:08):
And the cooking.
It's a pretty good community.
I've made tons of barbecuefriends.
We're just cooking people andwe kind of just have a.
I have a ton of online friendsfrom doing this and they would
be, and that's something thatare you trying to evolve into a
little bit.
Debra Erickson (44:28):
Oh yeah, oh yeah , absolutely.
That's talking aboutcook-alongs.
You know things like that,because the other thing I'll put
that out there is if you havevision loss, it gets really hard
to get to places, especially.
You know transportation isalways a barrier and then you
know you're in a place.
You don't know where's thebathroom.
You know transportation isalways a barrier and then you
know you're in a place.
You don't know where's thebathroom.
You know a lot of people becomesocially isolated because life
(44:53):
does become more challenging.
It's not impossible, but thereare problems to be solved that
you didn't used to have to solve.
So if I could get a communitygoing whether it's around
barbecuing or making pies or youknow whatever, or cook alongs
or cooking contests, I think alot of isolated individuals
(45:14):
would find a lot of pleasure inthat and connecting with other
people with vision loss thatwant to cook as well.
John Berry (45:23):
What an amazing conversation.
The Blind Kitchen that wasDebra theblindkitchen.
theblindkitchen.
.
Be You can visit her website attheblindkitchencom.
You can email her at info attheblindkitchencom.
Be sure and check her out andkeep on firing up that grill.
Announcement (45:47):
Be sure and check her out, and keep on firing up
that grill.
Thank you for listening to theOkie Smokin' Podcast.
Episodes drop every Monday.
Don't forget to follow thispodcast or you might miss out on
some delicious creations.
You can also find us on ourwebsite, okiesmokincom, and on
YouTube and other social mediaplatforms.
Until next time, keep firing upthat grill.
The best emails I get are from people who
thought that part of theiridentity was gone.
You know, they're the one thatcooks on Memorial Day.
They do all the grilling for,you know, fourth of July, and
now they thought they'd never beable to do it again.
And somehow they find the blindkitchen and so it gives people
(00:22):
that part of their identity back.
Announcement (00:25):
Time to fire up that grill.
From smoked pork to smashburgers, outdoor cooking just
tastes better.
This is the Okie Smokin'Podcast, and here's your host,
John Barry.
John Berry (00:45):
Welcome back to the Okie Smokin Podcast.
Today I've got a very specialguest, a chef as well, an
executive chef and the founderof the Blind Kitchen.
Her name is Debra Erickson.
She was one of the only blindstudents in her class, a former
instructor with OregonCommission for the Blind.
How are you doing today?
(01:06):
Welcome in.
Debra Erickson (01:08):
I'm doing good.
Thank you for having me.
John Berry (01:10):
Now.
So how did you get the idea forthe Blind Kitchen?
Debra Erickson (01:14):
Well, I am blind myself and I like to teach, and
I graduated from culinaryschool in 2019.
And in March of 2020, and so Iwas teaching at the Commission
for the Blind, teaching legallyblind adults how to cook safely.
And then COVID hit, and so Ifound myself at home for a year
(01:35):
and a half not able to doteaching.
So I went ahead and organizedall the different things I'd
learned, and grilling was partof what we had to cover in.
You know, all types offabrication of meats and things
like that, so I knew a lot aboutadaptive cooking tools.
If you do have vision loss andyou want to grill and in fact,
(01:58):
we have a grilling collection onthe website Quite a few tools
have to do specifically withoutdoor barbecuing, grilling,
smoking.
John Berry (02:07):
And are those tools different?
That you need for the grill orfor just a regular indoor oven
and stove, or different?
Debra Erickson (02:14):
No outdoor grill .
So if I'm cooking indoors, ifI'm broiling or something in my
oven, I have a certain pair ofgloves.
There's a different one foroutside, because your arms are
over, directly, often over theheat source In the kitchen.
You can avoid putting yourhands in the oven, but you can't
outside putting because it'sgoing to be over the coals or
over the flame.
So the tools are specificallyfor outdoor grilling and
(02:38):
barbecuing.
Some of them.
John Berry (02:41):
Right, because I know if you're using the oven
you can just gently, you know,maybe pull it closer to you and
just reach in and grab the potor pan without actually going
over the fire and on the grill.
You don't really have thatoption.
Debra Erickson (02:56):
You're exactly right.
That's why the gloves aredifferent.
John Berry (03:00):
Gloves have to be longer?
What if you have some kind of asearing up or you know,
sometimes the fire can get alittle too hot.
Is there a way for you toidentify that?
Debra Erickson (03:13):
It definitely can.
You can hear it usually, andcertainly you can feel it.
And so then you would have thecontrols marked and it's very
easy to do it.
They're called bump dots.
Of the controls marked and it'svery easy to do it.
They're called bump dots andyou put them in predictable
places like maybe at 300, maybeat 350, maybe at 400.
And that way, if I'm doing it,depends on your controls.
(03:33):
But if I'm doing a dial, I haveto know where the tip of the
dial is pointing to and itusually forms a point.
They're almost all manufacturedthat way, and so if I want the
350, I'm going to go until itlines up with that second bump
dot that is located on the grillitself.
So that's how I control thetemperature and so if I need to
bring it down, I bring it down.
(03:56):
And the other thing is that avery small percentage of people
who are legally blind arecompletely blind.
It's a very, very small portion.
Most people do have lightperception.
So if the light gets brighteror aflame, as you're talking
about, we do have some visualinformation.
It won't be as clear as yours,but it'll still be information
(04:19):
that's useful to us to help usmake sure we can keep doing what
we still love to do.
John Berry (04:23):
Right and I assume you would use your, you would
listen and you could probablystart to hear it ramp up.
You know, because when you getthe, you do have some flame
noise coming out of it that youcan detect and, of course, the
heat of it as well.
Debra Erickson (04:38):
Sure, you would use all three of those senses
and whatever vision you, ifyou're lucky enough to have some
.
John Berry (04:50):
What are some of the more common fears that you
would suspect someone?
Debra Erickson (04:52):
visually impaired would have when cooking
in the kitchen or on the grill.
Okay, so for the grillspecifically, I mean we could
talk about preparation cutting,and people are afraid of cutting
themselves and burningthemselves, of embarrassing
themselves by looking messy or,you know, uncoordinated, or also
by producing unattractive foodfor their guests.
You know, I'm handing you aplate of food, I can't see it.
(05:14):
But for grilling I do want tostick to that.
It's mostly fear of burningyourself or fear of not being
able to manipulate the food onthe grill, not to know when to
do it and not to know how to doit.
So I'll tell you about some ofthe information I'll be giving
you is based on tools, and someof them are just strategies.
(05:38):
So another fear people have ismaking people sick, and you know
because we undercook the food,like especially poultry or
seafood.
So there is a tool out therethat was not made for blind
people.
It's called a talkingthermometer, and mostly it was
created for nighttime grillingwhen you can't see the display
(06:02):
very well.
Most of these have a backlighton the display, but it's still
very hard for a lot of people tosee at night, and so that's why
this talking thermometer wascreated and you can toggle
between Celsius or Fahrenheitand all you have to do is push a
button an educated guess as tohow close in the center it is,
(06:22):
but it's an educated guess whenyou're doing it, even if you can
see perfectly well.
You can't see into the meat,but you put it and then you
press the button and it'll tellyou if your chicken's at 165 or
not, whether it's safe toconsume.
Because most of us, if we areafraid of making our family or
friends sick, you're gonnaovercook the food to be safe.
(06:43):
But this talking thermometerlets me cook.
Get the same information you'regetting through your eyes,
through my ears.
So, plus, if I do have, youknow, any vision loss or if it
is dark and I can't see well inthe dark and I got to get my
face close to the display, nowmy eyes are near the food, my
(07:03):
nose is, my mouth is.
It's not a safe place to be.
So if you can get theinformation through your ears, I
think everybody should do that.
John Berry (07:13):
Right and, like you said, it's a kind of a guess of
where you're going and even whenyou can see it, you might want
to put it in a couple differentlocations of it, because when
you read it you may get adifferent temperature and you
could put it, you know, in acouple of different locations
and make sure that it's cookedthoroughly in multiple locations
if you're cooking a bigger itemon the grill.
Debra Erickson (07:35):
No, you're exactly right, because you want
to.
It's the thickest part, closestto the bone, of that cut of
meat is going to be the lastpart to cook, so you want to
make sure that you're getting itinto the right spaces.
But, absolutely, multipleprobings are important.
John Berry (07:51):
And you mentioned that that talking thermometer is
made for everyday people atnighttime rather than those
visually impaired.
Which of the tools would yousay are actually for maybe
everybody, not even thinking ofthose that need it in that
manner?
Debra Erickson (08:10):
Okay for grilling specifically.
I think all of them are madefor the general population.
They just lend themselves wellto cooking with vision loss.
So I'll tell you about anotherone A problem.
So flipping a hamburger,flipping a steak, it can be
(08:31):
difficult if you have visionloss because it's hard to slide
it underneath and get it.
So, number one, I've got thegrill gloves.
I'm sure you're familiar withthese.
They come up your arm, up yourforearm, you know, like probably
six or seven inches, and theyhave a thumb and four fingers
and they're made of cloth butthey're covered with silicone
(08:53):
designs, so that way thatsilicone helps protect you
against the heat but it keepsthe flexibility.
Have you seen gloves like that?
John Berry (09:02):
Yes, yes, I've seen what you're talking about.
Debra Erickson (09:04):
Yeah.
So those are really goodbecause they give you tactile.
But trying to get, let's see,that piece of chicken flipped
over and knowing for sure thatyou flipped it over, it's hard
to do if you can't see it.
So we have something called adouble spatula and it's made out
of stainless steel and it'sbasically if a spatula and a
(09:28):
pair of tongs had a baby.
This is what it would look like.
So you slide it under and thenthere's a second.
So that rectangle is about fourinches by three inches on the
bottom.
The rectangle on the top issmaller, probably about one inch
by two inches.
So when I get under that stakeI can use my grilling glove or I
could use a fork to hold it inplace, so I can slide it
underneath and know for sure I'munderneath it.
(09:49):
Then I gently push down withthe littler spatula on the top.
They're attached, they don'tcome apart, and now I can pick
it up, know that I have it onthe platform and then turn it
over 180 and put it back downand I'll know it's going to be
almost in exactly the same place, because I haven't moved my
hand anywhere.
So that's something that alsoisn't made for and there's a lot
(10:12):
of different versions of it onthe market, but I like the one
that has the smaller rectangleon top because it makes it
easier to deposit that hamburgeror that pork chop once you put
it down.
Another thing that I think isreally useful not made for the
blind or visually impaired, butit's called a skewer, a double
skewer, because if you'recooking, let's say you're using
(10:35):
bamboo skewers or metal skewersand you run like, let's say, for
the hardest one, let's say wehave like a row of cherry
tomatoes For the hardest one,let's say we have like a row of
cherry tomatoes.
So they're round.
As they cook on the grill theyget hotter, the moisture gets
released to steam.
It makes the hole bigger thatit's being punctured through.
(11:01):
So when you go to turn it itcan turn uselessly in the center
, and I really can't know.
But ours have two prongs comingout of them.
It has a handle and then two Ithink they're about eight-inch
prongs.
So when I stick those samecherry tomatoes I make sure they
go through.
Now it's hitting on two holes.
(11:22):
There's no way I can't turnthat 180 degrees.
It can't roll uselessly, and sothat also works really good for
like other foods that roll.
So I can put sausages or hotdogs, impale them and then have
them be a little distance apartso that they can.
You know, the heat can get inbetween them and I can put
(11:44):
depending on how thick thesausage or the hot dog is.
I can flip four of them at thesame time and know that I've
turned them 180 degrees andthey're not going to roll
between the grate or anythinglike that.
It's going to work out.
So again, this was notsomething made, but it just
lends itself well to us.
John Berry (12:04):
Yes, because I can relate.
I do grill a lot and you dohave.
We have flat tops and things orit's unlevel and you put it
there and everything rolls and Ialways move it to the right
spot, so that that's a great wayto make sure it stays where
it's supposed to.
You have an entire grilling,barbecue and kitchen kit here
(12:26):
and there's those double prongs.
Is there any one of those?
That's the?
Is the most popular one goingto be the talking thermometer
there or the gloves?
Debra Erickson (12:34):
The gloves, the talking thermometer and, not
surprisingly, there's somethingcalled a corncob cleaner.
John Berry (12:40):
Yeah, I'm looking at that.
Debra Erickson (12:42):
It is so cool and, again, not meant for the
blind or visually impaired, butit's good for so.
The other thing is is thepopulation is aging and with
aging often comes with some sortof vision loss.
It's different for everybody,but there are a lot of people
that enjoy outdoor grilling andthen once they lose you know,
macular degeneration or advancedglaucoma.
(13:05):
They don't know how to get back, and that's what this is about.
But the other thing that comeswith aging sometimes is teeth
problems, like you can't reallyeat a you know a corn cob
anymore.
So after you've grilled thecorn, or you can do it when it's
raw too, it depends on how youwant to eat it.
But you put what it is it's along tube and it's only got four
(13:26):
pieces in it to it, and it'sonly got four pieces in it to it
.
You put the corn cob, you huskit and then you get the silks
off and then you put it in andnow it's sticking up inside that
tube straight up.
The point of the corn ispointing towards the ceiling.
There is a tube, a steel tube,that has jagged little teeth on
(13:48):
the bottom.
They're sharp enough to get thecorn kernels off the cob, but
they aren't sharp enough topierce your skin, so you just
put that on the top.
Now the corn is being heldupward, you push down.
Sometimes you need to turn alittle bit.
All of the corn kernels comeoff and they stay in the tube
tube, as do the starches thatsquirt, because that can be a
(14:11):
real messy job.
And I remember when I used tobe able to see I grew up in
Indiana and we had to do a lotof canning of corns and stuff
like that and I remember it waseasy to leave half of a corn
kernel on there, you know, for awhole row.
This thing does it for youreally quick, really easy and
really cleanly, so that's apopular tool.
John Berry (14:33):
I know when you first started is barbecue and
grilling, which is really coolthat you do that.
Is it something that developed,maybe people requested, or how
did you all of a sudden decide abarbecue kit is something to go
ahead and add to yourcollection?
Debra Erickson (14:51):
Yeah, it was requested.
One guy looked at my libraryand I have things on dining out,
I have things on differentcooking methods, I have things
on labeling things and how doyou identify things.
And he said this is a greatwebsite, but you don't have
anything on barbecuing orgrilling.
I was like, oops, you're right,and so then I started.
(15:11):
My brother also has the sameeye disease I do and he grills
all the time.
He's into sous vide and allthat kind of stuff.
So he was one of my originaltesters because he's very good
at what he does.
So that's yeah, it was arequest and it's quite popular.
That's.
That's yeah, it was, it was arequest and it's quite popular.
John Berry (15:30):
So it's kind of evolving over time because you
know, in our motto here isoutdoor cooking just tastes
better.
We just love to do thiseverything outdoors.
And then as you get more peopleinvolved feedback, comments and
those kind of things you kindof fine tune it as you go along.
Debra Erickson (15:48):
Exactly right.
It's that feedback that helpsmake you better.
Is that double spatula good forpeople?
You know, maybe the handle'stoo long, maybe the handle's too
short, maybe it shouldn't bestainless steel, but so far I've
been getting really goodfeedback for these tools.
John Berry (16:05):
Yeah, I was also looking.
You have several recipes.
I like the way they're laid out.
I was looking at a couple ofthem that I would definitely try
myself and the way they go, butI also caught my eye there.
You actually have some barbecuesauce.
Debra Erickson (16:18):
I do, and that was based on a recipe from
Christine Ha.
She is a blind cook that wonthe third season of MasterChef,
and so I was trying to recreatesome of her recipes in her book
and that's where that one camefrom, so that's got a special
place in my heart.
And any kind of rubs or anykind of sauces, you can always
(16:40):
tweak it.
If you want it smokier, youcould add more smoked paprika,
or you could add liquid smoke.
If you want it sweeter, youcould add more brown sugar or
honey, or however you want tomake it your own.
But the recipes on this websiteare a good start.
John Berry (16:57):
Now, do you have any favorite grill recipe yourself,
or barbecue stories?
Debra Erickson (17:02):
Barbecue stories .
Well, yeah, one of the things Iwas learning on is I had a, so
I always have a work tray, whichis a tray that keeps everything
in one place for me.
And then I had I had thegrilling gloves, but I had a
cloth, and the cloth I had itover my shoulder while I was
(17:22):
working.
I was wearing an apron andsomehow the cloth came off and
it started on fire, and so thatwas a little bit scary.
But that's how I came up withthe grilling clips that they are
about four inches long and theyhave an alligator clip on one
end and an alligator clip on theother end, made out of
(17:43):
stainless steel.
So now I clip a cloth to myapron or to my clothing if
that's all I'm wearing, and itmoves with me, which is nice too
, and it's never going to end upin the flames.
And the other thing I do is mygrilling gloves.
It's really easy to put thosedown and then they move as
you're doing things.
But I use those grilling clipsglove clips.
(18:06):
They attach to my apron andthen they attach to the gloves,
so they move around with mewherever I go.
So I've always got them.
John Berry (18:13):
Now there was something else I saw on here
that I actually want.
I'm going to probably get these, and this would pertain to
anybody grilling or cookingindoors alone, and I actually
have a couple of cuts right nowon my finger.
Last time, about a week ago, Iwas cutting and I pricked my
finger a couple of times now onmy finger.
Last time, about a week ago, Iwas cutting and I I pricked my
finger a couple of times andyou've got I see these chain
(18:36):
mail or they're uh gloves thatyou can wear when you're cutting
so you don't have to worryabout cutting yourself, because,
uh, when you're grilling, a lotof times you'll be prepping
chicken in cubes, uh, slicing uponions to throw on smash
burgers, whatever you're doing,and are those pretty, something
you'd recommend not justvisually impaired, but anyone to
(18:58):
really have.
Debra Erickson (18:59):
Oh, absolutely.
And the way I learned aboutthose.
I was working in a commercialkitchen.
I was the only blind personthere, the only blind cook.
But the insurance companyrequired all cooks to wear them
before I'd ever gotten there,before they even knew they were
going to have me apply, and soall the cooks had to wear them.
Chain mail is a good word, butthese are much thinner than that
(19:22):
.
But they're a level five, whichmeans they're flexible, but
they're not going to be reallybulky Like the heat gloves and
the grill gloves are quite bulky.
They're flexible, but they'renot going to be really bulky
like the heat gloves and thegrill gloves are quite bulky.
They're going to be thicker.
So the other thing that thing isgood for is remember I was
telling you I need to make sureif I'm cooking like a chicken
(19:45):
breast or anything, I need tohave that thermometer tip at
least at one point in when I'mprobing it and I do do it
multiple times is that I want tohave it in the thickest part of
the meat, closest to the bone,depending on how it applies.
That cut glove is not expectedto protect me against heat, but
(20:08):
it does.
It's better than my skin, so Ican put that cut glove on and
now I've got more flexibility,more tactile information and I
can actually touch that meat forjust a couple seconds because
eventually the heat's going toget to me.
It's not meant to protect, butthat's the other good use for
that.
So, like when I'm flipping thathamburger I'm talking about,
(20:29):
I'll put that glove on my lefthand so that I can hold the
hamburger and then put thatunderneath it, and then I know
I've got it on the platform.
It just gives me more tactileinformation, even if the food is
hot.
John Berry (20:40):
So what you're saying is we have like a
blackstone griddle, a 22 inchgriddle that you heat up and
sometimes while we're cooking onit, it we can cut additional
food on it now, not directly onthe the griddle itself, but we
have a kind of a heat resistantit's.
It's kind of like a cuttingboard, but it's it's got feet
(21:01):
gets on top of it and you cancut with that.
So if you had those gloves onand on that cutting board,
you're kind of close to thegriddle, they're going to
protect you from the heat andcutting yourself kind of all in
one.
Debra Erickson (21:14):
Oh, I'll have to check that out.
That sounds like something thatwould be useful.
John Berry (21:18):
Yeah, because you can get on there and say you
want to dice up some additionalonions or something, and you can
do it right beside there andjust go ahead and slide it right
onto the griddle.
Food and things like that.
Debra Erickson (21:30):
Without messing up your nonstick surface.
It sounds like.
John Berry (21:33):
Yes.
Debra Erickson (21:34):
Yeah.
So just a little kind of funtip here.
Have you ever seen a GeorgeForeman grill?
John Berry (21:41):
Yes.
Debra Erickson (21:43):
I think we may even have one.
So that is hugely popular withthe blind community, mostly
because, well, usually they onlyhave one temperature.
Some of them have more controls, but they usually are at 350
and it's preset, so we don'thave to worry about the dials or
controls.
When it's plugged in, it's on.
If it's heated up, it's 350.
(22:03):
But the other nice thing for alot of people is you don't have
to flip the food.
It closes up like a suitcase,and so that's a real popular
thing that I've used, especiallywith people that wanted the
grilling experience per se, butthey were afraid of cooking over
an open flame and it's not foreverybody and it is intimidating
(22:27):
.
Until you do it a few times andrealize that you really aren't
going to get burnt.
That's a really good tool, andI wanted to also tell you
something that you might like.
So in culinary school I learnedthis they have something out
there called finger cuts in afirst aid kit, so we sell these
(22:49):
little first aid kits withBand-Aids.
The problem is, if you just cutyourself, you know just a little
bit and you just want to put aBand-Aid on it.
When you're cooking or grilling, your hands often get wet,
either from the steam or fromthe sweat or, you know, from
washing your hands.
So if you can't see, especially, or if it's dark outside, that
rubber band could fall down intothe food or the Band-Aid and
(23:12):
you don't even know it's there.
So what this does, it's kind oflike I'm just going to say the
word.
You put the rubber band on orthe Band-Aid on and now your
finger's dry, it's on, but nowyou want to get back to cooking
quickly.
It's kind of like a fingercondom.
That's the best way that itunrolls over your finger and
(23:33):
it's tight.
It's uncomfortably tight, butthat's so that it holds on, that
you're not going to lose it,and that enables you to keep
that bandaid on and get back tocooking really quickly without
worrying about that bandaidfalling out.
John Berry (23:47):
Oh, real cool.
Debra Erickson (23:50):
Yeah, it is a good one.
John Berry (23:51):
Now you have all these adaptive tools.
Now do you also do any classesor coaching or anything like
that?
Or you pretty much just givethe product to help those that
need it?
Debra Erickson (24:05):
Right, the products are the main thing, but
I also do workshops and publicspeaking for people and I also
do like presentations atconferences to just help get the
word out and let people knowthat it's there.
John Berry (24:18):
And if someone was per se into grilling or
something, what is the oneadvice or what would you
recommend to them?
Debra Erickson (24:27):
So it depends on their skill level and their
comfort and their vision.
But there's another tool Ididn't tell you about that I
think people will like, and it'scalled the grill basket and
basically I think it's about 16inches wide and 12 inches tall
and about one inch deep and it'sliterally like a suitcase.
(24:47):
But it's a grill basket.
It's the.
You know the I can't think ofthe right word it's grilling
material.
You put it in, it's going to beexposed to the flame or the
heat source, whatever your heatsource is, and then you can put
like four hamburger patties inthere, or you can put four small
(25:08):
petite steaks, if you wanted toput them in there, and then you
close up the basket and youlock it.
But now remember, air and heatcan get all around this basket,
and so you cook it for theamount of time you want for your
steak, maybe four minutes onone side, depending on the
thickness and how cold it is atthe time you put it on, and then
(25:28):
you can flip it over.
All four of them are containedwithin that basket and they all
flip at the same time, so that'sa pretty handy one to have too.
Where the food is contained,you know where it's at, it's
predictable, and that's a prettygood tool for people to have,
especially people that are justbeginning, that aren't wanting
to be chasing their food allover the grill if it rolls, or
(25:51):
something like that started.
John Berry (25:52):
That would be very helpful for, do you think, most
of the people.
Are you helping those that arevery new and beginners trying to
cook blind, or are theseintermediate older, more
(26:16):
experienced people?
Debra Erickson (26:18):
I'd go intermediate to more experienced
, because if you lose yourvision, grilling is probably not
going to be the first place yougo to for a new hobby.
But most of these are peoplethat were able to see and love
doing it for their friends andfamily and now, because of
vision loss, age-related orotherwise, they don't know how
(26:40):
to get back to it.
How can I possibly, like youwere talking, those flare-ups of
the flames if I can't see it?
How am I going to control it?
And so these tools help them,get the confidence that they can
do it, and you get into itslowly again.
But you know, the best emails Iget are from people who thought
(27:01):
that part of their identity wasgone.
You know, they're the one thatcooks on Memorial Day, they do
all the grilling for, you know,4th of July, and now they
thought they'd never be able todo it again.
And somehow they find the blindkitchen, and so it gives people
that part of their identityback, and that's a good thing to
(27:23):
hear, because I like to dothings that I used to like to do
when I could see better.
Of course I can't drive, but Ican cook, I can do other things,
so I would say most of thepeople that purchase this are
either people or agencies thatteach people with vision loss
how to cook, or people that usedto be able to cook and now want
(27:45):
to get able to cook and nowwant to get back to doing what
they love to do.
John Berry (27:49):
Have already been enthusiasts of cooking or
grilling or whatever what it isthey're doing and unable to, and
are looking to be able to bringthat passion back.
Debra Erickson (27:58):
Exactly right.
I mean, think about yourself.
You obviously have a passionfor this, and if you were to
lose your vision, you'd lose abig piece of who you are in
terms of grilling.
John Berry (28:08):
Now you mentioned people can email you.
Well, could we go ahead?
And what do you want to giveout your email or information
website?
Debra Erickson (28:17):
Sure.
So you can go totheblindkitchencom and it's got
a lot of detailed descriptionsand it's a very easy website to
navigate, because we use screenreaders and magnifiers and if we
have pop-up ads and differentthings going on it makes you
insane.
So it's a very clean websiteand you can write to me at info
(28:37):
at theblindkitchencom and if Idon't know the answer I'll ask
my brother, because he knows alot more about it than I do and
is there anything you're workingon now?
John Berry (28:47):
I mean, you know we talked about how you originally
started and then grilling was asuggestion or a recommendation,
or you need to be able to helpme do this.
Is there new things evolvingthat you haven't done yet?
That the future?
What is the future of the blindkitchen?
Debra Erickson (29:05):
Well, the future of the blind kitchen I want to
create a community around it,kind of like you've done.
You know where people can cometo one place.
I don't know if that looks likea podcast or if it looks like a
cook-along or whateversomething like that, but yeah,
the idea is to create acommunity.
But the next thing forbarbecuing and grilling is I
(29:26):
want to get sous vide up there,because that is one of the
safest way to cook.
You know that chicken is 165 or162, whatever you chose to put
that in when you put it in thewater the vacuum sealed bag in
the water, and so it's one ofthe safest ways for blind people
(29:49):
to be able to cook.
It's already you know.
You already know it's safe toconsume.
You've programmed it to whereyou want it, to what makes sense
, and so I really think thatwould be a valuable technique
for people with vision loss, andso I'm going to push that out
when I can.
But that requires purchasingequipment, or there's actually
(30:12):
wands out there that you can get, but not many of them are
accessible visually, so it'sgoing to take a bit of expense
of me getting different tools tofind out which ones are going
to be the most accessible forpeople with vision loss, and I
cater to the most blind personin the world.
I don't.
I want anyone that visits mywebsite to be able to use any of
(30:35):
the tools that are on it.
It's really important.
John Berry (30:38):
Of course, you've been doing all this, blind
yourself for the duration ofthis whole project.
Debra Erickson (30:44):
Oh yeah, oh yeah .
The blind kitchen was nothing.
I've been a teacher in the past, a teacher of adults.
So when I did lose most of myavailable vision, I didn't know
what I wanted to teach.
I knew I didn't want to go backto teaching what I was teaching
because I thought it'd befrustrating.
And so I was in a cooking classand, my dear friend, I said
(31:10):
this is fun, I enjoy this andmaybe I could teach cooking.
And then immediately I said Ican't, I don't know how to cook.
I don't know how to teachcooking Because my mom I'm one
of 12 kids, so my mom didn'thave time to put each of her
seven daughters in front of thestove.
So my contributions to dinnerwere like peeling 10 pounds of
(31:31):
potatoes, setting the table andcleaning up.
So when I raised my family, Igot things out of boxes and cans
.
I could follow instructions andyou know macaroni and cheese or
hamburger helper.
But I really had no love forcooking and no real interest in
it.
But when that light bulb wenton in my head at the Commission
(31:53):
for the Blind, I said what's thebest way to learn how to teach
cooking?
And to learn it is to go tocooking school, so I had planned
to just teach after I got donewith that.
That would just make me abetter teacher.
And then, as I said, when COVIDhit, that's how the blind
kitchen came to be.
I was looking for a way tostill be able to reach people,
(32:14):
even if I couldn't teach them inperson.
John Berry (32:16):
So the culinary school is kind of what sparked
you into cooking as you do now.
Debra Erickson (32:22):
A hundred percent, as you do now, a
hundred percent.
So Chef Earl and Chef AaronChef Earl loves barbecuing and
he's from, I think, northCarolina and he is excellent at
it.
And they had a big, giant greenegg.
I had never seen one before andthey allowed me to experiment
on that.
So no, that was absolutely.
(32:45):
And growing up in Indiana,girls didn't barbecue.
The girls stayed in the kitchenand did the salads and got
things ready and the men did thebarbecuing and took all the
credit for everything.
But it just wasn't a femalerole thing to do.
So culinary school really didspark it in me.
It's like, oh, this is fun,yeah, so culinary school really
did spark it in me.
It's like, oh, this is fun.
John Berry (33:06):
Right on, I was sitting here and I was thinking
because there's something that Iuse frequently that would be, I
would think, for help for thoseblind, and it is because when
you're cooking, sometimes we'llcook something for not just
minutes or even an hour, butseveral hours.
Debra Erickson (33:24):
Yeah.
John Berry (33:24):
Half of a day.
So I use a device that wouldactually be helpful for this,
and I use it just so it willalert me if the temperature gets
too hot, if the temperaturegets too cold, and it has an
alarm that goes off and that'sfor just.
You know, regular people likeme.
But something like that wouldmost definitely come in handy,
(33:44):
because you know regular peoplelike me.
But something like that wouldmost definitely come in handy
because you know you can go takea nap and you can just have an
app on your phone and it'llit'll start buzzing and it'll
say you know, what it doesn't dois it doesn't say.
What you have to do is click onit and you look at it and it
will tell you the temperature.
Is the fires went out in thegrill.
You need to check it.
(34:05):
Oh, wow, everything is done, orit'll give you information
about.
You can determine how far alongthe cook has gone, how hot the
fire is.
But it would be cool in thiscase is to if it were to
actually not just you know setan alarm and you got to click on
it to look at it, but itactually not just you know set
(34:26):
an alarm and you got to click onit to look at it, but it
actually told you, you know,spoke out and maybe there is a
way, I don't know, but if itwere to speak out to you and
tell you what you need to know,that would be something real
beneficial I think.
Debra Erickson (34:38):
I think can you tell me the brand name or not?
So much.
John Berry (34:41):
Sure, it's, the one I have is Weber.
Debra Erickson (34:46):
Weber, the Weber one.
Okay, there's another one.
John Berry (34:49):
I've heard of called iMeet.
Debra Erickson (34:50):
I've heard of that one too.
Okay, so the question aboutthese are and you're right, I
need to look into this Are theyaccessible to screen readers on
your phone?
Because my phone, I use it witha blank screen completely and I
use swipes and gestures andsome apps are very accessible
and others aren't.
So I you know what I'm going toorder.
(35:12):
I'll probably order both brandsand see if they're accessible
and if they are, you're right,that would be an excellent,
excellent addition.
John Berry (35:19):
Yeah, that is something.
I don't know about theaccessibility, but it would be
something, if it's, that shouldbe requested or told that it
needs to be, because that wouldbe a definitely helpful tool.
The one I have is actually aWeber Connect.
Debra Erickson (35:34):
Weber Connect.
John Berry (35:35):
Yeah, you can actually connect it, or you
basically charge it and you canconnect it to Wi-Fi.
You can even monitor it awayfrom your home or in your home,
but when it's sitting there, youcan have a probe inside your
grill so it'll keep.
It'll keep known, you'll beable to continue to know the
temperature in the grill, andyou can also.
(35:56):
It has three others that youcan put in.
You know, a piece of chicken, apiece of pork, and it will,
each probe, tell you thetemperature of each one.
You can look at your phone anddetermine what the temperature
of each piece of food is, aswell as the temperature inside
the grill.
But what I don't know that itdoes I haven't tested it is
(36:18):
whether or not it would speak itto you.
I don't know of any way, butthat would be something I think
would be helpful.
I agree, because something likethat, if I was unable to see it
, it would be something thatwould definitely affect my
ability or ways.
Or you know, I cook things for18 hours and you just sleep and
(36:39):
the alarm will go off ifsomething's going wrong.
Debra Erickson (36:43):
Oh, wow, that would be very helpful.
Now let me ask you a question.
So the probe is in the meat, orthe four probes are in four
different meats?
Is it tethered?
Is it the wire hooked to yourphone?
I mean, like, is there aplatform?
John Berry (37:03):
The Weber Connect one actually has and you can use
pretty much any.
It is a wire.
So each you've got a devicethat you set next to your grill
and it has four probes that youput the wires in and you can put
it in, say, probe one and youcan put it in a meet.
You can put it in probe two,you can put it in a different
(37:25):
meet or a different location ofthe same meat.
Then they have specific probesto where you can put a third one
in and it just snaps on thegrill and it just kind of lays
there like a temperature probeso you can monitor the actual
temperature in the grill.
Debra Erickson (37:41):
Oh, wow, okay, yeah, that would be helpful.
John Berry (37:44):
I'm not sure about the iMeet, when I've just heard
of that.
There are some I know there'sMeter and a couple others that
don't have a wire.
You just plug it directly intothe meet and some of them will
actually the same probe detectthe temperature in the meet and
the temperature outside the meetbecause it's got a temperature
outside of it.
And that might even be better,as I wouldn't be experienced to
(38:08):
say for sure, but both of thoseare pretty good devices and if
it was just something to thinkabout, that I thought of.
Debra Erickson (38:17):
I appreciate that.
Thank you, yeah, it would beimportant to know if you ran out
of propane.
John Berry (38:24):
And a story about I don't know.
It's been several years.
We had a lightning storm comethrough.
I'm here in Oklahoma, so we'resubject to storms all the time,
and at that time I was using apellet grill, so the electricity
needed to run.
And I have a pellet grill, Ihave a charcoal I've got about
five or six out there andlightning came through and it
(38:47):
had kicked it off.
At that time I didn't have theweber connect or anything and I
was in bed, white, put it on at,say, 10 o'clock, slept right
through the storm, woke up atsix in the morning, seven in the
morning.
It hadn't even cooked at sometime during it triggered it.
That was a 15-pound brisket.
(39:07):
As you said earlier, you don'twant to get sick.
We ended up tossing it becausewe didn't.
It didn't look like it had beencooked that long.
It could have been sittingthere for hours.
Debra Erickson (39:17):
Right at room temperature.
Yeah.
John Berry (39:20):
And everything else in there.
So those are definitely gooddevices and, once again, like we
talked earlier, are really goodfor anybody in multiple
situations.
Debra Erickson (39:32):
Yep, for sure.
We have another device that'skind of interesting.
I'll just.
That's kind of the same thing.
So it's for indoors, it's forboiling and it's called a boiler
disc and it rattles when liquidis boiling in a pan.
So it's not meant for peoplethat can't see, but it's nice
for me to know I can hear whenthe water starts to boil.
So if I'm going to poachsomething or steam it, I can
(39:55):
start the timer when I hear it.
I'll know exactly and I don'thave to take the lid off and
lose the temperature.
And so if I'm doing somethinglike tamales or steaming
something, if I don't hear thatthing rattling, I know it's a
problem because that means I'verun out of water.
So it's kind of the sameconcept you know, right,
everything's dried up.
(40:16):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
John Berry (40:19):
Now, sometimes you will also want to cook something
.
How would you go about?
Because we were cooking.
Actually, when I say outdoorcooking, we do it all.
I baked a cake recently and putit in a pan, put it on our
grill outdoors and had it grillup.
But you've got to put a lot of,we had to put different
ingredients in it and everything.
(40:40):
Is there an easy way for you tobe able to determine?
You know that would be hard forme because you got to put a
couple of tablespoons of thisand that.
How are you able to put arecipe together easily?
Debra Erickson (40:55):
Yeah, so we have several tools, so one of them.
If we're talking like oil, youneed it's often said put two
tablespoons of oil into the castiron pan or whatever, and we
have a thing called an automeasure spout and it goes on top
of a bottle.
It's got to fit the bottlesnugly.
But I use wine bottles, emptywine bottles, and then I put the
(41:17):
oil in there and then I turn itupside down over the bowl or
the pan I want to go in andit'll dispense exactly one
tablespoon of liquid and thenit'll stop automatically even if
I'm holding it upside down.
They're meant for liquorbottles.
If you go into bars you seethey have so that the bar
manager can control his costs.
(41:38):
So they have different amountsthat they dispense.
But the most helpful one wasfor one tablespoon.
For us I'm looking for ateaspoon one, but I guess nobody
wants one teaspoon of alcohol.
Apparently it's not a size.
John Berry (41:54):
Well, alcohol item turned into that.
That's pretty cool, because Iknow when I turn it upside down
I put a lot more than onetablespoon, so that would be
real nice to have.
Debra Erickson (42:06):
Yeah, so it measures.
It for me is the bottom line.
But we have other measuringcups and spoons that like, if
it's a third of a cup it hasthree dots on the stainless
steel handle.
If it has four, then it's aquarter cup or a quarter
teaspoon.
But the nice thing about theliquid ones is they are shaped
like ladles.
So when you're pouring theliquid ones is they are shaped
(42:28):
like ladles, so when you'repouring the liquid and you're
transferring it, you make sureit's underwater.
Like if I let's say I'm doing,let's say, hot sauce and I need
a quarter teaspoon, that's aterrible thing.
But let's say I need a teaspoonof hot sauce in this particular
sauce that I'm doing.
I will find the one that hasone dot on it.
Now I know it's a teaspoon andI put in this little pitcher and
(42:49):
then I overflow the cavity ofthe spoon with the liquid, not
the little pitcher but thecavity of the spoon.
So that way now if I lift it upand I'm lifting straight up,
because the handle's towards theceiling lifts straight up like
a ladle and I don't hearanything drop off, I know I have
exactly a level teaspoon thereand then I can deposit that into
(43:11):
the recipe and now the overflowthat's in that little pitcher.
I have a funnel that we sendwith it too, and you can just
pour the overflow back into thebottle using the funnel, and you
haven't wasted anything and youknow your measurements are
accurate.
So there are ways to do this.
John Berry (43:29):
Okay, so it measures it, and then you don't waste
anything and put it back.
Now, for me myself, I would bethe guy because I'm just crazy,
spicy crazy.
I would put it in there and sayI just go ahead and throw the
rest in too.
I pick it on a double the notch, so I'm very bad about that.
Something says put in what wasthat one cayenne peppers.
(43:50):
I'll say, nah, let's throw somehabanero in instead.
Debra Erickson (43:54):
Oh, you're more of a.
I'm Irish.
I'm trying to increase my spicemeter because my mother's
spiciest sauce was ketchup, soI'm still trying to educate my
palate to be able to handle them.
John Berry (44:08):
And the cooking.
It's a pretty good community.
I've made tons of barbecuefriends.
We're just cooking people andwe kind of just have a.
I have a ton of online friendsfrom doing this and they would
be, and that's something thatare you trying to evolve into a
little bit.
Debra Erickson (44:28):
Oh yeah, oh yeah , absolutely.
That's talking aboutcook-alongs.
You know things like that,because the other thing I'll put
that out there is if you havevision loss, it gets really hard
to get to places, especially.
You know transportation isalways a barrier and then you
know you're in a place.
You don't know where's thebathroom.
You know transportation isalways a barrier and then you
know you're in a place.
You don't know where's thebathroom.
You know a lot of people becomesocially isolated because life
(44:53):
does become more challenging.
It's not impossible, but thereare problems to be solved that
you didn't used to have to solve.
So if I could get a communitygoing whether it's around
barbecuing or making pies or youknow whatever, or cook alongs
or cooking contests, I think alot of isolated individuals
(45:14):
would find a lot of pleasure inthat and connecting with other
people with vision loss thatwant to cook as well.
John Berry (45:23):
What an amazing conversation.
The Blind Kitchen that wasDebra theblindkitchen.
theblindkitchen.
.
Be You can visit her website attheblindkitchencom.
You can email her at info attheblindkitchencom.
Be sure and check her out andkeep on firing up that grill.
Announcement (45:47):
Be sure and check her out, and keep on firing up
that grill.
Thank you for listening to theOkie Smokin' Podcast.
Episodes drop every Monday.
Don't forget to follow thispodcast or you might miss out on
some delicious creations.
You can also find us on ourwebsite, okiesmokincom, and on
YouTube and other social mediaplatforms.
Until next time, keep firing upthat grill.
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