April 14, 2024 • 40 mins
Challenge your preconceptions and join in a respectful exploration of the ethical parallels that bind us, despite divergent paths. We confront the stereotypes casting shadows over the peaceful spirituality of pagans, dissecting historical contexts and biblical scriptures to shed light on commonalities with Christian ethics, like environmental guardianship and the pursuit of social justice. Without a whisper of judgment, we promote an interfaith dialogue that aims to dispel fears and forge a path towards mutual respect. By recognizing the shared values and dispelling myths, this episode is a testament to the power of understanding and the beauty of diverse religious expressions standing in harmony.
Website
The Pagan Project
Facebook
Instagram
Youtube
Etsy
Elder Futhark Runebook
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Old Gods and
New Pagans.
Today's episode is on bridgingthe gap explaining pagan beliefs
to Christians.
Alright, so we're going to kindof go over a little bit what
was last episode Specificallyabout coming out of the broom
closet.
So if you haven't listened tothat, please, you know, I
(00:38):
encourage you to go back andlisten to it as well, because we
discussed, you know, if youshould tell anyone about your
pagan practice, why you shouldtell them who you should tell
how to do it and kind of what tosay.
All right, so today we're goingto take it a bit further.
In talking about explainingpagan beliefs to Christians
specifically, it's important tounderstand and respect diverse
religious perspectives.
(00:59):
So I encourage you to always berespectful when speaking about
this and kind of avoid anyoutright hostility.
I believe in open conversationsand transparency when it comes
to this sort of thing.
All right, so the first partwe're going to discuss
understanding paganism.
We're going to hit on thedefinition of paganism, as we've
(01:20):
discussed in previous episodes.
As we've discussed in previousepisodes, but just in general,
it's a diverse array ofspiritual beliefs and practices
that often center around areverence for nature.
Polytheism is often a part ofpaganism, as well as various
rituals honoring ancienttraditions, but this varies
widely across the differentpaths that are out there.
(01:44):
Paganism encompasses a diversearray of spiritual beliefs and
practices that have their rootsin ancient pre-Christian
traditions.
The historical origins ofpaganism can be traced back to
the polytheistic religions ofthe ancient world, including
those of Mesopotamia, egypt,greece, rome, northern Europe,
other parts of Africa and eventhe Americas North and South and
(02:07):
Central America.
There's so many differentpractices, so many different
belief systems around the worldthat we are, as a society, are
really starting to kind of bringback to light and start opening
those practices up where theywere shut down for a period of
time.
We're really working hard onbringing a lot of that stuff
back and creating a little bitmore understanding and openness
(02:28):
about it.
Many of these earlycivilizations they worshipped a
pantheon of gods, goddessesassociated with aspects of
nature, fertility and even thehuman experience.
In Europe, pre-Christianpaganism manifested in the form
of indigenous belief systemssuch as Celtic Druidism, norse,
(02:50):
heathenry, germanic Paganism andmany other paths and practices
that were associated.
These traditions were deeplyinterconnected with the natural
world and often involved variousrituals, ceremonies, seasonal
specifically seasonal festivalsto honor the cycles of earth and
the deities associated withthem.
(03:10):
With the spread of Christianitythroughout Europe and other
parts of the world, manyindigenous pagan traditions were
gradually supplanted orassimilated into the dominant
Christian culture.
However, elements of paganbelief and practice still
persisted, often blending withthose Christian rituals and
folklore to form syncretictraditions.
So we can kind of dissect someof the even the modern Christian
(03:35):
traditions and find a lot ofpagan practices kind of mixed in
.
One reason that is is likeearly pagans they didn't really
(03:56):
see their belief systems as areligion, as like a lot of the
more modern view of Christianity, judaism, islam and some of the
other belief systems out there.
For most of pre-ChristianEurope their belief systems were
considered more like culture,practices, traditions, more so
than like a set doctrine ofreligious specific ideals.
In the modern era, paganismexperienced a revival and a
resurgence known as theneo-pagan movement.
(04:16):
Beginning in the 19th and 20thcenturies, individuals and
groups sought to reconnect withand revive those ancient pagan
beliefs and practices, which Ifind really awesome.
They drew inspiration fromhistorical sources, folklore and
mythology.
This neo-pagan movementencompassed a wide range of
(04:37):
traditions, including thebeginning of Wicca, a resurgence
of Druidry, modern heathenryand even forming various
eclectic forms of paganspirituality.
Some of these werereconstructions of previous and
older traditions, some likeWicca and some of the more
eclectic forms of paganism.
(04:58):
They were new, they werecreated specifically around this
.
In the pagan community you'llfind some people that are like
really diehardreconstructionists.
They want to go specifically bywhatever the ancient practice
was and in the sense of a lot ofpeople that follow the Norse
practice, really they reallyfocus on a very small, narrow
(05:22):
timeframe of, like the VikingAge, of what they were doing
during the Viking Age, of whatwhere they were doing during the
Viking Age, and that's thepractice that they encompass.
Where, you know, some peoplewill reconstruct and go back
even further and, you know,toward animism and some will,
you know, will bring in thesenewer, modern, neo-pagan
movements like Wicca and some ofthe eclectic paths.
(05:45):
And I'm not here to tell youone is right or wrong.
It's important to find a paththat's right for you, but you
should absolutely be true toyourself and true to the path
you choose.
If you choose one of theancient paths you know, say you
want to strictly say Celtic, um,druidry, druidry, you want to
(06:07):
go down that path.
It's important to be true tothat path and not uh, for for
lack of a better term pervertthat path with some new age and
you know you putting in your um,upg or your unverified personal
gnosis or ideals into that pathand try to sell it off, as this
is the way it should be whenit's something that you created
(06:30):
or something you added to it.
So it's important to be true tothat path when explaining this
to others as well.
Paganism continues to evolveevery day and adapt in response
to contemporary social,continues to evolve every day
and adapt in response tocontemporary social, cultural
(06:51):
and environmental concerns.
While it's rooted in ancienttraditions, modern paganism
embraces diversity, creativityand really that individual
spiritual exploration.
It offers a rich tapestry ofbeliefs, practices, community
connections for those seeking adeeper connection to the natural
world and the sacred mysteriesof existence.
That's my example of paganism.
(07:14):
That's the quickest way I'vebeen able to really kind of
explain paganism and where it'scome from and where it's going
to Christians.
Some common misconceptions aboutpaganism, particularly within
the Christian community, is oneis that all pagans are witches
(07:35):
or Wiccans.
While Wicca is a form of modernpaganism, not all pagans are
Wiccans, not all Wiccans arewitches and not all witches are
Wiccan.
That's a tongue twister.
I'll have to figure that oneout, because paganism
encompasses a wide range ofspiritual traditions including,
like I said, druidism, heathenry, hellenism and so many others.
(07:57):
Wicca is not the only path.
Another common misconception isthat paganism is satanic or evil
.
This is a misconception rootedin misunderstandings and
stereotypes and a lot of justfear.
(08:17):
Paganism is a diverse umbrellaterm for various earth or
nature-centered spiritualpractices.
It does not involve worshippingSatan or engaging in any evil
practices.
Most pagans don't even believein a Satan or an all-evil figure
anyways.
Another misconception is thatall pagans worship multiple gods
(08:38):
as equals.
While some pagan traditions arepolytheistic and look at
multiple gods, not all pagansworship multiple gods.
Some may be monotheistic,duotheistic you know, believing
in a single god and goddess oreven atheistic.
There are some pagans out therethat are atheists.
They don't believe in a centralgod figure or any gods that are
(09:00):
in this all-powerful level.
They believe in nature and theyfocus on worshiping nature and
their own personal spiritualityrather than the deity worship.
Another misconception paganismis a homogenous religion.
Paganism encompasses a broadspectrum of beliefs and
practices, making it far fromthe monolithic religion.
(09:21):
Different pagan traditions mayhave vastly different rituals,
deities and beliefs, twodifferent pagan paths that
evolved in different parts ofthe world.
They might have some type of anancestor worship like, say,
africa and North America.
They may have both haveancestor worship as part of the
practice, but they may do it invery different ways and for
(09:44):
different reasons as well.
Another misconception is thatit's about spells and magic.
While magic and spell work areelements in some pagan
traditions, they are not a solefocus of paganism.
Even in those traditions, manypagans prioritize a spiritual
connection with nature, theircommunity, personal growth and
(10:08):
just simply ethical living overmagical practices.
Another belief is that pagansare 100% anti-Christian.
While some pagans may havenegative views towards certain
aspects of Christianity, much ofthat is because of religious
trauma that they experiencedearly in life.
But not all pagans areanti-Christian.
(10:30):
Many pagans coexist peacefullywith people of other faiths and
respect the diverse religiousbeliefs.
I even know someChrist-centered pagans out there
that they worship their Christdeity, but they also believe
that Christ is a deity amongmany and that they follow a lot
(10:58):
of pagan practices, but theyreally focus on the teachings of
Christ and try to build theirlife around that, which is
really cool.
Another misconception paganismis a new age fad.
While there have been aresurgence of interest in
paganism over the recent decades, especially in the West.
Pagan traditions have ancientroots that predate Christianity,
(11:20):
and even the Christian beliefsystem comes from Judaism, which
comes from a polytheisticpantheon of gods, which is
essentially pagan in its own way.
It just evolved out of that.
One of my favorites is thatpagans practice ritual nudity.
(11:41):
Pagans practice ritual nudity.
While nudity may be a part ofritual practice in some pagan
paths traditions, it's not auniversal practice amongst most
pagans.
Ritual practices vary widelybetween different pagan paths
and many do not include nudityat all.
But yeah, do you have some funwith it?
(12:02):
Some people believe thatpaganism is a primitive belief
system or backward belief system.
This misconception stems from amisunderstanding of pagan
beliefs and practices and it wasoften used as a way to
dehumanize early pagans.
Even the term paganism or pagan, as I've mentioned in previous
episodes, refers to countrydwellers, as I've mentioned in
(12:27):
previous episodes, refers tocountry dwellers.
It was like the way that was aderogatory term for the
Christians that lived in thecity, or really the higher class
people that lived in the city,to kind of denigrate the people
that lived out in the country,like, oh, those are those
hillbillies out there, thepagans.
They have their weird beliefsand traditions.
We follow our thing and they dotheir weird stuff out there.
So it's really important tounderstand that paganism is not
(12:48):
a primitive or backward beliefsystem, because it often
emphasizes environmentalism,equality, personal
responsibility and values thatare not inherently primitive or
backward.
They just are what they are.
Just are what they are.
(13:10):
This is one that we've beentrying to address a lot more in
recent years.
Is that paganism isspecifically for white Europeans
.
The Nazi movement really kindof hijacked a lot of pagan
symbolism and such, so it reallykind of brought out the whole
white supremacist aspect of somepeople and they use paganism as
(13:33):
like an excuse for that, orthey try to say, oh, your blood
has to be pure to follow thisparticular path or that
particular path.
Paganism in general is a global, and people of all ethnicities
and cultural backgrounds havepracticed various pagan
traditions before history.
While some pagan groups mayhave predominantly white
(13:55):
membership, there are diversepagan communities all around the
world.
There are some problematicorganizations out there that are
very specific.
I believe there's even one thatwants you to do a DNA test to
prove your ancestry.
Like that's kind of silly in myopinion, but that's what they
do and we're here to tell youthat you know that's not the way
that you have to do this.
(14:18):
Let's talk about some of the keybeliefs and practices with
various pagan traditions likeWicca, druidry, heathenry and
others.
So there are different levelsof paganism and different paths
that you can choose.
There's polytheism or pantheism.
Polytheism obviously believesin multiple gods, poly being
(14:41):
multiple theistic gods.
This kind of contrasts with themonotheistic belief in
Christianity but it emphasizesworship of multiple gods.
Some belief systems aremultiple aspects of God, but
many pagan paths do have Paliismas a form of their ritual or
(15:03):
their worship.
Some belief systems arepantheistic, meaning that they
do not worship multiple gods butsee the divine as part of
nature that you know, say like aMother Earth kind of deity.
It's not so much as a god butit is something worthy of
honoring and worship.
Or some pantheistic might saythat the universe is that.
(15:28):
One key belief with most pagansis a reverence for nature.
The Bible says Pagans place astrong emphasis on nature
worship and theinterconnectedness of all living
beings humans, animals, plants,rivers, mountains, etc.
Pagans may view the naturalworld as sacred and see divinity
manifested in those elements,such as trees, animals, bodies
of water.
As I said, while Christianityalso teaches stewardship of the
(15:51):
earth, pagan beliefs oftenprioritize a direct connection
with nature.
Beliefs often prioritize adirect connection with nature
rather than just kind of a sidequest, as you could say.
One other kind of key beliefwith paganism is an acceptance
of diversity, because paganstend to embrace the diversity in
(16:13):
religious beliefs and practices, the diversity in nature, where
you have all these differentplants, animals, insects,
reptiles, amphibians.
You have all these differentaspects of nature, all these
diverse aspects of nature thatreally work together and connect
with each other in differentways.
Pagans embrace this among theirpaths by valuing individual
(16:37):
spiritual experiences andinterpretations, while this may
contrast with someinterpretations of Christianity,
which may assert that theexclusivity of their faith and
view of other beliefs is a falseor misguided or misguided.
So while pagans are a littlebit more accepting of diversity
(16:58):
of pagan paths because noteveryone's path is the exact
same that does contrast somewith the many interpretations of
Christianity.
So you know, keep that in mind.
Many pagans do.
As I said before, magic is notthe biggest part of paganism but
(17:20):
it is a part of paganism.
Many pagans embrace magic andthe ritual aspect of it as part
of their spiritual path.
This can include things likespell work, divination,
ceremonial rites aimed atmanifesting desired outcomes or
connecting with the divine.
While some Christiandenominations may engage in
(17:42):
ritualistic practices, magic isgenerally not accepted or
practiced in mainstreamChristianity practitioners
within the pagan path.
A great way to explain that toa Christian and to you know kind
of compare that to Christianpractices would be to compare it
(18:04):
to prayer specifically.
So, like a lot of like thespell work and magic that pagan
practitioners use is similar ina sense to how Christians pray.
It's all about the mindset.
It's all about what you'reasking, maybe the ritual within
it.
A lot of Christians I've heardpray.
(18:25):
They have a very strictstructure in how they pray,
particularly when blessing foodor opening a ceremony.
They have their own rituals andpractices.
They do that and it's reallynot much different than the way
that pagans incorporate ritualor spell work in their practice
as well.
Pagans tend to focus on personalresponsibility and empowerment,
(18:47):
more so than believing thatthere is one all-seeing God or
all-evil figure out therepulling the strings and
manipulating things.
Pagans tend to focus more onpersonal responsibility on that,
rather than relying on divineintervention or external
(19:09):
authority figures to help, wereally focus on our own self and
our own wisdom and our ownspiritual growth to get us
through situations.
In this next little sectionwe're going to kind of address
some Christian perceptions ofpaganism and we're going to kind
of combat those with somecontext interpretations and I'm
(19:31):
actually going to go into a fewChristian scriptures that are
really common amongst Christiansthat kind of push against
paganism in a lot of ways.
So I'm going to go into this alittle bit.
It's important to approach thiswith a nuanced understanding of
historical context,specifically these biblical
(19:54):
passages, because over timethese phrases and things are
over-translated, mistranslatedand altered as they're said over
and over again and newinterpretations come about.
So we're trying to go back intosome historical context with
these.
And, yeah, let's dive in.
(20:14):
One of the most commonscriptures I see that are thrown
out against paganism or pagansin general is Exodus 22, 18.
Thou shalt not suffer a witchto live trials as a way of
(20:41):
justification of killing offpeople that were deemed witches
or what they believed werewitches or what they just
claimed were, so that they couldmanipulate people.
This passage is often cited tojustify the persecution of
individuals who they believe arepracticing forms of magic,
divination or anything deemed aswitchcraft by some authorities.
However, the term witch in thiscontext may not accurately
(21:02):
reflect the practices or beliefsof any of the ancient pagans.
The Hebrew word translated aswitch in this verse I'm not
going to try to pronounce thisword, you can look it up.
This word you can look it upMore likely referred to someone
who engages in what they believewere harmful sorcery,
necromancy or manipulation ofpeople, rather than simply a
(21:25):
practitioner of paganspirituality.
In this time, when this passagewas originally written, basic
divination and what we considersimple spells were even part of
the culture of the people whowrote these passages, and so
(21:45):
like to say that all magic wasbad or all witchcraft was bad is
a little misguided, becauseeven then, like even like
hundreds, if not a couplethousand years, like even after
Christianity became a thing,there were still a great number
of Christians that would drawsigils and have little spells
that they would have worked outto protect their home or to do
(22:06):
different things.
We see a lot of that ritualstill in Christianity today, but
specifically, even back then,there was a lot more of it.
So when this passage was used,it was most likely used to refer
to, again, people that wouldpractice things like necromancy
or try to manipulate people orwould do harmful spells.
This was a negative type ofwitch, you can say like a dark
(22:29):
witch or a bad witch, but notnecessarily referring to all
people who practice paganism.
Referring to all people whopractice paganism, an
alternative view of this wouldbe a prohibition against harmful
or manipulative practices thatinfringed upon the well-being
and autonomy of others.
It really aligns with theethical principles of many pagan
(22:51):
traditions, which emphasizeagain, personal responsibility
and respect for others, freewill and even early jews, who
use this passage.
That's in the original hebrew.
That's what it was, I believe,was meant to interpret, but
again, modern interpretationshave kind of perverted this and
(23:12):
changed it for their own use.
(23:34):
Another passage that's commonlyused by Christians to denigrate
pagans or Wiccans, and such isDeuteronomy 18.10-12,.
I believe Let no one be foundamong you who sacrifices their
son or daughter in the fire, whopractices divination or sorcery
, interprets omens, engages inwitchcraft or casts spells, or
who is a medium or spiritist orwho consults with the dead.
In historical context, in theancient Israelite society, there
(24:00):
were concerns about practicessuch as child sacrifice,
divination, necromancy, whichwere associated with the current
culture of the region.
Remember Abraham was willing tosacrifice his own child to his
god before an angel stopped him,before an angel stopped him.
So when a lot of Christianspoint fingers at paganism, about
(24:22):
human sacrifice and things likethat, you may want to bring
that up in a very respectfultone, don't be combative about
it, but it's important toremember that human sacrifice
was also a part of theirreligion at one time too.
I believe this passage and itstime and its context was an
effort of the religious leadersto start to create a sense of
(24:43):
morality within their religionto reflect a changing time.
Just like now we look at allthese past practices like human
sacrifice, child sacrifice, asinherently bad.
It was around this time thatthis was being written that
peoples around the world startedfeeling the same way.
So this was their attempt atsaying, hey, we don't need to do
(25:07):
this anymore either, and thatwas, you know, along their
methods, and it was againperceived as morally harmful on
these things.
So an alternativeinterpretation would be rather
than viewing these prohibitionsas a blanket condemnations of
all forms of divination orspiritual practices, they can be
(25:29):
better understood within thespecific cultural or religious
context of ancient Israel.
The emphasis here is onavoiding practices that were
perceived as spiritually ormorally harmful, rather than
condemning all alternativespiritual paths outright.
So yeah, so with thosepractices you know that are,
rather with these scripturesthat a lot of Christians use to
(25:52):
condemn paganism, it's reallygood to look into its original
context and it wasn't so muchcondemning the practices of all
peoples, it was condemning thosethat were perceived as morally
bad, so like human sacrifice,necromancy, etc.
(26:14):
So the context is importantwhen discussing these sorts of
things and when talking aboutpagan practices with Christians,
it's important to kind of bringthese things out and have open
dialogue and understanding howthese things kind of came about.
Some more Christian perceptionsabout paganism.
(26:36):
They really stem frommisunderstandings, stereotypes
and fears that have beenperpetuated over centuries.
Let's look at some of theseperceptions and discuss why they
are not based on facts.
Particularly in modern times,paganism was an association with
Satanism or Satan in general.
(26:57):
Many Christians equate paganismwith Satanism.
They see it as the exact samething, because they just don't
understand viewing both asinherently evil or diabolical.
Reasons behind this perceptionis that this association likely
stems from historical efforts byearly Christian authorities to
(27:18):
demonize and suppress anynon-Christian belief systems,
including pagan beliefs.
Additionally, the use ofsymbols and imagery associated
with nature and the occult insome pagan traditions may
contribute to this perception.
Paganism and Satanism aredistinct, distinct belief
systems, completely separate,with different origins,
(27:38):
principles and practices.
While satanism often involves aworship or veneration of a
satan figure as a deity likelucifer, paganism encompasses a
wide range of spiritualtraditions that that emphasize
reverence for nature, polyismand rituals honoring ancient
traditions.
Most pagans do not worshipSatan, subscribe to Satan
(28:01):
beliefs or even believe that aSatan figure even exists.
A lot of the early beliefsassociating Satan with pagans
stemmed from ancient nature kindof chaotic deities like Pan and
such, whereas the early imagesof Satan were altered to look
(28:22):
more like an evil version of Pan.
Pan was a satyr with goathooves and horns, and while the
early images of Satan had himwith clawed feet, the church
started changing those images togive Satan their Satan figure
cloven hooves, to make him lookmore like a goat man, to give
that association, basicallysaying this is our evil figure
(28:45):
and doesn't he often look likethis other you know thing that
pagans worship, this pan figure.
So they're obviously the samething.
And that was, you know, likeessentially early Christian
propaganda and that was, youknow, like essentially early
Christian propaganda and it'simportant to know that.
You know with historicalcontext how these traditions
have been kind of perverted andchanged over time.
(29:07):
So it's interesting to see howthese traditions and things have
changed over time in order topervert or demonize a lot of
pagan practices by the authoritythat was the early Catholic
Church or other religiousleaders.
Other common Christianmisconceptions is the fear of
(29:27):
magic and witchcraft withinpaganism.
Many Christians view paganismas synonymous with witches,
witchcraft and magic, which areoften portrayed as dark or
malevolent forces.
Media, tv movies like the Craftand things like that don't do a
good job at helping this.
They all perceive these witchesas communing with Satan or
(29:50):
doing deals with the devil, andthat again comes from Christian
propaganda over time where thesestories and traditions have
been altered and perverted forthe public eye, which it's
changing it for the public eyerather than going to what actual
witches or actual Wiccans andpagans truly believe.
It just really just condemnedeverything like paganism,
(30:12):
herbalism, ritual magic aswitchcraft by the authorities
and led to a widespread fear andpersecution of the individuals
practicing these traditions.
An example we have are theSalem Trials and you know a lot
of stuff that happened throughEurope.
This fear has been perpetuatedthrough literature, folklore.
Like I said, media portrayalsthat sensationalize and demonize
(30:34):
these pagan beliefs and ritualpractices.
While some pagans may engage inpractices commonly associated
with magical witchcraft, such asspellwork or divination, these
practices are not inherentlymalevolent or harmful.
Even most pagans will viewharmful or malevolent spells or
magic as if, you know, aChristian views somebody cursing
(31:06):
them out or asking harm tobefall them, just like, you know
, no good Christian would prayfor God to smite someone or, you
know, burn their crop or burntheir house.
You know pagans aren't going touse ritual spell work for that
either, and anybody who does iskind of pushed out of society.
Just like the Christians wouldpush somebody out of their
church that was inherentlynegative and bad and wanting to
(31:26):
hurt people.
Pagans would do the same thing,and it's important to
understand that on both sides ofthat line, because many pagans
view magic as natural and anethical tool for personal
transformation, healing,spiritual growth, rather than as
(31:48):
a means for causing harm orcontrolling others.
Another Christian perceptionregarding paganism is that they
regard pagans as lacking moralsor any ethical guidelines or
rules, and see pagans as morallyrelativistic or even hedonistic
.
Reasons behind this perceptionis again from those old
(32:10):
misunderstandings of paganethics, those old
misunderstandings of culturewhich you know pagan ethics
which prioritize principles suchas a respect for nature,
personal responsibility and harmreduction.
Just because we don't have anadherence to a strict set of
commandments or dogma Doesn'tmean we don't have morals.
(32:32):
The emphasis on individualautonomy and diverse spiritual
paths within paganism may beconstrued as moral relativism,
but it's really more of anunderstanding of diversity of
belief systems that canintermingle and that do have
some understanding between thosedifferent systems.
Many pagans emphasize valuessuch as environmental
(32:54):
stewardship, social justice,compassion for all living beings
.
While pagan ethics may differfrom those found in mainstream
Christianity, there are groundedprinciples of integrity,
reciprocity and respect for theinterconnectedness of all life.
Common Christian perceptions ofpaganism.
Common Christian perceptions ofpaganism.
(33:17):
So kind of concluding thoseperceptions.
Many Christian perceptions ofpaganism reflect historical
biases, cultural stereotypes,misconceptions that are really
not based on a factualunderstanding of pagan beliefs
and practices but more on fearand misunderstanding.
By fostering this dialogue,this education and mutual
(33:39):
respect between individuals ofdifferent faith, traditions,
different beliefs, we can workto overcome these
misunderstandings and promotegreater understanding and
acceptance of religiousdiversity.
Religious diversity is a greatthing.
Of religious diversity,religious diversity is a great
thing.
We should respect otherpeople's beliefs and their
(34:05):
belief systems and just striveto understand them as opposed to
demonizing them and pushingthem to the fringes of society.
Another thing to consider whenspeaking to Christians or really
anyone of another faith aboutpagan spirituality is trying to
find that common ground, findyour shared values.
So shared values betweenpaganism and Christianity, such
(34:25):
as environmental stewardship,community belief, community help
and involvement.
A lot of churches believe inhelping their surrounding
community with like food drivesand things like that.
You know pagans have the samepursuit of community connection.
We both pursue personalspirituality.
(34:45):
We have common ground fordialogue, cooperation with each
other.
I see churches all the time.
You know you have the Baptistand the Pentecostal over there
that they might have, you know,slightly different beliefs.
You know they kind of fallunder that same Christian banner
but they have slightlydifferent beliefs.
But they can come together fortheir community.
And I believe pagans andChristians can also come
(35:06):
together for their community aswell and help each other grow
spiritually and to foster thatunderstanding and that
acceptedness between each other.
And that's only going to happenwith cooperation and open
dialogue and respectful dialogue.
(35:30):
Some things to also considerwith finding common ground is
acknowledge the diversity ofbeliefs and practices within
both pagan and Christiancommunities, diversity of
beliefs and practices withinboth pagan and Christian
communities.
Recognize individualdifferences and try to avoid any
broad generalizations likepagans are all Satanists or
Christians are all hypocrites.
So get rid of those destructivegeneralizations and try to
(35:53):
understand the individualdifferences and the individual
similarities between both sidesof that line.
Interfaith cooperation is ahuge thing, like I said, you
know, like the pagans and theChristian groups coming together
with mutual respect andcollaboration for their
communities to help people tohelp the planet, and
(36:16):
collaboration for theircommunities to help people to
help the planet, despite thetheological differences.
And it's important to keep thatdialogue open, open-minded
dialogue, respectfulcommunication and fostering
understanding to build thatbridge between the different
religious traditions is a hugething and our communities really
need to get together to, youknow, bridge that gap and bring
(36:36):
things together.
Um, some kind of tips forbridging that gap would be like
building some strategies forinitiating respectful
conversations.
Talk within your communityabout how to uh approach those
from the other side of that line, so the Christians, the, any,
the Abrahamic faiths there areeven some infighting between
(36:58):
different pagan groups.
So really work within yourcommunity to foster an
understanding of everythingoutside that community in order
to one understand thesimilarities but also the
differences and to findrespectful grounds to have those
dialogues open.
So I know that was a lot andI'm trying to cut this a little
(37:19):
short.
But things that you know, wetalked about here and I would
really like to, you know, put alittle emphasis on, is when
you're speaking to people ofother belief systems,
particularly Christians, muslims, et cetera.
There's some things that youshould.
You know some steps that youshould really focus on when that
(37:40):
dialogue.
One is helping theunderstanding aspect between
Christianity and paganism andtry to keep that dialogue open
to help each other understandboth sides of that dialogue.
Another thing is address thoseperceptions and misperceptions
(38:01):
of paganism or even Christianityand kind of talk about like be
informed and research thedifferences and specifically the
similarities between those soyou can find some of that common
ground in order to keep thatdialogue open and definitely
address those misconceptions andexplain why those
(38:22):
misconceptions are eitherharmful or just not factual or
based on any logic at all.
And of course, we need to findthat common ground between each
other and find ways of bridgingthe gap in between the different
belief systems.
Thank you everyone for listening.
(38:42):
I invite you to follow me onsocial media.
You can find me.
You can look for Old Gods andNew Pagans.
Excuse me or find me on socialmedia.
Just search for B-E-C-O-R-A-T-H.
You can leave messages,comments.
I'm open.
I read everything everyonesends me.
(39:02):
I don't always reply, but Iabsolutely try to read
everything that is sent to meand I will address any questions
concerns.
If I don't know the answer, Iguarantee you I will find the
answer for you.
So if you have any questions orfeedback, definitely send it my
way.
If there's anything you want tohear me talk about, if there's
(39:23):
anything that in this episode orprevious episodes that I said
that was maybe not factual orjust wrong, bring it to my
attention.
I love to learn.
I'm open to new ideas and newdialogue.
So send that stuff my way andthank you all and keep being the
(39:44):
best part of what we do.
Thank you.
Hello and welcome to another episode of Old Gods and
New Pagans.
Today's episode is on bridgingthe gap explaining pagan beliefs
to Christians.
Alright, so we're going to kindof go over a little bit what
was last episode Specificallyabout coming out of the broom
closet.
So if you haven't listened tothat, please, you know, I
(00:38):
encourage you to go back andlisten to it as well, because we
discussed, you know, if youshould tell anyone about your
pagan practice, why you shouldtell them who you should tell
how to do it and kind of what tosay.
All right, so today we're goingto take it a bit further.
In talking about explainingpagan beliefs to Christians
specifically, it's important tounderstand and respect diverse
religious perspectives.
(00:59):
So I encourage you to always berespectful when speaking about
this and kind of avoid anyoutright hostility.
I believe in open conversationsand transparency when it comes
to this sort of thing.
All right, so the first partwe're going to discuss
understanding paganism.
We're going to hit on thedefinition of paganism, as we've
(01:20):
discussed in previous episodes.
As we've discussed in previousepisodes, but just in general,
it's a diverse array ofspiritual beliefs and practices
that often center around areverence for nature.
Polytheism is often a part ofpaganism, as well as various
rituals honoring ancienttraditions, but this varies
widely across the differentpaths that are out there.
(01:44):
Paganism encompasses a diversearray of spiritual beliefs and
practices that have their rootsin ancient pre-Christian
traditions.
The historical origins ofpaganism can be traced back to
the polytheistic religions ofthe ancient world, including
those of Mesopotamia, egypt,greece, rome, northern Europe,
other parts of Africa and eventhe Americas North and South and
(02:07):
Central America.
There's so many differentpractices, so many different
belief systems around the worldthat we are, as a society, are
really starting to kind of bringback to light and start opening
those practices up where theywere shut down for a period of
time.
We're really working hard onbringing a lot of that stuff
back and creating a little bitmore understanding and openness
(02:28):
about it.
Many of these earlycivilizations they worshipped a
pantheon of gods, goddessesassociated with aspects of
nature, fertility and even thehuman experience.
In Europe, pre-Christianpaganism manifested in the form
of indigenous belief systemssuch as Celtic Druidism, norse,
(02:50):
heathenry, germanic Paganism andmany other paths and practices
that were associated.
These traditions were deeplyinterconnected with the natural
world and often involved variousrituals, ceremonies, seasonal
specifically seasonal festivalsto honor the cycles of earth and
the deities associated withthem.
(03:10):
With the spread of Christianitythroughout Europe and other
parts of the world, manyindigenous pagan traditions were
gradually supplanted orassimilated into the dominant
Christian culture.
However, elements of paganbelief and practice still
persisted, often blending withthose Christian rituals and
folklore to form syncretictraditions.
So we can kind of dissect someof the even the modern Christian
(03:35):
traditions and find a lot ofpagan practices kind of mixed in
.
One reason that is is likeearly pagans they didn't really
(03:56):
see their belief systems as areligion, as like a lot of the
more modern view of Christianity, judaism, islam and some of the
other belief systems out there.
For most of pre-ChristianEurope their belief systems were
considered more like culture,practices, traditions, more so
than like a set doctrine ofreligious specific ideals.
In the modern era, paganismexperienced a revival and a
resurgence known as theneo-pagan movement.
(04:16):
Beginning in the 19th and 20thcenturies, individuals and
groups sought to reconnect withand revive those ancient pagan
beliefs and practices, which Ifind really awesome.
They drew inspiration fromhistorical sources, folklore and
mythology.
This neo-pagan movementencompassed a wide range of
(04:37):
traditions, including thebeginning of Wicca, a resurgence
of Druidry, modern heathenryand even forming various
eclectic forms of paganspirituality.
Some of these werereconstructions of previous and
older traditions, some likeWicca and some of the more
eclectic forms of paganism.
(04:58):
They were new, they werecreated specifically around this
.
In the pagan community you'llfind some people that are like
really diehardreconstructionists.
They want to go specifically bywhatever the ancient practice
was and in the sense of a lot ofpeople that follow the Norse
practice, really they reallyfocus on a very small, narrow
(05:22):
timeframe of, like the VikingAge, of what they were doing
during the Viking Age, of whatwhere they were doing during the
Viking Age, and that's thepractice that they encompass.
Where, you know, some peoplewill reconstruct and go back
even further and, you know,toward animism and some will,
you know, will bring in thesenewer, modern, neo-pagan
movements like Wicca and some ofthe eclectic paths.
(05:45):
And I'm not here to tell youone is right or wrong.
It's important to find a paththat's right for you, but you
should absolutely be true toyourself and true to the path
you choose.
If you choose one of theancient paths you know, say you
want to strictly say Celtic, um,druidry, druidry, you want to
(06:07):
go down that path.
It's important to be true tothat path and not uh, for for
lack of a better term pervertthat path with some new age and
you know you putting in your um,upg or your unverified personal
gnosis or ideals into that pathand try to sell it off, as this
is the way it should be whenit's something that you created
(06:30):
or something you added to it.
So it's important to be true tothat path when explaining this
to others as well.
Paganism continues to evolveevery day and adapt in response
to contemporary social,continues to evolve every day
and adapt in response tocontemporary social, cultural
(06:51):
and environmental concerns.
While it's rooted in ancienttraditions, modern paganism
embraces diversity, creativityand really that individual
spiritual exploration.
It offers a rich tapestry ofbeliefs, practices, community
connections for those seeking adeeper connection to the natural
world and the sacred mysteriesof existence.
That's my example of paganism.
(07:14):
That's the quickest way I'vebeen able to really kind of
explain paganism and where it'scome from and where it's going
to Christians.
Some common misconceptions aboutpaganism, particularly within
the Christian community, is oneis that all pagans are witches
(07:35):
or Wiccans.
While Wicca is a form of modernpaganism, not all pagans are
Wiccans, not all Wiccans arewitches and not all witches are
Wiccan.
That's a tongue twister.
I'll have to figure that oneout, because paganism
encompasses a wide range ofspiritual traditions including,
like I said, druidism, heathenry, hellenism and so many others.
(07:57):
Wicca is not the only path.
Another common misconception isthat paganism is satanic or evil
.
This is a misconception rootedin misunderstandings and
stereotypes and a lot of justfear.
(08:17):
Paganism is a diverse umbrellaterm for various earth or
nature-centered spiritualpractices.
It does not involve worshippingSatan or engaging in any evil
practices.
Most pagans don't even believein a Satan or an all-evil figure
anyways.
Another misconception is thatall pagans worship multiple gods
(08:38):
as equals.
While some pagan traditions arepolytheistic and look at
multiple gods, not all pagansworship multiple gods.
Some may be monotheistic,duotheistic you know, believing
in a single god and goddess oreven atheistic.
There are some pagans out therethat are atheists.
They don't believe in a centralgod figure or any gods that are
(09:00):
in this all-powerful level.
They believe in nature and theyfocus on worshiping nature and
their own personal spiritualityrather than the deity worship.
Another misconception paganismis a homogenous religion.
Paganism encompasses a broadspectrum of beliefs and
practices, making it far fromthe monolithic religion.
(09:21):
Different pagan traditions mayhave vastly different rituals,
deities and beliefs, twodifferent pagan paths that
evolved in different parts ofthe world.
They might have some type of anancestor worship like, say,
africa and North America.
They may have both haveancestor worship as part of the
practice, but they may do it invery different ways and for
(09:44):
different reasons as well.
Another misconception is thatit's about spells and magic.
While magic and spell work areelements in some pagan
traditions, they are not a solefocus of paganism.
Even in those traditions, manypagans prioritize a spiritual
connection with nature, theircommunity, personal growth and
(10:08):
just simply ethical living overmagical practices.
Another belief is that pagansare 100% anti-Christian.
While some pagans may havenegative views towards certain
aspects of Christianity, much ofthat is because of religious
trauma that they experiencedearly in life.
But not all pagans areanti-Christian.
(10:30):
Many pagans coexist peacefullywith people of other faiths and
respect the diverse religiousbeliefs.
I even know someChrist-centered pagans out there
that they worship their Christdeity, but they also believe
that Christ is a deity amongmany and that they follow a lot
(10:58):
of pagan practices, but theyreally focus on the teachings of
Christ and try to build theirlife around that, which is
really cool.
Another misconception paganismis a new age fad.
While there have been aresurgence of interest in
paganism over the recent decades, especially in the West.
Pagan traditions have ancientroots that predate Christianity,
(11:20):
and even the Christian beliefsystem comes from Judaism, which
comes from a polytheisticpantheon of gods, which is
essentially pagan in its own way.
It just evolved out of that.
One of my favorites is thatpagans practice ritual nudity.
(11:41):
Pagans practice ritual nudity.
While nudity may be a part ofritual practice in some pagan
paths traditions, it's not auniversal practice amongst most
pagans.
Ritual practices vary widelybetween different pagan paths
and many do not include nudityat all.
But yeah, do you have some funwith it?
(12:02):
Some people believe thatpaganism is a primitive belief
system or backward belief system.
This misconception stems from amisunderstanding of pagan
beliefs and practices and it wasoften used as a way to
dehumanize early pagans.
Even the term paganism or pagan, as I've mentioned in previous
episodes, refers to countrydwellers, as I've mentioned in
(12:27):
previous episodes, refers tocountry dwellers.
It was like the way that was aderogatory term for the
Christians that lived in thecity, or really the higher class
people that lived in the city,to kind of denigrate the people
that lived out in the country,like, oh, those are those
hillbillies out there, thepagans.
They have their weird beliefsand traditions.
We follow our thing and they dotheir weird stuff out there.
So it's really important tounderstand that paganism is not
(12:48):
a primitive or backward beliefsystem, because it often
emphasizes environmentalism,equality, personal
responsibility and values thatare not inherently primitive or
backward.
They just are what they are.
Just are what they are.
(13:10):
This is one that we've beentrying to address a lot more in
recent years.
Is that paganism isspecifically for white Europeans
.
The Nazi movement really kindof hijacked a lot of pagan
symbolism and such, so it reallykind of brought out the whole
white supremacist aspect of somepeople and they use paganism as
(13:33):
like an excuse for that, orthey try to say, oh, your blood
has to be pure to follow thisparticular path or that
particular path.
Paganism in general is a global, and people of all ethnicities
and cultural backgrounds havepracticed various pagan
traditions before history.
While some pagan groups mayhave predominantly white
(13:55):
membership, there are diversepagan communities all around the
world.
There are some problematicorganizations out there that are
very specific.
I believe there's even one thatwants you to do a DNA test to
prove your ancestry.
Like that's kind of silly in myopinion, but that's what they
do and we're here to tell youthat you know that's not the way
that you have to do this.
(14:18):
Let's talk about some of the keybeliefs and practices with
various pagan traditions likeWicca, druidry, heathenry and
others.
So there are different levelsof paganism and different paths
that you can choose.
There's polytheism or pantheism.
Polytheism obviously believesin multiple gods, poly being
(14:41):
multiple theistic gods.
This kind of contrasts with themonotheistic belief in
Christianity but it emphasizesworship of multiple gods.
Some belief systems aremultiple aspects of God, but
many pagan paths do have Paliismas a form of their ritual or
(15:03):
their worship.
Some belief systems arepantheistic, meaning that they
do not worship multiple gods butsee the divine as part of
nature that you know, say like aMother Earth kind of deity.
It's not so much as a god butit is something worthy of
honoring and worship.
Or some pantheistic might saythat the universe is that.
(15:28):
One key belief with most pagansis a reverence for nature.
The Bible says Pagans place astrong emphasis on nature
worship and theinterconnectedness of all living
beings humans, animals, plants,rivers, mountains, etc.
Pagans may view the naturalworld as sacred and see divinity
manifested in those elements,such as trees, animals, bodies
of water.
As I said, while Christianityalso teaches stewardship of the
(15:51):
earth, pagan beliefs oftenprioritize a direct connection
with nature.
Beliefs often prioritize adirect connection with nature
rather than just kind of a sidequest, as you could say.
One other kind of key beliefwith paganism is an acceptance
of diversity, because paganstend to embrace the diversity in
(16:13):
religious beliefs and practices, the diversity in nature, where
you have all these differentplants, animals, insects,
reptiles, amphibians.
You have all these differentaspects of nature, all these
diverse aspects of nature thatreally work together and connect
with each other in differentways.
Pagans embrace this among theirpaths by valuing individual
(16:37):
spiritual experiences andinterpretations, while this may
contrast with someinterpretations of Christianity,
which may assert that theexclusivity of their faith and
view of other beliefs is a falseor misguided or misguided.
So while pagans are a littlebit more accepting of diversity
(16:58):
of pagan paths because noteveryone's path is the exact
same that does contrast somewith the many interpretations of
Christianity.
So you know, keep that in mind.
Many pagans do.
As I said before, magic is notthe biggest part of paganism but
(17:20):
it is a part of paganism.
Many pagans embrace magic andthe ritual aspect of it as part
of their spiritual path.
This can include things likespell work, divination,
ceremonial rites aimed atmanifesting desired outcomes or
connecting with the divine.
While some Christiandenominations may engage in
(17:42):
ritualistic practices, magic isgenerally not accepted or
practiced in mainstreamChristianity practitioners
within the pagan path.
A great way to explain that toa Christian and to you know kind
of compare that to Christianpractices would be to compare it
(18:04):
to prayer specifically.
So, like a lot of like thespell work and magic that pagan
practitioners use is similar ina sense to how Christians pray.
It's all about the mindset.
It's all about what you'reasking, maybe the ritual within
it.
A lot of Christians I've heardpray.
(18:25):
They have a very strictstructure in how they pray,
particularly when blessing foodor opening a ceremony.
They have their own rituals andpractices.
They do that and it's reallynot much different than the way
that pagans incorporate ritualor spell work in their practice
as well.
Pagans tend to focus on personalresponsibility and empowerment,
(18:47):
more so than believing thatthere is one all-seeing God or
all-evil figure out therepulling the strings and
manipulating things.
Pagans tend to focus more onpersonal responsibility on that,
rather than relying on divineintervention or external
(19:09):
authority figures to help, wereally focus on our own self and
our own wisdom and our ownspiritual growth to get us
through situations.
In this next little sectionwe're going to kind of address
some Christian perceptions ofpaganism and we're going to kind
of combat those with somecontext interpretations and I'm
(19:31):
actually going to go into a fewChristian scriptures that are
really common amongst Christiansthat kind of push against
paganism in a lot of ways.
So I'm going to go into this alittle bit.
It's important to approach thiswith a nuanced understanding of
historical context,specifically these biblical
(19:54):
passages, because over timethese phrases and things are
over-translated, mistranslatedand altered as they're said over
and over again and newinterpretations come about.
So we're trying to go back intosome historical context with
these.
And, yeah, let's dive in.
(20:14):
One of the most commonscriptures I see that are thrown
out against paganism or pagansin general is Exodus 22, 18.
Thou shalt not suffer a witchto live trials as a way of
(20:41):
justification of killing offpeople that were deemed witches
or what they believed werewitches or what they just
claimed were, so that they couldmanipulate people.
This passage is often cited tojustify the persecution of
individuals who they believe arepracticing forms of magic,
divination or anything deemed aswitchcraft by some authorities.
However, the term witch in thiscontext may not accurately
(21:02):
reflect the practices or beliefsof any of the ancient pagans.
The Hebrew word translated aswitch in this verse I'm not
going to try to pronounce thisword, you can look it up.
This word you can look it upMore likely referred to someone
who engages in what they believewere harmful sorcery,
necromancy or manipulation ofpeople, rather than simply a
(21:25):
practitioner of paganspirituality.
In this time, when this passagewas originally written, basic
divination and what we considersimple spells were even part of
the culture of the people whowrote these passages, and so
(21:45):
like to say that all magic wasbad or all witchcraft was bad is
a little misguided, becauseeven then, like even like
hundreds, if not a couplethousand years, like even after
Christianity became a thing,there were still a great number
of Christians that would drawsigils and have little spells
that they would have worked outto protect their home or to do
(22:06):
different things.
We see a lot of that ritualstill in Christianity today, but
specifically, even back then,there was a lot more of it.
So when this passage was used,it was most likely used to refer
to, again, people that wouldpractice things like necromancy
or try to manipulate people orwould do harmful spells.
This was a negative type ofwitch, you can say like a dark
(22:29):
witch or a bad witch, but notnecessarily referring to all
people who practice paganism.
Referring to all people whopractice paganism, an
alternative view of this wouldbe a prohibition against harmful
or manipulative practices thatinfringed upon the well-being
and autonomy of others.
It really aligns with theethical principles of many pagan
(22:51):
traditions, which emphasizeagain, personal responsibility
and respect for others, freewill and even early jews, who
use this passage.
That's in the original hebrew.
That's what it was, I believe,was meant to interpret, but
again, modern interpretationshave kind of perverted this and
(23:12):
changed it for their own use.
(23:34):
Another passage that's commonlyused by Christians to denigrate
pagans or Wiccans, and such isDeuteronomy 18.10-12,.
I believe Let no one be foundamong you who sacrifices their
son or daughter in the fire, whopractices divination or sorcery
, interprets omens, engages inwitchcraft or casts spells, or
who is a medium or spiritist orwho consults with the dead.
In historical context, in theancient Israelite society, there
(24:00):
were concerns about practicessuch as child sacrifice,
divination, necromancy, whichwere associated with the current
culture of the region.
Remember Abraham was willing tosacrifice his own child to his
god before an angel stopped him,before an angel stopped him.
So when a lot of Christianspoint fingers at paganism, about
(24:22):
human sacrifice and things likethat, you may want to bring
that up in a very respectfultone, don't be combative about
it, but it's important toremember that human sacrifice
was also a part of theirreligion at one time too.
I believe this passage and itstime and its context was an
effort of the religious leadersto start to create a sense of
(24:43):
morality within their religionto reflect a changing time.
Just like now we look at allthese past practices like human
sacrifice, child sacrifice, asinherently bad.
It was around this time thatthis was being written that
peoples around the world startedfeeling the same way.
So this was their attempt atsaying, hey, we don't need to do
(25:07):
this anymore either, and thatwas, you know, along their
methods, and it was againperceived as morally harmful on
these things.
So an alternativeinterpretation would be rather
than viewing these prohibitionsas a blanket condemnations of
all forms of divination orspiritual practices, they can be
(25:29):
better understood within thespecific cultural or religious
context of ancient Israel.
The emphasis here is onavoiding practices that were
perceived as spiritually ormorally harmful, rather than
condemning all alternativespiritual paths outright.
So yeah, so with thosepractices you know that are,
rather with these scripturesthat a lot of Christians use to
(25:52):
condemn paganism, it's reallygood to look into its original
context and it wasn't so muchcondemning the practices of all
peoples, it was condemning thosethat were perceived as morally
bad, so like human sacrifice,necromancy, etc.
(26:14):
So the context is importantwhen discussing these sorts of
things and when talking aboutpagan practices with Christians,
it's important to kind of bringthese things out and have open
dialogue and understanding howthese things kind of came about.
Some more Christian perceptionsabout paganism.
(26:36):
They really stem frommisunderstandings, stereotypes
and fears that have beenperpetuated over centuries.
Let's look at some of theseperceptions and discuss why they
are not based on facts.
Particularly in modern times,paganism was an association with
Satanism or Satan in general.
(26:57):
Many Christians equate paganismwith Satanism.
They see it as the exact samething, because they just don't
understand viewing both asinherently evil or diabolical.
Reasons behind this perceptionis that this association likely
stems from historical efforts byearly Christian authorities to
(27:18):
demonize and suppress anynon-Christian belief systems,
including pagan beliefs.
Additionally, the use ofsymbols and imagery associated
with nature and the occult insome pagan traditions may
contribute to this perception.
Paganism and Satanism aredistinct, distinct belief
systems, completely separate,with different origins,
(27:38):
principles and practices.
While satanism often involves aworship or veneration of a
satan figure as a deity likelucifer, paganism encompasses a
wide range of spiritualtraditions that that emphasize
reverence for nature, polyismand rituals honoring ancient
traditions.
Most pagans do not worshipSatan, subscribe to Satan
(28:01):
beliefs or even believe that aSatan figure even exists.
A lot of the early beliefsassociating Satan with pagans
stemmed from ancient nature kindof chaotic deities like Pan and
such, whereas the early imagesof Satan were altered to look
(28:22):
more like an evil version of Pan.
Pan was a satyr with goathooves and horns, and while the
early images of Satan had himwith clawed feet, the church
started changing those images togive Satan their Satan figure
cloven hooves, to make him lookmore like a goat man, to give
that association, basicallysaying this is our evil figure
(28:45):
and doesn't he often look likethis other you know thing that
pagans worship, this pan figure.
So they're obviously the samething.
And that was, you know, likeessentially early Christian
propaganda and that was, youknow, like essentially early
Christian propaganda and it'simportant to know that.
You know with historicalcontext how these traditions
have been kind of perverted andchanged over time.
(29:07):
So it's interesting to see howthese traditions and things have
changed over time in order topervert or demonize a lot of
pagan practices by the authoritythat was the early Catholic
Church or other religiousleaders.
Other common Christianmisconceptions is the fear of
(29:27):
magic and witchcraft withinpaganism.
Many Christians view paganismas synonymous with witches,
witchcraft and magic, which areoften portrayed as dark or
malevolent forces.
Media, tv movies like the Craftand things like that don't do a
good job at helping this.
They all perceive these witchesas communing with Satan or
(29:50):
doing deals with the devil, andthat again comes from Christian
propaganda over time where thesestories and traditions have
been altered and perverted forthe public eye, which it's
changing it for the public eyerather than going to what actual
witches or actual Wiccans andpagans truly believe.
It just really just condemnedeverything like paganism,
(30:12):
herbalism, ritual magic aswitchcraft by the authorities
and led to a widespread fear andpersecution of the individuals
practicing these traditions.
An example we have are theSalem Trials and you know a lot
of stuff that happened throughEurope.
This fear has been perpetuatedthrough literature, folklore.
Like I said, media portrayalsthat sensationalize and demonize
(30:34):
these pagan beliefs and ritualpractices.
While some pagans may engage inpractices commonly associated
with magical witchcraft, such asspellwork or divination, these
practices are not inherentlymalevolent or harmful.
Even most pagans will viewharmful or malevolent spells or
magic as if, you know, aChristian views somebody cursing
(31:06):
them out or asking harm tobefall them, just like, you know
, no good Christian would prayfor God to smite someone or, you
know, burn their crop or burntheir house.
You know pagans aren't going touse ritual spell work for that
either, and anybody who does iskind of pushed out of society.
Just like the Christians wouldpush somebody out of their
church that was inherentlynegative and bad and wanting to
(31:26):
hurt people.
Pagans would do the same thing,and it's important to
understand that on both sides ofthat line, because many pagans
view magic as natural and anethical tool for personal
transformation, healing,spiritual growth, rather than as
(31:48):
a means for causing harm orcontrolling others.
Another Christian perceptionregarding paganism is that they
regard pagans as lacking moralsor any ethical guidelines or
rules, and see pagans as morallyrelativistic or even hedonistic
.
Reasons behind this perceptionis again from those old
(32:10):
misunderstandings of paganethics, those old
misunderstandings of culturewhich you know pagan ethics
which prioritize principles suchas a respect for nature,
personal responsibility and harmreduction.
Just because we don't have anadherence to a strict set of
commandments or dogma Doesn'tmean we don't have morals.
(32:32):
The emphasis on individualautonomy and diverse spiritual
paths within paganism may beconstrued as moral relativism,
but it's really more of anunderstanding of diversity of
belief systems that canintermingle and that do have
some understanding between thosedifferent systems.
Many pagans emphasize valuessuch as environmental
(32:54):
stewardship, social justice,compassion for all living beings
.
While pagan ethics may differfrom those found in mainstream
Christianity, there are groundedprinciples of integrity,
reciprocity and respect for theinterconnectedness of all life.
Common Christian perceptions ofpaganism.
Common Christian perceptions ofpaganism.
(33:17):
So kind of concluding thoseperceptions.
Many Christian perceptions ofpaganism reflect historical
biases, cultural stereotypes,misconceptions that are really
not based on a factualunderstanding of pagan beliefs
and practices but more on fearand misunderstanding.
By fostering this dialogue,this education and mutual
(33:39):
respect between individuals ofdifferent faith, traditions,
different beliefs, we can workto overcome these
misunderstandings and promotegreater understanding and
acceptance of religiousdiversity.
Religious diversity is a greatthing.
Of religious diversity,religious diversity is a great
thing.
We should respect otherpeople's beliefs and their
(34:05):
belief systems and just striveto understand them as opposed to
demonizing them and pushingthem to the fringes of society.
Another thing to consider whenspeaking to Christians or really
anyone of another faith aboutpagan spirituality is trying to
find that common ground, findyour shared values.
So shared values betweenpaganism and Christianity, such
(34:25):
as environmental stewardship,community belief, community help
and involvement.
A lot of churches believe inhelping their surrounding
community with like food drivesand things like that.
You know pagans have the samepursuit of community connection.
We both pursue personalspirituality.
(34:45):
We have common ground fordialogue, cooperation with each
other.
I see churches all the time.
You know you have the Baptistand the Pentecostal over there
that they might have, you know,slightly different beliefs.
You know they kind of fallunder that same Christian banner
but they have slightlydifferent beliefs.
But they can come together fortheir community.
And I believe pagans andChristians can also come
(35:06):
together for their community aswell and help each other grow
spiritually and to foster thatunderstanding and that
acceptedness between each other.
And that's only going to happenwith cooperation and open
dialogue and respectful dialogue.
(35:30):
Some things to also considerwith finding common ground is
acknowledge the diversity ofbeliefs and practices within
both pagan and Christiancommunities, diversity of
beliefs and practices withinboth pagan and Christian
communities.
Recognize individualdifferences and try to avoid any
broad generalizations likepagans are all Satanists or
Christians are all hypocrites.
So get rid of those destructivegeneralizations and try to
(35:53):
understand the individualdifferences and the individual
similarities between both sidesof that line.
Interfaith cooperation is ahuge thing, like I said, you
know, like the pagans and theChristian groups coming together
with mutual respect andcollaboration for their
communities to help people tohelp the planet, and
(36:16):
collaboration for theircommunities to help people to
help the planet, despite thetheological differences.
And it's important to keep thatdialogue open, open-minded
dialogue, respectfulcommunication and fostering
understanding to build thatbridge between the different
religious traditions is a hugething and our communities really
need to get together to, youknow, bridge that gap and bring
(36:36):
things together.
Um, some kind of tips forbridging that gap would be like
building some strategies forinitiating respectful
conversations.
Talk within your communityabout how to uh approach those
from the other side of that line, so the Christians, the, any,
the Abrahamic faiths there areeven some infighting between
(36:58):
different pagan groups.
So really work within yourcommunity to foster an
understanding of everythingoutside that community in order
to one understand thesimilarities but also the
differences and to findrespectful grounds to have those
dialogues open.
So I know that was a lot andI'm trying to cut this a little
(37:19):
short.
But things that you know, wetalked about here and I would
really like to, you know, put alittle emphasis on, is when
you're speaking to people ofother belief systems,
particularly Christians, muslims, et cetera.
There's some things that youshould.
You know some steps that youshould really focus on when that
(37:40):
dialogue.
One is helping theunderstanding aspect between
Christianity and paganism andtry to keep that dialogue open
to help each other understandboth sides of that dialogue.
Another thing is address thoseperceptions and misperceptions
(38:01):
of paganism or even Christianityand kind of talk about like be
informed and research thedifferences and specifically the
similarities between those soyou can find some of that common
ground in order to keep thatdialogue open and definitely
address those misconceptions andexplain why those
(38:22):
misconceptions are eitherharmful or just not factual or
based on any logic at all.
And of course, we need to findthat common ground between each
other and find ways of bridgingthe gap in between the different
belief systems.
Thank you everyone for listening.
(38:42):
I invite you to follow me onsocial media.
You can find me.
You can look for Old Gods andNew Pagans.
Excuse me or find me on socialmedia.
Just search for B-E-C-O-R-A-T-H.
You can leave messages,comments.
I'm open.
I read everything everyonesends me.
(39:02):
I don't always reply, but Iabsolutely try to read
everything that is sent to meand I will address any questions
concerns.
If I don't know the answer, Iguarantee you I will find the
answer for you.
So if you have any questions orfeedback, definitely send it my
way.
If there's anything you want tohear me talk about, if there's
(39:23):
anything that in this episode orprevious episodes that I said
that was maybe not factual orjust wrong, bring it to my
attention.
I love to learn.
I'm open to new ideas and newdialogue.
So send that stuff my way andthank you all and keep being the
(39:44):
best part of what we do.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com