October 6, 2024 • 16 mins
Can mythology shape our understanding of the world and our place within it? Discover the answer as we journey through the intriguing realm of pagan traditions and mythology on Old Gods and New Pagans. Join Matt Holloway as he unravels the complex tapestry of pagan storytelling, where myths are not just tales of yore but powerful narratives that continue to influence cultures and spiritual practices today. We'll explore how these stories serve as moral compasses, explain natural phenomena, and preserve the essence of pagan cultures across history. Whether you're a devoted practitioner or simply curious, this episode promises to enrich your perspective on the timeless art of myth-making.
In this enlightening discussion, Matt delves into the diverse ways pagans interpret their myths, from atheistic perspectives that see deities as symbolic archetypes to theistic views that embrace them as manifestations of natural forces. With examples like the Norse god Odin, who embodies wisdom and war, we'll explore how atheistic pagans find meaning in myth without literal belief in gods. This episode respects the multiplicity of interpretations and beliefs within paganism, offering insights into the various ways mythology can be understood and appreciated. Grab a cup of tea, get comfortable, and embark on a journey through the colorful world of pagan myths, where every story holds a piece of history and soul.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt (00:16):
Hey there and welcome to Old Gods and New Pagans.
I'm your host, matt Holloway,your guide through the wild and
wonderful world of pagantraditions.
Matt Holloway, your guidethrough the wild and wonderful
world of pagan traditions.
Whether you're a seasoned pagan, a curious newcomer or just
here for the stories, you're inthe right place.
I am all about exploringancient wisdom, modern practices
and everything in between.
(00:36):
So grab a cup of tea, getcomfortable and let's dive in
today's topic.
Remember, nobody has all theanswers, but asking questions
that's where we learn.
So today we're diving into oneof the most fascinating aspects
of paganism the mythology.
Not the actual stories, though,but the overall concept of
(00:59):
mythology as it pertains topaganism.
You see, pagan mythology isrich.
It's diverse and offerscountless stories that have
shaped cultures and spiritualpractices for centuries or
millennia.
But how do different pagansview these myths?
Do some people just view themas made-up stories with no
(01:22):
context?
Are they stories that holddeeper truths?
Are they actual historicalaccounts?
Today, we're going to explorethose questions.
So let's get started.
Before we get into the nuances,let's talk about what is
mythology.
Mythology, in a broad sense, isa collection of stories that
(01:45):
explain the beliefs, practicesand values of a culture.
These stories often involve thegods, the goddesses and other
supernatural and metaphysicalbeings and how they interacted
with humans.
The term mythology oftencarries a negative context, as
if it's the opposite of fact ortruth.
(02:06):
For example, you see topicslike fact versus myth or six
common food myths debunked.
The thing is, language is aninteresting beast because a word
is capable of having multiplemeanings and they can all be
true within particular context.
(02:27):
So if you're one of the peoplethat gets upset about me
referring to these stories asmyths, please remember that I am
defining myth simply as acollection of stories that
explain the beliefs, practicesand values of a culture.
In paganism, mythology plays avery crucial role in shaping how
we understand the world andreally our place within it.
(02:49):
Myths can explain naturalphenomena, they can convey moral
lessons, they can preserve thehistory and soul of that culture
, of that pagan culture.
And what is paganism, but justthe customs and traditions of a
(03:13):
people.
Okay, so today we're going toaddress the main ways the
majority of pagans approachtheir mythology.
We're going to jump into boththe atheistic and the theistic
pagans and the different waysthat the myths can be
interpreted.
I'm not saying whether one wayis right or one way is wrong.
(03:34):
I'm just here to convey thatthere are multiple perspectives,
as the myths are are explored.
This podcast certainly does nottake a dogmatic approach to
paganism.
So keep that in mind and Iunderstand that there are
different beliefs, differentcultures and customs out there,
(03:59):
and to say that one is right orone is wrong is really up to the
individual to decide forthemselves, not others.
Just like paganism as it waspracticed in the past and today,
there are many, many nuances,branches, interpretations of how
all this comes about.
So first we're going to startat the bottom.
(04:20):
We're going to look intoatheistic paganism.
Okay, so the term atheist we'reall familiar with this term
someone who doesn't believe ingods.
But you may ask yourself, withpaganism we've got many gods.
How can someone be a pagan andan atheist?
Well, atheistic pagans embracemany of the practices, the
(04:43):
symbolism and the rituals foundin paganism, but they may not
necessarily believe in literaldeities or supernatural beings.
Some of these people may evenjust be agnostic, meaning they
are open to the idea that someof these beings may have existed
or do exist, but instead theymight see the gods and goddesses
(05:04):
as more personifications orarchetypes and symbols of
natural forces or just even asmetaphors for the human
existence.
Some examples would be like theNorse god Odin he represents
wisdom, war, death, magic,poetry, prophecy.
(05:25):
You know Odin is associatedwith the knowledge, with the
runes and the pursuit of wisdom.
So for an atheistic perspectiveof that is, we had the concept
of wisdom, concept of war, death, magic, and we created a being
that personified those aspects.
(05:46):
So you think of wisdom, youthink of the old man with a
beard and they just created Odinfrom that.
Or it could be, from thetheistic perspective, that Odin
was a god that had thosecharacteristics and then we just
learn to associate thosecharacteristics with him.
See, there's two differentsides to that.
A couple other gods to notewould be like Anubis, that A
(06:07):
couple other gods to note wouldbe like Anubis.
You know he's the aspect ofdeath, mummification, the
afterlife protection, etc.
In Egyptian mythology.
You know he's associated withthose things or those are things
that are associated with him.
We don't really know for a fact, but that's, you know, open
interpretations for this.
(06:28):
One other thing that setsatheist pagans apart is how they
view and interpret themythology surrounding a
particular pagan practice, theinterpretations that all myths
are just made-up stories or trueevents that evolved over time.
From an atheistic perspective,myths are often viewed as just
that, just stories.
(06:48):
They are narratives created byhumans to either explain the
world around them, teach morallessons or to convey complex
ideas in a way that's easy forthem to understand.
You have to understand that alot of these myths were written
(07:08):
by very primitive peoples thatdidn't have a full understanding
of sciences and the world andgeology and things around them,
so they just created thesestories to explain things that
they just didn't understand.
Another way to interpret themyths from an atheistic
perspective is that they aren'tseen as literal truths, but
(07:29):
rather like cultural artifactsthat hold a symbolic
significance.
One example would be Odin'sstory of sacrifice to learn the
runes.
You know the concept of awritten language is a powerful
thing and holds so much powerwithin a civilization.
But where do written languagescome from?
(07:50):
We know now where most writtenlanguages evolved and how they
evolved through time, but for anancient civilization this may
have been seen as something thatcame from the gods, you know.
So they created a story and amyth to surround something that
was part of their everyday life,much like a people who lived
near a volcano really wouldn'tunderstand seismic activity, but
(08:13):
attest something supernaturalto the sounds coming from that
volcano and consider it wrathfrom the gods when it erupted
violently.
Another example would be peoplethat were from an arid climate
might praise the gods for rainand consider rain a really good
thing, whereas in the tropics,rain usually came with violent
(08:36):
storms like hurricanes andtyphoons.
So they may have seen rain,personified rain as a violent,
destructive force, force.
So for atheistic pagans, thevalue of a myth lies not in
whether it actually happened,but what it can teach us about
(09:01):
ourselves, our society and ourplace in the universe.
Next we're going to dive into atheistic pagan's interpretation
of mythology.
So an explanation of theisticpaganism, you know.
So on the other side of thatspectrum, we have theistic
paganism.
Theistic pagans believe in theexistence of deities and
supernatural beings,metaphysical beings who are
(09:22):
active and present in the worldtoday.
For them, myths are not juststories.
They are sacred texts thatconvey divine truths.
These myths are often seen as away to connect with the gods,
to understand their will and tolearn from their actions.
Some of the ways that theisticpagans interpret the myths would
(09:49):
be literal and fallible.
Literal Some of the ways thattheistic pagans would interpret
the myths would be as literaland infallible, as metaphorical
or true but fallible.
So literal and infallible.
(10:09):
What does this mean?
So some theistic pagans believethat the myths are literal.
This means the stories areaccurate accounts of historical
events or divine actions.
Literal means it happened.
Infallible means that it's notcapable of being wrong.
For example, a myth about a godcreating the world might be
(10:33):
taken as a literal truth abouthow the world was actually
created.
In this view, myths are notjust symbolic.
They are the real, unchangingtruth handed down through
generations.
They are the real, unchangingtruth handed down through
generations.
Other theistic pagans might seethe myths more metaphorically.
In this interpretation, mythsare stories that were created to
(10:56):
teach important lessons or toexplain complex concepts, rather
than to record actual literalhistory.
For example, a myth about a godbattling a monster could be
seen as a metaphor for thestruggle between good and evil
or as a way to explain awaynatural disasters.
Here, the focus of that myth ison the underlying message
(11:22):
rather than the specific detailsof that story.
Message rather than thespecific details of that story.
The third way that theisticpagans might interpret myths are
that they are true stories butfallible.
So this is sort of a middleground between literal and
(11:43):
infallible and complete metaphor.
So this is that middle ground.
So some theistic pagans believethat they see these myths as
containing real truths.
But they also acknowledge thatnot everything in the myth is
meant to be taken literally.
Perhaps the myth might reflect areal event, but the details
(12:06):
have been exaggerated or alteredover time.
I mean, for the longest timethese myths were just spoken
word.
They were never written down.
So we've all played thatold-timey you know that game in
like elementary school telephone, where you whisper something in
someone's ear and everyone kindof keep telling that story over
and over and eventually it getschanged.
(12:27):
And a lot of pagans believethat this is possibly what
happened to the stories.
You know.
They were embellished over time.
You know, maybe one person wasreally into Thor.
He, you know, was all aboutsome Thor.
So he might have embellishedthose stories about Thor to make
him seem larger than life.
Or someone who did not, like aparticular god or goddess, told
(12:51):
the stories in such a way topaint them in a negative light.
We don't know for a fact howthis happened, but this is one
way to interpret those myths andmaybe the myth is just a mix of
historical fact and symbolicstorytelling.
Maybe it was purposely, youknow, mixed the real and unreal
(13:12):
aspects of the story on purposeto tell these stories, to make
them seem just better and morefun to tell and, of course, to
teach a lesson.
You know, this perspectiveallows for a lot more nuanced
interpretation of the myths,recognizing both that they can
be sacred and also that they dohave human origins as well.
(13:34):
So it's definitely aninteresting perspective and
something to consider.
So, in summary, we've seen thatpagan mythology can be
interpreted in many, manydifferent ways.
We've seen that pagan mythologycan be interpreted in many,
many different ways.
Whether you're an atheisticpagan who sees these myths as
symbolic stories and metaphor,or if you're a theistic pagan
who believes in the literaltruth of these tales, I'm here
(13:57):
to tell you there's no right orwrong way to approach these
mythologies.
These stories have been passeddown through generations and
they continue to inspire, tochallenge and to guide us in our
spiritual journeys.
Paganism is always evolving.
Paganism is always growing andshrinking, just like the world
(14:18):
around us.
New trees pop up every day, oldtrees fall and die.
These stories, these culturaltraditions, are always moving,
just like the natural world.
So consider that when you readthese mythologies the next time,
consider all the differentperspectives and think about how
(14:39):
you interpret them and reallymeditate on that fact.
Like I said, there's no rightor wrong way.
If you see these as metaphors,well, meditate on the stories
and the lessons that they hold.
And if you interpret these asliteral truths, think about the
situations that these gods,goddesses or just everyday
(15:02):
beings, humans in these stories,how they interacted, and again,
see what kind of lessons can belearned from those.
I hope this discussion has givenyou some food for thought about
how you view mythology withinyour own practice and whether
you see these stories as literalmetaphors or somewhere in
(15:24):
between.
They are a valuable part ofcultural heritage and I hope
that we can keep these storiesalive for the fact that they
contain so much wisdom that isstill relevant today.
I'd love to hear your thoughts.
How do you interpret thesemyths in your tradition?
(15:45):
You can go to the websiteoldgodsnewpaganscom.
Fill out the little contactform, let me know how you feel
about it, depending on whatpodcast platform you listen to
this on, leave a review, leave amessage and feel free to share
your views with me on socialmedia or in comments.
(16:06):
Thank you for joining me onthis exploration of the
interpretation of paganmythology.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please consider subscribing,
leaving a review or sharing itwith someone else who might find
it interesting or helpful.
You can find more content on mywebsite, oldgodsnewpaganscom or
(16:27):
find me on social media.
Until next time, may your pathbring you the challenges you can
overcome and always leave you abit wiser with every step.
Thank you.
Hey there and welcome to Old Gods and New Pagans.
I'm your host, matt Holloway,your guide through the wild and
wonderful world of pagantraditions.
Matt Holloway, your guidethrough the wild and wonderful
world of pagan traditions.
Whether you're a seasoned pagan, a curious newcomer or just
here for the stories, you're inthe right place.
I am all about exploringancient wisdom, modern practices
and everything in between.
(00:36):
So grab a cup of tea, getcomfortable and let's dive in
today's topic.
Remember, nobody has all theanswers, but asking questions
that's where we learn.
So today we're diving into oneof the most fascinating aspects
of paganism the mythology.
Not the actual stories, though,but the overall concept of
(00:59):
mythology as it pertains topaganism.
You see, pagan mythology isrich.
It's diverse and offerscountless stories that have
shaped cultures and spiritualpractices for centuries or
millennia.
But how do different pagansview these myths?
Do some people just view themas made-up stories with no
(01:22):
context?
Are they stories that holddeeper truths?
Are they actual historicalaccounts?
Today, we're going to explorethose questions.
So let's get started.
Before we get into the nuances,let's talk about what is
mythology.
Mythology, in a broad sense, isa collection of stories that
(01:45):
explain the beliefs, practicesand values of a culture.
These stories often involve thegods, the goddesses and other
supernatural and metaphysicalbeings and how they interacted
with humans.
The term mythology oftencarries a negative context, as
if it's the opposite of fact ortruth.
(02:06):
For example, you see topicslike fact versus myth or six
common food myths debunked.
The thing is, language is aninteresting beast because a word
is capable of having multiplemeanings and they can all be
true within particular context.
(02:27):
So if you're one of the peoplethat gets upset about me
referring to these stories asmyths, please remember that I am
defining myth simply as acollection of stories that
explain the beliefs, practicesand values of a culture.
In paganism, mythology plays avery crucial role in shaping how
we understand the world andreally our place within it.
(02:49):
Myths can explain naturalphenomena, they can convey moral
lessons, they can preserve thehistory and soul of that culture
, of that pagan culture.
And what is paganism, but justthe customs and traditions of a
(03:13):
people.
Okay, so today we're going toaddress the main ways the
majority of pagans approachtheir mythology.
We're going to jump into boththe atheistic and the theistic
pagans and the different waysthat the myths can be
interpreted.
I'm not saying whether one wayis right or one way is wrong.
(03:34):
I'm just here to convey thatthere are multiple perspectives,
as the myths are are explored.
This podcast certainly does nottake a dogmatic approach to
paganism.
So keep that in mind and Iunderstand that there are
different beliefs, differentcultures and customs out there,
(03:59):
and to say that one is right orone is wrong is really up to the
individual to decide forthemselves, not others.
Just like paganism as it waspracticed in the past and today,
there are many, many nuances,branches, interpretations of how
all this comes about.
So first we're going to startat the bottom.
(04:20):
We're going to look intoatheistic paganism.
Okay, so the term atheist we'reall familiar with this term
someone who doesn't believe ingods.
But you may ask yourself, withpaganism we've got many gods.
How can someone be a pagan andan atheist?
Well, atheistic pagans embracemany of the practices, the
(04:43):
symbolism and the rituals foundin paganism, but they may not
necessarily believe in literaldeities or supernatural beings.
Some of these people may evenjust be agnostic, meaning they
are open to the idea that someof these beings may have existed
or do exist, but instead theymight see the gods and goddesses
(05:04):
as more personifications orarchetypes and symbols of
natural forces or just even asmetaphors for the human
existence.
Some examples would be like theNorse god Odin he represents
wisdom, war, death, magic,poetry, prophecy.
(05:25):
You know Odin is associatedwith the knowledge, with the
runes and the pursuit of wisdom.
So for an atheistic perspectiveof that is, we had the concept
of wisdom, concept of war, death, magic, and we created a being
that personified those aspects.
(05:46):
So you think of wisdom, youthink of the old man with a
beard and they just created Odinfrom that.
Or it could be, from thetheistic perspective, that Odin
was a god that had thosecharacteristics and then we just
learn to associate thosecharacteristics with him.
See, there's two differentsides to that.
A couple other gods to notewould be like Anubis, that A
(06:07):
couple other gods to note wouldbe like Anubis.
You know he's the aspect ofdeath, mummification, the
afterlife protection, etc.
In Egyptian mythology.
You know he's associated withthose things or those are things
that are associated with him.
We don't really know for a fact, but that's, you know, open
interpretations for this.
(06:28):
One other thing that setsatheist pagans apart is how they
view and interpret themythology surrounding a
particular pagan practice, theinterpretations that all myths
are just made-up stories or trueevents that evolved over time.
From an atheistic perspective,myths are often viewed as just
that, just stories.
(06:48):
They are narratives created byhumans to either explain the
world around them, teach morallessons or to convey complex
ideas in a way that's easy forthem to understand.
You have to understand that alot of these myths were written
(07:08):
by very primitive peoples thatdidn't have a full understanding
of sciences and the world andgeology and things around them,
so they just created thesestories to explain things that
they just didn't understand.
Another way to interpret themyths from an atheistic
perspective is that they aren'tseen as literal truths, but
(07:29):
rather like cultural artifactsthat hold a symbolic
significance.
One example would be Odin'sstory of sacrifice to learn the
runes.
You know the concept of awritten language is a powerful
thing and holds so much powerwithin a civilization.
But where do written languagescome from?
(07:50):
We know now where most writtenlanguages evolved and how they
evolved through time, but for anancient civilization this may
have been seen as something thatcame from the gods, you know.
So they created a story and amyth to surround something that
was part of their everyday life,much like a people who lived
near a volcano really wouldn'tunderstand seismic activity, but
(08:13):
attest something supernaturalto the sounds coming from that
volcano and consider it wrathfrom the gods when it erupted
violently.
Another example would be peoplethat were from an arid climate
might praise the gods for rainand consider rain a really good
thing, whereas in the tropics,rain usually came with violent
(08:36):
storms like hurricanes andtyphoons.
So they may have seen rain,personified rain as a violent,
destructive force, force.
So for atheistic pagans, thevalue of a myth lies not in
whether it actually happened,but what it can teach us about
(09:01):
ourselves, our society and ourplace in the universe.
Next we're going to dive into atheistic pagan's interpretation
of mythology.
So an explanation of theisticpaganism, you know.
So on the other side of thatspectrum, we have theistic
paganism.
Theistic pagans believe in theexistence of deities and
supernatural beings,metaphysical beings who are
(09:22):
active and present in the worldtoday.
For them, myths are not juststories.
They are sacred texts thatconvey divine truths.
These myths are often seen as away to connect with the gods,
to understand their will and tolearn from their actions.
Some of the ways that theisticpagans interpret the myths would
(09:49):
be literal and fallible.
Literal Some of the ways thattheistic pagans would interpret
the myths would be as literaland infallible, as metaphorical
or true but fallible.
So literal and infallible.
(10:09):
What does this mean?
So some theistic pagans believethat the myths are literal.
This means the stories areaccurate accounts of historical
events or divine actions.
Literal means it happened.
Infallible means that it's notcapable of being wrong.
For example, a myth about a godcreating the world might be
(10:33):
taken as a literal truth abouthow the world was actually
created.
In this view, myths are notjust symbolic.
They are the real, unchangingtruth handed down through
generations.
They are the real, unchangingtruth handed down through
generations.
Other theistic pagans might seethe myths more metaphorically.
In this interpretation, mythsare stories that were created to
(10:56):
teach important lessons or toexplain complex concepts, rather
than to record actual literalhistory.
For example, a myth about a godbattling a monster could be
seen as a metaphor for thestruggle between good and evil
or as a way to explain awaynatural disasters.
Here, the focus of that myth ison the underlying message
(11:22):
rather than the specific detailsof that story.
Message rather than thespecific details of that story.
The third way that theisticpagans might interpret myths are
that they are true stories butfallible.
So this is sort of a middleground between literal and
(11:43):
infallible and complete metaphor.
So this is that middle ground.
So some theistic pagans believethat they see these myths as
containing real truths.
But they also acknowledge thatnot everything in the myth is
meant to be taken literally.
Perhaps the myth might reflect areal event, but the details
(12:06):
have been exaggerated or alteredover time.
I mean, for the longest timethese myths were just spoken
word.
They were never written down.
So we've all played thatold-timey you know that game in
like elementary school telephone, where you whisper something in
someone's ear and everyone kindof keep telling that story over
and over and eventually it getschanged.
(12:27):
And a lot of pagans believethat this is possibly what
happened to the stories.
You know.
They were embellished over time.
You know, maybe one person wasreally into Thor.
He, you know, was all aboutsome Thor.
So he might have embellishedthose stories about Thor to make
him seem larger than life.
Or someone who did not, like aparticular god or goddess, told
(12:51):
the stories in such a way topaint them in a negative light.
We don't know for a fact howthis happened, but this is one
way to interpret those myths andmaybe the myth is just a mix of
historical fact and symbolicstorytelling.
Maybe it was purposely, youknow, mixed the real and unreal
(13:12):
aspects of the story on purposeto tell these stories, to make
them seem just better and morefun to tell and, of course, to
teach a lesson.
You know, this perspectiveallows for a lot more nuanced
interpretation of the myths,recognizing both that they can
be sacred and also that they dohave human origins as well.
(13:34):
So it's definitely aninteresting perspective and
something to consider.
So, in summary, we've seen thatpagan mythology can be
interpreted in many, manydifferent ways.
We've seen that pagan mythologycan be interpreted in many,
many different ways.
Whether you're an atheisticpagan who sees these myths as
symbolic stories and metaphor,or if you're a theistic pagan
who believes in the literaltruth of these tales, I'm here
(13:57):
to tell you there's no right orwrong way to approach these
mythologies.
These stories have been passeddown through generations and
they continue to inspire, tochallenge and to guide us in our
spiritual journeys.
Paganism is always evolving.
Paganism is always growing andshrinking, just like the world
(14:18):
around us.
New trees pop up every day, oldtrees fall and die.
These stories, these culturaltraditions, are always moving,
just like the natural world.
So consider that when you readthese mythologies the next time,
consider all the differentperspectives and think about how
(14:39):
you interpret them and reallymeditate on that fact.
Like I said, there's no rightor wrong way.
If you see these as metaphors,well, meditate on the stories
and the lessons that they hold.
And if you interpret these asliteral truths, think about the
situations that these gods,goddesses or just everyday
(15:02):
beings, humans in these stories,how they interacted, and again,
see what kind of lessons can belearned from those.
I hope this discussion has givenyou some food for thought about
how you view mythology withinyour own practice and whether
you see these stories as literalmetaphors or somewhere in
(15:24):
between.
They are a valuable part ofcultural heritage and I hope
that we can keep these storiesalive for the fact that they
contain so much wisdom that isstill relevant today.
I'd love to hear your thoughts.
How do you interpret thesemyths in your tradition?
(15:45):
You can go to the websiteoldgodsnewpaganscom.
Fill out the little contactform, let me know how you feel
about it, depending on whatpodcast platform you listen to
this on, leave a review, leave amessage and feel free to share
your views with me on socialmedia or in comments.
(16:06):
Thank you for joining me onthis exploration of the
interpretation of paganmythology.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please consider subscribing,
leaving a review or sharing itwith someone else who might find
it interesting or helpful.
You can find more content on mywebsite, oldgodsnewpaganscom or
(16:27):
find me on social media.
Until next time, may your pathbring you the challenges you can
overcome and always leave you abit wiser with every step.
Thank you.
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