January 13, 2025 • 28 mins
The episode explores the significance of ancestor veneration, highlighting its historical roots and practical applications in modern life. By discussing various rituals, shared meals, and spaces dedicated to honoring ancestors, we address the complexities of family history and the importance of healing generational trauma.
• Importance of archaeological evidence on ancestor practices
• Historical accounts from Romans and Norse culture
• Common elements of ancestor veneration found in many cultures
• Practical tips for daily rituals and creating an ancestral shrine
• Engaging with difficult family histories and trauma
• Overcoming barriers to practicing ancestor veneration
• Simple ways to integrate ancestor practices into daily life
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hello everyone and welcome to Old Gods and New
Pagans.
I'm your host, matt Holloway,your guide to the wild and
interesting world of pagantraditions.
Whether you're a seasonedpractitioner, a curious newcomer
or just here for the stories,you're in the right place.
Today we're diving into one ofthe most fundamental and,
(00:39):
honestly, most misunderstoodpractices of historical paganism
, that is, ancestor veneration.
Now I know some of you arethinking but Matt, my ancestors
were terrible people, or I don'teven know who the hell they are
.
Well, don't worry, we're goingto tackle all that a little
later.
But first let's look at whatour ancestors actually did to
(01:03):
honor their ancestors, based onreal historical evidence, not
just Instagram, aesthetics orromanticism.
Let's start with what weactually know from archaeology
Because, let's face it, ourancestors left us more than just
their DNA.
They left us physical evidenceof how they honored their own
(01:24):
ancestors, and it's prettyinteresting stuff.
So one of the most obviousplaces we find this evidence is
in burial practices.
You see, germanic burial sites,particularly from the migration
period, showed us somethingreally interesting At sites like
(01:44):
Oberflacht in Germany, wheregraves with not just weapons and
jewelry but everyday items likecooking pots, combs, possibly
their favorite cups, or evengames and gaming pieces were
buried alongside those people.
Or at Sutton Hoo in England, wesee elaborate ship burials with
(02:05):
daily items alongside preciousgoods.
This wasn't people justthrowing away good stuff.
A lot of these things were veryneeded for people living in
those days.
So the fact that they put thesewith burial sites of their
ancestors it showed that theyhad beliefs and they had a lot
of respect for the dead.
(02:26):
So they weren't just throwingaway stuff.
This was setting up the deadfor what they needed to remain
part of their community.
Here's one place where it getsreally interesting.
Across northern Europe we foundhouse foundations with
deliberate burial spotsunderneath the homes.
(02:46):
At sites in Denmark andnorthern Germany, archaeologists
have discovered houses builtdirectly over graves, with
offerings continued to be madethrough either special shafts or
openings in the homes.
Think about that for a minute.
Our ancestors literally builttheir homes on top of their
(03:06):
ancestors.
They weren't separating thedead from the living.
They were actually keeping themclose, making them part of the
daily life.
The Romans, who, let's be honest, loved writing about everyone
else's business, gave us somefantastic accounts of Germanic
ancestor practices as well.
Tacitus, writing in the 1stcentury CE, described regular
(03:30):
offerings of food and drink,seasonal celebrations where the
ancestors were explicitlyinvited to participate, and even
household shrines that wereattended to daily.
And you know what, when we lookat the archaeology, it all
matches up well within thesewritten accounts.
Let's talk about the writtenevidence for the moment and, a
(03:51):
little alert, my pronunciationmay be pretty off here.
In the Norse tradition, we havethe saga of Thordr Kakali
Sightvidsson, which describeshow ancestors were believed to
live within the hills near theirfarms.
The Icelandic story Latnálmapok, or the Book of Settlements,
(04:17):
tells us about settlers inIceland who wouldn't even build
their homes until they hadconsulted with the ancestral
spirits about the specificlocation.
Even in Anglo-Saxon England, wehave this fascinating practice
of high seat pillars, which werelike carved posts that were so
important to the ancestralpractice that the sellers would
(04:39):
throw them overboard their boatsand build their new settlement
wherever they washed ashore.
These weren't just decorativeposts, they were physical links
to their ancestors.
It's kind of cool.
Right Now let's talk about somecommon practices across
different cultures, because thisis where things get practical.
(05:02):
Despite what some modern authorsmight tell you, ancestor
veneration wasn't somemysterious, complicated practice
.
It was actually prettystraightforward and simple, and
that's good news for us modernfolks trying to reconstruct
these practices.
The basic elements show upalmost everywhere we look.
You have a designated space inthe home, regular offerings
(05:25):
usually food and drink andspecific times when more
elaborate rituals may have beenperformed.
The Romans had their Lillaria,or household shrines, where they
honored both ancestors andhousehold spirits.
We have actual preservedexamples from Pompeii showing
exactly how these were set upand may have been used.
(05:48):
Norse households had high seatswith pillars dedicated to their
ancestors.
Even in Celtic, evidencesuggests that there were similar
practices, though they were abit more private about it and
didn't write as much down for us, though they were a bit more
private about it and didn'twrite as much down for us.
(06:12):
One particular interestingexample comes from the Baltic
region, where practices survivedwell into the Christian era.
Lithuanian families maintainedspecial rooms or corners called
again my pronunciation NamusFinta, or sacred places of the
home, where ancestors werehonored alongside other spirits.
They kept special cloths thatwere only used for ancestral
(06:35):
offerings, and special foodswere prepared according to
family recipes passed downthrough generations.
But here's the thing thatreally jumps out when you study
these practices they werepractical.
These weren't elaborateceremonies performed once a year
.
This was daily life.
(06:56):
This was setting aside thefirst portion of dinner.
This was pouring out a drinkbefore you took a sip.
This was maintaining arelationship, not necessarily
performing a ritual or worship.
So let's talk about how we canpractice this today, because
that's really what you're allhere for, right.
(07:17):
I'm going to guide you throughtwo specific exercises that you
can try this week for ancestorveneration.
One is going to be a morninggreeting.
The other is like a weeklylittle ritual.
Okay so the first one, we'regoing to call it the morning
greeting.
It's based on a Roman practiceof the morning salutatio, but
(07:41):
simplified it more.
You know a few steps for justmodern daily life.
Choose a consistent time eachmorning, stand before your
ancestral shrine or some photos,or we'll get into the shrine
later, but just stand beforeyour shrine or the area that
you're doing this in Light, acandle.
Turn on an electric candle,turn on a light, however.
(08:04):
You know you feel, pour twodrinks.
You know like feel, pour twodrinks.
You know like, if you drinkcoffee or tea or water first
thing in the morning, maybe,pour two cups of coffee, one for
you, one for an ancestor.
Greet them explicitly, you know.
Say good morning ancestors, orgood morning grandma or grandpa
or Dio, whoever you're wantingto spend that relationship with
(08:28):
that morning Take a couple ofminutes to tell them about your
plans for the day, how you feel,Ask for their guidance or
support in that specific area.
You know, while you're talkingto them, drink your drink, you
know, leaving theirs untilyou're completely done.
When you're finished, thankthem and then dispose of your
drink, either outdoors or, ifyou're in a more urban area and
(08:52):
you can't just pour your coffeeor tea outside, just pour it
down the drain.
But that kind of gives you anidea of how these types of
ancestral ceremonies would takeplace on a daily basis.
I have a small shrine sitting upon top of a cabinet over here
(09:13):
that I use and it's got someancestral and we'll kind of get
into like some things that youcan put on your ancestor shrine.
But one of the things it has onthere is some memorabilia from
my dog and I sometimes take timeto spend time talking to him as
well.
But moving on, you know, beyondthat daily ritual that you can
(09:37):
have and it could be a morningritual, it could be something at
the end of your day to justtalk about your day, to unload,
just pick a certain time of thedayend that time talking to an
ancestor or all your ancestorsin general, and, yeah, see how
it goes.
The second little exercise thatI would recommend is something
(10:00):
like a weekly meal this isadapted more from Germanic
practices and go through thesteps and then we'll kind of
explain that as we go through.
Number one choose one meal perweek as your ancestor meal.
Set an extra place at the tablefor an ancestor Before eating.
Announce you know, I share thismeal with my ancestors, or, hey
(10:22):
, we're sharing this meal withgrandma today.
Place a small portion of eachfood on that ancestral plate
while you're eating your meal,mindfully thinking about that
ancestor, because you've broughttheir presence in there
mentally Think about theirfamily stories or memories with
that individual, if you havethem.
Leave the ancestors portion outfor the duration of the meal
(10:48):
and then, once after you've kindof cleaned up, you can dispose
of that.
Me personally, I like to leavefood and drink offerings outside
for wildlife and to kind oflike, give that back to nature.
But, depending on your ownsituations, dispose of it how
you can and, yeah, just disposeof it respectfully Outdoors.
(11:12):
Give it to birds, animals.
Like I say, I give mine to thewildlife.
As far as that, one meal perweek.
Living in the South, we havesort of a tradition of Sunday
dinner.
It kind of stems from churchtimes and things like that, but
even religion aside, it's becomereally a tradition that the
(11:33):
family gets together for Sundayafternoon and has a big dinner.
It's a way to mix and mingleand keep those familial ties
together, and that's a greattime to do it.
Or you can have, you know, aThursday night dinner for
ancestors or Friday night orhowever you want to plan.
It.
Just kind of set aside a littlebit of time just for that and
(11:55):
it really just brings thoseancestors and the wisdom and you
start thinking about thememories and the life lessons
that they may have taught youand these lessons can come back
and help you through your day.
So, yeah, just take some time,try out those two exercises a
(12:20):
morning greeting or dailygreeting and a weekly offering
meal of some sort.
Let's talk about setting up yourspace, your ancestor shrines,
because that's usually where alot of people want to start with
this.
Historically, ancestor shrineswere often pretty simple.
You didn't need fancy statuesor expensive items on these
shrines, you just needed a clean, dedicated space and some basic
items for offerings.
That's it Today.
(12:42):
This could be as simple as ashelf, a windowsill or even the
corner of your desk or thecenter of your dining room table
.
So what goes on in this shrine?
We'll discuss some of thebasics.
You definitely want something torepresent your ancestors.
This could be inherited items,something that was very specific
(13:02):
to a specific ancestor.
Photos work great.
You can have photos of yourpeople.
Heirlooms essentially just aname written down on a card or
even symbols of your heritagework just fine.
So if you have like symbols oflike your history, your heritage
, you know maybe a country youcame from, you know where your
(13:25):
people are, you know originatethe ancestors you want to
venerate having symbols of that.
So if you're Celtic, a Celticknot, if your ancestors are from
Africa, you can have someAfrican memorabilia or anything
really of that nature.
You want a place for theseofferings.
This could be a plain bowl orcup.
(13:47):
Archaeological evidence showsthat for the most part, our
ancestors used common everydayitems for these offerings.
They didn't have some likebejeweled chalice for these
offerings.
They had the same kinds ofbowls that they would use every
day on their ancestral shrines.
So it's more evidence for you.
(14:15):
To keep these things simple andnot so elaborate.
It's customary to have someform of light.
Historically this would be likea candle or a flame.
Today you might use likeelectric candles.
Specifically, if you live in anapartment, you're not allowed
to have open flames, thoselittle LED tea lights or some
(14:37):
other type of battery-operatedcandle or, honestly, those
little LED fairy lights.
You can light up your altar,your shrine, that way as well,
and that's valid.
Some other items you may want tohave on your shrine would be,
(14:58):
as I mentioned, items thatrepresent your heritage or
family traditions.
It might be traditional crafts.
So if you have a Cherokeeancestor, you want to talk to.
Some traditional basket weavingwould be really fun to have on
there.
Maybe something that would belike your offering bowl could be
a traditionally weaved basket.
(15:19):
You can use tools of familytrades.
So if you've come from a longline of carpenters, or even you
know we live in the modern age,you know you have like three
generations of truck drivers inyour family, it could be, you
know, grandpa's trucker cap.
So something that representsyou know, that family trade, the
(15:39):
heritage, the heirlooms or, asI mentioned, symbols of your
culture.
And remember these items.
They serve one major purpose.
It's really the only purpose ofthese items on your shrine is
to remind you of the ancestorand to keep them in your
thoughts and mind.
(16:00):
I will repeat that the items onyour shrine serve one purpose,
and that is just simply toremind you of them.
Okay, now we're going to tacklethe elephant in the room.
(16:22):
What about difficult ancestors?
What about family trauma?
What about ancestors who?
What about family trauma?
What about ancestors who didterrible things?
There's really nobody free fromthat in modern time.
All of our ancestors at somepoint did something terrible.
It's there, but here's what youneed to remember about that.
(16:44):
It's there, but here's what youneed to remember about that.
Historical ancestor venerationwasn't about pretending everyone
in your tree was perfect.
It wasn't about only honoringthose people that were perfect.
The sagas are full ofcomplicated family relationships
(17:05):
.
Medieval chronicles documentfamily feuds that would last for
generations, yet the practiceof ancestor veneration still
continued.
It was about acknowledging thereality that you wouldn't be
here without them and thatworking to heal and transform
(17:27):
difficult legacies formdifficult legacies.
In many traditions, ancestorswere seen as capable of growth
and transformation.
After death, the living had aresponsibility to help heal
those ancestral wounds.
The same way you may have anancestor that was racist as hell
(17:52):
and like a grandparent or agreat-grandparent that did not
approve of your interracialrelationship you were in.
It's still important to try tofor yourself as well as for them
to try to mend thoseconnections and say, hey, you
know I still love you, grandma,but you know I'm happy we have
(18:13):
three kids now.
You can see that we are a goodfamily, even though we are in a
racial relationship, and usethose times, like that morning
greeting, to help heal thosefamily wounds.
I'm going to go through someFAQs or some troubleshooting
(18:36):
type things for ancestorveneration just to try to answer
some of the more commonquestions that I've gotten over
the past on this topic whenspeaking to people.
So, do you live in a tinyapartment?
Just know that a simple photoand a tea light on a windowsill
can be a shrine.
Or, just again, like I said,the center of your dining table,
(18:56):
corner of a desk, yournightstand beside your bed
Anything can really double as anancestor shrine.
Maybe you can't have visiblereligious items in your space.
I have a friend of mine who,due to some life circumstances,
was living she, being pagan, wasliving in a Christian kind of
(19:21):
center home for her and her baby.
So having pagan religioussymbols out was against the
rules.
So something like a photo albumcan be your shrine in plain
sight.
You can have photos of familymembers and for the outsider
that just have, you know, photosof family members, and for the
outsider that just looks likeyou want to remember your family
members.
So that's a you know, a littletip, a little trick that you can
(19:43):
have to have a ancestral shrinein plain sight.
Um, if you no space, again, likeI said, your coffee morning
ritual, your morning coffeeritual, doesn't really require
much space.
You can do it at your diningroom table, you can do it
sitting on the couch Just putthe extra coffee cup on the
coffee table in front of you.
Or, yeah, at your desk.
(20:05):
In the morning, when I'msitting at my desk, sometimes
I'll, you know, take that timeto speak with some of my
ancestors.
Are you worried about familyreactions?
Well, it's best to keep itsimple and private.
Like I said, a photo album, oryou can frame this whole
ancestral shrine as a familyhistory vintage memorabilia
(20:30):
collection that you can use toserve as your shrine.
You can have all these items ona shelf and just say, hey, I
just want to learn more about myfamily and I'd like to have
some photos of some ancestorshere just to kind of remind me
of them.
Or do you travel a lot?
You can create a way that I'veseen some people do this, uh,
(20:55):
like traveling altar.
You can do like a ancestralshrine in the same way through
like a little small box or evenan Altoids 10 or something like
that, where you can keep a photo, a tea light and maybe even a
small offering dish in there.
I mean, heck, you can even usethe Altoids 10 itself or the box
as the offering dish If you're,you know, really traveling a
(21:19):
lot and you don't have any wayto carry things like that around
, really having like a dedicatedfolder on your phone of
ancestral photos, symbols andthings like that that remind you
of these people, that remindyou of your culture, that you
can flip through and use that assort of a digital ancestral
(21:40):
shrine If you're living with.
I've had some people talk aboutlike depression or mental
illness with ancestral shrinesand it's really cool because,
again, it doesn't have to beelaborate, it could be something
very simple or just saying, hey, I remember you.
(22:01):
The ancestors understand whenwe're struggling, because they
struggled too and using thistime to it's almost, like you
know, like writing it in ajournal or speaking to a
therapist.
You can speak to your ancestorsin a lot of the same ways and
(22:22):
again heal that generationaltrauma or just heal your own
emotions and get those out ofyou.
It's really therapeutic.
If you're on a tight budget andyou can't afford, like shrine
items, that's perfectly okay.
As I said, use what you have.
(22:46):
These items that weretraditionally used for shrines
were common everyday items.
I mean a literal coffee mugthat was a free gift from your
job for whatever it was couldserve as an offering bowl, a
cheap bowl that you buy, thatyou can pick up at a thrift
store that just really connectedto you.
(23:07):
Maybe you had some symbolism onit that you like.
For a dollar it can, you know,double as your offering bowl.
You don't need fancy frames foryour photos.
I mean you can print it out ona standard printer, on printer
paper.
A photo of an ancestor.
If you found online, that wouldwork just fine.
Like I said, a photo albumworks perfectly fine for
(23:29):
something like this.
This is all about yourattention, not your wallet.
And the number one question Iget a lot of times when speaking
about ancestor veneration iswhat if I don't know my
biological family history?
(23:49):
You don't know any of yourancestors.
You don't even know who yourparents are, that's okay.
Work with your culturalancestors.
You don't even know who yourparents are, that's okay.
Work with your culturalancestors, chosen family
ancestors.
So if you know, you know whatcountry your ancestors
originated from or what regionyour ancestors originated from.
You know.
(24:09):
Consider the cultures of thatregion and you know.
Direct your ancestor venerationto the culture or to those
peoples, or something I tell alot of people like your family
is also the people you choose.
So if you were raised in anadopted family, you know your
(24:33):
parents, their parents or yourgrandparents.
Those people raised you.
It doesn't mean they're goingto stop guiding you after death,
that those ancestors, whetherthey're not your biological
ancestors, those people willcontinue to guide you and start
building your practice upon thator again, like cultural
(24:53):
ancestors or tradescraftancestors.
So if you want to put yourselfinto a trade, whether it's
leatherworking or stone masonry,whatever it is, you can look at
the ancestors, those heroes ofthat trade, as your ancestors
and bring them into yourancestral practice.
Remember, our ancestors had topractice discreetly too, so
(25:18):
we're in good company.
The archaeological record showsplenty of evidence of hidden
shrines and subtle practicesduring periods of religious
change.
They found ways to adapt, so wecan too.
So keep that in mind when youpractice.
It's not about the money, it'sabout the attention, it's about
(25:39):
remembering those ancestors,it's about reminding you of
those ancestors to keep them inyour thoughts and keep them in
your mind as we wrap up.
Today.
I want to emphasize somethingStart small, start simple and
(26:04):
start wherever you are.
Our ancestors didn't buildthese practices overnight, and
neither should we Begin with onesimple, sustainable practice
and just let it grow naturally.
That wraps us up for today.
(26:25):
The next episode exploresvarious types of sacred spaces
in ancient cultures, examiningtheir definitions, their
purposes and uses.
I'll even clarify thedistinctions between altars,
shrines, temples and evennatural sacred spaces like
groves, while exploring howdifferent cultures approach
these concepts and how they wereused in practical worship daily
(26:49):
Until then.
Just remember, nobody has allthe answers, but asking
questions that's where we learn.
So if you're practicingancestor veneration or planning
to start, I'd love to hear aboutit.
Drop by the Discord server.
Reach out to me on social media.
(27:09):
Check out oldgodsnewpaganscom.
Just share your experienceswith me so that we can learn and
grow together, and if you'reenjoying the show, please rate
it, review it wherever you getyour podcasts.
It really helps other pagansfind this podcast and trying to
teach these small, simple waysof practicing basic paganism so
(27:34):
that we can help people findtheir path.
This has been another Old Godsand New Pagans.
I'm Matt Holloway and untilnext time, keep asking those
questions, thank you.
Hello everyone and welcome to Old Gods and New
Pagans.
I'm your host, matt Holloway,your guide to the wild and
interesting world of pagantraditions.
Whether you're a seasonedpractitioner, a curious newcomer
or just here for the stories,you're in the right place.
Today we're diving into one ofthe most fundamental and,
(00:39):
honestly, most misunderstoodpractices of historical paganism
, that is, ancestor veneration.
Now I know some of you arethinking but Matt, my ancestors
were terrible people, or I don'teven know who the hell they are
.
Well, don't worry, we're goingto tackle all that a little
later.
But first let's look at whatour ancestors actually did to
(01:03):
honor their ancestors, based onreal historical evidence, not
just Instagram, aesthetics orromanticism.
Let's start with what weactually know from archaeology
Because, let's face it, ourancestors left us more than just
their DNA.
They left us physical evidenceof how they honored their own
(01:24):
ancestors, and it's prettyinteresting stuff.
So one of the most obviousplaces we find this evidence is
in burial practices.
You see, germanic burial sites,particularly from the migration
period, showed us somethingreally interesting At sites like
(01:44):
Oberflacht in Germany, wheregraves with not just weapons and
jewelry but everyday items likecooking pots, combs, possibly
their favorite cups, or evengames and gaming pieces were
buried alongside those people.
Or at Sutton Hoo in England, wesee elaborate ship burials with
(02:05):
daily items alongside preciousgoods.
This wasn't people justthrowing away good stuff.
A lot of these things were veryneeded for people living in
those days.
So the fact that they put thesewith burial sites of their
ancestors it showed that theyhad beliefs and they had a lot
of respect for the dead.
(02:26):
So they weren't just throwingaway stuff.
This was setting up the deadfor what they needed to remain
part of their community.
Here's one place where it getsreally interesting.
Across northern Europe we foundhouse foundations with
deliberate burial spotsunderneath the homes.
(02:46):
At sites in Denmark andnorthern Germany, archaeologists
have discovered houses builtdirectly over graves, with
offerings continued to be madethrough either special shafts or
openings in the homes.
Think about that for a minute.
Our ancestors literally builttheir homes on top of their
(03:06):
ancestors.
They weren't separating thedead from the living.
They were actually keeping themclose, making them part of the
daily life.
The Romans, who, let's be honest, loved writing about everyone
else's business, gave us somefantastic accounts of Germanic
ancestor practices as well.
Tacitus, writing in the 1stcentury CE, described regular
(03:30):
offerings of food and drink,seasonal celebrations where the
ancestors were explicitlyinvited to participate, and even
household shrines that wereattended to daily.
And you know what, when we lookat the archaeology, it all
matches up well within thesewritten accounts.
Let's talk about the writtenevidence for the moment and, a
(03:51):
little alert, my pronunciationmay be pretty off here.
In the Norse tradition, we havethe saga of Thordr Kakali
Sightvidsson, which describeshow ancestors were believed to
live within the hills near theirfarms.
The Icelandic story Latnálmapok, or the Book of Settlements,
(04:17):
tells us about settlers inIceland who wouldn't even build
their homes until they hadconsulted with the ancestral
spirits about the specificlocation.
Even in Anglo-Saxon England, wehave this fascinating practice
of high seat pillars, which werelike carved posts that were so
important to the ancestralpractice that the sellers would
(04:39):
throw them overboard their boatsand build their new settlement
wherever they washed ashore.
These weren't just decorativeposts, they were physical links
to their ancestors.
It's kind of cool.
Right Now let's talk about somecommon practices across
different cultures, because thisis where things get practical.
(05:02):
Despite what some modern authorsmight tell you, ancestor
veneration wasn't somemysterious, complicated practice
.
It was actually prettystraightforward and simple, and
that's good news for us modernfolks trying to reconstruct
these practices.
The basic elements show upalmost everywhere we look.
You have a designated space inthe home, regular offerings
(05:25):
usually food and drink andspecific times when more
elaborate rituals may have beenperformed.
The Romans had their Lillaria,or household shrines, where they
honored both ancestors andhousehold spirits.
We have actual preservedexamples from Pompeii showing
exactly how these were set upand may have been used.
(05:48):
Norse households had high seatswith pillars dedicated to their
ancestors.
Even in Celtic, evidencesuggests that there were similar
practices, though they were abit more private about it and
didn't write as much down for us, though they were a bit more
private about it and didn'twrite as much down for us.
(06:12):
One particular interestingexample comes from the Baltic
region, where practices survivedwell into the Christian era.
Lithuanian families maintainedspecial rooms or corners called
again my pronunciation NamusFinta, or sacred places of the
home, where ancestors werehonored alongside other spirits.
They kept special cloths thatwere only used for ancestral
(06:35):
offerings, and special foodswere prepared according to
family recipes passed downthrough generations.
But here's the thing thatreally jumps out when you study
these practices they werepractical.
These weren't elaborateceremonies performed once a year
.
This was daily life.
(06:56):
This was setting aside thefirst portion of dinner.
This was pouring out a drinkbefore you took a sip.
This was maintaining arelationship, not necessarily
performing a ritual or worship.
So let's talk about how we canpractice this today, because
that's really what you're allhere for, right.
(07:17):
I'm going to guide you throughtwo specific exercises that you
can try this week for ancestorveneration.
One is going to be a morninggreeting.
The other is like a weeklylittle ritual.
Okay so the first one, we'regoing to call it the morning
greeting.
It's based on a Roman practiceof the morning salutatio, but
(07:41):
simplified it more.
You know a few steps for justmodern daily life.
Choose a consistent time eachmorning, stand before your
ancestral shrine or some photos,or we'll get into the shrine
later, but just stand beforeyour shrine or the area that
you're doing this in Light, acandle.
Turn on an electric candle,turn on a light, however.
(08:04):
You know you feel, pour twodrinks.
You know like feel, pour twodrinks.
You know like, if you drinkcoffee or tea or water first
thing in the morning, maybe,pour two cups of coffee, one for
you, one for an ancestor.
Greet them explicitly, you know.
Say good morning ancestors, orgood morning grandma or grandpa
or Dio, whoever you're wantingto spend that relationship with
(08:28):
that morning Take a couple ofminutes to tell them about your
plans for the day, how you feel,Ask for their guidance or
support in that specific area.
You know, while you're talkingto them, drink your drink, you
know, leaving theirs untilyou're completely done.
When you're finished, thankthem and then dispose of your
drink, either outdoors or, ifyou're in a more urban area and
(08:52):
you can't just pour your coffeeor tea outside, just pour it
down the drain.
But that kind of gives you anidea of how these types of
ancestral ceremonies would takeplace on a daily basis.
I have a small shrine sitting upon top of a cabinet over here
(09:13):
that I use and it's got someancestral and we'll kind of get
into like some things that youcan put on your ancestor shrine.
But one of the things it has onthere is some memorabilia from
my dog and I sometimes take timeto spend time talking to him as
well.
But moving on, you know, beyondthat daily ritual that you can
(09:37):
have and it could be a morningritual, it could be something at
the end of your day to justtalk about your day, to unload,
just pick a certain time of thedayend that time talking to an
ancestor or all your ancestorsin general, and, yeah, see how
it goes.
The second little exercise thatI would recommend is something
(10:00):
like a weekly meal this isadapted more from Germanic
practices and go through thesteps and then we'll kind of
explain that as we go through.
Number one choose one meal perweek as your ancestor meal.
Set an extra place at the tablefor an ancestor Before eating.
Announce you know, I share thismeal with my ancestors, or, hey
(10:22):
, we're sharing this meal withgrandma today.
Place a small portion of eachfood on that ancestral plate
while you're eating your meal,mindfully thinking about that
ancestor, because you've broughttheir presence in there
mentally Think about theirfamily stories or memories with
that individual, if you havethem.
Leave the ancestors portion outfor the duration of the meal
(10:48):
and then, once after you've kindof cleaned up, you can dispose
of that.
Me personally, I like to leavefood and drink offerings outside
for wildlife and to kind oflike, give that back to nature.
But, depending on your ownsituations, dispose of it how
you can and, yeah, just disposeof it respectfully Outdoors.
(11:12):
Give it to birds, animals.
Like I say, I give mine to thewildlife.
As far as that, one meal perweek.
Living in the South, we havesort of a tradition of Sunday
dinner.
It kind of stems from churchtimes and things like that, but
even religion aside, it's becomereally a tradition that the
(11:33):
family gets together for Sundayafternoon and has a big dinner.
It's a way to mix and mingleand keep those familial ties
together, and that's a greattime to do it.
Or you can have, you know, aThursday night dinner for
ancestors or Friday night orhowever you want to plan.
It.
Just kind of set aside a littlebit of time just for that and
(11:55):
it really just brings thoseancestors and the wisdom and you
start thinking about thememories and the life lessons
that they may have taught youand these lessons can come back
and help you through your day.
So, yeah, just take some time,try out those two exercises a
(12:20):
morning greeting or dailygreeting and a weekly offering
meal of some sort.
Let's talk about setting up yourspace, your ancestor shrines,
because that's usually where alot of people want to start with
this.
Historically, ancestor shrineswere often pretty simple.
You didn't need fancy statuesor expensive items on these
shrines, you just needed a clean, dedicated space and some basic
items for offerings.
That's it Today.
(12:42):
This could be as simple as ashelf, a windowsill or even the
corner of your desk or thecenter of your dining room table
.
So what goes on in this shrine?
We'll discuss some of thebasics.
You definitely want something torepresent your ancestors.
This could be inherited items,something that was very specific
(13:02):
to a specific ancestor.
Photos work great.
You can have photos of yourpeople.
Heirlooms essentially just aname written down on a card or
even symbols of your heritagework just fine.
So if you have like symbols oflike your history, your heritage
, you know maybe a country youcame from, you know where your
(13:25):
people are, you know originatethe ancestors you want to
venerate having symbols of that.
So if you're Celtic, a Celticknot, if your ancestors are from
Africa, you can have someAfrican memorabilia or anything
really of that nature.
You want a place for theseofferings.
This could be a plain bowl orcup.
(13:47):
Archaeological evidence showsthat for the most part, our
ancestors used common everydayitems for these offerings.
They didn't have some likebejeweled chalice for these
offerings.
They had the same kinds ofbowls that they would use every
day on their ancestral shrines.
So it's more evidence for you.
(14:15):
To keep these things simple andnot so elaborate.
It's customary to have someform of light.
Historically this would be likea candle or a flame.
Today you might use likeelectric candles.
Specifically, if you live in anapartment, you're not allowed
to have open flames, thoselittle LED tea lights or some
(14:37):
other type of battery-operatedcandle or, honestly, those
little LED fairy lights.
You can light up your altar,your shrine, that way as well,
and that's valid.
Some other items you may want tohave on your shrine would be,
(14:58):
as I mentioned, items thatrepresent your heritage or
family traditions.
It might be traditional crafts.
So if you have a Cherokeeancestor, you want to talk to.
Some traditional basket weavingwould be really fun to have on
there.
Maybe something that would belike your offering bowl could be
a traditionally weaved basket.
(15:19):
You can use tools of familytrades.
So if you've come from a longline of carpenters, or even you
know we live in the modern age,you know you have like three
generations of truck drivers inyour family, it could be, you
know, grandpa's trucker cap.
So something that representsyou know, that family trade, the
(15:39):
heritage, the heirlooms or, asI mentioned, symbols of your
culture.
And remember these items.
They serve one major purpose.
It's really the only purpose ofthese items on your shrine is
to remind you of the ancestorand to keep them in your
thoughts and mind.
(16:00):
I will repeat that the items onyour shrine serve one purpose,
and that is just simply toremind you of them.
Okay, now we're going to tacklethe elephant in the room.
(16:22):
What about difficult ancestors?
What about family trauma?
What about ancestors who?
What about family trauma?
What about ancestors who didterrible things?
There's really nobody free fromthat in modern time.
All of our ancestors at somepoint did something terrible.
It's there, but here's what youneed to remember about that.
(16:44):
It's there, but here's what youneed to remember about that.
Historical ancestor venerationwasn't about pretending everyone
in your tree was perfect.
It wasn't about only honoringthose people that were perfect.
The sagas are full ofcomplicated family relationships
(17:05):
.
Medieval chronicles documentfamily feuds that would last for
generations, yet the practiceof ancestor veneration still
continued.
It was about acknowledging thereality that you wouldn't be
here without them and thatworking to heal and transform
(17:27):
difficult legacies formdifficult legacies.
In many traditions, ancestorswere seen as capable of growth
and transformation.
After death, the living had aresponsibility to help heal
those ancestral wounds.
The same way you may have anancestor that was racist as hell
(17:52):
and like a grandparent or agreat-grandparent that did not
approve of your interracialrelationship you were in.
It's still important to try tofor yourself as well as for them
to try to mend thoseconnections and say, hey, you
know I still love you, grandma,but you know I'm happy we have
(18:13):
three kids now.
You can see that we are a goodfamily, even though we are in a
racial relationship, and usethose times, like that morning
greeting, to help heal thosefamily wounds.
I'm going to go through someFAQs or some troubleshooting
(18:36):
type things for ancestorveneration just to try to answer
some of the more commonquestions that I've gotten over
the past on this topic whenspeaking to people.
So, do you live in a tinyapartment?
Just know that a simple photoand a tea light on a windowsill
can be a shrine.
Or, just again, like I said,the center of your dining table,
(18:56):
corner of a desk, yournightstand beside your bed
Anything can really double as anancestor shrine.
Maybe you can't have visiblereligious items in your space.
I have a friend of mine who,due to some life circumstances,
was living she, being pagan, wasliving in a Christian kind of
(19:21):
center home for her and her baby.
So having pagan religioussymbols out was against the
rules.
So something like a photo albumcan be your shrine in plain
sight.
You can have photos of familymembers and for the outsider
that just have, you know, photosof family members, and for the
outsider that just looks likeyou want to remember your family
members.
So that's a you know, a littletip, a little trick that you can
(19:43):
have to have a ancestral shrinein plain sight.
Um, if you no space, again, likeI said, your coffee morning
ritual, your morning coffeeritual, doesn't really require
much space.
You can do it at your diningroom table, you can do it
sitting on the couch Just putthe extra coffee cup on the
coffee table in front of you.
Or, yeah, at your desk.
(20:05):
In the morning, when I'msitting at my desk, sometimes
I'll, you know, take that timeto speak with some of my
ancestors.
Are you worried about familyreactions?
Well, it's best to keep itsimple and private.
Like I said, a photo album, oryou can frame this whole
ancestral shrine as a familyhistory vintage memorabilia
(20:30):
collection that you can use toserve as your shrine.
You can have all these items ona shelf and just say, hey, I
just want to learn more about myfamily and I'd like to have
some photos of some ancestorshere just to kind of remind me
of them.
Or do you travel a lot?
You can create a way that I'veseen some people do this, uh,
(20:55):
like traveling altar.
You can do like a ancestralshrine in the same way through
like a little small box or evenan Altoids 10 or something like
that, where you can keep a photo, a tea light and maybe even a
small offering dish in there.
I mean, heck, you can even usethe Altoids 10 itself or the box
as the offering dish If you're,you know, really traveling a
(21:19):
lot and you don't have any wayto carry things like that around
, really having like a dedicatedfolder on your phone of
ancestral photos, symbols andthings like that that remind you
of these people, that remindyou of your culture, that you
can flip through and use that assort of a digital ancestral
(21:40):
shrine If you're living with.
I've had some people talk aboutlike depression or mental
illness with ancestral shrinesand it's really cool because,
again, it doesn't have to beelaborate, it could be something
very simple or just saying, hey, I remember you.
(22:01):
The ancestors understand whenwe're struggling, because they
struggled too and using thistime to it's almost, like you
know, like writing it in ajournal or speaking to a
therapist.
You can speak to your ancestorsin a lot of the same ways and
(22:22):
again heal that generationaltrauma or just heal your own
emotions and get those out ofyou.
It's really therapeutic.
If you're on a tight budget andyou can't afford, like shrine
items, that's perfectly okay.
As I said, use what you have.
(22:46):
These items that weretraditionally used for shrines
were common everyday items.
I mean a literal coffee mugthat was a free gift from your
job for whatever it was couldserve as an offering bowl, a
cheap bowl that you buy, thatyou can pick up at a thrift
store that just really connectedto you.
(23:07):
Maybe you had some symbolism onit that you like.
For a dollar it can, you know,double as your offering bowl.
You don't need fancy frames foryour photos.
I mean you can print it out ona standard printer, on printer
paper.
A photo of an ancestor.
If you found online, that wouldwork just fine.
Like I said, a photo albumworks perfectly fine for
(23:29):
something like this.
This is all about yourattention, not your wallet.
And the number one question Iget a lot of times when speaking
about ancestor veneration iswhat if I don't know my
biological family history?
(23:49):
You don't know any of yourancestors.
You don't even know who yourparents are, that's okay.
Work with your culturalancestors.
You don't even know who yourparents are, that's okay.
Work with your culturalancestors, chosen family
ancestors.
So if you know, you know whatcountry your ancestors
originated from or what regionyour ancestors originated from.
You know.
(24:09):
Consider the cultures of thatregion and you know.
Direct your ancestor venerationto the culture or to those
peoples, or something I tell alot of people like your family
is also the people you choose.
So if you were raised in anadopted family, you know your
(24:33):
parents, their parents or yourgrandparents.
Those people raised you.
It doesn't mean they're goingto stop guiding you after death,
that those ancestors, whetherthey're not your biological
ancestors, those people willcontinue to guide you and start
building your practice upon thator again, like cultural
(24:53):
ancestors or tradescraftancestors.
So if you want to put yourselfinto a trade, whether it's
leatherworking or stone masonry,whatever it is, you can look at
the ancestors, those heroes ofthat trade, as your ancestors
and bring them into yourancestral practice.
Remember, our ancestors had topractice discreetly too, so
(25:18):
we're in good company.
The archaeological record showsplenty of evidence of hidden
shrines and subtle practicesduring periods of religious
change.
They found ways to adapt, so wecan too.
So keep that in mind when youpractice.
It's not about the money, it'sabout the attention, it's about
(25:39):
remembering those ancestors,it's about reminding you of
those ancestors to keep them inyour thoughts and keep them in
your mind as we wrap up.
Today.
I want to emphasize somethingStart small, start simple and
(26:04):
start wherever you are.
Our ancestors didn't buildthese practices overnight, and
neither should we Begin with onesimple, sustainable practice
and just let it grow naturally.
That wraps us up for today.
(26:25):
The next episode exploresvarious types of sacred spaces
in ancient cultures, examiningtheir definitions, their
purposes and uses.
I'll even clarify thedistinctions between altars,
shrines, temples and evennatural sacred spaces like
groves, while exploring howdifferent cultures approach
these concepts and how they wereused in practical worship daily
(26:49):
Until then.
Just remember, nobody has allthe answers, but asking
questions that's where we learn.
So if you're practicingancestor veneration or planning
to start, I'd love to hear aboutit.
Drop by the Discord server.
Reach out to me on social media.
(27:09):
Check out oldgodsnewpaganscom.
Just share your experienceswith me so that we can learn and
grow together, and if you'reenjoying the show, please rate
it, review it wherever you getyour podcasts.
It really helps other pagansfind this podcast and trying to
teach these small, simple waysof practicing basic paganism so
(27:34):
that we can help people findtheir path.
This has been another Old Godsand New Pagans.
I'm Matt Holloway and untilnext time, keep asking those
questions, thank you.
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