November 5, 2024 • 38 mins
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EPISODE DESCRIPTION
In this episode, Mike is joined by Ryan Henderson CFP, CIM, FCSI. Ryan is a Financial Advisor at Edward Jones from Toronto, Ontario, who's been with Edward Jones for over 17 years, starting right before the 2008 financial crisis. Ryan works with individual investors, retirees, professionals, and business owners to achieve their personal and financial goals. Ryan earned an Honours Bachelor Degree in 2001 from the University of Western Ontario in London, and has been a Certified Financial Planner® since 2009. In addition, he holds the Chartered Investment Manager (CIM®) and am a Fellow of the Canadian Securities Institute (FCSI®).
Ryan is here to discuss:
→ How he got started in the financial industry and navigating the 2008 financial crisis, building trust and long-term success with clients through conversation and processes, and embracing human centred leadership.
→ Issues plaguing the Financial Advisor industry, what consumers should be looking for in financial guidance, and CIRO regulations and why more regulation is a good thing.
→ The mindset of a successful investor, looking for opportunities in fluctuating markets, and current trends in the overall market.
Edward Jones Website: www.edwardjones.ca
Ryan Henderson's Email: ryan.henderson@edwardjones.com
Ryan Henderson's LinkedIn: @RyanHenderson
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CONNECT WITH DNA LENDING GROUP
🔗 DNA Lending Group Website: www.dnalendinggroup.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome tothe sixth episode of Old School,
New World, The Life of anEntrepreneur.
I'm your host, Mike Diaz.
I'm going to be flying solo on
this episode.
And it's going to be a bit
different this year with respectsto what we're going to be
delivering to all of you.
So this is going to be a series of
episodes talking about the 30steps of success.
Now, those are steps that I haveput together to help others in
(00:35):
terms of what I've been doing overthe last 31 years that has led to
my success.
So I'm pulling back the curtain.
I want to share these things withyou.
And I believe and have faith thatif you incorporate or implement.
Some of these things, not all ofthem perhaps, but some, you will
have a tremendous success in yourown business and it would lead to
(00:56):
a referral -based business becausepart of these steps is to help
create that referral -basedbusiness, not based on, depending
on realtors or partners, financialplanners, accountants, but your
clients and friends.
So before I dive into all that,
let me tell you who I am.
So let me reintroduce myself as
(01:16):
you will.
So I used to be a banker.
I spent seven years with TD andthen 10 years with Scotia.
Before leaving Scotiabank, I was asenior manager down at their
flagship at Scotiabaza lookingafter the retail team of 40.
And I've been brokering consultingnow for 14 years.
And recently, in October, startedmy own brokerage, DNA Lending
Group.
So I want to be able to share some
of this information with you thatI've learned over all these years
(01:40):
and allow you the opportunity touse some of them to your advantage
for how you want to create yourbusiness.
Now, I'm going to use stories tosort of tie in a little bit of
what we're going to be deliveringtoday.
And of course, there are 30 steps,but I'm not going to do all 30 in
one episode.
Of course, that's just madness.
I'm going to split it up betweentwo to three of those steps during
every episode that we air thattalks to you about what we're
(02:00):
going to be doing.
Today's episode, we're going to
cover three.
It's going to be CRM, the follow
-up.
and sell the benefits.
Those are three steps of the 30.
And I'm not putting them in order
of importance.
They're all super important.
So it's not that I start with one,it's more important than the
other.
Not at all.
But I do have a preference.
I am starting with the CRM because
(02:23):
I do believe that's the mostimportant.
So let me talk to you a little bitabout the story that ties into
this.
And I said this during my lead up
when we let you know that theepisode was coming out.
A little train that could.
choo choo so little train that
could is a great story that's beentalked about for you know over 100
years it actually first came outin 1902 and it's about a train
that's asked to go up this reallysteep mountain to deliver toys to
the other side of the mountain.
(02:45):
Now, of course, the big
locomotives, they didn't wantanything to do with it.
They thought they were too good,too important.
So they asked on the little trainif they could deliver those toys.
And the little train said, yes,I'll give it a try.
Every time the train would try, itwould say, I think I can.
I think I can.
And lo and behold, of course, the
train made it up over the hill.
It shows the example of hard work,
(03:06):
optimism.
and the relationships that it
takes to get over a big hill.
And how does this tie into what we
do as mortgage brokers or mortgageagents?
It has a lot to do with it.
It's hard work that we need to do.
Some people see the mostsuccessful people and where they
are at, but they forget thosesuccessful people, I am telling
you with a thousand percentcertainty, had a lot of failures,
(03:27):
struggles.
They had to learn along the way.
So any entrepreneur that'ssuccessful will share their
stories like I'm doing a littlebit today because it's a way of
paying it forward and helping youget to where you want in terms of
your business.
So let me dive in to talk a little
bit about the very first one, theCRM.
Now, I got to tell you, you know,when I left the banking business
(03:50):
and became a broker.
I was scared shitless, to be very
honest with you.
I didn't know what to expect.
I thought back then, 14 years ago,when the bank says no, that's when
you go see a broker.
And that's absolutely not the
case.
And one thing I learned from the
banking system, and I do thinkbanking system is important.
You know, for all you youngbankers out there, you know, even
(04:11):
seasoned bankers, one thing Iwould tell my younger self if I
was doing this again is not tostay in the corporate world that
long.
My son says Nathan wants to be a
mortgage broker, and his mom and Iboth agree.
I think it's going to be importantfor him to start in a corporate
role so you can get an idea of howit works.
Remember, the banks have been inthe business for over 200 years.
So they know what they're doing.
(04:33):
Now, I'm not speaking disparaging
about the banks and lenders.
But I believe that you have to be
heart -centered.
You have to be authentic.
And sometimes it's hard to do thatin the corporate world because
they want you to sort of fitwithin their box.
But you can learn from greatleaders that are in that corporate
world.
You can even learn from bad
leaders because you can say toyourself, I didn't really like how
(04:55):
I was treated.
I didn't like how they treated
others.
I'm definitely not going to
implement that as I grow and buildmy business and my career to help
and serve others.
So it's important to understand
this.
So I would tell my younger self,
hey, go there.
but I would definitely not stay 17
years, maybe two, three, five, inmy opinion, is the max because you
can learn a lot, like I said.
And a lot of things that I learned
from both TD and Scotia is theidea of having a CRM or... a
(05:18):
platform that allows you to keeptrack of what's happening with
your clients.
So CRMs, you know, shout out to
Blue Mortgage.
That's the one I've chosen to use.
I've been using it now for justunder a year.
I believe it has a lot of greatfeatures, you know, maybe more
than you need.
I use the ones that I feel are the
most important.
For me, the CRM and how I use it
(05:40):
is particularly for journaling.
It's not just about, you know, a
client deal.
It's about what's happening before
we reach out, during.
And just as important, after the
transaction closes.
And so how do you do that?
How do you make a client know thatyou actually care about them?
You journal about yourconversations.
You know, in my process, what I dothat's really led to success for
me is I'll have, if you have alook, and I'm happy if anybody
(06:01):
wants to reach out, you know,reach out anytime, happy to share
what I've done and actually haveyou see it.
My first journey starts in 2013,starting to put in notes.
And those notes and thatjournaling has evolved, whether
it's for that person that washelping originally or how I've
changed it, what I've added in andwhat maybe I didn't need to add
(06:21):
in.
Because, you know, when you're
dealing with thousands of clientsand friends and you want to make
sure, as long as you're leadingwith the heart, that it's
important for them to feel you,not only hear what you're saying,
then, you know, you want to beable to build trust and
credibility.
How do you build trust and
credibility?By acknowledging conversations
you've had with clients, you know,whether it's the birth of a child,
whether it's a birthday, whetherit's a tough time and they opened
(06:43):
up and they were vulnerable withyou during your conversation, you
know, you're making a note becausewhen you're going back and you're
talking to them again, and if yourefer back to that, they're going
to feel that.
Like Maya Angelou said, you know,
it's not what you do or what yousay, it's how you make them feel.
That's what is memorable.
You know, that's what's
unreasonable.
You know, to be able to make
(07:05):
someone feel your passion, yoursupport, your willingness to help
and serve.
If you can have someone feel that,
oh man, I can tell you there'll bea client for life.
And again, remember this series isabout helping you understand how
to create a referral -basedbusiness.
So in saying that, it's importantto also understand that this just
doesn't apply.
to mortgage business.
These steps apply to any salesindustry, whether you're in life
insurance, home and autoinsurance, retail sales, any kind
(07:26):
of sales driven employment orcareer.
If you can make a connection withyour clients and friends that
you're dealing with, thatconnection is going to be really,
really, really difficult to break.
Because, you know, in today's
world of digital, like right nowwe're here and talking to you
through the camera, I still havevalue in meeting people personally
if the opportunity presentsitself.
(07:48):
I'm a bit old school maybe thatway.
But, you know, those are thethings that we have to make sure
we're doing properly.
And again, so back to the CRM, how
do we do them?We journal about it to communicate
the things that we've said.
Because, listen, I've been in
(08:10):
business 31 years.
It's impossible, you know, unless
you have a photographic memory or,you know, a memory that's just
maybe genius -like.
You can't remember every single
conversation that you've had withevery single person you've been
helping and serving.
But to help you, to support you,
you can journal it.
And, you know, in today's world
with technology and for the youngpeople out there.
You know, AI will be able to dothat.
Now have AI to create emails foryou.
(08:33):
It can have AI to be your ownpersonal assistant.
So there's all kinds of differentthings that you can incorporate,
but to have it in place, CRM orjournaling creates this connection
with your client.
When you have the ability to make
that connection, you create trustand credibility because, you know,
trust and credibility can betaught.
You know, a lot of people in anysales business, oh, you know,
(08:53):
somebody, you know, they're notjust going to buy from me because
I'm selling the best product.
They're going to buy because they
trust you.
They're going to buy because they
like you.
And they're going to buy from you
because they see you.
And what I mean by see you, they
see you're genuine, you'reauthentic.
You're not one person one day andanother person another day.
And it's important to make sureauthenticity is apparent.
(09:15):
And how does authenticity come tothe forefront?
And everybody talks about it.
They throw it out all the time.
You know, be authentic, beauthentic.
Just find a way to just becomfortable with who you are and
be comfortable with what youbelieve in.
Know what your values andprinciples are.
And those things typically willlead to that idea of being
authentic.
There is a law, the law of
(09:36):
authenticity.
The greatest gift you can give
anyone is yourself.
When you are authentic, what ends
up happening is it magnetizes youto people.
So you're out there, you know,whether it's at a function,
whether it's just with friends andyou are, you know, being true to
yourself, that authenticity,somebody will look from the corner
and say, hey, who is that guy?Who is that girl?
(09:56):
I need to go talk to them becausethere's just something that's
drawing me to them.
That's that magnetism because, you
know, when you're authentic,there's energy that flows from
you.
So how have I been using the CRM
I'm implementing?So not only do we have my notes
that I deal with clients andfriends, you know, my team,
especially in today's world,sometimes you're working from home
(10:17):
and working in the office,depending on the hybrid models
that you have, you know, you'renot only wanting to journal and
write notes on the actualtransaction.
It's a way of communicating if youhave a dedicated underwriter, if
you have an associate to be ableto put notes into the system so
they understand, you know, whatthey're doing and what you're
needing them to do for you becauseyou've talked to the client and
you've looked after that way.
(10:38):
So it's another way how the CRM
can be super valuable.
You know, we've used it this way a
lot, but, you know, there'scampaigns that you can run or just
communication with clients,whether it's a beginning of the
year.
Hey, here's what's happening this
year or year in review.
Here's what happened last year.
And here's what we should expecthappening this year.
You can communicate that outautomation through CRM.
(10:58):
That helps a lot.
But the key here with the CRM is
that it really becomes thespringboard, really the only
springboard that you need tocreate a longevity of business.
Because, you know, a lot of thetime I believe, and it's served me
well, that we are the center ofwhat's happening.
Because, you know, without amortgage broker or agent providing
counsel.
advice, guidance, you know,
everyone else around.
Realtors, unfortunately, won't
have transactions to clients topurchase.
Accountants can't file taxesbecause people are making income.
(11:20):
Financial advisors can't continueto create wealth for clients
because real estate, when it comesto financial planning, is one of
the pillars to help springboard.
Because if you get into the
market, client comes to you andasks you, what's your opinion on
what we should do?then, you know, you can leverage
what you're starting.
There's two necessities in life,
guys.
There's food and shelter.
So that's why shelter is such animportant piece in Canadian
(11:40):
culture in terms of homeownership.
And once you're able to do that,work hard, pay down that mortgage,
take advantage of the prepaymentsthat are available.
And you're going to share those,the information you're going to
share with them.
Then, you know, they could be able
to leverage.
So you'll be able to make a
referral yourself to someone else.
(12:04):
I, you know, been very fortunate.
and how I've created my ownbusiness.
My business is 95 % from clientsand friends.
I have referral partners, peoplethat I deal with, talk to every
day, but it's not a reciprocalrelationship.
And that served me well, evenduring the toughest times, you
know, when people were, oh man,I'm slow, you know, real estate
(12:24):
agents weren't closing ontransactions because the world was
happening with interest rates.
That ability to continue to grow
your business, keep your businessgrowing and earning an income for
your family is paramount.
And then that way you disconnect
from being dependent on others'success.
And if you're depending on yourown success, that's important
because remember that hard workthat we have to put in, the little
train that could, you know, Ithink I can, I think I can.
(12:47):
So you absolutely can.
So one of the first steps that we
want to take advantage of in anysales business is the CRM, or as I
like to describe it, thejournaling of the interaction.
of what's happening, how we cancontinue to build on that.
So once you have the CRM you'recomfortable with and you're taking
advantage of, it still plugs intostep number two.
So step number one, of course, wasthe CRM.
(13:07):
Step number two is the follow -up.
Now, I love the follow -up and the
CRM plays into that because youcan either buy automation and I'll
explain how I've done my follow-up.
You put in a task into the CRM.
to follow up with clients.
You know, when I talk to agentsout there and people in any sales
business and they say, oh, youknow, I reached out to my client
(13:32):
and we had a really good initialconversation, but, you know, I
followed it up and they nevercalled me back.
And I think to myself, oh, that'sinteresting.
And one of the very firstquestions I have is, oh, tell me,
how many times did you follow up?Well, I followed it up, you know,
a whole two times.
And I think to myself, wow.
Two times, that's what youconsider following up.
(13:54):
I don't know.
You know, it's funny.
80 % of sales require five follow-up calls after the initial
meeting.
This is a number that is shocking
to me. 94 % of sale reps give upafter one follow -up.
You know, I just don't thinkthat's acceptable.
Here's a secret, pulling back thatcurtain.
In terms of when you're talking toclients in your initial
(14:16):
conversation, or even if it's noteven about a transaction, you're
just talking to them.
Get their permission.
If you obtain permission, becauseyou don't have the right to do boo
with anyone unless you have theirpermission.
So if you're talking to them, I'llgive you a little sort of example.
Ran to someone, talked about mybusiness because us entrepreneurs,
we love talking about ourbusiness.
I'll say something to the effectof, hey, Samantha, it was great
chatting with you.
You know, I would love your
(14:37):
permission to keep in touch withyou.
And guess what?Samantha?
We'll say, oh, yes, absolutely.
You have my permission.
Bingo.
They've given you permission.
Until they tell you to beat it,you're now allowed to follow up
and keep in touch with them.
Not only about trying to sell them
on something, but you may justwant to share information during
that conversation you had.
Back to the CRM, you're
(14:58):
journaling.
Oh, Samantha really enjoyed
traveling.
And she wanted to see these three
countries.
Guess what?
When you're following up.
You can say, hey, by the way,
Samantha, we were talking aboutBali.
I've been to Bali and this is ahotel I stayed at and it was super
amazing.
Have a look at it.
Boom.
You know, that continues then to
establish trust.
(15:18):
It shows that you actually
genuinely care.
Remember, the key to a lot of
this, keep on referring this, isheart -centered.
You have to want to help and servepeople, you know, genuinely.
You can't just, oh, I'm going togive them this travel tip because,
you know, just for because.
It has to be because you had a
(15:38):
good conversation, you connected,you felt like you connected with
them, and then sharing differentthings outside of what you
actually do.
Because remember, someone will
only buy from you.
I shouldn't say only, but majority
of the time will only buy from youif they like you and if they trust
you.
It doesn't matter if you're
propping up this thing that you'reselling, whether it's vacuums,
knives, mortgages, insurance, theyhave to connect with you.
(16:00):
So that's a really important piecenot to forget when you're going
through that.
So once they give you that
permission, bingo, bango, Bob'syour uncle, you can actually
continue to follow up until theytell you to beat it.
Now, I'll give you an example ofmy own personal story.
I follow up until, you know, itdoesn't seem at all possible, but
these I'm talking about, I don'twant to exaggerate.
I'll follow up, you know, up to 20times before I decide, okay, maybe
(16:24):
this is not that one I'm going tospend the time with.
But then what I do, and I've donethis now with my executive
associate, Melanie will follow up.
So then that way it frees up my
time, right?I can't continue to follow up, but
then she'll follow up by email andsomeone else other than you.
following up a lot of the timewe'll get them engaged you know a
lot of people think oh you know idon't want to lose control of my
(16:49):
client i'm not going to getsomeone else to follow up i got to
tell you guys perception mattersif you've made the attempt to
follow up and someone else issupporting you like an executive
associate clients will payattention to that you know it's
human behavior oh mike was callingme but now you know melody's
calling on mike's behalf maybe ishould get back so let me tell you
(17:11):
about a story i had a client Hadone of the best conversations I've
had in a while with them.
Felt, yeah, this is going to be a
client that I think I had successwith.
You know, we connected well and wetalked about a lot of different
things and I followed up.
So my follow -up process, if I
have an initial conversation witha client, depending on sort of
(17:32):
what stage they're at, we'llfollow up a week later, then a
week after that, a week afterthat.
So we continue to build thatprocess.
I was nine follow -ups in.
And this is probably about four or
five years ago.
So I was still doing a lot of my
own before Melanie came on boardin her role.
And I was at number nine.
And I thought to myself, man, you
know, I thought I had this clientand things were well.
Follow up number 10.
Here we go.
Let's see what happens.
He picked up.
(17:52):
Well, hey, there he is.
How are you?
You know, I've been able to get ahold of you.
How have you been keeping?And the first thing that he says,
hey, Mike, thanks so much forcontinuing to follow up.
I've been swamped with work.
I've been meaning to call you.
Every time you call, I go, ohyeah, I got to call Mike back.
And we had a really goodconversation, laughed it off.
And lo and behold, not only did Ihelp him with a purchase, we
refinanced his home to make thatpurchase.
(18:12):
And then he then in turn referredtwo of his friends.
So out of that 10 follow -upprocess, I was able to help and
serve him with two transactions.
And I was able to help and serve
his two friends who in turn, guesswhat they did?
They refer clients.
And that's the way the system
works to build a referral basedbusiness.
So this idea when I hear someonesay, Mike, you know, I followed up
two times or even three times.
I don't know.
I don't buy that.
(18:33):
Maybe you hesitate because don't
forget, you have to get permissionbecause I can understand if I met
you and I'm talking to you and younever got permission or never even
made the comment about, hey, I'mgoing to keep in touch with you.
What's your business card or anyof that?
Or maybe you took my contact.
And then you're just trying to get
a hold of me to sell me something.
I'm very likely not going to like
that, not going to feelcomfortable with it.
So I might say no, or I may notcall back ever.
(18:55):
So that's why getting permissionfrom the very beginning is key to
the follow -up process.
So when you're helping and serving
someone, it's not the transactionitself that's the most important.
It's how you're dealing and makingsomeone feel before.
So meaning when you're meetingthem, during.
helping and serving, going throughall the details, and then after.
So, you know, so many people I'vetalked to, clients, our friends
that have used brokers in thepast, and I know they've used a
broker because it's with, let'ssay, one of our monoline lenders.
(19:18):
One of the questions I ask, oh,you know, what happened with your
other broker?Why didn't you go back to them?
99 .9 % of the time, I've neverheard from Joe or Samantha or the
broker at all.
Big win for me because I'm helping
and serving them.
Big loss for the other broker.
Maybe they didn't have a processin place.
Maybe they're only focused on thetransaction.
And so they didn't spend the timefollowing up.
(19:40):
So I want to give you my exampleof my follow -up.
95 % of my business is referral-based.
Joe Smith refers over Hillary.
Hey, Hillary, how are you?
Thank you so much for reachingout.
We have a conversation.
Tell me a little bit about how I
can help and serve you.
I know so -and -so is kind enough
to put in touch, which means alot.
I'll be sure to thank them.
And then, of course.
(20:01):
I have a follow -up with thereferral source, meaning just a
thank you.
And then I'll look after them on
the other side with just a littlethank you card, things like that.
But nonetheless.
So helping the transaction, we go
through the details, theconversation.
And the conversation, guys, youneed to know when you're having
this conversation with them, it'snot about finding out all their
(20:23):
personal stuff.
Because they're calling you for an
immediate need.
They're calling you to counsel
them, to give them advice, and tohelp them understand this wild,
wonky world of mortgage financing.
Focus on that, you know, focus on
that conversation because I cantell you and I can promise you if
you focus on that conversation andyou're going to help them with
this immediate need as you gothrough back to the follow up and
(20:44):
I'll explain all this to you guys.
Once you start helping them there,
then other things open up.
You start hearing more about them.
You start to hear their painpoints, maybe why they're feeling
a certain way about one thing orthe other.
Maybe they've had a bad experiencein the past.
You know, so I had a client, forexample, recently said she went
through some fraudulent activitywith someone and she was very, you
(21:07):
know, wanted to make sure theprocess made sense and she was
concerned that, you know, who'sthis Melanie person following up?
Well, who's this Sean person?And I had to explain my, this is
my team.
You can trust them.
I trust them with my life.
And so that was one of her rocks,
those bags of rocks I talk aboutsometimes.
She was caring, rightfully so.
You have to make sure that they're
fully comfortable with who youare.
So once I'm talking to thatclient, I send them out an email.
In that email, I, of course, havemy team.
(21:29):
Sean will follow up within a weekas a friendly reminder if we don't
see things.
And of course, when I tell my
clients and friends or whoever I'mtalking to, with your permission,
I'll send you an email with NextSteps.
Yes, Mike, absolutely.
You have my permission.
Boom.
Permission granted.
And that's permission for alifetime.
until they tell you, stopfollowing up with me, leave me
alone.
And so Sean will follow up a week
(21:50):
later as a friendly reminder.
And typically within that week,
clients always send in therequested items needed.
And then Melanie will set upeither a Calendly call invite or a
Calendly Zoom invite.
Zoom is preferred for me because a
lot of clients can't make it in.
I still, especially for first
-time homebuyers folks, you shouldbe meeting first -time homebuyers
in person because they're nervous,they don't know.
They want to feel comfortableabout what they're doing and
(22:12):
getting themselves into.
So I would highly, highly, highly
recommend meet with first -timehomebuyers, at least minimum via
Zoom.
Can't shake hands and stuff via
Zoom.
I still feel it's a bit
impersonal, but that's just my twocents.
So Melanie will set that up.
We'll share our screen at DNA
Lending Group.
We refer to our partners because,
you know, sometimes we only expectreferrals in.
So I always ask, do you have arealtor you like and trust?
Sometimes we'll say, no, we don't.
(22:33):
No problem.
We have a trusted referral partnerteam and we make that referral,
you know, because it's not allabout what you take in.
It's what you give out.
You know, there's another law, the
law of receptivity.
It's better to give than to
receive, but you must be open toreceiving.
So I always love to give, youknow, I've created a system where,
you know, I have the ability torefer out to a lot of different
people in different industries.
(22:53):
And then I'm absolutely open to
receiving.
And some people struggle with
receiving.
They, oh, no, it's fine.
It's OK.
It's OK.
And that's just sort of reciprocalhow that happens.
So we review the numbers.
They didn't have one.
We refer one.
If they have one, we ask for their
realtor's information so we can bein touch with their realtor during
the process.
That makes it a lot more seamless.
Because remember, you want to trywhatever you can to make the
(23:15):
transaction unreasonable.
What I mean by unreasonable.
Go over and beyond anything theywould think, wow, that's just
wild.
They're doing this to help and
serve us.
So you want to make that process.
So introduce yourself to theirrealtor.
Now you have someone in yourdatabase that's a realtor, even
though you never referred anyoneto them, but they'll see your
skill set.
They'll see how much you care
about the clients.
(23:35):
They'll see how involved you are,
you and your team.
And that allows them to say, well,
you know, next time they'rethinking about someone and they're
thinking of a mortgage broker.
oh, you know, I had this really
positive experience.
They may, you know, not remember
exactly what happened, but I'lltell you, remember what's in here
and how you made them feel by, youknow, making sure that their
(23:58):
client, our client, as I like todescribe it, was well looked
after.
So once that happens and that
introduction is made and they finda home, I jump back into the
equation.
We go through all the details to
talk about the products.
And then...
We send it off, get it approved.
We'd like to complete a file
anywhere between two to threeweeks before closing, if at all
possible.
Something I've learned over 31
(24:18):
years, especially first -timehomebuyers, are super stressed.
You know, like, oh, my God, somemore, even though you've told
them.
You know, you've given them all
the peace of mind.
Yeah, you're fine.
Lenders are slow.
You know, they're just reviewing.
They're going to do the finalcheck.
You know, it's not uncommon forthem to take this long, which is
typical.
You know, anybody who's in our
business, you'll know what I'msaying.
Like these turnaround times arejust like, oh, nonetheless,
they're always anxious.
(24:39):
Like, oh, my goodness.
The minute you can close that fileand the last step is for them to
visit with their lawyer.
It's just load off.
You know, Mike and his team wereable to take care of this and, you
know.
Wow, we're three weeks out from
closing.
That's amazing.
So that's something that I thinkis really important in that whole
(25:00):
process.
And then what happens in the
continued follow -up?Everything gets closed.
Everything happens.
I follow up personally a week
after closing.
And I'll say, hey, so -and -so, I
want to make sure the experiencewas what you expected and that
you're happy with things.
I ask for a referral during that
phone call.
Hey, we would love the opportunity
to help and serve anyone you careabout.
Please put us in touch withsomeone via email that you think
(25:24):
we might be able to help andserve.
And lo and behold, surelythereafter, they're having dinner
or they're celebrating their newhome.
They have people over, friends.
Hey, this is a great home.
How did you do it?Your name comes up.
So that's part of that.
We're creating a referral -based
business.
And then the true follow -up that
I believe in that happens.
Melanie has taken this over for
me, the six -month follow -up.
Six -month follow -up typically is
(25:45):
just checking in.
Hey, how's the new home?
Are you implementing thestrategies that we talked about?
Here are some key ideas, thatreminder of what Mike chatted with
you about biweekly, accelerated,increase your payments.
If you've taken a variableproduct, keep your payment the
same.
If you're comfortable, pays off
the mortgage faster, things ofthat nature.
That's six months.
I pick up the phone at the two
-year mark, and then I pick up thephone again at the three -and -a
-half -year mark.
(26:06):
I pick up the phone again at the
six months prior to maturity.
Those are all personal calls done
by yours truly because I lovedoing it.
If you don't notice the excitementI have about this stuff or the
fact that I love talking, a thingthat I enjoy about our business is
connecting with people andchatting.
And I can count thousands of timesthis has happened.
Not so much at the two -yearfollow -up call.
Sometimes it does.
A lot of the time at the three and
(26:27):
a half year.
Hey, Mike, I was just thinking
about you.
Wow, that's wild that you're
calling me.
You know, so -and -so are
expecting a baby in six months.
We likely need to refinance or we
want to sell and buy.
And then I talk about things like,
hey, have you thought aboutkeeping your property as a rental?
Maybe that would work.
You know, you've put in a lot of
the soft costs into this property.
(26:49):
Maybe keep it.
We run numbers, boom, boom, boom,boom.
And we walk them through thataspect.
Now, the follow -ups, I follow upfour times myself on the two -year
or three and a half year.
And then I'll push it over to
Melanie to follow up via emailanother four or five times.
Typically within that stretch oftime, somebody will always get
back to us, even if it's just anemail.
The other thing that's important,how does the CRM tie into the
follow -up?Because I have all my notes in
(27:11):
there, right?So when I'm following up, I'm
reverting back.
Like if they said they just had a
child, child's name is there.
Oh, how is so -and -so?
Or I've sent them down an email.
And again.
creates trust and credibilitybecause you're genuinely caring
about that individual.
You're not caring about the
transaction.
You know, everybody focuses on the
transaction because everybodywants to, you know, get
compensated and things like that.
(27:32):
But, you know, I know as hard as
this may be, especially for newpeople, always make the results
the last thing.
You know, back to, again, a little
train that could, you know, theoptimism, the hard work, the
dedication.
I think I can.
I think I can.
That refers to effort, time,
activity equals your results.
You know, the little train that
could have got over that mountain,not because, you know, he was
better than anyone else.
In fact, the big locomotive said,
(27:52):
ah, no, that's too good for me.
I don't care about that.
It's about the desire, thediscipline, the activities, the
effort that you put behind to beable to climb that mountain, get
over the top and deliver what itis that needs to be delivered.
And to me, It's an unreasonableexperience that clients and
friends will have with you.
That's what we focus on.
That's what we believe isimportant because, you know,
there's so many different thingsout there.
There's thousands upon thousandsof brokers and agents out there.
(28:13):
So you want to be unreasonablewhen it comes to what you're doing
for your clients and friends.
So, so far.
We have CRM as step number one.
We have the follow -up as the
second step.
The last one I'm going to talk
about today, sell the benefits.
So guys, you know, when we're
helping and serving clients and inour business, and again, I'm just
going to relate to the mortgageindustry, it's really easy because
we really only have two productsto sell.
(28:34):
Fixed product or a variableproduct.
Yes, there's different providers.
You know, obviously you have
HELOCs, but it all comes in oneand the same in terms of what
you're selling.
If we're doing a really good job
with our clients and friends,we're bringing up life insurance,
creditor insurance to protecttheir family.
It's part of the advice and thecounsel, right?
We're not just order takers.
If you are an order taker, think
about how you get away from beingan order taker and how you bring
yourself to being an advisor,someone that counsels people,
(28:57):
someone that provides trustedadvice.
When we are selling the benefits,I have one word for you guys,
value.
You know, value is so important
when it comes to what we do,because as it relates to
mortgages, clients and friends andconsumers will choose a low rate
over a product that makes moresense because there is an absence
of value in what you'redelivering.
(29:17):
So what do they do?They pivot on just a lower rate.
So value.
It's so important.
Value in who you are, value in theproduct that you're proposing
after hearing what's important tothem, showing them based on the
conversations that you had withthem and that they shared with
you, that this would be what youwould recommend if you could make
a recommendation.
You know, you can make
(29:37):
suggestions, adding value.
And in our world, you know, with
everything that's going on withinterest rates, get away.
from talking about interest rates.
Because if you get trapped in
talking about interest rates, wow,man, it's going to be a long haul.
You have to refocus and refocusingyour attention to value over price
will eliminate the conversationaround the rate.
(29:59):
Yes, rates are important.
Nobody wants to pay 30, 40 basis
points higher than the guy nextdoor.
And nobody ever should.
Now, if there's a product that has
tremendous amount of value andit's 0 .05 or 0 .1 higher than
this lower rate, then it's up tous to provide the value.
So I'll give you an example.
If you have a client putting down
(30:20):
30%, 40 % and in your conversationwith them, they tell you, my
family and I would love to have acottage in the next three to five
years.
And we're thinking about how we're
going to do that.
From one of our non -bank lenders,
they had a really low ratevariable at today's world, 4 .7%.
But yet there's another productthat has a variable rate at 4 .9%.
(30:41):
It's a 20 basis points difference.
But that 4 .9 has a secure line of
credit feature.
How do you provide value?
You go through the benefits ofthat product.
Sell the benefits.
Hey, Joe Smith.
You and your wife, never say wife,always ask for names.
I should have said that at thebeginning.
So it's Claudia.
Hey, Joe, you and Claudia
mentioned this was important toyou.
It's always good to relate becauseremember, there's only one thing
(31:04):
people actually own.
It's their name.
So just be mindful when you'retalking to clients and friends
about that.
Always try to use their name.
I think it's just a great touch.
So, hey, you said this was
important to you.
You know, we're having a
conversation about you wanting tobuy a cottage and you didn't know
(31:29):
how that was going to happen.
Well, here.
If you have a secure line ofcredit, and as you pay down your
mortgage, that line of creditbecomes more available.
Because remember, they're puttingdown 30%, 40%.
Even if they only put down 20%,that line of credit will increase
(31:51):
over time, saving them from havingto refinance to pull out equity.
If that's something they said,hey, Mike, three years from now,
we might want to refinance.
Do what's in their best interest.
Explain what's in their bestinterest.
Because refinancing, you know,penalty, you might have to do
other costs.
There's things you have to
evaluate.
That's where you're providing
value.
(32:12):
That's where the conversation from
4 .7 falls.
And then they're focused on their
product, the value providedbecause of what you understood of
what they wanted three to fiveyears from now.
How does this tie in to the CRM,into journaling?
(32:33):
Because if you're having aconversation, when you're doing
your two -year follow -up, You'regoing to look at your notes that
you've done.
And I always date stamp it.
It's all very organized.
Again, reach out anytime.
I'm happy to meet with you inperson or over Zoom to show you
how I've structured journalingwith clients.
(32:55):
Because again, it's all aboutpulling back the curtain.
During that two -year follow -up,I read my notes.
Oh, Joe and Claudia said theywanted to buy a cottage.
At the time, they put less than 20% down.
Whatever the case is, it allows meto have another conversation about
something that they said wasimportant to them.
two years ago, three and a halfyears ago, or whenever that
timeframe was.
And by me approaching it and
(33:16):
talking to them.
And remember, when I'm making my
follow -ups, it just so happenedthat he mentioned this.
I'm going to bring it up to him,but I'm not calling to sell
anything.
That's the important thing to
remember.
Going back to step two, follow
-up.
You're not following up to sell.
You're actually following up tofollow up.
(33:38):
How you doing?How's life treating you?
How's work going?You said your boss is an asshole.
Has he gotten any better?whatever it is.
But if there are notes, becauseyou did a good job taking your
notes and journaling, and there isan opportunity to say, hey, are
you still thinking about this?You can have a really good,
fruitful conversation.
So it's important to convey a lot
of this value through stories.
You know, whether you're a new
person or an experienced person,you know, you would have had
(33:59):
experiences with clients, sharestories.
And even if it's a sad story, ifyou're talking about insurance, so
there's... creditor insurance,there's life insurance to protect
their family.
I've had several stories of
families that got a home, saidthey were going to get insurance.
Unfortunately, six months later,something happened to the spouse
and the remaining spouse that wasstill alive had to sell their home
because they couldn't afford it.
And so when you hear stories like
(34:20):
that, it's difficult to hear themand know that maybe I could have
done a little more.
Maybe I could have shared this
story.
And you're not breaking anybody's
confidentiality.
You're telling them a story about
a real -life example of somethingthat feels important for them to
share.
So you're adding value through
storytelling.
Just like I started today's
(34:42):
episode talking about the littletrain that could, it's to help
create this understanding of IThink I Can, a tale that was over
100 years old that was told tokids to help them understand
determination, optimism.
Story talks about relationships,
you know, how sometimes we thinkwe're too good for something, but
we're not.
So telling stories to help people
understand the big picture is oneof the things that are really
(35:02):
important.
I almost forgot.
I'll give you an example of thefollow up.
A lot of you will know RyanSerhant, you know, super
successful real estate agent inNew York and does a lot of
different things out on social.
He had a story about his follow
-up when he first started in thebusiness.
He had no shame.
He had just started.
He was in a coffee shop and he raninto a couple, got their
(35:23):
information, got their permission.
He kept in touch with them and
followed up for seven years, neverhearing from them in that seven
-year period.
Just kept on following up.
He's a grinder.
He's a hustler.
He's had drive.
He wanted to be successful.
Lo and behold, gentleman gives hima call.
Ryan, you know, so impressed thathe followed up for seven years.
I'm finally ready to make a move.
And he, although when Ryan met
them, he had his wife, he was nowhis ex -wife because they had
(35:47):
split.
They both dealt with Ryan and he
ended up getting, I think it was a60 million and a $40 million
transaction from these clients hemet seven years ago.
And it was the client that wasimpressed with his ambition, his
drive, his hustle to help them.
And so that's just another
example.
of the follow -up and about
storytelling and how you can makeconnections with people and help
(36:09):
them.
So guys, that is episode number
six.
I really hope you enjoyed it.
Like I said, I will be doing aseries of these throughout the
year, two or three per episode.
Don't worry, guys.
I'm going to have hosts coming onas I did last year.
So that's not going to changewhatsoever.
I hope you found this valuable,helpful.
And looking forward to atremendous year ahead, guys.
(36:32):
And as I sign off, I wanted tothank you, my clients, my friends,
my listeners.
Don't forget to subscribe if you
haven't already to Old School, NewWorld, The Life of an
Entrepreneur.
Remember to like it so you can
continue to get notifications.
And if there's anything that you
need, reach out to us.
We're happy to help and talk to
you about anything that's relatedto the mortgage industry.
(36:54):
Guys, as I sign off, I want towish.
you, your family, your friends,the very best in 2025.
It is going to be an unbelievableyear for all of us.
Thank you so much, guys.
Talk to you again soon.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome tothe sixth episode of Old School,
New World, The Life of anEntrepreneur.
I'm your host, Mike Diaz.
I'm going to be flying solo on
this episode.
And it's going to be a bit
different this year with respectsto what we're going to be
delivering to all of you.
So this is going to be a series of
episodes talking about the 30steps of success.
Now, those are steps that I haveput together to help others in
(00:35):
terms of what I've been doing overthe last 31 years that has led to
my success.
So I'm pulling back the curtain.
I want to share these things withyou.
And I believe and have faith thatif you incorporate or implement.
Some of these things, not all ofthem perhaps, but some, you will
have a tremendous success in yourown business and it would lead to
(00:56):
a referral -based business becausepart of these steps is to help
create that referral -basedbusiness, not based on, depending
on realtors or partners, financialplanners, accountants, but your
clients and friends.
So before I dive into all that,
let me tell you who I am.
So let me reintroduce myself as
(01:16):
you will.
So I used to be a banker.
I spent seven years with TD andthen 10 years with Scotia.
Before leaving Scotiabank, I was asenior manager down at their
flagship at Scotiabaza lookingafter the retail team of 40.
And I've been brokering consultingnow for 14 years.
And recently, in October, startedmy own brokerage, DNA Lending
Group.
So I want to be able to share some
of this information with you thatI've learned over all these years
(01:40):
and allow you the opportunity touse some of them to your advantage
for how you want to create yourbusiness.
Now, I'm going to use stories tosort of tie in a little bit of
what we're going to be deliveringtoday.
And of course, there are 30 steps,but I'm not going to do all 30 in
one episode.
Of course, that's just madness.
I'm going to split it up betweentwo to three of those steps during
every episode that we air thattalks to you about what we're
(02:00):
going to be doing.
Today's episode, we're going to
cover three.
It's going to be CRM, the follow
-up.
and sell the benefits.
Those are three steps of the 30.
And I'm not putting them in order
of importance.
They're all super important.
So it's not that I start with one,it's more important than the
other.
Not at all.
But I do have a preference.
I am starting with the CRM because
(02:23):
I do believe that's the mostimportant.
So let me talk to you a little bitabout the story that ties into
this.
And I said this during my lead up
when we let you know that theepisode was coming out.
A little train that could.
choo choo so little train that
could is a great story that's beentalked about for you know over 100
years it actually first came outin 1902 and it's about a train
that's asked to go up this reallysteep mountain to deliver toys to
the other side of the mountain.
(02:45):
Now, of course, the big
locomotives, they didn't wantanything to do with it.
They thought they were too good,too important.
So they asked on the little trainif they could deliver those toys.
And the little train said, yes,I'll give it a try.
Every time the train would try, itwould say, I think I can.
I think I can.
And lo and behold, of course, the
train made it up over the hill.
It shows the example of hard work,
(03:06):
optimism.
and the relationships that it
takes to get over a big hill.
And how does this tie into what we
do as mortgage brokers or mortgageagents?
It has a lot to do with it.
It's hard work that we need to do.
Some people see the mostsuccessful people and where they
are at, but they forget thosesuccessful people, I am telling
you with a thousand percentcertainty, had a lot of failures,
(03:27):
struggles.
They had to learn along the way.
So any entrepreneur that'ssuccessful will share their
stories like I'm doing a littlebit today because it's a way of
paying it forward and helping youget to where you want in terms of
your business.
So let me dive in to talk a little
bit about the very first one, theCRM.
Now, I got to tell you, you know,when I left the banking business
(03:50):
and became a broker.
I was scared shitless, to be very
honest with you.
I didn't know what to expect.
I thought back then, 14 years ago,when the bank says no, that's when
you go see a broker.
And that's absolutely not the
case.
And one thing I learned from the
banking system, and I do thinkbanking system is important.
You know, for all you youngbankers out there, you know, even
(04:11):
seasoned bankers, one thing Iwould tell my younger self if I
was doing this again is not tostay in the corporate world that
long.
My son says Nathan wants to be a
mortgage broker, and his mom and Iboth agree.
I think it's going to be importantfor him to start in a corporate
role so you can get an idea of howit works.
Remember, the banks have been inthe business for over 200 years.
So they know what they're doing.
(04:33):
Now, I'm not speaking disparaging
about the banks and lenders.
But I believe that you have to be
heart -centered.
You have to be authentic.
And sometimes it's hard to do thatin the corporate world because
they want you to sort of fitwithin their box.
But you can learn from greatleaders that are in that corporate
world.
You can even learn from bad
leaders because you can say toyourself, I didn't really like how
(04:55):
I was treated.
I didn't like how they treated
others.
I'm definitely not going to
implement that as I grow and buildmy business and my career to help
and serve others.
So it's important to understand
this.
So I would tell my younger self,
hey, go there.
but I would definitely not stay 17
years, maybe two, three, five, inmy opinion, is the max because you
can learn a lot, like I said.
And a lot of things that I learned
from both TD and Scotia is theidea of having a CRM or... a
(05:18):
platform that allows you to keeptrack of what's happening with
your clients.
So CRMs, you know, shout out to
Blue Mortgage.
That's the one I've chosen to use.
I've been using it now for justunder a year.
I believe it has a lot of greatfeatures, you know, maybe more
than you need.
I use the ones that I feel are the
most important.
For me, the CRM and how I use it
(05:40):
is particularly for journaling.
It's not just about, you know, a
client deal.
It's about what's happening before
we reach out, during.
And just as important, after the
transaction closes.
And so how do you do that?
How do you make a client know thatyou actually care about them?
You journal about yourconversations.
You know, in my process, what I dothat's really led to success for
me is I'll have, if you have alook, and I'm happy if anybody
(06:01):
wants to reach out, you know,reach out anytime, happy to share
what I've done and actually haveyou see it.
My first journey starts in 2013,starting to put in notes.
And those notes and thatjournaling has evolved, whether
it's for that person that washelping originally or how I've
changed it, what I've added in andwhat maybe I didn't need to add
(06:21):
in.
Because, you know, when you're
dealing with thousands of clientsand friends and you want to make
sure, as long as you're leadingwith the heart, that it's
important for them to feel you,not only hear what you're saying,
then, you know, you want to beable to build trust and
credibility.
How do you build trust and
credibility?By acknowledging conversations
you've had with clients, you know,whether it's the birth of a child,
whether it's a birthday, whetherit's a tough time and they opened
(06:43):
up and they were vulnerable withyou during your conversation, you
know, you're making a note becausewhen you're going back and you're
talking to them again, and if yourefer back to that, they're going
to feel that.
Like Maya Angelou said, you know,
it's not what you do or what yousay, it's how you make them feel.
That's what is memorable.
You know, that's what's
unreasonable.
You know, to be able to make
(07:05):
someone feel your passion, yoursupport, your willingness to help
and serve.
If you can have someone feel that,
oh man, I can tell you there'll bea client for life.
And again, remember this series isabout helping you understand how
to create a referral -basedbusiness.
So in saying that, it's importantto also understand that this just
doesn't apply.
to mortgage business.
These steps apply to any salesindustry, whether you're in life
insurance, home and autoinsurance, retail sales, any kind
(07:26):
of sales driven employment orcareer.
If you can make a connection withyour clients and friends that
you're dealing with, thatconnection is going to be really,
really, really difficult to break.
Because, you know, in today's
world of digital, like right nowwe're here and talking to you
through the camera, I still havevalue in meeting people personally
if the opportunity presentsitself.
(07:48):
I'm a bit old school maybe thatway.
But, you know, those are thethings that we have to make sure
we're doing properly.
And again, so back to the CRM, how
do we do them?We journal about it to communicate
the things that we've said.
Because, listen, I've been in
(08:10):
business 31 years.
It's impossible, you know, unless
you have a photographic memory or,you know, a memory that's just
maybe genius -like.
You can't remember every single
conversation that you've had withevery single person you've been
helping and serving.
But to help you, to support you,
you can journal it.
And, you know, in today's world
with technology and for the youngpeople out there.
You know, AI will be able to dothat.
Now have AI to create emails foryou.
(08:33):
It can have AI to be your ownpersonal assistant.
So there's all kinds of differentthings that you can incorporate,
but to have it in place, CRM orjournaling creates this connection
with your client.
When you have the ability to make
that connection, you create trustand credibility because, you know,
trust and credibility can betaught.
You know, a lot of people in anysales business, oh, you know,
(08:53):
somebody, you know, they're notjust going to buy from me because
I'm selling the best product.
They're going to buy because they
trust you.
They're going to buy because they
like you.
And they're going to buy from you
because they see you.
And what I mean by see you, they
see you're genuine, you'reauthentic.
You're not one person one day andanother person another day.
And it's important to make sureauthenticity is apparent.
(09:15):
And how does authenticity come tothe forefront?
And everybody talks about it.
They throw it out all the time.
You know, be authentic, beauthentic.
Just find a way to just becomfortable with who you are and
be comfortable with what youbelieve in.
Know what your values andprinciples are.
And those things typically willlead to that idea of being
authentic.
There is a law, the law of
(09:36):
authenticity.
The greatest gift you can give
anyone is yourself.
When you are authentic, what ends
up happening is it magnetizes youto people.
So you're out there, you know,whether it's at a function,
whether it's just with friends andyou are, you know, being true to
yourself, that authenticity,somebody will look from the corner
and say, hey, who is that guy?Who is that girl?
(09:56):
I need to go talk to them becausethere's just something that's
drawing me to them.
That's that magnetism because, you
know, when you're authentic,there's energy that flows from
you.
So how have I been using the CRM
I'm implementing?So not only do we have my notes
that I deal with clients andfriends, you know, my team,
especially in today's world,sometimes you're working from home
(10:17):
and working in the office,depending on the hybrid models
that you have, you know, you'renot only wanting to journal and
write notes on the actualtransaction.
It's a way of communicating if youhave a dedicated underwriter, if
you have an associate to be ableto put notes into the system so
they understand, you know, whatthey're doing and what you're
needing them to do for you becauseyou've talked to the client and
you've looked after that way.
(10:38):
So it's another way how the CRM
can be super valuable.
You know, we've used it this way a
lot, but, you know, there'scampaigns that you can run or just
communication with clients,whether it's a beginning of the
year.
Hey, here's what's happening this
year or year in review.
Here's what happened last year.
And here's what we should expecthappening this year.
You can communicate that outautomation through CRM.
(10:58):
That helps a lot.
But the key here with the CRM is
that it really becomes thespringboard, really the only
springboard that you need tocreate a longevity of business.
Because, you know, a lot of thetime I believe, and it's served me
well, that we are the center ofwhat's happening.
Because, you know, without amortgage broker or agent providing
counsel.
advice, guidance, you know,
everyone else around.
Realtors, unfortunately, won't
have transactions to clients topurchase.
Accountants can't file taxesbecause people are making income.
(11:20):
Financial advisors can't continueto create wealth for clients
because real estate, when it comesto financial planning, is one of
the pillars to help springboard.
Because if you get into the
market, client comes to you andasks you, what's your opinion on
what we should do?then, you know, you can leverage
what you're starting.
There's two necessities in life,
guys.
There's food and shelter.
So that's why shelter is such animportant piece in Canadian
(11:40):
culture in terms of homeownership.
And once you're able to do that,work hard, pay down that mortgage,
take advantage of the prepaymentsthat are available.
And you're going to share those,the information you're going to
share with them.
Then, you know, they could be able
to leverage.
So you'll be able to make a
referral yourself to someone else.
(12:04):
I, you know, been very fortunate.
and how I've created my ownbusiness.
My business is 95 % from clientsand friends.
I have referral partners, peoplethat I deal with, talk to every
day, but it's not a reciprocalrelationship.
And that served me well, evenduring the toughest times, you
know, when people were, oh man,I'm slow, you know, real estate
(12:24):
agents weren't closing ontransactions because the world was
happening with interest rates.
That ability to continue to grow
your business, keep your businessgrowing and earning an income for
your family is paramount.
And then that way you disconnect
from being dependent on others'success.
And if you're depending on yourown success, that's important
because remember that hard workthat we have to put in, the little
train that could, you know, Ithink I can, I think I can.
(12:47):
So you absolutely can.
So one of the first steps that we
want to take advantage of in anysales business is the CRM, or as I
like to describe it, thejournaling of the interaction.
of what's happening, how we cancontinue to build on that.
So once you have the CRM you'recomfortable with and you're taking
advantage of, it still plugs intostep number two.
So step number one, of course, wasthe CRM.
(13:07):
Step number two is the follow -up.
Now, I love the follow -up and the
CRM plays into that because youcan either buy automation and I'll
explain how I've done my follow-up.
You put in a task into the CRM.
to follow up with clients.
You know, when I talk to agentsout there and people in any sales
business and they say, oh, youknow, I reached out to my client
(13:32):
and we had a really good initialconversation, but, you know, I
followed it up and they nevercalled me back.
And I think to myself, oh, that'sinteresting.
And one of the very firstquestions I have is, oh, tell me,
how many times did you follow up?Well, I followed it up, you know,
a whole two times.
And I think to myself, wow.
Two times, that's what youconsider following up.
(13:54):
I don't know.
You know, it's funny.
80 % of sales require five follow-up calls after the initial
meeting.
This is a number that is shocking
to me. 94 % of sale reps give upafter one follow -up.
You know, I just don't thinkthat's acceptable.
Here's a secret, pulling back thatcurtain.
In terms of when you're talking toclients in your initial
(14:16):
conversation, or even if it's noteven about a transaction, you're
just talking to them.
Get their permission.
If you obtain permission, becauseyou don't have the right to do boo
with anyone unless you have theirpermission.
So if you're talking to them, I'llgive you a little sort of example.
Ran to someone, talked about mybusiness because us entrepreneurs,
we love talking about ourbusiness.
I'll say something to the effectof, hey, Samantha, it was great
chatting with you.
You know, I would love your
(14:37):
permission to keep in touch withyou.
And guess what?Samantha?
We'll say, oh, yes, absolutely.
You have my permission.
Bingo.
They've given you permission.
Until they tell you to beat it,you're now allowed to follow up
and keep in touch with them.
Not only about trying to sell them
on something, but you may justwant to share information during
that conversation you had.
Back to the CRM, you're
(14:58):
journaling.
Oh, Samantha really enjoyed
traveling.
And she wanted to see these three
countries.
Guess what?
When you're following up.
You can say, hey, by the way,
Samantha, we were talking aboutBali.
I've been to Bali and this is ahotel I stayed at and it was super
amazing.
Have a look at it.
Boom.
You know, that continues then to
establish trust.
(15:18):
It shows that you actually
genuinely care.
Remember, the key to a lot of
this, keep on referring this, isheart -centered.
You have to want to help and servepeople, you know, genuinely.
You can't just, oh, I'm going togive them this travel tip because,
you know, just for because.
It has to be because you had a
(15:38):
good conversation, you connected,you felt like you connected with
them, and then sharing differentthings outside of what you
actually do.
Because remember, someone will
only buy from you.
I shouldn't say only, but majority
of the time will only buy from youif they like you and if they trust
you.
It doesn't matter if you're
propping up this thing that you'reselling, whether it's vacuums,
knives, mortgages, insurance, theyhave to connect with you.
(16:00):
So that's a really important piecenot to forget when you're going
through that.
So once they give you that
permission, bingo, bango, Bob'syour uncle, you can actually
continue to follow up until theytell you to beat it.
Now, I'll give you an example ofmy own personal story.
I follow up until, you know, itdoesn't seem at all possible, but
these I'm talking about, I don'twant to exaggerate.
I'll follow up, you know, up to 20times before I decide, okay, maybe
(16:24):
this is not that one I'm going tospend the time with.
But then what I do, and I've donethis now with my executive
associate, Melanie will follow up.
So then that way it frees up my
time, right?I can't continue to follow up, but
then she'll follow up by email andsomeone else other than you.
following up a lot of the timewe'll get them engaged you know a
lot of people think oh you know idon't want to lose control of my
(16:49):
client i'm not going to getsomeone else to follow up i got to
tell you guys perception mattersif you've made the attempt to
follow up and someone else issupporting you like an executive
associate clients will payattention to that you know it's
human behavior oh mike was callingme but now you know melody's
calling on mike's behalf maybe ishould get back so let me tell you
(17:11):
about a story i had a client Hadone of the best conversations I've
had in a while with them.
Felt, yeah, this is going to be a
client that I think I had successwith.
You know, we connected well and wetalked about a lot of different
things and I followed up.
So my follow -up process, if I
have an initial conversation witha client, depending on sort of
(17:32):
what stage they're at, we'llfollow up a week later, then a
week after that, a week afterthat.
So we continue to build thatprocess.
I was nine follow -ups in.
And this is probably about four or
five years ago.
So I was still doing a lot of my
own before Melanie came on boardin her role.
And I was at number nine.
And I thought to myself, man, you
know, I thought I had this clientand things were well.
Follow up number 10.
Here we go.
Let's see what happens.
He picked up.
(17:52):
Well, hey, there he is.
How are you?
You know, I've been able to get ahold of you.
How have you been keeping?And the first thing that he says,
hey, Mike, thanks so much forcontinuing to follow up.
I've been swamped with work.
I've been meaning to call you.
Every time you call, I go, ohyeah, I got to call Mike back.
And we had a really goodconversation, laughed it off.
And lo and behold, not only did Ihelp him with a purchase, we
refinanced his home to make thatpurchase.
(18:12):
And then he then in turn referredtwo of his friends.
So out of that 10 follow -upprocess, I was able to help and
serve him with two transactions.
And I was able to help and serve
his two friends who in turn, guesswhat they did?
They refer clients.
And that's the way the system
works to build a referral basedbusiness.
So this idea when I hear someonesay, Mike, you know, I followed up
two times or even three times.
I don't know.
I don't buy that.
(18:33):
Maybe you hesitate because don't
forget, you have to get permissionbecause I can understand if I met
you and I'm talking to you and younever got permission or never even
made the comment about, hey, I'mgoing to keep in touch with you.
What's your business card or anyof that?
Or maybe you took my contact.
And then you're just trying to get
a hold of me to sell me something.
I'm very likely not going to like
that, not going to feelcomfortable with it.
So I might say no, or I may notcall back ever.
(18:55):
So that's why getting permissionfrom the very beginning is key to
the follow -up process.
So when you're helping and serving
someone, it's not the transactionitself that's the most important.
It's how you're dealing and makingsomeone feel before.
So meaning when you're meetingthem, during.
helping and serving, going throughall the details, and then after.
So, you know, so many people I'vetalked to, clients, our friends
that have used brokers in thepast, and I know they've used a
broker because it's with, let'ssay, one of our monoline lenders.
(19:18):
One of the questions I ask, oh,you know, what happened with your
other broker?Why didn't you go back to them?
99 .9 % of the time, I've neverheard from Joe or Samantha or the
broker at all.
Big win for me because I'm helping
and serving them.
Big loss for the other broker.
Maybe they didn't have a processin place.
Maybe they're only focused on thetransaction.
And so they didn't spend the timefollowing up.
(19:40):
So I want to give you my exampleof my follow -up.
95 % of my business is referral-based.
Joe Smith refers over Hillary.
Hey, Hillary, how are you?
Thank you so much for reachingout.
We have a conversation.
Tell me a little bit about how I
can help and serve you.
I know so -and -so is kind enough
to put in touch, which means alot.
I'll be sure to thank them.
And then, of course.
(20:01):
I have a follow -up with thereferral source, meaning just a
thank you.
And then I'll look after them on
the other side with just a littlethank you card, things like that.
But nonetheless.
So helping the transaction, we go
through the details, theconversation.
And the conversation, guys, youneed to know when you're having
this conversation with them, it'snot about finding out all their
(20:23):
personal stuff.
Because they're calling you for an
immediate need.
They're calling you to counsel
them, to give them advice, and tohelp them understand this wild,
wonky world of mortgage financing.
Focus on that, you know, focus on
that conversation because I cantell you and I can promise you if
you focus on that conversation andyou're going to help them with
this immediate need as you gothrough back to the follow up and
(20:44):
I'll explain all this to you guys.
Once you start helping them there,
then other things open up.
You start hearing more about them.
You start to hear their painpoints, maybe why they're feeling
a certain way about one thing orthe other.
Maybe they've had a bad experiencein the past.
You know, so I had a client, forexample, recently said she went
through some fraudulent activitywith someone and she was very, you
(21:07):
know, wanted to make sure theprocess made sense and she was
concerned that, you know, who'sthis Melanie person following up?
Well, who's this Sean person?And I had to explain my, this is
my team.
You can trust them.
I trust them with my life.
And so that was one of her rocks,
those bags of rocks I talk aboutsometimes.
She was caring, rightfully so.
You have to make sure that they're
fully comfortable with who youare.
So once I'm talking to thatclient, I send them out an email.
In that email, I, of course, havemy team.
(21:29):
Sean will follow up within a weekas a friendly reminder if we don't
see things.
And of course, when I tell my
clients and friends or whoever I'mtalking to, with your permission,
I'll send you an email with NextSteps.
Yes, Mike, absolutely.
You have my permission.
Boom.
Permission granted.
And that's permission for alifetime.
until they tell you, stopfollowing up with me, leave me
alone.
And so Sean will follow up a week
(21:50):
later as a friendly reminder.
And typically within that week,
clients always send in therequested items needed.
And then Melanie will set upeither a Calendly call invite or a
Calendly Zoom invite.
Zoom is preferred for me because a
lot of clients can't make it in.
I still, especially for first
-time homebuyers folks, you shouldbe meeting first -time homebuyers
in person because they're nervous,they don't know.
They want to feel comfortableabout what they're doing and
(22:12):
getting themselves into.
So I would highly, highly, highly
recommend meet with first -timehomebuyers, at least minimum via
Zoom.
Can't shake hands and stuff via
Zoom.
I still feel it's a bit
impersonal, but that's just my twocents.
So Melanie will set that up.
We'll share our screen at DNA
Lending Group.
We refer to our partners because,
you know, sometimes we only expectreferrals in.
So I always ask, do you have arealtor you like and trust?
Sometimes we'll say, no, we don't.
(22:33):
No problem.
We have a trusted referral partnerteam and we make that referral,
you know, because it's not allabout what you take in.
It's what you give out.
You know, there's another law, the
law of receptivity.
It's better to give than to
receive, but you must be open toreceiving.
So I always love to give, youknow, I've created a system where,
you know, I have the ability torefer out to a lot of different
people in different industries.
(22:53):
And then I'm absolutely open to
receiving.
And some people struggle with
receiving.
They, oh, no, it's fine.
It's OK.
It's OK.
And that's just sort of reciprocalhow that happens.
So we review the numbers.
They didn't have one.
We refer one.
If they have one, we ask for their
realtor's information so we can bein touch with their realtor during
the process.
That makes it a lot more seamless.
Because remember, you want to trywhatever you can to make the
(23:15):
transaction unreasonable.
What I mean by unreasonable.
Go over and beyond anything theywould think, wow, that's just
wild.
They're doing this to help and
serve us.
So you want to make that process.
So introduce yourself to theirrealtor.
Now you have someone in yourdatabase that's a realtor, even
though you never referred anyoneto them, but they'll see your
skill set.
They'll see how much you care
about the clients.
(23:35):
They'll see how involved you are,
you and your team.
And that allows them to say, well,
you know, next time they'rethinking about someone and they're
thinking of a mortgage broker.
oh, you know, I had this really
positive experience.
They may, you know, not remember
exactly what happened, but I'lltell you, remember what's in here
and how you made them feel by, youknow, making sure that their
(23:58):
client, our client, as I like todescribe it, was well looked
after.
So once that happens and that
introduction is made and they finda home, I jump back into the
equation.
We go through all the details to
talk about the products.
And then...
We send it off, get it approved.
We'd like to complete a file
anywhere between two to threeweeks before closing, if at all
possible.
Something I've learned over 31
(24:18):
years, especially first -timehomebuyers, are super stressed.
You know, like, oh, my God, somemore, even though you've told
them.
You know, you've given them all
the peace of mind.
Yeah, you're fine.
Lenders are slow.
You know, they're just reviewing.
They're going to do the finalcheck.
You know, it's not uncommon forthem to take this long, which is
typical.
You know, anybody who's in our
business, you'll know what I'msaying.
Like these turnaround times arejust like, oh, nonetheless,
they're always anxious.
(24:39):
Like, oh, my goodness.
The minute you can close that fileand the last step is for them to
visit with their lawyer.
It's just load off.
You know, Mike and his team wereable to take care of this and, you
know.
Wow, we're three weeks out from
closing.
That's amazing.
So that's something that I thinkis really important in that whole
(25:00):
process.
And then what happens in the
continued follow -up?Everything gets closed.
Everything happens.
I follow up personally a week
after closing.
And I'll say, hey, so -and -so, I
want to make sure the experiencewas what you expected and that
you're happy with things.
I ask for a referral during that
phone call.
Hey, we would love the opportunity
to help and serve anyone you careabout.
Please put us in touch withsomeone via email that you think
(25:24):
we might be able to help andserve.
And lo and behold, surelythereafter, they're having dinner
or they're celebrating their newhome.
They have people over, friends.
Hey, this is a great home.
How did you do it?Your name comes up.
So that's part of that.
We're creating a referral -based
business.
And then the true follow -up that
I believe in that happens.
Melanie has taken this over for
me, the six -month follow -up.
Six -month follow -up typically is
(25:45):
just checking in.
Hey, how's the new home?
Are you implementing thestrategies that we talked about?
Here are some key ideas, thatreminder of what Mike chatted with
you about biweekly, accelerated,increase your payments.
If you've taken a variableproduct, keep your payment the
same.
If you're comfortable, pays off
the mortgage faster, things ofthat nature.
That's six months.
I pick up the phone at the two
-year mark, and then I pick up thephone again at the three -and -a
-half -year mark.
(26:06):
I pick up the phone again at the
six months prior to maturity.
Those are all personal calls done
by yours truly because I lovedoing it.
If you don't notice the excitementI have about this stuff or the
fact that I love talking, a thingthat I enjoy about our business is
connecting with people andchatting.
And I can count thousands of timesthis has happened.
Not so much at the two -yearfollow -up call.
Sometimes it does.
A lot of the time at the three and
(26:27):
a half year.
Hey, Mike, I was just thinking
about you.
Wow, that's wild that you're
calling me.
You know, so -and -so are
expecting a baby in six months.
We likely need to refinance or we
want to sell and buy.
And then I talk about things like,
hey, have you thought aboutkeeping your property as a rental?
Maybe that would work.
You know, you've put in a lot of
the soft costs into this property.
(26:49):
Maybe keep it.
We run numbers, boom, boom, boom,boom.
And we walk them through thataspect.
Now, the follow -ups, I follow upfour times myself on the two -year
or three and a half year.
And then I'll push it over to
Melanie to follow up via emailanother four or five times.
Typically within that stretch oftime, somebody will always get
back to us, even if it's just anemail.
The other thing that's important,how does the CRM tie into the
follow -up?Because I have all my notes in
(27:11):
there, right?So when I'm following up, I'm
reverting back.
Like if they said they just had a
child, child's name is there.
Oh, how is so -and -so?
Or I've sent them down an email.
And again.
creates trust and credibilitybecause you're genuinely caring
about that individual.
You're not caring about the
transaction.
You know, everybody focuses on the
transaction because everybodywants to, you know, get
compensated and things like that.
(27:32):
But, you know, I know as hard as
this may be, especially for newpeople, always make the results
the last thing.
You know, back to, again, a little
train that could, you know, theoptimism, the hard work, the
dedication.
I think I can.
I think I can.
That refers to effort, time,
activity equals your results.
You know, the little train that
could have got over that mountain,not because, you know, he was
better than anyone else.
In fact, the big locomotive said,
(27:52):
ah, no, that's too good for me.
I don't care about that.
It's about the desire, thediscipline, the activities, the
effort that you put behind to beable to climb that mountain, get
over the top and deliver what itis that needs to be delivered.
And to me, It's an unreasonableexperience that clients and
friends will have with you.
That's what we focus on.
That's what we believe isimportant because, you know,
there's so many different thingsout there.
There's thousands upon thousandsof brokers and agents out there.
(28:13):
So you want to be unreasonablewhen it comes to what you're doing
for your clients and friends.
So, so far.
We have CRM as step number one.
We have the follow -up as the
second step.
The last one I'm going to talk
about today, sell the benefits.
So guys, you know, when we're
helping and serving clients and inour business, and again, I'm just
going to relate to the mortgageindustry, it's really easy because
we really only have two productsto sell.
(28:34):
Fixed product or a variableproduct.
Yes, there's different providers.
You know, obviously you have
HELOCs, but it all comes in oneand the same in terms of what
you're selling.
If we're doing a really good job
with our clients and friends,we're bringing up life insurance,
creditor insurance to protecttheir family.
It's part of the advice and thecounsel, right?
We're not just order takers.
If you are an order taker, think
about how you get away from beingan order taker and how you bring
yourself to being an advisor,someone that counsels people,
(28:57):
someone that provides trustedadvice.
When we are selling the benefits,I have one word for you guys,
value.
You know, value is so important
when it comes to what we do,because as it relates to
mortgages, clients and friends andconsumers will choose a low rate
over a product that makes moresense because there is an absence
of value in what you'redelivering.
(29:17):
So what do they do?They pivot on just a lower rate.
So value.
It's so important.
Value in who you are, value in theproduct that you're proposing
after hearing what's important tothem, showing them based on the
conversations that you had withthem and that they shared with
you, that this would be what youwould recommend if you could make
a recommendation.
You know, you can make
(29:37):
suggestions, adding value.
And in our world, you know, with
everything that's going on withinterest rates, get away.
from talking about interest rates.
Because if you get trapped in
talking about interest rates, wow,man, it's going to be a long haul.
You have to refocus and refocusingyour attention to value over price
will eliminate the conversationaround the rate.
(29:59):
Yes, rates are important.
Nobody wants to pay 30, 40 basis
points higher than the guy nextdoor.
And nobody ever should.
Now, if there's a product that has
tremendous amount of value andit's 0 .05 or 0 .1 higher than
this lower rate, then it's up tous to provide the value.
So I'll give you an example.
If you have a client putting down
(30:20):
30%, 40 % and in your conversationwith them, they tell you, my
family and I would love to have acottage in the next three to five
years.
And we're thinking about how we're
going to do that.
From one of our non -bank lenders,
they had a really low ratevariable at today's world, 4 .7%.
But yet there's another productthat has a variable rate at 4 .9%.
(30:41):
It's a 20 basis points difference.
But that 4 .9 has a secure line of
credit feature.
How do you provide value?
You go through the benefits ofthat product.
Sell the benefits.
Hey, Joe Smith.
You and your wife, never say wife,always ask for names.
I should have said that at thebeginning.
So it's Claudia.
Hey, Joe, you and Claudia
mentioned this was important toyou.
It's always good to relate becauseremember, there's only one thing
(31:04):
people actually own.
It's their name.
So just be mindful when you'retalking to clients and friends
about that.
Always try to use their name.
I think it's just a great touch.
So, hey, you said this was
important to you.
You know, we're having a
conversation about you wanting tobuy a cottage and you didn't know
(31:29):
how that was going to happen.
Well, here.
If you have a secure line ofcredit, and as you pay down your
mortgage, that line of creditbecomes more available.
Because remember, they're puttingdown 30%, 40%.
Even if they only put down 20%,that line of credit will increase
(31:51):
over time, saving them from havingto refinance to pull out equity.
If that's something they said,hey, Mike, three years from now,
we might want to refinance.
Do what's in their best interest.
Explain what's in their bestinterest.
Because refinancing, you know,penalty, you might have to do
other costs.
There's things you have to
evaluate.
That's where you're providing
value.
(32:12):
That's where the conversation from
4 .7 falls.
And then they're focused on their
product, the value providedbecause of what you understood of
what they wanted three to fiveyears from now.
How does this tie in to the CRM,into journaling?
(32:33):
Because if you're having aconversation, when you're doing
your two -year follow -up, You'regoing to look at your notes that
you've done.
And I always date stamp it.
It's all very organized.
Again, reach out anytime.
I'm happy to meet with you inperson or over Zoom to show you
how I've structured journalingwith clients.
(32:55):
Because again, it's all aboutpulling back the curtain.
During that two -year follow -up,I read my notes.
Oh, Joe and Claudia said theywanted to buy a cottage.
At the time, they put less than 20% down.
Whatever the case is, it allows meto have another conversation about
something that they said wasimportant to them.
two years ago, three and a halfyears ago, or whenever that
timeframe was.
And by me approaching it and
(33:16):
talking to them.
And remember, when I'm making my
follow -ups, it just so happenedthat he mentioned this.
I'm going to bring it up to him,but I'm not calling to sell
anything.
That's the important thing to
remember.
Going back to step two, follow
-up.
You're not following up to sell.
You're actually following up tofollow up.
(33:38):
How you doing?How's life treating you?
How's work going?You said your boss is an asshole.
Has he gotten any better?whatever it is.
But if there are notes, becauseyou did a good job taking your
notes and journaling, and there isan opportunity to say, hey, are
you still thinking about this?You can have a really good,
fruitful conversation.
So it's important to convey a lot
of this value through stories.
You know, whether you're a new
person or an experienced person,you know, you would have had
(33:59):
experiences with clients, sharestories.
And even if it's a sad story, ifyou're talking about insurance, so
there's... creditor insurance,there's life insurance to protect
their family.
I've had several stories of
families that got a home, saidthey were going to get insurance.
Unfortunately, six months later,something happened to the spouse
and the remaining spouse that wasstill alive had to sell their home
because they couldn't afford it.
And so when you hear stories like
(34:20):
that, it's difficult to hear themand know that maybe I could have
done a little more.
Maybe I could have shared this
story.
And you're not breaking anybody's
confidentiality.
You're telling them a story about
a real -life example of somethingthat feels important for them to
share.
So you're adding value through
storytelling.
Just like I started today's
(34:42):
episode talking about the littletrain that could, it's to help
create this understanding of IThink I Can, a tale that was over
100 years old that was told tokids to help them understand
determination, optimism.
Story talks about relationships,
you know, how sometimes we thinkwe're too good for something, but
we're not.
So telling stories to help people
understand the big picture is oneof the things that are really
(35:02):
important.
I almost forgot.
I'll give you an example of thefollow up.
A lot of you will know RyanSerhant, you know, super
successful real estate agent inNew York and does a lot of
different things out on social.
He had a story about his follow
-up when he first started in thebusiness.
He had no shame.
He had just started.
He was in a coffee shop and he raninto a couple, got their
(35:23):
information, got their permission.
He kept in touch with them and
followed up for seven years, neverhearing from them in that seven
-year period.
Just kept on following up.
He's a grinder.
He's a hustler.
He's had drive.
He wanted to be successful.
Lo and behold, gentleman gives hima call.
Ryan, you know, so impressed thathe followed up for seven years.
I'm finally ready to make a move.
And he, although when Ryan met
them, he had his wife, he was nowhis ex -wife because they had
(35:47):
split.
They both dealt with Ryan and he
ended up getting, I think it was a60 million and a $40 million
transaction from these clients hemet seven years ago.
And it was the client that wasimpressed with his ambition, his
drive, his hustle to help them.
And so that's just another
example.
of the follow -up and about
storytelling and how you can makeconnections with people and help
(36:09):
them.
So guys, that is episode number
six.
I really hope you enjoyed it.
Like I said, I will be doing aseries of these throughout the
year, two or three per episode.
Don't worry, guys.
I'm going to have hosts coming onas I did last year.
So that's not going to changewhatsoever.
I hope you found this valuable,helpful.
And looking forward to atremendous year ahead, guys.
(36:32):
And as I sign off, I wanted tothank you, my clients, my friends,
my listeners.
Don't forget to subscribe if you
haven't already to Old School, NewWorld, The Life of an
Entrepreneur.
Remember to like it so you can
continue to get notifications.
And if there's anything that you
need, reach out to us.
We're happy to help and talk to
you about anything that's relatedto the mortgage industry.
(36:54):
Guys, as I sign off, I want towish.
you, your family, your friends,the very best in 2025.
It is going to be an unbelievableyear for all of us.
Thank you so much, guys.
Talk to you again soon.
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