February 25, 2025 • 43 mins
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▶️ Watch this episode on YouTube
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EPISODE DESCRIPTION
In this episode, Mike was asked to be a guest on "Billion Dollar Podcast", a weekly entrepreneurial-focused interview show hosted by Joe White and Cain Daniel, founders of the Real Estate and Mortgage Institute of Canada (REMIC). Each week, they bring in new and veteran entrepreneurs who share their insights and experiences, offering expert opinions on making it big in any industry.
They discuss:
→ Why Mike went from banker to broker, why those coming into the industry should start at a bank, and what to know about the banker to broker transition.
→ Mike's new brokerage, his approach to training agents, and what new agents should look for in a brokerage.
→ Skills agents need for success, consistency in serving clients, and using tech & AI.
→ Mike's life purpose, battling addiction, mental health, and why Mike launched this podcast.
Billion Dollar Podcast Website: www.billiondollarpodcast.com
Billion Dollar Podcast YouTube: @BillionDollarPodcast
Billion Dollar Podcast Instagram: @billiondollar_podcast
REMIC Website: www.remic.ca
Cain Daniel's LinkedIn: @CainDaniel
Joe White's LinkedIn: @JoeWhite
***
CONNECT WITH THE SHOW
🎙️ Old School, New World Podcast: Old School, New World: The Life of An Entrepreneur
📺 Old School, New World YouTube: @OldSchoolNewWorld
📸 Old School, New World Instagram: @OldSchoolNewWorld
***
CONNECT WITH MIKE
📸 Mike Dias' Instagram: @migueldias26
👥 Mike Dias' Facebook: @Mike.Dias.9231
***
CONNECT WITH DNA LENDING GROUP
🔗 DNA Lending Group Website: www.dnalendinggroup.com
📸 DNA Lending Group Instagram: @DNALendingGroup
📋 DNA Lending Group LinkedIn: @DNALendingGroup
👥 DNA Lending Group Facebook: @DNALendingGroup
⏰ DNA Lending Group TikTok: @DNALendingGroup
***
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, friends.
(00:00):
On episode number seven of Old
School New World, The Life of anEntrepreneur, we flipped the
script.
I was asked to be a guest on the
Billion Dollar Podcast with Cainand Joe.
We talk about going from banker tobroker, different things that are
required to pay attention to ifyou're looking to make the move.
And not only do we talk aboutthat, we talk about mental health
and what it takes to be consistentand pay attention to how you're
(00:21):
feeling because your performancealso is a reflection of that.
They graciously allowed us to airthat on our channel.
So be sure to subscribe.
Thanks so much, guys.
Appreciate you.
the Billion Dollar Podcast.
Today's guest is Mike Diaz, thefounder and principal broker of
(00:46):
DNA Lending Group, with over 13years of experience as a mortgage
broker.
Mike, it's great to have you with
us.
Thanks very much for coming.
Thank you so much, Joe and Kane.
It's a pleasure to be here.
I'm honored and look forward toour conversation.
Yeah, absolutely.
Just a little bit more about Mike.
After nearly two decades with theTD Bank and Scotiabank, Mike
transitioned into the mortgagebrokerage space to offer Canadians
(01:06):
better, more personalized options.
He's passionate about heart
-centered leadership, financialplanning, and ensuring clients
have the tools and knowledge tomake informed decisions.
Outside of work, Mike enjoysspending time with his son,
staying active, and running hisown podcast, Old School New World,
which we're definitely going totalk about.
Mike, welcome.
It's great to have you with us.
(01:27):
Thank you so much.
So my first question is in going
through your bio, you were withthe major banks for 17 years.
And, you know, we always like toask our guests what motivated them
to get into mortgage brokeringbecause nobody wakes up as a five
or 10 year old and says, you knowwhat, mortgage brokering, that's
the ticket for me.
(01:48):
So with that in mind, what did
motivate you to leave the securityof that environment, that banking
environment?to join Mortgage Alliance as a
broker and now start your ownbrokerage?
Yeah, it's an excellent question.
You know, it's almost like I was
pushed a bit, you know, and lifehappens.
I was super loyal and committed toeach of those institutions, TD and
Scotia.
But it got to a point at the end
(02:09):
where it was just wasn't feelingright.
I was growing as a person, youknow, the corporate environment.
They maybe allow you to growprofessionally, but when you're
growing personally in a corporateworld.
They expect you to be rigid andtight and not be sort of who you
want to be, an individual,authentic.
And rightfully so.
Banks have been around for over
200 years.
Their reputation is by far the
thing they hold the highest inimportance.
(02:31):
And so, you know, it was a mutualsort of parting of the ways.
And it's funny because two yearsbefore I left, I was already
getting pushed into, hey, whatdoes a broker do?
Because remember, the banks.
Back then, it's grown quite a bit
of awareness.
When I was a banker, you only go
to a broker and the bank says no,right?
(02:51):
That was the idea.
Or if you have something weird, go
to a broker.
Don't come to us, please.
And I didn't know anything aboutit.
I met a gentleman who's well-respected in the industry.
He's a real estate agent, ChrisKellos.
And he's also was a good guyidentifying talent.
He slowly tried to bring me in,introduced me to certain people
and brought me to a Scotiabank, awine and cheese broker event.
And so I stepped in there twoyears prior to making the move.
(03:12):
Then when it was aligned, I sortof had an idea.
OK, let me go talk to this person.
was And I ended up doing it.
And to be honest, you know, theold saying, oh, the only thing I
wish I had done it sooner.
It doesn't matter.
That will always hold true,whether it's for me 13 years ago,
for someone today.
or someone 10 years from now.
Because, you know, when I got intothe business, people were saying,
(03:33):
hey, you know, you came at thewrong time.
If you had come in 2008 or 2009,it would have been amazing.
And here I am coming in in 2011,2012, and done, you know,
phenomenal business.
I helped and serve thousands of
people.
And the same thing will apply to
new people coming in today.
And they say, oh, you know, I wish
I'd been sooner.
No, you don't.
You just be happy with what you'vedone.
One of the things that we'venoticed over the years, and you
(03:56):
know, by the way, it's greathaving you in the broker channel
for this long.
You finally made the move and it's
right.
Never too late.
Like you said, what is youropinion on the qualifications of
mortgage reps at the bank level incomparison to what you do in
mortgage brokers in this channel?You know, I started with the bank
at 18, right?So I was a teller and I worked my
way up.
But if somebody was getting in
there and becoming a personalbanking officer or financial
(04:16):
advisor first at 21, 22, I thinkit's important.
My son who's 15 says he wants tobe a broker.
Oh, amazing.
His mom and I agree that he's
going to start at the bank,whether it's 18, 19, because you
need to learn the corporatestructure.
In my view, some people arepossible to jump into
entrepreneurship right away.
But you need to find structure,
(04:36):
especially the young people oftoday.
You can learn from bad leaders andgood leaders.
Figure out what you don't want tobe, and you can figure out what
you want to be.
Just learn the aspect of
connecting with people, hearingpeople.
You know, when I joined thisbusiness, the broker channel, I
shut my mouth, opened my ears.
I might have been a 17 -year
banker, but I wasn't silly enoughto think that, oh, I know it all
(04:59):
already.
Let me go do all this stuff.
So same thing when you're startingin the banking world.
Just open your ears.
You know, the best way to learn is
by osmosis.
oh, Pick up certain pieces because
you'll only learn more and more asyou get into this business about
what's available.
You know, the plethora of
products, like there's a lot, youknow, and so you'll learn that,
but learn the people skills, youknow, learn what drives the bus.
(05:20):
And you can learn this at the bankfor sure.
Learn to put people first, not thedollar signs first.
Right.
Because you're not going to make
any money at the bank.
They're going to give you a title.
And this is so pretty.
And look at the shiny little
plaque you have here.
But always allow yourself to do
what's in the best interest ofyour clients that are in front of
(05:41):
you at the bank.
And then everything else will come
after that.
A lot of people only put the
dollar sign first.
I need to do this to make that.
You know, I have a philosophy.
If you only chase money, money
will always outrun you.
Because you're not going to make
any because you will never catchit.
I think that's the big difference.
And then when you join this side,
it's important to align yourselfwith people that you like, that
are aligned with your values andbeliefs.
(06:03):
And if I could say one thing thatI wish I'd done differently, I was
a lone wolf for 13 years.
I had a small team here and there,
people that I helped andsupported.
I wish I'd created more of a teamenvironment sooner, what I'm doing
now.
right, with my new brokerage.
So that's one of the things.
So if somebody's joining, join
something that's going to feelright.
You know, don't let the head makethe decision, make your heart make
(06:24):
the decision.
head From your experience being at
the bank and now being in thebroker channel, do you think it's
better for consumers to usebrokers or go to the bank and only
use brokers when they're turneddown?
What is your thought on that?You know, know, the answer to
this, Joe, and you're alwaysbetter served with a broker.
And it's not about the plethora ofproducts.
Yes, that's pretty and nice.
(06:45):
It's about the relationship.
Because if you're dealing with abanker, good luck if they're going
to be there two years, threeyears, five years, 10 years.
Because banks and those mobilereps or maybe the personal banking
officer, the financial advisor,they want to move up.
If they have ambition, they're notgoing to stay in their desk for a
long period of time.
So the value someone brings to the
consumer on our side.
is substantial, right?
The relationship piece, lookingafter them, listening.
(07:05):
But remember, people that are inour business, like the new people
coming in, they really have towant to do that for themselves.
That's the biggest difference too,right?
Like they might be doing it forthe bank because the bank tells
them when they join us, they haveto do it for themselves because
it's the best thing to do fortheir clients and friends, right?
(07:25):
So I think that's a bigdifferentiator between the two.
One's long -term, but you have tohave a process to create that long
-term.
And that's sustainability.
You can't be in and out, like pushone deal in, push one deal out.
That's how you're building yourpersonal brand may not be
sustainable.
So that's, I think, is a big
(07:46):
difference.
Is that something, Mike, that you
found right away?We see a lot of bankers now coming
through our course and coming intothe broker side.
For those coming into the industryor thinking about coming in the
industry from the banking side.
What can they expect?
Maybe what surprised you?What challenges did you have?
How did you overcome them?Just for some more context for
those that are considering.
Yeah.
So let me answer that onespecifically.
So I feel like I'm a bit of aunicorn, but I can tell you from
(08:10):
others, they have to expect whenthey're jumping in, you may not
make money for three, six, ninemonths.
And it's not because you're nottalented.
I started in May, closed my firstdeal in July.
It's very unusual.
It's a referral, but you have a
deal, you come in a couple monthsin.
you might have a deal closing 60or 90 days out.
So this is why that window.
So I was nervous.
I was going through a divorce atthe time.
(08:31):
I just built a new home.
I had a lot of things on the go.
So I was surprised for me how thetransition went.
It was scary at first, like Imentioned earlier.
But once I got rolling, confidenceis something that you build on.
I was a confident person.
I am a confident person.
But when life has got you a littlebit turned around.
you start to wonder, right?So that's one of the things for
sure is be prepared not to makemoney.
(08:53):
People think, oh yeah, I'm goingto be a broker.
I'm going to make tons of money.
Yes, you will.
It's a very fulfilling role thatwe do, but you can't be coming out
with your eyes closed and saying,oh yeah, you have to understand
that aspect of it.
The other thing that surprised me
because I didn't know a lot aboutit was back to some of the
products is the B side or theprivate.
I didn't have a lot of exposure.
(09:15):
I don't know how many today people
have exposure to.
understanding the B and the C side
of our business.
So that's something that I was
dropped into and started to learnabout.
So that was a bit surprisingbecause I didn't really know,
right?What you don't know, you just
don't know.
So that would be probably another
piece.
And expect to be scared and
fearful.
You've got to be prepared to be
comfortable with beinguncomfortable if you're going to
(09:36):
make the move.
When you're uncomfortable, growth
takes place.
And that includes personal,
professional, anything you need todo for yourself.
In the bank, the bank makes youfeel super comfortable and safe,
right?And then you get trapped, you
become content.
Oh, this is great.
And then you want to make a move,all these other things start to
happen.
So just be prepared for those.
Those would be the three thingsthat I think people making the
move need to be prepared for andthink about.
(09:56):
You said a lot there, a lot tounpack.
Something you said, I think willresonate well with those coming in
from any industry, not justbanking, is you talked about
creating almost like a communityor culture.
within your brokerage, but theneven within the industry.
I think lesser known is howwonderful this industry is,
especially now, I think more sothan ever in terms of community,
in terms of people giving back andsharing ideas.
(10:18):
So new agents or those just comingin.
that are looking for a brokerage,maybe interviewing with a
brokerage, how do they make thatdetermination?
What should they be looking for,for a brokerage that fits with
them?In addition to the culture and
community, what kind of things doyou think are important or should
be important for those coming in?Yeah, I think they need to really
evaluate the values that they havefor themselves as they carry on
through the brokers they'rejoining as the fit with respects
(10:39):
to what they expect to get fromsomeone.
Because it's one thing to say tosomeone coming in, hey, I can do
this for you.
but it's what the brokerage can do
for them, right?So they need to have maybe a list
of three things, four things.
Hey, I need this, this, this.
That requires you to bevulnerable.
It might require, hey, I'm lackingin confidence.
You have training material thathelps confidence.
I bring that up as a point.
(11:00):
I can talk about it later.
I have training of liveconversations, my own
conversations with my clients andfriends.
I have 200 playbooks that will gofrom a gauntlet of First -time
homebuyers, repeat buyers,reviewing affordability numbers,
all of these things.
Because I think in our business,
there's a lack of live training,right?
In terms of hearing.
And when I say learning by
osmosis, in today's world, it'shard.
Nobody comes into an officeanymore, right?
When I joined, I joined anotherbroker.
Before Mortgason, I was there fora year and a half.
(11:22):
It was an office environment wherethey had cubicles.
Everybody heard everything.
I picked up a lot on that.
So I think that's something to bemindful of as well.
You know, one of the other thingsthat you mentioned was about that
lack of knowledge andunderstanding of like the B side
and products like that.
Do you think that bank employees
like bank mortgage reps shouldknow more about the industry so
(11:42):
that they could give maybe betteradvice to their clients as in,
more about the industry so thatthey could give maybe better
advice to their clients as in, youknow, our narrow suite of
products, it's not really perfectfor you.
There's other options out there.
And let me point you over to.
one of those options or one of thebrokers.
(12:03):
Do you think that the banks wouldbetter serve their clients by
having that knowledge?I don't think the bank is excited
about doing that because they knowthat it's not a benefit for their
people to know.
don't think the bank is excited
about doing that because they knowthat it's not a benefit for their
people to know.
But I can tell you, I think
(12:23):
bankers make the best brokers.
That's my opinion, just because
they've been in the corporateenvironment.
But the best investment you canmake is in yourself.
Spend the $400, go to Remick, getthe license just so you can
understand.
what a broker needs to be
licensed.
It doesn't mean you're going to
make the move.
You're allowed to write the
course.
You're just, you wrote the course.
You invested in yourself.
(12:44):
And then, you know, that'll open
the door, right, to them deciding,hey, wait a minute, I wrote this
course or I did some more researchmyself, not because the bank told
me to, because the bank won't tellyou to.
And they would be doing themselvesa favor, number one.
And then in turn, They're going tobe helping their clients and their
friends with other alternatives.
Listen, I know when I left
Scotiabank, Oriana, I think it wasthe brokers, they were
(13:04):
investigating doing deals that thebank said no to transfer, like to
be their person.
Like, hey, if you have declined
deals that have no option, I thinkRBC has something similar or did
anyway.
So there is that there, but it's
not talked about, I don't think,all that much because it's taboo.
You don't want to be talking aboutit.
But nonetheless, I think it'simportant, yes, for them to
educate themselves.
For the sole reason, for
themselves.
But remember I said, we can do
everything we can.
We can beat them over the head.
(13:25):
We can scream from themountaintops.
We can, you know, make everyattempt to help them.
But if they do not want to helpthemselves, whether it's learning,
to And they it's learning, gettingto a different place, or anything
like that, you know, it's like anold saying, you can bring your
horse to water, but you can'tforce it to drink, right?
But I think there is a tremendousamount of value to just expand
your knowledge, even if you don'tapply it right away.
(13:45):
a just expand your knowledge, evenif you don't apply it right away.
See what the world's about a bitin that sense.
You mentioned about the trainingthat you do, mentioned about the
training that you do, the livetraining, which is fantastic.
That sounds exactly like whatpeople need.
How have you found that the peoplethat you have working for you have
responded to that?Thank you so much for asking that.
Because again, I'm going to belive.
(14:06):
My brokerage October 15th.
So I'll be very honest.
I don't have the agents yet.
Like I have everything I need
around me.
I have my executive associate,
Melanie, who handles my emails,calendars.
And I know Melanie now six years.
She was on MatLeaf two years ago.
I brought her back May of thisyear.
I hired Sean, my associate.
And I say associate, but my
underwriter.
I like to use the right words
anyway.
I brought him a year before
Melanie went on MatLeaf, notbecause I knew she was going to go
(14:32):
on MatLeaf and have twins, but tosupport her.
So Sean's now become theassociate.
Melanie looks after all the stuffI hate doing.
I have a marketing coordinator.
I have this training.
But what I don't have, and I knewthis was going to be the heaviest
lifting, was agent.
honest.
I I believe and have faith when Istart to get people coming on
board.
There's three parts.
Recruiting, hiring, onboarding.
Recruiting is, hey, tell me about
who you are, what's going on.
Hiring is, here's our culture.
This is going to be what you'rejumping into.
(14:53):
Oh, they want to.
It's onboarding.
That's the heaviest liftingbecause, man, oh, man, it's tough
for a new brokerage, an infancybrokerage.
You understand how that all works.
TD Bank, I start with zero.
That means I have to build up toget full comp.
Scotia, I have a pretty goodrelationship with.
I think I'm going to be okay for ayear.
So I'm betting on myself, bettingon DNA Lending Group, but I think
(15:14):
people will love this training.
Like why read some information
when you can hear liveexperiences?
If I was a new agent and somebodysaid to me, hey man, you can
listen to me, talk to a variety ofdifferent, and it's all
confidential.
There's no disclosure of personal
information.
It's just a conversation like
we're having, minus if you didn'tsay my last thing, for example, it
would just be Mike, Kane, and Joe.
There's a million Mike, Kane and
Joes, but we're not talking aboutmy social insurance number.
(15:36):
None of that is happening in theconversation.
Zero.
I would think as a new agent,
that's maybe a biased response,but I would love it.
was a I think that Kane wouldagree that our students like that
type of interaction.
And, you know, students love case
studies, things of that nature.
And I think this is a great
extension on that type oftraining.
You take it from a case study,theoretical to a live interaction.
(15:57):
Joe, what I've done in preparationof creating these playbooks.
is I've asked people to, or willbe asking people to listen, but
not only listen, but what tolisten for.
Like, I mean, during aconversation, you can hear
enthusiasm, humor, compassion,empathy.
You hear it all.
Like, I mean, when I'm an
excitable person, you know, justlike laughter, enthusiasm is
contagious.
You know, there's a lot of things
built in.
Like some of these conversations
are very heartfelt.
And these are some people I've
(16:18):
known for a while.
The people I had just met.
And the idea of conversations fornew people, new agents, sometimes
they think they have to ask abouttheir whole family.
No, no. When I get a new client,I'll give you a quick synopsis.
Hey, Joe Smith was kind enough torefer you.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you for the
(16:38):
opportunity to help and serve you.
Tell me a little bit about what
you're doing.
You tell me a little bit about
what you need.
Hey, Mike, I'm looking to buy a
house, blah, blah, blah.
Then I just go dive right in.
Okay, here's the thing.
Talk about the market, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then...
Get them to buy in.
I get their permission.
I'll say things like, with yourpermission, I'll send you an
(16:59):
email, and then you know where thebuy -ins are.
You know where the pain pointsare.
You know what things arehappening.
And lo and behold, 30 minuteslater, I'm sending out an email.
This is what I need.
The requested item's required.
And they're sending it, and we'retaking the next.
And then the relationship builds.
We start talking about kids.
We start talking about this.
(17:19):
But the initial conversation
should always be, let's get to thenitty -gritty.
Slow, small talk, banter.
but then get into it.
Relationships are not built on thefirst call.
What's built on the first call iswhat the client needs.
Every playbook is almost identicalin that sense, but obviously
different interactions.
built So Mike, I think this is so
(17:40):
important for new agents, maybeespecially if you're new, like you
said, completely new to financialservices, completely new to sales,
completely new to marketing, thosetypes of things, those soft
skills, that training is superimportant.
Even before they get there though,and you're just about doing this
now.
What types of things are you going
to look for from new agents?What are those markers that you're
going to look at and say, okay,I'm going to hire this person.
I know I want that.
I'm just curious to know because I
(18:01):
think there's a misconceptionabout people that enter in this
industry that they do have to havesome finance background or do have
to have sales background.
I'm wondering what you're looking
for.
I'll tell you what they need.
that do have to have salesbackground.
I'm wondering what you're lookingfor.
I'll tell you what they need.
It's the only thing they need
because everything else can betaught.
They either will understand creditand debt or they don't.
I have pieces that... can easilysay like GDS, TDS, if they look
(18:21):
puzzled, okay, credit card debt,what's that?
Okay, sorry, I'm not the guy foryou, or maybe you should, because
it's either you understand ourbusiness, the fundamental, the
application numbers,affordability.
If you can't grasp that, and thenyou're not expected to know right
away, but if you ask me a questionand you've come back to me one
time, two times, okay, if you comeback to me the third or fourth or
(18:42):
fifth time for the same exactthing, it's because you don't
understand.
And I will have to have a
difficult conversation,unfortunately.
Hey, so -and -so, Joe, it mightnot be for you.
It's just you're not capturing it.
So that's number one.
I think the top, top is I get asense for them if they understand
it.
Because remember, our business was
never taught in school.
(19:02):
So financial matters, mortgages is
close to the best.
You only learn it from your
family, typically.
A lot of people, their first bank
account, of course, will be wheretheir parents banked.
That's how it worked, right?And so it's just important to
understand as much as you can, dothey understand credit?
Credits and debits.
That's what they need because the
conversation piece, the peoplepieces, that can be taught.
Those are soft skills.
Trust and credibility, believe it
or not, is soft skills.
(19:23):
How do you establish trust and
credibility?Through your process.
Calling them when you tell themyou are.
You know, you're following up whenyou're going to follow up and all
of those small things.
I equate trust and credibility to,
deposits and withdrawals in a bankaccount.
The more deposits you have, themore you can afford to withdraw.
We're not perfect.
We're going to make mistakes.
But if you're not making thosedeposits, following up when you
are, doing the things you sayyou're going to do, doing the
thing that's in their bestinterest, and then, oh, lender
(19:46):
made a mistake or something,there's a withdrawal, but it
doesn't overdraw your account.
So you're still building on that.
To answer your question, Kane, Iwill know right away if they
understand the numbers piece ofour business.
Like someone that has some basic,someone that has some basic,
understanding of financialliteracy or even their ability to
grasp that and communicate iteffectively.
It also sounds like what I'mpicking up from what you said is
(20:07):
maybe discipline is important, theability to be organized and do
what you say.
So I think all of those play in
there as well.
Yeah.
Another piece maybe, I've beencalled the CRM guru.
I wouldn't go that far, but I'mgrateful for somebody
acknowledging.
I've been doing this since 2014,
where I have journals.
I mean, journals upon journals,
like of client journeys.
(20:28):
And my very first one was Nikki.
2014, she referred me, her friend,then her daughter.
And I write all about it.
If people are shy about
journaling, whether it's forthemselves personally, great, but
for their clients, so they knowwhat's going on.
Do you want to explain, Mike, whatyou mean by journaling?
Maybe for those that aren't sureexactly if the context is.
(20:49):
Of course, of course.
sure So let's say I meet a client
and we have a conversation in myCRM, describe it as a task or my
notes section.
I put the date.
So today is October 3rd, 2024.
I describe our conversation, how
it went, what it went.
Next time I talk to them, let's
say a week later, it's now Octoberthe 10th.
And I don't need to put the yearbecause it's a continuous journal
(21:10):
from top to bottom.
And those things will just
describes the whole event.
So Joe talked about this in the
course he was talking about.
Let the deal talk about itself.
You know, if you ever get like acompliance issue, you shouldn't
have to explain the deal.
You should allow your deal to talk
for itself.
I just want to add something in
there.
You know, we see a lot of students
coming through our course, a lotof different personalities.
(21:31):
Some people struggle with thatpart of it, making those notes.
I think it's super important.
I think it's important for your
business reasons and also, youknow, to make sure you're
compliant as well.
And like Joe was mentioning your
deal.
But what I want to say is that
there's not really an excuseanymore because with this
emergence of technology.
Joe and I both have a product
called the Plot Note, which youcan attach to your phone.
(21:51):
It'll record your entireconversation.
It'll summarize your conversation,make those notes for you.
There's also technology you canattach to any one of your virtual
meetings that can do the same typeof thing.
So it takes away a lot of the workor almost all the work for things
like that.
Those tasks that you maybe don't
want to do.
(22:12):
There's no excuse anymore not to
be doing that.
be doing that.
You know, God bless you, man.
What a great comment because I'm
old school.
I'm an habitual person.
You have to be habitual to besuccessful.
And I know there's technology now.
I can't wait.
Maybe I got a young person who'san IT savvy because IT and I are
not friends.
So I struggle.
I hate it.
I cringe.
But this idea of what you justsaid, this thing you plug into
(22:35):
your phone, imagine being in yourcar and you get a call and you
have this thing you just describedand then you have this
conversation and then you don'thave to take any notes because it
gets downloaded into, oh, it'smusic to my ears.
It's available now, available now,Mike.
You can get it.
I know, I know.
Listen, You can get it.
I know, I know.
Listen, I'm doing so many thingsat the moment.
(22:56):
I got so many irons in the fire.
But yes, I know.
I know there's so much out there.
The three of us will go out on a
lunch on me and you can show meall that stuff for sure.
I You know, the major problem withit is that you have to charge this
stuff.
And like the chargers are
ridiculous.
I mean, they're unique to the
device.
I had, you know, like a padlock
that you can open with athumbprint.
okay i can't find the charger forit so you know what am i gonna do
(23:21):
i gotta go now and search thecompany and find a replacement
charger and the anxiety thatbrings up joe is killer that's why
i try to stay in my lane but iwould love to be more in tune with
what you're describing yes yes forsure yeah and kane likes to say
that he's constantly curious andthat's an excuse as to why he's
always on his phone you have to becurious especially about
technology because otherwise youknow if you're going to end up
anxiety that brings up joe iskiller that's why i try to stay in
(23:43):
my lane but i would love to bemore in tune with what you're
describing yes yes for sure andkane likes to say that he's
constantly curious and that's anexcuse as to why he's always on
his phone have to be curiousespecially about technology
because otherwise you know ifyou're going to end up you know,
still using Microsoft Excel onlyfor your CRM when there's these
robust systems that can do a tonof stuff and you're, you know,
just stuck in your lane, right?your lane, right?
(24:04):
Yeah, and I will say this.
So I have a great friend.
Shout out to Roy Cocholo.
He's the broker owner of Your
Mortgage Your Way.
I love Roy.
It's his birthday today.
Happy birthday, Roy.
And so he referred me over tosomeone that built on Google
Suites or G Suites.
So I'm going to take that next
step for my brokerage too, right?Because as I bring on people,
there's going to be opportunity torevamp some of my backend because
anybody starting a business, ifyour operations is not fine
-tuned, you're going to strugglequite a bit.
And I know this already, and I'mdoing all the work on that end to
(24:27):
do that.
So to your point, although I'm a
dinosaur, I'm moving a little bitout of the old age.
It is the new world.
You know, my podcast, Old School
New World, going to old schoolprincipal's way of doing things,
but it's a new world.
that we have to adapt to.
So yeah, have to adapt to.
So yeah, maybe tell us a bit about
(24:47):
the podcast.
Have you started it?
Have you filmed any episodes?Give us some info about the
podcast.
So it's something that, So it's
something that, you know, listen,podcasting is a long game.
I didn't start it to make money.
I started it because I wanted to
help young people understanddifferent topics, whether it's
wellness, financial literacy, youknow, anything to do with what
they were looking to achieve.
I do have three episodes that have
already been aired.
My mostly recent one, you guys
will know Michael Beckett.
So Michael Beckett is a gem of a
man.
I've known Michael for 13 years,
founder of Mortgage Alliance.
And he was gracious enough to be
my third guest.
Him and I had just a great
conversation.
And I've always considered Michael
a mentor.
is But at the end of last year,
meaning December 2023, I came outand asked him to be my mentor.
(25:08):
And lo and behold, he was kindenough to say yes.
And the same thing with Roy.
So I have two mentors.
And I think mentorship.
is so important.
I'm 47, so I'm not like a youngguy, but it's never too late to
start.
And so Roy also, I asked him at
the end of last year because Ihave a great deal of respect for
him as well and what he's done forhimself personally and
professionally.
And they both said yes.
(25:29):
So I meet with them once a monthas a sort of, hey, what's going
on?Things like that.
Because leadership, you need tolearn to be the best leader you
can be.
And so you need mentorship.
Sorry, back to the podcast.
So the episode I had with Michael
was fantastic.
And I'm pivoting a bit.
So I'm redesigning it a bit.
I know how there's different ways
of doing it.
But I really did my purpose for it
(25:50):
is to help others.
My purpose in life, I've
discovered, is to help and serveas many people as I possibly can.
And I won't get into a lot ofdetail.
But, you know, three and a halfyears ago, my life changed
forever.
I was in a coma for 17 days.
And the first year and a half wasthe most difficult time in my
life.
Last year has been the most
incredible year of my life.
And it's the best space I've lived
in my whole entire life.
And the amount of blessings that
(26:10):
fall from the sky, and they're notdivine, small things.
I'm very blessed and grateful.
So, you know, things like that
will come out more.
And my therapist is writing a
book.
She's 99 .9 % agreed to be the
ghostwriter.
My life is pretty dynamic,
gentlemen, pretty wild.
I mean, it sounds really
interesting.
mean, it sounds really
interesting.
Obviously, there's a story there
and perspective has maybe changed.
(26:31):
It sounds like after something
happened, perspective changed alittle bit.
Is that what we're getting?we're getting?
Yeah, what happens is soincredible.
There's something called post-traumatic growth.
So there's a study that's beingdone in the US, has been for a few
years, and I came across it byaccident or maybe not by accident,
where it says when you either haveemotional trauma, physical trauma,
or any kind of, if you're carryingbags of rocks around and you can't
(26:53):
let those bags go, guess what'sgoing to happen?
Those rocks turn radioactive andlife's going to be really tough.
And so something like thathappens, you either regress, you
stay frozen, or you accelerateforward in growth.
And the idea, and my therapist andI are going to talk about this in
the book a bit, if you werealready prior to this experience,
you were already attempting togrow, whether it's professionally,
personally, whatever it is, andthis trauma happens, it's not
(27:13):
going to be easy.
Like I said, first year and a half
is the most difficult.
When you turn that corner and
you're already in the action priorto the incident or a situation
growing, that acceleration ofgrowth, and that's what post
-traumatic growth looks at.
But the reason they're having a
hard time identifying itspecifically, because they're
trying to help therapists,psychiatrists with this
information, it can only begathered from the people that knew
(27:34):
the person best, right?Close friends, family.
Have you noticed a difference inthem?
What has been happening to them?Helping us understand.
what they were doing prior ordoing after.
So that kind of thing is part ofit.
And the other thing I'll ask forsome perspective, I have an
addictive personality and Michaeland I talked slightly about this
on our last episode, but I was anaddict and that label would always
be with me.
And my drug of choice was cocaine,
(27:54):
but it wasn't an everyday thing,but it was part of my life for a
long while.
And there's an itch that happens
when you're an addict.
It's like a circle.
You're in the baseline.
If you're doing whatever drug it
is, you go above the line, there'sa world, there's a space that's
real.
What happens, you come down, you
go below the base, you're there,ugly world below the base.
You come up, then an itch on theshoulder.
(28:15):
Hey man, start to party.
And then it's rinse and repeat.
And that's the struggle addicts gothrough in this cycle that they
live in.
After this incident for me, when I
woke up, I guess a year and a halfwas the most difficult.
And I had doctors calling me.
Do you feel depressed, suicidal?
Like it was, I had a epiduralhematoma.
So swelling of the brain, had totake the scalp off the thing and
(28:36):
it's really dramatic.
I almost died.
But even that incident was ablessing.
So doctors were calling me and I'mthinking to myself, the I'm
thinking to myself, no, I'm notlike that.
What's going on?And then finally, I was feeling
like I was walking throughmolasses.
So imagine wearing boots andsocks, boots comes off, then the
sock, you put the sock back on,then the boot, and it's over and
over again.
So I finally went to talk to one
(28:58):
of my dearest friends.
And I said, Jesse, you know, I'm
thinking I'm going to see myfamily doctor because this last
year, doctors have been callingme, following up, asking me if I'm
depressed or whatever.
Maybe I should go talk to my
family doctor about medicationbecause maybe that's what this guy
needs.
And she goes, I don't know how I
feel about that.
You know, and everybody has this
(29:19):
stigma about mental health andwhat we should do about it and
what we shouldn't.
Everyone struggles with it.
And Jesse, in the best way sheknows how, Mike, man.
You said, you know, rip lines ofcocaine and didn't give a shit.
And now you're worried abouttaking medication?
I go, ah, okay, fair, good point.
So I go talk to the doctor and we
(29:41):
went on a program.
And I say program, the medication.
And it's only started kicking inand working well.
Finally, in December of 2022, Isaid, oh, finally, I'm feeling a
little bit like I did.
Because the thing I wanted to feel
better again, feel like I wasbefore, but not with the
artificial reasoning of dealingthe way I was feeling.
And then lo and behold, fastforward to April, 2023.
My doctor and I had a plan to getoff the medication.
Being a Portuguese guy andstubborn like hell, he said, okay,
(30:02):
Mike, wean off this.
Okay, doctor, no problem.
Stop taking it as soon as I gothome from the visit.
Holy, three days later, I thoughtI was ready to like throw up.
So I went off the weaning and I'vebeen off it now and I feel great.
What I learned from that is thatif I ever find myself in a dark
place or somewhere where I'mstruggling and it's lasting a long
time, maybe I need to go see mydoctor.
(30:25):
you know, my family.
I don't need the artificial stuff.
You know, I've been cocaine soberthree and a half years, super
proud of it.
That's never going to be a part of
my life.
It probably didn't have to be.
But now I know if I feel weird, orif I feel something's going on,
then I'll go talk to my familydoctor because medication is not
necessarily antidepressants or anykind of medication to be taken
lifetime.
Some people need it.
And that's because they need tobalance the chemicals in the
(30:48):
brain.
And that's okay.
But I use it for an eight -monthperiod.
And I feel great.
The only drug I'm on now is a drug
of life.
So it's awesome.
You know, and your point aboutmental health is so well made.
It is something that used to havemore of a stigma.
I hope that as time goes by, thatstigma is stripped down and left
by the wayside.
You were absolutely right.
I think we all struggle with it atone point or another.
So congratulations on that.
That is a really... heartfelt and
(31:09):
inspiring story thank you thanksfor opening up a little bit yeah i
think that's really important forjust the reason that you said and
you know normalizing this a littlebit it doesn't have to be such a
stigma you know we all havestories we all have problems right
sometimes as joe mentioned so ithink it's really cool that you
share that you know one thing i'llthank my parents for my mom you
know god love her still around sheloves to talk okay and my dad's a
(31:30):
little more quiet and reserved icame from a family of cleaners
they had a cleaning business youthanks for up a little bit i think
that's really important for justthe reason that you said and you
know normalizing this a little bitit doesn't have to be such a
stigma you know we all havestories we all have problems right
sometimes as joe mentioned so ithink it's really cool that you
share that you know know that youknow one thing i'll thank my
(31:52):
parents for my mom you know godlove her still around she loves to
talk okay and my dad's a littlemore quiet and reserved i came
from a family of cleaners they hada cleaning business The reason I
got into banking was because of mymom.
My brother and I used to go withthem to clean, right?
And all kinds of differentbranches my dad had contracts for.
And there was a branch manager atTD Bank, Peter Miller.
My mom used to go into his office,oh, Mike, if you ever became a
(32:16):
branch manager, I would buy you achair.
I'm like, oh.
Okay, I'm what, 10, 11, 12.
I don't know.
whatever and then it ended up
happening that way it was quitefunny but they always made me know
that it took me to speak yourtruth so what's happened to you in
your past doesn't define who youare what's happened in your past
and what you do with it is defineswho you are right and so i'm glad
(32:36):
to be the torch bearer of talkingabout because god knows my life
has not been perfect you know someof my friends after the most
recent things and my man you'relike a cat you have nine lives but
It's like 12, like you're likemore than a cat.
I know.
But I'm now in the most, like I
said, the best space I've lived.
(32:56):
I think a really important piece
of what you're saying here, thinka really important piece of what
you're saying here, at least whatI'm taking from it is, and we talk
a little bit about this in some ofour post -licensing course, is the
importance of doing someintrospection and really figuring
out before you even do yourbusiness planning is figuring out
why do you want to do this?Why are you getting in this
(33:20):
industry?What is your personal?
What is your why?I mean, there's a lot of talk
about that now.
I think it's super important to go
through that and really thinkabout it and feel like you
mentioned helping people.
I think that's a popular one in
this industry.
People also miss some of that,
right?There's a lot of reasons why we
talk to a lot of brokers and a lotof them have similar passion to
help people.
And they get that good feeling
(33:40):
when they do a deal and they, youknow, maybe it's a family, maybe
they help them out of something orhelp them.
buy their home.
And there's that really amazing
feeling that you can't quantifyuntil you do it.
So I think that's missed often inthis industry.
Thank you.
you.
You know, I'll say too, Kane, ontop of the helping is the serving.
We provide a service.
You know, the helping, yes, is
important to, but it's like arestaurateur who's in the
hospitality industry.
They want to make that experience
for the person sitting down.
And unreasonable hospitality is
another great book I've read.
It talks about this service
lifestyle.
service being a purpose and it's
not so much about what we help theperson with is how we serve them
and you know what we do andremember that servicing is not
only during it's always after theserving piece comes after so how
do you make it come after by againback to the beginning we were
talking about the process thefollow -up because you genuinely
want to serve When I call a weekafter closing six months, two
years, well, six month Melanie isthankfully taking over for me.
(34:00):
And I'll do my personal call attwo year, three and a half, six
months prior to maturity.
The two year call or even the six
month follow up is just to checkin, say, hi, you know, what's
going on?Is the home still treating you
really well?Whatever the case is, whatever my
journaling notes had.
Hey, we talked about, you know,
Hunter was sick.
So I had a client, for example,
the one today had a follow upquestion for him and about the
(34:23):
lender was asking.
Reasonable explanation.
Why is your year -to -date offtrack?
Call the client.
His son was not well.
He had to take two weeks off.
Boom.
That's going to be in my notes.
Because when I follow up next
time, and there will be a nexttime, because until clients tell
me to beat it, I'm never going togo away.
And I say this to them, and that'spart of building trust and
credibility in relationships.
I tell them straight out, hey,
man, I'm always going to keep intouch with you until you tell me
to beat it.
There's always a good chuckle, a
(34:44):
laugh about it.
They love it, I'm sure.
I love it because I just loved it.
So that servicing piece is not
during, it's after.
I mean, I think that's...
Such a good lesson, especially forthose that maybe haven't realized
that yet, or maybe that are new tothe industry.
You know, Joe and I talk aboutthat a lot with different service
providers in our own lives.
We have a life insurance agent
that we both work with.
And, you know, he contacts us on
(35:05):
our birthday, contacts usrandomly.
Even if I don't answer the phone,he leaves a voicemail.
I know he's thinking about me.
And, you know, you can bet when I
think about life insurance, I'mgoing right to him as opposed to
doing a deal with him.
And then five years later, I
forgot his name, right?You know, if you find yourself
sitting at home.
in the car, going for a walk, and
somebody you haven't talked to orseen in a long time pops into your
head, just a thought of them.
You know what I believe that is?
(35:27):
All you have to do, send them atext.
Hey, man, I hope you're doingwell.
Thinking about you.
Whatever it is, whatever that
thought triggered you, it is,whatever that thought triggered
you, it's a reason.
There's a reasoning behind it.
And that could apply to yourclients.
Maybe you haven't talked to aclient in a long time.
Oh, this client popped into myhead.
A lot of people maybe will justdismiss that.
(35:48):
Just maybe send if you don't havethe processes, do something
because there's a reason why thatpopped into your head.
And either they need you or youjust need a hi or just need to
hear from someone.
Even if it's just like I said,
hey, how are you?And, you know, hope you're well.
And that can open the gate,perhaps, to them offering and
(36:10):
opening up to you about something.
Do you think technology might
change the way that you operate alittle bit or the way the role?
will become for mortgage agentsand brokers.
Hopefully it doesn't take away anyof that personalization.
We can use the technology to domore of that, but interested to
hear what you think.
to hear what you think.
That's funny.
So Roy and I were having a
conversation about this the otherday.
So he likes the AI concept of howwe're going to apply it in our
(36:32):
business and the robo calling withyour own voice that's available, I
think at some level, you know, toreach out to a client with your
voice being AI.
To me, it takes away the humanity
piece, you know, because a voicenever sounds like your voice
exactly.
And people will see that, but
that's almost desensitizingsociety.
I'm not there yet.
I'm not saying it doesn't have a
place.
I'm sure my son, Nathan, who's 15,
when he's 25 or 30, there'll becommon practice, you know, having
(36:56):
a son this age and what they dowith TikTok, Instagram, instant
gratification.
This is a whole new, you know.
But I'm concerned it desensitizeswhat I believe is important, is
the humanity piece.
Yeah, and you know what?
I definitely agree with that.
The whole concept of trying to
reach out to somebody with yourown voice or even an avatar that
looks exactly like you, I thinkthat there's a creep factor there,
(37:16):
and it's disingenuous.
I wouldn't mind if I knew what I
was talking to was an AI.
But I don't want it to be like in
Kane's voice or my kid's voice orsomebody who's real.
I want to know that it's an AI.
And yeah, I'm talking to this and
it's giving me a greatinteraction.
But yeah, I'm not going to do arobocall with an AI generated
voice of mine.
Right.
I just, I can't get myself to dothat.
But here's the thing, right?A lot of the young people today,
(37:36):
they might think that's cool orwho knows how they're thinking.
There definitely is a cool factor.
And I think you can combine what
you guys are saying into, so ifyou're doing a robo call, right
away in the call, you say, hey,this is the robo cane.
I want you to know that I'm notreal.
If you want to talk to the realcane, you can do that anytime.
This is pretty cool, right?Let's have a chat.
That's what I mean about beingdisingenuous, This is pretty cool,
(37:57):
right?Let's have a chat.
That's what I mean about beingdisingenuous, where you're trying
to have it imitate your voice orbe you and try to trick somebody
into thinking that I'm dealingwith you.
I think that's... creepy.
But I think what you just said,
Cain, there is an innovative wayto take that and use it.
And then that's cool.
It's almost funny.
I'm RoboCain.
It'd be funny, I'm RoboCain.
It'd be funny, right?Just to finish off that thought,
in my opinion, anytime you'reengaging with any AI that isn't
human, I think it should alwaysclarify what it is.
(38:19):
when it's engaging with a human sothat it can make a decision how it
wants to talk to it.
They might choose the AI when they
want to talk about stuff that is,for example, very personal and
they don't want a human to know,or maybe it's very emotional for
them and they can find somesecurity in talking to a machine.
There's that element as well that,you know, I've read a couple of
things that they're already seeingthat with therapy and some other
(38:41):
stuff.
So there's interesting bits there
anyway.
is, Yeah.
And I was just going to last pointto add to that in terms of, you
know, voice messages, theserobocalls I've incorporated in the
last like four or five months,voice notes.
Like I'll do a voice message.
And then I'll follow the voice
note on the text because peopledon't listen to voice messages
anymore.
So this robo text, for example,
saying what you said, Cain,because I like that idea as well.
(39:01):
Hey, this is, you know, robo Cain.
Want to speak to Cain?
Give us a call.
But we just want to say hi or
follow up.
It's a two year follow up,
whatever the case may be.
But the texting aspect, because
people, man, you know, they're ontheir phone.
Yeah.
year Comes in and that's easier
than, oh, I got a voice message.
(39:24):
Like, you know, who wants to
listen to that?know, who wants to listen to that?
Especially like my generation, I'm38.
My generation and younger,especially with text, this is why
everyone's going to WhatsApp anddoing text.
It works, right?People get better response rate.
I think there's a lot to be saidfor that.
For sure.
We're closing in on the hour.
(39:46):
closing in on the hour.
It's the best hour I've ever
spent.
the best hour I've ever spent.
Yeah, my friend.
my friend.
It's the same here.
Time flies when you're having fun,
right?And this has been a wonderful
conversation.
Mike, we thank you so much for
being so candid.
From our hearts, you're well
-known in the industry as aphenomenally nice guy and honest.
(40:08):
And we wish you all the successwith DNA Lending.
And we'll hopefully have you backon so you can tell us about your
travels going through starting upwith DNA and hiring new people.
And we'd love to touch base withyou again, maybe down the road and
see how things have gone.
And by the time our listeners get
this, by the time our listenersget this, you'll probably already
be up and running.
So where can the listeners find
you?Do you have a website?
Do you have a handle?I have a website, handle?
(40:29):
I have a website, dnalendinggroup.com.
You can reach me at my phonenumber directly.
I'm always on my phone, 416 -357-4003.
Or of course, email at mike atdnalendinggroup .com.
And before we sign off, guys, Ilove you very much.
Absolute honor to be on yourpodcast.
I will, with your permission.
follow up with you guys and have
you be guests on my podcast.
Would love to.
love to.
Yeah, love to.
So I have your permission.
love to.
So I have your permission.
So I will make sure I set that up.
And I appreciate you guys a greatdeal.
(40:51):
Mike, you're fantastic.
It's been a lot of fun and look
forward to do it again.
Looking forward to being on yours.
And yeah, it'll be a lot of fun.
Thanks, Mike.
Hello, friends.
(00:00):
On episode number seven of Old
School New World, The Life of anEntrepreneur, we flipped the
script.
I was asked to be a guest on the
Billion Dollar Podcast with Cainand Joe.
We talk about going from banker tobroker, different things that are
required to pay attention to ifyou're looking to make the move.
And not only do we talk aboutthat, we talk about mental health
and what it takes to be consistentand pay attention to how you're
(00:21):
feeling because your performancealso is a reflection of that.
They graciously allowed us to airthat on our channel.
So be sure to subscribe.
Thanks so much, guys.
Appreciate you.
the Billion Dollar Podcast.
Today's guest is Mike Diaz, thefounder and principal broker of
(00:46):
DNA Lending Group, with over 13years of experience as a mortgage
broker.
Mike, it's great to have you with
us.
Thanks very much for coming.
Thank you so much, Joe and Kane.
It's a pleasure to be here.
I'm honored and look forward toour conversation.
Yeah, absolutely.
Just a little bit more about Mike.
After nearly two decades with theTD Bank and Scotiabank, Mike
transitioned into the mortgagebrokerage space to offer Canadians
(01:06):
better, more personalized options.
He's passionate about heart
-centered leadership, financialplanning, and ensuring clients
have the tools and knowledge tomake informed decisions.
Outside of work, Mike enjoysspending time with his son,
staying active, and running hisown podcast, Old School New World,
which we're definitely going totalk about.
Mike, welcome.
It's great to have you with us.
(01:27):
Thank you so much.
So my first question is in going
through your bio, you were withthe major banks for 17 years.
And, you know, we always like toask our guests what motivated them
to get into mortgage brokeringbecause nobody wakes up as a five
or 10 year old and says, you knowwhat, mortgage brokering, that's
the ticket for me.
(01:48):
So with that in mind, what did
motivate you to leave the securityof that environment, that banking
environment?to join Mortgage Alliance as a
broker and now start your ownbrokerage?
Yeah, it's an excellent question.
You know, it's almost like I was
pushed a bit, you know, and lifehappens.
I was super loyal and committed toeach of those institutions, TD and
Scotia.
But it got to a point at the end
(02:09):
where it was just wasn't feelingright.
I was growing as a person, youknow, the corporate environment.
They maybe allow you to growprofessionally, but when you're
growing personally in a corporateworld.
They expect you to be rigid andtight and not be sort of who you
want to be, an individual,authentic.
And rightfully so.
Banks have been around for over
200 years.
Their reputation is by far the
thing they hold the highest inimportance.
(02:31):
And so, you know, it was a mutualsort of parting of the ways.
And it's funny because two yearsbefore I left, I was already
getting pushed into, hey, whatdoes a broker do?
Because remember, the banks.
Back then, it's grown quite a bit
of awareness.
When I was a banker, you only go
to a broker and the bank says no,right?
(02:51):
That was the idea.
Or if you have something weird, go
to a broker.
Don't come to us, please.
And I didn't know anything aboutit.
I met a gentleman who's well-respected in the industry.
He's a real estate agent, ChrisKellos.
And he's also was a good guyidentifying talent.
He slowly tried to bring me in,introduced me to certain people
and brought me to a Scotiabank, awine and cheese broker event.
And so I stepped in there twoyears prior to making the move.
(03:12):
Then when it was aligned, I sortof had an idea.
OK, let me go talk to this person.
was And I ended up doing it.
And to be honest, you know, theold saying, oh, the only thing I
wish I had done it sooner.
It doesn't matter.
That will always hold true,whether it's for me 13 years ago,
for someone today.
or someone 10 years from now.
Because, you know, when I got intothe business, people were saying,
(03:33):
hey, you know, you came at thewrong time.
If you had come in 2008 or 2009,it would have been amazing.
And here I am coming in in 2011,2012, and done, you know,
phenomenal business.
I helped and serve thousands of
people.
And the same thing will apply to
new people coming in today.
And they say, oh, you know, I wish
I'd been sooner.
No, you don't.
You just be happy with what you'vedone.
One of the things that we'venoticed over the years, and you
(03:56):
know, by the way, it's greathaving you in the broker channel
for this long.
You finally made the move and it's
right.
Never too late.
Like you said, what is youropinion on the qualifications of
mortgage reps at the bank level incomparison to what you do in
mortgage brokers in this channel?You know, I started with the bank
at 18, right?So I was a teller and I worked my
way up.
But if somebody was getting in
there and becoming a personalbanking officer or financial
(04:16):
advisor first at 21, 22, I thinkit's important.
My son who's 15 says he wants tobe a broker.
Oh, amazing.
His mom and I agree that he's
going to start at the bank,whether it's 18, 19, because you
need to learn the corporatestructure.
In my view, some people arepossible to jump into
entrepreneurship right away.
But you need to find structure,
(04:36):
especially the young people oftoday.
You can learn from bad leaders andgood leaders.
Figure out what you don't want tobe, and you can figure out what
you want to be.
Just learn the aspect of
connecting with people, hearingpeople.
You know, when I joined thisbusiness, the broker channel, I
shut my mouth, opened my ears.
I might have been a 17 -year
banker, but I wasn't silly enoughto think that, oh, I know it all
(04:59):
already.
Let me go do all this stuff.
So same thing when you're startingin the banking world.
Just open your ears.
You know, the best way to learn is
by osmosis.
oh, Pick up certain pieces because
you'll only learn more and more asyou get into this business about
what's available.
You know, the plethora of
products, like there's a lot, youknow, and so you'll learn that,
but learn the people skills, youknow, learn what drives the bus.
(05:20):
And you can learn this at the bankfor sure.
Learn to put people first, not thedollar signs first.
Right.
Because you're not going to make
any money at the bank.
They're going to give you a title.
And this is so pretty.
And look at the shiny little
plaque you have here.
But always allow yourself to do
what's in the best interest ofyour clients that are in front of
(05:41):
you at the bank.
And then everything else will come
after that.
A lot of people only put the
dollar sign first.
I need to do this to make that.
You know, I have a philosophy.
If you only chase money, money
will always outrun you.
Because you're not going to make
any because you will never catchit.
I think that's the big difference.
And then when you join this side,
it's important to align yourselfwith people that you like, that
are aligned with your values andbeliefs.
(06:03):
And if I could say one thing thatI wish I'd done differently, I was
a lone wolf for 13 years.
I had a small team here and there,
people that I helped andsupported.
I wish I'd created more of a teamenvironment sooner, what I'm doing
now.
right, with my new brokerage.
So that's one of the things.
So if somebody's joining, join
something that's going to feelright.
You know, don't let the head makethe decision, make your heart make
(06:24):
the decision.
head From your experience being at
the bank and now being in thebroker channel, do you think it's
better for consumers to usebrokers or go to the bank and only
use brokers when they're turneddown?
What is your thought on that?You know, know, the answer to
this, Joe, and you're alwaysbetter served with a broker.
And it's not about the plethora ofproducts.
Yes, that's pretty and nice.
(06:45):
It's about the relationship.
Because if you're dealing with abanker, good luck if they're going
to be there two years, threeyears, five years, 10 years.
Because banks and those mobilereps or maybe the personal banking
officer, the financial advisor,they want to move up.
If they have ambition, they're notgoing to stay in their desk for a
long period of time.
So the value someone brings to the
consumer on our side.
is substantial, right?
The relationship piece, lookingafter them, listening.
(07:05):
But remember, people that are inour business, like the new people
coming in, they really have towant to do that for themselves.
That's the biggest difference too,right?
Like they might be doing it forthe bank because the bank tells
them when they join us, they haveto do it for themselves because
it's the best thing to do fortheir clients and friends, right?
(07:25):
So I think that's a bigdifferentiator between the two.
One's long -term, but you have tohave a process to create that long
-term.
And that's sustainability.
You can't be in and out, like pushone deal in, push one deal out.
That's how you're building yourpersonal brand may not be
sustainable.
So that's, I think, is a big
(07:46):
difference.
Is that something, Mike, that you
found right away?We see a lot of bankers now coming
through our course and coming intothe broker side.
For those coming into the industryor thinking about coming in the
industry from the banking side.
What can they expect?
Maybe what surprised you?What challenges did you have?
How did you overcome them?Just for some more context for
those that are considering.
Yeah.
So let me answer that onespecifically.
So I feel like I'm a bit of aunicorn, but I can tell you from
(08:10):
others, they have to expect whenthey're jumping in, you may not
make money for three, six, ninemonths.
And it's not because you're nottalented.
I started in May, closed my firstdeal in July.
It's very unusual.
It's a referral, but you have a
deal, you come in a couple monthsin.
you might have a deal closing 60or 90 days out.
So this is why that window.
So I was nervous.
I was going through a divorce atthe time.
(08:31):
I just built a new home.
I had a lot of things on the go.
So I was surprised for me how thetransition went.
It was scary at first, like Imentioned earlier.
But once I got rolling, confidenceis something that you build on.
I was a confident person.
I am a confident person.
But when life has got you a littlebit turned around.
you start to wonder, right?So that's one of the things for
sure is be prepared not to makemoney.
(08:53):
People think, oh yeah, I'm goingto be a broker.
I'm going to make tons of money.
Yes, you will.
It's a very fulfilling role thatwe do, but you can't be coming out
with your eyes closed and saying,oh yeah, you have to understand
that aspect of it.
The other thing that surprised me
because I didn't know a lot aboutit was back to some of the
products is the B side or theprivate.
I didn't have a lot of exposure.
(09:15):
I don't know how many today people
have exposure to.
understanding the B and the C side
of our business.
So that's something that I was
dropped into and started to learnabout.
So that was a bit surprisingbecause I didn't really know,
right?What you don't know, you just
don't know.
So that would be probably another
piece.
And expect to be scared and
fearful.
You've got to be prepared to be
comfortable with beinguncomfortable if you're going to
(09:36):
make the move.
When you're uncomfortable, growth
takes place.
And that includes personal,
professional, anything you need todo for yourself.
In the bank, the bank makes youfeel super comfortable and safe,
right?And then you get trapped, you
become content.
Oh, this is great.
And then you want to make a move,all these other things start to
happen.
So just be prepared for those.
Those would be the three thingsthat I think people making the
move need to be prepared for andthink about.
(09:56):
You said a lot there, a lot tounpack.
Something you said, I think willresonate well with those coming in
from any industry, not justbanking, is you talked about
creating almost like a communityor culture.
within your brokerage, but theneven within the industry.
I think lesser known is howwonderful this industry is,
especially now, I think more sothan ever in terms of community,
in terms of people giving back andsharing ideas.
(10:18):
So new agents or those just comingin.
that are looking for a brokerage,maybe interviewing with a
brokerage, how do they make thatdetermination?
What should they be looking for,for a brokerage that fits with
them?In addition to the culture and
community, what kind of things doyou think are important or should
be important for those coming in?Yeah, I think they need to really
evaluate the values that they havefor themselves as they carry on
through the brokers they'rejoining as the fit with respects
(10:39):
to what they expect to get fromsomeone.
Because it's one thing to say tosomeone coming in, hey, I can do
this for you.
but it's what the brokerage can do
for them, right?So they need to have maybe a list
of three things, four things.
Hey, I need this, this, this.
That requires you to bevulnerable.
It might require, hey, I'm lackingin confidence.
You have training material thathelps confidence.
I bring that up as a point.
(11:00):
I can talk about it later.
I have training of liveconversations, my own
conversations with my clients andfriends.
I have 200 playbooks that will gofrom a gauntlet of First -time
homebuyers, repeat buyers,reviewing affordability numbers,
all of these things.
Because I think in our business,
there's a lack of live training,right?
In terms of hearing.
And when I say learning by
osmosis, in today's world, it'shard.
Nobody comes into an officeanymore, right?
When I joined, I joined anotherbroker.
Before Mortgason, I was there fora year and a half.
(11:22):
It was an office environment wherethey had cubicles.
Everybody heard everything.
I picked up a lot on that.
So I think that's something to bemindful of as well.
You know, one of the other thingsthat you mentioned was about that
lack of knowledge andunderstanding of like the B side
and products like that.
Do you think that bank employees
like bank mortgage reps shouldknow more about the industry so
(11:42):
that they could give maybe betteradvice to their clients as in,
more about the industry so thatthey could give maybe better
advice to their clients as in, youknow, our narrow suite of
products, it's not really perfectfor you.
There's other options out there.
And let me point you over to.
one of those options or one of thebrokers.
(12:03):
Do you think that the banks wouldbetter serve their clients by
having that knowledge?I don't think the bank is excited
about doing that because they knowthat it's not a benefit for their
people to know.
don't think the bank is excited
about doing that because they knowthat it's not a benefit for their
people to know.
But I can tell you, I think
(12:23):
bankers make the best brokers.
That's my opinion, just because
they've been in the corporateenvironment.
But the best investment you canmake is in yourself.
Spend the $400, go to Remick, getthe license just so you can
understand.
what a broker needs to be
licensed.
It doesn't mean you're going to
make the move.
You're allowed to write the
course.
You're just, you wrote the course.
You invested in yourself.
(12:44):
And then, you know, that'll open
the door, right, to them deciding,hey, wait a minute, I wrote this
course or I did some more researchmyself, not because the bank told
me to, because the bank won't tellyou to.
And they would be doing themselvesa favor, number one.
And then in turn, They're going tobe helping their clients and their
friends with other alternatives.
Listen, I know when I left
Scotiabank, Oriana, I think it wasthe brokers, they were
(13:04):
investigating doing deals that thebank said no to transfer, like to
be their person.
Like, hey, if you have declined
deals that have no option, I thinkRBC has something similar or did
anyway.
So there is that there, but it's
not talked about, I don't think,all that much because it's taboo.
You don't want to be talking aboutit.
But nonetheless, I think it'simportant, yes, for them to
educate themselves.
For the sole reason, for
themselves.
But remember I said, we can do
everything we can.
We can beat them over the head.
(13:25):
We can scream from themountaintops.
We can, you know, make everyattempt to help them.
But if they do not want to helpthemselves, whether it's learning,
to And they it's learning, gettingto a different place, or anything
like that, you know, it's like anold saying, you can bring your
horse to water, but you can'tforce it to drink, right?
But I think there is a tremendousamount of value to just expand
your knowledge, even if you don'tapply it right away.
(13:45):
a just expand your knowledge, evenif you don't apply it right away.
See what the world's about a bitin that sense.
You mentioned about the trainingthat you do, mentioned about the
training that you do, the livetraining, which is fantastic.
That sounds exactly like whatpeople need.
How have you found that the peoplethat you have working for you have
responded to that?Thank you so much for asking that.
Because again, I'm going to belive.
(14:06):
My brokerage October 15th.
So I'll be very honest.
I don't have the agents yet.
Like I have everything I need
around me.
I have my executive associate,
Melanie, who handles my emails,calendars.
And I know Melanie now six years.
She was on MatLeaf two years ago.
I brought her back May of thisyear.
I hired Sean, my associate.
And I say associate, but my
underwriter.
I like to use the right words
anyway.
I brought him a year before
Melanie went on MatLeaf, notbecause I knew she was going to go
(14:32):
on MatLeaf and have twins, but tosupport her.
So Sean's now become theassociate.
Melanie looks after all the stuffI hate doing.
I have a marketing coordinator.
I have this training.
But what I don't have, and I knewthis was going to be the heaviest
lifting, was agent.
honest.
I I believe and have faith when Istart to get people coming on
board.
There's three parts.
Recruiting, hiring, onboarding.
Recruiting is, hey, tell me about
who you are, what's going on.
Hiring is, here's our culture.
This is going to be what you'rejumping into.
(14:53):
Oh, they want to.
It's onboarding.
That's the heaviest liftingbecause, man, oh, man, it's tough
for a new brokerage, an infancybrokerage.
You understand how that all works.
TD Bank, I start with zero.
That means I have to build up toget full comp.
Scotia, I have a pretty goodrelationship with.
I think I'm going to be okay for ayear.
So I'm betting on myself, bettingon DNA Lending Group, but I think
(15:14):
people will love this training.
Like why read some information
when you can hear liveexperiences?
If I was a new agent and somebodysaid to me, hey man, you can
listen to me, talk to a variety ofdifferent, and it's all
confidential.
There's no disclosure of personal
information.
It's just a conversation like
we're having, minus if you didn'tsay my last thing, for example, it
would just be Mike, Kane, and Joe.
There's a million Mike, Kane and
Joes, but we're not talking aboutmy social insurance number.
(15:36):
None of that is happening in theconversation.
Zero.
I would think as a new agent,
that's maybe a biased response,but I would love it.
was a I think that Kane wouldagree that our students like that
type of interaction.
And, you know, students love case
studies, things of that nature.
And I think this is a great
extension on that type oftraining.
You take it from a case study,theoretical to a live interaction.
(15:57):
Joe, what I've done in preparationof creating these playbooks.
is I've asked people to, or willbe asking people to listen, but
not only listen, but what tolisten for.
Like, I mean, during aconversation, you can hear
enthusiasm, humor, compassion,empathy.
You hear it all.
Like, I mean, when I'm an
excitable person, you know, justlike laughter, enthusiasm is
contagious.
You know, there's a lot of things
built in.
Like some of these conversations
are very heartfelt.
And these are some people I've
(16:18):
known for a while.
The people I had just met.
And the idea of conversations fornew people, new agents, sometimes
they think they have to ask abouttheir whole family.
No, no. When I get a new client,I'll give you a quick synopsis.
Hey, Joe Smith was kind enough torefer you.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you for the
(16:38):
opportunity to help and serve you.
Tell me a little bit about what
you're doing.
You tell me a little bit about
what you need.
Hey, Mike, I'm looking to buy a
house, blah, blah, blah.
Then I just go dive right in.
Okay, here's the thing.
Talk about the market, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then...
Get them to buy in.
I get their permission.
I'll say things like, with yourpermission, I'll send you an
(16:59):
email, and then you know where thebuy -ins are.
You know where the pain pointsare.
You know what things arehappening.
And lo and behold, 30 minuteslater, I'm sending out an email.
This is what I need.
The requested item's required.
And they're sending it, and we'retaking the next.
And then the relationship builds.
We start talking about kids.
We start talking about this.
(17:19):
But the initial conversation
should always be, let's get to thenitty -gritty.
Slow, small talk, banter.
but then get into it.
Relationships are not built on thefirst call.
What's built on the first call iswhat the client needs.
Every playbook is almost identicalin that sense, but obviously
different interactions.
built So Mike, I think this is so
(17:40):
important for new agents, maybeespecially if you're new, like you
said, completely new to financialservices, completely new to sales,
completely new to marketing, thosetypes of things, those soft
skills, that training is superimportant.
Even before they get there though,and you're just about doing this
now.
What types of things are you going
to look for from new agents?What are those markers that you're
going to look at and say, okay,I'm going to hire this person.
I know I want that.
I'm just curious to know because I
(18:01):
think there's a misconceptionabout people that enter in this
industry that they do have to havesome finance background or do have
to have sales background.
I'm wondering what you're looking
for.
I'll tell you what they need.
that do have to have salesbackground.
I'm wondering what you're lookingfor.
I'll tell you what they need.
It's the only thing they need
because everything else can betaught.
They either will understand creditand debt or they don't.
I have pieces that... can easilysay like GDS, TDS, if they look
(18:21):
puzzled, okay, credit card debt,what's that?
Okay, sorry, I'm not the guy foryou, or maybe you should, because
it's either you understand ourbusiness, the fundamental, the
application numbers,affordability.
If you can't grasp that, and thenyou're not expected to know right
away, but if you ask me a questionand you've come back to me one
time, two times, okay, if you comeback to me the third or fourth or
(18:42):
fifth time for the same exactthing, it's because you don't
understand.
And I will have to have a
difficult conversation,unfortunately.
Hey, so -and -so, Joe, it mightnot be for you.
It's just you're not capturing it.
So that's number one.
I think the top, top is I get asense for them if they understand
it.
Because remember, our business was
never taught in school.
(19:02):
So financial matters, mortgages is
close to the best.
You only learn it from your
family, typically.
A lot of people, their first bank
account, of course, will be wheretheir parents banked.
That's how it worked, right?And so it's just important to
understand as much as you can, dothey understand credit?
Credits and debits.
That's what they need because the
conversation piece, the peoplepieces, that can be taught.
Those are soft skills.
Trust and credibility, believe it
or not, is soft skills.
(19:23):
How do you establish trust and
credibility?Through your process.
Calling them when you tell themyou are.
You know, you're following up whenyou're going to follow up and all
of those small things.
I equate trust and credibility to,
deposits and withdrawals in a bankaccount.
The more deposits you have, themore you can afford to withdraw.
We're not perfect.
We're going to make mistakes.
But if you're not making thosedeposits, following up when you
are, doing the things you sayyou're going to do, doing the
thing that's in their bestinterest, and then, oh, lender
(19:46):
made a mistake or something,there's a withdrawal, but it
doesn't overdraw your account.
So you're still building on that.
To answer your question, Kane, Iwill know right away if they
understand the numbers piece ofour business.
Like someone that has some basic,someone that has some basic,
understanding of financialliteracy or even their ability to
grasp that and communicate iteffectively.
It also sounds like what I'mpicking up from what you said is
(20:07):
maybe discipline is important, theability to be organized and do
what you say.
So I think all of those play in
there as well.
Yeah.
Another piece maybe, I've beencalled the CRM guru.
I wouldn't go that far, but I'mgrateful for somebody
acknowledging.
I've been doing this since 2014,
where I have journals.
I mean, journals upon journals,
like of client journeys.
(20:28):
And my very first one was Nikki.
2014, she referred me, her friend,then her daughter.
And I write all about it.
If people are shy about
journaling, whether it's forthemselves personally, great, but
for their clients, so they knowwhat's going on.
Do you want to explain, Mike, whatyou mean by journaling?
Maybe for those that aren't sureexactly if the context is.
(20:49):
Of course, of course.
sure So let's say I meet a client
and we have a conversation in myCRM, describe it as a task or my
notes section.
I put the date.
So today is October 3rd, 2024.
I describe our conversation, how
it went, what it went.
Next time I talk to them, let's
say a week later, it's now Octoberthe 10th.
And I don't need to put the yearbecause it's a continuous journal
(21:10):
from top to bottom.
And those things will just
describes the whole event.
So Joe talked about this in the
course he was talking about.
Let the deal talk about itself.
You know, if you ever get like acompliance issue, you shouldn't
have to explain the deal.
You should allow your deal to talk
for itself.
I just want to add something in
there.
You know, we see a lot of students
coming through our course, a lotof different personalities.
(21:31):
Some people struggle with thatpart of it, making those notes.
I think it's super important.
I think it's important for your
business reasons and also, youknow, to make sure you're
compliant as well.
And like Joe was mentioning your
deal.
But what I want to say is that
there's not really an excuseanymore because with this
emergence of technology.
Joe and I both have a product
called the Plot Note, which youcan attach to your phone.
(21:51):
It'll record your entireconversation.
It'll summarize your conversation,make those notes for you.
There's also technology you canattach to any one of your virtual
meetings that can do the same typeof thing.
So it takes away a lot of the workor almost all the work for things
like that.
Those tasks that you maybe don't
want to do.
(22:12):
There's no excuse anymore not to
be doing that.
be doing that.
You know, God bless you, man.
What a great comment because I'm
old school.
I'm an habitual person.
You have to be habitual to besuccessful.
And I know there's technology now.
I can't wait.
Maybe I got a young person who'san IT savvy because IT and I are
not friends.
So I struggle.
I hate it.
I cringe.
But this idea of what you justsaid, this thing you plug into
(22:35):
your phone, imagine being in yourcar and you get a call and you
have this thing you just describedand then you have this
conversation and then you don'thave to take any notes because it
gets downloaded into, oh, it'smusic to my ears.
It's available now, available now,Mike.
You can get it.
I know, I know.
Listen, You can get it.
I know, I know.
Listen, I'm doing so many thingsat the moment.
(22:56):
I got so many irons in the fire.
But yes, I know.
I know there's so much out there.
The three of us will go out on a
lunch on me and you can show meall that stuff for sure.
I You know, the major problem withit is that you have to charge this
stuff.
And like the chargers are
ridiculous.
I mean, they're unique to the
device.
I had, you know, like a padlock
that you can open with athumbprint.
okay i can't find the charger forit so you know what am i gonna do
(23:21):
i gotta go now and search thecompany and find a replacement
charger and the anxiety thatbrings up joe is killer that's why
i try to stay in my lane but iwould love to be more in tune with
what you're describing yes yes forsure yeah and kane likes to say
that he's constantly curious andthat's an excuse as to why he's
always on his phone you have to becurious especially about
technology because otherwise youknow if you're going to end up
anxiety that brings up joe iskiller that's why i try to stay in
(23:43):
my lane but i would love to bemore in tune with what you're
describing yes yes for sure andkane likes to say that he's
constantly curious and that's anexcuse as to why he's always on
his phone have to be curiousespecially about technology
because otherwise you know ifyou're going to end up you know,
still using Microsoft Excel onlyfor your CRM when there's these
robust systems that can do a tonof stuff and you're, you know,
just stuck in your lane, right?your lane, right?
(24:04):
Yeah, and I will say this.
So I have a great friend.
Shout out to Roy Cocholo.
He's the broker owner of Your
Mortgage Your Way.
I love Roy.
It's his birthday today.
Happy birthday, Roy.
And so he referred me over tosomeone that built on Google
Suites or G Suites.
So I'm going to take that next
step for my brokerage too, right?Because as I bring on people,
there's going to be opportunity torevamp some of my backend because
anybody starting a business, ifyour operations is not fine
-tuned, you're going to strugglequite a bit.
And I know this already, and I'mdoing all the work on that end to
(24:27):
do that.
So to your point, although I'm a
dinosaur, I'm moving a little bitout of the old age.
It is the new world.
You know, my podcast, Old School
New World, going to old schoolprincipal's way of doing things,
but it's a new world.
that we have to adapt to.
So yeah, have to adapt to.
So yeah, maybe tell us a bit about
(24:47):
the podcast.
Have you started it?
Have you filmed any episodes?Give us some info about the
podcast.
So it's something that, So it's
something that, you know, listen,podcasting is a long game.
I didn't start it to make money.
I started it because I wanted to
help young people understanddifferent topics, whether it's
wellness, financial literacy, youknow, anything to do with what
they were looking to achieve.
I do have three episodes that have
already been aired.
My mostly recent one, you guys
will know Michael Beckett.
So Michael Beckett is a gem of a
man.
I've known Michael for 13 years,
founder of Mortgage Alliance.
And he was gracious enough to be
my third guest.
Him and I had just a great
conversation.
And I've always considered Michael
a mentor.
is But at the end of last year,
meaning December 2023, I came outand asked him to be my mentor.
(25:08):
And lo and behold, he was kindenough to say yes.
And the same thing with Roy.
So I have two mentors.
And I think mentorship.
is so important.
I'm 47, so I'm not like a youngguy, but it's never too late to
start.
And so Roy also, I asked him at
the end of last year because Ihave a great deal of respect for
him as well and what he's done forhimself personally and
professionally.
And they both said yes.
(25:29):
So I meet with them once a monthas a sort of, hey, what's going
on?Things like that.
Because leadership, you need tolearn to be the best leader you
can be.
And so you need mentorship.
Sorry, back to the podcast.
So the episode I had with Michael
was fantastic.
And I'm pivoting a bit.
So I'm redesigning it a bit.
I know how there's different ways
of doing it.
But I really did my purpose for it
(25:50):
is to help others.
My purpose in life, I've
discovered, is to help and serveas many people as I possibly can.
And I won't get into a lot ofdetail.
But, you know, three and a halfyears ago, my life changed
forever.
I was in a coma for 17 days.
And the first year and a half wasthe most difficult time in my
life.
Last year has been the most
incredible year of my life.
And it's the best space I've lived
in my whole entire life.
And the amount of blessings that
(26:10):
fall from the sky, and they're notdivine, small things.
I'm very blessed and grateful.
So, you know, things like that
will come out more.
And my therapist is writing a
book.
She's 99 .9 % agreed to be the
ghostwriter.
My life is pretty dynamic,
gentlemen, pretty wild.
I mean, it sounds really
interesting.
mean, it sounds really
interesting.
Obviously, there's a story there
and perspective has maybe changed.
(26:31):
It sounds like after something
happened, perspective changed alittle bit.
Is that what we're getting?we're getting?
Yeah, what happens is soincredible.
There's something called post-traumatic growth.
So there's a study that's beingdone in the US, has been for a few
years, and I came across it byaccident or maybe not by accident,
where it says when you either haveemotional trauma, physical trauma,
or any kind of, if you're carryingbags of rocks around and you can't
(26:53):
let those bags go, guess what'sgoing to happen?
Those rocks turn radioactive andlife's going to be really tough.
And so something like thathappens, you either regress, you
stay frozen, or you accelerateforward in growth.
And the idea, and my therapist andI are going to talk about this in
the book a bit, if you werealready prior to this experience,
you were already attempting togrow, whether it's professionally,
personally, whatever it is, andthis trauma happens, it's not
(27:13):
going to be easy.
Like I said, first year and a half
is the most difficult.
When you turn that corner and
you're already in the action priorto the incident or a situation
growing, that acceleration ofgrowth, and that's what post
-traumatic growth looks at.
But the reason they're having a
hard time identifying itspecifically, because they're
trying to help therapists,psychiatrists with this
information, it can only begathered from the people that knew
(27:34):
the person best, right?Close friends, family.
Have you noticed a difference inthem?
What has been happening to them?Helping us understand.
what they were doing prior ordoing after.
So that kind of thing is part ofit.
And the other thing I'll ask forsome perspective, I have an
addictive personality and Michaeland I talked slightly about this
on our last episode, but I was anaddict and that label would always
be with me.
And my drug of choice was cocaine,
(27:54):
but it wasn't an everyday thing,but it was part of my life for a
long while.
And there's an itch that happens
when you're an addict.
It's like a circle.
You're in the baseline.
If you're doing whatever drug it
is, you go above the line, there'sa world, there's a space that's
real.
What happens, you come down, you
go below the base, you're there,ugly world below the base.
You come up, then an itch on theshoulder.
(28:15):
Hey man, start to party.
And then it's rinse and repeat.
And that's the struggle addicts gothrough in this cycle that they
live in.
After this incident for me, when I
woke up, I guess a year and a halfwas the most difficult.
And I had doctors calling me.
Do you feel depressed, suicidal?
Like it was, I had a epiduralhematoma.
So swelling of the brain, had totake the scalp off the thing and
(28:36):
it's really dramatic.
I almost died.
But even that incident was ablessing.
So doctors were calling me and I'mthinking to myself, the I'm
thinking to myself, no, I'm notlike that.
What's going on?And then finally, I was feeling
like I was walking throughmolasses.
So imagine wearing boots andsocks, boots comes off, then the
sock, you put the sock back on,then the boot, and it's over and
over again.
So I finally went to talk to one
(28:58):
of my dearest friends.
And I said, Jesse, you know, I'm
thinking I'm going to see myfamily doctor because this last
year, doctors have been callingme, following up, asking me if I'm
depressed or whatever.
Maybe I should go talk to my
family doctor about medicationbecause maybe that's what this guy
needs.
And she goes, I don't know how I
feel about that.
You know, and everybody has this
(29:19):
stigma about mental health andwhat we should do about it and
what we shouldn't.
Everyone struggles with it.
And Jesse, in the best way sheknows how, Mike, man.
You said, you know, rip lines ofcocaine and didn't give a shit.
And now you're worried abouttaking medication?
I go, ah, okay, fair, good point.
So I go talk to the doctor and we
(29:41):
went on a program.
And I say program, the medication.
And it's only started kicking inand working well.
Finally, in December of 2022, Isaid, oh, finally, I'm feeling a
little bit like I did.
Because the thing I wanted to feel
better again, feel like I wasbefore, but not with the
artificial reasoning of dealingthe way I was feeling.
And then lo and behold, fastforward to April, 2023.
My doctor and I had a plan to getoff the medication.
Being a Portuguese guy andstubborn like hell, he said, okay,
(30:02):
Mike, wean off this.
Okay, doctor, no problem.
Stop taking it as soon as I gothome from the visit.
Holy, three days later, I thoughtI was ready to like throw up.
So I went off the weaning and I'vebeen off it now and I feel great.
What I learned from that is thatif I ever find myself in a dark
place or somewhere where I'mstruggling and it's lasting a long
time, maybe I need to go see mydoctor.
(30:25):
you know, my family.
I don't need the artificial stuff.
You know, I've been cocaine soberthree and a half years, super
proud of it.
That's never going to be a part of
my life.
It probably didn't have to be.
But now I know if I feel weird, orif I feel something's going on,
then I'll go talk to my familydoctor because medication is not
necessarily antidepressants or anykind of medication to be taken
lifetime.
Some people need it.
And that's because they need tobalance the chemicals in the
(30:48):
brain.
And that's okay.
But I use it for an eight -monthperiod.
And I feel great.
The only drug I'm on now is a drug
of life.
So it's awesome.
You know, and your point aboutmental health is so well made.
It is something that used to havemore of a stigma.
I hope that as time goes by, thatstigma is stripped down and left
by the wayside.
You were absolutely right.
I think we all struggle with it atone point or another.
So congratulations on that.
That is a really... heartfelt and
(31:09):
inspiring story thank you thanksfor opening up a little bit yeah i
think that's really important forjust the reason that you said and
you know normalizing this a littlebit it doesn't have to be such a
stigma you know we all havestories we all have problems right
sometimes as joe mentioned so ithink it's really cool that you
share that you know one thing i'llthank my parents for my mom you
know god love her still around sheloves to talk okay and my dad's a
(31:30):
little more quiet and reserved icame from a family of cleaners
they had a cleaning business youthanks for up a little bit i think
that's really important for justthe reason that you said and you
know normalizing this a little bitit doesn't have to be such a
stigma you know we all havestories we all have problems right
sometimes as joe mentioned so ithink it's really cool that you
share that you know know that youknow one thing i'll thank my
(31:52):
parents for my mom you know godlove her still around she loves to
talk okay and my dad's a littlemore quiet and reserved i came
from a family of cleaners they hada cleaning business The reason I
got into banking was because of mymom.
My brother and I used to go withthem to clean, right?
And all kinds of differentbranches my dad had contracts for.
And there was a branch manager atTD Bank, Peter Miller.
My mom used to go into his office,oh, Mike, if you ever became a
(32:16):
branch manager, I would buy you achair.
I'm like, oh.
Okay, I'm what, 10, 11, 12.
I don't know.
whatever and then it ended up
happening that way it was quitefunny but they always made me know
that it took me to speak yourtruth so what's happened to you in
your past doesn't define who youare what's happened in your past
and what you do with it is defineswho you are right and so i'm glad
(32:36):
to be the torch bearer of talkingabout because god knows my life
has not been perfect you know someof my friends after the most
recent things and my man you'relike a cat you have nine lives but
It's like 12, like you're likemore than a cat.
I know.
But I'm now in the most, like I
said, the best space I've lived.
(32:56):
I think a really important piece
of what you're saying here, thinka really important piece of what
you're saying here, at least whatI'm taking from it is, and we talk
a little bit about this in some ofour post -licensing course, is the
importance of doing someintrospection and really figuring
out before you even do yourbusiness planning is figuring out
why do you want to do this?Why are you getting in this
(33:20):
industry?What is your personal?
What is your why?I mean, there's a lot of talk
about that now.
I think it's super important to go
through that and really thinkabout it and feel like you
mentioned helping people.
I think that's a popular one in
this industry.
People also miss some of that,
right?There's a lot of reasons why we
talk to a lot of brokers and a lotof them have similar passion to
help people.
And they get that good feeling
(33:40):
when they do a deal and they, youknow, maybe it's a family, maybe
they help them out of something orhelp them.
buy their home.
And there's that really amazing
feeling that you can't quantifyuntil you do it.
So I think that's missed often inthis industry.
Thank you.
you.
You know, I'll say too, Kane, ontop of the helping is the serving.
We provide a service.
You know, the helping, yes, is
important to, but it's like arestaurateur who's in the
hospitality industry.
They want to make that experience
for the person sitting down.
And unreasonable hospitality is
another great book I've read.
It talks about this service
lifestyle.
service being a purpose and it's
not so much about what we help theperson with is how we serve them
and you know what we do andremember that servicing is not
only during it's always after theserving piece comes after so how
do you make it come after by againback to the beginning we were
talking about the process thefollow -up because you genuinely
want to serve When I call a weekafter closing six months, two
years, well, six month Melanie isthankfully taking over for me.
(34:00):
And I'll do my personal call attwo year, three and a half, six
months prior to maturity.
The two year call or even the six
month follow up is just to checkin, say, hi, you know, what's
going on?Is the home still treating you
really well?Whatever the case is, whatever my
journaling notes had.
Hey, we talked about, you know,
Hunter was sick.
So I had a client, for example,
the one today had a follow upquestion for him and about the
(34:23):
lender was asking.
Reasonable explanation.
Why is your year -to -date offtrack?
Call the client.
His son was not well.
He had to take two weeks off.
Boom.
That's going to be in my notes.
Because when I follow up next
time, and there will be a nexttime, because until clients tell
me to beat it, I'm never going togo away.
And I say this to them, and that'spart of building trust and
credibility in relationships.
I tell them straight out, hey,
man, I'm always going to keep intouch with you until you tell me
to beat it.
There's always a good chuckle, a
(34:44):
laugh about it.
They love it, I'm sure.
I love it because I just loved it.
So that servicing piece is not
during, it's after.
I mean, I think that's...
Such a good lesson, especially forthose that maybe haven't realized
that yet, or maybe that are new tothe industry.
You know, Joe and I talk aboutthat a lot with different service
providers in our own lives.
We have a life insurance agent
that we both work with.
And, you know, he contacts us on
(35:05):
our birthday, contacts usrandomly.
Even if I don't answer the phone,he leaves a voicemail.
I know he's thinking about me.
And, you know, you can bet when I
think about life insurance, I'mgoing right to him as opposed to
doing a deal with him.
And then five years later, I
forgot his name, right?You know, if you find yourself
sitting at home.
in the car, going for a walk, and
somebody you haven't talked to orseen in a long time pops into your
head, just a thought of them.
You know what I believe that is?
(35:27):
All you have to do, send them atext.
Hey, man, I hope you're doingwell.
Thinking about you.
Whatever it is, whatever that
thought triggered you, it is,whatever that thought triggered
you, it's a reason.
There's a reasoning behind it.
And that could apply to yourclients.
Maybe you haven't talked to aclient in a long time.
Oh, this client popped into myhead.
A lot of people maybe will justdismiss that.
(35:48):
Just maybe send if you don't havethe processes, do something
because there's a reason why thatpopped into your head.
And either they need you or youjust need a hi or just need to
hear from someone.
Even if it's just like I said,
hey, how are you?And, you know, hope you're well.
And that can open the gate,perhaps, to them offering and
(36:10):
opening up to you about something.
Do you think technology might
change the way that you operate alittle bit or the way the role?
will become for mortgage agentsand brokers.
Hopefully it doesn't take away anyof that personalization.
We can use the technology to domore of that, but interested to
hear what you think.
to hear what you think.
That's funny.
So Roy and I were having a
conversation about this the otherday.
So he likes the AI concept of howwe're going to apply it in our
(36:32):
business and the robo calling withyour own voice that's available, I
think at some level, you know, toreach out to a client with your
voice being AI.
To me, it takes away the humanity
piece, you know, because a voicenever sounds like your voice
exactly.
And people will see that, but
that's almost desensitizingsociety.
I'm not there yet.
I'm not saying it doesn't have a
place.
I'm sure my son, Nathan, who's 15,
when he's 25 or 30, there'll becommon practice, you know, having
(36:56):
a son this age and what they dowith TikTok, Instagram, instant
gratification.
This is a whole new, you know.
But I'm concerned it desensitizeswhat I believe is important, is
the humanity piece.
Yeah, and you know what?
I definitely agree with that.
The whole concept of trying to
reach out to somebody with yourown voice or even an avatar that
looks exactly like you, I thinkthat there's a creep factor there,
(37:16):
and it's disingenuous.
I wouldn't mind if I knew what I
was talking to was an AI.
But I don't want it to be like in
Kane's voice or my kid's voice orsomebody who's real.
I want to know that it's an AI.
And yeah, I'm talking to this and
it's giving me a greatinteraction.
But yeah, I'm not going to do arobocall with an AI generated
voice of mine.
Right.
I just, I can't get myself to dothat.
But here's the thing, right?A lot of the young people today,
(37:36):
they might think that's cool orwho knows how they're thinking.
There definitely is a cool factor.
And I think you can combine what
you guys are saying into, so ifyou're doing a robo call, right
away in the call, you say, hey,this is the robo cane.
I want you to know that I'm notreal.
If you want to talk to the realcane, you can do that anytime.
This is pretty cool, right?Let's have a chat.
That's what I mean about beingdisingenuous, This is pretty cool,
(37:57):
right?Let's have a chat.
That's what I mean about beingdisingenuous, where you're trying
to have it imitate your voice orbe you and try to trick somebody
into thinking that I'm dealingwith you.
I think that's... creepy.
But I think what you just said,
Cain, there is an innovative wayto take that and use it.
And then that's cool.
It's almost funny.
I'm RoboCain.
It'd be funny, I'm RoboCain.
It'd be funny, right?Just to finish off that thought,
in my opinion, anytime you'reengaging with any AI that isn't
human, I think it should alwaysclarify what it is.
(38:19):
when it's engaging with a human sothat it can make a decision how it
wants to talk to it.
They might choose the AI when they
want to talk about stuff that is,for example, very personal and
they don't want a human to know,or maybe it's very emotional for
them and they can find somesecurity in talking to a machine.
There's that element as well that,you know, I've read a couple of
things that they're already seeingthat with therapy and some other
(38:41):
stuff.
So there's interesting bits there
anyway.
is, Yeah.
And I was just going to last pointto add to that in terms of, you
know, voice messages, theserobocalls I've incorporated in the
last like four or five months,voice notes.
Like I'll do a voice message.
And then I'll follow the voice
note on the text because peopledon't listen to voice messages
anymore.
So this robo text, for example,
saying what you said, Cain,because I like that idea as well.
(39:01):
Hey, this is, you know, robo Cain.
Want to speak to Cain?
Give us a call.
But we just want to say hi or
follow up.
It's a two year follow up,
whatever the case may be.
But the texting aspect, because
people, man, you know, they're ontheir phone.
Yeah.
year Comes in and that's easier
than, oh, I got a voice message.
(39:24):
Like, you know, who wants to
listen to that?know, who wants to listen to that?
Especially like my generation, I'm38.
My generation and younger,especially with text, this is why
everyone's going to WhatsApp anddoing text.
It works, right?People get better response rate.
I think there's a lot to be saidfor that.
For sure.
We're closing in on the hour.
(39:46):
closing in on the hour.
It's the best hour I've ever
spent.
the best hour I've ever spent.
Yeah, my friend.
my friend.
It's the same here.
Time flies when you're having fun,
right?And this has been a wonderful
conversation.
Mike, we thank you so much for
being so candid.
From our hearts, you're well
-known in the industry as aphenomenally nice guy and honest.
(40:08):
And we wish you all the successwith DNA Lending.
And we'll hopefully have you backon so you can tell us about your
travels going through starting upwith DNA and hiring new people.
And we'd love to touch base withyou again, maybe down the road and
see how things have gone.
And by the time our listeners get
this, by the time our listenersget this, you'll probably already
be up and running.
So where can the listeners find
you?Do you have a website?
Do you have a handle?I have a website, handle?
(40:29):
I have a website, dnalendinggroup.com.
You can reach me at my phonenumber directly.
I'm always on my phone, 416 -357-4003.
Or of course, email at mike atdnalendinggroup .com.
And before we sign off, guys, Ilove you very much.
Absolute honor to be on yourpodcast.
I will, with your permission.
follow up with you guys and have
you be guests on my podcast.
Would love to.
love to.
Yeah, love to.
So I have your permission.
love to.
So I have your permission.
So I will make sure I set that up.
And I appreciate you guys a greatdeal.
(40:51):
Mike, you're fantastic.
It's been a lot of fun and look
forward to do it again.
Looking forward to being on yours.
And yeah, it'll be a lot of fun.
Thanks, Mike.
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