Jae Zole on Performing With Logic & His Song on Madden 24

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When a Minnesota rapper decided to quickly record an open verse challenge on TikTok before bed, he never imagined it would lead to performing with Logic in front of 20,000 people just days later. But that's exactly what happened to  ⁨@jaezole8850⁩ , whose raw talent and authentic style caught the attention of one of hip-hop's most respected artists.

In this candid conversation, Jae takes us through the surreal experience of receiving that life-changing call from Logic himself, being flown to Miami, and stepping onto a massive stage having only performed for crowds of 50 people before. "I pretty much blacked out," Jae admits about the moment he hit the stage, though he notes performing for thousands paradoxically felt easier than intimate shows where "you see everyone's reaction."

The conversation ventures beyond that pivotal moment to explore how Jae's music landed on the Madden 24 soundtrack alongside industry titans like Jack Harlow and Polo G. Despite these impressive achievements, what truly moves Jae isn't fame or fortune, but the impact his music has on listeners. "Some of your music saved my life," a fan once told him—a moment Jae describes as "worth more than any dollar amount."

Perhaps most refreshing is Jae's grounded approach to the music industry. While pursuing his passion, he's simultaneously studying physical therapy, creating multiple paths forward rather than placing all his hopes on musical success. His advice to aspiring artists? "You just gotta not give a f*** what anyone thinks of you... You're alive one time, why would you not do what you love out of fear of what other people are gonna think?"

Whether you're a music creator, fan, or someone pursuing your own creative dreams, Jae Zole's story reminds us that sometimes the biggest opportunities come when you least expect them—but only if you've put in the work to be ready when they arrive.

0:00 Meeting Jae Zole and His Accolades
7:27 The Logic Story: TikTok to Miami Stage
13:40 Performing for 20,000 People With Logic
31:37 Getting on Madden 24's Soundtrack
43:25 Creating Music and Balancing Life
53:28 Growing Up as a Small-Town Rapper
1:01:32 Advice for Aspiring Artists

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ladies and gentlemen, today we are joined by rapper
artist TikTok phenom, jay Zoll,and this guy's got a lot of
accolades.
He has been on stage with Logic.
He has a song on the soundtrackof Madden 24.
He has he actually just poppedup in my Spotify day list this

(00:22):
morning.
Dude, thank you so much forcoming today.
Yeah, thank you for having me.
We appreciate you coming on.
So I guess I mean I want to getright down to it and just hear
the story of how you met Logic,how that whole thing played out.
I'm sure you're sick of tellingit a thousand times, but we I
mean we just we have to hear itfirst person, yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
So I was gonna.
Yeah, yeah, like the openverses and stuff, you always see
them.
And then it was like 10, 30 atnight, something like that, and
my homie, marcus, hit me up andhe's like bro, you got to do
this one.
I was like trying to go to bed,I'll do it quick, whatever.
So I posted it.
And then I wake up the next dayand I saw I was getting a
decent amount of views.
I was like, okay, this is dope.
And then I was.
I think I was going to thebathroom just scrolling through

(01:11):
TikTok and all of a sudden hisduet came up of him dueting me
and I just swiped past it, got acouple more swipes.
I was like hold the fuck up.
I was like wait, that was me,that was me yeah, I was like, oh
my god, you know, jump off the,jump out of the bathroom and I

(01:31):
like run over to my littlebrother.
I'm like bro, look at this.
And obviously he wasunimpressed, like little
brothers always are but, yeah,right and then yeah, so I was
like, even just that alone wasenough for me oh, dude, that's,
that's fucking yeah even thatalone.
I was like he heard it, hefucked with it, like that's,
that's, that's crazy.

(01:52):
And then I get an email and itwas like this is logic's manager
, call me at this number.
And I read it.
At first there was no subjecton it, there was no like
signature.
You're thinking like this is ascam.
Am I going to get scammed rightnow?

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, Did the email look normal Like?
Was it an official email?
Or was it like so-and-so atgmailcom or something?

Speaker 2 (02:12):
He pulled his phone out and like in 30 seconds,
typed it out, sent it, likenothing on it.
And then I was like I have tocall, you know just to.
And I called and he's like yo,is this Jay?
I was like yeah, he's likelogic's going to call you, hangs
up.
I was like what?
So then I'm sitting there likelike I still can't decide if I'm

(02:36):
getting scammed, or not.
And then, uh I, my phone rings.
I was like no fucking way, so Ianswered him like yo and
logic's like yo jay.
What's up bro?
What's up man like you know.
And then he's like yeah, I wantto, I want to have you come
perform the song with me inmiami.
And he's like would you be downfor that?

(02:58):
I'm like what?
Yeah, like dude that's insane.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
You got to be like thinking in your head like play
it cool, play it cool, play itcool oh yeah, but you know my
heart rate 185, like I'd startstuttering like hi, I'm like
sweating and shit, but hello sir, mr logic, sir yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
And then, uh, yeah, he's like I got everything taken
care of, you're gonna, we'regonna, pick you up at your house
.
Um, I got your flight we'regonna pick you up in miami whoa
and I was like what the fuck bro?

Speaker 1 (03:26):
so how did that whole process work, like they just
set it up?
They said like this is yourticket information.
Whatever you fly there, whopicks you up?

Speaker 2 (03:32):
like a driver, yeah, like a driver.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Picked me up this, so you were just fucking hanging
out.
Nothing going on.
You're fucking.
You make because these verses,that was huge for a little bit
you know, everyone was doing it,every big artist like open
verse 100, and so you justweren't even thinking like I'll
just do it for fun, see ifsomething happens next thing you
know, you're getting picked upat your house yeah, oh my god,

(03:55):
and like a brand new teslathat's so cool.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
That's cool.
So, from the time that you landto the time you're on stage,
what happens between that?

Speaker 2 (04:08):
So I got to the venue , it was like the Bitcoin.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Oh, the Bitcoin Festival or whatever yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Logic wasn't there yet, so I just kind of was
hanging out backstage.
I got to watch Steve Aoki's set.
That was pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
That's sweet.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Just hanging out there.
And then Logic got there umsaid what's up?
And then we were hanging out onhis, on his like bus thing um
dude, what is that like?

Speaker 1 (04:33):
what's the aura?

Speaker 2 (04:35):
that is Logic on his tour bus, I mean you know how
you always I think a lot ofpeople like idolize celebrities
put them on this like pedestal.
Yeah, when I met him, it's likeI could like he's a normal dude
I could like go to the bar downthe street and like talk to
this dude and yeah, just like anormal dude, super cool.
Um, it's just down to earth yeahlike he didn't treat me, like I

(04:58):
was lesser and like he's likeoff rip.
Just you know, like hugs mehe's like bro, what's up like so
nice to meet you, I'm like niceto meet me bro but, yeah, it
was.
It was super cool.
And then the.
I think the coolest thing abouthim is that a lot of the people
on his team now are people hegrew up with, like his day one

(05:18):
friends yeah like his creativedirector is someone he grew up
with, like all those positionshe gave to people that he grew
up with that he's been friendswith forever.
So just super down to earth,like I couldn't have asked for
like a, a cooler experience well, that's the thing you hear
about.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
A lot of celebrities that are big celebrities that
are still doing well andmaintain a normal lifestyle is
they bring in people that werefriends with them before the
fame for the money and that'show you know, they, they like me
.
They liked me before exactly.
They might like me a littlemore now because of it.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
But you know there's a basis there, at least damn.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
So you?
You go on the bus and you'rejust hanging out.
Do you know?
At this point you're for sureperforming like it's, it's all
going down like what's thatanticipation like leading up to
it?

Speaker 1 (06:06):
were you nervous?
Oh dude, straight fight orflight mode like five hours
straight just adrenaline um andhow many people when you went up
on stage.
How many people were there?
Do you know?
I?

Speaker 2 (06:19):
think it was 15 to 20 000 wow in that range.
It was crazy.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
Oh my gosh, have you performed live before this?

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Just in general have you like.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
Could you give an estimate of like your biggest
show at that point?

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Before that 50.
This is a fucking chain jump.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yeah, it's like you jump from like a base level to
this is the top spot.
Yeah, there jump.
It's like you jump from like abase level to.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
This is the top spot.
Yeah, like there's no minorleagues, because he was a
headliner, for it was he not, hewas the headline.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
He was the headliner he's the prime spot of the
entire festival.
Yeah, so now is this song thatyou perform with him in the
middle of his set, or where wasit?

Speaker 2 (06:58):
it's somewhere in the middle yeah, so he had it in
the middle of a set I watched.
It was like right in the middle.
So I watched the first half andhe doesn't use a backing track
yeah he's just up there.
He raps every word and like alot of people don't understand
how fucking crazy that is.
You're running around stagelike to have that breath control
.
Yeah, he's insane and he likestopped.

(07:20):
He's like you know, know, I dida contest and this white boy
from Minnesota is the one thatwon it and he like calls me out
and I pretty much blacked out.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
There was so much adrenaline going in.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Oh, I bet.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
But the crazy thing is, it's honestly easier to
perform in front of a crowd ofthat size than it is to perform
in front of a crowd of like 50.
Because those crowds of likelike 50 are so it's so personal
you're seeing every person, seeeveryone you see how they react
when it's like 10 to 20 000, iflike you're not even looking at
one person.
If a thousand of them arejumping, then the rest are

(07:55):
probably just going to fallright in line.
You know what I mean.
Good point.
So, like, the small crowdshonestly are more intimidating
in that sense.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Wow that's crazy.
Like what after that, afterthat, after that's, done you
okay?
So, first off, at the end ofthat song, I saw a clip on your
instagram where he's like givingyou a chain, like puts a chain
on you and like he, he says somereally really nice things about
you, says like you're reallypromising, you're a really
talented guy.

(08:22):
You, you know you have thisbright future ahead of you,
whatever, what is that likeafter that, like stepping off of
that stage.
What was going through yourmind?

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Just, I mean, that's got to be what heroin feels like
.
I mean, I felt like I waswalking on clouds, started
clicking my heels and shit.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Oh, I bet, I bet, damn.
So.
Did you get to finish out therest of this like?
Did you watch the rest of hisset?
Like, and then, and then what?
Do you stay the night in miamithat night?

Speaker 2 (08:54):
so um, we go back into his bus.
And he was working out like themoney stuff with the head, uh,
promoter, whatever, and uh, Iwas supposed to go back to the
hotel and then the driver cameto get me and logic was like nah
, jay, you trying to come toNobu?

Speaker 3 (09:10):
Damn.
I was like.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Nobu.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Like hell yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
So we get on like this different bus and drive we
go to Nobu.
I have never seen so many richpeople before.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Oh, I bet, oh my God, especially in Miami, like Nobu
in Miami, that shit was crazy.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
And yeah, he gets his table and then I've never even
been.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
What is Nobu?
It's just like a high-endsteakhouse, right, pretty much.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, they got like everything Steaks, seafood,
stuff, like that and he paid foreveryone.
Like I wasn't 21 yet and he waslike all right, we're getting
drinks for everybody.
He got me, he made sure I got adrink, but yes, it was.
I can't Like there were peoplelike just Balenciaga full body

(09:56):
suits on.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
It's like thousands of dollars.
That shit's worth more thanlike my life right now.
Right Everything I own yeah, myentire net worth is on this
guy's body you must have beenlaying in the hotel that night
like what the fuck like this ismoving so fast yeah it was.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
We went back to the hotel and then I think my flight
left at like 4 am or somethinglike that, but um, logic invited
me up to a suite with him and cdot castro, um, and we were
just chopping it up in there fora while.
Um, and yeah, just like it'ssuper cool to see that there's
still celebrities that are asdown to earth as they are yeah

(10:33):
you know what I mean, becausethey could easily be like all
right, you did your thing, go tothe hotel, get on that plane
yeah, I'm gonna speak to you.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, good point.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, it could be, a whole ploy just to look like a
nice guy you know exactlybringing.
Like we're bringing a fan out,all right see you, man.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
All right, get the fuck out of my face and I think
a guy like Logic I think that'swhy he's gotten so successful is
because of being just such adown-to-earth guy, and that's
how he comes across ineverything I've ever seen with
him.
In it, nothing would ever leadme to believe that he's gotten a
big head out of everything.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
So many people have tried to tear him down
throughout his career.
The fans never have left.
At a certain point if you havea good enough fan base, you're
around forever.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
You'd have to really fuck up, I was a massive Logic
fan.
He was the only guy I wouldlisten to around that
gang-related area.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Under pressure that project.
I listened to religious.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
That's like one of the only whole albums I can
listen to front to back, notskip anything like so good the
entire thing.
All the videos were great Likedude.
It was just an unbelievablefront to back.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
That project yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
It's not so.
You know, being being aroundhim, did you ever feel like you
couldn't?
Or, I guess, did you just likeask him advice at all, like did
you just ask him like, hey, howcan I make this a career?
How can I be better, how can Ido this?

Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah, he gave me a lot of advice.
You know, the big thing is isjust stay true to yourself and
just never stop.
I mean, you never know when.
That, like leading up to that,when that logic shit happened,
was like probably the lowestpoint I'd ever been in my life
and it was kind of like what?

Speaker 1 (12:16):
am.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
I even doing right now.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Like.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
I got to figure this shit out.
And then that happens and it'slike okay, like leading up to to
it never would have happenedhad I just been like fuck this,
I'm done.
you know what I mean and he justsaid always like, stick to it,
um, and keep your circle smallis a big thing too.
Keep it with like, like yousaid, like before, the people

(12:38):
that rocked with you before thatlevel are the people that need
to be there when you are at thatlevel.
Um, I think that was a hugething, because I've definitely
you know, after the logic shitand I'm not famous by any means
and I still had people that werelike yo bro, like acting like
we were best friends yeah I'vetalked to you one time in my

(12:59):
life yeah and like it's weird,it's crazy oh yeah, no 100.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
I noticed a lot of that when you know like we go in
massive ebbs and flows.
It's like we get a few videosthat'll get, you know, a million
views and then all of a suddeneveryone else is like oh, I
listen to that podcast all thetime and it's like oh no, you do
not, no you definitely do not,yeah, so I think that's with any
industry.
Obviously, everyone wants to bea part of something that's

(13:24):
successful, but until it gets tothere, they don't want to
associate themselves with it, infear of them looking also
inferior to what's going on.
So then now fast forward to theMadden 24 soundtrack.
How did that whole thing comeabout?
How did you get a song on theMadden 24 soundtrack?
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
So my manager, nato, um, shout out to nato by the way
, he's, uh, he's been workingwith me since 2021, no, 2020, um
, and he has never, you know,tried to get any money out of me
.
That like wasn't part of themusic stuff.
Like he's been so ride or diefor me, like I got so much love

(14:07):
for that dude.
He introduced me to a guy namedKyle, who's kind of like my
other manager.
Now, same thing with Kyle.
Like I don't have a lot tooffer as an independent artist.
You know what I mean.
I don't have a label budget.
It's like I can't put you onsalary shit like that.
And these guys, you know theymess with me enough to be like
dude, we just want to make musicand work.

(14:28):
So I got introduced to thosetwo and a producer that Kyle
knew reached out and was like yo, you got anything you want to
pitch to Madden.
And he was like then he hit meup.
He's like yo, put a playlisttogether, we're going to send it
to Madden.
I was like all right, I bet,gave him like five songs and

(14:49):
they picked the worst one.
Glory was the worst song onthat playlist and that's the one
they went with.
But yeah, it was just you knowconnections getting to pitch the
songs.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
It's unbelievable to see the names that your name's.
Unbelievable to see the namesthat your name's next to you,
that's I was gonna pull up thebiggest stars at that very
moment in the game and just tohave the opportunity to beat
like because, like I, I'm amadden I love madden, I've
played hours especially 24 I.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
I have heard your song hundreds of times like I
it's just crazy to me when I putit all together, man, because
like so just to give people anidea, for people that don't know
Madden and don't know thesoundtracks, and Madden, how
like monumental that is.
There's names on here Armaniwhite, ASAP, Ferg, ESTG, Jack
Harlow, Jay Zoll, Jay rock, umWiz Khalifa, young Khalifa,

(15:40):
Young Devin, Young Chris, StJohn, London on the Track, Joey
Badass, Mike Dimes, Marshmello,Polo G.
I mean like the names on thiscover are unbelievable.
It's like the star power justin that lineup is insane.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
And I would love to know how many people submitted
playlists.
Like to get picked out, man.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
That's fucking amazing.
It was.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
it was such a blessing and you know I got to
give a lot of the credit to natoand kyle for making that happen
um, now I mean, I'm sureeveryone's thinking this and I
gotta ask what kind of a moneydeal, or is it more exposure
that you get from being involvedin something like that?
Like is yeah, do you get, isthat like, do you get

(16:23):
significant publishing money forbeing on madden 24?

Speaker 2 (16:27):
so you get um, you get an upfront payment, um, and
then that's like split witheveryone that worked on the song
and then I was able to keep thestreaming money for it.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
That's so cool, which was huge I would imagine that
gets looked up a bunch from justbeing on the playlist the, the,
the back end money is where themoney really is.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Um, a lot of people fall for, like, the trap of like
, oh, you're gonna offer me xamount of dollars and that's it.
Okay, cool, I'll take that.
And they miss out on like thelike.
I just saw this post about thisdude that, uh, michael jackson
sampled and he was like I cangive you 20k or I can give you
this percent of the split.
The dude took the 20k.
That now would have been worse,like if he took the percentage

(17:12):
oh yeah, millions of dollarsthat's tough.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, that's tough because also, you know, I'm sure
people look at it like, oh,this guy doesn't really have
much going on, I'm just gonnatake the upfront money yeah and
that seems more guaranteed yeah,but yeah, so I get the serum
and then it's split, you know,with everyone that worked on it.
Um, how many people worked onthat particular song that got
chosen?
I?

Speaker 2 (17:34):
think it was four or five.
Um notto engineered it, uh,notto, and a dude named yukon
engineered it.
Um kyle produced it, and thenChaz was another co-producer on
it.
So cool.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, hell yeah, dude , that is insane.
Is it a trip?
Do you ever?
Do you play Madden?

Speaker 2 (17:52):
hell yeah, dude, I played every Madden.
Yeah, okay, like the Wii, okay,so was it a trip?

Speaker 1 (17:58):
while you're playing Madden 24, like you're hearing
your own song on the game.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
It still trips me out .
That is crazy.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, I can't even wrap my head around.
That is so cool.
Damn, yeah, did you.
Did you have a lot of peoplehit you up about?

Speaker 2 (18:12):
hell, yeah, it was.
Yeah, a lot of people werehitting me up about that.
Um, just like a lot of how the?
Hell did that even.
Yeah, yeah, yeah that's nuts.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Did you?
Do you think you've gotten anyother opportunities just based
on that?

Speaker 2 (18:27):
That's a good question.
I think it's definitely good tohave.
On the resume oh yeah, I thinkpeople take it a little bit more
seriously when you can pull upsomething like that.
I look at it all as steppingstones the logic shit, the
Madden shit.
I had some crazy shit happenlike two weeks ago.

(18:47):
I think it all just kind ofhappens in steps.
You know what I mean.
So 100.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Well, what do you?
Got in the pipeline right nowlike what do you, what do you
have for future things going onso I can't.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
I signed an nda so I can't like give.
So it's something cool.
Yeah, I can't give likespecifics on anything, but it
was like I was out.
I got flown out um to do somework for like a pretty a-list
celebrity.
I was like at his house.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
I saw you were.
You had a post on yourinstagram.
You were in a studio incalabasas.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, yeah I was out there.
I don't even know if I couldsay who it was.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
I don't want to get in trouble or anything.
No worries, yeah, it's fair.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
But no, that was um, that was one of those things
that happened where it's like Ican't even tell anybody this
because no one's gonna believeme, right, so like, but yeah,
that happened.
Um, a lot of the shit I'm doingnow is um focusing a lot on the
songwriting side.
I love writing um huge reasonlike I.
I never got into music for themoney or the fame like fame is

(19:45):
like bottom of the list thingsthat I really want in life.
Um, I just love to make music.
So the songwriting aspect of it, um, I love kind of like it's
it's a lot like acting almost.
You put yourself, you know, inthat artist shoes and just make
music like they would.
Um, so that's like a huge partof what I'm doing right now yeah
, 100% dude, I couldn't.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Oh, wow, that's.
It's cool, because I think yougive me these vibes like
obviously you understand whatyou're doing and you love doing
it.
But I think like it's rare thatyou see someone that kind of
loves the whole package of thegrind.
That's like the process ofdoing it, the thing itself, the
execution of it, and I think youkind of have to have that, to

(20:27):
even have an opportunity to takeit to a level that some would
consider successful.
Obviously, you've already done areally good job of that.
You have this awesome portfolioof proof of concept that you
can do it and that you are doingit.
And it's cool to see, honestly,and I think that was a big
reason why we wanted to have youon.
Like, obviously we already likeyour music, like we already

(20:50):
stream it ourselves, but, um, tobe able to sit down and kind of
get your story, uh, I think wassomething that really
interested us.
Like give us a peek behind thecurtain of like who is jay zol?

Speaker 2 (21:02):
like what makes you you so I mean it all started um,
like I said earlier, um from atown called sock center, super
small, like 4 000 people um, andyou know there's no music scene
there.
People like hard rock and shit.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Like if you go to the bar as much as 65-year-olds if
they heard some rap shit at thebar, some Creed.
A lot of Creed going on.
If they heard a rap song, whatthe fuck is this shit?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (21:28):
So when I was 14, I said Mom, dad, I don't want any
Christmas presents, get me alaptop, get me a mic.
So they got me a laptop and amic.
Um, and then you know, I juststarted working and my music for
like three, four years wastrash it was bad.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
I mean, that's anything, yeah, but you have to
blindly just be in love with it.
Yeah, I'm at that time.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Did you think like this is awesome, this is oh yeah
, I'd finish the song and belike dude, this is the one this
is the baby I'm gonna be famousnow, were you?

Speaker 3 (22:01):
were you getting clowned on at school or did you?
Were people pretty supportive?
In being a small town inminnesota?

Speaker 2 (22:07):
it was definitely a mix.
Um, some people definitelyclowned on me, which is fine,
you know, the music was notgreat, but a lot of people
definitely supported me.
Um, you know, my friends, um, alot of my homies, they like I
could not ask for a bettercircle.
Like I'm driving, you know,three hours to go do a show for

(22:28):
25 people and my homies are likeyo, can I come?
I want to like, and they'lllike we'll pack four of them in
the car and we'll get there.
We'll pack four of them in thecar and we'll get there, and
they'll like that kind of loveis like a huge part of what
keeps me able to like, keepgoing with it.
Um, but there, you know, everyschool has kind of got a

(22:49):
SoundCloud rapper.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
Oh yeah, 100%.
There was like.
There's like three or four ofthem at our high school, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
So there was like there was a SoundCloud rapper in
the town next to me that we hadbeef.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
And we dropped diss tracks.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yes, dude, I love hearing this.
That's so common, that's socommon.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
And then one moved to my school and we had beef and
now we're cool.
Now he's a super cool dude, butfor some reason we hated each
other for a little bit.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
It's a territorial thing.
Yeah, it's a primal instinct.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Like thing, yeah, like it's a primal instinct.
Like this is my lane, not yours.
Yeah, cloud rap, but yeah, sowe beefed to drop diss tracks
and the whole, that whole thingbut was the school like getting
behind it were?

Speaker 3 (23:27):
they was like everyone waiting for the reply
after oh yeah, there was this.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
Oh man, it was like I think it was my senior year.
Um, someone like mentioned arap battle.
We were all in the gym for somereason and, uh, someone heard
rap battle all of a sudden.
Everyone just circles around usI was like god damn dude and I
look over and, like my, myscience teacher is like in the

(23:53):
crowd, like what was going onover here like listening to it
oh it was so funny.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
That's hilarious yeah have you always gone by jayzle,
or did you have an originalname, that that you changed off?

Speaker 2 (24:06):
it's always been jayzle.
Why jayzle?
It's my first name, my lastname, like cut and that took me
like a month.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
It's fucking green, though it works, man it works.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
But yeah, you know, I'd spend hours just staring at
a wall like what the hell do Icall myself?

Speaker 1 (24:24):
yeah, you put so much emphasis on it too.
I'm sure like, yeah, um, youknow the brand what am I gonna
look?
like what am I gonna?
What is my name gonna be?
Do I need a logo like yourbranding?
Everyone puts so muchimportance on the branding
before it even starts ofanything.
You know.
I mean us, even with, uh, withthe podcast dude.
I can't tell you how manydifferent iterations of the

(24:47):
branding and the logo that we'vealready been through.
But pre even starting like I'ma graphic designer by trade and
so like, even leading up to it,I made at least 20 different
versions of what I thought thatthis logo should be.
And then finally, I was justlike screw it, I'm just gonna
have a friend make it, because Ican't make this, yeah, because

(25:08):
you're like bias.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, yeah, totally.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
I deal with that same shit, totally, yeah and what
sucks for us with our brandingis like.
At the time it on tap.
It was all about getting drunklike that's just what we did,
yeah I can't even remember thelast time we recorded and I was
like actually pretty snapped upand it's like we we built this
brand under it, and so we don'twant to change the name.
But it's not really aboutdrinking beer anymore yeah so

(25:33):
like I, I comfort myself by likeon tap.
You know it's bar talk.
Yeah, it's not not always dude.
We used to fucking just ripshots the whole the whole time.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
I'm sure that made for, like even when we started
getting some some viewership,like it was still just blackout
talking on the mic and thenlistening to it on tuesday and
being like, oh my god the wholepremise was like you know,
obviously it's no secret likeshort form content is what's the
most popular thing, and thenideally, you want to bring

(26:05):
people to your longer formthings, whether that be
full-length videos, interviews,whatever the case.
So for us it was like how drunkcan we get and who's gonna say
the craziest thing?
And we're gonna clip that outand it's gonna get a ton of
views.
People are going to come to thepodcast.
But it didn't work out that waybecause it was like the clips
were good and the clips wouldget a million views and then

(26:26):
they'd come to the regularepisode and be like this is
garbage.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
These guys are just drunk rambling for now and for
some reason we couldn't getbrand deals.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
Ah, I wonder why Not brand safe, you know, not
thinking about it, probablygetting you know shadow banned
because there's like alcohol,vapes, things in the shot that
just like automatically don'tpush the video.
You know things that you justhave to learn by just doing.
But how, how has that, do youthink, impacted what you got
going on Like?

(26:54):
From a content perspective,obviously that's what's gotten
you the most attention,especially with the logic
situation.
I saw on your Tik TOK that youhad a video that really blew up.
That was a remix of the BBLDrizzy song I wanted that Metro
booming that was so good, thatwas so funny.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
I wanted that beat so bad.
But yeah, I want to like writemusic for Drake someday, so like
hope he doesn't have any hardfeelings there.
I just wanted the Metro beat.
Yeah, so speaking of rap beef.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
Do you think it's kind of crazy now?
Because when I was younger Ialways had this understanding
that rappers wrote their ownmusic.
It was kind of like if you wereknown as having a ghostwriter
you weren't a real artist.
And then it came out that Drakeuses ghost artists and people
were like, who cares?
The music's great.
And now you have people likeBenny Blanco that are as popular

(27:51):
.
He's an A-list celebrity justbecause he wrote so many of
these great songs.
And for someone like you thatwants to get into to writing for
other people, and you know foryourself like it opened up a lot
of doors.
It was like the own.
It was like wrestling.
You know it's crazy now,growing up, because I watched
wrestling when I was young andit was like these.

(28:13):
These guys were always incharacter, even when they were
out in the streets, and nowthey're retiring, doing, doing
podcasts, talking about it andwith songwriting.
It's crazy for me to see thetides flip like that.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, it's pretty rare nowadays for someone to
write their own songs.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
Or at least the entire thing.
Everyone's got writers withthem at least.
It's pretty rare.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
It's wild to me because in a genre like country
music, that's the norm.
Wild to me because in like agenre like country music, like
that's the norm, like every songthat you see that's a massive
country song has multiplewriters on the song, you know.
So it's funny that like a genrelike, specifically, hip-hop,
gets such a bad likerepresentation for that because,

(28:54):
like every other, genre that'sjust so common.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
every pop song has like four or five writers on it.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, a lot of times you'll hear like these demos of
the writer singing it and likepitching it to the artist.
Yeah, it's like damn, this isalmost better than the original
song.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
Yeah, dude, it's crazy.
I've been going through theBenny Blanco rabbit hole lately.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
His accolades are crazy.
It was my childhood man.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Like every banger after banger, because I remember
when Kesha hit the scene, whenKaty Perry blew up and then to
find out he basically wroteevery one of the main singles
that she had and likeunbelievable, but like just to
see, he just did a podcast wherehe was like playing these demos
, yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Is it Danny Wright?

Speaker 3 (29:35):
I can't remember 100% .
I wish I could give him credit.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Because it was a great interview.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about and
like the way that they wouldplay it, like they moves, like
Jagger, yeah they didn't havethe words right there, but it
was like you knew.
They knew how many syllablescould fit in so you could kind
of put it together and it itreally peeks into how
songwriting is done, becausefrom from the surface, if you
don't know anything about it, itseems like, oh, that's easy,

(30:02):
they write a song, but there isso much to it.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah, it's writing is , honestly, in my eyes, like I
would just love to be asuccessful writer, because I was
when I was in LA.
One time we were at a studioand I was talking to the
engineer, waiting for everyoneelse to show up, and he was like
, yeah, my homie's a writer.
He wrote, uh, seven rings forAriana Grande or like he wrote

(30:27):
part of it.
So you got like a 15% split,something like that.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
That is insane.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah, those royalties gotta be nice Guess what his
first royalty check was a monthafter it released.
I wouldn't even be able toguess 10 grand 20 grand 500 000
dude immediately.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
I'd be like, yeah, I'm retired, yeah, this is all
I'm doing dude, you don't evenhave to tour anything you know,
you can still go to walmart andnot get harassed by people man
that there's got to be so manywriters around hollywood that
are just filthy rich and no onehas a fucking clue who they are.
That's almost better than beingfamous, because you can still
go out in public, I 100% agree,but you're rich.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Like rich without the fame, like that level of rich.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
without the fame, you get to do what you love you get
to do music.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah, I bet there's some people that probably don't
like it, though.
They're like I'm the dude, butpeople don't recognize that
there's got to be some part ofyou that's like.
I want to have that notoriety.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
I don't know.
I think that's where you get aguy like Benny Blanco.
I mean, I don't mean to keepdick riding, he like found a way
to be like an influencer at thesame time too yeah, good point.
I think it's kind of like itgoes with like writers for tv
also.
You know you, they just they.
They don't get any of thecredit but get the money.

(31:46):
It's just, it's an oddlifestyle, it's more of an
actual job right then being aperformer, you know it's.
It's a different lifestyle, Ican only assume.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
And obviously the royalty checks are fucking nice
yeah, that engineer told me thatand I was like I'm being an
artist, I'm trying to write likeyeah, seriously yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
So what do you?
What's your creative processlike?
When you're starting a song,what do you do like?
Do you have any likeunconventional ways of getting
yourself in a creative mindset?

Speaker 2 (32:22):
I think I mean some of my biggest songs I've written
like at the most random, like Idon't know if you know the song
lovesick it's one of my biggersongs.
I wrote that while I waspushing carts at walmart, like
it's just like.
A lot of the times thecreativity hits me when I'm not
even in the studio and then whenI'm in the studio, my process

(32:45):
it depends on like the beat alot of the time.
Sometimes I'll freestyle,Sometimes I'll write, Sometimes
I'll mumble, Like you said.
You like mumble how manysyllables and then write later.
I'm kind of all over the placewith it, just whatever I'm
feeling in the moment no, that'sawesome, really pinpoint it.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
You know, it just kind of happens exactly.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
No, I think that's where real creative flows to you
.
Don't box yourself in and say Ihave to do this exactly no and
honestly, I think that's where alot of artists get trapped in
this cycle of constantly abusingsubstances I know because
that's like yeah, I have to befucked up in order to be
creative and things like that.
And um, I think not puttingyourself in a box and saying I

(33:27):
have to do this, I think givesyou the benefit of allowing
yourself to 100 experiment inother ways to get yourself
creative, yeah.
But I think you're right,though you have to you almost
have to go through the trenchesand physically, yeah, be putting
yourself in these places thatyou don't really want to be in
order to experience those highsand give yourself the
opportunity like most peoplewouldn't want to be pushing

(33:50):
carts at walmart at all I wasone of those people.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
That shit was ass.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
I did not like that I bet um, yeah, dude, I, I, I
just, I can't even, I can't even, I can't even imagine.
So like are you, you're?
I mean, are you doing musicfull time right now, like what,
what?

Speaker 2 (34:06):
are you doing so right now?
I do music and then I'm inschool, and then I work too.
I'm going to school forphysical therapy.
That's like another hugepassion of mine.
I love fitness stuff like that,love being able to help people,
and then I do music like mostlyas my job, and then if I need

(34:28):
extra money I'll pick up anotherthing like Moana and stuff like
that.
Yeah, but I mean I just figuredit's like with the degree I'll
get, I can do travel work, so ifI need to be in LA I can be
working at the same time.
If the money from the music'snot great at the time, and then
if the money from music is greatat the time, I can just take a

(34:48):
break from the other thing.
I'm just trying to set myselfup in the best position for
success, basically.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
And also I heard this quote awhile ago that really resonated
with me that says if artimitates life, you still have to
have a life.
So, having something outside ofyour hobby, your passion, I
think is really important,because a lot of people get
stuck in the cycle of burnoutand hating what they do, because

(35:13):
they try to focus on just that.
They get mad when maybe thingsdon't go their way or traction
doesn't build as fast as theythought it would and um.
I think a lot of peopleexperience that burnout after
big moments, especially bigmilestones.
You know like for example thatmoment that you had on stage
with logic in miami, yep, I canimagine a lot of people short

(35:34):
term after that maybe wouldn'tstick with it for very long
because that high, how do youcome close to?
Something like that again inthe near future.
It's almost impossible, I knowI get that.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
I do get that a lot, um, and that's like that's a
great quote, because I think youknow, being in school pursuing
a degree and stuff, a lot ofpeople be like, oh, that's
fucking lame, but it's like it'sso refreshing to be able to say
music's.
You know not where I want it tobe right now.
It's like I'll keep working atit, obviously, but I have this

(36:04):
other thing I'm also working on.
So it's not like I'm notsitting there like fuck dude,
what do I do?
Sitting around like just kindof throwing myself a pity party.
It's like, hey, I'm stillworking on other shit and it's
just refreshing and it helps alot writing wise, like with
writer's block, where it's like,well, I just wrote a bunch of
songs.
Now I gotta focus on thisinstead of being like I gotta

(36:26):
make more, more, more, more.
Yeah, then I can come back towriting.
It's like I feel refreshed,clean slate and start writing
some new stuff.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
Um well and like physical if physical therapy you
know being your backup plan tomusic like that's, what a hell
of a fucking backup it's also apassion and it pays goddamn good
, like it's I.
I totally see what you're doing,man.
It makes sense.
You can't put.
You know it's.
It's tough because at certainpoints you have to put all your

(36:56):
eggs in the basket to maybe pushto that next level, but you
also can get caught in a badspot and to find the balance of
still.
It really just comes down tohow much a person's willing to
grind Exactly.
We struggle with it all thetime with the podcast, where we
all have full-time gigs.
Cody's got fucking two kidsthat are under three years old.

(37:17):
Oh shit, yeah you know like wealways want to do more yeah and
we just always we don't alwaysgrind the way we should and we
see it in the numbers.
And if you aren't consistentlyposting, if you're not
consistently just trying tocreate and better your content
like it's just a matter of timebefore, it ends and we've we've.

(37:39):
We took an eight month breakand just trying to come back.
It's, it's not even.
It's not the same.
You know we've had to build,just to get back to an audience
that we had before, when we wereposting all the time.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
And yeah, staying consistent is key 100 and just
staying fresh and engaged.
How do you think yourrelationship with social media
has changed since pursuing musicas a career?

Speaker 2 (38:02):
First, I hate social media.
I mean, I hate it for thereasons of like people who like
to talk shit.
And who was the one that saidpeople love to talk shit on the
Internet?
People got too comfortabletalking shit on the Internet and
not getting punched in the faceor something.
Sounds like a Rogan quote, Ican't remember who it was.

(38:25):
Yeah, just like.
It's such a toxic environment alot of the time.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Well, you can hide behind the screen.
Yeah, exactly, you know.
Maybe isn't even you.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
You know, when you're in an argument with a person,
you know the thing that you cansay that's going to turn this
physical or take it to the nextlevel.
And sometimes you just avoidsaying it and to keep it from
going to that next level.
When there's no consequencethat could immediately happen
and you can type whatever youwant you just go to the meanest
thing, you know.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
It's just like it's fucking so toxic yeah, I find
myself really easily able to notlet negative comments get to me
, but what is your thoughts onseeing hate comments on some
pieces of content that you post?

Speaker 2 (39:09):
A lot of the times it's like.
It's like stuff like tell me tochange shit about songs and
stuff.
It's like like they'll it andit's like did you hear that on
YouTube?
That's just not something youwould do so a lot of the times
it's just.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Just bad advice, basically, yeah, it's just in
one ear, out the other.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
But the big thing I don't like about social media is
when the views aren't as great.
It's so mentally draining andyou kind of feel like shit.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah I, it's so mentally draining and you kind
of feel like shit.
Yeah, I think the only commentsthat really get to me are
comments that do have some truthto it.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, you know where it's like a little bit they do
you know, I'll, I'll.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
I will find myself, like you know, being in a grind
where it's like, like sam said,we we'd have full-time jobs too.
So you know, it's like there'llbe some weeks where I just
don't have enough time to likecut clips out of the full-length
podcast that do, and so likeI'll just post a not so good
clip.
And even I know, like this isnot my best work and some of the
comments would be like what'slike one recently, like not

(40:04):
everyone should have a podcastor make podcast equipment more
expensive.
And then I'm thinking like damn, he's right, like that was
actually a really bad piece ofcontent in general, like those
are the ones that sting like theones that do have some truth,
or like that align with yourthought on it too 100 it's like,

(40:25):
yeah, he's right, yeah,sometimes it keeps you in check
though it does, it does roundedfor sure.
Yeah, definitely, but I thinkthat's also part of what makes
it better is going through thoseperiods of, like the, getting a
hundred views on a post andthen the next one gets a million
, and then it's like okay, thisis awesome.
Like there's nothing that canreplace that high of like a real
win, you know.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
And that can't be healthy.
No, not at all, because, likeI've, been stuck when we're
popping and our clips are going,especially when they had the
old TikTok home screen whereevery notification would like
take up the whole screen.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Refresh new screen where every notification.
Would like take up the wholescreen yeah, refresh, new, old
page refresh, and I would justwatch it and watch it and it's
like dude.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
This is sickening.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
I, yeah, it just like .
Give me another hit, give meanother.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
Check it again in 10 minutes.
We have a couple bomb and it'slike what the fuck is happening
I've had the same shit happen.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
You get in your own head about it.
Oh, it's not good, I'm justdoing it, just to do it, you
know whatever, how do you?
Do you have like a contentstrategy?
Like, do you try to employ likesome sort of ideology behind
how you're posting what you'reposting?
Is there a strategy behind it?

Speaker 2 (41:26):
I've tried to come up with strategies and then I see
someone set their phone up onthe counter and take a 15 second
video and it gets four millionviews it's like it's not that
deep, we're just gonna postsongs people like it.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
People like it when you want, how you want it's like
I don't have the.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
I'm an independent artist.
I always have been.
I don't have the money to pay afull-time videographer, a
full-time um editor.
It's like I, it's me and myphone and a tripod.
Like you, don't got that money,junkie money yeah, no, because
that that label money is fuckingcrazy yeah yeah, that's insane.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Yeah, and that's the thing too.
It's like um, how many peopledo you think get propped up
because they have the money toput behind something like that?
I know I mean, yeah, there's alot of people that you see even
in, like the trending playlistson Spotify, and now come to find
out like a lot of theseplaylists on Spotify are
pay-to-play.
You can just pay enough money tobe in these playlists and

(42:22):
you'll automatically get allthese listeners and get this
attention, regardless if youdeserve it or not.
So there's some aspect that youcan replace talent with money.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Even the Grammys are pay-to-play, really, oh hell
yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
I don't even watch the Grammys are pay-to-play,
really.
Oh hell, yeah, I don't evenwatch the.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Grammys Number one hits on Billboard pay-to-play.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
That's insane to me.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
But it works.
It does, it's marketing moneyit is.
I mean, it's money to advertisefor the song.
It's like if you have abusiness and you buy a Billboard
and a lot ofac company and theysee this hvac and they need
their ducks clean at their house, they're gonna just call

(43:02):
whoever they just saw.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
if they want to listen to a song, they're gonna
just listen to the one that, whoyou know, spotify gives to them
yeah, a big thing I've hadpeople tell me is like bro, if,
like, if you had the samemarketing as like postone, you
would be sky high right now.
It's like, well, I don't.
So you got to figure out a wayto do it, but it's hard to

(43:25):
compete with these labels.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
It's a dangerous game because I could see a lot of
people putting themselves into alot of debt to try to do that.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Well, so a lot of artists fall for the 360 deal
where you get offered.
A lot of artists fall for the360 deal where you get offered.
They're like here's $600,000that we're going to give you if
you sign right here.
Most people are like hell yeah,especially artists that don't
have a lot of money.
That's $600,000?
Come on.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
And so, from what I understand, a lot of those deals
are structured where they getevery bit of money that you make
until that is paid off, correct, okay.
Then you start to make money,so it's basically a loan, and
then they still get a percentageafter that.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Correct.
Wow, and usually theirpercentage is way higher than
yours Because they're taking therisk.
Yeah, so the real money artistsmake is on tour, because labels
can't really touch your tourmoney.
But like, yeah, but, um, likeyeah.
I mean there was a thing of onthe internet about snoop dogg.
He only made sixty thousanddollars for one of like his

(44:22):
biggest hits.
Because the label gets a split,the featuring artist gets a
split, the producers get a split, the engineers get a split, so
at the end of the day it's likeyou get ten percent of your own
song yeah, and I would imagine aguy like snoop dogg you know
there could be 30 peopleinvolved with a song, exactly
and then it's like four writers,yeah, four engineers.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Oh my god.
Yeah, that's insane.
And I do know what it costs toget snoop dogg as an appearance,
and his appearance fee is notlight nowadays, I'm sure it's
not.
I can't imagine yeah, it is notlight.
I did actually get to just dophotos for this last uh stop
that.
He was in hinkley, minnesota,here last august or september
and so just getting to be arounda tour crew like yeah, snoop

(45:06):
dogs, is insane I mean like the,the knowledge like the speed
that they work.
It's like to set up a set likewhat he had, even though it was
so simple.
It just is insane to me thedynamic of touring.
Have you ever?
I mean, how do you get startedin getting into like a tour

(45:27):
schedule?
How do you coordinate a tour ofyour own once you get a big
bass following A?

Speaker 2 (45:33):
lot of.
That's the label you know'llgive you like a like someone,
like a tour manager, um, andthen basically what you do?
You just find what cities arelistening to you the most,
schedule the tours there, but alot of people don't realize how
hard it is to actually selltickets oh, I bet.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Well, that's a big controversy right now because a
lot of these huge artists willhave big streaming numbers but
they can't sell tickets becausethere's not a lot of real fans
like some of the guys.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
When audios would blow up on tiktok, it would get
their songs, would haveliterally a billion listens, but
couldn't fill a 500 personvenue right you know, and it's.
It's got to be crazy, becauseonline, if you're getting a
billion streams on your songonline, you are famous as fuck

(46:22):
but, then out on the streets,it's just.
It's just a different game,especially with the way the
algorithms are tailored today.
Like it's crazy I'll seesomething where that in my head
it's as viral as can be, butit's all the same people that
have the same interest in me.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
I'll ask a buddy that has a different algo and
they're like I have no idea whatyou're talking about yeah, and
I think that makes it way hardernowadays too, because you're
reaching a very specific nicheaudience and, um, I can't
remember what the statistic is,but there's uh, something in
entertainment right now wherethere's a large percentage of
people that don't share, youknow, specific interests, even

(46:58):
with their close friends.
So, uh, this is becoming morepopular on YouTube, like a lot
of the channels that I subscribeto, like I don't share a lot of
this with my friends, I justconsume that myself, like
they'll come out with.
There's channels that I am justlike diehard for, like I watch
every single episode, but I'lltry to talk to with someone
about it and they're like I haveno idea who that is.

(47:18):
I'm like, how do you not know?
Like they have millions ofsubscribers?
How do you not know who thisperson is?
Yeah, I never thought about itlike that, but there, I mean, it
happens all the time oninstagram.
I'll see, I'll scroll through avideo and I'll see, like, oh my
gosh, this video has like amillion likes to click on the
page, 10 million followers.
I'm like, how do?
How have I never heard thisname before?
10 million people like thisperson enough to follow them,
and I've never even heard thisname.

(47:39):
I know it's crazy.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
So like world of t-shirts, joshua block oh yeah
he is all over my algorithm Imade a joke someone.
We got like mcdonald's at workor something for the crew and
the bit.
Some fries fell out of the bagand I was like put the fries in
the bag and not one person knewwhat I was talking about.
I was like what?
You guys don't see this everyday.

(48:02):
They're like no, we have noidea.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
And how do?

Speaker 3 (48:05):
you, how do you describe world of t-shirts to
somebody Like?

Speaker 1 (48:09):
that's not an easy sell.
You just have to see ityourself, yeah, and talk about a
hell of a come-up story.
I mean, um, yeah, if you had todescribe him to someone, what,
what would you say?

Speaker 3 (48:20):
like some, a slightly on the spectrum in tiktok
influencer, you know, honestlyalcoholic it's sad, it's, it's
almost sad, because when youstart describing him like you
feel bad for him because he's ina weird spot where he's got
this manager named Mr Based.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
That dude's a piece of shit.
He's a literal piece of shit.

Speaker 3 (48:42):
He was just in prison .
He's just a known loser.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
And he's just exploiting him, making him rage,
baiting him and just streamingright in his face to get clicks.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Oh, God, I saw this live stream of World of Shirts
just punching his own face.
Yeah.
I only made 400k this yearpunching himself in the face,
dude it's so sad because what'sgoing on it's like it's not okay
.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
You know he obviously is on the spectrum and he's
crashing out constantly, but forsome reason you just cannot
stop watching it like it's just.
It's world-class tv, dude, thatis where tv is now it's
unbelievable, I mean yeah shoutout josh man, I know you're
listening yeah, josh and kanyeare two biggest listeners.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Yeah, what are your thoughts on the whole kanye
controversy going on right now?
I mean talk about a brilliantmind, but whoa when you position
yourself in?

Speaker 2 (49:40):
a light like that.
That's insane I just I don'tknow what how blurred the line
is between mental illness andjust trying to get people to
notice like yeah, you know whatI mean?
Because he's always been thetype that doesn't like he just,
he'll just while out and do somecrazy shit, yeah.
And then it's like, oh, I'mdropping an album.
Yes, this is like what the fuck, dude, super bowl commercial.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Takes out a super bowl commercial and the only
shirt on there is a swastika.
It's.
It's like what are you doing?

Speaker 2 (50:10):
yeah and then it makes it hard to like listen to
his music still, and like kanyeis a huge inspiration for me,
like uh college dropout was mybeautiful, dark, twisted fantasy
is my favorite album of alltime.
Yeah, and then it's like I'mlistening to it.
It's like this dude like rocksswastikas.
Now, what are you?

Speaker 3 (50:27):
doing.
I mean I was.
I was just looking at some ofhis, his music and from 2000,
early 2000s to about 2015, likeif he would have just retired
there, he would have gone downas a music god you know, like if
he wouldn't have done all likehe did crazy things before that,
but it was nothing too wildpeople just kind of.
But you know, in the last 10years it's like I can't.

(50:49):
I love kanye, I can't defendhim anymore.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
It's done, I've given up it's like I'm still gonna
listen.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
I'm guilty pleasure listen to his music, but I'm not
going to openly fucking loveKanye.
I know.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
It's sad Because he honestly like his early albums.
Like you're right, if he wouldhave retired at that point, one
of the greatest to ever do it.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
Yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've streamed
the song.
Can't tell me nothing yeahthousands of times.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
That used to be like the song I would listen to like
pre-gaming or like hyping myselfup to go do something it was
always can't tell me nothingyeah, and then, if you like,
watch those videos of him in thestudio sampling and shit like
that.
Yeah, he was a genius, yeah his, his documentary on netflix.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
I've watched it three times the dude's a genius it's
just sad to see crashing outbecause like he was going to go
down as one of the best all time, just I wouldn't even say like
artist, but just influential inthe music game, like, and now I
mean I don't.
I wonder how people are goingto talk about him in 20 30 years

(51:52):
yeah because, like 808s andheartbreak changed the rap game.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Yeah, like he's just always been like at the
forefront of changing the faceof music and now it's like how
do you, how do you, how did weget to this point?

Speaker 1 (52:05):
like it's sad yeah, I think I mean.
With that being said, how doyou want people to remember jay
zole 20 years from now?

Speaker 2 (52:15):
honestly, I just want people to find some kind of
comfort in my music, like theycould look back and be like,
yeah, that song got me throughsome shit.
I was doing a show it mighthave been Jake's, actually that
you guys were at.
I met a fan and he came up andhe was like yo man, I'm a huge

(52:35):
fan, you know, I love your music.
And he's like, if I'm gonna becompletely honest, like some of
your, like you, you saved mylife.
Like you, I was suicidal, mygirl left and your music was
like the main thing that got methrough it and like that moment
changed like everything for me.
Um, it, just that alone isworth more than any dollar

(52:59):
amount, any amount of fame youcould give me.
Like my music was enough toimpact this guy's life in a
positive way and that's what Iwant.
I don't care I I would be finewith not being the most famous
guy on earth, but if I couldhelp someone get through a
shitty point in their life withmy music, that's enough for me.
Honestly.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
Damn.
Very well said.
I think mine would be.
I want to remember Cody as themost fit, handsome guy that.

Speaker 3 (53:29):
I've ever met.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
And he was so nice and so humble, so down to earth,
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
Yeah, yeah, dude, and so humble, so down to earth,
I'm just kidding.
Yeah, yeah, dude, I meanhonestly that's.
It's one of those things whereit's like music you can touch
people in such a different way Imusic is always like I've I've
always felt the connection to itand how I can just get instant
goosebumps from a song yeah,it's different, like it's.
It is amazing what it can do forpeople emotionally and like,

(54:00):
like you were saying, like Ithink a songs, like certain
songs throughout my life, I canrelate back to a certain time,
whether it was good or bad,where I'll hear it now and I'll
be like, oh man, this one reallyhelped me.
I remember put this one washitting every time I got in the
car at this point and like then,other songs like my hype songs,
like can't tell me nothingthat's literally like one of

(54:22):
mine.
Or first day out by t grizzlyif I have, if I have to get
hyped up for something likeserious that I'm doing.
That's the last thing I'lllisten to where it's like I'm
just getting ready.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
Well, there's a lot of songs that I can think of,
that I know exactly where I was,what was around me, who I was
with when I first heard thatsong, and like that's always
what I associate it with.
And so there's a lot of songsfrom like a certain time period
that I can just remember thatthat was such a good time period
that all those songs are stillin heavy rotation on my Spotify.

(54:53):
You know things like thatrotation on my Spotify.
You know things like that.
So it's like when you can reachpeople at a certain time in
their life and it's it's alwaysjust so different.
It's always a time and a place,because that's where you get
some of these songs that are wayahead of their time, because
you realize, like, this is thesound that I really like, that
you find, at a different pointit just resonates more,

(55:15):
resonates better, and um, yeah,it a different point, it just
resonates more, resonates better, and um, yeah, it's.
It's just such an interestingdynamic because how you create
it and what you create is somuch different than how people
can perceive it and they kind ofput their own spin on it, I
know or interpret it a differentway.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Music's always been like my therapy, basically um,
it's like when I was goingthrough shit.
You know super low points in mylife, just knowing that the
stuff that I created in thattime where I was at a low point
can help someone else at a lowpoint.
You know that, like I said,it's worth more than any dollar
amount to have someone come upand say you know, you saved my

(55:52):
life with your music.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
I mean that's life with your music.
I mean, that's Well, I think,now more than ever, the barrier
to entry to doing anything youwant to do, especially creative
as far as content.
As far as music, anything islower than ever.
Yeah, what would you say as apiece of advice to younger kids
or really anyone just trying toget involved with music in

(56:18):
general?
Yeah, on how to start and howto frame your mindset, on how to
get some level of traction yeah, so I'm a pretty good example
of this.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
Um, I started, like I said, where I started um, no
connections to anybody in themusic industry.
Literally just me, a laptop anda mic.
Um, you just gotta not give afuck what anyone thinks of you.
Um, because people are gonnahate on you, especially when
you're, you know, starting out.
People are gonna be like thisdude sucks, he's never going
anywhere high school people lovehating in high school.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
Hell yeah, they love hating bro, even now.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Oh man, dude, they're ruthless, yeah, but um, you,
just you.
You can't care what peoplethink of you, and you just gotta
do it.
If you love it, do it.
I mean, why wouldn't you?
You get you're alive one time,why would you not If?

Speaker 3 (57:07):
you don't do it out of fear of what other people are
gonna think you're justcheating yourself you know A
hundred percent, 100%.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
I mean, if I was thinking this like I can't think
back to a time where I rememberseeing like someone I didn't
know in public do something andI was like I'm going to remember
that for 20 years I'm nevergoing to forget what that person
did.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Yeah, actually I got to read you this quote that I
just sent to Sam the other day.
This is in a previous episode.
We were just talking aboutanxiety and personal development
.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Because he doesn't have anxiety.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
No, I definitely do, me and the other guy that we're
on.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
We're trying to explain to him how it works.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
I've dealt with it pretty bad I definitely have
anxiety, but I think I'm sort ofone of those cases where
anxiety is like I use it to fuelme rather than use it to stop.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
He doesn't have the depression paired.
Yeah, it's not like depression,anxiety.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
It's like, yeah, um, you know, like in like a
constant need to feel like I'moverachieving anxiety yeah keep
pushing because of the fear ofbeing complacent with where I am
and that, I think, deters myability to be happy with where I
am at any.
I do with that.
You know what I mean.
So I sent this to sam.
It says anxiety tip next timeyou cringe over something

(58:21):
embarrassing.
Or next time you cringe oversome embarrassing moment you had
years ago, try to rememberother people's embarrassing
moments exactly you can't, canyou?
that's because you're the onlyembarrassing human to exist.
Everyone else is alwaysthinking about how cringy you
are that's funny, you know so,but but I mean going off of what
you said, like you cannotremember something cringy that

(58:42):
other people would say.
But there is like a handful ofmoments I can remember in my
life and I'm like I still thinkabout, like randomly when I'm
laying in bed, like why?

Speaker 2 (58:51):
are those wars?
Why did I say?

Speaker 1 (58:52):
that your heart just dropped they probably think I'm
a loser.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
I will ruin my day off of something I said when I
was 16.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Yeah, Me too, I know Me too, yeah, so I mean, you
know what it really comes downto is like I think everyone is
more critical of themselves thaneveryone else.
100%.
You will remember way more thananyone else will about yourself
and you just gotta.
You just gotta do your ownthing.

(59:22):
You just gotta only focus onwhat you got going on.
Yeah, and I think that's reallythe way to succeed, and I think
that's kind of like the themethat we see in people that we
talk to.
That's like anyone who hasachieved any level of success,
whether whether it's high or low, always has this mentality of
you can't let other people'sthoughts get in the way of what

(59:45):
you have going on.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
You just got to realize like a lot of the huge
reason people hate on you orhate on other people is because
they got some deep rootedinsecurities themselves.
Like a lot of people that hatedon me were probably at some
point like I'd want to do music,that'd be kind of cool.
And they see someone else doingit or like a podcast.
Like oh fuck, I would want todo a podcast.

(01:00:06):
They're doing it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
Fuck them, that shit sucked mine would have been way
better.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly yeah, and I think that's
um, I was just actuallylistening to a podcast talking
about like the root of passiveaggression and like what passive
aggression is, and all passiveaggression stems from something
that you see in yourself thatyou don't like about yourself
and pointing it out to thatperson.
Yeah, and to them it doesn'tseem like that, but it seems

(01:00:30):
like you're only coming at them,you know.
So I mean and that just goesright back to internet comments
you know you can't let thatimpact what you have going on,

(01:00:50):
but it does hurt when there's asense of truth to it it does.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
But those, those people that left the comment,
probably swiped away and forgotyou even existed right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Yeah, they're not even going to remember the piece
of content they comment exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
But I'll be thinking about that for weeks oh 100 yeah
, I think you know, going off ofwhat you said, with just being
yourself, you know it's, it's acliche, but especially in
today's, the way that theinternet's working today is,
people are sick of all this fake, orchestrated,
hollywood-orchestrated bullshit.
They just want genuine peopleand the genuine like.

(01:01:23):
Look at someone like Jelly Roll, someone that just pours his
heart out there and gives thesecrazy speeches and people just
love him.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
He's a good artist.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
He's not the best artist you ever heard, but right
now he's at the top becausepeople love the guy, you know,
and I I think just being genuineis everything 100.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
I agree.
I think that's a a reason a lotof people get attracted to my
music.
A lot of it's like aboutheartbreak.
You know a lot of shit thatguys don't really talk about.
Um, heartbreak, anxiety, shitlike that, and I think that's a
huge reason why a lot of peopletry to come to my music.
Um, it's just I, I talk aboutit cause it's like why wouldn't

(01:02:05):
we?

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
100%.
Well, jay dude, I want to thankyou so much for coming on.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Yeah, Is there anything?

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
is there anything that you want to plug before we
get out of here?

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
uh, shout out my boy manny for cutting my hair.
You got me right easy.
Cuts in saint cloud.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Hell yeah all right, well, go follow jay zole on
every platform.
It's the same name oneverything, right, yeah,
j-a-e-z-o-l-e go stream hismusic on spotify go follow him
on instagram go to youtube,madden 24.
Go throw a throwback listen tohim, go back and watch the live
stream of the Bitcoin Festival,where he was on Logic's set.

(01:02:40):
I think just go support him.
Go support him and we'll seeyou next week.