February 15, 2022 • 31 mins
Dean Norris takes listeners behind the scenes of the seminal hit, “Breaking Bad,” and shares some very personal stories of his own journey when he sits down with The Creative Coalition CEO Robin Bronk. Norris talks about working with the DEA while shooting “Breaking Bad,” how his character evolved over the course of the show, his passion for being an activist, and personal stories from the playground of his youth.
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(00:07):
This is On the Edge, apodcast series from the Creative Coalition featuring conversations
with an edge and chats with personalitiesfrom the world of entertainment. Now here's
your host, Creative Coalition CEO RobinBronk. Welcome, Welcome, we are
on the Edge today. I'm Robin, and thank you for tuning in.
(00:29):
Joining us today is SAG Award winningactor Dean Norris, who you know and
love from the Emmy nominated series UnitedStates of Al and the multi Emmy Award
winning series Breaking Back. Let's welcomeDean to the hot seat. Come on
down and you hail from Indiana,right I do. I grew up in
(00:52):
South ben Indiana, stayed there untilI was eighteen, graduated in the head
off the college. I went toHarvard University Economics, pot to, philosophy,
and history essentially. It was awonderful, wonderful time. It was
great people and I learned a lotpeople. I was like, well,
what did you you know? Whatdid you learn it for? What do
you use it for? Him like, I used it to be intelligent,
(01:14):
you know, that's to be wellread. When did you decide to join
this circus? I'd always been involvedas a young story. Even at five
years old, I was doing playsand certainly loved it. I kind of
wanted to be a musician. Iplayed guitar and I had a band,
but at some point I realized thatI wasn't good enough to really make any
(01:36):
money in that field and kind ofswitched over to, you know, the
first cousin acting and did a lotof plays at Harvard. Although there was
no drama program, we had extracurricularIt was really really quite fun, and
I got into the Royal Academy ofDramatic Art after college, and I was
like, you know, that's agood confidence builder, and went to London
(01:57):
and studied for a year and thencame back to work with the American Repertory
Theater, which was at Harvard atthe time. That's Robert Brustein who really
made the Yale Drama School what itwas. Robert Brustein had moved from Yale
to Harvard right around nineteen eighty andI started college eighty one, so it
was a professional theater right there.I was under studying the big guys and
(02:19):
taking little roles and plays. Gotmy equity card and said, hey,
let's give it a shot. Wentto New York for literally three months,
I got my first job, andthen decided to head out to California.
I did eight tables for six monthsin LA because when I got here there
was the first writers strike that Iwas aware of, like eighty seven or
eighty eight, and nothing was goingon. And then when they started auditioning
(02:45):
again, I got leaked weapon too, and that made me so I didn't
have to work anymore other than beingan actor. When you went off to
Harvard, did you tell your parentsare going to be in the arts and
philosophy? How are they about thiscrazy life? Neither of my parents had
gone the college, and they didnever put any pressure on me. But
I certainly was aware that I couldmake a lot of money as an investment
(03:05):
banker or doctor, a lawyer orwhatever people do when they go out of
Harvard, and kind of felt myown pressure to take care of my parents
a little bit. But they werethey were all over it. You know.
My dad had a band. Hewas like Adam Sandler and the Wed
He'd saying, so he always,you know, wanted to have that kind
of dream of being entertainment, youknow what I'm saying. And they were
(03:28):
excited. I mean, I thinkthey were probably nervous and they didn't let
me know, but they were certainlynot pushing me to do anything else.
And that helped a lot, havinga safe space. And luckily, you
know, I got leath the weapontoo, and that for a boy from
Indiana that was making it right there, I was all of a sudden in
one of the hottest movies of thesummer. And then I got total recall
(03:49):
and I did Hard to Kill.I did like five to six action movies,
you know. I remember very goingto meet Dick Donner, who was
the director leaf Upon Too at WarnerBrothers. They're like, oh, out
Order Brothers is a big office everything. Basically that's talked to me for a
while. But yeah, you looklike you're a cop, and I knew
you. He hired me, soI played another cover cop on that lead
(04:11):
them too, And it was likeback in the day when they were making
a movie. It was like fourmonths of work. So what was that
feeling like when you first went outto the Warner Brothers lot. I mean,
I find it really exciting to goover there. Yeah, I'm working
there now. That's where my newshow shoots. Actually, Yeah, and
I walked past the his old office. He's not in the business. He's
(04:33):
pretty tired now. But you know, it was. It was spectacular.
I think I have somewhere, youknow, I'm a saver kind of guy.
I think I have somewhere my originalcar pass that they gave me,
um that I saved. I certainlysaved it whenever I did a pilot.
But I think I saved twelve themtwo as well. But the time Dick
Donner was huge, and and youknew it was a movie with Mel Gibson.
(04:56):
I remember the first day set.You know, it was a sad
call. I get there. Iwas early, you know, I'm in
my little cubbyhole trailer and uh,you know, I didn't. I was
all ready to go, ready togo, ready to go. And they're
like okay, you know, andthe eight o'clock combs, and nine o'clock
comes and and nothing's going on,and lunch comes. I hadn't worked,
(05:16):
and I'm like, all right,okay, that's the other thing where lunch
was. It was a Friday,so lunch was filet and lobster, okay.
And I'm like yeah, and I'mlike really, you know, yeah,
they do lobster every Friday for lunch. And I remember sitting there all
day and I didn't work, andI happen to have an acquaintance that was
also just randomly on the movie,and I'm like, dude, what's the
deal? He goes man. Youknow, by the time it takes them,
(05:40):
the amount of money these guys getpaid, by the time it takes
them to sit down and figure outif they eat you or not, they
just have you on the set casethey do. So there would be,
you know, days where I wouldjust sit there for twelve hours and that
work or day's read sit there forsix hours and they call you in need
to do with you know, andstart working on the scene. I mean,
that's what my movies back in theday took six months. They took
six months to film from from beginningto end. People forget that because now
(06:03):
they filmed six weeks. But itwas great and every every you know,
you just sit there every day gettingpaid the staking a lobster and then run
around with a gun and act likea cop. A little bit. That's
worth a degree. They don't talkabout that in the Royal Academy. I
bet they should. What was thatmoment when you thought, let your life
(06:29):
change because you started getting recognized.What was that moment for you? Yeah,
well that was I mean a littlebit in town. I was kind
of considered a pretty steady working actorfor ever since lead the way I did,
Like I said, total reco Iwould good jobs pretty steadily. The
first thing that really helped me onTV was I got the first season of
(06:53):
NYPD Blue as a recurring That wasmy first kind of recurring TV job.
But clearly after about the third seasonto Breaking Bad, things really changed because
it started to become this culturally justyou know, went on to just become
this really big, culturally iconic show. You remember the first time that he
(07:14):
started to be stopped? I did. I actually remember because I was eating
with my parents. It like itjust the first couple episodes came out,
and I remember the waiter U andyou know, I was having dinner with
my parents and the waiter said,oh my god, so are you are
you? Are you that? Ilike? Uh, I think then that
guy guy are you thinking of?And some guy that knows you money or
(07:36):
what? And he said no.I you know, I saw that niche
show. I thought it was reallygood and I was like, oh,
okay, people watch TV shows whenyou're on them. Uh So that was
the first time, and then itjust after the after the third season,
it really started getting PopEd. TheirNetflix picked it up and everyone started watching
on Netflix, and then it became, uh, you know, you became
(07:59):
you know, well known. Butbut for me, I kind of went
in from me. It wasn't likezero to sixty because I was kind of
already cruising it about twenty twenty five, you know, because I would get
some stuff and you know, Weapontwo is a big enough movie that people
would recognize you from it when itwas out, and then it kind of
just shifted into into into sixty andthen later into hyper space as the show
(08:22):
came to an end. So well, talking about fans and stuff, I
mean, one of the things thatyou do with the Creative Coalition is advocacy
work, which is tremendous and youknow, I always, I always get
the warning that you know, whenyou're doing advocacy work, half the fans
might not like what you're doing.And I think that takes a lot of
(08:43):
courage. That's something that's on theedge. It takes courage. Creative Coalition
has recently taken on the issue ofobesity, that obesity is this last of
the shame and blame diseases. Ithas stigmas. It's sort of like mental
illness was ten years ago. Andwhen we took this campaign on, and
we recently did a PSA about obesitybeing a co morbidity of COVID and very
(09:09):
serious, and I talked to youabout people feeling like they were alone,
and you very graciously agreed to doit. It's kind of a hot bet
issue. Why it's a shameful thing, I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm
not sure why it is considered whatit is. I don't know, because
it could be a tough thing,you know. I mean, I know
my mom struggled with it. Shetried hard. You know. It wasn't
(09:33):
like she was just a lazy personor something. Did she talk about it?
Did you ever have to deal withit with her? She was a
proud woman and she was a hardwork for her and a really great soul.
But I mean, that's sure.It was aware that the kids maybe
make fun of it, you know, And I think I've probably gotten a
(09:54):
few fist bites well, because Iwouldn't accept anybody's saying something about it,
you know, and she never reallydwelt on it, and she wasn't super
obesed, but she certainly struggled withher weight. You know, it was
certainly an issue that I saw howit could affect people, and that you
know, it was an easy thingfor people to you know, kids are
(10:15):
mean, man, and easy thingfor people to make fun of. You
know. So it's an issue thatI kind of understood from a personal standpoint.
You know, there's ways to behealthy, and it's good and it's
important. But it's like you gethigh blood pressure. I mean, you
know, some people have it,some people don't. I mean, you
can try to control it and youcan try to do things. There is
an element that you were born witha certain DNA that makes you skinnier.
(10:39):
We had a nutritionist talking we weredoing a writer's workshop on this, and
we just learned that seventy percent ofyour body is pretty much cooked in the
womb, meaning that whatever you're goingto be right. And they say that's
true for like cholesterol all that stuff. I mean, you either have high
cholesterold in caees or you don't,no matter, even if you don't eat
(11:00):
any eggs or butter, or whateverthe thing is, most of it is
already cooked in for you know,all those kinds of things, so the
same thing they're absit, I think, And you know, yeah, okay,
so you work on the thirty percentyou can, but that's only thirty
percent. Was there any stigma attachedto it growing up? I mean,
you said, kids made fun ofyour mom sometimes, so it wasn't a
(11:22):
lot, but the fact that ithappened at all made you understand that it
was, you know, it wasan issue. And people judge you by
your initial looks, you know,and that's one of the things they judge
you negatively about. So I don'tknow it was a stigma as much as
(11:43):
I certainly remember it being okay,you know, clocking that in my mind
that it was something that society didn'treally didn't really accept very well or understand
or understand. And I think that'swhere we are now, is is trying
to to grow to understand. Andit's it's funny, obesity is this only
(12:07):
disease that we say embrace it,don't you know? And a lot of
times or you will say embrace it, we wouldn't say that, but you
know, every other disease we'd saygo get help. There is help.
Yeah, but it's a long storythat I wanted to say thank you for
for being part of this PSA thatwe hope helped change lives, to bring
(12:31):
um bring some some hope to peoplewith us. So it was, it
was, it's all. I thinkit's always courageous to get involved in a
public service campaign. I remember,really early on in my life, as
in early on being high school,always thinking that if I ever had any
(12:52):
fame at all, that it wouldbe my duty in some ways to to
speak for people who don't don't getto be spoken for. And I've always
felt that since I was in highschool and I realized that, and I
got it more when I came outhere and realized the amount of money that
people make, and you know,and you realize there's these people in Indiana
(13:16):
and other places, of course,but who I grew up with who will
never have a voice. And it'ssomehow, if you're the guy who makes
it out of there, you havean obligation and a duty to use your
voice because they're never going to geta chance to use it. There's never
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going to be a boy who camefrom two parents who didn't go to college,
who were hard workers and all thatstuff, and they're not going to
get talked to with on a podcastor or in a show. So if
you don't speak for them, whowill, you know what I'm saying.
And I always thought that true withthe from an economic point of view and
(14:01):
financial point of view too, whichis why it always kills me when people
always try to you know, weapp about Hollywood actors and the elite,
and I'm like, every factor Iknow, most of them came from no
money and they're certainly not out oftouch. They're really in touch, you
know, because they came from placeswhere their dad wasn't the head of CEO
(14:24):
of Johnson and Johnson, or theythey weren't this or that. They most
of the actors I know came fromhumble beginning. I realized that's you.
Most of the actors I know whoare successful came from hard working parents.
Might have had more than one job, and you worked hard for it.
Yeah, So it always kills mewhen when I hear this, you know,
(14:45):
oh, elite out of touch.It's like, oh, you know,
how many of you guys talking aboutelite out of touch? Weighted tables
or or or you know where Iworked at fourteen. I had washing dishes
at fourteen. You know, soI think again, I know where that's
where who those people are and wherethat comes, and you know, so
I think it's important to speak speakfor those people. I mean, that's
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what the creative colosition stands for,is you have a superpower and our members
are actors, writers, producers,directors. Yeah right. You guys always
say that who have this this platformand you you know, you're the What
you just said is the poster childfor exactly what we're trying to do is
realize that you have this platform,realize that you have the superpower. Um.
(15:30):
But on the other hand, togetting back into the dan of it
all with Breaking Bad, I mean, that dealt with issues, and it
dealt with current real life issues thatpeople face or could face, and it,
you know, it's very in ain a very edgy sort of way.
What was your audition like for that? It was just a straight up
(15:54):
I will grant them. I rememberreading the pilot and oh my god,
this role is perfect for me.I really I had just missed another pilot
about six months prior, and Iwas exactly it was like this is going
to change my life. And Ididn't get it, and I was still
kind of nursing my wounds a littlebit. Uh, And it was like,
(16:14):
oh man, here here's another pilotthat comes along that I just loved
and I knew I would be perfectfor the role. But I was like,
I was perfect for the last role. But it ain't great that you
didn't get that at a role exactly. That pilot never went I mean they
filmed it, never, it neverwent on to be a series, so
I wouldn't have been available. Umso yeah, which is you know,
(16:36):
one of the oldest kind of rulesor or things of acting is that you
know what I guess in life too. I mean, you miss one opportunity,
another one comes along. So Ijust went in and I auditioned for
Vince Gilligan straight up, and Icould tell he liked me. We did
it a couple of times and thatwas about it. Next next call I
got was they want to make adeal with you, and uh, and
(16:57):
and take you in front of thenetwork and UH did that and uh we
were on our way. How manyyears did you play Hank? How many
years? Was that? Six years? And tell me about like the Hank
that you first met in the Hankthat you left. Yeah, well you
first meet him, he's a he'sa blow ard, and he's a real
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kind of he was kind of thecomic relief and kind of a real,
um, you know, macho toughguy. Um. And it was really
interesting because in the third season thenyou see him break down, um,
kind of out of a PTSD situation, and he became a completely different guy
(17:40):
after that third season. During thethird season, through the third season and
the last half of Hank four orfive and six was all pretty depressing.
He was he was a broken manand he had to somehow try to find
find his life again. And um, I remember, yeah, and that
(18:03):
was actually pretty depressed in real lifeat the time. Part I don't know
the partlem because of that, Ilost my parents during Breaking Bad, both
separately, both about three years apart. So by the time I ended Breaking
Bad, I was an orphan.And uh, it was it was it
somehow charmically weirdly matched the problems thatHank was going through. Just the fact
(18:26):
that he was going through problems.Uh like it. It was in it.
I was also going through some depressionin my own life because having lost
my parents and stuff, and itwas a strange time. So it kind
of maybe affected and probably in someway helped the character at the last last
three, last few seasons. Whatwas your hardest episode, I'm breaking bad
(18:48):
for you to do. Yeah,Um, you know, I don't know
if I would call any of themhard. They were certainly, Um,
they were just it was so fullof stuff, you know, And for
me, the last the first episodeof the final season was a tough one,
and that's when Brian Cranston and Ikind of I confront him about him
(19:11):
being this uh, this guy,and he was directing that episode as well,
and I remember we worked hard,We worked, We worked really hard
trying to find the right tone.It's a scene in a garage where I
kind of closed the garage and Ibasically confront him and that took That was
a tough day he was directing.It was it was like the climax of
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what's been going on for about fiveyears. Hank finally finds out who who
Walt is and he confronts him.So that probably that episode, the first
episode of the final season, wasprobably the toughest. Did you did you
learn about a lot about the drugtrade, and it was just did you
have to study for it? Wedid. We had we had the full
(20:00):
support of the DA, and theykind of you know, came in and
were teaching us about just about differentelements of But that was more for the
producers and writers, I think,so that they could you know, correctly
write it. Um. But theytaught him, you know, the basics
of the mechanics of how the thingthings are, how the math is made,
and stuff like that. And Icertainly had a lot of DA advisors
(20:22):
around UM, so we could talkabout various elements of policing and things like
that. Plus we got to golike into their DA. They have training
facilities and they're like I was like, oh, yeah, call me in.
Got the kind of shoot guns andpretend that we're taking you know,
going into a building and doing allthis kind of stuff. So you've been
(20:45):
doing comedy lately, yeah. Iremember talking to Brian Pranston actually from Breaking
In and he's like, you know, one of the best guys you can
do is just completely opposite of whatyou just did. So I kind of
took that to heart and thought thatI'd love to get in and here I
am want to chuck Murrey sitcom.I hadn't done anything I did. Actually,
I did The Big Bang. Sixepisodes of The Big Bang was my
(21:07):
only sitcom experience. And as soonas this, uh, this job came
along and cast me in that onefor United States About, So tell me
about United States About. That's anew one. It is a new one,
and it just got picked up renewedfor our next season. It's about
a veteran of family. I playedthe father of a marine who comes back
from Afghanistan and he's having lots ofproblems, so he ends up living in
(21:30):
my garage, my adult child andUM, and he brings his Afghan interpreter
back from Afghanistan, UM and helives with us. And I also have
a daughter who has moved back again. She lost her fiance in Afghanistan,
so she's having some serious problems.So it's a lot of it's a lot
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of people who are kind of brokenand need their father to try to kind
of get their lives back together.And it's interesting, speaking of advocacy,
that there's a group called No OneLeft dot org And I never knew this
was an issue, but it's abig issue of getting existing now that we're
pulling out of Afghanistan is getting theseinterpreters who worked with the US military and
(22:15):
helped us, getting them back overhere, because as soon as as we're
gone, they had targets on theirbacks and their families because they helped they
worked with the US. So weneed to get these guys out of here.
And we've been doing as much advocacywork as we can with the show,
raising money and raising awareness to makesure we get these interpreters out of
Afghanistan because the Taliban is on themand it's an important issue. And certainly
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someone's close to our show. Ohthat's great. I mean that you're doing
that, that you're appropriating and that'sa great public service. What about clause?
Talk a little bit about clause.That was a fun one. That
was a blast. And we justfinished he got interrupted for the COVID.
We were finishing for filming that lastMarch. The COVID. It's the COVID
(23:04):
now it's the big, the bigSea New kantacy Um and we got you
know, we got interrupted in Marchand then went back you know September and
the September and with all the protocolsand the testing and the masks during rehearsal
(23:25):
and all this kind of stuff,and we made it throughout. We had
finished our season like October, November, December, and I think it's going
to be the new season will beout this summer. So what's the most
fun about clause? Well, Iplayed a a bisexual, highly strongly Catholic
(23:48):
um leader of the Dixie Mafia,your usual type casting. So it was
so and he was just he's justthis crazy guy I just loved. And
Uncle Daddy, I mean when theytold me that, when they offered me
the role, they said, oh, it's the role of Uncle Daddy,
I almost like took it on thespot. We filmed it in Louisiana.
(24:08):
We filmed it in New Orleans,which was standing in from Florida. So
Uncle Daddy was your actual craziest Floridaman. Uh, you could imagine um.
And that was fun. And Iplayed with five unbelievably great actresses.
Who are the who are the nailpeople the nail clinic that I was laundering,
(24:30):
They were laundering my money. Uh. In the show, his his
his oxy coding. So he wasa pill bill what do they call him?
A pill something? You know wherethey're just cranking them out prescribing them
to people, and that's how hewas making his money. So Uncle Daddy
was in all your roles. Whatis your favorite role? Well, I
(24:52):
think Hank Cat Hank from Breaking Dad. It has to be just because it
was so rich creatively and it wasliterally every season was new stuff and growing
as an actor and figuring things outand stuff. So I think that what
at the end of the day wouldhave to be so far, Um,
you know, hopefully there'll be anotherone coming that I that I maybe out.
(25:15):
We'll see I do love art inthe USFL so far, so we'll
see him. So knowing what youdo today and talking to that eighteen year
old smarty pants, Sorry I wentto Harvard. Who was that? You
were the class Valley dictorian too,right? I was, yes, great
a student with So what would youtell to that hard working young man that
(25:41):
you That's what would be the notthe best piece of advice, but just
what's something you could tell them thatthere's no idea you would have known back
then? Well that you know throughhard work. And I hate to say
because sounds a cliche, but thatdon't necessarily don't Everyone told me not you'd
(26:04):
be a starving actor. Everyone toldme not to be an actor, you
know what I'm saying, And ifI had listened to them, I wouldn't
be sitting here talking to you today, So, you know, taking the
On the other hand, had Iknow how hard it was, you know,
if I were, you know,a forty year old deciding to get
(26:26):
into this business, I wouldn't say, oh man, you know, just
no, it's too crazy. Butluckily I was naive enough to go ahead
and follow my dreams as at thatage. And I think that's important for
people to do. It's so easyto get slotted into, you know again,
like say going to Harvard or anyuniversity you get slotted into. You've
got to have you know that thesefive jobs or the jobs you have to
(26:51):
do, and life isn't all aboutsimply preparing yourself for a job. It's
it's also it's a life lived,and you want to follow your passion and
follow things. Now you have tomake money. I get that, but
there's something really important and satisfying aboutdoing the thing that you kind of dreamed
about doing and actually actually doing it. And it's possible. I mean I
(27:15):
didn't have any special I didn't knowanybody. I didn't have any special ups
or ends, you know, um, And it was just a matter of,
you know, going to audition afteraudition after audition, and start bucking
jobs. You have like a hundredkids, anything over three. Just what
I have is a might as wellbe a hundred as a working parent who
(27:38):
traveled, as a fellow working parentwho travels a lot, how do you
do it? It's hard. Yeah, that's the hardest part of all.
When the kids were young, theywould like our first season of Breaking Bad.
My kids were Jesus, I can'tbelieve that shows this old ape of
(27:59):
that, right, yeah, Andthe first season everyone we moved there.
I just we rented a house andit was a great year because all the
kids were young enough. They werejust starting in some of them in preschool,
some of them in kindergarten, thingslike that. So we just moved
there. But after that, oncethey started getting older and getting into school,
(28:21):
I couldn't take them out of schooland stuff, you know, obviously,
so I would just fly back andforth. And I was very well
known on this set for being theguy trying to get out on you know,
early enough on Friday, so Icould hop on a plane and hopefully
convince them to not schedule me onMonday, so I could spend you know,
Saturday, Sunday at home and flyback on Monday to work Tuesday and
(28:42):
things like that. So I spenta lot of time on planes. And
fortunately at this stage it's great tobe at an LA house because now the
kids are older, I think theymaybe even more need me around. Yeah,
and there's more issues to be dealtwith and things like that, so
(29:02):
we're grounding to be done. Soit's it's nice to be have a job
here in LA where I'm driving towork down flying and I know, man,
especially my jobs were on the otherside of the country too, so
I worked in a job in Wilmingin North Carolina. So you know,
that time change, man just knocksyou out. It's a whole day,
(29:25):
you know, It's just like yeah, but anyway, I mean, one
of the good things about acting isthat, yeah, you travel a lot
and you're gone a lot, butthey're also you know, month long stints
where you're at home. So Itry to concentrate on making up for you
know, for a lot of timeon those during those days, you know,
oh, guilt, parenting, guilt, parenting. Yeah, you know,
that's what I wake up. That'swhen I wake up and take him
(29:48):
to school instead of my wife doingand all that. You know, you
do all you try to overcompensate forthe time. Oh yeah, and the
kids hate it. It's like,yeah, oh god, hey I'm here.
Oh my god, Oh my god, oh my god, oh my
god. I embarrass my kids allthe time on perfect I love to embarrass
(30:11):
my kids. That's the gift ofparenting. That's the best, isn't it.
Yeah. Oh, it's the greatest. It's the greatest gift. It
is. Well, this is somuch fun hanging with you and seeing you,
and thank you, Robin. It'salways a blast to talk with you.
And I love all the work youdo, all the great well I
(30:33):
do it with you. I doit with our gang, you know.
Yeah, And it's uh, butyou you you do a lot of great
stuff and you're very much appreciated.So tell my kids that. Thank you
so much for listening, and thankyou Dean for joining us. I love
a good hangout with Dean. Comeback to the Edge next time, or
(30:56):
we'll sit down with emmy nominee Andif there were a Dean of the University
of Gray's Anatomy. It would beher doctor Miranda Bailey, the great actor
Chandra Wilson. See then you've beenlistening to On the Edge, a podcast
series from the Creative Coalition hosted byCreative Coalition CEO Robin Bronk. For more
(31:18):
information on how you can protect fundingfor the arts and harness the power of
the arts to promote social good,visit us at the Creative Coalition dot org.
This is On the Edge, apodcast series from the Creative Coalition featuring conversations
with an edge and chats with personalitiesfrom the world of entertainment. Now here's
your host, Creative Coalition CEO RobinBronk. Welcome, Welcome, we are
on the Edge today. I'm Robin, and thank you for tuning in.
(00:29):
Joining us today is SAG Award winningactor Dean Norris, who you know and
love from the Emmy nominated series UnitedStates of Al and the multi Emmy Award
winning series Breaking Back. Let's welcomeDean to the hot seat. Come on
down and you hail from Indiana,right I do. I grew up in
(00:52):
South ben Indiana, stayed there untilI was eighteen, graduated in the head
off the college. I went toHarvard University Economics, pot to, philosophy,
and history essentially. It was awonderful, wonderful time. It was
great people and I learned a lotpeople. I was like, well,
what did you you know? Whatdid you learn it for? What do
you use it for? Him like, I used it to be intelligent,
(01:14):
you know, that's to be wellread. When did you decide to join
this circus? I'd always been involvedas a young story. Even at five
years old, I was doing playsand certainly loved it. I kind of
wanted to be a musician. Iplayed guitar and I had a band,
but at some point I realized thatI wasn't good enough to really make any
(01:36):
money in that field and kind ofswitched over to, you know, the
first cousin acting and did a lotof plays at Harvard. Although there was
no drama program, we had extracurricularIt was really really quite fun, and
I got into the Royal Academy ofDramatic Art after college, and I was
like, you know, that's agood confidence builder, and went to London
(01:57):
and studied for a year and thencame back to work with the American Repertory
Theater, which was at Harvard atthe time. That's Robert Brustein who really
made the Yale Drama School what itwas. Robert Brustein had moved from Yale
to Harvard right around nineteen eighty andI started college eighty one, so it
was a professional theater right there.I was under studying the big guys and
(02:19):
taking little roles and plays. Gotmy equity card and said, hey,
let's give it a shot. Wentto New York for literally three months,
I got my first job, andthen decided to head out to California.
I did eight tables for six monthsin LA because when I got here there
was the first writers strike that Iwas aware of, like eighty seven or
eighty eight, and nothing was goingon. And then when they started auditioning
(02:45):
again, I got leaked weapon too, and that made me so I didn't
have to work anymore other than beingan actor. When you went off to
Harvard, did you tell your parentsare going to be in the arts and
philosophy? How are they about thiscrazy life? Neither of my parents had
gone the college, and they didnever put any pressure on me. But
I certainly was aware that I couldmake a lot of money as an investment
(03:05):
banker or doctor, a lawyer orwhatever people do when they go out of
Harvard, and kind of felt myown pressure to take care of my parents
a little bit. But they werethey were all over it. You know.
My dad had a band. Hewas like Adam Sandler and the Wed
He'd saying, so he always,you know, wanted to have that kind
of dream of being entertainment, youknow what I'm saying. And they were
(03:28):
excited. I mean, I thinkthey were probably nervous and they didn't let
me know, but they were certainlynot pushing me to do anything else.
And that helped a lot, havinga safe space. And luckily, you
know, I got leath the weapontoo, and that for a boy from
Indiana that was making it right there, I was all of a sudden in
one of the hottest movies of thesummer. And then I got total recall
(03:49):
and I did Hard to Kill.I did like five to six action movies,
you know. I remember very goingto meet Dick Donner, who was
the director leaf Upon Too at WarnerBrothers. They're like, oh, out
Order Brothers is a big office everything. Basically that's talked to me for a
while. But yeah, you looklike you're a cop, and I knew
you. He hired me, soI played another cover cop on that lead
(04:11):
them too, And it was likeback in the day when they were making
a movie. It was like fourmonths of work. So what was that
feeling like when you first went outto the Warner Brothers lot. I mean,
I find it really exciting to goover there. Yeah, I'm working
there now. That's where my newshow shoots. Actually, Yeah, and
I walked past the his old office. He's not in the business. He's
(04:33):
pretty tired now. But you know, it was. It was spectacular.
I think I have somewhere, youknow, I'm a saver kind of guy.
I think I have somewhere my originalcar pass that they gave me,
um that I saved. I certainlysaved it whenever I did a pilot.
But I think I saved twelve themtwo as well. But the time Dick
Donner was huge, and and youknew it was a movie with Mel Gibson.
(04:56):
I remember the first day set.You know, it was a sad
call. I get there. Iwas early, you know, I'm in
my little cubbyhole trailer and uh,you know, I didn't. I was
all ready to go, ready togo, ready to go. And they're
like okay, you know, andthe eight o'clock combs, and nine o'clock
comes and and nothing's going on,and lunch comes. I hadn't worked,
(05:16):
and I'm like, all right,okay, that's the other thing where lunch
was. It was a Friday,so lunch was filet and lobster, okay.
And I'm like yeah, and I'mlike really, you know, yeah,
they do lobster every Friday for lunch. And I remember sitting there all
day and I didn't work, andI happen to have an acquaintance that was
also just randomly on the movie,and I'm like, dude, what's the
deal? He goes man. Youknow, by the time it takes them,
(05:40):
the amount of money these guys getpaid, by the time it takes
them to sit down and figure outif they eat you or not, they
just have you on the set casethey do. So there would be,
you know, days where I wouldjust sit there for twelve hours and that
work or day's read sit there forsix hours and they call you in need
to do with you know, andstart working on the scene. I mean,
that's what my movies back in theday took six months. They took
six months to film from from beginningto end. People forget that because now
(06:03):
they filmed six weeks. But itwas great and every every you know,
you just sit there every day gettingpaid the staking a lobster and then run
around with a gun and act likea cop. A little bit. That's
worth a degree. They don't talkabout that in the Royal Academy. I
bet they should. What was thatmoment when you thought, let your life
(06:29):
change because you started getting recognized.What was that moment for you? Yeah,
well that was I mean a littlebit in town. I was kind
of considered a pretty steady working actorfor ever since lead the way I did,
Like I said, total reco Iwould good jobs pretty steadily. The
first thing that really helped me onTV was I got the first season of
(06:53):
NYPD Blue as a recurring That wasmy first kind of recurring TV job.
But clearly after about the third seasonto Breaking Bad, things really changed because
it started to become this culturally justyou know, went on to just become
this really big, culturally iconic show. You remember the first time that he
(07:14):
started to be stopped? I did. I actually remember because I was eating
with my parents. It like itjust the first couple episodes came out,
and I remember the waiter U andyou know, I was having dinner with
my parents and the waiter said,oh my god, so are you are
you? Are you that? Ilike? Uh, I think then that
guy guy are you thinking of?And some guy that knows you money or
(07:36):
what? And he said no.I you know, I saw that niche
show. I thought it was reallygood and I was like, oh,
okay, people watch TV shows whenyou're on them. Uh So that was
the first time, and then itjust after the after the third season,
it really started getting PopEd. TheirNetflix picked it up and everyone started watching
on Netflix, and then it became, uh, you know, you became
(07:59):
you know, well known. Butbut for me, I kind of went
in from me. It wasn't likezero to sixty because I was kind of
already cruising it about twenty twenty five, you know, because I would get
some stuff and you know, Weapontwo is a big enough movie that people
would recognize you from it when itwas out, and then it kind of
just shifted into into into sixty andthen later into hyper space as the show
(08:22):
came to an end. So well, talking about fans and stuff, I
mean, one of the things thatyou do with the Creative Coalition is advocacy
work, which is tremendous and youknow, I always, I always get
the warning that you know, whenyou're doing advocacy work, half the fans
might not like what you're doing.And I think that takes a lot of
(08:43):
courage. That's something that's on theedge. It takes courage. Creative Coalition
has recently taken on the issue ofobesity, that obesity is this last of
the shame and blame diseases. Ithas stigmas. It's sort of like mental
illness was ten years ago. Andwhen we took this campaign on, and
we recently did a PSA about obesitybeing a co morbidity of COVID and very
(09:09):
serious, and I talked to youabout people feeling like they were alone,
and you very graciously agreed to doit. It's kind of a hot bet
issue. Why it's a shameful thing, I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm
not sure why it is considered whatit is. I don't know, because
it could be a tough thing,you know. I mean, I know
my mom struggled with it. Shetried hard. You know. It wasn't
(09:33):
like she was just a lazy personor something. Did she talk about it?
Did you ever have to deal withit with her? She was a
proud woman and she was a hardwork for her and a really great soul.
But I mean, that's sure.It was aware that the kids maybe
make fun of it, you know, And I think I've probably gotten a
(09:54):
few fist bites well, because Iwouldn't accept anybody's saying something about it,
you know, and she never reallydwelt on it, and she wasn't super
obesed, but she certainly struggled withher weight. You know, it was
certainly an issue that I saw howit could affect people, and that you
know, it was an easy thingfor people to you know, kids are
(10:15):
mean, man, and easy thingfor people to make fun of. You
know. So it's an issue thatI kind of understood from a personal standpoint.
You know, there's ways to behealthy, and it's good and it's
important. But it's like you gethigh blood pressure. I mean, you
know, some people have it,some people don't. I mean, you
can try to control it and youcan try to do things. There is
an element that you were born witha certain DNA that makes you skinnier.
(10:39):
We had a nutritionist talking we weredoing a writer's workshop on this, and
we just learned that seventy percent ofyour body is pretty much cooked in the
womb, meaning that whatever you're goingto be right. And they say that's
true for like cholesterol all that stuff. I mean, you either have high
cholesterold in caees or you don't,no matter, even if you don't eat
(11:00):
any eggs or butter, or whateverthe thing is, most of it is
already cooked in for you know,all those kinds of things, so the
same thing they're absit, I think, And you know, yeah, okay,
so you work on the thirty percentyou can, but that's only thirty
percent. Was there any stigma attachedto it growing up? I mean,
you said, kids made fun ofyour mom sometimes, so it wasn't a
(11:22):
lot, but the fact that ithappened at all made you understand that it
was, you know, it wasan issue. And people judge you by
your initial looks, you know,and that's one of the things they judge
you negatively about. So I don'tknow it was a stigma as much as
(11:43):
I certainly remember it being okay,you know, clocking that in my mind
that it was something that society didn'treally didn't really accept very well or understand
or understand. And I think that'swhere we are now, is is trying
to to grow to understand. Andit's it's funny, obesity is this only
(12:07):
disease that we say embrace it,don't you know? And a lot of
times or you will say embrace it, we wouldn't say that, but you
know, every other disease we'd saygo get help. There is help.
Yeah, but it's a long storythat I wanted to say thank you for
for being part of this PSA thatwe hope helped change lives, to bring
(12:31):
um bring some some hope to peoplewith us. So it was, it
was, it's all. I thinkit's always courageous to get involved in a
public service campaign. I remember,really early on in my life, as
in early on being high school,always thinking that if I ever had any
(12:52):
fame at all, that it wouldbe my duty in some ways to to
speak for people who don't don't getto be spoken for. And I've always
felt that since I was in highschool and I realized that, and I
got it more when I came outhere and realized the amount of money that
people make, and you know,and you realize there's these people in Indiana
(13:16):
and other places, of course,but who I grew up with who will
never have a voice. And it'ssomehow, if you're the guy who makes
it out of there, you havean obligation and a duty to use your
voice because they're never going to geta chance to use it. There's never
(13:37):
going to be a boy who camefrom two parents who didn't go to college,
who were hard workers and all thatstuff, and they're not going to
get talked to with on a podcastor or in a show. So if
you don't speak for them, whowill, you know what I'm saying.
And I always thought that true withthe from an economic point of view and
(14:01):
financial point of view too, whichis why it always kills me when people
always try to you know, weapp about Hollywood actors and the elite,
and I'm like, every factor Iknow, most of them came from no
money and they're certainly not out oftouch. They're really in touch, you
know, because they came from placeswhere their dad wasn't the head of CEO
(14:24):
of Johnson and Johnson, or theythey weren't this or that. They most
of the actors I know came fromhumble beginning. I realized that's you.
Most of the actors I know whoare successful came from hard working parents.
Might have had more than one job, and you worked hard for it.
Yeah, So it always kills mewhen when I hear this, you know,
(14:45):
oh, elite out of touch.It's like, oh, you know,
how many of you guys talking aboutelite out of touch? Weighted tables
or or or you know where Iworked at fourteen. I had washing dishes
at fourteen. You know, soI think again, I know where that's
where who those people are and wherethat comes, and you know, so
I think it's important to speak speakfor those people. I mean, that's
(15:07):
what the creative colosition stands for,is you have a superpower and our members
are actors, writers, producers,directors. Yeah right. You guys always
say that who have this this platformand you you know, you're the What
you just said is the poster childfor exactly what we're trying to do is
realize that you have this platform,realize that you have the superpower. Um.
(15:30):
But on the other hand, togetting back into the dan of it
all with Breaking Bad, I mean, that dealt with issues, and it
dealt with current real life issues thatpeople face or could face, and it,
you know, it's very in ain a very edgy sort of way.
What was your audition like for that? It was just a straight up
(15:54):
I will grant them. I rememberreading the pilot and oh my god,
this role is perfect for me.I really I had just missed another pilot
about six months prior, and Iwas exactly it was like this is going
to change my life. And Ididn't get it, and I was still
kind of nursing my wounds a littlebit. Uh, And it was like,
(16:14):
oh man, here here's another pilotthat comes along that I just loved
and I knew I would be perfectfor the role. But I was like,
I was perfect for the last role. But it ain't great that you
didn't get that at a role exactly. That pilot never went I mean they
filmed it, never, it neverwent on to be a series, so
I wouldn't have been available. Umso yeah, which is you know,
(16:36):
one of the oldest kind of rulesor or things of acting is that you
know what I guess in life too. I mean, you miss one opportunity,
another one comes along. So Ijust went in and I auditioned for
Vince Gilligan straight up, and Icould tell he liked me. We did
it a couple of times and thatwas about it. Next next call I
got was they want to make adeal with you, and uh, and
(16:57):
and take you in front of thenetwork and UH did that and uh we
were on our way. How manyyears did you play Hank? How many
years? Was that? Six years? And tell me about like the Hank
that you first met in the Hankthat you left. Yeah, well you
first meet him, he's a he'sa blow ard, and he's a real
(17:18):
kind of he was kind of thecomic relief and kind of a real,
um, you know, macho toughguy. Um. And it was really
interesting because in the third season thenyou see him break down, um,
kind of out of a PTSD situation, and he became a completely different guy
(17:40):
after that third season. During thethird season, through the third season and
the last half of Hank four orfive and six was all pretty depressing.
He was he was a broken manand he had to somehow try to find
find his life again. And um, I remember, yeah, and that
(18:03):
was actually pretty depressed in real lifeat the time. Part I don't know
the partlem because of that, Ilost my parents during Breaking Bad, both
separately, both about three years apart. So by the time I ended Breaking
Bad, I was an orphan.And uh, it was it was it
somehow charmically weirdly matched the problems thatHank was going through. Just the fact
(18:26):
that he was going through problems.Uh like it. It was in it.
I was also going through some depressionin my own life because having lost
my parents and stuff, and itwas a strange time. So it kind
of maybe affected and probably in someway helped the character at the last last
three, last few seasons. Whatwas your hardest episode, I'm breaking bad
(18:48):
for you to do. Yeah,Um, you know, I don't know
if I would call any of themhard. They were certainly, Um,
they were just it was so fullof stuff, you know, And for
me, the last the first episodeof the final season was a tough one,
and that's when Brian Cranston and Ikind of I confront him about him
(19:11):
being this uh, this guy,and he was directing that episode as well,
and I remember we worked hard,We worked, We worked really hard
trying to find the right tone.It's a scene in a garage where I
kind of closed the garage and Ibasically confront him and that took That was
a tough day he was directing.It was it was like the climax of
(19:34):
what's been going on for about fiveyears. Hank finally finds out who who
Walt is and he confronts him.So that probably that episode, the first
episode of the final season, wasprobably the toughest. Did you did you
learn about a lot about the drugtrade, and it was just did you
have to study for it? Wedid. We had we had the full
(20:00):
support of the DA, and theykind of you know, came in and
were teaching us about just about differentelements of But that was more for the
producers and writers, I think,so that they could you know, correctly
write it. Um. But theytaught him, you know, the basics
of the mechanics of how the thingthings are, how the math is made,
and stuff like that. And Icertainly had a lot of DA advisors
(20:22):
around UM, so we could talkabout various elements of policing and things like
that. Plus we got to golike into their DA. They have training
facilities and they're like I was like, oh, yeah, call me in.
Got the kind of shoot guns andpretend that we're taking you know,
going into a building and doing allthis kind of stuff. So you've been
(20:45):
doing comedy lately, yeah. Iremember talking to Brian Pranston actually from Breaking
In and he's like, you know, one of the best guys you can
do is just completely opposite of whatyou just did. So I kind of
took that to heart and thought thatI'd love to get in and here I
am want to chuck Murrey sitcom.I hadn't done anything I did. Actually,
I did The Big Bang. Sixepisodes of The Big Bang was my
(21:07):
only sitcom experience. And as soonas this, uh, this job came
along and cast me in that onefor United States About, So tell me
about United States About. That's anew one. It is a new one,
and it just got picked up renewedfor our next season. It's about
a veteran of family. I playedthe father of a marine who comes back
from Afghanistan and he's having lots ofproblems, so he ends up living in
(21:30):
my garage, my adult child andUM, and he brings his Afghan interpreter
back from Afghanistan, UM and helives with us. And I also have
a daughter who has moved back again. She lost her fiance in Afghanistan,
so she's having some serious problems.So it's a lot of it's a lot
(21:52):
of people who are kind of brokenand need their father to try to kind
of get their lives back together.And it's interesting, speaking of advocacy,
that there's a group called No OneLeft dot org And I never knew this
was an issue, but it's abig issue of getting existing now that we're
pulling out of Afghanistan is getting theseinterpreters who worked with the US military and
(22:15):
helped us, getting them back overhere, because as soon as as we're
gone, they had targets on theirbacks and their families because they helped they
worked with the US. So weneed to get these guys out of here.
And we've been doing as much advocacywork as we can with the show,
raising money and raising awareness to makesure we get these interpreters out of
Afghanistan because the Taliban is on themand it's an important issue. And certainly
(22:41):
someone's close to our show. Ohthat's great. I mean that you're doing
that, that you're appropriating and that'sa great public service. What about clause?
Talk a little bit about clause.That was a fun one. That
was a blast. And we justfinished he got interrupted for the COVID.
We were finishing for filming that lastMarch. The COVID. It's the COVID
(23:04):
now it's the big, the bigSea New kantacy Um and we got you
know, we got interrupted in Marchand then went back you know September and
the September and with all the protocolsand the testing and the masks during rehearsal
(23:25):
and all this kind of stuff,and we made it throughout. We had
finished our season like October, November, December, and I think it's going
to be the new season will beout this summer. So what's the most
fun about clause? Well, Iplayed a a bisexual, highly strongly Catholic
(23:48):
um leader of the Dixie Mafia,your usual type casting. So it was
so and he was just he's justthis crazy guy I just loved. And
Uncle Daddy, I mean when theytold me that, when they offered me
the role, they said, oh, it's the role of Uncle Daddy,
I almost like took it on thespot. We filmed it in Louisiana.
(24:08):
We filmed it in New Orleans,which was standing in from Florida. So
Uncle Daddy was your actual craziest Floridaman. Uh, you could imagine um.
And that was fun. And Iplayed with five unbelievably great actresses.
Who are the who are the nailpeople the nail clinic that I was laundering,
(24:30):
They were laundering my money. Uh. In the show, his his
his oxy coding. So he wasa pill bill what do they call him?
A pill something? You know wherethey're just cranking them out prescribing them
to people, and that's how hewas making his money. So Uncle Daddy
was in all your roles. Whatis your favorite role? Well, I
(24:52):
think Hank Cat Hank from Breaking Dad. It has to be just because it
was so rich creatively and it wasliterally every season was new stuff and growing
as an actor and figuring things outand stuff. So I think that what
at the end of the day wouldhave to be so far, Um,
you know, hopefully there'll be anotherone coming that I that I maybe out.
(25:15):
We'll see I do love art inthe USFL so far, so we'll
see him. So knowing what youdo today and talking to that eighteen year
old smarty pants, Sorry I wentto Harvard. Who was that? You
were the class Valley dictorian too,right? I was, yes, great
a student with So what would youtell to that hard working young man that
(25:41):
you That's what would be the notthe best piece of advice, but just
what's something you could tell them thatthere's no idea you would have known back
then? Well that you know throughhard work. And I hate to say
because sounds a cliche, but thatdon't necessarily don't Everyone told me not you'd
(26:04):
be a starving actor. Everyone toldme not to be an actor, you
know what I'm saying, And ifI had listened to them, I wouldn't
be sitting here talking to you today, So, you know, taking the
On the other hand, had Iknow how hard it was, you know,
if I were, you know,a forty year old deciding to get
(26:26):
into this business, I wouldn't say, oh man, you know, just
no, it's too crazy. Butluckily I was naive enough to go ahead
and follow my dreams as at thatage. And I think that's important for
people to do. It's so easyto get slotted into, you know again,
like say going to Harvard or anyuniversity you get slotted into. You've
got to have you know that thesefive jobs or the jobs you have to
(26:51):
do, and life isn't all aboutsimply preparing yourself for a job. It's
it's also it's a life lived,and you want to follow your passion and
follow things. Now you have tomake money. I get that, but
there's something really important and satisfying aboutdoing the thing that you kind of dreamed
about doing and actually actually doing it. And it's possible. I mean I
(27:15):
didn't have any special I didn't knowanybody. I didn't have any special ups
or ends, you know, um, And it was just a matter of,
you know, going to audition afteraudition after audition, and start bucking
jobs. You have like a hundredkids, anything over three. Just what
I have is a might as wellbe a hundred as a working parent who
(27:38):
traveled, as a fellow working parentwho travels a lot, how do you
do it? It's hard. Yeah, that's the hardest part of all.
When the kids were young, theywould like our first season of Breaking Bad.
My kids were Jesus, I can'tbelieve that shows this old ape of
(27:59):
that, right, yeah, Andthe first season everyone we moved there.
I just we rented a house andit was a great year because all the
kids were young enough. They werejust starting in some of them in preschool,
some of them in kindergarten, thingslike that. So we just moved
there. But after that, oncethey started getting older and getting into school,
(28:21):
I couldn't take them out of schooland stuff, you know, obviously,
so I would just fly back andforth. And I was very well
known on this set for being theguy trying to get out on you know,
early enough on Friday, so Icould hop on a plane and hopefully
convince them to not schedule me onMonday, so I could spend you know,
Saturday, Sunday at home and flyback on Monday to work Tuesday and
(28:42):
things like that. So I spenta lot of time on planes. And
fortunately at this stage it's great tobe at an LA house because now the
kids are older, I think theymaybe even more need me around. Yeah,
and there's more issues to be dealtwith and things like that, so
(29:02):
we're grounding to be done. Soit's it's nice to be have a job
here in LA where I'm driving towork down flying and I know, man,
especially my jobs were on the otherside of the country too, so
I worked in a job in Wilmingin North Carolina. So you know,
that time change, man just knocksyou out. It's a whole day,
(29:25):
you know, It's just like yeah, but anyway, I mean, one
of the good things about acting isthat, yeah, you travel a lot
and you're gone a lot, butthey're also you know, month long stints
where you're at home. So Itry to concentrate on making up for you
know, for a lot of timeon those during those days, you know,
oh, guilt, parenting, guilt, parenting. Yeah, you know,
that's what I wake up. That'swhen I wake up and take him
(29:48):
to school instead of my wife doingand all that. You know, you
do all you try to overcompensate forthe time. Oh yeah, and the
kids hate it. It's like,yeah, oh god, hey I'm here.
Oh my god, Oh my god, oh my god, oh my
god. I embarrass my kids allthe time on perfect I love to embarrass
(30:11):
my kids. That's the gift ofparenting. That's the best, isn't it.
Yeah. Oh, it's the greatest. It's the greatest gift. It
is. Well, this is somuch fun hanging with you and seeing you,
and thank you, Robin. It'salways a blast to talk with you.
And I love all the work youdo, all the great well I
(30:33):
do it with you. I doit with our gang, you know.
Yeah, And it's uh, butyou you you do a lot of great
stuff and you're very much appreciated.So tell my kids that. Thank you
so much for listening, and thankyou Dean for joining us. I love
a good hangout with Dean. Comeback to the Edge next time, or
(30:56):
we'll sit down with emmy nominee Andif there were a Dean of the University
of Gray's Anatomy. It would beher doctor Miranda Bailey, the great actor
Chandra Wilson. See then you've beenlistening to On the Edge, a podcast
series from the Creative Coalition hosted byCreative Coalition CEO Robin Bronk. For more
(31:18):
information on how you can protect fundingfor the arts and harness the power of
the arts to promote social good,visit us at the Creative Coalition dot org.
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