March 3, 2022 • 39 mins
Five-time Emmy nominee starring in 18 seasons of “Grey’s Anatomy” Chandra Wilson talks about some of her most medically challenging moments as Dr. Miranda Bailey, including watching a baby get open-heart surgery while shadowing a surgeon for her “Grey’s” role, her experience growing up in the South in the 1970s and being called racial slurs as a child, and the difficulty of addressing the stigmas surrounding obesity.
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This is On the Edge, apodcast series from the Creative Coalition featuring conversations
with an edge and chats with personalitiesfrom the world of entertainment. Now here's
your host, Creative Coalition CEO RobinBronk. Welcome listeners to On the Edge.
Today's guest is Emmy Award nominee ChandraWilson, doctor Miranda Bailey. To
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millions from the iconic and record breakingseries Raise Anatomy, which was just renewed
for its nineteenth season. Let's welcomeChandra to the Edge. It's my pleasure
to say hey to Chandra Wilson today, my heart to my new friend of
the Creative Coalition. You did sucha spectacularly moving PSA for us, so
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let's show hard then thank you thatthis was the SA we did to encourage
vaccines for COVID and you did itwith a real in real life nurse,
and you were so kind after avery long PSA filming to do a shout
out to the nurse in real lifewho says you were so inspirational in her
career. I hope that she lovesseeing all three of us on that same
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pisa that she has it on continuousplay. I mean, you are her
heroes, so it was it wasquite an act of love and thank you
on behalf of Alex our real lifenurse. Very very cool. So speaking
of that show, are you inyour hundredth season? But it feels like
it's sometimes and then sometimes it feelslike the second it's it's. It's very
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strange the way time goes. Whatis that in TV land? You know,
to be able to to have thatexperience and to be able to grow
a character from you know what theywere eighteen seasons ago in time you know,
to now, I think that's beenone of the big joy things that
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I've gotten out of it is uhfor you know, people like we were
just talking about, who can seea character I have a dream of something
and then take the steps towards gettingit and then attain that, you know,
being chief of Surgery in about thetime that it would normally take.
So that's that's been really cool.I have so many things to pack into
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my time with you, but Iwant to hear first about Chandra. Yeah,
where you grew up in Texas?Yes, Houston born and raised.
Do you feel like a Texan?Are you a Texan at heart? I
absolutely am in in every way possible. I always feel like I'm, you
know, a transplant to other places. But you know, my roots and
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and everything about who I am isbecause I grew up in Houston. I
grew up in Houston in the seventies. I grew up right after desegregation in
schools, growing up in a blackneighborhood. I went to a magnet elementary
school that buzzed in the white kidsto my school. So I always had,
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you know, interracial classrooms, andyou know, that was never an
issue. I didn't understand though,that they were being brought to the school
because usually it was the other wayaround. It wasn't until middle school that
I realized, oh that that wasthat was different. That wasn't what everybody
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else's experience was. It was abig deal. We were doing you know,
music and all of the performing artsfrom kindergarten. You know, we
were learning how to play instruments thatstarted off with the violin, and we
had piano lessons and we always didour plays. Um. So the arts
was fully integrated into our curriculum.Um who knew that that was not what
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everybody had. So it's not untillater when these things started getting taken away.
Um that I realized, wow,I you know, as far as
upbringings go, I was kind ofokay, Um, race did Race did
hit me, young m as faras you know, being called the inn
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word or being put in situation whereI was the only you know, black
child in the room or the onlyblack child and the dance ensemble. But
there was always some angel around thatwas really glad that I was there and
made all those words and all thoseinferences and all it gave them no value.
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So I learned early, like fiveyears old, that the inn word
has no value. Because you know, I still won we Windy Model of
the Year. In nineteen seventy six. It was um so that we're talking
about charm school, and the charmschool was attached to the Inngom Rewards department
store. Oh Montgomery Ward. Yeah. So I went to Montgomer Rewards form
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my charm school lessons on Saturday,and it culminated in a pageant where we
modeled clothes from Montgomer Rewards. Andso this pageant, I thought that there
was one other black girl in mycharm class. But I was behind the
curtain, you know, before itwas my turn to go up and do
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my routine, and a little girl, a little white girl, let me
know that I wasn't going to win. And I was like, wow,
how you know already? She said, because you're a niggah. I was
like, oh, okay, andI don't think I knew what that was
at the time. And I wentand I did my little routine or whatever.
Wait, wait, what was yourroutine? You know? You walked
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out modeled. It was a littlepant suit, did a little back and
forth, did a little thing,did a little lunge, did a little
and I went to leave and theywere like, wait, hey, we're
not done. We're not done.So I remember I had to stand at
the edge of the stage for awhile until they finished, you know,
describing everything. So I got down, I went and I talked to my
mom and I said, Mom,so and so said that I wasn't gonna
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win because I was a nigger.And she said, no, you're not
gonna win because that whole little lunchsection in the middle that we've been practicing.
But you didn't do that. That'swhy you had to wait, because
the routine wasn't long enough. Youforgot the lunch, just missed the other
thing. It was just missed.But I did win. I did the
best I could with what I did. Um. So that's why I say
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that the word it had no meaning, um, you know to me.
So it wasn't something even growing upin the South, that that was something
to hold me back, you know. It was like a whatever. And
so I was fortunate in a wayto get that early to not have to
carry a word, you know,with me like an albatross. We were
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about the only Jewish family in mytown in South Carolina, and for me,
you always remembered it. You talkabout it all the time. Yeah,
but you know we were the Jewishfamily. Yeah. So it becomes
what does different mean, right?And what does it mean for your life?
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Or is that the blessing? Isthat the blessing on your life?
Um? You know that's up tosome other person in history to figure out
what that was for me. Butit was just one of the early things
that I knew shouldn't be a hindrancein life, right with getting into college,
with deciding to be an actor,with um auditions that I probably wasn't
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right for but was able to besubmitted for, there was no reason not
to try there was no reason notto, you know, throw my hat
in the ring for whatever it isthat I wanted to do that. There
really was nothing. The only thingthat could stop me is if I didn't
try. What was the edgiest whatwas the biggest risk you took them?
Was it going to NYU? SoI guess the story that comes to mind
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was when I was in and thisis good problems. I learned later on,
it's really good problems. I wasa sophomore at NYU and I was
doing a production of Pippin and Iwas playing the leading player. And that
sophomore year, I finally got amanager and I started going out auditioning.
Wait, this was an NYU.You got a man? Yeah? Yeah,
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you are really good stuff. Imean, I need that's really impressive.
You know. We were encouraged,for the most part not to work,
you know outside, just try tofocus on school. Um, but
you know whatever, I get mytoe wed, it's okay. Well,
I got this great opportunity to auditionfor Joseph Papp at the Public Theater,
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um my sophomore year for a playcalled The Forbidden City, and um,
I didn't get it, but theywanted me to be the understudy. And
you know, my manager and theagent that had submitted me, they were
so exciting, you gotta get towork with Joe and you're gonna be at
the public theater. And I waslike, oh, shoot, but I'm
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you know, I'm leading player overhere in Pippo. And they're like,
well, that's just for school,don't worry about that. But I was
like, well, I'm leading player. And the agent couldn't understand where there
was an issue. So we werein you had some morality? You had
oh I don't know if those wordsare at twenty jee. I just remember
being so frustrated by this. Wewere in tech, you know, and
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and the show was going to betwo weeks, and I was talking to
my director about it, and hesaid, child, march yourself over there
that public theater. Go talk toJoseph Papp. You tell him you're right
across the street here, and whyyou can y'all just hold on for two
weeks and you'll be right now.Did you do that? Absolutely? Did?
But I couldn't get past casting,and I went to Rosmarie Tishner and
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I was like, I want tosee Joe. I want to see Joe
what are you like nineteen then twenty? I want to see Joe. I
don't know what. And she thoughtit was really funny. That is hilarious,
she said, but baby, whatif something happens like during that first
week and you have to go onbut you're you know, on stage,
you know, the main stage,then why you you wouldn't be available.
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But but it's okay, thank you, thank you for coming over. Long
story short, I felt fine aboutit because I wasn't gonna leave, you
know, my show in the lurch, because you know, this opportunity was
here and Joe and whatever. Anyway, so the agent never wanted to see
me ever again, and she waslike, you have integrity, Chandre,
It's fine, you know whatever.And the play went great, and literally
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the day before we closed, Rosemarycaught me back and she said, are
you ready now? I was like, yeah. A girl who was in
the role got a part on theCosby Show. She needed to leave.
So the understudy went on and Iwas able to go in. Wow,
that is so great. You justI just like envision you watching yourself over
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is you don't even ask for misterpap Joe. How so I've had people
all my life like instill in me. Girl, You're fine, go ahead,
just be you and go ahead onand you know do you don't worry
about names, don't worry about labels, don't worry about it. Just go
on ahead and and go. Theonly thing, the only thing that will
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stop you is if you don't go. If you don't go, certainly you
have no shot. Just go ahead, on and go. I love that.
I love that. So talk alittle bit about your Gray's Anatomy audition.
Yeah, like you haven't talked aboutit before, but I want to
know about it. You want toknow. So it was a regular,
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you know, New York audition,and this was Rosalie Joseph, who was
at ABC had seen me for many, you know years, over the years
for different things. The role wasfor a short, white blonde female there
rigid um and they're kind of likeyour mom. Maybe. I was like,
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I'm gonna go in with my bestBacT and that was enough to get
me to LA for my studio andmy network auditions. I went into the
studio audition and met with the director. We had like a private session,
and I believe at the other endof the conference table was Betsy Beers,
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and Shanda Rhymes, who I hadno clue who they were, and they
didn't really like introduce themselves like youknow, with the producers or with this.
They were like other people in theroom. So I'm, you know,
working with the director. I didthat, and then we found out
that I was going to get calledto go into Network. So I went
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to Universal Studios with my two daughtersthat I had brought. I had like
about a five hour break, soI got ready to go to the network
audition. And the note that Igot from my agent, and I'm not
sure where it came from casting orwho have you, was make sure you
take command of the room. Iwas like wow, So that translated to
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me that as soon as I walkedthrough the door, the people in the
theater needed to hear my feet,to hear my heels, I'm shutting down.
Were you wearing cap shoes? Therite should have been needed to hear
it all the way. And Iwalked in in the part ready to say
the words I need to say.Go and then the audition ended and they
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said okay, bye, have anice flight, you know, back to
New York. And I was like, oh wow, that was it.
The whole I have a nice flightthing walking down the stairs at Disney.
The other actress who had auditioned rightbefore me was also doing a play in
New York, and they all cameout like we're trying to get tickets,
and it was like a whole thing. I was like, oh, okay.
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I believe it was the next dayor maybe two days later they told
me that I booked it. Wow. Since then, you've directed a number
of episodes as well. Yes,yes, I have, and was directing
always a passion. No, Inever envisioned myself as a series, dramatic
series television director. Maybe for thetheater, because that was my upbringing and
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that's what I knew, and youknow, that was my comfort zone.
But it was at some point inseason four when my producer Rob Korn came
to me and said, you know, you need to consider directing. You
should do this. I think you'dbe good at this. And I didn't
know what it was. I wasthe actor that never knew where the cameras
were. I showed up and didmy play every single time, you know,
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with no knowledge of camera. Iwas on my mark and what I'm
supposed to do, and you knowit was never about, oh, it's
your coverage, so do It's like, I didn't know what that was.
I just knew how to do theplay every time. So I had to
start paying attention to where the cameraswere and why, and going over to
the village and looking at the waythe shots were set up and why.
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I was a person that only watchedthe final product when everybody else saw it
on Sunday night. You know,at that time, I was taking a
risk absolutely, and plus that youwere doing with the people that you have
to work with every day and lookin the face again. Yeah, but
I had a nice chunk of time. My director of photography gave me a
book of the five season of cinematographythat he was like, learned this,
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know this and that day one andthen you'll be ready. So I studied,
you know, all through season four. I was supposed to directing season
five, but Bailey's storylines got kindof heavy in season five, so we
pushed to season six. So Ifinally got my shot in season six,
and the episode was a Derek Shepherdcentric episode that was really kind of,
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you know, a set apart fromthings that we had done in the past.
He provided the voiceover in the episode, so I was kind of allowed
some liberty to not have to lookexactly like Grey's Anatomy, which was good.
And so I did it and Iwas like, Yay, that was
it. That was my shot.And then a month later my executive producer
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came back to me and said,I need you to do another one,
and I was like, that's time. I asked why. He said,
because you're good at it, andbecause and we need you to cars.
So ever since then, I've directedto a season. I'm a longtime fan
of the show, and in theshow, you all have tackled so many
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taboo issues and brought to light.And I think you were at one of
the Creative Collision events where we talkabout the power of the entertainment industry to
open the doors and the windows,two issues that we don't want to talk
about, and I was actually goingto just talk to you and get your
opinion. One of the issues thatwe're tackling now. It's interesting because it
affects four out of ten viewers.It's it's obesity. It's the last of
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the silent diseases. It's what we'retrying to do again through the creative pulision
and through our platforms is to takethe stigma away from it, similar to
what you know we helped do withmental illness. And so I think that
there was an episode early on whereyou talked about it in probably a way
that it hadn't been talked about beforebecause I was looking. You know,
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we've been doing research on episodics thathave tackled it, and very few episodics
have I don't know if you rememberthis episode where you did talk about obesity
and it was about a patient whohad obesity. But you know, knowing
what you do and how to bringissues to the forefront, what does it
take to get to you know,I'm sure people are pitching diseases to you
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and to get focused all the time. If you were going to take this
issue of obesity, why would thedoctors in your hospital care about it?
What would it take? And reallyinteresting, based on last year and being
purposeful about wanting to affect healthcare goingforward, if you tap back to the
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Obama administration where the whole purpose ofthe Affordable Care Act was to stop people
early enough, right to change thehabits early enough so that later on we're
not dealing so much with the heartdisease, with the with the diabetes,
with obesity, because we've changed thehabits early on and we've gotten medical intervention
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early on in order to help uslater on. So that would definitely be
a reason to tackle the issue becauseI know that we have we have to
embrace body positive because that affects ourmental health. When we can't, you
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know what I mean, it's likewe won't be able to attack anything with
our bodies from minds aren't in agreat place. So I think the order
of things ends up being mental healthfirst and then now what are we putting
in our bodies? Yeah, it'sfunny. It's a really funny thing about
the city. And specific is thatit's not in lieu of body positivity.
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It's and it's something the creative potion. We're aware of it now. It's
this gateway to seventy two other diseases. And coming from the South, I
don't know if you can really Ican relate coming from the South where it's
like, you know, if youfry your sneaker and you know, you
know more, the more you thebetter. I don't know if you ever
ran into it, but you knowthat mentality of the South, it's all
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about being big, and but that'swhat we are. We're we're a size
fourteen sixteen eighteen society. Like that'snormal, right, the things that you
see on TV, things in themagazines. That's something people aspire to,
something people work at trying to getto. But just you know, folks
on the regular that you know,that's where we're living. And that's because
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of the access that we have towhat we have, which is fast food.
You know, like eating real quick. It's not about like going home
and you know, making dinner asa family, making lunch as a family,
sitting down and taking that and sittingat the table. You know.
It's just a different way that welook at food. And food has other
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uses besides just nutrition. Socially,everything involves food. Hey let's get together,
Hey let's meet at this restaurant.Like it's all around food. So
we you know, are a societyfull of people that are used to being
full, even if it's full onstuff that's not good for you. So
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we you know, ultimately you dowant to attack nutrition. But if you're
not in the right place to hearthat, then you're gonna think, oh,
you're looking at how I look,you're criticizing how I look and then
telling me how I'm supposed to eatbased on that, and then then you
get nowhere, you get it nowhere. It's so it's kind of funny.
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It's where with mental illness it usedto be, you know, well,
if you just smile, then you'llfeel better, and we know, m
that's absurd, or even epilepsy onehundred years ago. If you're a better
person and you had willpower, youwouldn't have to be wouldn't. Yeah,
you know, And so it's soscience has told us that obesity is a
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disease that you know, and it'sand it's interesting because you know, we
are looking at shows like Rays totackle it because it's something that that it's
this shame and blame which just youknow, we hope that in a couple
of years that will be as absurdas mental illness being shame and blame.
So did you I don't know ifyou remember this particular episode, but did
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you get any feedback from it?Did you? It was I think in
two thousand and ten that it wasvery early on. I do remember that,
I remember the girl, I remembertalking about shame. It was it
was way before I was like pluggedin. It was before social media and
I don't remember right, so,you know, people would have had to
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send letters to us, and itwas way before I was plugged in,
you know, on that level towhat the thinking was from the viewers from
what they were seeing. But onething about Grays is, and until this
last season, as far as socialissues or moral issues are concerned, we
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and even racial issues. As opposedto telling our audiences what they should think
or how they should feel or whatthey should think is important, we just
would show them, right, Wewould show them these characters, show them
these situations, show them this medicalyou know, and usually the patient would
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say whatever their perspective was about that, and it was left up to the
audience then to decide if that madeany sense at all, or if that
had value, or if that wasright. When I was doing the research
on it, I had forgotten aboutthat episode, but then when I saw
it, I remembered it. I'msure you get you know, oh,
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talk about this issue, talk aboutthat issue. You have your own issues
that you probably you know, liketo bring to the front. We know
that this a couple of seconds onTV can change the facest thing. So
this it's funny. Obesity. Itwas the biggest epidemic before the pandemic,
yet it's not addressed. I thinkyour episode, right, this was an
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extremely obese patient and I remember wewere going surgically to try to remove some
layers, if I remember right,and that and that that was going to
be incredibly dangerous and it was somethingthat she may not survive because of the
blood vessels and not being able totell the difference between you know, what
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was you know, something that wecould cut and otherwise, and that she
had just kind of put it onone of the doctors that they were judging
her because she allowed herself to getinto that position. But there was no
judgment upon it. You know,our jobs as surgeons, which we would
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always try to come back to,is to look at it from a medical
standpoint and look at it from asurgical standpoint. The other end of that
that that's the work that the patienthas to do, that's the work that
your social worker has to do,that's the work that a therapist has to
do. It. At this point, it doesn't do any good to blame.
It's like, this is where weare, so now what do we
do? And even though that's theway we kind of attack things in the
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past. Because of COVID, thiswas one of the seasons where then all
bets were off. Call it whatit is. Is it racism, is
it just en franchisement, is ita lack of equity, whatever it is,
call the thing by name, becauseit doesn't make sense not to do
it anymore. And I wouldn't besurprised if in the going forward, without
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being the preachers, you know,or the police of integrity, that it's
really important to call things by names. Interesting, especially in this case because
we talk about big bone, dowe talk about you know whatever? And
and this word obesity, it's wewhisper it's it's because it makes it seems
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like something's wrong as opposed to know, when you look at something medically,
when you get to this number that'sconsidered obese, it doesn't make sense because
you feel fine, um, youknow, But it's about having to learn
what are the consequences for and itand it you know, it comes down
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to food. But there's so manyfactors that go along with food, emotional
factors, environmental factors, which whichjust makes it huge and something that you
know, so many people are aresuffering with without even knowing it, you
know, because if it's your norm, like you're saying, we're from the
South of everybody in the family isbig boned and you big boned doo,
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then what's the problem? You know? As I'm sitting here listening to you,
I feel like I'm talking to themost humane and comforting doctor. How
did you train to be Miranda Bailey? Did you shadow real doctors? We
did? We did, but specificallyfor grades we are surgical rotation and that's
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something that we put that that hasprecedents, that's in the front. And
the reason for that is there's adifferent mentality, even though surgeons may not
want to say so, that involvesbeing the cutters. You. What I
learned from the people that I followedwas that it doesn't It's not about the
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person that's on the table. It'snot about their color, their ethnicity,
what they did last Tuesday, whothey cursed out, or how many um
you know, favors that they've donefor the community. It's about that organ
and you walk into that space,that's sterile space that's been prepared for you
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to go in and make the repairof that organ. That's it with no
bias nomo and a lot of patientsare like, well, can I meet
my surgeon? Can you talk tome before, Katie? And and so
when when some surgeons are like,no, I don't want to meet too
before, or I'll come check inon you later, like forming no personal
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relationship. That's in order to beable to do the job. And it
becomes a really competitive type of industryas far as the opportunities that you have
to cut and make a thing rightand learn and teach somebody, each one,
teach one. That's really what thatmentality was about. So for me,
the Nazi kind of persona was reallyto keep everybody away from me so
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that I could get ahead, sothat I could go on my path of
success that I had planned out formyself without you know, getting emotionally involved
with any of my co workers andespecially with patients. Rules that I broke
all the time as a human being. But that was certainly it sounds like
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it was that struggle between brilliant surgeonand compassionate human right right exactly. And
as a surgeons, a lot oftimes they try to focus less on that
compassion part because you're gonna lose peopleit's just a part of the deal,
and that will pen will you breakyou um after a while. So if
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you're not looking at those situations likewhat went wrong? What can I learn?
How can I do this better?I bet you I'll never make that
mistake again. That that becomes youredge in a way. So with experience
you can kind of learn to marrythe two right where is that come back?
You know that the patient really needsto meet you before you go cut
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them, you know you can youcan kind of figure out where that is.
But I completely understand that school ofthought. So when you were shadowing
and getting into character, how closedid you get to real surgery? Closer
then I ever thought. I wasalways expected to be watching from a gallery
somewhere just no, I was onthe floor. Was not like the one
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that stands out the most to meis m five month old baby girl with
a hole in her heart. SoI was there too, from the time
she was just on the table,you know, waiting, and people were
getting the room together, and I'mlike, Okay, at some point they're
gonna send me out. No,No, I got gowned right there on
the floor, and then they drapedher and got her ready and then opened
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the field so that, you know, the the attending could come in and
do what he needed to do.And I mean, it was like,
can you see it? I'm like, how did you hold it together?
How did you because you didn't wantto be you just completely fascinating to me.
It was fascinating watching the profusion machinehooked up to the baby's heart and
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then taking over the job of theheart so that the field could stay clean.
I was amazed at how clean ourinsides were, you know, and
that and then this heart is justsitting here in perfect form, you know,
beating and ready, but it needsto repair. And I was able
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to look over and appreciate everyone's jobin the room because everybody knew what they
were in the room for. You'renot in panic all the time. It's
not trauma all the time. Sometimesit's you know, we've we've got this
sterile environment and we're going to dothis repair and we're going to close this
baby girl up so she can havea life. And it was I thought
it was beautiful. It was sobeautiful. I think that speaks a lot
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to you too, that you seethe beauty and in science and around you
to really appreciate the adventure of it. Oh goodness. Yeah, and I
also watched a Cesarean section. Well, I have three, and I've never
watched. Let me tell you,it's fascinating. There are all these layers
(31:36):
that you cut through, you cutthe skin and then you know, I
remember my husband saying, because thatwas the most barbaric thing I've ever seen.
I don't think it's changed since Caesar'stime. They cut through all the
layers and then finally get to theuterus and then slip that layer open,
get the pole baby out, andthen take out all of the craft that
hasn't come out, and then putall of those pieces back together again summer
(31:57):
sown, summer stable, you know, just to put those layers back.
They together good, you know,over time. But I mean, it's
tremendous what happens to the body andyou're not aware of it. You feel
stuff, you feel pressure kind of, but it's it's kind of a mystery
(32:19):
because the curtain is right there.Well, yeah, all the mystery was
taken away being on the other side. So when you had to deal with
doctors in personal life or family life, do they treat you like you're a
doctor because you know, a lotof people have trouble making the difference.
I'm usually always there as a parent, right when raising three kids that as
a parent, I'm always there anddid I have one daughter that has a
(32:44):
chronic pain illness with cyclic vomiting andmitochondrial disease, and we were in the
presence of doctors all the time,and I was really regnizant of making sure
that I'm just the parent, LikeI don't know any this. I feel
like you need to be able togive them all the information that they need.
(33:05):
What you saw, when did thingsstart? You know, what does
this look like? But in noway do I finish anybody's sentences, my
everything on my end as a question, because don't be confused, I don't
know. So you you you've hadthis spectacular career and in this groundbreaking television
(33:29):
show, what's next for you?Do you think about it? Wow?
I um? Ever since I graduatedcollege and I was doing a play off
Broadway at the Manetta Lane Theater,and I was in the Union Actor's Equity
and I had my little card andI had my medical insurance. I had
made it. That was it.That's what I went to school for.
(33:51):
That's what my degree was all about. Um, and everything after that was
the icing on the cake. EspeciallyI've moved to the Orc in order to
do Broadway, and I've had thegood fortune of being able to participate in
four Broadway productions so far. Youknow, those were the things that were
on my list. So everything afterthis, being in a show that was
(34:15):
this successful, becoming a dramatic seriestelevision director icing on the cake. So
when you were doing Chicago, Yes, it was in between some grades season.
Yeah, this after season nine,between season eight and season nine,
or between season nine and season ten, one of those two. How was
(34:37):
it switching over the theater? Oh? It was cool because you know,
I had months to get ready.So basically, like my last month of
Grades, I was you know,learning the dialogue. I went, you
know, straight into rehearsal. Ithink I had like three weeks of rehearsal
and then I performed for either fourto six weeks. I was on and
(35:00):
it was a blast. It wasan absolute blast. It was getting my
taste of Broadway again because it wasyou know time because it had been a
minute. But the show just standsup through all kinds of time. It
just never gets old and it wasjust a joy and a pleasure to go
(35:20):
in and contribute to the thing thatis already there. You know, it's
like it didn't need me. Soif I'm coming in, I want to
be able to add and you know, help people play. And so you've
directed television, are you looking todirect theater at all? So I always
thought that I would be a theaterdirector and that, you know, conceptually,
(35:42):
that's how I thought. I usedto love to, you know,
take a play and figure out howdo I stand this up on its feet?
So ultimately, yeah, I wouldlove the space to be able to
figure out, you know, whenit's right, when to do that,
where to do that. Over thequarantine time for the ensemble theater in Houston,
(36:07):
I did like a zoom and thatwas kind of cool, I was
it was sort of a hybrid ofthe live theater and then like directing the
zoom camera, like you know,when do you go on? But yeah,
I mean theater, that's my home, that's where my heart is,
So you know, I have tosee what opportunity shows up for that I
do. I do. You alsowanted to say, so you're a working
(36:29):
mom. We both have three kids. My kids are in their twenties.
Now, what's your secret? Howyou kept it together? I wake up
every day with the intention of doingthings the way we planned, knowing that
you have to leave room for thingsnot to go as planned. And then
you eat in there somewhere, andthen you get to the end of the
(36:51):
day and you go, we didit. Oh my, that is so
My mine is we got through today. That's all I got. Like,
nothing else is yeah, you goagain, It depend on yeah. So
let's go back to that Montgomery Wardpageant wee windy Model of the Year.
I'm so excited. I'm getting talkedto the wee windy Model of the Year.
(37:12):
So when that awful girl came upto you and told you you weren't
gonna win, now, knowing everythingyou do, now, what would you
tell that six year old? Well, see, that's the thing is,
she wasn't an awful girl. Shewas her. And I know that she
had one of those moms, youknow, was the center of the crowd.
(37:37):
And I have a you know,vivid memory of her mom out in
the audience, standing with you know, other moms, and I was like,
okay, well that's where she gotit from. Later, I was
able to say, oh, that'swhere she got it from. But at
the time, she was just theother kid in my charm school. There
(37:58):
wasn't anything awful about her, andshe was saying what she had heard.
It didn't come from her. Youknow that that's something that had to be
taught. The biggest thing I couldsay to her was actually what it was.
It wasn't about what I said,It's about what I showed. So
she got to learn at six thatwhat her mom taught her was wrong.
(38:22):
Right. Thanks for allowing me tojust take a jump into your life.
Thanks so much for joining us,Chandra. It was great to be with
you, and I for one amlooking forward to season nineteen of Gray's Anatomy.
Come back to the Edge with usnext time when we do is sit
down with the producer of this isUs, ken Ollen. I look forward
(38:45):
to seeing you that you've been listeningto On the Edge, a podcast series
from the Creative Coalition hosted by CreativeCoalition CEO Robin Bronk. For more information
on how you can protect funding forthe arts and harnessed the power of the
arts to promote social good, visitus at the Creative Coalition dot org.
This is On the Edge, apodcast series from the Creative Coalition featuring conversations
with an edge and chats with personalitiesfrom the world of entertainment. Now here's
your host, Creative Coalition CEO RobinBronk. Welcome listeners to On the Edge.
Today's guest is Emmy Award nominee ChandraWilson, doctor Miranda Bailey. To
(00:30):
millions from the iconic and record breakingseries Raise Anatomy, which was just renewed
for its nineteenth season. Let's welcomeChandra to the Edge. It's my pleasure
to say hey to Chandra Wilson today, my heart to my new friend of
the Creative Coalition. You did sucha spectacularly moving PSA for us, so
(00:57):
let's show hard then thank you thatthis was the SA we did to encourage
vaccines for COVID and you did itwith a real in real life nurse,
and you were so kind after avery long PSA filming to do a shout
out to the nurse in real lifewho says you were so inspirational in her
career. I hope that she lovesseeing all three of us on that same
(01:21):
pisa that she has it on continuousplay. I mean, you are her
heroes, so it was it wasquite an act of love and thank you
on behalf of Alex our real lifenurse. Very very cool. So speaking
of that show, are you inyour hundredth season? But it feels like
it's sometimes and then sometimes it feelslike the second it's it's. It's very
(01:44):
strange the way time goes. Whatis that in TV land? You know,
to be able to to have thatexperience and to be able to grow
a character from you know what theywere eighteen seasons ago in time you know,
to now, I think that's beenone of the big joy things that
(02:05):
I've gotten out of it is uhfor you know, people like we were
just talking about, who can seea character I have a dream of something
and then take the steps towards gettingit and then attain that, you know,
being chief of Surgery in about thetime that it would normally take.
So that's that's been really cool.I have so many things to pack into
(02:25):
my time with you, but Iwant to hear first about Chandra. Yeah,
where you grew up in Texas?Yes, Houston born and raised.
Do you feel like a Texan?Are you a Texan at heart? I
absolutely am in in every way possible. I always feel like I'm, you
know, a transplant to other places. But you know, my roots and
(02:46):
and everything about who I am isbecause I grew up in Houston. I
grew up in Houston in the seventies. I grew up right after desegregation in
schools, growing up in a blackneighborhood. I went to a magnet elementary
school that buzzed in the white kidsto my school. So I always had,
(03:09):
you know, interracial classrooms, andyou know, that was never an
issue. I didn't understand though,that they were being brought to the school
because usually it was the other wayaround. It wasn't until middle school that
I realized, oh that that wasthat was different. That wasn't what everybody
(03:30):
else's experience was. It was abig deal. We were doing you know,
music and all of the performing artsfrom kindergarten. You know, we
were learning how to play instruments thatstarted off with the violin, and we
had piano lessons and we always didour plays. Um. So the arts
was fully integrated into our curriculum.Um who knew that that was not what
(03:54):
everybody had. So it's not untillater when these things started getting taken away.
Um that I realized, wow,I you know, as far as
upbringings go, I was kind ofokay, Um, race did Race did
hit me, young m as faras you know, being called the inn
(04:17):
word or being put in situation whereI was the only you know, black
child in the room or the onlyblack child and the dance ensemble. But
there was always some angel around thatwas really glad that I was there and
made all those words and all thoseinferences and all it gave them no value.
(04:41):
So I learned early, like fiveyears old, that the inn word
has no value. Because you know, I still won we Windy Model of
the Year. In nineteen seventy six. It was um so that we're talking
about charm school, and the charmschool was attached to the Inngom Rewards department
store. Oh Montgomery Ward. Yeah. So I went to Montgomer Rewards form
(05:04):
my charm school lessons on Saturday,and it culminated in a pageant where we
modeled clothes from Montgomer Rewards. Andso this pageant, I thought that there
was one other black girl in mycharm class. But I was behind the
curtain, you know, before itwas my turn to go up and do
(05:27):
my routine, and a little girl, a little white girl, let me
know that I wasn't going to win. And I was like, wow,
how you know already? She said, because you're a niggah. I was
like, oh, okay, andI don't think I knew what that was
at the time. And I wentand I did my little routine or whatever.
Wait, wait, what was yourroutine? You know? You walked
(05:47):
out modeled. It was a littlepant suit, did a little back and
forth, did a little thing,did a little lunge, did a little
and I went to leave and theywere like, wait, hey, we're
not done. We're not done.So I remember I had to stand at
the edge of the stage for awhile until they finished, you know,
describing everything. So I got down, I went and I talked to my
mom and I said, Mom,so and so said that I wasn't gonna
(06:09):
win because I was a nigger.And she said, no, you're not
gonna win because that whole little lunchsection in the middle that we've been practicing.
But you didn't do that. That'swhy you had to wait, because
the routine wasn't long enough. Youforgot the lunch, just missed the other
thing. It was just missed.But I did win. I did the
best I could with what I did. Um. So that's why I say
(06:30):
that the word it had no meaning, um, you know to me.
So it wasn't something even growing upin the South, that that was something
to hold me back, you know. It was like a whatever. And
so I was fortunate in a wayto get that early to not have to
carry a word, you know,with me like an albatross. We were
(06:51):
about the only Jewish family in mytown in South Carolina, and for me,
you always remembered it. You talkabout it all the time. Yeah,
but you know we were the Jewishfamily. Yeah. So it becomes
what does different mean, right?And what does it mean for your life?
(07:12):
Or is that the blessing? Isthat the blessing on your life?
Um? You know that's up tosome other person in history to figure out
what that was for me. Butit was just one of the early things
that I knew shouldn't be a hindrancein life, right with getting into college,
with deciding to be an actor,with um auditions that I probably wasn't
(07:40):
right for but was able to besubmitted for, there was no reason not
to try there was no reason notto, you know, throw my hat
in the ring for whatever it isthat I wanted to do that. There
really was nothing. The only thingthat could stop me is if I didn't
try. What was the edgiest whatwas the biggest risk you took them?
Was it going to NYU? SoI guess the story that comes to mind
(08:03):
was when I was in and thisis good problems. I learned later on,
it's really good problems. I wasa sophomore at NYU and I was
doing a production of Pippin and Iwas playing the leading player. And that
sophomore year, I finally got amanager and I started going out auditioning.
Wait, this was an NYU.You got a man? Yeah? Yeah,
(08:24):
you are really good stuff. Imean, I need that's really impressive.
You know. We were encouraged,for the most part not to work,
you know outside, just try tofocus on school. Um, but
you know whatever, I get mytoe wed, it's okay. Well,
I got this great opportunity to auditionfor Joseph Papp at the Public Theater,
(08:46):
um my sophomore year for a playcalled The Forbidden City, and um,
I didn't get it, but theywanted me to be the understudy. And
you know, my manager and theagent that had submitted me, they were
so exciting, you gotta get towork with Joe and you're gonna be at
the public theater. And I waslike, oh, shoot, but I'm
(09:07):
you know, I'm leading player overhere in Pippo. And they're like,
well, that's just for school,don't worry about that. But I was
like, well, I'm leading player. And the agent couldn't understand where there
was an issue. So we werein you had some morality? You had
oh I don't know if those wordsare at twenty jee. I just remember
being so frustrated by this. Wewere in tech, you know, and
(09:30):
and the show was going to betwo weeks, and I was talking to
my director about it, and hesaid, child, march yourself over there
that public theater. Go talk toJoseph Papp. You tell him you're right
across the street here, and whyyou can y'all just hold on for two
weeks and you'll be right now.Did you do that? Absolutely? Did?
But I couldn't get past casting,and I went to Rosmarie Tishner and
(09:52):
I was like, I want tosee Joe. I want to see Joe
what are you like nineteen then twenty? I want to see Joe. I
don't know what. And she thoughtit was really funny. That is hilarious,
she said, but baby, whatif something happens like during that first
week and you have to go onbut you're you know, on stage,
you know, the main stage,then why you you wouldn't be available.
(10:13):
But but it's okay, thank you, thank you for coming over. Long
story short, I felt fine aboutit because I wasn't gonna leave, you
know, my show in the lurch, because you know, this opportunity was
here and Joe and whatever. Anyway, so the agent never wanted to see
me ever again, and she waslike, you have integrity, Chandre,
It's fine, you know whatever.And the play went great, and literally
(10:39):
the day before we closed, Rosemarycaught me back and she said, are
you ready now? I was like, yeah. A girl who was in
the role got a part on theCosby Show. She needed to leave.
So the understudy went on and Iwas able to go in. Wow,
that is so great. You justI just like envision you watching yourself over
(11:01):
is you don't even ask for misterpap Joe. How so I've had people
all my life like instill in me. Girl, You're fine, go ahead,
just be you and go ahead onand you know do you don't worry
about names, don't worry about labels, don't worry about it. Just go
on ahead and and go. Theonly thing, the only thing that will
(11:22):
stop you is if you don't go. If you don't go, certainly you
have no shot. Just go ahead, on and go. I love that.
I love that. So talk alittle bit about your Gray's Anatomy audition.
Yeah, like you haven't talked aboutit before, but I want to
know about it. You want toknow. So it was a regular,
(11:43):
you know, New York audition,and this was Rosalie Joseph, who was
at ABC had seen me for many, you know years, over the years
for different things. The role wasfor a short, white blonde female there
rigid um and they're kind of likeyour mom. Maybe. I was like,
(12:03):
I'm gonna go in with my bestBacT and that was enough to get
me to LA for my studio andmy network auditions. I went into the
studio audition and met with the director. We had like a private session,
and I believe at the other endof the conference table was Betsy Beers,
(12:24):
and Shanda Rhymes, who I hadno clue who they were, and they
didn't really like introduce themselves like youknow, with the producers or with this.
They were like other people in theroom. So I'm, you know,
working with the director. I didthat, and then we found out
that I was going to get calledto go into Network. So I went
(12:46):
to Universal Studios with my two daughtersthat I had brought. I had like
about a five hour break, soI got ready to go to the network
audition. And the note that Igot from my agent, and I'm not
sure where it came from casting orwho have you, was make sure you
take command of the room. Iwas like wow, So that translated to
(13:07):
me that as soon as I walkedthrough the door, the people in the
theater needed to hear my feet,to hear my heels, I'm shutting down.
Were you wearing cap shoes? Therite should have been needed to hear
it all the way. And Iwalked in in the part ready to say
the words I need to say.Go and then the audition ended and they
(13:33):
said okay, bye, have anice flight, you know, back to
New York. And I was like, oh wow, that was it.
The whole I have a nice flightthing walking down the stairs at Disney.
The other actress who had auditioned rightbefore me was also doing a play in
New York, and they all cameout like we're trying to get tickets,
and it was like a whole thing. I was like, oh, okay.
(13:54):
I believe it was the next dayor maybe two days later they told
me that I booked it. Wow. Since then, you've directed a number
of episodes as well. Yes,yes, I have, and was directing
always a passion. No, Inever envisioned myself as a series, dramatic
series television director. Maybe for thetheater, because that was my upbringing and
(14:16):
that's what I knew, and youknow, that was my comfort zone.
But it was at some point inseason four when my producer Rob Korn came
to me and said, you know, you need to consider directing. You
should do this. I think you'dbe good at this. And I didn't
know what it was. I wasthe actor that never knew where the cameras
were. I showed up and didmy play every single time, you know,
(14:39):
with no knowledge of camera. Iwas on my mark and what I'm
supposed to do, and you knowit was never about, oh, it's
your coverage, so do It's like, I didn't know what that was.
I just knew how to do theplay every time. So I had to
start paying attention to where the cameraswere and why, and going over to
the village and looking at the waythe shots were set up and why.
(15:01):
I was a person that only watchedthe final product when everybody else saw it
on Sunday night. You know,at that time, I was taking a
risk absolutely, and plus that youwere doing with the people that you have
to work with every day and lookin the face again. Yeah, but
I had a nice chunk of time. My director of photography gave me a
book of the five season of cinematographythat he was like, learned this,
(15:24):
know this and that day one andthen you'll be ready. So I studied,
you know, all through season four. I was supposed to directing season
five, but Bailey's storylines got kindof heavy in season five, so we
pushed to season six. So Ifinally got my shot in season six,
and the episode was a Derek Shepherdcentric episode that was really kind of,
(15:50):
you know, a set apart fromthings that we had done in the past.
He provided the voiceover in the episode, so I was kind of allowed
some liberty to not have to lookexactly like Grey's Anatomy, which was good.
And so I did it and Iwas like, Yay, that was
it. That was my shot.And then a month later my executive producer
(16:11):
came back to me and said,I need you to do another one,
and I was like, that's time. I asked why. He said,
because you're good at it, andbecause and we need you to cars.
So ever since then, I've directedto a season. I'm a longtime fan
of the show, and in theshow, you all have tackled so many
(16:33):
taboo issues and brought to light.And I think you were at one of
the Creative Collision events where we talkabout the power of the entertainment industry to
open the doors and the windows,two issues that we don't want to talk
about, and I was actually goingto just talk to you and get your
opinion. One of the issues thatwe're tackling now. It's interesting because it
affects four out of ten viewers.It's it's obesity. It's the last of
(17:00):
the silent diseases. It's what we'retrying to do again through the creative pulision
and through our platforms is to takethe stigma away from it, similar to
what you know we helped do withmental illness. And so I think that
there was an episode early on whereyou talked about it in probably a way
that it hadn't been talked about beforebecause I was looking. You know,
(17:22):
we've been doing research on episodics thathave tackled it, and very few episodics
have I don't know if you rememberthis episode where you did talk about obesity
and it was about a patient whohad obesity. But you know, knowing
what you do and how to bringissues to the forefront, what does it
take to get to you know,I'm sure people are pitching diseases to you
(17:47):
and to get focused all the time. If you were going to take this
issue of obesity, why would thedoctors in your hospital care about it?
What would it take? And reallyinteresting, based on last year and being
purposeful about wanting to affect healthcare goingforward, if you tap back to the
(18:08):
Obama administration where the whole purpose ofthe Affordable Care Act was to stop people
early enough, right to change thehabits early enough so that later on we're
not dealing so much with the heartdisease, with the with the diabetes,
with obesity, because we've changed thehabits early on and we've gotten medical intervention
(18:33):
early on in order to help uslater on. So that would definitely be
a reason to tackle the issue becauseI know that we have we have to
embrace body positive because that affects ourmental health. When we can't, you
(18:53):
know what I mean, it's likewe won't be able to attack anything with
our bodies from minds aren't in agreat place. So I think the order
of things ends up being mental healthfirst and then now what are we putting
in our bodies? Yeah, it'sfunny. It's a really funny thing about
the city. And specific is thatit's not in lieu of body positivity.
(19:18):
It's and it's something the creative potion. We're aware of it now. It's
this gateway to seventy two other diseases. And coming from the South, I
don't know if you can really Ican relate coming from the South where it's
like, you know, if youfry your sneaker and you know, you
know more, the more you thebetter. I don't know if you ever
ran into it, but you knowthat mentality of the South, it's all
(19:40):
about being big, and but that'swhat we are. We're we're a size
fourteen sixteen eighteen society. Like that'snormal, right, the things that you
see on TV, things in themagazines. That's something people aspire to,
something people work at trying to getto. But just you know, folks
on the regular that you know,that's where we're living. And that's because
(20:02):
of the access that we have towhat we have, which is fast food.
You know, like eating real quick. It's not about like going home
and you know, making dinner asa family, making lunch as a family,
sitting down and taking that and sittingat the table. You know.
It's just a different way that welook at food. And food has other
(20:26):
uses besides just nutrition. Socially,everything involves food. Hey let's get together,
Hey let's meet at this restaurant.Like it's all around food. So
we you know, are a societyfull of people that are used to being
full, even if it's full onstuff that's not good for you. So
(20:48):
we you know, ultimately you dowant to attack nutrition. But if you're
not in the right place to hearthat, then you're gonna think, oh,
you're looking at how I look,you're criticizing how I look and then
telling me how I'm supposed to eatbased on that, and then then you
get nowhere, you get it nowhere. It's so it's kind of funny.
(21:10):
It's where with mental illness it usedto be, you know, well,
if you just smile, then you'llfeel better, and we know, m
that's absurd, or even epilepsy onehundred years ago. If you're a better
person and you had willpower, youwouldn't have to be wouldn't. Yeah,
you know, And so it's soscience has told us that obesity is a
(21:32):
disease that you know, and it'sand it's interesting because you know, we
are looking at shows like Rays totackle it because it's something that that it's
this shame and blame which just youknow, we hope that in a couple
of years that will be as absurdas mental illness being shame and blame.
So did you I don't know ifyou remember this particular episode, but did
(21:55):
you get any feedback from it?Did you? It was I think in
two thousand and ten that it wasvery early on. I do remember that,
I remember the girl, I remembertalking about shame. It was it
was way before I was like pluggedin. It was before social media and
I don't remember right, so,you know, people would have had to
(22:15):
send letters to us, and itwas way before I was plugged in,
you know, on that level towhat the thinking was from the viewers from
what they were seeing. But onething about Grays is, and until this
last season, as far as socialissues or moral issues are concerned, we
(22:37):
and even racial issues. As opposedto telling our audiences what they should think
or how they should feel or whatthey should think is important, we just
would show them, right, Wewould show them these characters, show them
these situations, show them this medicalyou know, and usually the patient would
(23:00):
say whatever their perspective was about that, and it was left up to the
audience then to decide if that madeany sense at all, or if that
had value, or if that wasright. When I was doing the research
on it, I had forgotten aboutthat episode, but then when I saw
it, I remembered it. I'msure you get you know, oh,
(23:21):
talk about this issue, talk aboutthat issue. You have your own issues
that you probably you know, liketo bring to the front. We know
that this a couple of seconds onTV can change the facest thing. So
this it's funny. Obesity. Itwas the biggest epidemic before the pandemic,
yet it's not addressed. I thinkyour episode, right, this was an
(23:42):
extremely obese patient and I remember wewere going surgically to try to remove some
layers, if I remember right,and that and that that was going to
be incredibly dangerous and it was somethingthat she may not survive because of the
blood vessels and not being able totell the difference between you know, what
(24:03):
was you know, something that wecould cut and otherwise, and that she
had just kind of put it onone of the doctors that they were judging
her because she allowed herself to getinto that position. But there was no
judgment upon it. You know,our jobs as surgeons, which we would
(24:25):
always try to come back to,is to look at it from a medical
standpoint and look at it from asurgical standpoint. The other end of that
that that's the work that the patienthas to do, that's the work that
your social worker has to do,that's the work that a therapist has to
do. It. At this point, it doesn't do any good to blame.
It's like, this is where weare, so now what do we
do? And even though that's theway we kind of attack things in the
(24:49):
past. Because of COVID, thiswas one of the seasons where then all
bets were off. Call it whatit is. Is it racism, is
it just en franchisement, is ita lack of equity, whatever it is,
call the thing by name, becauseit doesn't make sense not to do
it anymore. And I wouldn't besurprised if in the going forward, without
(25:12):
being the preachers, you know,or the police of integrity, that it's
really important to call things by names. Interesting, especially in this case because
we talk about big bone, dowe talk about you know whatever? And
and this word obesity, it's wewhisper it's it's because it makes it seems
(25:34):
like something's wrong as opposed to know, when you look at something medically,
when you get to this number that'sconsidered obese, it doesn't make sense because
you feel fine, um, youknow, But it's about having to learn
what are the consequences for and itand it you know, it comes down
(25:56):
to food. But there's so manyfactors that go along with food, emotional
factors, environmental factors, which whichjust makes it huge and something that you
know, so many people are aresuffering with without even knowing it, you
know, because if it's your norm, like you're saying, we're from the
South of everybody in the family isbig boned and you big boned doo,
(26:21):
then what's the problem? You know? As I'm sitting here listening to you,
I feel like I'm talking to themost humane and comforting doctor. How
did you train to be Miranda Bailey? Did you shadow real doctors? We
did? We did, but specificallyfor grades we are surgical rotation and that's
(26:42):
something that we put that that hasprecedents, that's in the front. And
the reason for that is there's adifferent mentality, even though surgeons may not
want to say so, that involvesbeing the cutters. You. What I
learned from the people that I followedwas that it doesn't It's not about the
(27:04):
person that's on the table. It'snot about their color, their ethnicity,
what they did last Tuesday, whothey cursed out, or how many um
you know, favors that they've donefor the community. It's about that organ
and you walk into that space,that's sterile space that's been prepared for you
(27:26):
to go in and make the repairof that organ. That's it with no
bias nomo and a lot of patientsare like, well, can I meet
my surgeon? Can you talk tome before, Katie? And and so
when when some surgeons are like,no, I don't want to meet too
before, or I'll come check inon you later, like forming no personal
(27:48):
relationship. That's in order to beable to do the job. And it
becomes a really competitive type of industryas far as the opportunities that you have
to cut and make a thing rightand learn and teach somebody, each one,
teach one. That's really what thatmentality was about. So for me,
the Nazi kind of persona was reallyto keep everybody away from me so
(28:12):
that I could get ahead, sothat I could go on my path of
success that I had planned out formyself without you know, getting emotionally involved
with any of my co workers andespecially with patients. Rules that I broke
all the time as a human being. But that was certainly it sounds like
(28:33):
it was that struggle between brilliant surgeonand compassionate human right right exactly. And
as a surgeons, a lot oftimes they try to focus less on that
compassion part because you're gonna lose peopleit's just a part of the deal,
and that will pen will you breakyou um after a while. So if
(29:02):
you're not looking at those situations likewhat went wrong? What can I learn?
How can I do this better?I bet you I'll never make that
mistake again. That that becomes youredge in a way. So with experience
you can kind of learn to marrythe two right where is that come back?
You know that the patient really needsto meet you before you go cut
(29:22):
them, you know you can youcan kind of figure out where that is.
But I completely understand that school ofthought. So when you were shadowing
and getting into character, how closedid you get to real surgery? Closer
then I ever thought. I wasalways expected to be watching from a gallery
somewhere just no, I was onthe floor. Was not like the one
(29:45):
that stands out the most to meis m five month old baby girl with
a hole in her heart. SoI was there too, from the time
she was just on the table,you know, waiting, and people were
getting the room together, and I'mlike, Okay, at some point they're
gonna send me out. No,No, I got gowned right there on
the floor, and then they drapedher and got her ready and then opened
(30:10):
the field so that, you know, the the attending could come in and
do what he needed to do.And I mean, it was like,
can you see it? I'm like, how did you hold it together?
How did you because you didn't wantto be you just completely fascinating to me.
It was fascinating watching the profusion machinehooked up to the baby's heart and
(30:30):
then taking over the job of theheart so that the field could stay clean.
I was amazed at how clean ourinsides were, you know, and
that and then this heart is justsitting here in perfect form, you know,
beating and ready, but it needsto repair. And I was able
(30:52):
to look over and appreciate everyone's jobin the room because everybody knew what they
were in the room for. You'renot in panic all the time. It's
not trauma all the time. Sometimesit's you know, we've we've got this
sterile environment and we're going to dothis repair and we're going to close this
baby girl up so she can havea life. And it was I thought
it was beautiful. It was sobeautiful. I think that speaks a lot
(31:15):
to you too, that you seethe beauty and in science and around you
to really appreciate the adventure of it. Oh goodness. Yeah, and I
also watched a Cesarean section. Well, I have three, and I've never
watched. Let me tell you,it's fascinating. There are all these layers
(31:36):
that you cut through, you cutthe skin and then you know, I
remember my husband saying, because thatwas the most barbaric thing I've ever seen.
I don't think it's changed since Caesar'stime. They cut through all the
layers and then finally get to theuterus and then slip that layer open,
get the pole baby out, andthen take out all of the craft that
hasn't come out, and then putall of those pieces back together again summer
(31:57):
sown, summer stable, you know, just to put those layers back.
They together good, you know,over time. But I mean, it's
tremendous what happens to the body andyou're not aware of it. You feel
stuff, you feel pressure kind of, but it's it's kind of a mystery
(32:19):
because the curtain is right there.Well, yeah, all the mystery was
taken away being on the other side. So when you had to deal with
doctors in personal life or family life, do they treat you like you're a
doctor because you know, a lotof people have trouble making the difference.
I'm usually always there as a parent, right when raising three kids that as
a parent, I'm always there anddid I have one daughter that has a
(32:44):
chronic pain illness with cyclic vomiting andmitochondrial disease, and we were in the
presence of doctors all the time,and I was really regnizant of making sure
that I'm just the parent, LikeI don't know any this. I feel
like you need to be able togive them all the information that they need.
(33:05):
What you saw, when did thingsstart? You know, what does
this look like? But in noway do I finish anybody's sentences, my
everything on my end as a question, because don't be confused, I don't
know. So you you you've hadthis spectacular career and in this groundbreaking television
(33:29):
show, what's next for you?Do you think about it? Wow?
I um? Ever since I graduatedcollege and I was doing a play off
Broadway at the Manetta Lane Theater,and I was in the Union Actor's Equity
and I had my little card andI had my medical insurance. I had
made it. That was it.That's what I went to school for.
(33:51):
That's what my degree was all about. Um, and everything after that was
the icing on the cake. EspeciallyI've moved to the Orc in order to
do Broadway, and I've had thegood fortune of being able to participate in
four Broadway productions so far. Youknow, those were the things that were
on my list. So everything afterthis, being in a show that was
(34:15):
this successful, becoming a dramatic seriestelevision director icing on the cake. So
when you were doing Chicago, Yes, it was in between some grades season.
Yeah, this after season nine,between season eight and season nine,
or between season nine and season ten, one of those two. How was
(34:37):
it switching over the theater? Oh? It was cool because you know,
I had months to get ready.So basically, like my last month of
Grades, I was you know,learning the dialogue. I went, you
know, straight into rehearsal. Ithink I had like three weeks of rehearsal
and then I performed for either fourto six weeks. I was on and
(35:00):
it was a blast. It wasan absolute blast. It was getting my
taste of Broadway again because it wasyou know time because it had been a
minute. But the show just standsup through all kinds of time. It
just never gets old and it wasjust a joy and a pleasure to go
(35:20):
in and contribute to the thing thatis already there. You know, it's
like it didn't need me. Soif I'm coming in, I want to
be able to add and you know, help people play. And so you've
directed television, are you looking todirect theater at all? So I always
thought that I would be a theaterdirector and that, you know, conceptually,
(35:42):
that's how I thought. I usedto love to, you know,
take a play and figure out howdo I stand this up on its feet?
So ultimately, yeah, I wouldlove the space to be able to
figure out, you know, whenit's right, when to do that,
where to do that. Over thequarantine time for the ensemble theater in Houston,
(36:07):
I did like a zoom and thatwas kind of cool, I was
it was sort of a hybrid ofthe live theater and then like directing the
zoom camera, like you know,when do you go on? But yeah,
I mean theater, that's my home, that's where my heart is,
So you know, I have tosee what opportunity shows up for that I
do. I do. You alsowanted to say, so you're a working
(36:29):
mom. We both have three kids. My kids are in their twenties.
Now, what's your secret? Howyou kept it together? I wake up
every day with the intention of doingthings the way we planned, knowing that
you have to leave room for thingsnot to go as planned. And then
you eat in there somewhere, andthen you get to the end of the
(36:51):
day and you go, we didit. Oh my, that is so
My mine is we got through today. That's all I got. Like,
nothing else is yeah, you goagain, It depend on yeah. So
let's go back to that Montgomery Wardpageant wee windy Model of the Year.
I'm so excited. I'm getting talkedto the wee windy Model of the Year.
(37:12):
So when that awful girl came upto you and told you you weren't
gonna win, now, knowing everythingyou do, now, what would you
tell that six year old? Well, see, that's the thing is,
she wasn't an awful girl. Shewas her. And I know that she
had one of those moms, youknow, was the center of the crowd.
(37:37):
And I have a you know,vivid memory of her mom out in
the audience, standing with you know, other moms, and I was like,
okay, well that's where she gotit from. Later, I was
able to say, oh, that'swhere she got it from. But at
the time, she was just theother kid in my charm school. There
(37:58):
wasn't anything awful about her, andshe was saying what she had heard.
It didn't come from her. Youknow that that's something that had to be
taught. The biggest thing I couldsay to her was actually what it was.
It wasn't about what I said,It's about what I showed. So
she got to learn at six thatwhat her mom taught her was wrong.
(38:22):
Right. Thanks for allowing me tojust take a jump into your life.
Thanks so much for joining us,Chandra. It was great to be with
you, and I for one amlooking forward to season nineteen of Gray's Anatomy.
Come back to the Edge with usnext time when we do is sit
down with the producer of this isUs, ken Ollen. I look forward
(38:45):
to seeing you that you've been listeningto On the Edge, a podcast series
from the Creative Coalition hosted by CreativeCoalition CEO Robin Bronk. For more information
on how you can protect funding forthe arts and harnessed the power of the
arts to promote social good, visitus at the Creative Coalition dot org.
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