Barry D. Hart: From Archaeologist to Financial Planner and Masonic Leader

What if your career path took a sharp detour from archaeology to financial planning? Join us on the latest episode of the On the Level Podcast as Right Worshipful Barry D. Hart returns to share his unique journey and the rich tapestry of his multi-generational family business, Hart Insurance. Barry's story isn't just about business; it's about family. We touch on his semi-retirement role, his son Jake's leadership in the family business, and the extraordinary reading skills of his grandson, who is on the spectrum. Plus, meet our new co-host, Matt Stone from Turkey Creek Lodge, who provides a fresh perspective on Freemasonry and his own path to becoming a Master Mason.

Ever wondered how someone transitions from the hands-on world of field archaeology to the stable yet complex realm of financial planning? Our guest takes us through his early life in Georgia, his academic pursuits in sociology and anthropology, and his hands-on experiences in archaeology. Discover the personal motivations that led him to shift careers for the sake of his growing family and how he applied his analytical skills to excel at New York Life. Hear the stories that shaped him, from the physical demands of archaeological digs to the intellectual challenges of financial planning, all while revealing the rich history of Georgia that influenced his journey.

In a chapter that speaks to resilience and adaptability, we explore the impact of smoking and the strength it took to quit amidst life's challenges. Our guest shares captivating anecdotes from his career, including the stark contrast between Hollywood's portrayal of archaeology and its real-life demands. Learn about his current hobbies like archery, motorcycling, and playing guitar, and how these passions help him navigate the health issues that prompted his career pivot. The episode delves into the camaraderie and purpose found in Freemasonry, the importance of Masonic rituals and funeral ceremonies, and the ongoing quest for unity in a polarized world. Don't miss this heartfelt and insightful conversation that spans career, family, and the enduring bonds of community.

#freemasonry #bluelodge #podcast #masonic #brotherhood

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
you've reached the internet's home for all things
masonry.
Join on the level podcast as weplumb the depths of our ancient
craft and try to unlock themysteries, dispel the fallacies
and utilize the teachings offreemasonry to unlock the
greatness within each of us.
I have you now All right.

(00:38):
There we go.
There.
It is Welcome back.
Welcome back.
Hold the applause.
Welcome back to On the LevelPodcast.
Today we have a very specialguest with us.
He's been with us before, soyou've heard his name and you
know who he is, but we didn'treally get deep enough into his
story, so I'm hoping that we canget there today.

(01:00):
If not, he'll come on again.
Welcome to the podcast, rightworshipful, barry D Hart.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Thank you, worshipful master.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yes, yes, that's for you, welcome back.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
That one guy in the crowd can clap.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
There's two.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
They just kind of like move their hands around
around.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
We have to be clever.
We have no budget.
Welcome back.
You came on last year sometime,I think.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
I think so.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
When it was Fred and Chris and now it's just Chris
and Barry so happy to have youback.
There's a lot of things wedidn't get to talk about.
Last time, when you were on, wetalked a lot about generally
Freemasonry, like in general.
We talked about what you thinkabout, like what's going on in
Freemasonry today and some ideasyou had for how things can

(01:58):
maybe get better.
But you know, what I reallywant to do is learn more about
who Barry D heart is, and Ithink that you have a crazy I
mean I don't mean crazy in a badway.
You have a very interestinglife.
You've lived a crazyinteresting life and I think
it's fascinating the stuff thatyou've done and that your

(02:19):
interests, that you'reinterested in, the things you've
spent your your life kind oflike exploring, and I don't
think most people know aboutsome of the things you've been
involved in in your life.
There are things that a lot ofpeople who know you know Heart,
heart Insurance is the companythat you are currently
semi-retired from correct, orare you fully retired now?

Speaker 2 (02:43):
I'm still on a consult basis if Jake needs some
help, and I also am very goodat Medicare and I have to
recertify every year, so I justdo it because Jake can do it,
but I already know how, so Ihelp people out if I can.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
So he's talking about his son, jake Hart.
Jacob Hart is also a member ofSarasota Lodge, number 147.
Correct Also has children andis a third generation Hart in
the Hart and Hart financialbusiness.
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (03:17):
That's right.
My dad started with New YorkLife in 1965.
I was 11 years old he startedin 1965?
Yeah, 1965.
And worked with them until well, until he was 63.

(03:37):
So and then I took over, andJake's taken over for the last
three or four years, Doing agreat job.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
And I actually I think I was there in his office
one day and he had his son therein the office.
So it's like kind of crazybecause you get to see the next
generation coming up behind himand I can tell that he's going
to be another heart in the heartand heart chain.
Even when he was a baby he's agood guy.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
He's a little on the spectrum, so five years old,
highly self-sufficient, but he'sa handful.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
I have a grandson who's about that age, who's also
on the spectrum and he's in allkinds of therapy because he
can't really speak orcommunicate very well.
Is that the case for yourgrandson?

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, Well, he's coming around.
Speech is finally coming on.
The kid reads man.
He's five years old and he canread.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
But talking's coming along and he's doing really good
on it.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Oh, he's talking fine .

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yes, he is talking at five.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
That's awesome, I mean, he told me that he has a
sister who basically does allthe translating for him, which
made it easier for him not haveto learn to talk that much.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
I think that happens.
It happened with my grandsonfrom my other son, kerry, who's
a member of Venice Lodge.
He had an older sister whounderstood his whatever he was
doing.
You know he had mumbled, shehad translated and I think that
slowed him up for a couple ofyears.
He's bright as he can beferocious reader at nine years

(05:25):
old.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
So you know it.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
just everybody's got their own schedule, yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
It looks like we were joined by Matt Stone, so I
don't know if right wishful thatyou probably know Matt Stone,
matt.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
How are you doing?

Speaker 3 (05:41):
How are you, sir?
I'm good.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Matt's actually been on the podcast like three times
and he's joining as a fullco-host, so it's going to be on
the level podcast, with Matt andChris here moving forward.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Welcome, Matt.
Thank you, sir.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Matt's from Turkey Creek Lodge and he was just made
a Master Mason with a bunch ofour members who went up to help
him get raised.
Sean Cooney and some of theother guys went just last year,
so I don't think you're even oneyear Mason yet, right?

Speaker 3 (06:10):
No, I was raised on December 9th.
And then they immediately werelike hey, by the way, you're the
junior deacon and catechisminstructor.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
That sounds about right.
Yep, sounds about right.
And you're the plumber.
I think I saw some photos.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
look like you were doing some plumbing work this
weekend.
Yeah, I had to replace twotoilets.
I swear those things are from1972 because I think that's
whenever that building was built.
Uh, so they were.
They were looking pretty roughwell, we were.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
We actually just got started with right worshipful
barry b heart and he was.
We were talking a little bitabout his family, but I really
want to go to the beginning foryou.
Can you tell us a little bitabout where you grew up and what
it was like for you?
Did you have brothers andsisters?
What happened to you and yourchild that formed who you are

(06:59):
today?

Speaker 2 (07:02):
I was born in Pensacola, Florida.
Both of my parents were in theNavy at the time and they both
got out.
Three months later we moved toMacon, Georgia.
My dad was born and raised in ahalf later, and my brother a
year and a half after that.
Apparently, my parents were onthe rhythm.

(07:29):
They had a good schedule going.
Yeah Well, good for them.
I mean, that's pretty tough,right, a year and a half apart.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, you, basically my boys are 11 and a half months
apart, and it's Irish twins.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
You know, is that what they call it.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Irish twins.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah, Irish twins.
Really good for them.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
Irish twins are just two shots lined up.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Well, which leads to the other set.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
That's right, apparently his parents did that
once every 12 months.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
Pause and effect.
Yeah, exactly, my dad in effect.
Yeah, exactly so.
My dad was a traveling salesmanin Macon.
He'd leave the house on Mondayand come back Friday night.
Oh, wow.
My mom's raising three kids byherself, which was a job, I

(08:22):
imagine.
We wound up moving.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
I'm sure you were the easiest of the three to raise
right, oh, yeah, yeah, well, youknow.
You're the oldest, so you hadto like also help out probably.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
It's less than you know how it is when you're the
oldest.
I mean when my first child wasborn, he was never going to eat
at McDonald's and never havesweets in his life.
Well by the time the third onecomes around, you're thinking
well, none of that killed thefirst one, so it must be okay,
we do let our guard down alittle bit.

(08:56):
Oh yeah, and I didn't know whatI was doing when my first kid
was born, what I was doing whenmy first kid was born.
I mean, nobody takes parentingclasses, unfortunately, or they
take them too late once they'vescrewed up, and I know that
because I taught parentingclasses for about 10 years.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
What I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, I mean I got a degree in sociology, slash
anthropology and did wind upteaching parenting classes.
We'll get to that, yeah.
So my dad left the buildingsupply and went with New York
Life in 1965.
We moved to Swainsboro, georgia, a little town about 90 miles

(09:41):
west of Savannah, and then movedto Savannah, lived there for
about a year and a half and thento Augusta, georgia, where I
graduated from high school in1972, and then went to Georgia
Southern College.
It was a college then.
It's a university now, startingin 1972.

(10:03):
Got a degree there sociology,anthropology the very first
anthropology degree out ofGeorgia Southern, really, yeah.
And then went to graduateschool at University of Florida
studying archaeology and gavethat up I'm sure comps and a
thesis were masters inarchaeology.

(10:25):
But I had life hit me in theface and realized if I wanted to
pursue archaeology I was goingto have to get a doctorate.
And I also realized that therewere people that were paying to
do archaeology.
I was doing archaeology to bepaid.

(10:45):
And I think I was pretty good atit, but there were people
paying to do it and I had a wifeand a kid on the way and
started looking for some otheroptions.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
So well, I'm just really curious what gets in your
head that you go?
You're going for a degree insociology, which is really the
study of people, right, correct?
I mean, you could have beeninto psychology, which is like
why do people do the things theydo?
But you're more interested inthe history of people, I guess

(11:18):
is why you get into sociology,right?
It's like more more historicalthan it is like the study of how
do I help someone today intheir life which is kind of like
chiastry, I think sociology is.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
Maybe they're studying what's happening, but
sociologists are definitelyworking in real world, right.
Archaeology for sure you'relooking at dead people.
Archaeology for sure you'relooking at dead people, but
anthropology, which archaeologyis a subdiscipline, is also
looking at living people and howthey're acting, because there's

(11:55):
definitely more than one fieldof anthropology out there.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
Sure, but you had settled in the end on
archaeology as your interest.
So what got you interested inarchaeology?

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Blatantly honest.
They had a field school atGeorgia Southern and so in a
field school you signed up forthe quarter, but all you did
every day, we went out.
The first field school I did wewent to an Indian site that I'd
found on the Agichi river,talked to the farmer on the

(12:30):
property and, uh, spent anentire quarter out there doing
archeology work.
We mapped the site, we starteddigging.
Uh, you know the whole thing.
So learning how to be anarcheologist Wow, and that was
know the whole thing.
So learning how to be anarchaeologist Wow, and that was
fun, man, that was an awful lotof fun.
I wound up taking a secondfield school in Riceboro,

(12:54):
georgia.
So we left on Monday, went andrented a house in this little
town near Savannah, georgia.
We were at an old riceplantation.
Out in the swamp.
I've seen some pretty badmosquitoes.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
It gets hot down there too.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
I grew up in Georgia it's also a super weird thing.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
My dad's family is from and they still live up.
There is in Bostwick where theyhave the Cotton Gin Festival,
right.
So you think of Georgia, youthink of pecans, cotton and
peaches and that's about it.
But no, you're like oh, theyhave a rice field in a random
location in.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Georgia pre Revolutionary War.
So rice plantations were theindustry in the colonies,
especially in the South.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Really.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
So all of those barrier islands at one time.
They're now their nationalseashores, but they had rice
plantations on them.
Rice was big back in the 1600s1700s.
I did not know that.
Yeah, I'm talking to a man withan archaeology degree.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
Sos, I did not know that.
Yeah, I can have a man with anarchaeology degree, so he's
going to teach us something.
Yeah, really.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, so that was a lot of fun and I realized I had
an aptitude for it and gotaccepted at graduate school in
Florida, and so that's how thathappened and it literally made
my living.
It wasn't much of a living forseven years doing archaeology

(14:33):
work Either you know, working ina lab while I was at school, or
in the summer I was usually ona dig somewhere which would be
North Florida, south Georgia.
I did some work in Alabama,mississippi, and this would have
all been in the 70s.
Late 70s, early 80s.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Late 70s, early 80s.
So this is okay.
And then you give it up and youget into the.
You put the tie on and you'relike, okay, I give up, I have to
go be a normal guy now, and youget into the dad's business.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Okay, let's make that a little bit better.
Here's what I was thinking is.
You know, my dad goes huntingany damn time he wants to.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Ah, and so do you.
I see, I see what drew you now.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
So when you're your own boss, you can take all the
time you want, but you alsolearn quickly that that might
not be a really good idea.
But that was the attraction.
And you know, at the end of theday, new York Life everybody
thinks life insurance and,believe me, we are the biggest

(15:46):
and highest rated life insurancecompany out there.
But we're all into financialplanning as well.
And that I saw, as I didn'tknow crap about money and I
figured, well, this would be areally good way to learn about
it, and I did.

(16:13):
I did so when I came into theinsurance field.
You know I had some questions,but here's what I liked about it
is I got to help people and Idid a lot.
I mean you deliver a tax freecheck for one hundred thousand
or a million dollars.
It does an awful lot for thesurviving family.
So that was that.
And then I mean I've got everydesignation I think known to

(16:36):
financial planners and that wasfun.
So I started with CharteredLife Underwriter at CLU.
You'll see it on some guys'cards.
That was 10 college courses,and then I added Chartered
Financial Consultant and there'sabout seven of them and I like
that.
I like learning yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
So you got out of archaeology in the early, early
80s.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
we'll say I got married in 85, and that was the
end of my official.
I was actually one of the twostate archaeologists for the
Department of Transportation inGeorgia, at the time living in
Atlanta, and met my first wifethere, and we got married and
the next day moved to florida,the reason being my mom had just

(17:27):
had a heart attack the daybefore her 50th birthday.
She was uh, that's young, big,yeah, smoker, you know and uh,
that's my age now she was 49yeah damn, I had a heart attack
at 48 and a bypass at 49, beinga secondhand smoker.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, we didn't have much choice in that when we were
kids, I mean it wasn't uncommon.
I mean for me even, you know,and I'm a little younger than
you but it wasn't uncommon forme to be driving to school in
the morning in the snow, withthe windows rolled up and my mom
smoking a cigarette and I'mdying the whole way to school.
Right, she's like she doesn'tcare.

(18:12):
Nobody knew about it, nobodyeven thought this might not be
good.
They just they just did it.
Everyone did it.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
You know she tried to quit after that heart attack
and I'm pretty sure the stressmight have killed her.
She lived 13 years.
And oddly enough, a week aftermy mom quit, my mom died, my dad
quit and never smoked again.
It's just and he tried.
Man he would get so close andmy mouth would make his life so

(18:44):
miserable He'd have to go back,but he quit and then wound up
marrying a woman that smoked butnever went back, so that's a
bad thing.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
That's strength right there, to be around and not
fall back into it.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
I know I don't think he liked it.
He got close to quitting acouple of times while she was
alive, but uh so when did thatwork?
Both ways you were smoking too,right I didn't I quit smoking
cigarettes when I was 22?

Speaker 1 (19:15):
oh, early on or didn't, didn't like it anyway.
So 1981 indiana jones comes1981, indiana Jones comes out.
Yeah, this doesn't make youwant to stay an archaeologist?

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Well, I was already an archaeologist Right, and it
was a fun movie.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
And then 1984, the second Indiana Jones comes out.
Now it's really popular.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
I know, and you're like, this might not be for me-
I'm just really curious how manyunderground Nazis right Worsh
has punched in the face or shotin the street or something like
that.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
So there's two problems here.
One is I never got attacked bya huge ball or monsters or
anything.
So, my experience wasn't quitethe one.
His was Actually.
There's parts of that that youhave to appreciate.
Nobody tried to kill me.
I take that back.
I got shot at once when I wasan archaeologist.

(20:12):
But other than that, and Idon't think he was trying to
kill me, I think he was tryingto scare me.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
But he ends up giving me all the bones.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
So yeah, indiana Jones was, was great and had you
know what.
At the end of the day, a fieldarchaeologist is a ditch digger
yeah you did ditches very slowand very neatly, but you got a
shovel in your hands so uh in1973 I came down to Sarasota.

(20:48):
I had a cousin who owned aplumbing company and wasn't
married, didn't have any kidsand my dad's going.
And it was right after my firstyear of college.
So my grades had gone from A'sto B's, to B's to C's, to C's,
to D's and my dad's thinking,well, maybe you don't need to
have a college degree.
So I came down here and I'mliving out of this guy's office

(21:11):
on the weekends and on Mondaymorning we loaded up, went to
Clearwater and we were layingplumbing for a trailer park up
there.
So I just followed a backhoe 12to 14 hours a day just throwing
three feet of dirt on the pipe.
Every now and then I get to dosomething else, but living out

(21:31):
of a motel, eating out of atruck stop.
And I went back to college andmade Dean's List.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
You're like yeah, no.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
You know, I'm never picking up a shovel again is
what I said.
And then I got a degree inarchaeology.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Well, you know, like even now I watch documentaries
about Egypt, for example, andyou watch the archaeologists and
the guys running the showaren't digging ditches, they're
sitting looking at maps,figuring stuff out.
You know, I feel like there'sprobably a hierarchy to that
whole archaeology situation.
You start out digging but youwind up in an office, somewhere

(22:13):
you know, talking on TV.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
Well, the feel part's fine.
I mean digging's digging andit's hot and there's mosquitoes
and there's this and that, butit's fun.
I mean you get to go todifferent places.
You never know what you'regoing to find.
Yeah, that's exciting.
So that's kind of cool.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
What would be even worse is they're actually out
there digging all the stuff.
So they do this with thevehicle shows as well, like on
Motor Trend and Truck U andstuff like that is they have
actual mechanics that are thereworking, but the hosts of the
show they'll like leave a bolt,like quarter turn just barely in
the thread to be like, oh,we're gonna unbolt this thing,
and then the host of the showgoes over there and cracks it
off in a quarter turn.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, right, it's prepped yeah yeah, yeah, they
don't show him breaking hisfingers trying to like oh.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
Their hands are spotless at the end of the day,
for sure.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yeah, but I mean what really happens is I mean, you
look at the archaeology worldand I haven't looked at it for a
long time there were somecontractual archaeologists out
there, but a lot of that worktends to go to colleges because
they they get funding right.
Well, they've got professorsthat know what they're doing.

(23:27):
They've got students Cheaplabor, they do the work right,
what they're paying you?
To be able to do the work.
It was fun and I don't miss it.
Oddly enough, I do not belongto the local archaeology club.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
No.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
I'm under strict orders from my doctor not to use
a shovel.
Now, believe it or not, mywrist bones are—I broke both of
my wrists when I was 28.
And between that and arthritis,they're coming back to haunt me
, so I had to give up golf.
You know, my passions otherthan masonry are archery and

(24:17):
motorcycles, and I play guitar,Entertain myself, irritate my
friends.
But you need your wrists forall three of those things, and
the only way to cure what I'vegot is to start fusing stuff,
and I'm going to put that off aslong as I can.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
I know it wasn't my installation.
It might have been just theyear before my installation, but
it was an installation.
You had a bike accident and youhad one or both of your wrists
were injured in that accident.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
It was my left hand.
Yeah, it was just the left.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Okay, but you had braces on and I'm sure you
shouldn't have been doing thatinstallation, but you did it
anyways and I'm pretty sure youwent hunting right afterwards
with your bow with that injury.
So you know, some of the stuffmight be self-inflicted.
A little bit it seemed like tome.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Well, the whole broken hand was self-inflicted.
I was riding my bicycle.
I'd ridden about 10 miles and Icame up on a friend who I
actually wanted to talk to, andI ride a motorcycle, right.
So when you ride a motorcycle,the last thing you do is you
pull in your front brake withyour left, you pull in your

(25:27):
clutch with your left hand.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
That's the front brake on a bicycle and I pulled
that thing in and I went facedown right over the handlebars
and got my hand up under my facethat accident should have been
so much worse than it was andgot out of there with one little
break on a bone.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
So that was pretty, but you went bow hunting with
that broken wrist, didn't you?

Speaker 2 (25:54):
It was so If it doesn't hurt, he told me I could
do it if it didn't hurt.
Hey, I was in Alabama inFebruary.
We're going out Monday morning.
Everybody else is out in thestand.
I waited until the bathroomscleared, come out of the shower.
It rained all day.
The day before I hit the secondstep on the porch and my feet

(26:16):
went to the sky.
First thing to land was my back.
I knew I'd broke at least onerib.
I hunted until Thursday and andfinally, when I got to go to
the emergency room, it wasindeed a broken rib.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
But they kept hunting anyways first of all.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
I mean you're already there that's exactly right, and
you're gonna hurt whetheryou're sitting there on the
couch watching tv or you're in adeer stand.
So I was the slowest deerhunter that week but I kept
going.
Plus, when somebody takes youto their club and it takes seven
hours to get there, maybe ninehours to get there you don't

(26:58):
want to tell them you've got togo home the first day.
You're never coming back.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
Well, you're going to get razzed for it, because
you're going to be the guy thathad to leave because you bent a
fingernail.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Exactly right.
So I hunted and it all workedout.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
What generation are you?
Are you generation Born in 54th?
I'm a boomer.
You're a boomer, okay, butyou're not a typical boomer
based on what I know about you.
Maybe we're all like this, thatstory.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
But you're not a typical boomer based on what I
know about you.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Well, that story you just told isn't typical boomer
activity, you know.
And then I compare that to thelater generations who you know
just a bruise on the ribs wouldhave caused them to go to the
emergency room immediately andstay there for two months.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
You, on the other hand, were like get out of my
way.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
I got to be.
You probably climbed 20 feetinto a deer stand with a freshly
broken rib and sat up there allday and did it day after day.
Like there's generationaldifferences here, that attitude
doesn't exist today generally.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
It doesn't necessarily exist with my
generation.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
It doesn't.
I think you're an outlier inthe boomer group.
That's not a typical boomermentality.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
I'm outrunning my honey buddies and I'm older than
them Not all of them.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
See, this is the man that was the up and downhill
both ways in the snow.
Yeah, for sure, but he actuallydid it.
Yeah for sure, but he actuallydid it.
Yeah, I actually didn'tcomplain either.
Probably not.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
You know, I visited my old hometown, swainsboro,
georgia, recently and when I wasin the third grade I rode my
bicycle to the school.
It was about three and a halffour miles.
I don't think I'll let my kiddo that today.
I know most parents aren'tletting their kids do that today
, but back then that's just theway it was.

(28:52):
We left the house in themorning and just had to be home
by dark.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
We are live streaming , by the way, guys, so we had a
guest just give you a thumbs upwhen you were telling that story
.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
So somebody's live streaming you Awesome.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, that's crazy.
I mean, to me it's.
It's crazy and, and you know, Ithink that your interest, maybe
, and the interesting lifeyou've had, or what separate you
from, not your generationpretty much every generation
like you're a unique guy.
Um, you're what?
70 now, something like that.

(29:26):
Yeah, just turned 70 and Ispent time with you and in my
mind I imagine you just a coupleyears older than me.
I was just telling you this theother day.
It's hard for me to fathom.
You're 70 years old, um, andbecause you are still going hard
and strong, like you and I havedone lectures together and
you're helping me your mind issharp and your body's still

(29:49):
strong.
So it's.
You know, what is the secret?
Is it just keep going, nomatter what?
Like, how do you stay strongand so active mentally and
physically at 70?
I don't sit still well, tell meit's a lot of this stuff and
make me happy.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
It may very well have been I mean, there's certainly
been that involved at some pointbut I just I don't sit still.
Well, I've got to be doingsomething.
Even when I'm sitting, when I'mwatching TV, I'm doing
something else.
I could be learning somecatechism, or not that much

(30:30):
anymore, because you alreadylearned it all, but I'm learning
in part for the actual pastmaster's degree.
So that's cool.
That'll be my first time AtGrand Lodge next week, yep.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Oh nice.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Come watch.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
I will, it should be entertaining.
It should be entertaining, itshould be there.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, so I'm doing that, I'm trying to learn
Spanish.
It's been doing that for 70years, still not there, but I
can read it a lot better thanI'm learning it.
I mean, you know, I'mrecognizing more and more.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
So, uh, that's fine yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
But I just gotta be, you know, I gotta be doing
something.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
So uh well.
Freemasonry helps you with thatright.
It does kind of keep you busy.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
You know, uh, when I retired, freemasonry was there
for me, and soon after I retired, my wife retired involuntarily,
and I see the difference.
I've got this and I've gotother hobbies right.
I'm a hunter, I'm an archer, Ilike to play music and sing.

(31:47):
I've always got something to do.
I ride a hunter, I'm an archer,I like to play music and sing.
I've always got something to do.
I ride a motorcycle.
She's looking for things to doand I love that.
I've got that family and I'm ina Masonic Lodge two to four
nights a week.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Masonic Lodge or affiliated body two to four
nights a week, masonic Lodge orAffiliated Body.
I mean, even now.
You're a lodge instructor atVenice Lodge this year.
Right, I am, you were a lodgeinstructor for me last year at
Sarasota Lodge.
I think you were also aninstructor at two lodges last
year, which wasn't a good idea.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Don't do that.
If you're listening out there.
Don't do that, Don't do that.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
Don't do that.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah, well, it was fun and I'm doing a lecture
Tuesday at Sarasota, theFellowship right.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
I love that lecture and you and I have had some
awesome experiences because wewere blessed with having a lot
of people that know the work inour district.
So there's so many of us thatin order for us to all stay
active, we had to start doingthem together.
So you and I have done, I think, all three lectures together.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
I think we have yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah, and we've even had third parties join us on
occasion where we've hadthree-man lectures going on.
It's a little crazy, you know.
You think it'd be easierbecause you're saying less words
.
It's harder, really.
I find it harder too, becauseit's so much easier to get lost.
You got to know where the otherguy is, yeah, and if he gets
lost, oh boy.

(33:26):
No, because it's so much easierto get lost.
You got to know where the otherguy is, yeah, and if he gets
lost, oh boy.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
No, you both better know it pretty well, which is
why I didn't mind doing it withyou.
I know you knew it.
David Finkelstein and I didthat the first time that I'd
ever seen it done and he did agreat job.
It was fun.
I like doing it.
I'd ever seen it done and hedid a great job.
It was fun.
I like feeling it, and I thinkpeople like seeing it that way.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
There's more energy.
I feel like you get twodifferent energies saying the
words, and also the two guys areplaying off each other a little
bit too, and so I think it'sprobably more interesting to
watch than just one guy droningon out there.
But yeah, we've had some greattimes doing degree work, not
just as lecturers, but even justputting on degrees together.

(34:15):
I've enjoyed all the work I'vedone with you because you know
the works, know well, you'reable to play with it a little
bit, and that's when it gets fun, when you're not like stressed
out about oh God am am I gonnaremember the next?
word yeah and then you canactually enjoy it a little bit
and try to have fun with itwhich is that to me, is the best
times I've had in freemasonryis just playing, having fun,

(34:38):
doing ritual work with guys thatknow it really well me too.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
I like it.
Uh, I like it when it doesn'tseem forced, yeah, when you know
it well enough that it soundslike a conversation yeah, I will
say, whenever it comes todegree work, one of the funniest
ones I have ever seen play arole.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
We just put on a master mason degree two months
ago I think it was a month twomonths ago and, uh, there was a
right honorable who was thereand he did the third ruffian.
Uh, and the third ruffian.
I mean this guy got crazy eyesand everything.
So I mean he's there like thisand he's, he's shaking and I'm
I'm junior deacon and I amhysterical, I'm laughing so hard

(35:18):
at this guy.
I'm like it's the best thingever, but I mean I don't know
how much I can, I can say aboutthat, but it was the best and he
did the lecture and and I meansuper over the top animated,
just did a phenomenal job,walked in with this whole setup
and did the whole lecture.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
So that's not impressive to Barry.
And I Let me tell you aboutBarry Hart and what he's done.
Please do, please do.
Barry has sat in the East forthe first section of the Master
Mason degree.
He was King Solomon.
In the second section of theMaster Mason degree.
He used King Solomon in thesecond section of the Master
Mason degree and he did thelecture in the Master Mason
degree.
Wow, yeah.
So when he told me that, I waslike interesting, so I had to

(35:59):
one-up him.
So I sat in the East for thefirst, king Solomon, for the
second did the lecture, but Iadded the charge because I had
to one-up him, of course.
The second did the lecture, butI added the charge because I
had to one-up him, of course, sowe're talking to two guys that
love ritual work.
We'd both do the whole damndegree ourselves if we could,
but they wouldn't let us youknow I would do that again.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
But I loved it.
But I'm pretty sure people werepretty sick of me by the end of
that night.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
You know it is a lot of is a lot of you when you're
doing all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
It is, but it was fun and funny enough.
I learned the charges when Iwent to the chairs at Venice and
I need to go back and relearnthose things.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah, because you just don't do them enough, you
know.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
It's like some of those prayers you just got to do
them or you're going to lose ityeah, I know, god bless anybody
with a brown card that's youright.
I got a brown card, yeah, butum, I can do the prayers and the
charges, but the funeralceremony I would be totally lost
because I don't think I everactually used it at a funeral

(37:10):
and I don't know if anybody'susing that one.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Really, Most districts seem to have adopted
something that's a hybrid ofthat.
I know District 23 is.
It was approved by Grand Lodgeand it's really nice, but I
don't know anybody that knows it.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
You got me into doing funeral work, so Barry is also
the head of the funeralcommittee in the 23rd District,
if not just for Sarasota Lodge23rd District.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
If they need it.
Manatee has a team Pantagorda'sworking on.
I'm going down there Wednesdayand working with them on putting
together a team.
So we'd love to have everylodge have a team, but if they
don't, then we'll be there tohelp.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
So, wright-worstel, this is my first time meeting
you, obviously, and we're what30 minutes into this
conversation?
But 23rd District, that's inhillsborough, right, sarasota,
that's sarasota, okay yeah, sowe go as far north as palmetto.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Okay, east is peace river and arcadia, south is
panagorda okay, and you're amember of what lodge again?
I was raised in 147 in 1988,but I'm past master of Venice
Lodge in 2010 and past master ofSarasota in 2016.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
Okay, so it seems like you two are familiar with
one another.
You have a camaraderie.
Obviously, all guys have knowneach other.
For a minute, I'm curious, asaccomplished as you are in
masonry, what brought you to itto begin with?
I mean, what brought you to thedoor?

Speaker 2 (38:52):
My dad was a mason.
He was raised in Georgia buthad moved to Florida and there
was a group of guys that had alot to do with building this
town in the day Ron Foxworthy,jack Bryant, earl Collins.

(39:13):
These were contractors.
Jack and Ronnie were plumbingcontractors, but they built a
lot of those condos out there onthe east and they were all
Masons and they also built FCCI,the work comp company.

(39:35):
So they and this is exactly howit happened my dad said meet me
at this building.
It turned out to be SarasotaLines and I'm going.
What's up?
He goes, just be there and Ishow up and there's Kurt Eskew,

(39:55):
who's another New York Lifeagent that I had met but I
didn't really know, and a guynamed Steve Weatherly.
Again, I had never met Steveand they gave us petitions and
said you're going to be MasterMacy's and I'm going okay.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Did you know what that meant at the time?

Speaker 2 (40:18):
I did some serious research, man.
I mean, I did the paperwork butI didn't have to show up.
So I went to the library.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
This is pre-internet, so this is before the days of
oh, you guys are from anotherplanet and all that other kind
of garbage we hear about.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
There's still some of that crap out there.
But if you researched it andyou know how to discern, some
people read stuff and everythingthey read is true and some
people can tell you know.
So I did my research, I feltcomfortable with it.
But but it was all based on thefact that I admired these men.

(41:00):
And then when I got in it,right, it kind of takes off.
So I joined the line in 1990.
This is what my Masonic recordtells me.
I was junior steward in 90.
I had to drop out of the linein 91.
I was starting a new career, Ihad two kids in diapers and,

(41:26):
unbeknownst to me, theWorshipful Master made me
marshal.
So I was marshal in 1991.
I never sat in that chair andthen there were times where I
probably there were some yearswhere I might not have walked in
that building.
But in 1990, those same guys,ron and Jack, got us started on

(41:50):
the 20th degree in the ScottishRite in Tampa.
And then in 1990, I think thatwas 90, in 91 or 92, we took
over the 14th degree.
So that's where my ritual youknow.
I mean we did the catechismsand I thought they were hard as

(42:11):
they could be, and then welearned this 20th degree and I
thought it was the hardest thingI'd ever learned.
And then we did the 14th andI'm going well, it can't get any
harder than this Surprisesurprise.
But then, once you do it for acouple of years, it's not hard
at all.
Yeah, it's just there, right?

(42:31):
I just did the 14th degree forthe first time in six years and
did the lecture and it was thebest I've ever done Really, and
I haven't thought about thatthing for six years.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
But it was still there.
You just mentioned the ScottishRite.
You are still there.
You just mentioned the ScottishRite.
You are a 33rd degree Mason.
In the Scottish Rite, you go tothe Valley, in the Valley of
Tampa.
When did you become a 33rddegree Mason?
2007.
And it was a surprise to you,right?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Of course it is.
You can't ask for it.
So had I laid the foundationwork?
Yes, I mean, I've been doingdegrees since 1990.
But yeah, it's always in theSouthern jurisdiction.

(43:40):
To be 33rd, you've got to be aKnight Commander, court of Honor
, and I had gotten that, so Igot that in 2001.
And the rules are you have towait at least four years to
become 33rd.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
I know there's a lot of confusion about that.
Because when I became aScottish Rite Mason I was told
never ask anyone about the 33rddegree or you'll never get it.
And I was like, well, how do Ieven find out what it is if I
can't ask anybody about it?

Speaker 2 (44:04):
What they meant to say is don't ask for it, right,
right, yes, not about it.
You can talk about it, you justcan't go.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Hey, give me one of those things, just so you know I
want that thing.
I'm sure there are people thatdo it and I wonder.
I just imagine there's a.
It's like the grocery store.
When you got the theshoplifters' pictures on the
wall and you've got those guys'pictures on the wall of the
sovereign grand inspectors orwhatever you call yourselves,

(44:35):
you're like, no, not these guysNever.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Well, it was a real honor.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
So what I've heard about from all the different
ideas and stories out thereabout 33rd degree masons, I'm
going to ask you a very bluntand direct question when is the
US Constitution?
I've been looking for thisthing.
I cannot find it.
I've been told the 33rd degreesare the ones that know where
it's at the originalConstitution.
I'm kidding, referencing amovie, but yeah, so you're not

(45:12):
going to know until you're highup enough in the 33rd degree
yeah, well, we do rule the world.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
You know that.
We just can't tell anybody.
Oh, you're gonna have to editthis yeah, yeah, we ruled the
world.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
We can out what Somebody asked me that one time
and I'm going dude.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
I get up and go to work every day, why?

Speaker 3 (45:31):
would I do?

Speaker 2 (45:32):
that if I rule the world.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Look, I keep telling everybody we are absolutely
discussing world dominationbetween plates of spaghetti.
Absolutely, that's just the wayit is.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
But I do have a serious question about the 33rd
degree because, as you know, mywife's family is very
conservative and they're veryanti-masonry.
And I've said, look, I gotevery degree in masonry you can
get and I've been active, I'veheld most positions that you can
get of leadership and I haven'tseen the devil worshiping that

(46:02):
you're talking about.
And what they say to me is youdon't have all the degrees and
I'm like there's only like acouple, like, but they're I
can't get them.
You know I'm probably nevergoing to get those degrees, so
how would it benefit to withholdall the Satan worshiping till
I'm like 100?
You know how does that help useme?

(46:23):
And then they say, well, you'rejust ignorant because you don't
have the degrees and they'reusing you from on high.
So you are a 33rd degree Mason.
Can you confirm for my wife'sfamily or deny that there are
Satan worshipers in the 33rddegree or that that's what the
33rd degree is about?
Of course they're going to tellme you're lying, no matter what
you say, but I'd like to hearit, or what you're allowed to

(46:45):
say about it, from you.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
I'm not a Satan worshiper.
There you go I don't know any33rd degree Satan worshipers.
There's nothing like that inthe degree.
So you know, if you go back andyou look at the history of
masonry, every 10 or 15 yearssomebody's going to come out.

(47:10):
I had a buddy when I was justgetting into masonry who found a
book called the New World Orderand actually he wound up giving
me a copy of the book and he'sgoing well, look, man, this is
right out of morals and dogma.
And then I'd break out my copyof morals and dogma and I'd go

(47:32):
all right, kevin, look, you'reright, this is in morals and
dogma.
But this sentence has 100 wordsin it and that's pretty much
how he wrote.
And they've only pulled out 25.
If you put the other 75 wordsin there, it means something
completely different from whatthis person is implying.

(47:53):
That it says.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yeah, yeah, there is some of that, for sure, no
there's a lot of that.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
There's a lot of that going on in the news today.
Yes, absolutely.
You know, and unfortunately, alot of people do not know how to
discern something that seemstruthful from something that
they want to believe.
You know, and it's funny nowthat because I've got a science

(48:23):
background At the end of the day, archaeology and anthropology
is science and the scientificmethod is critical to research.
So you meet these people thatgo well.
I did my own research on theinternet.
No, you didn't Number one.
My computer's not that good.

(48:44):
So if you're getting to placesthat I'm not getting to, I don't
know what your secrets are, butif you're reading the same
thing that I'm reading, some ofit screams bullshit.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
It just does.
The thing is you said reading.
Nobody's reading anything rightnow.
They're watching a YouTubevideo and they're calling that
research.
I mean, I see that you know, Igot my wife's little brother
does that.
He's like I did research.
And I stop him right there andI'm like I don't even want to
hear what you heard when you sayyou did research, what is that?

(49:19):
Oh, I watched a video.
I'm like okay, we're done, theconversation's over.
We're not even going to talkabout whatever you saw.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
It's more like I spend enough time on the
internet to find somebody thatagreed with me and then, once
they have somebody that agreeswith them, then that's all they
need.
Yeah, they're confirmed Ifsomebody else agrees with me, it
must be right.
It's something that thiscountry needs to do is to get a

(49:48):
better handle on being able to,you know, being critical of your
country's, not unpatriotic.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
Right.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
It's the best country in the world, but it ain't
perfect.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
Right.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
And it is not wrong or un-American to point out the
problems that could be improvedin this country.
It's not un-American in any way.
Actually, it's a hell of a lotmore patriotic in my mind than
just going.
Oh no, what that guy said, whatthat guy said and it's not easy

(50:22):
to do.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Whatever that guy says is the absolute truth, and
I believe all of it.
That's not the way it'ssupposed to be.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
It's not and you can't believe 100% from any of
the sides?

Speaker 1 (50:34):
No, definitely not.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
But you can be pragmatic and you can look at it
and you can you know Well, theproblem isn't the people.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
I used to think it was.
The people are just too dumb,and I'm ashamed to say that I
thought that about my owncountrymen.
Like they're a bunch of dumbpeople.
Um, don't apologize, I I'verealized, though it's not that
it's that there's no realjournalism happening in our
country anymore.
There's not.
Journalism's job is to do whatyou just said.

(51:04):
Their job is to be critical andlook under the curtain and try
to find the truth and report itto us.
But journalism today do whatyou just said.
Their job is to be critical andlook under the curtain and try
to find the truth and report itto us.
But journalism today is whatyou said.
It's telling you what you wantto hear and trying to confirm
your beliefs for you.
That's what they calljournalism today, and you can
get either side of it.
You can go on Fox News and getone view, or CNN and get another

(51:24):
view.
Neither one of them are doingreal journalism in reality.
So people don't have access toreal news these days, which is
sad.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
It's out there, but people aren't going to go to
hear what they don't want tohear.
They're going.
That's an absolute.
That's not fair.
Some people do.
I try.
I mean I watch more than onenews source and I read more than
one paper.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
Because I want to hear various opinions and then I
will.
Then I'll form my opinion, butI'm not going to do it just
based on one side telling me thestory, because that's crazy.
I don't care which side you'relistening to.
You need to be hearing.

(52:18):
But I don't think a lot of ourcountry doesn't do that anymore.
They just go to the sourcethat's going to tell them what
they want to hear.

Speaker 3 (52:28):
And it's also very selective.
Everybody wants to live intheir own echo chamber and
nobody ever really wants to stepout of that.
So it's like the pages youfollow on social media, the news
sources you take in, the TV andmovies that you watch.
You want all of those basicallyto be a reverberation of
everything that you already haveworking in your head, because
then you feel more validated.
Yeah, and that's where I wastalking to a buddy of mine.

(52:49):
He was dating a young lady thather church is part of the
Southern Baptist Convention andthey despise masonry.
I mean truly despise masonry.
They'll get up and they'll domulti-week lectures on why it's
nothing but the devil.
So he comes to me and he sayshey, man, aren't you a part of
that group of people?
And I'm like, yeah, so is yourbrother and your uncle.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
I don't know if you knew that or not?

Speaker 3 (53:11):
So I end up having a conversation with him about it
and he's like oh, they'retelling me this, that and the
other thing and I was able tofactually disprove all of that
and say no.
And then I looked at theirsource material and this was the
disturbing part is, in thesource material that they had,
they referred to God as Daddyand I had an issue with that.
You mean, these people are theones that are critiquing masonry

(53:34):
.
Really.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
I mean, if you use the word Father instead of Dad,
it becomes less offensive.
You know, it's their choice ofwords, really.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
It's specifically Dad D with the extra D-Y on the
back end of it.
That's weird, I know right.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
That puts it on a weird level.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
I got a pretty good buddy, actually a real good
buddy who, right after he becamea Mason, goes on an appointment
, meets with these people,writes a contract.
They give him a check for asubstantial amount of money, but

(54:17):
he's wearing a Masonic ring.
And she asks about it.
And a couple of days later hecalls and goes look, we changed
our mind.
And my buddy goes why?
And he goes well, you're aFreemason and my wife isn't into
Freemasons.
My buddy took his file and saidwell, you need to meet me, I'll
bring him a file.
He goes the beauty of my job isI get to work with the people I

(54:37):
like and I'm firing you.
Here's your file.
That was pretty rough, right.
I got a good friend who'd gowhat the hell did you just get
me into?
And now I've got to explainthat.
You know, the critics of miseryare usually people that want

(54:58):
you only to think one way.
They don't like the fact thatwe leave our choice of a supreme
being up to each person.
Right.
A lot of religions want you tothink their way and you got to
die if you don't think our way.
Right?
Some aren't quite that severe,but we're seeing it now.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
In Israel.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Yeah, in Kuwait, it's gotten very hot politically.
Yeah, it's gotten very hotpolitically.
Yeah, if you say certain words,you're automatically put in a
bucket, in a category, and byone group of people demonized
and by another lifted up, and noone even knows what you think.
They just heard a word.
It's crazy.
Yeah, we're in crazy timesright now, with the political

(55:50):
chargeness of everything in theworld, and it's everything.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
Everything has to have that us versus them spin on
it so one of the things thatI've been researching Chris, I
realize we haven't spoken in abit, but one of the things that
I've been researching because ofall this stuff like the
anti-Masonic rhetoric, I've beenresearching actual occultism.
So masonry is not a cult, buteveryone calls masonry a cult
and it's like I don't know acult that you can get kicked out

(56:16):
of because you didn't pay youryearly dues.
I've been to martial arts gymsthat are more cultish than what
masonry probably will ever be.
But either way, in researchingall of this, this and it's like
if you look at the video ofpinks, just like a pill, uh, you
know there's actually a cultist, uh, symbolism and people in
that right, and it's scatteredall throughout media, my thought

(56:38):
process behind it being and I'magain, I'm still researching
all this and you know right,worse, I'd love your opinion on
it.
But people want to point, pointto Masonry and say, oh,
masonry's the villain, becauseif they went after the actual
villain, all of society wouldcollapse.
Masonry's the easy target.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
It is an easy target because we don't hit back.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Yeah, for sure we don't respond, which is the
proper response.
You know you can say anythingyou want, we're just going to
keep doing what we do.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
And why do you have to respond to people that don't
know what you're doing anyway?

Speaker 1 (57:15):
That's my position now is like why would I waste my
time and energy on a losing?
There's no winning, that Like Ican't engage you and change
your mind really, so it's awaste of my time and yours to
even respond to it.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Yeah, and anybody.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
I've ever met that's anti-Masonic.
Once they've known me for awhile tended to change that
opinion.
That's true.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
That's true, and it's true for me too, Matt, because
you're in a lot of veryconservative Christian circles.
So those people know you.
Before you were a Mason and youhaven't changed, If anything.
Hopefully you got better as aman, and so that will carry
weight, I think, with thosepeople a lot more than any facts
you can show them or anything.
Yeah, so I have the way youshow yourself as a man after

(58:03):
becoming a Mason will influencethem far more than any facts
that you're going to dredge upand try to prove.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
So I have an example of it going both ways.
So one of the groups that Ihang out with, one of the
training groups that I hang outwith very religious people, I
told them I was like, yeah, bythe way, I'm going to be joining
Masonry.
This is before I ever filledout a petition.
Yeah, I'm going to be joiningMasonry.
And they're like, no, don'tjoin Masonry, it's evil.
I was like, no, it's not.

(58:30):
I've researched Masonry forover 10 years before I ever
filled out a petition.
So, become a Mason, go throughthe whole thing, get raised a
Master Mason.
I post an opinion of somethingon Facebook, an opinion on a
Scripture, and it was actuallybreaking down a Scripture.
Nothing Masonic about it at all, just something Bible-related.
And they said your theology iswarped, this must be the cult

(58:54):
talking.
And then I was removed from allof their social medias, blocked
on all their social medias.
I was like, interesting, okay,and but then there's the flip
side of it, crystal, what yousaid.
My wife comes to me.
She's like, hey, I've got thisissue.
This is this thing is.
You know, six, eight months ago, you know, do you remember
saying this?
And I'm like, yeah, it was afantastic joke.
I don't see what the problem isand why was it six, eight

(59:16):
months ago, like you could havetold me about it right when it
happened and I was just likevery super chilled, relaxed,
just yeah, I'm sorry.
Like that was it.
And she's like Matt, I likethis current version of you is
so much more calmed down.
You know not near as as hyperor whatever.
You know words or whatever.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Yeah, it's true, cause that's what we're.
That's really the point ofbeing a Mason is to try to work
on yourself and become a betterhusband and father and, you know
, hopefully even in thebusinessman, better businessman
with more integrity, and thoseare things you can't fake.
You can tell when somebody'spretending to be a good guy
versus somebody who's trying tobe a good guy.

(01:00:00):
You can tell the difference.
I can.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Not everybody can.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
No, you're right.
You're right about that and youknow.
I think we have opportunity now, because it is so polarized
that guys like us because Mattthinks very differently than I
do and we have.
We're at opposite endspolitically too, but I think now
more than ever, it's importantfor us to show that we can be

(01:00:26):
close, even despite thedifferences, and try to
understand each other andappreciate each other, because
people seeing other people dothat hopefully.
You know people need to see athing to believe it's possible,
otherwise you're just a magicalunicorn fairy tale.
So the more of us that do thisactually try to understand each
other and listen to each otherand kind of celebrate the things

(01:00:49):
that we have in common insteadof focus on the things we don't
have in common, and even try tounderstand the reasons we think
differently.
I think that's the best examplewe can set as men in this day
and age, as masons.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
I agree.
Well, it also depends on theheart and this is an opinion,
but it also depends on the heartand the intent of the one who
is actually both people on bothsides of the conversation.
Chris, you and I were textingyesterday while I was swapping
out those toilets.
That was a fun day yesterday,but we were texting back and

(01:01:25):
forth yesterday and it was.
It was a very good, wholesomeconversation, masonic
conversation, because at the endof the day, you're, you're
looking at what is good and bestfor me, I'm trying to look at
what's good and best for you,and it's those things just
married together Very, very good.
You know, versus if we go at itfrom the political spectrum or
we go, to add, from you know,because we're both trying to be

(01:01:46):
good Masons, regardless of whatwe brought into it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
we're both trying to be good Masons and that kind of
unifies us together.
And that's what the beauty ofFreemasonry is it can do that
under this huge tent of humanityand actually bring us together.
And if we can show we can dothat in this fraternity, maybe
we can do it out in the world.

Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
Yeah, but a lot of people go into it with the I
want to win.
I'm going to be victorious inthis conversation.
It's like you don't always haveto be.
Sometimes you can sit there andtake one on the chin and say,
okay, you were right, or hey, Idisagree, but I love you anyway.
You can do those things.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
It's what we should be doing as a country.
It's what we should be doing iswe?
Our social contract wasmajority rules.
You might not like it, but ifyou're on the minority side, you
just have to live with that fora while.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
I think it's even more important to pay attention
to the minority group in anysituation, because you really do
run the risk, I think, of goingdown a dark path If you really
do run the risk, I think, ofgoing down a dark path if you
completely ignore the minority.
So, when Democrats are in power, I think it's really important
that they start listening towhat's really going on in the
Republican Party and what can wedo to try to bring them in, and

(01:03:09):
vice versa.
But in the political situationwe have, you're right, it's all
about how do I get a win?
I can instill you, I could saysomething and then I can win
this situation.
It's.
It's.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
It's like devolved away from, like what it's
supposed to be, devolved,devolved, yeah, it's like
evolving instead of evil, and uhwell, these days, all it is
just people looking for, youknow, sound bites, sound bites,
yeah, for social media, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Yeah, something they can repeat.
I saw a comedian the other day.
It was hilarious.
He's doing his bits and hisjokes and he says I want to, I
want to dildo really loud intothe mic.
And then he just keeps doinghis bit and he's going on and he
goes why aren't you guys payingattention?
He's like, oh you, you want toknow why.
I said that.
Like I just had to get thesound bite out so that everybody

(01:04:00):
just plays that.
Now I can tell the jokes.
I want to tell, because allthey're going to do is say I
wanted to dildo on.
You know, like it's true,people just take the little
thing that is going to getattention and put it out there
and and they don't listen towhat you're actually saying,
which is what Barry was tryingto say earlier.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
You know, we watch the news every day and we record
it.
My wife for a long time isgoing.
Why can't we watch it live?
Well, they tell you whatthey're going to tell you, then
they kind of tell you whatthey're going to tell you, then
they kind of tell you, and thenthey tell you what they told you
.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
And by the time you get rid of the lawyer
commercials and the drugcommercials.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
There's five minutes of content in that 30-minute
show.
There's just nothing there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
There's no real news in the news anymore
unfortunately, it's like sportscommentators they're all just
telling you what they thinkabout whatever's happening on
the field.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
Well, and now a good two minutes of that five minutes
of content is about the weather.
I don't know.
I miss Walter Conkret.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Walter, that's the way it is.
That was his tagline, right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
I think, it was.
Denzel Washington, who saidthat if you read the paper,
you're misinformed.
If you don't read the paper,you're uninformed.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
There you go, that's the best thing.

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
It's a battle you really got to fight.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
You got to fight to get the information, like, like
Gary said, I do the same thing.
I got to look at multiple newschannels and I got to.
I shouldn't have to do that, Ishouldn't have to figure it out
for myself.
Somebody should just bereporting the damn facts.
So just telling me straightwhat's going on, I shouldn't
have to go hunt and figure itout for myself.
Something broken with when.

(01:05:56):
That's the way it is.
But I think we all know thatwe're intelligent guys and let
me tell you you don't know,right Worshipful Heart, but I
came into a lodge that had ayear-long fight about where to
put a projector, or if we couldeven put a projector into a
lodge, and I watched one man,after a whole battle, stand up

(01:06:18):
and squash it with like a fiveminute speech.
Like I don't know where thatcomes from.
Like what in your backgroundput you in a situation where you
can speak.
So, because this is somethingthat Mason's aspire to write
grammar and rhetoric it'simportant to us.
So where did you get all thatexperience with the grammar and
the rhetoric and the ability tokind of like speak plainly and

(01:06:42):
get like a unification to agroup of different guys in a
room?
Because we were fighting forlike a year.
You came in and said somethingand it was done that night.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
Over.
I think that was just pure luck.
But you know, I've been aninsurance salesman since 1985.
And I'm not a salesman bynature.
My dad was, my son is.
So for me the only way I canmake a sale is to become a

(01:07:13):
teacher.
So for me, the only way I canmake a sale is to become a
teacher.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
Just inform people, lead them to the natural
conclusion and not everybody'sgoing to do that.
You did the thinking for themand then you explain it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Yeah, you put it out there.
They still got to make thechoice.
But that's all I did that night.
But that's all I did that nightwas I framed it in a place
where I knew what the allegedproblems were.

(01:07:45):
Well, I took the legs out underthat argument and then they
kind of had to agree with me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
They didn't have to, but Well, somehow, you know,
like the average person can't dothat.
They can't take the legs out ofsomebody else's argument and
then still have the other sidethanking you for showing them
that that's a rare thing intoday's world talk to my wife,
she'll tell you I must have beenreally lucky that night, but we

(01:08:14):
did get what we wanted.
We do have a projector and weused it a lot over the year.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
And on the right wall that was another part of the
deal was we argued about thewall, you mean on the pink walls
.
Yes, they're not pink.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
That is funhouse.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
You're actually talking to the man that painted
those walls that color right nowreally yes, you are I painted
them, but gary gocher and Ipicked the color, and the reason
for that is matt is if you'rein the lodge and you look at the
paintings that we've got on thewalls, there's a, there's a

(01:08:54):
strong.
It's not purple, it's mauve, Iguess would be the color.
Yeah, and we were looking forsomething that would tie in the
walls to the floor, which doeshave purple right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Red is purple, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Yeah, and to those decorations, and that was the
one color.
Yeah, yeah, and to thosedecorations, and that was the
one color the the prior paintingwe had two walls that were one
color and two that were another.
They weren't that far off fromthat color that we have right
now and, more importantly, don'tdon't they do a pink lodge
somewhere in the state?

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
every year they do they should bring that to
Sarasota, they should.
We are the pink lot.
We are the pink lot.
I know you don't want to hearthat it's pink, it's Funhouse,
funhouse.

Speaker 3 (01:09:41):
Right, yeah, so okay.
So now I'm putting it together.
I've heard your name oncebefore, Only once.
I was at Sean Cooney'sinstallation as junior warden.
Sean Cooney's installation asjunior warden, sean Cooney, from
the Three Ruffians.
And as we're there, you knowI'm sitting behind the west and,
or sorry, the south.
I'm sitting behind the southand I'm just kind of, you know,

(01:10:03):
just watching.
I don't know anybody there, youknow, except for Sean, and so
the conversation of paintingthat room came up.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
They want to change the color.

Speaker 3 (01:10:14):
They want to give me a hard time oh they're busting
this ball and it was just aconversation.
I'm not trying to get anybodyin trouble, no, but there was
one brother who stood up and Imean, and with voice and burr, I
do not think it is right for usto be even having this
conversation without right.
Worshipful, barry Nice, Ilaughed so hard, yeah, because

(01:10:37):
he was so adamant about it.
I mean, it was really over thetop.
You know, the thing is, I don'tthink you're tied to that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
It's not like you want that to be your legacy.
As I painted the lodge pink, Idon't think you'd be mad if they
changed the color I would notbe mad.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
Here's what people don't understand is, before we
painted that lodge, we had a bigcrack over there on the south
side which we repaired.
Uh, we had roof leak that had,uh, water stains going down most
of the walls.
So we fixed all of that and itlooks great compared to what it
was before.
And I defy anybody else unlessyou're going to paint them white

(01:11:21):
, I don't think that's a greatidea.
What color are you going topick that's going to fit our
carpet and our decorations.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
I'd like to see stone personally.
I know it's expensive, likefake stones, yeah, you know,
like Brandon Lodge has got thosefaux stones on the wall and it
looks pretty good and you kindof paint them a Jerusalem
whitish color, you know, and Ithink that could look nice and

(01:11:51):
timeless.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
I got no problems with it.
I'm not married to that color Iwas just looking for.
I needed to paint some wallsexactly, and uh, and you know I
went to the guy who painted, whoI don't know.
if I don't think jerry paintedthose decorations, but he had
come back and repainted them, so.
So he knew what those colorswere.
And so you know, if theyrepaint it, it won't hurt my

(01:12:18):
feelings.
And if we sell our parking lot,then maybe we can get some
stones.
Yes, right, yes, or we couldpaint it.
We could find somebody to paintstones if we wanted to.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
You also had.
Weren't there like cigar stains?
Because the guys used toliterally smoke their cigars in
the lodge?
In the room I heard the storiesthat that was one of the
reasons you had to paint.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
Nobody smoked in the lodge room but that dining room
for years after the meeting guyssat around and smoked.
When they lowered thoseceilings, that took care of part
of it, because those tobaccostains always wind up on the
ceiling.
That got rid of some.

(01:13:05):
Then when we repainted ourdining room walls, it helped a
lot.
It was pretty bad there.

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
Regardless of what you guys are, Good sir.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
I'm just saying.
Every lodge in the 80s smelledlike smoke.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
Yeah, regardless of what you guys are doing down at
Sarasota, from a colorstandpoint you're doing far
better than Turkey Creek and Ilove Turkey Creek.
I was there working yesterday.
But we've got what is it?
A dark blue hall leading up tothe A room.
We've got a white lodge room,blue carpet, and then the

(01:13:43):
bathrooms are all orange and theand the painting like as a
contractor, it drives me nuts,cause like no one used painter's
tape at all and I swear mytwo-year-old daughter could do a
better job painting this wallthan what they did.
It just looks so terrible.

Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
Add it to your list of stuff you need to get done
before you're done in the line.

Speaker 3 (01:14:03):
I don't know if I agree with you, sir.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
Oh, I think you absolutely need to add that to
your list of things to get donewhile you're still in the line.

Speaker 3 (01:14:10):
That's a true worshipful master right there.
It's like, hey, since you'recomplaining about it, you get to
do it now.
This is that's the rule.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
This is how it works he who pitches becomes head of
the committee.
That's the rule guess what?
Nobody else is gonna do it yeah, and matt, listen, your
two-year-old daughter couldpaint it better than I could,
because I can't paint right.
So, uh, and we did, you know,we painted that that lodge and

(01:14:38):
pulled out all of those seats,pulled out the back row, all of
those seats.
Uh, dan tibbett's worked hisbutt off over there, uh, and so
did the rest of the lodge.
So I was really proud of whatwe got done there, and it does
look.
Everybody's forgetting aboutwhat it looked like before we
painted the lodge.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
No, no, you guys's lodge is amazing down in
sarasota.
I mean, if you've ever been toturkey creek, I mean it's just
kind of like a little hole inthe wall.
Lodge yeah, you know it reallyis it, it's, it's a lot of fun.
I mean turkey creek.
So I had somebody tell me atone point.
They were like there are threeways to do anything there.
There's the right way, there'sthe wrong way and then there's
the Turkey Creek way.
That sounds about right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:20):
My thing is there's a thousand ways to do it wrong
and one way to do it right.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
So technically, not everybody agrees with me.
Technically, Turkey Creek isprobably doing it wrong if
they're not doing it the rightway.

Speaker 3 (01:15:39):
You know, I'm hearing a fatherly insult in that
statement.
Right there, there are athousand ways to do it wrong,
one way to do it right and youhad to pick all the wrong ones,
at least a handful the wrongones right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
So well, I'm not being critical, I'm just saying
the right way.
There's usually only one right.

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
So we've gone a little over an hour and I have
some plans for Right.
Worshipful Heart you.