Brother Kevin Oatman: A Mason's Fusion of Fitness, Service, and Self-Discovery

Embark on an extraordinary journey with Brother Kevin Oatman of Manatee Lodge No. 31, who shares his tale of meshing the worlds of Freemasonry and fitness into one fulfilling life pursuit. His military discipline and nurturing spirit shine through our discussion, presenting an individual who epitomizes service and personal development. Experiencing Brother Oatman's storied past, we uncover the rich tapestry of his life, from the powerful influence of F3 Nation workouts to the profound camaraderie found within the Masonic brotherhood.

Our conversation threads through poignant personal histories, unearthing the transformative power of understanding one's heritage. The episode takes you through the complexities of identity, as our guest opens up about growing up as a Vietnamese adoptee in America, and the introspective clarity running provides. The narratives run deep, exposing the undercurrents of cultural acceptance and the ongoing battle against stereotypes, all while painting a picture of the resilience and gratitude that propels our guest forward in life.

As the dialogue unfolds, we cast a light on the harmonious interplay between faith and fraternity, showcasing the enrichment of personal beliefs within Freemasonry. We invite listeners to contemplate the enriching effects of travel on the mind and how embracing diverse perspectives can forge stronger bonds and inspire growth. Finally, we celebrate the legacy of the Masonic tradition, sharing stories of overcoming adversity and the indelible marks members leave within their lodges. Join us for this heartfelt exploration of leadership, dedication, and the unwavering ties that bind the Masonic community.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
you've reached the internet's home for all things
masonry.
Join on the level podcast as weplumb the depths of our ancient
craft and try to unlock themysteries, dispel the fallacies
and utilize the teachings offreemasonry to unlock the
greatness within each of us.
I have you now Welcome back toanother episode of On the Level

(00:45):
Podcast.
We have a great episode today.
We have a very special guest, agood friend of mine, brother
Kevin Oatman of Manatee Lodgenumber 31 in Bradenton, Florida.
Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Thank you, brother, it's an honor.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Thank you for inviting me.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
I've been looking forward to this, so I'm glad
we're able to find the time tobe able to get together and talk
.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
You're a busy guy.
You've got a lot going on.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
I do, yes, I do?

Speaker 1 (01:23):
I want to talk about that.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
I'll tell people probably don't know your name
listening all over the world inFreemasonry, but they will.
Brother Oatman joined, I wantto say like two years ago, does
that sound?

Speaker 2 (01:37):
right, it was 2021, early.
Yeah yeah, yeah.
I became a nurse in 2020, but Iactually got in about, I think,
21.
Yes, right after COVID.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
I think I had the.
I think I had the honor ofdoing at least one, if not two,
of your lectures for you.
You have that and that's whatyou know.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
again, that's where I was introduced to you Again
that's where I was introduced toyou?
Yeah, Of course from that pointon.
I've been inspired for whatyou've been doing, and what you
do and how you hold yourself up,so that's really, really yes,
Thank you.
I love you.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yes, sir, you've been a good friend and a lot of help
to me as I was finishing up inmy lodge.
So, yeah, greatly appreciated.
It's just odd to be at thebeginning of somebody's journey
and mine is kind of like waxedand waned and now I get to sit
back and watch guys like youreally start to blossom in the
lodge and become leaders.

(02:36):
It's really something to watch.
It really is you guys, you inparticular because you're're
very intense person, I guess isthe best way to say it.
I feel like you.
Really, when you latch ontosomething, you go for it all the
way Is that, fair to say, myfamily was military.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
So with that and part of you know most of that
regulations and stuff that I'mjust if you do something you
don't have to do it, you do it100, you do it right, and then
you know my mindset is to go 110, 120, so uh it doesn't, matter
what I do and you're aware ofall the things that I'm, you

(03:23):
know, involved with and you can,I think I only know I do and
you're aware of all the thingsthat I'm involved with.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
And I think I only know some of the things you're
involved with, and it's alreadypretty impressive what I know.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Well, thanks, I mean.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
I'd like to cover some of that, actually because
people should know yourbackground.
It's a small town in Sarasotawhere we both lived and you
still live in that area.
We both lived and you stilllive in that area Because I was
in the automotive industry andhad a friend that I met at a
convention who said I shouldcome and try this F3 Nation

(03:57):
thing one day.
And you know who I'm talkingabout.
He works for Gettle Automotive.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Group.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
I won't say his name and embarrass him here, but he's
a very good man and he talkedto me for a while and convinced
me to do it.
And I went at five in themorning and there's this group
of guys just killing themselves,jogging burpees, running up and
down hills.
I mean we were doing sit-upsand push-ups.

(04:23):
It was like intense.
I was like a pile of like dogfood at the end of that thing
and I was just sweating.
And then they throw you in themiddle and they start asking you
all these questions and theygive you your cool name.
So I went through the wholething.
Then I came to find out youwere part of that after I met
you and now I see all the timeonline and then I'm looking

(04:47):
behind you and I can see you'reobviously a very fit person into
personal fitness.
So maybe you could just explaina little bit.
What is F3 Nation?
Let's start there.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
So first.
I want to ask you what was yourname, what was your F3 name
then?
So I'm Comic-Con.
Okay, that's it.
Okay, that's right.
So, F3 Nation is a men's workoutgroup.
At first it started out asnationwide, started in North
Carolina, but it has grown somuch in the last 10, 11 years

(05:22):
that it's now international.
So basically it's a workoutgroup for men.
It's free and it's held outsideall the time and we've got five
core principles.
But one reason why we requireit to be outside is because we
want it to be accessible to anyman, whether you're rich or poor

(05:44):
, whether you're minority oranything.
Being outside allows thatperson to have that access.
Should we be inside, then youmay have to get a membership or
you have to be in a community orsomething, but by doing it
outside, rain or shine, thatgives access to any of the men.
So we call it f3 because of thethree F's, which is fitness,

(06:09):
fellowship and faith, and prettymuch the faith part of it is
pretty much like masonry.
We have to have, in a way, youknow, some form of belief of,
you know some spiritual belief,but I assume where we are in

(06:38):
Florida it's like masonry.
It's mostly Christian probably.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
We do, we have our fitness.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
You know it's just.
You know we just have a faithand a lot of us, you know, close
it with the prayer, but we dohave brothers and packs who
close it with just a spiritualsaying or something like that.
It's not an obligation, but youknow those three F's tie it in.
So it connects us and to us, itimproves us and makes us better

(07:03):
as men, pretty much similar towhat the Masons do.
Yeah, the purpose of it is toimprove ourselves and who we are
as men.
It makes us better.
It makes people better husbands.
It makes us better spouses, youknow, better leaders you know,
yeah, your wife is going to.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Your significant other is going to like you a lot
more if you're svelte and lean.
You guys are definitely.
I mean I saw the one time Iwent.
I might have gone twice.
I think Bing's father was there.
So there's like we're talkingabout people in their 70s
working out with guys in their20s.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Correct.
Yeah, so you could go out there, like the other day the morning
when I was out there, we had ayoung guy who's 18 years old,
but he was doing the same thingas everybody else as well, as we
also had someone who was 74years old.
So, of course, living here inSarasota, the demographics is

(08:01):
just how do I say with respect alittle bit of older age graphic
.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
But what it is?
Florida is the place that oldpeople go to die.
That's what it is.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, that's what we've got the reputation for.
But I was just at one of myruns this morning and the group
that I'm involved with myrunning I've got 70 and 60 year
old people out there runningwith me.
So when I have some of my otherolder friends say, no, I can't

(08:36):
do that, that's not possible.
I wish I don't see that,because I'm around people who
are 60s, 70s and even 80s whoare out there.
No, they're not running 15, 20,30 miles like some of the
younger runners and some of theathletes are, however, at least
they're out there and they'redoing something and they're

(08:58):
active.
So you can't let age dictatewhat you can and can't do, and
it's just like with masonry youcan't let age or anything stop
you from where you want to goThrough my travels, you know,
while I've pretty muchconsidered to a lot younger a
younger mason within my lastthree, three and a half four

(09:21):
years in my travels I've seenleaders coming out of masonry as
young as 20, 25 years old allthe way up to 80 and something,
so you can't let age define whoyou are and what you're capable
of absolutely as long as you'realive.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah, the fight continues.
Yes, now I'm very aware of yourbackground and all I see are
medals, and I know that you runmarathons.
Are these all from differentmarathons that you've run?

Speaker 2 (09:56):
They are Now.
You can't see them.
They're all the way around theroom.
One good credit about it isI've been running since high
school, so it's not a new thing.
So these have accumulated overthe years, you know over the
last 30, 40 years wow, how oldare you now, if you me?
Asking.
So in july I will hit thedouble nickels.

(10:18):
I'll be 55 55.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yes, you've been running since.
For over 30 years now I've beenrunning since high school, yeah
.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
So I started running cross country.
As most people know, I'm asmall guy, so of course I was
too small to go.
I went out for a freshmanfootball and the coach said nope
, you're too small and you thinkI'm small now?
I was really small when I wasin high school.
And you think I'm small Now?
I was really small when I wasin high school.
So the only thing that reallythat involved athleticism or

(10:47):
activities that I could reallybe good at was running.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
So I jumped in there and started my cross-country
career with high school and keptgoing since then.
It still seems like it'd beharder for a shorter person than
for a taller person.
Like you know a tall guy, you'dthink you'd have a bigger
stride.
Make it easier for him.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
It's funny because the other day at work, you know,
someone says, kevin, you walktoo fast.
It's like it's because I haveto.
You know, all my life I've hadto keep up with tall people like
you.
Yes, my stride's a little bitfaster, but yeah it is.
But I think it's more of theeffort and, you know, in the
long run it benefited me becauseputting more effort into those

(11:32):
strides, whether it's walking orrunning, it just built up that
endurance.
And you know that's what youknow I pride myself with, my run
is the endurance part.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
You're so well-rounded.
It's fascinating, because thisis something that our fraternity
is lacking, I think.
We are very, very good onfocusing on the internal of a
man but not so much the external.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
And I've traveled a lot in my short time in the
fraternity and I see we don'tlike to eat healthy, we don't
like to do healthy things, wedon't like to exercise generally
as Masons, and so I think it'sa really good message for Masons
that you just said it doesn'tmatter how old you are, you can
do something to fight it and go,keep going yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
And it's and it's weird.
Even you know, and as you getto know me and I'll explain
later you know I contribute alot of different facets of my
life and putting it all togetherwhether it's getting up at four
or three in the morning to gorunning, going to the workout or
, you know, being involved withmy church till seven, eight, 9,

(12:44):
10 o'clock at night, thosedifferent strengths and
experiences make me a betterperson.
So being able to be, notnecessarily.
I don't run to stay fit.
It helps, but mentally it keepsme fit and by being fit mentally

(13:04):
it helps me when I'm at thelodge and doing anything I want
with the masonry.
So I think the impacts of thosedifferent spectrums of my life
come together and helps mebecome a better person.
It makes me a better person.
Oh for sure Whether it's insidethe lodge or whether it's
outside.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yes, you actually served in the military.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
No, I did not, so I'll give you a little bit of
history of my background.
So I was born in Vietnam backin the 60s.
You're Vietnamese, I am I am.
Vietnamese.
Well, let me say I was born inthe Vietnam.
However, I'm more Filipino thanVietnamese Right.
So, as history knows, throughoutthe history of Vietnam as well

(13:47):
as the Philippines, thePhilippines have always wanted
to, you know, leave theircountry because of the
government, stuff like that.
So the majority of theFilipinos headed east, which is
over to China or to Vietnam.
So a great deal of thepopulation of Vietnam is
Filipino.
It's got a lot of the Filipinoin there.
So out on the streets and stuff, most of the Filipinos

(14:11):
recognize me more of them asbeing more Filipino than I am
Vietnamese.
So I was born during the midstof the Vietnam War, what you
know.
Yes, I was Wow.
And when I was about a year anda half, a military family
adopted me and they brought meto the States and so I've lived

(14:32):
pretty much with the exceptionof being stationed, you know,
throughout the country,throughout the United States.
I pretty much grew up here inFlorida, so I've lived or been
familiar, lived, in Florida forover 52 years now.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Wow, yeah.
So you think we would talkabout this stuff, but we don't.
We're really just, we'rewinging it when we record these
podcasts.
So if I'm getting too personal,please tell me to go pound sand
.
But what happened to yourparents?

Speaker 2 (15:05):
So we don't really have an official.
I'm assuming you're meaning mybiological parents.
Your biological parents yes, soI was pretty much abandoned and
I was found by a Vietnameseorphanage.
So their story that theyrelated to my, you know,
american parents or adoptedparents was that they were

(15:27):
killed.
So but there's no proof of that.
As well, as it's funny, I don'teven know what my real birthday
or real age is because, at thetime, you know, back in the
sixties there were nodocumentations associated to who
I was or what I was.
So at the time when the babieswere being adopted out and

(15:49):
getting out of the country, theyhad to have a birth certificate
.
So they took a lot of the birthcertificates of those babies
who have already deceased andput those with those who did not
have them.
So, I was given somebody else's.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Whoa.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
And that's how I was able to come over to the United
States, wow.
So really, I don't know if I'm55 or 54 years old at 55, and I
don't know my real birthday.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
That is insane brother.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, wow, I didn't know that.
Yeah, so a great deal knowyou've researched right, I'm
sure by this point in your lifeyeah, because um, the western
world was not able to haveaccess or go visit vietnam until
the late 1990s.
But once um it opened up, I hadthe advantage to be able to

(16:43):
travel over there.
I went there two, three times,but on the last two trips I was
able to look at my adoptionpapers and do some research,
because even back in the late1990s or even early 2000s,
research of that time on the webis not as detailed and
informative as what it has beenin the last five, ten years.

(17:04):
So since then I've been able toresearch things and gone back,
and the last time I went Iactually hired a tour guide to
take me out into the MekongDelta, to the area where I was
from, and I was able to go backand actually see where the
orphanageage I was at and talkto him mind-blowing yeah and

(17:27):
then on that trip.
What I did because I know it's athird world country in that
area it's very, you know, um,they don't.
They didn't even barely haveelectricity I was able to.
I took like four or fivesuitcases with me of school
supplies, you know, clothes andstuff, and I took it to the
orphanage and they were so happyyeah.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
You're such a good person.
I would have never thoughtabout that, but that makes
perfect sense that you would dothat.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, I'm sure they really appreciated that too.
They did.
But it was an interestingcountry because a trip, not only
because I was able to go backand see where you know my home
country and what it was like.
But I also was told too by mymom that, if you can, to almost

(18:34):
all the Asian countries as wellas Central America and South
America.
so much more of appreciation ofthe world and the people, but
you get so much appreciation ofwhat I was able to benefit by
being an American here in theUnited States.
So, you see things so muchdifferent in ways that most

(18:58):
Americans don't even realizewhat they have and don't have.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, I've talked many times about how I feel like
I won the lottery.
When I was born.
You know, I'm tall, I got blueeyes, I have my teeth, I have
most of my hair, I live in theUnited States as a man Like I
got all the boxes ticked off, solike, if I don't succeed, what

(19:23):
kind of a loser am I that I hadall these benefits and can't
succeed?
But, um, for you I'm sure itfeels the same a little bit,
like you feel like you hit thejackpot, being raised in the
united states versus over there,like that's a massive advantage
for you.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
I have and and I don't take for granted of what I
have I knew it was a blessingand a gift for being able to
come over here, because I haveaccess to free education.
I had access to, you know, getsecondary education with my
college degrees and stuff, aswell as being able to become a
brother for them, you know as a.
Mason, a lot of countries aren'table to do that, but so so yes,

(20:03):
I've always appreciated andthankful for what I was giving
and the advantages so like.
When I hear people todaycomplain because they can't do
this or go somewhere, I justshake my head.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
so, excuse me yes, but it's like a double-edged
sword, because I'm I mean, weare very lucky in this country,
there's no doubt about it.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
We have we are yes, air conditioning, electricity,
internet we can.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
You know we're only limited by our own desires and
drive.
Really, I mean, even yourcircumstances can be overcome if
you're persistent enough, right, I mean your economic
circumstances that you're borninto.
Now, this is what I want tolook at the other side of the
coin, because I try to putmyself in somebody's shoes

(20:52):
whenever I'm interviewing them,thinking about what their life
must be like, and I can see theone side, how you feel so lucky
and you appreciate probably morethan the average american
things, that everyday thingsthat are happening to you.
But then, at the same time, yousaid you lived your whole life
in florida and you're filipinoslash vietnamese.

(21:16):
Now, there isn't a huge filipinoslash vietnamese community in
florida now you have to stickout like a sore thumb wherever
you are right, Like in school,grade school.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
And it's funny.
People ask me you know, do Iknow much about my culture or
history?
And until I got out of college,no, I didn't.
Because if you're a Filipinoliving in Gainesville Florida
back in the 70s Filipino livingin Gainesville Florida back in
the 70s you're not going to findany Asian or Filipino culture

(21:49):
in Gainesville Florida.
Right, so you're trying yourhardest to assimilate Right and
just be like everybody else.
You're not trying to Exactlyyes, yes.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
So I mean, yes, you're right, I did stand out,
you know right, I did stand out,um, you know um.
So how hard was that for yougrowing up.
I mean kids can be, I mean if,even if you have nothing to pick
on, they'll find something topick.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Oh, it was yeah, I was an instant target you know,
um, and fortunately my parentswere able to, you know, help me
understand at an early age thatI'm going to be different.
But I wasn't different, I wasunique.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
And.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I think that's what helped, because, yeah, kids
could be mean oh merciless, itwas merciless.
But you know, I think that'swhat helped me become as strong
as I am now is because I have toadmit, yes, I was bullied, I
was tortured, I was harassedwhen I was a kid, I mean even up
to, I hate to say, even to now.

(22:49):
You know, I'm used to that, Iget that all the time.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
But you know, as a grown man yes, yes, that's
something.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, it happens to this day and age.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
I mean, I guess you're like an easy target for a
bully, because bullies tend togo for people they feel
confident they can harass, beatup, do whatever they want and
they're never going to fightback.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
And it doesn't help that I'm only 5'1".

Speaker 1 (23:16):
That's what I'm saying.
Your height must make a bullyfeel like, oh, this is the guy
I'm going to get.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, so, and it's funny, and I think this might
lead up to something that youand I were discussing a couple
of days ago.
You know we can today's societyis pride on.
You know proud to say that, hey, we accept everybody.
We're, you know, we're equal.
We do this.
But to this day and age thereis so much stereotyping and

(23:43):
there's so much bullying andharassment, and that is with.
I've gotten more harassment anddiscriminated as an adult than
I did as a kid.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Really.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Wow, see, this goes to show you both sides of the
argument can be right, becausepeople you said it in the
beginning like you get upsetwhen you hear people talk about
like, oh, I can't believe, I, Ican't do something.
But you're like, bro, go overthere, you can't even vote in my
country, like you know you have.

(24:17):
But at the same time, we have along way to go.
Still we do.
We shouldn't feel like we'veachieved the pinnacle of
cultural excellence we have.
We have definitely improvedourselves since the 50s and 60s,
for sure, without a doubt, butwe have a long way to go before
where we should be, I think wedo and what a lot of people

(24:39):
don't realize is, you knowthey're guilty of it themselves.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, they don't realize it yeah because I hear
things at work all the time,things that are said, um, yeah,
and and it's, you know it's well, you travel a lot extensively.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
You said, and right, I didn't travel until I was an
adult.
I grew up in upstate new yorkand the only people I knew were
other people on my block.
Basically, I had a pretty smalllife and, um, you know, my own
parents were quite racist.
In hindsight, like we would bedriving and I remember if we saw
a black person on the side ofthe road, my mom would be like

(25:18):
roll up your windows, don't lookout the windows, kids, right?
Uh, I would be so scared I'mlike, oh god, like they're gonna
get me.
And uh, you know, then when wemoved out of state and I was
like thrown into like a wholedifferent world.
I was subjected to so manydifferent people and cultures.
And, right, you know, I workedat disney.
That was my first real job, andtalk about diversity.

(25:39):
It's like an explosion ofdiversity all over me, right,
you know, I just, I just love it, I just love it.
There's no amount of diversity.
That's enough for me now.
And I don't know what changedin me, because I started out a
very american, closed-minded,the way I was raised and I as an
adult, I think I attribute itto star trek okay start growing

(26:04):
up I watched.
I didn't have a father or male,you know, so I learned most of
my moral system from that show.
Right, they harped on diversitybeing a strength.
They did and I think that's whatgot into my core as a child and
as an adult, I feel like I'malways fighting, because there's
always a fight when it comes tothat stuff in the world, right

(26:26):
and um, you know, I can be veryannoying to people because I'm
always trying to squash it andI'm trying to bring light to it.
And uh, people, you know, theyjust want you to just be quiet,
man, just just let it go.
It's in the past, leave italone.
It's like it is for you, it isyeah, and that that is true.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
And then when I um bring up the issues, I bring up
things that are sad, mostly,yeah, especially with my
co-workers or even people in f3and so forth, and even with my
nights in columbus.
You know when I bring it up.
It's not like that.
I'm sitting there, condone, youknow condoning it or, you know,
getting on to one it's just I'mtrying to educate them because

(27:05):
some of the things that are said, you know there's certain
sectors or certain classes.
If you were bluntlystereotyping or saying something
offensive, you know we're verycautious about what we say about
those different classes becauseso much light has been shined
on them for so long that peoplefocus on that correct, but other

(27:28):
things that people have said.
You know um with this again, thedemographics here in sarasota
they tend to be the older, umand their mindset yeah, not to
say that's a not to say it's theexcuse.
So that's allowable you know,but their mindset with the way
we're brought up was different.
Yes, so, with me being fromVietnam and then growing up

(27:54):
around these Vietnam veterans,I've gotten so much harassment
and mistreatment.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Well, yeah, your people were the enemy when they
were in the military.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Right.
I remember when I had adiscussion with my mom and my
sister they were American and mysister was Vietnamese as well
and she said and I was tellingher, explaining to them you know
how much discrimination andbullying and everything was
harassed, and they said, well,that's weird.
But my sister said I never hadthat, you know, no one ever did

(28:27):
that to me.
And my mom would say I neversaw that.
And I was like because, growingup, most people if they
associate an Asian lady orfemale, they associate to geisha
, girls, quiet, petite, but when, especially the generation you
know, greatest generation and soforth, and the boomers, when

(28:51):
you think of an Asian male youautomatically think of the
Korean War the Japanese.
War, the Vietnamese War, sothose were their enemies.
So unfortunately, I was the youknow impact or the effective
that came out of those threewars.
So that's what made thedifference.
But you can't change the past.

(29:14):
You learn and I think becauseof all that it's made me a
stronger person.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
My skin is very tough .
I think there are two kinds ofpeople in this world.
There are victims and there arepeople that overcome.
And I have family that had theexact same upbringing I had, and
you can see the victim and whatthat life looks like as an
adult.
Everything is someone else'sfault, everything my mother's

(29:44):
fault, somebody else's fault,everything my mother's fault,
somebody else's fault.
And then there's the other typeof person, who apparently is
you, who is like what else?
What else you got?
Give it to me.
Like I'm, I'm gonna fight, I'mgonna succeed, I'm gonna
overcome.
What, what do you got?
Like?
Tell me I'm too short, okay,I'm gonna outrun you.
Tell me I'm not smart enough,I'm going to beat you at that

(30:06):
game too.
Like.
I feel like you are the type ofperson who might've gone
through life facing everychallenge as exactly that like
something to overcome and proveyourself.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
Exactly, and you know , and and it's not that I'm out
to prove myself to anyone, butwhen you tell me or, in a way,
say that I'm not capable ofdoing something.
It doesn't matter if you're 10foot tall or my size.
I'm going to do my best toprove them wrong, and that kind
of helps me to where I'm at, youknow, with the masonry as well

(30:41):
as the other things I do.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
This is why you're such a huge asset to the
fraternity because you have sucha well-rounded life, um, you
have the leadership skills fromyour job, uh, your career, I
should say, um, and also justyour upbringing and who you are
as a person, with the military,parents and, uh, you know,
having been, let's say, andhaving to overcome that kind of

(31:05):
stuff, teaches you a certainpatience with people.
I guess you could say you haveto tolerate, tolerate yeah,
that's a better word.
You have to tolerate more thanthe average person, right?
And so when they talk aboutsubduing your passions, you're
like you know, I got that, noproblem.
But everybody else is likethat's, their biggest challenge

(31:27):
is trying to subdue theirpassions.
So you're ahead of the game inmany ways when you come to the
fraternity.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Well, thank you.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
I mean in many ways, because it's good kind of words.
Yep, you talk about your umknights of columbus.
You mentioned that.
I would love to talk about that.
So not only were you a military?
Uh, brat, uh, you werephysically active your whole
life and still are to this day.
Uh, you have a government job,you, you have a very respectable

(31:54):
career don't tell too manypeople that I have a government
job I'm not gonna say wherethat's for.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
I get harassed about that as well, really, yeah,
because when you tell them thatyou're with the government or
something, they think that I'maligned with those who are in
power that I sit there and agreewith whatever they do you know
what I work for the municipality.
I don't necessarily agree witheverything that's going on or
what they support.

(32:23):
So that's.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
It's funny because of all things that I gotta hide in
my life or should be keep, I donot tell people what I do out
there, unless yes oh well, Ithink, uh, people you know, for
some reason, when you work forthe government you get a certain
level of credibility uh, thatthat's better than even a lawyer
or doctor.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
Oh no, yes and no, it's got that.
You know how to say two-sidedthing same thing with attorneys.
If you say you're a lawyer,some people are going like oh
gosh, as long as they hate you,and it's the same thing with the
government.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
They either hate you or you know what I do, and I'll
tell everybody what I do.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
I'm actually a comprehensive planner, urban.
I'm actually a comprehensiveurban planner for the
municipality here in ManningCounty.
So therefore, with all thegrowth, the development, I'm
heavily involved with that.
That's what I do.
But when someone finds out thatI work for the county as a

(33:28):
planner, then all of a suddenI'm the target or the blame.
So how I tell, how I explain itto people is, you know, in
those old movies when thetownspeople have the pitchforks
and bars going after the city orthe mayor, that's basically
what they're doing.
But as well as if you tell themthat, when I tell them I work
for the county, they're likethey think I know everything,
from what time their garbagegets picked up or why the

(33:48):
traffic light on Manatee Avenueis out.
So that's why I'm cautiousabout what I tell people what I
do.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
That makes sense.
Yeah, I totally get that.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
But I'm proud to work for them.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, that's great.
I love doing it, but yeah, Ihope the benefits are good.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
They are One big reason why I'm there.
Yes.
And the retirement's great too.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
So we've got all of these things in your life that
are leading you to be a leader.
And now we come to like yourfaith and this is something that
you've also been likeeverything in your life,
apparently, like all in, likeall in.
You've been involved in theCatholic church.
You didn't play around with anon-denominational church or a

(34:38):
Baptist or Presbyterian, noCatholic.
You've been Catholic your wholelife, practicing Catholic
Correct.
I don't mean that you go tochurch on holidays, you're
practicing.
Could you talk a little bitabout, like, how involved you've
been in the church?
and how that leads into theKnights of Columbus, because
that's something I want to talkabout.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
So it's funny, I'm not what we call them trifectas
and we call some Catholicstrifectas because they only come
out on Ash Wednesday, easter,christmas.
No, I go to Mass all the time.
I'm at my church four and fivetimes a week.
So and I was, it's funny againand why I have so much faith is

(35:30):
growing up.
My family didn't go to church,but for some reason something
told me, as a six-year-old, Ineed to go to church.
So by the time when I was sixyears old, I found my way to
church, whether it was a teacherto come by to get me or
somebody else, a parent comingby to take me to church, or if I
walked.
I went to church every weeksince I was six years old and

(35:55):
again my family didn't go tochurch.
So that was all on me, that'salmost 50 years.
Correct.
So even at that young age, whenmy mom, you know, made me
realize how appreciative lifewas because I'm here in the
United States, I just felt likethere's that God put me in the

(36:15):
right place at the right timeand my contribution, or for me
to help pay back, is beingfaithful.
You know having strong faithand that's what I continue to do
.
And you know, as I grew up,that faith becomes stronger.
And you know, as I grew up,that faith becomes stronger.

(36:36):
And to this day, you know, oneof the things that people have
said to me is Kevin, we knowyour faith is so powerful and
what you do, we have no doubt ofwhat you're capable of doing.
So I chose, you know, to beCatholic because it went along
the lines of what they believedand what they stood in.
But because they are regiment,you know, just like the military

(36:57):
, you know you go, do this, youdo this.
Today, we're going to do this.
And what helped is in mytravels.
No matter where I was in theworld, I'm going to get the same
message.
That's what I did and I did andthat was such a great advantage
.
A bit of a two is, when Itraveled, whether it was in the
Central America, south Americaor Asia when I went to mass.

(37:20):
It was the same thing.
So, yes, I, you know, I havethe.
Catholicism plays a big role inmy faith.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
They made an impact on me to the point, as she's
saying, of the knights ofcolumbus.
I am dying to hear about theknights of columbus because I
only know about them.
Um, my wife's father was in theknights of columbus, but he's
definitely not, uh and Icouldn't talk to him.
And, uh, one time I was atlunch and these guys I thought
my wife thought they were masonshaving lunch behind us because
they had what the same exactkind of badges we have on um,

(37:58):
but when I asked them they werethey.
They kind of held up their noselike what?
No, like we're not masons, uh,we're knights of columbus.
And I said, oh, okay, and Ishut up because I've heard
through the masons that theknights of columbus don't like
us.
Um, I see nothing in Masonryagainst the Knights of Columbus.
So what is that about?

(38:18):
Well, what are the Knights ofColumbus about?
And where does this like theydon't like us thing come from?

Speaker 2 (38:23):
So Knights of Columbus is a Catholic
organization for men.
Okay, that's dedicated to, ofcourse, community service and
serving God.
So it was originally formedback in 1833 by one of the
priests who happened to be up inNew York and what he realized

(38:44):
is, back at that time, a lot ofthe workers the steel workers,
things like that, or differenttrade works like that or
different trade works- yeah.
When the husbands of course, atthat time the man was the only
breadwinner.
But if something happened orthey were, you know, had

(39:08):
deceased, the family was leftwithout a head of a household or
working you know someone totake care of.
So the Knights of Columbus wereformed to support the widows
and their families and providingfor them should one of their
husbands or their fathers passedaway.
And so that's how the Knightsof Columbus came into play.

(39:30):
And again, if I'm movingforward, I have so much respect
for who they are and what theyare and what they do.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
Well, you're one of them.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
I am.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
But at the same time they emulate what the Masons do.
Really it's no secret now.
It used to be secret.
We couldn't tell people what wedid or how we did things.
We couldn't tell people what wedid or how we did things.
But from my perspective, allthe quote, unquote, ritual and
you know, esoteric and stuff wasso is almost like mere image of

(40:06):
what Masons do.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
You were in the Knights of Columbus before you
were a Mason.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
I was, so I've been a Mason for probably 15 years now
knights of columbia for 15years excuse me.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Yes, yes, my apology, yes the knights of columbus.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
So I started out, um, and I eventually became the
grand knight as of um, yeah,about three years ago I became
the Grand Knight for my council,so I just recently, is that?

Speaker 1 (40:35):
like equivalent to the Master.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Correct, it is.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
So it's equivalent to the Master and a lot of times I
got to be careful because weaddress our Grand Knight as
worthy, whereas we address ourMaster, masters worshipful.
So I had to be cautious.
One reason the Knights do notlike the Masons or against them

(41:01):
and according to some, most andeven the Pope has, you know, you
supported this is they don't.
You cannot be a Mason if youcannot be a Knight of Columbus
if you, if you're a Mason.
And the reason why is becausewith Masons, we don't actually
use the word God, we use addressas the great architect.

(41:25):
We do?

Speaker 1 (41:26):
We say God all the time.
We do, but we don't say it wesay God, we don't say Jesus,
though Correct, I think that'sprobably the one that is the
itchy.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Part of it too, but in their eyes, if we're not
allowed to say Jesus or Godwherever we want, and we're
restricted.
That goes against one of ourbeliefs and what we stand for,
so, therefore, that's why that'sbasically why?

Speaker 1 (41:54):
Well, that's too bad.
You would hope they could havea little bit of tolerance.
You know You'd think they would, but if you go to other parts
of the country.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
the Knights of Columbus work together with the
Masons of Columbus, worktogether with the Masons.
They understand how they worktogether and that they're not
contradicting each other or whothey are or what they believe in
.
You know, when I became a Mason, I'm not surrendering or I'm
not losing any of my faith orgiving up anything that I have

(42:30):
with my Catholicism and whatI've told many is my masonry
empowers my faith more thananything you know, the knights
have to admit.
over the years they become lessrestrictive, less you know how
do I say demanding?

(42:51):
So we could sit there and tellyou everything that goes on.
They're free about that, youknow.
So we could sit there and tellyou everything that goes on
they're free about that, youknow we could do whatever we
want, whereas the Masons, youknow we're a little bit
regimental, more protective ofwho we are and what we do.
So I think that's the bigdifference and I'm proud, you

(43:12):
know, I have nothing to beashamed about.
I'm proud of it, of being theknight of where I am.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
I think it's good for people to hear that from your
lips, because I have family andfriends and their biggest thing
about what they don't like aboutFreemasonry is they just don't
believe me, that they think it'sits own religion, that it's its
own faith that they're going tosubvert religion, that it's its
own faith that they're going tosubvert what you believe and
make you believe in somethingthat masons believe.

(43:40):
But horse shit, it's not true,it's not.
I can't tell them that.
But you know people hear you.
You're.
You've been active in incatholicism for 50 some years,
almost.
Well, you said at least 40, 40okay, for a long time yes
and you've been active andyou've participated and you've

(44:02):
given and, uh, you, you get it,you know it and you join the
fraternity.
I'm sure you had somehesitations at some point
everyone does because you justdon't know for sure until you
join.
You know, uh, right, but nowyou're here, and not only again
are you here, you're active init.
You're an officer in a lodge,you're going to be the master of

(44:23):
the lodge, um, and god knowswhere you're going to go from
there.
Hopefully, uh, I'll, I'll liveto see you become the
grandmaster one day.
That would be an honor for meto see that.
I'm looking forward to it,actually, and I have no doubt
you'll get there, because you'reso stubborn once you get into
something, which is the trait Iadmire.

(44:44):
But it's something people needto hear, because you just said
it.
It didn't detract from yourfaith in Catholicism, it
enhanced it.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
It did.
Yes, it sounds cliche, buteverything I've learned from my
Knights and my experience withthem have helped me become a
leader and understanding more ofwhat you are, and going back to
the idea that I keep sayingit's almost mere image to what
masonry does, it kind of helpedme understand where we're going,

(45:17):
where I'm going and what I needto do, and so by being the
grand or excuse, the grandknight, I understand the
importance of what needs to beput in place for leadership as
I'm hopefully bound for the eastyeah that's going to help me.
So you know, the masonry helpsme become a better person, not

(45:40):
only with my faith, with myCatholicism, as well as the
night, but at the same time,everything I've got out of
Catholicism, especially thenights, have helped me to where
I am today and you know I'mgoing to keep that faith and
that's where it's going to go,who knows if it gets out.

(46:01):
and they may say I'm not like meanymore.
I just look at it.
As you know what God has a plan.
He's going to put me in a place, and it's funny because when I
first got into masonry, in mymind I'm sitting like there's
going to be a point where I'mgoing to have to decide which
one or the other, and it wasn'tlong after I joined masonry that

(46:27):
I knew at some point it's likeokay, I know which way I'm going
to go if I have to decide.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
And here I am still, and so far, you know, things
have been you know well for meat this point, but well, I think
it's important to note there'snothing in catholicism that says
you can't be a mason, um, no,these are.
These are individuals, choices,um, and so it very much is a

(46:56):
regional thing too.
It's like where do you live andand who's in charge?
As if you're going to beaccepted or not.
Yes, and we talked a little bitabout this before we started
recording I'm not a Catholic.
I was raised Presbyterian and Idon't even know what the

(47:16):
difference is, honestly, becauseI've never been to a Catholic
church.
But you know, the tenets andthe belief system is very
different from the practice.
Practice and I've I've beentold recently that I'm no good

(47:38):
for masonry, that people saythat I'm divisive and tearing
things apart.
Um, and I think that's becauseI'm not afraid to talk about
things that should be talkedabout, and people maybe don't
like that right, but uh, infreemasonry it's the same like.
The system is beautiful, it'salmost perfect and it works
every time if you follow thesystem, but the people can screw

(48:02):
up a wet dream.
I mean, people are just people.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
It is.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
If people's only experience with masonry is
through someone that maybe isn'ta great mason, you can see how
they that that person andeveryone touches.
Yeah, it's creates like a deadlyspiral of negativity, correct?
You know?
The only answer to that for usand for Catholics is to be a
good representative of thesystem, not, like the people

(48:30):
around you, necessarily be morefaithful to the system than you
are the people, yes, and you'llbe okay and you'll be a good
representative of whateversystem you believe in it is, and
and that's the thing too is,even with the Knights, but
especially in my, you know, homelife, traveling is the key word

(48:54):
.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
Okay, yes, I'm proud to say I'm a traveler man,
because that has so much, youknow, symbolistic to me, because
if you travel, or if you gofrom, let's say, council to
council or church to church, oreven in the lodge, you're going
to get so many differentperspectives.
Okay, you're going to get somany different perspectives, so

(49:20):
many people that you can't sitthere and force yourself to go
one way because you're going tosee so many ways of doing things
.
Whether you know if you're inThailand and you're traveling on
the left side, you know readingsigns that are totally
oblivious, the people are thesame, the process is the same.
Whether you're at the Knightsof Columbus and you're up in

(49:43):
Tennessee, your faith is goingto be the same.
The people may be different,but your faith is going to be
the same.
So same thing with masonry.
You know, I understand and Iknow you know a great deal of
how my brothers in the lodgeworks.
But when I've traveled, youknow, throughout the district
you get different perceptionsand you see me different people,
so you cannot be tuned to justone idea, one format.

(50:08):
You see so many different waysof doing things and perspectives
and I think that you know,embraces that strength of who we
are as a brother.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
That's.
One great thing about thisfraternity is that it encourages
travel, because I always heardfrom a young age that the cure
for ignorance is travel.
If you stay in one place andonly know the same people your
whole life.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
You're ignorant of so many things in this world,
right, and you really do need toget out and live a little bit
and see a little bit more of theworld to understand the bigger
picture yep, and, and at that,and, and, and you know, going
back, I, yes, I'm kept fromgainesville and there are people
my school classmates andfriends that I know who are

(50:54):
still living in gainesville thathave not traveled out to my
father in Tallahassee.
That doesn't take away from whothey are and what they are
doing.
It just gives the rest of us anadvantage and the benefits of
being able to see the rest ofthe world and you can be friends
with those people.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
but I would venture that they sometimes say things
you think are outright dumb orignorant and you just have to
kind of keep to yourself and belike well, they don't know any
better.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
But that's what makes the world go round our
differences.
But what makes us better asbrothers, amazingly, is we can
accept those differences.
We can accept those differencesyes, we can accept other ideas.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
We don't have to support them, we don't have to
agree with them.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Right.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
But we can accept them, and that's what makes us
brothers and true brothers.
Yeah, and you know again withthe Knights.
They're great men.
Some of my brother's greatestfriends and greatest brothers
are great, but there's most ofthem are so selective and they
don't even want to open theirminds that there's other

(52:02):
organizations or other thingsthat can help yeah, you know
with their faith in society.
They're just so not willing toopen their minds to that.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
That's too bad, that's unfortunate.
When you get in that place,you're basically dead already.
I mean there's no growth,there's no opportunity for
improvement.
You're just going to decay anddie when you get to that place.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah, so I have to admit.
Just last week I was nominatedto be the District Grand Knight.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
Congratulations.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
So that's true of all of it.
However, I turned it down.
What?
Because, well, it's an honor,but at the same time, I want to
focus my attention to my journeyand this is more important.
Focus my attention to myjourney and this is more
important.
And at the same time, too, Iwould feel like, if I'm standing

(53:02):
up there amongst the district,leading these guys which I know
most of them which way they'rethinking or what they want to
proceed with.
I don't necessarily agree andagain, I could accept it but I
don't feel like it's my place tobe their leader and not really
support everything that they'rewanting to do.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Well, that's okay, just give it a few more years,
we'll make you a district deputyin the 23rd Masonic District.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
I'd rather focus my journey right now, as, hopefully
, I'm bound for the East.
I want to focus my attention tothat.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Oh, you're the junior warden of your lodge.
You're on an unstoppablejourney to the East.
Now there's no getting out ofit.
You're in for the long haul now.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
And I'm looking forward to it.
I'm already, you know,preparing myself.
I'm looking forward to it.
I'm sure you are.
Hopefully, you know, eventuallyI'll get there, but I'm looking
forward to it.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
You know I'll bring it back to the beginning we
talked about.
I was there for your.
I was definitely there the dayyou were raised a master mason.
Yes there were several brothersthat day, as there usually are
when you do a master masondegree.
I didn't know you at the timeother than I had done another
degree, so I kind of saw you andmaybe we shook hands and said

(54:16):
hello.
But I was in the mood the dayyou became a Master Mason Like I
was.
It might have been the firsttime I was allowed to play the
third base in the Master Masondegree, we'll say, and it's a
big role.
So I take it seriously and Iwas good friends with the master

(54:36):
anthony.
Uh, tomorrow, tomorrow.
Yes, and he was.
He happened to be solomon.
So well, he and I were standingthere and I'll tell the story.
I hope it's not embarrassing toyou no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Because memorable, because you know what correct
right.
If it's a memorable thing thathelp teaches others, that's
great well you had.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
You had a diverse group that went through with you
.
There was like an oldergentleman and a younger
gentleman and you were kind ofin the middle and I was like,
hey, you know what.
I went to Anthony and I saidyou know, I think I could like
really rough not rough this guyup, but I think I could do
something different.
And he said go for it.

(55:16):
And I was like, are you sure,Because I don't know if he's
going to be okay with it.
And he said trust me, he'sgoing to be okay.
Not only is he going to be okaywith it, he's going to love it.
I said, okay, all right.
So you came around and Istruggled a little, but I did
get you up over my head.
I grabbed you and picked you upover my head and then I'm

(55:37):
saying what I gotta say anddoing what I gotta do.
Um, I realized once I had youup there, I had no plan for what
to do once you were up there.
So I just kind of put you downand we finished the whole degree
.
But honestly, my, I couldn'tstop thinking about I hope I
didn't offend this man.
I hope he's okay with this.
And you got up at the end andsaid some pretty heartfelt words

(56:01):
that day and you looked rightat me and said, thank you, I
appreciate everything you didtoday and I thought, okay, he's
okay.
There was like an hour where Iwas just beating myself up Like
I went too far.
You did it now, Chris.
You went too far.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Unfortunately, Brother Anthony, he knew who I
was and what type of person Iwas.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
He knew how athletic you were.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
And it was a great opportunity not only for you,
but it was a great experiencefor me, because I'll never
forget it and I'm sure you'llnever forget it.
I won't Again.
It was the right time at theright place.
How many other opportunitiesare you going to be able to do
that, or?

Speaker 1 (56:42):
anybody?
Never, you're not.
I'm like six foot three.
You're how tall.
How tall did you say Five footone?
Five foot one I was like.
This just seems like it'ssupposed to happen right now.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
So yes, and it did, and you know it's been and not
only did that make that strongerbond with you, but it made that
experience memorable.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Yeah, I'm sure it was memorable for everybody in the
room that day.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
But now when I go and see it happening to others, I'm
like that's it.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
That's it, we had a special day yeah, I don't think
that's ever been done and Idoubt it will ever be done again
hey you know, what and if.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
If the experience you know resonates through others
and helps them you knowexperience get more out of the
experience, then that's the bestthing that can happen.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
You know, I well, really honestly, ever since then
you've been a big supporter.
You you always came to my lodge.
You always helped when you were.
We asked you to help.
You're wearing the t-shirt thatyou purchased.
You didn't accept a freet-shirt.
You had to pay for it becausethat's the kind of person you
are and you've been a supporterand I really appreciate that and

(57:54):
I feel like now I can maybereturn the favor, maybe I can
start to support you a littlebit now.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
You've always supported me.
I mean, you know more ways thanone you know, and it's like
anything else, it's the littleimpacts or let me rephrase that,
the big impacts that you makeon someone behind the scenes.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
That's the importance , right, the right.
Well, that's where theimportant stuff really happens,
you know.
Yes, those meetings.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Yeah, you're gonna help me out eventually in the
next couple years.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
So I I'm very much looking forward to your journey
and seeing it.
You've been, you know.
You came to my lodge and youdid an awesome education which
we were going to talk abouttoday.
We'll talk about it anothertime.
Yes, and you're continuing todo new educations for your lodge

(58:46):
.
I saw you in my lodge do theplaying cards presentation.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
I saw the presentation you let me look at
it the Jack the Ripperpresentation, which I'm sure
went well, and you told meyou're doing another one
tomorrow in Lodge.
That sounds really interesting,actually about the booze club
and the Knights of Columbus andall these other groups.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Yeah, because a lot of times and I'm sure I'm not
the only one when we do tell ourfriends and co-workers and
peers that we're involved withthe Masons, they're like well,
what is that?
Is that like the moose?
Is that like the eagles?
Is that like such and such?
So basically, the presentationI'll be presenting soon is the

(59:29):
differences between thoseorganizations and you know what
they do for the community andhow you know what we do versus
what they do.
That way we get a betterunderstanding of who we are, but
that way we know what to say toseparate us or distinguishes us

(59:49):
from those organizations.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
I wish I could see it in person.
I'll see it.
You'll do it again.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
Well, I'm hoping most of your guys will be there some
of your guys, because we've gotthe traveling they're planning
to come get it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
They're planning to come get it.
We don't have much luck withthat, though.
Wherever we go, somebody elsealways comes and they always
outnumber us.
Yeah, the last three timeswe've gone to places and we've
been outnumbered and didn't comehome with a traveling gavel
yeah, so, yeah, I'm lookingforward to seeing some of you
all there tomorrow night, um atour meeting.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
But, um, yeah, so, um , yeah, I'm.
I'm honored to be asked to dothe Masonic education for Manny
31.
But I take a different approachand I know, once in a while
I'll throw in.
You know what masonry does orbasic things.
You know what we can do oneducation.

(01:00:46):
But I truly believe that when Icome up with some of these
unique presentations that I'vecome up in the last year or so,
it draws a different interestfor the brothers.
Yeah, you know, sometimes whenwe say, okay, we got Masada's
education, they go like, okay,what are we going to do?
Somebody's going to printsomething out.

(01:01:06):
Yeah, exactly.
So I just feel that if I add adifferent uniqueness or an
interesting element to somethingyou know, somebody could say
well, jack the Ripper, that'snot, you know, you're just a
presentation.
But if you really read into thepresentation I made, it makes
you think of who we are asMasons, what we do and how it

(01:01:28):
contributes.
So it's not the presentationitself that I'm doing to educate
, not the presentation itselfthat I'm doing to educate.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
it's the thought or the mindset or how you're
thinking about this presentationyeah that to me is stronger, to
build that connection for whatmy son, masonry, is yeah, it
forces them to look at somethingthey know, they think they know
in a different light, correct,and that kind of drives people's

(01:01:59):
and this is the point ofFreemasonry.
We are supposed to cometogether with our different
backgrounds and differentreligions together and ask the
big questions and we're allsupposed to give our
perspectives, we're supposed totry to read into what the stuff
means and we're supposed to tryto find a personal answer for
ourselves.

(01:02:19):
And those educations are reallytriggering one of the main
things that's required to be agood Mason, which is critical
thinking and trying to look atsomething even mundane in a
different way, a little morecritically.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
Yes.
So, as you can see, you knowfrom what I've told you about my
history, that's basically theyou know my whole life.
I'm not typical, I'm different,I'm unique.
So whatever I've had to do orwhatever have been brought to me

(01:03:09):
, I've had to step out of thebox and think how am I going to
be able to accomplish whateverybody has been able to do,
but in a different way thatwould help me adapt to what's
going on and succeed?
It's by faith, whether it's byeducation, fitness or masonry.
You got to step out of the boxevery once in a while and look
at it from a differentperspective, and that's how I
see it.
Many could say that, well,Kevin, we didn't do it this way
or we've never done it this way.
Tradition calls this.

(01:03:30):
I understand tradition, Irespect that, but at the same
time, you've got to make itinteresting so it doesn't become
the norm.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
Does that make?

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
sense.
I think that's how.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
I approach things that's so needed in our
fraternity because we have beenaround a long time.
We have.
We have been around a long timeand the reason, as you said
earlier in the podcast you saidwe maybe have held closer to
some of our tenants than othershave, and that's something that

(01:04:05):
everyone loves about thefraternity, but at the same time
, you don't have to holdeverything that closely.
You can innovate Not caninnovate you not, not with
ritual work, not with, likechanging words, but like even in
the way that you talk aboutsomething can be innovative, or
the visual aspects that youbring to your powerpoints can be

(01:04:27):
created and things that peoplethe playing card thing when
you're relating like everybody'splayed cards their whole life.
But when you start to look ateach individual card as you do
and you break it out and kind oftie it into different masonic
things, it starts to make you.
We're supposed to look at thewhole world around us in this
way, with wonder and criticaleye and like try to find meaning

(01:04:52):
in everything, and so I thinkthis is really a highly
overlooked part of thefraternity is people that bring
their personal experiences tothe mundane and and present
something to me.
This is what masonic educationshould be presenting something
to masons in a way that makesthem think about Masonry, but

(01:05:13):
also make them think aboutthemselves in a way.
I don't know if you're doingthat on purpose, but that's what
I see in the presentations.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
I do.
Just, you know, without goingin full detail, with the cards,
yes, you take a normal deck ofcards, Everybody knows it.
But when you look at each ofthose things that you just said,
but then with those cards,you're never sure of what you're
dealt with.
Just like life, you're neversure what you're going to be

(01:05:43):
dealt with in hand.
But looking at those differentsymbols and see how they play
out, it makes you think how am Igoing to strategically play the
right cards in order to succeed?
So that is the whole backboneof that presentation.
Not that the king representsthis and this.

(01:06:03):
It's putting all that togetherwith your experience in masonry
and how you're going to putthose things, those facets,
together in life.
So hopefully your journey willbecome successful.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
I love it.
That's such a good tie intoeverything we've been talking
about today.
When you play cards, people saythat it's a game of luck.
People that know cards knowthat it's not a game of luck.
It's a game of skill and it'show you react to the cards you
were dealt, what you show topeople, what you think in your
head, how you the decisions youmake.

(01:06:39):
There's a lot of skill in cards.
The losers are the ones sayingah, you got lucky.
You get all the lucky cards,like right strategically, and
it's just like with masonry.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Yes, it's strategic.
It's a matter of how you playyour cards if you plan ahead or
whatever you're dealt with asyou go through it.
Hopefully in the end you'llhave the right cards to have a
successful journey if you playyour hand right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Yes, your hand right yes, and I think that's
something that I caught, like I,I don't know, as I get older, I
think the veil lifts from ofthe mundane kind of goes away a
little bit as you get older andI don't have time for the
bullshit anymore.
So I, I surround and if you'velistened to the podcast you know
, um, I'm a big.

(01:07:28):
For me it's like I'm.
I'm drawn to people that werebroken and overcome, because
there's just they're living lifeand you can see somebody that's
unplugged from the matrixpretty quickly and recognize.
And then it's a special personthat uses whatever they've
overcome for positive and for tohelp other people and to show,

(01:07:52):
even though you're getting somuch negativity all the time,
you're trying to use it in apositive way, the way you deal
with it.
And I for sure saw that in youwhen you were raised that day as
a Master Mason.
You exuded that in the thingsthat you said.
Everyone gives a speech.
Mostly everybody likes to standup and give a speech when they

(01:08:13):
become a master mason and someI've heard many, many, many guys
say the same thing.
You know it's the standardstuff.
Thank you, this, this, this.
You can tell when somebody'sspeaking from the heart and it's
an authentic thing and you were.
So I was kind of drawn to youfrom that moment because I saw,
okay, this is somebody who'smust have been through a lot and

(01:08:35):
they're like, but you were verypositive and thankful and
grateful uh yes and you have.
You have your shit togetherdespite everything you think so
okay and that's one thing I needto.
You're showing that you haveyour shit together, even though
maybe on the inside you don't itdoes.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
And, and you know, go um, just stick on what you just
said too.
What many people don't realize,and you know, of course, my
lodge does, but I'll telleverybody else out there.
And one thing that helped meget over, you know, fight my
battles is because of theeffects of war or your being

(01:09:13):
over there.
I am blind in my left eye andI'm deaf in my left ear, so
growing up I don't think a lotof people know that about you.
Oh, and I don't really put itout as much, but we had one of
our great brothers.
You know to me is a legendBrother.
I worship Robert Litter.

(01:09:34):
He recognized that when I wasgoing through catechism.
And because of that strength, ofthat brotherhood, he was able
to help me overcome thosechallenges with my hearing and
my sight, to get me to where Iam.
So, yes, I've been through alot of challenges, things have

(01:09:55):
been thrown at me to think thatI'm not going to be able to do
what everybody else is.
But here I am and that's what'sgiven me the strength.
And you know, masonry is thesame thing.
It's a challenge, I have toadmit it's not easy.
And I tell people.
You know, when I tell people,People need to know that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
you know you think it's easy.
You're just going to get in theline and cruise control right
to the east.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
And 147 recently got a new EA, which is a good friend
of mine, and I told him.
When he reached out andinquired about it, I said I
think you'd be great at it,You're a good fit.
But let me tell you this it'swork.
It's not something that youcould sit around and just I said

(01:10:42):
it's a lot of work, You'rewilling to work, you'll get so
much out of it and I'm lookingforward to his journey as well.
But yes, it's been a challengeand, of course, when I was going
to the South, people said,Kevin, there's a lot of work
that's going to occur for youfor the next three or four years
and I'm like, okay, I'm notafraid of work, bring it on and,

(01:11:06):
believe me, they've given me agreat deal, but you know what?
I'm ready for it.
There's no challenge that Ican't overcome, and this is no
different than anything thatI've had in my life, so I'm
looking forward to it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
I'm looking forward to it too.
Your lodge, manatee Lodge,number 31, is the oldest lodge
in our district, district 23.
I'm sure they talk about it allthe time.
Whenever I talk about Manatee Ialways do the fact that you
were a Moonlight Lodge.
People would only meet on afull moon because that was the

(01:11:43):
only time they could see to getthere and home.
And you go, look at the pastmaster's wall and you see the
history.
My lodge, sarasota Lodge, hashistory too, but not like yours,
and I felt the weight of thatmore when I became master.
Honestly, um, I saw it and Iappreciated it.
But when you're the master andyou realize that your name is

(01:12:07):
now added to the collection ofmen in the unbroken chain that
goes back to those days, theweight of it.
Sure, if you're a good master,you'll feel that weight um a lot
, and I sure did, and I know youwill too.
And I just want to say, like,that lodge has some, all lodges
have their interestingsituations.

(01:12:27):
All of them do, and manatee isno different, like you.
Um, really, you talk about thishistory and the majesty of the
lodge, because it should be, butyou know you have ups and downs
, you have peaks and valleys.
Your lodge, wasn't long ago yourmaster was removed by the
Grandmaster Correct.

(01:12:48):
Everyone was shocked.
You have a past district deputythat came to the Master Mason
Association and didn't shy away,didn't try to cover it up,
stood up like a man, like aMason, and explain the situation
and said please work with us,please be patient with us and
the district.

(01:13:08):
We rallied because we all haveour issues.
We rallied because we all haveour issues.
We can understand, you know,and so you, coming from such a
historic lodge, people mightthink you're on Easy Street.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
But you know, you're kind of in a rebuilding phase in
that lodge now where you've gotto rebuild things, which means
a lot of work.
Yeah, so when I first went inthere and saw that wall with all
those past pastors and thehistory and I'm like wow, just
can you imagine?
And I have so much respect forevery one of them and as I've
got, as through the, through theyears, I've gotten to you know

(01:13:53):
their tenure and their year wasand how they you know who they
are and how they possess I getmuch respect.
But to me it's not intimidatingbecause I hopefully can.
One of them up there has itsunique personality.

(01:14:15):
They were unique in their ownways and I've never thought of
myself as being the norm likeeverybody else.
I'm unique.
So I'm hopefully going to beable to go in there and do what

(01:14:39):
those past masters have done andsuccessfully run that lodge but
at the same time put myuniqueness in there, yeah, and
become a legacy to.
Yeah, you know, when they saypast master or worshipful kevin,
they know that there is adifference between my year and
what those past masters havedone.
Um, you know, it's much respectand I will hopefully not
disappoint them if I should everget in the East.

(01:15:00):
But at the same time I want todo something respectful, but I
want to set my own uniqueness inmy own year of tenure and
that's what I'm going to do.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
I can't wait to see it.
I know that is going to happenand that's what I'm going to do.
I can't wait to see it.
I know that is going to happenand that's why you're going to
be a great master, becauseyou're going to bring all of
this history you have with youto that position.
You're doing it now.
I mean we always talk aboutbeing the master, but that's
like just another chair, likeyou know.
You're doing it now.
I mean you know you're doing itnow.
I mean you're already bringingit to your.

(01:15:33):
You're handling the trestleboard for your lodge.
You know you're trying to do alot of things that they haven't
done for some time and these areall good for the lodge and it's
good for you to have theability to do this for them,
because this is how we show ourlove.
We work that's big in masonry.
We do the work.

(01:15:54):
That's big in masonry.
We do the work.
And when you do the work, it'smeant to be hard.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
But you appreciate what is being done, yes, and you
appreciate and respect the workthat past masters and everybody
else before you came, yeah, andof course you know it's not
intimidating, but at the sametime I don't want to disappoint
everybody who came before me andI'm going to do my best to you
know, keep, Manatee and keep itshistory, and that's the big

(01:16:22):
thing.
As you mentioned the challengethat we had, you know, yes, it
was a challenge and a lot oftimes I felt the impact of, you
know what had to code last year.
You know, on the backside, but,you know, the whole time it's
like you know what.
This is just a one-time thing.
Things are going to moveforward and you know what.

(01:16:44):
We've got to adapt.
We got to move on and don't letit get to us and just move
forward.
And that's what we're going todo.
I mean, the biggest thing Ithink Manny31 is set out to do
right now is to ensure that wekeep that legacy going.

(01:17:06):
We keep that history going andyou know we're going to hit some
mountains and valleys, as allother lodges have.
And you know what.
We're no different than thanany other lodge.
We're going to peak and we'regoing to go down, but we're
going to keep going.
We're not going to stop andcease to who we are.
We're going to keep going.
And 100 years from now, whenyou've got all those past
masters and hopefully myself aswell as the current master, when

(01:17:31):
those brothers, 100 years fromnow, look back, they're going to
sit there and say they kept itgoing.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
And as I drive into the lodge, we have a I think
it's a graveyard or cemetery.
I'm trying to think there's adifference between a graveyard
and cemetery.
You know the difference correct.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
No, I don't know the difference.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
So a cemetery, well cemetery.
Well, graveyard is right nextto a church.
A cemetery doesn't have achurch so I'm trying to remember
.
I think we have a cemeteryacross the street so every time
I drive by it really I and yes,and we have past masters and
masonic's, uh, mace brothers inthat.
So every time I drive by thereI'm thinking I can't let them

(01:18:15):
disappointed.
They're watching me from acrossthe street.
They're watching us yeah.
And they're making sure, andI'm making sure, they can still
see us across the street.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
That's something important that I think more
Masons should have on their mindas they're in the line is that
don't disappoint the work thateveryone before you brought.
Don't disappoint, don'tdisappoint.
Don't do things for you, do itfor them, do it for the people
behind you.
It's not about you.
You're just a link in the chain.

Speaker 2 (01:18:45):
And that's what I've always said.
It's not the title that I have.
You come up to me and call meKevin, you could call me brother
, but it's not the title, it'sthe work and the effort and the
initiative and the love and thepassion that you have that makes
the difference.
So if I get into the East, Ithink that's great, but, yes,
it's a chair.
I'm just there to make surethat we keep going and that

(01:19:07):
legacy continues, and that'swhat we need to all focus on.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
I need you to stop saying hopefully and I think you
got to remove that stuff fromyour vocabulary it's going to
happen.
It's going to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:19:21):
Yeah, I do.
But yes, I am very positiveabout my journey and I can't
wait to see where it goes.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
You're doing a great thing for Manatee Lodge and also
for our district, because youare a traveling man, you do
visit other lodges.
You're active in the MasterMason Association.
Now, if you listen to thepodcast, one of the things I
like to do, now that it's justme and I'm interviewing a lot of
people, is give them anopportunity to have the last

(01:19:48):
word on the way out.
I've taken up an hour and 20minutes of your time.
Um, I've taken up an hour and20 minutes of your time.
Uh, we didn't get to theplaying card uh, presentation,
so I propose you come back andwe do talk in more detail about
that, now that people know whoyou are yeah, we can talk about
some of your education next time.
but um, I I want you to knowfrom me, um and sarasota lodge

(01:20:12):
you're appreciated.
Uh, you helped us from me andSarasota Lodge you're
appreciated.
You helped us a lot and you'recontinuing to help us.
The guys really do appreciateeverything that you do.
Zach called me that you werethere and he said you're always
such an awesome person, you'realways willing to help and
that's just being a good brother.
You're a good brother.
It is I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm hopeful.

(01:20:36):
I know you won't disappoint.
I have no fear that you'regoing to disappoint.
Sure, listen, you're human.
Like I'm human, we will makemistakes, we will have a bad day
, but at the end of the day, Ithink you're going to look back
and be really proud of thethings that you've done and the
people that you've impacted, asyou are currently impacting
people's lives already.

(01:20:56):
So, yes, I wanted to give youthe last word on the way out.
We have listeners all over theworld that are Masons far
outside of Florida.
So what would you like to sayto those brothers?

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
Well, first, chris, thank you for having me on here.
It's been an honor, honor.
I've listened to your podcast,for you know, for a while and,
seeing who you've had on here,it's they've inspired me,
they've impacted me and I justfeel honored that I can be one
of your guests.
So hopefully I'll be doing thesame for others out there.
My word of advice it's justlike when I have people coming

(01:21:36):
up and asking me for the adviceabout my running.
Over the years, I'veexperienced a great deal of
things and I'm going to tell youthe same thing to those
brothers Do what's best for you.
You're the only person thatcould tell you and know what's
right for you.
I could go out and run 15 milesin the morning.

(01:21:57):
That works for me.
If you can't do it, then youcould only do two.
That's best for you.
Same thing with masonry If youfeel that you can do it a
certain way, you do it.
However, what fits for you.
Don't let anybody else come upand tell you they did it this
way or it works best this way.
You do it, however, what fitsfor you.
Don't let anybody else come upand tell you they did it this
way or it works best.

(01:22:18):
This way you do what's best foryourself, and only you and the
great architect can tell youthat.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
I love it, thank you, thank you, thank you for that.
That's a great message for thebrothers to hear.
It's a personal journey in thisfraternity, just like it is,
and we're here to be betterpeople and so do what's best for
you to become a better person,correct?
Love it all right thank you,brother.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
Thank you, we'll see you next time from on the level
podcasts we're all right, thankyou, have a good one one.