Exploring Space, Art, and Masonic Journeys with Juan Sepulveda

Ever wondered how Freemasonry can shape a person's public speaking prowess? Brother Juan Sepulveda joins us to share his inspiring journey of overcoming public speaking anxiety through the opportunities provided by the Masonic fraternity. Host Chris also opens up about his own battles with public speaking and how the support system within Freemasonry has fostered his growth. Together, they recount memorable Masonic events and the pivotal role that effective communication plays in conveying the essence of Masonic teachings.

What happens when science meets mysticism? We traverse through fascinating discussions ranging from the evolution of stem cell research perceptions to the groundbreaking launch of the James Webb Space Telescope. We also touch upon the Catholic Church's historical resistance to scientific progress, the marvels and fears associated with particle physics, and the ever-shifting public opinion on scientific advancements. Personal stories and insightful commentary make this a rich exploration of how modern science continues to shape our understanding of the cosmos.

Art and symbolism take center stage as we explore the intersection of science, religion, and art in understanding the universe. Brother Juan Sepulveda, a Masonic artist and surrealist, shares his artistic journey and how it complements the intellectual exploration within Freemasonry. Dive into discussions about ancient texts, generational archetypes, and the profound moral lessons embedded in symbols. This episode promises to engage your mind and spirit, offering a blend of personal experiences, artistic insights, and timeless wisdom.

#freemasonry #freemason #astrology #astronomy 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
you've reached the internet's home for all things
masonry.
Join on the level podcast as weplumb the depths of our ancient
craft and try to unlock themysteries, dispel the fallacies
and utilize the teachings offreemasonry to unlock the
greatness within each of us.
I have you now.
Welcome back to on the levelpodcast.

(00:58):
Today we have, uh, a frozenmatt stone.
He is an icicle of a man there.
He'll probably come back.
He's having some thunderstormsin the Turkey Creek area.
Oh, he's bounced out.
And our main guest today isbrother, my brother, juan
Sepulveda.
I probably said that horriblywrong.
Welcome to the podcast, brotherSepulveda.
Thank you very much, brother,chris.

(01:19):
Oh, hold your thought.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Hold your thought.
Yeah, so I put the strength inthe pull.
So it's.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Sepulveda, sepulveda.
Oh, that makes more sense,sepulveda.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Well, thank you so much for having me.
It's been a pleasure to spendsome time with you in different
events and now finally get achance to sit down and have a
conversation over the podcastI'm I'm honored to be invited.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
Honestly, really thank you for coming, because
I've been a fan of yours eversince I first.
Uh, you didn't meet me, but Isaw you.
Um, and matt's back.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
He's unfrozen welcome back, matt.
By the way, the whole I.
I hopped in and you're likewell, you didn't meet me.
I saw you.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
What a way to make it real.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Chris.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
I'm a creep.
I wasn't even invited.
I was creeping from a window.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
I knew I saw something weird back there, by
the way, that new bed spreadlooks fantastic.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
You smell different when you're awake.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
This is going in the direction I like no, but
seriously, I I actually.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
The first time I I met you in person was at the
hillsborough lodge, and theywere doing a masonic education
symposium that we both spoke at.
That's right.
Um, I was nervous as hell butyou were smooth as butter man.
You did a great presentationthat really touched I'm going to
rephrase that for Matt'spurposes that really spoke to me

(02:53):
.
I know that I was about to sethim up for a good one and I did
not want him to knock that onedown First off.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
How rude.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
How dare you take the softball from me, sir?
I really should have.
Okay, it really touched me.
He's not going to touch thatone now.
No, but I was watching you givea speech.
I have an issue with publicspeaking that I've struggled
with.
One of the things that masonryhas probably helped me with the
most in my life is that issue,which I totally could never have

(03:25):
expected.
Man, like, when I came to alodge, I didn't know anybody in
Freemasonry or anything aboutFreemasonry.
I met a friend that was a Masonand so because of him, I looked
into it, and he's not even fromour state.
So I went into a lodge notknowing anyone or knowing
anything about Freemasonry.
So the only question I asked,the only thing that mattered to
me, was hey, there's no publicspeaking in this right.

(03:47):
And they were like no, no, ofcourse not none at all.
And I think I became an EA.
And it was the same night.
They're like okay, time to getready for your give back.
And I'm like what is a giveback?
And they're like, oh, you'regoing to stand in front of
everybody and we're going tohumiliate you and you're going
to have to do from memory.
I'm like what?
I'm out.

(04:08):
I did not sign up for this andI realized this is why I'm here
I have to deal with this crap.
So I've been on a journey ofgetting better at it, and so
when I saw you speak and we weretalking about this a little bit
before the episode started Igot like really, you know, it
seemed effortless.

(04:28):
You didn't seem to have a bigego.
A lot of guys that are reallygood at public speaking have a.
It comes across like they'rereally egotistical, and you
didn't come across that way.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
And it was the same with Daniel.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Molina.
You guys both gave like someawesome presentations.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Thank you.
I love that, dude, I do.
I have been in love with publicspeaking for most of my life.
I was the kid that whenever Ihad a grade that was kind of
like flailing, I would approachthe teacher and say any chance I
can get some extra credit,maybe a presentation.
You want to do a presentation?

(05:03):
Yeah, On anything.
Are you sure a presentation?
Yeah, on anything.
Are you sure on anything?
Yeah, potassium it is.
I did a presentation onpotassium and I got to say
Potassium On potassium.
It was a chemistry class, soyeah.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
So you just came out the womb like look at me, look
at me.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
I really enjoyed, you know, going out learning,
having the pressure, knowingthat I have to be ready to
present, and then standing upthere and distilling what I
learned.
I've always enjoyed that and Ihave to say you did very well on
that presentation, so you hitit.
If you had any problems with it, I think you hit it very well.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
So that's very nice of you to say, yeah, no, I did.
And so the guy I did it withused to be my co-host on the
show, fred Packwood, and hecould attest to you if he was
here.
Like I can start off strong andI bring a lot like try to
disappear the longer it goes on,and he's pointed that out to me

(06:11):
and I'm like, yeah, like ifyou're there, and you're paying
attention, you'll see howterrified I am.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
That's interesting, like nerves and anxiety.
All of that manifestsdifferently for people.
One interesting thing that usedto happen to me a lot it hasn't
happened recently, but it'shappened within a few years is
that I know I have to give apresentation.
I'm not 100% sure when in themeeting or when in the event
it's going to happen.
So I'm waiting for the cue andit happens and I'm not nervous.

(06:41):
I stand up, I deliver, I doeverything, I try to close, make
sure that I do the best that Icould, and then I sit down and I
get this rush of nervousnessafter I'm done with the
presentation.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
I get all my confidence right after.
I feel like, oh my God, I coulddo this every day.
I'm the king of the world.
And then the next day,someone's like you should do
that again.
And I'm like what?

Speaker 2 (07:12):
I'll tell you this One thing hearing your example,
when you joined Masonry, youhave this issue with public
speaking.
You were surprised by being ableto return the catechism.
You're not alone in that.
There's a lot of brothers thatjoin Masonry and they are not
particularly fond of standing infront of a crowd and being

(07:35):
examined.
Basically, One thing to takeout of this brief exchange is
the fact that there are peopleat different levels in standing
in front of a crowd presenting,and you know the benefits that
come with being able to stand infront of other people and share
an idea effectively because ithelps you at at lodge, it can

(07:58):
help you at work, it can helpyou in your church, anywhere in
your own, your own home, at home, exactly.
So just lean on a brother.
If you see a brother that youlike how he delivers the lecture
, you know a brother and youlike how he stands up and gives
the charge at the opening of themeeting, ask them for some tips

(08:19):
.
Offer yourself as a sacrificeand do it yourself on the next
degree.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
I mean, it's the only way I learned that as a
sacrifice, and do it yourself onthe next degree.
It's the only way I learnedthat as a man, the only way,
because I don't have a fear.
I have a phobia.
It's beyond a fear, it's anirrational fear.
I have no control over it.
My body reacts in a way that Idon't want it to.
Things start to shut down mymind.
The first time I ever sat inthe East, my vision got so

(08:48):
tunneled down to like.
It looked like I had like a onelittle hole I was looking out
of like I'm pretty sure I wasabout to pass out.
That's amazing.
And so my first word from theeast was this and everyone was
like oh my god, is he okay?
And I'm like I'm sorry I had toget that.

(09:08):
I think I feel better now andthen we proceeded like it's not
a normal response to fear, butactually because of this phobia.
I've researched it and it's thenumber one fear that people
have is public above death.
People fear public speaking.
Yeah, so to have a mastery ofit innately gives you a huge
advantage over other humans, youknow.

(09:30):
You should have gone intopolitics.
You could be running countriesright now.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Maybe someday I'll run a community club or
something.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
Okay.
So I just heard the door opento Juan running for Grandmaster
one day I don't know if you'relistening, we will.
We'll set up a gofundme.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
He's gonna run for the grand line excellent
goodness you heard it here firston the level podcast don't give
me some, don't give me enemies,so early in the show the target
just got huge no, I I doappreciate the no so your
presentation was actually itwasn't just your speaking, but
the content of your presentationthat day kind of spoke to me.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
It was about communion with the divine and it
was about astronomy.
It was about the web telescopeand what it's doing for us as a
species and how science istaking the unknowable and making
it knowable and that isbringing us closer to god.
Yeah, uh, imagine that scienceis and I I am.

(10:35):
I don't know how you guys, I I'mreally curious how matt feels
about this because he's the mostdevout religious of the three
of us, but to I don't understandthe religious people who kind
of don't like science becauseit's bringing us closer to God
in my view.
Like you know, the more weunderstand the world, the more
we see how complex and how, like, the rules don't really apply

(11:00):
at the quantum level.
So the tinier and the closer welook at things, the more I
think it answers our questionsand feeds into the idea that
there is a creator, there is anintelligence behind this.
So I'm curious how you feelabout that, matt especially.
Do you feel like science isgetting you closer to your

(11:22):
relationship or is it somethingto be feared from a church going
man?

Speaker 3 (11:27):
yourself.
No, I don't.
I don't think science should befeared at all.
And I started to form thisopinion.
I was in, I think, either middleschool or early high school
whenever the whole stem cellargument was coming across in
the late 90s, early 2000s, thatwhole stem cell thing.
They were like, oh, they'rekilling babies and they're, you
know, they're using that toharvest stem cells.

(11:48):
And it's like my daughter isgoing to be three in August and
we actually were able to takepart of the umbilical cord and
save and freeze those stem cellsso that way, if my daughter
ever has a serious disease inthe future, um, they can utilize
those stem cells for, like, abone marrow transplant or
something along those lines.
My dad passed away fromcomplications with cancer.

(12:08):
So this is all something that Istudied very heavily.
So I look at it and it's likeall right.
The people that were saying, ohno, they're killing babies,
don't really understand.
You can get it from theumbilical cord, you can get the
stem cells from that.
I think it's a, it's a matterof ignorance, and so you kind of
have this like I don't know howto call it, but like a
knee-jerk reaction of likethey're killing babies and

(12:30):
that's always the go-to for thechurch is they're killing babies
and that's such an emotional,visceral connection people have
to protecting children.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yes, when you say you're hurting babies, we're
immediately going to hate thatidea, whatever it is.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
Yeah, and so I I kind of started to change my mind on
the whole science conversation,Cause I know the, you know, the
Catholic church has their wholehistory of like off with his
head.
Um, so I know they have thatwhole ordeal.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
Um.
What do you mean?

Speaker 3 (12:54):
the sun doesn't revolve around the earth.
Prison for 10 years for you,sir.
Yeah, exactly so uh, I I kindof started to change my mind on
it, and especially when it youknow.
So I kind of started to changemy mind on it, and especially
whenever they found the Godparticle, and so whenever they
looked at the fact that wheneveran embryo is fertilized,
there's actually a flash oflight that happens those sorts

(13:15):
of things, no-transcript andit's like whenever we talk about
that, we are the light of theworld, and it's like, oh,

(13:36):
there's actually a flash oflight that happens whenever a a
or sorry, whenever a, um, an eggis implanted.
You know, it's just I thinkit's cool.
I like science.
I just wish CERN would stop alltheir stuff that they're doing,
but that's for another time.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
You don't want a black hole to originate
underneath the crust of theearth.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
No, I'm a huge fan of not starting black holes
underneath the crust of theearth, actually.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
They're tiny and temporary, so no need to worry
about it.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yeah, it's totally the earth.
Actually, they're tiny andtemporary, so no need to worry.
Totally fine, totallycontrolled.
I'm not taking back what I said, no science is is amazing and
frightening and terrifying.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
It's like everything all rolled into one for me, like
I'm terrified by the fact thatwe, you know, these people doing
science, are just meat fleshpeople like me.
Like I know they're smarterthan me, but they're not.
They're not like magnitudes ofintelligence smarter than me,

(14:33):
and this is dangerous stuff.
When you get into the quantumand you're talking about, like
you know, generating microscopicblack holes and trying to
recreate a wormhole, andanti-gravity, which is going to
involve insane amounts ofmagnetic fields which can rip

(14:54):
our planet.
This stuff is no joke.
The atomic weapon itself isphysics and I was just reading
an interview where someonethat's in the military literally
said look, if this alien thingturns out, you know, to be
interdimensional or something.
We're literally going toclassify mathematics, parts of

(15:15):
mathematics, which is what wedid in the 60s.
They classified certain aspectsof mathematics, like certain
physics were classified by theus government and you couldn't
learn it interesting, teach itor talk about it yeah, um, you
mentioned.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
You mentioned that there's obviously there's an
element of how much do we knowof what they're doing?
right and if you, if you go backto the root of where fear comes
from, most of the fear that weexperience comes from the not
knowing.
I don't know what's behind thisdoor or I don't know what's

(15:55):
making that sound.
I don't know what this personis capable of doing.
So a lot of the fear that comesor manifests itself against
these kinds of search for lightif we can keep it in the theme
of the conversation that searchfor light is trying to answer

(16:18):
some of these questions that wemay have, so that we're no
longer afraid or we have abetter idea of what we need to
be afraid and not.
I do with the presentation ofthe James Webb telescope.
When I start talking about it,I mentioned how I came up with

(16:39):
the idea, and it was that I waswaiting for many, many years for
the Aaron's 5 rocket to takethe James Webb telescope up to
space.
So when it actually took off,it was December, the 25th of
2021.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
It was after the day after Christmas it went up.
It was Christmas Day, christmas.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Day.
Um.
So here I'm in the middle of myliving room looking at a tiny
little screen of this thingtaking off, uh in, into space,
cause I knew what what washappening there.
Nobody cared.
None of my friends knew whatwas happening, yeah.

(17:19):
I was in pins and needles.
I knew that the cargo that wason the inside, the fairings of
that, that rocket we had hubblein my mind.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
We got hubble.
That's the best.
Yeah, what else do?
We need that's the best of mylifetime.
It's already there like we'regood, right, yeah?

Speaker 2 (17:37):
but no, this is.
The capacity of this thing tolook with more precision to the
things that we got a hint aboutwith Hubble is incredible.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
It is incredible.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
The size difference, the ability to remain perfectly
still, which is one of thethemes of the presentation, is
remaining perfectly still,perfectly quiet, which meant
this telescope is going to beput in a place of space, which

(18:12):
is the specific location iscalled the Lagrange point.
This is the Lagrange pointnumber two, and it's just a
pocket of gravity, if you canthink that the gravity of the
sun is pulling one way.
The sun is pulling one way, theearth is pulling another, the
moon is pulling here, theplanets or anything else that's
around, it's pulling, butthere's these pockets where the
pull of everything becomes likean equilibrium and you can put

(18:37):
something there and it's notfalling towards anything.
It's just perfectly quiet,perfectly still.
And in addition to that, theJames Webb telescope one
difference, main difference thatit had from the Hubble was that
it had this complex array ofshields to cover the sun from

(18:59):
its instruments for two reasonsto prevent the light of the sun
to contaminate the light thatit's going to be receiving from
other celestial bodies, but alsothe heat.
So the instruments in thistelescope had to get to such a
low temperature that it neededthis complex array of shields to

(19:22):
protect it.
And in the presentation I make ajoke about.
Okay, dork, what does any ofthis have to do with Freemasonry
?
Here you're holding me for 10minutes talking about this
stupid telescope.
What's the?

Speaker 1 (19:34):
deal.
It really did.
I was thinking that, as youwere giving the presentation, I
was like where's he going withthis?

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Get to the point, sir , but the thing is that when I
started thinking about what thistelescope is doing in order to
see further in the universe, Isaw so many parallels with our
efforts to correspond with thedivine, for us to communicate

(20:01):
with what we call deity or Godor whatever we want to call it
the unknown, the unknown, theunknowable.
That which some may be in fearof because they don't understand
, and we need to search forlight in order to understand it
better and know what to fear andwhat to not fear.

(20:21):
So it requires that we are ableto shield ourselves from the
terrestrial.
So, just like the shields inthe James Webb telescope are
shielding the instruments ofthis telescope, we need to find
ways for us to shield ourselvesfrom the terrestrial
distractions.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
The noise, the chatter this side and that side,
and what about this and that?
And oh, you got to recycle, butthis and that You're like ah.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
Not only that, but to your earlier point and, chris,
to your point where you're likeoh, we have Hubble, we're fine,
also to shield us from what weknow is the current truth.
And by the current truth and bythe current truth, if you look
out the James Webb telescope, ifmemory serves me right, correct
me if I'm wrong, but the JamesWebb telescope has essentially

(21:13):
shown where there are superearths out there capable of
sustaining life.
And so whenever you talk toChristians and you're like, hey,
is there life on other planets?
No, because it's not in theBible.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
My response to them every single time is why are you
putting god in such a small box?
Is it, yeah, yeah?
Is your god not strong enough,or capable, or not capable of?

Speaker 1 (21:35):
his answer, can you?
Be, careful with that answer,because you may you may like
crumble your whole philosophysystem if you say that your god
isn't strong enough to have putlife on other planets.
Is that it's like that?

Speaker 2 (21:51):
um, like that question said, can god create a
rock so heavy even he couldn'tlift it?
And then some people go intoshock and like get offline.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
It's like a robot malfunction.
Like does not compute cannot.

Speaker 3 (22:11):
I call that the AOL dial up tone face.
I know.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
But there's so much we don't know and the only way
that we can learn about it isthrough a search.
It's through looking up,looking out, trying to figure
out.
How do we get from a place ofignorance or a place of darkness
and into a place of knowledgeand light, so that parallel of

(22:40):
the telescope trying to putitself in the perfect conditions
to be able to even understandwhat god means.
I mean god means somethingcompletely different to the
three of us.
You have a differentrelationship with deity than I
do and then matt does like.
It is something different toeach of us, but the only way

(23:00):
that we can get closer to thetruth, wherever that truth lives
, is through that search.
And in our case, the effectivesearch for light requires that
we prepare our instrument sothat analogy of perfectly still
and perfectly quiet it'smaterialized in us, allowing

(23:25):
yourself to shut down thatcacophony in your mind, to relax
to a point of meditation orprayer, so that now you are able
to filter the noise from thesignal.
I don't know if you have haveany of you tried to do like
astrophotography before I havewith my iPhone and it doesn't
work out so well.

(23:46):
Okay, well, I tried to makemagic with a telescope that I
had and a camera, and I startedresearching and trying to inform
myself.
How is it done?
And there was one thing that Iknew If we are rotating right,

(24:07):
so we have earth is rotating andwhat we're looking at is so far
away from us that the lightcoming from it is so faint.
You need to train yourtelescope to stay looking at it
for a long period of time inorder for all that light to be
captured by your camera.
Well, a lot of theastrophotography that is able to

(24:29):
look so clear and so crisp isbecause the um, what do you call
that?
The, the lens, the?
Well, what collects theinformation?
The whole mechanism.
So you have the lens and thenyou have the receptor back here.
Whatever this thing is called,it has to be trained on the
object with no movement at all,for the long.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
That's why they use arrays, right, they have like,
uh, different areas of the earthwhere they have these things,
so as the earth spins, they cankeep it trained on that object
exactly.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
That's one of the.
That's one, one of the waysthat it's able to do Like with
Hubble, for example, becauseit's out in space.
You can keep it pointing atwhatever for the length of time
that you can.
But with a camera down here youspend five minutes, you know,
with your lens and aperture, andwhatever you were looking at
has already streaked, you know,enough degrees that it's going

(25:26):
to make your image blurry.
So part of the process inastrophotography, one of the
techniques that you can do isthat you take multiple exposures
Okay, multiple exposures in thesame area and then you line all
of the images together and youare able to run a filter so you

(25:47):
blend all of those imagestogether.
Some of it is going to be noiseand some of it is going to be
real signal or light coming fromthese objects.
So when you run this algorithm,it cleans out all the noise and
then you're able to get themessage.
Basically it's like oh, yeah,look how I can, I can see the
rings around this planet.
Yeah, you know.

(26:07):
Now think about how could thatapply to us?
You know you can, I can tellyou exactly how.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Tell me, I want to hear, I want to have moved to a
very hidden away place in southcarolina.
I have surrounded forests.
I have no people near me.
I don't go out anymore.
I don't go to lodges, I don'tgo to work.
It's quiet.
When I go outside at night,it's not quiet because there's

(26:36):
life everywhere.
I'm surrounded by life, butit's a different kind of life
than I was surrounded by when Iwas living in a city.
That's human life, human life isis a whole nother kind of busy
sound Now that I'm out here inthe quiet.
I spent a certain amount oftime adjusting my life right,
like physically, monetarilythings I had to do.

(26:58):
Once that was over, the biggestchallenge I dealt with was my
mind.
It was so quiet that I had todeal with all the voices in my
head that I subconsciously wasfilling up my life with noise so
I wouldn't hear it.
And the biggest challenge I hadmoving out here was dealing
with myself.

(27:18):
That's the truth To deal withthose voices that you don't want
to listen to from your past,from the things that you've done
, like all the bad things inlife that we run from.
From the things that you'vedone, like all the bad things in
life that we run from, we don'twant to face.
When you're alone in the quiet,that's what you have to deal
with, because that's all you'vegot.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah, that's amazing.
That's amazing.
And think about you knowanother way to look at the whole
noise to signal ratio.
You have, let's say, the threeof us have this conversation and
we're done.
You know, we hang up, we go sitdown, drink something.
You're like you know what, like, like what Matt said about um,

(28:02):
about the stem cells and the,the embryos.
Like you know, I think he wasonto something with that, and
then I'll start churning on thatlittle bit of information that
I gleaned from this conversationand then we'll have another
exposure to a similar theme whenI go and hang out with my
friends after lunch and you haveall these exposures of

(28:26):
conversations related to thissearch for light, and when you
put put all those together, youmay be able to also discern a
pattern from that whole noise.
Just like you stacked all theimages to create an
astrophotography that was cleanand crisp about these celestial

(28:47):
bodies in the.
In the extent to which you arehaving these conversations with
other men that are alsosearching to become better
fathers, better husbands, betterentrepreneurs, you are giving
yourself the all these layersthat you're going to combine and
try to filter out the noise andfind these nuggets.

(29:10):
I can see it with clarity nowthat this is what's valuable.
This is what's important.
This is what I was looking for.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
If I may, I have a story that would add on to that.
So the church that I was mostrecently attending I had been
there for 15 years Met my wifethere.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
Wait, wait, wait, wait wait, are you not attending
that church anymore?
Okay, we have another podcast.
Oh episode two, let's do it.
I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
Okay, go ahead and my wife and I are currently
looking for another church.
I mean, we're not giving up onthe institution known as church.
But whenever I was able to stepaway from that church, because
I was so heavily involved withleadership within that church,
with, uh, organizing within thatchurch, with I was trying to

(29:58):
organize a men's ministry, um, Iwas their only song leader.
Um, you know, and the churchthat I was going to is all
acapella.
There we don't have instruments.
Oh wow, um, so I was their onlysong.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
You don't have a drummer in a cage and smoke
everywhere.
You don't have instruments.
Oh well, really, so I was theironly song.
You don't have a drummer in acage and smoke everywhere.
You don't have all that stuffthat churches have these days.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah, no, the, the preacher doesn't come down on
like a zip wire.
You know none of that.
Wow, yeah.
So, so either way it was.
It was so interesting becausewhenever I was so worked up and
I found myself angry and I waswas angry because I had a
disagreement with the elders andso I found myself angry.

(30:35):
But whenever I left the churchand it was like a burden was
taken off of me, it's just likeweight off of my shoulders, and
then I was able to just sit backand I went.
I totally lost the focus ofwhat church is meant for Because
I got so wrapped up in thepolitics of church.
I lost the worship of God,right, and that's a problem.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Wow, this is what happens to most elders, I think,
in most organizations.
Yeah, they get caught up in themundane, they get caught up in
the political BS, thebureaucracy, and they lose sight
of what it's all there for inthe first place.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yeah, sometimes you have to be perfectly still and
perfectly quiet so you canreconnect with whatever that
purpose was.
What did you come here insearch of?
And it was the stars andanything in them.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
How did that start for you?
Where did your interest inastronomy come from originally?

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Great question.
One of the earliest memories Ihave of astronomy was when Comet
Halley was the Halley-Boppcomet.
Is that what that is?
No, no, this is before thatComet Halley.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
This isn't the one that the cult uh drank the
kool-aid and cut their nuts offand all that no, no, there's a
whole religious group around thehaley bop comment.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
I think that's yeah, the hail bob.
Uh, this one, you mean anoutdoor degree in masonry the
one I'm talking is halley's.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Halley's comet.
Uh, yeah, it has a an orbitthat is 72 to 80 years around
the sun, so I may not see itagain, because I remember I'm
trying to find here in googlewhat year it was when it last
came, but I remember there was alittle robot when I was a kid

(32:31):
called 2XL.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
It was a little toy you could buy and that was one
of his facts was the Haley Comet.
That came like every 75 or 80years, that's it, and it was
coming around the time I hadthat toy.
So I'm 49.
You're like 44,.
You said 45.
45.
So I'm guessing you wereprobably like very young.
I was Five or six years oldprobably.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, I just checked here.
1986 was the last perihelion.
Yeah, so no, you mean the yearI was born Really 86?

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Mm-hmm, oh look at that you were, how old 37.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Going to be 38 in August.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
You're a spring chicken.
I know that's awesome.
But I remember this comet wascoming and my family was making
arrangements for us to go and afew families stay in some cabins
up in the mountains in PuertoRico.
There's like a mountain thathad like either an observatory
or somewhere where they couldput their telescopes to check
this thing out.

(33:33):
And I was so excited to seethis thing.
I knew there was gonna be acomet and I this was gonna be
the first time I was gonna see acomet and I was so excited.
But it was gonna be very lateat night and they had to like
either hike or something likethat to get to the location and

(33:53):
I'm ready to go.
And my dad's like no, no, no,you can't come.
You got to stay here with yourmom.
And I was in shock.
I'm like what, what do you mean?
Like we came here to see thisthing and like I have to stay
behind and they wouldn't let mego.
I didn't go see it.
Oh damn yeah, oh damn yeah.

(34:14):
So I was like oh my god, thatwas so like.
I was so close, I thought I wasgonna see it.
I couldn't see it.
You know, to make a a longstory short.
They didn't see it either, sohuh, take that, daddy jokes on
you yeah, how do you like that?
but the point is like that kindof I think, set off some
interest in it and my dad had atelescope so we would look at

(34:34):
the moon Anytime there was anykind of celestial occurrence
that was of significance.
I remember us bringing ourtelescope out and setting it on
the hood of our car and havingthese like awe-inspiring moments
, looking at the craters of themoon and everything.
So that's how it started for meand I've never lost it.

(34:57):
I live in central Florida and Irarely miss a rocket launch
from the Cape.
I can see them from my frontyard.
So I watch them online asthey're counting down, them
online as they're counting downand whenever you know, I take my
phone, keep the recordingplaying on my phone and I walk
to the front of the house and Isee it go to space my wife does

(35:19):
the exact same thing.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
It does not literally wake me up in the middle of the
night, really.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, she, she's ahuge astronomy nerd huge like I
would almost want her on thispodcast to talk to you.
She'd check your ear off.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Well, bring her in.
The thing is like it's not likeyou just standing there talking
.
He backs it up with experiments, like you did live experiments
with.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
I can explain one of them that I did.
I wanted to further illustratethat whole noise to signal ratio
and how having too much noisemakes it difficult for you to
get the signal.
And what I did?
I got volunteers to line up andthen I got the first brother in
the front of the line to startreciting three numbers and he

(36:11):
would mouth the numbers justvery softly, say those numbers
over and over and over again.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
I think in our case you had them singing a song.
Mary had a Little Lamb, Ibelieve, is the song you had
them singing, that's true, buthere's another little insight
into public speaking.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
I'm always tweaking it and I realized that having
people do something thateverybody knows is what's
important.
If you tell them, oh, just sayanything.
They forget language, theydon't speak, they have no
recollection of letters andnumbers, and none of that it's
amazing to see.
So you have to be very specific, very precise, very decisive

(37:00):
and assertive, and you're goingto say this over and over again.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
Interesting.
Yeah, there's a little pro tipfor public speakers out there.
Yeah, really.
For public speakers out thereyeah, really.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
So I had the brother say imagine this brother here
saying a sequence of numbersover and over and over again.
And then I have this one at thevery end trying to decipher
what this brother is saying.
Well, this is the signal andthis is the receptor.
And in between them I had fiveother brothers, like you said,
singing a song and waving theirhands, hands.

(37:33):
So all of that interferencemade it almost impossible for
that brother to hear what theother one was saying.
But the moment that I tell allof them to be quiet and still,
then the signal came through andthe brother oh oh, yeah, he's
saying 357.
Of course, that's exactly whathappens.

(37:56):
I don't know, Can you see theimage that I shared?
Yeah, okay, so the same thinghappens with astrophotography
happening and the, the sensorthat's receiving the light, can

(38:16):
distinguish what's noise fromwhat's light and and shadow.
It's just reacting to whateverit sees.
So, like I said earlier, thelonger the exposure, uh, the
greater the light collector, thebetter, which is one of the
reasons why the Webb telescopeis better.
Here's the comparison of thesizes.
So you have 2.4 meters acrossthe Hubble telescope compared to

(38:41):
6.6 meters, and there's anotherbig difference the Hubble
orbits around the sun.
So what you're?

Speaker 1 (38:49):
saying here is size, does matter.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
It does matter.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
You have to be perfectly still.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
Chris just couldn't help himself.
I know, if I have a chance tobe an elementary school student,
I will.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
But also look in this graph.
You can see the Hubble is only350 miles above the surface of
the Earth, while the Webbtelescope is almost a million
miles away.
Yeah, so it is in the perfectplace to be quiet and still and
looking at the light.
But what I was going to showyou is look at the difference in

(39:26):
quality of these two images,one taken by theble telescope
and one by the james webbtelescope, and I encourage you
to go out there and look at thecomparisons of these two.
And if you ever come across animage like this and you don't
know which telescope took ithubble telescope because of the
shape, because of thearchitecture of the lens and the

(39:49):
structure the stars that arepart of the image have four
bursts star bursts.
You see them?
Meanwhile, the shape of theJames Webb telescope is a
hexagon and you have six starbursts.
Can you see them?

Speaker 3 (40:06):
Now for those listening on Audio One what is
it that we're staring at?
So that way they can Google theimages.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Oh, perfect.
So we're looking at the Pillarsof Life image from the James
Webb Telescope.
So this is a nebula formation.
So this is so gigantic Like youcan't.
Obviously, just by looking at iton the screen, you can't
understand what you're lookingat.
But inside of these structuresof gas that are floating out in

(40:33):
unimaginable distances, starsare being born, and one thing
that you'll notice when you seethese, these two different
images, is that in the one takenby the hubble telescope, you
see these stars sprinklethroughout the image and you can
tell they're stars because theyhave these little starbursts.
Yeah, of course, on the onefrom the james webb telescope,

(40:57):
if you look really carefully, inall the empty space between the
stars, you see all these otherlittle lights.
Those are galaxies.
So, wow, it's not just a star,we're talking about galaxies
that have billions of stars inthem.
Wow, now we couldn't see thatfar when we put the Hubble

(41:21):
telescope up there.
It required better preparation,better tools.
No-transcript.

(41:59):
All of these are methods andtools that we can implement so
that we can have a bettercommunication with the divine,
because, in essence, we'regetting rid of so much of the
noise and so much of theinterference so that our eyes
can really perceive that whichlies beyond Not only that, but
also to your point.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
One of the things that I've discovered in Mesa
Dream is when I take myday-to-day interactions and I
take how I conduct myself.
Chris had mentioned and, by theway, he'll be back on here in a
second he just lost power athis house, but Chris had
mentioned about getting thewives on, and so since I've
joined Masonry, one of thethings that I have really

(42:40):
focused on is keeping my temper,my anger, all those things in
check.
And so one of the things thatshe said to me recently she
looked over at me in the livingroom one night and I was
catching her over at me in theliving room one night and I was.
I catch her staring at me andI'm like what do you want?
And she goes.
You know, it just hit me Causewe had just had a difficult
conversation about something andI was like what's that?
She goes.
I like this version of you.

(43:00):
Oh, that's nice, the fact thatI'm able to circumscribe and the
fact that I'm able to chisel atmyself, that I'm able to look
at my interaction and look at mywife and say, hey, that's
another part of me.
I don't want to make her angry.
My war is with the world.
My wife is my peace, but alsoit's the same thing with my

(43:22):
brothers in the lodge.
With my brothers in the lodge.
I don't want to intentionallyhurt my brothers in the lodge,
people that I'm interacting withon a day-to-day basis.
I don't know what they're, whatthey're dealing with.
I have no idea what they'redealing with.
It is so simple for me to justbe a consistent man the entire
time be nice, be polite, becourteous and hey, how can I
help you today?
I love that.

(43:42):
What can I do to make your daybetter?

Speaker 2 (43:43):
That's awesome, and if we only had that perspective
more often.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
it would be such a better place to live in.
It would, it absolutely would.
And I think there's a lot ofthose tenants that and again,
I'm not beating up on theinstitution that is the church I
want to be very clear on thatbut I think the church has lost
some of those teachingssomewhere along the line and
it's turned into.
For example, there's this wholenew faction of I think it's
called New Age Christianity,where they're referring to God

(44:15):
as daddy.
Oh, that's gross, right, that'sgross Disgusting.
And so I kind of look at it andit's like all right, like if,
hey, chris is back, welcome.
Um.
I kind of look at it as allright if church were to be
teaching those exact same tenets, because the tenets that we
have in masonry aren't toodissimilar from the tenets that
are found in the bible.
They're really not.

(44:36):
And so if they were to beteaching those tenets of hey,
here's how you be a better man,a better woman.
Here's how you interact withpeople.
Here's how you be a better man,a better woman.
Here's how you interact withpeople.
Here's how you control yourtemper.
Here's how you keep your mouthshut whenever you say things
that you really want to say, andyou probably shouldn't say it
unless you want to get smackedin the mouth those sorts of
things.
I honestly do believe with allmy heart that the world would be
a better place.

(44:56):
Masonry has helped me with that.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
That's something that I was missing in church.
The thing is that it is in yourdogma, it is in the book, it's
all over the book.
The problem is that these booksof faith, in my mind they're
really good vessels of morallessons.
That's really what they are.
If you read through there,there's like moral lesson after
moral lesson after moral lesson.
Through there there's likemoral lesson after moral lesson

(45:24):
after moral lesson.
But we don't focus on thelessons, we focus on these
little details and we twist themand we make them something that
maybe they are, maybe they'renot, maybe they are today and
they weren't yesterday, likeit's called, that's called
legalism, but the lessons aretimeless yeah, the lessons never
change.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
The.
The hang-up is, and to to kindof bring it back to Juan's point
and want to being able to lookat something like the telescopes
in this presentation that youjust gave, and the fact that you
were able to take a morallesson from just basically a
science experiment.
You're the.
You block out the noise.
That way you can see thepicture more clearly.
You block out the noise, thatway you can see the picture more

(46:03):
clearly.
Every single person that hastraveled to the mountains and
looked up at the sky knowsexactly what you just said and
has not put it into sucheloquent words.
Because you go up to themountains and you're like, oh my
gosh, the stars are beautiful.
And it's like well, becauseyou're not getting the light
pollution of the subdivision.
That's why.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Matt, you touched on something that was going through
my mind as I was seeing thispresentation given live, which
was where did he formulate theidea for this?
Like this didn't happen like inone sitting.
I imagine this took you a bit.
And like, how do you like Iwant yeah, I'm curious like how
you had the idea, how you ranwith it to create a whole

(46:38):
presentation out of it and thenhad the balls to stand up and
tell your personal thoughts topeople Like well, it's
fascinating.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
I appreciate the question because it's one aspect
of public speaking that Ireally love and nobody gets to
see it.
This is super mine, you knowit's like yeah yeah, yeah.
And I'll run you a little bitthrough the whole thing.
I belong to a Masonic groupthat required that there was

(47:06):
some sort of labor done.
I had to do a paper in order tocontinue.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
Is it still a legal Masonic group according to our
great grandmaster?

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Very, very legal, yeah, okay.
Just checking Um, so it it.
I started looking okay, whatthings I'm interested in, that I
could create a presentationthat it's going to meet the
requirements of of the requestbut also not feel like a boring

(47:40):
thing that's too far out of mywheelhouse.
So I started looking at.
The principle of hermeticism iswhat I was, that's what it all
started with, and you'll findthat replete throughout
Freemasonry the principles ofhermeticism.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Oh absolutely.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
This is that as above so below.
That's the second principle ofhermeticism, which is the
principle of correspondence, andit just takes a little bit of
connective tissue to go from asabove so below to see the
connection of what's out thereand what's in here.

(48:24):
So you're able to see thatthere are patterns that repeat
themselves in the cosmos as wellas in ourselves, right, and
I've always been fascinated withthat synchronicity.
It's like you have um.
One of the things that I say islike in space, why are all

(48:49):
these planets going around thesun?
Well, because the sun is themost massive item in the solar
system.
It contains the most mass.
Thereby it has the most gravity, and I find that the fatter I
get, the more people like me.
I don't know if it's there's aconnection there.

(49:12):
I don't know if you noticed it.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Listen, it's because you're less threatening.
Okay, Everybody wants somebody.
Everybody wants a fat friend.
That's right.
All right, everybody wants afat friend.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Nobody wants sharp edges, soft cheeks rounded.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Well, it's true.
I mean, there are certainthings that are ingrained in our
DNA.
Like you're an artist, so Iknow that.
You know this, I don't evenhave to tell you.
But when you hear a very low,deep sound, like a really low,
deep sound, your brain is wiredto understand that's dangerous,

(49:48):
because that's an animal biggerthan me that can eat me.
And you hear a tiny,high-pitched noise.
We love it because we're like,oh, harmless, like I could eat
it.
Like, at our most basic core,it's that simple we fear things
and we don't there's things thatshould fear us, right, like at
our most basic core.
It's that simple where we fearthings and we don't, there's

(50:08):
things that should fear us,right, and so I think that plays
a little bit into this.
Yeah, is is that like corething that we don't, we don't
think about, but it's in all ofus, at our, at our core, that
keeps us safe.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Yeah, and think that we may be getting away from
being in touch with a lot ofthese intuitions.
Yes, and sometimes it's not bychoice, sometimes it's just by
the sheer amount of stimulusthat we're exposed to.
In the presentation I gaveyesterday, I had the privilege

(50:40):
to speak at Pine Castle Lodgeand the presentation I was
talking about the enteredapprentice degree and the tools
and how to effectively use allthese tools, and so there's a
part of the presentation where Italk about the specific numbers
, the numbers of how much media,and when I say media, media I'm

(51:04):
not being uh, I'm not attackingthe news or anything.
I'm saying like content, likedigital content.
Yeah, and we're at a point thatthere are groups in our society
that are spending 13 plus hoursa day consuming, and you'll be
in shock.
Can you guess what group is theone that I'm talking about

(51:26):
specifically that's spending?
Oh, it's definitely children.
It is the boomers.
Tell the boomer.
It's like chill, boomer, likethey are 13 plus hours consuming
me the boomers boomers so nexttime people wait the boomers
older than me, right?

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Yes, they are.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
So, but because the media, you just got Chris really
excited, given what he does forhis occupation, such ammunition
.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Now he's going to come back.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
That's it.
We're going to startadvertising newspapers again.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
As a representative of the generation X.
We are really far behind theamount of consumption that they
have, but it's stillembarrassing to admit how much
it is.
But the point is we're talkingabout live television.
We're looking at screen on yourcell phones, on the laptop.

(52:20):
It's all the amount of timethat we're spending looking at a
screen.
The more you're doing that, theless you have an opportunity to
just be quiet and just chilland just relax.
You know, just tell me this andI'm guessing.
But is it easier or harder foryou to sit down with a book to
read?

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Honestly, I've been doing it for the last six weeks,
nice, and I'm in a differentsituation than Matt, like I'm
disconnected a little bit.
So it's, I'm enjoying the hellout of it Nice.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
But are you having any trouble staying focused, or
you're, you're good.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
I've worked through some stuff, so I feel pretty
good about it, right?
Now yeah, but it wasn't easy inthe beginning.

Speaker 3 (53:04):
You're right, I've been doing it more recently, but
that's because in October Ihave to sit in the East for an
EA degree.
Oh boy, Good luck.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
I don't think active memorization is the same as
reading.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Yeah, normally, whenever it comes to books, I
typically do audiobooks becauseI drive so much.
My truck's a year old.
I got almost 30,000 miles on it.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
No, I actually look forward to it because there's
something about getting lost insomebody else's reality.
You know what I mean when Ipick up my book.
The last book I read was aboutI'm a nerd, so I'm reading about
quantum physics.
To me that's fascinating.
I want to get lost in thatworld.
I get lost in it.
I wish I could be a quantumphysicist, but I never went to

(53:47):
college, so it's not the starsfor me.
But that doesn't mean I can'tlike learn about the concepts,
right Like I can't practice it,but I can learn about it.
I love it.
Are you on Goodreads?

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Anybody who uses Goodreads that listens to this,
look me up on the winding stairsand give me your username.
Goodreads is where I keep acatalog of all the books I own,
all the books I want to read allthe books I've read, all the
books I'm reading, so I'm ableto quantify how much I'm reading

(54:21):
year by year.
I can tell you when I read what.
I can tell you it's calledGoodreads.
Goodreads, yeah, it's anapplication.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
I've never heard of it.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
It's a website and an application, okay.
So it even scans the UPC codeof your books so you can go in
your library, go book by book.
This is in my collection.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
This is my collection this is my collection and then
you can share that with otherpeople.
You can share that with otherpeople.
That's fascinating.
You can discover what yourfriends think about some books.
It's like I didn't know thatyou were into those books.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
Now I'm super curious about what it is.
Yeah, the last hard book that Iread, of course, outside of the
scriptures but the last hardbook that I read was actually
the Fourth Turning by.
I think his name's Neil Howell,but that's also a somewhat
religious kind of a book, right?
No, no, that's actually ahistory book so it's written by
two historians and I think I'vetold you about it before, but I

(55:18):
would suggest anybody read itbecause it helped my
cross-generational communicationbetter than anything I've ever
done in my life.
It's insane what it does.
It goes back to 1450 and ittracks four archetypes that just
repeat themselves every 20years or, sorry, every 80 years.
They just repeat themselvesover and over again, and it was
two historians that wrote it andso whenever you look at it and

(55:40):
you read about the archetypesfor example, the Gen X archetype
is known as the nomadicarchetype, more laid back, more
easygoing, just kind of go withthe flow type people.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
We're the forgotten generation.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
We have to find our own way.
Yeah, well, honestly, andthat's because you're between
two very headstrong archetypesyeah, you've got the boomers,
which are the propheticarchetype, and they are very
emotional, they're veryheadstrong, they're very take
charge, they were raised in ablooming and beautiful society.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
Those are the people running all governments in the
world right now.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
Yes, they are running governments, they're running
lodges, they're running churches, they're running everything
right now.
But then you also have mygeneration, which are the
millennials, which are known asthe heroic archetype, and the
heroic archetype and the heroicarchetype are the ones typically
you'll find.
The heroic archetype yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
I don't remember Hercules living with Zeus until
he was 30.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
But generally what happens and this is what we're
seeing is you'll see the heroicarchetype kind of do like an
aggressive takeover ofeverything.
Yeah, and the nomadic at thatpoint is starting to age out as
well.
They'll go along with whateverthe next guys are doing.
Okay, let's do it just.
It's a great book.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
I grew up like reading a lot of science fiction
, a lot of isaac asimov, frankherbert, um, you know everything
, star trek, like that's kind ofwhere I learned I didn't have a
father.
So that's kind of where Ilearned about how to be a good
person is from science fiction,because it always it was always
centered in some morality.
You know, it was always wildand crazy, but it was centered

(57:08):
around some kind of likesocietal thing and it was
teaching you like a moral lessonso my wife is extremely
religious and she showed me abook she got when she was a kid
and that's how they wrote thebible.
It's like for kids.
So everything's dumbed down,like not dumb, but simplified.
I guess you should say forchildren.
You got to go to their level,you got to go where they're at
and try to communicate with them.
Talking about communication.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Right I was going to show you here I don't know if I
share that with you so thatimage right there.
I tried to put some of theelements from the presentation.
So I have a stair going up intothe heavens, so it's almost

(57:54):
like Jacob's ladder, and thenyou have the rocket going up and
you have the rocket.
Okay, so you have the pillarsin our conversation today.
Obviously, this is what wetalked about today.
It was very little compared toall the content that's in the
presentation.
So if anybody's interested inhearing the full presentation,

(58:15):
with all the little secrets andEaster eggs that you can see on
this image, just reach out to meand we can coordinate how to
make it happen.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Well, interestingly, is that underneath the B column.
I won't say the word of the B,but is that a representation of
an atom?

Speaker 2 (58:41):
It is Okay.
So below and then as above, andthen you have on the sun in the
yeah.
In the opposite it could beinterpreted as the sun and if
you look, it's also a circumpunkso I just posted yesterday
about the circumpunk on our.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
I don't know if you saw it, I missed it, but I've
got a tattoo of a circumpunkbecause before I joined, way
before, like, I was fascinatedby symbology and um, I did
research on the circumpunk andit you can trace that back far,
far back and it's represented it.
It represents the symbol, goldrepresents the sun.

(59:21):
It was literally the hieroglyphfor Ra, which is the sun, god,
the name of Ra.
All throughout history, thecircumpunked has represented
light, sun, knowledge,information.
I love that.
And Pythagoras actually adoptedit.
He made a whole little culturearound that.
That's awesome.
And it represents the, thebeginning, right.

(59:44):
So he talks about how, from apoint to a line, from a line to
super feces, from a super fecesto a solid, is all represented
in this one symbol and has agroup of scientific followers
behind that, and we represent itin every lodge in the state of
florida.
Um, no one knows that it's acircumfunct, but it certainly is

(01:00:05):
a circumfunct with with twolines on the side.
And you talk about hermeticism.
That's like blatant hermeticism.
Right here we've got like one.
We've got the animals side andwe've got the educated side.
Um, in, you know, and you'vegot this man who's like I get
you're wrapping christiansymbols and that satisfies

(01:00:26):
certain people on a surfacelevel.
But the concepts both inchristianity and in masonry are
very synonymous back throughouthistory, to the beginning of
civilization.
This is what fascinates meabout masonry, because it uses
symbols to communicate ideas.
And we explain that symbol inthe inner apprentice lecture.
Right, we do.
We say this is this is whatfascinates me about masonry,
because it uses symbols tocommunicate ideas.
And we explain that symbol inthe inner apprentice lecture.
Right, we do.

(01:00:47):
We say this is what this allmeans.
And then you hear the fellowcraft lecture and we talk about
Pythagorean ideas of the pointand the line and the superficies
and the solid.
Nobody has any idea that that'swhat's being explained to them.
This is like all humanknowledge is contained within
freemasonry.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
But that's why the conversations that happen
outside of the lodge are soimportant because, like now,
we're just, you know, gatheredaround having this conversation,
geeking out on astronomy andphilosophy and hermeticism and
all that kind of stuff.
We are hashing out some of thethings that we were so swiftly

(01:01:26):
presented during the degree,yeah, so it's just a.
It's just a faint memory of asymbol, but that's fine, because
then we have theseconversations uh over uh and a
capri sun and a capri sun Ithink that was before we started

(01:01:46):
recording but one it was, but Ireferenced the capri sun, as in
my puerto rican accent okay.
So when I say capri song, I saycapri sun because I say from
puerto rico.

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
you know, actually, and and just hearing you talk
about this one and looking atsome of the symbology and
everything, I know a lot of whatthe profane have a problem with
.
Masonry is is our symbology andsome of the phrases like you've
referenced, as above, so belowa couple of times, and that
phrase has been hijacked andit's been hijacked by certain

(01:02:20):
groups.
Christianity let's be honest no, Christianity wants nothing to
do with that phrase.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
That's what I mean.
They turned it into somethingbad because it's actually now
mostly associated with theBaphomet Right.
The Baphomet is a symbolliterally pointing up and down,
and it means as above so below,and it's got a goat head and
it's half man and half human.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
What I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
It means as above, so below, and it's got a goat head
and it's half man and halfhuman and it first came into the
reference at the Templars, whenthe Templars were actually
being persecuted and they wereput under torture.
A lot of them confessed toworshiping the Baphomet right
and the Baphomet then became abad thing and Christians
generally look at the devil asthe baphomet.
So there's now a correlationbecause of generally because of

(01:03:08):
christians and not not you.
I'm talking about going back tothe 1300s now, yeah, I'm
talking about like thosecatholics, um, that assign that
to be this negative, evil thing,but it really is with ancient
wisdom, yeah yeah, and it's moreancient than we give it credit
for so and it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:28):
Well, no, what I was getting at is, I would love to
have one on and and and us do adeep dive on some of the
symbology and its origins andits roots, and so that way, if
you do have somebody, that islike okay, if you're the as
above, so below thing or um yeahjust some of the stuff they
harp on, you can literally sayno, actually this is the actual

(01:03:49):
origin of whatever that was andit twisted at this time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
It's just, it takes a little more thinking and a
little more listening, and mostpeople don't want to do either
of those things, and I what Ithought you were going to say,
chris, earlier, was that theissue that some people may have
with our fraternity was because,when you said the symbols, I
thought you were going to saybecause the fear that some of

(01:04:16):
the symbols present, you know,if you have symbols of mortality
, symbols of you, had a coffinon your picture exactly, and you
had skull and crossbones.
Yeah, and those are associatedwith death and that death is bad
, and yeah, and people forgetthat everybody's carrying around
a skull right behind their face.
Uh, so I just covered it withthe meats.

(01:04:40):
Uh, that's why it's not soscary.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
Well, and even still and, Chris, we can kind of hint
on this a little bit.
So I'm a York Rite Mason, andright before you go through
Commandery to become a KnightsTemplar, they place you in a
dark room, and so they havecertain items laid out on the
table in front of you, includinga Bible open to a passage.
It's essentially a chamber ofreflection, is what they're

(01:05:04):
putting you in, so and I'm notgoing to say everything that's
on the table because I don'twant people to freak out but, um
, but the the thing is is you'resupposed to draw a moral lesson
from that?
If a person did not want to usethe two brain cells they have
left, they could be like, oh no,that's bad and evil, and it's
like, no, it very beautiful.
Yeah, because what I took fromthat entire thing is the
finality of death, and what am Igoing to do with the time I

(01:05:25):
have here on this earth?

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Exactly, yeah, actually, but there has to be a
genuine desire to search forlight.
So sometimes people theycomplain it's like, oh my God,
there's so many people dying andlike why are we spending you
know less money and sendingrockets up to space and putting
these telescopes up there?
The James Webb telescope is aproject that was billions of

(01:05:47):
dollars in the making.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
And it involved like how many nations?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
And the time, the manpower, the capital, all of
that it involves.
But it is a genuine search forlight in the literal and
figurative sense.
We are trying to understand theuniverse better and we should
have that kind of approach.
When it comes to trying tounderstand, it's not like with

(01:06:14):
religion, for example.
I can understand how someonewould who was born in the united
states, of course, is going tobe exposed to a specific set of
religious dogma and history andthat becomes the religion that
they follow.
But someone who is born inIndia, it's very unlikely to be

(01:06:37):
exposed to the same story, thesame.
But you will find some threadsof truth within both of those
paths and you may have anindividual that's born in
Calcutta that goes through lifeexemplifying the teachings of
Jesus and lives a high morallife and eventually is

(01:07:03):
remembered as someone exemplary.
That is possible.
So sometimes we demonize theopposite and many times is
because we do not understandwhat it entails.
We don't understand theirsymbols, we don't understand the
story, uh, but that genuinedesire to know it's like like
why do they practice this?

(01:07:23):
What do they do here?
How do they feel about this?
What do they believe about this?
Other thing, that genuinesearch for light is what allows
you to then really focus and getto see what lies beyond the
noise, if you may good way tobring it all together there

(01:07:46):
Could not put a more perfect bowon the top of that package.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
Yeah, that was beautiful.
I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
That's cool.
Yeah, this is something that wecan, definitely A conversation
we can have over some N3ruffians.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
This message brought to you by Some cigars.
Okay, and he knows how to plugRight?

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
Well, Juan, look, I cannot thank you enough.
That phenomenal concept,everything, and the fact that
you're able to look at atelescope and derive a moral
lesson from a telescope, I meanthat takes a special switch.
And not only that, but it wasactually a very good concept.
I appreciate it.
It wasn't just like, oh,telescope, neat.
And then it was like, man, thisis a snooze fest.
No, like that's actually a lotto think about.

(01:08:28):
Thank, you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
I appreciate it.
Thank you so much for having me.
It would be my pleasure.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
Thank you so much.
Well, listen, got a lot to gohome and chew on at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Yeah, and we both lost power.
He's the only one that hasn't,so he's obviously no better.
We are one.
When we do these podcasts, wedon't know who's going to be
listening.
We know that they're probablyMasons.
They might not be Masons.
This podcast, in particular, ismeant for people that aren't
Masonry, that want to learnabout it.
So, with that in mind, is thereanything that you would want to

(01:09:02):
say to the listeners out there,as a man, as a Mason, as a dad,
as an artist?

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
Of course, I do appreciate spending the time
with us in this conversation.
One thing that's reallyimportant to me is creating
things that are going to be acatalyst for conversation.
I love to talk and through mypaintings, through my speeches,
through the content I create,what I'm attempting to do is to

(01:09:32):
have that little spark ofcuriosity so that we can engage
in a conversation.
Hopefully, one day we comeacross each other and we're able
to have a more personal, moreprofound conversation about
these things.
But it fulfills me to hear thatyou know what I am creating,
what I'm putting out into theworld, is starting some

(01:09:53):
conversations.
So if you found any of thisvaluable, I would love for you
to follow the work that I do, ifyou're a Mason, and where can
they do that?

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
again.
Where can they find your art?
Where can they follow you?

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
So if they're interested in Freemasonry and my
Masonic art, they can go to thewinding stairscom.
I started the winding stairs in2012 as an effort of self
introspection and as an outletfor me to teach, to me, for me
to learn and teach, and I'vebeen fortunate to connect with a

(01:10:28):
lot of people and you can seethe art, you can see the content
about Freemasonry there.
But I have been a professionalartist for 20 years this year
and my art is not limited toFreemasonry.
I am a surrealist.
I do oil paintings, sell themthrough galleries to collectors,
and you can see my collectionby going to JuanSepulvedacom.

(01:10:52):
Juansepulvedacom is where youcan find a little insight into
what got me here.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
We will put links in this podcast to the Winding
Stairs and to Juan Sepulveda.
That's how it is, sepulveda,and you know, a Capri Sun on us.
We'll have it delivered to you,one with a three-rucking cigar.
I dare you to try both at thesame time.
Challenge accepted.
Actually you are a Masonicspeaker, so if people want to

(01:11:24):
book you for a Master MasonAssociation, a lodge education,
that's something you're open todoing.
Correct?
Yeah, I do them often.
How can they?

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
reach out to you for that.
If you can reach out to methrough any of those websites,
the contact form in there goesto the same bucket, basically.
So just reach out to me thereat juansimplemailcom or
thewindingstairscom, and justfill out the contact form and
we'll take it from there.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
Excellent.
Thank you, brother.
Thank you for coming on theshow and sharing time with us
and talking about this topic.
I'm so happy that we got you tocome on and do it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
Thank you so much for the invitation, matt.
It was a pleasure meeting youand spending some time with you.
Brother, absolutely, you're nottoo far, so I'll see you soon.
Mason, you're a phenomenal guy.
You're not too far, so I'll seeyou sooner than later.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
For sure.
He's doing some interestingthings at Turkey Creek.
So give him a couple yearsbefore you go out and see his
lodge.
He'd be embarrassed if he cametoday.
I know A couple of years ofpast masters.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
They'll have it straight, oh no that's not
what's going to happen, chris.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
I'm the level podcast .

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
Out.