Follow Up: The Masonic Career of Host Matt Stone

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
What we have decided is what to do with the time that
has given to us.
You've reached the internet'shome for all things masonry.
Join on the level podcast as weplumb the depths of our ancient
craft and try to unlock themysteries, dispel the fallacies
and utilize the teachings ofFreemasonry to unlock the

(00:23):
greatness within each of us.
I have you.
Now let's go.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hello, we are back again, my brother.
Well, hello there.
Hey, buddy, how are you doing?

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Mr Matt.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Stone, I'm doing great.
It's almost like we didn't justdo an hour and a half podcast
together and doing another oneright behind it.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
I like that.
You've cleaned and washed yourshirt and you decided to wear it
again.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
As.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
I have.
I yes, we're very responsible.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yep and brothers, this is a.
I love this shirt.
I mean, the money for that thatwas raised from making these
shirts actually went to charity,so I didn't care at all.
I just love the shirt.
I mean, it's a.
It's a great inside joke for alot of people and like two
people are going to get pissedoff about it.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
But yeah them, yeah.
Well, those people are alwaysupset.
Let's be honest.
Yeah for sure, give themsomething to chew on.
Well, we are here recording anew episode of On the Level
Podcast where we want to talkabout the continuation of our
host, brother Matt Stone'sMasonic, his continuing Masonic

(01:42):
journey.
We did one of the last podcaststhat we put out before.
All the mess that I got us intowas you and your journey so far
in Freemasonry, and I feel likethis Grand Lodge is like
chapter two, so I thought wecould maybe start to cover
chapter two in the book of Matt.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
For those brothers who haven't seen the episodes
and haven't been following thisjourney of mine, first of all,
go watch the episodes.
What are you doing, seriously?
You've got the time, just gowatch them.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
You have plenty of time.
Listen to it on a podcast whileyou're driving in the car, or
if you're watching on YouTube,you can hit the like button or
hit the bell or subscribe so youcan get notified every time
that we do a new podcast.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Exactly so either way , yeah, so it's been a very
interesting journey so far.
For those of you who don't know, I've only been a master mason
for about 18 months.
I first started talking toChris when I was a fellow craft
of of.
Hey, I've got some issues goingon at my lodge, turkey creek
number 248.
Uh, rest in peace.
So, um, and I'm just kind ofgiving you guys the elevator

(02:51):
pitch, um, but either way, itwas, got into that lodge, got a
reprimand by the newly installedgrandmaster, june of last year.
Yeah, so sad, so sad.
So, uh, got a reprimand, wentthrough a lodge rebuild, charter
pool trial where I testified onboth sides of the trial.
And then I go to a new lodge,lakeland Lodge 91.

(03:14):
And my worshipful master getspulled by edict by the exact
same grandmaster that pulled mycharter.
So the same one that brought meup on charges.
That would be one and the samemost worshipful.
Yeah, it was a.
It was a very interestingmasonic year.
Uh, to to be totallytransparent about it, uh, it was

(03:34):
difficult.
In this year I have memorized,um, all the the ritual work and
opening, uh, opening, closing inall three degrees.
I can now sit in any chair andI can do any of them from memory
, except for Chaplin, chaplin's,the only one I haven't
memorized yet.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, that's a whole different book, the brown card
it has the blue book.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, that was my Masonic year, the first Grand
Communication.
We had a couple of hot buttonitems on the agenda and so I
only had really two, potentiallythree, things that I wanted to
speak on.
The third thing actually nevercame up because it's not through
the process yet, so there'snothing to speak on.
It wasn't even brought up ormentioned.

(04:15):
So either way, yeah, firstgrand communication, I'm not
gonna lie to you brothers, goinginto it, I was done with
masonry.
I was totally done with masonry, cause it's like, look, if this
is what masonry is and it's,you know, it's this heavy on
politics and all this otherstuff.
I don't want anything to dowith it.
You know I'm good.
I've got other things that Icould do, spend my time on.

(04:36):
I could go make money, right,yeah, so I could spend time with
my wife and kid, who I spend alot of time away from them doing
Masonic stuff.
I was done going to our grandcommunication.
I was done and sat through yourappeals.
So I did not go on a fishingtrip.
I had to go down to the Keys totake care of some stuff with

(04:56):
our rentals down there, droveback, sat through your appeal.
I was dog tired.
I'm not going to lie about it,I was tired.
It was interesting.
I'm of the opinion that wheneveryou go through a trial in
masonry and again, I'm still new, so some of you people that
have been at for 30, 40, 50years you could think that I'm
full of garbage right now, andthat's perfectly fine.
You're not going to offend meby saying so, but going into it

(05:18):
I was of the mindset.
I think a trial or an appealshould be trying to achieve
harmony, not to dole outdiscipline.
And that's kind of what I sawwith the trials and I saw that
with the appeal is it was veryheavy handed, it was very
aggressive.
And I'm sitting there lookingat this and I'm like look, don't
we learn in our enteredapprentice degree and don't we

(05:39):
learn throughout our catechismsthat the goal should be if you
see a distressed worthy brotheror you see a brother who's down
on his luck or whatever the casemight be, help him.
Help him, don't just you know,if he's down, don't kick him
while he's down.
That doesn't make sense, right?
That's when he needs you themost.
Yeah and so dress you know wetalk about.

(06:00):
You know help, aid and assistyou know we talk about in the
entered apprentice degree of um,you know.
Do you have anything ofintrinsic value?
I mean, we talk about thesethings and everybody knows what
I'm talking about whenever I saythose things and I didn't see
any of that, you know.
Just kind of like with thetrial.
My experience with the trial isthe two brothers that were
there were factually correct inwhat they said but neither one
of them handled it properly.

(06:21):
You know.
But, only one of them wound upgetting suspended, correct.
So either way, going into grandcommunication, I was done Sat
through your appeals.
I thought it was veryaggressive, it was very
heavy-handed.
Your counsel did a phenomenaljob at representing you.
I mean, I cannot speak highlyenough about Most Worshipful
Glenn Bishop and RightWorshipful Joe Fladys Jr.

(06:42):
I can't either Phenomenalbrothers, and you packed the
salon, which was interesting.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
I wasn't sure if they were there to support me or
just to see the train wreck.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
I think there's probably a little bit of column
A, a little bit of column B,probably.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, I mean, I know the guys from my district and
you guys and the ruffians werethere to support me.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
And so are some of the past grandmas, yeah, yeah,
and so, uh, so, either way, uh,we go, we sit through the appeal
.
You get a five-year definitesuspension.
Yeah, and I'm like, dude, youjust killed this guy's masonic
journey and career like you justmurdered it.
There's no way he's coming backafter this, no way, um, and
even still, uh, brother seancooney, he was ready to walk
away at that point.
He was ready to walk away atthat point, I was ready to walk
away at that point.
So then you have a seniorwarden.
I think Cooney's a senior warden.
Now you have a senior wardenwho's ready to walk away and a

(07:34):
committeeman, a districtcommitteeman and he's a
millennial.
He's younger, he's in his 30sand he's ready to walk away.
You've got me who.
I'm busting my tail, trying todo everything I can for the
craft.
I've been catechism instructor,I've been a lodge mentor.
We're trying to build Lakeland91 up to a point to where it's
going to be a beacon in PolkCounty, and I was ready to walk

(07:56):
away.
And you know, similarly, ourworshipful master that got
pulled by Edict.
He was ready to walk away.
It was shooing off the youngerbrothers in the craft.
It was literally running themoff in droves.
So we go into grandcommunication.
Uh, that happens, of course.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
You know we have the freedom party the next day,
which was stifled, I think isthe proper, the proper way to
say well yeah, I mean that's whyCooney was so upset, you know,
because there were, there wereforces actively trying to hurt
people and things.
You know we had, we had a booth, the Grand Lodge had cash to

(08:35):
check, we ordered product whichwe paid tariffs on to get ready
for said event.
And then it's like a weekbefore we get the word yeah,
we're gonna pull that, you'renot allowed to come yeah, yeah,
and that was disheartening tohim.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
I know because he saw how anti the opposite of
freemasonry that kind ofbehavior was right and even
still, I really want to hit onthis because this is kind of
what I experienced through thegrand communication and I
experienced I didn't, I had aabout it, but I didn't see it
until the grand communicationand then, once I saw it, I was
like, oh, that's what this is,and it almost seems like there's

(09:14):
two different types ofFreemasonry in Florida.
And I'm saying types becausethese two and I thought about
this a lot since then is thereis the fraternal side of it and
the brother side of it, and thatwas, you know, you and I
sitting around a table, you know, having a scotch after your
appeal.
That's what that was.
It was hanging out with thebrothers out by the pool.

(09:35):
It was, you know, all of thatstuff laughing and getting to
know these brothers from acrossthe state that you all took the
same obligation at our sacredaltar.
We all took the same obligation.
And to have those brothers oflike minds there have
conversations, that was fun,that was fraternal, that was
brotherhood.

(09:56):
But then you also have thecorporate side of freemasonry,
and the corporate side offreemasonry is more about
legalism, it's more aboutdiscipline and structure.
And what does the digest say?
And what does this comma meanin this sentence, and it's ugh,
I'm done with it, man.
The bureaucracy of it all.
Yeah, and here's the funnything about it Whenever you have

(10:16):
those two different camps inFreemasonry, you're going to
have the fraternal side of it isgoing to look at the legalistic
side of it and say that's notFreemasonry.
You're going to have thelegalistic side of it look at
the fraternal side of it and saythat's not Freemasonry.
So it's like, guys, we've gotto find a happy medium between
these two.
We have got to have that, and Ithink we're probably going to

(10:37):
have some legislation coming outnext year that is going to kind
of lead it in that direction.
I'm helping with that to kindof marry these two sides of
Freemasonry together, because ifwe don't, and we keep having
this split I think it was mostworshipful Foster who said it
it's almost like in Masonrywe're divided as if it's
political lines.
You know it's insane.
You know the political divisionthat we have in this country.

(10:59):
Well, we also have inFreemasonry here in the state of
Florida, freemasonry here inthe state of Florida, and so
we've got to find a way to cometogether and I'm being very open
and transparent about that thatwe've got to find a way for the
legalistic and the fraternal toactually come together.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
And I think that it seems like there's a movement
happening right now that you'rea part of, of the younger
generation trying to get engagedand trying to submit some
legislation that can move us inthat direction, maybe removing
some of the bad parts ofbureaucracy and enhancing some
of the interrelations there.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, because at the end of the day, this is an
optional fraternity.
We all pay to be here, everysingle one of us.
We pay to be here in thisfraternity and, at the end of
the day, what separates masonryfrom rotary, from elks from the
critter lodges, all this otherstuff?
And there should be somethingthat sets us aside.
But if we're going to be soheavy handed on the legalistic

(11:58):
side of it, then it's not goingto be that.
It's not going to be what itshould be and what it was
intended to be.
Likewise, if we lean tooheavily on the fraternal side of
it, we lose what makes usmasons.
If people don't do ritual anddegree work properly, if you
don't run your lodge in a propermanner, it's going to go
sideways.
So both are needed.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
We've got to find a way to have both sit at the
table, if you get into aleadership position in the
fraternity, then you representFreemasonry to a lot of people
that look up to you and youreally are serving in that
position.
This is a fraternity right, nota corporation.
So most of us are getting paid.
I know some people do get paidfor certain roles, but I oppose

(12:38):
that.
Actually, I think if you wantto volunteer for something, you
should be volunteering.
Agreed, some people get paid.
That's the decisions that theymade.
I'll live with that, um.
But you know, each and every oneof us represents the fraternity
to anyone that knows wheremason out in the world, right,
and you're probably the onlyexposure they're going to get to
free masonry.

(12:59):
So the way you act and deportyourself in public is really
important.
We always talk about how thelodge room is like training
wheels for life.
We learn how to havedisagreements and not yell at
each other in the lodge room,how to listen when somebody else
is speaking and not speak overthem, and show respect to the

(13:22):
people that we disagree with.
We learn all these skills inthe lodge room.
The the next step is to take itout into your life and be that
way with your coworkers and yourboss and your employees and
your neighbors Like.
Have those disagreements withrespect and make sure the person
knows that you still respectthem even though you disagree
with them.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
And honestly that was one of the candidates for the
Grand South was a brother namedWright Wful.
John dragneff, uh, he came tolakeland lodge and he spoke at
our lodge.
I had actually never met ortalked to rob astell uh right,
worshipful astell before that.
Um, I like him.
Yeah, he seems like a decentguy.
Um had some great conversationswith him, but, um, grand junior

(14:03):
warden, yep, he is.
He is our newly installedJunior Grand Warden.
Grand Junior Warden, I don'tknow how these things go.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
See, I don't get the titles right, yeah titles suck.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
So either way, yeah, it was interesting and that's
one thing that he talked aboutWright Worshful Dragnev talked
about is that he wanted to bringin Jocko Willink, dan Crenshaw
and, uh, john maxwell, and itwas to actually provide and
build training, uh, for thelodge, so it wouldn't be like
mlt or master mason one, two,three, which those things that

(14:35):
you learn in those courses aremeant to be internal lessons and
and how to navigate the digestand right.
You know how to run a lodge andyou know make sure that you
take out an ad in the paper.
Gosh, it needs to be updated,so bad.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yeah it definitely does.
Or notify your local news thatyou're doing that.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah, notify your local news that you're doing yet
another fish fry.
I'm so over fish fries, man.
Everybody talks to them as ifit's the holy grail of masonry.
I am so over those.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
We have other ways of raising money.
We're going to bring the futurepodcasts that don't involve
taking a penny from a mason, sostay tuned.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
So Wright, worshful Dragnev talked about that of
forming training that wasactually showing you how to be a
leader.
Now I've read Jocko Willink'sbook Extreme Ownership, and he's
got a second one which isDichotomy of Leadership, and I
looked over because it's on mybookshelf in my office right
over here.
Dichotomy of Leadership, andthose are lessons that you can

(15:36):
take out into the world and youcan apply to your house, your
business, you can apply themwithin masonry, and I thought
that was brilliant.
I'm like, look, the threesymbolic degrees that we go
through and all the all the oldteachings that we go through are
meant to make you a better manoutside of the craft.
The current mandatory educationthat is needed is to make you
better inside the craft.
Now it desperately needsupdating.

(15:58):
It really does need updating.
But he was proposing here's aleadership training that you can
take out into the world, whichI loved and I was like, look,
that is awesome.
I think that is desperatelyneeded.
I hope he runs again next yearfor the Grand Sal.
I really truly do.
This is the very worshipfulJohn Dragniff you're talking
about.
Yes, yes, dragniff was awesomewhenever he came and spoke to us

(16:19):
.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, interesting idea and I like that.
It's something positive new forthe craft.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah, yeah.
And not only that, but it helpsmen be better versions of
themselves, because, again, it'slessons that you can apply
outside of the lodge.
So I thought that was huge.
So we go through your trial, orsorry, your appeal.
We have the party, you know,the freedom party which was
again was hilarious.
You know.
There was a lot of fun thatcame out of that, to be honest

(16:46):
with you, and actually it's thefirst time I got to meet you.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, the people, I think people that saw us meeting
for the first time, they werekind of like what?

Speaker 2 (16:55):
It's like, meanwhile, chris and I have been talking
for two years, you know, almosttwo years at this point.
We've been, you know, friends,and you know having fun and
everything, and and you know,now we finally meet each other
and, and you know, I advised youearly on and then you started
advising me and we, uh, yeah, wegot pretty close, yeah, and and
honestly, I've never met inperson, so I'm standing next to
him and I don't know how tallyou are, but he's a sarcastic

(17:18):
guy and he's like oh, I thoughtyou'd be taller, yeah because
you're like what, six, three,four or something like that, six
, two, six, three and I'm five,11, on a good day it's like I'm
wearing like the Ron DeSantisheel boots, you know to kind of
like get me up a little bittaller.
You know what I'm talking aboutthat's brotherhood, nice that.

(17:40):
So, either way, we go into thefirst day, the first official
day, which would be Monday, andgosh, the introductions took
forever.
It took so long.
And it's like I was happy tosee people from the other grand
jurisdictions there.
You know the Prince Hallbrothers.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Bahamas always come yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
You know so, and actually what I was told is that
there were less grandjurisdictions there this year
than what there has been inprevious years, really, because
I think there was five.
Maybe I say with a questionmark, I'm probably wrong on that
you spend nearly half yourfirst day on introductions.
Oh yeah, for sure.
It took forever.
Golly, it took forever.

(18:19):
And keep in mind I was drivingback and forth.
I didn't stay in Orlando forthat.
I live in Plant City, which isabout an hour away, so I was
driving back and forth everysingle day.
Yeah, it was like, yeah,traffic was terrible.
Of course, orlando is alwaysunder construction and it
forever will be.
Until the end of time it willalways be under construction and

(18:40):
I-4 is still the livingpurgatory of Florida.
So it is terrible.
I hate i4.
Oh yeah, for sure.
So we go into the first day.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Um, yeah, all right for the first day pretty
uneventful the first day,usually like not a lot happens
it.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Well, no, um, there was something that happened that
was eventful, and the eventfulwas, uh, that most worshipful,
aladro, got up and gave apresentation on dispelling
rumors.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Oh, I heard that they were going around the whole
state doing that presentation.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
And here's the thing I've got to give.
I'm going to go ahead and callthem out on it too.
Most Worshipful Eladro and MostWorshipful Lynn are phenomenal
public speakers.
They are so good.
I don't agree on a couple ofthings that have happened, but
they are very gifted speakers.
They are so good.
I don't agree on a couple ofthings that have happened, but
they are very gifted speakers.
I mean, I sat there and watchedMost Worshipful Aladro disarm

(19:32):
that entire crowd, you know,with a couple of jokes, and it
was good.
I mean, he actually did anincredibly good job speaking.
Same thing with Most WorshipfulLynn.
You know he kept making thejokes about selling hot dogs,
but he did a great job atcommunicating his message.
So from a speaker perspective,they were really, really good.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah, I mean, if they've been in that world for
as long as they have.
I think Most Worseful Lin'sbeen in the Grand Line for what
like 17, 18 years.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
Oh, that's funny.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, he's been there a while.
I know Most Worseful Aladro.
He's been there a while.
I know most worst for aladro.
He's been in over 10 um 150 forhim I think yeah, so I mean
they did a great job.
Speaking um again I I I havedifferent points where I
disagree with them on okay.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
so you're not advocating that the presentation
was good, but you're justsaying they did a good job
presenting it.
Correct, okay.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah that, that that's a fair statement.
I mean I'm not saying that Iagree with the presentations
that were given, um, butwhenever it comes to how they
spoke, they are very good orders.
I will, I will give them thatcredit for credits too.
Yeah, of course, I mean, I'mnot, I'm not opposed to doing
that.
So, um, yeah, I got to meet theentire grand line.
I mean, I'm not opposed todoing that.
So, yeah, I got to meet theentire Grand Line.
I got to meet the ladies thatwork in the office up there at

(20:50):
the Grand Lodge.
You know, right, worst fool,rick Windling took me around and
introduced me to everybody,which I thought was very nice
and generous of him.
So he's like, hey, man, let meintroduce you to everyone.
I'm like I'd rather not.
Because you know, and here'sthe thing, like y'all guys got

(21:14):
to understand, like the older Iget, the more of an introvert I
become, and I was not this wayas a kid.
When I was a kid like I think Iwas like 13, 14 years old he
was the life of the party.
And so there's this table ofvery attractive girls that are
close to my age, maybe a littlebit older, and so my dad looks
at me and he goes hey, matt.
And I was like, yeah, he goes,go have dinner with those girls,
huh.

(21:35):
And he's like, yeah, he's likeyou see that table of girls over
there.
I'm like, yeah, he's like Gohave dinner with them, okay,
okay.
So I kid you not.
I stand up here.
I am like 14 years old,something like that, like 14, 15
.
I stand up, I walk over to thistable full of girls, strike up
a conversation.
I end up having dinner withthem to the point where my mom
was like Matt, you've got tocome back to the table.
And dad's like let him go, he'sfine, he's on fire, he's, he's

(21:58):
on it, he's running it.
So the older I get, the moreintroverted I become.
And it's like, you know, mysocial battery just drains fast,
you know.
So he's like let me introduceyou to everybody.
I'm like bro, I have been on,and a lot of you younger people
know what I'm talking aboutWhenever I say that.
I have been on for hours atthis point and I just want to go
sit in a corner.
Like that's all I want to do.
Sit in a corner, yeah, so thathappens.

(22:25):
First day rolls around, mostWorshipful, aladra gives his
presentation.
We have elections and thereally cool thing about the
elections that I thought wassuper interesting and super neat
is that the candidates who lostmade a motion for their votes
to go to the one, the person whowon, so that way it would be a
unanimous vote, and you don'tsee that in politics.
You don't see that anywhereelse that I've seen vote and you

(22:46):
don't see that in politics.
You don't see that anywhereelse that I've seen.
Uh, certainly anywhere elsethat I've seen.
I thought that was actuallyvery wholesome and a sign of
unity.
I actually really enjoyed thatwhich we need more of a little
bit more.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Come on, let's keep it going.
Yeah, so, first day, what wasthe most eventful thing that
happened that you can speakabout at the actual grand
communication?

Speaker 2 (23:06):
First day actually wasn't terribly eventful.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
People were like walking out.
Was that a fair?
That was the second day.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
Okay, it wasn't the first day.
Yeah, second day, peoplestarted to walk out, which was
interesting, so what do you dothat night?

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Oh, you go home, right, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
You don't hang out.
No, no, I took my happy rearend home.
I was done, I was checked out.
I was like all right, I've seenall the vendors, you know, and
the vendors there actually hadsome pretty cool stuff.
Yeah, there's one shirt that Ireally, really liked and I wish

(23:43):
I really liked that shirt and ofcourse, you know, I got this
shirt as well.
Who is James Mason?
Who is James Mason we?

Speaker 1 (23:49):
will never know.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
The mystery continues Now.
Something interesting that didhappen and this is not Masonic
at all, but somethinginteresting that did happen is
that first day.
This was the most eventfulthing that happened to me the
entire first day.
On Monday, okay Is a bunch ofus guys from our district.
We decided to go down the roadto Miller, miller's ale house,
which was what?
Three, four blocks, somethinglike that.
It wasn't a very long walk asI'm walking, cause I had to go

(24:14):
put some stuff up, so I was likehey, you guys go ahead and I'll
catch up to you.
Right, as I'm walking, I hearfootsteps behind me and I'm like
okay, so I, I, I'm weird.
I know y'all guys don't have totell me, I know that I am and I
turn, I blade my body and Ilook to my left and I see a
gentleman walking behind me.

(24:35):
Um, he's clearly looks likehe's.
He doesn't have a house.
Um, he's clearly homeless andhe's carrying a black bag and
I'm like like a trash bag, uh,like a, like a grocery bag, a,
completely black grocery bag.
And I'm like, okay, but as I'mlooking left cause I'm keeping
an eye on him Right and I dothis with everybody, it wasn't,

(24:56):
I wasn't profiling, I'm justlike this naturally it doesn't
matter who's behind me, it couldbe Nana, I don't care, could be
Nana, I don't care and I lookand then he drifts, he starts
walking the other direction toget out of my sight.
Ok, now y'all guys know I'minto combatives and you know
training and martial arts andall this other stuff, right,
security, medical training, likethat's.

(25:18):
That's kind of my hobby that Ilike to do.
So I decide I'm like, all right, that's weird, weird.
So I look to my right and he'sstill walking behind me but he
does the exact same thing, wherehe goes out of my, my line of
vision again, and I'm just like,oh okay, that's suspicious,
it's suspicious.
I'm not attributing motive oraccusing anything, you're just
making an observation.

(25:39):
This is shady.
So I speed up my pace, and youknow I don't.
I don't have a slow pacewhenever I walk.
You know he was shorter than Iam.
I speed up my pace and you knowI don't.
I don't have a slow pacewhenever I walk.
You know he was shorter than Iam, I speed up my pace and as
I'm increasing my pace, I hearhim increasing his.
I'm like, oh, okay, so nowthese.
These are three data pointsthat have happened where this is
weird, okay.

(26:00):
So I look in the reflection of aof a window of a building that
I walked up and it's right bythat wonder works that house
that's upside down, or buildingit's upside down, yeah.
So I look in the reflection ofthe window and I see that he's
closing the distance between meand him and I was like, okay, so
I stop at the next roadintersection.
I put my back against the wall.
I've got my phone in my lefthand because my gun is on my
right hip, so it's like allright if things get squirrely.

(26:23):
You're like, yeah, so you know,and here's the thing, I pay
money to have insurance forlawyers protect me, and I'd
rather there be one story to betold.
I'm sorry, it's just the waythat I think.
So anyway, I put my back againstthe wall, got my phone in my
left hand and I'm acting likeI'm looking for where this place
is, that I'm going, and I lookand he walks across the street.

(26:43):
So, so he walks directly awayfrom me because again, I got my
back against a wall.
Now, right, he walks across thestreet and is walking in the
median and I let him get acouple of paces in front of me
and then I start walking moreslowly.
He decreases his speed and thengets back behind me again.
Okay, all right, fine, I goover to Miller's Alehouse right,

(27:04):
I'm just kind of keeping an eyeon him.
I go over to miller's ale house, I turn to walk into miller's,
he turns to walk down the sameroad that I'm walking down and
it's just like, okay, I'mclearly being stalked right now,
very clearly, sadly not thefirst time I've been stalked
this year, if you catch my drift.
So no, this is different, yeah,different one, yeah the other
one was actually trump this guy.

(27:26):
You can turn around and be likewhat's going on, man well, at
the end of the day I walked intomiller's, he walked past it and
it's so funny.
So we have a, a brother at ourlodge.
I'm not going to mention hisname because he doesn't want to
be named um, but he's a armyveteran um from around about the
vietnam era um.
And so he's a very, veryaggressive dude.

(27:47):
But once you gain his respect,he is the nicest guy.
He will do anything in theworld for you.
So I walk in and I explain thesituation to the brothers at the
table and I was like, yeah, man, this dude was just following
me.
He did this weird thing.
All this other stuff, this guyand he's super loud.
He doesn't have control of hisvolume.
He's like like where's the sonof a bitch at?

(28:13):
I started laughing.
He's like let's go out there,let's go get him.
And I was like bro, like couldyou imagine if the story that
came out of the grand lodge orthe grand communication is that
a couple of masons went and beatup a homeless guy?
Could you imagine the story?
He was just following the smell.
Yeah, oh, dude, it washilarious.
So that was the most eventfulthing that happened on Monday.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
That's awfully strange, but it's good he just
kept going and didn't pursue it.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah, so that was Monday.
Again, I'm driving back andforth, I'm getting up at 5 am to
be there on time, uh, and tomiss all the traffic.
So I get home that night, um,next day rolls around and again,
so we're sorry.
Tuesday now.
Yeah, we're on tuesday now andtuesday is where are where the
reports?
Are, you know, going to bevoted on?

(28:57):
Um, your report came up and andI'm not gonna lie to you, man,
we go through the elections andit's like, okay, you know, dog
and pony show.
A lot of the brothers werecalling it a dog and pony show
and I get it.
That's politics, right wasinteresting to me because most

(29:22):
worshipful glen bishop now yourcase got brought up and most
worshipful glen bishop got upand spoke and when that man
spoke first off, it's, thisman's got this like booming and
commanding presence.
I mean, he's, the guy's asavage.
I absolutely love the guy wesaid on the last podcast he's
like the living thor, like weneed to get him a mule near to
carry around.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
We should chip in and get him a, get him hammer.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, I'm in, I'm in, let's go.
So he gets up and speak andthat's when I saw the tide turn,
that's whenever I saw, you know, kind of like the mindset of
everything that's going on.
It really started to shift atthat point.
So your vote came up and Ithink it was almost unanimous to
reject the report, whichhonestly made me very hopeful

(30:04):
because you had said, after yourappeal trial, you had said my
fate is now in the hands of thebrothers and the brothers had
your back, which I thought wasawesome.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
It was great.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Very surprising, yeah , so that was that.
Again, I can't.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
I think what it was, man.
I think they saw Themselves inUs, like wow, that could have
been me.
It could have been me that justmaybe I said something that
made someone mad and you getwrapped up in it, and I think
that's why they reacted, becausethey saw themselves in us.
They were like wow, and theystopped it.

(30:45):
And now they know they have thepower.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, and honestly that was super interesting to
see and it's like, okay, thebrothers got it.
Sweet, that's awesome.
And then there was a motion onthe floor to have you retried
and again that one was almostunanimous with the exception of
five people, and I know one ofthem personally.
I'll give it to you.
I don't care, I'm sure I cangive you their names.

(31:12):
Yeah, really, there were fivepeople that voted against that.
Out of a room of 700 voters1500 Masons Only five were
against the idea of retrying youand I was like cool All right.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Good to be on the right side of history sometimes.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Right, and so that's where I was like oh, this is,
this is fascinating.
You know, this is reallysomething special, that the
brothers actually had your back.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
It's for me, but other trials were also returned,
right.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, a lot of them were.
A lot of them were returned andI don't know the brother's name
.
You're going to have to help mewith this.
He's the Worshipful Master downin the Keys, mock, yeah, mock.
His son, mock Jr Again, I don'tknow his first name.
Rock Jr Again, I don't know hisfirst name.
I apologize, but that dude is arock star.
Oh, we got to keep an eye onhim.

(31:58):
He's great.
You want to talk about anintelligent brother, can think
on his feet, can present himselfwell and articulate.
That guy was awesome.
Okay, he spoke on behalf of hisfather.
Yep, and again, that one wasoverturned and that one was
overturned.
The one thing that was kind ofannoying is, anytime a situation
was brought up or that we hadto vote or speak on something is

(32:18):
that you can only have three,four and three against.
There was a motion on the floorto allow it to be unlimited, so
that way all the brothers couldbe heard.
Oh, wow, and it didn't even goto vote.
It was just no, we're not doingthat.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
So yeah, grant the grand line said no.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah, the grand line said no, and so it's like okay,
then we're going to keep doingthree four, three against.
Now the one thing that was kindof annoying and a little
frustrating is you would havebrothers who would get up and
they would speak either for oragainst, and so you know, the
grandmaster would say are youfor or against?
Well, they'd be like I'magainst it.
Okay, present your.
Okay, present your case.
Well, I just have a questionabout the definition of this and

(32:56):
so what that did.
Is it really limited theability to be able to speak on
certain items?
Because you only got six slotsboth ways and nobody else was
really allowed to speak.
So maybe we could change thatin the future to let the
brothers be heard.
Or hey, I have a clarificationquestion and instead of it being
, are you for or against?

(33:17):
Answer the clarificationquestion and then they can say
if they're for or against.
Right, I think that wouldprobably be a better way to
handle it.
But I also see the logic in.
You only have a fixed amount oftime.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Grand Lodge is only three days, you've got to get
everything done in those threedays, but they take their time
right.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
the grand line takes more than every other brother
gets to speak their piece yeah,and honestly, that that's what
happened with, uh, the situationabout turkey creek, um, to say
that, um, trying to think of away to word this or I won't get
in trouble To say that it was aspirited conversation between

(34:03):
Most Worshipful Cowart andmyself is an understatement.
It was a very intenseconversation.
I should call it a debate.
It was a debate.
And now keep in mind and I'mstill.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Is he on the floor or is he up on the dais thing?
He's sitting in the Grand Eastthing.
He's sitting in the grand east.
He's sitting in the grand eastand you're down on the floor.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
So we're going toe-to-toe.
We're going toe-to-toe whileI'm standing, while I'm standing
at a microphone which they didshut off on me.
Um, they shut it off while youwere speaking, yeah, yeah, so it
was hilarious too.
Um, you know, he, I think,spoke for probably 10-, 15
minutes on just how bad TurkeyCreek was, and I'm sitting there
listening to it and I'm likeman, some of these data points

(34:40):
are false, they're justincorrect and I don't know.
Again, I'm not mad at the man.
I want to be very clear aboutthis.
I'm not mad at the man, but theaction as the grandmaster, I
disagree with yeah Right,disagree with yeah Right, and
it's again.
It's not that I'm mad, but youknow, let's, if we, if we would

(35:01):
have had the opportunity, or ifwe would have been, if we could
have sat down and talked myselfand the grandmaster here's
what's going on at Turkey Creek.
Here's what I want to achieve.
Here's this information.
Here's that information.
Can I make this work, yes or no?
I think we could have made itwork without it blowing up into
what it blew up into.
Most definitely, you could have, yeah, but the problem is I was
never given that opportunity.
You know, anytime I tried tospeak to the grandmaster.

(35:23):
It was like high by and thengoing right.
So it's like, okay, if, ifthat's the way the man conducts
himself, I'm not mad at it.
Everybody's got their own littlequirks.
As we're talking about TurkeyCreek again, he's putting out
some data points that areincorrect.
For example, one of the onesthat he said that we only had
three people at our lodge, twoor three people at our lodge

(35:44):
that had completed Master Mason1, 2, 3 in MLT, and I knew that
to be factually incorrectbecause I was one of the ones
that had it done and I was notcounted amongst those people.
So I knew that to be incorrectand I stood up and I said, most
worshipful, with respect, thatis not accurate.
There were actually ninebrothers and we were hosting you
know was it Master Mason one,two, three.

(36:05):
We were hosting that at TurkeyCreek.
So you know, either way it's.
You know I had had threeminutes to present my case and,
like I said, they shut off themicrophone on me.
He made another comment fromthe Grand East that was
condemning Turkey Creek aboutsomething, and I spoke into the
microphone and I said, may Irespond?
And I noticed that mymicrophone had been shut off.
So again I probably get myselfinto more trouble than what I

(36:28):
should.
I stepped out from behind themicrophone and I yelled may I
respond?
Left out from behind themicrophone and I yelled, may I
respond, and I think it was likeprobably 10 of the brothers out
of the, out of the crowd.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
They were like let him talk, let him talk, let him
talk.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
So they turn my microphone back on and I was
able to refute some of thepoints the conversation got
after he and I went back andforth, which again was was a
very fun, spirited debate and,and if you're looking at this
like a game, right, so you'relooking at this like a chess
match, or-.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Which is how you look at it.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
That's how I look at everything.
I'm not emotionally invested inTurkey Creek, but I am gonna
play this game and I'm gonnahave fun with it, right, right.
So, and I told everybody whowas involved with it.
I told them the exact samething no-transcript.

(37:41):
Want to go out and get a drink,have a cigar?
We'll laugh and cut up and talkabout the stupid stuff we did
as teenagers.
I don't care.
Like you know, let's still haveyour disagreements too, yeah,
yeah, of course.
Like I said, we went back andforth.
There was a motion on the floorto restore the charter of
Turkey Creek.
The conversation turned at thatpoint because whenever I

(38:01):
started talking about thequalifications of MLT and Master
Mason 123, I mentioned thatthere were nine brothers who had
that I said.
The problem is is it goes fromthe brothers to the instructor,
to a reporting and then to thegrandmaster's hands, right, so
there are four parties involvedhere, and if it did not get
reported and it did not get tothe grandmaster's hands, that is

(38:24):
not the brother's fault.
The brother took the class,right, it's not the brother's
fault that didn't get to yourhands required right.
Uhorshipful Cowart thenresponded with it is the job of
the secretary to make sure thatit's reported.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
The secretaries can't record that in the Grand Lodge
database.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
So that kind of goes back to the legalism side of it
of pushing off the work ontoother people.
I believe that to be alegalistic approach.
I disagree with it.
I don't think it's thesecretary's job to do it.
I think it's to the people thatyou appoint.
In that grand line.
It's the people that areappointed, it's their job to do
it.
It's not my job.
I did my job.
I went to the class.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
That's just in keeping with the way that
decisions were being made allyear.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
A bunch of brothers stood up and started talking
about MLT and Master Mason, one,two, three and all this other
stuff and the the conversationstarted to drift away from
Turkey Creek and towards anotherissue I think we have in the
craft right now.
But either way, it got voted on.
There's emotion on the floor.
It was seconded, it was votedon and about 40% of the brothers

(39:30):
were for Turkey Creek getting astarter back and about 60
percent weren't.
So, essentially, I had, youknow, three to five minutes to
speak.
Um, especially with the back andforth you know I wasn't on a
timer at that point um, I hadthree to five minutes to speak
and I was able to convince 40 ofthe craft and I consider that a
win personally, um, especiallywith how flipping nervous I was
there.
I'm I'm not on home turf atthis point and I've got the

(39:54):
Grandmaster sitting in the GrandEast and he's speaking to me
and I'm speaking to him andagain, it's spirited.
I'm not going to lie about it.
It was probably the mostspirited conversation that
happened on the floor and I'musing that word specifically.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
So how were you personally feeling when you sat
down from that exchange?
Were you like, oh my God, Ijust screwed up horribly, or
were you?
No, no?

Speaker 2 (40:17):
no, I don't regret any of that.
The only thing that I regretout of what I said there is I
mentioned a right worshipful byname and it made him look bad
and I actually genuinely respectthe guy, but I mean, it was in
the middle of a debate and I didnot think about that at the
time.
I regret saying his name, um,but the facts that I said are

(40:39):
accurate, right.
So, um, and again, he's a guythat I respect and this is a
part that that really kind ofupset me.
Um, from grand lodge.
Um is, here was the, here wasthe interesting thing about it.
I've got this weird thing and Iagain I keep telling y'all that
I'm weird.
You're gonna figure it out thatif I'm in a scenario where I

(40:59):
should be panicked or I shouldbe nervous, I should be name a
thing.
If you're in a situation whereyou're nervous, typically your
thoughts get jumbled up, right.
I think all of us, wheneveryou're doing public speaking,
we've all experienced that Idon't have that.
My body will act as the emotionshould dictate.
So I looked like I was nervous,I spoke like I was nervous, but

(41:22):
mentally my thoughts were veryclear, and so that's a nice
trick, it, you know, I, Ideveloped it back whenever my
dad, um, I started working on itand noticing it back whenever
my dad had cancer, um, becausewe were at a point where he was
over here at a local hospitaland they were like, hey, you
need to call in hospice, he'sdone.
And so, you know, as a 20 yearold kid, you hear that your

(41:44):
dad's about to die and it's,it's pretty intense.
I mean, that's an intense thing.
Yeah, um, you know, and, and itwasn't any of that, it was okay

(42:11):
, what's our next step?
So it's like none of us wereupset.
It was what is our next step?
We're going to keep fightingthis.
Now, later on that night, yeah,I bawled, my, walked to the back
of the room and there is aright worshipful who I truly
respect and love I really do andhe was furious with me, furious
, um, and I, I shook his handand he goes.
I disagree with everything yousaid right now, right then, and

(42:31):
I said that's perfectly fine.
I said disagree, we're on twosides of this conversation, but
I do still genuinely respect you.
I said I love you, I respectyou.
None of that is going to change.
My opinion of you has notchanged.
It's just that we disagree andI have since sent out two emails
to the two guys that I reallyrespect, because I know they
were mad the fact that I got upand spoke in favor of Turkey

(42:54):
Creek.
They were angry about it andit's like, look, I'm sorry, you
know we're on different sides ofthis conversation.
I'm not emotionally investedand I still think of you guys
exactly the same, and I haven'theard anything back.
I doubt I will, but you did theright thing, you tried.

(43:16):
I tried email said I got no hardfeelings.
I hope you don't.
Yeah, I didn't mean to hurtanybody, yeah, so, um, so that's
kind of uh, oh, it seems likewe have somebody in the audience
watching.
So that was the second day.
I actually didn't stay pastlunch.
I spoke about you and I spokeabout turkey creek.
Um, and I I'm like, all right,I'm done.
At this point, I'm just I'mgoing home.
Since then, the amount ofbrothers from across the state

(43:37):
that have reached out to myself,to the Turkey Creek page it's
called the Ghost of 248.
If you guys want to follow thatpage, the amount of brothers
that have reached out and saidhow can I help, has been
staggering to me.
I mean, it has been sorefreshing to hear that and to
see that that all these brothersare standing up and saying, no,

(43:58):
we want to help you.
You made a good case.
We want to help you.
How's getting installed, youknow?

Speaker 1 (44:03):
what didn't get accepted.
You you know that you gave ityour best shot to defend turkey
creek and you're getting set upwith new meetings yeah, so, um,

(44:24):
so that is that's one thing.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
That um again.
If we, if I, would have beenable to have the conversation
with the previous administration, I think the whole turkey creek
scenario would have beentotally different.
It would have been completelydifferent because what they had
a problem with was the pastmasters at Turkey Creek, which I
get it.
I mean, I've told everybody hey, turkey Creek has had its time,
where it's been a bit of arebellious lodge.

(44:47):
I'm not denying that at all.
I was trying to flush that outwith new blood is what I was
trying to do, and I just wasnever able to effectively
implement it.
And keep in mind, I wasstudying to sit in the East for
a degree.
This is something I didn't getto say on the floor and I wanted
to.
I was studying to sit in theEast for a degree and I was so
happy with our progress ofyou've got all brand new Masons

(45:09):
that are putting on this degreeI was going to invite the entire
grand line to come to thatdegree.
I was going to invite theentire grand line to come to
that degree.
I was going to invite all ofthem and say, no, come see what
we're doing right, because nowwe've got the plan of action,
we've got eight to 11 years offresh leadership.
Come see what we're doingplease, because I want it to be.
I want Turkey Creek to be agood lodge, or I wanted Turkey
Creek to be a good lodge yeah, Ijust ended up going home.

(45:31):
Now the cool thing about thatis now most worshipful tally
then, right, worshipful tally.
Tuesday afternoon he reached outto me and he goes I want to
help you.
And I was like huh, you knowthat, which, which again was a
total 180 from what myexperience had been so far.
So he's like I want to help you.
I'm like great, that's awesome,let's do it.
I ended up talking to him onThursday morning.

(45:53):
We had about a half hourconversation and he goes.
He started off the conversationwith how can I help Turkey Creek
get its charter back?
Let's work to get TurkeyCreek's charter back, and I said
most words full with from whereI'm at right now.
So he was at breakfast withsome people.
He stepped away, he gave me ahalf hour of his time and so I

(46:18):
came up with an idea of howTurkey Creek could still be of
use.
Once that goes through theproper channels, I'll be able to
speak on that a little bit more, but that was awesome.
I mean, it was really, reallycool the fact that now he's been
the grandmaster for less than24 hours and he's reaching out
to me saying how can I help you?

(46:39):
Help, aid and assist.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
So you make a proposal he has never heard
before and he receives itfavorably.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Whenever I threw out the idea, he sat there, he was
quiet for a little while, towhere I was like, did my phone?
Drop the call?
He was quiet for a little bitand then he goes, matt I'm, and
I was like, well, it's what'sbest for the craft.
I mean, at the end of the day,my personal feelings are these
are my personal feelings is Iwant Turkey Creek to come back.

(47:09):
It's my home lodge, man.
I mean, it's the place where Iwas raised.
I want Turkey Creek back.
But is that what's best for thecraft?
And the answer is no, it's notwhat is best for the craft,
because in five years we'llprobably end up being in the
exact same situation.
But it can still help the craftin some way, exactly which,
which is what my proposal is, um.

(47:31):
So I dove into the digest, Isent out the proposal to most
worshipful tally, um, mostworshipful foster and right
worshipful winling, and was like, hey, here's my idea for turkey
creek.
You guys let me know yourthoughts, but at the end of the
day, I am out of District 20.
I am in District 21 now and Ilove being in District 21.
So you guys do with it what youwill.

(47:53):
I'll help any way you want meto.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
So you got a proposal out.
The Grandmaster is consideringit at this point, or do you need
to do more work on your part toget it to over the hop?

Speaker 2 (48:06):
I, I have done all the work that I can.
As you know, from my, from myposition, I've done all the work
I can.
I dove into the digest, youknow, tearing through a couple
of those things, because, gosh,I've read the digest so much
this year, yeah me too, have wetalked about on the show, by the
way, that, uh, my worshipfulmaster at lakeland got removed
by Edict and he's facing chargesright now.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
I don't think so.
Okay, he hasn't had a trial yet, right?

Speaker 2 (48:30):
No, he has not had a trial yet.
I really hope that is just kindof dismissed, because they were
kind of petty charges, if I'mbeing honest with you, to be
honest with you.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
There are people who remain suspended or got expelled
or are under charges.
Currently there's anotherbrother who's in another state
and he was too sick he couldn'tmake it so they pushed back his
trial, but all of these brothersgot the same problems I had.
So I don't know how we helpthem all, but I hope someone

(49:03):
listening can help us find a wayto help the other brothers that
were kind of treated improperlylast year and deserve a fair
shake.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Yeah, and honestly I mean again, I kind of go back to
the trials and you and a coupleof other people, y'all guys
keep making the joke that I'messentially campaigning for
Grand Line right now.
No, I'm not.
I haven't made that joke yet.
I think it was cooney who madeit.
Actually, he's like man, you'regonna be in the grand line one
day.
I'm like no, uh, no, I don'twant the smoke, I'm good yeah no

(49:32):
I'm with you on that one.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
You couldn't pay me money to get into the politics.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
Yeah, I'm of the opinion that whenever it comes
to and actually, um, uh brother,uh brother, tim um from the
panhandle, he has somelegislation that he's drafting
up that I think is going to bemore in line with what is proper
and good for the craft.
So, for example, whenever we gointo trials, I think the goal
should be peace.
You know not, not condemning.

(49:57):
The goal should be peace.
Okay, how can we make this apeaceful thing?
Explain why you did what youdid.
Here's what the digest said.
I think a, a reprimand, shouldbe the most used punishment in
masonry, I think suspension orexpulsion.
And, by the way, can we do awaywith the indefinite suspension
ordeal, cause that is thedumbest, it makes no sense,

(50:20):
cause you might as well justexpel him, you know.
So indefinite suspensiondoesn't make sense, you might as
well expel the guy.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
It goes through all the same process.
It's slightly easier to getback into the fraternity if
you're indefinitely suspendedthan if you're expelled.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Then give him a 50-year suspension?
I don't know, man, I watch someof this stuff and, honestly, as
I'm looking at it, you've gotpeople who have been in this
fraternity longer than I've beenalive and that is a true
statement.
And so, and actually that's thecase for most worshipful Don
Coward.
You know, whenever he came toTurkey Creek and he spoke about
it being that way for 42 yearsat Turkey Creek, my response to
him was and again, this is whatgot me in trouble Um, my

(50:57):
response was most worshipful.
I can't answer for whathappened five years before I was
born.
I'm sorry, I got nothing.
Man, I need to know where tofind answers.
Who?

Speaker 1 (51:06):
brings stuff up from that far back.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
He had his reasons.
I'm not pretending to know hisreasons.
I don't fully agree with hisreasons, but at the end of the
day, there's nothing in Masonicteaching that says that I have
to agree with everything aperson does.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
No hard feelings?

Speaker 2 (51:24):
No, not at all, because, at the end of the day,
my goal is peace.
That's what my goal is, that'swhat I care about.
I want there to be peace in thecraft.
I want there to be peace in thefraternity.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
The past is now behind us.
So, let's start fixing thingsand rebuilding things.
Yeah, including trust.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
We need to rebuild trust between the Grand Line and
the craft that I completelyagree with, because you do have
brothers around the state thatare still hurt and you have
brothers that are still beingaffected right now.
For example, I've talked aboutWorshipful Ryan from Lakeland
Lodge.
He's facing charges right nowand the only thing that he did,
or what he was accused of, Ishould say now they put in his

(52:02):
charges.
They put like evil speak andunmasonic conduct and all this
other stuff you know, like the,the umbrella stuff, right, um,
but it's that he didn'tspecifically follow the digest
on removing an appointed officerand there were issues
surrounding that because therehas to be notification to the
craft.
There were issues surroundingthat that stopped us from being
able to do that.

(52:22):
Now, to be fair and this is arumor that I've heard and I hope
the right people hear what I'mabout to say when it comes to
what happened at Lakeland Lodge,I dove into the digest.
I wrote out all the procedures.
I wrote out hey, here's exactlywhat the digest says, here's
what I would do, and I actuallywent with the most aggressive
option.

(52:43):
I was going hard in the paintbecause it's like no, we're
going to go ahead and cut offthe head of this snake right now
and just be done with it.
They actually did not follow mysuggestion.
They took their own path, whichhe's the worshipful master.
It's his right to do that right.
He did not follow my counseland my counsel was aggressive.
He was being merciful, so which, again I realized what I just

(53:06):
said is counterproductive towhat I said about trials, where
it should the goal should bepeace.
What I was looking at is, um,this was a scenario where one of
the parties did not want peace,and it was very evident that
they did not want peace.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Well, I think that that's something important for
our new grand mind to rememberis that they have the hard task
now of regaining the trust ofthe brothers and really the only
way to do that is just tocommunicate with them.
So I hope they're listening andI hope that they understand
that communicating is the answerto almost all of our problems.
We've got to listen to eachother, yeah, and just to hear

(53:42):
each other out Right.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
And, just like we said on the last, on the last
podcast, the offer is open.
If anybody from the Grand Lineand I truly mean anybody from
the Grand Line past GrandMasters, it doesn't matter.
If you want to come on to thisshow, we will give you a fair
shake, you know.
Explain to the craft what yourthoughts, goals, your opinion of
masonry, all of that.
We'll send you the questionsahead of time.

(54:08):
We're not doing any kind ofgotcha journalism uh, we're not
doing that.
But I do think it would be goodand it would be wise for us to
increase communication andtransparency.
I think that would be good forthe entire craft um 100 percent
yeah, especially now and evenstill.
I mean, we talked about, uh,that if Worshipful Roger Hall
had won, that we were going todo like a fireside chat.
Yeah, I, honestly, if you're OKwith it, because this is your

(54:29):
show, I mean, I know that, Ijust it's our show that's got to
stop.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
Now.
You have to take responsibilityfor this as much as I do,
because it's your show too.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
So either way, I'm definitelywilling to extend that offer to
Most Worshipful Tally of youknow.
Hey, come on to the show.
You know brothers from aroundthe country Actually, no,
because I've seen the stats onit Brothers from around the
world listen to this show.
You know we got brothers inAfrica from the UK.

(54:59):
I mean, we've got people allover the world watching this
show.
So the offer is open.
No kind of gotcha.
Let's just have conversationslike brothers and say, okay,
here's what we're hearing in thecraft, what are your thoughts
on it?
What are your plans?
What are your goals?
How can we help achieve thosegoals?
Because, at the end of the day,I think that the brothers of

(55:19):
the craft should be helping theGrand Line.
Also, I believe the brothers inthe Grand Line should be
helping the craft.
That is a two-way street.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
I 100% agree with that.
We have to work together andit's not them against us.
They have their problems and wehave our problems too.
We need to fix ourselves.
We have a lot in fighting asbrothers that we shouldn't have.
You know, a lot oflittleighting as brothers that
we shouldn't have, a lot oflittle picks and quarrels that

(55:52):
we shouldn't have.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
We just got to talk to each other.
As a past Grandmaster once toldme if you don't like it, get
the F out.
So I was at get the F out stage, but the brothers have really
kind of revitalized my affinityfor the craft.
You know I love the lessons inmasonry but all of our lessons

(56:15):
are on the Internet anyway, so Icould get that anytime I want
just by a Google search.
The brothers have really kindof revived me in the craft.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
So yeah, like you said, you're getting calls now.
You have a plan, You're workingwith the Grandmaster.
What does the future of MattStone's career look like now?
Let's make this prediction sowe can come back and watch this
episode in five years.
Where does Matt expect to befive years from now?

Speaker 2 (56:41):
So here's the thing Putting my neck out there for
turkey creek as I'm not going tosay as aggressively but as
passionately as I did, it put meon a couple of radars that I
don't want to be on, um, so I, Iwas not a fan of that at all
and and I, I was making enemiesof people that I had never met.

(57:01):
You know, up until you knowgrand communication, I had never
met these people and I'm likeyou know, hey, how are you?
And it's one of those thingswhere I don't like that Matt
Stone guy and it's like I'venever met.
You like, it's fine if youdon't like me, but at least you
know, get to know me.
And you know, let's go fromthere, um, so, going into it, I
was done.
Coming out of it, the brothershave revived me.

(57:22):
What's on the future for me?
Right now, I honestly I want tosettle this situation with
turkey creek, um, which I'm veryexcited, uh, for what's going
to happen there, because, again,it's going to be what's good
for the craft.
It's not what's good for me,it's not what's good just for
turkey creek, it's good for thewhole.
I want to get through that.
I want to be quiet for a littlewhile because I'm tired.

(57:42):
You want to talk about bustingyour tail in the quarries man?
This year I did it.
I also want to get throughWorseful Ryan's trial.
I want to see him fullyrestored.
He's a very dear friend of mine.
I absolutely love the guy, so Iwant to see him totally
restored.
That's another goal that I'mworking toward.
After that, I just want to be alodge instructor, a mentor, a

(58:04):
catechism instructor, whatever,and let me go through the chairs
and just kind of enjoy sometime of peace and actually fall
in love with the craft, becauseI've got brothers that have been
in it for 30, 40 years.
They're like man, I love thecraft and I love everything that
it is and all this other stuff.
And I asked them and I've saidit here on the show before I'm
like I wish I knew what you weretalking about, because my first
year sucked.
It was absolutely terrible.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
Yeah, it's not going to be worse than that.
That was about as bad as threeMason Reeds that was rough man.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
It was rough and I would be curious because we
started off the year with 28,000Masons in the state and we were
basically for the brothers thatdied off and the brothers that
came in and were initiated.
We had about a one-to-one ratio, but over the last 10 years in
the state of Florida we've had a22% decrease.
Nationally it was 24%.
I would like to see that change.

(58:54):
I'm curious this past year howmany brothers we lost.
So whenever that census comesout of how many brothers are
actually in the state now, I'mreally curious to see what those
numbers are.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
The focus wasn't on growing the fraternity.
There's a certain group ofpeople that think it needs to
shrink that.
That's a good, healthy thing.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
Shrink further than it has.
I don't think it needs toshrink.
I've heard a right worshipfulsay at one point it's not about
quantity, it's about quality.
I can give you a very goodpicture of how that looks over a
long period of time.
Yeah, but you can have both,yeah yeah, I agree with that,
you can definitely have both.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
You can have a big organization full of the best
guys.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Yeah, and honestly, there's a lot of churches that
do that.
Where they're like you knowwhat?
We might be 50 people sittingin this room, but you, you know
what it's about the quality ofpeople and it's like no, if
you're in a church, your job isto bring people in and to tell
them the good news.
Same thing with masonry.
We're about making good menbetter, bring the good men in.

(59:55):
So shrinking the organizationintentionally and this is just a
numbers thing shrinking theorganization intentionally,
whether it be church or whetherit be masonry, is not going to
be a net positive.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
That's actually going to damage.
It's going to do more damagethan it is anything.
And it's so easy to bringpeople into the fraternity.
It's so easy and the guy whotook over my job at the Grand
Lodge Marketing ReimbursementProgram is really doing a great
job, but he's just not gettingsupport from the people at Grand
Lodge.

(01:00:27):
So they have to be bought intoit if they really want to make
it happen, and it will happen ifthey buy into it.
So here's crossing my fingersthat that becomes a big issue
for them.
Is fixing this membershipproblem soon?

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
So you want to talk about brothers working in the
quarry?
I don't think it's any secretand I don't think this is
controversial at all in sayingthis, but after this past year
in masonry and again, my lastyear in masonry sucked.
It was terrible.
Um, yeah, yeah, yours too, uh Ithink, the grand line has got a
lot of work to do in the quarryright now.

(01:01:00):
They really really do um andI'm here to help them.
You know I am here to help.
I will help, aid and assistthose brothers in any way that I
can, absolutely I want to seethem win.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
If they win, we win yeah, so let's all win together.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Yeah, and so again, um, I'm, I believe that.
What's that?

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
no, you're not.
You're going to come on thispodcast and I'm going to keep
making you talk.
And we got to talk about asthings develop at the Turkey
Creek situation.
The brothers, I'm sure, want tohear updates on how that's
going.
So we're going to need to hearabout that and it's my sincere
hope that we can interview someGrand Lodge people in the near

(01:01:43):
future and let them talk to theyounger brothers of the craft.
Yeah, that maybe don't getexposed to them because they
don't go to the events theydon't.
You know, they don't like thedog and pony show.
So, yeah, new media is a waythat you could talk to every
single brother.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Well, I mean, you can talk to brothers from around
the world just using this righthere.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
It's a very good tool to have, it would be great to
have our Grandmaster come onthis podcast and talk about
strength, harmony, because othergrand jurisdictions, from what
I understand, were reallywatching hard what was going to
happen in our grandcommunication.
I'm sure there's a sigh ofrelief that the brothers took
some action, um, from otherjurisdictions that were looking

(01:02:31):
at us under the microscope.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
So they have work to do, not just internally but to
our outside brothers that thatsaw, yeah, the disharmony we had
and honestly, after grand lodgeand I think it was this way
with a lot of the brothers thatI talked to it was almost like a
sigh of relief.
Whenever Wednesday rolledaround, it was a sigh of relief.
It was just okay.

(01:02:53):
Now that's behind us.
Now how can we move forward ina productive manner?
I did notice that amongst thebrothers because even whenever
you were walking through thelobby of the Rosin like you
could feel the tension in theair.
You could feel it like I wasthere.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Obviously, I was there the weekend before and it
was not like any othercommunication I'd ever been to.
There was a lot of people justin smaller groups.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
like keeping it quiet in smaller groups like you can
get quiet and well, especially,especially, whenever and and you
know what I'm talking aboutwhenever I say this especially
whenever we're sitting thereright after your appeal and then
a group of people go and sit ata table right across the
walkway from us and we're like,yeah, that was.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
It felt like it was on purpose, but I guess I don't
know for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
And here's the thing that's not Masonic.
What happened to trigger thatthought in your brain?
What caused that and whatcaused that was not Masonic,
right?
So not that you had thereaction, your reaction was
justified.
But whenever you have, youshould be able to have open
communication with yourleadership, and I think we're

(01:04:08):
finally back at a point wherethat's a little more acceptable.
The brothers are going to be.
You know, they've kind ofquelled down a little bit or
quieted down a little bit.
I think the brothers are goingto be all right.
Let's get back to peace andharmony.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Yeah, I mean they're ready for it.
They're ready for the goodstuff.
So I think we're all ready forit.
Let's see it.
Yeah, and next year.
I hope you try to shake thebrother's hand, who wouldn't
shake your hand this year andhopefully he will next year.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
I hear he may be retiring so I might not get the
opportunity.
Oh, that would be disappointing, honestly, and that's the funny
thing about it.
Look, if you hate me, that'sfine, but at least sit down and
have a conversation with me ofwhy you hate me.
I'll hear you out.
I will never get mad about that.
It's like no, let's have aconversation, because the only
thing is he.

(01:04:54):
So here's the thing.
This is a fair thing to say.
There were people in last year'sadministration that they, I'm
gonna say, hated, hated brothersin the craft based off of what
they heard somebody else say.
Because I didn't have aconversation with any of these

(01:05:15):
guys.
So there's only one person outof the grand line last year that
I even had a conversation with.
So, and then, likewise, you hada lot of brothers in the craft
and again, this is a fair thingto you had a lot of brothers in
the craft and again, this is afair thing to say, you had a lot
of brothers in the craft thatthey hated people in the grand
line because of what they heard.
Brothers Masons talk a lot andnot all of it is accurate.

(01:05:35):
You've got to find the truth,and you and I had a scenario
about that last year where we'reon a Zoom call and it's you
know, well, this person did that, and this person, you know, did
all these other things.
And I said where's your proof,right?
I don't care what other peopleare talking about, where's your
proof?
Well, I've seen it.
Then get your hands on it,right?
And then, if it's true, thenlet's discuss it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
But stop saying it, right, yeah, that's, that's not
masonic either, you know you?
Uh, just because you heardsomething doesn't make it worth
repeating yeah and honestly.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
And brothers, I say this with love I really do
mason's gossip more than teenagegirls.
It's insane.
My wife says that too it is.

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
You guys are worth a bunch of women hanging out at
the air drives.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Oh, and it's hilarious.
I find it absolutely hilarious.
So again, with how much work Idid last year to try to make
sure the truth was out there, Iplan on doing an equivalent
amount of work, if not more, torestore peace and harmony.
That's what I want to do,because the past is in the past,
now we can put it behind us.
And now I want to take time andfall in love with the craft.

(01:06:43):
That's what I want to do,because the past is in the past.
Now we can put it behind us andnow.
Now I want to take time andfall in love with the craft.
That's what I want to do.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Good, okay, that's a good answer, and I hope that
that happens for you.
It looks like it's going to andand then we'll interview again
when you're the master of alodge and then when you're ahead
, before you put in yourcandidacy for the Grand Line.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Don't you dare put that evil on me, Chris Burns.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Then, when you're the Grand Master and I'm 100 years
old, we'll do another podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
No, thank you.
I am okay.
I am all right for now andagain.
That may change in the future,but as it stands right now.
I own a construction business,I run an air conditioning
business, I'm active in my lodge.
I own a construction business,I run an air conditioning
business, I'm active in my lodge, I have a three-year-old and I
have a wife who I love very much.
She's really been in my cornerfor a lot of this and she's
heard a lot of this drama.

(01:07:32):
I don't have the time to moveup any more than just regular
lodge meetings as of right now.
My time will allow me to be aworshipful master and that's
about it.
I don't have any time foranything else.
I'm sorry, the answer is goingto have to be no.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
I think that's good.
You need to pace yourself.
Everyone says that, but now youunderstand.
Freemasonry is a marathon, itis not a sprint.
Yep, although you've beensprinting, um, you've been
sprinting, so it's time to slowdown the pace.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Yeah, and here's the thing, brothers, especially you
younger brothers or shoot, youcould be a 50-year member, I
don't care.
I truly hope I really hope andpray this for you that your
Masonic journey does not mirrormine.
My year was hard.
It was a very hard year.

(01:08:24):
The average guy wouldn't havemade it through your year.
Yeah, and you've said this on aprevious podcast from last week
that my exposure to churchpolitics and my exposure to
local politics because I am onthe planning board here locally
my exposure to those things and,of course, being a business
owner and going to all thebusiness classes and studying,

(01:08:45):
watching people's body language,how they word things, logic,
rhetoric, all the stuff that westudy, it kind of set me up to
be able to handle a lot of thedifficulties that I had last
year.
But again, I really hopenobody's Masonic journey mirrors
mine because it was.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
It was hard.
I hope it doesn't as well, andwe have work to do still.
So it's not retirement time yet.
It's time to get busy help morepeople.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Yeah, but can I put in a vacation request?
You can, I just need a coupleof days.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
Yes, it's approved, you've earned it.
Keep your phone handy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
We might still call you.
I don't know about all thatphone handy we might still call
you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
I don't know about all that.
Well, listen, you have had avery unique journey and you're
at a great place right now.
What would you like to say tothe brothers that are listening
in Florida?
And?

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
beyond One thing that I learned in this past year
masonry unites us in a way thatis super unique.
I was not expecting brothersfrom other states to call me and
say how can I help, and theyactually put effort forward, you
know, to help us here inFlorida and to help me

(01:09:57):
personally.
I mean it was absolutely insane.
So the help, aid and assistpart was so evident with the
brothers in the craft and it wasso evident with brothers in
other states.
I had people from multiplestates and even other countries
calling me saying hey, you know,we're on board, what do you
need?
That was heartwarming for me.

(01:10:20):
Masonry unites us.
The politics of masonry is whatdivides us.
We've got to find a way inorder to have a conversation and
for all of us to come together.
So my whole thing is and all ofus know it but may peace and
brotherly love prevail.
That is my goal, that's whatI'm working towards.
So, like I said, I'm probablygoing to be a little more quiet

(01:10:41):
than what I have been, but atthe end of the day, I'm not
going to stop doing what's right.
I'm not going to stop fightingfor the brothers in the craft.
The fact that I had about threeto five minutes to speak about
Turkey Creek and 40% of thecraft agreed with me shocked me,
and especially with your voteand the fact that it was almost
unanimous.
That shocked me too.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
Give me a little bit of this feeling I that shocked
me too.
That was a little bit of thisfeeling.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
I'm not.
I'm not going to lie duringgrand lodge, like and here's the
thing, I'm not an emotional guyat all.
I'm very, very logical, like tothe point where it pisses my
wife off.
But when I looked, I was in theback of the room whenever they
voted on you specifically and itgot me to choke up.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
Like I actually choked up a little bit and I was
like this is awesome, this isabsolutely awesome.
I still do, if I talk about ittoo much.
Um, because, yeah, free masonryis really important to me.
Um made a part, big part, of mylife and I thought it was gone
for a minute and the brothersbrought it back.
So I owe so many people and Ihope I can repay people.
You know, I hope I get theopportunity to repay everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
That that really is shined through the fraternal
aspect in that, the fact thatthese brothers did not forget
the teachings that we learned inthe three symbolic degrees.
They did not forget it.
They stuck true to theircatechisms, the obligations,
they stuck true to all of that.
I mean, there was a lot of talkabout well, we all took the

(01:12:14):
same oath at our sacred altarand it's like, well, we did, and
I'm watching these brothersapply it and they're applying it
very well.
So that was that was.
That was heartwarming for me.
Uh, it really was.
And so, brothers that werethere, even if you voted against
me, and even still today, ifyou hate my guts, um, I still
love you.
Um, you know, I'll still doanything in the world for you,

(01:12:35):
um, you know, and if I can't doit, I probably know someone who
can.
So how can they?

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
reach out to you if they do want to give you some
feedback, or offer anyassistance to you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
You know a lot of brothers have been reaching out
through the Ghost of 248.
It's the previous Turkey Creekpage, but they've also been
reaching out to me directly.
So if you reach out to, On theLevel, the Ghost of 248, or if
you reach out to me directly, Ihave access to all of that.
You know, I want to hear fromthe brothers.
Even if you disagreed with me,I still want to hear it and so
that way I can justify myposition, because I only had

(01:13:06):
three minutes to tell what I sawwas the truth.
And there's more to the story.
Obviously, I'm not going totalk about it right now, but
there is more to the story.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
There is so much more to the story.
That's why I say if thebrothers heard the whole story,
you would have seen a nearlyunanimous vote for Turkey to
keep its charter, seen in anearly unanimous vote for Turkey
.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
Creek to keep its charter.
But again, I only had threeminutes but at the end of the
day I'm focused on again, peaceand harmony.
That's why I put forward thisproposal about Turkey Creek.
It goes against what I wantpersonally and emotionally, but
it's what's good for the craft.

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
It's a good solution.
I'm very impressed and excitedfor everyone to hear about it.
I hope it comes to fruition.
I will be there to support youand that lodge if things go in a
positive direction, like wehope they do.
Are you kidding?

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
You're going to be my installing officer.
What are you talking about?
I would gladly do it, gladly.
So that's it for my review ofGrand Communication.
I was tired, I was frustratedand the brothers have brought me
back to life.
So, brothers, thank you.
I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
Yes, all right, that's about it for us in this
episode of On the Level podcast.
If you haven't, give a like,maybe share it with your
brothers.
We're really trying to getpeople to subscribe and follow

(01:14:35):
us so that we don't have to keepchasing you all over the
Internet.
So if you happen to listen tothis and you didn't hate it,
please do like, subscribe andshare, and give us suggestions
for what you want to hear, whoyou want to talk to.
Maybe you yourself want to comeon the show.
You have an idea that you wantto share with the craft.
We are a vessel for positivechange in freemasonry, so please

(01:14:59):
do reach out to us.
Until next time, this is On theLevel Podcast and we are out.

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