September 11, 2024 • 65 mins
Ever wondered what happens when Freemasonry meets paranormal investigations? Join Chris and Matt as we welcome the ever-curious Mikey Juan Acevedo from Sarasota Lodge No. 147. Mikey, host of the popular "Beyond the Boundaries" podcast, shares his journey through the world of cryptids, UFOs, and the unknown. We'll also share some laughs as Matt recounts a renovation project that didn't quite go according to plan.
Mikey and Matt dive deep into their Masonic journeys, reflecting on the unique generational dynamics within the lodge. Matt recounts his memorable role as the Tyler of Sarasota Lodge and the peculiar challenges of Masonic traditions. Through engaging stories and humorous anecdotes, they explore the importance of authenticity and scientific rigor in paranormal investigations, debunking common myths and examining cultural beliefs about the supernatural.
Prepare to be intrigued as we examine the mysteries of Skinwalker Ranch, the impact of dreams and spirit communication, and the government's involvement in paranormal research. From the eerie phenomena documented at Skinwalker Ranch to the profound effects of dreams revealing hidden truths, this episode promises a captivating blend of Masonic wisdom and the enigmatic world of the paranormal. Don't miss Mikey's insights and our thought-provoking discussions on these otherworldly topics.
Beyond The Boundaries Paranormal Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61554718513406
Beyond the Boundaries Paranormal Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheBoundariesParanormal
#freemasonry #paranormal #ufo #uap #bluelodge #podcast
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
you've reached the internet's home for all things
masonry.
Join on the level podcast as weplumb the depths of our ancient
craft and try to unlock themysteries, dispel the fallacies
and utilize the teachings offreemasonry to unlock the
greatness within each of us.
I have you now.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Let's go.
Oh yeah, let's get it.
We back, matt, we are back, weback, we back, let's get it.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
We back Matt.
We are back, we back, we back.
Let's get it.
Look who's back Back again Oldguy's back.
We are catching up on content.
We've been slacking.
My fault, I've been busy.
I think you've been busy, Matt.
You've got a promotion in yourlodge and you've got a lot of
stuff going on in your lodge.
You've got a promotion in yourlodge and you've got a lot of
stuff going on in your lodge.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Promotion is a very strong word that I don't think
it applies, but yeah, let's dothat.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Well, let's call it a wartime appointment.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Then Bill Katsoulis called it that, wright Worsh
called it that.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
A wartime appointment .
They'll listen to this after.
We're going to release thisdirectly after the Katsoulis
podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So they to this after the.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
We're going to release this directly after the
cats who was podcast, so they'llknow what we're talking about.
Yeah, good, and we have aspecial guest with us today from
my home lodge, sarasota, lodgenumber 147, mikey juan asafito,
our brother mikey, our installedTyler.
Welcome to the podcast, brother, mikey, thank you.
Thank you for having me.
What's?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
up brother.
So to be fair, and I wanteverybody to know this, the last
time I saw Mikey, he and I werein a shower while a 70-year-old
woman was watching us.
But we're going to leave thatstory for another time.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
So I don't know that your standing in the fraternity
will allow this to lay overuntil next time.
You might need to clarify thatstatement.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
We'll leave it up to the listener's mind.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Okay.
All I'm saying is she wasmaking it rain, nickels.
That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
And her Wow, I still have welts from it.
She was throwing pennies allover me.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
You guys are going to kill me before we even start.
Damn it.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
That's the goal, man.
That's the goal.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
For those of the listeners that aren't aware,
matt, in addition to being an ACguy, is also a contractor of
sorts, and as is Mikey, and theywork together on some
construction projects.
So no, they weren't in aperson's private bathroom while
she was outside watchingthrowing nickels at them.
I mean, that's a great scene tohave, I think, in your mind.
(02:50):
No, they were actually doing arenovation for her.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I've seen her peeking through the window every once
in a while.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Man.
So we are here today becauseour brother, Mikey Acevedo,
actually in his spare time as ahobby runs a paranormal
investigation podcast.
Would you care to share thename of your podcast with the
listeners?
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Yeah, we're beyond the boundaries.
You can find us on Facebook,instagram, tiktok, any platforms
you can think of, so we justtalk about anything paranormal,
not just paranormal Cryptids,aliens, all that.
We get into just about anything.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
We're going to talk about the greys.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
The greys yeah, a lot of people just tuned out.
Don't tune out.
Listen, okay, listen to what wehave to say.
I know you think this is crazyand this is crazy talk, but just
listen and see what you thinkat the end.
If you still think it's crazy,then okay, I'll never do this
again.
Just let me know.
Mikey's not coming back on thepodcast you're doing.
(03:58):
You just covered a wide rangeof subjects.
It used to be these things werein very siloed buckets.
We had a UFO community.
We had a ufo community.
We had a paranormal community.
We had, specifically, cryptidswere broken up.
We had bigfoot community.
We had a loch ness monstercommunity.
We had the chupacabra communityuh, we got the mothman people
(04:21):
out there.
So, okay, if you're notfamiliar with what us crazy
people talk about, cryptids areany kind of a creature that
can't be explained by modern.
You know we don't know aboutthese.
They're not in our catalog ofexisting animals.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
That we call them fairy tale animals yeah, they're
, they're.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
These are animals that typically show up in
stories or things to scarechildren.
Right, everybody tells Bigfootstories when they go camping.
The Abominable Snowman.
There's another one.
We were talking about thisbefore the podcast started.
I'm older than you guys.
(05:01):
I know what it sucks to be inmy role and be the old man, but
that's my role in life,unfortunately now, and so I was
born in 1975.
And I remember being 17.
We were talking about this.
I would drive to work at Disney.
I worked at Disney at that ageand some of the restaurants I
(05:22):
worked in there were servers andI was like the guy that would
bank out the servers.
So we had a lot of private timein the room while they're
waiting for me to verify theircash, and when I'd have, like
the guys that believed in UFOsalone, we would like talk in
secret about UFO stuff, like didyou hear, did you hear, that
they found something at GroomLake, or did you hear that
(05:43):
there's something going on atArea 51?
And it was all this gossipyhearsay, and that's the only way
you got information about thisstuff.
There was nothing on publictelevision.
There was nothing on publicradio, however, like some AM
channels started popping up.
This is like 1992, let's call it91, 92.
And so I would have to listenat midnight on an AM station to
(06:06):
get any information about UFOs.
There were books put out so youcould read some books, but let
me tell you it was very sociallyunacceptable to talk about,
think about, believe in ordiscuss anything UFO related.
I think that the other area,like the paranormal, was a
little more widely accepted,probably because they made a lot
of movies about it.
We had the Exorcist and we hadwhat was that other gross one
(06:30):
where they built their house onIndian land.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Poltergeist.
They made a couple of them.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, there was a lot of those kind of movies, but
you didn't see a lot of alienstuff back then in the 80s and
90s and then Steven Spielbergcame along.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Well, he did make a movie in the 70s I believe.
I think that was the late 70s,when he did Close Encounters of
the Third Kind.
Now, are you aware that the manthe only scientist the
government employed at that timeto work on an official
government project was in CloseEncounters of the Third Kind?
I did not know that.
Yeah, yeah, the scene where thealiens come down and all the
(07:13):
scientists are like walkingforward, you know, in that big
hangar, right, he's one of thescientists at the front of that
line and he was the guy that wasthe government-employed
scientist in Project Blue Book.
He's the guy that investigatedall those, so we'll get into
that.
Yeah, there's a terribly weavedweb when it comes to UFO stuff
(07:34):
and our government and our mediaLook.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
depending on how fun this episode gets, I'm probably
going to start busting out theAlex Jones impersonation.
At some point it's going tostart busting out the Alex Jones
impersonation.
At some point it's going toshow up Just be ready for it.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I love that guy man, I've never seen it.
I've only seen the little clipswhere he's saying crazy stuff
and people share it.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
They're turning the frogs gay.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Is he a UFO guy?
I've heard 25% of his stuff iscorrect.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Here's the thing.
Here's what I don't understand.
I don't understand how you'regoing to call anyone can call
the guy a kook.
He got the one thing reallyreally wrong, I'll give you that
.
But the fact that he calledSeptember 11th like four months
before it happened and it'srecorded Really so he called it.
He goes airplanes are going tohit the World Trade Center
towers.
They're going to blame Osamabin Laden.
(08:26):
We're going to invade theMiddle East.
And he called that in likeApril of 2001.
It was insane how.
That's a great question.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
How would you have?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
known that that's a very good question.
That is a good question.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
No, I don't.
I obviously.
I know he's in trouble forParkland shooting or something
right.
He said it was fake and theysued him and he lost and he owes
millions of dollars.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Dude it's over a billion, a billion now, yeah, so
they're railroading this guystraight up into bankruptcy.
I mean, his show's still on andeverything, yeah.
So essentially they found himguilty by contempt or I can't
remember the exact name of it,but either way, the court asked
him to produce something.
He couldn't produce it, so theyjust automatically found him
(09:13):
guilty.
So all the court proceedingsthat you saw on TV and online
and everything that wasn't a hey, are you guilty, that's a how
guilty are you is what thatentire whole thing was.
I watched the whole thing.
Uh, he had a couple of reallygood zingers and the judge was
like, yeah, you can't talk aboutthe clintons while you're on
the stand.
It was hysterical.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I was dying laughing during that whole thing I didn't
see any of it and I'm only likecursory aware of it because I
don't know.
I didn't realize he was likeprophetic.
I thought he was just like aguy who says like kind of
extreme things.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
No, he and even still like the Trump assassination
attempt.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
You know, a few weeks back in July he actually
predicted that gosh four or fivemonths ago where he's like're
gonna try to shoot him at arally, like so he's flat out was
calling this like and he wasstill statistically, that would
be like the, the one that wouldhappen, yeah, yeah.
So it's like, all right, you'renot exactly prophesying at that
point, like you're just saying,okay, statistically that's
going to be the best option aman is going to have a heart
attack today, like yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Someone's going to tie their shoes.
I just know it.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I wear Crocs.
Some of that stuff is hard tobelieve, but.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I'll check it out.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
If you say it's worth it, I'll check it out.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
He's interesting because whenever it comes to
paranormal so he's real big intoangels and demons, obviously,
but whenever it comes to thealien stuff and there's another
guy that's actually been onRogan called Bob Lazar, I don't
know if you're familiar with himor- not.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So Bob Lazar that show I told you about that was
on AM radio back in 1990, theywould interview Bob Lazar.
Nice, bob Lazar was a householdname to us weirdos that were
studying this stuff.
There you go, but it was likenobody believed.
The government said he wascrazy and a liar.
And so you hear in an am radioeven a believer is like in the
(11:11):
back of your mind like thiscould all be crap.
But now he's public, he's outthere, people are listening to
him, like it really happened,like he.
You know and this is blowing mymind because I grew up in an
environment where everyonethought he was a nut job crazy
person I was surprised he wasstill alive.
When I heard he came out, I'mlike, oh, they didn't kill this
guy, yet Not just him.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I mean, gosh, if you go back on Joe Rogan's channel
on his Spotify or whatever he'sstreaming on nowadays.
But if you go back on Rogan,he's had like Navy pilots on
there.
He's had like top-end militarybrass, where they're like yeah,
we don't know what this is, it'san unidentified aerial
phenomenon, but this thing ispill-shaped and it literally
will hit the water and maintainthe same speed with no splash,
(11:56):
with no, yeah, with no splash.
So, either way, they've gotlike radar of this stuff.
They've got recordings of thisstuff.
Oh yeah, um I.
I realize that you probablywant to be on here to be the
counter voice, but I'm probablygoing to be the biggest
proponent of all of this.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Just to be clear, Okay, that's good, that'll make
it a little less friction.
So you know, the thing is, thisis all happening in real time
right now, as we record.
There are government projectstoday that are investigating
these things right now in theUnited States and in other
(12:31):
countries, so this is no longerin the shadows.
Don't tune out, because we'retalking about things you think
are crazy.
Just listen in for a minute.
Listen to some real people talkabout some real things about
this topic.
We have a semi-professionalhere with us.
Uh, I don't know, can I callyou a professional?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
I've been doing this since 2019, so I mean, okay,
here we go.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Have you gotten paid to do a paranormal investigation
?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
we don't get paid.
We actually um donate.
So if a client wants to give usmoney, we have our own charity
that we put the money into andthen we go into any autism group
that needs money and we donateit to them.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
That's awesome.
Why autism?
My two kids are autistic Bothof your children, yep.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
How old are they?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Mm-hmm.
Yep, how old are they?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Two and nine, ten Nine.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
How on the spectrum are they?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Otis, she's, I think, on the lower Now my son.
He's up there.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Is he verbal?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
No, nonverbal, yeah, yeah up there.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Is he verbal, no, non-verbal.
Yeah, yeah, my daughter's sonis autistic and he's not verbal,
so I know what a challenge thatcan be for everybody.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah, yeah, when they don't communicate like with
words.
It's really hard and they'realready not super good at
communicating he's, he's gettinga little better with, uh,
showing us and, kind of like,dragging us to where he wants to
like, if he wants a bottle orsomething, he'll take us to the
kitchen.
We'll open the gate up andhe'll slam open the door and
grab his bottles and drink it.
So he's getting, he's showingus a little bit on how, what
(14:15):
like, what he wants, what heneeds does your daughter help
with the translating what hewants?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
well, I know she's only two she's away for the
summer, so, ah, okay, yeah, yeahright we even tried to learn
sign language for a bit yeah,yeah, yeah, my, my daughter has
had to do sign language,obviously not like full-on
american sign language, but theylearn enough to communicate
like food hungry you know.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah, we know a little bit, not too much, we
know a little bit that'sinteresting.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Um so, how did you wind up getting into this
paranormal areas?
You're, you're a young guy.
How old are you now?
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I am actually on monday.
I'll be 27 you're 27.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Okay, your masonic career should be easy to cover.
I was there for it.
We made you a Mason, a MasterMason, last year, right after.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Matt.
Me and Matt were raised up likea week.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
That's right.
A week apart.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Super close.
I was raised December 9th.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
I was raised December 16th yeah, yep, wow, week apart
.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, he's your, he's your elder in freemasonry.
You have to listen to him.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I know that's right, I mean not only that, you can
tell by the gray beard he's gotgoing on too.
He's pretty much an elder no,he's actually.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
He's 25.
He's younger than you.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Oh, is he, Is he?
I don't know if I believe that.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
That's every member of Turkey Creek, I believe,
turns gray within the first sixmonths.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Honestly yes, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
That's not a knock on Turkey Creek.
I love you guys.
I've never been to Step Foot inthe Lodge, so I can make fun of
you, I'll knock on Turkey Creekall day long, my guy.
It's like that's my family.
Only I can talk about my family.
Yeah, exactly no, you'reyounger than me, but you're
older than him.
You're in the middle here.
Oh yeah, I think you're bothmillennials.
(16:21):
I believe You're of the samegeneration.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
No, both millennials.
I believe You're of the samegeneration.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
No, I actually don't make the cut.
Well, you're very young, huh.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Millennials.
They cut it off at 96.
I was born in 97, so I didn'tmake it.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Oh, so you're in that in-between year that lost
generation.
What is it?
What are you?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Tell us Label yourself Gen Z, I believe.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Hang on a second second.
I'm looking it up.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Gen z yeah, gen z, or I gen, was born from 97 to 2010
I gen just sounds so muchcooler yeah, it's kind of like
saying uh, you know generation xso yeah, generation x is you
know, here we, I mean we'rewalking into things now.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Well, I'm just thinking from like WWE, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, yeah, all right .
So you're Baby Mason.
You were installed this year asthe Tyler of Sarasota Lodge.
You've been doing a great job.
I was at your installation.
This man carrying a, carrying abroad sword is a site to be
seen.
Go on a Sarasota Facebook pageand watch the photo of it
Carrying a sword like twice asbig as he is.
(17:31):
It's pretty bad-ass.
How has it been for you inFreemasonry so far in your short
career?
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I am not going to lie , I would not have done it any
other way.
It's been amazing, it's beenamazing, it's been amazing.
So, from the moment I firststepped in and signed a petition
to where I am at now, it's beena great journey.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I was his catechism instructor through all three of
his degrees.
Oh very nice.
I wasn't able to come back anddo his Master Mason catechism.
They kind of creeped that onein on me so I wasn't there.
I apologize.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
My forehead still hurts, by the way, chris, your
forehead.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, why, oh, I knocked you.
Yeah, yeah, I was also.
I played third base in hisMaster Mason degree.
And let me tell you, if you'venever seen me play third base,
you're really missing out.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
No, it's the scariest thing you'll ever see.
Chris gets so into that rolethat when you see him outside of
that lodge room you're like Idon't know if I want to mess
with this guy anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
He's a different person.
Man, I'm playing a character.
You know you got to get crazyeyes with it and everything.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I have seen two people play third base.
One is like this I mean oldfrail, like podiatrist, from, I
think, either like templeterrace or Hillsborough lodge,
but either way, like he got, hegot into it too.
But then the other one is ourcurrent DDGM, Roscoe Love, Right
Worshipful.
Roscoe Love, Now RightWorshipful, is like he's just a
(19:08):
grisly-looking dude, always gota cigar in his hand, but he's
got this wispy hair andeverything.
So what he did is he grabbed ashirt and rocked it back on the
forearms to where he had theperson off their feet.
This guy is like 70 somethingyears old, so it's like, and
he's like picking these dudes up.
I'm like Roscoe, put that boydown First off.
This is awesome.
I can do this.
(19:28):
Train me for that role.
That's what I want.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Well, I mean, imagine Chris is like what Six, chris
is like what?
6'2".
I don't know how much you weigh, I'm a 5'2", 5'3" guy and I
thought I was flying through theair when he just you were.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Well, it's like that is one of the toughest roles in
Freemasonry to play, because weare not to do rough and unseemly
conduct in our work, so we'renot supposed to roughhouse
people.
It's in the name.
The role calls for a little bitof roughhousing.
Yeah, by default.
So it's like the line there isreally hard to find in the right
(20:10):
way, because you can go too farand if you don't go far enough,
everybody's let down.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
It's like oh, I've heard, I've heard rumor that
back in the day, so supposedlylike back in the early to mid
1900s, turkey creek was actuallya two-story barn, like a horse
barn, and so I've heard rumorthat they actually used to throw
people out of the second floor.
Oh, my goodness for third baseand I'm like I would pay so much
(20:38):
money to see that.
Some guy just getting launchedout of a window.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Was there something in the bottom to?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
stop the fall.
If you have to do stun trainingwork before your degree, it's
not going to be good.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Looking like Michael J Fox just doing a Wilhelm
scream.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Hans Gruber falling off Nakatomi Tower, exactly
Yippee-ki-yatomi Tower.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Exactly, exactly, yippee-ki-yay EA.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Wow, I don't know how we got there.
Oh, we were talking about youbecoming a Mason.
Yeah, I'm a big fan.
Invite me.
I'm waiting for somebody to askme to come do some degree work,
so please invite me.
If you have a Master Masondegree, I can do lectures too.
I can be a multi-purpose tool.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
But call on me, look, honestly, I might do that,
because we start training ontuesday.
Now we're recording today'saugust 10th.
We start training on tuesday.
I have to sit in the east foran ea degree in october
excellent, yeah.
So it's like I've got less thantwo months to prepare for an EA
degree.
So our lodge we haven't donethis in the longest time, but
(21:42):
our lodge the way it used to beis that the senior deacon put on
the EA degrees, the juniorwarden put on the fellow craft
and the senior warden put on themaster mason.
We haven't done that in likegenerations at our lodge and so
Worshipful this year, daveWorshipful was like hey, by the
way, we're getting back to thatand I'm like I just got
installed.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Have mercy, sir.
You've started to blaze trails,and once that's trails blazing,
all you can do is put more fuelon it.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
You can't let off that gas man.
You got to keep going.
Just don't, don't remind me.
You'll have a great time.
But the thing and this is thethis is the, I guess, kind of
frustrating part is like ourlodge is so rusty.
Is that like?
I'm like, hey, by the way, Ineed a senior deacon for an ea
degree, like obviously, that'slike the most talking is going
to come from that role.
I'm like, hey, I need a, I needa senior deacon.
And like nobody's raising theirhands and I'm like I do not
(22:35):
want to have to call on anotherlodge to have a senior deacon.
I really want it to be one ofour guys.
Yeah, so we'll see what happenswith it.
We've got three.
We got three guys that we'regoing to initiate in October,
nice.
So it's going to be three EAs.
We're going to track them thewhole way through.
I'm the catechism instructortoo, so we'll see how that goes.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
You just keep filling up your plate don't you?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
This is what pump priming a lodge looks like.
One person got to do all thework to get it going.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
That's how it works.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
And then you'll initiate guys that will see how
hard you're working and they'llbe impressed by it and they'll
want to join in and you'll havean army of people.
You already got a crew behindyou.
You got a great situation rightnow.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Brother Stone.
Look, if anybody at TurkeyCreek wants to be mad at me for
the seeming hostile takeoverthat this younger generation is
doing, blame the guy on thispodcast right now, chris Burns.
You as soon as I got, I think Iwas a fellow craft.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yay, more haters.
Thank you as soon as I got.
I think I was a fellow.
Yeah, I think I.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I think I was a fellow craft and I was talking
about how, like our worshipfulat the time was doing catechism
instruction and like I didn'tthink it was proper and all this
other stuff.
And you go, Matt I think it wasthe first time we ever talked
you were like, Matt, buildyourself a, a crew of people,
and those are your guys, andthat's what we've done.
We've got like six dudes.
Now you're going to really getstuff done.
(24:00):
Yeah, We've got like six orseven dudes to where and like,
and even that plan of actionthat you and I need to talk
about here on the podcast.
But even with that plan ofaction, we're going to have like
seven years of fresh masters.
If we don't bring in anybodyelse, If we bring in these
additional three now, we're upto 10.
There you go.
So it's like all right, we'regoing to have 10 years of fresh
(24:23):
leadership at a lodge.
You're going to fundamentallychange that lodge, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Make it modern, make it alive again with Freemasonry.
Not that it's not, not that theguys aren't good Masons, but is
it alive with Freemasonry?
Are people trying to be goodMasons?
Are they trying to be betterpeople?
Are they trying to be goodMasons?
Are they trying to be betterpeople?
Are they trying to do charitywork?
Are they trying to help eachother learn and grow Like that's
how you know it's alive in yourlodge.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I just want to repaint the place because we
have this like burnt orangebathroom.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Don't talk to me about the color of your lodge.
It's not as bad as the pinklodge room.
I'll say that.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
But it is a burnt orange or like baby poop style
color bathroom.
It's insane.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, baby poop.
I haven't seen that in a while.
But thanks for the visual.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, I think I sent you a picture of the toilets
that I had replaced, where I waslike, oh yeah, another life in
the day of a master Mason.
I thought that was just thetoilets in your house.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
I had no idea.
All right, mikey, mikey,mikey's our guest here, come on
out.
So you're new Mason and you'regetting your feet wet and I come
to find out that you have aparanormal podcast.
I can't remember how I foundout, but there's no way I was
letting that one go.
As soon as I found out, I'veactually, since I've relocated
(25:38):
to South Carolina, had someinteresting experiences here and
even sent some photos to MikeLike, hey, what do you think
about this?
Is this weird?
You know, you kind of helped meout with some logical
explanations that made me feellike, okay, that could be, that
could be.
It could be a reflection offthe window.
You know, could be, I'm okaywith that.
Could be a reflection off thewindow, it could be.
(25:58):
I'm okay with that answer.
Not everything is unexplainable.
Most of the stuff and I don'twant to talk for you, but I feel
like most of the stuff that youlook at you can probably
explain, yes, or come up with alogical explanation.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
If you can't explain it, it could be this so what we
say is, my wife is actually thebare bad news in the paranormal
field, because when someoneemails us or they send us
pictures on our Facebook oranything like that, she goes and
she analyzes the pictures andshe has a whole software where
(26:36):
she puts pictures and videoslike that and she can see if
those pictures were messed within a way.
So if they mess with it andthey change it, they edit it or
anything like that, she'll beable to see it in that software.
And then she'll be like, hey,this picture was messed with,
it's not authentic.
We can't really go off of thispicture that you sent us.
(26:59):
So I mean, if you have a realpicture, can you send us the
picture that's not edited?
Or, when we get the board,pictures.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
That's got to be a red flag, though, when you get a
photo from someone and they'veedited it.
I'd be like, okay, you'rewasting my time.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Yeah, usually that's what happens.
We get a lot of people mad atus, but we got to do what we got
to do to make sure it's realstuff.
We can't just go in.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
You're not there to confirm their suspicions.
You're there to tell them whatyou think the truth is.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Yeah, and we get orb pictures, orb pictures, orb
pictures.
Usually they're just bugs ordust in your house, so you know
how you move around.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
So clean your house, people.
That's what we're saying.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Yeah, you move around and you see dust and stuff
flying around, little particlesof whatever just flying around
everywhere and people takepictures of it and they're just
like, oh my God, I caughtsomething.
They're like, no, that's just afly in your house.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Oh my God, I caught something they're like no,
that's just a fly in your house.
I've seen that even on like bigscientific level studies like
Skinwalker Ranch.
I'm a huge Skinwalker Ranch fan.
I'm going to mention it a loton the show.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Blind Frog Ranch is another good one.
Which one Blind Frog Ranch?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Blind Frog Ranch, there's another ranch out there
called Bradshaw Ranch, which hasgot a lot of weird stuff going
on.
But they actually do a lot ofrecording on different kinds of
technology LIDAR and radar andthey measure gravimetric stuff
and a lot of satellite geo stuffand they'll record something
(28:38):
and they'll be like, oh my god,that thing's moving at like six
million miles an hour.
And then after they analyze itthey're like, oh, it's a fly.
Uh, because a fly at that?
You know, at that, if he'scloser to the camera you think
it's far.
You do the math, you're like,oh my god, it's going eight
million miles an hour.
No, it's a fly right in frontof the camera.
So it even happens, evenhappens on the high end of these
(29:00):
investigations.
But you know you lose allcredibility if you're not
willing to admit the obvious.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
And that's like how we were talking before.
You get these shows on TV thathave been Hollywood eyes, as you
call it.
It that fake a lot of theirevidence, as we call it,
evidence that they pick up oreven noises that they hear.
They're just like, oh, I heardsomething and it's just bob
(29:27):
around the corner making noiseswith pots and pans.
Yeah, you know, and they, they,they always see, that's what
they always show on the on theshows.
It's just something, someonethat faked it and it gives us a
bad name, because theneverybody's like, oh, these
paranormal investigators,they're not legit, they're not
anything fun and it's for thepeople that are actually trying
(29:48):
to do it to help out otherpeople yeah, which it's, I think
.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Because we were talking about this with matt, I
was like, oh, matt's gonna beour straight man.
He's like like, not me.
I got my own experiences andthat's the only thing that can
change someone's mind is theyhave to have a personal
experience.
It doesn't matter how much youshow them or tell them, until
they have something happen tothem, they're not going to be a
believer.
And we talk about, well, mygeneration.
(30:15):
You literally couldn't talk toanybody about this not your
parents, not your sisters andyour brothers, nothing.
Because the stigma was so hardsocially on you being a weirdo
that you just couldn't talkabout it.
You were literally at risk ofbeing called crazy if you
legitimately believed any ofthis stuff was happening.
But now I think it's a littlemore acceptable.
(30:37):
There are TV shows all over theplace now.
There are government agenciesinvestigating some of these
things.
However, I really do believethat some of that stigma still
exists in our society, where youare looked at as a little bit
of a nut job or crazy person.
If you talk about it like in aserious way, it's, it's still
there, it's still around we, we,actually we get in a serious
(30:57):
way.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
It's, it's still there, it's still around we, we,
actually we get in a lot everyonce in a while yeah it's
interesting because we're livingin this time.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
I would argue where?
Specifically in?
I'm not, I'm not even going tosay american culture, I'm going
to say in white culture,specifically in white culture,
uh, here in the united states,where it's like no, you're the
crazy one if you believe thatstuff.
But if you look at othercultures like Central and South
America, africa, other, cultureshere that are on this planet
(31:25):
and throughout time.
It's weird that we don't believethese things, that we don't
believe in the supernatural,that we don't believe in the
spiritual.
If you go down to Mexico or yougo down to Central America, it
is just rife with NativeAmerican culture, dream catchers
, those sorts of things.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, I mean, look at any culture going back to the
beginning of any recordedhistory, that we have the
Sumerians, and you're going tosee tales of insane things
happening to those people.
Are they telling stories, arethey documenting things?
It was a great effort to recordsomething.
Back then we're talking aboutchiseling into stone.
(32:06):
Okay, so people didn't just sitin their bed and chisel into
stone at night for fun, like ifit got written, it was pretty
important.
So either that was a veryimportant cultural story to them
or they were recordingsomething that they saw or a
tradition, tradition they hadheard.
You know, carried through time.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Well, they say every what is it fairy?
Tale folklore has.
Every fairy tale of folklorehas a little bit of truth in it.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
It's not all of it, but there's always a little bit
of truth in those fairy talestories like the big thing for
me, like the more I'm able tosee the bigger picture of all
this stuff, and we shouldprobably start at the beginning,
not at the end.
But to me, now we can lookthrough time at all of these
different cultures and thestories are so similar.
(32:52):
They all kind of line up insuch a similar way.
They all kind of line up insuch a similar way.
It's almost impossible todiscount that there's a
continuous thing happeningthrough time, because everyone's
documenting it in their own wayand it kind of all lines up
with each other's stories.
You can convict a murderer onless than that in their modern
culture.
(33:14):
So it's like we have plenty ofevidence.
It's just still, I think,discounted and a lot of even
mainstream scientists don't wantto.
They're coming out more andmore because they're discovering
things like the big tech andsome of these really old
underground tunnels that havebeen connected in the Turkey, in
the area over there, where theyhad underground society that we
(33:34):
didn't know about 5,000 yearsago, 8,000 years ago, and it's
really hard to dispute that.
So scientists are struggling todeal with the fact that science
is matching up to what we'vebeen saying for decades.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Well even still and it gets a little more fun than
that.
But if you know so, I'm, youknow it's well documented on
this show that I'm a Christian.
I profess a faith in Christ.
If you read the Bible cover tocover, cover, then you believe
in the supernatural and youbelieve in the spiritual like
and so that's the part that hasalways amazed me is like,
whenever you talk about, like,demon possession around
christians, they like pearlclutch.
They're like what do you mean?
What do you mean spirits?
(34:09):
And it's like no, look, if youwant to read throughout either
the old testament or the newtestament, I can point you to
those things.
You know, know, and I evenpulled up one that we're
probably going to get into herein a little bit but it's like
look, even Christ had to dealwith demon possessed people.
You know, in the Old Testament,saul actually had a witch
summon a dead prophet.
So it's like, if you believethe Bible cover to cover, you
(34:30):
believe in these things.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
It was pretty popular in the culture.
Your stories also, as you saidin your book, are kind of lining
up with what everyone else issaying.
It's just the labels aredifferent we're talking about
demons or we're talking aboutangels, whereas they're talking
about shadow people or someother explanation for that same
phenomena, but with a differentname and a different kind of
(34:53):
like setting for it.
Yeah, the facts remain the same, like people saw stuff that
other people couldn't see.
People heard stuff that otherpeople couldn't hear.
People observed things thatshouldn't have been observable
in nature and they told thestory and it wound up into the
Bible.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
We fell into a.
So the first investigation thatwe had, where we decided to
cross over both paranormal andUFO, we put two things together.
So we would get reports fromthe clients that they'll see
this eight foot tall shadowfigure with a top hat on and
(35:30):
then they'll see this littlegirl with a pink dress on.
We're like, oh, that soundsparanormal, that's you know,
something sounds weird yeah yeah, it's a weird thing eight foot
guy with a tiny little girl witha pink dress, that's.
And they're both shadow figures.
Yeah, um, we ended up talkingto a professional ufo guy.
(35:52):
He's been on all over discoverychannel with the tv shows and
all that and he goes.
Yeah, when we go to abducteecases, that's usually what they
see is an eight-foot shadowfigure guy with a top hat or a
little girl with a pink dress on.
That's where we decided to justswitch our roles into just not
(36:15):
paranormal and we're like oh,let's try to see if the ufo
stuff works out now that'sinteresting.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
So, like I said, when I grew up, you were a ufo guy,
you were a paranormal guy or youwere a bigfoot guy, but it
seems like in today, a lot ofthis is getting rolled into one
big category of like strangethings or high strangeness.
(36:44):
I think you call it right Somehigh strangeness is happening
here and in modern times.
I think the best example ofthis is Skinwalker Ranch.
People probably aren't awarethat the government program that
just became public is thegovernment agency that was
(37:05):
involved in investigatingSkinwalker Ranch.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Okay, give me an elevator pitch on Skinwalker
Ranch.
I've never heard of this before.
Are you serious?
Yeah, dude, I don't watch TV.
I'm that type of a nerd.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Skinwalker Ranch came to prominence in the 60s.
There was a rancher who wasreporting losing a lot of cattle
to mutilations at the time, andso they actually did
investigations.
And it wasn't just on his ranch, which is like this huge ranch
in Utah, it's at the Uinta Basin, which is like a big, it's a
giant bowl in Utah and they'relike in the bowl with nothing
(37:42):
but mountains and hills aroundthem.
And so police investigated.
Everybody couldn't explain whatwas mutilating these cows
because the cow, these giantcows, would show up with no
blood anywhere and they wouldhave surgical removal of the eye
or the tongue or the anus, likethere would be.
It wasn't like an animal noddedsomething and made a big mess.
(38:04):
Something like scalpel or lasercut chunks out of these cows
and drained them of blood andleft them there.
So either they were mutilatedsomewhere else and dropped off
here.
But I don't know who at thattime would have had the
resources or time to run aroundwith these large animals,
killing them and messing them upand dropping them off in remote
(38:27):
areas where they wouldn't befound for like a couple of days.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
So the blood in the eye is weird, but as far as the
rest of it is concerned, thehind end of a cow if you watch a
coyote or a wolf, that'sactually the first part that
it'll eat of an animal wheneverit makes a kill.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
So it'll start there and work its way through.
You can absolutely tell thedifference between an animal
eating the ass of a cow and aborehole being made into a cow.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
that's like completely clean and circular it
looks like there's a thingabout it on Netflix.
I might have to watch thiswhenever I get home.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
There's several things, don't worry, I'll
recommend you the right thingsto watch.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Thanks, I'm just telling you this is where it
started.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
It started with those reports from this rancher,
right, that's the only thingthat was public.
However, the rancher wasreporting a lot of other things
that weren't made public, likeparanormal things were happening
in his property.
There's a very popular storywhere he was so terrified of his
cattle.
He was going to leave the ranch, but he was afraid to leave
them.
So he put all the cattle in apen in the front of his ranch
(39:27):
where he could see them when hepulled in and he was so
uncomfortable.
He came home early to check onthe cattle we're talking about
five male bulls, okay and whenhe got there they were missing,
and so he searched the propertyand there was a little shed near
where the cattle were beingkept.
All five cattle were crammedside by side into that shed
(39:51):
right, and he opens the door andthey're standing there
motionless, almost like they'rehypnotized, and within seconds
they snap out of it and theystart beating the crap out of
the shed and beat it to hell,and they actually managed to
squeeze out eventually of theshed.
So this got enough attention,these kinds of stories got
enough local attention that abillionaire who is interested in
(40:15):
the paranormal bought the ranchnamed Bigelow Bigelow Now, if
you look named Bigelow BigelowNow, if you look up Bigelow he
owned an aerospace company.
This is how he got wealthy, andhe had a very high level of
interest in aliens specifically.
So in his youth he thought I'mgoing to spend all my money
figuring out this alien thingand I'm going to build
(40:35):
spaceships that are going to beinterstellar and I'm going to
become the richest man in theuniverse.
These are the thoughts in hishead.
So he buys this ranch wherethere's a lot of alien activity,
right?
This, of course, is before ElonMusk was a thing.
Yes, Way before.
Way before he bought the ranchwith a co-effort from the US
government.
So it was 50% owned by BigelowAerospace and 50% owned by an
(41:00):
American government entity andtogether they formed a
government agency and I can tellyou the name of that.
Somebody can tell you the nameof that.
This company investigatedSkinwalker Ranch for over 20
years.
They brought in physicists, theybrought in botanists, they
brought in psychologists becausethey thought what these people
(41:23):
did a thorough investigation.
They thought maybe the plantsare creating hallucinogenic
properties and people are justtripping balls Like.
They looked at every angle andwhat happened was they all went
mad because they recordedparanormal activity, cryptid
activity, interdimensional,apparently activity and UFO,
(41:46):
traditional UFO activity allhappening on this ranch and they
can tell you they have reportsof.
They would buy their groceries,put them away in the pantry,
turn around, get something andall their groceries are back out
on the table.
So you've got that kind ofparanormal activity, or they'd
lose something and it would showup in a tree somewhere like 50
(42:07):
feet in a tree, like two dayslater after they couldn't find
it.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
I mean that actually makes sense.
Go ahead.
Imagine being late for work andyou find your keys on the tree.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, that actually makes sense, Cause there's
actually, um, I think it's herein the United States, but
there's actually differentplaces you can go to to go on a
DMT trip and so dimethyltrexate,and so that's where a lot of
people they think that a lot ofthe stories from you know the
Bible came from is that wheneveryou get on to dimethyltrexate,
you can now blur the linesbetween dimensions and you can
(42:39):
see other things or otherentities.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I think mushrooms are probably the more like natural
way that people go about doingthat, because it has the exact
same properties of ofhallucinogenic kind of effects.
It's really opening your mind tothings that you wouldn't
normally be open to.
It's removing barriers thatyour mind has in place and
(43:05):
people call that they're seekingto kill their own ego.
So when you go to a therapist,you're essentially dealing with
all the problems that your egocreates for you why you don't
communicate right, why you getangry about things.
This is all related to your ego, and so psychologists take
decades to break down thebarriers of your ego to get to
what's really happening.
Because you protect yourself.
(43:25):
Your ego does.
But you can take a drug likeDMT or you can take psychedelic
mushrooms and your ego meltsaway 100%, completely within
hours, and so they're looking atusing this.
They actually put people in aroom with a psychologist and
they do sessions while they'reunder psychedelic drugs and they
make progress that would takethem 15 years to make by going
(43:47):
to nightly meetings, you know,for an hour at a time, because
they can totally break throughthe ego and get right to the
root of what your problems are.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
So you heard it here first folks.
Chris is going to be sponsoringa Masonic mushroom trip that we
are going to gather a wholebunch of master masons together.
We're going to go on a mushroomand DMT trip sponsored by Chris
Burns.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
I will pay for the drugs.
However, we have to have aresponsible medical professional
there to help us.
That's the key.
It's not for fun, it's actuallyfor medical treatment, and so
people always try toself-medicate, and I think a lot
of people do it throughtripping like that because they
(44:31):
can get to the root of whatreally is going on in their life
.
And also people say that ourdream states can remove our ego.
So I don't know if you guyshave ever had an experience of a
dream speaking to you aboutreality.
I have my first wife.
I'm on my third wife, my firstwife.
I had this horrible dream offinding a guy's card in her
(44:55):
purse.
I knew exactly where it was inmy dream.
I didn't know what it was, butI knew it was scary and bad.
So I woke up, ran to her purse,looked and there was a card of
a guy who is a roller derby guyand apparently she had been
going after work to this rollerderby place and hitting on this
guy and they've been meeting.
And I uncovered this wholeaffair that was going on.
(45:18):
Scandal, chris, scandal,because I had a weird dream that
like told me I needed to lookin her purse for a cart.
And that is probably the firsttime I thought okay, this is not
cool, because my dream affectedreal life.
I shouldn't have known that, Ishouldn't have known that, I
shouldn't have known to lookthere.
(45:40):
So I had a personal experiencethat didn't line up with what
reality was taught to me growingup.
So my mind got open to otherthings.
I thought, well, this ispossible.
What else is possible?
Speaker 2 (45:54):
So my mind got open to other things.
I thought, well, if this ispossible, what else is possible?
So this type of stuff actuallythis might come as a surprise to
you, but I was actually raisedaround this type of stuff.
So my family on my dad's sideis actually from like Backwoods
Georgia, backwoods Georgia,backwoods Georgia, like family
tree, has some branches thatshouldn't connect Backwoods
Georgia, gotcha, yeah.
So it's like our family treekind of looks like a palm tree.
(46:18):
So, having said all that, mygrandmother on my dad's side I
don't know what she practiced,but I would almost call it like
Wiccanism, you know, somewhere,somewhere around there.
So she called my dad, my momand dad met here in in Tampa
Florida, and so she calls my dadand they called him Bo and they
(46:40):
and she said Bo, I had a dreamabout Denise Now Denise is my
mom's name and he goes.
Really, what was the dream?
And he drove a, him and herdrove a Datsun B210GX.
They're very specific on that.
They bought it for like 500bucks and she goes, she got into
a wreck in the Datsun and myolder brother in this dream died
(47:02):
in this dream and she goes andthe only thing that I remember
is that there was a yellowclothes basket in the back of
the car that was laying next tohis body and so dad got home.
Whenever dad got home, aftertalking to her, he walks out and
he goes, hey, uh, you know is,is there a clothes basket in the
car?
She's like, yeah, I went to thelaundromat today and he walks
out to the car and there's ayellow clothes basket in the
(47:23):
back of the car.
So he immediately took it outand he's in that car.
Wow, so yeah, my family is likefrom the place of Georgia of
like you go out to the middle ofthe woods, like no pathways to
get there, you start a fire andyou start playing a guitar or
picking a banjo and then peoplejust start walking out of the
(47:44):
woods.
That's my extended family inGeorgia.
Yeah, honestly.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
This probably was based on them, sure do got a
pretty mouth boy, so you havepersonal lifetime experience
with this stuff.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Yes, Do you have any personal, personal experiences
with this?
I know why you're asking that,chris.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
I'm just asking because you're a believer, and
everybody I know that believesin anything out of the ordinary
only believes because they had apersonal experience.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
So this is the OK.
So I'm a firm believer thatdreams can be interpreted.
Dreams can tell the future.
I mean, we have the word dejavu for a reason, so this is not
something that is uncommon.
Now, I had an experience, and ifI get emotional during this,
(48:37):
you're going to have to cut thisout.
So, for context, for people whodon't know, my dad passed away
from complications with cancerabout 15 years ago, and so he
passed away July 29th 2009, andI think it was mid August.
We're freaking out, right,because my dad is the license
holder of the business.
He was the key pillar in ourbusiness.
(48:59):
Everything in our family.
Dad was the cornerstone.
So we're all freaking outbecause we've only got 30 days
before county and state aregoing to come in and shut our
business down.
So I have a dream, and it's.
It's one of those dreams whereyou don't just your head hits
the pillow.
You wake up, you know a fewminutes later and you're like,
(49:20):
oh, I have this faint memory ofsomething that happened.
No, I experienced all six hourswith my dad and it was weird
because I picked up dad in mytruck.
This is in the dream by.
Up dad in my truck.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
This is in the dream by the way I picked up my dad in
my truck.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
I drove a 07 Toyota Tundra.
We got in the truck at LakelandRegional Hospital.
We drove all the way down I-4.
For those here in the localarea, you're going to know what
I'm talking about.
We got off at I-4 in BranchForbes, turned around and drove
back and that trip took sixhours.
We talked about everything.
He told me about my don't judgeme.
(49:55):
We talked about.
Here's the thing I haven't toldthis story to people, so, like
it's, it's kind of messing withme a little bit.
So he told me about my youngerbrother.
He told me about my mom.
He told me about all kinds ofstuff.
But this is the part thatfreaked me out.
He goes Matt, here's what Iwant you to do Tomorrow whenever
(50:17):
you get back to the office.
I want you to go down to thecounty and I want you to talk to
this one specific guy.
He goes.
I want you to talk to this onespecific guy, explain the
situation to him and he's goingto get this figured out.
Also, I want you to go talk tothis builder, this one specific
guy, and I want you to talk tothis executive over at this
builder.
And I'm like I don't even knowthese people's names.
(50:38):
I've never heard these people'snames before.
Now, fast forward.
I wake up.
Oh sorry, the end of the dream.
The end of the dream was as youwalk into Lakeland Regional,
there's the two doors at the ERdepartment.
Where you walk in, there's areceptionist, there's elevators
and then there's a back hallway.
I didn't know this, but theback hallway is where they take
(50:58):
all the dead bodies to.
I had no idea.
I only found that out later.
And so dad walks in and dadwalks down that hallway, right
by the elevators, just to theleft of the elevators.
Anybody at Lakeland Regional isgoing to freak out whenever I
tell them this.
And there's two figures thatare standing on both sides of
this hallway and I'm followingdad into this hallway.
(51:19):
They both stick out their arms.
So, like you know, the guy onthe right sticks out his right
arm, guy on the left sticks outhis left arm and there's a gold
brace.
There's a gold like brace ontheir arms.
Weirdest thing ever like a yeah, yeah.
And it's gold and like.
They're hooded right so I can'tsee their face.
All I see is a hand and a goldbrace on their arm and I'm like,
hey, my, my dad's going backthere.
(51:42):
I want to go.
I want to go back there with mydad.
Don't judge me, chris, it's toolate for that.
I know Right, um, and they go,you will go with him, but not
yet.
It's not your time.
And all this happened in yoursix-hour dream, in my six-hour
dream, I kid you not.
I wake up the next day.
I go down to the county, I talkto that guy, I call the guy at
(52:02):
the builder.
Everything just clicked.
We got a temporary license thatgave us an additional 45 days
to get my license transferredover.
The like was superunderstanding about everything
and like walked me through awhole bunch of their processes.
It was one of the weirdestfreaking things ever.
And so whenever people are like, oh, you know, I don't believe
in communing with the dead, Idid, and it was my dad.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
Well.
So see, this ties into everysingle culture since human
history was recorded.
Christians will say you spoketo an angel, or your dad right.
Other cultures will say thatthat was your guardian.
Other cultures will say that'syourself.
You already knew this.
You manifested it in a shape,in a manner that you would trust
(52:49):
, so that you would do the thingthat needed to be done.
But you knew it all the wholetime because you're connected to
it.
I mean, I don't want to get toowacky on you, but this is very
common in every culture and theyall have their way of
explaining it.
But when you have a personalexperience and I have a personal
experience, and Mikey has apersonal experience you can't
tell me that I didn't experiencewhat I experienced.
You can say other stuff isn'treal, but I know mine's not.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
It is real.
And not only that, but ifyou're listening to this and
you're a professing Christian, Iwould encourage you to go to 1
Samuel 28.
Are you cool if I read thisshort little passage?
Yeah, so this is King Saul.
King Saul summons a medium ofEndor, or some translations call
it the witch of Endor.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Isn't that where the Ewoks came from in Return of the
Jedi?
Speaker 2 (53:36):
I'm pretty sure it's a Lord of the Rings reference.
But yeah, let's go with whatyou said.
Okay, but either way, hedisguises himself.
King Saul disguises himself andhe wants to talk to Samuel.
And so, 1 Samuel 28, he'stalking to the witch.
In this point he says Saulvowed to her by the Lord, saying
as the Lord lives, nopunishment shall come upon you
(53:57):
for this thing, for summoningthis dead guy.
Then the woman said who shall Ibring up for you?
And he said bring up Samuel forme, the prophet Samuel.
When the woman saw Samuel, shecried out with a loud voice and
the woman spoke to Saul, sayingwhy have you deceived me?
For you are Saul.
The king said to her do not beafraid.
What do you see?
And the woman said to Saul Isee a divine being coming out of
(54:20):
the earth.
He said to her what is it?
What is his form?
And she said an old man iscoming up and he is wrapped with
a robe.
And Saul knew that it wasSamuel and he bowed his face to
the ground and did homage.
So it's like if you're aChristian, you believe in this
crap, whether you want to admitit or not.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
It's a little well.
A lot of Christians aren'taware of a lot of things that
exist in the Bible because youdon't talk about them at Sunday
at church, you know we talkabout demon possession that
Jesus cast out.
So yeah, let's have theseconversations.
Yeah, jesus cast out.
So yeah, let's have theseconversations.
Yeah, yeah, and I think I thinkpretty like I talk about a lot.
(55:01):
My wife's family is veryreligious and everything to them
is a demon or an angel.
So if we talk about aliens,they're demons.
Unless they help somebody, thenit's an angel.
So they kind of categorize itinto their vernacular that they
can understand.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
So they kind of categorize it into their
vernacular that they canunderstand.
Yes and no.
I mean because you can havedemons that are helpful, because
they want you to be neutral.
They don't want you to pursuethe things that are of God, so
they want to make youcomfortable, and so, to our
human eyes, that's them beinghelpful.
No, they want you comfortable,so that way you're not working
for the kingdom.
Speaker 1 (55:30):
Yeah, and you know it's a sad thing, but for humans
, like some of our greatestthings come out of tragedy and
negative things.
I mean you never I never met aninteresting person that didn't
have hard times in theirbackground.
And anybody that I met that wasextremely wealthy and grew up
(55:59):
that way is totally messed up inthe head and not generally
going to be a good person.
You have to go through crap.
It kind of is what makes youinto a better person.
Coming out of that, the otherside and having a little more
respect for other people andthings I think is part of the
process.
Pain is part of the process ofbecoming a better person.
But I want to talk to Mikeyabout what he's doing today.
But now that I know that youdon't know the background of
this, I just want to brieflygive you the cliff notes of how
(56:21):
we got to where we're at.
Yeah, please, okay, everyone'sheard of Roswell, right?
Yeah, okay, roswell is whatstarted the public's knowledge
about all this stuff going on,and the government actually had
a project called Project Sign in1948, which you probably never
heard of.
It was established by the AirTechnical Service Command and
(56:45):
they were investigating atWright-Patterson Field Air Force
in Ohio claims of things thatwere strange in the sky.
That project led into agovernment project called
(57:05):
Project Grudge, which formallyended in 1949 and directly
followed Project Sign and was aneven bigger look into the whole
UFO.
What's going on?
Because people are seeingthings phenomenon by the Air
Force.
That led into Project Blue Book.
Now I'm sure you've heard ofProject Blue Book at least,
right.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
I have not.
The only blue project I'mfamiliar with is Blue Beam, but
that hasn't happened yet.
Blue Beam, blue Beam.
We'll get into it after this,okay.
Speaker 1 (57:31):
Project Blue Book's a pretty well-known government
project because it was so public.
They took thousands of UFOreports from the general public
and they put a committee ofpeople together to investigate
it on behalf of the US Air Force.
And so they assigned onescientist to the group who was
not a member of the military,named Hynek, and Hynek was the
(57:53):
resident genius.
So he had to go around, listento everybody's stories, and he
was approaching this from ascientific perspective in the
beginning, and so he was able toexplain away most of what
people would bring forward.
But out of the thousands ofreports there was a few hundred
that he couldn't explain.
So when he would have internalreports with the US government,
(58:15):
they would tell him make it goaway.
And he'd be like I'm doingscience.
And they'd be like no, you'reworking for the government.
And so he was forced to givecrazy reports.
So there were the most popularone that everyone knows about
Multiple people saw an object,an orb-type object, in the sky
(58:36):
at night and it was movingerratically, which is a common
report these days, but in thosedays it wasn't.
So they sent Hynek and the teamout.
He interviewed everybody, hefound all the witnesses to be
totally credible and he reportedto the government we really
don't know what this is, we needto put more resources on this.
And they gave him the answer.
(58:57):
So he had to go on public TVand report that it was swamp gas
.
And he had to report that swampgas can cause the air to
spontaneously combust and it canlook like a ball and it can
move around.
And they had this scientist outthere.
Now he's just a show pony forthe government.
And so he started to get prettyuncomfortable with the whole
(59:18):
thing after a few years becausehe kind of switched his thinking
.
He's like there's reallysomething going on here.
He talked to so many peoplethat were totally credible and
things he saw that he couldn'texplain, like magnetic readings
at the site or radioactiveisotopes at a site where people
said they saw something.
He would record this stuff, seethat there was bad.
There was legitimate physicalevidence to back up the stories
(59:40):
these people are saying.
And then he'd have to publiclycome up with a crazy explanation
that would make it go away.
And we listened to it.
I heard this stuff on the newsat the time and I I remember
thinking it's all a bunch ofcrap, like all these people are
hoaxers and they're all tryingto get their five minutes of
fame.
And it did go away.
So the government actuallyreleased a report to the public
(01:00:03):
called the Condon Report, andthat report is given by a US
military person who basicallysays there's nothing here.
We're shutting the program down.
There's nothing worth lookingat, there's nothing of US
interest, defense interest oranything here.
All of this stuff is a bunch ofhokey pokey.
So they basically canceled thatproject and this is the end of
(01:00:25):
the government's involvement inanything paranormal.
Officially, no one ever hearsabout it again.
It becomes a culture of you'recrazy or you're a nut job.
This is proven to be false.
Anybody that thinks it is crazyand it dies.
Until Skinwalker Ranch happens,the UF government forms the All
(01:00:47):
Domain Anomaly ResolutionOffice in conjunction with
Bigelow, and they buy a piece ofland and investigate it for
over 20 years Now.
All the documentation thegovernment did is on video.
It's in multiple videos.
They have audio of it.
They have all this informationand so does Bigelow.
(01:01:09):
But Bigelow worked for thegovernment, with the government.
He cannot release anything heknows as long as he's alive.
It's all got to stay completelyprivate.
Bigelow sold the propertybecause his wife died and he
blamed Skinwalker Ranch for hiswife's death.
There's an effect called thehitchhiker effect.
So if you're around thesestrange things happening and you
(01:01:32):
go home, strange things happento you in your home.
They call it the hitchhikereffect.
And he was experiencing shadowfigures.
He was experiencing time loss.
He was experiencing strangelights that would follow periods
of fear when they were sleepingat night a feeling of being
watched.
Sleeping at night, a feeling ofbeing watched.
And his wife actually died of aheart attack.
(01:01:53):
And he attributes that to allof the stuff that they brought
home with them from hisinvestigations at Skinwalker
Ranch.
It wasn't just him.
There were other scientists andgovernment officials that were
scared for their familiesbecause of what was happening to
them in their homes, so theyliterally sold this property and
stopped the investigation.
And the other thing was theycould never get solid proof
(01:02:14):
Anything that happened.
They could never get it tohappen again in the same way it
happened the first time.
It would always be somethingdifferent the next time and it
was driving them crazy.
So they might see a UFO in thesky and a glowing orb shedding
lights, and the next nightthere'd be shadow men or a
lizard guy or some giant animalmaking tracks and it was, like
(01:02:36):
always, something totallydifferent, totally unrelated,
seemingly from a completelydifferent kind of like you know
discipline of science that itwould take to even study it.
So he sold the ranch to aprivate real estate mogul in
Utah who then made the onecondition when he sold it was
you have to continue research onthe property.
So he can't turn it into avacation destination, he can't
(01:03:00):
make it like a touristattraction.
So he made it into a TV show onNetflix.
He hired a team of scientists.
He hired one guy who had beenknown to work with the
government in various projectsand he started investigating
skinwalker ranch publicly.
And they release all theirfindings.
A lot of it, the best parts theyput into the show, obviously,
(01:03:22):
but the rest of it they'reworking with universities and
you know they I mean they'veuncovered stuff and sent it to
be studied and they get theresults from labs, and so a lot
of this is well documented.
And so they find out that theguy they hired was actually
working for a new governmentagency unbeknownst to them.
So the same organization thathad owned Skinwalker Ranch hired
(01:03:47):
a guy named Travis, who is aphysicist, to get on that team.
He was their guy at the newgovernment agency, but they were
not contracted with this realestate guy, so they embedded one
of their guys in his show andit wasn't until the second or
third season he stepped downfrom the job and it was now
(01:04:07):
public that he was the directorover there and they were taken
aback like you're what?
We were letting you in on allof our stuff and you were a
government agent the whole timeinvestigating this stuff.
This is literally happening,well documented see, and and
even still.
Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
And, mikey, I'd love to get your take on this, but as
a religious man, I mean, I Iattribute that to spiritual,
especially whenever you talkabout the hitchhiker effect.
You know spirits can attach toobjects, you know, and that's
you know through the CatholicChurch, that's been well
documented.
You know, with some of theirexorcisms which a lot of them
are garbage.
But you know they actually havea division that is specifically
(01:04:43):
for exorcism and stuff likethat.
But, mikey, what's your take onthat?
I attribute it to spirits.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
We are going to break here.
End the episode Come next week.
Listen to Mikey answer this anda whole lot more in part two.
you've reached the internet's home for all things
masonry.
Join on the level podcast as weplumb the depths of our ancient
craft and try to unlock themysteries, dispel the fallacies
and utilize the teachings offreemasonry to unlock the
greatness within each of us.
I have you now.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Let's go.
Oh yeah, let's get it.
We back, matt, we are back, weback, we back, let's get it.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
We back Matt.
We are back, we back, we back.
Let's get it.
Look who's back Back again Oldguy's back.
We are catching up on content.
We've been slacking.
My fault, I've been busy.
I think you've been busy, Matt.
You've got a promotion in yourlodge and you've got a lot of
stuff going on in your lodge.
You've got a promotion in yourlodge and you've got a lot of
stuff going on in your lodge.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Promotion is a very strong word that I don't think
it applies, but yeah, let's dothat.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Well, let's call it a wartime appointment.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Then Bill Katsoulis called it that, wright Worsh
called it that.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
A wartime appointment .
They'll listen to this after.
We're going to release thisdirectly after the Katsoulis
podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So they to this after the.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
We're going to release this directly after the
cats who was podcast, so they'llknow what we're talking about.
Yeah, good, and we have aspecial guest with us today from
my home lodge, sarasota, lodgenumber 147, mikey juan asafito,
our brother mikey, our installedTyler.
Welcome to the podcast, brother, mikey, thank you.
Thank you for having me.
What's?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
up brother.
So to be fair, and I wanteverybody to know this, the last
time I saw Mikey, he and I werein a shower while a 70-year-old
woman was watching us.
But we're going to leave thatstory for another time.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
So I don't know that your standing in the fraternity
will allow this to lay overuntil next time.
You might need to clarify thatstatement.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
We'll leave it up to the listener's mind.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Okay.
All I'm saying is she wasmaking it rain, nickels.
That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
And her Wow, I still have welts from it.
She was throwing pennies allover me.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
You guys are going to kill me before we even start.
Damn it.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
That's the goal, man.
That's the goal.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
For those of the listeners that aren't aware,
matt, in addition to being an ACguy, is also a contractor of
sorts, and as is Mikey, and theywork together on some
construction projects.
So no, they weren't in aperson's private bathroom while
she was outside watchingthrowing nickels at them.
I mean, that's a great scene tohave, I think, in your mind.
(02:50):
No, they were actually doing arenovation for her.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I've seen her peeking through the window every once
in a while.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Man.
So we are here today becauseour brother, Mikey Acevedo,
actually in his spare time as ahobby runs a paranormal
investigation podcast.
Would you care to share thename of your podcast with the
listeners?
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Yeah, we're beyond the boundaries.
You can find us on Facebook,instagram, tiktok, any platforms
you can think of, so we justtalk about anything paranormal,
not just paranormal Cryptids,aliens, all that.
We get into just about anything.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
We're going to talk about the greys.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
The greys yeah, a lot of people just tuned out.
Don't tune out.
Listen, okay, listen to what wehave to say.
I know you think this is crazyand this is crazy talk, but just
listen and see what you thinkat the end.
If you still think it's crazy,then okay, I'll never do this
again.
Just let me know.
Mikey's not coming back on thepodcast you're doing.
(03:58):
You just covered a wide rangeof subjects.
It used to be these things werein very siloed buckets.
We had a UFO community.
We had a ufo community.
We had a paranormal community.
We had, specifically, cryptidswere broken up.
We had bigfoot community.
We had a loch ness monstercommunity.
We had the chupacabra communityuh, we got the mothman people
(04:21):
out there.
So, okay, if you're notfamiliar with what us crazy
people talk about, cryptids areany kind of a creature that
can't be explained by modern.
You know we don't know aboutthese.
They're not in our catalog ofexisting animals.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
That we call them fairy tale animals yeah, they're
, they're.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
These are animals that typically show up in
stories or things to scarechildren.
Right, everybody tells Bigfootstories when they go camping.
The Abominable Snowman.
There's another one.
We were talking about thisbefore the podcast started.
I'm older than you guys.
(05:01):
I know what it sucks to be inmy role and be the old man, but
that's my role in life,unfortunately now, and so I was
born in 1975.
And I remember being 17.
We were talking about this.
I would drive to work at Disney.
I worked at Disney at that ageand some of the restaurants I
(05:22):
worked in there were servers andI was like the guy that would
bank out the servers.
So we had a lot of private timein the room while they're
waiting for me to verify theircash, and when I'd have, like
the guys that believed in UFOsalone, we would like talk in
secret about UFO stuff, like didyou hear, did you hear, that
they found something at GroomLake, or did you hear that
(05:43):
there's something going on atArea 51?
And it was all this gossipyhearsay, and that's the only way
you got information about thisstuff.
There was nothing on publictelevision.
There was nothing on publicradio, however, like some AM
channels started popping up.
This is like 1992, let's call it91, 92.
And so I would have to listenat midnight on an AM station to
(06:06):
get any information about UFOs.
There were books put out so youcould read some books, but let
me tell you it was very sociallyunacceptable to talk about,
think about, believe in ordiscuss anything UFO related.
I think that the other area,like the paranormal, was a
little more widely accepted,probably because they made a lot
of movies about it.
We had the Exorcist and we hadwhat was that other gross one
(06:30):
where they built their house onIndian land.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Poltergeist.
They made a couple of them.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, there was a lot of those kind of movies, but
you didn't see a lot of alienstuff back then in the 80s and
90s and then Steven Spielbergcame along.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Well, he did make a movie in the 70s I believe.
I think that was the late 70s,when he did Close Encounters of
the Third Kind.
Now, are you aware that the manthe only scientist the
government employed at that timeto work on an official
government project was in CloseEncounters of the Third Kind?
I did not know that.
Yeah, yeah, the scene where thealiens come down and all the
(07:13):
scientists are like walkingforward, you know, in that big
hangar, right, he's one of thescientists at the front of that
line and he was the guy that wasthe government-employed
scientist in Project Blue Book.
He's the guy that investigatedall those, so we'll get into
that.
Yeah, there's a terribly weavedweb when it comes to UFO stuff
(07:34):
and our government and our mediaLook.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
depending on how fun this episode gets, I'm probably
going to start busting out theAlex Jones impersonation.
At some point it's going tostart busting out the Alex Jones
impersonation.
At some point it's going toshow up Just be ready for it.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I love that guy man, I've never seen it.
I've only seen the little clipswhere he's saying crazy stuff
and people share it.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
They're turning the frogs gay.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Is he a UFO guy?
I've heard 25% of his stuff iscorrect.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Here's the thing.
Here's what I don't understand.
I don't understand how you'regoing to call anyone can call
the guy a kook.
He got the one thing reallyreally wrong, I'll give you that
.
But the fact that he calledSeptember 11th like four months
before it happened and it'srecorded Really so he called it.
He goes airplanes are going tohit the World Trade Center
towers.
They're going to blame Osamabin Laden.
(08:26):
We're going to invade theMiddle East.
And he called that in likeApril of 2001.
It was insane how.
That's a great question.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
How would you have?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
known that that's a very good question.
That is a good question.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
No, I don't.
I obviously.
I know he's in trouble forParkland shooting or something
right.
He said it was fake and theysued him and he lost and he owes
millions of dollars.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Dude it's over a billion, a billion now, yeah, so
they're railroading this guystraight up into bankruptcy.
I mean, his show's still on andeverything, yeah.
So essentially they found himguilty by contempt or I can't
remember the exact name of it,but either way, the court asked
him to produce something.
He couldn't produce it, so theyjust automatically found him
(09:13):
guilty.
So all the court proceedingsthat you saw on TV and online
and everything that wasn't a hey, are you guilty, that's a how
guilty are you is what thatentire whole thing was.
I watched the whole thing.
Uh, he had a couple of reallygood zingers and the judge was
like, yeah, you can't talk aboutthe clintons while you're on
the stand.
It was hysterical.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I was dying laughing during that whole thing I didn't
see any of it and I'm only likecursory aware of it because I
don't know.
I didn't realize he was likeprophetic.
I thought he was just like aguy who says like kind of
extreme things.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
No, he and even still like the Trump assassination
attempt.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
You know, a few weeks back in July he actually
predicted that gosh four or fivemonths ago where he's like're
gonna try to shoot him at arally, like so he's flat out was
calling this like and he wasstill statistically, that would
be like the, the one that wouldhappen, yeah, yeah.
So it's like, all right, you'renot exactly prophesying at that
point, like you're just saying,okay, statistically that's
going to be the best option aman is going to have a heart
attack today, like yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Someone's going to tie their shoes.
I just know it.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I wear Crocs.
Some of that stuff is hard tobelieve, but.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I'll check it out.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
If you say it's worth it, I'll check it out.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
He's interesting because whenever it comes to
paranormal so he's real big intoangels and demons, obviously,
but whenever it comes to thealien stuff and there's another
guy that's actually been onRogan called Bob Lazar, I don't
know if you're familiar with himor- not.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So Bob Lazar that show I told you about that was
on AM radio back in 1990, theywould interview Bob Lazar.
Nice, bob Lazar was a householdname to us weirdos that were
studying this stuff.
There you go, but it was likenobody believed.
The government said he wascrazy and a liar.
And so you hear in an am radioeven a believer is like in the
(11:11):
back of your mind like thiscould all be crap.
But now he's public, he's outthere, people are listening to
him, like it really happened,like he.
You know and this is blowing mymind because I grew up in an
environment where everyonethought he was a nut job crazy
person I was surprised he wasstill alive.
When I heard he came out, I'mlike, oh, they didn't kill this
guy, yet Not just him.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I mean, gosh, if you go back on Joe Rogan's channel
on his Spotify or whatever he'sstreaming on nowadays.
But if you go back on Rogan,he's had like Navy pilots on
there.
He's had like top-end militarybrass, where they're like yeah,
we don't know what this is, it'san unidentified aerial
phenomenon, but this thing ispill-shaped and it literally
will hit the water and maintainthe same speed with no splash,
(11:56):
with no, yeah, with no splash.
So, either way, they've gotlike radar of this stuff.
They've got recordings of thisstuff.
Oh yeah, um I.
I realize that you probablywant to be on here to be the
counter voice, but I'm probablygoing to be the biggest
proponent of all of this.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Just to be clear, Okay, that's good, that'll make
it a little less friction.
So you know, the thing is, thisis all happening in real time
right now, as we record.
There are government projectstoday that are investigating
these things right now in theUnited States and in other
(12:31):
countries, so this is no longerin the shadows.
Don't tune out, because we'retalking about things you think
are crazy.
Just listen in for a minute.
Listen to some real people talkabout some real things about
this topic.
We have a semi-professionalhere with us.
Uh, I don't know, can I callyou a professional?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
I've been doing this since 2019, so I mean, okay,
here we go.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Have you gotten paid to do a paranormal investigation
?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
we don't get paid.
We actually um donate.
So if a client wants to give usmoney, we have our own charity
that we put the money into andthen we go into any autism group
that needs money and we donateit to them.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
That's awesome.
Why autism?
My two kids are autistic Bothof your children, yep.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
How old are they?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Mm-hmm.
Yep, how old are they?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Two and nine, ten Nine.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
How on the spectrum are they?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Otis, she's, I think, on the lower Now my son.
He's up there.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Is he verbal?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
No, nonverbal, yeah, yeah up there.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Is he verbal, no, non-verbal.
Yeah, yeah, my daughter's sonis autistic and he's not verbal,
so I know what a challenge thatcan be for everybody.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah, yeah, when they don't communicate like with
words.
It's really hard and they'realready not super good at
communicating he's, he's gettinga little better with, uh,
showing us and, kind of like,dragging us to where he wants to
like, if he wants a bottle orsomething, he'll take us to the
kitchen.
We'll open the gate up andhe'll slam open the door and
grab his bottles and drink it.
So he's getting, he's showingus a little bit on how, what
(14:15):
like, what he wants, what heneeds does your daughter help
with the translating what hewants?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
well, I know she's only two she's away for the
summer, so, ah, okay, yeah, yeahright we even tried to learn
sign language for a bit yeah,yeah, yeah, my, my daughter has
had to do sign language,obviously not like full-on
american sign language, but theylearn enough to communicate
like food hungry you know.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah, we know a little bit, not too much, we
know a little bit that'sinteresting.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Um so, how did you wind up getting into this
paranormal areas?
You're, you're a young guy.
How old are you now?
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I am actually on monday.
I'll be 27 you're 27.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Okay, your masonic career should be easy to cover.
I was there for it.
We made you a Mason, a MasterMason, last year, right after.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Matt.
Me and Matt were raised up likea week.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
That's right.
A week apart.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Super close.
I was raised December 9th.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
I was raised December 16th yeah, yep, wow, week apart
.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, he's your, he's your elder in freemasonry.
You have to listen to him.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I know that's right, I mean not only that, you can
tell by the gray beard he's gotgoing on too.
He's pretty much an elder no,he's actually.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
He's 25.
He's younger than you.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Oh, is he, Is he?
I don't know if I believe that.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
That's every member of Turkey Creek, I believe,
turns gray within the first sixmonths.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Honestly yes, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
That's not a knock on Turkey Creek.
I love you guys.
I've never been to Step Foot inthe Lodge, so I can make fun of
you, I'll knock on Turkey Creekall day long, my guy.
It's like that's my family.
Only I can talk about my family.
Yeah, exactly no, you'reyounger than me, but you're
older than him.
You're in the middle here.
Oh yeah, I think you're bothmillennials.
(16:21):
I believe You're of the samegeneration.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
No, both millennials.
I believe You're of the samegeneration.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
No, I actually don't make the cut.
Well, you're very young, huh.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Millennials.
They cut it off at 96.
I was born in 97, so I didn'tmake it.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Oh, so you're in that in-between year that lost
generation.
What is it?
What are you?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Tell us Label yourself Gen Z, I believe.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Hang on a second second.
I'm looking it up.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Gen z yeah, gen z, or I gen, was born from 97 to 2010
I gen just sounds so muchcooler yeah, it's kind of like
saying uh, you know generation xso yeah, generation x is you
know, here we, I mean we'rewalking into things now.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Well, I'm just thinking from like WWE, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, yeah, all right .
So you're Baby Mason.
You were installed this year asthe Tyler of Sarasota Lodge.
You've been doing a great job.
I was at your installation.
This man carrying a, carrying abroad sword is a site to be
seen.
Go on a Sarasota Facebook pageand watch the photo of it
Carrying a sword like twice asbig as he is.
(17:31):
It's pretty bad-ass.
How has it been for you inFreemasonry so far in your short
career?
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I am not going to lie , I would not have done it any
other way.
It's been amazing, it's beenamazing, it's been amazing.
So, from the moment I firststepped in and signed a petition
to where I am at now, it's beena great journey.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I was his catechism instructor through all three of
his degrees.
Oh very nice.
I wasn't able to come back anddo his Master Mason catechism.
They kind of creeped that onein on me so I wasn't there.
I apologize.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
My forehead still hurts, by the way, chris, your
forehead.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, why, oh, I knocked you.
Yeah, yeah, I was also.
I played third base in hisMaster Mason degree.
And let me tell you, if you'venever seen me play third base,
you're really missing out.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
No, it's the scariest thing you'll ever see.
Chris gets so into that rolethat when you see him outside of
that lodge room you're like Idon't know if I want to mess
with this guy anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
He's a different person.
Man, I'm playing a character.
You know you got to get crazyeyes with it and everything.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I have seen two people play third base.
One is like this I mean oldfrail, like podiatrist, from, I
think, either like templeterrace or Hillsborough lodge,
but either way, like he got, hegot into it too.
But then the other one is ourcurrent DDGM, Roscoe Love, Right
Worshipful.
Roscoe Love, Now RightWorshipful, is like he's just a
(19:08):
grisly-looking dude, always gota cigar in his hand, but he's
got this wispy hair andeverything.
So what he did is he grabbed ashirt and rocked it back on the
forearms to where he had theperson off their feet.
This guy is like 70 somethingyears old, so it's like, and
he's like picking these dudes up.
I'm like Roscoe, put that boydown First off.
This is awesome.
I can do this.
(19:28):
Train me for that role.
That's what I want.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Well, I mean, imagine Chris is like what Six, chris
is like what?
6'2".
I don't know how much you weigh, I'm a 5'2", 5'3" guy and I
thought I was flying through theair when he just you were.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Well, it's like that is one of the toughest roles in
Freemasonry to play, because weare not to do rough and unseemly
conduct in our work, so we'renot supposed to roughhouse
people.
It's in the name.
The role calls for a little bitof roughhousing.
Yeah, by default.
So it's like the line there isreally hard to find in the right
(20:10):
way, because you can go too farand if you don't go far enough,
everybody's let down.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
It's like oh, I've heard, I've heard rumor that
back in the day, so supposedlylike back in the early to mid
1900s, turkey creek was actuallya two-story barn, like a horse
barn, and so I've heard rumorthat they actually used to throw
people out of the second floor.
Oh, my goodness for third baseand I'm like I would pay so much
(20:38):
money to see that.
Some guy just getting launchedout of a window.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Was there something in the bottom to?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
stop the fall.
If you have to do stun trainingwork before your degree, it's
not going to be good.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Looking like Michael J Fox just doing a Wilhelm
scream.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Hans Gruber falling off Nakatomi Tower, exactly
Yippee-ki-yatomi Tower.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Exactly, exactly, yippee-ki-yay EA.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Wow, I don't know how we got there.
Oh, we were talking about youbecoming a Mason.
Yeah, I'm a big fan.
Invite me.
I'm waiting for somebody to askme to come do some degree work,
so please invite me.
If you have a Master Masondegree, I can do lectures too.
I can be a multi-purpose tool.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
But call on me, look, honestly, I might do that,
because we start training ontuesday.
Now we're recording today'saugust 10th.
We start training on tuesday.
I have to sit in the east foran ea degree in october
excellent, yeah.
So it's like I've got less thantwo months to prepare for an EA
degree.
So our lodge we haven't donethis in the longest time, but
(21:42):
our lodge the way it used to beis that the senior deacon put on
the EA degrees, the juniorwarden put on the fellow craft
and the senior warden put on themaster mason.
We haven't done that in likegenerations at our lodge and so
Worshipful this year, daveWorshipful was like hey, by the
way, we're getting back to thatand I'm like I just got
installed.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Have mercy, sir.
You've started to blaze trails,and once that's trails blazing,
all you can do is put more fuelon it.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
You can't let off that gas man.
You got to keep going.
Just don't, don't remind me.
You'll have a great time.
But the thing and this is thethis is the, I guess, kind of
frustrating part is like ourlodge is so rusty.
Is that like?
I'm like, hey, by the way, Ineed a senior deacon for an ea
degree, like obviously, that'slike the most talking is going
to come from that role.
I'm like, hey, I need a, I needa senior deacon.
And like nobody's raising theirhands and I'm like I do not
(22:35):
want to have to call on anotherlodge to have a senior deacon.
I really want it to be one ofour guys.
Yeah, so we'll see what happenswith it.
We've got three.
We got three guys that we'regoing to initiate in October,
nice.
So it's going to be three EAs.
We're going to track them thewhole way through.
I'm the catechism instructortoo, so we'll see how that goes.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
You just keep filling up your plate don't you?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
This is what pump priming a lodge looks like.
One person got to do all thework to get it going.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
That's how it works.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
And then you'll initiate guys that will see how
hard you're working and they'llbe impressed by it and they'll
want to join in and you'll havean army of people.
You already got a crew behindyou.
You got a great situation rightnow.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Brother Stone.
Look, if anybody at TurkeyCreek wants to be mad at me for
the seeming hostile takeoverthat this younger generation is
doing, blame the guy on thispodcast right now, chris Burns.
You as soon as I got, I think Iwas a fellow craft.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yay, more haters.
Thank you as soon as I got.
I think I was a fellow.
Yeah, I think I.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I think I was a fellow craft and I was talking
about how, like our worshipfulat the time was doing catechism
instruction and like I didn'tthink it was proper and all this
other stuff.
And you go, Matt I think it wasthe first time we ever talked
you were like, Matt, buildyourself a, a crew of people,
and those are your guys, andthat's what we've done.
We've got like six dudes.
Now you're going to really getstuff done.
(24:00):
Yeah, We've got like six orseven dudes to where and like,
and even that plan of actionthat you and I need to talk
about here on the podcast.
But even with that plan ofaction, we're going to have like
seven years of fresh masters.
If we don't bring in anybodyelse, If we bring in these
additional three now, we're upto 10.
There you go.
So it's like all right, we'regoing to have 10 years of fresh
(24:23):
leadership at a lodge.
You're going to fundamentallychange that lodge, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Make it modern, make it alive again with Freemasonry.
Not that it's not, not that theguys aren't good Masons, but is
it alive with Freemasonry?
Are people trying to be goodMasons?
Are they trying to be betterpeople?
Are they trying to be goodMasons?
Are they trying to be betterpeople?
Are they trying to do charitywork?
Are they trying to help eachother learn and grow Like that's
how you know it's alive in yourlodge.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I just want to repaint the place because we
have this like burnt orangebathroom.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Don't talk to me about the color of your lodge.
It's not as bad as the pinklodge room.
I'll say that.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
But it is a burnt orange or like baby poop style
color bathroom.
It's insane.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, baby poop.
I haven't seen that in a while.
But thanks for the visual.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, I think I sent you a picture of the toilets
that I had replaced, where I waslike, oh yeah, another life in
the day of a master Mason.
I thought that was just thetoilets in your house.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
I had no idea.
All right, mikey, mikey,mikey's our guest here, come on
out.
So you're new Mason and you'regetting your feet wet and I come
to find out that you have aparanormal podcast.
I can't remember how I foundout, but there's no way I was
letting that one go.
As soon as I found out, I'veactually, since I've relocated
(25:38):
to South Carolina, had someinteresting experiences here and
even sent some photos to MikeLike, hey, what do you think
about this?
Is this weird?
You know, you kind of helped meout with some logical
explanations that made me feellike, okay, that could be, that
could be.
It could be a reflection offthe window.
You know, could be, I'm okaywith that.
Could be a reflection off thewindow, it could be.
(25:58):
I'm okay with that answer.
Not everything is unexplainable.
Most of the stuff and I don'twant to talk for you, but I feel
like most of the stuff that youlook at you can probably
explain, yes, or come up with alogical explanation.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
If you can't explain it, it could be this so what we
say is, my wife is actually thebare bad news in the paranormal
field, because when someoneemails us or they send us
pictures on our Facebook oranything like that, she goes and
she analyzes the pictures andshe has a whole software where
(26:36):
she puts pictures and videoslike that and she can see if
those pictures were messed within a way.
So if they mess with it andthey change it, they edit it or
anything like that, she'll beable to see it in that software.
And then she'll be like, hey,this picture was messed with,
it's not authentic.
We can't really go off of thispicture that you sent us.
(26:59):
So I mean, if you have a realpicture, can you send us the
picture that's not edited?
Or, when we get the board,pictures.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
That's got to be a red flag, though, when you get a
photo from someone and they'veedited it.
I'd be like, okay, you'rewasting my time.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Yeah, usually that's what happens.
We get a lot of people mad atus, but we got to do what we got
to do to make sure it's realstuff.
We can't just go in.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
You're not there to confirm their suspicions.
You're there to tell them whatyou think the truth is.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Yeah, and we get orb pictures, orb pictures, orb
pictures.
Usually they're just bugs ordust in your house, so you know
how you move around.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
So clean your house, people.
That's what we're saying.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Yeah, you move around and you see dust and stuff
flying around, little particlesof whatever just flying around
everywhere and people takepictures of it and they're just
like, oh my God, I caughtsomething.
They're like, no, that's just afly in your house.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Oh my God, I caught something they're like no,
that's just a fly in your house.
I've seen that even on like bigscientific level studies like
Skinwalker Ranch.
I'm a huge Skinwalker Ranch fan.
I'm going to mention it a loton the show.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Blind Frog Ranch is another good one.
Which one Blind Frog Ranch?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Blind Frog Ranch, there's another ranch out there
called Bradshaw Ranch, which hasgot a lot of weird stuff going
on.
But they actually do a lot ofrecording on different kinds of
technology LIDAR and radar andthey measure gravimetric stuff
and a lot of satellite geo stuffand they'll record something
(28:38):
and they'll be like, oh my god,that thing's moving at like six
million miles an hour.
And then after they analyze itthey're like, oh, it's a fly.
Uh, because a fly at that?
You know, at that, if he'scloser to the camera you think
it's far.
You do the math, you're like,oh my god, it's going eight
million miles an hour.
No, it's a fly right in frontof the camera.
So it even happens, evenhappens on the high end of these
(29:00):
investigations.
But you know you lose allcredibility if you're not
willing to admit the obvious.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
And that's like how we were talking before.
You get these shows on TV thathave been Hollywood eyes, as you
call it.
It that fake a lot of theirevidence, as we call it,
evidence that they pick up oreven noises that they hear.
They're just like, oh, I heardsomething and it's just bob
(29:27):
around the corner making noiseswith pots and pans.
Yeah, you know, and they, they,they always see, that's what
they always show on the on theshows.
It's just something, someonethat faked it and it gives us a
bad name, because theneverybody's like, oh, these
paranormal investigators,they're not legit, they're not
anything fun and it's for thepeople that are actually trying
(29:48):
to do it to help out otherpeople yeah, which it's, I think
.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Because we were talking about this with matt, I
was like, oh, matt's gonna beour straight man.
He's like like, not me.
I got my own experiences andthat's the only thing that can
change someone's mind is theyhave to have a personal
experience.
It doesn't matter how much youshow them or tell them, until
they have something happen tothem, they're not going to be a
believer.
And we talk about, well, mygeneration.
(30:15):
You literally couldn't talk toanybody about this not your
parents, not your sisters andyour brothers, nothing.
Because the stigma was so hardsocially on you being a weirdo
that you just couldn't talkabout it.
You were literally at risk ofbeing called crazy if you
legitimately believed any ofthis stuff was happening.
But now I think it's a littlemore acceptable.
(30:37):
There are TV shows all over theplace now.
There are government agenciesinvestigating some of these
things.
However, I really do believethat some of that stigma still
exists in our society, where youare looked at as a little bit
of a nut job or crazy person.
If you talk about it like in aserious way, it's, it's still
there, it's still around we, we,actually we get in a serious
(30:57):
way.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
It's, it's still there, it's still around we, we,
actually we get in a lot everyonce in a while yeah it's
interesting because we're livingin this time.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
I would argue where?
Specifically in?
I'm not, I'm not even going tosay american culture, I'm going
to say in white culture,specifically in white culture,
uh, here in the united states,where it's like no, you're the
crazy one if you believe thatstuff.
But if you look at othercultures like Central and South
America, africa, other, cultureshere that are on this planet
(31:25):
and throughout time.
It's weird that we don't believethese things, that we don't
believe in the supernatural,that we don't believe in the
spiritual.
If you go down to Mexico or yougo down to Central America, it
is just rife with NativeAmerican culture, dream catchers
, those sorts of things.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, I mean, look at any culture going back to the
beginning of any recordedhistory, that we have the
Sumerians, and you're going tosee tales of insane things
happening to those people.
Are they telling stories, arethey documenting things?
It was a great effort to recordsomething.
Back then we're talking aboutchiseling into stone.
(32:06):
Okay, so people didn't just sitin their bed and chisel into
stone at night for fun, like ifit got written, it was pretty
important.
So either that was a veryimportant cultural story to them
or they were recordingsomething that they saw or a
tradition, tradition they hadheard.
You know, carried through time.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Well, they say every what is it fairy?
Tale folklore has.
Every fairy tale of folklorehas a little bit of truth in it.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
It's not all of it, but there's always a little bit
of truth in those fairy talestories like the big thing for
me, like the more I'm able tosee the bigger picture of all
this stuff, and we shouldprobably start at the beginning,
not at the end.
But to me, now we can lookthrough time at all of these
different cultures and thestories are so similar.
(32:52):
They all kind of line up insuch a similar way.
They all kind of line up insuch a similar way.
It's almost impossible todiscount that there's a
continuous thing happeningthrough time, because everyone's
documenting it in their own wayand it kind of all lines up
with each other's stories.
You can convict a murderer onless than that in their modern
culture.
(33:14):
So it's like we have plenty ofevidence.
It's just still, I think,discounted and a lot of even
mainstream scientists don't wantto.
They're coming out more andmore because they're discovering
things like the big tech andsome of these really old
underground tunnels that havebeen connected in the Turkey, in
the area over there, where theyhad underground society that we
(33:34):
didn't know about 5,000 yearsago, 8,000 years ago, and it's
really hard to dispute that.
So scientists are struggling todeal with the fact that science
is matching up to what we'vebeen saying for decades.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Well even still and it gets a little more fun than
that.
But if you know so, I'm, youknow it's well documented on
this show that I'm a Christian.
I profess a faith in Christ.
If you read the Bible cover tocover, cover, then you believe
in the supernatural and youbelieve in the spiritual like
and so that's the part that hasalways amazed me is like,
whenever you talk about, like,demon possession around
christians, they like pearlclutch.
They're like what do you mean?
What do you mean spirits?
(34:09):
And it's like no, look, if youwant to read throughout either
the old testament or the newtestament, I can point you to
those things.
You know, know, and I evenpulled up one that we're
probably going to get into herein a little bit but it's like
look, even Christ had to dealwith demon possessed people.
You know, in the Old Testament,saul actually had a witch
summon a dead prophet.
So it's like, if you believethe Bible cover to cover, you
(34:30):
believe in these things.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
It was pretty popular in the culture.
Your stories also, as you saidin your book, are kind of lining
up with what everyone else issaying.
It's just the labels aredifferent we're talking about
demons or we're talking aboutangels, whereas they're talking
about shadow people or someother explanation for that same
phenomena, but with a differentname and a different kind of
(34:53):
like setting for it.
Yeah, the facts remain the same, like people saw stuff that
other people couldn't see.
People heard stuff that otherpeople couldn't hear.
People observed things thatshouldn't have been observable
in nature and they told thestory and it wound up into the
Bible.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
We fell into a.
So the first investigation thatwe had, where we decided to
cross over both paranormal andUFO, we put two things together.
So we would get reports fromthe clients that they'll see
this eight foot tall shadowfigure with a top hat on and
(35:30):
then they'll see this littlegirl with a pink dress on.
We're like, oh, that soundsparanormal, that's you know,
something sounds weird yeah yeah, it's a weird thing eight foot
guy with a tiny little girl witha pink dress, that's.
And they're both shadow figures.
Yeah, um, we ended up talkingto a professional ufo guy.
(35:52):
He's been on all over discoverychannel with the tv shows and
all that and he goes.
Yeah, when we go to abducteecases, that's usually what they
see is an eight-foot shadowfigure guy with a top hat or a
little girl with a pink dress on.
That's where we decided to justswitch our roles into just not
(36:15):
paranormal and we're like oh,let's try to see if the ufo
stuff works out now that'sinteresting.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
So, like I said, when I grew up, you were a ufo guy,
you were a paranormal guy or youwere a bigfoot guy, but it
seems like in today, a lot ofthis is getting rolled into one
big category of like strangethings or high strangeness.
(36:44):
I think you call it right Somehigh strangeness is happening
here and in modern times.
I think the best example ofthis is Skinwalker Ranch.
People probably aren't awarethat the government program that
just became public is thegovernment agency that was
(37:05):
involved in investigatingSkinwalker Ranch.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Okay, give me an elevator pitch on Skinwalker
Ranch.
I've never heard of this before.
Are you serious?
Yeah, dude, I don't watch TV.
I'm that type of a nerd.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Skinwalker Ranch came to prominence in the 60s.
There was a rancher who wasreporting losing a lot of cattle
to mutilations at the time, andso they actually did
investigations.
And it wasn't just on his ranch, which is like this huge ranch
in Utah, it's at the Uinta Basin, which is like a big, it's a
giant bowl in Utah and they'relike in the bowl with nothing
(37:42):
but mountains and hills aroundthem.
And so police investigated.
Everybody couldn't explain whatwas mutilating these cows
because the cow, these giantcows, would show up with no
blood anywhere and they wouldhave surgical removal of the eye
or the tongue or the anus, likethere would be.
It wasn't like an animal noddedsomething and made a big mess.
(38:04):
Something like scalpel or lasercut chunks out of these cows
and drained them of blood andleft them there.
So either they were mutilatedsomewhere else and dropped off
here.
But I don't know who at thattime would have had the
resources or time to run aroundwith these large animals,
killing them and messing them upand dropping them off in remote
(38:27):
areas where they wouldn't befound for like a couple of days.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
So the blood in the eye is weird, but as far as the
rest of it is concerned, thehind end of a cow if you watch a
coyote or a wolf, that'sactually the first part that
it'll eat of an animal wheneverit makes a kill.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
So it'll start there and work its way through.
You can absolutely tell thedifference between an animal
eating the ass of a cow and aborehole being made into a cow.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
that's like completely clean and circular it
looks like there's a thingabout it on Netflix.
I might have to watch thiswhenever I get home.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
There's several things, don't worry, I'll
recommend you the right thingsto watch.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Thanks, I'm just telling you this is where it
started.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
It started with those reports from this rancher,
right, that's the only thingthat was public.
However, the rancher wasreporting a lot of other things
that weren't made public, likeparanormal things were happening
in his property.
There's a very popular storywhere he was so terrified of his
cattle.
He was going to leave the ranch, but he was afraid to leave
them.
So he put all the cattle in apen in the front of his ranch
(39:27):
where he could see them when hepulled in and he was so
uncomfortable.
He came home early to check onthe cattle we're talking about
five male bulls, okay and whenhe got there they were missing,
and so he searched the propertyand there was a little shed near
where the cattle were beingkept.
All five cattle were crammedside by side into that shed
(39:51):
right, and he opens the door andthey're standing there
motionless, almost like they'rehypnotized, and within seconds
they snap out of it and theystart beating the crap out of
the shed and beat it to hell,and they actually managed to
squeeze out eventually of theshed.
So this got enough attention,these kinds of stories got
enough local attention that abillionaire who is interested in
(40:15):
the paranormal bought the ranchnamed Bigelow Bigelow Now, if
you look named Bigelow BigelowNow, if you look up Bigelow he
owned an aerospace company.
This is how he got wealthy, andhe had a very high level of
interest in aliens specifically.
So in his youth he thought I'mgoing to spend all my money
figuring out this alien thingand I'm going to build
(40:35):
spaceships that are going to beinterstellar and I'm going to
become the richest man in theuniverse.
These are the thoughts in hishead.
So he buys this ranch wherethere's a lot of alien activity,
right?
This, of course, is before ElonMusk was a thing.
Yes, Way before.
Way before he bought the ranchwith a co-effort from the US
government.
So it was 50% owned by BigelowAerospace and 50% owned by an
(41:00):
American government entity andtogether they formed a
government agency and I can tellyou the name of that.
Somebody can tell you the nameof that.
This company investigatedSkinwalker Ranch for over 20
years.
They brought in physicists, theybrought in botanists, they
brought in psychologists becausethey thought what these people
(41:23):
did a thorough investigation.
They thought maybe the plantsare creating hallucinogenic
properties and people are justtripping balls Like.
They looked at every angle andwhat happened was they all went
mad because they recordedparanormal activity, cryptid
activity, interdimensional,apparently activity and UFO,
(41:46):
traditional UFO activity allhappening on this ranch and they
can tell you they have reportsof.
They would buy their groceries,put them away in the pantry,
turn around, get something andall their groceries are back out
on the table.
So you've got that kind ofparanormal activity, or they'd
lose something and it would showup in a tree somewhere like 50
(42:07):
feet in a tree, like two dayslater after they couldn't find
it.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
I mean that actually makes sense.
Go ahead.
Imagine being late for work andyou find your keys on the tree.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, that actually makes sense, Cause there's
actually, um, I think it's herein the United States, but
there's actually differentplaces you can go to to go on a
DMT trip and so dimethyltrexate,and so that's where a lot of
people they think that a lot ofthe stories from you know the
Bible came from is that wheneveryou get on to dimethyltrexate,
you can now blur the linesbetween dimensions and you can
(42:39):
see other things or otherentities.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I think mushrooms are probably the more like natural
way that people go about doingthat, because it has the exact
same properties of ofhallucinogenic kind of effects.
It's really opening your mind tothings that you wouldn't
normally be open to.
It's removing barriers thatyour mind has in place and
(43:05):
people call that they're seekingto kill their own ego.
So when you go to a therapist,you're essentially dealing with
all the problems that your egocreates for you why you don't
communicate right, why you getangry about things.
This is all related to your ego, and so psychologists take
decades to break down thebarriers of your ego to get to
what's really happening.
Because you protect yourself.
(43:25):
Your ego does.
But you can take a drug likeDMT or you can take psychedelic
mushrooms and your ego meltsaway 100%, completely within
hours, and so they're looking atusing this.
They actually put people in aroom with a psychologist and
they do sessions while they'reunder psychedelic drugs and they
make progress that would takethem 15 years to make by going
(43:47):
to nightly meetings, you know,for an hour at a time, because
they can totally break throughthe ego and get right to the
root of what your problems are.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
So you heard it here first folks.
Chris is going to be sponsoringa Masonic mushroom trip that we
are going to gather a wholebunch of master masons together.
We're going to go on a mushroomand DMT trip sponsored by Chris
Burns.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
I will pay for the drugs.
However, we have to have aresponsible medical professional
there to help us.
That's the key.
It's not for fun, it's actuallyfor medical treatment, and so
people always try toself-medicate, and I think a lot
of people do it throughtripping like that because they
(44:31):
can get to the root of whatreally is going on in their life
.
And also people say that ourdream states can remove our ego.
So I don't know if you guyshave ever had an experience of a
dream speaking to you aboutreality.
I have my first wife.
I'm on my third wife, my firstwife.
I had this horrible dream offinding a guy's card in her
(44:55):
purse.
I knew exactly where it was inmy dream.
I didn't know what it was, butI knew it was scary and bad.
So I woke up, ran to her purse,looked and there was a card of
a guy who is a roller derby guyand apparently she had been
going after work to this rollerderby place and hitting on this
guy and they've been meeting.
And I uncovered this wholeaffair that was going on.
(45:18):
Scandal, chris, scandal,because I had a weird dream that
like told me I needed to lookin her purse for a cart.
And that is probably the firsttime I thought okay, this is not
cool, because my dream affectedreal life.
I shouldn't have known that, Ishouldn't have known that, I
shouldn't have known to lookthere.
(45:40):
So I had a personal experiencethat didn't line up with what
reality was taught to me growingup.
So my mind got open to otherthings.
I thought, well, this ispossible.
What else is possible?
Speaker 2 (45:54):
So my mind got open to other things.
I thought, well, if this ispossible, what else is possible?
So this type of stuff actuallythis might come as a surprise to
you, but I was actually raisedaround this type of stuff.
So my family on my dad's sideis actually from like Backwoods
Georgia, backwoods Georgia,backwoods Georgia, like family
tree, has some branches thatshouldn't connect Backwoods
Georgia, gotcha, yeah.
So it's like our family treekind of looks like a palm tree.
(46:18):
So, having said all that, mygrandmother on my dad's side I
don't know what she practiced,but I would almost call it like
Wiccanism, you know, somewhere,somewhere around there.
So she called my dad, my momand dad met here in in Tampa
Florida, and so she calls my dadand they called him Bo and they
(46:40):
and she said Bo, I had a dreamabout Denise Now Denise is my
mom's name and he goes.
Really, what was the dream?
And he drove a, him and herdrove a Datsun B210GX.
They're very specific on that.
They bought it for like 500bucks and she goes, she got into
a wreck in the Datsun and myolder brother in this dream died
(47:02):
in this dream and she goes andthe only thing that I remember
is that there was a yellowclothes basket in the back of
the car that was laying next tohis body and so dad got home.
Whenever dad got home, aftertalking to her, he walks out and
he goes, hey, uh, you know is,is there a clothes basket in the
car?
She's like, yeah, I went to thelaundromat today and he walks
out to the car and there's ayellow clothes basket in the
(47:23):
back of the car.
So he immediately took it outand he's in that car.
Wow, so yeah, my family is likefrom the place of Georgia of
like you go out to the middle ofthe woods, like no pathways to
get there, you start a fire andyou start playing a guitar or
picking a banjo and then peoplejust start walking out of the
(47:44):
woods.
That's my extended family inGeorgia.
Yeah, honestly.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
This probably was based on them, sure do got a
pretty mouth boy, so you havepersonal lifetime experience
with this stuff.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Yes, Do you have any personal, personal experiences
with this?
I know why you're asking that,chris.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
I'm just asking because you're a believer, and
everybody I know that believesin anything out of the ordinary
only believes because they had apersonal experience.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
So this is the OK.
So I'm a firm believer thatdreams can be interpreted.
Dreams can tell the future.
I mean, we have the word dejavu for a reason, so this is not
something that is uncommon.
Now, I had an experience, and ifI get emotional during this,
(48:37):
you're going to have to cut thisout.
So, for context, for people whodon't know, my dad passed away
from complications with cancerabout 15 years ago, and so he
passed away July 29th 2009, andI think it was mid August.
We're freaking out, right,because my dad is the license
holder of the business.
He was the key pillar in ourbusiness.
(48:59):
Everything in our family.
Dad was the cornerstone.
So we're all freaking outbecause we've only got 30 days
before county and state aregoing to come in and shut our
business down.
So I have a dream, and it's.
It's one of those dreams whereyou don't just your head hits
the pillow.
You wake up, you know a fewminutes later and you're like,
(49:20):
oh, I have this faint memory ofsomething that happened.
No, I experienced all six hourswith my dad and it was weird
because I picked up dad in mytruck.
This is in the dream by.
Up dad in my truck.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
This is in the dream by the way I picked up my dad in
my truck.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
I drove a 07 Toyota Tundra.
We got in the truck at LakelandRegional Hospital.
We drove all the way down I-4.
For those here in the localarea, you're going to know what
I'm talking about.
We got off at I-4 in BranchForbes, turned around and drove
back and that trip took sixhours.
We talked about everything.
He told me about my don't judgeme.
(49:55):
We talked about.
Here's the thing I haven't toldthis story to people, so, like
it's, it's kind of messing withme a little bit.
So he told me about my youngerbrother.
He told me about my mom.
He told me about all kinds ofstuff.
But this is the part thatfreaked me out.
He goes Matt, here's what Iwant you to do Tomorrow whenever
(50:17):
you get back to the office.
I want you to go down to thecounty and I want you to talk to
this one specific guy.
He goes.
I want you to talk to this onespecific guy, explain the
situation to him and he's goingto get this figured out.
Also, I want you to go talk tothis builder, this one specific
guy, and I want you to talk tothis executive over at this
builder.
And I'm like I don't even knowthese people's names.
(50:38):
I've never heard these people'snames before.
Now, fast forward.
I wake up.
Oh sorry, the end of the dream.
The end of the dream was as youwalk into Lakeland Regional,
there's the two doors at the ERdepartment.
Where you walk in, there's areceptionist, there's elevators
and then there's a back hallway.
I didn't know this, but theback hallway is where they take
(50:58):
all the dead bodies to.
I had no idea.
I only found that out later.
And so dad walks in and dadwalks down that hallway, right
by the elevators, just to theleft of the elevators.
Anybody at Lakeland Regional isgoing to freak out whenever I
tell them this.
And there's two figures thatare standing on both sides of
this hallway and I'm followingdad into this hallway.
(51:19):
They both stick out their arms.
So, like you know, the guy onthe right sticks out his right
arm, guy on the left sticks outhis left arm and there's a gold
brace.
There's a gold like brace ontheir arms.
Weirdest thing ever like a yeah, yeah.
And it's gold and like.
They're hooded right so I can'tsee their face.
All I see is a hand and a goldbrace on their arm and I'm like,
hey, my, my dad's going backthere.
(51:42):
I want to go.
I want to go back there with mydad.
Don't judge me, chris, it's toolate for that.
I know Right, um, and they go,you will go with him, but not
yet.
It's not your time.
And all this happened in yoursix-hour dream, in my six-hour
dream, I kid you not.
I wake up the next day.
I go down to the county, I talkto that guy, I call the guy at
(52:02):
the builder.
Everything just clicked.
We got a temporary license thatgave us an additional 45 days
to get my license transferredover.
The like was superunderstanding about everything
and like walked me through awhole bunch of their processes.
It was one of the weirdestfreaking things ever.
And so whenever people are like, oh, you know, I don't believe
in communing with the dead, Idid, and it was my dad.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
Well.
So see, this ties into everysingle culture since human
history was recorded.
Christians will say you spoketo an angel, or your dad right.
Other cultures will say thatthat was your guardian.
Other cultures will say that'syourself.
You already knew this.
You manifested it in a shape,in a manner that you would trust
(52:49):
, so that you would do the thingthat needed to be done.
But you knew it all the wholetime because you're connected to
it.
I mean, I don't want to get toowacky on you, but this is very
common in every culture and theyall have their way of
explaining it.
But when you have a personalexperience and I have a personal
experience, and Mikey has apersonal experience you can't
tell me that I didn't experiencewhat I experienced.
You can say other stuff isn'treal, but I know mine's not.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
It is real.
And not only that, but ifyou're listening to this and
you're a professing Christian, Iwould encourage you to go to 1
Samuel 28.
Are you cool if I read thisshort little passage?
Yeah, so this is King Saul.
King Saul summons a medium ofEndor, or some translations call
it the witch of Endor.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Isn't that where the Ewoks came from in Return of the
Jedi?
Speaker 2 (53:36):
I'm pretty sure it's a Lord of the Rings reference.
But yeah, let's go with whatyou said.
Okay, but either way, hedisguises himself.
King Saul disguises himself andhe wants to talk to Samuel.
And so, 1 Samuel 28, he'stalking to the witch.
In this point he says Saulvowed to her by the Lord, saying
as the Lord lives, nopunishment shall come upon you
(53:57):
for this thing, for summoningthis dead guy.
Then the woman said who shall Ibring up for you?
And he said bring up Samuel forme, the prophet Samuel.
When the woman saw Samuel, shecried out with a loud voice and
the woman spoke to Saul, sayingwhy have you deceived me?
For you are Saul.
The king said to her do not beafraid.
What do you see?
And the woman said to Saul Isee a divine being coming out of
(54:20):
the earth.
He said to her what is it?
What is his form?
And she said an old man iscoming up and he is wrapped with
a robe.
And Saul knew that it wasSamuel and he bowed his face to
the ground and did homage.
So it's like if you're aChristian, you believe in this
crap, whether you want to admitit or not.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
It's a little well.
A lot of Christians aren'taware of a lot of things that
exist in the Bible because youdon't talk about them at Sunday
at church, you know we talkabout demon possession that
Jesus cast out.
So yeah, let's have theseconversations.
Yeah, jesus cast out.
So yeah, let's have theseconversations.
Yeah, yeah, and I think I thinkpretty like I talk about a lot.
(55:01):
My wife's family is veryreligious and everything to them
is a demon or an angel.
So if we talk about aliens,they're demons.
Unless they help somebody, thenit's an angel.
So they kind of categorize itinto their vernacular that they
can understand.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
So they kind of categorize it into their
vernacular that they canunderstand.
Yes and no.
I mean because you can havedemons that are helpful, because
they want you to be neutral.
They don't want you to pursuethe things that are of God, so
they want to make youcomfortable, and so, to our
human eyes, that's them beinghelpful.
No, they want you comfortable,so that way you're not working
for the kingdom.
Speaker 1 (55:30):
Yeah, and you know it's a sad thing, but for humans
, like some of our greatestthings come out of tragedy and
negative things.
I mean you never I never met aninteresting person that didn't
have hard times in theirbackground.
And anybody that I met that wasextremely wealthy and grew up
(55:59):
that way is totally messed up inthe head and not generally
going to be a good person.
You have to go through crap.
It kind of is what makes youinto a better person.
Coming out of that, the otherside and having a little more
respect for other people andthings I think is part of the
process.
Pain is part of the process ofbecoming a better person.
But I want to talk to Mikeyabout what he's doing today.
But now that I know that youdon't know the background of
this, I just want to brieflygive you the cliff notes of how
(56:21):
we got to where we're at.
Yeah, please, okay, everyone'sheard of Roswell, right?
Yeah, okay, roswell is whatstarted the public's knowledge
about all this stuff going on,and the government actually had
a project called Project Sign in1948, which you probably never
heard of.
It was established by the AirTechnical Service Command and
(56:45):
they were investigating atWright-Patterson Field Air Force
in Ohio claims of things thatwere strange in the sky.
That project led into agovernment project called
(57:05):
Project Grudge, which formallyended in 1949 and directly
followed Project Sign and was aneven bigger look into the whole
UFO.
What's going on?
Because people are seeingthings phenomenon by the Air
Force.
That led into Project Blue Book.
Now I'm sure you've heard ofProject Blue Book at least,
right.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
I have not.
The only blue project I'mfamiliar with is Blue Beam, but
that hasn't happened yet.
Blue Beam, blue Beam.
We'll get into it after this,okay.
Speaker 1 (57:31):
Project Blue Book's a pretty well-known government
project because it was so public.
They took thousands of UFOreports from the general public
and they put a committee ofpeople together to investigate
it on behalf of the US Air Force.
And so they assigned onescientist to the group who was
not a member of the military,named Hynek, and Hynek was the
(57:53):
resident genius.
So he had to go around, listento everybody's stories, and he
was approaching this from ascientific perspective in the
beginning, and so he was able toexplain away most of what
people would bring forward.
But out of the thousands ofreports there was a few hundred
that he couldn't explain.
So when he would have internalreports with the US government,
(58:15):
they would tell him make it goaway.
And he'd be like I'm doingscience.
And they'd be like no, you'reworking for the government.
And so he was forced to givecrazy reports.
So there were the most popularone that everyone knows about
Multiple people saw an object,an orb-type object, in the sky
(58:36):
at night and it was movingerratically, which is a common
report these days, but in thosedays it wasn't.
So they sent Hynek and the teamout.
He interviewed everybody, hefound all the witnesses to be
totally credible and he reportedto the government we really
don't know what this is, we needto put more resources on this.
And they gave him the answer.
(58:57):
So he had to go on public TVand report that it was swamp gas
.
And he had to report that swampgas can cause the air to
spontaneously combust and it canlook like a ball and it can
move around.
And they had this scientist outthere.
Now he's just a show pony forthe government.
And so he started to get prettyuncomfortable with the whole
(59:18):
thing after a few years becausehe kind of switched his thinking
.
He's like there's reallysomething going on here.
He talked to so many peoplethat were totally credible and
things he saw that he couldn'texplain, like magnetic readings
at the site or radioactiveisotopes at a site where people
said they saw something.
He would record this stuff, seethat there was bad.
There was legitimate physicalevidence to back up the stories
(59:40):
these people are saying.
And then he'd have to publiclycome up with a crazy explanation
that would make it go away.
And we listened to it.
I heard this stuff on the newsat the time and I I remember
thinking it's all a bunch ofcrap, like all these people are
hoaxers and they're all tryingto get their five minutes of
fame.
And it did go away.
So the government actuallyreleased a report to the public
(01:00:03):
called the Condon Report, andthat report is given by a US
military person who basicallysays there's nothing here.
We're shutting the program down.
There's nothing worth lookingat, there's nothing of US
interest, defense interest oranything here.
All of this stuff is a bunch ofhokey pokey.
So they basically canceled thatproject and this is the end of
(01:00:25):
the government's involvement inanything paranormal.
Officially, no one ever hearsabout it again.
It becomes a culture of you'recrazy or you're a nut job.
This is proven to be false.
Anybody that thinks it is crazyand it dies.
Until Skinwalker Ranch happens,the UF government forms the All
(01:00:47):
Domain Anomaly ResolutionOffice in conjunction with
Bigelow, and they buy a piece ofland and investigate it for
over 20 years Now.
All the documentation thegovernment did is on video.
It's in multiple videos.
They have audio of it.
They have all this informationand so does Bigelow.
(01:01:09):
But Bigelow worked for thegovernment, with the government.
He cannot release anything heknows as long as he's alive.
It's all got to stay completelyprivate.
Bigelow sold the propertybecause his wife died and he
blamed Skinwalker Ranch for hiswife's death.
There's an effect called thehitchhiker effect.
So if you're around thesestrange things happening and you
(01:01:32):
go home, strange things happento you in your home.
They call it the hitchhikereffect.
And he was experiencing shadowfigures.
He was experiencing time loss.
He was experiencing strangelights that would follow periods
of fear when they were sleepingat night a feeling of being
watched.
Sleeping at night, a feeling ofbeing watched.
And his wife actually died of aheart attack.
(01:01:53):
And he attributes that to allof the stuff that they brought
home with them from hisinvestigations at Skinwalker
Ranch.
It wasn't just him.
There were other scientists andgovernment officials that were
scared for their familiesbecause of what was happening to
them in their homes, so theyliterally sold this property and
stopped the investigation.
And the other thing was theycould never get solid proof
(01:02:14):
Anything that happened.
They could never get it tohappen again in the same way it
happened the first time.
It would always be somethingdifferent the next time and it
was driving them crazy.
So they might see a UFO in thesky and a glowing orb shedding
lights, and the next nightthere'd be shadow men or a
lizard guy or some giant animalmaking tracks and it was, like
(01:02:36):
always, something totallydifferent, totally unrelated,
seemingly from a completelydifferent kind of like you know
discipline of science that itwould take to even study it.
So he sold the ranch to aprivate real estate mogul in
Utah who then made the onecondition when he sold it was
you have to continue research onthe property.
So he can't turn it into avacation destination, he can't
(01:03:00):
make it like a touristattraction.
So he made it into a TV show onNetflix.
He hired a team of scientists.
He hired one guy who had beenknown to work with the
government in various projectsand he started investigating
skinwalker ranch publicly.
And they release all theirfindings.
A lot of it, the best parts theyput into the show, obviously,
(01:03:22):
but the rest of it they'reworking with universities and
you know they I mean they'veuncovered stuff and sent it to
be studied and they get theresults from labs, and so a lot
of this is well documented.
And so they find out that theguy they hired was actually
working for a new governmentagency unbeknownst to them.
So the same organization thathad owned Skinwalker Ranch hired
(01:03:47):
a guy named Travis, who is aphysicist, to get on that team.
He was their guy at the newgovernment agency, but they were
not contracted with this realestate guy, so they embedded one
of their guys in his show andit wasn't until the second or
third season he stepped downfrom the job and it was now
(01:04:07):
public that he was the directorover there and they were taken
aback like you're what?
We were letting you in on allof our stuff and you were a
government agent the whole timeinvestigating this stuff.
This is literally happening,well documented see, and and
even still.
Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
And, mikey, I'd love to get your take on this, but as
a religious man, I mean, I Iattribute that to spiritual,
especially whenever you talkabout the hitchhiker effect.
You know spirits can attach toobjects, you know, and that's
you know through the CatholicChurch, that's been well
documented.
You know, with some of theirexorcisms which a lot of them
are garbage.
But you know they actually havea division that is specifically
(01:04:43):
for exorcism and stuff likethat.
But, mikey, what's your take onthat?
I attribute it to spirits.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
We are going to break here.
End the episode Come next week.
Listen to Mikey answer this anda whole lot more in part two.
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