February 28, 2024 • 64 mins
Have you ever pondered the intricate tapestry of beliefs that unite men in the quest for enlightenment? Right Worshipful Dwayne Marshall, the sage behind "A Past Master's Thoughts" on Facebook, graces us with his wisdom and experience, weaving through his diverse Masonic journey. From being a lodge master to engaging with the Eastern Star and Kansas DeMolay, Dwayne embodies the spirit of Freemasonry. His insights are a beacon for those navigating the delicate balance between personal growth and fraternal duties, sparking conversations that challenge and inspire.
Brother Sean Cooney, Junior Warden of Sarasota Lodge 147, joins us to share the beauty of Freemasonry's embrace of all faiths—a mosaic of beliefs enriching our brotherhood. This episode is a testament to the power of tolerance, showcasing how respectful debate and learning from differing perspectives fortify the bonds of fraternity. We reveal that the lodge is not just a place of ritual but a sanctuary where brotherly love flourishes, painting a portrait of a community that finds strength in its diversity.
Venture with us beyond the lodge doors into the realms of personal life and relationships. I openly reflect on my polyamorous journey, drawing parallels with the core Masonic value of honest communication. We also celebrate the unshakeable camaraderie that defines our brotherhood, from charity fundraisers to the intimate 'junior deacon hour'. As we raise our glasses in togetherness, this conversation is an invitation to exemplify love and compassion in every facet of life—Masonic or otherwise—championing the timeless principles of our ancient fraternity.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
One.
We have to decide what to dowith the time the skeleton does.
You've reached the internet'shome for all things masonry.
Join on the level podcasts aswe plumb the depths of our
ancient craft and try to unlockthe mysteries, dispel the
fallacies and utilize theteachings of freemasonry to
(00:23):
unlock the great myth withineach of us.
I have you now, Yay, Okay,welcome back to on the level
podcast.
(00:43):
Hope you're enjoying our newintro as much as I am probably
not.
We have with us for thisepisode Worshipful and if I get
this wrong, you correct me,brother Worshipful Dwayne
Marshall, who is the owner andproprietor of the Facebook group
(01:04):
you may have seen Is it a pageor a group?
I don't know, We'll find outcalled the past master's
thoughts.
Welcome to the podcast, brother.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Oh, thank you, brother, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Excellent.
So you're probably most wellknown outside of your local area
for the past master's Facebook.
Is that a page or is that agroup?
No, it's just a page, just apage.
Okay, yeah, just a page.
So like, if you wouldn't mind,this podcast broadcasts all over
(01:34):
the world, so a lot of peoplearen't going to know who you are
.
If you wouldn't mind justgiving us a quick rundown on
your Masonic background.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I'm a past master of active lodge 158 out of Atchison
, Kansas.
I'm a member of Overland Park,where I was raised in 2011.
That's Overland Park 436.
Currently getting ready for mythird term as a district deputy
(02:06):
in the grand jurisdiction ofKansas, I'm the associate patron
with my Eastern Star chapter inLenexa.
Just found out yesterday I'mthe director of Masonic
relations for Kansas D-Malay.
Congratulations.
Oh thank you.
It's nice to find that outonline.
(02:27):
It's great and a member of theFree Runners Masonic Order.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Free Runners Masonic Order.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
It's a motorcycle group and it's a worldwide
organization.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Oh okay, Similar to the widow's sons.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Similar to the widow's sons.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Okay, and third time district deputy To me that
sounds strange.
In the jurisdiction of FloridaI don't know that they recycle
district deputies very often.
Is that something that iscommon in your jurisdiction?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
We do have it in our jurisdiction where guys will
serve more than one term.
They like it when brothers willserve two.
A lot of times it's one.
I really enjoy it.
You get to go out and visit theother lodges and work with the
(03:30):
brothers and I love sitting inthe lodges and seeing what they
do, so it's really a good thingfor me.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
And now the reason I know you is because I'm actually
very active on Facebook.
You're very active on Facebookand you created this past
master's thoughts page and youshare your thoughts about the
fraternity.
Tell me a little bit about howthat started, or why that
(04:01):
started, if you would, ohabsolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I was elected as master of my lodge in Atchison
and realized which and I can getin later how I ended up in
Atchison.
But they elected me as masterand I realized that there were a
lot of chairs that I hadn't setin, a lot of knowledge that I
(04:33):
didn't have as I progressed andhad questions, not just
questions about the fraternity,questions about life in general
and how masonry impacts us andthat kind of thing.
And I decided that if I havethose questions, so do other
(04:54):
people.
So let's start a page and let'sjust ask them.
The entire focus and the onlyreason for that page is just to
get people to think and converse.
We have a number of podcastsyourself, wince, came you
(05:15):
winding stairs, round table,historical life, any number of
them that touch on history andthe esoteric side and okay,
let's discuss day to day howdoes this impact you?
And there will be times thatbrothers ask how I come up with
(05:35):
things.
I have brothers send differentthoughts and say, hey, this
would go great on your page.
What do you think about this?
None of those articles reallycome to mind until I'm sitting
on my front porch with threefingers of libation and a stick
(05:56):
and I just start writing.
It's all spur of the momentstuff, really.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Okay, yeah, you don't have like a long process where
you're self editing stuff andcoming back to it the next day.
You're just kind of go forwardand post it.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
A lot of those are written on my cell phone, which
would explain the number oftypos that brothers see when
they read those.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
I've never published anything that wasn't replete
with typos.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Oh man, I'm telling you, my wife will get a hold of
me when I'm done and says youmight want to jump on the laptop
and edit that because that wasa mess.
Yeah, but that's how that allhappens.
It's all just spur of themoment, what happens right there
, kind of like a dailymeditation.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, so pretty much the things you're writing about
are things going on in your life.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
A lot of it and your Masonic life.
Well and personal a lot of it.
There are some topics that Imight need to back up on a
little bit.
I went back and read some ofthem and over the last week or
so religion has kind of been aforefront.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So, like that's a touchy topic, you feel like
people don't want to really godown that rabbit hole.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
You know, and I was thinking about that earlier, and
you post something aboutreligion, and I come from a very
eclectic background and I tendto make a lot of jokes about it
and that sort of thing.
I was born in the 70s andreally grew up in the 80s, when
(07:40):
and I mean no offense to anybodyif this is whatever but in a
time when Jesus wasn't the sonof God, it was Jimmy Swagger-
yeah, and the mega churches youknow, in the mega church thing
and I grew up in a veryevangelical background and I
tease that you know thedifference between the church
(08:01):
that I was raised in andAppalachian snake handlers was
we didn't handle snakes.
And you know, brothers look atme and they go.
You're not laughing and I'mlike because I'm not kidding.
But I came from that and Istudied in some conservative
(08:23):
churches and some liberal ideasand was initiated into a
neo-pagan group involved withWicca and that's a very eclectic
thing and I understand thatwithin Lodge we say that we
don't discuss religion andpolitics as a gentlemanly thing.
(08:46):
But there are times and reallycalling out the craft and again,
I was talking with you earlierabout listening to some of the
past episodes that folks getupset.
I have to ask are we reallymature enough to have those
conversations without someonegetting upset?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I think that in a format like we're having right
now one man to one man it's alot easier to have those
conversations.
When you're on the internet,like Facebook, for example, it
gets really difficult to havethose conversations for a
variety of reasons I think.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
So I could see that you have a.
I could see you having a toughtime with like a Facebook page
and the comments and and theconversation.
Oh, we have a.
We have a mystery guest whojust joined.
This is the man that introducedme to you.
His name is brother Sean Cooney, who's the current junior
(09:54):
warden of the mighty SarasotaLodge 147.
Welcome to the level podcast,sean my brother.
Look at that man's gettingcheered welcome, welcome.
Thank you for coming, yeah ofcourse.
(10:15):
I told Sean we were recording infive and he thought I said at
five, so that's my fault.
That's my fault.
I got fat fingers when I text.
I can't do it properly.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
How we doing right where's your book?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Not bad how you doing , sean.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Not so bad.
Good to hear you again.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Good to hear and see you.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
We were like we covered his masonic History and
we were just talking about kindof what he does on Facebook and
kind of got into itsconversation about One of the
only things he has to checkhimself with his conversations
about religion, and so we weretalking about how, like this,
(10:56):
this format now we have threeguys even this kind of a
situation is a hell, a loteasier than going on Facebook
and try to talk online Aboutreligion.
That's a whole another world ofYou're opening up because you
know people act different whenthey're not in front of your
face oh, most of all and Secondof all, you get a lot of people
(11:16):
that you didn't even want in theconversation, that chime it and
People are easily offendedabout their beliefs too.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
You know, and I think that's one of the most
important things about Freemason, and one of the things that I
value so much about Freemasonry,is it where it doesn't matter
what religion you choose.
You know what I mean.
We're still brothers, you knowI mean, and we all believe in
the thing that's right and webelieve in.
You know, the all of these goodbooks.
(11:43):
They all have such great,beautiful things in them, you
know, and if you live your lifeby those books, I mean most
likely you're doing all right,you know.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, I mean it's something that we have.
If you've ever listened to thepodcast of the last several
years, it's an issue that comesup all the time and you know our
my personal belief is a Masonwho's been active in Masonry and
had a lot of experience in itis the intention is to keep the
(12:13):
lodge, business and state ofcommunications Clean and pure.
We act very different in astated or call communication
than we do in the dining halland we act different there than
we do at the fire pit around myhouse drinking bourbon and
having cigars.
Right, there's like levels tothis stuff and what we do in a
business meeting or callcommunication is absolutely off
(12:35):
limits, in my mind, andrightfully so to discussions
about religion and politics forthe purposes of debate, I think
in education that involves areligion.
No one's complaining about thatand Lodge, I've seen it many
times.
However, the conversations thatwe're gonna we might be having
like right now Are gonna be awhole nother thing and I don't
(12:56):
think that there's ever been anintention to prohibit Mason's
from talking about religion orpolitics as people Right.
This is really just limited tothe stated and call
communications in the Lodgeagreed so.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I would, I would.
I would agree with that.
To a to To a point.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
No, you have to wholeheartedly agree to it.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Oh well, no, I've walked into.
I've walked into a, into ameeting, and and a brother made
the comment that if you're notof this faith or this flavor of
faith, and you can't be a Mason,and I'm like, then it's time
for me to to walk down thestreet because I don't meet that
(13:43):
I One of the most beautifulthings and it's actually part of
what drew me to masonry in thefirst place, because I was
seeing a lot of, a lot ofdifferent Organizations and a
lot of different groups thatthat claimed the very thing that
that masonry professes Right,we love everybody, we're on the
(14:05):
level, we're this, we're that.
And In the 11, 12 years thatI've been a Mason, this is an,
all honesty, one of the onlyplaces that I've ever really
found it, yeah, andwholeheartedly Believe in it.
(14:26):
I'm very passionate about it.
That's why I write about it alot, and you have a perspective
that is, in the minority in thefraternity.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Okay, and being in the minority.
I was talking to somebody aboutthis a friend of mine, a
business associate and he wastalking about protesters and how
horrible protesting was, and Iwas trying to explain to him
that when you're in the minority, you have to try to make
yourself heard a lot harder, andso that's why you're seeing
protests from any minority groupor that's why they're talking
(15:02):
about something that involvesthem Specifically, because they
have to raise awareness to theissues they're dealing with so
the majority can have an earTowards their issue and maybe
start to change their thinkingabout that issue.
If they don't talk about it,it's never gonna change.
So conversation has to happen.
Clearly, the brother you'retalking about Doesn't okay for
(15:25):
those that aren't masons and forthose that are longtime masons.
The guy you just described it'snot knowledgeable about masonry
.
We can all agree on that right.
He had no business Saying thatif you're not a specific
religion, you shouldn't join,because that is not part of the
tenants of our fraternity.
It's quite the opposite of thetenants of our fraternity, yeah
(15:48):
it's freedom of religion.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
That's why why we have that as a right in our
Constitution, you know, and it'svery prevalent in Freemasonry
and it should be.
That's why we can put differentbooks on our authors.
You know, whenever you want totake your obligation, you just
have to believe in that higherpower and you have to have some
kind of Faith so we can tie up.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Oh, yeah, most certainly.
And and one of the things thatI really enjoy and I've set in
lodge With Muslim brothers oneof one of my really good friends
as a Jewish brother.
They have so much to teach meto step outside of my comfort
zone and and what really makesthat individual tick and I
(16:39):
talked pretty regular about, andI was chaplain of my lodge at
one point, and I would alwaysend my closing prayer with
please allow us to take thelight of masonry into a darkened
world.
I truly believe and absolutelybelieve that it's the one thing
(17:00):
that will save it.
Yeah, and if you don't takemasonry out of the lodge room,
masonry will die and that's justit.
So here's I've said I want to goand and and visit different and
, while we're still on the onthe on the spirituality side of
(17:21):
things, but visit a muslimmosque, a Sikh temple, a hindu.
What makes the people in mycommunity tick?
And it's really your heart andyour faith.
And so how can I better takemasonry into the outside world
(17:42):
in a way that you'll understandand you'll relate and be on the
level, not just with my brothersin the lodge, but with everyone
I come in contact?
Speaker 1 (17:52):
with.
I've said this many times onthe podcast, that and that I
think about things weirdly, Iknow, but I really see the lodge
and the way that they'retelling us to behave as training
wheels for the real world.
It's like training wheels.
It's like gives you supportstructure.
This is look, you're doing it,you're walking the straight line
(18:13):
now you're riding that bike andthen when you go out in the
world, you got to take thetraining wheels off.
Man, you got to be that way.
Now, in the street, the sameway you are in the lodge.
I've met men that have beenelevated to positions of great
power, that act one way in thelodge and are completely
different outside the lodge.
You would think they're twodifferent people and they are
(18:35):
two different people.
You're getting two differentversions of that person.
That isn't masonry.
Masonry is to be that way allthe time.
So you'd hope that thatbrother's working on that and
trying to do that.
But that's the goal for all ofus as masons is to try to bring
the light of frame masonry intothe world and it has to be part
of who you are.
If you're going to do that, itcan't be something you play at
(18:57):
twice a month.
Absolutely.
The tolerance for religion isdefinitely part of that.
I say tolerance, because youcan't expect you know.
It's like my wife's father'sfrom another country.
He's from a different era andtrying to get him to understand
what non-binary, trans,cisgender is is never going to
(19:22):
happen.
I got to get him to understandthat there are gay people in the
world.
You have to take steps.
You can't go from A to Z.
You've got to go through theprocess of learning and
educating yourself.
Masonry really helps you takethose steps of learning about
yourself, your biases, thethings that you do that hurt
(19:43):
people, and looking,internalizing it and learning
how to change those behaviors tobe the most positive,
contributing member of anyrelationship you're in, whether
it's your work, family, right,your church, whatever the
situation is to be a positive,contributing factor to that
community.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
That's absolutely true and because Masonry, you
know, we say it's a fraternity,it's a philosophy, it's and it's
all these things.
But you're absolutely right, itis a relationship not just with
your brothers-in-law, with thepeople in your community, but
it's a relationship withyourself and you're really
(20:28):
learning who you are man.
It was a lodge, massachusetts,I believe.
That did the Ben Franklinvideos, yeah, and they were
talking about the measure of aman and Masonry, measuring who
you are.
It's discovering yourself anddiscovering you.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, and you know the thing about the.
It's like if you are only, ifyou're only subjected to the
same thing over and over again,you never grow.
There's no opportunity forgrowth there.
Like you said, you want tovisit a Muslim mosque, you want
to visit a Sikh temple, becausenot because you want to convert
(21:15):
your faith, right, it's becauseyou want to understand people
better.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Where are they thinking the way they think?
Where are they coming from?
What are their hopes and dreamsand fears?
And you get that from lookingat their faith.
You can understand a personbetter.
It doesn't mean that you'regoing to try to convert yourself
just to look at a thing.
It's like sports.
If you're on a sports team andyou only practice with your
teammates and never play anotherteam, how good is that team
(21:44):
going to be in a playoff wherethey finally play another team
that's been playing other teamsall season?
That's not going to go so wellfor that team.
Like you have to test yourself,you have to test your beliefs
and be open to havingconversations with people about
things that you don't understand.
And you find that most of them.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
there's so many similar points of view, just
told in a different story, butthey are saying the same, based
on the same basic principles.
There's so much beautifulsymbolism and, just like in
Freemasonry, we have all ofthese symbols and illustrations.
They're just all of thesebeautiful lessons that are just
(22:25):
taught in a different way.
People want to argue about itand then kill each other over it
.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
For us.
Like Jackie, I think, wrote it.
He said Mason, we understandalliteration and we understand
allegory and taking morallessons from things and into a
Mason.
You don't care if that'sChristianity or Egyptian
mythology or Shilveric storiesfrom Middle Ages.
The point is you're looking forthe moral lesson to take from
(22:57):
it and try to learn from it.
And the second view, as a Mason, start trying to prove that
Hiram Abif was a real man andwhen he lived and what he ate
for lunch.
You're losing the point of itall.
You look crazy, right.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
And, like you said, you don't have to shift your
beliefs and like no one's askinganyone to change their beliefs
at all, like I want everybody tobelieve hard in what they
believe and I think that's good,I really do.
And if you are a superreligious person and whatever
that may be, I think that couldbe really good for you.
It's just to be open and to beable to pick apart those things
(23:30):
and find those beautiful aspectsand lessons, and whether it's
Egyptian or what, to be able tofind those pretty lessons and
apply them to your life, I thinkis really valuable, and that's
what we do in Masonry all thetime.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Pretty much, yeah.
And so what, if you don't mindme asking, Dwayne, it sounds
like you're in a minorityreligion.
What religion would youprescribe to these days If?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
you're willing to share.
No, no, no, no, absolutely.
And, like I said, I've lookedat another or at a number of
different faiths.
I found that I'm not and, muchlike Sean was saying, I'm not
really a fan or subscribednecessarily to an organized
(24:21):
religion, but try and see thespirituality in all of them.
I think that there's.
If I was to practice dailyspiritual ritual, it's probably
more wicked and an earth basedflavor than anything else.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
That's a really hard one to knock.
When you have a religion thatworships like the sun, it's hard
to discount that the sun's realand exists and is worthy of
worship.
That's a tough one to reallykind of knock, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Most certainly it is, and it's really interesting
with the seven liberal arts andsciences and how that tends to
tie in a bit.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, you know, I had a candidate that I brought into
the fraternity and he wentthrough his first degree.
He's a pagan and so I wasexcited because they do a lot of
ritual and stuff and he isspiritual.
So he met all the requirementsto be a Mason and he got his
inner apprentice degree and hecalled me that night and he said
(25:31):
what the hell was that?
All I saw was Christian, thisChristian, that Christian,
everything Like.
Listen, man, open your eyes,think deeper.
Okay, Look at the look at thesymbol that they explained to
you in the inner apprenticedegree the circle with the lines
.
Okay, Take away.
Take away the images on thesurface and what you're seeing
(25:53):
are ancient hermetic principles.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Right, this is your belief system and it is their
belief system.
It's all in there.
It's not like one thing iswrong and the other one's right.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
It's just flavors like you said labels, and I
imagine it'd be kind of kind ofhard to be open and it shouldn't
be, you know and Masonry, weshould just be open.
But I imagine there's a lot ofpushback from people that don't
necessarily understand what thatis.
You know what I mean To be apagan, or to a wick or anything
(26:31):
like that, because what theybelieve is against that.
You know what I mean.
But it also says in the samebooks that you shouldn't judge
that other person and you shoulddo nothing but love that other
person.
So you know, I think that wethat's what our duty should be,
you know is to love yourneighbor as yourself.
(26:51):
That's a Christian one, right,you know what I'm saying.
But it's a good one.
It's a good one, you know.
Don't kill.
That's another Christian one.
I think we can all agree.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
It's probably a good one.
You needed.
That one is amazing to me.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Well, you know what I'm saying.
We just got to be careful notto judge each other.
You know for what we believe inand judge the man by his
character.
You know what I mean, not hisbeliefs, right?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
That's worthy of judgment, the way, a person acts
is worthy of judgment.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
It was really funny when I did my first degree a
number of years ago.
I went through and did thefirst section and I'm going back
out of the, out of the lodgeroom and and I'm chuckling and
laughing a little bit and one ofthe guys looks at me and he
goes I don't understand what's.
What's funny?
I don't understand.
(27:47):
I just looked at him and hegoes wait a minute, all right.
And I tell him I'm going thatisn't new, I've done that.
And he looked at me and he goeswait a minute, you're wicking,
aren't you?
And I go uh-huh, yeah, I am,that's not new.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Actually I have a couple Wiccan friends in the
fraternity.
Like between two lodges I havethree friends that are Wiccans.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
I don't want you Buddhist friends and Hindu
friends.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yes, yeah, but then there's a lot of.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Majority is mostly Christian, but then you have,
you know, you have plenty of theJewish faith as well, like we
had one of the members of ourlodge straight up convert to
Judaism, which was pretty cooland interesting.
You know, mm-hmm, I say liveand let live.
You know, irritates me, I'm notgonna lie.
It irritates me a little bitwhen people are, you know,
(28:39):
pushing on each other to believesomething that you know,
because it in all reality, we'rejust on this planet traveling
to our deaths and nobody forcertain Knows anything.
And I know a lot of peoplethat'll rub people the wrong way
too, because you know, if youbelieve hard enough, you can sit
there to be a fan.
But there's nothing that is, butthere's no certainty in life.
(29:01):
Certainty is madness.
If you are so certain aboutanything at all, you're a madman
.
You have to be because nobodyreally knows these things.
Until you're there, you canbelieve, but nobody really knows
.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
So yeah, just, we're not to suck live life and try
not to try not to suck, but andand you're right, and if you're
so certain, you're so closed inthat you don't open to new
thoughts and new ideas, andwe're supposed to be free
thinkers and Open to that.
(29:35):
I mean, yeah, you know,everyone has something to teach
through life experiences.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
So what closes you off to love really?
You know, I'm saying I thinkthat's like the biggest Aspect
in all religion it's such a hugepart about being alive is love,
and when you close yourself offto it it's I don't know, it
makes me sad a little, you know,because that's really what it
is.
It's like, no, I can't befriends with that guy because
you know what I mean or you knowYou're casting judgment where's
(30:03):
a different hat than I like towear to church, so I can't be
with that guy you know You'rejust closing yourself off to
love and I think it's soimportant we lose sight of that
and in the world today Is justloving each other.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah, I think that is definitely 100% the Masonic.
The essence of masonry islearning how to love your fellow
man, even if you don'tunderstand them or agree with
them.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Mm-hmm, for sure, absolutely very, very true.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Those are the training wheels that we get in
the Lodge room that we'resupposed to carry out into the
rest of the world.
And Not everybody makes it.
Yeah, and not everybody caresto try, and that's okay.
You know, people come tomasonry for different things and
they get different things outof it.
I understand that.
But for me personally, I likehim all about masonry and I like
to surround myself with thereal deal, talking about guys
(30:53):
that are looking to take ajourney in life Of
self-improvement andself-discovery.
Those are the people I like tosurround myself with as a Mason.
And you know, I think that'swhat I tell people.
I get a lot of calls fromthrough the podcast of people
complaining about theirsituation in In their lodge
there, that it's not right andthe things that aren't good
(31:16):
about the people that are intheir lodges, and what I, the
the council I give them is go toanother lodge and Start seeking
people that are good mason'sand only associate with them,
and you're about to have acompletely different masonic
experience than what you justhave been going through for the
last year, two years or half along it's been.
Don't try to change thosepeople.
(31:37):
Just go.
Just go find another placewhere you can find people that
are more like when you're at inyour masonic journey.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
And I and I I agree with you as well, as I was
listening to some of the backepisodes.
Today there was some discussionabout taking a new brother and
going and visiting a lodge andand Working with with Grand
Lodge.
I get emails every once in awhile of people interested in
(32:07):
wanting to join the fraternityand I'll send those emails.
We have nine lodges within myarea that's not too terribly far
here in here in the Kansas Cityarea and I will send that email
to each one of those lodges andthen get a hold of that brother
and say let me take you andlet's go visit some of these.
(32:28):
Well, yeah, but lodge ABC isthree blocks from my house.
Well, okay, that's great, buttheir focus may not be right
what best suits you?
Or, you know, you may feel morecomfortable at a lodge, maybe
(32:50):
Ten blocks down the road, youknow whatever.
But but let's go visit thoselodges and find the one that
really works for you, not just,hey, there's a lodge next door.
I.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Think that that's wise and more people need to do
that and, you know, I Think thefraternity in general has gotten
itself into.
Many of the lodges have gottenthemselves to places where
they're desperate for membershipand they just want to get some
people in the door.
And the conversation about isthis the best lodge for you
(33:27):
isn't happening all the time, asas often as it should, and
sometimes there are lodges thatare a better fit for certain
people.
I mean I I talk about that allthe time.
I Am not a member of the lodge.
I started and I found a lodgethat was a better fit for me and
the lodge that I'm in now.
I often refer people to thelodge I came from because I
think that lodge might beactually a better fit for them
(33:49):
based on their situation.
You gotta you know you got tomatch up the person with the
lodge, because, oh, it's amazinghow different the cultures are,
different lodges.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Yeah, yeah, dynamics.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Did I lose you, cooney?
Are you still here?
Oh, I'm here.
Okay, cool yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
I'm here.
It's definitely differentdynamics and I didn't see you,
no matter where you go.
I think you know what I mean inand out, and I just know it
yeah, Ah your video is going inand out.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
I just noticed it.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
It happens sometimes when you press the button like
this.
So where you go, I mean itreally it does change from lodge
to lodge, even though I'm notthere.
There's different leadershipand control, there's different,
you know, levels of motivation,but one thing that should all be
universal is our tenants andour beliefs.
(34:47):
We and we should really, youknow, be I Don't know I want to
use the word aggressive you knowI mean to uphold to that.
You know we should all,regardless of who's there in the
dynamic, that one thingshouldn't change from lodge to
lodge to lodge, and that's freemasonry in its own.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, we all share the same tenants and beliefs and
the digest of Masonic law, atleast within our jurisdictions,
and and all of them should beliving that at least, and that's
one thing like when I was themaster of a lodge.
If you went to my installationon day one, that was my speech.
We're gonna try to be goodmasons.
All year I tried to be anexample of a good Mason.
(35:26):
At the end the last thing Isaid was I hope this was good
for the Lodge and I hope that wewere.
I hope that at the end the bestcompliment you can, you can
give me or any of my officers isyou you are a good Mason.
Like that should be the highesthonor for us.
To get that.
Praise like that means that youlearned and you're trying to do
better and that that that shitis hard.
(35:49):
Women is hard to do.
You're talking about.
The reason that people cling tothings and that they're so sure
is because it's easy to do that.
You don't have to considerother people's opinions, ideas,
you don't have to question yourown Ideas or are accepted truths
(36:10):
.
It's easy to live that way.
It's much harder to openyourself to the fact that you
don't know everything and You'remost likely never gonna know
everything.
That's not an easy way to livethis life well, I oh go ahead
Sean.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
No, absolutely Go ahead, brother, I.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah, brother, brother's great, brother's great
, I it was.
It was interesting because atmy installation I, when I talked
to the lodge, I Told him thatthey're that I'd only found one
perfect Mason.
And and my entire life and andall the time that I was involved
(36:52):
in before and all that, I'veonly found a single perfect
Mason.
And I reached behind the podiumand pulled up a jar and and set
it on the podium and it saidyou know Perfect Mason?
And it was this Mason jar and Igo, that's it.
You're, you are going to fillthat with your experiences and
(37:13):
we end up we, we took donationsout of the year and whatever and
filled the jar and adopted afamily for Christmas that year.
Now, out of what we raised outof that jar, I've asked people
from time to time who the mostimportant person was in the
lodge and it's the, the friendthat you just placed in the
(37:38):
northeast corner, that he, he'syour foundation and I.
I would really throw it outthat we never, really ever,
leave that chair.
We're always in a state oflearning, in a state of
discovery, and Masonry is alifelong journey and it takes
(38:00):
your whole life to figure it out, really, and Absolutely you
know we're, we're learning aboutourselves in the fraternity and
we never really leave that spot.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
I Always say, like I don't know why they gave me so
many working tools.
I'm still just working on myfirst one.
They gave me you know what Imean, like Constantly working
that that common gavel out.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
You know I never be for sure, a lifelong.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Have you ever talked about the thing?
I brother, cliff Bernetti,brought this up when he was
doing an education, I believe.
But um, the perfect stone isnot Smooth and and shiny.
If it was completely smooth andcompletely perfect, it wouldn't
hold mortar, you know.
(38:48):
It would just slide off, itwould be no adherence.
So it takes those extra pits inthere and a little bit of
imperfection in order for it tobe Fit for a builder to use it.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
You know, I mean, I thought that was a cool thing, I
said that is I like that andit's like it's true and I there
we did an episode about this Ilike to surround myself, I said,
with good masons, but alsobroken people, because they
understand the value ofeverything in life, they
understand the value of love,they understand the value of
(39:21):
like being respected, and theyaren't going to take those
things for granted.
And so you know, someone that'scome out of some crap in their
background and dealt with someReally bad shit in their life is
somebody that's usually reallyinteresting first of all, but
not boring people, and and theydon't take anything, especially
your relationship, for granted.
So I love being around peoplelike that, because I'm a person
(39:44):
like that, I guess.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Well, I am like when I first John, I was like y'all
really know, I mean be like youknow.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Well, and and it says it's those imperfections that,
like you were saying, that makeus unique, yeah, and and give us
the opportunity to Showourselves to other people,
because and we're kind ofdancing around around the word a
little bit, but it makes usvulnerable and we have to be
(40:18):
vulnerable to our brothersbecause that makes us open and
raw and honest, which you know.
Some of the stuff that that Iwrite and I post it's that's,
that's very raw, that is that ishow I am, and being open and
being honest to everybody andand those those articles have
(40:44):
gone around the world.
I've had guys from from Englandand wherever go hey man, can I
use this?
A masonic education, and it'swow, you guys are really hurting
for a masonic head.
Okay yeah, sure you know, feelfree.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
No, man, you never know what other people are going
through and how much help it isfor you just to say things out
loud that other people arethinking and aren't saying.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Well.
I'm a fan boy?
I'm definitely a fan boy.
I always love your, your posts.
They always give me somethingto chew on, you know.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
I mean, there's always something there, you know
, something to think about, ifnothing else, just you know, I
mean he's at it again, you knowwell, and and I appreciate that
and that was part of of why Istarted writing those, because
if I thought it, somebody elseis thinking about it, let's
discuss it.
(41:30):
And if you disagree with me,great, I love it when people you
know I go up and I get the padon the back going Good Lord,
right, where's being great?
That man?
That's awesome, that'swonderful.
Okay, thank you.
But I also love it more whenyou know I didn't completely
agree with you, and here's why.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, now you're having a conversation which is
what you're gonna do.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Let's be open about it.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Okay, now we talked about religion.
You said, I could ask youanything.
I can ask you anything.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Feel okay, roll the dice.
Let's see what you got.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Okay, three two, one fight.
Okay, here's the deal.
You are not in a traditionalrelationship, are you sir?
Speaker 2 (42:28):
I love you, chris.
Thank you, brother, uh-huh no.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
I am not.
Is this something you'recomfortable talking about?
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Uh, sure, we can, we can talk about it.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Okay, so we in my lodge in Sarasota, we have
pretty much Everything under thesun, I think, represented in
our brothers.
Yes, now, the one thing wedon't have, uh, but we do
actually have an.
Uh, I know and I'm not gonnacall out the lodge of the
(43:01):
brother but there is somebody inour district that is in a
polyamorous, amorousrelationship.
You don't have it in my lodge.
That's probably the one thingwe don't have as far as I know.
But, uh, I do believe that youmay be in that situation.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Yeah, I've heard rumors.
Yeah, yeah.
You got you got two ladies.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
I, yes, yes, I do.
I need to know how that happens, please, and I would like a
playbook that we can uh go byourselves To make that happen in
our life, um.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
I had my hands full of warm.
Yeah, I got my actually it wasreally kind of funny.
I had a past grandmaster askedme the same question and every
time we talk in private he'slike hey man, how does that work
?
And I'm going.
Well, you know it's not foreverybody.
Yeah um, I Met uh Jennifer atfirst off me and my wife, my
(43:55):
legal wife.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
We have been married.
Married now what?
Speaker 2 (43:59):
13 years wonderful rock solid.
I met Jennifer actually uh,doing some work between my
motorcycle group and, uh, dimalay.
Uh, there was a radio stationhere in Kansas City that was
(44:19):
doing a uh A thing for veteransand we went and collected uh,
hygiene products, socks, thatkind of stuff to take to the
local va and I picked them upand, uh, matter where she were
Excuse me, matter where sheworked and you know you're,
(44:39):
you're kind of cute, that's youknow and went on and kind of
left it and A few years laterI'd had bariatric surgery and
and all that.
And uh, we showed up at a dimalay event.
Me and Jennifer liked to teasethat we started dating over a
dead brother and it was a day ofremembrance and honor of frank
(45:02):
land Found her, a dima lay,who's buried here in Kansas City
.
So we went to the memorialservice and she was there and we
started Dating after that andthings just took off.
Now where we've been togetherabout three years, everybody,
everybody's happy, everybody'scool, the the thing that really
(45:25):
revolves around this and, by theway, I am not a preacher for
polyamory it works for some andit doesn't for others and uh, it
takes a lot of effort, a lot ofwork and a lot of open
communication and a lot of beinghonest with yourself.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, I will imagine, because Even with two people,
communication is difficult.
I can imagine with three howmuch more difficult it would be
if you're not being open andcommunicating.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Oh yeah, we is.
We as a, a family unit, havehad to sit down and we've had
some very, very roughconversations, um, but we've
grown from them, uh, because,much like in life and and
masonry and for the love of god,I'm not really trying to tie
polyamory and masonry togetherbecause there's some brothers
(46:19):
now pulling their hair out andchris, you're gonna get phone
calls and all of this Um, but itdoes.
It requires being open andhonest, being on the level,
being upright, being square it,speaking your truth of who you
are and trying to understandwhere that other person's coming
(46:39):
from.
So, Um, yeah it.
It can be incrediblyinteresting.
Um, I caught a lot of flak forit from, uh, some brothers in
the fraternity, basicallybecause jennifer is a brother's
daughter.
There there are some folks thatquestion Obligations in kansas
(47:05):
and and whatnot over that.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
But did you have a conversation with the brother.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yes, I most certainly did, and that brother is.
I go to his birthday and go tohis house regularly.
So but, and, and, and, and.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
There's nothing wrong with that, because it's as long
as you've spoken to the masonand he's agreed with you that
this is uh okay.
What's the problem?
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Well, and, and, and it comes down to again
communication and respect.
And if that brother, eventhough we're all legal adults I
mean I'm 53 and everybody's intheir 30s, and all that if he
would have said you know, I'mreally not comfortable with that
.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Just skipped over something.
You got two ladies in their 30sand you're in your 50s.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Oh, did I say that?
Speaker 1 (48:01):
What?
Let's say yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Oh well, yeah, thank you, but no, if that brother
would have said, hey, I'm, I'mnot Super comfortable with that,
then that would have been intostory.
Okay, we're, we're done, we'llgo grab a beer and some pizza,
and and at the end of the dayI'm going home, so it.
But yes, you, you are, you areaccurate in that and that's.
(48:29):
You know, that's not anythingI've ever really been shy about,
but yeah, there there are somebrothers that are comfortable
with that and some that aren'tyeah, well, you know You're not
asking them to join yourrelationship, you're just asking
them to accept you as a brother.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
That shouldn't be right now.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
That would be a little, that would be a little
weird.
I think our, my Nikki, my wife,uses the term Polly saturated.
She goes we're Polly saturated.
No more, we can't do no more.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
Polly saturated sounds gross, polyamorous sounds
romantic.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (49:16):
No, I'm living that live.
I can tell you what I'm notgonna do, though I'm not gonna.
I'm not gonna go after that.
Whoo, I said my hands full withone lady.
You are a monster to be able todo that.
Just a beastly back and takeall of the burden on in the
world.
So God bless you oh.
I think, women are burdens, butoh, Lord.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Oh, I think I think they take care of me more often
than not, and that's that's awonderful thing.
I'm very blessed.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
That's awesome, that really is cool.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Yeah, I.
I mean I Never been in thepolyamorous.
I only learned that this was athing Couple years ago, when
when I met somebody that was inone and I had to Google it
because I really didn'tunderstand what was going on.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
Yeah, I feel like Mormons or something.
You know what I mean.
Do that right Like morningsMormons.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
Oh, mormons, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
I thought that's what that was they used to, for sure
.
If you look in history, youknow what I'm saying.
It was common forever.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
I think Solomon had like three or six hundred wives,
something like that.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
Yeah, something like that I mean.
So it's not, it's not crazy atall.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
And lookie there.
And Solomon was credited asbeing the wisest man in the
world.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
So maybe, maybe he has more to teach us.
Uh, I don't know.
You have two.
Do you think you can handleanother 498?
Speaker 2 (50:43):
No, I have a hard time with two.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
I got a hard time with one.
No, she's great, she's great.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Well, I believe he was also one of the richest men
men to ever live, so maybe that,maybe you got to have a lot of
money to handle that many womenyou know.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
I yes.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
So you, when you post your past master's thoughts, as
you you alluded to earlier,you're usually sitting on your
porch Having a libation andsmoking a cigar.
Now, what is your favoritelibation in these pictures that
I see?
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Um, I Am a fan of.
Now, if I, if I have been areally, really good mason, I
will grab me a bottle ofbellveni.
I love my bellveni scotch.
However, I have found that, um,like, uh, jack Daniels or Jim
(51:48):
beam honey Is really good.
Sprinkle a little bit of seasalt in it and that's good stuff
.
No, that's, that's very goodstuff.
Um, I'll also get one and, uh,I have a cocktail smoker, I'll
put in on top and I'll smoke one.
That's, that's really prettydecent.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
No, I would do.
I would do the smoke on me.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
But yeah, oh, now I will say, I will say that, uh,
my cigars, because I am abrother that supports brothers,
so I smoke masonic cigars and Iam there's.
There's a specific band.
I'm really, really, reallytrying to get in the Kansas City
area and have uh passed a fewaround.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
What would?
Speaker 2 (52:36):
that be, if, if, if we might maybe be able to, uh,
if we might be able to Get threeruffian cigars.
I'm going to matter of fact,I'm sitting at, uh, my cigar
lounge right now and I'm gonnatalk with them and, uh, I gave
them some and I'm gonna see whatthey thought and have them
(53:00):
reach out to y'all.
I've been trying to.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
I certainly appreciate it, brother.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
I certainly appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (53:04):
I'll make sure we uh Send another little care package
out to you.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
That would be tragic.
Those might end up in a inanother article or few, oh well.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
I mean, but uh.
I know Right on, but no but I'mthe, the, the sales rep for
three ruffians.
So now you guys know.
And, and they are a few cigarscome to this guy.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
They're a very good stick.
Uh, they're a very good stickand I've done my best to send
some brothers your way when theyask.
Speaker 3 (53:40):
Well, we certainly do appreciate it.
We definitely do, and it's it'sreal cool to see that, you know
, I mean like I said, I'malready.
I'm a fan boy.
I love the, the pass, masterslots Anyway.
But every once in a while I'llscroll and I'll see one of ours
on there.
I'm like that's a three ruffian.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
It's fun when you see it in the wild like that.
It's like what?
Oh my goodness, it is reallycool.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
It's been a fun experience and I'm really
looking forward to the futuremoving forward.
I think it's we got nothing butgood things coming.
So Three ruffians cigars with.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
All in all fairness is a sponsor of the podcast, so
thank you for being on and thankyou for your contributions to
keep us going.
Of course, it does cost moneyto do this and we don't make
money, so sponsorship is greatlyappreciated.
Speaker 3 (54:25):
It is a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
But you know that that that's a.
You know people don't like tomix business and free masonry.
I've heard it.
I've gotten ridiculed for beingassociated with it.
But here's the thing If youenjoy a thing, you kind of want
to play with that thing, andthis is uh, this isn't a.
I don't think this is anendeavor to become
multi-millionaires Because offree masonry.
(54:49):
I think this is a group ofpeople that really enjoy Quality
stuff and want to raise money,for I think you give a
percentage all the proceeds to,uh, masonic body right.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
Yeah, to the shrine, absolutely yeah, we definitely.
Uh, we, we donate a percentageI believe it's like 10 of
everything we sell goes to theshrines international.
And then also we just did araffle for our brothers over at
liberty lodge and they ended upmaking I believe it was eight
hundred and sixty dollars profitfor their lodge and their
benefit, which is awesomebecause we love liberty.
(55:21):
Liberty has sera soda 147s backAll the time.
Every single thing that we do,they're they're showing out for
and we try and give them as muchlove in return.
I mean, it's our district ingeneral is really really tight
and we're really really lucky.
I don't think a lot of peoplerealize how lucky we are in our
district, but so we're alwaystrying to, we're always trying
to help out and we're definitelynot trying to make a million
(55:43):
bucks.
This is just something.
That is Hours, and it's masonicand the idea behind it too.
You know, some of us are alittle bit more rough around the
edges Me in particular, youknow and we relate to the guys
that do have a bourbon and a ora scotch and a cigar, and we can
talk about things and it's alittle bit more comfortable for
(56:03):
some than others and that's justwhat we promote, I think you
know, definitely not trying toget rich.
We're I mean, we show you thefinancial statements we're
definitely not getting rich.
There's money, yeah, it's.
It's just a fun journey and welike the camaraderie of the
craft and it's just, it's just afun thing to do.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Speaking you know, sean, and it's and it's fun that
you bring that up um, some ofthe best masonic education that
I've ever received has neverbeen in a large room, absolutely
.
I mean, you know you, you haveyour meeting and you have your
your time set aside for masoniceducation and and, and it's
(56:45):
great, and there's brothersthere and it's this way with
other organizations that thatI've been a part of.
The masonic education reallystarts when folks go home.
You, you close the lodge andfolks are, hey, I'm not going to
make it, I'm not going towhatever.
And A lot of times there's beena couple lodges that I've been
(57:07):
at During ddgm visits or justvisiting in general, whatever.
Uh, they'll have what they callthe junior deacon hour.
Well, they'll go down andthey'll pour three fingers and
have a cigar and sit down andhave discussions, like we're
having now, where I don't wantto say the gloves come off.
(57:27):
But it's a little bit more open, it's okay.
What do you want to know?
Let's, let's talk, and that'sreally some of the best masonic
education I've had has alwaysbeen after a lodge meeting.
Speaker 3 (57:41):
I agree wholeheartedly.
I think that's where trueFreemasonry happens.
I mean it's what we learn inthe lodge and we experience in
the lodge.
But where true Freemasonryhappens, I believe, is outside
of the lodge.
And our brother, um JohnSchaefer, who's also a partner
of mine for three roughians.
He has a, you know, a monthlylittle game that we play and
(58:05):
during that time we have moredeep conversations about real
things and we get into esotericsand talking about, like the
true thing that we're trying todo.
More often than not and you knowI probably Rub some people the
wrong way, but I tell a lot ofthe EA when they show up.
You know I'm saying like thisis where it happens.
You know what I mean.
(58:26):
Like this is where the realmasonry happens.
I mean it definitely.
Everything that we do for astated meeting is necessity and
it's important and it's it's,it's what makes us us.
But the the real work happenswhen you leave that lodger room.
You know, yeah, you get to hangout with your buddies and and
(58:48):
really get into stuff, and youknow it's not for everybody.
I'm not promoting drinking andsmoking either, you know.
I mean that's not for everybody.
I mean everybody Gets what theyneed from different places.
But for me personally, moreoften than not, over A good, a
good bourbon and a good cigar,I've really found some
insensitive things to work on,you know.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
What I love about the , the fun part of that, is you,
you, uh, you duane, you smoke,so hireman Solomon, cigars also,
yes, and hireman Solomon arethe two kings that are the
heroes of our stories.
And you, you juxtapose thatwith the three ruffians now who
are the three bad guys in ourstories, to kind of embrace
(59:34):
those uh Superfluities and vices.
So you've got this cooljuxtaposition of the heroes and
the uh, the bad guys, who areboth masonic cigar brands.
I think that's fun.
Speaker 3 (59:46):
I think it is too.
It's cool.
Speaker 1 (59:50):
That was clever.
Whoever came up with that idea,cleaver?
So, um, you know we're comingup on about an hour, which is
what I asked you for, and I doappreciate you giving us that
much time.
You know this isn't the format.
I think, duane, you said thiswas the first time you've ever
(01:00:11):
been on a podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
It is this.
This is a format that uh, uh,I'm getting comfortable with.
Uh, I'm not a huge publicspeaker, although, um, there,
there's an event coming up injuly that, uh, it, the the
speakers haven't been announced,but I have a feeling my name is
(01:00:34):
uh is going to show up formasonic on kansas.
Um, we'll, we'll see what, uh,what mason, what the masonic con
team wants to do with that, but, uh, yeah, this is.
This has been a fun experience.
How about you shaw?
Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
I hope to be on a podcast before, but on a video
log, anything like that.
Huh, have you ever been on apodcast?
Shaw, oh god no absolutely nothis first thing too.
Okay, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
But I hope to hear from duane more often.
Man, he's always got like areally yeah awesome perspective
on things.
You know what I mean?
I just love.
I love talking to him.
I really do.
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
No, I appreciate yeah we'll have to take like one of
your more like uh UhConversation starter topics and
like talk about that topic onthe podcast with you.
That'd be fun.
Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Oh, most certainly we'll do that and I'll play
around and see if I can get thecamera on my laptop.
That would be nice.
Whatever reason it's, it'sfailed on me.
Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
It'd be super cool to have like a little pass
master's thoughts every once ina while, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Yes, yes, we'll, we'll, we can live talk and see
if you can't make that peoplethat actually Comment on your
page to come in live andactually in an engage with us
while we're recording.
Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
That's the next level .
Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
That'd be, fun.
We're gonna be live streamingon facebook and youtube while
we're recording.
Uh, oh, that would you'll getaccess to the pre edited content
, which is always Way more juicythan the edited stuff you see.
Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
So I hope I get to see you on.
Uh, what was it?
July 27th?
Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Yeah, july 27th.
Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
Well, we're working on a little bit of a trip.
It just so happens to be july27th and I believe the
destination is kansas, so maybewe'll get you to have a drink
and a smoking person.
Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Well, I'll tell you first first rounds on me, right.
Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
I'll tell you.
I'll hold you to it.
So, dwayne, you got anopportunity to speak to the
entire world, all masonslistening anywhere in the world.
What would you like to leavethem with on the way out?
Man, I really put you on thespot there, didn't I?
Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Well, you did, and that's okay.
If we can find a way and andI'm gonna, and I'm gonna leave
this just just like I do my, myclosing prayers always, always,
look for a way to shine thelight of masonry into a darkened
world.
But remember, you're that light, it's you.
(01:03:12):
You make the difference in your, not just for yourself, but for
someone else.
Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Hmm.
I love it.
I love it, thank you, thank youNow, sean Cooney.
He's been it to think whatwould you like to leave the
listeners with on our way out?
He wasn't thinking, he's havinga snack maybe a sip a, a little
spirit.
Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
I would like to encourage our brothers To keep
that open mind and that openheart and to just really lean on
love and compassion, because Ithink it's Missing and the world
right now and I think we coulduse more of it.
And I just want to really drownthat into people and have
(01:04:04):
people think about that a littlebit more than they do.
Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Tolerance and love in our hearts.
And when you go out into theworld, remember You're
representing the whole ofFreemasonry.
To these people, you might bethe only mason they're ever
gonna meet and you're the lightin the darkness.
Thank you, brothers, for beingwith us today and I can't wait
to do it all again.
And thank you for listening toon the level podcast.
One.
We have to decide what to dowith the time the skeleton does.
You've reached the internet'shome for all things masonry.
Join on the level podcasts aswe plumb the depths of our
ancient craft and try to unlockthe mysteries, dispel the
fallacies and utilize theteachings of freemasonry to
(00:23):
unlock the great myth withineach of us.
I have you now, Yay, Okay,welcome back to on the level
podcast.
(00:43):
Hope you're enjoying our newintro as much as I am probably
not.
We have with us for thisepisode Worshipful and if I get
this wrong, you correct me,brother Worshipful Dwayne
Marshall, who is the owner andproprietor of the Facebook group
(01:04):
you may have seen Is it a pageor a group?
I don't know, We'll find outcalled the past master's
thoughts.
Welcome to the podcast, brother.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Oh, thank you, brother, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Excellent.
So you're probably most wellknown outside of your local area
for the past master's Facebook.
Is that a page or is that agroup?
No, it's just a page, just apage.
Okay, yeah, just a page.
So like, if you wouldn't mind,this podcast broadcasts all over
(01:34):
the world, so a lot of peoplearen't going to know who you are
.
If you wouldn't mind justgiving us a quick rundown on
your Masonic background.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I'm a past master of active lodge 158 out of Atchison
, Kansas.
I'm a member of Overland Park,where I was raised in 2011.
That's Overland Park 436.
Currently getting ready for mythird term as a district deputy
(02:06):
in the grand jurisdiction ofKansas, I'm the associate patron
with my Eastern Star chapter inLenexa.
Just found out yesterday I'mthe director of Masonic
relations for Kansas D-Malay.
Congratulations.
Oh thank you.
It's nice to find that outonline.
(02:27):
It's great and a member of theFree Runners Masonic Order.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Free Runners Masonic Order.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
It's a motorcycle group and it's a worldwide
organization.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Oh okay, Similar to the widow's sons.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Similar to the widow's sons.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Okay, and third time district deputy To me that
sounds strange.
In the jurisdiction of FloridaI don't know that they recycle
district deputies very often.
Is that something that iscommon in your jurisdiction?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
We do have it in our jurisdiction where guys will
serve more than one term.
They like it when brothers willserve two.
A lot of times it's one.
I really enjoy it.
You get to go out and visit theother lodges and work with the
(03:30):
brothers and I love sitting inthe lodges and seeing what they
do, so it's really a good thingfor me.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
And now the reason I know you is because I'm actually
very active on Facebook.
You're very active on Facebookand you created this past
master's thoughts page and youshare your thoughts about the
fraternity.
Tell me a little bit about howthat started, or why that
(04:01):
started, if you would, ohabsolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I was elected as master of my lodge in Atchison
and realized which and I can getin later how I ended up in
Atchison.
But they elected me as masterand I realized that there were a
lot of chairs that I hadn't setin, a lot of knowledge that I
(04:33):
didn't have as I progressed andhad questions, not just
questions about the fraternity,questions about life in general
and how masonry impacts us andthat kind of thing.
And I decided that if I havethose questions, so do other
(04:54):
people.
So let's start a page and let'sjust ask them.
The entire focus and the onlyreason for that page is just to
get people to think and converse.
We have a number of podcastsyourself, wince, came you
(05:15):
winding stairs, round table,historical life, any number of
them that touch on history andthe esoteric side and okay,
let's discuss day to day howdoes this impact you?
And there will be times thatbrothers ask how I come up with
(05:35):
things.
I have brothers send differentthoughts and say, hey, this
would go great on your page.
What do you think about this?
None of those articles reallycome to mind until I'm sitting
on my front porch with threefingers of libation and a stick
(05:56):
and I just start writing.
It's all spur of the momentstuff, really.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Okay, yeah, you don't have like a long process where
you're self editing stuff andcoming back to it the next day.
You're just kind of go forwardand post it.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
A lot of those are written on my cell phone, which
would explain the number oftypos that brothers see when
they read those.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
I've never published anything that wasn't replete
with typos.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Oh man, I'm telling you, my wife will get a hold of
me when I'm done and says youmight want to jump on the laptop
and edit that because that wasa mess.
Yeah, but that's how that allhappens.
It's all just spur of themoment, what happens right there
, kind of like a dailymeditation.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, so pretty much the things you're writing about
are things going on in your life.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
A lot of it and your Masonic life.
Well and personal a lot of it.
There are some topics that Imight need to back up on a
little bit.
I went back and read some ofthem and over the last week or
so religion has kind of been aforefront.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So, like that's a touchy topic, you feel like
people don't want to really godown that rabbit hole.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
You know, and I was thinking about that earlier, and
you post something aboutreligion, and I come from a very
eclectic background and I tendto make a lot of jokes about it
and that sort of thing.
I was born in the 70s andreally grew up in the 80s, when
(07:40):
and I mean no offense to anybodyif this is whatever but in a
time when Jesus wasn't the sonof God, it was Jimmy Swagger-
yeah, and the mega churches youknow, in the mega church thing
and I grew up in a veryevangelical background and I
tease that you know thedifference between the church
(08:01):
that I was raised in andAppalachian snake handlers was
we didn't handle snakes.
And you know, brothers look atme and they go.
You're not laughing and I'mlike because I'm not kidding.
But I came from that and Istudied in some conservative
(08:23):
churches and some liberal ideasand was initiated into a
neo-pagan group involved withWicca and that's a very eclectic
thing and I understand thatwithin Lodge we say that we
don't discuss religion andpolitics as a gentlemanly thing.
(08:46):
But there are times and reallycalling out the craft and again,
I was talking with you earlierabout listening to some of the
past episodes that folks getupset.
I have to ask are we reallymature enough to have those
conversations without someonegetting upset?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I think that in a format like we're having right
now one man to one man it's alot easier to have those
conversations.
When you're on the internet,like Facebook, for example, it
gets really difficult to havethose conversations for a
variety of reasons I think.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
So I could see that you have a.
I could see you having a toughtime with like a Facebook page
and the comments and and theconversation.
Oh, we have a.
We have a mystery guest whojust joined.
This is the man that introducedme to you.
His name is brother Sean Cooney, who's the current junior
(09:54):
warden of the mighty SarasotaLodge 147.
Welcome to the level podcast,sean my brother.
Look at that man's gettingcheered welcome, welcome.
Thank you for coming, yeah ofcourse.
(10:15):
I told Sean we were recording infive and he thought I said at
five, so that's my fault.
That's my fault.
I got fat fingers when I text.
I can't do it properly.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
How we doing right where's your book?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Not bad how you doing , sean.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Not so bad.
Good to hear you again.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Good to hear and see you.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
We were like we covered his masonic History and
we were just talking about kindof what he does on Facebook and
kind of got into itsconversation about One of the
only things he has to checkhimself with his conversations
about religion, and so we weretalking about how, like this,
(10:56):
this format now we have threeguys even this kind of a
situation is a hell, a loteasier than going on Facebook
and try to talk online Aboutreligion.
That's a whole another world ofYou're opening up because you
know people act different whenthey're not in front of your
face oh, most of all and Secondof all, you get a lot of people
(11:16):
that you didn't even want in theconversation, that chime it and
People are easily offendedabout their beliefs too.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
You know, and I think that's one of the most
important things about Freemason, and one of the things that I
value so much about Freemasonry,is it where it doesn't matter
what religion you choose.
You know what I mean.
We're still brothers, you knowI mean, and we all believe in
the thing that's right and webelieve in.
You know, the all of these goodbooks.
(11:43):
They all have such great,beautiful things in them, you
know, and if you live your lifeby those books, I mean most
likely you're doing all right,you know.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, I mean it's something that we have.
If you've ever listened to thepodcast of the last several
years, it's an issue that comesup all the time and you know our
my personal belief is a Masonwho's been active in Masonry and
had a lot of experience in itis the intention is to keep the
(12:13):
lodge, business and state ofcommunications Clean and pure.
We act very different in astated or call communication
than we do in the dining halland we act different there than
we do at the fire pit around myhouse drinking bourbon and
having cigars.
Right, there's like levels tothis stuff and what we do in a
business meeting or callcommunication is absolutely off
(12:35):
limits, in my mind, andrightfully so to discussions
about religion and politics forthe purposes of debate, I think
in education that involves areligion.
No one's complaining about thatand Lodge, I've seen it many
times.
However, the conversations thatwe're gonna we might be having
like right now Are gonna be awhole nother thing and I don't
(12:56):
think that there's ever been anintention to prohibit Mason's
from talking about religion orpolitics as people Right.
This is really just limited tothe stated and call
communications in the Lodgeagreed so.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I would, I would.
I would agree with that.
To a to To a point.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
No, you have to wholeheartedly agree to it.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Oh well, no, I've walked into.
I've walked into a, into ameeting, and and a brother made
the comment that if you're notof this faith or this flavor of
faith, and you can't be a Mason,and I'm like, then it's time
for me to to walk down thestreet because I don't meet that
(13:43):
I One of the most beautifulthings and it's actually part of
what drew me to masonry in thefirst place, because I was
seeing a lot of, a lot ofdifferent Organizations and a
lot of different groups thatthat claimed the very thing that
that masonry professes Right,we love everybody, we're on the
(14:05):
level, we're this, we're that.
And In the 11, 12 years thatI've been a Mason, this is an,
all honesty, one of the onlyplaces that I've ever really
found it, yeah, andwholeheartedly Believe in it.
(14:26):
I'm very passionate about it.
That's why I write about it alot, and you have a perspective
that is, in the minority in thefraternity.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Okay, and being in the minority.
I was talking to somebody aboutthis a friend of mine, a
business associate and he wastalking about protesters and how
horrible protesting was, and Iwas trying to explain to him
that when you're in the minority, you have to try to make
yourself heard a lot harder, andso that's why you're seeing
protests from any minority groupor that's why they're talking
(15:02):
about something that involvesthem Specifically, because they
have to raise awareness to theissues they're dealing with so
the majority can have an earTowards their issue and maybe
start to change their thinkingabout that issue.
If they don't talk about it,it's never gonna change.
So conversation has to happen.
Clearly, the brother you'retalking about Doesn't okay for
(15:25):
those that aren't masons and forthose that are longtime masons.
The guy you just described it'snot knowledgeable about masonry
.
We can all agree on that right.
He had no business Saying thatif you're not a specific
religion, you shouldn't join,because that is not part of the
tenants of our fraternity.
It's quite the opposite of thetenants of our fraternity, yeah
(15:48):
it's freedom of religion.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
That's why why we have that as a right in our
Constitution, you know, and it'svery prevalent in Freemasonry
and it should be.
That's why we can put differentbooks on our authors.
You know, whenever you want totake your obligation, you just
have to believe in that higherpower and you have to have some
kind of Faith so we can tie up.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Oh, yeah, most certainly.
And and one of the things thatI really enjoy and I've set in
lodge With Muslim brothers oneof one of my really good friends
as a Jewish brother.
They have so much to teach meto step outside of my comfort
zone and and what really makesthat individual tick and I
(16:39):
talked pretty regular about, andI was chaplain of my lodge at
one point, and I would alwaysend my closing prayer with
please allow us to take thelight of masonry into a darkened
world.
I truly believe and absolutelybelieve that it's the one thing
(17:00):
that will save it.
Yeah, and if you don't takemasonry out of the lodge room,
masonry will die and that's justit.
So here's I've said I want to goand and and visit different and
, while we're still on the onthe on the spirituality side of
(17:21):
things, but visit a muslimmosque, a Sikh temple, a hindu.
What makes the people in mycommunity tick?
And it's really your heart andyour faith.
And so how can I better takemasonry into the outside world
(17:42):
in a way that you'll understandand you'll relate and be on the
level, not just with my brothersin the lodge, but with everyone
I come in contact?
Speaker 1 (17:52):
with.
I've said this many times onthe podcast, that and that I
think about things weirdly, Iknow, but I really see the lodge
and the way that they'retelling us to behave as training
wheels for the real world.
It's like training wheels.
It's like gives you supportstructure.
This is look, you're doing it,you're walking the straight line
(18:13):
now you're riding that bike andthen when you go out in the
world, you got to take thetraining wheels off.
Man, you got to be that way.
Now, in the street, the sameway you are in the lodge.
I've met men that have beenelevated to positions of great
power, that act one way in thelodge and are completely
different outside the lodge.
You would think they're twodifferent people and they are
(18:35):
two different people.
You're getting two differentversions of that person.
That isn't masonry.
Masonry is to be that way allthe time.
So you'd hope that thatbrother's working on that and
trying to do that.
But that's the goal for all ofus as masons is to try to bring
the light of frame masonry intothe world and it has to be part
of who you are.
If you're going to do that, itcan't be something you play at
(18:57):
twice a month.
Absolutely.
The tolerance for religion isdefinitely part of that.
I say tolerance, because youcan't expect you know.
It's like my wife's father'sfrom another country.
He's from a different era andtrying to get him to understand
what non-binary, trans,cisgender is is never going to
(19:22):
happen.
I got to get him to understandthat there are gay people in the
world.
You have to take steps.
You can't go from A to Z.
You've got to go through theprocess of learning and
educating yourself.
Masonry really helps you takethose steps of learning about
yourself, your biases, thethings that you do that hurt
(19:43):
people, and looking,internalizing it and learning
how to change those behaviors tobe the most positive,
contributing member of anyrelationship you're in, whether
it's your work, family, right,your church, whatever the
situation is to be a positive,contributing factor to that
community.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
That's absolutely true and because Masonry, you
know, we say it's a fraternity,it's a philosophy, it's and it's
all these things.
But you're absolutely right, itis a relationship not just with
your brothers-in-law, with thepeople in your community, but
it's a relationship withyourself and you're really
(20:28):
learning who you are man.
It was a lodge, massachusetts,I believe.
That did the Ben Franklinvideos, yeah, and they were
talking about the measure of aman and Masonry, measuring who
you are.
It's discovering yourself anddiscovering you.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, and you know the thing about the.
It's like if you are only, ifyou're only subjected to the
same thing over and over again,you never grow.
There's no opportunity forgrowth there.
Like you said, you want tovisit a Muslim mosque, you want
to visit a Sikh temple, becausenot because you want to convert
(21:15):
your faith, right, it's becauseyou want to understand people
better.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Where are they thinking the way they think?
Where are they coming from?
What are their hopes and dreamsand fears?
And you get that from lookingat their faith.
You can understand a personbetter.
It doesn't mean that you'regoing to try to convert yourself
just to look at a thing.
It's like sports.
If you're on a sports team andyou only practice with your
teammates and never play anotherteam, how good is that team
(21:44):
going to be in a playoff wherethey finally play another team
that's been playing other teamsall season?
That's not going to go so wellfor that team.
Like you have to test yourself,you have to test your beliefs
and be open to havingconversations with people about
things that you don't understand.
And you find that most of them.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
there's so many similar points of view, just
told in a different story, butthey are saying the same, based
on the same basic principles.
There's so much beautifulsymbolism and, just like in
Freemasonry, we have all ofthese symbols and illustrations.
They're just all of thesebeautiful lessons that are just
(22:25):
taught in a different way.
People want to argue about itand then kill each other over it
.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
For us.
Like Jackie, I think, wrote it.
He said Mason, we understandalliteration and we understand
allegory and taking morallessons from things and into a
Mason.
You don't care if that'sChristianity or Egyptian
mythology or Shilveric storiesfrom Middle Ages.
The point is you're looking forthe moral lesson to take from
(22:57):
it and try to learn from it.
And the second view, as a Mason, start trying to prove that
Hiram Abif was a real man andwhen he lived and what he ate
for lunch.
You're losing the point of itall.
You look crazy, right.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
And, like you said, you don't have to shift your
beliefs and like no one's askinganyone to change their beliefs
at all, like I want everybody tobelieve hard in what they
believe and I think that's good,I really do.
And if you are a superreligious person and whatever
that may be, I think that couldbe really good for you.
It's just to be open and to beable to pick apart those things
(23:30):
and find those beautiful aspectsand lessons, and whether it's
Egyptian or what, to be able tofind those pretty lessons and
apply them to your life, I thinkis really valuable, and that's
what we do in Masonry all thetime.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Pretty much, yeah.
And so what, if you don't mindme asking, Dwayne, it sounds
like you're in a minorityreligion.
What religion would youprescribe to these days If?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
you're willing to share.
No, no, no, no, absolutely.
And, like I said, I've lookedat another or at a number of
different faiths.
I found that I'm not and, muchlike Sean was saying, I'm not
really a fan or subscribednecessarily to an organized
(24:21):
religion, but try and see thespirituality in all of them.
I think that there's.
If I was to practice dailyspiritual ritual, it's probably
more wicked and an earth basedflavor than anything else.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
That's a really hard one to knock.
When you have a religion thatworships like the sun, it's hard
to discount that the sun's realand exists and is worthy of
worship.
That's a tough one to reallykind of knock, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Most certainly it is, and it's really interesting
with the seven liberal arts andsciences and how that tends to
tie in a bit.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, you know, I had a candidate that I brought into
the fraternity and he wentthrough his first degree.
He's a pagan and so I wasexcited because they do a lot of
ritual and stuff and he isspiritual.
So he met all the requirementsto be a Mason and he got his
inner apprentice degree and hecalled me that night and he said
(25:31):
what the hell was that?
All I saw was Christian, thisChristian, that Christian,
everything Like.
Listen, man, open your eyes,think deeper.
Okay, Look at the look at thesymbol that they explained to
you in the inner apprenticedegree the circle with the lines
.
Okay, Take away.
Take away the images on thesurface and what you're seeing
(25:53):
are ancient hermetic principles.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Right, this is your belief system and it is their
belief system.
It's all in there.
It's not like one thing iswrong and the other one's right.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
It's just flavors like you said labels, and I
imagine it'd be kind of kind ofhard to be open and it shouldn't
be, you know and Masonry, weshould just be open.
But I imagine there's a lot ofpushback from people that don't
necessarily understand what thatis.
You know what I mean To be apagan, or to a wick or anything
(26:31):
like that, because what theybelieve is against that.
You know what I mean.
But it also says in the samebooks that you shouldn't judge
that other person and you shoulddo nothing but love that other
person.
So you know, I think that wethat's what our duty should be,
you know is to love yourneighbor as yourself.
(26:51):
That's a Christian one, right,you know what I'm saying.
But it's a good one.
It's a good one, you know.
Don't kill.
That's another Christian one.
I think we can all agree.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
It's probably a good one.
You needed.
That one is amazing to me.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Well, you know what I'm saying.
We just got to be careful notto judge each other.
You know for what we believe inand judge the man by his
character.
You know what I mean, not hisbeliefs, right?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
That's worthy of judgment, the way, a person acts
is worthy of judgment.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
It was really funny when I did my first degree a
number of years ago.
I went through and did thefirst section and I'm going back
out of the, out of the lodgeroom and and I'm chuckling and
laughing a little bit and one ofthe guys looks at me and he
goes I don't understand what's.
What's funny?
I don't understand.
(27:47):
I just looked at him and hegoes wait a minute, all right.
And I tell him I'm going thatisn't new, I've done that.
And he looked at me and he goeswait a minute, you're wicking,
aren't you?
And I go uh-huh, yeah, I am,that's not new.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Actually I have a couple Wiccan friends in the
fraternity.
Like between two lodges I havethree friends that are Wiccans.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
I don't want you Buddhist friends and Hindu
friends.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yes, yeah, but then there's a lot of.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Majority is mostly Christian, but then you have,
you know, you have plenty of theJewish faith as well, like we
had one of the members of ourlodge straight up convert to
Judaism, which was pretty cooland interesting.
You know, mm-hmm, I say liveand let live.
You know, irritates me, I'm notgonna lie.
It irritates me a little bitwhen people are, you know,
(28:39):
pushing on each other to believesomething that you know,
because it in all reality, we'rejust on this planet traveling
to our deaths and nobody forcertain Knows anything.
And I know a lot of peoplethat'll rub people the wrong way
too, because you know, if youbelieve hard enough, you can sit
there to be a fan.
But there's nothing that is, butthere's no certainty in life.
(29:01):
Certainty is madness.
If you are so certain aboutanything at all, you're a madman
.
You have to be because nobodyreally knows these things.
Until you're there, you canbelieve, but nobody really knows
.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
So yeah, just, we're not to suck live life and try
not to try not to suck, but andand you're right, and if you're
so certain, you're so closed inthat you don't open to new
thoughts and new ideas, andwe're supposed to be free
thinkers and Open to that.
(29:35):
I mean, yeah, you know,everyone has something to teach
through life experiences.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
So what closes you off to love really?
You know, I'm saying I thinkthat's like the biggest Aspect
in all religion it's such a hugepart about being alive is love,
and when you close yourself offto it it's I don't know, it
makes me sad a little, you know,because that's really what it
is.
It's like, no, I can't befriends with that guy because
you know what I mean or you knowYou're casting judgment where's
(30:03):
a different hat than I like towear to church, so I can't be
with that guy you know You'rejust closing yourself off to
love and I think it's soimportant we lose sight of that
and in the world today Is justloving each other.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah, I think that is definitely 100% the Masonic.
The essence of masonry islearning how to love your fellow
man, even if you don'tunderstand them or agree with
them.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Mm-hmm, for sure, absolutely very, very true.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Those are the training wheels that we get in
the Lodge room that we'resupposed to carry out into the
rest of the world.
And Not everybody makes it.
Yeah, and not everybody caresto try, and that's okay.
You know, people come tomasonry for different things and
they get different things outof it.
I understand that.
But for me personally, I likehim all about masonry and I like
to surround myself with thereal deal, talking about guys
(30:53):
that are looking to take ajourney in life Of
self-improvement andself-discovery.
Those are the people I like tosurround myself with as a Mason.
And you know, I think that'swhat I tell people.
I get a lot of calls fromthrough the podcast of people
complaining about theirsituation in In their lodge
there, that it's not right andthe things that aren't good
(31:16):
about the people that are intheir lodges, and what I, the
the council I give them is go toanother lodge and Start seeking
people that are good mason'sand only associate with them,
and you're about to have acompletely different masonic
experience than what you justhave been going through for the
last year, two years or half along it's been.
Don't try to change thosepeople.
(31:37):
Just go.
Just go find another placewhere you can find people that
are more like when you're at inyour masonic journey.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
And I and I I agree with you as well, as I was
listening to some of the backepisodes.
Today there was some discussionabout taking a new brother and
going and visiting a lodge andand Working with with Grand
Lodge.
I get emails every once in awhile of people interested in
(32:07):
wanting to join the fraternityand I'll send those emails.
We have nine lodges within myarea that's not too terribly far
here in here in the Kansas Cityarea and I will send that email
to each one of those lodges andthen get a hold of that brother
and say let me take you andlet's go visit some of these.
(32:28):
Well, yeah, but lodge ABC isthree blocks from my house.
Well, okay, that's great, buttheir focus may not be right
what best suits you?
Or, you know, you may feel morecomfortable at a lodge, maybe
(32:50):
Ten blocks down the road, youknow whatever.
But but let's go visit thoselodges and find the one that
really works for you, not just,hey, there's a lodge next door.
I.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Think that that's wise and more people need to do
that and, you know, I Think thefraternity in general has gotten
itself into.
Many of the lodges have gottenthemselves to places where
they're desperate for membershipand they just want to get some
people in the door.
And the conversation about isthis the best lodge for you
(33:27):
isn't happening all the time, asas often as it should, and
sometimes there are lodges thatare a better fit for certain
people.
I mean I I talk about that allthe time.
I Am not a member of the lodge.
I started and I found a lodgethat was a better fit for me and
the lodge that I'm in now.
I often refer people to thelodge I came from because I
think that lodge might beactually a better fit for them
(33:49):
based on their situation.
You gotta you know you got tomatch up the person with the
lodge, because, oh, it's amazinghow different the cultures are,
different lodges.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Yeah, yeah, dynamics.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Did I lose you, cooney?
Are you still here?
Oh, I'm here.
Okay, cool yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
I'm here.
It's definitely differentdynamics and I didn't see you,
no matter where you go.
I think you know what I mean inand out, and I just know it
yeah, Ah your video is going inand out.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
I just noticed it.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
It happens sometimes when you press the button like
this.
So where you go, I mean itreally it does change from lodge
to lodge, even though I'm notthere.
There's different leadershipand control, there's different,
you know, levels of motivation,but one thing that should all be
universal is our tenants andour beliefs.
(34:47):
We and we should really, youknow, be I Don't know I want to
use the word aggressive you knowI mean to uphold to that.
You know we should all,regardless of who's there in the
dynamic, that one thingshouldn't change from lodge to
lodge to lodge, and that's freemasonry in its own.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, we all share the same tenants and beliefs and
the digest of Masonic law, atleast within our jurisdictions,
and and all of them should beliving that at least, and that's
one thing like when I was themaster of a lodge.
If you went to my installationon day one, that was my speech.
We're gonna try to be goodmasons.
All year I tried to be anexample of a good Mason.
(35:26):
At the end the last thing Isaid was I hope this was good
for the Lodge and I hope that wewere.
I hope that at the end the bestcompliment you can, you can
give me or any of my officers isyou you are a good Mason.
Like that should be the highesthonor for us.
To get that.
Praise like that means that youlearned and you're trying to do
better and that that that shitis hard.
(35:49):
Women is hard to do.
You're talking about.
The reason that people cling tothings and that they're so sure
is because it's easy to do that.
You don't have to considerother people's opinions, ideas,
you don't have to question yourown Ideas or are accepted truths
(36:10):
.
It's easy to live that way.
It's much harder to openyourself to the fact that you
don't know everything and You'remost likely never gonna know
everything.
That's not an easy way to livethis life well, I oh go ahead
Sean.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
No, absolutely Go ahead, brother, I.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah, brother, brother's great, brother's great
, I it was.
It was interesting because atmy installation I, when I talked
to the lodge, I Told him thatthey're that I'd only found one
perfect Mason.
And and my entire life and andall the time that I was involved
(36:52):
in before and all that, I'veonly found a single perfect
Mason.
And I reached behind the podiumand pulled up a jar and and set
it on the podium and it saidyou know Perfect Mason?
And it was this Mason jar and Igo, that's it.
You're, you are going to fillthat with your experiences and
(37:13):
we end up we, we took donationsout of the year and whatever and
filled the jar and adopted afamily for Christmas that year.
Now, out of what we raised outof that jar, I've asked people
from time to time who the mostimportant person was in the
lodge and it's the, the friendthat you just placed in the
(37:38):
northeast corner, that he, he'syour foundation and I.
I would really throw it outthat we never, really ever,
leave that chair.
We're always in a state oflearning, in a state of
discovery, and Masonry is alifelong journey and it takes
(38:00):
your whole life to figure it out, really, and Absolutely you
know we're, we're learning aboutourselves in the fraternity and
we never really leave that spot.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
I Always say, like I don't know why they gave me so
many working tools.
I'm still just working on myfirst one.
They gave me you know what Imean, like Constantly working
that that common gavel out.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
You know I never be for sure, a lifelong.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Have you ever talked about the thing?
I brother, cliff Bernetti,brought this up when he was
doing an education, I believe.
But um, the perfect stone isnot Smooth and and shiny.
If it was completely smooth andcompletely perfect, it wouldn't
hold mortar, you know.
(38:48):
It would just slide off, itwould be no adherence.
So it takes those extra pits inthere and a little bit of
imperfection in order for it tobe Fit for a builder to use it.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
You know, I mean, I thought that was a cool thing, I
said that is I like that andit's like it's true and I there
we did an episode about this Ilike to surround myself, I said,
with good masons, but alsobroken people, because they
understand the value ofeverything in life, they
understand the value of love,they understand the value of
(39:21):
like being respected, and theyaren't going to take those
things for granted.
And so you know, someone that'scome out of some crap in their
background and dealt with someReally bad shit in their life is
somebody that's usually reallyinteresting first of all, but
not boring people, and and theydon't take anything, especially
your relationship, for granted.
So I love being around peoplelike that, because I'm a person
(39:44):
like that, I guess.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Well, I am like when I first John, I was like y'all
really know, I mean be like youknow.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Well, and and it says it's those imperfections that,
like you were saying, that makeus unique, yeah, and and give us
the opportunity to Showourselves to other people,
because and we're kind ofdancing around around the word a
little bit, but it makes usvulnerable and we have to be
(40:18):
vulnerable to our brothersbecause that makes us open and
raw and honest, which you know.
Some of the stuff that that Iwrite and I post it's that's,
that's very raw, that is that ishow I am, and being open and
being honest to everybody andand those those articles have
(40:44):
gone around the world.
I've had guys from from Englandand wherever go hey man, can I
use this?
A masonic education, and it'swow, you guys are really hurting
for a masonic head.
Okay yeah, sure you know, feelfree.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
No, man, you never know what other people are going
through and how much help it isfor you just to say things out
loud that other people arethinking and aren't saying.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Well.
I'm a fan boy?
I'm definitely a fan boy.
I always love your, your posts.
They always give me somethingto chew on, you know.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
I mean, there's always something there, you know
, something to think about, ifnothing else, just you know, I
mean he's at it again, you knowwell, and and I appreciate that
and that was part of of why Istarted writing those, because
if I thought it, somebody elseis thinking about it, let's
discuss it.
(41:30):
And if you disagree with me,great, I love it when people you
know I go up and I get the padon the back going Good Lord,
right, where's being great?
That man?
That's awesome, that'swonderful.
Okay, thank you.
But I also love it more whenyou know I didn't completely
agree with you, and here's why.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, now you're having a conversation which is
what you're gonna do.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Let's be open about it.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Okay, now we talked about religion.
You said, I could ask youanything.
I can ask you anything.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Feel okay, roll the dice.
Let's see what you got.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Okay, three two, one fight.
Okay, here's the deal.
You are not in a traditionalrelationship, are you sir?
Speaker 2 (42:28):
I love you, chris.
Thank you, brother, uh-huh no.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
I am not.
Is this something you'recomfortable talking about?
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Uh, sure, we can, we can talk about it.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Okay, so we in my lodge in Sarasota, we have
pretty much Everything under thesun, I think, represented in
our brothers.
Yes, now, the one thing wedon't have, uh, but we do
actually have an.
Uh, I know and I'm not gonnacall out the lodge of the
(43:01):
brother but there is somebody inour district that is in a
polyamorous, amorousrelationship.
You don't have it in my lodge.
That's probably the one thingwe don't have as far as I know.
But, uh, I do believe that youmay be in that situation.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Yeah, I've heard rumors.
Yeah, yeah.
You got you got two ladies.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
I, yes, yes, I do.
I need to know how that happens, please, and I would like a
playbook that we can uh go byourselves To make that happen in
our life, um.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
I had my hands full of warm.
Yeah, I got my actually it wasreally kind of funny.
I had a past grandmaster askedme the same question and every
time we talk in private he'slike hey man, how does that work
?
And I'm going.
Well, you know it's not foreverybody.
Yeah um, I Met uh Jennifer atfirst off me and my wife, my
(43:55):
legal wife.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
We have been married.
Married now what?
Speaker 2 (43:59):
13 years wonderful rock solid.
I met Jennifer actually uh,doing some work between my
motorcycle group and, uh, dimalay.
Uh, there was a radio stationhere in Kansas City that was
(44:19):
doing a uh A thing for veteransand we went and collected uh,
hygiene products, socks, thatkind of stuff to take to the
local va and I picked them upand, uh, matter where she were
Excuse me, matter where sheworked and you know you're,
(44:39):
you're kind of cute, that's youknow and went on and kind of
left it and A few years laterI'd had bariatric surgery and
and all that.
And uh, we showed up at a dimalay event.
Me and Jennifer liked to teasethat we started dating over a
dead brother and it was a day ofremembrance and honor of frank
(45:02):
land Found her, a dima lay,who's buried here in Kansas City
.
So we went to the memorialservice and she was there and we
started Dating after that andthings just took off.
Now where we've been togetherabout three years, everybody,
everybody's happy, everybody'scool, the the thing that really
(45:25):
revolves around this and, by theway, I am not a preacher for
polyamory it works for some andit doesn't for others and uh, it
takes a lot of effort, a lot ofwork and a lot of open
communication and a lot of beinghonest with yourself.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, I will imagine, because Even with two people,
communication is difficult.
I can imagine with three howmuch more difficult it would be
if you're not being open andcommunicating.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Oh yeah, we is.
We as a, a family unit, havehad to sit down and we've had
some very, very roughconversations, um, but we've
grown from them, uh, because,much like in life and and
masonry and for the love of god,I'm not really trying to tie
polyamory and masonry togetherbecause there's some brothers
(46:19):
now pulling their hair out andchris, you're gonna get phone
calls and all of this Um, but itdoes.
It requires being open andhonest, being on the level,
being upright, being square it,speaking your truth of who you
are and trying to understandwhere that other person's coming
(46:39):
from.
So, Um, yeah it.
It can be incrediblyinteresting.
Um, I caught a lot of flak forit from, uh, some brothers in
the fraternity, basicallybecause jennifer is a brother's
daughter.
There there are some folks thatquestion Obligations in kansas
(47:05):
and and whatnot over that.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
But did you have a conversation with the brother.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yes, I most certainly did, and that brother is.
I go to his birthday and go tohis house regularly.
So but, and, and, and, and.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
There's nothing wrong with that, because it's as long
as you've spoken to the masonand he's agreed with you that
this is uh okay.
What's the problem?
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Well, and, and, and it comes down to again
communication and respect.
And if that brother, eventhough we're all legal adults I
mean I'm 53 and everybody's intheir 30s, and all that if he
would have said you know, I'mreally not comfortable with that
.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Just skipped over something.
You got two ladies in their 30sand you're in your 50s.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Oh, did I say that?
Speaker 1 (48:01):
What?
Let's say yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Oh well, yeah, thank you, but no, if that brother
would have said, hey, I'm, I'mnot Super comfortable with that,
then that would have been intostory.
Okay, we're, we're done, we'llgo grab a beer and some pizza,
and and at the end of the dayI'm going home, so it.
But yes, you, you are, you areaccurate in that and that's.
(48:29):
You know, that's not anythingI've ever really been shy about,
but yeah, there there are somebrothers that are comfortable
with that and some that aren'tyeah, well, you know You're not
asking them to join yourrelationship, you're just asking
them to accept you as a brother.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
That shouldn't be right now.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
That would be a little, that would be a little
weird.
I think our, my Nikki, my wife,uses the term Polly saturated.
She goes we're Polly saturated.
No more, we can't do no more.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
Polly saturated sounds gross, polyamorous sounds
romantic.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (49:16):
No, I'm living that live.
I can tell you what I'm notgonna do, though I'm not gonna.
I'm not gonna go after that.
Whoo, I said my hands full withone lady.
You are a monster to be able todo that.
Just a beastly back and takeall of the burden on in the
world.
So God bless you oh.
I think, women are burdens, butoh, Lord.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Oh, I think I think they take care of me more often
than not, and that's that's awonderful thing.
I'm very blessed.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
That's awesome, that really is cool.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Yeah, I.
I mean I Never been in thepolyamorous.
I only learned that this was athing Couple years ago, when
when I met somebody that was inone and I had to Google it
because I really didn'tunderstand what was going on.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
Yeah, I feel like Mormons or something.
You know what I mean.
Do that right Like morningsMormons.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
Oh, mormons, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
I thought that's what that was they used to, for sure
.
If you look in history, youknow what I'm saying.
It was common forever.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
I think Solomon had like three or six hundred wives,
something like that.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
Yeah, something like that I mean.
So it's not, it's not crazy atall.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
And lookie there.
And Solomon was credited asbeing the wisest man in the
world.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
So maybe, maybe he has more to teach us.
Uh, I don't know.
You have two.
Do you think you can handleanother 498?
Speaker 2 (50:43):
No, I have a hard time with two.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
I got a hard time with one.
No, she's great, she's great.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Well, I believe he was also one of the richest men
men to ever live, so maybe that,maybe you got to have a lot of
money to handle that many womenyou know.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
I yes.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
So you, when you post your past master's thoughts, as
you you alluded to earlier,you're usually sitting on your
porch Having a libation andsmoking a cigar.
Now, what is your favoritelibation in these pictures that
I see?
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Um, I Am a fan of.
Now, if I, if I have been areally, really good mason, I
will grab me a bottle ofbellveni.
I love my bellveni scotch.
However, I have found that, um,like, uh, jack Daniels or Jim
(51:48):
beam honey Is really good.
Sprinkle a little bit of seasalt in it and that's good stuff
.
No, that's, that's very goodstuff.
Um, I'll also get one and, uh,I have a cocktail smoker, I'll
put in on top and I'll smoke one.
That's, that's really prettydecent.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
No, I would do.
I would do the smoke on me.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
But yeah, oh, now I will say, I will say that, uh,
my cigars, because I am abrother that supports brothers,
so I smoke masonic cigars and Iam there's.
There's a specific band.
I'm really, really, reallytrying to get in the Kansas City
area and have uh passed a fewaround.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
What would?
Speaker 2 (52:36):
that be, if, if, if we might maybe be able to, uh,
if we might be able to Get threeruffian cigars.
I'm going to matter of fact,I'm sitting at, uh, my cigar
lounge right now and I'm gonnatalk with them and, uh, I gave
them some and I'm gonna see whatthey thought and have them
(53:00):
reach out to y'all.
I've been trying to.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
I certainly appreciate it, brother.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
I certainly appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (53:04):
I'll make sure we uh Send another little care package
out to you.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
That would be tragic.
Those might end up in a inanother article or few, oh well.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
I mean, but uh.
I know Right on, but no but I'mthe, the, the sales rep for
three ruffians.
So now you guys know.
And, and they are a few cigarscome to this guy.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
They're a very good stick.
Uh, they're a very good stickand I've done my best to send
some brothers your way when theyask.
Speaker 3 (53:40):
Well, we certainly do appreciate it.
We definitely do, and it's it'sreal cool to see that, you know
, I mean like I said, I'malready.
I'm a fan boy.
I love the, the pass, masterslots Anyway.
But every once in a while I'llscroll and I'll see one of ours
on there.
I'm like that's a three ruffian.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
It's fun when you see it in the wild like that.
It's like what?
Oh my goodness, it is reallycool.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
It's been a fun experience and I'm really
looking forward to the futuremoving forward.
I think it's we got nothing butgood things coming.
So Three ruffians cigars with.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
All in all fairness is a sponsor of the podcast, so
thank you for being on and thankyou for your contributions to
keep us going.
Of course, it does cost moneyto do this and we don't make
money, so sponsorship is greatlyappreciated.
Speaker 3 (54:25):
It is a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
But you know that that that's a.
You know people don't like tomix business and free masonry.
I've heard it.
I've gotten ridiculed for beingassociated with it.
But here's the thing If youenjoy a thing, you kind of want
to play with that thing, andthis is uh, this isn't a.
I don't think this is anendeavor to become
multi-millionaires Because offree masonry.
(54:49):
I think this is a group ofpeople that really enjoy Quality
stuff and want to raise money,for I think you give a
percentage all the proceeds to,uh, masonic body right.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
Yeah, to the shrine, absolutely yeah, we definitely.
Uh, we, we donate a percentageI believe it's like 10 of
everything we sell goes to theshrines international.
And then also we just did araffle for our brothers over at
liberty lodge and they ended upmaking I believe it was eight
hundred and sixty dollars profitfor their lodge and their
benefit, which is awesomebecause we love liberty.
(55:21):
Liberty has sera soda 147s backAll the time.
Every single thing that we do,they're they're showing out for
and we try and give them as muchlove in return.
I mean, it's our district ingeneral is really really tight
and we're really really lucky.
I don't think a lot of peoplerealize how lucky we are in our
district, but so we're alwaystrying to, we're always trying
to help out and we're definitelynot trying to make a million
(55:43):
bucks.
This is just something.
That is Hours, and it's masonicand the idea behind it too.
You know, some of us are alittle bit more rough around the
edges Me in particular, youknow and we relate to the guys
that do have a bourbon and a ora scotch and a cigar, and we can
talk about things and it's alittle bit more comfortable for
(56:03):
some than others and that's justwhat we promote, I think you
know, definitely not trying toget rich.
We're I mean, we show you thefinancial statements we're
definitely not getting rich.
There's money, yeah, it's.
It's just a fun journey and welike the camaraderie of the
craft and it's just, it's just afun thing to do.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Speaking you know, sean, and it's and it's fun that
you bring that up um, some ofthe best masonic education that
I've ever received has neverbeen in a large room, absolutely
.
I mean, you know you, you haveyour meeting and you have your
your time set aside for masoniceducation and and, and it's
(56:45):
great, and there's brothersthere and it's this way with
other organizations that thatI've been a part of.
The masonic education reallystarts when folks go home.
You, you close the lodge andfolks are, hey, I'm not going to
make it, I'm not going towhatever.
And A lot of times there's beena couple lodges that I've been
(57:07):
at During ddgm visits or justvisiting in general, whatever.
Uh, they'll have what they callthe junior deacon hour.
Well, they'll go down andthey'll pour three fingers and
have a cigar and sit down andhave discussions, like we're
having now, where I don't wantto say the gloves come off.
(57:27):
But it's a little bit more open, it's okay.
What do you want to know?
Let's, let's talk, and that'sreally some of the best masonic
education I've had has alwaysbeen after a lodge meeting.
Speaker 3 (57:41):
I agree wholeheartedly.
I think that's where trueFreemasonry happens.
I mean it's what we learn inthe lodge and we experience in
the lodge.
But where true Freemasonryhappens, I believe, is outside
of the lodge.
And our brother, um JohnSchaefer, who's also a partner
of mine for three roughians.
He has a, you know, a monthlylittle game that we play and
(58:05):
during that time we have moredeep conversations about real
things and we get into esotericsand talking about, like the
true thing that we're trying todo.
More often than not and you knowI probably Rub some people the
wrong way, but I tell a lot ofthe EA when they show up.
You know I'm saying like thisis where it happens.
You know what I mean.
(58:26):
Like this is where the realmasonry happens.
I mean it definitely.
Everything that we do for astated meeting is necessity and
it's important and it's it's,it's what makes us us.
But the the real work happenswhen you leave that lodger room.
You know, yeah, you get to hangout with your buddies and and
(58:48):
really get into stuff, and youknow it's not for everybody.
I'm not promoting drinking andsmoking either, you know.
I mean that's not for everybody.
I mean everybody Gets what theyneed from different places.
But for me personally, moreoften than not, over A good, a
good bourbon and a good cigar,I've really found some
insensitive things to work on,you know.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
What I love about the , the fun part of that, is you,
you, uh, you duane, you smoke,so hireman Solomon, cigars also,
yes, and hireman Solomon arethe two kings that are the
heroes of our stories.
And you, you juxtapose thatwith the three ruffians now who
are the three bad guys in ourstories, to kind of embrace
(59:34):
those uh Superfluities and vices.
So you've got this cooljuxtaposition of the heroes and
the uh, the bad guys, who areboth masonic cigar brands.
I think that's fun.
Speaker 3 (59:46):
I think it is too.
It's cool.
Speaker 1 (59:50):
That was clever.
Whoever came up with that idea,cleaver?
So, um, you know we're comingup on about an hour, which is
what I asked you for, and I doappreciate you giving us that
much time.
You know this isn't the format.
I think, duane, you said thiswas the first time you've ever
(01:00:11):
been on a podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
It is this.
This is a format that uh, uh,I'm getting comfortable with.
Uh, I'm not a huge publicspeaker, although, um, there,
there's an event coming up injuly that, uh, it, the the
speakers haven't been announced,but I have a feeling my name is
(01:00:34):
uh is going to show up formasonic on kansas.
Um, we'll, we'll see what, uh,what mason, what the masonic con
team wants to do with that, but, uh, yeah, this is.
This has been a fun experience.
How about you shaw?
Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
I hope to be on a podcast before, but on a video
log, anything like that.
Huh, have you ever been on apodcast?
Shaw, oh god no absolutely nothis first thing too.
Okay, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
But I hope to hear from duane more often.
Man, he's always got like areally yeah awesome perspective
on things.
You know what I mean?
I just love.
I love talking to him.
I really do.
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
No, I appreciate yeah we'll have to take like one of
your more like uh UhConversation starter topics and
like talk about that topic onthe podcast with you.
That'd be fun.
Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Oh, most certainly we'll do that and I'll play
around and see if I can get thecamera on my laptop.
That would be nice.
Whatever reason it's, it'sfailed on me.
Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
It'd be super cool to have like a little pass
master's thoughts every once ina while, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Yes, yes, we'll, we'll, we can live talk and see
if you can't make that peoplethat actually Comment on your
page to come in live andactually in an engage with us
while we're recording.
Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
That's the next level .
Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
That'd be, fun.
We're gonna be live streamingon facebook and youtube while
we're recording.
Uh, oh, that would you'll getaccess to the pre edited content
, which is always Way more juicythan the edited stuff you see.
Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
So I hope I get to see you on.
Uh, what was it?
July 27th?
Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Yeah, july 27th.
Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
Well, we're working on a little bit of a trip.
It just so happens to be july27th and I believe the
destination is kansas, so maybewe'll get you to have a drink
and a smoking person.
Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Well, I'll tell you first first rounds on me, right.
Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
I'll tell you.
I'll hold you to it.
So, dwayne, you got anopportunity to speak to the
entire world, all masonslistening anywhere in the world.
What would you like to leavethem with on the way out?
Man, I really put you on thespot there, didn't I?
Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Well, you did, and that's okay.
If we can find a way and andI'm gonna, and I'm gonna leave
this just just like I do my, myclosing prayers always, always,
look for a way to shine thelight of masonry into a darkened
world.
But remember, you're that light, it's you.
(01:03:12):
You make the difference in your, not just for yourself, but for
someone else.
Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Hmm.
I love it.
I love it, thank you, thank youNow, sean Cooney.
He's been it to think whatwould you like to leave the
listeners with on our way out?
He wasn't thinking, he's havinga snack maybe a sip a, a little
spirit.
Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
I would like to encourage our brothers To keep
that open mind and that openheart and to just really lean on
love and compassion, because Ithink it's Missing and the world
right now and I think we coulduse more of it.
And I just want to really drownthat into people and have
(01:04:04):
people think about that a littlebit more than they do.
Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Tolerance and love in our hearts.
And when you go out into theworld, remember You're
representing the whole ofFreemasonry.
To these people, you might bethe only mason they're ever
gonna meet and you're the lightin the darkness.
Thank you, brothers, for beingwith us today and I can't wait
to do it all again.
And thank you for listening toon the level podcast.
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